Gretz: Why Zach Thomas Is In Kansas City

[Tribal Warfare]

Why Zach Thomas Is In Kansas City (http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/why-zach-thomas-is-in-kansas-city.html)
April 18, 2009 - Bob Gretz |

From the Truman Sports Complex

Why would a soon to be 36-year old, seven-time Pro Bowl linebacker sign up with a team that’s coming off a 2-14 season and in total rebuild mode?

Zach Thomas had five reasons over and above the biggest reason he plays and that’s his love of the game:

* 1. Scott Pioli
* 2. Toddy Haley
* 3. Matt Cassel
* 4. The Miami Dolphins
* 5. Middle linebacker

They were all factors in his decision to sign with the Chiefs and continue his football career after 12 seasons in Miami and last year in Dallas.

“I knew everything is changed here,” Thomas said Saturday afternoon in a break between mini-camp practices at the Chiefs facility. “I’d like to be here for that change, kind of like Miami did last year, you know, turn it around.

“I’m excited just to come out here and try to make a difference. I’m excited for the opportunity and that’s why I’m here.

The key in him making his move to K.C. was those five factors.

PIOLI/HALEY

Last year, Pioli chased Thomas on the free agent market when the former was working for the Patriots. Thomas ended up signing with Dallas because of his desire to have a chance to play back in his home state o f Texas.

“It all starts at the top,” Thomas said. “When you’ve got the best GM in Scott Pioli and you look at his past.

Thomas didn’t know that much about Haley, but was sold after meeting with the new head coach.

“When I came in here, I was a little skeptical at first about coming to the team,” Thomas said. “When I came in and talked to Todd (Haley), he was straight to the point. He wanted to change the mindset of the players. He really grabbed me right there. I knew once you get the mindset of this team changed, I want to be part of it.

“Nothing is guaranteed from year to year. Look at Dallas where I was last year. We were supposedly guaranteed to win a Super Bowl and we didn’t make the playoffs.

“I have high expectations for this team.”

CASSEL/DOLPHINS

Miami went 1-15 during the 2007 season. Thomas was part of that team, although he was able to play only five games after an auto accident left him with concussion symptoms for the rest of the year. He was there and knew the misery.

From Dallas last year he watched everything change as the Dolphins brought in Bill Parcells and Miami won the AFC East with an 11-5 record.

“You see they brought in change, Parcells coming in there and they set up a good coaching staff,” said Thomas. “Like I said, it starts at the top and it started with the quarterback. They got (Chad) Pennington from the Jets, a guy that does not turn the ball over. You are in every game. It all starts there.

“I was there many years, we always had great defenses, and after (Dan) Marino left, we never had that, we never had a stable quarterback.”

Thomas thinks the Chiefs have that with Cassel.

“It starts with a quarterback, getting Matt Cassel in here,” said Thomas. “All the good teams last year had good quarterbacks going into the playoffs.”

Even though Cassel wasn’t a starter until last year and he didn’t play the Cowboys, Thomas has seen the quarterback up close and personal. In the final game of the 2005 season, Cassel played the final three quarters of the last regular-season game, throwing for two touchdowns and 168 yards against the Dolphins.

MIDDLE LINEBACKER

Haley has not publicly said whether his team will run the 4-3 or 3-4 defense. That’s largely because they will run both and a few other hybrid versions of both schemes.

No matter what they run, Thomas will play middle linebacker. That’s the spot where he made his mark in the league, where he enjoyed seven trips to the Pro Bowl. Last year, he played inside but not as a middle linebacker with the Cowboys. As a free agent, he wanted to get back to the spot he feels most comfortable.

“There were teams interested in me, but not for that position,” Thomas said. “I went out of my comfort zone last year to make it work. They have a great linebacker in Dallas in Bradie James and I played by his side. It just didn’t feel comfortable enough.

“Now after talking to coach (Clancy) Pendergast, the defenses that he’s put in, is what I played in the past. It’s a little mix of everything. That’s the reason I’m here.”

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I really fucking hope we aren't trying to be the Dolphins. When they go 6-10, it's gonna look like a pretty stupid move.

[chiefs1111]

I thought maybe he was in KC because he likes good BBQ...

[RustShack]

So does Zach Thomas think we are drafting a LT?

[RNR]

Because of the money. He is a over the hill injury prone player looking for a check and a chance to beat odds stacked against him. I always get a chuckle when players going to a give a list of bull shit reasons why. It is like when crazy Al has thrown stupid money at big names. They all come in saying this and that, but everyones knows it is the only team offering the money or the chance :rolleyes:

[milkman]

I really ****ing hope we aren't trying to be the Dolphins. When they go 6-10, it's gonna look like a pretty stupid move.

Well, we can try, but outside the division, the schedule is pretty brutal.

This team, best case, might win 6 games.

Looks more like a 4 win season, though.

Dolphins had a relatively easy schedule.

[KChiefs1]

So does Zach Thomas think we are drafting a LT?

I listened to Charlie Casserly talk about the Chiefs & the #3 pick on the NFLN.

He said he usually judges what a team is going to do in the draft by the moves they make right before the draft. He said the Chiefs adding Vrabel & Thomas along with having DJ back in addition to having Hali, who he believes is a perimeter player be it DE in the 4-3 or a OLB in the 3-4 that the Chiefs won't draft a LB that high in a money position therefore he believes that the Chiefs will either trade down or draft who he thinks thinks the Chiefs are looking at....Eugene Monroe.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Well, we can try, but outside the division, the schedule is pretty brutal.

This team, best case, might win 6 games.

Looks more like a 4 win season, though.

Dolphins had a relatively easy schedule.

I was inarticulate. I was talking about how the Dolphins would be 6-10. We'll win 4 or 5 games b/c of the stopgap vets.

[milkman]

I was inarticulate. I was talking about how the Dolphins would be 6-10. We'll win 4 or 5 games b/c of the stopgap vets.

Let's call my post a clarification, because I think most know what your expectations are for this team.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Let's call my post a clarification, because I think most know what your expectations are for this team.

11 wins and the AFCW, BABY!!

[sodcat]

Zach Thomas is still better than what we mostly had last season.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Zach Thomas is still better than what we mostly had last season.

I could care less if he is. The only contribution he can make to this team's future is by ingraining good habits in the younger players. If he can do that, he's served his purpose.

[TheGuardian]

And that's what he will do. Zach is a good guy, hard worker. If Derrick Johnson doesn't improve under Vrabel and Zach, he's a bust.

[chiefs1111]

11 wins and the AFCW, BABY!!

Hootie must have hacked into hamas's account ROFL

[Crush]

I listened to Charlie Casserly talk about the Chiefs & the #3 pick on the NFLN.

He said he usually judges what a team is going to do in the draft by the moves they make right before the draft. He said the Chiefs adding Vrabel & Thomas along with having DJ back in addition to having Hali, who he believes is a perimeter player be it DE in the 4-3 or a OLB in the 3-4 that the Chiefs won't draft a LB that high in a money position therefore he believes that the Chiefs will either trade down or draft who he thinks thinks the Chiefs are looking at....Eugene Monroe.


Once again confirming that Charlie Casserly is fucking retarded.

[TheGuardian]

I would be fine with taking Raji. Eugene Monroe would be a nightmare IMO. Albert is a fine player.

[DaneMcCloud]

Well, we can try, but outside the division, the schedule is pretty brutal.

This team, best case, might win 6 games.

Looks more like a 4 win season, though.

Dolphins had a relatively easy schedule.

The Dolphins only beat two teams with a winning record last year: The Patriots in week 3 and the Jets in week 17.

I don't think there's any shot at them winning 11 games in 2009.

[LaChapelle]

When Zack's career is over they will say he spent his days in Miami. Had a cup of coffee in Dallas and KC. It was probably a cup of texas tea in Dallas. I wonder what it will be in KC? Sanka? McRoast?

[Over-Head]

Say what ya want, Zack is one of the last real "players"
He played for the game, not the up front cash

[whoman69]

The reason that Zach Thomas is in KC is that Pioli and Haley figured out what CP and Herm couldn't. If you don't have a young player that can come in and do the job, go out and find a veteran that you know can. We are not going to get caught this year having to depend on Pat Thomas to do the job.

[shakesthecat]

We are not going to get caught this year having to depend on Pat Thomas to do the job.

Even with Zach at 36 years old, there's no comparison.

[RNR]

Say what ya want, Zack was one of the last real "players"
He played for the game, not the up front cash

FYP

[alanm]

I listened to Charlie Casserly talk about the Chiefs & the #3 pick on the NFLN.

He said he usually judges what a team is going to do in the draft by the moves they make right before the draft. He said the Chiefs adding Vrabel & Thomas along with having DJ back in addition to having Hali, who he believes is a perimeter player be it DE in the 4-3 or a OLB in the 3-4 that the Chiefs won't draft a LB that high in a money position therefore he believes that the Chiefs will either trade down or draft who he thinks thinks the Chiefs are looking at....Eugene Monroe.I'm fine with that.

[stevieray]

It's already been stated why he is here...he showed up in football shape.

[Coach]

I could care less if he is. The only contribution he can make to this team's future is by ingraining good habits in the younger players. If he can do that, he's served his purpose.

He can't be any worse than Pat Thomas anyways.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Joe Montana came in and took us to the AFC Championship along with Marcus Allen, so why can't Thomas and Vrabel do the same.

[milkman]

Joe Montana came in and took us to the AFC Championship along with Marcus Allen, so why can't Thomas and Vrabel do the same.

Just a wild guess here, but I think it might have something to do with the fact that neither Thomas or Vrabel are the greatest QB of all time.

Just a hunch.

:shrug:

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Yes. But back then we had a damn good defense and were just missing a few pieces on offense. Now ,actually,we've got a pretty good offense put together and just missing 8 or 9 pieces on defense.

[milkman]

Let's see.

We have an O-Line that couldn't block your mother on the right side, one good WR, a prrima donna bitch at RB, one of the greatest ever at the most overrated position by Chief fan at TE, and a QB who could be the second coming of Len Dawson, but could as easily be the second coming of Steve Bono.

Yeah, that just screams "SB OFFENSE".

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Let's see.

We have an O-Line that couldn't block your mother on the right side, one good WR, a prrima donna bitch at RB, one of the greatest ever at the most overrated position by Chief fan at TE, and a QB who could be the second coming of Len Dawson, but could as easily be the second coming of Steve Bono.

Yeah, that just screams "SB OFFENSE".

Every point has some truth to it, and I know you are proving a point, but lets look at the offense.

#1) Goff is an upgrade at RG, or maybe center. You can move Niswanger out to Guard. Either way, the Guard position is improved. Albert will have another year, and Waters is still a stud. So, you just help to the right and the offensive line should be fine. McIntosh will have had another year there, and that should also help.

#2) WR's. Bowe is a pretty solid player, Bradley just needs to stay healthy and Engram is a veteran presence we were missing last year and the year before. (Kennison was injured a lot and a non factor)

#3) RB- Prima Donna? Sure. Also talented. Chiefs have Jamal Charles there as well.

#4) TE- Gonzo is like having a top 15 #2 WR out there. He can flex outside, play the slot, and block on the line. TE may not be a 'premium' position, but TG is the best ever (Probably) at it.... and that is a huge factor.

#5) QB- I think stability is the key here. Cassel should win the job, and it shouldn't be the QB Carousel that it has been in recent years. Also, Cassel comes from a winning team and brings that attitude with him.

Again, I understand your point, but the offense is clearly ahead of the defense, and with a decent defense, this offense could easily go to the playoffs.

[the Talking Can]

and with a decent defense, this offense could easily go to the playoffs.


wow

[SenselessChiefsFan]

wow

There are teams that do much more with much less.

[milkman]

There are teams that do much more with much less.

Not against a a schedule as brutal as the Chiefs non division schedule this year.

[the Talking Can]

There are teams that do much more with much less.

who?

[SenselessChiefsFan]

who?

How about the Dophins of last year?

If you have a decent defense, and you don't turn the ball over, you will make the playoffs most years. Not saying you will go anywhere once you get there, but you will get there.

I think the Chiefs have better talent than most fans on here think. They were a 2-14 team, but they were in a ton of games and were very young with VERY little veteran leadership. I don't think it helped that Herm was the coach.

I think the Chiefs have a lot of good pieces in place. It won't surprise me to win the West this year. San Diego is the only team in the division with better talent, and they have Turner as the coach.

Don't get me wrong, the Chiefs are a long way from being a true contender, but in a weak division, being mediocre could be good enough to win the division.

[TheGuardian]

Generally, it comes down to this. If you get good play from your quarterback, and your defense can hold teams to around that 17 points or less mark, you'll be a pretty good team. The West is as weak as it has been in decades. San Diego is overrated, Denver is rebuilding, and the Raiders suck like they generally do. If the Chiefs can get a year from Cassel like he had last year (similar stats I mean) and the defense can become respectable the Chiefs have a shot at winning the division at a mere 9-7. That's just the glass is half full scenario. There is always the other side of it.

[DTLB58]

Joe Montana came in and took us to the AFC Championship along with Marcus Allen, so why can't Thomas and Vrabel do the same.

Because we actually had a Defense then.

I said the day the schedule came out 6-10 and I am one of the most optimistic Chief fans I know.

[the Talking Can]

I think the Chiefs have better talent than most fans on here think.


i think a lot of chiefs fans think this....

[milkman]

How about the Dophins of last year?

If you have a decent defense, and you don't turn the ball over, you will make the playoffs most years. Not saying you will go anywhere once you get there, but you will get there.

I think the Chiefs have better talent than most fans on here think. They were a 2-14 team, but they were in a ton of games and were very young with VERY little veteran leadership. I don't think it helped that Herm was the coach.

I think the Chiefs have a lot of good pieces in place. It won't surprise me to win the West this year. San Diego is the only team in the division with better talent, and they have Turner as the coach.

Don't get me wrong, the Chiefs are a long way from being a true contender, but in a weak division, being mediocre could be good enough to win the division.

The Dolphins won two games against teams with a winning record last year.

The Chiefs schedule isn't nearly as soft as that Dolphins team last year.

[DTLB58]

I could care less if he is. The only contribution he can make to this team's future is by ingraining good habits in the younger players. If he can do that, he's served his purpose.

That's pretty much what Pioli and Haley said in the draft presser last week.

But they also said obviously we think he can still play. Translation: The guy can tackle. Something few on Gun's 2nd term defense rarley did.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

The Dolphins won two games against teams with a winning record last year.

The Chiefs schedule isn't nearly as soft as that Dolphins team last year.

Right now, it is impossible to know exactly how 'soft' the schedule is. Many teams could be better or worse than last year.

But, the AFC West is a lot softer than the AFC East was last year. They had victories over the Jets, Chargers and NE.

They had several wins over decent teams. Clearly, their success was partly due to a softer schedule. But, these are NFL teams and very little separates the winners from the losers on average week to week.

Oh, and you put the Bills in the AFC West last year, and they win the division.

[milkman]

Right now, it is impossible to know exactly how 'soft' the schedule is. Many teams could be better or worse than last year.

But, the AFC West is a lot softer than the AFC East was last year. They had victories over the Jets, Chargers and NE.

They had several wins over decent teams. Clearly, their success was partly due to a softer schedule. But, these are NFL teams and very little separates the winners from the losers on average week to week.

Oh, and you put the Bills in the AFC West last year, and they win the division.

Their non divison schedule last year included the NFC and AFC West divisons, the two weakest divisions in the NFL.

They won against the Patriots in Cassel's second start, and even the most ardent Cassel supporters will tell you he wasn't playing well at all early in the season.

Their wins against the Jets and Chargers came at a time when both were in downward spirals at the time that they faced them.

In a schedule that only includes 6 of 16 games in division, the non division schedule can make or break you.

The Dolphins non divison schedule made them.

The Chiefs non division schedule will break them.

[milkman]

Oh, and while it's not easy to predict how each team will fare during the season, you'd be hard pressed to find an argument that the NFC East is not the strongest divison in the league, and that the Steelers are Ravens two of the best teams in the AFC.

[RNR]

Their non divison schedule last year included the NFC and AFC West divisons, the two weakest divisions in the NFL.

They won against the Patriots in Cassel's second start, and even the most ardent Cassel supporters will tell you he wasn't playing well at all early in the season.

Their wins against the Jets and Chargers came at a time when both were in downward spirals at the time that they faced them.

In a schedule that only includes 6 of 16 games in division, the non division schedule can make or break you.

The Dolphins non divison schedule made them.

The Chiefs non division schedule will break them.

Milk you just are not playing nice. Fans of weak teams forget the blowout losses, forget the close wins that could have been a loss, remember the close games they could have won. By playing this game you can see how said weak team could have been 8-8 or 9-7! now with off season talent added said weak team could go 10-6 and make the playoffs! Once in the playoffs anything can happen! Said fans of said team now sees reason to make bold prediction! It is all about rationalization :)

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Oh, and while it's not easy to predict how each team will fare during the season, you'd be hard pressed to find an argument that the NFC East is not the strongest divison in the league, and that the Steelers are Ravens two of the best teams in the AFC.

The Chiefs can win the division with six wins, if the rest of the division has five. The Chiefs, Raiders, Broncos and Chargers have largely the same non division schedule.

I am not saying the Chiefs would be a top team in the playoffs. I am just saying that given the pathetic division, it is possible that they could win the division.

The NFC East has good teams, not great ones, IMO. They are no better than the AFC East IMO. The Cowboys are all hype, very little substance. The Eagles are always solid, but are they true contenders? No. Especially not without McNabb, and he is often hurt. The Giants could be great. The Redskins are average at best.

If the Chiefs beat two winning teams, they probably win the division. Seriously.

I think the Browns, Jags, Bengals and Bills will all be .500 or less. I think the AFC West opponents will be .500 or less.

So, that is 10 winnable games right there.

Not saying it "Will" happen, but it isn't impossible.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Milk you just are not playing nice. Fans of weak teams forget the blowout losses, forget the close wins that could have been a loss, remember the close games they could have won. By playing this game you can see how said weak team could have been 8-8 or 9-7! now with off season talent added said weak team could go 10-6 and make the playoffs! Once in the playoffs anything can happen! Said fans of said team now sees reason to make bold prediction! It is all about rationalization :)

Actually, I am not predicting 10-6. I don't think that a team will have to be 10-6 to win this division. It would not surprise me to see a 7-9 team win this division.

Also, looking at the Chiefs over the last two years, the biggest problem has been continuity at QB. With the addition of Cassel, that problem should be solved.

If nothing else, it will keep there from beeing a QB carousel.

All I am saying is that this team could win this pathetic division. I am not saying they are good, just have a chance of being better than poorly run teams like the Raiders, Broncos and Chargers.

[milkman]

The Chiefs can win the division with six wins, if the rest of the division has five. The Chiefs, Raiders, Broncos and Chargers have largely the same non division schedule.

I am not saying the Chiefs would be a top team in the playoffs. I am just saying that given the pathetic division, it is possible that they could win the division.

The NFC East has good teams, not great ones, IMO. They are no better than the AFC East IMO. The Cowboys are all hype, very little substance. The Eagles are always solid, but are they true contenders? No. Especially not without McNabb, and he is often hurt. The Giants could be great. The Redskins are average at best.

If the Chiefs beat two winning teams, they probably win the division. Seriously.

I think the Browns, Jags, Bengals and Bills will all be .500 or less. I think the AFC West opponents will be .500 or less.

So, that is 10 winnable games right there.

Not saying it "Will" happen, but it isn't impossible.

The Chargers have far more talent than the Chiefs right now, and Merriman will be back.

If they can overcome their sorryass excuse for coaching and play at a level close to what they are capable of they can win 10 games, especially since some of their toughest games are at home.

Meanwhile, even the games with Bills, Skins, Jax and Browns are very losable for the Chiefs, especially the games against the Jags and Skins since they are road games.

[RNR]

Actually, I am not predicting 10-6. I don't think that a team will have to be 10-6 to win this division. It would not surprise me to see a 7-9 team win this division.

Also, looking at the Chiefs over the last two years, the biggest problem has been continuity at QB. With the addition of Cassel, that problem should be solved.

If nothing else, it will keep there from beeing a QB carousel.

All I am saying is that this team could win this pathetic division. I am not saying they are good, just have a chance of being better than poorly run teams like the Raiders, Broncos and Chargers.

My reply was in jest, that said how can you say the Chiefs are not run poorly? You have a unproven owner a unproven GM a unproven coach a unproven QB a couple aging vets added (I do like Vrabels ability and think he is a solid pickup) They could all pan out but there is noway to know, so really you are seeing what you want to see.

[TheGuardian]

My reply was in jest, that said how can you say the Chiefs are not run poorly? You have a unproven owner a unproven GM a unproven coach a unproven QB a couple aging vets added (I do like Vrabels ability and think he is a solid pickup) They could all pan out but there is noway to know, so really you are seeing what you want to see.

Pioli is a proven personnel man, and that's what he is doing as a GM as well. Second, being unproven would not equal "poor" now would it? Every guy drafted next weekend is "unproven" which means, he hasn't proven anything. Basically, you're trying to say the Chiefs are unproven and poor at the same time. Those two terms contradict each other.

[Nzoner]

Also, looking at the Chiefs over the last two years, the biggest problem has been continuity at QB. With the addition of Cassel, that problem should be solved.



Right now I'm just praying that karma doesn't intervene and the Ravens(week 1) leave our new qb with a few bumps and bruises and not a season ending injury.

[RNR]

Pioli is a proven personnel man, and that's what he is doing as a GM as well. Second, being unproven would not equal "poor" now would it? Every guy drafted next weekend is "unproven" which means, he hasn't proven anything. Basically, you're trying to say the Chiefs are unproven and poor at the same time. Those two terms contradict each other.

What I am saying is nobody can say if they are poorly run or not. They are a 2-14 team that made changes. Pioli is just like Cassel both hang their hat on what they did with the Patriots. Cassel put up "good" numbers behind the "greatest" offense of alltime. Pioli had headcase talent willing to get their act together for the chance to play with a great team, and solid vets willing to play for less to play for the Patriots. He was also hand fed by Belicheat. They both have the chance to prove their ablity and they will have to do it with much less.

[milkman]

I wouldn't call the Chargers "poorly run".

AJ Smith has done an outstanding job of assembling talent there.

He did, however, make one major mistake when he hired Norv Turner.

[TheGuardian]

What I am saying is nobody can say if they are poorly run or not. They are a 2-14 team that made changes. Pioli is just like Cassel both hang their hat on what they did with the Patriots. Cassel put up "good" numbers behind the "greatest" offense of alltime. Pioli had headcase talent willing to get their act together for the chance to play with a great team, and solid vets willing to play for less to play for the Patriots. He was also hand fed by Belicheat. They both have the chance to prove their ablity and they will have to do it with much less.

It wasn't the same offense actually.

Second, hand fed by Belicheck? Wow. That's incredibly ignorant. To say the very least.

[RNR]

It wasn't the same offense actually.

Second, hand fed by Belicheck? Wow. That's incredibly ignorant. To say the very least.

Really? how silly of me to think Belicheat had any say so on what players were signed LMAO and you are right it was not the same offense because a guy who has not started going back to high school was running it.

[mylittlepony]

I wouldn't call the Chargers "poorly run".

AJ Smith has done an outstanding job of assembling talent there.

He did, however, make one major mistake when he hired Norv Turner.

Kiel 2006 Drugs
Foley 2006 DUI
Currey 2006 Spousal abuse
Phillips 2006 fighting the police
Gordon 2006 DUI
Waters 2007 assault
Tribble 2008 assault with a deadly weapon
Williams 2009 DUI
Jackson 2009 DUI

On top of that Castillo and Merryman was caught with prohibited substances.

If he was recruiting for a street gang I would be willing to agree. He should have hired Pablo Escobar to coach them.

[Just Passin' By]

Kiel 2006 Drugs
Foley 2006 DUI
Currey 2006 Spousal abuse
Phillips 2006 fighting the police
Gordon 2006 DUI
Waters 2007 assault
Tribble 2008 assault with a deadly weapon
Williams 2009 DUI
Jackson 2009 DUI

On top of that Castillo and Merryman was caught with prohibited substances.

If he was recruiting for a street gang I would be willing to agree. He should have hired Pablo Escobar to coach them.

Good call, because every player on every other team spends 18 hours a day singing for the local church choir.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

The Chargers have far more talent than the Chiefs right now, and Merriman will be back.

If they can overcome their sorryass excuse for coaching and play at a level close to what they are capable of they can win 10 games, especially since some of their toughest games are at home.

Meanwhile, even the games with Bills, Skins, Jax and Browns are very losable for the Chiefs, especially the games against the Jags and Skins since they are road games.

As far as the Chargers are concerned, I am not sold on their talent. Especially if Gates and LT are hurt as they have been lately.

I do think they are 'better', but I think Norv Turner is a poor coach. So, given that, I don't think they will ever play to their 'potential' under him.

I think the Chiefs are the best run team in the division right now. And, I think that gives the Chiefs a legit shot in a poor division.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

I wouldn't call the Chargers "poorly run".

AJ Smith has done an outstanding job of assembling talent there.

He did, however, make one major mistake when he hired Norv Turner.

He has also made poor decisions with the handling of the LT situation. He is the next CP. Seriously. A guy that made some good moves early, let his ego get the best of him and then became a problem.

[shaneo69]

"Why Zach Thomas Is In Kansas City"

Because Pioli couldn't find a neurologist to clear Ted Johnson?

[milkman]

He has also made poor decisions with the handling of the LT situation. He is the next CP. Seriously. A guy that made some good moves early, let his ego get the best of him and then became a problem.

Yeah, I can see the comparison to Carl there, but the question is this.

Will he continue to make that same kind of mistake, or will he learn from it?

But to paint them as a poorly run franchise is painting with a broad brush.

[Crush]

I think it is safe to say that the Chargers were a poorly run organization from 1996 until Butler/A.J. Smith got there. Although A.J. Smith screams "Carl II," I think he will be able to avoid some of the mistakes that Carl made.

[1ChiefsDan]

Not against a a schedule as brutal as the Chiefs non division schedule this year.hmmmm, guess the other teams in our division don't play a similar schedule?

[htismaqe]

Yeah, I can see the comparison to Carl there, but the question is this.

Will he continue to make that same kind of mistake, or will he learn from it?

But to paint them as a poorly run franchise is painting with a broad brush.

I think AJ Smith has done a great job of acquiring top-tier talent.

At the expense of building a TEAM.

The Chargers are loaded, there's no doubting it. But when I watch them play, I don't see "champions".

[LaChapelle]

The Chargers would have little problem replacing Turner at anytime. Shanahan, Cowher or others could take that team to a division win in the AFC West. With ease IMO.

[dj56dt58]

Not against a a schedule as brutal as the Chiefs non division schedule this year.

good teams don't care about their schedule. A good offense will be a good offense. Did KCs offense suck under Vermiel when they played the Ravens or another top defense? No, they promptly put 30 on their ass

Does Pitts D care when they play a top offense? No, they hold them to 14 pts or less.

Fuck the schedule. A good team will be a good team

[htismaqe]

good teams don't care about their schedule. A good offense will be a good offense. Did KCs offense suck under Vermiel when they played the Ravens or another top defense? No, they promptly put 30 on their ass

Does Pitts D care when they play a top offense? No, they hold them to 14 pts or less.

**** the schedule. A good team will be a good team

Absolutely agree.

This is precisely why I think the Chiefs won't hesitate to trade with the Broncos if need be. Pioli doesn't care what the Broncos do, if he's helping the Chiefs get better what the Broncos do after the trade is immaterial.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

My reply was in jest, that said how can you say the Chiefs are not run poorly? You have a unproven owner a unproven GM a unproven coach a unproven QB a couple aging vets added (I do like Vrabels ability and think he is a solid pickup) They could all pan out but there is noway to know, so really you are seeing what you want to see.

Cassel is unproven. I am not saying he will carry the team to 10 wins. But, how often do you see an experienced QB start most of the season and the team not at least be competetive? Seriously. Just the fact that Cassel seems to be a legit starter AND able to stay healthy..... I see that as an improvement. Even if he is no better than mediocre, he will be playing every week and that helps.

Pioli isn't unproven and you will notice the Chiefs have had a good offseason, even if it has been understated.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Yeah, I can see the comparison to Carl there, but the question is this.

Will he continue to make that same kind of mistake, or will he learn from it?

But to paint them as a poorly run franchise is painting with a broad brush.

If you hire Norv Turner to be your head coach, you deserve to be painted with that brush. Seriously.

[htismaqe]

Cassel is unproven. I am not saying he will carry the team to 10 wins. But, how often do you see an experienced QB start most of the season and the team not at least be competetive? Seriously. Just the fact that Cassel seems to be a legit starter AND able to stay healthy..... I see that as an improvement. Even if he is no better than mediocre, he will be playing every week and that helps.

Pioli isn't unproven and you will notice the Chiefs have had a good offseason, even if it has been understated.

Understated here maybe. It certainly hasn't on the NFL Network. Like I said in another thread, Cassel and Haley at the 1st mini-camp was the lead story yesterday on "NFL Network Now" in between shows...

[KcFanInGA]

And that's what he will do. Zach is a good guy, hard worker. If Derrick Johnson doesn't improve under Vrabel and Zach, he's a bust.

Agreed. I think if we are going to see any improvement in Derrick's game, it will either be this year or it isn't going to happen. You can't put a guy in a more ideal situation to show what he's made of. That's the main reason I'm so excited about this season, I think we will get to see who we've really got out there.

[bigbucks24]

Every point has some truth to it, and I know you are proving a point, but lets look at the offense.

#1) Goff is an upgrade at RG, or maybe center. You can move Niswanger out to Guard. Either way, the Guard position is improved. Albert will have another year, and Waters is still a stud. So, you just help to the right and the offensive line should be fine. McIntosh will have had another year there, and that should also help.

#2) WR's. Bowe is a pretty solid player, Bradley just needs to stay healthy and Engram is a veteran presence we were missing last year and the year before. (Kennison was injured a lot and a non factor)

#3) RB- Prima Donna? Sure. Also talented. Chiefs have Jamal Charles there as well.

#4) TE- Gonzo is like having a top 15 #2 WR out there. He can flex outside, play the slot, and block on the line. TE may not be a 'premium' position, but TG is the best ever (Probably) at it.... and that is a huge factor.

#5) QB- I think stability is the key here. Cassel should win the job, and it shouldn't be the QB Carousel that it has been in recent years. Also, Cassel comes from a winning team and brings that attitude with him.

Again, I understand your point, but the offense is clearly ahead of the defense, and with a decent defense, this offense could easily go to the playoffs.


That part made me laugh. McIntosh has been in the league 10 years. If you think he is sudenly going to improve this year, I think you are going to be disappointed.

I also find it funny that most fans believe that their players are going to improve each year or continue to be stud's, while the other team's players are getting older and losing a step. Guess that is why then call us fans.

[chiefzilla1501]

The Chargers would have little problem replacing Turner at anytime. Shanahan, Cowher or others could take that team to a division win in the AFC West. With ease IMO.

That's true. i think lots of coaches could do the same--Norv is not that good. The good news is, the way Marty was pushed out, I am willing to bet that coaches like Shanahan or Cowher would never coach for a guy like AJ Smith.

Personally, I think AJ Smith gets way too much credit for a team that Marty built. Much like CP got too much credit for a team Marty built. AJ Smith's post-Marty draft history hasn't been nearly as impressive.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

That part made me laugh. McIntosh has been in the league 10 years. If you think he is sudenly going to improve this year, I think you are going to be disappointed.

I also find it funny that most fans believe that their players are going to improve each year or continue to be stud's, while the other team's players are getting older and losing a step. Guess that is why then call us fans.

Actually, McIntosh has played on the left side nearly his entire career. He struggled with the switch. He played RT better as the season progressed.

I don't ever say that offensive linemen will lose a step. They last a lot longer than most players at other positions. Their speed isn't the most important thing, their techinique, understanding, footwork and leverage are.

I am not saying he will be a 'great' player. Everything is relative. Either way, you slide protection that way, and I think you can protect the QB fine.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

That's true. i think lots of coaches could do the same--Norv is not that good. The good news is, the way Marty was pushed out, I am willing to bet that coaches like Shanahan or Cowher would never coach for a guy like AJ Smith.

Personally, I think AJ Smith gets way too much credit for a team that Marty built. Much like CP got too much credit for a team Marty built. AJ Smith's post-Marty draft history hasn't been nearly as impressive.

Well, it is always a combination of drafting and developing. You can have the best player ever, but if he isn't put in a position to succeed, he won't.

[chiefzilla1501]

Actually, I am not predicting 10-6. I don't think that a team will have to be 10-6 to win this division. It would not surprise me to see a 7-9 team win this division.

Also, looking at the Chiefs over the last two years, the biggest problem has been continuity at QB. With the addition of Cassel, that problem should be solved.

If nothing else, it will keep there from beeing a QB carousel.

All I am saying is that this team could win this pathetic division. I am not saying they are good, just have a chance of being better than poorly run teams like the Raiders, Broncos and Chargers.

I appreciate your optimism, but it's over-optimism.

The Raiders and Broncos, I think, are going to struggle, but the Chargers will likely be a 9-7 team that squeezes into the playoffs. And there is no way the Chiefs are ready to be competitive this season.

The Chiefs had a lot more problems than the QB position. You saw so yourself--we had to design a limited offense to compensate for our poor excuse for an offensive line. The entire offensive line from Center on to RT are below average. Couple that with a quarterback learning a new offense and a whole offense learning a new offense (usually takes at least a half year for players to catch on).

The offense will be mediocre at best. The defense is a major reformation project. I expect the Chiefs to be much more competitive this year, but let's not kid ourselves--this is a team that is still a long way from where they need to be. The Chargers are a team that are already there--granted, I do agree that their window is closing fast.

[chiefzilla1501]

Actually, McIntosh has played on the left side nearly his entire career. He struggled with the switch. He played RT better as the season progressed.

I don't ever say that offensive linemen will lose a step. They last a lot longer than most players at other positions. Their speed isn't the most important thing, their techinique, understanding, footwork and leverage are.

I am not saying he will be a 'great' player. Everything is relative. Either way, you slide protection that way, and I think you can protect the QB fine.


McIntosh improved because the Chiefs began to run a limited offense that was designed to give the o-line extra time to protect. The spread offense is intended to be an o-lineman's best friend. McIntosh is not meant to be a right tackle--he doesn't have the strength to take on bigger defensive ends than he's used to and his skill set is starting to decline.

I like the spread set, but only as an option to consider, not as the entire offensive set. You put him in a regular base offense, and he will be a massive liability as he was earlier in the year. And the Chiefs won't succeed as long as they can't run out of the base on at least a fraction of the snaps.

[bigbucks24]

Actually, McIntosh has played on the left side nearly his entire career. He struggled with the switch. He played RT better as the season progressed.

I don't ever say that offensive linemen will lose a step. They last a lot longer than most players at other positions. Their speed isn't the most important thing, their techinique, understanding, footwork and leverage are.

I am not saying he will be a 'great' player. Everything is relative. Either way, you slide protection that way, and I think you can protect the QB fine.

I still believe you will be disappointed In Damion's play. I don't think he will be a good player, much less great. And when you have to start sliding protection his way, or keeping a TE to help block (taking the greatest TE in the history of football out of the offense) or a RB (that's an oxymoron, isn't it? LJ being kept in to block?) starts to limit what you can do on offense. I saw this quite a bit on the Dolphins when their line was weak. They had to run 2 TE's or keep Brown in to block. They were very limited. I believe that was one of the brainchilds of the wildcat. Time will tell.

[milkman]

good teams don't care about their schedule. A good offense will be a good offense. Did KCs offense suck under Vermiel when they played the Ravens or another top defense? No, they promptly put 30 on their ass

Does Pitts D care when they play a top offense? No, they hold them to 14 pts or less.

**** the schedule. A good team will be a good team

The Chiefs are a good team?

[RedThat]

The Chiefs are a good team?

Yes they will be

[RedThat]

I think AJ Smith has done a great job of acquiring top-tier talent.

At the expense of building a TEAM.

The Chargers are loaded, there's no doubting it. But when I watch them play, I don't see "champions".

Something missing there....they're talented, but it's like they're just missing an element? A key ingredient as to whats preventing them to take that next step forward to become champions.