To the Herm haters.

[kcbubb]

I'm tired of all the blame going to Herm. Yes, Herm had his share of blunders but the amount of hate that he gets is ridiculous. The biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating the impact of Jared Allen. And I did too at the time. In 2007, the Chiefs almost had a top 10 defense despite their terrible offense. We know what happened in 2008. But we are quick to forget the defense of 2007. I'm not saying the Herm was a great coach, but he is not as bad as some here believe.

Just to irritate you, lets take a look at what might have been if Herm had stuck around.

-First the acquisition of Cassell never happens. Herm sticks with Thigpen and Gailey runs the system that worked well in the latter half of the season.

-The switch to the 3-4 never happens and the Chiefs continue to run a 4-3 defense.

-Most likely, no notable free agents are picked up.

-Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs.

-The draft rolls around and Herm takes the safe route as usual and picks the following players:

1. Aaron Curry
2. Everette Brown (Herm likes this pick bc of the desperate need for a pass rusher to replace Jared Allen who was lost in 07 and the success of another small DE Dwight Freeney with the Colts where his role model Tony Dungy coached.)
3. Antione Caldwell (Mal Moore leadership award winner is drafted here) Herm kinda player. And can play all line positions but primarily C or G.
4. Louis Murphy (Herm picks a wide out for the needed depth and Murphy provide some speed.)
5. Jasper Brinkley (Tough middle linebacker probably starts.)
6. Andrew Gardner (RT tackle pushes or replaces McIntosh)
7. Captain Munnerlyn (CB and returner)
7. Ricky Jean-Francois (depth at DT)
7. Ryan Succop K


And to top it off. After speaking with Tony Dungy about Michael Vick, who has been mentoring Vick, Herm trusts Dungy and decides to give Vick a shot at backing up Tyler Thigpen.


Would all of this happened... probably not, but it is interesting to think about what might have been if Herm and Carl would have stayed. Again, I don't think Herm is great and I definitely don't think Carl was good, but I do wonder what might have happened. I do like the draft above much better than our current one, and I do like that we still would have Tony G.

[MMXcalibur]

NEW TOPIC: Anybody here like Mega Man?

[The Franchise]

Fuck Herm.

































and fuck you.

[Pablo]

Haha. You obviously took a lot of time and effort to write out how you feel, but nobody's going to read shit you wrote and just call you a retard for defending Herm.

Congrats on accomplishing absolutely nothing.

[Reerun_KC]

**** Herm.

and **** you.

This!

If you want to immune Herm for the pathetic shit we are dealing with now.. Then go ahead, try to tell yourself it is okay..

But you can go fuck yourself with a wooden spoon.

[LaChapelle]

ONly a few hate HErm the PersoN. MoRe disLike U.

[Reerun_KC]

Haha. You obviously took a lot of time and effort to write out how you feel, but nobody's going to read shit you wrote and just call you a retard for defending Herm.

Congrats on accomplishing absolutely nothing.

ROFL

[kcbubb]

Haha. You obviously took a lot of time and effort to write out how you feel, but nobody's going to read shit you wrote and just call you a retard for defending Herm.

Congrats on accomplishing absolutely nothing.

that's my goal with posting is to accomplish things. We all get a whole lot done around here. look how productive all the posters are on here! keep up the good work!!! ROFL

[Sure-Oz]

Herm is on ESPN, who cares

[Bowser]

Herm failed at being able to manage a game, not in acquiring talent.

The guy won 6 fucking games as a head coach in two seasons. That would be enough to get Bill Parcells fired.

[milkman]

How many times were you dropped on your head as a baby. bubb?

Do your parents wipe the drool off your face still?

JFC, you are a dumbass.

Sadly, you make Herman fucking Edwards almost look smart by comparison.

[Pablo]

that's my goal with posting is to accomplish things. We all get a whole lot done around here. look how productive all the posters are on here! keep up the good work!!! ROFLWell, I accomplish epic wins at the internet and funny in general; so yes, some of us do accomplish things on CP.

You = Epically failtacular to the nth degree of fail.

[The Franchise]

Oh...and FWIW.....Herm would have kept Barth and not drafted Succop. And we wouldn't have the third 7th round pick. And we probably wouldn't have drafted Curry...instead grabbing an OT with the #3 pick and moving Albert inside to Guard.

[kcbubb]

Oh...and FWIW.....Herm would have kept Barth and not drafted Succop. And we wouldn't have the third 7th round pick. And we probably wouldn't have drafted Curry...instead grabbing an OT with the #3 pick and moving Albert inside to Guard.

Wrong again. Herm said he would have taken Curry on ESPN.

[The Franchise]

Wrong again. Herm said he would have taken Curry on ESPN.

:rolleyes:

[suds79]

NEW TOPIC: Anybody here like Mega Man?

Love Mega Man.

I was a late bloomer onto the series. Never played it as a kid. Then while I was in college, I downloaded an SNES emulator and tried out Mega Man... Beat it. Loved it.

Think I ended up playing through the 1st 3 of them or so.

[Reerun_KC]

Wrong again. Herm said he would have taken Curry on ESPN.

That is why Herm is on ESPN and not a HC in the NFL... He cant destroy franchises on ESPN, He can talk his stupid bullshit, but the effects are people wearing out mute buttons not the total destruction of an NFL football team...

[The Bad Guy]

Can someone just Old Yeller this MF so they can put him out of his misery?

Herm led this team to 6 wins in 2 years yet losers like this want to defend him?

Fucking hilarious.

[RustShack]

Oh to stay mediocre instead of building a championship team! Come back Carl and Herm!!!

[The Bad Guy]

Ha, the biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating Jared Allen?

Really?

[milkman]

Can someone just Old Yeller this MF so they can put him out of his misery?

Herm led this team to 6 wins in 2 years yet losers like this want to defend him?

****ing hilarious.

It's amazing, isn't it?

We have people here defending Herman fucking Edwards, Cunther, and even Carl at one time.

I mean, I hated Marty, but I can see how people would defend him, but these three idiots is incomprehensible.

[RustShack]

Thigpen isn't tall enough to be a SB winning QB. Herm is the wrong color to be a SB winning coach. Carl is too retarded to put together a SB winning team. I like our odds better now. We need to take chances that Herm couldn't take, and the 3-4 defense has a greater success rate than the Tampa Two.

[Tiger's Fan]

Why is this fucking idiot still in the green?

[mikeyis4dcats.]

Thigpen isn't tall enough to be a SB winning QB. Herm is the wrong color to be a SB winning coach. Carl is too retarded to put together a SB winning team. I like our odds better now. We need to take chances that Herm couldn't take, and the 3-4 defense has a greater success rate than the Tampa Two.

:spock:

[CoMoChief]

7. Captain Munnerlyn


Cool name. ROFL

[milkman]

Why is this ****ing idiot still in the green?

Well, I can't speak for anyone else.

But I very rarely give out neg rep, and I never give out neg rep for football opinions, even when they are as idiotic as these.

[Reerun_KC]

This should warrant a ban.... I think we should all report this post as offensive and abusive to the intelligence level of the board and its members...

[The Bad Guy]

Well, I can't speak for anyone else.

But I very rarely give out neg rep, and I never give out neg rep for football opinions, even when they are as idiotic as these.

As a whole, I think rep is fucking stupid.

[milkman]

As a whole, I think rep is ****ing stupid.

I agree.

[kcbubb]

It's amazing, isn't it?

We have people here defending Herman ****ing Edwards, ****her, and even Carl at one time.

I mean, I hated Marty, but I can see how people would defend him, but these three idiots is incomprehensible.

I didn't defend Herm. But I do like how the team would look personnel wise with how he would have drafted than what we have currently. I like the 4-3. I don't like the 3-4 with our current personal.

I like Gailey's old offense and if given the option, I would rather focus on improving the defense with a pass rusher and some linebackers and improving the offensive line rather doing what Pioli and Haley did.

Even with Herm's poor coaching, I bet the 2009 Herm and Carl Chiefs would be better and closer to the playoffs than the Pioli and Haley Chiefs.

You can't win the superbowl if you aren't in the playoffs.

[Reerun_KC]

As a whole, I think rep is ****ing stupid.

Considering your in the Green? Yes it is stupid! ROFL



Kidding of course...

[kcbubb]

7. Captain Munnerlyn


Cool name. ROFL

dude can play. did you ever watch south carolina play?

[Reerun_KC]

I didn't defend Herm. But I do like how the team would look personnel wise with how he would have drafted than what we have currently. I like the 4-3. I don't like the 3-4 with our current personal.

I like Gailey's old offense and if given the option, I would rather focus on improving the defense with a pass rusher and some linebackers and improving the offensive line rather doing what Pioli and Haley did.

Even with Herm's poor coaching, I bet the 2009 Herm and Carl Chiefs would be better and closer to the playoffs than the Pioli and Haley Chiefs.

You can't win the superbowl if you aren't in the playoffs.


:eek:

The impeeding shit storm that is about to be unleashed is going to be priceless to watch...

[Just Passin' By]

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=208217

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=210988

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=199159


Thorazine fever, catch it!

[milkman]

I didn't defend Herm. But I do like how the team would look personnel wise with how he would have drafted than what we have currently. I like the 4-3. I don't like the 3-4 with our current personal.

I like Gailey's old offense and if given the option, I would rather focus on improving the defense with a pass rusher and some linebackers and improving the offensive line rather doing what Pioli and Haley did.

Even with Herm's poor coaching, I bet the 2009 Herm and Carl Chiefs would be better and closer to the playoffs than the Pioli and Haley Chiefs.

You can't win the superbowl if you aren't in the playoffs.

With Carl and Herman fucking Edwards running things, if you think you see a team that's close to a SB, then it's an illusion.

You can't get to a SB if you're too fucking stupid to mange a clock, and if you are too fucking stupid to find a real coach, but rather go out and spend a 4th round pick on a failed coach.

[Mr. Plow]

Herm is on ESPN, who cares


I do. I want to see him buried somewhere nobody would ever find him.

[Skip Towne]

With Carl and Herman fucking Edwards running things, if you think you see a team that's close to a SB, then it's an illusion.

You can't get to a SB if you're too fucking stupid to mange a clock, and if you are too fucking stupid to find a real coach, but rather go out and spend a 4th round pick on a failed coach.

Yes but only Herm is capable of spending two time outs on one play.

[Otter]

I didn't defend Herm.

Did you read your post?

Tell you what, I'll let the free market speak for me; Herm Edwards will never head coach another NFL game in his life.

That's exactly how good he was.

[Mr. Plow]

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[morphius]

All points for Herm are null and void, because I can't seem to remember any player actually getting better while he was coaching them here. That really isn't the recipe for making improvements from year to year.

[Molitoth]

LOL even if all that were to have happened, The Chiefs would still suck ass for years to come.

[Titty Meat]

Whos smurf account is this?

[The Bad Guy]

Are you mental? You didn't defend Herm?

Fucking loon.

[the Talking Can]

I'm tired of all the blame going to Herm. Yes, Herm had his share of blunders but the amount of hate that he gets is ridiculous. The biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating the impact of Jared Allen. And I did too at the time. In 2007, the Chiefs almost had a top 10 defense despite their terrible offense. We know what happened in 2008. But we are quick to forget the defense of 2007. I'm not saying the Herm was a great coach, but he is not as bad as some here believe.

Just to irritate you, lets take a look at what might have been if Herm had stuck around.

-First the acquisition of Cassell never happens. Herm sticks with Thigpen and Gailey runs the system that worked well in the latter half of the season.

-The switch to the 3-4 never happens and the Chiefs continue to run a 4-3 defense.

-Most likely, no notable free agents are picked up.

-Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs.

-The draft rolls around and Herm takes the safe route as usual and picks the following players:

1. Aaron Curry
2. Everette Brown (Herm likes this pick bc of the desperate need for a pass rusher to replace Jared Allen who was lost in 07 and the success of another small DE Dwight Freeney with the Colts where his role model Tony Dungy coached.)
3. Antione Caldwell (Mal Moore leadership award winner is drafted here) Herm kinda player. And can play all line positions but primarily C or G.
4. Louis Murphy (Herm picks a wide out for the needed depth and Murphy provide some speed.)
5. Jasper Brinkley (Tough middle linebacker probably starts.)
6. Andrew Gardner (RT tackle pushes or replaces McIntosh)
7. Captain Munnerlyn (CB and returner)
7. Ricky Jean-Francois (depth at DT)
7. Ryan Succop K


And to top it off. After speaking with Tony Dungy about Michael Vick, who has been mentoring Vick, Herm trusts Dungy and decides to give Vick a shot at backing up Tyler Thigpen.


Would all of this happened... probably not, but it is interesting to think about what might have been if Herm and Carl would have stayed. Again, I don't think Herm is great and I definitely don't think Carl was good, but I do wonder what might have happened. I do like the draft above much better than our current one, and I do like that we still would have Tony G.


that is fucking retarded

[Nzoner]

You can't win the superbowl if you aren't in the playoffs.

Dude do you remember Herm's only appearance in the playoffs as KC's coach?It was a focking embarrassment,especially coming off the win against the Jags where he pulled out every stop and then said as much so in his postgame presser.

He almost won me over with that and then he focking goes and embarrasses the hell out of the frachise the very next week...in the PLAYOFFS.

[DaFace]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/ZoSoKarl/BabyJesusCry.jpg

[RustShack]

Our roster now is already better than it ever was under Herm.

[Pioli Zombie]

I'm tired of all the blame going to Herm. Yes, Herm had his share of blunders but the amount of hate that he gets is ridiculous. The biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating the impact of Jared Allen. And I did too at the time. In 2007, the Chiefs almost had a top 10 defense despite their terrible offense. We know what happened in 2008. But we are quick to forget the defense of 2007. I'm not saying the Herm was a great coach, but he is not as bad as some here believe.

Just to irritate you, lets take a look at what might have been if Herm had stuck around.

-First the acquisition of Cassell never happens. Herm sticks with Thigpen and Gailey runs the system that worked well in the latter half of the season.

-The switch to the 3-4 never happens and the Chiefs continue to run a 4-3 defense.

-Most likely, no notable free agents are picked up.

-Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs.

-The draft rolls around and Herm takes the safe route as usual and picks the following players:

1. Aaron Curry
2. Everette Brown (Herm likes this pick bc of the desperate need for a pass rusher to replace Jared Allen who was lost in 07 and the success of another small DE Dwight Freeney with the Colts where his role model Tony Dungy coached.)
3. Antione Caldwell (Mal Moore leadership award winner is drafted here) Herm kinda player. And can play all line positions but primarily C or G.
4. Louis Murphy (Herm picks a wide out for the needed depth and Murphy provide some speed.)
5. Jasper Brinkley (Tough middle linebacker probably starts.)
6. Andrew Gardner (RT tackle pushes or replaces McIntosh)
7. Captain Munnerlyn (CB and returner)
7. Ricky Jean-Francois (depth at DT)
7. Ryan Succop K


And to top it off. After speaking with Tony Dungy about Michael Vick, who has been mentoring Vick, Herm trusts Dungy and decides to give Vick a shot at backing up Tyler Thigpen.


Would all of this happened... probably not, but it is interesting to think about what might have been if Herm and Carl would have stayed. Again, I don't think Herm is great and I definitely don't think Carl was good, but I do wonder what might have happened. I do like the draft above much better than our current one, and I do like that we still would have Tony G.
Fuck you hard up the ass with a broken bottle.

Every scenario you mention SUCKS.
Thigpen and Vick?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Reerun_KC]

No way this thread should get close to the bottom of the first page...

This should be stickied!

[Dave Lane]

Can someone just Old Yeller this MF so they can put him out of MY misery?

FYP

and

This

[Chiefnj2]

I don't like the 3-4 with our current personal.

.

Neither does Pioli which is why he took Jackson and Magee and brought in Vrabel and Thomas. He can't rebuild the team in one year. The rest of Herm's players will be released and/or traded next year.

[Hammock Parties]

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[Mecca]

The Chiefs don't have personnel for any defense at this point 4-3 or 3-4.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

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LMAO I never get sick of that.

You play to win the game! ROFL

Is that a Boba Fett Production? That is seriously brilliant.

[2112]

He did get the Chiefs to the Playoffs 1 out of the 3 years he was here. job well done.

[Skip Towne]

He did get the Chiefs to the Playoffs 1 out of the 3 years he was here. job well done.

Did you duck as you typed that?

[2112]

Did you duck as you typed that?

:evil:

Thats what I was told over and over and over again about the Jets. he did the same thing with the Chiefs. he did a great job..lol

To be honest, I'm tired of talking about him. he's finally been exposed as a fraud. even he knows it now. but his state of denial was borderline Psychotic. I don't think he has both ores in the water.

[DJJasonp]

"How to lose friends and make enemies" - by this thread starter

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Good god that would have been pathetic if they had done that. Sure attendence won't be that great this year, but if they had kept Herm you'd likely be the only one at the games.

[Bwana]

Oh boy..........

[Titty Meat]

Yes, it wasn’t Herm's fault he inherited a bunch of old, worthless, over the hill veteran’s that could no longer play football. Face it, Herm did the best he could with the hand he was dealt. Had he been able to rebuild the first year he was here we would have won the Super Bowl last year. It was Carl that clearly held him back. Herm should be added to the ring of fame for his efforts.<O:p</O:p

Yea and the players he drafted to replace the old players sucked. So did the free agents he signed to replace those veterans.

[wild1]

this has to be a joke. no one is dumb enough to both love Herm and want Vick over Cassel

[Micjones]

You're really defending an NFL Head Coach who managed exactly 6 wins in two seasons?

Wow...

He's done exactly nothing noteworthy in his career.
I'll never get why people stick up for him.
He's lost 20 more games than he's won as an HC in this league.
Seriously...

[chiefs1111]

Herm, just needed more time to work out a few kinks. He wasn't given enough time to implement his master plan.

Herm isn't a good enough coach to execute a master plan

[Skip Towne]

Those were all close games that could have gone either way. Herm was only a play or two away in each of the games that we could have won the playoffs.

Surely you jest. You just don't give a dunce like Herm more and more time. He isn't even smart enough to use the internet.

[chiefs1111]

Surely you jest. You just don't give a dunce like Herm more and more time. He isn't even smart enough to use the internet.

I think calling Herm a dunce is going to easy on him

[LaChapelle]

They had to gut the stadium after Herm left. They still aren't sure they got the stench out.

[Lzen]

Haha. You obviously took a lot of time and effort to write out how you feel, but nobody's going to read shit you wrote and just call you a retard for defending Herm.

Congrats on accomplishing absolutely nothing.

ROFL I read the first couple of lines. After the Michael Vick thread yesterday and now this, my thoughts are "this kcbubb must be a real dumb ass".

[the Talking Can]

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ok, that is pretty fucking brilliant

[Hammock Parties]

I made that in like...October? It was in the germ warfare thread.

[the Talking Can]

I made that in like...October? It was in the germ warfare thread.

well kudos, i hadn't seen it...

[chiefzilla1501]

Given a competent front office, Herm would have been a 9-10 win coach. Which is good but not great. People who say he was worthless and incompetent are ridiculous. Nobody denies that Peterson fucked this team up. Nobody denies that Vermeil let this team get ridiculously old. Nobody denies that this team whiffed on 10 straight drafts before Herm came into KC. And yet nobody wants to suggest that maybe Herm inherited a pretty poor situation that made it really difficult to win games.

I'm pretty excited about the Haley regime. I just feel bad it had to go down this way for Herm. He inherited a shitty team and despite Herm's constant insistence that the team needed to rebuild, our stubborn shithead of a GM resisted at every turn. We are mostly in the situation we are in now because of Peterson's mismanagement.

[OnTheWarpath15]

ROFL I read the first couple of lines. After the Michael Vick thread yesterday and now this, my thoughts are "this kcbubb must be a real dumb ass".

This.

[Titty Meat]

Given a competent front office, Herm would have been a 9-10 win coach. Which is good but not great. People who say he was worthless and incompetent are ridiculous. Nobody denies that Peterson ****ed this team up. Nobody denies that Vermeil let this team get ridiculously old. Nobody denies that this team whiffed on 10 straight drafts before Herm came into KC. And yet nobody wants to suggest that maybe Herm inherited a pretty poor situation that made it really difficult to win games.

I'm pretty excited about the Haley regime. I just feel bad it had to go down this way for Herm. He inherited a shitty team and despite Herm's constant insistence that the team needed to rebuild, our stubborn shithead of a GM resisted at every turn. We are mostly in the situation we are in now because of Peterson's mismanagement.

Did you watch the games? Herm gave games away. Who the fuck plays a close style game while ignoring the QB position, Special teams, and Field Goal kicker. That was Herms doing.

[sportsman1]

Both San Diego Games were great examples of Herm giving the game away. I mean his stupidity in "game situations" is un-paralleled. Non to mention he coddled players, and they weren't ever ready for the season.

[kstater]

Demonpenz, that you?

No, sadly Chiefzilla has always been 2 inches from Herm's cock.

[OnTheWarpath15]

No, sadly Chiefzilla has always been 2 inches from Herm's cock.

LMAO

[Mr. Flopnuts]

ok, that is pretty fucking brilliant

LMAO

YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!

ROFL I can't get enough of that.

[Halfcan]

**** Herm.












and **** you.

yep another ghey thread

[chiefzilla1501]

Did you watch the games? Herm gave games away. Who the **** plays a close style game while ignoring the QB position, Special teams, and Field Goal kicker. That was Herms doing.

I never said he was a great gameday coach. In fact, I've said many times that it would probably be the thing that always kept him from being anything more than a 1-and-done playoff coach.

But it says a lot that he was able to keep the game close with a pretty shitty talented team that had shitty talent mostly through no fault of his own.

[chiefzilla1501]

No, sadly Chiefzilla has always been 2 inches from Herm's cock.

Because it tastes like rainbow sherbert.

[Bwana]

But it says a lot that he was able to keep the game close with a pretty shitty talented team that had shitty talent mostly through no fault of his own.

OMG!

LMAO

[chiefzilla1501]

OMG!

LMAO

The Chiefs ****ed up 10 years of drafts before Herm Edwards came in, leaving Herm Edwards no homegrown talent under the age of 30

The Chiefs ****ed up 5 years of free agency under Vermeil, leaving Herm with a bunch of expensive players who played like shit

Herm Edwards told his GM that the team needed to be hit with a wrecking ball and rebuilt from the ground up. The GM refused and instead kept a bunch of shitty, old veterans on the roster and even signed crappy stopgaps like Damion McIntosh and Napoleon Harris in an effort to "win now."

While this is debatable, I would still argue that Herm Edwards was forced to keep Solari and Gun on board because the GM had a loyalty issue


So you tell me how any coach given a team with primarily 30+ year old players, no young players in the program, and a GM who refused to admit that the team needed to be rebuilt has any chance at winning. Herm should have been allowed to rebuild immediately. He should have been given more power to choose his own coordinators. He shouldn't have been forced to start an old stopgap veteran QB who was there to milk a few wins right away at the expense of developing a young QB. And frankly, while we're being honest, the fact that Carl Peterson hired his friend (Herm Edwards) as a head coach without interviewing anybody else is just another point of proof about how horrible of a GM he was.

[The Bad Guy]

I'm really at a loss here. Never did I think after Herm and Carl were gone that we would be 2 days from training camp and 2 ratards </end hangover reference> would sit here defending him.

I guess you're going to also sit here and tell me that Herm left the Jets in wonderful condition too?

[bowener]

NEW TOPIC: Anybody here like Mega Man?

FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!!

http://www.1pstart.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/mega-man-cosplay.jpg

[Skip Towne]

Marty was under Peterson too. How did he make the playoffs year after year? There is no defending Herm.

[milkman]

Marty was under Peterson too. How did he make the playoffs year after year? There is no defending Herm.

One could argue that the foundation of those Marty led Chiefs was laid from the drafts of the 80s, with only a couple of pieces, most importantly DT, added after Carl and Marty joined the party.

[Bwana]

.........

Sure Carl was as much to blame as Herm. Thank God they are both down the road. Now we may have a chance in the next 5 years.

[Skip Towne]

The Chiefs had been on TV here in Tulsa for the past 20 years. In each of Herm's last two years they were taken off after only a few games. Thanks a lot Herm.

[luv]

:shake:

[The Franchise]

The Chiefs ****ed up 10 years of drafts before Herm Edwards came in, leaving Herm Edwards no homegrown talent under the age of 30

The Chiefs ****ed up 5 years of free agency under Vermeil, leaving Herm with a bunch of expensive players who played like shit

Herm Edwards told his GM that the team needed to be hit with a wrecking ball and rebuilt from the ground up. The GM refused and instead kept a bunch of shitty, old veterans on the roster and even signed crappy stopgaps like Damion McIntosh and Napoleon Harris in an effort to "win now."

While this is debatable, I would still argue that Herm Edwards was forced to keep Solari and Gun on board because the GM had a loyalty issue


So you tell me how any coach given a team with primarily 30+ year old players, no young players in the program, and a GM who refused to admit that the team needed to be rebuilt has any chance at winning. Herm should have been allowed to rebuild immediately. He should have been given more power to choose his own coordinators. He shouldn't have been forced to start an old stopgap veteran QB who was there to milk a few wins right away at the expense of developing a young QB. And frankly, while we're being honest, the fact that Carl Peterson hired his friend (Herm Edwards) as a head coach without interviewing anybody else is just another point of proof about how horrible of a GM he was.

Wow.

Just remember....that Herm took Vermeil's leftovers to the playoffs....until he got his chance to rebuild.....and then he won 6 games in 2 seasons. Yeah....Herm was GREEEEEAAAAATTTTTTTT.

[chiefzilla1501]

Sure Carl was as much to blame as Herm. Thank God they are both down the road. Now we may have a chance in the next 5 years.

"As much"?

Carl Peterson fucked this team up well before Herm ever came into town. Herm didn't do a great job of coaching, but Carl Peterson did a horrendous job in general management. Peterson deserves the majority of the blame. It amazes me that people actually struggle to see how bad of shape Peterson left this team after Vermeil left. No coach could have turned this team into a winner in those three years.

[Hammock Parties]

STOP...TALKING...ABOUT....HERM!!!!!!!!!

[chiefzilla1501]

Wow.

Just remember....that Herm took Vermeil's leftovers to the playoffs....until he got his chance to rebuild.....and then he won 6 games in 2 seasons. Yeah....Herm was GREEEEEAAAAATTTTTTTT.

You're wrong on multiple levels

[The Bad Guy]

You're wrong on multiple levels

No, he's really not.

[luv]

"As much"?

Carl Peterson fucked this team up well before Herm ever came into town. Herm didn't do a great job of coaching, but Carl Peterson did a horrendous job in general management. Peterson deserves the majority of the blame. It amazes me that people actually struggle to see how bad of shape Peterson left this team after Vermeil left. No coach could have turned this team into a winner in those three years.

I don't think anyone struggles to see that. What we also do not struggle to see is that Herm sucked, Peterson or no Peterson.

[keg in kc]

Thank you for keeping the tradition of really stupid threads alive.

[Mecca]

I wonder if people are going to say Todd Haley sucks because this team still has a very poor overall talent level.

[Buzzsaw]

When you look at a head coach, you start with asking yourself "Can this guy win a Championship?". Herman Edwards can't even manage a game clock. The end.

[The Franchise]

You're wrong on multiple levels

Point out where I'm wrong then.

[Mecca]

When you look at a head coach, you start with asking yourself "Can this guy win a Championship?". Herman Edwards can't even manage a game clock. The end.

Clock management is one of the worst handled things in the NFL. You'd almost think these guys should play Madden for a couple hours and they might figure it out. When a Madden player can manage the clock better than an NFL coach, that's a problem.

[chiefzilla1501]

No, he's really not.

His claim was that Herm had a chance to rebuild and only won 6 games in 2 seasons.

The truth is, Herm wanted to rebuilt immediately and especially after the first season and Peterson outright refused to listen. And so, in 2008, it was two years too late and the team was in complete disarray. This is pretty much common knowledge right now. And to make matters worse, our GM did ZERO due diligence on the entire coaching staff and hired the two coordinators from within instead of at least looking at outside options.

The truth is, Herm inherited a shitty team and was never given much opportunity to make it his own. I don't know how anyone can claim otherwise, no matter what you think about his coaching style.

[Skip Towne]

You're wrong on multiple levels

Why is your rep still green?

[JuicesFlowing]

Mike Solari as O.C. was one of the worst decisions I have ever seen.

[Mecca]

Herm is a really horrendous coach that talks a big game.

I think zilla is trying to make the point that Herm Edwards was in a no win situation. He was left with no young core pieces and a GM who did not want to rebuild. That's Herms fault for taking the job seeing as he knew what he was getting himself into.

But at the same time I see the point he took over an aging declining team and wanted to build through the draft when you change styles to that degree there will be some very bad years.

[luv]

His claim was that Herm had a chance to rebuild and only won 6 games in 2 seasons.

The truth is, Herm wanted to rebuilt immediately and especially after the first season and Peterson outright refused to listen. And so, in 2008, it was two years too late and the team was in complete disarray. This is pretty much common knowledge right now. And to make matters worse, our GM did ZERO due diligence on the entire coaching staff and hired the two coordinators from within instead of at least looking at outside options.

The truth is, Herm inherited a shitty team and was never given much opportunity to make it his own. I don't know how anyone can claim otherwise, no matter what you think about his coaching style.

So, you're saying Herm doesn't suck? Is that what I'm getting from this? You want him back?

[keg in kc]

Mike Solari as O.C. was one of the worst decisions I have ever seen.And that's saying something, with the decades of other bad decisions predating it.

[Hammock Parties]

Mike Solari as O.C. was one of the worst decisions I have ever seen.

That was Carl's call.

And really, it wasn't THAT bad of a call. Solari called games OK in 2006 when he had Terry Shea down on the sidelines.

When Herm gutted the offensive staff Solari suddenly hit rock bottom.

[chiefzilla1501]

When you look at a head coach, you start with asking yourself "Can this guy win a Championship?". Herman Edwards can't even manage a game clock. The end.

As I've said many times, I never believed Herm did anything to prove that he can win a championship. So I agree with any arguments that he wasn't a good gameday coach and that there was a good reason to let him go.

But people are trying to blame him for poor personnel decisions that were made before he got there. They credit the Vermeil era for his first playoff season, but don't blame the Vermeil era for the poor state the team was left in the years after. And that's ridiculously unfair.

[Ralphy Boy]

Oh...and FWIW.....Herm would have kept Barth and not drafted Succop.

And Will Franklin would have made the Pro Bowl this year.

[Mecca]

So, you're saying Herm doesn't suck? Is that what I'm getting from this? You want him back?

In theory his approach to building a team was sound, he just didn't implement it properly. Not to mention he is not a good coach when it comes to actual football.

[Mecca]

I think most people would acknowledge most of the Chiefs issues of today are the fault of Dick Vermiels old man win right now philosophy. He didn't care about drafting or developing players he was to old to have time for that.

Hell he didn't even seem to want to learn new players names.

[Skip Towne]

We had several coaches under Peterson. None were even close to as horrendous as Herm. Herm just kept getting worse.

[keg in kc]

I think most people would acknowledge most of the Chiefs issues of today are the fault of Dick Vermiels old man win right now philosophy. He didn't care about drafting or developing players he was to old to have time for that.

Hell he didn't even seem to want to learn new players names.Yep, and that and Herm being a horrible coach aren't mutually exclusive concepts, any more than admitting that the defensive spiral characterizing Vermeil's era started in 1998.

More than one thing can suck at a time.

[chiefzilla1501]

That was Carl's call.

And really, it wasn't THAT bad of a call. Solari called games OK in 2006 when he had Terry Shea down on the sidelines.

When Herm gutted the offensive staff Solari suddenly hit rock bottom.

That's not true. Solari's playcalling was notoriously run-run-pass in 2006 and was the biggest reason we got destroyed against Indy in the playoffs. You're absolutely right that Solari was forced into an offense in 2007 that he wasn't comfortable with, but that again begs the question... if Herm wanted to run a more West Coast offense, why hire a coordinator who likes to move the ball? And if he wanted a Tampa 2, why hire a guy who is clearly not a Cover 2 coach? Maybe Herm begged to keep both Gun and Solari, but I doubt it and even so, the GM is the one who should have ultimate have the final say.

[Mecca]

Gunther was here because of Carl, I don't think that one had much of anything to do with Herm.

That whole situation was fucked up it was just a whole bunch of people not on the same page.

[Hammock Parties]

It IS true that it was Carl's call.

Completely true.

[chiefzilla1501]

We had several coaches under Peterson. None were even close to as horrendous as Herm. Herm just kept getting worse.

Geez.

Gunther inherited a ridiculously talented team leftover from Marty. When Vermeil came in, Peterson bent over backwards for him to give him the right pieces immediately--gave him Roaf, Green, Wiegmann, Priest Holmes, Kennison, etc.... You can't even pretend that their situations going in were remotely similar.

[luv]

As I've said many times, I never believed Herm did anything to prove that he can win a championship. So I agree with any arguments that he wasn't a good gameday coach and that there was a good reason to let him go.

But people are trying to blame him for poor personnel decisions that were made before he got there. They credit the Vermeil era for his first playoff season, but don't blame the Vermeil era for the poor state the team was left in the years after. And that's ridiculously unfair.

Whew! I was starting to worry about you. Yes, Peterson was a bad GM. That's not the point of the thread though, is it? I mean the guy even talked about the possibility of Vick ending up in KC. WTF? I'm glad you at least don't think Herm is a saint. You were making it sound like he had no blame, just like you're claiming everyone is saying Peterson had no blame. Middle ground people. There's a reason they're both gone.

[Otter]

Geez.

Gunther inherited a ridiculously talented team leftover from Marty. When Vermeil came in, Peterson bent over backwards for him to give him the right pieces immediately--gave him Roaf, Green, Wiegmann, Priest Holmes, Kennison, etc.... You can't even pretend that their situations going in were remotely similar.

Herm Edwards will never be a head coach in the NFL again. Do you think you're more versed on the subject than every NFL GM out there?

[chiefzilla1501]

Herm is a really horrendous coach that talks a big game.

I think zilla is trying to make the point that Herm Edwards was in a no win situation. He was left with no young core pieces and a GM who did not want to rebuild. That's Herms fault for taking the job seeing as he knew what he was getting himself into.

But at the same time I see the point he took over an aging declining team and wanted to build through the draft when you change styles to that degree there will be some very bad years.

You hit the nail completely on the head.

[Mecca]

Herm Edwards will never be a head coach in the NFL again. Do you think you're more versed on the subject than every NFL GM out there?

You should probably never say never considering some of the guys that have gotten another job over the years.

[Mecca]

You hit the nail completely on the head.

The thing that gets me is good or bad coach the think that prevails most of all is talent.

The Chiefs are still one of the poorest talented teams in the league so when I see some people saying the Chiefs will win 8 games because of Haley I want to know what they're smoking.

[chiefzilla1501]

Herm Edwards will never be a head coach in the NFL again. Do you think you're more versed on the subject than every NFL GM out there?

You say that statement as if it was a direct fact. Nevermind that he was a lot more respected around the league than he was by the fans. Clark Hunt was quick to trash Peterson, but very reluctant to get rid of Herm. And even though he gave Pioli complete license to hire and fire, even Pioli took his time on firing him. I believe Herm is a lot more respected around the league than you like to believe.

[luv]

The thing that gets me is good or bad coach the think that prevails most of all is talent.

The Chiefs are still one of the poorest talented teams in the league so when I see some people saying the Chiefs will win 8 games because of Haley I want to know what they're smoking.

I'd like to think 6-10.

[Skip Towne]

Herm Edwards will never be a head coach in the NFL again. Do you think you're more versed on the subject than every NFL GM out there?

I haven't noticed anyone trying to snap him up. Peterson wasn't very good but other coaches managed to win under him. Not Herm. Clark had to fire both of them to prevent mass exodus from Arrowhead.

[Mecca]

I'd like to think 6-10.

I think 6 is a best case scenario at this point, they have a harder schedule this year than they did last year.

[Otter]

You say that statement as if it was a direct fact. Nevermind that he was a lot more respected around the league than he was by the fans. Clark Hunt was quick to trash Peterson, but very reluctant to get rid of Herm. And even though he gave Pioli complete license to hire and fire, even Pioli took his time on firing him. I believe Herm is a lot more respected around the league than you like to believe.

Liked and respected are two very different feelings when it comes to business. Please don't confuse the two.

You didn't answer the question.

[The Franchise]

I think 6 is a best case scenario at this point, they have a harder schedule this year than they did last year.

I'm going 4-12.

[Mecca]

Liked and respected are two very different feelings when it comes to business. Please don't confuse the two.

You didn't answer the question.

John Gruden doesn't have a coaching job right now, I'm pretty sure he's a better coach than several guys that have them.

[luv]

I think 6 is a best case scenario at this point, they have a harder schedule this year than they did last year.

I'd just like to say thank you for responding to me in this thread and not just overlooking me.

Anyway, I'd love to think that the two Raiders and two Broncos games will be ours. Maybe San Diego at home. Not really sure about the other one, but luck has to come in somewhere. :)

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm going 4-12.

Oakland once, Denver once, and who else?

[chiefzilla1501]

The thing that gets me is good or bad coach the think that prevails most of all is talent.

The Chiefs are still one of the poorest talented teams in the league so when I see some people saying the Chiefs will win 8 games because of Haley I want to know what they're smoking.

True. But I thought Herm at least got the ball moving on the right track. Having a playoff-talented team is both about having starters and depth. And I think he brought in some real good starters like Bowe, Dorsey, Albert, Flowers, Carr, Page... very arguably Pollard, and some real good quality depth in Tyler, McBride, Charles, Hali, and maybe a few others within time. Not too bad, given that he was given practically no free agency money to work with and considering that he started completely from scratch. I think had we had a 4-3 coach come in in 2009, he would have had a really solid foundation to work with.

But again, that's only on the personnel side. I agree completely that he would have never been a good enough executional coach to get those guys to consistently win a lot of games.

[chiefzilla1501]

Liked and respected are two very different feelings when it comes to business. Please don't confuse the two.

You didn't answer the question.

How do you want me to answer the question? He's working for a TV network that gives him a cooshy job and is only one year removed from being in the NFL. Your speculation that he's not respected in the NFL is just as worthless as my speculation that he was. To claim that he's not respected and will never get a job in the NFL again is completely unproveable.

[Mecca]

I'd just like to say thank you for responding to me in this thread and not just overlooking me.

Anyway, I'd love to think that the two Raiders and two Broncos games will be ours. Maybe San Diego at home. Not really sure about the other one, but luck has to come in somewhere. :)

I will never pick them to beat Denver in Denver till I see it happen...just the same as there's no way I'm picking them to beat the Chargers.

Cleveland is winnable..I expect them to get waxed by the entire NFC East...

[Hammock Parties]

Gunther is apparently respected in the NFL, too.

It doesn't mean shit.

Which makes your point about Herm worthless.

[Just Passin' By]

I think most people would acknowledge most of the Chiefs issues of today are the fault of Dick Vermiels old man win right now philosophy. He didn't care about drafting or developing players he was to old to have time for that.

Hell he didn't even seem to want to learn new players names.

The Chiefs suck because the drafts have sucked ass since before Vermeil came on board, and free agency hasn't been good enough to pick up the slack.

Edwards sucks as a coach for reasons independent of the talent on the team. When your head coach needs an assistant just for clock management, it's just not a good sign.

[luv]

I will never pick them to beat Denver in Denver till I see it happen...just the same as there's no way I'm picking them to beat the Chargers.

Cleveland is winnable..I expect them to get waxed by the entire NFC East...

Hey, we almost beat San Diego last year. I tend to be optimistic. And I forgot about Cleveland. I was also rethinking both Broncos games due to the game in Denver, but, again, optimistic.

[Mecca]

The players drafted when Vermiels years are the ones that should be in their primes today, his misses are what really makes the team awful today.

[Skip Towne]

The Chiefs suck because the drafts have sucked ass since before Vermeil came on board, and free agency hasn't been good enough to pick up the slack.

Edwards sucks as a coach for reasons independent of the talent on the team. When your head coach needs an assistant just for clock management, it's just not a good sign.

Even then he picked Dick Curl. He's about as inept as they come.

[Mecca]

Hey, we almost beat San Diego last year. I tend to be optimistic. And I forgot about Cleveland. I was also rethinking both Broncos games due to the game in Denver, but, again, optimistic.

They have some tossup type games like Cincy and Buffalo....

Buffalo is either going to be a big surprise or a total fall on it's face failure this year. I'm leaning to the first since Owens is always on top of his game and on his best behavior his first year.

[Just Passin' By]

Even then he picked Dick Curl. He's about as inept as they come.

Indeed. It's not a matter of apportioning blame for the Chiefs' current predicament. It's a matter of flushing the toilet. The GM is gone. The head coach and a lot of assistants are gone. The scouting staff is gone. A lot of players are gone.

Over the course of the next year, there will probably be some more changes among the assistants, and there will likely be a continued house cleaning of the <strike>stiffs</strike> players drafted and signed before Pioli's arrival, as the flushing of the turds gets finished. If I were a Chiefs fan, I wouldn't start focusing on the team's record until at least year 3 of the new regime.

But none of this will magically transform Herm Edwards into a better than terrible NFL head coach.

[Mecca]

I wouldn't say they drafted all stiffs but they did draft a bunch of guys who don't fit Pioli's preferred defense.

[Skip Towne]

Has anybody mentioned Herm's ability to kill QB's. How many did he kill between us and the Jets?

[Just Passin' By]

I wouldn't say they drafted all stiffs but they did draft a bunch of guys who don't fit Pioli's preferred defense.

I don't think I said that every draft pick was a stiff, but this is not a successful draft history from 2000-2006:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=2310&type=team

and, while the jury's still out on 2007 and 2008, I don't think 2007 is looking very good. Herm has been a terrible head coach, but it'd be tough for Lombardi to compete with that kind of drafting. The full flush is what's needed in K.C.

[Mecca]

I got busted on for saying I thought some of those drafts were pretty bad...

I think Tamba Hali is going to look like a total abomination this year.

[FAX]

I said it so many times, it feels like one of Mr. billay's reposts. But, where did people get the idea that Herm was a personnel genius? He sure had that reputation around here with some fans.

Is it merely because he was, once upon a time, a scout? Or, did he find some diamond in the rough in Tampa or NY? Anybody know? His draft history with the Chiefs will turn out to be a little less than spectacular, I'm afraid.

FAX

[Just Passin' By]

I got busted on for saying I thought some of those drafts were pretty bad...

I think Tamba Hali is going to look like a total abomination this year.

Hali and Tyler are both under the microscope, I expect. Really, would you be shocked if one, or both, of them got cut or traded before the start of the season?

[DeezNutz]

Title of this thread should be "To Chiefsplanet:"

[el borracho]

Overall: 54-74
Herm's Chiefs: 15-33
Last 4 seasons as head coach: 19-45

Herm was a disaster as a head coach who deserves every bit of criticism he receives.

[Hammock Parties]

Last 4 seasons as head coach: 19-45


Flustrating.

http://deadspin.com/assets/resources/2007/12/herm.jpg

[OnTheWarpath15]

Title of this thread should be "To Chiefsplanet:"

LMAO

[SenselessChiefsFan]

I'm tired of all the blame going to Herm. Yes, Herm had his share of blunders but the amount of hate that he gets is ridiculous. The biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating the impact of Jared Allen. And I did too at the time. In 2007, the Chiefs almost had a top 10 defense despite their terrible offense. We know what happened in 2008. But we are quick to forget the defense of 2007. I'm not saying the Herm was a great coach, but he is not as bad as some here believe.

Just to irritate you, lets take a look at what might have been if Herm had stuck around.

-First the acquisition of Cassell never happens. Herm sticks with Thigpen and Gailey runs the system that worked well in the latter half of the season.

-The switch to the 3-4 never happens and the Chiefs continue to run a 4-3 defense.

-Most likely, no notable free agents are picked up.

-Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs.

-The draft rolls around and Herm takes the safe route as usual and picks the following players:

1. Aaron Curry
2. Everette Brown (Herm likes this pick bc of the desperate need for a pass rusher to replace Jared Allen who was lost in 07 and the success of another small DE Dwight Freeney with the Colts where his role model Tony Dungy coached.)
3. Antione Caldwell (Mal Moore leadership award winner is drafted here) Herm kinda player. And can play all line positions but primarily C or G.
4. Louis Murphy (Herm picks a wide out for the needed depth and Murphy provide some speed.)
5. Jasper Brinkley (Tough middle linebacker probably starts.)
6. Andrew Gardner (RT tackle pushes or replaces McIntosh)
7. Captain Munnerlyn (CB and returner)
7. Ricky Jean-Francois (depth at DT)
7. Ryan Succop K


And to top it off. After speaking with Tony Dungy about Michael Vick, who has been mentoring Vick, Herm trusts Dungy and decides to give Vick a shot at backing up Tyler Thigpen.


Would all of this happened... probably not, but it is interesting to think about what might have been if Herm and Carl would have stayed. Again, I don't think Herm is great and I definitely don't think Carl was good, but I do wonder what might have happened. I do like the draft above much better than our current one, and I do like that we still would have Tony G.

I think Herm gets a bit of a raw deal as well. I am happy that he is gone, but I do think he could have succeeded given different circumstances.

With that said, peoples minds are made up about Herm. And, given that he is no longer coaching in the NFL.... and the fact that he isn't pursuing a job, and that no team will be bending over backwards to get him..... his legacy is set.

The best thing that can happen for Herm is that fans forget him. Even if he was right on all the draft picks, the haters will give the new coaches more credit. Even if he was wrong on all the draft picks, the Herm supporters will blame the new coaches and new schemes.

It is very hard to be unbiased with anything to do with sports, especially if it is your favorite team.

Starting threads like this will just continue to perpetuate the hate. The best thing that can happen is for the Chiefs to have a good year, and put the optimism in the future and Herm in the past.

Again, not saying you don't have any meritt with the post, just pointing out that some battles are pointless.

[2112]

I think Lia and Herm Edwards are ChiefsPlanet posters. really, I do. she had an account on a Jet board from what I heard. :D

[Skip Towne]

To keep a HC job in the NFL you must win or at least show progress toward winning. Herm did neither at the Jets or us. Only a fool would hire him as a HC.

[Norman Einstein]

Wrong again. Herm said he would have taken Curry on ESPN.

And he would have taken Joe Montana in the first round of the draft, then picked up Marino in the second.

[Norman Einstein]

I think Herm gets a bit of a raw deal as well. I am happy that he is gone, but I do think he could have succeeded given different circumstances.

With that said, peoples minds are made up about Herm. And, given that he is no longer coaching in the NFL.... and the fact that he isn't pursuing a job, and that no team will be bending over backwards to get him..... his legacy is set.

The best thing that can happen for Herm is that fans forget him. Even if he was right on all the draft picks, the haters will give the new coaches more credit. Even if he was wrong on all the draft picks, the Herm supporters will blame the new coaches and new schemes.

It is very hard to be unbiased with anything to do with sports, especially if it is your favorite team.

Starting threads like this will just continue to perpetuate the hate. The best thing that can happen is for the Chiefs to have a good year, and put the optimism in the future and Herm in the past.

Again, not saying you don't have any meritt with the post, just pointing out that some battles are pointless.

So, are you and the OP'r siamese twins? Joined the same month and year and agree about Herman f*****g Edwards? Virtually nobody in KC has warm fuzzy feelings about that zero talent HC.

[Bugeater]

Clock management is one of the worst handled things in the NFL. You'd almost think these guys should play Madden for a couple hours and they might figure it out. When a Madden player can manage the clock better than an NFL coach, that's a problem.
Yes, because playing a fucking video game is just like being on the sideline during an NFL game. :rolleyes:

[2112]

Yes, because playing a ****ing video game is just like being on the sideline during an NFL game. :rolleyes:

So Profound that statement is n00b


ROFL

[MahiMike]

Hold on here just a gol dang minute! Are you trying to say someone out there DOESN'T hate Herm?

I'm confused.

[2112]

I'll leave it at this. watching a Herm coached team made you feel hopeless. and it was also like being water boarded or tortured. even if he had the greatest talent in the world he wouldn't change his stubborn idiotic way of coaching.

Put Joe Montana at qb....the hogs for an o line and Jerry Rice and Paul Warfield at wr and he would still coach the same exact way hes been coaching.

[Skip Towne]

I'll leave it at this. watching a Herm coached team made you feel hopeless. and it was also like being water boarded or tortured. even if he had the greatest talent in the world he wouldn't change his stubborn idiotic way of coaching.

Put Joe Montana at qb....the hogs for an o line and Jerry Rice and Paul Warfield at wr and he would still coach the same exact way hes been coaching.
Agreed. Case in point was the Colts playoff game. He kept jamming LJ into the line gaining nothing. But he kept doing it even into 9 in the box. Herm doesn't understand adjustments to what the other team is doing. Herm just doesn't get it.

[Bwana]

"As much"?

Carl Peterson ****ed this team up well before Herm ever came into town. Herm didn't do a great job of coaching, but Carl Peterson did a horrendous job in general management. Peterson deserves the majority of the blame. It amazes me that people actually struggle to see how bad of shape Peterson left this team after Vermeil left. No coach could have turned this team into a winner in those three years.

Bullshit! Herm was a complete **** up, with a lot of lip service and zero action.

[Nzoner]

Agreed. Case in point was the Colts playoff game. He kept jamming LJ into the line gaining nothing. But he kept doing it even into 9 in the box. Herm doesn't understand adjustments to what the other team is doing. Herm just doesn't get it.

And yet the week prior in a must win game he pulled out all the tricks for a very entertaining win and then said on sportscenter in must win games you do whatever you have to.

So my question in regards to the Indy play-off game,"Uh Herm,WTF was that if not a must win game?"

Herm=Dipshit

[Skip Towne]

Bullshit! Herm was a complete fuck up, with a lot of lip service and not action.

That's right. Why wasn't Peterson able to keep Marty down? Marty won as many games as Stram.

[luv]

That's right. Why wasn't Peterson able to keep Marty down? Marty won as many games as Stram.

In the regular season. Don't worry, I'm agreeing with you on Herm. Just saying that winning is great until you lose when it matters.

[Skip Towne]

In the regular season. Don't worry, I'm agreeing with you on Herm. Just saying that winning is great until you lose when it matters.

Marty ALWAYS got us into the playoffs. And on Monday Night Football. He has more than 200 wins. We haven't won like that since he left. It will be a long time before we have another coach that good. I miss being feared like we were under Stram and Marty.

[DeezNutz]

Marty ALWAYS got us into the playoffs. And on Monday Night Football. He has more than 200 wins. We haven't won like that since he left. It will be a long time before we have another coach that good. I miss being feared like we were under Stram and Marty.

I was fooled by Herm and Gunther's rhetoric and empty promises of building a powerhouse defense.

[Chiefnj2]

Herm was a defensive minded coach who focussed on building the defense first. After 3 years that D was one of the worst in the league (along with a horrible offense and poor ST's).

[Skip Towne]

I was fooled by Herm and Gunther's rhetoric and empty promises of building a powerhouse defense.

Marty won from the day he set foot in KC. And he won before that and after that. He always had great defenses but little offense. Stram was the same way. He won a lot of 13-6 games.

[DeezNutz]

Marty won from the day he set foot in KC. And he won before that and after that. He always had great defenses but little offense. Stram was the same way. He won a lot of 13-6 games.

The evidence of Marty's failures in the post-season is too much to ignore, so he has to be own it.

That said, think about his final playoff loss in SD. After the INT, all the dude needed to do was get down. Instead, he fumbles. This isn't on Marty.

I've never heard anyone claim that a Marty team was ill prepared, so you know all of the fundamentals are covered. Sometimes things just happen...

[Chiefnj2]

Marty won from the day he set foot in KC. And he won before that and after that. He always had great defenses but little offense. Stram was the same way. He won a lot of 13-6 games.

The offense wasn't as horrible as people remember. They folded in the playoffs, but in the regular season he fielded a top 10 scoring offense for 5 years. (top 15, 8 years).

[Reerun_KC]

Someone needs to get Chiefzilla a towel...

I think he has some love juice on his chin!

[Marcellus]

We are less than 4 days away from the opening of training camp with a new GM and coach and there is a fucking Herm Edwards thread at the top of the forum.

Good fucking grief. Get the fuck over it.

[LaChapelle]

Bullshit on past drafts. Herm was going to live or die by one of his draft choices. Brodie Croyle.

[Titty Meat]

This game shows how shitty of a coach Herm is http://www.mywavv.com/Scripts/ChiefsvsBucs2008.htm

[the Talking Can]

I'll leave it at this. watching a Herm coached team made you feel hopeless.

bingo

[Jethopper]

I'm tired of all the blame going to Herm. Yes, Herm had his share of blunders but the amount of hate that he gets is ridiculous. The biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating the impact of Jared Allen. And I did too at the time. In 2007, the Chiefs almost had a top 10 defense despite their terrible offense. We know what happened in 2008. But we are quick to forget the defense of 2007. I'm not saying the Herm was a great coach, but he is not as bad as some here believe.

Just to irritate you, lets take a look at what might have been if Herm had stuck around.

-First the acquisition of Cassell never happens. Herm sticks with Thigpen and Gailey runs the system that worked well in the latter half of the season.

-The switch to the 3-4 never happens and the Chiefs continue to run a 4-3 defense.

-Most likely, no notable free agents are picked up.

-Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs.

-The draft rolls around and Herm takes the safe route as usual and picks the following players:

1. Aaron Curry
2. Everette Brown (Herm likes this pick bc of the desperate need for a pass rusher to replace Jared Allen who was lost in 07 and the success of another small DE Dwight Freeney with the Colts where his role model Tony Dungy coached.)
3. Antione Caldwell (Mal Moore leadership award winner is drafted here) Herm kinda player. And can play all line positions but primarily C or G.
4. Louis Murphy (Herm picks a wide out for the needed depth and Murphy provide some speed.)
5. Jasper Brinkley (Tough middle linebacker probably starts.)
6. Andrew Gardner (RT tackle pushes or replaces McIntosh)
7. Captain Munnerlyn (CB and returner)
7. Ricky Jean-Francois (depth at DT)
7. Ryan Succop K


And to top it off. After speaking with Tony Dungy about Michael Vick, who has been mentoring Vick, Herm trusts Dungy and decides to give Vick a shot at backing up Tyler Thigpen.


Would all of this happened... probably not, but it is interesting to think about what might have been if Herm and Carl would have stayed. Again, I don't think Herm is great and I definitely don't think Carl was good, but I do wonder what might have happened. I do like the draft above much better than our current one, and I do like that we still would have Tony G.


RETARDED

[chiefzilla1501]

I'll leave it at this. watching a Herm coached team made you feel hopeless. and it was also like being water boarded or tortured. even if he had the greatest talent in the world he wouldn't change his stubborn idiotic way of coaching.

Put Joe Montana at qb....the hogs for an o line and Jerry Rice and Paul Warfield at wr and he would still coach the same exact way hes been coaching.

I suppose that's why he openly moved from a West Coast Offense to giving Chan Gailey free reign to run a completely wide open spread offense?

And throwing out the W-L record is completely fucking retarded. Basically, the starting lineup Herm Edwards inherited was: Trent Green, Jordan Black, Will Shields, Casey Wiegmann, Brian Waters, Kevin Sampson, LJ, Tony Richardson, Tony Gonzalez, Eddie Kennison, Samie Parker, Dante Hall on offense. Guess what? Only 5 of those players (Gonzalez, T-Rich, Wiegmann, and Waters) are starters today, and NONE of them are under the age of 30. On defense, he inherited Jared Allen, Ryan Sims, Junior Siavii, John Browning, Derrick Johnson, Kawika Mitchell, Shawn Barber, Kendrell Bell, Dexter McCleon, Patrick Surtain, Jerome Woods, and Greg Wesley. Guess what? Only three of those guys are starters. You need 22 starters in this league. And Vermeil/Peterson left Herm Edwards with only 8. And only half of those guys are under 30. And one of those guys, Jared Allen, was traded away because our GM went on an ego trip.

Give me a fucking break. I'm not an Obama supporter by any means, but that's like blaming Obama for the subprime mortgage crisis even though he wasn't even President when it happened!

NO COACH could have inherited the mess that was the KC CHiefs and had a winning record. Thank god mecca has an intelligent head on his shoulders and recognizes that the main reason this team is fucked up is not because of Herm Edwards, but the fact that Carl Peterson fucked up 10 years of drafts and free agencies.

[chiefzilla1501]

Someone needs to get Chiefzilla a towel...

I think he has some love juice on his chin!

I don't know how many times I have to point out that I thought Herm Edwards was a flawed head coach. But people want to point out his W-L record as if that was all his fault.

This team was fucked from 2006-2008, regardless of who was coaching.

[chiefzilla1501]

Marty won from the day he set foot in KC. And he won before that and after that. He always had great defenses but little offense. Stram was the same way. He won a lot of 13-6 games.

First, Marty was known to be one of the best coaches in the game when it comes to evaluating and preparing players. No doubt he was hands down better than Herm as a coach.

But he also walked in with a fresh GM committed to making a big splash in the NFL. Over time, Peterson got wrapped up in loyalties. He stopped hiring coaches based on their track record, he started hiring coaches/coordinators based on how well he knew them. Interesting to note that Gunther/Vermeil/Herm all had long-standing, previous relationships with Peterson before they were hired.

It was this loyalty that led to the hiring and retention of Lynn Stiles, even though he fucked up multiple drafts. And it was his notorious hardball tactics that led to reports of agents doing everything in their power not to negotiate with the Chiefs.

So the Carl Peterson during the Marty era was markedly different from the CP during the Vermeil/Herm era. He used to be about the team. Toward the end, he was all about protecting his friends.

[Chiefnj2]

First, Marty was known to be one of the best coaches in the game when it comes to evaluating and preparing players. No doubt he was hands down better than Herm as a coach.

But he also walked in with a fresh GM committed to making a big splash in the NFL. Over time, Peterson got wrapped up in loyalties. He stopped hiring coaches based on their track record, he started hiring coaches/coordinators based on how well he knew them. Interesting to note that Gunther/Vermeil/Herm all had long-standing, previous relationships with Peterson before they were hired.

It was this loyalty that led to the hiring and retention of Lynn Stiles, even though he ****ed up multiple drafts. And it was his notorious hardball tactics that led to reports of agents doing everything in their power not to negotiate with the Chiefs.

So the Carl Peterson during the Marty era was markedly different from the CP during the Vermeil/Herm era. He used to be about the team. Toward the end, he was all about protecting his friends.

Each coach is free to put his own stamp on his team. DV was offensive minded and was able to build a great offense with the guys he picked up - Green, Roaf, Holmes, Kennison, Weigmann, etc.

Who did the great defensive guru, Herm Edwards, pick up to improve the defense? His two best players (Allen and DJ) were Vermeil picks.

Who told Herm to go with Brody Croyle as the face of the franchise? Who told him to dismantle a good special teams? Who told him to run LJ into the ground? If not for Vermeil's second greatest draft pick, Colquitt, Herm Edwards would have been lucky to win a single game the last two years.

Herm had three years of full drafts to do something and he crapped himself.

[Mecca]

Bullshit on past drafts. Herm was going to live or die by one of his draft choices. Brodie Croyle.

I honestly can't believe someone thought Brodie Croyle was a legit QB of the future, that one was pretty mind boggling.

[Titty Meat]

I honestly can't believe someone thought Brodie Croyle was a legit QB of the future, that one was pretty mind boggling.

but but but but but but but he set all the school touchdown records at Alabama

[Mecca]

but but but but but but but he set all the school touchdown records at Alabama

And my response would be, who the fuck has played at Alabama? Exactly.

[Skip Towne]

And my response would be, who the fuck has played at Alabama? Exactly.

Joe Namath?

[Mecca]

Joe Namath?

I knew that was coming but the simple answer to that is. The passing game today and when he played are massively different.

[Titty Meat]

And my response would be, who the **** has played at Alabama? Exactly.

I was never a Croyle fan either infact I used to post on another Chiefs message board and I would rip on him, Huard, Dante Hall, and Herm. I was the Mecca of Chiefshuddle lol

[Mecca]

I was never a Croyle fan either infact I used to post on another Chiefs message board and I would rip on him, Huard, Dante Hall, and Herm. I was the Mecca of Chiefshuddle lol

I'm really not that bad it's just the team sucks and I'm not going to say guys that aren't any good are good.

But that Hali, Pollard, Croyle draft drew a huge amount of venom from me I hated it.

[Reerun_KC]

You can hate on me Mecca. I was a Croyle supporter, yet his fragileness did us all in. Now we are hiding in shame...

[Reerun_KC]

Each coach is free to put his own stamp on his team. DV was offensive minded and was able to build a great offense with the guys he picked up - Green, Roaf, Holmes, Kennison, Weigmann, etc.

Who did the great defensive guru, Herm Edwards, pick up to improve the defense? His two best players (Allen and DJ) were Vermeil picks.

Who told Herm to go with Brody Croyle as the face of the franchise? Who told him to dismantle a good special teams? Who told him to run LJ into the ground? If not for Vermeil's second greatest draft pick, Colquitt, Herm Edwards would have been lucky to win a single game the last two years.

Herm had three years of full drafts to do something and he crapped himself.

QFT

Very Very nice post... Couldnt of said it better myself!

[milkman]

His claim was that Herm had a chance to rebuild and only won 6 games in 2 seasons.

The truth is, Herm wanted to rebuilt immediately and especially after the first season and Peterson outright refused to listen. And so, in 2008, it was two years too late and the team was in complete disarray. This is pretty much common knowledge right now. And to make matters worse, our GM did ZERO due diligence on the entire coaching staff and hired the two coordinators from within instead of at least looking at outside options.

The truth is, Herm inherited a shitty team and was never given much opportunity to make it his own. I don't know how anyone can claim otherwise, no matter what you think about his coaching style.

God damn it.

How many fucking times do we have to go over this?

You are making assumprtions based on only what you think, but everything we heard and read from day one that Hermna fucking Edwards was hired said that the coaching staff was picked by Herman fucking Edwards.

He interviewed each and every coach on the staff and shitcanned the ones he didn't want, and kept those that he did.
I'm sick of your dumb ass amaking the same unsubtantiated assertions.

Dumbfuck.

[chiefzilla1501]

Each coach is free to put his own stamp on his team. DV was offensive minded and was able to build a great offense with the guys he picked up - Green, Roaf, Holmes, Kennison, Weigmann, etc.

Who did the great defensive guru, Herm Edwards, pick up to improve the defense? His two best players (Allen and DJ) were Vermeil picks.

Who told Herm to go with Brody Croyle as the face of the franchise? Who told him to dismantle a good special teams? Who told him to run LJ into the ground? If not for Vermeil's second greatest draft pick, Colquitt, Herm Edwards would have been lucky to win a single game the last two years.

Herm had three years of full drafts to do something and he crapped himself.

The difference is that Carl Peterson went out of his way to get Vermeil his guys. He traded draft picks for Trent Green and threw a shitload of money for him. He let Vermeil hire his own coordinators, including Al Saunders, who he brought in from St. Louis. Roaf was also traded for with draft picks. In that time, the Chiefs brought in Roaf, Green, Holmes, Wiegmann, Kennison and spent a fortune on McCleon, Barber, Holliday, Surtain, Kendrell Bell. Not to mention that they gladly re-signed Gonzalez, Shields, and Waters.

During the Herm era, Peterson didn't even try to bring top free agents in. He scraped from the bottom of the barrel to bring in McIntosh and Napoleon Harris. And he refused to extend Jared Allen's contract.

You have seriously got to be kidding me. Like I said, because of mismanagement from Carl Peterson, the Chiefs needed about 15 starters to make this team competitive. You really think that you can accomplish that with 3 drafts and a pennyless free agency?

[Otter]

Don't argue with an idiot. Eventually people won't be able to tell the difference.

[kstater]

Yes, because playing a fucking video game is just like being on the sideline during an NFL game. :rolleyes:


LMAO Don't you know all you have to do is press the X button?

[Bwana]

Jesus :shake:

[L.A. Chieffan]

Herm sucks. The End.

[chiefzilla1501]

God damn it.

How many ****ing times do we have to go over this?

You are making assumprtions based on only what you think, but everything we heard and read from day one that Hermna ****ing Edwards was hired said that the coaching staff was picked by Herman ****ing Edwards.

He interviewed each and every coach on the staff and shitcanned the ones he didn't want, and kept those that he did.
I'm sick of your dumb ass amaking the same unsubtantiated assertions.

Dumb****.

God damn it.

How many ****ing times do we have to go over this?

You are making assumprtions based on only what you think, but everything we heard and read from day one that Hermna ****ing Edwards was hired said that the coaching staff was picked by Herman ****ing Edwards.

He interviewed each and every coach on the staff and shitcanned the ones he didn't want, and kept those that he did.
I'm sick of your dumb ass amaking the same unsubtantiated assertions.

Dumb****.

Ha. I knew you'd respond to this, because you're still floating around in fantasyland. OF COURSE Herm's going to say that he wanted Gun and Solari all along. You really think the day after Gun was hired, Herm is going to go to the media and throw a shit fit and scream and cuss about how Gunther Cunningham is a dipshit? Of course Peterson and Herm are going to say that Gun and Solari were Herm's choices. And to a limited extent, it might be true. I'm sure Herm sat down with both those guys, liked what he heard, and said he was okay with hiring either one of them. But that's not the way it's supposed to work. It was Carl Peterson's job to give Herm Edwards options. And Carl Peterson did not bring in a single coach outside of Kansas City to interview for coordinator positions. Being fine with hiring a coach, and being excited about hiring a coach are two entirely different things.

It was Carl Peterson's job to bring in options for Herm to look at. If Herm had a look at several coordinators and chose Gun and Solari, that'd be a different story. The fact that Peterson brought NOBODY in for a full week is a pretty strong indication that Peterson told Herm it was Solari/Gun or bust.

Saying that Carl Peterson had 100% control over who was hired and who was interviewed is not an assumption. It's a fact. Good GMs bring open competition for coaching vacancies. Carl Peterson had a history of refusing to bring in outside coaches/coordinators for interviews. If you still dispute that, answer me why when Greg Robinson was fired, the only guys the Chiefs interviewed were two of Vermeil's assistants and Gunther Cunningham. The fact that the two coordinators were hired without bringing in a single interview candidate outside the organization... that is Carl Peterson's fault.

[Bwana]

.

[kstater]

LMAO

[The Franchise]

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/the_sporting_blog/entry/view/29064/mount_failmore_worst._coaches._ever.

Herm Edwards: He'll be most known for his impassioned 'you play to win the game' speech. Too bad he can't coach as well as he can talk. In eight years, Edwards winning percentage is just .422 and is 2-4 in his six playoff games in that span. While he does have four winning seasons on his resume, he has twice as many years with double-digit losses than wins.

[The Franchise]

Ha. I knew you'd respond to this, because you're still floating around in fantasyland. OF COURSE Herm's going to say that he wanted Gun and Solari all along. You really think the day after Gun was hired, Herm is going to go to the media and throw a shit fit and scream and cuss about how Gunther Cunningham is a dipshit? Of course Peterson and Herm are going to say that Gun and Solari were Herm's choices. And to a limited extent, it might be true. I'm sure Herm sat down with both those guys, liked what he heard, and said he was okay with hiring either one of them. But that's not the way it's supposed to work. It was Carl Peterson's job to give Herm Edwards options. And Carl Peterson did not bring in a single coach outside of Kansas City to interview for coordinator positions. Being fine with hiring a coach, and being excited about hiring a coach are two entirely different things.

It was Carl Peterson's job to bring in options for Herm to look at. If Herm had a look at several coordinators and chose Gun and Solari, that'd be a different story. The fact that Peterson brought NOBODY in for a full week is a pretty strong indication that Peterson told Herm it was Solari/Gun or bust.

Saying that Carl Peterson had 100% control over who was hired and who was interviewed is not an assumption. It's a fact. Good GMs bring open competition for coaching vacancies. Carl Peterson had a history of refusing to bring in outside coaches/coordinators for interviews. If you still dispute that, answer me why when Greg Robinson was fired, the only guys the Chiefs interviewed were two of Vermeil's assistants and Gunther Cunningham. The fact that the two coordinators were hired without bringing in a single interview candidate outside the organization... that is Carl Peterson's fault.

Don't you think that maybe it was brought up before the hiring? I'm sure Carl said...."Hey Herm....we're going to bring you in as our headcoach but we want to keep Solari as your OC and Gun as your DC. You can either accept that or not accept the job".

According to you it went..."Hey Herm...welcome to the Chiefs! You're stuck with Solari and Gun.....GOTCHA BITCH!"

[chiefzilla1501]

Don't you think that maybe it was brought up before the hiring? I'm sure Carl said...."Hey Herm....we're going to bring you in as our headcoach but we want to keep Solari as your OC and Gun as your DC. You can either accept that or not accept the job".

According to you it went..."Hey Herm...welcome to the Chiefs! You're stuck with Solari and Gun.....GOTCHA BITCH!"

Well, keep in mind that Herm and CP were best friends coming into the Chiefs relationship, and worst enemies by the time both left. And their relationship soured because Peterson never listened to Edwards. That, to me, suggests that Herm did not realize that Peterson was going to turn out to be the ultra-stubborn ass that he was in his final years. So I don't think it's outrageous to think that he didn't know before being hired that he'd be stuck with the same coordinators.

But again, I don't think Herm was terribly upset about hiring either one. But the point I continue to make is that he should have been given the choice to openly interview multiple candidates and choose the best one. The failure to bring other candidates in falls squarely from up-top. Yes, it's an assumption, but I think a lot of us would agree that if there was an open competition for the coordinator position, it is highly doubtful that he would have hired both Gun and Solari.

[milkman]

Well, keep in mind that Herm and CP were best friends coming into the Chiefs relationship, and worst enemies by the time both left. And their relationship soured because Peterson never listened to Edwards. That, to me, suggests that Herm did not realize that Peterson was going to turn out to be the ultra-stubborn ass that he was in his final years. So I don't think it's outrageous to think that he didn't know before being hired that he'd be stuck with the same coordinators.

But again, I don't think Herm was terribly upset about hiring either one. But the point I continue to make is that he should have been given the choice to openly interview multiple candidates and choose the best one. The failure to bring other candidates in falls squarely from up-top. Yes, it's an assumption, but I think a lot of us would agree that if there was an open competition for the coordinator position, it is highly doubtful that he would have hired both Gun and Solari.

You are full of shit.

When Herman fucking Edwards was hired, he was allowed to interview all the staff left over from teh Vermeil regime, and allowed to send the ones he chose not to have on his staff walk.

He kept the members of the staff that he wanted.

You are a fucktard.

[Chiefnj2]

Herm didn't have the balls to come in and get rid of Solari because the offense was flying high prior to his arrival. If he didn't keep some of the old staff he would faced a lot of pressure and Herm likes to deflect. When it didn't work it, hey- it wasn't me, it's the first year OC I hired. Herm said they weren't going to change the offense and they fucking neutered it and killed it.

[HemiEd]

Short of DTs and Joes passing, Herm is the worst thing that ever happened to this team.

[smittysbar]

God some people just can't get it........

[Reerun_KC]

Herm didn't have the balls to come in and get rid of Solari because the offense was flying high prior to his arrival. If he didn't keep some of the old staff he would faced a lot of pressure and Herm likes to deflect. When it didn't work it, hey- it wasn't me, it's the first year OC I hired. Herm said they weren't going to change the offense and they ****ing neutered it and killed it.

It was an easy way for him to deflect blame when he failed as usual!

[The Bad Guy]

His claim was that Herm had a chance to rebuild and only won 6 games in 2 seasons.

The truth is, Herm wanted to rebuilt immediately and especially after the first season and Peterson outright refused to listen. And so, in 2008, it was two years too late and the team was in complete disarray. This is pretty much common knowledge right now. And to make matters worse, our GM did ZERO due diligence on the entire coaching staff and hired the two coordinators from within instead of at least looking at outside options.

The truth is, Herm inherited a shitty team and was never given much opportunity to make it his own. I don't know how anyone can claim otherwise, no matter what you think about his coaching style.

I'd really like for you to show me where Herm wanted to tear it down year one and was overruled by Carl. I want direct quotes here because I've never, ever heard that except for bullshit conspiracy theories. I don't think Carl wanted to tear it down, but I sure as hell don't think Herm did either.

Herman Edwards has NEVER built a football team on his own that was successful. Ever. He inherited Parcells and Al Groh's leftovers. He left the Jets in a mess just like he left the Chiefs.

What exactly was he building with the Chiefs? They were the worst second half team I have ever seen. He went through QB's like water. He never, ever had a functional defensive gameplan. The playoff game that he lucked into showed how truly stubborn of an idiot he is.

So the GM hired Herm's assistants? Is that what you are telling me? Herm wanted Gunther in NY before the 2004 season.

It just has to ****ing stop already. Herm is a massive failure, who was praised for his ability to build a defense because of his "Tampa connections" and this defense was pure dogshit with the players he acquired. In Herm's first fucking game at Arrowhead, he decides to basically piss all over the see of red and wear white. It wasn't a hot day, there wasn't ridiculous humidity. He just changed for the sake of change.

If you are a Chiefs fan, and you defend that asshole or are sorry to see him go, please burn all your Chiefs shit and find a new team so we can have every single dark cloud away from this ****ing team and fanbase. Thank you.

[ClevelandBronco]

...Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs...

He should have retired as a career-long Chief.

[T-post Tom]

He should have retired as a career-long Chief.

Yeah, kinda like Shannon "Horseface-Elway Brutha-from-another-mutha" Sharpe should have retired as a career-long donk.

[Mecca]

I think Gonzalez got traded because he would scoff at some of these things they are doing...

[ClevelandBronco]

Yeah, kinda like Shannon "Horseface-Elway Brutha-from-another-mutha" Sharpe should have retired as a career-long donk.

Yep. I agree.

[FAX]

I'd really like for you to show me where Herm wanted to tear it down year one and was overruled by Carl. I want direct quotes here because I've never, ever heard that except for bullshit conspiracy theories. I don't think Carl wanted to tear it down, but I sure as hell don't think Herm did either.

Herman Edwards has NEVER built a football team on his own that was successful. Ever. He inherited Parcells and Al Groh's leftovers. He left the Jets in a mess just like he left the Chiefs.

What exactly was he building with the Chiefs? They were the worst second half team I have ever seen. He went through QB's like water. He never, ever had a functional defensive gameplan. The playoff game that he lucked into showed how truly stubborn of an idiot he is.

So the GM hired Herm's assistants? Is that what you are telling me? Herm wanted Gunther in NY before the 2004 season.

It just has to ****ing stop already. Herm is a massive failure, who was praised for his ability to build a defense because of his "Tampa connections" and this defense was pure dogshit with the players he acquired. In Herm's first ****ing game at Arrowhead, he decides to basically piss all over the see of red and wear white. It wasn't a hot day, there wasn't ridiculous humidity. He just changed for the sake of change.

If you are a Chiefs fan, and you defend that asshole or are sorry to see him go, please burn all your Chiefs shit and find a new team so we can have every single dark cloud away from this ****ing team and fanbase. Thank you.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

Damn. Just damn.

FAX

[ClevelandBronco]

I think Gonzalez got traded because he would scoff at some of these things they are doing...

He gets to coach later, maybe. For now he's a player.

[FAX]

I think Gonzalez got traded because he would scoff at some of these things they are doing...

They found Dick Cheney's fingerprints on the detonation plunger used to bring down the Challenger space shuttle, too.

FAX

[T-post Tom]

Yep. I agree.

I know your "style." :D [Cue Chinese music.]

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[ClevelandBronco]

I know your "style..."

I think I like it...

[chiefzilla1501]

I'd really like for you to show me where Herm wanted to tear it down year one and was overruled by Carl. I want direct quotes here because I've never, ever heard that except for bullshit conspiracy theories. I don't think Carl wanted to tear it down, but I sure as hell don't think Herm did either.
Sorry, my internet connection sucks right now so this is the quote that I can quickly reference:
"There was reportedly a deep philosophical divide between former Chiefs GM and President Carl Peterson and coach Herm Edwards. The two got along at first, but Herm's desire to rebuild was met at every step with resistance from Peterson. Chairman Clark Hunt sided with Herm in the offseason, but his upcoming GM hire may still want his own coach in place. Edwards' future remains very up in the air, but another year would not surprise."

Add on to the fact that Clark Hunt gave every vote of confidence to Herm Edwards, but fired Carl Peterson before the season even ended. He even tried to convince Pioli to consider keeping Herm. I think we all agree by now that Clark Hunt is good at what he does. I thought I also once read that Herm was so frustrated with Peterson that he started to voice his complaints directly to Hunt. The way Peterson's firing went down... it sounds like Hunt is very sympathetic to what Herm Edwards went through. But what does Clark Hunt know? I mean, he's only the owner.

Herman Edwards has NEVER built a football team on his own that was successful. Ever. He inherited Parcells and Al Groh's leftovers. He left the Jets in a mess just like he left the Chiefs.
It's not like Parcells and Groh gave him a whole lot to work with. And it leaves out the point that the GM of the Jets was Terry Bradway, who is a notorious ****-up and a student of the Carl Peterson school of hard knocks. Besides, if he left the Jets in such a horrible state of disrepair, then why did that team make the playoffs the next season when they got a healthy Pennington back?

What exactly was he building with the Chiefs? They were the worst second half team I have ever seen. He went through QB's like water. He never, ever had a functional defensive gameplan. The playoff game that he lucked into showed how truly stubborn of an idiot he is.
Again, I don't dispute that he was a horrible gameday coach. But in that statement, you're mixing in his personnel side from his gameday side. On the personnel side, he did a pretty decent job and a lot of NFL analysts seemed to think so too. Pretty remarkable, given that Peterson bled the team dry and gave Herm almost no money to play with. Out of the draft alone, Herm brought in Bowe, Albert, Leggett, Flowers, Charles, Cox, Dorsey, Page... arguably Carr, Pollard, Turk, and Tank. From the personnel side, I thought he did a pretty decent job, given how little he was allowed to work with.

So the GM hired Herm's assistants? Is that what you are telling me? Herm wanted Gunther in NY before the 2004 season.
Hiring on all fronts is done by the GM. The coach usually has input. There is no excuse whatsoever for Carl Peterson to not at least brought in outside candidates for interview. And Peterson has a loooooonnnngggg track record of doing that. Vermeil, Herm, Solari, Gun, and Gun again were all hired without interviewing a single candidate (except for one token minority candidate).

It just has to ****ing stop already. Herm is a massive failure, who was praised for his ability to build a defense because of his "Tampa connections" and this defense was pure dogshit with the players he acquired. In Herm's first ****ing game at Arrowhead, he decides to basically piss all over the see of red and wear white. It wasn't a hot day, there wasn't ridiculous humidity. He just changed for the sake of change.
It has to stop that people exaggerate how bad Herm was. Herm was a flawed gameday coach, but he made some really good moves on the personnel side and it's clear to everyone but KC fans that he wasn't given the power to do what he wanted to do.

If you are a Chiefs fan, and you defend that asshole or are sorry to see him go, please burn all your Chiefs shit and find a new team so we can have every single dark cloud away from this ****ing team and fanbase. Thank you.
I never said I was sorry to see him go. But I am sorry that he had to go like this, with people blaming him for a lot of shit that he isn't to blame for. Joe Posnanski summed it up pretty well here, even if it's overly long-winded:
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/03/you-play-to-win-the-game/

[Chiefnj2]

He even tried to convince Pioli to consider keeping Herm. I think we all agree by now that Clark Hunt is good at what he does.

Link?

[the Talking Can]

blows my mind, how much chiefs fans love failure.....

[wild1]

I'd really like for you to show me where Herm wanted to tear it down year one and was overruled by Carl. I want direct quotes here because I've never, ever heard that except for bullshit conspiracy theories. I don't think Carl wanted to tear it down, but I sure as hell don't think Herm did either.

Herman Edwards has NEVER built a football team on his own that was successful. Ever. He inherited Parcells and Al Groh's leftovers. He left the Jets in a mess just like he left the Chiefs.

What exactly was he building with the Chiefs? They were the worst second half team I have ever seen. He went through QB's like water. He never, ever had a functional defensive gameplan. The playoff game that he lucked into showed how truly stubborn of an idiot he is.

So the GM hired Herm's assistants? Is that what you are telling me? Herm wanted Gunther in NY before the 2004 season.

It just has to ****ing stop already. Herm is a massive failure, who was praised for his ability to build a defense because of his "Tampa connections" and this defense was pure dogshit with the players he acquired. In Herm's first ****ing game at Arrowhead, he decides to basically piss all over the see of red and wear white. It wasn't a hot day, there wasn't ridiculous humidity. He just changed for the sake of change.

If you are a Chiefs fan, and you defend that asshole or are sorry to see him go, please burn all your Chiefs shit and find a new team so we can have every single dark cloud away from this ****ing team and fanbase. Thank you.

Perfect.

Carl was stubborn and misguided. He was outmoded in today's NFL and a poor evaluator of talent, particularly talent among candidates for the coaching staff. He favored loyalty over performance and was never willing to take risks or jeopardize what he had in hand to try to get something better. If the NFL were a poker game, Carl would have folded every hand until the ante had eaten his whole stack.

Herm was an incompetent. An invalid, a mental midget incapable at succeeding at anything. I do not bear Herm ill will for being incompetent. He simply has no business coaching a football team. Neither do I, but I'd give it a try if I had the chance too.

[Rooster]

I'd really like for you to show me where Herm wanted to tear it down year one and was overruled by Carl. I want direct quotes here because I've never, ever heard that except for bullshit conspiracy theories. I don't think Carl wanted to tear it down, but I sure as hell don't think Herm did either.

Herman Edwards has NEVER built a football team on his own that was successful. Ever. He inherited Parcells and Al Groh's leftovers. He left the Jets in a mess just like he left the Chiefs.

What exactly was he building with the Chiefs? They were the worst second half team I have ever seen. He went through QB's like water. He never, ever had a functional defensive gameplan. The playoff game that he lucked into showed how truly stubborn of an idiot he is.

So the GM hired Herm's assistants? Is that what you are telling me? Herm wanted Gunther in NY before the 2004 season.

It just has to ****ing stop already. Herm is a massive failure, who was praised for his ability to build a defense because of his "Tampa connections" and this defense was pure dogshit with the players he acquired. In Herm's first ****ing game at Arrowhead, he decides to basically piss all over the see of red and wear white. It wasn't a hot day, there wasn't ridiculous humidity. He just changed for the sake of change.

If you are a Chiefs fan, and you defend that asshole or are sorry to see him go, please burn all your Chiefs shit and find a new team so we can have every single dark cloud away from this ****ing team and fanbase. Thank you.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Tiger's Fan]

Sorry, my internet connection sucks right now so this is the quote that I can quickly reference:
"There was reportedly a deep philosophical divide between former Chiefs GM and President Carl Peterson and coach Herm Edwards. The two got along at first, but Herm's desire to rebuild was met at every step with resistance from Peterson. Chairman Clark Hunt sided with Herm in the offseason, but his upcoming GM hire may still want his own coach in place. Edwards' future remains very up in the air, but another year would not surprise."

Add on to the fact that Clark Hunt gave every vote of confidence to Herm Edwards, but fired Carl Peterson before the season even ended. He even tried to convince Pioli to consider keeping Herm. I think we all agree by now that Clark Hunt is good at what he does. I thought I also once read that Herm was so frustrated with Peterson that he started to voice his complaints directly to Hunt. The way Peterson's firing went down... it sounds like Hunt is very sympathetic to what Herm Edwards went through. But what does Clark Hunt know? I mean, he's only the owner.


It's not like Parcells and Groh gave him a whole lot to work with. And it leaves out the point that the GM of the Jets was Terry Bradway, who is a notorious ****-up and a student of the Carl Peterson school of hard knocks. Besides, if he left the Jets in such a horrible state of disrepair, then why did that team make the playoffs the next season when they got a healthy Pennington back?


Again, I don't dispute that he was a horrible gameday coach. But in that statement, you're mixing in his personnel side from his gameday side. On the personnel side, he did a pretty decent job and a lot of NFL analysts seemed to think so too. Pretty remarkable, given that Peterson bled the team dry and gave Herm almost no money to play with. Out of the draft alone, Herm brought in Bowe, Albert, Leggett, Flowers, Charles, Cox, Dorsey, Page... arguably Carr, Pollard, Turk, and Tank. From the personnel side, I thought he did a pretty decent job, given how little he was allowed to work with.


Hiring on all fronts is done by the GM. The coach usually has input. There is no excuse whatsoever for Carl Peterson to not at least brought in outside candidates for interview. And Peterson has a loooooonnnngggg track record of doing that. Vermeil, Herm, Solari, Gun, and Gun again were all hired without interviewing a single candidate (except for one token minority candidate).


It has to stop that people exaggerate how bad Herm was. Herm was a flawed gameday coach, but he made some really good moves on the personnel side and it's clear to everyone but KC fans that he wasn't given the power to do what he wanted to do.


I never said I was sorry to see him go. But I am sorry that he had to go like this, with people blaming him for a lot of shit that he isn't to blame for. Joe Posnanski summed it up pretty well here, even if it's overly long-winded:
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/03/you-play-to-win-the-game/

Everyone already knows you're a mouth breathing idiot so you can stfu.

[Reerun_KC]

Marty ALWAYS got us into the playoffs. And on Monday Night Football. He has more than 200 wins. We haven't won like that since he left. It will be a long time before we have another coach that good. I miss being feared like we were under Stram and Marty.


ROFL

Marty can ****ing die in a burning aids bush...

[Bwana]

I'd really like for you to show me where Herm wanted to tear it down year one and was overruled by Carl. I want direct quotes here because I've never, ever heard that except for bullshit conspiracy theories. I don't think Carl wanted to tear it down, but I sure as hell don't think Herm did either.

Herman Edwards has NEVER built a football team on his own that was successful. Ever. He inherited Parcells and Al Groh's leftovers. He left the Jets in a mess just like he left the Chiefs.

What exactly was he building with the Chiefs? They were the worst second half team I have ever seen. He went through QB's like water. He never, ever had a functional defensive gameplan. The playoff game that he lucked into showed how truly stubborn of an idiot he is.

So the GM hired Herm's assistants? Is that what you are telling me? Herm wanted Gunther in NY before the 2004 season.

It just has to ****ing stop already. Herm is a massive failure, who was praised for his ability to build a defense because of his "Tampa connections" and this defense was pure dogshit with the players he acquired. In Herm's first ****ing game at Arrowhead, he decides to basically piss all over the see of red and wear white. It wasn't a hot day, there wasn't ridiculous humidity. He just changed for the sake of change.

If you are a Chiefs fan, and you defend that asshole or are sorry to see him go, please burn all your Chiefs shit and find a new team so we can have every single dark cloud away from this ****ing team and fanbase. Thank you.

:thumb:

[The Bad Guy]

Sorry, my internet connection sucks right now so this is the quote that I can quickly reference:
"There was reportedly a deep philosophical divide between former Chiefs GM and President Carl Peterson and coach Herm Edwards. The two got along at first, but Herm's desire to rebuild was met at every step with resistance from Peterson. Chairman Clark Hunt sided with Herm in the offseason, but his upcoming GM hire may still want his own coach in place. Edwards' future remains very up in the air, but another year would not surprise."

What else was he going to say? He was on the hook to pay Herm this upcoming season. He wasn't just going to come out and fire him immediately after the season without a GM. No owner does that.

Add on to the fact that Clark Hunt gave every vote of confidence to Herm Edwards, but fired Carl Peterson before the season even ended. He even tried to convince Pioli to consider keeping Herm. I think we all agree by now that Clark Hunt is good at what he does. I thought I also once read that Herm was so frustrated with Peterson that he started to voice his complaints directly to Hunt. The way Peterson's firing went down... it sounds like Hunt is very sympathetic to what Herm Edwards went through. But what does Clark Hunt know? I mean, he's only the owner.

Again, the order they were fired means jack shit. Herm was getting paid whether he was an employee of the Chiefs or working for ESPN so what was the downside of keeping him around until Pioli canned him?


It's not like Parcells and Groh gave him a whole lot to work with. And it leaves out the point that the GM of the Jets was Terry Bradway, who is a notorious ****-up and a student of the Carl Peterson school of hard knocks. Besides, if he left the Jets in such a horrible state of disrepair, then why did that team make the playoffs the next season when they got a healthy Pennington back

Are you really making the point that the 2006 Jets team was a playoff team? That was the easiest schedule in NFL history.

Again, I don't dispute that he was a horrible gameday coach. But in that statement, you're mixing in his personnel side from his gameday side. On the personnel side, he did a pretty decent job and a lot of NFL analysts seemed to think so too. Pretty remarkable, given that Peterson bled the team dry and gave Herm almost no money to play with. Out of the draft alone, Herm brought in Bowe, Albert, Leggett, Flowers, Charles, Cox, Dorsey, Page... arguably Carr, Pollard, Turk, and Tank. From the personnel side, I thought he did a pretty decent job, given how little he was allowed to work with.

You're giving him credit for Mike Cox? Really? I'm sure that Chan Gailey had nothing to do with that one considering he coached him at GT. Anyone with a pulse is taking Glenn Dorsey 5th overall. I'll give him credit for Dwayne Bowe, Brandon Flowers and Brendan Albert. Everyone else is laughable at best. You're going to praise his picking Charles? What did Charles ever do? Leggett had a few good games, but Brackenridge did too and he fizzled out. Turk and Tank are shit - pure shit. Pollard was massively overdrafted. Yeah, bringing in 3 really good players is enough to consistently wash Herm's balls like you love to do constantly.

Herman Edwards job was COACH. If you aren't going to argue that he was a terrible gameday coach, then why argue anything. It's like saying a mechanic is a terrible mechanic, but he sure knows how to pick tools to work with. If he knows how to pick tools to work with, then he should be GOOD at his job. Herm is shit. Pure and simple. He has a .422 winning percentage. He brought in McIntosh, Napoleon Harris, overdrafted Tamba Hali, Turk McBride, Bernard Pollard, Brodie Croyle.


Hiring on all fronts is done by the GM. The coach usually has input. There is no excuse whatsoever for Carl Peterson to not at least brought in outside candidates for interview. And Peterson has a loooooonnnngggg track record of doing that. Vermeil, Herm, Solari, Gun, and Gun again were all hired without interviewing a single candidate (except for one token minority candidate).

It's a collaborative process, but you are wrong that it's done exclusively by the GM. I've never known one HC that allows the GM to pick his coaching staff. Do you really think Pioli hired Pendergast on his own accord?


It has to stop that people exaggerate how bad Herm was. Herm was a flawed gameday coach, but he made some really good moves on the personnel side and it's clear to everyone but KC fans that he wasn't given the power to do what he wanted to do.

Really good moves? Where? He drafted Dwayne Bowe when he was the top player rated at a need position. Albert was another no-brainer, along with Dorsey. I'll give him credit for Flowers.

What did he want to do that wasn't done? Do you get dizzy from going in circles?


I never said I was sorry to see him go. But I am sorry that he had to go like this, with people blaming him for a lot of shit that he isn't to blame for. Joe Posnanski summed it up pretty well here, even if it's overly long-winded:
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/01/03/you-play-to-win-the-game/

Yeah, I'm heartbroken that this puke lead us to 6 wins in 2 years and was fired. It's heartbreaking for every Herm ball-washer. I'm glad you are so easily brainwashed. Next you are going to tell me Gunther got a raw deal in 2000 as well.

I hate Carl Peterson with a passion. I hate Herm Edwards with a passion. You could have given Herman Edwards the 2008 NE Patriots and he would have found a way to lose with that team.

The Jets fans couldn't believe that the Chiefs would give a 4th rounder for him. It was like someone buying you land, and then building you a huge house on top of it.

My hope still stands that you can find a new team. Herm was a black eye to this organization and franchise, and with a new WINNING GM, and a coach who actually coordinated successful units (something Herm also never did), I'm done discussing him.

My heart is broken for Herm. He gets paid full salary this year to watch the games like I do. Thankfully, he will never, ever have another hand in impacting anything for my favorite team.

[DeezNutz]

I remember Herm's really good moves, like Hali, Pollard, McBride, and all the lower-level scrubs from last year's draft who have already been cut.

[Hammock Parties]

The only thing I don't agree with is Tank. I think he was a great pick and was our best defensive lineman last year. Pioli and Haley would not have slotted him as the starting nose tackle if he didn't have some ability.

[sportsman1]

Can we make a new rule that the word "Herm" is no longer allowed in thread titles? Quit living in the past!

[chiefzilla1501]

What else was he going to say? He was on the hook to pay Herm this upcoming season. He wasn't just going to come out and fire him immediately after the season without a GM. No owner does that.
Clark Hunt really liked Herm Edwards. I'm not even going to argue this point. Look on the internet for the 1,000 blogs/articles on this subject.

Are you really making the point that the 2006 Jets team was a playoff team? That was the easiest schedule in NFL history.
Ha. You said they were horrible. No horrible team makes the playoffs, regardless of the schedule. Herm left the Jets an average team. And that is consistent with the idea that that average team got some good breaks that got them into the playoffs.


I was going to argue the rest of your post point for point, but it's pretty clear that you have some weird vendetta against the man. There's no credibility in a person that hates a man so much that he goes out of his way to blame him for everything bad, but then make excuses or credit someone else when things go well. Look, we can argue until we're blue in the face. But in his short career, he's brought 4 teams to the playoffs. And with teams that weren't outstanding talent-wise. You guys can all come up with excuses. But that track record is better than a lot of coaches in the league. He's an average coach, but not the incompetent shit that you for some weird reason are set out to make him.

And I root for the Chiefs. Same team you root for. **** you for telling me to root for someone else as if you're some kind of an ambassador for Chiefs fans.

[milkman]

Clark Hunt really liked Herm Edwards. I'm not even going to argue this point. Look on the internet for the 1,000 blogs/articles on this subject.


Ha. You said they were horrible. No horrible team makes the playoffs, regardless of the schedule. Herm left the Jets an average team. And that is consistent with the idea that that average team got some good breaks that got them into the playoffs.


I was going to argue the rest of your post point for point, but it's pretty clear that you have some weird vendetta against the man. There's no credibility in a person that hates a man so much that he goes out of his way to blame him for everything bad, but then make excuses or credit someone else when things go well. Look, we can argue until we're blue in the face. But in his short career, he's brought 4 teams to the playoffs. And with teams that weren't outstanding talent-wise. You guys can all come up with excuses. But that track record is better than a lot of coaches in the league. He's an average coach, but not the incompetent shit that you for some weird reason are set out to make him.

And I root for the Chiefs. Same team you root for. **** you for telling me to root for someone else as if you're some kind of an ambassador for Chiefs fans.

You're a fucking idiot.

[chiefzilla1501]

You're a ****ing idiot.

Clark Hunt really liked Herm Edwards.
Herm Edwards took 4 teams to the playoffs, and those teams weren't loaded with talent.
Horrible coaches don't make the playoffs. Consistently.
Therefore, Herm Edwards is not horrible.

Feel free to argue against any of those points. That's what I said, summed up in a 5 second clip.

I love it when people resort to name-calling because they refuse to argue the points.

[Bwana]

Clark Hunt really liked Herm Edwards. I'm not even going to argue this point. Look on the internet for the 1,000 blogs/articles on this subject.


Ha. You said they were horrible. No horrible team makes the playoffs, regardless of the schedule. Herm left the Jets an average team. And that is consistent with the idea that that average team got some good breaks that got them into the playoffs.


I was going to argue the rest of your post point for point, but it's pretty clear that you have some weird vendetta against the man. There's no credibility in a person that hates a man so much that he goes out of his way to blame him for everything bad, but then make excuses or credit someone else when things go well. Look, we can argue until we're blue in the face. But in his short career, he's brought 4 teams to the playoffs. And with teams that weren't outstanding talent-wise. You guys can all come up with excuses. But that track record is better than a lot of coaches in the league. He's an average coach, but not the incompetent shit that you for some weird reason are set out to make him.

And I root for the Chiefs. Same team you root for. **** you for telling me to root for someone else as if you're some kind of an ambassador for Chiefs fans.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

[kstater]

Demonpenz, that you?

No, sadly Chiefzilla has always been 2 inches from Herm's cock.

See what I mean?

[chiefzilla1501]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Great argument

[milkman]

Clark Hunt really liked Herm Edwards.
Herm Edwards took 4 teams to the playoffs, and those teams weren't loaded with talent.
Horrible coaches don't make the playoffs. Consistently.
Therefore, Herm Edwards is not horrible.

Feel free to argue against any of those points. That's what I said, summed up in a 5 second clip.

I love it when people resort to name-calling because they refuse to argue the points.

I've argued these points over and over with you.

It's like banging my head up aginst the wall.

He took one team that you might legitimately call his to the playoffs.

And two of the other three teams basically backed into the playoffs.

Horrible coaches who inherit other coaches rosters have made it to many playoffs.

Ever hear of George Siefert?

How about Rich Kotite?

And with the Chiefs and the Jets, he left those teams in far worse shape when he left them than when he inherited.

[Bwana]

Great argument

GREAT thread dipshit. You really seem to be in love with it and Herm.

[chiefzilla1501]

See what I mean?

I'm glad that the state of hatred on this board has now made thinking somebody is "average" a sign of a dick-sucking fest.

[kstater]

Herm is average? A coach with a .422 winning percentage is average?

[chiefzilla1501]

I've argued these points over and over with you.

It's like banging my head up aginst the wall.

He took one team that you might legitimately call his to the playoffs.

And two of the other three teams basically backed into the playoffs.

Horrible coaches who inherit other coaches rosters have made it to many playoffs.

Ever hear of George Siefert?

How about Rich Kotite?

And with the Chiefs and the Jets, he left those teams in far worse shape when he left them than when he inherited.

Apples to Oranges comparison. First of all, you're comparing Herm Edwards to two coaches in an uncapped era who inherited insanely talented teams. The 49ers and Cowboys were in an arms race--they spend a shitload of money and nobody stopped them. They practically bought their last Super Bowl by bringing in several ultra-expensive defensive free agents to shore up their defense. There wasn't an even remotely level playing field. Kotite had guys like Randall Cunningham, and one of the most talented defenses in the league with players like Reggie White and Seth Joyner. It's an interesting point you make, but with the Jets, the team went from a borderline playoff team to a borderline playoff team who made the playoffs the next season. He didn't leave it any better or any worse. As for the Chiefs... c'mon man. I know you're better than this. And I know you know that Carl Peterson is very highly responsible for the Chiefs not being better now than they were in 2005.

[chiefzilla1501]

Herm is average? A coach with a .422 winning percentage is average?

Dick Vermeil's winning pct in St. Louis was .458.

You can't use winning pct. as your basis for argument when two of those years were the result of a painful rebuilding process that is the fault of poor front office decisions made before you got there.

[Brock]

Good grief. The guy sucked. They lost a lot of games directly attributable to coaching decisions he made DURING THE GAME. The guy was a moron backed up by a staff of morons.

[milkman]

Apples to Oranges comparison. First of all, you're comparing Herm Edwards to two coaches in an uncapped era who inherited insanely talented teams. The 49ers and Cowboys were in an arms race--they spend a shitload of money and nobody stopped them. They practically bought their last Super Bowl by bringing in several ultra-expensive defensive free agents to shore up their defense. There wasn't an even remotely level playing field. Kotite had guys like Randall Cunningham, and one of the most talented defenses in the league with players like Reggie White and Seth Joyner. It's an interesting point you make, but with the Jets, the team went from a borderline playoff team to a borderline playoff team who made the playoffs the next season. He didn't leave it any better or any worse. As for the Chiefs... c'mon man. I know you're better than this. And I know you know that Carl Peterson is very highly responsible for the Chiefs not being better now than they were in 2005.

No it's not an apple to oranges comparison.

And those are only two examples off the top of my head.

Dave Wannstedt is another.

The point is, a mediocre coach can win a lot of games with another regime's leftovers if there is any talent.

Herman fucking Edwards went to the playoffs that was only a couple of years removed from an AFC Championship apprearence.

Bit in both cases, the Jets and the Chiefs, he left them in worse shape because they were poorly coached and poorly conditioned teams that suffered both from piss poor coaching (game day, preparation and fundamentals) and injury riddled.

And I'm not exonerating Carl from blame, but before Herman fucking Edwards, the Chiefs were only mediocre.

With herman fucking Edwards, they were complete dogshit.

[milkman]

Dick Vermeil's winning pct in St. Louis was .458.

You can't use winning pct. as your basis for argument when two of those years were the result of a painful rebuilding process that is the fault of poor front office decisions made before you got there.

Actually the Rams made a lot of good decisions before he got there, and it wasn't until the management stepped in and forced him to make some changes that lead to the SB season.

[chiefzilla1501]

No it's not an apple to oranges comparison.

And those are only two examples off the top of my head.

Dave Wannstedt is another.

The point is, a mediocre coach can win a lot of games with another regime's leftovers if there is any talent.

Herman ****ing Edwards went to the playoffs that was only a couple of years removed from an AFC Championship apprearence.

Bit in both cases, the Jets and the Chiefs, he left them in worse shape because they were poorly coached and poorly conditioned teams that suffered both from piss poor coaching (game day, preparation and fundamentals) and injury riddled.

And I'm not exonerating Carl from blame, but before Herman ****ing Edwards, the Chiefs were only mediocre.

With herman ****ing Edwards, they were complete dogshit.

Wannstedt is a better example. I can accept that. But I'm not arguing against people thinking Herm Edwards is mediocre. I'm arguing against people who say he was horrendous and the worst coach in the league. He was mediocre. And I know you don't like Peterson either, but again, you say the team was largely dogshit because of Herm Edwards. Here's my point... let's assume that the Chiefs hired a coach like Mike Smith instead. With the state the Chiefs were in in 2007 because of Peterson, do you really think he would have done any better? I don't think even Bill Bellichick could have had a winning season in either 2007 or 2008.

You and I have had this conversation many times. I have always said that Herm Edwards was a good option for the rebuild, poor option once the rebuild was completed. I know he's not a good gameday coach. And you're right about preparing his players. But I respect his adamance for a youth movement--I truly believe that his stubbornness on that issue finally convinced Clark Hunt to force Peterson out. I respect that he stuck to his guns and cut veterans and did everything he could to put young players on the field. And I respect the fact that even in a losing season, he had young players playing their heart out for him. And yes, when he finally got some money to spend on real free agents and finally had the time to get his young players the 2-3 years they need to start to show their potential, I believe Herm would have fielded a 9-7 team. Like Wannstedt, with pretty decent talent, he can field a winner.

But as I've said many times, he would never be good enough to win in the playoffs. That's why coaches like Wannstedt and Herm are mediocre, but not great.

[chiefzilla1501]

Actually the Rams made a lot of good decisions before he got there, and it wasn't until the management stepped in and forced him to make some changes that lead to the SB season.

No, but I think the point to be made is... there are coaches who adopt insanely talented teams and bring them to the playoffs right away. Their job is to sustain an already really good team. Their win % will obviously be higher, because their team is good enough to win right away. And then there are coaches who are starting from the ground-up--few coaches can sustain a winning record in the middle of a rebuild. My point is that I'm just tired of hearing people point to the idea of the Chiefs winning only 6 games, completely disregarding the fact that they lost Roaf, Shields, Green, Holmes, T-Rich, Kennison, and eventually Jared Allen, with only less than a handful of quality players under 30 because of 10 years of horrendous drafting. Again, what coach could possibly do well under those circumstances?

[milkman]

Wannstedt is a better example. I can accept that. But I'm not arguing against people thinking Herm Edwards is mediocre. I'm arguing against people who say he was horrendous and the worst coach in the league. He was mediocre. And I know you don't like Peterson either, but again, you say the team was largely dogshit because of Herm Edwards. Here's my point... let's assume that the Chiefs hired a coach like Mike Smith instead. With the state the Chiefs were in in 2007 because of Peterson, do you really think he would have done any better? I don't think even Bill Bellichick could have had a winning season in either 2007 or 2008.

You and I have had this conversation many times. I have always said that Herm Edwards was a good option for the rebuild, poor option once the rebuild was completed. I know he's not a good gameday coach. And you're right about preparing his players. But I respect his adamance for a youth movement--I truly believe that his stubbornness on that issue finally convinced Clark Hunt to force Peterson out. I respect that he stuck to his guns and cut veterans and did everything he could to put young players on the field. And I respect the fact that even in a losing season, he had young players playing their heart out for him. And yes, when he finally got some money to spend on real free agents and finally had the time to get his young players the 2-3 years they need to start to show their potential, I believe Herm would have fielded a 9-7 team. Like Wannstedt, with pretty decent talent, he can field a winner.

But as I've said many times, he would never be good enough to win in the playoffs. That's why coaches like Wannstedt and Herm are mediocre, but not great.

I'm saying that Herman fucking Edwards is horrendous.

He won some games and made it to the playoffs with veteran laden teams that could overcome some of his dumbassery, because they had been through it all before.

I think Herman fucking Edwards made the righ call in going with a youth movement, but he took it too far.

Any rebuild needs a few vets that can teach the kids the ropes if only by example, and I highly doubt he would have ever taken the Chiefs to the playoffs with the players he drafted and signed, because they were getting horrendous coaching and would never develop the work habits they needed to reach their potential.

[KCBOSS1]

OK, on CP, starting a thread with "I'm tired of......" is just a wide open door for a verbal butchering.

[KCBOSS1]

I like Herm.... glad he's not our coach.