Teicher: Chiefs adjust to new roles in new defense

[Tribal Warfare]

Chiefs adjust to new roles in new defense (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1228431.html)
By KENT BABB
The Kansas City Star

Turk McBride still feels himself inching toward the defensive line, home for so long, and the comfort his old position would bring. He’s adjusting now to being a full-time linebacker, a position he’s never played, and the Chiefs’ third-year player still has to remind himself at times that he no longer belongs on the line.

“I’ve been doing it for so, so, so long,” McBride said Monday. “I’m so used to putting my hand on the ground. It’s definitely going to take a while.”

McBride, Tamba Hali and Andy Studebaker officially are linebackers now, their positions changed from defensive end on the team’s roster. McBride said it’s a significant move for the players, but it’s also a shift for a team that drafted Hali in the first round four years ago with the thought that the former Penn State standout could be a force on the line. And as the Chiefs make the changes to help one of their most troublesome positions last year, the team is left still with a unit that faces loads of uncertainty before its linebacker situation is settled.

Hali at least played linebacker in college. McBride said that, other than a handful of situations, he hasn’t played enough of the position at any level to claim any real experience. Regardless, that’s his position now, and he knows that coaches won’t wait while he adjusts to a learning curve.

“Definitely right now,” McBride said, “I can’t say I’m a good linebacker. But the more repetitions I take, I think I should do well at it. I tell myself: You have to start thinking like a linebacker. I can’t think like a defensive lineman anymore.

“I thought last year I was becoming a good defensive lineman just by studying the game. But this year, being a linebacker, you have to know a lot more. The mental aspect, that’s the most tedious part.”

Chiefs coach Todd Haley, whose desire to shift to a 3-4 defensive front initiated these changes, said he has been encouraged by the new linebackers’ progress. He admitted that the move could be monumental for some players, some of whom were drafted to play specific roles within the 4-3 scheme, and that the physical challenges to adapting to linebacker are as taxing as the mental obstacles.

“It’s such a big change for a couple of those guys,” Haley said, “I don’t think you can judge them too quick. There’s nobody that we look at and say, ‘Ah, there’s no chance’ so far.”

Haley said he’s hopeful that all the affected players can make their transitions without many setbacks. He said he’s also confident that outside linebacker Mike Vrabel will attend this weekend’s minicamp, the Chiefs’ first mandatory workouts. Vrabel hasn’t attended any of the voluntary practices, and he wasn’t there during Monday morning’s session. Neither was Pro Bowl guard Brian Waters, who has asked out of Kansas City. Running back Larry Johnson attended and participated after missing the last session open to reporters.

But as the Chiefs’ linebackers move forward, they’re trying to get a feel for the new scheme and for the new faces surrounding them. Of the four men who played first-team linebacker Monday — Hali and Monty Beisel on the outside, Derrick Johnson and Zach Thomas on the inside — only Johnson played linebacker for the Chiefs last year.

Johnson is undergoing his own significant transition, the fifth-year player having never been part of a 3-4 unit. Johnson said it fits his skills and allows him to improvise, a kind of freedom he pleaded with former coordinator Gunther Cunningham for but rarely was granted. Johnson said he’s confident that 2009 will finally be the season he lives up to expectations the Chiefs had when they drafted him in the first round in 2005.

“It’s setting me up personally to have a breakout season,” Johnson said. “I’m all-in with it.”

He said it helps that Thomas is in his 14th year and has plenty of experience in the 3-4. Haley said Johnson has been following Thomas around, learning from the veteran about conditioning and approach as it relates to all the change that has been circling the past five months. Haley said it’s clear that Thomas and Johnson have established chemistry, and that’s good for a group in transition. And it doesn’t hurt Johnson that his new mentor said Monday that, of all the players having to adjust to new surroundings, Johnson stands to benefit most.

“This is going to be his best scheme,” Thomas said. “It’s definitely weakside linebacker-friendly. It can exploit the talent that he has. Everybody knows how talented and fast he is. If he gets this down where he’s not thinking, just rolling around and just having fun and he knows what to do, he’ll be a great player in this scheme.”

Meanwhile, players and coaches alike are waiting to see how this year’s group of linebackers, unproven as some of them are, adjusts to their new responsibilities. No one is suggesting it’ll be easy, and Thomas admitted it’s a good thing the Chiefs started this project early.

Thomas said he’s confident, Johnson said he’s eager, and McBride said he’s hopeful. McBride says he already likes that he can see the entire field from the standing position of linebacker, and he says he thinks the shift will be good for him — eventually. And if the Chiefs’ experiment works, Johnson said, no one will remember all the growing pains that Kansas City’s linebackers endured in May and June.

“You’ve got to win,” Johnson said. “If we win, everything will look good.”

@ Go to KansasCity.com for a photo gallery and video of coach Todd Haley talking about the linebackers.

[Mr. Arrowhead]

Mcbride at LB is going to fail IMO

[DeezNutz]

Hali and McBride at LB?

http://rlv.zcache.com/lol_hat-p148085852243483609qz14_400.jpg

[Hammock Parties]

"I can’t say I’m a good football player."FYP, Turk.

[stlchiefs]

Turk doesn't sound too confident himself that this switch is going to work for him. It sounds like we're dooming any chance he has at succeeding with the Chiefs by doing this. I guess we'll see.

[Consistent1]

This 3-4 thing better work somehow after that draft. Those guys are not NFL linebackers. So, if Thomas and Vrabel retire next year, who is left besides DJ? What if he sucks in this system? They may well have fucked up by trying to force it this year. They could have at least took Curry (or Sanchez,etc.) , stayed 4-3 for awhile and rotated all those guys on the line to see who would fit. Different looks could have been used to experiment. Hopefully they are doing this at least somewhat. Curry would have fit well in both systems somewhere. I know the draft is over, but if this 3-4 flops hard this year, it ain't gonna look pretty. I don't think Hali or McBride can hack it at LB in a regular season game that other teams are actually trying to win.

[Just Passin' By]

This 3-4 thing better work somehow after that draft. Those guys are not NFL linebackers. So, if Thomas and Vrabel retire next year, who is left besides DJ? What if he sucks in this system? They may well have ****ed up by trying to force it this year. They could have at least took Curry (or Sanchez,etc.) , stayed 4-3 for awhile and rotated all those guys on the line to see who would fit. Different looks could have been used to experiment. Hopefully they are doing this at least somewhat. Curry would have fit well in both systems somewhere. I know the draft is over, but if this 3-4 flops hard this year, it ain't gonna look pretty. I don't think Hali or McBride can hack it at LB in a regular season game that other teams are actually trying to win.

The team won 2 games last season. When do you think would be a better time to switch defenses?

[Consistent1]

The team won 2 games last season. When do you think would be a better time to switch defenses?


True, but they are going to have to stick it out after those early picks. Where are they going to get bodies next year if all these linebackers suck, or retire?

[Just Passin' By]

True, but they are going to have to stick it out after those early picks. Where are they going to get bodies next year if all these linebackers suck, or retire?

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say that they will somehow be able to find 7-10 warm bodies to fill the positions next season.

[The Bad Guy]

The Chiefs need Boomer Grigsby. He'd really answer all these question marks on defense </consistent1>

[Consistent1]

The Chiefs need Boomer Grigsby. He'd really answer all these question marks on defense </consistent1>

Well, now that you mention it. Haha. He is going to play both ways in Houston. Count on it.

[stlchiefs]

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say that they will somehow be able to find 7-10 warm bodies to fill the positions next season.

Don't tell B. Waters that.

[Consistent1]

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say that they will somehow be able to find 7-10 warm bodies to fill the positions next season.


Well, "warm bodies" aren't going to help turn them into Pittsburgh or New England. Not to mention wasted picks from the past. Past is past now though, hope it works out. I think Green Bay has got a decent chance to see it work out fairly quickly, but who knows? Yes, I know they are already a better team. I just think that Haley, like McDaniels, better produce at least something to justify the "my way or the freakin highway and we are gonna change everything now, regardless if we have guys that will be worth a shit in three years in this scheme" arrogance.

[Buehler445]

This 3-4 thing better work somehow after that draft. Those guys are not NFL linebackers. So, if Thomas and Vrabel retire next year, who is left besides DJ? What if he sucks in this system? They may well have fucked up by trying to force it this year. They could have at least took Curry (or Sanchez,etc.) , stayed 4-3 for awhile and rotated all those guys on the line to see who would fit. Different looks could have been used to experiment. Hopefully they are doing this at least somewhat. Curry would have fit well in both systems somewhere. I know the draft is over, but if this 3-4 flops hard this year, it ain't gonna look pretty. I don't think Hali or McBride can hack it at LB in a regular season game that other teams are actually trying to win.

Valid concern. Very valid.

The Cheifs are in a tough spot. They just plain blew ass last year, but with all the draft focus there has been, there MUST be talent there. I'd hate to see them piss it away. But when you're 2-14, there isn't much choice but to try something else.

[DeezNutz]

Valid concern. Very valid.

The Cheifs are in a tough spot. They just plain blew ass last year, but with all the draft focus there has been, there MUST be talent there. I'd hate to see them piss it away. But when you're 2-14, there isn't much choice but to try something else.

I'd say that essentially shit-canning Hali and McBride, not to mention keeping coach Slap Dick, suggests that Pioli and co. don't believe there's much talent there.

[Just Passin' By]

Well, "warm bodies" aren't going to help turn them into Pittsburgh or New England. Not to mention wasted picks from the past. Past is past now though, hope it works out. I think Green Bay has got a decent chance to see it work out fairly quickly, but who knows? Yes, I know they are already a better team. I just think that Haley, like McDaniels, better produce at least something to justify the "my way or the freakin highway and we are gonna change everything now, regardless if we have guys that will be worth a shit in three years in this scheme" arrogance.

And I think that Scott Pioli couldn't possibly care much less about what you think if he actively tried to do so. Haley doesn't have to justify anything to you. Hunt, Pioli and Haley all know that it's going to take years to fix this mess. I'm sure that they also know that Thomas and Vrabel will almost certainly have retired before this team is able to become a consistent winner.

They're trying to build a team here, and that takes time when you're starting at the bottom of the barrel. If you want to see something produce lightning fast results, go microwave some popcorn.

[stlchiefs]

And I think that Scott Pioli couldn't possibly care much less about what you think if he actively tried to do so. Haley doesn't have to justify anything to you.

Sir I think you missed the point of this board. FYI people voice their opinions about the Chiefs and other BS. Settle down, nobody is demanding an answer from the front office, Yet.

[Just Passin' By]

Sir I think you missed the point of this board. FYI people voice their opinions about the Chiefs and other BS. Settle down, nobody is demanding an answer from the front office, Yet.

I understand the point of a board quite well. I was referring specifically to that poster's words:

I just think that Haley, like McDaniels, better produce at least something to justify the "my way or the freakin highway and we are gonna change everything now, regardless if we have guys that will be worth a shit in three years in this scheme" arrogance.

The poster may think that way, you may think that way, half the population of the United States may think that way. It doesn't matter to Pioli, because he couldn't care less what you think. He already knows Haley and hired him, so he's obviously fine with that "arrogance", be it real or merely perceived.

And, for the record, several people are already bitching about the current regime and whining that they aren't getting answers. Hell, one of them is your relatively famous and quite portly local sportswriter.

[SBK]

Turk and Hali at LB, I hope this is just a ploy to drop them before the season starts.

[Consistent1]

I understand the point of a board quite well. I was referring specifically to that poster's words:



The poster may think that way, you may think that way, half the population of the United States may think that way. It doesn't matter to Pioli, because he couldn't care less what you think. He already knows Haley and hired him, so he's obviously fine with that "arrogance", be it real or merely perceived.

And, for the record, several people are already bitching about the current regime and whining that they aren't getting answers. Hell, one of them is your relatively famous and quite portly local sportswriter.


The ex-Pats guys have not been setting the world on fire without a certain head coach. That is a fact.

[Just Passin' By]

The ex-Pats guys have not been setting the world on fire without a certain head coach. That is a fact.

Completely different circumstances. That's also a fact.

[Buehler445]

I'd say that essentially shit-canning Hali and McBride, not to mention keeping coach Slap Dick, suggests that Pioli and co. don't believe there's much talent there.

Hali
McBride
Tank
Dorsey

All first 3 day picks (the old way). Tank is losing the starting job to RON FUCKING EDWARDS, and Dorsey isn't made for being a space eater.

Hali has an outside shot of being an adequate OLB. McBride...Good fuck, it will be a miracle of GOD if he can be an OLB.

That is a shitton of first day talent that, on paper, doesn't look like it can do shit in a 3-4.

[Dante84]

Completely different circumstances. That's also a fact.

Coaches vs. Front office guys.

Completely different. You are correct, sir. People comparing the two are like apples and oranges.

[Just Passin' By]

Coaches vs. Front office guys.

Completely different. You are correct, sir. People comparing the two are like apples and oranges.

Yes, even staying with just that one difference, Dimitroff has certainly gotten the job done quite nicely in Atlanta thus far.

[RustShack]

Turk and Hali at LB, I hope this is just a ploy to drop them before the season starts.

If Hali drops that weight Gun made him put on he could be alright. Not a premier player by any means, but I think he could be solid piece. Turk is just screwed.

[ModSocks]

Hali
McBride
Tank
Dorsey

All first 3 day picks (the old way). Tank is losing the starting job to RON FUCKING EDWARDS, and Dorsey isn't made for being a space eater.

Hali has an outside shot of being an adequate OLB. Tank...Good fuck, it will be a miracle of GOD if he can be an OLB.

That is a shitton of first day talent that, on paper, doesn't look like it can do shit in a 3-4.

Tank will play nose and dorsey at de. You got it all wrong, turk is at olb
Posted via Mobile Device

[the Talking Can]

Turk sounds like a death row inmate.

[Buehler445]

Fuck me. It was late last night. I'll fix it.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Buehler445]

Tank will play nose and dorsey at de. You got it all wrong, turk is at olb
Posted via Mobile Device

Point still stands though, Dorsey was made to penetrate, Tank is starting behind Edwards, and I'd rate McBride's chances at OLB to be about -5%.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Chief Faithful]

I don't see Turk making the adjustment. I either hope I'm wrong or the team can trade him for value.

[Consistent1]

Yes, even staying with just that one difference, Dimitroff has certainly gotten the job done quite nicely in Atlanta thus far.

Sure, Atlanta is stacked now. Tony G didn't hurt them either. Where is the Mike Turner gonna come from for KC? Another receiving option? OL? Is it possible that Cassell will be better than Matt Ryan? I sure hope they are sitting on LJ to dump him and the contract at the last minute. If guys are going to say this team won two games and changes are needed, fine. If they traded Gonzalez (who I don't really care for), then LJ better see the damn street after all that hearing stuff to free up the possibility. He isn't gonna be shit by the time this team stands a chance. That is if he is now. It will be interesting to see what Waters does too. I didn't see guys wanting to fold up shop when Vick went out (yeah, he did suck at qb, whatever).
My point from the start is that if this team doesn't show some real progress on D, that draft is gonna look shaky. Two 3-4 ends picked high just to switch better fucking work out. Then again what 4 backers will they have behind them next year after taking an ass-pounding this year to "rebuild"? Who is the NT to revolve around? If Cassell struggles to adjust and Vrabel doesn't have his heart in it, those first 3 picks could end up looking mighty weak. Wasn't my chance to take though. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out. Pioli is Pioli. I hope he is doing right, but KC fans best quit making fun of Detriot right at this moment.

[BarrySPAMAID]

Hali
McBride
Tank
Dorsey

All first 3 day picks (the old way). Tank is losing the starting job to RON ****ING EDWARDS, and Dorsey isn't made for being a space eater.

Hali has an outside shot of being an adequate OLB. McBride...Good ****, it will be a miracle of GOD if he can be an OLB.

That is a shitton of first day talent that, on paper, doesn't look like it can do shit in a 3-4.


Tank Tyler will be your STARTING nose tackle, and I'm not trying to take anything away from Ron. He is a great player. This year is Tanks year, and he is gonna be the starter. Write that one down.



Sure, Atlanta is stacked now. Tony G didn't hurt them either. Where is the Mike Turner gonna come from for KC? Another receiving option? OL? Is it possible that Cassell will be better than Matt Ryan? I sure hope they are sitting on LJ to dump him and the contract at the last minute. If guys are going to say this team won two games and changes are needed, fine. If they traded Gonzalez (who I don't really care for), then LJ better see the damn street after all that hearing stuff to free up the possibility. He isn't gonna be shit by the time this team stands a chance. That is if he is now. It will be interesting to see what Waters does too. I didn't see guys wanting to fold up shop when Vick went out (yeah, he did suck at qb, whatever).
My point from the start is that if this team doesn't show some real progress on D, that draft is gonna look shaky. Two 3-4 ends picked high just to switch better ****ing work out. Then again what 4 backers will they have behind them next year after taking an ass-pounding this year to "rebuild"? Who is the NT to revolve around? If Cassell struggles to adjust and Vrabel doesn't have his heart in it, those first 3 picks could end up looking mighty weak. Wasn't my chance to take though. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out. Pioli is Pioli. I hope he is doing right, but KC fans best quit making fun of Detriot right at this moment.


This post is ALL OVER THE PLACE. I really am having a hard time understanding your diaper needing to be changed in so many areas?

Dude, you have homework, For real. The sky isnt falling. This defense will be fine.

[Direckshun]

Somebody tell me why Turk, the only player on this team before the draft who ACTUALLY HAD THE MEASURABLES TO PLAY 3-4 DEFENSIVE END, is NOT PLAYING THAT POSITION.

[Hammock Parties]

Somebody tell me why Turk, the only player on this team before the draft who ACTUALLY HAD THE MEASURABLES TO PLAY 3-4 DEFENSIVE END, is NOT PLAYING THAT POSITION.

Cus he really, really, REALLY sucks.

But someone here will defend him.

[BarrySPAMAID]

Cus he really, really, REALLY sucks.

But someone here will defend him.

Turk was having a decent season last year at end before he went down. I'm not going to defend him much, I will just say that I hope it works out for the kid. Making the transisiton he has to make will not be easy, but I think he can do it, and he was pretty bad off the line. Why not stand him up?

[Hammock Parties]

Turk was having a decent season last year at end before he went down

ROFL

It never fails.

[DeezNutz]

Turk was having a decent season last year at end before he went down.

He went down? In what context? NTTAWWT.

[Mr. Krab]

Mcbride at LB is going to fail IMO
It's stupid, i think they would be far better off having McBride add a little weight and just play a regular 3-4 DE.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I'd say that essentially shit-canning Hali and McBride, not to mention keeping coach Slap Dick, suggests that Pioli and co. don't believe there's much talent there.

LMAO

And I think that Scott Pioli couldn't possibly care much less about what you think if he actively tried to do so. Haley doesn't have to justify anything to you. Hunt, Pioli and Haley all know that it's going to take years to fix this mess. I'm sure that they also know that Thomas and Vrabel will almost certainly have retired before this team is able to become a consistent winner.

They're trying to build a team here, and that takes time when you're starting at the bottom of the barrel. If you want to see something produce lightning fast results, go microwave some popcorn.

Uh yes, there will be justification required; it comes with the job.:spock:

If Hali drops that weight Gun made him put on he could be alright. Not a premier player by any means, but I think he could be solid piece. Turk is just screwed.

I don't see "Pass Rush for the Ages" out of this setup. Yep, more good ol' "defensive defense"; containment over aggression, hold 'em rather than hurt 'em. Yay.

[BarrySPAMAID]

ROFL

It never fails.

I didnt say he was having a pro bowl season. I said he was having a decent season, which basically means he was wrapping up his tackles. I always thought he was bad about penalties.

Sometimes you just cant polish a turd. I understand.

[Just Passin' By]

Uh yes, there will be justification required; it comes with the job.:spock:

Haley will have to justify anything and everything he does to his Pioli and Hunt. He won't have to justify anything to a bunch of people on a message board. Pioli knew of Haley's personality before he hired him, so Consistent1's opinion of the guy's arrogance doesn't mean a damned thing, and his message board posting about it is certainly not going to be the cause of Haley getting in any sort of hot water with his front office.

[bdeg]

I don't see "Pass Rush for the Ages" out of this setup. Yep, more good ol' "defensive defense"; containment over aggression, hold 'em rather than hurt 'em. Yay.

so if you wanted to establish an aggressive defense what would you do differently?

we don't have the personnel for a "Pass Rush for the Ages" regardless of scheme

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

so if you wanted to establish an aggressive defense what would you do differently?

we don't have the personnel for a "Pass Rush for the Ages" regardless of scheme
My point exactly.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Haley will have to justify anything and everything he does to his Pioli and Hunt. He won't have to justify anything to a bunch of people on a message board. Pioli knew of Haley's personality before he hired him, so Consistent1's opinion of the guy's arrogance doesn't mean a damned thing, and his message board posting about it is certainly not going to be the cause of Haley getting in any sort of hot water with his front office.

I'm sorry, who buy's the tickets and the team swag again?

[Just Passin' By]

I'm sorry, who buy's the tickets and the team swag again?

So what? Pioli and Hunt are his superiors in the organization, not Raised On Riots and Consistent1.

[bdeg]

My point exactly.

so why the complaint?
Yep, more good ol' "defensive defense"; containment over aggression, hold 'em rather than hurt 'em. Yay.

[JD10367]

Sometimes you just cant polish a turd. I understand.

Actually, the Mythbusters proved you CAN polish a turd, and quite well.

I know Pioli and Haley love the 3-4 but, if you don't have the personnel, I'm not sure why they'd be forcing the issue. You do need some big fat talented guys up front for that.

On the other hand, as was stated, if you only won 2 games, what better time to try it? And if those "new" LBs got pushed around as D-linemen they're probably better suited for linebacker anyway, no?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

so why the complaint?

Observation.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

So what? Pioli and Hunt are his superiors in the organization, not Raised On Riots and Consistent1.

Wow, you understand corporate structure!

Who said anything about "inside the organization"?

[Just Passin' By]

Wow, you understand corporate structure!

Who said anything about "inside the organization"?

I did. Pretty much from my first response to Consistent1's assertion.

[bdeg]

Observation.
deflection.

why do you think they are aiming for a 'containment' defense that lacks aggression?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I did. Pretty much from my first response to Consistent1's assertion.

Well I didn't, and if you don't think empty seats and lack of revenue don't amount to anything, you might be a graduate from the Carl Peterson College of NFL Ass Hattery.

Thank you, that is all.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

deflection.

why do you think they are aiming for a 'containment' defense that lacks aggression?

This is a FUN merry-go-round!

Because they don't have OLB's. Oh they've got the position on paper, but not the talent.

[Just Passin' By]

Well I didn't, and if you don't think empty seats and lack of revenue don't amount to anything, you might be a graduate from the Carl Peterson College of NFL Ass Hattery.

Thank you, that is all.

What the hell does this have to do with Haley having to justify his "arrogance" to Consistent1?

[bdeg]

This is a FUN merry-go-round!

Because they don't have OLB's. Oh they've got the position on paper, but not the talent.
if it was a merry-go-round, it was because you were avoiding the question.

i just don't think that the fact that they don't have talent at a position means that they don't want talent at the position.

it takes more than a year to build a team, and i do expect an aggressive defense is the goal.

I don't see "Pass Rush for the Ages" out of this setup. Yep, more good ol' "defensive defense"; containment over aggression, hold 'em rather than hurt 'em. Yay.
it sounds like you don't, that instead you think the goal is like a 3-4 cover 2

if we don't have the players, why complain about the 'setup'

[CoMoChief]

I don't see how McBride doesn't easily transfer into a good 3-4 DE

I thought usually DE/DT tweeners are usually more well suited for a 3-4 DE???

Hali at OLB has FAIL written all over it. He doesn't have great speed off the line.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

THIS is Consistent 1' first post:

This 3-4 thing better work somehow after that draft. Those guys are not NFL linebackers. So, if Thomas and Vrabel retire next year, who is left besides DJ? What if he sucks in this system? They may well have fucked up by trying to force it this year. They could have at least took Curry (or Sanchez,etc.) , stayed 4-3 for awhile and rotated all those guys on the line to see who would fit. Different looks could have been used to experiment. Hopefully they are doing this at least somewhat. Curry would have fit well in both systems somewhere. I know the draft is over, but if this 3-4 flops hard this year, it ain't gonna look pretty. I don't think Hali or McBride can hack it at LB in a regular season game that other teams are actually trying to win.

What the hell does this have to do with Haley having to justify his "arrogance" to Consistent1?

There is NOTHING in his post about justifying jack shit to ANYONE.

YOU are the person who put that horseshit on the table. YOU.

[bdeg]

THIS is Consistent 1' first post:





There is NOTHING in his post about justifying jack shit to ANYONE.

YOU are the person who put that horseshit on the table. YOU.
so if it wasn't said in the first post... it wasn't said?

I just think that Haley, like McDaniels, better produce at least something to justify the "my way or the freakin highway and we are gonna change everything now, regardless if we have guys that will be worth a shit in three years in this scheme" arrogance.

that was what started it

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

if it was a merry-go-round, it was because you were avoiding the question.

i just don't think that the fact that they don't have talent at a position means that they don't want talent at the position.

it takes more than a year to build a team, and i do expect an aggressive defense is the goal.

REALLY?!?!? Ya' think?!?!?



if we don't have the players, why complain about the 'setup
Because I am a firm believer that conducting experiments with 1st and 2nd round draft picks who we're drafted because they played a specific role well in college, is a BUNCH OF HORSESHIT.
But I'm sure the light bulb will switch on, and off to the 'ship we go, right?!

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

so if it wasn't said in the first post... it wasn't said?



that was what started it

Originally Posted by Consistent1 http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5810053#post5810053)
I just think that Haley, like McDaniels, better produce at least something to justify the "my way or the freakin highway and we are gonna change everything now, regardless if we have guys that will be worth a shit in three years in this scheme" arrogance.


There is not a DAMNED THING wrong with that take.

[bdeg]

so the issue is with the switch more than how the 3-4 will be ran?

i think pioli and haley straight believe it's a superior scheme, and what better time to change it than now?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

so the issue is with the switch more than how the 3-4 will be ran?

i think pioli and haley straight believe it's a superior scheme, and what better time to change it than now?

No. I prefer the 3-4 with the rush coming from the outside.

What I do NOT prefer, is holding on to talent, regardless of round and money invested, that do..not..fit with this scheme!

[bdeg]

No. I prefer the 3-4 with the rush coming from the outside.

that's what I thought, and if we had an elite pass rusher who was stuck at ilb or something i would agree with you

as it stands, i fail to see what they should do differently(besides maybe McBride at de, which wouldn't fix the pass rush either)

[Coogs]

I don't see how McBride doesn't easily transfer into a good 3-4 DE

I thought usually DE/DT tweeners are usually more well suited for a 3-4 DE???

Hali at OLB has FAIL written all over it. He doesn't have great speed off the line.

Wasn't Calvin Pace a DE comming out of college? He is now playing OLB for the Jets, and did a fair job last season. I saw a couple of games on NFL Replay where he was in coverage down field and was doing an OK job for a 6-4, 270 pound fellow.

He in fact did convert in 2006. Here are his career stats...

http://www.nfl.com/players/calvinpace/profile?id=PAC125680

[Just Passin' By]

There is not a DAMNED THING wrong with that take.

Try reading the whole thing for context. He's starts at post #6. You'll love it.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Try reading the whole thing for context. He's starts at post #6. You'll love it.

I just did, and it was YOU who went hyper-tard in defense of Haoli.

But were sorry! WE'RE SORRY!

We won't question another move they make ever again, your Lordship! :rolleyes:

[Consistent1]

It may not have all came across perfectly, but I never said anything crazy. Thanks Raised. If guys like Haley, McDaniels and that fool in Cleveland can pull it of so be it. The attitude is fine IF you produce something. This KC roster better start getting the guys off the street now because I don't see it happening.

[Just Passin' By]

I just did, and it was YOU who went hyper-tard in defense of Haoli.

But were sorry! WE'RE SORRY!

We won't question another move they make ever again, your Lordship! :rolleyes:

I didn't go hyper in anything. If you know how Parcells/Belichick style places work, you'll understand my point. They don't give a rat's ass what some geeks on keyboards consider 'arrogant', and they are sure as hell not going to be worrying about winning enough games in year one to keep those geeks happy if that would interfere with their long range plans.

[Consistent1]

I didn't go hyper in anything. If you know how Parcells/Belichick style places work, you'll understand my point. They don't give a rat's ass what some geeks on keyboards consider 'arrogant', and they are sure as hell not going to be worrying about winning enough games in year one to keep those geeks happy if that would interfere with their long range plans.

Haley also doesn't have Fitz, Boldin and really a great all-time QB in Warner. He better get that offense to work first before trying to unleash some crazy D. DJ could well be the best pass rusher out of that LB crew given Vrabels age. Once again, does Vrabes even want to play here? He was gonna get dumped in NE regardless at some point.

[Chiefnj2]

I didn't go hyper in anything. If you know how Parcells/Belichick style places work, you'll understand my point. They don't give a rat's ass what some geeks on keyboards consider 'arrogant', and they are sure as hell not going to be worrying about winning enough games in year one to keep those geeks happy if that would interfere with their long range plans.

Do you think any team in the league cares about what a bunch of fans think on the internet? It has nothing whatsoever to do with Parcells/Belichick.

[Titty Meat]

Turk doesn't sound too confident himself that this switch is going to work for him. It sounds like we're dooming any chance he has at succeeding with the Chiefs by doing this. I guess we'll see.

He couldn't play D-end either.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Ellis is now available; make it happen.

[Titty Meat]

Do you want another old guy on the team? It'd be cool if he helps the defense and wins us 9 games. Thats right i'm cheering for a 9-7 season cause I want these young guys to win. Which is totally opposite of Herms philosphy.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Do you want another old guy on the team? It'd be cool if he helps the defense and wins us 9 games. Thats right i'm cheering for a 9-7 season cause I want these young guys to win. Which is totally opposite of Herms philosphy.

Go for the gusto! At least this guy plays the position and knows what the fuck he's doing at it, unlike Frick and Frack.

[Titty Meat]

Go for the gusto! At least this guy plays the position and knows what the **** he's doing at it, unlike Frick and Frack.

But Turk McBrdie was a 2nd round pick!

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Besides, the marketing potential with name brands such as Viagra, Dulcolax, and Metamucil is OFF THE CHARTS I TELL YOU!!!!

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

But Turk McBrdie was a 2nd round pick!

Yeah, but he sure as hell wasn't picked to play OLB. This isn't HS or College ball; everyone is good, everyone can bring it, and seeking "versatility" in high round picks is the one of the dumbest goddamned things ANY team can do.

[Titty Meat]

Yeah, but he sure as hell wasn't picked to play OLB. This isn't HS or College ball; everyone is good, everyone can bring it, and seeking "versatility" in high round picks is the one of the dumbest goddamned things ANY team can do.

Yea I bet the team was going to draft Eric Wright until Cleveland traded up to get him and Herm & Carl are morons they probably just picked a need instead of what was on there draft board. I don't think Mcbride was even that good in college? Also lets not forget who our D-cordinator is now.

[Coogs]

Go for the gusto! At least this guy plays the position and knows what the fuck he's doing at it, unlike Frick and Frack.

Again, Turk and Hali are not that much different size wise than Calvin Pace. And Pace did absolutely nothing at DE... a spot he was an All-American at in college. Since moving to an OLB spot in the 3-4, he has put up some pretty fair numbers. HOF numbers? NO. But pretty fair numbers. And Hali for sure, and maybe Turk, were better at DE than Pace in the NFL.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Yea I bet the team was going to draft Eric Wright until Cleveland traded up to get him and Herm & Carl are morons they probably just picked a need instead of what was on there draft board. I don't think Mcbride was even that good in college? Also lets not forget who our D-cordinator is now.

You know, I didn't follow the draft classes of 05, 06, or 07, but I still fail to see what in the merry, happy Hell Herm and Carl saw in Hali or McBride.
Or saw in a guy like Sackintosh.

I think they didn't know line for shit, and accidentally fell happily in to Big Al last year.

[Chiefnj2]

Pioli will be lucky if he can get one good and one serviceable player out of Hali, McBride, Tyler, Boone and Edwards.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Pioli will be lucky if he can get one good and one serviceable player out of Hali, McBride, Tyler, Boone and Edwards.

This.

You can be versatile with Corners and Safeties to a greater extent than you can with D-line and OLB's. Those are high-skill, specific positions that don't transition easily.
I'd go ahead and bite the bullet on Dorsey; get what's fair and get what you can. Use him to get some personnel suited for a 3-4, and quit trying to force it with players who will play hell trying to adjust.

[RedThat]

Turk McBride at Lber?

Thats gonna be just as fun as watching Rosanne Barr singing the national anthem.

[JD10367]

Turk McBride at Lber?

Thats gonna be just as fun as watching Rosanne Barr singing the national anthem.

Roseanne Barr at LBer? :shrug:

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Roseanne Barr at LBer? :shrug:

Results will unlikely vary.

[SAUTO]

Tank Tyler will be your STARTING nose tackle, and I'm not trying to take anything away from Ron. He is a great player. This year is Tanks year, and he is gonna be the starter. Write that one down.

.

i have said this for a while now, and still feel the same way

[Buehler445]

Somebody tell me why Turk, the only player on this team before the draft who ACTUALLY HAD THE MEASURABLES TO PLAY 3-4 DEFENSIVE END, is NOT PLAYING THAT POSITION.

That's what I was thinking also. He CERTAINLY is not a prototypical OLB.

[SAUTO]

Haley also doesn't have Fitz, Boldin and really a great all-time QB in Warner. He better get that offense to work first before trying to unleash some crazy D. .

you have to have BOTH. we as fans should know that more than almost anyone else. great d= no sb for the chiefs, great o= no Sb for the chiefs

[orange]

so the issue is with the switch more than how the 3-4 will be ran?

i think pioli and haley straight believe it's a superior scheme, and what better time to change it than now?

Are you sure Pioli had anything to do with it? I found this interesting:

"Chiefs coach Todd Haley, whose desire to shift to a 3-4 defensive front initiated these changes, said he has been encouraged by the new linebackers’ progress."

Pioli has repeatedly said that the coach needs to be the face of the franchise. Would he have forced the change if Haley didn't want it? Of course, maybe Babb is talking out his ass.

[raisedonred]

damnnn

[raisedonred]

dammmm

[bdeg]

Are you sure Pioli had anything to do with it? I found this interesting:

"Chiefs coach Todd Haley, whose desire to shift to a 3-4 defensive front initiated these changes, said he has been encouraged by the new linebackers’ progress."

Pioli has repeatedly said that the coach needs to be the face of the franchise. Would he have forced the change if Haley didn't want it? Of course, maybe Babb is talking out his ass.

not sure, but Pioli sure did preach collaboration between the gm and hc before he hired Haley.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

not sure, but Pioli sure did preach collaboration between the gm and hc before he hired Haley.

Haley wanted it before he even interviewed. As former O-Coord, he stated that the 3-4 was regularly a pain in his ass to coordinate against.

[bdeg]

Haley wanted it before he even interviewed. As former O-Coord, he stated that the 3-4 was regularly a pain in his ass to coordinate against.

and I, along with many chiefs fans, already suspected the eventual switch just from the Pioli hire. it's not in his nature to reveal anything, so we can only guess, but I don't think he'd hire a coach hellbent on instating a 3-4 if he thought it was the wrong move.