Astronauts making one last house call to Hubble

[Donger]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090507/ap_on_sc/us_shuttle_hubble

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. – The Hubble Space Telescope is about to get one last house call. And never before have the risks been higher.

On Monday, astronauts will rocket away to the most famous telescope of modern times. They'll be taking up new scientific instruments, replacement parts for broken cameras and fresh batteries that should keep Hubble running for five to 10 years.

This cosmic-scale grand finale — stalled seven months by a telescope breakdown — will be NASA's most daring overhaul yet of the 19-year-old orbiting observatory, a captivating, twinkling jewel in the sky representing $10 billion of investment.

Never before have spacewalking astronauts attempted to fix dead science instruments on the Hubble, equipment that was never meant to be handled in orbit. Before they've just swapped out the whole thing at the telescope, which started out life shockingly nearsighted.

In all, five spacewalks will be performed in as many days by two repair teams. Two of the repairmen have visited Hubble before and, because of that, were chosen for this extraordinarily difficult job, on a par with operating-room surgery.

"Hubble needs a hug," said the chief repairman, John Grunsfeld, who will be making his third trip to the telescope.

Space shuttle Atlantis and its crew of seven will face increased danger from space junk because of Hubble's extremely high and littered orbit 350 miles up. They will need someone to come and get them — fast — if their ship sustains serious Columbia-type damage during launch or later in flight. They will not have the luxury of camping out at the international space station while awaiting rescue. The space station will be in another orbit and impossible to reach.

The mission, once canceled because it was considered too perilous, has an unprecedented safety net: another space shuttle on the launch pad. There is no guarantee, though, that NASA could pull off a rescue in time to save the Hubble crew. It would take three to seven days, at least, to launch a second shuttle.

All seven astronauts agree Hubble is worth risking their lives for.

"I'm only going to do that if I think it's for something really important, and I think Hubble is really important," said Grunsfeld, an astronaut-astrophysicist. Hubble is "worth bringing up to date and extending its vision even farther."

"It's showing us the way" to distant galaxies and, indeed, the actual edge of the universe, said the mission's commander, Scott Altman. "The next step is for us to try and go there."

Altman and his crew were just two weeks away from liftoff last fall when Hubble broke down and stopped sending pictures. NASA got the telescope working again with a backup channel on the failed command and data-handing unit, but the shuttle flight took a seven-month hit as engineers scrambled to get an old spare unit ready for launch.

No telescope ever has received as much hoo-ha or been on such a seesaw as Hubble, which has circled Earth more than 100,000 times and logged nearly 3 billion miles.

Launched aboard the space shuttle in 1990, Hubble went "from the top of Mount Everest to the bottom of the Dead Sea" in two months flat, observed NASA's science chief, Ed Weiler. The orbiting telescope had blurred vision; its primary mirror had been improperly ground.

Astronauts fixed everything in 1993 by installing corrective lenses and returned three more times — in 1997, 1999 and 2002 — to install better cameras and make other improvements.

In the meantime, Hubble was churning out breathtaking vistas of the cosmos, including the celebrated image of Eagle Nebula, a star-forming region 6,500 light years away. The picture is often referred to as "Pillars of Creation."

Hubble has shed light on the age of the universe (13.7 billion years) and shown that the universe may be expanding quicker than ever, and proved the existence of supermassive black holes, among other things. The telescope has peered back in time to within 800 million years of the first moments of the universe. The new instruments going up will take astronomers to within 500 million to 600 million years of creation.

Ground-based telescopes might see better than Hubble "over a very, very tiny field of view," Weiler said. "But you don't see Eagle Nebulas on the cover of Time magazine taken from the ground. You see them from Hubble. Hubble still has a unique niche."

The 2003 Columbia disaster put the fifth and final Hubble servicing mission that had been scheduled for 2004 on indefinite hold and, one year later, completely knocked it off the shuttle lineup.

With the public outraged over the abandonment of Hubble, NASA considered the idea of sending up a robot to replace the batteries and gyroscopes, plug in the latest wide-field camera, and perform some other jobs. But the robot plan never jelled, and the NASA administrator at the time, Michael Griffin, nixed it. Instead, Griffin approved one last Hubble tuneup by astronauts. He left NASA in January with the change in the White House.

Grunsfeld disagreed about the robot mission.

"I have absolutely no doubt it would have worked," Grunsfeld told The Associated Press. "I do think that we got a little too greedy and tried to propose that (a Hubble robot mission) would do a lot more than it really could."

Grunsfeld is quick to note that no robot could have tackled some chores they'll undertake — installing the new cosmic origins spectrograph for detecting faint light from faraway quasars and repairing two failed science instruments.

The spacewalkers will have to undo 117 fasteners to get to a bad electronics board inside an old imaging spectrograph, and deal with a hard-to-get-around corner to replace burned-out power supply cards in an advanced camera for surveys.

"It's right at the edge of what I think people can do, period," Grunsfeld said of the repairs.

In addition to all that, the astronauts will put in a new fine guidance sensor, part of Hubble's pointing system, add some steel skin to the telescope's blistered exterior. And they will hook up an improved capture ring so a future robot-guided craft can latch onto the Hubble and steer the observatory into a Pacific grave sometime in the early 2020s.

"I think of Hubble as a roller coaster," Weiler said late last month, referring to all its ups and downs. But the bottom line is, "Everybody loves Hubble now."

It's even won over the Twittering crowd. Astronaut Michael Massimino has been filing training updates via Twitter for the past month; he hopes to post from orbit, but is uncertain whether he'll have time.

Before tragedy struck with Columbia, Weiler envisioned a space shuttle bringing Hubble back to Earth and the telescope — "the great American comeback story" — being displayed at the Smithsonian Institution's National Air and Space Museum.

He imagined "little school kids going up to this huge four-story telescope and being able to say, 'That's what filled your textbook with pictures and traveled billions of miles in orbit.' "

Instead, the world will eventually watch as Hubble plunges from the sky.

Grunsfeld — who will have spent more time working on Hubble in space than any other human — said he will have no remorse when it comes time to leave the telescope near the end of the 11-day shuttle mission.

"The increase in Hubble's capability and the life extension is going to be so phenomenal that I'm just going to be thrilled to see it as it recedes onto the horizon as just another bright star," he said.

He's already planning a huge party for when Hubble plummets out of the sky in another decade or so, on a cruise ship somewhere in the Pacific.

[Otter]

So after 2014, does the telescope become a 2.5 billion dollar larger than average piece of space junk? It seems like there would be a lot of precious metals and reusalbe parts.

If there was any justice in the universe on the day after it goes out of commission it would drop square on GM corporate headquarters annihilating everything in its path.

[Donger]

So after 2014, does the telescope become a 2.5 billion dollar larger than average piece of space junk? It seems like there would be a lot of precious metals and reusalbe parts.

If there was any justice in the universe on the day after it goes out of commission it would drop square on GM corporate headquarters annihilating everything in its path.

If this mission is successful, Hubble will be operational for another 5 to 10 years. After that, she'll be de-orbited.

[Buck]

Interesting that they are putting these Astronauts at risk for this mission.

[oldandslow]

Hubble is science at its best.

[Otter]

If this mission is successful, Hubble will be operational for another 5 to 10 years. After that, she'll be de-orbited.

I guess I was wondering if they would try and salvage some of the parts before jettisoning but it doesn't sound like the risk vs. reward ratio works out in favor of the astronauts.

Still worth the money in my opinion. Not trying to get off this blue marble at some stage in the game is stupidity at its finest.

[Tytanium]

Interesting that they are putting these Astronauts at risk for this mission.


All astronauts have been at risk since the beginning of the space program. There is nothing new about this particular shuttle launch.

[Iowanian]

If they can "catch it" enough to work on it, why can't they load it back onto the shuttle and bring it back to earth for an overhaul?

[Donger]

I guess I was wondering if they would try and salvage some of the parts before jettisoning but it doesn't sound like the risk vs. reward ratio works out in favor of the astronauts.

Still worth the money in my opinion. Not trying to get off this blue marble at some stage in the game is stupidity at its finest.

Hubble is scheduled to be replaced by another space telescope (the JWST) in 2013, IIRC.

And, we do have plans to go back to the Moon and beyond. Well, we did, anyway. The new administration is about to start a review of NASA's missions shortly. Hopefully, they'll keep moving forward.

[Donger]

All astronauts have been at risk since the beginning of the space program. There is nothing new about this particular shuttle launch.

Well, it is risky than going to the ISS.

[Donger]

If they can "catch it" enough to work on it, why can't they load it back onto the shuttle and bring it back to earth for an overhaul?

Because the additional weight would make the orbiter rather tricky to land.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Interesting that they are putting these Astronauts at risk for this mission.Astronaut lives are typically at risk.

[Buck]

Astronaut lives are typically at risk.

It sounds like they are going to have to fly through a floating debris field.

One small ding in the wrong place of one of those space shuttles could mean certain doom upon re-entry.

[Iowanian]

They should add a garage bay to the ISS and haul in the big dawg satellites for repairs.

[Fish]

Interesting that they are putting these Astronauts at risk for this mission.

Many endeavors such as this are well worth the risk in the eyes of an astronaut. I'd gladly accept the risk simply for the chance to leave Earth's atmosphere...

[Donger]

It sounds like they are going to have to fly through a floating debris field.

One small ding in the wrong place of one of those space shuttles could mean certain doom upon re-entry.

There's a slightly higher than normal chance of Atlantis getting smacked by junk on this flight. However, the danger is that she wouldn't be able to get to the ISS if an emergency occurs. That's why they are going to have another shuttle ready.

[Buck]

I remember when I was in Elementary School we had books in the Library about Space Colonies.

It said we would be living in them by 2010.

Keep in mind I started Kindergarten in 1991.

[Alton deFlat]

Where's Montgomery Scott when you need him?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e5/MontgomeryScott.jpg/250px-MontgomeryScott.jpg

[JohnnyV13]

It sounds like they are going to have to fly through a floating debris field.

One small ding in the wrong place of one of those space shuttles could mean certain doom upon re-entry.

Big deal. Hans Solo successfully navigated an asteroid field in 1977. He even evaded a giant asteroid monster. Of course, I never could figure out what that monster ate when Millenium Falcons weren't navigating asteroid fields.

[bevischief]

Target practice for UFO's?

[Bugeater]

Waste of fucking money.

[ROYC75]

Waste of ****ing money.

So was the Tonka truck we sent to Mars !

[Brock]

So was the Tonka truck we sent to Mars !

:drool:

[Donger]

Waste of ****ing money.

Not a big fan of continuing to learn more about the origins of the universe, eh?

[Bob Dole]

I remember when I was in Elementary School we had books in the Library about Space Colonies.

It said we would be living in them by 2010.



If it helps any, some of us wish you were.

[Buck]

If it helps any, some of us wish you were.

Thanks Bob Dole.

[Donger]

This picture gave me an erection, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

[Donger]

You can watch the launch here: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html

[Skip Towne]

This picture gave me an erection, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

That pic didn't even get me breathing hard.

[Donger]

That pic didn't even get me breathing hard.

Shall I post a picture of Bea Arthur?

[Donger]

One hour and 19 minutes until go time.

[buddha]

The riskiest part of the whole process is the lift off and the next minute afterward. Once you're past that, it doesn't really matter if you're going to the ISS, Hubble, etc.

The James Webb Space Telescope will make Hubble look like stone knives and bear skin rugs. Hubble has been awesome, but JWST is going to show us things we haven't even dreamed of yet.

Exciting stuff.

[Donger]

T-20 minutes and holding.

[Donger]

T-20 minutes and counting.

[Skip Towne]

Shall I post a picture of Bea Arthur?

That was just WRONG.

[Donger]

T-9 minutes and holding.

[Skip Towne]

Is this on TV? What channel?

[Donger]

Is this on TV? What channel?

Science Channel. Nasa TV. I don't know if the majors are carrying it.

[Buck]

It should have just gone.

How was it?

[Donger]

It should have just gone.

How was it?

What?

[Buck]

You said it was supposed to blast off at 10:22 am pacific time...

Nevermind, I'm watching it streaming now

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html

[Buck]

Sounds like it was delayed until 2:02 PM Eastern

[acesn8s]

launch at 1:01pm cdt

[Donger]

You said it was supposed to blast off at 10:22 am pacific time...

Nevermind, I'm watching it streaming now

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html

No, I didn't.

[Buck]

No, I didn't.

What exactly does T-20 Minutes and Counting mean then?

Sorry if I got confused there.

[Donger]

Sounds like it was delayed until 2:02 PM Eastern

That has always been the planned liftoff time. There have been no delays.

[Donger]

What exactly does T-20 Minutes and Counting mean then?

Sorry if I got confused there.

The are built-in holds, including a long one at T-9 minutes. So, right now, we are at T-9 minutes and holding. They hold for another 21 minutes, then resume the countdown to zero.

[Buck]

The are built-in holds, including a long one at T-9 minutes. So, right now, we are at T-9 minutes and holding. They hold for another 21 minutes, then resume the countdown to zero.

Oh, makes no sense, but I'm sure they have a good reason.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Donger]

Oh, makes no sense, but I'm sure they have a good reason.

Thanks for clearing that up.

This might help:

T-43 hours and counting
The Shuttle Test Director performs the traditional call to stations and the countdown clock is activated.

* Begin final vehicle and facility close-outs for launch
* Check out backup flight systems
* Review flight software stored in mass memory units and display systems
* Load backup flight system software into the orbiter's general purpose computers
* Remove middeck and flight deck platforms
* Activate and test navigational systems
* Complete preparation to load power reactant storage and distribution system
* Complete flight deck preliminary inspections

Overhead view of Firing Room 1Image to right: The space shuttle launch team seated in Kennedy's Firing Room 1.
Credit: NASA

T-27 hours and holding
This is the first built-in hold and typically lasts four hours.

* Clear launch pad of all non-essential personnel

T-27 hours and counting

* Begin operations to load cryogenic reactants into the orbiter's fuel cell storage tanks

T-19 hours and holding
This built-in hold typically lasts four hours.

* Demate the orbiter's midbody umbilical unit

T-19 hours and counting

* Begin final preparations of the orbiter's three main engines for main propellant tanking and flight
* Fill launch pad sound suppression system water tank
* Resume orbiter and ground support equipment close-outs
* Close out the tail service masts on the mobile launcher platform

T-11 hours and holding
This built-in hold varies in length, but typically lasts 12 to 13 hours.

* Flight crew equipment late stow
* Move rotating service structure to "park" position
* Activate the orbiter's inertial measurement units and communications systems
* Perform ascent switch list

Rollback of rotating service structure Image to right: The rotating service structure is rolled slowly into the "park" position, revealing Space Shuttle Atlantis as the launch countdown for STS-98 enters its final hours. Credit: NASA

T-11 hours and counting

* Activate the orbiter's fuel cells
* Clear the blast danger area of all nonessential personnel
* Switch the orbiter's purge air to gaseous nitrogen

T-6 hours and holding
This built-in hold typically lasts two hours.

* Launch team verifies no violations of launch commit criteria before loading the external tank with propellants
* Clear pad of all personnel
* Chill-down of propellant transfer lines
* Begin loading the external tank with about 500,000 gallons of cryogenic propellants

T-6 hours and counting

* Finish filling the external tank with its flight load of liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen propellants

T-3 hours and holding
This built-in hold typically lasts two hours.

* Perform inertial measurement unit preflight calibration
* Align Merritt Island Launch Area (MILA) tracking antennas
* Final Inspection Team proceeds to the launch pad to conduct a detailed analysis of the vehicle as the team walks up and down the entire launch tower
* Closeout Crew proceeds to the launch pad to configure the crew module for countdown and launch and assist the astronauts with entry into the orbiter

T-3 hours and counting

* Crew departs for the launch pad and, upon arriving at the pad, begins entry into the orbiter via the White Room
* Complete close-out preparations in the launch pad's White Room
* Check cockpit switch configurations
* Astronauts perform air-to-ground voice checks with Launch Control (Kennedy Space Center) and Mission Control (Johnson Space Center)
* Close the orbiter's crew hatch and check for leaks
* Complete White Room close-out
* Close-out crew retreats to fallback area

The gaseous oxygen vent arm and orbiter access arm
T-20 minutes and holding
This built-in hold typically lasts 10 minutes.

* Shuttle Test Director conducts final launch team briefings
* Complete inertial measurement unit preflight alignments

Image to right: Space Shuttle Discovery waits to launch on mission STS-103. At the top is the external tank gaseous oxygen vent arm system with the vent hood (sometimes called the "beanie cap") poised above the external tank. Extending toward the cabin of the orbiter below is the orbiter access arm, with the White Room at the end. Credit: NASA

T-20 minutes and counting

* Transition the orbiter's onboard computers to launch configuration
* Start fuel cell thermal conditioning
* Close orbiter cabin vent valves
* Transition backup flight system to launch configuration

T-9 minutes and holding
This is the final built-in hold, and varies in length depending on the mission.

* The Launch Director, Mission Management Team and Shuttle Test Director poll their teams for a go/no go for launch

Liftoff of Endeavour on mission STS-111Image to right: A fish-eye view captures Space Shuttle Endeavour just after liftoff on mission STS-111. Credit: NASA

T-9 minutes and counting

* Start automatic ground launch sequencer
* Retract orbiter access arm (T-7 minutes, 30 seconds)
* Start auxiliary power units (T-5 minutes, 0 seconds)
* Arm solid rocket booster range safety safe and arm devices (T-5 minutes, 0 seconds)
* Start orbiter aerosurface profile test, followed by main engine gimbal profile test (T-3 minutes, 55 seconds)
* Retract gaseous oxygen vent arm, or "beanie cap"
(T-2 minutes, 55 seconds)
* Crew members close and lock their visors
(T-2 minutes, 0 seconds)
* Orbiter transfers from ground to internal power
(T-50 seconds)
* Ground launch sequencer is go for auto sequence start (T-31 seconds)
* Activate launch pad sound suppression system
(T-16 seconds)
* Activate main engine hydrogen burnoff system
(T-10 seconds)
* Main engine start (T-6.6 seconds)

T-0

* Solid rocket booster ignition and liftoff!

[Skip Towne]

Science Channel. Nasa TV. I don't know if the majors are carrying it.

Directv guide says ch.376 but it has some third world shit on it. I guess I'll stay with your play by play.

[Donger]

Directv guide says ch.376 but it has some third world shit on it. I guess I'll stay with your play by play.

There's a link to NASA TV above. They are streaming video and audio.

[Amnorix]

Hubble is scheduled to be replaced by another space telescope (the JWST) in 2013, IIRC.

And, we do have plans to go back to the Moon and beyond. Well, we did, anyway. The new administration is about to start a review of NASA's missions shortly. Hopefully, they'll keep moving forward.

I'd think 5 more Hubbles would be both more useful and cheaper than going to the moon again.

[Donger]

19 minutes

[Donger]

I'd think 5 more Hubbles would be both more useful and cheaper than going to the moon again.

Meh.

[Buck]

Directv guide says ch.376 but it has some third world shit on it. I guess I'll stay with your play by play.

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html

And thanks Donger, that cleared it up quite well.

[Donger]

F*cking clouds...

[mlyonsd]

Oh, makes no sense, but I'm sure they have a good reason.

Thanks for clearing that up.

It gives the newbie astronauts time to puke one last time in the bag before screwing on their helmet.

[Buck]

Are Rain Clouds due to stay there or you think they are going to pass by?

[Donger]

Entire crew is go. No constraints.

[Donger]

Are Rain Clouds due to stay there or you think they are going to pass by?

They'll light Atlantis up as scheduled.

[Donger]

Two minutes to count resume.

[Buck]

They'll light Atlantis up as scheduled.

I just looked up the Doppler Radar for Cape Canaveral.

It didn't have anything on it. I'm guessing these are going to pass ASAP.

[Donger]

T-9 minutes and counting

[Donger]

Ground launch sequencer in control.

[Donger]

Access arm retract

[Donger]

APU start. T-5 minutes

[Buck]

Is there another Shuttle going up too?

[Donger]

Gimbal test

[Donger]

Is there another Shuttle going up too?

Hopefully not.

[Donger]

Close and lock visors, astronauts.

[Donger]

T-1 minute 30 seconds

[Donger]

Beanie cap retract

[Buck]

So exciting!

[Donger]

On internal power, sound suppression armed

[Donger]

Auto sequence start

[Donger]

Here we gio!

[Donger]

Liftoff! Tower cleared, roll.

[Donger]

Nearing Max Q

[Donger]

Throttle up

[Donger]

7 miles up,

[Donger]

Transients. 2,500 mph

[Pitt Gorilla]

So cool that we can watch the launch on the net. :clap:

[Donger]

SRB sep

[Donger]

2 engine clear

[Donger]

310,000 feet and negative return

[Donger]

Press to ATO

[Donger]

65 miles at 6,500 mph

[Donger]

Press to MECO

[Donger]

Single engine op three

[Donger]

Rolling heads-up

[Donger]

353,000 feet

[Buck]

I wish there was a better camera angle, but I guess thats pretty much impossible.

[Donger]

Bad inducer. Bad! Naughty!

[Donger]

I wish there was a better camera angle, but I guess thats pretty much impossible.

:spock:

[Donger]

MECO!

[Donger]

Atlantis in orbit.

[Dartgod]

I can't see them anymore! OMG, WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!!!!!11111111ONEONE

[Donger]

No OMs burn required.

That's it folks. Eight minutes from liftoff to orbit.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I can't see them anymore! OMG, WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!!!!!11111111ONEONECassel just threw a pick.

[Dartgod]

Cassel just threw a pick.
DAMMIT, CARL! :cuss:

[Buck]

:spock:

Like maybe a Camera pointed out the front windshield?

You don't have to make me feel like a retard.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Like maybe a Camera pointed out the front windshield?

You don't have to make me feel like a retard.All the dogs would get in the way.

[Donger]

Like maybe a Camera pointed out the front windshield?

You don't have to make me feel like a retard.

IIRC, the camera you were watching was added after Columbia broke apart. It's there to help look for foam and ice strikes. The fact that they let us watch it is sufficient.

Sorry if I made you feel that way, but old farts used to only get to watch from the ground (no on-board cameras).

[Buck]

IIRC, the camera you were watching was added after Columbia broke apart. It's there to help look for foam and ice strikes. The fact that they let us watch it is sufficient.

I see.

I was just saying I wish they had another angle. But if its not pertinent to them, then thats fine.

[Donger]

I see.

I was just saying I wish they had another angle. But if its not pertinent to them, then thats fine.

There are other cameras on the SRBs, but I've never seen their video broadcast.

[Buck]

I want to know when we are going to have Starfleets with huge Spaceships - I.E. USS Enterprise, or Battlestar Galactica...

I forsee ships like that in the future, I just don't know if it will be in my lifetime or not.

Edit: Well you know, without the Warp Speed or Faster Than Light Drives...

[Donger]

I see.

I was just saying I wish they had another angle. But if its not pertinent to them, then thats fine.

Here you go:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iwfsFtpACFw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iwfsFtpACFw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Donger]

Heh. The commander of this flight was one of the navy pilots who flew for the Top Gun movie. Specifically, he's the one who flipped off the Soviet.

[mikey23545]

I'd think 5 more Hubbles would be both more useful and cheaper than going to the moon again.

First of all, you're incredibly, stupidly, short-sightedly wrong.

Secondly, how does a human end up as dead on the inside as people like you?

[Reaper16]

First of all, you're incredibly, stupidly, short-sightedly wrong.

Secondly, how does a human end up as dead on the inside as people like you?
:spock:

[stumppy]

I've been watching the NASA channel on TV this past month. It's a great channel to check out from time to time. It certainly has given me a greater appreciation of what these people do.
They're on a pretty tight schedule but I'm confident this crew will get hubble back in working order.

:toast:
Here's to a succesful mission and safe return.

[Amnorix]

Meh.

You seek excitement from your space program. I seek knowledge and scientific advancement. I'm not sure how more moon rocks gets us there economically.

[Amnorix]

First of all, you're incredibly, stupidly, short-sightedly wrong.

Secondly, how does a human end up as dead on the inside as people like you?

Putting aside our long standing and deeply held dislike for each other, tell me what the f**k we're going to learn from going to the moon again?

I'm more than open to the space program. But I'd like some bang for my buck, not more space rocks. We've learned more about the universe from Hubble than we ever did from going to the moon, at much less cost/risk.

You might get a stiffy from exciting space projects, but god-forbid that we have an intelligent and cost-effective approach to science rather than satisfying your craving for excitement.

[Amnorix]

:spock:

Don't mind him. We hated each other on first post, as it were. BEsides, he's genetically dickheaded.

:D

[Amnorix]

BTW, it's a long-standing goal of mine to see a nighttime shuttle launch. I think that would be unbelievably awesome.

[KC Dan]

I'm more than open to the space program. But I'd like some bang for my buck, not more space rocks. We've learned more about the universe from Hubble than we ever did from going to the moon, at much less cost/risk.
This!

[Donger]

You seek excitement from your space program. I seek knowledge and scientific advancement. I'm not sure how more moon rocks gets us there economically.

I view going back to the Moon as a necessary prelude to a Mars mission. Exploration and the advancement of the knowledge of our solar system is the goal. Excitement is just a delicious bonus.

["Bob" Dobbs]

Putting aside our long standing and deeply held dislike for each other, tell me what the f**k we're going to learn from going to the moon again?

I'm more than open to the space program. But I'd like some bang for my buck, not more space rocks. We've learned more about the universe from Hubble than we ever did from going to the moon, at much less cost/risk.

You might get a stiffy from exciting space projects, but god-forbid that we have an intelligent and cost-effective approach to science rather than satisfying your craving for excitement.True, we've learned more about the universe from HST, but Apollo taught us a LOT more about the origins of the Earth, specifically.

[Rooster]

Where in the hell are the flying cars?:cuss:

Sorry I got carried away.:)

[Discuss Thrower]

Where in the hell are the flying cars?:cuss:

Sorry I got carried away.:)

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[Amnorix]

I view going back to the Moon as a necessary prelude to a Mars mission. Exploration and the advancement of the knowledge of our solar system is the goal. Excitement is just a delicious bonus.

**IF** that is true, then I don't oppose it. I'd suggest a deferred track on that kind of money, however, until our budgetary problems are reined in.

[Donger]

**IF** that is true, then I don't oppose it. I'd suggest a deferred track on that kind of money, however, until our budgetary problems are reined in.

You would oppose a sustained human presence on the Moon?

[Amnorix]

You would oppose a sustained human presence on the Moon?

I support scientific study and human advancement and economic development. If a sustained presence was cost-benefit justified, then I would support it. I don't support it just for being cool or becuase Space 1999 was a great TV show or anything.

And for the record, this is basically my approach to just about anything -- social programs, economic programs, governmental regulation etc ad infinitum.

[Donger]

I support scientific study and human advancement and economic development. If a sustained presence was cost-benefit justified, then I would support it. I don't support it just for being cool or becuase Space 1999 was a great TV show or anything.

And for the record, this is basically my approach to just about anything -- social programs, economic programs, governmental regulation etc ad infinitum.

I'm not sure that, at this point, you can perform a cost versus benefit analysis and be happy with the result. You can't put a dollar figure on the benefit of having a secondary human presence on a rock beyond Earth, IMO.

[Amnorix]

I'm not sure that, at this point, you can perform a cost versus benefit analysis and be happy with the result. You can't put a dollar figure on the benefit of having a secondary human presence on a rock beyond Earth, IMO.

It would start if you could list some benefits at all.

And then compare them to cheaper alternatives.

Separately is the question of WHEN, and I would suggest that right now is not the time to dig DEEP into our pockets on what is essentially an optional exercise. Our budgetary situation is completely f'ed. I'd like it straightened out to some degree before going off into the never never.

[Halfcan]

sign me up-I will fix that pos

[Donger]

NASA: Nicks on shuttle don't appear to be serious

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. – The Atlantis astronauts uncovered a 21-inch stretch of nicks on their space shuttle Tuesday, but NASA said the damage did not appear to be serious.

The damage was likely the result of debris that came off the fuel tank shortly after liftoff Monday. The astronauts were inspecting their ship while racing to the Hubble Space Telescope when they came across the nicks spread over four to five thermal tiles.

A NASA photo shows what appears to be about ten white scuff marks — officials hadn't counted how many yet — around the edge of the shuttle where the right wing joins the fuselage and the belly curves up to the top of Atlantis.

"It doesn't look very serious," Mission Control said. "Those tiles are pretty thick. The nicks look to be pretty small."

This repair mission is especially risky — a rescue shuttle is on standby for the first time ever — because of the debris-littered orbit of Hubble. Unlike other space flights, the astronauts can't reach the international space station because it is in a different orbit than the telescope.

NASA managers weren't too worried Tuesday, saying this type of damage looks similar to nicks seen in the past five or six missions that were safe.

"The area is not as critical" as other parts on the shuttle wing, deputy shuttle program manager LeRoy Cain said in a Tuesday afternoon news conference. "The damage itself appears to be relatively shallow and it's not a very large area of damage."

"Again, right now, everybody's feeling pretty good that it's not something particularly serious," Mission Control told the astronauts. "We just want to make sure we do the right thing and complete all the analysis."

The debris strike was detected in launch images as well as sensors embedded in the wings.

Damage to the shuttle during liftoff has been a worry for NASA since Columbia was doomed by a chunk of fuel-tank insulating foam that broke off during launch in 2003. Columbia's left wing was punctured, along a vulnerable edge and at the time NASA managers ignored an engineer's request for more photos of potential damage. NASA said the nicks on Atlantis are in a less sensitive location.

Cain told reporters that a decision will be made Wednesday whether the astronauts will need to conduct a more detailed inspection of that area. Cain said he doubts it would be needed. If it is required, the additional survey to determine the depth of the nicks would be done Friday right before the second of five spacewalks planned for Hubble.

Even before damage was discovered, NASA was preparing shuttle Endeavour to rush to the astronauts' rescue if needed. Nothing so far has been found that would require a rescue.

Atlantis will catch up with the 19-year-old Hubble on Wednesday. The astronauts will capture the aging observatory and, the next day, begin the first of five grueling spacewalks to install new cameras and equipment and repair some broken science instruments.

Meanwhile, Atlantis' launch pad took more of a beating than usual during Monday's launch. The heat-resistant material that covers the bricks beneath the pad was blasted off a roughly 25-square-foot area. Some nitrogen gas and pressurized air lines also were damaged.

The damage to the bricked flame trench — which deflect the flames at booster rocket ignition — was near a previously repaired spot but not an area severely battered last year. Monday's damage was not as bad, said NASA spokesman Allard Beutel.

And the other launch pad, where Endeavour sits, was struck twice by lightning late Monday, but the shuttle appears to have no damage because of a lightning protection system, Cain said.

[Buck]

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1897824,00.html

Space Shuttle: Same Old Damage, Same Old Worries
By Jeffrey Kluger Wednesday, May. 13, 2009

Here are three things NASA can do to become a safer agency: stop flying Atlantis, stop flying Endeavour, stop flying Discovery. Those, of course, are NASA's three space shuttles, and once the last of the snakebit ships is finally mothballed, here's one more piece of advice: Don't ever build anything like them again.

The shuttle Atlantis is once again in orbit — this time for a final servicing visit to the venerable Hubble Space Telescope — and once again the world is sweating out reports of damage to the spacecraft's thermal tiles caused by debris shed from the external fuel tank during liftoff on Monday. It was just that kind of mishap that doomed the shuttle Columbia and its seven-member crew back in 2003, allowing superheated gases to penetrate the ship during re-entry and causing it to disintegrate. That was the second shuttle to be lost in flight, after the explosion of Challenger in 1986. The hope now is that the three surviving ships can limp along without any further accidents for nine more missions — through 2010 or 2011 — after which construction of the International Space Station (ISS) will be complete and the orbiters can be retired. (See pictures of the Hubble Space Telescope.)

First, however, NASA has to get through the current flight, and that became a dicier matter when reports came down Tuesday afternoon that sensors under the shuttle's skin and a camera at the end of its robotic arm discovered a scattering of dings across a 21-in. stretch in the leading edge of the right wing, affecting four or five tiles. NASA was quick to call for calm. Indeed, Atlantis was scheduled to rendezvous with Hubble at 7:41 a.m. ET on Wednesday, but it will be more than five hours later before the shuttle's robot arm actually grabs hold of it.

"The preliminary analysis is that the damage is not very deep and this is not something we're very worried about," said mission manager LeRoy Cain at an afternoon press conference on Tuesday. "It looks like something just chattered away on the edge there."

If it does turn out that the damage is more serious than that, it will be occurring on a particularly bad mission. Most of the shuttles' trips to orbit these days are for visits with the ISS. The station is a roomy place — by spacecraft standards at least — and if a shuttle's underside is found to be too badly damaged to allow a safe re-entry, the astronauts could simply bunk down in the ISS until another shuttle or Russian Soyuz ships could bring them home.

But that's not an option on this mission. The Hubble orbits at an altitude of about 350 miles and an inclination of 28.5 degrees. The ISS orbits lower — roughly 220 miles above the earth — and at a much sharper 51.6-degree angle. It's not hard for a spacecraft to change its altitude, but shifting its orbital plane is monstrously hard and energy-consuming, and the shuttle would never be able to pull off such a maneuver. So, the fallback for this crew is another whole orbiter, the shuttle Endeavour, which has been poised on Pad B at Cape Canaveral since before Atlantis launched, just in case a rescue is needed.

As dangerous as it can be to fly the shuttles, the agency has done a commendable job of getting the debris problem under control since the loss of Columbia. Cameras on the underside of the ship send back live streaming videos throughout the launch phase, allowing controllers to monitor any foam or other material that is shed en route. Analysis of Atlantis' tapes show a relatively small debris hit at the 106-sec. mark in the ascent — at precisely the moment skin sensors also detected a strike in the area in which the dings have been spotted. That area, at about the spot where the wing meets the ship, isn't the best possible place to suffer damage, since the heat buildup there can be considerable during re-entry, but it's not the worst either, since other areas get a whole lot hotter. (See pictures of animals in space.)

"It's not as dangerous as if it had occurred farther back," says Cain. "The same amount of damage in another area would have been more problematic."

So sanguine is NASA about this problem — or, at least, so sanguine is it trying to appear — that while Cain says engineers will spend the night analyzing the images and data from Atlantis, he does not think the inspection will yield anything to cause further worry. "We probably won't even need a focused inspection in this area," says Cain. "Still, we want them to take the time and review the data."

Meantime, back in Florida, Endeavour waits in case it's needed. There too, people are feeling a little jumpy. Earlier Tuesday, Pad B was struck by lightning — though Endeavour shook it off without any damage.

[chasedude]

I've taken apart many laptops and worried about losing those tiny screws.

I can't imagine doing that in zero gravity confined to a space suit

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=7608296&page=1



Astronaut Mike Massimino is struggling to remove a balky bolt from a cover on a panel on the Hubble Space Telescope.


http://a.abcnews.com/images/Technology/ap_space_walk_21_090517_mn.jpg

In this photo provided by NASA, astronaut Andrew Feustel, left, STS-125 mission specialist, navigates near the Hubble Space Telescope on the end of the remote manipulator system arm, controlled from inside Atlantis' crew cabin as astronaut John Grunsfeld, right, signals to his crew mate from just a few feet away, Saturday, May 16, 2009. Astronauts Feustel and Grunsfeld were continuing servicing work on the giant observatory, locked down in the cargo bay of the shuttle. (AP Photo/NASA) http://a.abcnews.com/assets/images/icons/icon-arrow-up.gif (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=7608296&page=1#)
(NASA/AP Photo)
More Photos (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Space/popup?id=7596303)

There are 116 tools in the tool kit on Atlantis to fix the Hubble Space Telescope, including a bolt puller vise grip. He hopes that is the tool he needs to solve this latest problem on the fourth spacewalk of the mission.
On Saturday, astronauts John Grunsfeld and Drew Feustel whipped through what was supposed to be the toughest spacewalk of the mission to repair the Hubble Space Telescope with remarkable ease.
The two replaced an old instrument with the new Cosmic Origins Spectrograph, and then repaired a broken camera deep inside the telescope, removing blown circuit boards that were never meant to be taken off in orbit.
Hubble Chief Scientist Dave Leckrone said Grunsfeld and Feustel were throwing down the gauntlet for the astronauts tasked with the todays spacewalk -- the fourth of the mission.


"Mike and Mike are probably feeling pretty competitive today," Leckrone said. "If I were Mike Massimino tonight I would have my work cut out to show them up. I predict this spacewalk will be successful."
The two Mikes -- Mike Massimino and Mike Good are working on the telescope's Space Telescope Imaging Spectrograph, or STIS. They have the very challenging task of replacing a low-voltage power supply board, which contains a failed power converter. This means taking out 117 very small screws -- and not letting any of those screws float away -- to accomplish the repair.

STIS has been in "safe mode" since August 2004, when its power supply failed. Massimino, during training on the ground, managed to do this in 40 minutes.
The spacewalkers also will install one of two new protective thermal insulation panels to protect Hubble from space junk.
Spacewalking to fix the Hubble Space Telescope is hard work, especially when the shoe doesn't fit. If your feet hurt nothing is fun. Ask any woman who has to smile while wearing four-inch heels.
Astronaut Mike Good struggled with an ill-fitting boot on his first spacewalk last week, and a team on the ground at Mission Control sent up suggestions to adjust the fit.

[Baby Lee]

So cool that we can watch the launch on the net. :clap:

I preferred the 60 inches of HD from HDNet, like clockwork I teared up on liftoff.

[kstater]

I've taken apart many laptops and worried about losing those tiny screws.

I can't imagine doing that in zero gravity confined to a space suit


He's not actually going to be picking these screws up. They've designed a template that goes over the old system that as he unscrews them, they go inside the template.

[chasedude]

He's not actually going to be picking these screws up. They've designed a template that goes over the old system that as he unscrews them, they go inside the template.

If only I had tools like that when I tore through some notebooks.

[Donger]

Hubble successfully upgraded and released.

[HemiEd]

Hubble successfully upgraded and released.
That is cool, do you have a link to a story?

[Donger]

That is cool, do you have a link to a story?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090519/ap_on_sc/us_shuttle_hubble;_ylt=AvhWp42WhGEQX7PTP_VxBYas0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTJrNjJyamM0BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNTE5L3V zX3NodXR0bGVfaHViYmxlBGNwb3MDMTAEcG9zAzE4BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA2FzdHJvbmF1dHNzYQ--

[HemiEd]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090519/ap_on_sc/us_shuttle_hubble;_ylt=AvhWp42WhGEQX7PTP_VxBYas0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTJrNjJyamM0BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNTE5L3V zX3NodXR0bGVfaHViYmxlBGNwb3MDMTAEcG9zAzE4BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA2FzdHJvbmF1dHNzYQ--
Thanks, good read! This program just amazes me, repeatedly, with all the advancements since I first read about "sputnik" in my 1958 weekly reader.