Cassel and Whitlock = BFF's

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Sorry if repost:

Let the hate begin!


Posted on Tue, May. 26, 2009
I’m starting to get cold feet about Cassel
JASON WHITLOCK COMMENTARY

If this is an audition, it’s a very expensive one.

When Scott Pioli struck the deal for Tom Brady understudy Matt Cassel, the experts lauded Pioli for acquiring the one-year wonder for such a “reasonable” price, a second-round pick.

Three months later — with Cassel still unsigned to a long-term deal — the price tag is losing quite a bit of its discount value. In fact, you could argue that Cassel inked a rather generous prenuptial agreement and Bill Belichick unloaded a potential headache.

It appears the Chiefs have little interest in signing Matt Cassel to a long-term contract before the start of the season. Or, more likely, Pioli lost interest in signing Cassel to a long-term contract once Kansas City’s first-time general manager learned Cassel and agent David Dunn’s asking price.

Given Cassel’s and Pioli’s New England relationship, I just assumed when the Chiefs traded for Cassel, the parameters of a long-term deal were agreed upon before the trade. I assumed wrong. Or, more likely, Cassel and Dunn elevated their contract demands after perusing the Chiefs’ roster and salary-cap situation.

The Chiefs have enough salary-cap room to house, feed, clothe and entertain most of Canada. And Kansas City’s current offensive personnel would make any rational QB demand hazardous-work pay.

Whatever the cause, Pioli and Dunn can’t agree on Cassel’s worth. The rumor around the Loch Lloyd golf course is the Cassels are renting, not buying.

Can you really blame them in this economy and with a fickle housing market?

But whom should we blame for this expensive experiment?

As of right now, Cassel is scheduled to earn nearly $15 million for the 2009 season. That’s his franchise-tag number.

Had we known in February that Cassel would cost $15 million and a second-round pick for one season of play, would we still regard his acquisition as a wise move?

Of course, if he plays lights-out and proves that his one good, Randy Moss-Wes Welker-fueled season was no fluke, no one will complain about the acquisition price and no one will care what the Chiefs have to pay next season to keep him.

The problem is, I just can’t imagine him putting together a magnificent or even solid season in 2009.

Tony Gonzalez is gone. Larry Johnson is still here. Brian Waters is somewhere brooding. The Chiefs drafted a bunch of defensive linemen.

The way Pioli has assembled offensive talent (36-year-old Bobby Engram is the big-ticket free-agent signing) makes me believe he’s negotiating with Dunn and Cassel.

No offense to Cassel, but he’s a college and NFL bench-warmer who had the luxury of playing quarterback alongside the greatest offensive force (Moss) the league has seen since Jim Brown.

Last season Cassel stepped into a moving vehicle and did a good job of not running off the road. Kansas City’s offense has been stuck in neutral since Dick Vermeil left. And now the one reliable tire left on KC’s car moved to Atlanta.

This smells like 15 TDs and 20 interceptions, doesn’t it? Or maybe seven TDs, 12 interceptions and a season-ending injury halfway through the season.

It’s not even June, and I can already hear the Tyler Thigpen chants in the distance. By October, the talk-radio shows will be filled with Grbac-Gannon analogies.

The official Vegas over-under line on when I’ll write my first Jeff George column is Oct. 3. I’m playing the under if you must know.

For the record, my official position is I’d prefer to see the Chiefs draft and develop a quarterback. The Chiefs keep trying to convert backups — even Joe Montana was Steve Young’s backup in San Fran — into Super Bowl quarterbacks.

You ever break up with a girlfriend/boyfriend, date their best friend and then complain about the same problems? It’s stupid. It’s just as stupid to keep dating the exact same quarterback.

Most backup quarterbacks are backups for a good reason. They don’t marinate on the bench for eight years waiting to be discovered.

My problem with Cassel is he didn’t transfer out of USC when he was stuck behind Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart. The great ones generally have massive egos that can’t be satisfied riding the pine.

Man, I hope I’m wrong about this $15 million audition.

[DaFace]

I guess I don't really care about the $15 million. We've got the cap room, and it's not coming out of my pocket. :shrug:

[Mr. Arrowhead]

ROFL Joe Montana was a back up

[L.A. Chieffan]

nothing can ever just go RIGHT, huh?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

ROFL Joe Montana was a back up

Caught that too, did ya'? :D He's gonna' take MUCH shit from his peers over that.

[milkman]

ROFL Joe Montana was a back up

Technically, at the time he was traded, he was relegated to back up status behind Young.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

Caught that too, did ya'? :D He's gonna' take MUCH shit from his peers over that.

yea i think whitlock has lost it more than he ever has, due to Arrowhead being on lock down

[Slainte]

Technically, at the time he was traded, he was relegated to back up status behind Young.

Yeah, that's what I assumed he was talking about. Or perhaps he forgot Elvis Grbac's name...

[Mr. Arrowhead]

Technically, at the time he was traded, he was relegated to back up status behind Young.
your right, but the way he writes it is Joe Montana was just another Back up that we tried to convert to be a starter, which every one know is bullshit.

[DaKCMan AP]

JWhit needs to realize the Chiefs can tag Cassel after this year and, in the case of the CBA expiring without a new plan in place, he needs to review the terms in which we'd still own Cassel's rights.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Yeah, that's what I assumed he was talking about. Or perhaps he forgot Elvis Grbac's name...

Elvis who?:D

[kc rush]

Bring in Jeff George.

[Buehler445]

I have concerns about Cassel, but this article is het stooped.

He doesn't have a contract and that's whitlock's biggest concern?
Posted via Mobile Device

[LaChapelle]

JW job security article.

[the Talking Can]

why do people pretend the money matters?

dishonesty or ignorance?

[milkman]

your right, but the way he writes it is Joe Montana was just another Back up that we tried to convert to be a starter, which every one know is bullshit.

I think his point is that the Chiefs have never drafted and developed a QB.

They are always signing or trading for someone else's throwaways, and Montana was a 9er throwaway at that time.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Bring in Jeff George.

LMAO

It's Nate Davis now.

[raybec 4]

Why the fuck would Fatty McButterpants have a problem with Cassel honoring his commitment to USC and staying on a championship team instead of transferring to some also ran for pt?

[The Bronco Rob]

I had no idead Jason Whitlock gleaned his ideas from cheefplanet?

Jason you owe me some Gates!












:thumb:

[milkman]

I had no idead Jason Whitlock gleaned his ideas from cheefplanet?

Jason you owe me some Gates!












:thumb:

This isn't some new, fresh idea, dumbass.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I had no idead Jason Whitlock gleaned his ideas from cheefplanet?

Jason you owe me some Gates!













:thumb:

And................the thread began to smell not unlike vinegar and water.

[LaChapelle]

Bronco Rub

[JuicesFlowing]

"The official Vegas over-under line on when I’ll write my first Jeff George column is Oct. 3. I’m playing the under if you must know."

****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That joke is so over-played Fatlock, seriously.

[The Bronco Rob]

And................the thread began to smell not unlike vinegar and water.

Bronco Rub



:D

[orange]

Why the **** would Fatty McButterpants have a problem with Cassel honoring his commitment to USC and staying on a championship team instead of transferring to some also ran for pt?

Because Competitors want to play, not warm the bench.

http://www.reindesigns.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/throwdamnballbandfull.jpg

[beach tribe]

Uhhh Gannon marinated on the bench before emerging.

And stop me if I'm wrong, but I hope they don't sign his ass this season. He's not gonna have that great of a season, and his price is coming down after it.

I wouldn't even be negotiating with him right now. Give him his 15 mil, and see what he's got. Are we even above the Cap floor??

[orange]

Uhhh Gannon marinated on the bench before emerging.



Uhhh Gannon "emerged" when he got sick of riding the Chiefs' bench and went somewhere else where he would PLAY.

Unlike Cassel who's been content on the bench for eight years.

[EyePod]

I guess I don't really care about the $15 million. We've got the cap room, and it's not coming out of my pocket. :shrug:

Yeah, wait till the end of this year to see if he's really worth it. If he's not, we can get Colt McCoy in the draft and be set for years.

[morphius]

Uhhh Gannon marinated on the bench before emerging.

And stop me if I'm wrong, but I hope they don't sign his ass this season. He's not gonna have that great of a season, and his price is coming down after it.

I wouldn't even be negotiating with him right now. Give him his 15 mil, and see what he's got. Are we even above the Cap floor??
Some radio station said that we were near or below the cap floor, so signing him long term could actually hurt us.

[EyePod]

And yes, I really do think that Colt McCoy is going to be the best QB next year.

[milkman]

Uhhh Gannon "emerged" when he got sick of riding the Chiefs' bench and went somewhere else where he would PLAY.

Unlike Cassel who's been content on the bench for eight years.

Gannon rode the bench in Minnesota and Washington for a number of years, and was out of football for a season, before he rode the bench in KC.

[milkman]

Yeah, wait till the end of this year to see if he's really worth it. If he's not, we can get Colt McCoy in the draft and be set for years.

And yes, I really do think that Colt McCoy is going to be the best QB next year.

:banghead:

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Yeah, wait till the end of this year to see if he's really worth it. If he's not, we can get Colt McCoy in the draft and be set for years.

No.

[bobbything]

Whitlock complains that we're too far under the cap. Then he complains that we paid too much for Cassel. To me, the inordinate amount of money we're paying him doesn't hurt us at all. I suppose it could if we signed him to a long-term contract at that amount, but since we're not really spending it now, what difference does it make?

Whitlock? Anyone?

[Just Passin' By]

Because Competitors want to play, not warm the bench.

http://www.reindesigns.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/throwdamnballbandfull.jpg

I don't remember Brady transferring from Michigan when all the Drew Henson crap was going on.

[orange]

Gannon rode the bench in Minnesota and Washington for a number of years, and was out of football for a season, before he rode the bench in KC.

Sorry but Gannon spent two years with Minn. as the "developmental" QB everyone here seems to think is the way to go; he then was the STARTER for two years. When he was replaced in the starting lineup, he sought and got his release so he could go elsewhere. He was signed by the Redskins after surgery and got three games as a starter before they cut him.

What don't you get? Real players do not sit quietly content holding a clipboard. Dozens - maybe hundreds - of college players every year transfer to get a chance to play. Cassel didn't.

[orange]

I don't remember Brady transferring from Michigan when all the Drew Henson crap was going on.

Amazing that you would bring Brady up in this. Brady at Michigan was the anti-Cassel.

From his Wikipedia bio:

Brady played college football for and graduated cum laude from the University of Michigan. He was a backup his first two years while his teammate and future NFL quarterback Brian Griese led the Wolverines to a share of the national championship in 1997 in the Rose Bowl. When he enrolled at Michigan, Brady was seventh on the depth chart and had an intense struggle to get some playing time. At one point, Brady hired a sports psychologist to help him cope with frustration and anxiety and even considered transferring to Cal[7], frustrated by what seemed like a lack of opportunity.[8] Brady battled for the number one quarterback position with Drew Henson and ultimately started every game in the 1998 and 1999 seasons under Michigan head coach Lloyd Carr. During his first full year as starter, he set Michigan records for most pass attempts and completions in a season (214).[9] Brady was All-Big Ten (honorable mention) both seasons and team captain his senior year. The Wolverines won 20 of 25 games when he started and shared the Big Ten Conference title in 1998. Brady capped that season off with a win over Arkansas in the Citrus Bowl.[10] In the 1999 season, Brady led Michigan to an overtime win in the Orange Bowl over Alabama, throwing for 369 yards and four touchdowns.

[milkman]

Sorry but Gannon spent two years with Minn. as the "developmental" QB everyone here seems to think is the way to go; he then was the STARTER for two years. When he was replaced in the starting lineup, he sought and got his release so he could go elsewhere. He was signed by the Redskins after surgery and got three games as a starter before they cut him.

What don't you get? Real players do not sit quietly content holding a clipboard. Dozens - maybe hundreds - of college players every year transfer to get a chance to play. Cassel didn't.

He spent three years on the bench in Minnesota, and was ineffective as a starter for the following three years.

He was also ineffective as a stater, for 4 games in Washington.

He emerged after years of riding the bench and ineffective play.

I'm not defending Cassel.

I asked the same question.

Why wouldn't he transfer?

But to suggest that Gannon simply "emerged" after leaving KC for a chance to start is sheer unadulterated bull.

[wild1]

the media in this town is going to have a tough time getting used to this new regime.

they will try to create drama and strife for their own purposes but it isn't going to work. they will try to get information but the front office won't be pandering to the media anymore.

they won't be able to get stories just by ingratiating themselves to the Chiefs or by trying to stir the pot. the team is focusing on football and that is what they should do.

whitlock doesn't have an enemy he can use to write a column when he's bored now that Carl is gone.

he'll pick some player to antagonize all year. the new quarterback would be a handy foil.

[orange]

But to suggest that Gannon simply "emerged" after leaving KC for a chance to start is sheer unadulterated bull.

Well then, tell that to beach tribe, not me. It's his word. You'll notice I put quotes around it.

But it's also unadulterated bull to suggest Gannon was ever content as a backup. He kept on plugging, seeking new opportunities to play, even grousing on the sidelines (many will tell you he earned the starting job in KC), and finally found his spot.

[milkman]

Well then, tell that to beach tribe, not me. It's his word. You'll notice I put quotes around it.

But it's also unadulterated bull to suggest Gannon was ever content as a backup. He kept on plugging, seeking new opportunities to play, even grousing on the sidelines (many will tell you he earned the starting job in KC), and finally found his spot.

I shouldn't have put quotation marks around that word.

The point is, that Gannon flourished only after years and years of development.

He was journeyman QB who, after 11 years as an ieffective starter and bench warmer, landed in the right place with the right system.

[HemiEd]

Uhhh Gannon "emerged" when he got sick of riding the Chiefs' bench and went somewhere else where he would PLAY.

Unlike Cassel who's been content on the bench for eight years.

Wrong, Gannon led the Chiefs to 8 straight wins (iirc, maybe more), while Elvis was injurred. Then Marty played Elvis in the playoffs, and as a Bronco fan, you should be very happy about that.

[orange]

Wrong, Gannon led the Chiefs to 8 straight wins (iirc, maybe more), while Elvis was injurred. Then Marty played Elvis in the playoffs, and as a Bronco fan, you should be very happy about that.

"Wrong" you say?

(many will tell you he earned the starting job in KC)

I believe I already addressed that.

[Just Passin' By]

Amazing that you would bring Brady up in this. Brady at Michigan was the anti-Cassel.

From his Wikipedia bio:

Brady played college football for and graduated cum laude from the University of Michigan. He was a backup his first two years while his teammate and future NFL quarterback Brian Griese led the Wolverines to a share of the national championship in 1997 in the Rose Bowl. When he enrolled at Michigan, Brady was seventh on the depth chart and had an intense struggle to get some playing time. At one point, Brady hired a sports psychologist to help him cope with frustration and anxiety and even considered transferring to Cal[7], frustrated by what seemed like a lack of opportunity.[8] Brady battled for the number one quarterback position with Drew Henson and ultimately started every game in the 1998 and 1999 seasons under Michigan head coach Lloyd Carr. During his first full year as starter, he set Michigan records for most pass attempts and completions in a season (214).[9] Brady was All-Big Ten (honorable mention) both seasons and team captain his senior year. The Wolverines won 20 of 25 games when he started and shared the Big Ten Conference title in 1998. Brady capped that season off with a win over Arkansas in the Citrus Bowl.[10] In the 1999 season, Brady led Michigan to an overtime win in the Orange Bowl over Alabama, throwing for 369 yards and four touchdowns.

No, Brady was not the "Anti-Cassel". Brady could have done what you say a competitor would want to do.... you know, quit competing and transfer somewhere easier. You might have noticed that in the very thing you posted:

At one point, Brady hired a sports psychologist to help him cope with frustration and anxiety and even considered transferring to Cal[7], frustrated by what seemed like a lack of opportunity.

[orange]

Two years on the bench + two years starting after competing and winning the job.

. .vs. .

One year on the bench + three more years on the bench after losing the job.


Yep, Brady was the anti-Cassel.

[HemiEd]

"Wrong" you say?



I believe I already addressed that.
You stated he emerged when he left, that is wrong. No way can you defend that statement or spin it. He emerged, when Grbac got hurt, end of story.
You stand corrected, and don't for one second pretend you wouldn't trade Kyle Orton for a pair of Cassel's soiled underwear.

[raybec 4]

I don't remember Brady transferring from Michigan when all the Drew Henson crap was going on.

That doesn't count.

[Just Passin' By]

Two years on the bench + two years starting after competing and winning the job.

. .vs. .

One year on the bench + three more years on the bench after losing the job.


Yep, Brady was the anti-Cassel.

Not in the context you were arguing. Again, Brady could have transferred elsewhere, but didn't. That was the point you made that I posted about. Let's not go moving the goalposts here.

[orange]

Not in the context you were arguing. Again, Brady could have transferred elsewhere, but didn't. That was the point you made that I posted about. Let's not go moving the goalposts here.

Yes, EXACTLY in the context I was arguing. Brady and Cassel both went to schools with established QBs and sat on the bench while those established QBs finished their careers. They both then got the opportunity to win the job. Brady won and stayed, Cassel lost and... stayed.

There was NO chance Cassel was going to be the starter over Leinart - he even tried out at other positions. He was content to be the caddy.

[orange]

I don't remember Brady transferring from Michigan when all the Drew Henson crap was going on.

That doesn't count.

Of course it doesn't count! Brady BEAT OUT Henson! He started every game! He didn't have to go anywhere for PT!

What the hell don't you get?

Brady = backup -> starter
Cassel = backup -> permanent benchwarmer

[orange]

You stated he emerged when he left, that is wrong. No way can you defend that statement or spin it. He emerged, when Grbac got hurt, end of story.
You stand corrected, and don't for one second pretend you wouldn't trade Kyle Orton for a pair of Cassel's soiled underwear.



I never stated that Gannon emerged at all.

I quoted beach tribe's inaccurate construction.

The point I was making was that Gannon LEFT THE CHIEFS because he didn't accept being a backup.

Now if you want to argue that his eight games off the bench for KC will be remembered over his MVP year with the Raiders by anyone who doesn't have an arrowhead tattooed on his belly, I can only pity you.


ROFL at wanting Cassel.

[Just Passin' By]

Of course it doesn't count! Brady BEAT OUT Henson! He started every game! He didn't have to go anywhere for PT!

What the hell don't you get?

Where "he stayed" is different from "he stayed". Maybe you could explain how staying and competing for the job is different from staying and competing for the job. See, other than you, nobody in the entire universe understands, so you'll be doing us all a favor. Each and every sentient being in the universe will owe you a debt of gratitude.

[KcFanInGA]

Or could it be that Cassel felt loyalty to the teams that selected him, and figured if he worked hard and stayed humble his time would come. I hope now is his time. He's earned it by staying prepared and ready to go when the time comes. The fact he didn't run from a situation is not always a bad thing. Just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

[orange]

Where "he stayed" is different from "he stayed". Maybe you could explain how staying and competing for the job is different from staying and competing for the job. See, other than you, nobody in the entire universe understands, so you'll be doing us all a favor. Each and every sentient being in the universe will owe you a debt of gratitude.

Everyone understands the difference - except you because you're being deliberately obtuse.

Brady WON THE JOB.
Cassel LOST THE JOB.

Brady got playing time.
Cassel got bench time.

Brady got the ball.
Cassel got the clipboard.

Any more questions?

[HemiEd]

I never stated that Gannon emerged at all.

I quoted beach tribe's inaccurate construction.

The point I was making was that Gannon LEFT THE CHIEFS because he didn't accept being a backup.

Now if you want to argue that his eight games off the bench for KC will be remembered over his MVP year with the Raiders by anyone who doesn't have an arrowhead tattooed on his belly, I can only pity you.


ROFL at wanting Cassel.


WTF?! Here is your exact quote: "Uhhh Gannon "emerged" when he got sick of riding the Chiefs' bench and went somewhere else where he would PLAY.

Unlike Cassel who's been content on the bench for eight years."

Emerged = beginning = the beginning was when he came off the bench at KC, is that really that hard, or do you just not comprehend the words you use?

You will be pining for Cassel, I have watched Kyle Orten try to beat out Rex Grossman up here for several years. You will day dream about Jake Plummer.

[milkman]

I never stated that Gannon emerged at all.

I quoted beach tribe's inaccurate construction.

The point I was making was that Gannon LEFT THE CHIEFS because he didn't accept being a backup.

Now if you want to argue that his eight games off the bench for KC will be remembered over his MVP year with the Raiders by anyone who doesn't have an arrowhead tattooed on his belly, I can only pity you.


ROFL at wanting Cassel.

So you're laughing at your kid Head Coach, right?

[orange]

Or could it be that Cassel felt loyalty to the teams that selected him, and figured if he worked hard and stayed humble his time would come. I hope now is his time. He's earned it by staying prepared and ready to go when the time comes. The fact he didn't run from a situation is not always a bad thing. Just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

I accept that. The question was originally put "what does Whitlock have against Cassel for not transferring?" I supplied the answer - Whitlock and many, many more see that as a red flag indicating Cassel isn't competitive.

As for Cassel's time...

He was the beneficiary of a perfect storm, the alignment of Bernard Pollard, Randy Moss, and Josh McDaniels. How many other players in any sport have ever exploded to the tune of $15 million dollars with no resume whatsoever? If that was his plan, he's not a QB, he's a psychic.

[orange]

So you're laughing at your kid Head Coach, right?

To the degree that he wanted Cassel, yes.

Of course, he didn't want him enough to actually trade for him - even at the low, low market price of half-a-second-rounder.

[orange]

WTF?! Here is your exact quote: "Uhhh Gannon "emerged" when he got sick of riding the Chiefs' bench and went somewhere else where he would PLAY.

Unlike Cassel who's been content on the bench for eight years."

Emerged = beginning = the beginning was when he came off the bench at KC, is that really that hard, or do you just not comprehend the words you use?

You will be pining for Cassel, I have watched Kyle Orten try to beat out Rex Grossman up here for several years. You will day dream about Jake Plummer.

"emerged" - in quotations = I'm using quoting the other guy's word but I wouldn't use that word myself. This is a standard construction in English writing. Maybe you missed that day at school.

As for the idea that Gannon "emerged" (there it is again) at KC - apparently not enough to keep the starting job over Grbac.

[Just Passin' By]

Everyone understands the difference - except you because you're being deliberately obtuse.

Brady WON THE JOB.
Cassel LOST THE JOB.

Brady got playing time.
Cassel got bench time.

Brady got the ball.
Cassel got the clipboard.

Any more questions?

Yes. Do you actually know anything about Cassel?

Because Competitors want to play, not warm the bench.

The guy was a pitcher on the USC baseball team and was actually drafted by the A's.

The guy played wherever he needed to in order to play and help the team. In 2001 alone:

He appeared in 7 games (Washington, Notre Dame, Arizona, Oregon State, California, UCLA and Utah) as a wide receiver and on special teams; he also played quarterback briefly at California. Overall in 2001, he was 1-of-2 (50.0%) for 5 yards passing, ran for 22 yards on 3 carries (7.3 avg.), caught a 12-yard pass and made a tackle. He did a little bit of everything at California, catching a 12-yard pass as a wide receiver, making a tackle on special teams and, in his first career action at quarterback, hitting 1-of-2 passes for 5 yards and gaining 20 yards on a run. He also gained 4 yards on a reverse at Notre Dame. He won USC's Co-Lifter Award.

http://usctrojans.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/cassel_matt00.html

This "transfer" issue is just idiotic. Brady thought about transferring while he was at Michigan. Also, even when Brady was a starter, Carr was platooning him with Henson.

I'm not being obtuse. You're simply making a piss poor argument. Carson Palmer seems to get what you do not:

WHAT OTHERS SAY: Former USC Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback Carson Palmer: "Matt is a perfect representative of the attitude that's needed to play on this team. He could have thrown it in at the beginning of 2001 camp, he could have quit. But he hung in there and started the Cal game at H-back."

To you, a sign of a competitor is to quit competing and to go elsewhere so you don't have to compete. To the vast majority of the world, quitters aren't considered competitors.

[orange]

Yes. Do you actually know anything about Cassel?



The guy was a pitcher on the USC baseball team and was actually drafted by the A's.

Cassel played one season of baseball for USC in 2004, he had an 0–1 record with 10 strikeouts and 4 walks, he played in 8 games and started 1. Cassel struck out in his only at bat in college. He also had 2 saves with a 9.35 ERA, and was selected by the Oakland Athletics in the 36th round of the 2004 MLB Draft

2004 - his last season at USC. He was a walkon - it's not like he was too busy playing football. Drafted in the 36th round for his athletic ability.

As for Carson Palmer - what do you expect him to say about a teammate?

The idea that transferring to a school where you will play is quitting - THAT'S idiotic.

[Just Passin' By]

[I]The idea that transferring to a school where you will play is quitting - THAT'S idiotic.

:spock:

You're kidding, right? I mean, you don't see that quitting your team to go somewhere else is quitting?

[orange]

To you, a sign of a competitor is to quit competing and to go elsewhere so you don't have to compete. To the vast majority of the world, quitters aren't considered competitors.


The idea that he stayed at USC to compete is a joke. He got what, 30 passes in four years?

To the vast majority of the world, someone who loses out getting a job should go get a different job, not hang around the company sweeping the floors and waiting for the first guy to die so he can re-apply.

[Just Passin' By]

The idea that he stayed at USC to compete is a joke. He got what, 30 passes in four years?

To the vast majority of the world, someone who loses out getting a job should go get a different job, not hang around the company sweeping the floors and waiting for the first guy to die so he can re-apply.

Ok, so you've never played sports in your life, right? I mean, you clearly have missed all the players on the benches of these sports, so you can't possibly have played.

P.S. When Brady lost out on the starting job in Michigan and New England, should he have just quit and started looking for another job?

[notorious]

Ah Hell. We have a one year deal to see what Cassel has. Reading debate between Brady and Cassel has lowered my already low IQ into the negative. Brady is a HOFer, Cassel is a flash in the pants SO FAR. Based on the history of similar situations with backups signing with other teams, I am not expecting much from Cassel.


PLEASE stop comparing the two. Brady went 16-0 with the team that Cassel filled in on. There is NO comparison between the two.

[orange]

Ah Hell. We have a one year deal to see what Cassel has. Reading debate between Brady and Cassel has lowered my already low IQ into the negative. Brady is a HOFer, Cassel is a flash in the pants SO FAR. Based on the history of similar situations with backups signing with other teams, I am not expecting much from Cassel.


PLEASE stop comparing the two. Brady went 16-0 with the team that Cassel filled in on. There is NO comparison between the two.

This.

By the way, I think you're short-changing yourself. You show signs of positive IQ. Maybe a resurgence.

[Just Passin' By]

Ah Hell. We have a one year deal to see what Cassel has. Reading debate between Brady and Cassel has lowered my already low IQ into the negative. Brady is a HOFer, Cassel is a flash in the pants SO FAR. Based on the history of similar situations with backups signing with other teams, I am not expecting much from Cassel.


PLEASE stop comparing the two. Brady went 16-0 with the team that Cassel filled in on. There is NO comparison between the two.

Nobody's comparing their on-the-field games. Well, I'm not at the moment, anyway.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Yeah, here's a little food for thought:

Guy sits on bench and does prep work for his chosen vocation for almost a decade.
Guy finally get's his shot, plays like a finely honed razor blade by the end of the season, and gains league-wide respect in the process.

That's some pretty wicked fucking A-Game for someone not taking hundreds of snaps since High School through College.
Let that shit sink-in and marinate, bitches.

Orton blows. Donks need to quit talking up something that doesn't exist. It's just pathetic.
Seriously; just...stop.

[notorious]

This.

By the way, I think you're short-changing yourself. You show signs of positive IQ. Maybe a resurgence.



Before I started posting on football message boards I probably had enough intelligence to design a perpetual motion machine, cure cancer, and finally fix the E.D. problem for aging males.

After the recent draft I can barely feed myself, I am infinately entertained by Sponge Bob, and I find myself staring at walls for hours.

What is next?!?!?! Am I going to start watching SOCCER?!?!

[notorious]

Nobody's comparing their on-the-field games. Well, I'm not at the moment, anyway.

Agreed.

[warpaint*]

your right, but the way he writes it is Joe Montana was just another Back up that we tried to convert to be a starter, which every one know is bullshit.

The point is no matter how high profile they are all qb's that weren't good enough to start for teams they were on at the time, no matter the reason. Which, he's right about. Ofcourse he completely ignores the fact that this is a completely different regime from the one that made all of those previous decisions.

Regardless, Pioli was in the organization and thought enough of Cassel to trade for him so I'm fine w/ it until the on field results state otherwise.

Having said that, Cassel has much to prove. My confidence in him is based solely on my confidence in Pioli's ability to evaluate talent, not Cassel's ability to perform for one season when he has Randy Moss and Wes Welker, et al to work with.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Yeah, here's a little food for thought:

Guy sits on bench and does prep work for his chosen vocation for almost a decade.
Guy finally get's his shot, plays like a finely honed razor blade by the end of the season, and gains league-wide respect in the process.

That's some pretty wicked ****ing A-Game for someone not taking hundreds of snaps since High School through College.
Let that shit sink-in and marinate, bitches.

Orton blows. Donks need to quit talking up something that doesn't exist. It's just pathetic.
Seriously; just...stop.

Exactly, people hold against him that they "only" went 11-5 without Brady. When you take into account that Cassel hadn't started a damn game in 8 years, the level he played at by the end of the season was pretty incredible.

[notorious]

I think New England's coaching combined with Brady's drive made Brady who he is today. It takes more then talent at QB to be good.

You have to have patient coaches who know how to teach a QB and allow him to grow through mistakes.


That is the key IMO.

[ModSocks]

Ok, so you've never played sports in your life, right? I mean, you clearly have missed all the players on the benches of these sports, so you can't possibly have played.

P.S. When Brady lost out on the starting job in Michigan and New England, should he have just quit and started looking for another job?

Didn't Brady have to split time with Chad Henne, even when he "Started"?

[Just Passin' By]

Didn't Brady have to split time with Chad Henne, even when he "Started"?

Drew Henson, not Chad Henne, but you are correct in the general notion of Brady having to platoon.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/578961/tom_bradys_college_years_at_michigan.html?cat=14

[ModSocks]

Drew Henson, not Chad Henne, but you are correct in the general notion of Brady having to platoon.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/578961/tom_bradys_college_years_at_michigan.html?cat=14

Ahh, that's right, Drew Henson. Thanks.

[RippedmyFlesh]

ROFL at wanting Cassel.[/quote]

Well your frickin coach didn't laugh.
Typical dumb ass bronco fan.
Lets hear about what a good "game manager" orton is.
You have a stupid young foolish coach and an owner who is Al davis II.
Have fun with that.
This one defies logic, but a source I really trust tells me it's true: The Broncos were willing to offer their own first-round pick (12th overall) to the Patriots for Cassel. Obviously, it was conditional upon Cutler being traded and Tampa Bay was the most likely destination, the Bucs willing to part with their first- and third-round picks.
But Belichick never embraced a trade with the Broncos, even though it was a head-scratcher on the value part (second-rounder versus a first-rounder). It suggests two or three speculative thoughts:


Belichick has always valued second-round picks (he now has three) and didn't want to be stuck at No. 12 financially for whatever reason;
Belichick had an agreement with Pioli all along and wouldn't break his word;
Belichick isn't about to help another former assistant.

The Broncos sensed resistance all along, which is why they held the Bucs, Lions, Vikings, etc., at arm's length and allows McDaniels his plausible deniability on trading Cutler (and logic supports his denial).

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-6-0/Why-would-Pats-turn-down-12th-pick-for-Cassel-.html

[orange]

... bunch of crap from ESPN ...



You realize that article you posted is quoting Chris "Half-Cocked" Mortensen?

How's coach Shanahan working out for you guys?

ROFL ROFL


p.s. If you guys post that McDaniels wanted Cassel a certain number of times, will it actually make him a good quarterback? Or maybe it will make YOU finally believe he's a good quarterback? What's the magic number - 1000 posts? 10,000? Not 15,000,000 I hope.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- orange - Still happily Casselless for 51 years and counting.

[RippedmyFlesh]

[quote=orange;5796912]You realize that article you posted is quoting Chris "Half-Cocked" Mortensen?

How's coach Shanahan working out for you guys?

ROFL ROFL


p.s. If you guys post that McDaniels wanted Cassel a certain number of times, will it actually make him a good quarterback? Or maybe it will make YOU finally believe he's a good quarterback? What's the magic number - 1000 posts? 10,000? Not 15,000,000 I hope.


Is cutler's word good enough for you?

Cutler, the face of this franchise, isn’t convinced that the Broncos aren’t still trying to trade him.

“I’m upset. I mean, I’m really shocked at this point,” Cutler told The Post. “I could see why they want Cassel. I don’t know if they think I can’t run the system or I don’t have the skills for it. Or if they don’t think they can sign me with my next contract. I just don’t know what it is. I’ve heard I’m still on the trading block.”




Cutler’s agent, Bus Cook, said his client had every right to be upset with the Broncos for even entertaining an offer for the Pro Bowl quarterback.

“Because that’s a vote of no confidence in the guy,” Cook told The Associated Press on Sunday. “I don’t care if you’re talking about trading him for Matt Cassel, Matt Ryan or Tom Brady. That’s a vote of no confidence in him, and that’s how Jay sees it and I would, too.

“I don’t know if they were actively seeking to trade Jay, but on the other hand, I don’t know that they were turning a deaf ear to potential offers, either.”

Even if the Broncos didn’t initiate the trade talks, Cook argued that Cutler has every right to be upset.

“What led people to believe that there’s a possibility that Jay Cutler could be traded? Somewhere somebody had to give the inclination that he’s on the block,” Cook said. “Why else would you call? Nobody’s going to call the Giants and ask for Eli. Nobody’s calling the Colts asking about Peyton. Brady? Come on. So, why call Denver and ask about Jay?

“And if they do call, why not say, ’That’s not for discussion. What else do you want?”’

A Broncos spokesman told The AP on Sunday that neither McDaniels, newly promoted general manager Brian Xanders nor team owner Pat Bowlen would have anything else to say publicly about the matter.

The organization felt it had adequately addressed the issue by talking to The Post and didn’t want to perpetuate the story, team spokesman Patrick Smyth said.

It’s certain however, to have long, long legs in this football-crazed state where John Elway won two Super Bowls in the 1990s and where Cutler raised eyebrows last season by comparing his arm strength to that of Elway in his prime.

It was all anybody wanted to debate on sports talk radio Sunday, not the free agency signing of seven-time Pro Bowl safety Brian Dawkins.


http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29457479/

[The Bronco Rob]

The matt cassel situation is nothing more than mere speculation...

A red herring at best....

the only interest with cassel was with his familiarity of the Amoeba Offense.

Cause lets face it...

With all the offesive weapons in Denver any QB will do at this point.

[orange]

Is cutler's word good enough for you?



"I was surprised they decided to trade me this soon," Cutler told Glazer in his first comments since the statement was released. "I didn't want to get traded. This wasn't me. (The Broncos) had been going back and forth saying things, wanting me to be their quarterback and then they didn't."

"I really didn't want this. I love Denver. I really like my teammates. I didn't want it to get this far."


Is Cutler's word good enough for me? - NO

[orange]

Don't even bother posting more - there are about a dozen 100+ post threads about the whole mess. It's all been said. I made my own anti-Cutler and anti-Cook views very clear.

And none of it makes Cassel any better than half-a-second-rounder.

[The Bronco Rob]

Don't even bother posting more - there are about a dozen 100+ post threads about the whole mess. It's all been said. I made my own anti-Cutler and anti-Cook views very clear.

And none of it makes Cassel any better than half-a-second-rounder.


Give any QB those weapons in NE..

I mean didn't that offense break every NFL record in 2007?

No probowlers in KC on offense..

I can't decide..

Is cassel Scott Mitchell? Steve Bono? or Elvis Grabc?

caessel is going get punished behind that line...

In fact I bet by week 7 Tyler Thigpen or whoever the backup is
will be starting....

[Just Passin' By]

Give any QB those weapons in NE..

I mean didn't that offense break every NFL record in 2007?

No probowlers in KC on offense..

I can't decide..

Is cassel Scott Mitchell? Steve Bono? or Elvis Grabc?

caessel is going get punished behind that line...

In fact I bet by week 7 Tyler Thigpen or whoever the backup is
will be starting....

This is a moronic argument coming from a team who's fans tried to claim that they had one of the very best offenses in the NFL. After all, one could just swap Cassel's name for Cutler and make the same argument:

Given those weapons in Denver....

[The Bronco Rob]

This is a moronic argument coming from a team who's fans tried to claim that they had one of the very best offenses in the NFL. After all, one could just swap Cassel's name for Cutler and make the same argument:

Given those weapons in Denver....


The 2008 Denver Broncos had the NFLs 2nd Ranked offense.

That feat acomplished with a commity of seven different running backs.

Cassel has zero probowlers on offense..

Heck... on defense for that matter in kansas city.

cassel goes from driving a F-1 race car to a Yugo in less than a year.

[crazychiefsfan]

How many college back ups get drafted.... non that i know of

[Just Passin' By]

The 2008 Denver Broncos had the NFLs 2nd Ranked offense.

That feat acomplished with a commity of seven different running backs.

Cassel has zero probowlers on offense..

Heck... on defense for that matter in kansas city.

cassel goes from driving a F-1 race car to a Yugo in less than a year.

Again, substitute Cutler for Cassel. Are you really this stupid, or is it just part of the troll act?

[crazychiefsfan]

Heck... on defense for that matter in kansas city.

cassel goes from driving a F-1 race car to a Yugo in less than a year.

Hey Yoda was a good actor!!!!!! :p

[milkman]

Don't even bother posting more - there are about a dozen 100+ post threads about the whole mess. It's all been said. I made my own anti-Cutler and anti-Cook views very clear.

And none of it makes Cassel any better than half-a-second-rounder.

I am not arguing that Cassel is going to be a great QB.

I was opposed to the trade that brought him here and hoped for a different QB.

However, regardless of the compensation that your dumbass HC was willing to give up for Cassel, he was willing to give up Cutler to get him.

The end result is that the Chiefs ended up with the QB he wanted, he lost Cutler, ended up with a sorry excuse for a game manager.

You guys may not want to admit it, but the fact is, you are fucked at QB, and your 2nd ranked offense is going to suffer.

[Hammock Parties]

I'm getting really tired of Cassel being dismissed just because he played with Moss and Welker.

The guy can play, period.

[The Bronco Rob]

Again, substitute Cutler for Cassel. Are you really this stupid, or is it just part of the troll act?


Hey..

It's not my fault that the cheefs paid 15 million dollars for a guy who didn't even start in college.

Seriously the cheefs offensive cupboard is bare...

Do you expect cassel to carry the offense..

Do you think he is even capable?

[The Bronco Rob]

I'm getting really tired of Cassel being dismissed just because he played with Moss and Welker.

The guy can play, period.


The NFL has seen many a "one season wonder"...

Not to mention that the team cassel played for went undefeated in the regular season the year before....

[Just Passin' By]

Hey..

It's not my fault that the cheefs paid 15 million dollars for a guy who didn't even start in college.

Seriously the cheefs offensive cupboard is bare...

Do you expect cassel to carry the offense..

Do you think he is even capable?

Man, I'm not even a Chiefs fan. My point is simply about the Grade "A" manure you're spreading about Cassel and the offense he was in. Broncos fans are pimping the Marshall/Royal/etc. combo as among the very best in the league, but you weren't claiming Cutler was a product of his supporting cast.

I don't mind trolls, but you suck at it. Frankly, while I oppose banning people because they are critical of the team, I have no problem banning people who are incompetent in their trolling attempts, and you fit that description.

[The Bronco Rob]

Man, I'm not even a Chiefs fan. My point is simply about the Grade "A" manure you're spreading about Cassel and the offense he was in. Broncos fans are pimping the Marshall/Royal/etc. combo as among the very best in the league, but you weren't claiming Cutler was a product of his supporting cast.

I don't mind trolls, but you suck at it. Frankly, while I oppose banning people because they are critical of the team, I have no problem banning people who are incompetent in their trolling attempts, and you fit that description.


What on earth does Cutler have to do with cassel?

cassel played on a team that went 18-0 the season before & went to the Superbowl...

The Broncos did have the 2nd ranked offense in the NFL last season...

What don't you understand?

[Kyle DeLexus]

Hey..

It's not my fault that the cheefs paid 15 million dollars for a guy who didn't even start in college.

Seriously the cheefs offensive cupboard is bare...

Do you expect cassel to carry the offense..

Do you think he is even capable?

Did anyone say we were going to win the Superbowl next season? Our team needs work and we know that, but I think we are on the right track.

[orange]

How many college back ups get drafted.... non that i know of

Cassel has great measurables and he had a huge workout.

Again, substitute Cutler for Cassel. Are you really this stupid, or is it just part of the troll act?

Not sure I get your point. The Bronco Rob is on record thinking Cutler is going to drop off in Chicago.

Hey Yoda was a good actor!!!!!! :p

I'm a little so-so on his acting; but damn that little troll is one hell of a martial artist!


However, regardless of the compensation that your dumbass HC was willing to give up for Cassel, he was willing to give up Cutler to get him.



... him and other picks/players; ALMOST willing that is.

As for being a dumbass - if he had gone through with it, I would happily agree that he is a one. But he didn't go through with it.

He certainly had no reason to believe talking about a trade would end up the way it did. The whole thing was orchestrated by Cutler/Bus Cook. They either wanted a trade or a new contract. Either that or Cutler is truly the sorest vagina on the planet.

As it is, the Broncos got a lot more for Cutler than any of the trade speculation, so IF they really weren't sold on him, perhaps things worked out for the best.

And as important as anything else, the Broncos DIDN'T get saddled with Matt "Half-a-Second" Cassel!

[The Bronco Rob]

Did anyone say we were going to win the Superbowl next season? Our team needs work and we know that, but I think we are on the right track.

Agreed...

The best think the cheefs did was to can Carl...

And after going 6-26 there is only one way to go..

[Just Passin' By]

What on earth does Cutler have to do with cassel?

cassel played on a team that went 18-0 the season before & went to the Superbowl...

The Broncos did have the 2nd ranked offense in the NFL last season...

What don't you understand?

I understand perfectly well, thank you. And, again, the Broncos were the #16 offense in the NFL last year.

[The Bronco Rob]

I understand perfectly well, thank you. And, again, the Broncos were the #16 offense in the NFL last year.


16th in "SCORING"

2nd in TOTAL offense...

my word do the math

[orange]

16th in "SCORING"

2nd in TOTAL offense...

my word do the math


It's not math, it's lying with statistics. The only statistics that matter are the ones that advance your point.

For example: when Cutler was a Bronco (i.e. bad, here) they had the #16 offense. When Cutler is not a Bronco (i.e. good, here) he carried the #2 offense.

See how easy it is?

[Just Passin' By]

16th in "SCORING"

2nd in TOTAL offense...

my word do the math

I did. TOTAL offense means just about nothing. Scoring, on the other hand, matters. Denver was a middle of the pack offense last year.

[Just Passin' By]

It's not math, it's lying with statistics. The only statistics that matter are the ones that advance your point.

For example: when Cutler was a Bronco (i.e. bad, here) they had the #16 offense. When Cutler is not a Bronco (i.e. good, here) he carried the #2 offense.

See how easy it is?

The last time I checked, games were won and lost based upon points scored, not yards gained. Again.... I'm not a Chiefs fan. I don't care what ranking Denver had. The only ranking that really mattered by the end of the season was the "Not in the playoffs" ranking. However, they were the #16 offense last season.

[milkman]

... him and other picks/players; ALMOST willing that is.

No, willing.

The fact that things didn't work out in the trade only means that he was willing but not able.

And as important as anything else, the Broncos DIDN'T get saddled with Matt "Half-a-Second" Cassel!

And equally as important, you did get saddled with a guy that barely beat out Rex Grossman for the job in Chicago.

I was pissed when Pioli traded for Cassel, but that was nothing to the meltdown that you would have seen from me if he had tradeed for Orton.

You guys are ****ed.

[The Bronco Rob]

It's not math, it's lying with statistics. The only statistics that matter are the ones that advance your point.

For example: when Cutler was a Bronco (i.e. bad, here) they had the #16 offense. When Cutler is not a Bronco (i.e. good, here) he carried the #2 offense.

See how easy it is?








:thumb:

[orange]

I'm getting really tired of Cassel being dismissed just because he played with Moss and Welker.

The guy can play, period.

Preparing to transfer your man-crush already? Fickle.

Some things to contemplate - is a floating, innaccurate deep ball that misses its target more beautiful when it's thrown by Matt Cassel or Damon Huard? Is a quarterback who cannot function lined up under center better when he's Matt Cassel or Tyler Thigpen? Is a $15 million guaranteed contract a better value when it's for Matt Cassel or, well, anyone not named Brady or Manning?

[orange]

Again.... I'm not a Chiefs fan.


No. You're Matt Cassel's wingman. That's obvious to everyone. Didn't you realize that?

[orange]

No, willing.

The fact that things didn't work out in the trade only means that he was willing but not able.



No, I simply don't believe that. You'll have to come up with a better source than Chris Mortensen or I'm never going to buy it.

I'm quite certain Belichick took the best offer he got - meaning the Broncos etc. didn't make an offer or it was less than the pick they got from KC. Plus, Cutler couldn't have been traded without Bowlen signing off, and he had not been told yet so it couldn't have been more than preliminary.



And equally as important, you did get saddled with a guy that barely beat out Rex Grossman for the job in Chicago.

I was pissed when Pioli traded for Cassel, but that was nothing to the meltdown that you would have seen from me if he had tradeed for Orton.

You guys are ****ed.

The biggest difference between Cassel and Orton is the price tag. $15 million and a pick. Orton costs next to nothing. If the Broncos have to go a different direction, they can do so with no picks lost. And the Chiefs may be the only team that wouldn't be handcuffed by Cassel's contract.

Most importantly, I fully believe McDaniels can get the most out of Orton like he did Cassel. How much that is remains to be seen.

[The Bronco Rob]

Team G Pts/G Yds/G PassYds/G RushYds/G 1stD/G 3rdM 3rdD%

1.) New Orleans Saints 16 28.9 410.7 311.1 99.6 22.1 97 48.5 10

2.) Denver Broncos 16 23.1 395.8 279.4 116.4 22.1 95 47.5 4 40.0
3.) Houston Texans 16 22.9 382.1 266.7 115.4 21.3 83 42.1 14

4.) Arizona Cardinals 16 26.7 365.8 292.1 73.6 20.5 83 41.9 8 50.0
5.) New England Patriots 16 25.6 365.4 223.1 142.4 22.3 96 43.2 17



hope this helps

[Kyle DeLexus]

No, I simply don't believe that. You'll have to come up with a better source than Chris Mortensen or I'm never going to buy it.

I'm quite certain Belichick took the best offer he got - meaning the Broncos etc. didn't make an offer or it was less than the pick they got from KC.

I'm a fan of the Belichick needed cap room right then and a three-team deal would take time and Cassel would need to be under contract to do that theory. So he took the concrete offer and not the proposed conditional offer.

[Just Passin' By]

No. You're Matt Cassel's wingman. That's obvious to everyone. Didn't you realize that?

Right, that must be where the "I don't know how Cassel will do in Kansas City" part comes in. See, there's a difference between admitting to not knowing how he'll do and claiming that he'll fail. By the end of last season, in the system he was in and with the players he was surrounded by, he was a top 10 QB in the league (Passer rating), despite his slow start. That will mean absolutely nothing come game 1 of the 2009 NFL season.

Now, his play last season may have been because teams hadn't gotten time and film enough to defend him. It may have been because his teammates were so talented. It may have been because he was being coached by the best coaching staff in the NFL. Or, it may be because he's a pretty good quarterback at this stage of his career.

Unlike many, I just don't claim to know one way or the other, and I try to look at both the positives and the negatives. For what it's worth, I think people on this site are being just as ridiculous in their assessment of Orton, and I've posted about that as well. So, I must be Orton's wingman, too.

Hopefully, they'll both throw some coin my way.

[milkman]

No, I simply don't believe that. You'll have to come up with a better source than Chris Mortensen or I'm never going to buy it.

In other words, what you're saying is "La, la,la la, I can't hear you".

I'm quite certain Belichick took the best offer he got - meaning the Broncos etc. didn't make an offer or it was less than the pick they got from KC. Plus, Cutler couldn't have been traded without Bowlen signing off, and he had not been told yet so it couldn't have been more than preliminary.

I'm quite certain that Bellichik took the only offer that he got that he could get the deal done right now.

Any offer he got from any other team would have required a deal between Cassel and the team he was being traded to before the deal could actually consumated.

He took the Chiefs offer because he didn't have to wait.

The biggest difference between Cassel and Orton is the price tag. $15 million and a pick. Orton costs next to nothing. If the Broncos have to go a different direction, they can do so with no picks lost. And the Chiefs may be the only team that wouldn't be handcuffed by Cassel's contract.

Most importantly, I fully believe McDaniels can get the most out of Orton like he did Cassel. How much that is remains to be seen.

The difference between Cassel and Orton is that Cassel does actually have some talent to work with, where Orton is a what you see, what you get player.

[Just Passin' By]

Team G Pts/G Yds/G PassYds/G RushYds/G 1stD/G 3rdM 3rdD%

1.) New Orleans Saints 16 28.9 410.7 311.1 99.6 22.1 97 48.5 10

2.) Denver Broncos 16 23.1 395.8 279.4 116.4 22.1 95 47.5 4 40.0
3.) Houston Texans 16 22.9 382.1 266.7 115.4 21.3 83 42.1 14

4.) Arizona Cardinals 16 26.7 365.8 292.1 73.6 20.5 83 41.9 8 50.0
5.) New England Patriots 16 25.6 365.4 223.1 142.4 22.3 96 43.2 17



hope this helps

14 Chicago Bears 23.4
14 Tennessee Titans 23.4
16 Denver Broncos 23.1

Hope this helps

[The Bronco Rob]

The biggest difference between Cassel and Orton is the price tag. $15 million and a pick. Orton costs next to nothing. If the Broncos have to go a different direction, they can do so with no picks lost. And the Chiefs may be the only team that wouldn't be handcuffed by Cassel's contract.

Most importantly, I fully believe McDaniels can get the most out of Orton like he did Cassel. How much that is remains to be seen.


Orton takes over the 2nd ranked offense in the NFL

cassel takes over the 26th ranked offense WHO BTW lost their best weapon in Tony Gonzalez...


hehheheheeee

[orange]

Right, that must be where the "I don't know how Cassel will do in Kansas City" part comes in. See, there's a difference between admitting to not knowing how he'll do and claiming that he'll fail. By the end of last season, in the system he was in and with the players he was surrounded by, he was a top 10 QB in the league (Passer rating), despite his slow start. That will mean absolutely nothing come game 1 of the 2009 NFL season.

Now, his play last season may have been because teams hadn't gotten time and film enough to defend him. It may have been because his teammates were so talented. It may have been because he was being coached by the best coaching staff in the NFL. Or, it may be because he's a pretty good quarterback at this stage of his career.

Unlike many, I just don't claim to know one way or the other, and I try to look at both the positives and the negatives. For what it's worth, I think people on this site are being just as ridiculous in their assessment of Orton, and I've posted about that as well. So, I must be Orton's wingman, too.

Hopefully, they'll both throw some coin my way.


This just means you're a bit more rational than Pioli Zombie as far as Cassel wingmen go - but you're still the one arguing here that Mattie was a super-competitor rolling out the blocking dummies and collecting dirty jerseys at USC for three years after losing his tryout.

[The Bronco Rob]

14 Chicago Bears 23.4
14 Tennessee Titans 23.4
16 Denver Broncos 23.1

Hope this helps


26.) Kansas City Cheefs


hope that helps

[milkman]

26.) Kansas City Cheefs


hope that helps

And, of course, QB play has nothing to do with how each offense fared.

[Just Passin' By]

This just means you're a bit more rational than Pioli Zombie as far as Cassel wingmen go - but you're still the one arguing here that Mattie was a super-competitor rolling out the blocking dummies and collecting dirty jerseys at USC for three years after losing his tryout.

Ok, because I don't agree with your notion of what competitors in college should do I'm Cassel's wingman. Brilliant!

Again, Brady didn't start in his first season in either Michigan or New England. Hell, he didn't start in year two at Michigan, either. Most players don't transfer. They stay and compete for the job they want.

[DTLB58]

Classic Whitlock all Gloom and Doom.

This guy is such a piece of Raiduhs

[Hammock Parties]

Some things to contemplate - is a floating, innaccurate deep ball that misses its target more beautiful when it's thrown by Matt Cassel or Damon Huard?

This is a rotten fucking comparison. First of all, Cassel is about a billion times more athletic than Huard. Second of all, Cassel has started one season. Of course his game isn't perfect.


Is a quarterback who cannot function lined up under center better when he's Matt Cassel or Tyler Thigpen?

Do you even watch Patriots games? Cassel's accuracy leaves Thigpen's completely in the dust. It's not even close.


Is a $15 million guaranteed contract a better value when it's for Matt Cassel or, well, anyone not named Brady or Manning?

Honestly, I don't care about money. I just don't. The Chiefs are loaded with cap room.

[SAUTO]

This is a rotten fucking comparison. First of all, Cassel is about a billion times more athletic than Huard. Second of all, Cassel has started one season. Of course his game isn't perfect.

.
first off this isnt pointed at you clay, just quoted your post because you talked about it.
one thing about cassel's long ball: most that were off were thrown to moss, watch the games, moss was VERY lackadaisical in route running in the middle part of the season. he didnt run all out on a lot of routes that ended up going his way, maybe the play wasnt designed to go his way, but it ended up that it did and he wasnt going all out. most of the off passes were actually overthrown, again, overthrown. that, to me, shows that the timing was off between the two. why? maybe it wasnt cassel's fault, we already know about moss' work ethic when things are down and if you said that the pats would go 11-5 WITHOUT brady last year most people would have laughed at you

[chiefzilla1501]

Orton takes over the 2nd ranked offense in the NFL

cassel takes over the 26th ranked offense WHO BTW lost their best weapon in Tony Gonzalez...


hehheheheeee

And again, it's hilarious that you think losing a TE is a big deal.

And yet you don't think it's a big deal that you lost an entire offensive coaching staff and a 4,500 yard passer.

The Chiefs upgraded their coaching staff and QB position. Those two are very hard to deny.

It will be very hard for McDaniels to live up to Shanahan, no matter how good he is. And it is very doubtful that Orton comes even remotely close to 4,500 yards.

But again... you're right. The Broncos' #2 offensive ranking had nothing to do with Shanahan or Cutler.

[Halfcan]

I actually liked this article-the cap room we have and the people we have got-just dont match. We won 2 fuggin games and lost to the Faders at home-what in hell are we saving money under Clarks matress for?????

Cassell will be running for his life this year. With us signing Zero talent to help him out and Not fixing the O line-it makes it look like they are setting him up (which would be retarded)-and I think that is what JWit is saying.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

What on earth does Cutler have to do with cassel?

cassel played on a team that went 18-0 the season before & went to the Superbowl...

The Broncos did have the 2nd ranked offense in the NFL last season...

What don't you understand?

The Pats put up that record with one of the best players and highest level of play and execution in NFL history. It would have been difficult for them to repeat that success even with Brady. To try and knock Cassel by basically saying he's not as good as Brady is pretty dumb. Pretty much every QB is going to fall short in that regard. Cassel hadn't started a game in 8 years, but in the 2nd half of the season he was playing at a pretty high level himself.

The Broncos had the 2nd ranked offese last season....with Jay Cutler running the show and helping keep his team in games. Ole neckbeard is not capable of doing that even with all those "weapons". A game manager without the luxury of a defense is not going to be pretty.

[Halfcan]

by screwing the Cheatin Donks out of Cutler-the Cassel trade was worth it

[TEX]

Had we known in February that Cassel would cost $15 million and a second-round pick for one season of play, would we still regard his acquisition as a wise move?

IMO, he's right about this point. When we made the trade, this concerned me as well. I assumed that a long term deal was in the works. Our offense is gonna BLOW so if I were in his shoes, I'd want BIG BUCKS too.

[TEX]

by screwing the Cheatin Donks out of Cutler-the Cassel trade was worth it

You know - you're right! I never thought of it that way. :LOL:

[Halfcan]

You know - you're right! I never thought of it that way. :LOL:

that is twice a year we don't have to hear comparisons about Cuntler and Horseface.

[Mecca]

Ah Hell. We have a one year deal to see what Cassel has. Reading debate between Brady and Cassel has lowered my already low IQ into the negative. Brady is a HOFer, Cassel is a flash in the pants SO FAR. Based on the history of similar situations with backups signing with other teams, I am not expecting much from Cassel.


PLEASE stop comparing the two. Brady went 16-0 with the team that Cassel filled in on. There is NO comparison between the two.

If that's really what you think of him we got ripped off because we gave up a 2nd round pick and also passed on a QB.

[Chiefaholic]

I swear that the collective IQ's of all the Bronco fans in this thread wouldn't equal that of a kid in Special Ed class. Are you REALLY that stupid, or just ignore the obvious in a weak attempt to stir up crap?

I don't think there's a Chief fan out there who believes Cassel will come in here next year tear up opposing defenses. We have multiple issues that need addressed which can't be addressed in one offseason. The lack of pass protection, combined with the lack of a recieving threat outside Bowe doesn't bode well for Cassel. If Matt can finish the season healthy and average stats, I'de be ecstatic. Give the guy better protection and at least one more legitimate offensive weapon to throw to, I believe he can be another Trent Green type of prospect.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

The matt cassel situation is nothing more than mere speculation...

A red herring at best....

the only interest with cassel was with his familiarity of the Amoeba Offense.

Cause lets face it...

With all the offesive weapons in Denver any QB will do at this point.

When you finally go back home to your hut on the Nile River, go swimming with an AIDS Crocodile, please.

Man, I'm not even a Chiefs fan.

Oh how lucky we are to get so many non-Chiefs fans on this board.:shake:

[JD10367]

Uhhh Gannon marinated on the bench before emerging.

And stop me if I'm wrong, but I hope they don't sign his ass this season. He's not gonna have that great of a season, and his price is coming down after it.

I wouldn't even be negotiating with him right now. Give him his 15 mil, and see what he's got. Are we even above the Cap floor??

This here.

Why would they even really want to sign him to a long-term contract for big money? See if he's the real deal. If he is, then he's worth more money. If he isn't, then you took the bath on this one season and he's gone. Isn't that better than signing him to a longer-term deal, and THEN finding out he's a sham, Mr. Whitlock? If the Chiefs needed the cap space, different story. The Pats needed the cap space, or else they would've kept Cassel themselves, IMO.

[Just Passin' By]

Oh how lucky we are to get so many non-Chiefs fans on this board.:shake:

Ehhh..... I think I've been pretty fair and objective about the Chiefs while I've been posting on this board.

[BarrySPAMAID]

I have absolutely ZERO concerns about Matt Cassel. Zero. Zip, nothing, Nada. Pioli likes him, therefore, I like him. Also 11 wins, and handling almost 50 sacks as a rookie looks pretty solid on paper too. PLUS the fact that he was coached by a superior system.

Same goes for Tyson Jackson, Alex Magee, Tamba Hali standing up on the outside, Glenn Dorsey playing a little end, Tank handling the middle. ZERO.

If I have one concern, its who plays fullback. Cox is not the guy. Battle is.

How's that for an entrance ROR?

[doomy3]

Ehhh..... I think I've been pretty fair and objective about the Chiefs while I've been posting on this board.

You have.

Don't worry about that douchebag.

[StcChief]

I guess Fatlock gave up on George ever becoming a Chiefs so time to move on.

[doomy3]

I have absolutely ZERO concerns about Matt Cassel. Zero. Zip, nothing, Nada. Pioli likes him, therefore, I like him. Also 11 wins, and handling almost 50 sacks as a rookie looks pretty solid on paper too. PLUS the fact that he was coached by a superior system.

Same goes for Tyson Jackson, Alex Magee, Tamba Hali standing up on the outside, Glenn Dorsey playing a little end, Tank handling the middle. ZERO.

If I have one concern, its who plays fullback. Cox is not the guy. Battle is.

How's that for an entrance ROR?


You're not concerned about any of those things, but you're concerned about the fullback position? ROFL

[BarrySPAMAID]

You're not concerned about any of those things, but you're concerned about the fullback position? ROFL

I know? Isnt that crazy? I am still a new user, so there are restrictions to my profile, so when I can illustrate WHY I think Batlle should be the fullback, I will.

Having said that, Matt Cassel will be just fine. Jot that one down.

[doomy3]

I know? Isnt that crazy? I am still a new user, so there are restrictions to my profile, so when I can illustrate WHY I think Batlle should be the fullback, I will.

Having said that, Matt Cassel will be just fine. Jot that one down.

I agree that Cassel will be just fine. It strikes me as odd, however, that you are worried about the fullback position, a position that doesn't matter much, above all else.

I would say we have some pretty big needs at pass rush, Oline, and having another playmaker or 2 on offense.

[MoreLemonPledge]

I guess Fatlock gave up on George ever becoming a Chiefs so time to move on.

No, unfortunately. Mentioned him in his last column.

[BarrySPAMAID]

I agree that Cassel will be just fine. It strikes me as odd, however, that you are worried about the fullback position, a position that doesn't matter much, above all else.

I would say we have some pretty big needs at pass rush, Oline, and having another playmaker or 2 on offense.

I agree that there are plenty of needs. I bring up the fullback position because I think it IS an important position. Having another playmaker or two on offense is still a possibiltiy. It is May, and I really doubt this current roster is the one we will see on opening day. I do see Jackie Battle as one of those playmakers too though.

[Just Passin' By]

I agree that there are plenty of needs. I bring up the fullback position because I think it IS an important position. Having another playmaker or two on offense is still a possibiltiy. It is May, and I really doubt this current roster is the one we will see on opening day. I do see Jackie Battle as one of those playmakers too though.

You might want to take a look at the use of the fullback in both New England and Arizona last season. Hell, as of right now, New England doesn't even have a fullback listed on the roster.

[BarrySPAMAID]

You might want to take a look at the use of the fullback in both New England and Arizona last season. Hell, as of right now, New England doesn't even have a fullback listed on the roster.

ya, I see where your going with this. But we also have been lead to believe that this offense will be much different.

This will not be New England, or Arizona's offense. I really doubt Cassel throws as many passes this year. Haley knows he has to play to the strengths of this offense, and they are still trying to figure out what they have.

Again, If I wasnt restricted due to being a new member, I could illustrate my Jackie Battle arguement further with a couple of links. The kid has game, and size. He would be the greatest secret weapon a playcaller could want. My hope is that Haley see's this. I'm talking about a talented player, that can hit the seams. We seen him play in the Jets game, and he scored. Remember?

[Titty Meat]

The Packers didn't sign Aaron Rogers to a contract until the start of the season?

[milkman]

Ehhh..... I think I've been pretty fair and objective about the Chiefs while I've been posting on this board.

Don't mind RoR.

We like having other fans here to kick around.

:)

[milkman]

I know? Isnt that crazy? I am still a new user, so there are restrictions to my profile, so when I can illustrate WHY I think Batlle should be the fullback, I will.

Having said that, Matt Cassel will be just fine. Jot that one down.

Can't wait.

You'll get the full milkman rant about the stupidity of your posts for a change.

[DeezNutz]

I agree that there are plenty of needs. I bring up the fullback position because I think it IS an important position. Having another playmaker or two on offense is still a possibiltiy. It is May, and I really doubt this current roster is the one we will see on opening day. I do see Jackie Battle as one of those playmakers too though.

Fullback and playmaker, huh...

[BarrySPAMAID]

Fullback and playmaker, huh...

ROFL

Ok, actually, I am laughing now...

Ahem....

Tony Richardson? Carry On.

[Titty Meat]

lol Jackie Battle a playmaker. On the Scout Team?

[DeezNutz]

ROFL

Ok, actually, I am laughing now...

Ahem....

Tony Richardson? Carry On.

True.

If we'd only had another TE or OG, he really would have been able to shine.

[BarrySPAMAID]

lol Jackie Battle a playmaker. On the Scout Team?

This was one Herms BIGGEST flaws that was not spoken about much as far as I'm concerned. This kid needs to be on the field.

Jackie can play.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Fullback and playmaker, huh...

Battle will revolutionize the NFL before Tebow.

[DeezNutz]

Battle will revolutionize the NFL before Tebow.

With all the playmaking FB's coming out next year, Tebow really can't even consider a position switch.

[BarrySPAMAID]

True.

If we'd only had another TE or OG, he really would have been able to shine.

We do, Brad Cottam is going to do great. ( In a different role ), and I look for Barry Richardson to step up and play RG , that may be crazy, but it's what Im hoping.


He just needs a chance. I think he'd be a great third down back too.

[Nightfyre]

I can't comprehend the level of justification going on by bronco fans in this thread. Further, Bronco rob is far and away the most retarded half-assed troll I have ever seen.
1) The broncos traded an arguably top 5 qb who has already shown that he is a franchise qb. And the scary thing was, he hasn't even come close to touching his ceiling and he's super young. All because MickeyD had a mancrush on cassel. So, the Broncos traded arguably the highest potential impact player in the draft for a first and two seconds. No matter how you cut it, that is shit management.

2) These fans deflect by pointing at the chiefs' inadequacies, which is good because it takes the conversation off the biggest bonehead personnel move since the ricky williams fiasco. Well, we're not deluded. We know our team sucks. Our team sucking is not justification for the broncos evident complete mismanagement. Sorry. We didn't just trade away a winning lottery ticket for three powerball tickets and a coke.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BarrySPAMAID]

I call it a DONKEYPUNCH. In it's best form.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

You might want to take a look at the use of the fullback in both New England and Arizona last season. Hell, as of right now, New England doesn't even have a fullback listed on the roster.

Who needs a two back set when you can put 8 fucking receivers on the field and throw, throw, THROW ALL DAY!:rolleyes:
God I hate this era of Offense in the NFL!:mad:

Battle will revolutionize the NFL before Tebow.

ROFLNiiiiice!

[T-post Tom]

Because Competitors want to play, not warm the bench.

Seems to me that Dungver fans have their own qb issues to worry about.

Competitor?

Matt Cassel
Games Played 16
Passing YDS 3693
Completion % 63.4
TDs 21
INTs 11
QB RATING 89.4

Kyle Orton
Games Played 15
Passing YDS 2972
Completion % 58.5
TDs 18
INTs 12
QB RATING 79.6

[The Bronco Rob]

And again, it's hilarious that you think losing a TE is a big deal.And yet you don't think it's a big deal that you lost an entire offensive coaching staff and a 4,500 yard passer.
The Chiefs upgraded their coaching staff and QB position. Those two are very hard to deny.
It will be very hard for McDaniels to live up to Shanahan, no matter how good he is. And it is very doubtful that Orton comes even remotely close to 4,500 yards. But again... you're right. The Broncos' #2 offensive ranking had nothing to do with Shanahan or Cutler.


1.) Losing a TE is a big deal when he is the best player on the team.

2.) As far as the cheefs "upgrade".. when you go 6-26 and lose more game than the Detriot Lions over the last two seasons not a tough feat.

3.) The Broncos retained Offensive Line Coach Rick Dennison & Running Backs Coach Bobby Turner.. If you did your homework you'd know that..

4.) Yes Cutler is gone. All 5 starters on the O-line return, and there are even now more weapons on the offensive side of the ball. (via draft & FA)


I believe Mark Twain put it best when he said...

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."



.

[Spott]

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."


Yet here you are opening your mouth again.

[The Bronco Rob]

Seems to me that Dungver fans have their own qb issues to worry about.

Competitor?

Matt Cassel
Games Played 16
Passing YDS 3693
Completion % 63.4
TDs 21
INTs 11
QB RATING 89.4

Kyle Orton
Games Played 15
Passing YDS 2972
Completion % 58.5
TDs 18
INTs 12
QB RATING 79.6



My word you are sans a clue

cassel's recievers...

Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Ben Watson, Jabar Gaffney


Orton's recievers...

Mark Bradley, Devin Hester, Brandon Lloyd, Rashied Davis, Greg Olsen, Earl Bennett, Marty Booker, Kellen Davis, Desmond Clark


Not to mention the 2007 Patriots offense broke NFL records left & right.





good grief......

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Yet here you are opening your mouth again.

This.

[T-post Tom]

My word you are sans a clue

cassel's recievers...Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Ben Watson, Jabar Gaffney Orton's recievers...Mark Bradley, Devin Hester, Brandon Lloyd, Rashied Davis, Greg Olsen, Earl Bennett, Marty Booker, Kellen Davis, Desmond ClarkNot to mention the 2007 Patriots offense broke NFL records left & right.
good grief......

Obviously you are the one w/o a clue. Did you even watch a Patriot or Chicago game last year? If you did, you'd realize that Cassel is a better qb than Orton. Regardless of the supporting cast.

[The Bronco Rob]

Obviously you are the one w/o a clue. Did you even watch a Patriot or Chicago game last year? If you did, you'd realize that Cassel is a better qb than Orton. Regardless of the supporting cast.

Heh..I'd like to see Orton throw to Moss, Welker etc etc..

Oh wait!

He will be in Denver throwing to Marshall, Royal, Stokey, Gaffney, Scheffler

poor cassel...goes From the Penthouse (NE) to the Outhouse (KC)

[BarrySPAMAID]

Heh..I'd like to see Orton throw to Moss, Welker etc etc..

Oh wait!

He will be in Denver throwing to Marshall, Royal, Stokey, Gaffney, Scheffler

poor cassel...goes From the Penthouse (NE) to the Outhouse (KC)

Just remember, your new coach wanted Cassel. Scott Pioli served the Donkeypunch on that one. He got there first, and Now Cutler is gone. Good luck with Orton.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Just remember, your new coach wanted Cassel. Scott Pioli served the Donkeypunch on that one. He got there first, and Now Cutler is gone. Good luck with Orton.

No no, that's all "speculation" and "conjecture"! :rolleyes:ROFL

[chiefzilla1501]

1.) Losing a TE is a big deal when he is the best player on the team.
Nobody is denying that the Chiefs took a big step back by losing Gonzalez. You're denying that losing a QB and a HC and an offensive coordinator aren't a big deal.

2.) As far as the cheefs "upgrade".. when you go 6-26 and lose more game than the Detriot Lions over the last two seasons not a tough feat.
Do you hear anybody hear predicting that the Chiefs' offense is going to be awesome or that Cassel is a sure thing?

3.) The Broncos retained Offensive Line Coach Rick Dennison & Running Backs Coach Bobby Turner.. If you did your homework you'd know that..
Oooh.... sweet. Because they were the ones who did the gameplanning. I did do my homework. It's just that I don't give a shit about two ASSISTANT coaches who have little to do with playcalling. Mike Shanahan is known to be one of the top offensive minds in the game. If you think that keeping an offensive line and a RBs coach means jack shit, then you're a raging moron. There's a reason why head coaches and offensive coordinators make a shitload more money than the offensive line and RBs coach. But you're right. The Chiefs were just fine when they fired Vermeil and saunders, but kept their RBs, WRs, and Offensive line coach--that worked out great for them.


4.) Yes Cutler is gone. All 5 starters on the O-line return, and there are even now more weapons on the offensive side of the ball. (via draft & FA)
And they'll be running an ENTIRELY different scheme. The Chiefs also kept most of their entire offense in 2004 after Vermeil was fired--how did that turn out for them. The Rams kept most of their offensive players after Martz was fired for Leinihan. How did that turn out for them? The scheme makes a huge difference. And the QB is second most important.


I believe Mark Twain put it best when he said...

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."



.

Then why are you still talking? Mr. "Head Coaches/QBs/Offensive Coordinators have absolutely no impact on an offense" Rob?

[chiefzilla1501]

My word you are sans a clue

cassel's recievers...

Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Ben Watson, Jabar Gaffney


Orton's recievers...

Mark Bradley, Devin Hester, Brandon Lloyd, Rashied Davis, Greg Olsen, Earl Bennett, Marty Booker, Kellen Davis, Desmond Clark


Not to mention the 2007 Patriots offense broke NFL records left & right.





good grief......

And Rex Grossman took almost the same Bears team to the Super Bowl 2 years ago. You don't think the Bears' defense or special teams have anything to do with Orton's W/L record? He'll have better offensive weapons, but he'll need that if he's going to play behind the 31st ranked defense.

So since we are sans a clue, please tell me how such a lousy team made it to the Super Bowl just a few short years ago.

[The Bronco Rob]

Nobody is denying that the Chiefs took a big step back by losing Gonzalez. You're denying that losing a QB and a HC and an offensive coordinator aren't a big deal.
Do you hear anybody hear predicting that the Chiefs' offense is going to be awesome or that Cassel is a sure thing?
Oooh.... sweet. Because they were the ones who did the gameplanning. I did do my homework. It's just that I don't give a shit about two ASSISTANT coaches who have little to do with playcalling. Mike Shanahan is known to be one of the top offensive minds in the game. If you think that keeping an offensive line and a RBs coach means jack shit, then you're a raging moron. There's a reason why head coaches and offensive coordinators make a shitload more money than the offensive line and RBs coach. But you're right. The Chiefs were just fine when they fired Vermeil and saunders, but kept their RBs, WRs, and Offensive line coach--that worked out great for them.
And they'll be running an ENTIRELY different scheme. The Chiefs also kept most of their entire offense in 2004 after Vermeil was fired--how did that turn out for them. The Rams kept most of their offensive players after Martz was fired for Leinihan. How did that turn out for them? The scheme makes a huge difference. And the QB is second most important.
Then why are you still talking? Mr. "Head Coaches/QBs/Offensive Coordinators have absolutely no impact on an offense" Rob?



1.) it was 2006 Not 2004 ya mong....

2.) The cheefs offensive rise & demise was/is quite simple..
First you lost John Tait..
Then..Tony Richardson, Willie Roaf and finally Will Shields...
That's! What made that offense go...

3.) Bobby Turner mr. "absolutely no impact on an offense"

"Mike Shanahan always got a lot of kudos in the media for the ability to seemingly plug any running back into the offense and turn that player into a 1,000-yard rusher, but behind the scenes at the Broncos facility credit for that production trickled down to Turner.

Shanahan had a lot of respect for Turner's ability to get the running backs ready to play. Turner was one of only four coaches who survived all 14 seasons with Shanahan. The others were offensive coordinator Rick Dennison and strength coaches Rich Tuten and Greg Saporta. "




You have ALOT to learn about the NFL chiefzilla1501...

[Nightfyre]

You have ALOT to learn about the NFL chiefzilla1501...
Irony.

[salame]

http://www.prometheus6.org/files/jason_whitlock.jpg

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

http://www.prometheus6.org/files/jason_whitlock.jpg

"Goodnight, sweet riblet".

[orange]

"Goodnight, sweet racks".

FYP

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

http://www.prometheus6.org/files/jason_whitlock.jpg

"Slab-Daddy make ya' NAP! NAP!"
http://batzbatz.com/uploads/posts/2007-12/thumbs/1197112567_kriss-kross-jump-jump-00.20.73.jpg

[chiefzilla1501]

1) 2006, you're right
2) Of course losing those players led to some decline, but anybody who watched the offense in 2006 knows that the main reason for the offensive decline was poor playcalling. We went from an innovative offense, to a predictable run-run-pass sequence. Yes, the Chiefs lost Roaf in 2006, but they also managed to field a top 5 offense in 2005 when they lost Roaf for almost a half season. Regardless, you won't even get support from your fellow Broncos fans on this one. Does head coaching and playcalling matter? Of course it does. Why do you think head coach/coordinator search dominate the headlines while offensive line/RBs coach barely make the back page?
3) I'm not saying that an offensive line or RBs coach doesn't have any impact on an offense. I'm just telling you you're a moron for believing that losing your head coach and offensive coordinator is no big deal because you retained your offensive line and RBs coach stayed there. And it's hilarious that you quote that article as if it proves that Turner is this difference-making coach. Here's a great article for you:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4179/is_20060211/ai_n16162061/
Do you follow? It's an article that raves about Mike Solari. Local papers always overhype their own coaches and coaches will NEVER talk badly about their assistants. Do you think Shanahan was really going to say that Turner was a lousy coach?

Turner is a very good coach. I don't dispute that. But his job is to coach fundamentals, not to call plays. As the Chiefs learned with Mike Solari, it's a very big ****ing deal. And it's the reason why head coaches and offensive coordinators get paid a shitload more than offensive line and RB coaches.

So far, you have:
-Claimed that losing a TE is worse than losing a QB/Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator
-Claimed that losing a Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator is fine, because the team retained the Offensive Line/RBs coach
-Claimed that a #2 Offense is still the same offense, even without the QB/Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator
-Claimed that LTs are bigger difference makers than QBs
-Claimed that the earth is flat
...i'm not saying I know everything about football. But I know that you don't know as much as you claim you do.






1.) it was 2006 Not 2004 ya mong....

2.) The cheefs offensive rise & demise was/is quite simple..
First you lost John Tait..
Then..Tony Richardson, Willie Roaf and finally Will Shields...
That's! What made that offense go...

3.) Bobby Turner mr. "absolutely no impact on an offense"

"Mike Shanahan always got a lot of kudos in the media for the ability to seemingly plug any running back into the offense and turn that player into a 1,000-yard rusher, but behind the scenes at the Broncos facility credit for that production trickled down to Turner.

Shanahan had a lot of respect for Turner's ability to get the running backs ready to play. Turner was one of only four coaches who survived all 14 seasons with Shanahan. The others were offensive coordinator Rick Dennison and strength coaches Rich Tuten and Greg Saporta. "




You have ALOT to learn about the NFL chiefzilla1501...

[The Bronco Rob]

1.) it was 2006 Not 2004 ya mong....

2.) The cheefs offensive rise & demise was/is quite simple..
First you lost John Tait..
Then..Tony Richardson, Willie Roaf and finally Will Shields...
That's! What made that offense go...

3.) Bobby Turner mr. "absolutely no impact on an offense"

"Mike Shanahan always got a lot of kudos in the media for the ability to seemingly plug any running back into the offense and turn that player into a 1,000-yard rusher, but behind the scenes at the Broncos facility credit for that production trickled down to Turner.

Shanahan had a lot of respect for Turner's ability to get the running backs ready to play. Turner was one of only four coaches who survived all 14 seasons with Shanahan. The others were offensive coordinator Rick Dennison and strength coaches Rich Tuten and Greg Saporta. "




You have ALOT to learn about the NFL chiefzilla1501...




:evil:

[JD10367]

I've sort of lost track here. What was this thread about again? Is it Orton vs. Cutler? Or Cassel vs. Cutler? Or Cassel vs. Orton?

Cutler has more "natural physical talent" than Cassel or Orton. But, as far as being a QB, Cutler may or may not turn out to be a stud. Is he the next Elway or Peyton Manning? Or is he the next Favre? Or is he just another Jeff George? Time will tell. But judging from what I've seen so far of both his on-field play and his maturity level he can really go either way. I think Denver got a decent deal for him, and I think Orton might actually make them a better team than Cutler did. However, I also think Cassel has as much, if not more, "upside" as a QB as Orton does. If given a choice, I'd take Cassel.

So, to get Orton, the Broncos gave up a possible stud in Cutler, but they also got back some draft picks. To get Cassel, the Chiefs didn't have to give up a stud, but they did have to give up a 2nd-rounder and some cap space which, luckily, they can afford at the moment. I think both teams did okay.

And while I despise the Broncos, they'll probably challenge for the division again with San Diego. I would expect the Chiefs to make great strides, and easily leapfrog the Raiders. Actually, I expect the whole division to do a lot better than it did this past season, where no one even broke .500.

As for Denver... 2nd in yards but 16th in points shows they have potential, but lack discipline or finishing ability. It's not about what you do between the 20s, it's about points. They also finished 8-8 but managed to have a pathetic PF/PA disparity, thanks to getting blown out a bunch of times and winning some close ones. The Broncos got blown out by New England, Oakland (ROFLMFAO), lost to KC by two TDs, Carolina by 20... Denver has a lot of work to do.

If I had to call it right now, I'd say San Diego wins the division with 11-12 wins, Denver is a borderline playoff team with 9-10 wins, KC should improve greatly but that might only translate to 6-8 wins, and Oakland... Well, it's always good to have at least one team to make fun of...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I've sort of lost track here. What was this thread about again? Is it Orton vs. Cutler? Or Cassel vs. Cutler? Or Cassel vs. Orton?



At this point; Jimmy vs Timmy.

[BarrySPAMAID]

This thread is about how AWESOME it was that Scott Pioli served Pat Bowlen, and his new shiney coach in Josh McDaniels the BIGGEST Donkey punch of their professional lives in spoiling their little party. McDaniels wanted Cassel all along, you know it, and I know it. This thread is about a NEW ERA of DOMINATING the Donks. Write that shit down.

Now can someone tell me how long I have to go through this no avatar, no signature having excuse of a profile before I get any access?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

This thread is about how AWESOME it was that Scott Pioli served Pat Bowlen, and his new shiney coach in Josh McDaniels the BIGGEST Donkey punch of their professional lives in spoiling their little party. McDaniels wanted Cassel all along, you know it, and I know it. This thread is about a NEW ERA of DOMINATING the Donks. Write that shit down.

Now can someone tell me how long I have to go through this no avatar, no signature having excuse of a profile before I get any access?

Hush n00b! :D

It's in the guidelines. Like 30 days or some such.

[MoreLemonPledge]

At this point; Jimmy vs Timmy.

http://cdn2.myxer.com/tn/c/208449/big/?t=20080228144220

[The Bronco Rob]

This thread is about how AWESOME it was that Scott Pioli served Pat Bowlen, and his new shiney coach in Josh McDaniels the BIGGEST Donkey punch of their professional lives in spoiling their little party. McDaniels wanted Cassel all along, you know it, and I know it. This thread is about a NEW ERA of DOMINATING the Donks. Write that shit down.


Why not try a "NEW ERA of winning more than 6 games in two seasons..



just sayin' baby steps my friend....baby steps...

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Why not try a "NEW ERA of winning more than 6 games in two seasons..



just sayin' baby steps my friend....baby steps...

Herm is gone, that is more than just taking baby steps towards the ultimate goal.