Beisel over Tamba!?

[MIAdragon]

The Kansas City star projects Monty Beisel to open the season as the Chiefs' starting weak outside linebacker.

This would be quite an ugly sign for Tamba Hali as he transitions from 4-3 end. Beisel is a journeyman with just five career sacks in eight pro seasons.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Home_NFL.aspx

If this happens its time to hang em up Tamba.

[unothadeal]

If this happens its time to hang em up Tamba.

Hang those big, circular clown shoes up you bitch.

[Hammock Parties]

If this happens its time to hang em up Tamba.

Actually, no. Hali could be a productive player in a 4-3.

[Dayze]

wow (sort of).

I like Tamba; wish/hope he can perform well enough to earn a spot.

Having said that....if he can't, adios. I want to win.

[Halfcan]

wont happen-monty was always weak against the run-and his 5 sacks show he was also poor against the pass.

Great special teams though.

[rad]

Actually, no. Hali could be a productive player in a 4-3.

Yeah, so could I.

[Jethopper]

wont happen-monty was always weak against the run-and his 5 sacks show he was also poor against the pass.

Great special teams though.

Mike Maslowski v.2!

[donkhater]

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3425837#post3425837

:hmmm:

[Fish]

This is just a "prediction" by Kent Babb.... here's the article it's referencing...

http://chiefsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/847

Position-by-position analysis: Linebackers


<!-- END tabs --> <!-- begin content --> If the Chiefs needed to aggressively address one position group this offseason, it clearly was the linebackers. And they have addressed it in such a comprehensive manner, it was clear that Kansas City's new regime didn't need many weeks to determine last year's group simply didn't cut it and needed a massive overhaul.

Before the end of last year's dreadful defensive performance -- in which very little went according to plan and hastened the firing of former head coach Herm Edwards, the departure of coordinator Gunther Cunningham, and the abandonment of the 4-3 scheme -- the Chiefs knew they had gambled and lost on a group of linebackers that couldn't stay healthy and just didn't work.

The moves, and non-moves in at least one case, looked fine before last season. The addition of Demorrio Williams from Atlanta seemed like a good signing, which it might still be, and Donnie Edwards was the team's eldest player but still appeared to have some good years left. And in his fourth season, Derrick Johnson was primed for a breakout year. The Chiefs' linebackers turned out to be a constant work in progress, as Edwards couldn't stay healthy, Williams had his own injury issues, and Johnson was inconsistent.

Enter Scott Pioli, Todd Haley, Clancy Pendergast and, ladies and germs, the 3-4 defensive front. And a whole lot of new faces on the roster, too.
Let's not kid ourselves: The Chiefs' linebackers are far from set. Tamba Hali at outside linebacker remains a question, and his adjustment from defensive end wouldn't be so pressure-filled if Hali weren't expected to be a starter at linebacker. But he is, and for any troubles adjusting to his new position, he has done by far the best job. Heck, Turk McBride said last month he didn't even think he was a "good" linebacker. Part of the uncertainty centers on a clear lack of depth at this position; for all the upgrades the Chiefs made to their expected starting linebackers, there's not a lot to feel confident about among the reserves. Monty Beisel was a terrific signing, and his acquisition might even get my vote for the Chiefs' best free-agent signing. Maybe I'll make up a plaque and everything.

The Chiefs just keep waiting for Johnson to break out. He has shown flashes, such as the first Denver game in 2008, of being an elite NFL defender. Then he disappears, drops interceptions, takes odd routes to ball carriers, doesn't wrap up and ... well, even Johnson has said he's been disappointed at times with his play. This is a bottom-line kind of year for Johnson, and he'll need to prove himself as more than an above-average linebacker, which he has been. He'll need to be consistent and motivated, and he'll also need to contribute leadership on a defense that should have been his a long time ago.

Instead, if you ask around the Chiefs' locker room after offseason practice, the defense's leader is Zach Thomas. That's good and bad. It's great that the Chiefs have someone to look up to, and amid all these changes, it's terrific that <cite>someone</cite> has emerged as a loud voice in the locker room. Players noticed Thomas' work ethic and discipline, and more than a few suggested they needed to increase their workload to be more like Zach. But it's bad because Thomas will be 36 years old on opening day, and who knows how much longer he'll be effective? Here's a cold truth: In an ideal situation, Thomas wouldn't be a starter and could instead be used as a strong backup and a mentor for the Chiefs' young defenders. Instead, he's likely to be one of the Chiefs' starting inside linebackers and will face the grind of another long season, one that was too much for Donnie Edwards last year and led to his release. The criticism has almost nothing to do with Thomas; it centers on the fact that the Chiefs didn't have another inside linebacker outperform him in OTAs. Thomas was an example on the field and in the locker room the past few months, and his leadership helped earned him starting consideration. But it would have been nice for the Chiefs to have another, younger linebacker on his tail. That didn't happen, and the Chiefs better hope that Thomas can stay healthy and keep burning at that high-octane level he showed in May and June.

The Chiefs certainly wish that Mike Vrabel had been in the house the past few months, in addition to the three days he attended the team's mandatory minicamp. Vrabel said he was exercising his rights within the collective bargaining agreement, which is fine and perhaps noble from a players' union standpoint, but the Chiefs badly needed Vrabel as they made that transition to the 3-4 and got to know each other before this long season begins. After a week or so of training camp, assuming Vrabel arrives in what we'll call "Todd Haley shape," his absence during OTAs will be mostly forgotten. It just was a less-than-ideal beginning for Vrabel and the Chiefs, particularly after he was another guy the team hoped would emerge as a leader before training camp began.

Here's the way I predict the linebacker two-deep will play out come opening day:


LOLB Mike Vrabel Turk McBride
LILB Zach Thomas Demorrio Williams
RILB Derrick Johnson Weston Dacus
ROLB Monty Beisel Tamba Hali


There certainly are some impressive names now among this corps. Then again, the Chiefs had a few big names hanging around last year, too. They're hoping for a little better luck in 2009.


GRADING THE INTANGIBLES
TALENT: B -- It's never a bad offseason when you add three linebackers with a combined eight Pro Bowls among them, but it's not so good when you realize that all three -- Zach Thomas, Mike Vrabel and Monty Beisel -- have a combined age of nearly 34 years old. Also, it's time for Derrick Johnson to live up to the expectations.

CHEMISTRY: C- -- The Chiefs' linebackers didn't even know each other when OTAs began in May. Thomas, Beisel and Vrabel were new to Kansas City, and Tamba Hali and Co., had never played linebacker at the NFL level.
EXPERIENCE: A -- Kansas City passed on Aaron Curry in the draft in favor of Tyson Jackson and spent this offseason reinforcing the linebackers with experience. There's a lot of years among them, and the Chiefs hope that's a good thing instead of a bad thing.

OUTLOOK: B- -- It could be a huge upgrade over last year ... if the linebackers can stay healthy. Thomas is off to a tremendous start, and Johnson has made it clear that he's following Thomas' lead. Vrabel will have to prove himself to his new coaches and teammates, and Hali has work to do before he's a passable linebacker. But with as much talent is part of this group, only bad luck and injuries should made it ineffective.

[Halfcan]

and we passed on CURRY!!!!

[Discuss Thrower]

IF Tamba cannot crack the starting lineup at linebacker then I hope KC can trade his happy ass for some value while there is still time.

[Dayze]

and we passed on CURRY!!!!

:doh!:

not this sh*t again.
:D

[Scorp]

and we passed on Jesus!!!!


Fixed it for ya :D

[milkman]

but it's not so good when you realize that all three -- Zach Thomas, Mike Vrabel and Monty Beisel -- have a combined age of nearly 34 years old.

Damn, we signed 11 year old LBs?

[KcFanInGA]

Actually, no. Hali could be a productive player in a 4-3.

Yeah, he showed that last year. :rolleyes:

[milkman]

Yeah, he showed that last year. :rolleyes:

He can be a productive LDE in a 43, but asking him to play the premium RDE position was stupidity at it's highest level.

[CoMoChief]

Actually, no. Hali could be a productive player in a 4-3.

Yeah he's showed it :spock:

He's downright laughable against the run.

[JENNIFERENGLAND]

GO CHIEFS!!!!!!GO BEISEL#52!!!! GO CHIEFS!!!!

[Marcellus]

Damn, we signed 11 year old LBs?

LOL, I caught that too.

[DaneMcCloud]

This is just a "prediction" by Kent Babb.... here's the article it's referencing...

That's old and from July 6th.

Hell, he's got Wes Dacus on the team.

[Mr. Laz]

GO CHIEFS!!!!!!GO BEISEL#52!!!! GO CHIEFS!!!!

Mrs. Beisel?

[SenselessChiefsFan]

and we passed on CURRY!!!!

He wouldn't be an outside linebacker anyways, he would be inside.

[orange]

He wouldn't be an outside linebacker anyways, he would be inside.

Somebody should alert those poor fools coaching the Seahawks - they've mistakenly listed him as an OLB - first team, no less.

http://www.seahawks.com/team/depth-chart.html

Dweebs.

[DaFace]

Mrs. Beisel?

Heh...not sure why it took so long, but you finally slipped up. :D

[Coach]

Really don't think it's Mrs. Beisel.

[Marcellus]

Mike Maslowski v.2!

If I remember correctly the KC defense went to shit in 2003 almost immediately following Maslowski's injury in week 8 (I know they won handily in week 9) . He was having a great year. Can't remember who replaced him at MLB but they were terrible and the defense started giving up the run like crazy without him in there.

[Skyy God]

Somebody should alert those poor fools coaching the Seahawks - they've mistakenly listed him as an OLB - first team, no less.

http://www.seahawks.com/team/depth-chart.html

Dweebs.

Cough..... 4-3...... cough.

[orange]

Cough..... 4-3...... cough.

Cough.... so what ... hack.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Somebody should alert those poor fools coaching the Seahawks - they've mistakenly listed him as an OLB - first team, no less.

http://www.seahawks.com/team/depth-chart.html

Dweebs.

They are a 4-3 team.

He could play OLB in a 3-4, but that would be taking away from his athletic ability, and his size
'could' be a liability.

He would normally be inside so his sideline to sideline speed would allow him to cover and make plays all over.

Much like I 'hope' DJ can finally capitalize on his potential in this system.

[Baby Lee]

TALENT: B -- It's never a bad offseason when you add three linebackers with a combined eight Pro Bowls among them, but it's not so good when you realize that all three -- Zach Thomas, Mike Vrabel and Monty Beisel -- have a combined age of nearly 34 years old. Also, it's time for Derrick Johnson to live up to the expectations.
So , which two are 11, and which one is 12?

[Huffman83]

Guys, each formation is going to have a different look as far as who is in the game. KC is not going to just be a 3-4 or 4-3 team. It's going to be both! Don't be surprised if it also shows a 46 in short yardage situations as the Cover 2 will probably be deader than fried chicken in KC.

Next year?!?! More than likely a 3-4 once another draft and free agency period starts.

[Ultra Peanut]

lol

[RustShack]

Somebody should alert those poor fools coaching the Seahawks - they've mistakenly listed him as an OLB - first team, no less.

http://www.seahawks.com/team/depth-chart.html

Dweebs.

uhh... 3-4 OLB's are usually DE's in the 4-3... Curry is a 4-3 OLB and a ILB in the 3-4... See Derrick Johnson, he is an OLB but now that we run a 3-4 hes an ILB.. Suggs in Baltimore was a DE until they moved to the 3-4... Ware and Merrimen were college DE's... I can't believe I'm actually saying this... you would think someone posting on a football forum would you know... know something about football?

[the Talking Can]

Somebody should alert those poor fools coaching the Seahawks - they've mistakenly listed him as an OLB - first team, no less.

http://www.seahawks.com/team/depth-chart.html

Dweebs.

there is stupid


and then there is you

[Titty Meat]

This defense is going to suck

[orange]

Pittsburgh Steelers OLBs - 2008

L. Woodley 265 lbs...............J. Harrison 242 lbs
A. Frazier 245 lbs..................B. Davis 252 lbs
P. Bailey 235 lbs...................A. Harrison 241 lbs
D. Woods 230 lbs

Name the ONE who was strictly a DE in college, smartasses. *Hint* he's also the only ONE who's bigger than Aaron Curry.

But of course, Dick LeBeau doesn't know the 3-4 like ChiefsPlanet experts.


[edit]We asked about some of the position rotations we might see on Saturday, and after a little coaxing Mora obliged.

He said to expect rookie Aaron Curry to play three quarters, and that he will play some right end, as the team tries to figure out how well Curry can rush the passer.

“We’re going to do it early in the game against some of their better players, guys that play in the regular season games and see how he does,” Mora said.

http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2009/08/13/training-camp-day-14-walter-jones-back-on-the-field/

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Pittsburgh Steelers OLBs - 2008

L. Woodley 265 lbs...............J. Harrison 242 lbs
A. Frazier 245 lbs..................B. Davis 252 lbs
P. Bailey 235 lbs...................A. Harrison 241 lbs
D. Woods 230 lbs

Name the ONE who was strictly a DE in college, smartasses. *Hint* he's also the only ONE who's bigger than Aaron Curry.

But of course, Dick LeBeau doesn't know the 3-4 like ChiefsPlanet experts.


[edit]We asked about some of the position rotations we might see on Saturday, and after a little coaxing Mora obliged.

He said to expect rookie Aaron Curry to play three quarters, and that he will play some right end, as the team tries to figure out how well Curry can rush the passer.

“We’re going to do it early in the game against some of their better players, guys that play in the regular season games and see how he does,” Mora said.

http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2009/08/13/training-camp-day-14-walter-jones-back-on-the-field/

Did you notice how the article you quoted mentioned finding out how well he can rush the passer.

Do you know why that is? He didn't rush the passer much in college.

Size isn't the only factor in whether he plays inside or outside.

Frankly, using him on the outside in a 3-4 is a waste of what he is good at and asking him to do stuff he has never done.

Doesn't mean that he couldn't do it...... just that it isn't the best use of his particular skillset.

And, your argument about LeBeau would have some meritt if HE drafted Curry and put him outside. But, he didn't.

A 4-3 team drafted him, because he fits that scheme better. The Chiefs certainly had a chance to get him.

I guess you think you are smarter than Scott Pioli. Surprising, since you didn't realize there is a difference between a 3-4 OLB and a 4-3 OLB.

[orange]

I guess you think you are smarter than Scott Pioli. Surprising, since you didn't realize there is a difference between a 3-4 OLB and a 4-3 OLB.

Nothing I wrote has anything to do with Pioli. He drafted a LINEMAN because he felt the Chiefs needed a LINEMAN more than a linebacker.

And we'll never really know whether the Steelers would have drafted Curry since they didn't pick until #32...

... BUT we do know that in 2006 they picked Lawrence Timmons at #15*; a 235 lb. strong outside linebacker with only 8 career sacks. Basically Aaron Curry, but smaller, slower, and not as good.

.................................................................................................... .......................................................................

But as strong a case as that makes for me, it still has nothing to do with the one simple reality that I posted - Aaron Curry is an OUTSIDE LINEBACKER.


* 30 picks BEFORE they took Woodley, who beat him out for the OLB spot.

[RustShack]

Everyone already knew Curry was a 4-3 OLB... thats what he was in college dumbass.

[orange]

Everyone already knew Curry was a 4-3 OLB... thats what he was in college dumbass.

And that's exactly what he would remain in a 3-4, dumbshit.

[RustShack]

And isn't Timmons an ILB for the Steelers? Your case makes no sense..

[RustShack]

So what 4-3 OLB's that weren't used as pass rushers have become 3-4 OLB's? The vast majority were DE's and the few others, such as James Harrison were heavy pass rushers from the OLB position in the 4-3.

[Rausch]

The only Chiefs I had real strong emotional ties to were Shields (retired,) Gonzo (Traded, and a metro-douchebag,) and LJ (who treats women the way I treat a 12 pack.)

Fuck it. At this point I can't really say that Clark's poorly spent cash is of any concern to me at all. At least he can afford it.

I want a winner...

[orange]

And isn't Timmons an ILB for the Steelers? Your case makes no sense..

Timmons is a utility player who plays special teams and subs where needed. He got beat out. He has two starts in two years. That's not why they picked him at #15.

I offered him as an example that LeBeau would have certainly drafted Curry who was twice the prospect that Timmons was.

As for the OLBs who actually are playing for them, 6 out of 7 were college LBs. To say that only college DEs can play OLB in a pro 3-4 is absurd, as is the idea that Curry would have to move inside. 6 out of 7 says otherwise.

I say he's an OLB because that's where he's played and that's where he's playing. I'll take his coachs' word about his strengths over some internet poster EVERY SINGLE TIME.

[orange]

So what 4-3 OLB's that weren't used as pass rushers have become 3-4 OLB's? The vast majority were DE's and the few others, such as James Harrison were heavy pass rushers from the OLB position in the 4-3.

James Harrison wasn't drafted. He had other issues.

But one college linebacker was drafted in the first round THIS year by a 3-4 team. A college LB with only 4 sacks. Clay Matthews.

He's starting for Green Bay - at OLB.

[CupidStunt]

Timmons is starting at ILB, you moron. You're fighting a losing battle: Aaron Curry is an ILB in a 3-4, weak or strong side. The odd example you have of a smaller OLB or former 4-3 LB doing well doesn't come close to disproving the rule that that position is played best by former DEs who weigh 260lb plus. Ware, Merriman, your own Robert Ayers.

Fugging mental midget.

[Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan]

Personally, I'd rather get TRR or one of the other Chiefs Planeteers thoughts on this rather than Babb. He's turing into a mini-Teicher (when in doubt, write something negative about the Chiefs).

[TRR]

Personally, I'd rather get TRR or one of the other Chiefs Planeteers thoughts on this rather than Babb. He's turing into a mini-Teicher (when in doubt, write something negative about the Chiefs).

Well thank you for the compliment! Honestly, it would be a shock to me if Beisel started over Hali. Beisel has been in "No Man's Land" for quite some time, and when he was healthy, he started for Zack Thomas on the inside when Thomas was out.

Nobody has even challenged Tamba for the starting job up to this point, and I never saw Beisel take snap in that position during camp. Beisel has been playing on the inside, or where needed when players were out.

Tamba will definitely start...I think its a misprint.
Posted via Mobile Device

[CHIEFS58]

i think we have to realistically look down the road about 2 years. i think hali is definitely a great athlete, it just wont transition well. but im not an analyst, just an opinion. beisel is a good option to give someone a breather. thats about it. neither one of these is going to be the solution. pioli and haley have a lot of work to do.

[Fish]

I asked Babb about this a while back, and he said that at the time he wrote this, it wasn't so much about Beisel's outstanding play, as it was about Tamba's downright terrible play.

But evidently Hali has since stepped it up a bit, so who knows....

[orange]

Timmons is starting at ILB, you moron. You're fighting a losing battle: Aaron Curry is an ILB in a 3-4, weak or strong side. The odd example you have of a smaller OLB or former 4-3 LB doing well doesn't come close to disproving the rule that that position is played best by former DEs who weigh 260lb plus. Ware, Merriman, your own Robert Ayers.

Fugging mental midget.

Timmons - two years - two starts. Wanta bet, chump?

The fact that they finally found a place for him - maybe - doesn't remove the disappointment of the first two years.


Your own defensive coordinator had a guy last year starting at OLB with 5 sacks, a former college LB. They liked him so much they franchised him - JUST AS IF HE WAS A REAL OLB.

[RustShack]

I can't believe this idiot doesn't know theres a difference between 3-4 OLB's and 4-3 OLB's. As for Clay Mathews, USC used the 3-4.

[HemiEd]

Mrs. Beisel?

A Laz sighting?!?!

[BigChiefFan]

I'm not sure Monty even makes the team.