Has Chiefsplanet ever been LESS excited over a first-round pick?

[Hammock Parties]

No one fucking cares about Tyson Jackson.

Total fucking "meh."

I don't EVER remember this happening before, although my memories of the LJ pick are pretty fuzzy. Hell, I remember more excitement over Junior fucking Siavii of all people.

I guess it's pretty hard to get excited about a 3-4 DE. He's gonna have to crack some skulls in preseason before anyone starts to give a shit. I bet his jersey isn't selling well.

[the Talking Can]

15 strikes

[Ultra Peanut]

There was more "FUCK YOU LJ AND FUCK YOU CARL!!!!!" excitement, fo sho.

I think T-Jax will be very solid and I'm glad we (hopefully) have such a fundamental piece of the puzzle in place, but after the Dorsey letdown (/misuse) I can kind of see why people aren't pumped about a guy whose job description is basically to help stop the run and occupy linemen.

[Hammock Parties]

There was more "FUCK YOU LJ AND FUCK YOU CARL!!!!!" excitement, fo sho.

Yeah I think there's more apathy BOTH ways with TJ.

[Fish]

I'm probably more excited over Jackson than I was over Hali.

[ChiTown]

It's just that, well, we've learned to temper our enthusiasm over the years. It's a gentler drop to the realm of reality, you know?
o:-)

[Demonpenz]

You know gochiefs. the people who were draft junkies probably liked value in the LJ pick, but most fans I were around were like WTF? We have priest and Blaylock. Why do we need another RB. That was awhile ago and now people now know the value of the picks and how you go best available player with position along with that. Ironically enough this year we go with a terrible value pick

[Mecca]

It's the nature of the position he plays, it's not exciting or sexy.

I'll say this though at least I don't hate him like I did the Hali or Siavii picks.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'd like to see someone, anyone, tell us why they think that taking a 5-technique with the highest pick in franchise history is a good idea - and do so without answering the question with the question, "who should we have taken?" or by just saying that Pioli is a fuggin genius, therefore, he's a great pick.

As much as I was against the drafting of Aaron Curry, had I known we were going to take Jackson, I would have advocated taking Curry, and hoping the coaching staff spent every waking moment into making the guy a serviceable pass rusher.

Or, if we were going to try to fit this square peg into a round hole by switching to a 3-4, at least take the guy who plays the hardest position to fill - Raji.

[easymobee]

The 3rd overall pick is usually reserved for a sexier pick, add onto that a weak draft and the Chiefs recent history of DL draft picks and it results in lowered excitement and expexpectations. He might be real good in the long run, but as a another teams fan I can see why.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

I'd like to see someone, anyone, tell us why they think that taking a 5-technique with the highest pick in franchise history is a good idea - and do so without answering the question with the question, "who should we have taken?" or by just saying that Pioli is a fuggin genius, therefore, he's a great pick.

As much as I was against the drafting of Aaron Curry, had I known we were going to take Jackson, I would have advocated taking Curry, and hoping the coaching staff spent every waking moment into making the guy a serviceable pass rusher.

Or, if we were going to try to fit this square peg into a round hole by switching to a 3-4, at least take the guy who plays the hardest position to fill - Raji.

He's basically never going to live up to his contract, I guess the Chiefs don't like Raji is all I can think to that.

[Ultra Peanut]

I'd like to see someone, anyone, tell us why they think that taking a 5-technique with the highest pick in franchise history is a good idea - and do so without answering the question with the question, "who should we have taken?" or by just saying that Pioli is a fuggin genius, therefore, he's a great pick.

As much as I was against the drafting of Aaron Curry, had I known we were going to take Jackson, I would have advocated taking Curry, and hoping the coaching staff spent every waking moment into making the guy a serviceable pass rusher.p. much

I'm happy the Chiefs have Jackson, I guess. Just not, you know, ecstatic with how they got him.

[Hammock Parties]

I'd like to see someone, anyone, tell us why they think that taking a 5-technique with the highest pick in franchise history is a good idea - and do so without answering the question with the question, "who should we have taken?" or by just saying that Pioli is a fuggin genius, therefore, he's a great pick.

http://wepartyfresh.com/v2009/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/724seymour.png

[Mecca]

http://wepartyfresh.com/v2009/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/724seymour.png

He makes more money then Seymour does right now....where he was picked actually says he should be better than Seymour already.

[OnTheWarpath15]

He's basically never going to live up to his contract, I guess the Chiefs don't like Raji is all I can think to that.

He's not going to live up to his contract OR draft position.

I'm not sure I've ever seen you address this question, maybe it's never been posed to you, but:

Do you really think that there is 2 rounds of difference between Tyson Jackson and Jarron Gilbert?

[The Franchise]

I hated the LJ pick. We had a shot at Polamalu(sp?)....and we blew it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

http://wepartyfresh.com/v2009/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/724seymour.png

""More like, one-in-a-million..."

"SO YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S A CHANCE!"

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2085/2079118961_08150e7b12.jpg

[the Talking Can]

I'd like to see someone, anyone, tell us why they think that taking a 5-technique with the highest pick in franchise history is a good idea - and do so without answering the question with the question, "who should we have taken?" or by just saying that Pioli is a fuggin genius, therefore, he's a great pick.

As much as I was against the drafting of Aaron Curry, had I known we were going to take Jackson, I would have advocated taking Curry, and hoping the coaching staff spent every waking moment into making the guy a serviceable pass rusher.

Or, if we were going to try to fit this square peg into a round hole by switching to a 3-4, at least take the guy who plays the hardest position to fill - Raji.

huh?

wanting Raji over Jackson makes you a genius?

well fuck me, if I had only known it was that easy..

[Crush]

I hated the LJ pick. We had a shot at Polamalu(sp?)....and we blew it.


This

[OnTheWarpath15]

huh?

wanting Raji over Jackson makes you a genius?

well fuck me, if I had only known it was that easy..

WTF are you talking about?

Does anyone else have any clue as to what Captain Flip-flop is saying here?

[Mr. Krab]

Considering how the last few picks we have been excited about have turned out, maybe this apathy is a good thing.

<table align="center" border="1"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><th align="left">Round</th><th align="left">Year</th><th align="center">Pick</th><th align="center">Player</th><th align="left">Name</th><th align="left">Position</th><th align="left">College</th></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td align="left">1</td><td align="right">2009</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="left">Tyson Jackson</td><td align="left">DE</td><td align="left">Louisiana State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2008</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="left">Glenn Dorsey</td><td align="left">DT</td><td align="left">Louisiana State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2008</td><td align="right">15</td><td align="right">15</td><td align="left">Branden Albert</td><td align="left"> G</td><td align="left">Virginia</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2007</td><td align="right">23</td><td align="right">23</td><td align="left">Dwayne Bowe</td><td align="left">WR</td><td align="left">Louisiana State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2006</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="left">Tamba Hali</td><td align="left">DE</td><td align="left">Penn State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2005</td><td align="right">15</td><td align="right">15</td><td align="left">Derrick O. Johnson</td><td align="left">LB</td><td align="left">Texas</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2003</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="left">Larry Johnson</td><td align="left">RB</td><td align="left">Penn State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2002</td><td align="right">6</td><td align="right">6</td><td align="left">Ryan Sims</td><td align="left">DT</td><td align="left">North Carolina</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2000</td><td align="right">21</td><td align="right">21</td><td align="left">Sylvester Morris</td><td align="left">WR</td><td align="left">Jackson State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">1999</td><td align="right">14</td><td align="right">14</td><td align="left">John Tait</td><td align="left"> T</td><td align="left">Brigham Young</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">1998</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="left">Victor Riley</td><td align="left"> T</td><td align="left">Auburn</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Mecca]

He's not going to live up to his contract OR draft position.

I'm not sure I've ever seen you address this question, maybe it's never been posed to you, but:

Do you really think that there is 2 rounds of difference between Tyson Jackson and Jarron Gilbert?

No I don't, especially considering Gilbert actually was far more productive and has more natural athletic gifts.

Now cue CupidStunt "You are just some fat idiot who doesn't know anything!" He said that when I said I thought it was dumb to take Magee over Gilbert...

[Mecca]

WTF are you talking about?

Does anyone else have any clue as to what Captain Flip-flop is saying here?

I don't even know what Talking Can talks about anymore.

He went from calling people true fans and railing on the Chiefs being stupid to slurping the sauce in the snap of a finger.

[Demonpenz]

All Tyson has to do is say the right things, watch the cut blocks and keep his head on a swivel, mke a sack or two when he is one on one, party when he gets a chance. Take as many practices off as he can with soreness in knee he has to keep his mind on life after football first in foremost right now because he is set for life with the money. and he can retire with a shitload of money by age 30 and get a nfl pension on top of that

[OnTheWarpath15]

Considering how the last few picks we have been excited about have turned out, maybe this apathy is a good thing.

<table align="center" border="1"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><th align="left">Round</th><th align="left">Year</th><th align="center">Pick</th><th align="center">Player</th><th align="left">Name</th><th align="left">Position</th><th align="left">College</th></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td align="left">1</td><td align="right">2009</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="left">Tyson Jackson</td><td align="left">DE</td><td align="left">Louisiana State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2008</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="left">Glenn Dorsey</td><td align="left">DT</td><td align="left">Louisiana State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2008</td><td align="right">15</td><td align="right">15</td><td align="left">Branden Albert</td><td align="left"> G</td><td align="left">Virginia</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2007</td><td align="right">23</td><td align="right">23</td><td align="left">Dwayne Bowe</td><td align="left">WR</td><td align="left">Louisiana State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2006</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="left">Tamba Hali</td><td align="left">DE</td><td align="left">Penn State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2005</td><td align="right">15</td><td align="right">15</td><td align="left">Derrick O. Johnson</td><td align="left">LB</td><td align="left">Texas</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2003</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="left">Larry Johnson</td><td align="left">RB</td><td align="left">Penn State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2002</td><td align="right">6</td><td align="right">6</td><td align="left">Ryan Sims</td><td align="left">DT</td><td align="left">North Carolina</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2000</td><td align="right">21</td><td align="right">21</td><td align="left">Sylvester Morris</td><td align="left">WR</td><td align="left">Jackson State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">1999</td><td align="right">14</td><td align="right">14</td><td align="left">John Tait</td><td align="left"> T</td><td align="left">Brigham Young</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">1998</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="left">Victor Riley</td><td align="left"> T</td><td align="left">Auburn</td></tr></tbody></table>


Hey, 2.5 out of 11 ain't bad.

[Hammock Parties]

He's not going to live up to his contract OR draft position.


I disagree.

If he's as good as Big Dick Seymour, he was worth the pick.

If he's Luis Castillo....gawd.

But continue looking into your crystal ball.

[SAUTO]

I don't even know what Talking Can talks about anymore.

He went from calling people true fans and railing on the Chiefs being stupid to slurping the sauce in the snap of a finger.

some people are willing to give it a chance

[keg in kc]

I was definitely less excited about SlyMo.

[Just Passin' By]

I'd like to see someone, anyone, tell us why they think that taking a 5-technique with the highest pick in franchise history is a good idea - and do so without answering the question with the question, "who should we have taken?" or by just saying that Pioli is a fuggin genius, therefore, he's a great pick.

As much as I was against the drafting of Aaron Curry, had I known we were going to take Jackson, I would have advocated taking Curry, and hoping the coaching staff spent every waking moment into making the guy a serviceable pass rusher.

Or, if we were going to try to fit this square peg into a round hole by switching to a 3-4, at least take the guy who plays the hardest position to fill - Raji.

Pioli learned under Parcells and Belichick. Both are 'defense first' coaches and personnel people. Parcells is about linebackers then DL, Belichick is about DL then linebackers. Pioli apparently prefers Belichick's method.

It was considered to be an extremely weak draft at the top, and the team wasn't going to take a QB or LT. That left them choosing, basically, from Jackson, Raji, Maybin, Curry, Orakpo, Cushing and Ayers at the top of the draft.

Pioli obviously felt Jackson was the best choice for the Chiefs from among that group.

[the Talking Can]

I don't even know what Talking Can talks about anymore.

He went from calling people true fans and railing on the Chiefs being stupid to slurping the sauce in the snap of a finger.

seriously, where do you guys get this shit?

i wanted Sanchez like everyone else.....

i can't go back in time and change what happened...

so what I am supposed to do? sit around and pretend to be a martyr like you pussies?

[keg in kc]

seriously, where do you guys get this shit?

i wanted Sanchez like everyone else.....

i can't go back in time and change what happened...

so what I am supposed to do? sit around and pretend to be a martyr like you pussies?It's better for your prostate to complain for 3 months than to face reality.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I disagree.

If he's as good as Big Dick Seymour, he was worth the pick.

If he's Luis Castillo....gawd.

But continue looking into your crystal ball.

So, you're only asking him to be as good or better as arguably the best guy to play the position in the past 15 years.

[the Talking Can]

i'd like someone to show the post where I ever said I wanted Cassel over Sanchez, or that I believe Cassel is guaranteed to work out?

at least be honest....

[Mecca]

So, you're only asking him to be as good or better as arguably the best guy to play the position in the past 15 years.

It's an unrealistic expectation.

There's the same chance he becomes Marcus Spears as there is that he's Seymour.

[SAUTO]

seriously, where do you guys get this shit?

i wanted Sanchez like everyone else.....

i can't go back in time and change what happened...

so what I am supposed to do? sit around and pretend to be a martyr like you pussies?

i was for dratfing sanchez, watched the games when we traded for cassel and hell mecca cant even say what sanchez has on cassel except for age. so why all the bitching when it's supposed to be a good time of year. EVERY TEAM IS 0-0 right now

[SAUTO]

It's an unrealistic expectation.

There's the same chance he becomes Marcus Spears as there is that he's Seymour.

LMAO why dont you say the same thing about players you are on your box about?

[Mecca]

i'd like someone to show the post where I ever said I wanted Cassel over Sanchez, or that I believe Cassel is guaranteed to work out?

at least be honest....

You haven't really said a whole lot of anything lately other than "these threads are stupid" "you guys suck"

Or what you were doing here, that's about it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

seriously, where do you guys get this shit?

i wanted Sanchez like everyone else.....

i can't go back in time and change what happened...

so what I am supposed to do? sit around and pretend to be a martyr like you pussies?

Jesus, this isn't, and hasn't been about Sanchez.

I've said numerous times that the minute they passed on him, I was over it. Cassel is the guy, I hope he becomes the franchise QB, but I'm seriously doubting it. I hope like hell I'm wrong.

That DOESN'T change the fact that I think Tyson Jackson will never live up to his contract, or draft position.

[Just Passin' By]

It's an unrealistic expectation.

There's the same chance he becomes Marcus Spears as there is that he's Seymour.

It doesn't matter. The dollar amounts have made otherwise rational people go completely insane with expectations that no human being is likely to be able to fulfill.

[SAUTO]

It doesn't matter. The dollar amounts have made otherwise rational people go completely insane with expectations that no human being is likely to be able to fulfill.

and what do the dollar amounts actually mean to ANY of us?

[OnTheWarpath15]

It doesn't matter. The dollar amounts have made otherwise rational people go completely insane with expectations that no human being is likely to be able to fulfill.

The money means nothing to me.

He can't fulfill the expectations that come with being the 3rd overall pick, IMO.

He's have to be significantly better than Richard Seymour, and that's like asking to win the Powerball twice in one week.

[the Talking Can]

Jesus, this isn't, and hasn't been about Sanchez.

I've said numerous times that the minute they passed on him, I was over it.

That DOESN'T change the fact that I think Tyson Jackson will never live up to his contract, or draft position.

who cares?

we all know he wasn't the ideal pick....we were stuck at 3....this is old fucking news, and saying "he'll never live up to the pick" doesn't make you smart...it makes you Capt. Obvious....

they picked the player they best though would anchor their 3-4....they obviously had doubts about Raji's work ethic or commitment, and they didn't think much of Curry in a 3-4....

so there you go....you think what pretty much everyone else thinks...want a fucking cookie?

[Just Passin' By]

The money means nothing to me.

He can't fulfill the expectations that come with being the 3rd overall pick, IMO.

He's have to be significantly better than Richard Seymour, and that's like asking to win the Powerball twice in one week.

That's an asinine expectation, as you must certainly know.

[the Talking Can]

i've never seen people who think so much of such uninteresting and frankly obvious opinions.....

[Mecca]

The money means nothing to me.

He can't fulfill the expectations that come with being the 3rd overall pick, IMO.

He's have to be significantly better than Richard Seymour, and that's like asking to win the Powerball twice in one week.

I want to know why when you or I say anything someone always immediately goes to Sanchez.

We weren't even talking about that, yet that is always brought up it makes no god damn sense.

[OnTheWarpath15]

That's an asinine expectation, as you must certainly know.

Really?

So if he plays like Marcus Spears, he's worth the 3rd overall pick?

I'm not sure how many times this has to be pointed out:

5-technique is not an impact position. Yet he was taken in a draft slot that DEMANDS you get an impact player.

So yeah, he better be Seymour II or he's not fulfilling expectations.

Is that his fault? Nope.

[Chief Faithful]

No one ****ing cares about Tyson Jackson.

Total ****ing "meh."

I don't EVER remember this happening before, although my memories of the LJ pick are pretty fuzzy. Hell, I remember more excitement over Junior ****ing Siavii of all people.

I guess it's pretty hard to get excited about a 3-4 DE. He's gonna have to crack some skulls in preseason before anyone starts to give a shit. I bet his jersey isn't selling well.


Does the reaction come to you as a surprise?:spock: The team is coming of a 6-26 record the last two seasons. Eveything has changed from the owner, front office, down to the kicker. Tyson Jackson is a blip on the radar screen. While everyone feels he could turn out to be a great player he is only one of a hundred changes to watch. Even though all the changes seem to be extremely positive in this best offseason ever nobody knows how this team is going to do this season.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I want to know why when you or I say anything someone always immediately goes to Sanchez.

We weren't even talking about that, yet that is always brought up it makes no god damn sense.

Christ, we weren't even talking about the QB position.

[the Talking Can]

I don't even know what Talking Can talks about anymore.

He went from calling people true fans and railing on the Chiefs being stupid to slurping the sauce in the snap of a finger.

could you or anyone show me these "offending" posts?

that last accusation is freakin hilarious...I'd like the evidence

[OnTheWarpath15]

i've never seen people who think so much of such uninteresting and frankly obvious opinions.....

Opinions so obvious that 90% of posters disagree with them on a daily basis.

Got it.

[Mecca]

Opinions so obvious that 90% of posters disagree with them on a daily basis.

Got it.

It sure seemed like even he was disagreeing so apparently they aren't even obvious to him.

[Just Passin' By]

Really?

So if he plays like Marcus Spears, he's worth the 3rd overall pick?

I'm not sure how many times this has to be pointed out:

5-technique is not an impact position. Yet he was taken in a draft slot that DEMANDS you get an impact player.

So yeah, he better be Seymour II or he's not fulfilling expectations.

Is that his fault? Nope.

I don't know how to put this politely in many more ways for you to grasp, but I'll try one last time:

Your expectations are unrealistic, and that's nobody's fault but your own.

Here are the #3 picks starting in 2000

Matt Ryan
Joe Thomas
Vince Young
Braylon Edwards
Larry Fitzgerald
Andre Johnson
Joey Harrington
Gerard Warren
Chris Samuels

Not one of them is the equivalent of "better than Seymour" at his position to this point in his career. Fitzgerald is the closest to that, and he's a hell of a player, but he's no Randy Moss, at least to date.

[wild1]

He's an end in a 3-4, he won't blow anyone's doors off even if he's doing a great job.

[the Talking Can]

Opinions so obvious that 90% of posters disagree with them on a daily basis.

Got it.

you really believe that, don't you?

in the fantasy world you live in you're a lone soldier fighting literally hundreds of enemies....

in reality, you're one guy on a sports message board who has the same boring argument every day with the same four boring people who disagree with you in the same boring way....


hate to burst your bubble....

you're as delusional as kcjohhny with his PPL....

[Mecca]

I don't know how to put this politely in many more ways for you to grasp, but I'll try one last time:

Your expectations are unrealistic, and that's nobody's fault but your own.

Here are the #3 picks starting in 2000

Matt Ryan
Joe Thomas
Vince Young
Braylon Edwards
Larry Fitzgerald
Andre Johnson
Joey Harrington
Gerard Warren
Chris Samuels

Not one of them is the equivalent of "better than Seymour" at his position to this point in his career. Fitzgerald is the closest to that, and he's a hell of a player, but he's no Randy Moss, at least to date.

There's a huge difference in those guys and their positions etc than Tyson Jackson 3-4 end...

All of those guys are impact players or were taken to be such...

[keg in kc]

Opinions so obvious that 90% of posters disagree with them on a daily basis.

Got it.Hey can, I think the Planet Party Line is back.

[keg in kc]

hate to burst your bubble....

you're as delusional as kcjohhny with his PPL....ROFL

I should have read a few posts further, you beat me to it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't know how to put this politely in many more ways for you to grasp, but I'll try one last time:

Your expectations are unrealistic, and that's nobody's fault but your own.

Here are the #3 picks starting in 2000

Matt Ryan
Joe Thomas
Vince Young
Braylon Edwards
Larry Fitzgerald
Andre Johnson
Joey Harrington
Gerard Warren
Chris Samuels

Not one of them is the equivalent of "better than Seymour" at his position to this point in his career. Fitzgerald is the closest to that, and he's a hell of a player, but he's no Randy Moss, at least to date.

Are you on fucking crack?

You listed 9 guys.

6 of which are some of the best at their respective positions.

ALL of which are true impact players.

[Just Passin' By]

There's a huge difference in those guys and their positions etc than Tyson Jackson 3-4 end...

All of those guys are impact players or were taken to be such...

No, there's not a difference at all. What you claim to be a 'difference' is merely a matter of you acting as if your perspective is the only correct one. Every one of these players were taken to help strengthen their football team. That's how you make an impact.

Hell, the fact that it's Seymour being used in comparison should have alerted you to just how poor this argument of yours was.

[OnTheWarpath15]

you really believe that, don't you?

in the fantasy world you live in you're a lone soldier fighting literally hundreds of enemies....

in reality, you're one guy on a sports message board who has the same boring argument every day with the same four boring people who disagree with you in the same boring way....


hate to burst your bubble....

you're as delusional as kcjohhny with his PPL....

You've been sucking Hootie's cock again, haven't you?

That's the only reason I can think of as to how you went from being Hamas-like in your rants on true fans to your being one.

[Mecca]

No, there's not a difference at all. What you claim to be a 'difference' is merely a matter of you acting as if your perspective is the only correct one. Every one of these players were taken to help strengthen their football team. That's how you make an impact.

Hell, the fact that it's Seymour being used in comparison should have alerted you to just how poor this argument of yours was.

I'm sure none of those guys were thought of as top 3 picks at the time uh huh.

But I'm sure Jackson goes right inline with Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm sure none of those guys were thought of as top 3 picks at the time uh huh.

But I'm sure Jackson goes right inline with Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald.

6 months ago, TTC would be carving this guy a new asshole.

Now, he's exactly what he despised.

[Just Passin' By]

Are you on ****ing crack?

You listed 9 guys.

6 of which are some of the best at their respective positions.

ALL of which are true impact players.

You called Seymour:

arguably the best guy to play the position in the past 15 years.

and claimed that Jackson would have to be better than that to justify his draft position. I showed all the picks taken at #3 since 2000. you just said that 6 of them are some of the best at their respective positions.

So, either "some of the best at their respective positions" is good enough to justify being taken 3rd overall and being better than Richard Seymour is more than needed to make it a good pick, or not a single player has justified going #3 overall since 2000.

Which is it?

[Just Passin' By]

I'm sure none of those guys were thought of as top 3 picks at the time uh huh.

But I'm sure Jackson goes right inline with Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald.

Who gives a shit what they were thought of at the time? That has nothing to do with what it will take to justify being drafted at #3.

[Coogs]

No one fucking cares about Tyson Jackson.

Total fucking "meh."

I don't EVER remember this happening before, although my memories of the LJ pick are pretty fuzzy. Hell, I remember more excitement over Junior fucking Siavii of all people.

I guess it's pretty hard to get excited about a 3-4 DE. He's gonna have to crack some skulls in preseason before anyone starts to give a shit. I bet his jersey isn't selling well.

I tell you what. I'm all for building a championship caliber defense. I suspect this will eventually be a very important piece of the puzzle, but we may still lack a few pieces. Once the whole thing is built, maybe the excitement over the selection will increase.

[ModSocks]

I was pretty "blah" about Dorsey last year. I was more excited about Flowers than any of our picks from la;st year.

[Mecca]

I'd like to know when this forum turned into WPI or the Coalition?

This forum was great because it was different now it's just like those.

[Amnorix]

He makes more money then Seymour does right now....where he was picked actually says he should be better than Seymour already.

That's not Pioli's fault, that's the retarded NFL system.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You called Seymour:



and claimed that Jackson would have to be better than that to justify his draft position. I showed all the picks taken at #3 since 2000. you just said that 6 of them are some of the best at their respective positions.

So, either "some of the best at their respective positions" is good enough to justify being taken 3rd overall and being better than Richard Seymour is more than needed to make it a good pick, or not a single player has justified going #3 overall since 2000.

Which is it?

Dumbfuck.

Seymour's career is near completion. It's safe to say what he has accomplished.

The others you listed still have many, many years in this league.

Plus, you're trying to compare guys that play completely different positions.

Richard Seymour is arguably the best at his position because, one - he's talented, two - during his career there wasn't a lot of competition at the 5-technique. there were what, 5 teams that ran a 3-4 defense?

[mlyonsd]

I knew Todd Blackledge was a mistake the minute they picked him.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I tell you what. I'm all for building a championship caliber defense. I suspect this will eventually be a very important piece of the puzzle, but we may still lack a few pieces. Once the whole thing is built, maybe the excitement over the selection will increase.

I agree with you in theory.

But the 3rd overall draft pick should be THE cornerstone player - THE piece of the puzzle you're talking about.

For what he'll be asked to do, there's not much difference between Jackson and Jarron Gilbert, who went 2 rounds later. 5-technique is a complementary position - not a core position.

[morphius]

I'm to the point that I hope that out of our first round pick we get a solid player, that well be around for a while, and that we would actually be at least a little sad to lose the guy off the team.

SBT

[DaFace]

I'd like to know when this forum turned into WPI or the Coalition?

This forum was great because it was different now it's just like those.

I don't think it's anywhere near that bad, but I personally think that the trend you're referring to started with Hamas declaring a battle against "true fans." That irritated a lot of people and has led to a general uprising against those who constantly berate others for having an "inferior" opinion.

[ChiefGator]

Damn, the arguments here are crazy. Going into the offseason we have a promising young player at left tackle, so that was one position we were not going to draft. Using the logic in this thread, any player taken at #3 is basically doomed, if you tie it to draft pick and salary compensation. Basically anyone taken there would have to be better than 99.9% of the players that ever played the game.

Curry has to be the best linebacker to ever play the game. Heyward-Bey would have had to be better than Jerry Rice. Mark Sanchez had better be better than Manning, Brady, and Montana. Guess what... he won't be.

You act as if we are the only franchise drafting this high which is not going to end up with a Hall of Famer. And we took the one pick that guaranteed it. Unreal expectations.

Someone had our 1st round draft picks in this thread, and everyone since SlyMo looks like they are just about right with where we ended up drafting them, or has potential to match their pick. At least they are all still starting and are still contributors to the team... many teams cannot say as much.

If you do not like picking a 3-4 DE that high, you really could just say "I do not value the 3-4 DE as much as Pioli does" and just leave it at that.

[Just Passin' By]

Dumb****.

Seymour's career is near completion. It's safe to say what he has accomplished.

The others you listed still have many, many years in this league.

Plus, you're trying to compare guys that play completely different positions.

Richard Seymour is arguably the best at his position because, one - he's talented, two - during his career there wasn't a lot of competition at the 5-technique. there were what, 5 teams that ran a 3-4 defense?

You are the one trying to define the parameters for justifying going #3 over all. I'll ask again.... have those 6 players justified going #3 or not? Again, not one of them is better than "arguably the best guy to play the position in the past 15 years".

[ChiefGator]

5-technique is a complementary position - not a core position.

In your opinion. Pioli apparently disagrees. Or maybe he does not think anyone else in the draft was worth the pick as much as Jackson.

[Mecca]

Here's the thing, I think the overall awful picks have led people to have lower expectations for draft picks.

A top 3 draft pick is suppose to be a franchise player, not just a piece of the puzzle.

We had so many bad picks now if the guy is ok people think he was a good pick, like Tamba Hali.

[Titty Meat]

Everyone liked alot of our 1st round picks and most have sucked.

[Just Passin' By]

Here's the thing, I think the overall awful picks have led people to have lower expectations for draft picks.

A top 3 draft pick is suppose to be a franchise player, not just a piece of the puzzle.

We had so many bad picks now if the guy is ok people think he was a good pick, like Tamba Hali.

And here we go again.....

Outside of the QBs and LTs, who were these "franchise" players that were available?

[Titty Meat]

And here we go again.....

Outside of the QBs and LTs, who were these "franchise" players that were available?

If you're tired of that debate quit asking the question.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You are the one trying to define the parameters for justifying going #3 over all. I'll ask again.... have those 6 players justified going #3 or not? Again, not one of them is better than "arguably the best guy to play the position in the past 15 years".

Dear God, you're insufferably ignorant.

Those 6 have justified being picked 3 overall.

And they have done so by being the best at their respective positions, positions where there is 100X the competition there is at the 5-technique.

To be a Top 10 WR in this league, for example:

You're in the Top 10 of over roughly 160 guys who play the same position.

Richard Seymour was arguably the best out of maybe 5 guys that played that position during the prime of his career. That number has jumped to maybe 10-12 now that more teams are moving to the 3-4.

Comparing being the best 5-tech to being the best LT or WR is beyond asinine.

[Coogs]

I agree with you in theory.

But the 3rd overall draft pick should be THE cornerstone player - THE piece of the puzzle you're talking about.

For what he'll be asked to do, there's not much difference between Jackson and Jarron Gilbert, who went 2 rounds later. 5-technique is a complementary position - not a core position.

:shrug: But what are we going to do? We all voiced who we would take at #3, and there were very few who would have went with Jackson, including me. Complaining isn't going to help much, so I am hoping for the ass kicking defense like the one that took us to a Super Bowl win back in my younger days. maybe Jackson is the start of that defense.

[Tiger's Fan]

I'd like to see someone, anyone, tell us why they think that taking a 5-technique with the highest pick in franchise history is a good idea - and do so without answering the question with the question, "who should we have taken?" or by just saying that Pioli is a fuggin genius, therefore, he's a great pick.

As much as I was against the drafting of Aaron Curry, had I known we were going to take Jackson, I would have advocated taking Curry, and hoping the coaching staff spent every waking moment into making the guy a serviceable pass rusher.

Or, if we were going to try to fit this square peg into a round hole by switching to a 3-4, at least take the guy who plays the hardest position to fill - Raji.

So let me get this right, you'd rather have drafted a guy, and make him into something he's not, or draft a guy that by all reports has the worst work ethic of any other player in the first round?

By your logic, I'm sure you have a huge problem with the Jackson pick. I'm not in love with it either, but have yet to hear a single argument for a better alternative.

The man wanted to trade out. He couldn't, obviously. Since we already have a QBOTF candidate, and a solid LT, he did pick for need. Let me hear a better option, or just try to accept the reality of the situation and quit crying about it on a daily basis.

[ChiefGator]

Here's the thing, I think the overall awful picks have led people to have lower expectations for draft picks.

A top 3 draft pick is suppose to be a franchise player, not just a piece of the puzzle.

We had so many bad picks now if the guy is ok people think he was a good pick, like Tamba Hali.

I think we just got our franchise DE, who will anchor our 3-4 defense for some time.

Tamba Hali was not a great pick, but he was taken late in the 1st round, and there are alot of players around him in that draft that are not even contributors anymore. I am still giving Hali one more year, in a new system.

[Mecca]

:shrug: But what are we going to do? We all voiced who we would take at #3, and there were very few who would have went with Jackson, including me. Complaining isn't going to help much, so I am hoping for the ass kicking defense like the one that took us to a Super Bowl win back in my younger days. maybe Jackson is the start of that defense.

But that's why we have a forum.

If we all reverted to well lets no complain and trust what they are doing.

We'd be the coalition and super boring.

[Titty Meat]

Tyson Jackson will dominate from the 3-4 D-end like Bruce Smith

[Just Passin' By]

If you're tired of that debate quit asking the question.

It's the same circular argument for Mecca and OTW. The reality is that there were no players that they'd have 'accepted' at the #3 slot other than Sanchez. They can't separate that from their arguments about everything else, so it keeps coming back to square one on every single thread remotely tied to the draft or to Jackson.

[Just Passin' By]

Dear God, you're insufferably ignorant.

Those 6 have justified being picked 3 overall.

And they have done so by being the best at their respective positions, positions where there is 100X the competition there is at the 5-technique.

To be a Top 10 WR in this league, for example:

You're in the Top 10 of over roughly 160 guys who play the same position.

Richard Seymour was arguably the best out of maybe 5 guys that played that position during the prime of his career. That number has jumped to maybe 10-12 now that more teams are moving to the 3-4.

Comparing being the best 5-tech to being the best LT or WR is beyond asinine.

No, it's not. It's the best at a position. It's not my fault that your argument sucks. It's your argument.

[Mecca]

Tyson Jackson will dominate from the 3-4 D-end like Bruce Smith

If Bruce Smith had played in a 4-3 he'd probably have 100 career more sacks. The defense he played in and what he did speaks to how really really dominating he was as a player.

[OnTheWarpath15]

So let me get this right, you'd rather have drafted a guy, and make him into something he's not, or draft a guy that by all reports has the worst work ethic of any other player in the first round?

By your logic, I'm sure you have a huge problem with the Jackson pick. I'm not in love with it either, but have yet to hear a single argument for a better alternative.

The man wanted to trade out. He couldn't, obviously. Since we already have a QBOTF candidate, and a solid LT, he did pick for need. Let me hear a better option, or just try to accept the reality of the situation and quit crying about it on a daily basis.

Even a marginal pass rusher is more important than a 3-4 DE.

It's really that simple.

Taking Curry at least provided a chance to have a true impact player.

Seymour's name keeps popping up because he's the ONLY 3-4 DE to be a true impact player in the past era.

The odds are firmly against Tyson Jackson being a gamechanging, impact player due to the demands of the position he plays.

[Titty Meat]

It's the same circular argument for Mecca and OTW. The reality is that there were no players that they'd have 'accepted' at the #3 slot other than Sanchez. They can't separate that from their arguments about everything else, so it keeps coming back to square one on every single thread remotely tied to the draft or to Jackson.

Yea but the conversation is like beating a dead horse. At this point it's time to let the players do the talking. Say the Chiefs defense is a top 10 defense in the next few years this conversation is probably irrelevant.

[Coogs]

But that's why we have a forum.

If we all reverted to well lets no complain and trust what they are doing.

We'd be the coalition and super boring.


I know what you are saying. Hell, if Jackson winds up being Neil Smith to someone else who turns out to be DT, then we probably did all right. If he winds up being anything less, then I'll probably voice my displeasure. But for right now, I'm willing to give the new regime their "honeymoon" period.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It's the same circular argument for Mecca and OTW. The reality is that there were no players that they'd have 'accepted' at the #3 slot other than Sanchez. They can't separate that from their arguments about everything else, so it keeps coming back to square one on every single thread remotely tied to the draft or to Jackson.

I've named 2 in this thread alone, fuckstick.

Nice try though.

[doomy3]

I've named 2 in this thread alone, ****stick.

Nice try though.

And I'm sure if we would have taken Curry instead, you wouldn't be throwing a hissy fit.

[Titty Meat]

If Bruce Smith had played in a 4-3 he'd probably have 100 career more sacks. The defense he played in and what he did speaks to how really really dominating he was as a player.

He was a great player and watching him in the hall of fame made me think of Jackson. I don't think Jackson will be Bruce Smith but it would be nice if he could get an occasional sack. I like Tyson Jackson though picking at #3 was a tough spot and thats why I cheer for the Chiefs to go 8-8 opposed to 2-14. Theres a myth that a team has to pick in the top 10 to be good.

[Ultra Peanut]

One other thing to take into account is that the franchise also has a new GM, new coach, and new starting QB.

[Mecca]

Even a marginal pass rusher is more important than a 3-4 DE.

It's really that simple.

Taking Curry at least provided a chance to have a true impact player.

Seymour's name keeps popping up because he's the ONLY 3-4 DE to be a true impact player in the past era.

The odds are firmly against Tyson Jackson being a gamechanging, impact player due to the demands of the position he plays.

If getting a 5 technique DE was that important the Chiefs could have signed Chris Canty and Igor Olshansky combined for less money than Tyson Jackson...

[Just Passin' By]

Even a marginal pass rusher is more important than a 3-4 DE.

It's really that simple.

Taking Curry at least provided a chance to have a true impact player.

Seymour's name keeps popping up because he's the ONLY 3-4 DE to be a true impact player in the past era.

The odds are firmly against Tyson Jackson being a gamechanging, impact player due to the demands of the position he plays.

Bill Belichick, the coach of a team that's won 3 Super Bowls this decade, clearly disagrees with you. His partner during that span, Scott Pioli, clearly sides with Belichick over you.

It's really that simple.

<--- Cue "Can't disagree with Pioli....." rant as if pointing out how the Patriots achieved their success somehow diminishes the argument that the most successful team of the decade has become that by doing precisely what OTW says you don't do.

[OnTheWarpath15]

No, it's not. It's the best at a position. It's not my fault that your argument sucks. It's your argument.

If you don't see how it's more impressive to be one of the best at a position that 160 guys play, over being one of the best at a position that 5 guys play, then I can't help you.

[OnTheWarpath15]

If getting a 5 technique DE was that important the Chiefs could have signed Chris Canty and Igor Olshansky combined for less money than Tyson Jackson...

And boom goes the dynamite.

[Titty Meat]

Even a marginal pass rusher is more important than a 3-4 DE.

It's really that simple.

Taking Curry at least provided a chance to have a true impact player.

Seymour's name keeps popping up because he's the ONLY 3-4 DE to be a true impact player in the past era.

The odds are firmly against Tyson Jackson being a gamechanging, impact player due to the demands of the position he plays.

I disagree with you OTW. I think Curry is Derrick Johnson pt II. I'd rather have a 3-4 D-linemen that can control the line. Simply put if you can dominate the line usually you win the game.

[Just Passin' By]

I've named 2 in this thread alone, ****stick.

Nice try though.

Wait, are you now claiming that you'd have 'accepted' Curry if he'd been taken #3? If so, kindly point to the evidence of that in some pre-draft thread(s). I'd love to see it.

As much as I was against the drafting of Aaron Curry, had I known we were going to take Jackson, I would have advocated taking Curry, and hoping the coaching staff spent every waking moment into making the guy a serviceable pass rusher.

That was you in this very thread.

[OnTheWarpath15]

And I'm sure if we would have taken Curry instead, you wouldn't be throwing a hissy fit.

Did you actually read my post?

Guess not.

As much as I was against the drafting of Aaron Curry, had I known we were going to take Jackson, I would have advocated taking Curry, and hoping the coaching staff spent every waking moment into making the guy a serviceable pass rusher.

[Tiger's Fan]

I've named 2 in this thread alone, ****stick.

Nice try though.

Not having taken the time to look it up, weren't you one of the people flaming posters on here for wanting to take Curry?

[BigRock]

I'd like to see someone, anyone, tell us why they think that taking a 5-technique with the highest pick in franchise history is a good idea - and do so without answering the question with the question, "who should we have taken?" or by just saying that Pioli is a fuggin genius, therefore, he's a great pick.

I thought Whitlock said it pretty well back on draft weekend.

Pioli grabbed the essential ingredient to running a 3-4 defense: a tough-as-hell, 290-pound, athletic defensive end.

I wanted to argue that Jackson came off the board too early and therefore would be too expensive for what he’ll be asked to do (stuff the run, free the linebackers and average five to six sacks per season). New England’s Richard Seymour went No. 6 in the 2001 draft, and Ty Warren lasted until the 13th pick in 2003.

But when I asked Pioli whether Jackson would be asked to play the same role as Seymour, the Chiefs’ new general manager recognized that it was a setup question, and he answered the unasked follow-up, referencing a conversation he had had with former Dallas Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson.

“Johnson talked about the importance of how Russell Maryland … allowed him to play the defense they wanted to play,” Pioli said.

Maryland was the No. 1 overall pick in the 1991 draft. He signed a big contract. He was a 6-foot-1, 300-pound defensive tackle who never recorded more than 4.5 sacks in a season. He played in one Pro Bowl. He helped the Cowboys win three Super Bowls. He was perfect for what the Cowboys did defensively.

Jackson is perfect for the Chiefs. And he’ll be worth the price tag.

That was going to be my follow-up question to Pioli: Is a 3-4 defensive end worth the money a team has to give the third overall pick?

A quarterback, a pass-rusher, a receiver, a big-play cornerback and a left tackle are all worth paying $30 million-plus in guaranteed money. By referencing Maryland, Pioli was saying a defensive lineman doesn’t have to rack up headline stats to justify a significant paycheck. Pioli is right.

The problem with Jackson is that he’s boring. He’s not the next Jared Allen. Jackson is never going to lead the league in sacks, and he may never even lead the Chiefs.

When he signs a rookie contract that guarantees him around $30 million, we’ll roll our eyes and wonder why. We won’t truly appreciate Jackson until the Chiefs start winning games.

[doomy3]

Did you actually read my post?

Guess not.

Yeah, I read it.

I just think you're full of shit.

And coming off as a serious crybaby.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Wait, are you now claiming that you'd have 'accepted' Curry if he'd been taken #3? If so, kindly point to the evidence of that in some pre-draft thread(s). I'd love to see it.



That was you in this very thread.

I guess your reading comprehension is on-par with Doomy and TTC:

As much as I was against the drafting of Aaron Curry, had I known we were going to take Jackson, I would have advocated taking Curry, and hoping the coaching staff spent every waking moment into making the guy a serviceable pass rusher.

Can't make it much more clear than that.

Was Curry my first choice? Hell no.

Would he (or Raji) been preferred over Jackson?

You bet your ass.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Not having taken the time to look it up, weren't you one of the people flaming posters on here for wanting to take Curry?

Another reader.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yeah, I read it.

I just think you're full of shit.

And coming off as a serious crybaby.

Aw, Doomy doesn't like me.

Bummer.

[Ultra Peanut]

I don't really agree that the DEs are as important as NTs and pass rushers.

[doomy3]

I guess your reading comprehension is on-par with Doomy and TTC:



Can't make it much more clear than that.

Was Curry my first choice? Hell no.

Would he (or Raji) been preferred over Jackson?

You bet your ass.


But the point remains, that no matter who we drafted, Raji and Curry included, you would still be bitching about the pick because Sanchez wasn't the selection.

[doomy3]

Aw, Doomy doesn't like me.

Bummer.

Actually, I think you're a really solid poster. But, you're life mission to be a martyr for this cause has gone a bit overboard.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I thought Whitlock said it pretty well back on draft weekend.

So instead of using the highest draft pick in team history on an impact player, Whitlock says it's OK because we drafted a guy that will allow the real impact players to make an impact.

Got it.

[Just Passin' By]

I guess your reading comprehension is on-par with Doomy and TTC:



Can't make it much more clear than that.

Was Curry my first choice? Hell no.

Would he (or Raji) been preferred over Jackson?

You bet your ass.

My reading comprehension is fine. Yours needs some work. You were against Curry. You simply prefer him to Jackson. Since preference wasn't my question and acceptance was, perhaps you should stop insulting others and start taking some vocabulary and comprehension lessons.

[Titty Meat]

OTW, I addressed why Jackson was a better pick then Curry. Also let me ask you this would you really draft a LB who only had 9 sacks in college and expect him to play OLB in a 3-4? That would be a hell of a gamble especially paying a guy 30 mil. With Jackson the Chiefs know what they are going to get. A guy whos athletic and can control the line which is the most important aspect of winning games in the NFL.

[Mecca]

Aw, Doomy doesn't like me.

Bummer.

He doesn't like me either, welcome to the party pal.

[the Talking Can]

this thread descended into parody in record time....

[doomy3]

He doesn't like me either, welcome to the party pal.

Well, that's because you're an enormous pompous douche.

[Mecca]

Well, that's because you're an enormous pompous douche.

Thanks for the compliment man!

[OnTheWarpath15]

But the point remains, that no matter who we drafted, Raji and Curry included, you would still be bitching about the pick because Sanchez wasn't the selection.

Sorry, but that's plain false.

We talked in the draft forum about how are pick was de-valued due to the Cassel trade - we all knew that we weren't in a great position.

I don't know anyone that expected us to take Jackson - at least not until Gosselin's mock came out - so to say that I would have been upset over Raji or Curry is ridiculous - especially when I said countless times that Raji would be my pick if we were passing on Sanchez.

I've come right out and said I wasn't a fan of Curry at the time, but knowing what we know now, I would have welcomed him knowing that it was him or Tyson Jackson.

[Tiger's Fan]

Another reader.

Look up hypocrite, then look in the mirror. You probably won't see anything until you start being intellectually honest.

Not holding my breath...

[Mecca]

Anyone who had read the draft forum pretty much knew that we all had decided that Raji was the pick we had to make after the Cassel trade, even Hamas who didn't like Raji said the same.

[Titty Meat]

Anyone who had read the draft forum pretty much knew that we all had decided that Raji was the pick we had to make after the Cassel trade, even Hamas who didn't like Raji said the same.

Good thing the Chiefs didn't draft him. He's not even signed and like you even said he was a red flag player.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Look up hypocrite, then look in the mirror. You probably won't see anything until you start being intellectually honest.

Not holding my breath...

FFS, I can't make it any clearer:

As much as I was against the drafting of Aaron Curry, had I known we were going to take Jackson, I would have advocated taking Curry, and hoping the coaching staff spent every waking moment into making the guy a serviceable pass rusher.

No, Curry wasn't at the top of my list.

But had you given me a choice between Aaron Curry and Tyson Jackson the night before the draft, I would have taken Curry 100 times out of 10.

[Hammock Parties]

this thread descended into parody in record time....

I know, I had no idea Tyson Jackson had polarized the Planet so well.

I'll milk this next week.

[Mecca]

I know, I had no idea Tyson Jackson had polarized the Planet so well.

I'll milk this next week.

Posting anything about this past draft will get 100 plus replies.

[doomy3]

Sorry, but that's plain false.

We talked in the draft forum about how are pick was de-valued due to the Cassel trade - we all knew that we weren't in a great position.

I don't know anyone that expected us to take Jackson - at least not until Gosselin's mock came out - so to say that I would have been upset over Raji or Curry is ridiculous - especially when I said countless times that Raji would be my pick if we were passing on Sanchez.

I've come right out and said I wasn't a fan of Curry at the time, but knowing what we know now, I would have welcomed him knowing that it was him or Tyson Jackson.

Anyone who had read the draft forum pretty much knew that we all had decided that Raji was the pick we had to make after the Cassel trade, even Hamas who didn't like Raji said the same.


Well, that's all fine and good. Maybe we should actually wait and see if Raji ends up being worth a shit before we declare him the better option. Simply because a guy happens to play a position of greater value doesn't automatically make him a better pick if he is an inferior player. I don't have a crystal ball like you guys, so maybe I'm missing something, but it isn't as if Raji was a can't miss type of prospect.

[the Talking Can]

I know, I had no idea Tyson Jackson had polarized the Planet so well.

I'll milk this next week.

the thread could be about cheerios and the same people would post the exact same thing....


"I like Wheaties, anyone who disagrees is proof that I am a freedom fighting martyr."

"I don't love Cheerios, but I'll eat them is nothing else is available"

"See! 90% of the Planet is against me...without my brilliant choice of B instead of A we would lose the Iraq War!"

rinse


wash



repeat

[Mecca]

It's called an opinion it has nothing to do with a crystal ball.

I thought opinions were good on a forum, should we all get rid of them and just say we're deferring to Pioli so then we can basically have no forum.

I mean really who wants to read. "yea such and such Pioli knows what he's doing" then a bunch of following replies of "yea" "this"

[Fish]

This thread will be a good one to bump after the season is over....

[Mr. Krab]

I know, I had no idea Tyson Jackson had polarized the Planet so well.

I'll milk this next week.

It's not Tyson Jackson that's doing the polarizing.

[Titty Meat]

Raji is pretty lazy not exactly the Haley/Pioli kind of player.

[Just Passin' By]

I've named 2 in this thread alone, ****stick.

Nice try though.

There have only been 4 LB's go Top 5 in the past 15 years, and none of them were, or in the case of Hawk, are worth their draft slot.

I'm not doubting Curry's talent, but it's not Top 5 talent we're talking about.

To be a Top 5 LB, you better be a Singletary/Lewis clone in the middle, or a Derrick Thomas/Lawrence Taylor type disruptive force on the outside.

Curry hasn't shown that he excels at either - but that he's a well rounded, athletic guy.

That makes him a 8-15 guy, IMO. Top 5 is ridiculous, and Top 3 is career suicide for a GM.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5505524&highlight=curry#post5505524

http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/images/smilies/th_coffee.gif

[OnTheWarpath15]

Well, that's all fine and good. Maybe we should actually wait and see if Raji ends up being worth a shit before we declare him the better option. Simply because a guy happens to play a position of greater value doesn't automatically make him a better pick if he is an inferior player. I don't have a crystal ball like you guys, so maybe I'm missing something, but it isn't as if Raji was a can't miss type of prospect.

I disagree.

What Raji does has nothing to do with it.

Hell, David Carr was a bust. But could he have been serviceable with better coaching and more talent around him?

Raji could be a superstar in GB, or have been a complete bust in KC. Or vice-versa. We'll never know.

[Mecca]

Raji is pretty lazy not exactly the Haley/Pioli kind of player.

He's a big fat guy, most of them are pretty lazy.

[OnTheWarpath15]

the thread could be about cheerios and the same people would post the exact same thing....


"I like Wheaties, anyone who disagrees is proof that I am a freedom fighting martyr."

"I don't love Cheerios, but I'll eat them is nothing else is available"

"See! 90% of the Planet is against me...without my brilliant choice of B instead of A we would lose the Iraq War!"

rinse


wash



repeat

Had someone read this post to me, I would have sworn it was the work of Hootie.

[DeezNutz]

Well, that's all fine and good. Maybe we should actually wait and see if Raji ends up being worth a shit before we declare him the better option. Simply because a guy happens to play a position of greater value doesn't automatically make him a better pick if he is an inferior player. I don't have a crystal ball like you guys, so maybe I'm missing something, but it isn't as if Raji was a can't miss type of prospect.

Ultimately, this is true, but I don't think it's fair to talk about the draft in hindsight. With Raji in particular, we're at least talking about a similarly rated player (according to all reports). Can't miss? Hardly. But this is true of all players, even Stafford, who was rightly the consensus #1.

[doomy3]

I disagree.

What Raji does has nothing to do with it.

Hell, David Carr was a bust. But could he have been serviceable with better coaching and more talent around him?

Raji could be a superstar in GB, or have been a complete bust in KC. Or vice-versa. We'll never know.

So, you're saying that simply because Raji plays NT, he should have been the pick over Jackson. Even if Pioli/Haley graded Jackson a much higher grade, position value notwithstanding?

[OnTheWarpath15]

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5505524&highlight=curry#post5505524

http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/images/smilies/th_coffee.gif

And I still believe that, you fucking tool.

It doesn't change the fact that if you give me a choice between only Curry and Jackson, I'll take my chances with Jackson.

Terri Schiavo could follow this, I'm not sure why you're struggling with it.

[Titty Meat]

He's a big fat guy, most of them are pretty lazy.

Yea but he didn't even play his Junior season cuz of Grades. So he's lazy and stupid which is a contradiction of what Pioli said he was looking for in a player when he was introduced as a GM here. And if we're debating Jackson Vs Curry I would take Jackson for reasons already stated. You and OTW are smart guys I know you wouldn't draft a cover LB at 3 and then expect him to be a OLB in a 3-4.

[doomy3]

Ultimately, this is true, but I don't think it's fair to talk about the draft in hindsight. With Raji in particular, we're talking at least talking about a similarly rated player (according to all reports). Can't miss? Hardly. But this is true of all players, even Stafford, who was rightly the consensus #1.

Raji did have a lot of red flags before the draft. Those still hold true.

[KCUnited]

I'm excited.

Dude said after the draft that nobody will able to run to his side. Sacks are nice, but watching the defense get gashed every weekend was demoralizing. I'm excited to see him back up his words.

Piss on the draft.

[Just Passin' By]

And I still believe that, you ****ing tool.

It doesn't change the fact that if you give me a choice between only Curry and Jackson, I'll take my chances with Jackson.

Terri Schiavo could follow this, I'm not sure why you're struggling with it.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5962173&postcount=94

Again, the comprehension issue is clearly not mine.

[DeezNutz]

And I still believe that, you ****ing tool.

It doesn't change the fact that if you give me a choice between only Curry and Jackson, I'll take my chances with Jackson.

Terri Schiavo could follow this, I'm not sure why you're struggling with it.

It's like a Bugs Bunny cartoon.

Rabbit!
Duck!
Rabbit!
Duck!
Rabbit!
Rabbit!
Duck!

Oops. Fuck.

[doomy3]

And I still believe that, you ****ing tool.

It doesn't change the fact that if you give me a choice between only Curry and Jackson, I'll take my chances with Jackson.

Terri Schiavo could follow this, I'm not sure why you're struggling with it.

I guess you meant to say you'd take your chances with Curry.

Terri Schiavo could type that, I'm not sure why you struggled with it.

[DeezNutz]

Raji did have a lot of red flags before the draft. Those still hold true.

Absolutely.

And Jackson has long, fucked up hair. Until that motherfucker cuts it, I have no trust in his athletic abilities. Plus he has a brother who once talked to his agent, which we know is never good. Plus there was that bitch in HS who said that he slipped her the tongue unexpectedly, which is never, ever good...

[OnTheWarpath15]

I guess you meant to say you'd take your chances with Curry.

Terri Schiavo could type that, I'm not sure why you struggled with it.

Exactly what I mean.

Touche.

:clap:

[doomy3]

Absolutely.

And Jackson has long, ****ed up hair. Until that mother****er cuts it, I have no trust in his athletic abilities. Plus he has a brother who once talked to his agent, which we know is never good. Plus there was that bitch in HS who said that he slipped her the tongue unexpectedly, which is never, ever good...

Come on, give me a break.

Raji is known to have a poor work ethic and to be dumb.

[doomy3]

Exactly what I mean.

Touche.

:clap:

LMAO

[Mecca]

Yea but he didn't even play his Junior season cuz of Grades. So he's lazy and stupid which is a contradiction of what Pioli said he was looking for in a player when he was introduced as a GM here. And if we're debating Jackson Vs Curry I would take Jackson for reasons already stated. You and OTW are smart guys I know you wouldn't draft a cover LB at 3 and then expect him to be a OLB in a 3-4.

NT isn't a position that I'd be to concerned with how smart he is, it doesn't take a brilliant man to play it.

Now with Curry if you take him you pray he's Mayo because I think in a 3-4 type of defense he's playing in the middle.

[OnTheWarpath15]

NT isn't a position that I'd be to concerned with how smart he is, it doesn't take a brilliant man to play it.

Now with Curry if you take him you pray he's Mayo because I think in a 3-4 type of defense he's playing in the middle.

Even in the middle, he'd make more of an impact than the 5-tech, IMO.

[DeezNutz]

Come on, give me a break.

Raji is known to have a poor work ethic and to be dumb.

We've now correctly classified 98% of all NFL rosters. It's more accurate to debate the level of stupidity, not that the stupidity isn't present.

The work ethic is certainly a concern, but is this more or less disconcerting than selecting someone who really isn't an "impact" player with the #3 overall pick?

(For the record, I think we make the discussion of "impact" too reductive. Jackson is definitely an impact player; it's the level of impact that we're really debating.)

[doomy3]

I think it's going to be hysterical when Curry is a star and all the guys on here, who spent the entire offseason calling anyone who mentioned taking him morons, will be saying, "told you he was the pick we should have made instead of Jackson."

[Titty Meat]

NT isn't a position that I'd be to concerned with how smart he is, it doesn't take a brilliant man to play it.

Now with Curry if you take him you pray he's Mayo because I think in a 3-4 type of defense he's playing in the middle.

Yea at #3 I don't think you makepick like that. With Jackson I think Pioli knows what he's getting. If you look at the Patriots 1st round picks theres not really any that I would say are sexy picks.

[Mecca]

"When Curry is a star"

Depends on your definition of star, to show you how greatly LB's affect the game...it's a position consistently good teams like the Eagles and Colts do not spend money on at all.

The Seahawks had 2 pro bowl LB's last year and won 4 games....

[Brock]

I think it's going to be hysterical when Curry is a star and all the guys on here, who spent the entire offseason calling anyone who mentioned taking him morons, will be saying, "told you he was the pick we should have made instead of Jackson."

When he has 4 sacks in 2 years, I'm sure some around here will be going "See, we told you he could be taught to rush the passer".

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think it's going to be hysterical when Curry is a star and all the guys on here, who spent the entire offseason calling anyone who mentioned taking him morons, will be saying, "told you he was the pick we should have made instead of Jackson."

Dude, I've been saying it the entire thread.

However, what he does in Seattle is irrelevant, as they play a 4-3.

But I'm firmly of the opinion that Curry would be more of an impact player playing out of position in the middle of a 3-4 than Jackson will be.

[Baby Lee]

So instead of using the highest draft pick in team history on an impact player, Whitlock says it's OK because we drafted a guy that will allow the real impact players to make an impact.

Got it.

If those players would otherwise be unable to do so, isn't that . . . what's the word? . . and impact?

[keg in kc]

Even in the middle, he'd make more of an impact than the 5-tech, IMO.If raw stats are the only way you measure impact, then maybe. If impact is measured in terms of what his presence can mean for the defense as a whole, then Jackson could potentially have a great deal of impact.

In the end, in any case, it's never about one player. The job at hand is to put together a group of players that becomes great together. Which makes the question whether or not Jackson can be a key element of that cohesion and success.

[Iowanian]

I don't know why....I've got more reason to be excited about the Chiefs this year than in the past, if nothing else because of the changes.


But for some reason, maybe that i'm so damn busy in real life, I've really struggling to give a damn so far.

[Titty Meat]

I don't know why....I've got more reason to be excited about the Chiefs this year than in the past, if nothing else because of the changes.


But for some reason, maybe that i'm so damn busy in real life, I've really struggling to give a damn so far.

It's only the first week of training camp.

[DeezNutz]

If raw stats are the only way you measure impact, then maybe. If impact is measured in terms of what his presence can mean for the defense as a whole, then Jackson could potentially have a great deal of impact.

In the end, in any case, it's never about one player. The job at hand is to put together a group of players that becomes great together. Which makes the question whether or not Jackson can be a key element of that cohesion and success.

This is a nice job of elaborating upon my comment that our discussions of "impact," more often than not, are too reductive.

I would expect no less from a distinguished poster who casts a large shadow over CP. literally

[OnTheWarpath15]

If raw stats are the only way you measure impact, then maybe. If impact is measured in terms of what his presence can mean for the defense as a whole, then Jackson could potentially have a great deal of impact.

In the end, in any case, it's never about one player. The job at hand is to put together a group of players that becomes great together. Which makes the question whether or not Jackson can be a key element of that cohesion and success.

This is a nice job of elaborating upon my comment that our discussions of "impact," more often than not, are too reductive.

I would expect no less from a distinguished poster who casts a large shadow over CP. literally

Question for both of you:

Most people didn't feel that there was much of a difference between Jackson, and Jarron Gilbert, who was picked 2 rounds later.

It seems to me that a similar "impact" in the way the two of you define the word could have been attained with a player taken much later.

It's like taking a offensive guard with the 3rd overall pick.

Yeah, he'll make an impact based on your definition, but that doesn't make him worth the 3rd overall pick in anyone's eyes.

Don't you think that a player taken with the 3rd overall pick should be making the impact personally as opposed to making a so-called impact by allowing others to be great?

[Hammock Parties]

Most people didn't feel that there was much of a difference between Jackson, and Jarron Gilbert, who was picked 2 rounds later.


Do you really think Pioli is this dumb?

[keg in kc]

Most people didn't feel that there was much of a difference between Jackson, and Jarron Gilbert, who was picked 2 rounds later."Most people" meaning who? It seems to me that the people whose opinions actually count in a real way saw an enormous difference between the two with one going at 3 (and rumored at 5 and/or 9) and the other going at, what, 68?It seems to me that a similar "impact" in the way the two of you define the word could have been attained with a player taken much later.

It's like taking a offensive guard with the 3rd overall pick.

Yeah, he'll make an impact based on your definition, but that doesn't make him worth the 3rd overall pick in anyone's eyes.He must've been worth the 3rd overall pick in somebody's eyes. I mean, you know, since he was picked 3rd and all.Don't you think that a player taken with the 3rd overall pick should be making the impact personally as opposed to making a so-called impact by allowing others to be great?I think I'd like to see him play before I try to gauge how much impact he can or can't have. I'm not real big on pulling predictions out of the ether. For all I know he, tank and dorsey could be the best trio of linemen in the league when paired together. Or the worst. Talk is great and all,argue until you're blue in the face if you don't have anything better to do, but at the end of the day it doesn't actually mean anything. This is a game about performance. And he hasn't earned a bad pick label any more than he's earned his gigantic contract at this point. We'll learn whether it was the right move or not, or whether he's an impact player or not, over the next couple of years of Sundays. Nobody knows now.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Do you really think Pioli is this dumb?

I'm not saying he's dumb by any means.

However, if you aren't at all curious as to why Jackson apparently HAD to be the pick...

[DeezNutz]

Don't you think that a player taken with the 3rd overall pick should be making the impact personally as opposed to making a so-called impact by allowing others to be great?

Absolutely. Ideally, of course.

But we have to change the tenor of the conversation when we're talking about a guy like Curry, who might put up some flashy numbers as far as individual tackles, what not, compared to a guy like Jackson who might have the larger "impact" on the defense as a whole. Individually, less striking, but, big picture, more meaningful.

I can only hope that there is a huge difference between Jackson and a guy taken in round 3. Admittedly, I'm not 100 percent certain there is, but Pioli has gone balls deep, so I can respect the risk.

[Baby Lee]

For all I know he, tank and dorsey could be the best trio of linemen in the league when paired together.
Heee!!!!

[OnTheWarpath15]

"Most people" meaning who? It seems to me that the people whose opinions actually count in a real way saw an enormous difference between the two with one going at 3 (and rumored at 5 and/or 9) and the other going at, what, 68?

I'm sure the fact that few if any teams running the 3-4 were as desperate for a DE than the Chiefs were has nothing to do with it.

And that the majority of the league doesn't place a high premium on 3-4 DE's.

[Hammock Parties]

I'm not saying he's dumb by any means.

However, if you aren't at all curious as to why Jackson apparently HAD to be the pick...

I think it's pretty obvious.

Pioli thinks he's as good as Dick Seymour.

[MMXcalibur]

Considering how the last few picks we have been excited about have turned out, maybe this apathy is a good thing.

<table align="center" border="1"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><th align="left">Round</th><th align="left">Year</th><th align="center">Pick</th><th align="center">Player</th><th align="left">Name</th><th align="left">Position</th><th align="left">College</th></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td align="left">1</td><td align="right">2009</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="right">3</td><td align="left">Tyson Jackson</td><td align="left">DE</td><td align="left">Louisiana State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2008</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="right">5</td><td align="left">Glenn Dorsey</td><td align="left">DT</td><td align="left">Louisiana State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2008</td><td align="right">15</td><td align="right">15</td><td align="left">Branden Albert</td><td align="left"> G</td><td align="left">Virginia</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2007</td><td align="right">23</td><td align="right">23</td><td align="left">Dwayne Bowe</td><td align="left">WR</td><td align="left">Louisiana State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2006</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="right">20</td><td align="left">Tamba Hali</td><td align="left">DE</td><td align="left">Penn State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2005</td><td align="right">15</td><td align="right">15</td><td align="left">Derrick O. Johnson</td><td align="left">LB</td><td align="left">Texas</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2003</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="left">Larry Johnson</td><td align="left">RB</td><td align="left">Penn State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2002</td><td align="right">6</td><td align="right">6</td><td align="left">Ryan Sims</td><td align="left">DT</td><td align="left">North Carolina</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">2000</td><td align="right">21</td><td align="right">21</td><td align="left">Sylvester Morris</td><td align="left">WR</td><td align="left">Jackson State</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccff"><td>
</td><td align="right">1999</td><td align="right">14</td><td align="right">14</td><td align="left">John Tait</td><td align="left"> T</td><td align="left">Brigham Young</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td>
</td><td align="right">1998</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="right">27</td><td align="left">Victor Riley</td><td align="left"> T</td><td align="left">Auburn</td></tr></tbody></table>

This list is why the excitement is kept to a minimum. I think a good majority of Chiefs fans are just expecting Jackson to be as effective or less (if that's possible) than our past defensive line acquisitions. I don't think you can fault everyone for being a bit gun-shy with the selection of Jackson. I know this has been beaten to death and a few are sick of hearing it, but I just have to believe that Pioli's got an eye for greatness. :shrug:

[DaneMcCloud]

When Chiefs fans see this season how incredibly bad the receiving corp is without Gonzalez (and that's IF Engram even makes the team), everyone will be wishing that the Chiefs had taken Crabtree, not Jackson.

I was not an advocate of Crabtree in the top 5, but considering the Chiefs didn't want or need a QB or LT, Curry doesn't play an impact position and Jackson may not be any better than Jauron Gilbert, Crabtree would have probably made the quickest (and possibly best long-term) impact of any of the top ten players in the 2009 draft for the Chiefs.

Oh well. Here's to another Top Five pick in 2010.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I'd like to see someone, anyone, tell us why they think that taking a 5-technique with the highest pick in franchise history is a good idea - and do so without answering the question with the question, "who should we have taken?" or by just saying that Pioli is a fuggin genius, therefore, he's a great pick.

As much as I was against the drafting of Aaron Curry, had I known we were going to take Jackson, I would have advocated taking Curry, and hoping the coaching staff spent every waking moment into making the guy a serviceable pass rusher.

Or, if we were going to try to fit this square peg into a round hole by switching to a 3-4, at least take the guy who plays the hardest position to fill - Raji.

You ask the impossible, Warpath-san.

I don't even know what Talking Can talks about anymore.

He went from calling people true fans and railing on the Chiefs being stupid to slurping the sauce in the snap of a finger.

6 months ago, TTC would be carving this guy a new asshole.

Now, he's exactly what he despised.

And it's for those very reasons that I can not stand that son of a bitch. I don't wan't to read his comments; he has no principles.
And I don't want to look at that stupid fucking "Hermlip" avatar of his either.

The Talking Chlamydia is dead to me. Hallelujah.

If you're tired of that debate quit asking the question.

No shit.:LOL:

It's the same circular argument for Mecca and OTW. The reality is that there were no players that they'd have 'accepted' at the #3 slot other than Sanchez. They can't separate that from their arguments about everything else, so it keeps coming back to square one on every single thread remotely tied to the draft or to Jackson.

YOU and your fucking idiot douche-crew keep bringing it back to Sanchez, you arrogant, gas-bag motherfucker. I don't know who the fuck your team is, and I don't really care, but why don't you head on over to your team's message board and leave the Chiefs talk to people who have a vested interest in the team.

Bill Belichick, the coach of a team that's won 3 Super Bowls this decade, clearly disagrees with you. His partner during that span, Scott Pioli, clearly sides with Belichick over you.

It's really that simple.

<--- Cue "Can't disagree with Pioli....." rant as if pointing out how the Patriots achieved their success somehow diminishes the argument that the most successful team of the decade has become that by doing precisely what OTW says you don't do.

Cue PIOLI! BELICHICK! PIOLI! BELICHICK!

I just love it when the "Just Passing Gas" rock and roll review launches in to their BIG HIT!

1, 2, 3, 4:

"PIOLI"! "BELICHICK"! "PIOLI"! "BELICHICK"!

SECOND VERSE, SAME AS THE FIRST!

"PIOLI"! "BELICHICK"! "PIOLI"! "BELICHICK"!

Aw, Doomy doesn't like me.

Bummer.

He doesn't like me either, welcome to the party pal.

Fear not, the end draws near for Doomy.

I think it's pretty obvious.

Pioli thinks he's as good as Dick Seymour.

1, 2, 3, 4:

"PIOLI"! "BELICHICK"! "PIOLI"! "BELICHICK"!

:whackit::whackit::whackit::whackit::whackit::whackit::whackit::whackit:

[Just Passin' By]

You ask the impossible, Warpath-san.





And it's for those very reasons that I can not stand that son of a bitch. I don't wan't to read his comments; he has no principles.
And I don't want to look at that stupid ****ing "Hermlip" avatar of his either.

The Talking Chlamydia is dead to me. Hallelujah.



No shit.:LOL:



YOU and your ****ing idiot douche-crew keep bringing it back to Sanchez, you arrogant, gas-bag mother****er. I don't know who the **** your team is, and I don't really care, but why don't you head on over to your team's message board and leave the Chiefs talk to people who have a vested interest in the team.



Cue PIOLI! BELICHICK! PIOLI! BELICHICK!

I just love it when the "Just Passing Gas" rock and roll review launches in to their BIG HIT!

1, 2, 3, 4:

"PIOLI"! "BELICHICK"! "PIOLI"! "BELICHICK"!

SECOND VERSE, SAME AS THE FIRST!

"PIOLI"! "BELICHICK"! "PIOLI"! "BELICHICK"!





Fear not, the end draws near for Doomy.



1, 2, 3, 4:

"PIOLI"! "BELICHICK"! "PIOLI"! "BELICHICK"!

:whackit::whackit::whackit::whackit::whackit::whackit::whackit::whackit:

How cute! The lapdog has arrived and is yipping away.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

How cute! The lapdog has arrived and is yipping away.

Really?(looks around)When did your sister enter the building?

[Micjones]

Who cares whether or not SOME fans are excited?
IF and when he becomes a Richard Seymour type of Defensive End...they'll come around.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Who cares whether or not SOME fans are excited?
IF and when he becomes a Richard Seymour type of Defensive End...they'll come around.

If/when he becomes a RS type, I'll not only be very happy and surprised, I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

Just like when/if Matt Cassel leads this team to a Super Bowl win, I'll not only be very happy and surprised, I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

[DaneMcCloud]

Who cares whether or not SOME fans are excited?
IF and when he becomes a Richard Seymour type of Defensive End...they'll come around.

No they won't.

The overwhelming majority of fans do not watch line play. Even if Jackson becomes 75% of Richard Seymour, people won't care.

It's not a glamorous position.

[Micjones]

If/when he becomes a RS type, I'll not only be very happy and surprised, I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

Just like when/if Matt Cassel leads this team to a Super Bowl win, I'll not only be very happy and surprised, I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

That's my point.

[Micjones]

No they won't.

The overwhelming majority of fans do not watch line play. Even if Jackson becomes 75% of Richard Seymour, people won't care.

It's not a glamorous position.

If he becomes a Seymour type the Pro Bowl berths will tell them all they need to know. More importantly, that play will affect more than just the line. We'll see LB's benefitting from what TJ does.

[OnTheWarpath15]

That's my point.

Just throwing it out there, since there are some folks here that seem to think they know more about my thoughts and opinions than I do.

[DaneMcCloud]

If he becomes a Seymour type the Pro Bowl berths will tell them all they need to know. More importantly, that play will affect more than just the line. We'll see LB's benefitting from what TJ does.

It should help Zach Thomas get to his wheelchair a little sooner between series

[Micjones]

Just throwing it out there, since there are some folks here that seem to think they know more about my thoughts and opinions than I do.

Sure I get it.

I don't know who is and isn't skeptical of Jackson though so I can't really be trying to represent anyone else's opinions. I'm not at all interested in that anyway. I'm just speaking to the nature of most NFL fans.

[Micjones]

It should help Zach Thomas get to his wheelchair a little sooner between series

LMAO

Thank God he'll be around for a while after the Z-man hangs it up.

[OnTheWarpath15]

If he becomes a Seymour type the Pro Bowl berths will tell them all they need to know. More importantly, that play will affect more than just the line. We'll see LB's benefitting from what TJ does.

Not picking on you, mic, but since the dreaded PB words came up...

When are people going to quit using the fucking Pro Bowl as a barometer?

FFS, the FANS vote on it. It's a goddamn popularity contest, not a collection of the best players of a particular season.

"Well, he must be a great player, he made the Pro Bowl!"

:shake:

[Micjones]

Not picking on you, mic, but since the dreaded PB words came up...

When are people going to quit using the fucking Pro Bowl as a barometer?

FFS, the FANS vote on it. It's a goddamn popularity contest, not a collection of the best players of a particular season.

"Well, he must be a great player, he made the Pro Bowl!"

:shake:

It's the standard for the NFL.
I'm not sure you can undersell its importance.
Now... Certainly it's not the end-all be-all of the National Football League, but... How many players are invited to Honolulu annually that flat don't deserve to be there?

[Halfcan]

There was more "**** YOU LJ AND **** YOU CARL!!!!!" excitement, fo sho.

I think T-Jax will be very solid and I'm glad we (hopefully) have such a fundamental piece of the puzzle in place, but after the Dorsey letdown (/misuse) I can kind of see why people aren't pumped about a guy whose job description is basically to help stop the run and occupy linemen.

T jax??? wow that is lame-lol like BenLo or Arod but worse

signed

Hcan

[OnTheWarpath15]

It's the standard for the NFL.
I'm not sure you can undersell its importance.
Now... Certainly it's not the end-all be-all of the National Football League, but... How many players are invited to Honolulu annually that flat don't deserve to be there?

Very easily.

Anything the fans decide on shouldn't be a standard for the league.

Brett Favre over Philip Rivers at QB?

Gimmeafuckingbreak.

[Mecca]

LMAO

Thank God he'll be around for a while after the Z-man hangs it up.

This makes me want to make a Tom Zenk joke but 3 people will get it.

[DaneMcCloud]

It's the standard for the NFL.
I'm not sure you can undersell its importance.
Now... Certainly it's not the end-all be-all of the National Football League, but... How many players are invited to Honolulu annually that flat don't deserve to be there?

Actually, the All-Pro list is far more indicative of the most talented players in the league than the Pro-Bowl.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Actually, the All-Pro list is far more indicative of the most talented players in the league than the Pro-Bowl.

This.

[Micjones]

Very easily.

Anything the fans decide on shouldn't be a standard for the league.

Brett Favre over Philip Rivers at QB?

Gimmeafuckingbreak.

That one was a head-scratcher.
There will always be snubs, but that one is inexcusable.

That said, I don't know that that spoils the Pro Bowl's value entirely.

[Micjones]

Actually, the All-Pro list is far more indicative of the most talented players in the league than the Pro-Bowl.

I'm good with that.
The PB is the Golden Globe. The All Pro is the Oscar.

Let's NOT pretend that the All Pro selections are always the most accurate though...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

It's the standard for the NFL.
I'm not sure you can undersell its importance.
Now... Certainly it's not the end-all be-all of the National Football League, but... How many players are invited to Honolulu annually that flat don't deserve to be there?

Up until last year, I would have agreed with you.

Riddle Me This:

What suckass QB had no business whatsoever being in Hawaii?

[OnTheWarpath15]

That one was a head-scratcher.
There will always be snubs, but that one is inexcusable.

That said, I don't know that that spoils the Pro Bowl's value entirely.

I guess we just disagree on this one.

Had Rivers been left off the All-Pro team, I'd call that a snub.

Being left off the Pro Bowl team wasn't a snub, it was flat out ignorance.

Fans are going to vote for their guys, whether they deserve it or not. That destroys every ounce of value the Pro Bowl might have ever had, IMO.

[Titty Meat]

Fave making the pro-bowl instead of Rivers proves how big of a joke the pro bowl is.

[Kyle DeLexus]

So what LSU player are we going to take in the 1st round this next draft?

[Micjones]

I guess we just disagree on this one.


Yeah. Let's do that.

Cause fans aren't alone in the voting process.
Coaches and players vote too... And they make up the majority.

[OnTheWarpath15]

So what LSU player are we going to take in the 1st round this next draft?

"With the 5th pick in the 2010 NFL Draft, the Kansas City Chiefs select:

Brandon LaFell, WR, LSU"


BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Mecca]

So what LSU player are we going to take in the 1st round this next draft?

Ciron Black? Brandon Lafell?

As of now those are the 2 probably going in the first round.

[Halfcan]

Up until last year, I would have agreed with you.

Riddle Me This:

What suckass QB had no business whatsoever being in Hawaii?

Cuntler of the DOnks

[OnTheWarpath15]

Ciron Black? Brandon Lafell?

As of now those are the 2 probably going in the first round.

Not THAT early...

LMAO

[Mecca]

Um dudes Mike Vick made the pro bowl it's not like you guys are even giving the worst examples.

John Lynch made it when he was 38 and moved like a slug.

[Mecca]

Not THAT early...

LMAO.

Yea well if you told me Tyson Jackson was going 3rd this time last year I'd have said....."what the hell dumbass team is gonna do that?"

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Cuntler of the DOnks


DING-DING-DING! We have a winner!:)

[OnTheWarpath15]

Cuntler of the DOnks

DING-DING-DING! We have a winner!:)

Cutler deserved it much, much more than Brett Favre.

[LaChapelle]

With over 200 posts it's probably been mentioned, Cassel kinda stole the newbie thunder.

[OnTheWarpath15]

2 of these guys deserved it, 2 didn't:

http://i30.tinypic.com/2zrzvus.jpg

[Titty Meat]

Kerry Collins made the pro bowl? Thats why I don't watch the pro bowl

[Crush]

This makes me want to make a Tom Zenk joke but 3 people will get it.


Now, Mecca, Rick Martel would like a word with you.

[Just Passin' By]

2 of these guys deserved it, 2 didn't:

http://i30.tinypic.com/2zrzvus.jpg

The timing of the vote comes into play, too. Also, Cassel should have been in the argument if you're basing it on numbers, as well.

[Mecca]

Now, Mecca, Rick Martel would like a word with you.

See someone got it!

Zenk turning into an extremely bitter bastard in later years made it all better.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The timing of the vote comes into play, too. Also, Cassel should have been in the argument if you're basing it on numbers, as well.

I wouldn't have had a problem with Cassel being the 4th guy behind Rivers, Manning and Cutler.

[Crush]

See someone got it!

Zenk turning into an extremely bitter bastard in later years made it all better.


This

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Cutler deserved it much, much more than Brett Favre.

Well, if Gonzo can go on two wins, I guess anything is possible. I still contend that the "Cutler Franchise" crowd is making more out of this guy than what's really there.

[doomy3]

Well, if Gonzo can go on two wins, I guess anything is possible. I still contend that the "Cutler Franchise" crowd is making more out of this guy than what's really there.

I think it's still hilarious to act like great players, like Gonzo, can't play on shitty teams and still be great. What the fuck more could TG have done to get us more wins?

[Boris The Great]

Most people didn\'t feel that there was much of a difference between Jackson, and Jarron Gilbert, who was picked 2 rounds later.

Not much of a difference in what way? In general terms both were considered top 3-4 DE prospects, but I would say its dubious to suggest most people didnt see much difference. About half the league is running a 3-4 now, including a few switching to it this offseason and needing to stock up on guys that fit the system, but only KC needed DEs in the first 67 picks?

But comparing the two players against each other, of course there are differences. Not just in their games, but their makeup. Gilbert is the guy who had that quote from a scout circulating about how he has no passion. Reports on Jackson talked about a mean streak and Pioli tells us how much he loves football. This is all important if a guy is supposed to be a linchpin of what you do.

Gilbert was a high prospect at the position, but that doesnt mean he would fill the same roles or be asked to do the same things as Jackson if he was here. Could you see the Pats taking a guy from the WAC with questions about passiveness and immediately expecting him to play a major role up front? He would be a guy in the rotation, but not someone they hang their hat on.

So when you say we could have gotten a guy two rounds later to make the same impact, that seems doubtful. I dont know if they would even put him in that kind of spot, and who can say Gilbert would pull it off when no 3-4 team even bit on him?

[Marcellus]

I think it's still hilarious to act like great players, like Gonzo, can't play on shitty teams and still be great. What the **** more could TG have done to get us more wins?

He could have been on the field and jumped in front of Bowe on that onsidekick against SD. Probably why he got traded.

[SAUTO]

I've named 2 in this thread alone, fuckstick.

Nice try though.

before the draft did you say that you would be happy with curry?

[SAUTO]

If getting a 5 technique DE was that important the Chiefs could have signed Chris Canty and Igor Olshansky combined for less money than Tyson Jackson...

LMAO maybe they didnt WANT canty or olshansky

[SAUTO]

I guess your reading comprehension is on-par with Doomy and TTC:



Can't make it much more clear than that.

Was Curry my first choice? Hell no.

Would he (or Raji) been preferred over Jackson?

You bet your ass.

LMAO well hindsight IS 20-20 right? had we drafted curry you would be bitching and saying "had i known we would have drafted curry i would have asked for _insert name"

[SAUTO]

It's called an opinion it has nothing to do with a crystal ball.
I thought opinions were good on a forum, should we all get rid of them and just say we're deferring to Pioli so then we can basically have no forum.

I mean really who wants to read. "yea such and such Pioli knows what he's doing" then a bunch of following replies of "yea" "this"

then leave it at an opinion, some people here feel and act as though their opinion is a fact. look at all the absolutes you all throw out

[SAUTO]

If/when he becomes a RS type, I'll not only be very happy and surprised, I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

Just like when/if Matt Cassel leads this team to a Super Bowl win, I'll not only be very happy and surprised, I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

LMAO so thats what you are back to? cassel has to win a superbowl for him to be a success here. you are an epic douchebag. hell even poor terry schiavo could understand that its a TEAM SPORT.

[Titty Meat]

I think it's still hilarious to act like great players, like Gonzo, can't play on shitty teams and still be great. What the **** more could TG have done to get us more wins?

The 2nd draft pick we got for Gonzalez will contribute to more wins then Gonzalez.

[Titty Meat]

Damn Sauto learn to use the Quote button my dude

[SAUTO]

Damn Sauto learn to use the Quote button my dude

why billay? i read through the thread and respond when i have an opinion on a post. why do you care?

[big nasty kcnut]

I am but keeping it in check.
Posted via Mobile Device

[KC Jones]

He makes more money then Seymour does right now....where he was picked actually says he should be better than Seymour already.

I've read a lot of dumb things on the planet. This is no where near the dumbest, but it's still dumb.

[Just Passin' By]

before the draft did you say that you would be happy with curry?

His words:

That makes him a 8-15 guy, IMO. Top 5 is ridiculous, and Top 3 is career suicide for a GM.

[KCTitus]

six wins in two years pretty much sucks the passion out of you for anything Chiefs related.

[OnTheWarpath15]

His words:

I'm not sure how many times I have to say this before it sinks in.

At the time, the prospect of taking Tyson Jackson was beyond ridiculous.

So, if you told me before the draft that I had to choose between Tyson Jackson and Aaron Curry, I'd have taken Curry.

And yes, I still stand behind the statement you quoted. If that doesn't give you an idea of how much I dislike the Jackson pick, then I can't help you.

[Just Passin' By]

I'm not sure how many times I have to say this before it sinks in.

At the time, the prospect of taking Tyson Jackson was beyond ridiculous.

So, if you told me before the draft that I had to choose between Tyson Jackson and Aaron Curry, I'd have taken Curry.

And yes, I still stand behind the statement you quoted. If that doesn't give you an idea of how much I dislike the Jackson pick, then I can't help you.

I love it because of what it says about your claim in this thread. The way you're trying to explain it away after getting caught just increases the fun:

My quote:

It's the same circular argument for Mecca and OTW. The reality is that there were no players that they'd have 'accepted' at the #3 slot other than Sanchez. They can't separate that from their arguments about everything else, so it keeps coming back to square one on every single thread remotely tied to the draft or to Jackson.

Your reply:

I've named 2 in this thread alone, ****stick.

Nice try though.

So, "accept" means to consider him career suicide for the GM that picks him......

brilliant!

[OnTheWarpath15]

I love it because of what it says about your claim in this thread. The way you're trying to explain it away after getting caught just increases the fun.

Getting caught? Telling the truth?

Looks like we have another guy who claims he knows more about my thoughts and opinions than I do.

I said the following NINE posts into the thread, WELL before you started pulling up comments I made months ago, before anyone ever mentioned Tyson Jackson:

I'd like to see someone, anyone, tell us why they think that taking a 5-technique with the highest pick in franchise history is a good idea - and do so without answering the question with the question, "who should we have taken?" or by just saying that Pioli is a fuggin genius, therefore, he's a great pick.

As much as I was against the drafting of Aaron Curry, had I known we were going to take Jackson, I would have advocated taking Curry, and hoping the coaching staff spent every waking moment into making the guy a serviceable pass rusher.

Or, if we were going to try to fit this square peg into a round hole by switching to a 3-4, at least take the guy who plays the hardest position to fill - Raji.




Please, keep going Ms. Cleo.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I love it because of what it says about your claim in this thread. The way you're trying to explain it away after getting caught just increases the fun:

My quote:



Your reply:



So, "accept" means to consider him career suicide for the GM that picks him......



brilliant!

No, brilliant is someone that doesn't comprehend the concept of "the lesser of two evils."

[Just Passin' By]

Getting caught? Telling the truth?

Looks like we have another guy who claims he knows more about my thoughts and opinions than I do.

I said the following NINE posts into the thread, WELL before you started pulling up comments I made months ago, before anyone ever mentioned Tyson Jackson:






Please, keep going Ms. Cleo.

Given that this post was not in reply to the post about players you would 'accept' (and neither was the 'lesser of two evils' argument for that matter), it means nothing. But you keep trying to spin your way out of it. The comedy value is tremendous.

[DeezNutz]

The 2nd draft pick we got for Gonzalez will contribute to more wins then Gonzalez.

When?

2010? No chance. 2011+? I sure hope so.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Given that this post was not in reply to the post about players you would 'accept' (and neither was the 'lesser of two evils' argument for that matter), it means nothing. But you keep trying to spin your way out of it. The comedy value is tremendous.

The only thing funny is you stalking me, and trying to claim you know my thoughts and intentions.

[DeezNutz]

I know that you intend to think about 'penz naked, and I'm telling you to stop for your own good.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I know that you intend to think about 'penz naked, and I'm telling you to stop for your own good.

LMAO

[beach tribe]

I'd like to see someone, anyone, tell us why they think that taking a 5-technique with the highest pick in franchise history is a good idea - and do so without answering the question with the question, "who should we have taken?" or by just saying that Pioli is a fuggin genius, therefore, he's a great pick.

As much as I was against the drafting of Aaron Curry, had I known we were going to take Jackson, I would have advocated taking Curry, and hoping the coaching staff spent every waking moment into making the guy a serviceable pass rusher.

Or, if we were going to try to fit this square peg into a round hole by switching to a 3-4, at least take the guy who plays the hardest position to fill - Raji.

I honestly think Raji is going to balloon into a fat lazy POS, and paying a 5 tec that kind of money is way better than paying an olb 36 mil guaranteed fo sho.

[Tiger's Fan]

I love it because of what it says about your claim in this thread. The way you're trying to explain it away after getting caught just increases the fun:

My quote:



Your reply:



So, "accept" means to consider him career suicide for the GM that picks him......

brilliant!

Franky, I'm suprised mecca hasn't chimed in about his extreme hatred of a flip flopper. But I guess we know why he hasn't.

As far as comedy value goes, this shit is the gold standard.

Some people just keep on diggin that hole...

[L.A. Chieffan]

we couldve traded down and we didnt even try, thats the only thing that pisses me off

[DaneMcCloud]

LMAO maybe they didnt WANT canty or olshansky

The question is, why not?

Canty with the Giants? Sick.

Olshansky had an "off" season last year but at $4 million per year, he certainly wasn't cost prohibitive.

[doomy3]

The question is, why not?

Canty with the Giants? Sick.

Olshansky had an "off" season last year but at $4 million per year, he certainly wasn't cost prohibitive.

What about Chris Canty makes you think he will be "sick"? He has never lived up to his potential, and that's probably why the Cowboys let him walk.

[DaneMcCloud]

What about Chris Canty makes you think he will be "sick"? He has never lived up to his potential, and that's probably why the Cowboys let him walk.

Are you joking?

We're not talking about Chris Canty, the former Kansas State defensive back.

We're talking about Chris Canty, the 3-4 defensive end from the Dallas Cowboys. The same guy who got $7 million per year from the Giants in a bidding war.

The same guy who was a 4th rounder.

I think you're confused.

Oh, and the Chiefs will LUCKY if Tyson Jackson does for this defense what Chris Canty did for Dallas.

[Just Passin' By]

The question is, why not?

Canty with the Giants? Sick.

Olshansky had an "off" season last year but at $4 million per year, he certainly wasn't cost prohibitive.

It would be interesting, indeed, to be able to sit down with a GM like Pioli and break down the 'why' and 'why not' aspect of offseason and regular season moves. Unfortunately, we're not likely to get that sort of insight unless a book is written which gives the writer the green light on such stuff. Belichick did it in the past, and the book does give some insight into a few players, but I don't know if it's something that most teams want out there.

[doomy3]

Are you joking?

We're not talking about Chris Canty, the former Kansas State defensive back.

We're talking about Chris Canty, the 3-4 defensive end from the Dallas Cowboys. The same guy who got $7 million per year from the Giants in a bidding war.

The same guy who was a 4th rounder.

I think you're confused.


No, I'm not confused at all. He is a solid, unspectacular player who is getting paid for his great size IMO. It will be interesting to see how the Giants use him since he really isn't a prototypical 4-3 end or DT. Plus, they already have a loaded line. Canty will be a rotational player for them.

[DaneMcCloud]

No, I'm not confused at all. He is a solid, unspectacular player who is getting paid for his great size IMO. It will be interesting to see how the Giants use him since he really isn't a prototypical 4-3 end or DT. Plus, they already have a loaded line. Canty will be a rotational player for them.

Unspectacular? You mean like Tyson Jackson will become, hopefully?

An "unspectacular" guy that eats up runners and lineman so that the team can have 55 sacks?

That kind of unspectacular?

In case you weren't aware, Dallas didn't re-sign him because they are out of money.

Jones has put sooooo much into the new stadium that he's currently cash poor.

[Mecca]

Canty is going to be a starting DT for the Giants....plus he gives them the ability to show 3-4 looks if they want...

The Giants defense has a ton of front 7 versatility.

Chris Canty is a really good player I don't know where this idea that he isn't is coming from..other than he was a 3-4 end so no one notices.

[Chiefless]

So instead of using the highest draft pick in team history on an impact player, Whitlock says it's OK because we drafted a guy that will allow the real impact players to make an impact.

Got it.

Isn't the guy playing well enough to "allow the real impact players to make an impact," in fact, "making an impact?" Or, do I not understand what "making an impact" is?