NFL personnel executives: QB Class not great

[dirk digler]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/43199637.html


Green Bay - The consensus three top quarterbacks in the National Football League draft will have to surmount their backgrounds in order to make it big.

So will Nate Davis, the rifle-armed prospect from Ball State.
It's a roll of the dice draft when it comes to quarterbacks. For the first time since 1990 it's an all-underclassmen board atop the position, a scenario that doesn't bode well for the half dozen clubs trying to find one.

"It is a risky business," said Eric DeCosta, director of player personnel for the Baltimore Ravens. "There's a statistic out there that a key indicator of (quarterbacks') success in the NFL is career starts. You want someone with experience."

Instead, teams have been studying a pair of third-year juniors, Georgia's Matthew Stafford and Kansas State's Josh Freeman, and Southern California's Mark Sanchez, another junior who spent a fourth season redshirting.

Since the NFL granted admission en masse to underclassmen in 1990, 43 quarterbacks have been selected in the first round. Sixteen of the 43, or 37.2%, have been underclassmen.

Of the 16, eight could be categorized as busts: Andre Ware (1990), Todd Marinovich ('91), Tommy Maddox ('92), Heath Shuler ('94), Ryan Leaf ('98), Tim Couch ('99), Rex Grossman ('03) and Alex Smith ('05).

The most successful of the 16 have been Ben Roethlisberger ('04), Drew Bledsoe ('93) and Michael Vick ('01), whose career was derailed by a 23-month prison term for dog-fighting conspiracy.

In January, USC coach Pete Carroll cited a "62% failure rate for underclassmen quarterbacks" after Sanchez bolted with 16 starts under his belt.

"I'm a huge résumé guy," said A.J. Smith, the San Diego Chargers' general manager. "He is extremely talented and I do think he will be terrific, but I don't have the (guts) if I was in that position to strike with him high. I've got to be 51 games, four bowl games like Philip Rivers.

"Unfortunately, somebody is going to have to take these guys. Because if you need one, you've got to make it happen."

Last year, the Atlanta Falcons hit the first-year jackpot with Matt Ryan at No. 3 just as the Ravens found a rookie starter in Joe Flacco at No. 18. Both spent five years in college, with 32 starts for Ryan and 26 for Flacco.

"With all due humbleness, it's very important to step back and take the whole picture into consideration," Falcons general manager Thomas Dimitroff said. "The maturity level is a very big thing in my mind, especially for that position."

A Journal Sentinel poll of 18 personnel men suggested that the pecking order is established. Each was asked to list his favorites 1-2-3, with a first-place vote worth three points and so forth.

Stafford had 11 first-place votes and 46 points, followed by Sanchez with five and 39 and Freeman with two and 21. Rhett Bomar and Pat White each had a third-place vote.

"It's not the great year," Buffalo vice president Tom Modrak said. "You can find flies on all these guys. It gets to be a dilemma because there's certainly a year or two of training. But if the quarterback doesn't come in by mid-October you're in trouble with everyone."

Stafford, whose arm strength has been compared to that of John Elway and Brett Favre, is looking to become the first quarterback from Georgia to do much in the NFL since Fran Tarkenton left Athens almost 50 years ago.

Sanchez' 16 starts are about on a par with Ware, but at least Ware threw 1,074 passes at the University of Houston from 1987-'89 before flopping as the No. 7 pick in Detroit. Sanchez attempted 487.

And, Freeman went a mere 14-18 as an erratic 32-game starter in the Big 12.

"Sanchez is probably the riskiest," St. Louis vice president Tony Softli said. "The other guys have been starting since they were freshmen so they got three years in. He has 16 games. That's really scary."

The 18 scouts also identify the next-best bet to one day become a starter. Bomar led with five votes, followed by Stephen McGee with 2½; Curtis Painter, Davis and White, each with 2; John Parker Wilson, 1½, and Chase Daniel, 1. One scout withheld his vote, saying no candidate deserved it.

Not only must Davis overcome his status as a third-year junior but also widespread concern about his ability to handle an NFL playbook. Davis has acknowledged that he is learning disabled, and so it was not a shock when he scored merely 11 on the 50-question Wonderlic intelligence test.

Although his score isn't that far off from the NFL average of about 19.5, it is extremely low for a quarterback. In the last 15 years, the only starting quarterbacks with scores of 15 or below have been Vince Young (15), Donovan McNabb (12), Charlie Batch (15) and Kordell Stewart (15). Seattle backup Seneca Wallace had a 10.

"(Davis) has a Freeman arm and he was more accurate than Freeman," said Shemy Schembechler, a scout for the Washington Redskins. "I mean, he can throw it. But it will be a different learning process with him that some offensive coordinator is going to have to adjust to if he's going to play for you."

[Pioli Zombie]

Don't you know that this is a better qb class than 1983?????
Posted via Mobile Device

[beach tribe]

Am I the only person who thinks Sanchez is going to bust? I don't know if it's entirely because of his starts either. That said, I would not be pissed if we picked him. #1 because I think if he was eased into the lineup about halfway through his second season, he would be fine, but I don't think that's gonna happen. #2 because I've een wrong about these things before.I don't think he's gonna be a Ryan Leaf kind of bust. Just an unspectacular non franchise career.

[chiefs1111]

If they think this years class is bad,just wait till next year rolls around,that class of qb's is worse.....

[Reerun_KC]

If they think this years class is bad,just wait till next year rolls around,that class of qb's is worse.....

This...

At least this year there are QB's worthy of the 1st round...

Next year is a travesty for the QB position....

[Pioli Zombie]

Travesty? Gay word.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Rigodan]

Travesty? Gay word.
Posted via Mobile Device

You are a travesty

[beach tribe]

This...

At least this year there are QB's worthy of the 1st round...

Next year is a travesty for the QB position....

We say that every year, and every year someone emerges. I would bet that there is a highly regarded QB taken top 15 in the 1st next season.

[BryanBusby]

If they think this years class is bad,just wait till next year rolls around,that class of qb's is worse.....

Awfully early to be declaring how the draft is going to look a year from now. I remember people pimping up this years QB class right after the draft last season expecting Painter and Harper to emerge as top prospects.

[Reerun_KC]

We say that every year, and every year someone emerges. I would bet that there is a highly regarded QB taken top 15 in the 1st next season.

I can see where someone would over hype a Big 12 Spread Monkey and cause someone to reach for him...

Other than that, I really wouldnt be surprised to see a QB not taken in the first round next year... But then again, Kiper or Maycock will suck someone off and message boards will go full retard like people have over Sanchez, Stafford and Jesus "Curry" Christ here...

Wash, Rinse and Repeat.

But unless there is someone out there that just really steps up, next years draft wont produce a 1st round QB.

[BryanBusby]

I can see where someone would over hype a Big 12 Spread Monkey and cause someone to reach for him...

Other than that, I really wouldnt be surprised to see a QB not taken in the first round next year... But then again, Kiper or Maycock will suck someone off and message boards will go full retard like people have over Sanchez, Stafford and Jesus "Curry" Christ here...

Wash, Rinse and Repeat.

But unless there is someone out there that just really steps up, next years draft wont produce a 1st round QB.

Unless something seriously goes wrong, I expect Sam Bradford to declare next year and will be a clear cut 1st rounder.

[Reerun_KC]

Unless something seriously goes wrong, I expect Sam Bradford to declare next year and will be a clear cut 1st rounder.

Clear Cut? Seriously?

[BryanBusby]

Clear Cut? Seriously?
Yeah, seriously. He would of gone in the first if he'd of came out this year. I'm not really high on Bradford, but this league is starving for quality starting QB's. Another year at OU will only improve his stock even more, unless he shits the bed.

[Mecca]

We say that every year, and every year someone emerges. I would bet that there is a highly regarded QB taken top 15 in the 1st next season.

Yea his name will be Sam Bradford and well I'm not impressed.

[beach tribe]

Yea his name will be Sam Bradford and well I'm not impressed.
Me neither, but he'll be up there, and i would bet someone else emerges as well. The way Sanchez did this season.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Unless something seriously goes wrong, I expect Sam Bradford to declare next year and will be a clear cut 1st rounder.

Yeah, seriously. He would of gone in the first if he'd of came out this year. I'm not really high on Bradford, but this league is starving for quality starting QB's. Another year at OU will only improve his stock even more, unless he shits the bed.

This league will be famished with no UN aid next year for quality starting QB's.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Yea his name will be Sam Bradford and well I'm not impressed.

The good news as it relates to the Chiefs, is that we get to completely bypass that aspect of talking about our draft next year.

You gotta' look for the good everywhere.:thumb:

[BryanBusby]

This league will be famished with no UN aid next year for quality starting QB's.

Time to start the Draft picks for QB's campaign.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Time to start the Draft picks for QB's campaign.

Nope. After the 25th, "The Deal Is Done" for KC for at LEAST one more year, so NO Tebow, Bradford, or McCoy talk need ever pass ones lips as it relates to the Chiefs, and thank God for it.

[BryanBusby]

Nope. After the 25th, "The Deal Is Done" for KC for at LEAST one more year, so NO Tebow, Bradford, or McCoy talk need ever pass ones lips as it relates to the Chiefs, and thank God for it.

You know someone is going to be jock-riding Tebow hard on the board next year. He is the Jesus that Jesus Curry wishes he was.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

You know someone is going to be jock-riding Tebow hard on the board next year. He is the Jesus that Jesus Curry wishes he was.

They can "jock ride him" all the way to anywhere but KC, and that's all that matters.

[salame]

I think Stafford is pretty established even for an underclassmen. He has a pretty decent amount of experience under his belt and seems to have pretty solid skills.

Come on can he really be worse than Daunte Culpepper? Detroit should sign him now.

[melbar]

This "Jesus Curry" talk is ridiculous. Most have been drawn into defending his position in comparison to a weak upper class and available positions we dont need high. Nobody has annointed him as some sort of superman, just worthy in comparison. Who else is there to argue for? Anyone?....Cause since we got our QB I havent seen that anyone feels strongly enough about anyone to even start a thread to start the argument. Only people arguing against Curry.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

This "Jesus Curry" talk is ridiculous. Most have been drawn into defending his position in comparison to a weak upper class and available positions we dont need high. Nobody has annointed him as some sort of superman, just worthy in comparison. Who else is there to argue for? Anyone?....Cause since we got our QB I havent seen that anyone feels strongly enough about anyone to even start a thread to start the argument. Only people arguing against Curry.

Many have anointed him as being able to do things he can't. When you explain that paying QB bank for a rookie ILB with no history of a pass-rush( which is what we need bigger than shit on defense), the Curry Faithful proclaim that he really can rush "if we just believe". That he is somehow so athletically chops-laden, we can hand him a playbook with any role, and he'll ace it.
No rookie ILB is worth the bank this kid will claim.

[Jethopper]

I can see where someone would over hype a Big 12 Spread Monkey and cause someone to reach for him...

Other than that, I really wouldnt be surprised to see a QB not taken in the first round next year... But then again, Kiper or Maycock will suck someone off and message boards will go full retard like people have over Sanchez, Stafford and Jesus "Curry" Christ here...

Wash, Rinse and Repeat.

But unless there is someone out there that just really steps up, next years draft wont produce a 1st round QB.

Wow guys. Seriously??? Seriously!?!??! Sam Bradford would have been the first QB taken if he would have came out this year. People were already talking about before he choose to stay in college. You guys cannot be this ignorant.

[CoMoChief]

This...

At least this year there are QB's worthy of the 1st round...

Next year is a travesty for the QB position....

Bradford is the best QB in this years class.

[Pioli Zombie]

I want to be baptised by Mark Sanchez, the God who went from decent college qb to can't miss NFL hall of famer through prayer and fasting by Chiefs planet posters.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

No, he wouldn't have been, if you haven't noticed the NFL frowns on guys from the spread...

He isn't even as naturally physically gifted as Stafford or Sanchez. He in no way would have been taken ahead of Stafford and he'd have had a real issue getting ahead of Sanchez.

CoMo is just pretty typical of a casual fan. Looking at stats and nothing else guy playing in the Big 12 all that, probably thinks Colt McCoy is a great prospect too.

[dirk digler]

I do find it interesting that an actual NFL GM stated what me and few others on here say about Sanchez and that his inexperience is a huge red flag.

[Mecca]

I do find it interesting that an actual NFL GM stated what me and few others on here say about Sanchez and that his inexperience is a huge red flag.

Um everyone has said that, it's a pretty token thing to say at this point.

So I don't think it's some revelation that someone might be concerned he started 16 games.

[Pioli Zombie]

But in those 16 the healing that was done and the souls that were Saved....never has a quarterback done the things on a football field that He did I suppose if we listed them all here there wouldn't be enough books in the world that could hold them.
Posted via Mobile Device

[dirk digler]

Um everyone has said that, it's a pretty token thing to say at this point.

So I don't think it's some revelation that someone might be concerned he started 16 games.

See that is BS because Sanchez supporters pretty much said it was a non-issue.

But apparently it is the main issue.

[Mecca]

See that is BS because Sanchez supporters pretty much said it was a non-issue.

But apparently it is the main issue.

Not everyone is going to judge players the same way......

Generally speaking 16 starts would be considered a flag because it means he'd be inexperienced, sloppy etc. When you sit down and watch Sanchez he does not look like a 1 year starter.

If anyone and I mean anyone watched Joe Flacco and knew about him and considered him safer or more polished than Sanchez they're high or arguing after the fact. Going into the draft last year Flacco was the epitome of a QB that should be red flagged, now I get to read articles acting like he was an easy pick.

Phillip Rivers started 51 games, on the day of the draft I didn't feel he was a better prospect than the early declare Ben Roethlisberger.

[King_Chief_Fan]

You know someone is going to be jock-riding Tebow hard on the board next year. He is the Jesus that Jesus Curry wishes he was.
A copy cat 2008 performance from Cassel in 2009 will hush all the non sense QB talk.

[Mecca]

A copy cat 2008 performance from Cassel in 2009 will hush all the non sense QB talk.

People have a right to be concerned, he himself is a 1 year starter and he's not 22 or 23...if we are developing a 27 year old QB and he comes out looking like a player that needs time it's not going to be well received.

[wild1]

it's striking that of all those underclass QBs taken in the first round, there are really only two hits out of 16.

[Mecca]

it's striking that of all those underclass QBs taken in the first round, there are really only two hits out of 16.

Alot of those guys were going to fail underclassman or not.....I don't think anyone thought Urban Meyer spread monkey Alex Smith was gonna make it.

I'm honestly sitting here wondering which one of them legit just failed without having some giant knock.

[philfree]

it's striking that of all those underclass QBs taken in the first round, there are really only two hits out of 16.

This.

PhilFree:arrow:

[Mecca]

Go through that list and tell me which one of them would have made it had he gone back another year....over half that list is guys from systems that don't translate to the next level.

[Pioli Zombie]

Its so obvious that Mark Sanchez, had he taken over the Patriots last year, would have gone 12-4 or maybe 13-3. He so good.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

Its so obvious that Mark Sanchez, had he taken over the Patriots last year, would have gone 12-4 or maybe 13-3. He so good.
Posted via Mobile Device

Add something of substance.....posts like this aren't even funny at this point.

[Pioli Zombie]

Add something of substance.....posts like this aren't even funny at this point.

Why are they not of substance? Because they don't agree with you? If I was saying the same thing about Curry you'd think it hilarious. Its pointing out the insanity of all the Sanchez hype.
Posted via Mobile Device

[King_Chief_Fan]

People have a right to be concerned, he himself is a 1 year starter and he's not 22 or 23...if we are developing a 27 year old QB and he comes out looking like a player that needs time it's not going to be well received.

Right you are. if...IF he is still that big of a conern I think we can still work something out with Denver (they covet the Chiefs QB) as his mentor McDufus can continue to help make him successful.:)
I am O.K. if we wait it out and see what we have. Haley's real job will be to show that he and Pioli did not make a mistake. I think Pioli sees this as a very well calculated risk.

[Mecca]

No not really the Curry stuff has gotten stupid too, the only difference is half the forum will defend Curry where when you do this Sanchez thing you are just trying to aggravate like 5 people.

The whole idea that someone will fail just because they are an underclassman is heavily ludicrous though. There are severe mitigating factors with every QB that busted ones that heavily outweigh the underclassman label. If it just came down to that then why do a whole crapload of senior QB's bust?

[rad]

Go through that list and tell me which one of them would have made it had he gone back another year....over half that list is guys from systems that don't translate to the next level.

All of them. That's the same thing as saying none of them, or 4 of them, or 9 of them....because nobody knows.

[Mecca]

Right you are. if...IF he is still that big of a conern I think we can still work something out with Denver (they covet the Chiefs QB) as his mentor McDufus can continue to help make him successful.:)
I am O.K. if we wait it out and see what we have. Haley's real job will be to show that he and Pioli did not make a mistake. I think Pioli sees this as a very well calculated risk.

That move is probably going to define the Chiefs, it will either be brilliant or be a total blunder.

[Mecca]

All of them. That's the same thing as saying none of them, or 4 of them, or 9 of them....because nobody knows.

Guys like Andre Ware, Rex Grossman, Alex Smith and Tim Couch came from a system that has proven to produce guys who can't play in the NFL.

That system is more to blame than them declaring early.

[rad]

Guys like Andre Ware, Rex Grossman, Alex Smith and Tim Couch came from a system that has proven to produce guys who can't play in the NFL.

That system is more to blame than them declaring early.

Didn't Brees come from a spread? I'm curious as to how many successful QB's came from the spread....

[philfree]

People have a right to be concerned, he himself is a 1 year starter and he's not 22 or 23...if we are developing a 27 year old QB and he comes out looking like a player that needs time it's not going to be well received.

Cassel answered alot of questions last year. He came off the bench and played well for a whole season. What's impressive is that for taking so many sacks, getting hit like that he never wilted from the pressure. While he was being abused he did nothing but improve as the season wore on. He did it in the NFL too and that's a big difference from what Sanchez did at USC.

PhilFree:arrow:

[Mecca]

Didn't Brees come from a spread? I'm curious as to how many successful QB's came from the spread....

There's your 1 exception...Roethlisberger came from a form of it so I guess that makes 2. Looking back on it Roethlisberger is the ultimate exception to the rule..underclassman, non NFL friendly scheme...I guess he's the example that pure talent can win out.

When judging things you should judge the player first then throw in the mitigating factors. There will always be a few exceptions that can break the rules. But for the most part it's probably not going to happen...

Are people going to go apeshit on Bradford next year? He doesn't have great natural talent, he'll still be an underclassman oh and he's in the spread...that could get ugly.

[Mecca]

Cassel answered alot of questions last year. He came off the bench and played well for a whole season. Waht's impressive is that for taking so many sacks, getting hit like that he never wilted from the pressure. While he was being abused he did nothing but improve as the season wore on. He did it in the NFL too and that's a big difference from what Sanchez did at USC.

PhilFree:arrow:

He got sacked because he held onto the ball to long...and he was playing on what some would argue is the most talented offense in the game.

[philfree]

He got sacked because he held onto the ball to long...and he was playing on what some would argue is the most talented offense in the game.

So a guy rides the bench for 7 years and you expect him not to hold the ball a little to long when he finally gets his chance? And the thing is I think his number of sacks went down as the season wore on. He improved on the field when the games really counted.

PhilFree:arrow:

[Pioli Zombie]

He got sacked because he held onto the ball to long...and he was playing on what some would argue is the most talented offense in the game.

The old "Anybody could have done what Cassel did" line.
Lame.
Anybody didn't.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

So a guy rides the bench for 7 years and you expect him not to hold the ball a little to long when he finally gets his chance? And the thing is I think his number of sacks went down as the season wore on. He improved on the field when the games really counted.

PhilFree:arrow:

His sacks went down when they put him in the Shotgun all the time...

All I'm saying is everyone is expecting him to hit the ground running including me. If i wanted to "give him time" or wait for him to develop I'll take a guy who's 22.

[philfree]

His sacks went down when they put him in the Shotgun all the time...

All I'm saying is everyone is expecting him to hit the ground running including me. If i wanted to "give him time" or wait for him to develop I'll take a guy who's 22.

I'm sure he'll have his bad moments but he's still ahead of Sanchez. And he should be.

PhilFree:arrow:

[dirk digler]

Not everyone is going to judge players the same way......

Generally speaking 16 starts would be considered a flag because it means he'd be inexperienced, sloppy etc. When you sit down and watch Sanchez he does not look like a 1 year starter.

If anyone and I mean anyone watched Joe Flacco and knew about him and considered him safer or more polished than Sanchez they're high or arguing after the fact. Going into the draft last year Flacco was the epitome of a QB that should be red flagged, now I get to read articles acting like he was an easy pick.

Phillip Rivers started 51 games, on the day of the draft I didn't feel he was a better prospect than the early declare Ben Roethlisberger.

I understand that but his biggest knock on him is his experience which you and others say is a non-issue when it clearly is.

Also Big Ben started 3 years IIRC so he is not even a valid comparison.

Sanchez may end up being a great QB and he maybe drafted high to Seattle which maybe the perfect fit since he can sit for a couple of years at least to learn the game.

[philfree]

I understand that but his biggest knock on him is his experience which you and others say is a non-issue when it clearly is.

Also Big Ben started 3 years IIRC so he is not even a valid comparison.

Sanchez may end up being a great QB and he maybe drafted high to Seattle which maybe the perfect fit since he can sit for a couple of years at least to learn the game.

It's like the people who want Sanchez just can't admit that he is a pretty big risk at #3. I know they want the big payoff that they believe a franchise QB can bring and that's fine. Who wouldn't want that? Of course Cassel could become a franchise QB too and he is alot less risk. Who wouldn't want that?


PhilFree:arrow:

[DTLB58]

No not really the Curry stuff has gotten stupid too, the only difference is half the forum will defend Curry where when you do this Sanchez thing you are just trying to aggravate like 5 people.

The whole idea that someone will fail just because they are an underclassman is heavily ludicrous though. There are severe mitigating factors with every QB that busted ones that heavily outweigh the underclassman label. If it just came down to that then why do a whole crapload of senior QB's bust?

And McShay just said on Mike and Mike this morning that if the Chiefs pass on Curry it will be an epic failure on the part of the chiefs. :eek:

That adds to just the average fan menality that hears that and thinks that's the only way we should go.

[Jethopper]

Stop being gayfish

[Chiefnj2]

I love how certain people are about next years class.

Last year at this time Oher, Maualuga and Laurenaitis were all top 5 picks.

[ChiefsCountry]

Out of the list of busts look at the offense they ran in college. Ware was in the run n shoot, Leaf was in a spread, Couch was Mike Leach's QB at Kentucky, Grossman came from the fun n gun, and Smith from Meyer's spread. Shulers development stalled bc he was late getting signed for some reason. I think there is a lot more to look at than just starts. Another thing why would Sanchez even want to go back, he is graduating in May be kind of dumb to take one class just to get the magically 30 starts.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Just Passin' By]

This QB class is not great? Hmmmmm......





Is water still wet?

[Just Passin' By]

Just a note about Sanchez, Curry, and the rest of the draft, from Peter King (if I missed this earlier in the thread, my apologies):

In the last 10 days, I've spent hours (only my cell phone company knows how many for sure) foraging for crumbs for my Sports Illustrated mock, in your mailboxes Wednesday and Thursday. And the one thing I've heard on most calls is, "Well, you know Pioli wants to get out of his pick. He wants to trade down.''

It's true. He does want out. There's not a player Kansas City believes is worth third-pick-in-the-first-round money.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/04/20/draft/index.html

[Brock]

They said this last year.

[Chiefnj2]

The QB class isn't great and the top 3 players aren't all that highly regarded, yet everyday there are a dozen or so rumors of teams trying to trade up to grab one of these non-highly regarded players. Which is it?

[Just Passin' By]

The QB class isn't great and the top 3 players aren't all that highly regarded, yet everyday there are a dozen or so rumors of teams trying to trade up to grab one of these non-highly regarded players. Which is it?

Those two items aren't mutually exclusive and no trade has happened.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I want to be baptised by Mark Sanchez, the Elite QB prospect because paying a rookie franchise QB quarterback grip makes a hell of a lot more sense than paying top 5 money to a rookie MLB, and would in fact make me a moron if I were to do so.
Posted via Mobile Device

F to the Y to the P.

[salame]

Um everyone has said that, it's a pretty token thing to say at this point.

So I don't think it's some revelation that someone might be concerned he started 16 games.

Isn't that the same number of games that Matt Cassel has started?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Isn't that the same number of games that Matt Cassel has started?

Yes, but it doesn't matter. All that matters is that Cassel played his starts in the NFL behind the asses of one the best offenses in the league.
He is a sure thing, he can do no wrong, and he is the 1st Messiah.

[rad]

Yes, but it doesn't matter. All that matters is that Cassel played his starts in the NFL behind the asses of one the best offenses in the league.
He is a sure thing, he can do no wrong, and he is the 1st Messiah.

2nd.

I thought Huard was the 1st?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

2nd.

I thought Huard was the 1st?

1) Jesus GM ( Pioli )

2) 1st Messiah (Cassel )

3) 2nd Messiah and the Lord Our Savior ( Curry )

4) Chode choking Altar Boy (Thigpen )