Gunther to dial-up aggressive calls

[cmh6476]

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2009/07/look_for_lions_defensive_coord.html


Look for Lions' defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham to dial up aggressive calls

Posted by Tom Kowalski | Opinion July 22, 2009 05:01AM

http://blog.mlive.com/lions_impact/2009/07/medium_072209-gunther-cunningham-chiefs.jpg
AP File PhotoDefensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham will use a 4-3 alignment as the Lions' base defense, but will likely employ multiple defensive schemes this season.


At the age of 63, Detroit Lions defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham can still connect with the younger players because, for the most part, he can either match or exceed them in terms of energy and intensity.

Lions head coach Jim Schwartz, who had coached with Cunningham in the past, said, "Every minute of his life is like fourth-and-one to Gunther.''

When Schwartz took the job in Detroit, Cunningham was the obvious choice for a lot of reasons.

Not only did they have a history together and Schwartz has a deep respect for him, but Cunningham isn't married to any particular defensive scheme. He's pretty much coached it all in his 27 years in the NFL and he and Schwartz agreed that they wouldn't enter the situation in Detroit with any preconceived ideas. They would map the scheme to fit the players they had.

There are two statistics that measure what a coordinator does on defense and that's sacks and turnovers - game-changing plays. Cunningham excelled in those during his hey-day in Kansas City and he likes to be on the aggressive side when calling defenses. That was not evident in his last few years with the Chiefs because he was running more of a Tampa Two style that was favored by then-head coach Herm Edwards.

Schwartz and Cunningham have been very coy about their plans for this year's Lions' team. It took weeks before they would finally confirm they would use a 4-3 alignment as the base defense. After that, though, anything is possible. With versatile players like Julian Peterson and rookie Louis Delmas, Cunningham is capable of drawing up a wide range of alignments to throw at an offense.

Cunningham is going to have to be creative because he doesn't have the size or talent to line up and play teams even-up. The Lions did a good job in re-tooling their linebacking corps but a lot of questions remain, particularly on the all-important defensive line. The Lions have some real question marks in both their run-stopping and pass-rushing abilities and it's going to take all of Cunningham's experience and guile to put this defense in a position to be successful.


© 2009 Michigan Live. All Rights Reserved.

[The Franchise]

How long before he complains that Schwartz didn't get him the players he needed.....or that he made him run his shitty defensive scheme?

[Chiefnj2]

If Schwartz keeps him on a leash and provides guidance like Marty did then he might be able to get their defense into a top 15 D. If you gives him the keys and control, he can't do it anymore.

[rockymtnchief]

May the Schwartz be with Gunther.

[Gonzo]

Fuck Family Fun Day....

[DaWolf]

Gunther hasn't run a reliable defense since the 90's. The only chance he has is if Schwartz takes care of the finding talent and instilling toughness and discipline in the players part for him. Because Gun is pretty useless in that department. But he can sure blitz the heck out of Todd Collins four consecutive times and then tell that story over and over...

[L.A. Chieffan]

before detroit got gunther i thought they were a joke of a franchise. now, i can see they are serious about winning.

[88TG88]

before detroit got gunther i thought they were a joke of a franchise. now, i can see they are serious about winning.

ROFL

[LaChapelle]

Gunther will have dome turf to work his magic on. Sammy Knight and Kendrel Bell would be atleast .00009 of a second faster.

[sedated]

sounds like the same article written every offseason in KC.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Say what you want about KC's defense last year, those guys created turnovers. That was Gunther. Don't get me wrong, it was time for him to go, but he's a guy that makes it difficult to not like him.

[PunkinDrublic]

Aggresive phone calls will help Gunther during his future unemployment when looking for a new career.

[CoMoChief]

If Schwartz keeps him on a leash and provides guidance like Marty did then he might be able to get their defense into a top 15 D. If you gives him the keys and control, he can't do it anymore.

What's this leash people speak of? Is this just something made up by the fans/this board partially because Gunther's success was under Marty's watch?

Newsflash, the Chiefs didn't have half the talent during Gunther's 2nd go around than when Marty was here. Plain and simple. Good players will get good results. All good defenses have great players on them.

[CoMoChief]

Aggresive phone calls will help Gunther during his future unemployment when looking for a new career.

I'm sure Gunther doesn't have to worry about money.

[Hammock Parties]

Say what you want about KC's defense last year, those guys created turnovers. That was Gunther. Don't get me wrong, it was time for him to go, but he's a guy that makes it difficult to not like him.

Five years was enough time to develop a dislike. I cracked last year. Enough was enough. He sucks, and he proved it.

[CoMoChief]

Expecting rookies and 1 yr players to turn a defense into a top 10 unit is a little far fetched.

We had shit for talent on defense, or players who were incredibly inexperienced.

The only thing I bash Gunther on is the use of Glen Dorsey. But even then, that wasn't the main issue concerning our defensive woes.

[Skip Towne]

Ive had my fill of Gunthr but people keep hiring him. Why?

[PunkinDrublic]

I'm sure Gunther doesn't have to worry about money.

I know it was obviously a joke.

[Chiefnj2]

What's this leash people speak of? Is this just something made up by the fans/this board partially because Gunther's success was under Marty's watch?

Newsflash, the Chiefs didn't have half the talent during Gunther's 2nd go around than when Marty was here. Plain and simple. Good players will get good results. All good defenses have great players on them.

A large part of the reason why they didn't have the talent, is because they let Gunther make the calls on the talent. He got the free agents he wanted. He requested certain draft picks. Even as a head coach - Bartee, Stills, Atkins, etc.

[cmh6476]

What's this leash people speak of? Is this just something made up by the fans/this board partially because Gunther's success was under Marty's watch?

Newsflash, the Chiefs didn't have half the talent during Gunther's 2nd go around than when Marty was here. Plain and simple. Good players will get good results. All good defenses have great players on them.

im not sure detroit has much more talent than we do on defense.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Ive had my fill of Gunthr but people keep hiring him. Why?

Derrick Thomas, James Hasty, Dan Saleamua, Dale Carter, etc. Dude had a helluva defense back in the day. Amazingly, he's still living on that reputation...

...either that or the whole world knows more about this than we do...:spock:

[Hammock Parties]

Ive had my fill of Gunthr but people keep hiring him. Why?

He's a good old boy.

[MOhillbilly]

He's a good old boy.

look where he landed. he took a job noone else wanted.

[Hammock Parties]

look where he landed. he took a job noone else wanted.

Good old boy network can only take you so far.

But Herm had a shit ton of phone calls, too.

[bobbything]

Say what you want about KC's defense last year, those guys created turnovers.
They also only had 10 sacks and managed to give up (I counted) 6 4th quarter leads. Turnovers be damned, that defense sucked. It sucked as bad as Vermeil's 04 defense (which, up until last season, was the worst Chiefs D I'd seen since the 80's). Both were coached by Gunther. 29th in points allowed. 31st in overall defense both seasons.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Five years was enough time to develop a dislike. I cracked last year. Enough was enough. He sucks, and he proved it.

I place every oz. of blame at Herman Edwards feet. He's the one that chose the cover 2, no way Gunther wanted anything to do with that. But he loved KC, so he did his best.

Again, it was time to go, but I hold Herm far more responsible than I do Gun.

[CoMoChief]

im not sure detroit has much more talent than we do on defense.

Their LB core is a lot better than anything we have on defense.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

They also only had 10 sacks and managed to give up (I counted) 6 4th quarter leads. Turnovers be damned, that defense sucked. It sucked as bad as Vermeil's 04 defense (which, up until last season, was the worst Chiefs D I'd seen since the 80's). Both were coached by Gunther. 29th in points allowed. 31st in overall defense both seasons.

I don't disagree. At all.

[CoMoChief]

look where he landed. he took a job noone else wanted.

Or perhaps that maybe him a Schwartz have a history of some success together.

[Rain Man]

Gunther continues to telegraph his blitzes, except now he's doing it months ahead of time instead of at the line of scrimmage.

[CoMoChief]

A large part of the reason why they didn't have the talent, is because they let Gunther make the calls on the talent. He got the free agents he wanted. He requested certain draft picks. Even as a head coach - Bartee, Stills, Atkins, etc.

Yeah as a HC he should have the call on talent and who to draft. That may be his fault. I'm not arguing he was a good HC. He did ok with what he had to work with. The Chiefs were in shambles at that point when he took over.

I do honestly believe though, if he didn't have to run the Cover who defense, this defense last season would have been a lot better. And the fact that we got rid of one of the best pass rushers in the NFL......more than sure that was a swift kick in the nuts. Can't be good on defense if you're gonna trade away your best players.....its that simpl. Hoping Tamba switching sides and not losing a step (whatever that step was to begin with) is just a blueprint for disaster.

[MOhillbilly]

Or perhaps that maybe him a Schwartz have a history of some success together.

If you believe gun is anything other than a has been position coach you are crazy.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Fuck Family Fun Day....


LMAO This.

[Sure-Oz]

We'll help their heart and eat cheerios and go after their soul by going to church! -gUntard

[Halfcan]

Gun needs to retire-he is turning into an old "Get off my lawn" guy.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

We'll help their heart and eat cheerios and go after their soul by going to church! -gUntard

God can't help Gunther; nothing can.

[Valiant]

If Schwartz keeps him on a leash and provides guidance like Marty did then he might be able to get their defense into a top 15 D. If you gives him the keys and control, he can't do it anymore.

Bullshit..

He needs top line talent to succeed..

Herm for some reason let the offense last year go to the spread since they were soo bad.. Yet, for some reason Herm would not allow Gun to try and get a defense that would fit them better??

Sorry, but the game has past Gun unless you give him 3-5 possible couple pro bowlers..

[OnTheWarpath15]

Holy Jesus, are Detroit fans going to go ape-shit when they see that Gunther's idea of aggressive is taking a LB and blitzing him head up on the center, without disguising it.

[the Talking Can]

lmao


what a predictable clown Gunther is....total fraud

[Titty Meat]

Gunther sucks I remember in 05 vs the Giants it was a 3 and 8 he blitzed 3 players

[JuicesFlowing]

Haven't we heard this shit before when he was in KC? Good luck Detroit.

[Hammock Parties]

Lions head coach Jim Schwartz, who had coached with Cunningham in the past, said, "Every minute of his life is like fourth-and-one to Gunther.''

I wonder how many first downs we've given up on fourth and one over the last five years?

[Demonpenz]

Gunther on dial up, the same way he found out he was fired as head coach

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

"Every minute of his life is like 4 long years to the fans of the team he happens to be employed by".

You said it, Jim.

[chiefzilla1501]

If Schwartz keeps him on a leash and provides guidance like Marty did then he might be able to get their defense into a top 15 D. If you gives him the keys and control, he can't do it anymore.

But a major part of the job is also to be good at the coaching side of it. The D-coordinator has tight control over his assistants. And it's clear he has no idea how to manage them.

By the way...
"Every minute of his life is like fourth-and-one to Gunther."
No wonder Gun had no idea how to stop the pass.

[Rausch]

Gun never really got to run his own defense the 2nd go round and never had the nuts to stand up for himself enough to demand it.

End result = FAIL...

There is no downside to Gun calling whatever the fuck he wants in Detroit. I'd expect that team to leap about 10 spots in defense this year and then just linger there...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Gun never really got to run his own defense the 2nd go round and never had the nuts to stand up for himself enough to demand it.

End result = FAIL...

There is no downside to Gun calling whatever the fuck he wants in Detroit. I'd expect that team to leap about 10 spots in defense this year and then just linger there...

ROFL N***'a PLEASE!

[King_Chief_Fan]

another page turned in the life of Chiefs football and bad defenses.

Good luck Gun.

[CoMoChief]

Bullshit..

He needs top line talent to succeed..

Herm for some reason let the offense last year go to the spread since they were soo bad.. Yet, for some reason Herm would not allow Gun to try and get a defense that would fit them better??

Sorry, but the game has past Gun unless you give him 3-5 possible couple pro bowlers..

Please name a good defense that doesn't have top line talent.

[Chiefnj2]

Please name a good defense that doesn't have top line talent.

Redskins?

[StcChief]

the Lions play a great 1/2 game.

[CoMoChief]

Redskins?

They have one of the best secondaries in the NFL. Would be even more sickening if Sean Taylor was still alive.

[bdeg]

Maybe Gun will bring back the 11-men-on-the-los masterpiece

That always worked great.

[Halfcan]

As a D coach-arn't you SUPPOSED to dial up aggressive calls??

[SAUTO]

As a D coach-arn't you SUPPOSED to dial up aggressive calls??

NO/herm

[Halfcan]

NO/herm

ROFL bend without breaking

[chiefzilla1501]

Gun never really got to run his own defense the 2nd go round and never had the nuts to stand up for himself enough to demand it.

End result = FAIL...

There is no downside to Gun calling whatever the **** he wants in Detroit. I'd expect that team to leap about 10 spots in defense this year and then just linger there...

He had two years to run his own defense under Vermeil.

[googlegoogle]

Too many here rag on Gunther. He was a good guy. He wasn't the problem. We didn't have the players and his scheme conflicted with herm's.

[Fairplay]

The opposing teams will be scared poop-less now.

[Hammock Parties]

Maybe Gunther plans to make threatening phone calls to opposing quarterbacks. That might be more effective.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Maybe Gunther plans to make threatening phone calls to opposing quarterbacks. That might be more effective.

"I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY RAN THE SCORE UP ON US"!

Piss on Gunther.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Look at the guy, he looks just like The Talking Clap's "Herm Lip" for real:

http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv252/raisedonriots/medium_072209-gunther-cunningham-1.jpg

[milkman]

Say what you want about KC's defense last year, those guys created turnovers. That was Gunther. Don't get me wrong, it was time for him to go, but he's a guy that makes it difficult to not like him.

Really?

I found it harder than hell to like that stupid son of bitch, and I really wanted to like him because he went to high school with some friends of mine.

But everytime time that stupid **** opened his mouth I wanted to punch him in the face.

[milkman]

I place every oz. of blame at Herman Edwards feet. He's the one that chose the cover 2, no way Gunther wanted anything to do with that. But he loved KC, so he did his best.

Again, it was time to go, but I hold Herm far more responsible than I do Gun.

I blame Cunther.

First, if he couldn't run the cover two, he should have resigend his position when Herman fucking Edwards took the job.

He claimed that Herman fucking Edwards' cover two was a perfect fit for him.

Also, as I pointed out before, a good DC is capable of adapting, as demonstrated by Ron River.

Rivera played solidly in Buddy Ryan's 46 defense, did a very good job as LB coach in Jim Johnson's blitz happy scheme, did an outstanding job as the Bears DC in the cover two, and raised the level of play by the Chargers 34, substantially, when he took over mid season last year after Ted Cottrell was fired.

Cumther Gunningham is a fucking joke.

[Hammock Parties]

Who do you hate more? Gunther or LJ?

[milkman]

Yeah as a HC he should have the call on talent and who to draft. That may be his fault. I'm not arguing he was a good HC. He did ok with what he had to work with. The Chiefs were in shambles at that point when he took over.

I do honestly believe though, if he didn't have to run the Cover who defense, this defense last season would have been a lot better. And the fact that we got rid of one of the best pass rushers in the NFL......more than sure that was a swift kick in the nuts. Can't be good on defense if you're gonna trade away your best players.....its that simpl. Hoping Tamba switching sides and not losing a step (whatever that step was to begin with) is just a blueprint for disaster.

According to this article, scheme shouldn't make a damn bit of difference.

.....but Cunningham isn't married to any particular defensive scheme.

[milkman]

If you believe gun is anything other than a has been position coach you are crazy.

I believe he is a never was position coach.

[milkman]

Bullshit..

He needs top line talent to succeed..

Herm for some reason let the offense last year go to the spread since they were soo bad.. Yet, for some reason Herm would not allow Gun to try and get a defense that would fit them better??

Sorry, but the game has past Gun unless you give him 3-5 possible couple pro bowlers..

Bullshit.

Herman fucking Edwards allowed Cunther to attempt to get creative and do some blitzing.
He gave him the freedom to make adjustments, and nothing Cunther did had any success, because, as RainMan pointed out, he telegraphed his blitzes, and he has no idea how to position players to succeed.

[milkman]

Who do you hate more? Gunther or LJ?

I hate everybody equally.

[milkman]

I've said this many times before.

Cunther Gunningham did more to contain DT than any offensive coordinator ever.

During the prime of his caeer, when DT should have had the most success he never had the opportunity for that success.

I can only guess, but I would imagine that Cunther probably cost DT at least 20 sacks with his scheme from '95 to '99.

And while DT was never a great straight up run defender, he was tremendous in backside pursuit before Cunther, and Cunther's scheme took that element away from DT, illustrated by the fact that DT's overall tackle numbers suffered immensely.

[CoMoChief]

According to this article, scheme shouldn't make a damn bit of difference.

true, but having that said Gunther never ran a Cover2 before arriving to KC (second time)

[Hammock Parties]

true, but having that said Gunther never ran a Cover2 before arriving to KC (second time)

Why is anyone defending Gunther?

When questioned about the Cover 2 he immediately brought up Bud Carson, who apparently invented it or something, and how he studied under him.

[CoMoChief]

Why is anyone defending Gunther?

When questioned about the Cover 2 he immediately brought up Bud Carson, who apparently invented it or something, and how he studied under him.

Because blaming everything on a defensive coord. when theres little to no talent on the defesive side of the ball or only 1 year players and rookies is just fucking stupid.

Did Gunther fail in KC as a DC his 2nd go around? Yes he did.

Was it mainly his fault? Probably not.

[milkman]

true, but having that said Gunther never ran a Cover2 before arriving to KC (second time)

And Ron Rivera never ran a cover two before he took ove the Bears defense, and that defense wasn't as good before he took over, and hasn't been nearly as good since he was let go.

Good coaches adapt to scheme and talent.

[Hammock Parties]

Did Gunther fail in KC as a DC his 2nd go around? Yes he did.

Was it mainly his fault? Probably not.

Oh, bullshit.

Bull fucking shit.

Gunther wanted Kendrell Bell.

Gunther thought it was a good idea to move Hali to RE.

Gunther fucked with Derrick Johnson so much we're still waiting for an immensely talented player to produce consistently.

He failed because he fucking SUCKS.

But very briefly, Jared Allen made Gunther appear to be someone who was competent.

[CoMoChief]

And Ron Rivera never ran a cover two before he took ove the Bears defense, and that defense wasn't as good before he took over, and hasn't been nearly as good since he was let go.

Good coaches adapt to scheme and talent.

It's nice to have an allpro MLB that can also be a hybrid safety anchoring your Cover-2 scheme (Urlacher).

The Bears had talent on the defensive side of the ball......the Chiefs not so much outside Jared Allen.

[milkman]

It's nice to have an allpro MLB that can also be a hybrid safety anchoring your Cover-2 scheme (Urlacher).

The Bears had talent on the defensive side of the ball......the Chiefs not so much outside Jared Allen.

Pay attention.

That same pro bowl MLB is still anchoring that defense, and yet they dropped nearly 10 spots in ranking after Rivera left, and have not returned to that same lofty position that were perched in when Rivera was there.

Yes they had/have talent, but Rivera raised that talen higher than it has been before or since.

[CoMoChief]

Pay attention.

That same pro bowl MLB is still anchoring that defense, and yet they dropped nearly 10 spots in ranking after Rivera left, and have not returned to that same lofty position that were perched in when Rivera was there.

Yes they had/have talent, but Rivera raised that talen higher than it has been before or since.

you're comparing apples to oranges because here in KC, there is little to no talent. you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

[milkman]

you're comparing apples to oranges because here in KC, there is little to no talent. you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

JFC.

No, I'm not comparing apples t oranges.

I'm giving an example how a DC can amke a difference.

If Cunther Gunningham had any actual fucking idea what the fuck he was doing, he could have put even the marginal fucking talent he had to work with in position to to not fail so fucking miserably.

If he had any fucking idea what the fuck he was doing, he wouldn't put a Kendrell Bell on the outside in a 43 and expect him to cover.

If he had any fucking idea what he was doing, he wouldn't put a LB who can't consisitently shed blocks on the strongside.

If he had any fucking idea what he was doing, he wouldn't put a DT whose strength is his quickenss and ability to shoot gaps at NT, and another DT who is more of a space eater at UT.

He's fucking moron whgo has no fucking business being anywhere near a defense.

JFC.

[Hammock Parties]

you're comparing apples to oranges because here in KC, there is little to no talent. you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

"DJ, I know Gunther is filling your head with shit. Sorry, I can't do anything about it, because my head is ALSO full of shit."

http://www.kcchiefsfootball.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/derrick-johnsonpreview_0.jpg

[DJJasonp]

After the 90's, when our D sucked, Gunther bitched about not having "his" players....he got "his" players - and our D still sucked.

All along, playing players in positions that were outside of their natural positions.

Safeties playing corner.....corners playing safety...moving LB's and DT's all over the place.

Gunther jumped the shark a long, long time ago.

[googlegoogle]

Jesus guys. You don't give the guy any credit at all.

He was hamstrung by HERM. Herm ran the defense his way.

Gunther was poor in Tennessee with top 10 defenses?

Sytem + talent

[googlegoogle]

JFC.

No, I'm not comparing apples t oranges.

I'm giving an example how a DC can amke a difference.

If ****her Gunningham had any actual ****ing idea what the **** he was doing, he could have put even the marginal ****ing talent he had to work with in position to to not fail so ****ing miserably.

If he had any ****ing idea what the **** he was doing, he wouldn't put a Kendrell Bell on the outside in a 43 and expect him to cover.

If he had any ****ing idea what he was doing, he wouldn't put a LB who can't consisitently shed blocks on the strongside.

If he had any ****ing idea what he was doing, he wouldn't put a DT whose strength is his quickenss and ability to shoot gaps at NT, and another DT who is more of a space eater at UT.

He's ****ing moron whgo has no ****ing business being anywhere near a defense.

JFC.

What were the other options? You play your hand.

[CoMoChief]

"DJ, I know Gunther is filling your head with shit. Sorry, I can't do anything about it, because my head is ALSO full of shit."

http://www.kcchiefsfootball.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/derrick-johnsonpreview_0.jpg

:LOL: That's funny.

[CoMoChief]

JFC.

No, I'm not comparing apples t oranges.

I'm giving an example how a DC can amke a difference.

If ****her Gunningham had any actual ****ing idea what the **** he was doing, he could have put even the marginal ****ing talent he had to work with in position to to not fail so ****ing miserably.

If he had any ****ing idea what the **** he was doing, he wouldn't put a Kendrell Bell on the outside in a 43 and expect him to cover.

If he had any ****ing idea what he was doing, he wouldn't put a LB who can't consisitently shed blocks on the strongside.

If he had any ****ing idea what he was doing, he wouldn't put a DT whose strength is his quickenss and ability to shoot gaps at NT, and another DT who is more of a space eater at UT.

He's ****ing moron whgo has no ****ing business being anywhere near a defense.

JFC.

Wow, someone needs their diaper changed.

[DJJasonp]

Jesus guys. You don't give the guy any credit at all.

He was hamstrung by HERM. Herm ran the defense his way.

Gunther was poor in Tennessee with top 10 defenses?

Sytem + talent

Gunther was a position coach in Tennessee

[milkman]

Jesus guys. You don't give the guy any credit at all.

He was hamstrung by HERM. Herm ran the defense his way.

Gunther was poor in Tennessee with top 10 defenses?

Sytem + talent

Cunther wasn't DC in Tennesee, Jim Swartz was.

[milkman]

What were the other options? You play your hand.

Jesus, I have to spell it out for you?

Dumbass.

[milkman]

Wow, someone needs their diaper changed.

Yeah, cause I just shit your dumb ass out.

[chiefzilla1501]

you're comparing apples to oranges because here in KC, there is little to no talent. you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

But you should be able to make Grade A chicken shit out of Grade D chicken shit. Even bad players should be able to play a little bit better with good coaching. In all of Gunther's time in KC, I can't think of a single player that improved under his watch.

Instead, he put Tamba Hali out of position, constantly asked Surtain to play zone (even when Vermeil was there), played Dorsey straight at the nose, and when he was asked what players he wanted, he asked for a few rejects like Carlos Hall, Kendrell Bell, Junior Siavii and Sammy Knight. Worst of all, Derrick Johnson has declined steadily every year and was at his worst last year when Gunther was directly coaching him.

He can't evaluate talent. He can't develop it.

[CoMoChief]

Yeah, cause I just shit your dumb ass out.

:spock:

[CoMoChief]

But you should be able to make Grade A chicken shit out of Grade D chicken shit. Even bad players should be able to play a little bit better with good coaching. In all of Gunther's time in KC, I can't think of a single player that improved under his watch.

Instead, he put Tamba Hali out of position, constantly asked Surtain to play zone (even when Vermeil was there), played Dorsey straight at the nose, and when he was asked what players he wanted, he asked for a few rejects like Carlos Hall, Kendrell Bell, Junior Siavii and Sammy Knight. Worst of all, Derrick Johnson has declined steadily every year and was at his worst last year when Gunther was directly coaching him.

He can't evaluate talent. He can't develop it.

I will agree with the mis-use of Dorsey.....that didn't make sense to me at all how we used him as opposed to what he's good at.

I'm not sure how to bash the Siavii pick. Yeah he was awful, but I don't know if it was Gunther who wanted to use a 2nd rd pick to get him. That was just dumber then shit. He was projected a 5th-6th rounder.

Surtain was getting old n slow. And the FA shopping spree we went on in 2004 was in direct result to DV's horrid drafting. We had shit for talent, sometimes buying a lot of FA doesn't get you anywhere. They are FA's for a reason. Either they want too much money more than they are worth, or they suck and are trying to at least get jobs somewhere else instead of hangin' them up.

[tk13]

The defense obviously wasn't as talented. The only problem is, Gun got to pick the talent. Carl and DV let him pick the FA's he wanted. There wasn't a DC in the league that had more control over personnel than him. And then he said it still didn't work because we didn't have a defensive head coach. Then we got a defensive head coach, and it still wasn't Gun's fault because we ran the wrong defense. Despite the fact that Gun supposedly prides himself as someone with 30 years experience who can coach all kinds of defenses. He's always got an excuse ready. Don't worry, if it doesn't work out in Detroit he'll have one ready to show it wasn't his fault.

[CoMoChief]

The defense obviously wasn't as talented. The only problem is, Gun got to pick the talent. Carl and DV let him pick the FA's he wanted. There wasn't a DC in the league that had more control over personnel than him. And then he said it still didn't work because we didn't have a defensive head coach. Then we got a defensive head coach, and it still wasn't Gun's fault because we ran the wrong defense. Despite the fact that Gun supposedly prides himself as someone with 30 years experience who can coach all kinds of defenses. He's always got an excuse ready. Don't worry, if it doesn't work out in Detroit he'll have one ready to show it wasn't his fault.

GUNTHER AINT ABOUT TO HAVE A ****IN HEART ATTACK!!!! :evil:

[chiefzilla1501]

I will agree with the mis-use of Dorsey.....that didn't make sense to me at all how we used him as opposed to what he's good at.

I'm not sure how to bash the Siavii pick. Yeah he was awful, but I don't know if it was Gunther who wanted to use a 2nd rd pick to get him. That was just dumber then shit. He was projected a 5th-6th rounder.

Surtain was getting old n slow. And the FA shopping spree we went on in 2004 was in direct result to DV's horrid drafting. We had shit for talent, sometimes buying a lot of FA doesn't get you anywhere. They are FA's for a reason. Either they want too much money more than they are worth, or they suck and are trying to at least get jobs somewhere else instead of hangin' them up.

I think the point is that we have no examples of players being coached up. That's a lot of players to fail in the same time span. As far as I'm concerned, we saw a very good glimpse of what Gun's defense is when he gets to do what he wants. And it failed because of scheme a lot moreso than players. Under Vermeil, his defense constantly overpursued, gave up huge plays because the LBs were so aggressive, we gave up so many big pass plays because we had corners 15 yards off of receivers, we had LBs so undisciplined in the blitz that they were tipping the defense off well before the snap.

Whether he had players or not, the fact remains: Gunther Cunningham's entire reputation is based on his performance during the Marty Schottenheimer era. Nevermind that Marty has pumped out unstoppable defenses many times before without Gun. Gun is the one that has to prove he can field a great defense without Marty. And the reason people can't stand him is that whenever the defense failed, he blamed everyone but himself. For a guy who didn't talk much, he threw a ton more people under the bus than even Herm Edwards, and that is saying a LOT.

[chiefs1111]

I can't believe anyone would defend Gunther,all he ever did was make excuses for why he couldn't get the job done.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

"DJ, I know Gunther is filling your head with shit. Sorry, I can't do anything about it, because my head is ALSO full of shit."

http://www.kcchiefsfootball.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/derrick-johnsonpreview_0.jpg

ROFL

I can't believe anyone would defend Gunther,all he ever did was make excuses for why he couldn't get the job done.

This.

[Halfcan]

are we STILL talking about Gun??

wow what a slooooooooowwwwww offseason when we are talking about the Lions D.

[Hammock Parties]

Based on what we know about Clancy Pendergast, he's going to be a HUGE upgrade over Gunther.

And the Cardinals SUCKED on defense last year.

[CoMoChief]

Based on what we know about Clancy Pendergast, he's going to be a HUGE upgrade over Gunther.

And the Cardinals SUCKED on defense last year.

Gotta have the personnel first. Our LB's are awful and still need a NT.

[milkman]

Gotta have the personnel first. Our LB's are awful and still need a NT.

You are one incredibly stupid mother fucker.

[milkman]

I think the point is that we have no examples of players being coached up. That's a lot of players to fail in the same time span. As far as I'm concerned, we saw a very good glimpse of what Gun's defense is when he gets to do what he wants. And it failed because of scheme a lot moreso than players. Under Vermeil, his defense constantly overpursued, gave up huge plays because the LBs were so aggressive, we gave up so many big pass plays because we had corners 15 yards off of receivers, we had LBs so undisciplined in the blitz that they were tipping the defense off well before the snap.

Whether he had players or not, the fact remains: Gunther Cunningham's entire reputation is based on his performance during the Marty Schottenheimer era. Nevermind that Marty has pumped out unstoppable defenses many times before without Gun. Gun is the one that has to prove he can field a great defense without Marty. And the reason people can't stand him is that whenever the defense failed, he blamed everyone but himself. For a guy who didn't talk much, he threw a ton more people under the bus than even Herm Edwards, and that is saying a LOT.

Even if the Lions D makes strides, I will give full credit to Jim Swartz, not Cunther.

Cunther has proven to anyone with even half a brain cell that he is totally inept.

[Halfcan]

You are one incredibly stupid mother ****er.

:fire: that will leave a mark

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

You are one incredibly stupid mother fucker.

ROFL

[TRR]

I think the bottom line is that with any successful defense, comes a coach that understands how to use his players talents. Just like Chan Gailey on the offensive side of the ball...he wasn't going to try and fit a square peg into a round hole. He was going to figure out what his players do best and utilize their talents. The same should go for the defense.

You wonder if coaches ever sit down individually with players and ask them what they feel they can bring to the table and are most comfortable doing. Derrick Johnson is a perfect example of that. It seems like ever since he was drafted, he has been doing everything but given freedom to get after people and make plays.

I'm hoping Pendergast will use what talent he has wisely.
Posted via Mobile Device

[milkman]

OK. I'm watching the replay of the Falcons-Lions preseason game, and on the first defensive series for the Lions, they gave up a 40 yard TD run to Michael Turner.

That's the Cunther we know and love.

LMAO

[Hammock Parties]

Who the fuck pays to go to a Lions preseason game.

Poor bastards.

[milkman]

Who the **** pays to go to a Lions preseason game.

Poor bastards.

They probably paid to go see Stafford in his first preseason action.

[chiefs1111]

Kerry Colbert still sucks

[banyon]

They probably paid to go see Stafford in his first preseason action.

Stafford pretty pedestrian so far.

Doesn't help that Calvin Johnson is out though.

[milkman]

Stafford pretty pedestrian so far.

Doesn't help that Calvin Johnson is out though.

Had a couple of catchable balls dropped.

But it does appear they are trying not to do too much with him right now.

[Hammock Parties]

Holy fuck Stafford just zinged a great pass.

[chiefs1111]

Stafford throws a nice pass

[banyon]

Nice throw on the out route there.

[milkman]

Nice throw on the out route there.

Yep.

[JuicesFlowing]

Why do Detroit's Uniforms remind me of World League?

[chiefs1111]

Kerry Colbert will soon be cut again

[milkman]

Why do Detroit's Uniforms remind me of World League?

To me, of the old school uniforms that haven't changed much through the years, the Lions and Borwns are the worst.

[banyon]

Threw off his back foot with pressure in his face.

[Mr. Laz]

Stafford is clearly nervous and is over-throwing but he looks great for his first NFL game imo

[banyon]

Stafford is clearly nervous and is over-throwing but he looks great for his first NFL game imo

I don't know if he looks great, but I wouldn't be worried if I were a Lions fan.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

OK. I'm watching the replay of the Falcons-Lions preseason game, and on the first defensive series for the Lions, they gave up a 40 yard TD run to Michael Turner.

That's the Cunther we know and love.

LMAO

Did you expect anything less?

[Hammock Parties]

Did you expect anything less?

Well, the Lions aren't stricken with Bernard Pollard, so I was expecting good things from Gunther.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Well, the Lions aren't stricken with Bernard Pollard, so I was expecting good things from Gunther.

You just can't wait to get that first big taste of humble pie around your lips like LJ's rod, can you?