View Full Version : Life Who is the greatest American villain?
Rain Man
08-31-2009, 05:15 PM
A Charles Manson reference in another thread got me thinking about this. Who is the greatest villain in American history, the one that will draw the most ire from any right-thinking American?
Give me some options and I'll put up a poll. Nominees can come from any category: war, politics, crime, business, finance, celebrity, sports, child care, Benetton models, comic strip artists (Bil Keane, anyone?), or others. Give me your best shot.
The rules:
1. We're talking true villainy here. Villainy where you can't really defend anything the person did at a dinner party without getting winces.
2. We're talking national scale. Remember, the kicker that shall go unnamed is a hero in Indianapolis.
3. Real life only. While many may villainize Elmer Fudd for his relentless and brazen murderous stalking of Bugs Bunny, Mr. Fudd does not actually exist, and therefore any villainous acts committed by Mr. Fudd do not exist, either.
4. The villain must be an American citizen, or if their villainy took place before 1783, a resident of the area that would eventually become the United State AND acting against the United States for villainous reasons rather than sincere loyalty to another country in conflict with nascent American liberty movements or peoples and in the absence of a history of loyalty to American causes.
Once I get 20 reasonable candidates, I'll post the poll.
Mojo Jojo
08-31-2009, 05:21 PM
Two words...O. J.
Dante84
08-31-2009, 05:22 PM
Dick Cheney....
right?
Halfcan
08-31-2009, 05:22 PM
George Bush Jr.
Osama bin Laden is the obvious choice.
Bernie Madoff too.
Dante84
08-31-2009, 05:23 PM
This guy:
Adept Havelock
08-31-2009, 05:23 PM
I'd say Timothy McVeigh belongs on the list.
Rain Man
08-31-2009, 05:23 PM
Marlo Stanfield.
After some initial research on the Stanfield nomination, I'll offer a rule revision that the villain must actually exist in real life. But thank you for your excellent nomination.
Marcellus
08-31-2009, 05:24 PM
Ted Bundy
Timothy McVeigh (my choice)
Mojo Jojo
08-31-2009, 05:24 PM
George Bush Jr.
No such person exists. Maybe you mean George W. Bush the son of George H.W. Bush. Never was a "Jr."
Marcellus
08-31-2009, 05:25 PM
I'd say Timothy McVeigh belongs on the list.
Beat me to it.
BigChiefFan
08-31-2009, 05:25 PM
John Wilkes Booth
Wait, do they have to be American, or just a villain to America?
Joseph McCarthy.
Lee Harvey Oswald.
Al Davis.
Richard Nixon.
Dante84
08-31-2009, 05:26 PM
John Wilkes Booth
Yup. I was going to post a serious one, too. And he was my choice.
Donger
08-31-2009, 05:26 PM
Benedict Arnold.
Donger
08-31-2009, 05:27 PM
Maybe FDR.
Dante84
08-31-2009, 05:27 PM
Maybe FDR.
Take it back!
Rain Man
08-31-2009, 05:28 PM
Wait, do they have to be American, or just a villain to America?
Good question. After deliberation with the selection committee, it has to be an American citizen. Otherwise, we'd just end up with the same ol' Hitler, Pol Pot, french people list.
Also, does it have to be a person?
Are Swine Flu / West Nile Virus / Poverty / Hunger / Racism acceptable answers?
Good question. After deliberation with the selection committee, it has to be an American citizen. Otherwise, we'd just end up with the same ol' Hitler, Pol Pot, french people list.
Also, does it have to be a person?
Are Swine Flu / West Nile Virus / Poverty / Hunger / Racism acceptable answers?
Well I guess that answers that.
Hammock Parties
08-31-2009, 05:29 PM
Dubya. I think he will be hated for a long time.
Marcellus
08-31-2009, 05:30 PM
Jeffrey Dahmer
Mojo Jojo
08-31-2009, 05:31 PM
Benedict Arnold.
Great General....What happens to the Revolution without his work/leadership at
Ticonderoga and Saratoga. We lose.
Geese one little act of treason and the dude gets no credit.
Donger
08-31-2009, 05:32 PM
Great General....What happens to the Revolution without his work/leadership at
Ticonderoga and Saratoga. We lose.
Geese one little act of treason and the dude gets no credit.
Yeah, it's funny how that works, isn't it?
Mojo Jojo
08-31-2009, 05:33 PM
Good question. After deliberation with the selection committee, it has to be an American citizen. Otherwise, we'd just end up with the same ol' Hitler, Pol Pot, french people list.
So Benedict Arnold is out? No US no US citizen.
Rain Man
08-31-2009, 05:34 PM
So Benedict Arnold is out? No US no US citizen.
We'll have an exception for people living on the American continent prior to 1783 in areas that would eventually become U.S. territory.
Coach
08-31-2009, 05:34 PM
BTK
Mojo Jojo
08-31-2009, 05:34 PM
Dubya. I think he will be hated for a long time.
How about Clay???? (Just kidding) Or better yet Nick Athan (not kidding)
The Franchise
08-31-2009, 05:35 PM
Timothy McVeigh
John Wilkes Booth
Lee Harvey Oswald.
Jeffrey Dahmer
Any one of these guys.
Donger
08-31-2009, 05:36 PM
Jim Jones?
listopencil
08-31-2009, 05:39 PM
Charles Manson.
Ebolapox
08-31-2009, 05:40 PM
john wayne gacy
the green river killer (I think they eventually found out who it was)
the zodiac killer.
hell, almost any serial killer would do.
Donger
08-31-2009, 05:40 PM
What was the name of that broad who killed a bunch of people with an axe years ago? Not that I think she's in the running, mind you. I just can't remember her name. There's a kids' song about her?
Lizzie Borden?
listopencil
08-31-2009, 05:41 PM
Vanilla Ice.
TrebMaxx
08-31-2009, 05:41 PM
David Richard Berkowitz the Son of Sam.
Ebolapox
08-31-2009, 05:41 PM
Charles Manson.
hi, my name's charlie. charlie manson.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/southpark/images/6/6f/Charliemanson.JPG
TrebMaxx
08-31-2009, 05:41 PM
What was the name of that broad who killed a bunch of people with an axe years ago? Not that I think she's in the running, mind you. I just can't remember her name. There's a kids' song about her?
Lizzie Borden?
Lizzie Borden I do believe.
Ebolapox
08-31-2009, 05:42 PM
What was the name of that broad who killed a bunch of people with an axe years ago? Not that I think she's in the running, mind you. I just can't remember her name. There's a kids' song about her?
Lizzie Borden?
yep, lizzie borden is the name of that particular piece of fluff.
What was the name of that broad who killed a bunch of people with an axe years ago? Not that I think she's in the running, mind you. I just can't remember her name. There's a kids' song about her?
Lizzie Borden?
I think its Mary Faye Tucker
only reason I remember because somebody on the radio back then accidentally said Mary Taye Fucker.
Edit: Per google "Karla Faye Tucker"
listopencil
08-31-2009, 05:42 PM
The Unabomber.
Dante84
08-31-2009, 05:43 PM
:deevee:
Adept Havelock
08-31-2009, 05:43 PM
Joseph McCarthy.
Good suggestion. :thumb:
CoMoChief
08-31-2009, 05:43 PM
Carrot Top and Pauly Shore
and yes........I'm being serious.
DJ's left nut
08-31-2009, 05:44 PM
Andrea Yates is a pretty heinous bitch. Drowing 5 kids in a bathtub earns you a special place in hell, IMO.
bevischief
08-31-2009, 05:45 PM
Herm Edwards the destroyer of football teams.
Mojo Jojo
08-31-2009, 05:45 PM
What was the name of that broad who killed a bunch of people with an axe years ago? Not that I think she's in the running, mind you. I just can't remember her name. There's a kids' song about her?
Lizzie Borden?
Yes...had an axe...gave her mother 40 whacks...when she saw what she had done she gave her father 41.
First woman to use PMS as a defense and won.
listopencil
08-31-2009, 05:46 PM
yep, lizzie borden is the name of that particular piece of fluff.
she was pretty hot though
Ebolapox
08-31-2009, 05:46 PM
The Unabomber.
the uni-booboo?
http://pics.livejournal.com/kuro_risu/pic/0007f4x0/s320x240
Omar_Doom
08-31-2009, 05:47 PM
Wait, do they have to be American, or just a villain to America?
He said "American citizen" so yeah they have to be American.
I'll say Michael Bay
Reaper16
08-31-2009, 05:47 PM
Rush Limbaugh
Reaper16
08-31-2009, 05:48 PM
John Elway
Dante84
08-31-2009, 05:48 PM
The two girls' cup.
He said "American citizen" so yeah they have to be American.
I'll say Michael Bay
He didn't say that until after I asked him, but thanks for playing.
TrebMaxx
08-31-2009, 05:48 PM
EDWARD GEIN
Buffalo Bill, Psycho and Leatherface
On November 17, 1957, police in Plainfield, Wisconsin arrived at the dilapidated farmhouse of Eddie Gein, who was a suspect in the robbery of a local hardware store and disappearance of the owner, Bernice Worden. Gein had been the last customer at the hardware store and had been seen loitering around the premises.
Gein's desolate farmhouse was a study in chaos. Inside, junk and rotting garbage covered the floor and counters. It was almost impossible to walk through the rooms. The smell of filth and decomposition was overwhelming. While the local sheriff, Arthur Schley, inspected the kitchen with his flashlight, he felt something brush against his jacket.
When he looked up to see what it was he ran into, he faced a large, dangling carcass hanging upside down from the beams. The carcass had been decapitated, slit open and gutted. An ugly sight to be sure, but a familiar one in that deer-hunting part of the country, especially during deer season.
It took a few moments to sink in, but soon Schley realized that it wasn't a deer at all, it was the headless butchered body of a woman. Bernice Worden, the fifty-year-old mother of his deputy Frank Worden, had been found. While the shocked deputies searched through the rubble of Eddie Gein's existence, they realized that the horrible discoveries didn't end at Mrs. Worden's body. They had stumbled into a death farm. The funny-looking bowl was a top of a human skull. The lampshades and wastebasket were made from human skin. A ghoulish inventory began to take shape: an armchair made of human skin, female genitalia kept preserved in a shoebox, a belt made of nipples, a human head, four noses and a heart. The more they looked through the house, the more ghastly trophies they found. Finally a suit made entirely of human skin. Their heads spun as they tried to tally the number of women that may have died at Eddie's hands.
All of this bizarre handicraft made Eddie into a celebrity. Author Robert Bloch was inspired to write a story about Norman Bates, a character based on Eddie, which became the central theme of the Alfred Hitchcock's classic thriller Psycho. In 1974, the classic thriller by Tobe Hooper, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, has many Geinian touches, although there is no character that is an exact Eddie Gein model. This movie helped put "Ghastly Gein" back in the spotlight in the mid-1970's. Years later, Eddie provided inspiration for the character of another serial killer, Buffalo Bill in The Silence of the Lambs. Like Eddie, Buffalo Bill treasured women's skin and wore it like clothing in some insane transvestite ritual.
Ebolapox
08-31-2009, 05:50 PM
I'll second john elway. and he'd fucking win the poll too.
Mojo Jojo
08-31-2009, 05:51 PM
James Earl Ray
Omar_Doom
08-31-2009, 05:52 PM
He didn't say that until after I asked him, but thanks for playing.
I wasnt aware of that. My deepest apologies.:rolleyes:
"Bob" Dobbs
08-31-2009, 05:53 PM
The kicker not to be named.
I wasnt aware of that. My deepest apologies.:rolleyes:
%(/
PunkinDrublic
08-31-2009, 06:00 PM
Dubya. the guy should be rotting away in jail. Instead he's my fucking neighbor. :cuss:
Reaper16
08-31-2009, 06:02 PM
Dubya. the guy should be rotting away in jail. Instead he's my fucking neighbor. :cuss:
How close does he live to you?
Deberg_1990
08-31-2009, 06:05 PM
Barack Obama
The Zodiac
Posted via Mobile Device
Reaper16
08-31-2009, 06:07 PM
Tyler Thigpen
Pitt Gorilla
08-31-2009, 06:08 PM
Andrea Yates is a pretty heinous bitch. Drowing 5 kids in a bathtub earns you a special place in hell, IMO.I was thinking she'd be a good choice, or anyone else who hurts kids.
MoreLemonPledge
08-31-2009, 06:09 PM
You're all naming serial killers. How about somebody who actually impacted the nation? Wall Street comes to mind, not sure who's responsible for that. What about the automakers in the '70s and '80s who stopped productive research on electric cars so they'd get more oil profits, further destroying our environment? What about Bernie Madoff or bank CEOs?
Surely there are people who know their history better than me, but serial killers just don't affect that many people. What they do is heinous, but to most they're just stories and the impact isn't really felt.
Rain Man
08-31-2009, 06:09 PM
I was thinking she'd be a good choice, or anyone else who hurts kids.
She kind of took the spotlight off Susan Smith.
PunkinDrublic
08-31-2009, 06:12 PM
How close does he live to you?
I live up in Lewisville, he lives down in the Highland Park area. I actually met a bartender who ran into him and the secret service while biking one of the trails in the city. Showed me a cell phone pic he had taken with him.
CosmicPal
08-31-2009, 06:13 PM
You're all naming serial killers. How about somebody who actually impacted the nation? Wall Street comes to mind, not sure who's responsible for that. What about the automakers in the '70s and '80s who stopped productive research on electric cars so they'd get more oil profits, further destroying our environment? What about Bernie Madoff or bank CEOs?
Surely there are people who know their history better than me, but serial killers just don't affect that many people. What they do is heinous, but to most they're just stories and the impact isn't really felt.
Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. Serial killers don't affect "Americans." They only affect a very small population- mostly in the single digits.
I was thinking Madoff and/or the guy who took over Qwest- he totally phucked a lot of people over on their money.
PunkinDrublic
08-31-2009, 06:17 PM
Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. Serial killers don't affect "Americans." They only affect a very small population- mostly in the single digits.
I was thinking Madoff and/or the guy who took over Qwest- he totally phucked a lot of people over on their money.
Madoff was a POS but those people who were bilked out of there money by him were a victim of their own greed. If someone promises you those kinds of returns a red flag should go up.
DJ's left nut
08-31-2009, 06:29 PM
Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. Serial killers don't affect "Americans." They only affect a very small population- mostly in the single digits.
I was thinking Madoff and/or the guy who took over Qwest- he totally phucked a lot of people over on their money.
So raw numbers trump all?
Sorry, but this little contest includes only murderers in my mind. You kill one person in cold blood and you are beyond Bernie Madoff in terms of pure villany.
Pecuniary loss sucks, it sucks long and it sucks hard, but murder is the end all/be all of human degredation.
Thig Lyfe
08-31-2009, 06:33 PM
ANYBODY WHO DON'T STAND UP FER THE PLEDGE WOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Who ever killed Tupac!!!!
Posted via Mobile Device
SAUTO
08-31-2009, 06:40 PM
Who ever killed Tupac!!!!
Posted via Mobile Device
what no love for biggie?
what no love for biggie?
WESTSIDE!!!! LMAO.
Posted via Mobile Device
JohnnyV13
08-31-2009, 06:46 PM
Andrew Jackson.
Third Eye
08-31-2009, 06:50 PM
I forget his name, but the KC area doctor who was diluting his chemo treatments for profit definitely belongs on the list.
DJ's left nut
08-31-2009, 06:53 PM
I forget his name, but the KC area doctor who was diluting his chemo treatments for profit definitely belongs on the list.
Robert Courtney. Not a bad nomination at all...
Mojo Jojo
08-31-2009, 06:55 PM
Robert Courtney. Not a bad nomination at all...
You know you suck when they make a "Law And Order" based on your case.
DJ's left nut
08-31-2009, 06:57 PM
You know you suck when they make a "Law And Order" based on your case.
He lived down the street from my wife. We both went to HS with his daughter. It was a little surreal.
LOCOChief
08-31-2009, 07:03 PM
Harry Reid no wait Nancy Pelosi no wait the guy from the extenz commercial
CosmicPal
08-31-2009, 07:05 PM
Sorry, but this little contest includes only murderers in my mind. You kill one person in cold blood and you are beyond Bernie Madoff in terms of pure villany.
Fine. You want murderers? Here you go then: A very haunting song/video by Sufjan Stevens.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/otx49Ko3fxw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/otx49Ko3fxw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Third Eye
08-31-2009, 07:08 PM
Robert Courtney. Not a bad nomination at all...
Guys like Madoff are a dime a dozen. Sure he operated at a higher scale than most, but at the end of the day he was just a thief. What Courtney did is nearly inconceivable to me.
Saccopoo
08-31-2009, 07:11 PM
George W. Bush
Dick Cheney
Henry Ford
Robert Fulton
Eli Whitney
John D. Rockefeller
Robert Oppenheimer
Lyndon Johnson
Karl Rove
BucEyedPea
08-31-2009, 07:13 PM
Jeffrey Dahmer
Simply Red
08-31-2009, 07:16 PM
Ed Gein, Alex, OMG! who is Ed Gein?!
Actually, that's a great question.
teedubya
08-31-2009, 07:20 PM
David Rockefeller.
Simply Red
08-31-2009, 07:21 PM
http://i25.tinypic.com/zxm9up.jpg
Steve Bartman....
OMG, you guys are slipping!!
Third Eye
08-31-2009, 07:26 PM
Steve Bartman....
OMG, you guys are slipping!!
Most definitely NOT a villain to me.
Pablo
08-31-2009, 07:29 PM
Fine. You want murderers? Here you go then: A very haunting song/video by Sufjan Stevens.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/otx49Ko3fxw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/otx49Ko3fxw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
I can dig that tune. Thanks.
Most definitely NOT a villain to me.
He pissed alot of people off.......they made halloween costumes of that guy.
That's how you know you're a villain.
Third Eye
08-31-2009, 07:37 PM
.......they made halloween costumes of that guy.
Lol. I'll give you that point.
donkhater
08-31-2009, 07:38 PM
Whoever had the fantastically brilliant idea of nationalizing public education.
Screwed us over forever.
Gameover.
mdstu
08-31-2009, 07:57 PM
Whoever decided that not only was profiting from war not treasonous any more, but actually a function of our government and society.
They broke my heart.
KCUnited
08-31-2009, 08:02 PM
Fred Phelps.
Kylo Ren
08-31-2009, 08:23 PM
A Charles Manson reference in another thread got me thinking about this. Who is the greatest villain in American history, the one that will draw the most ire from any right-thinking American?
Give me some options and I'll put up a poll. Nominees can come from any category: war, politics, crime, business, finance, celebrity, sports, child care, Benetton models, comic strip artists (Bil Keane, anyone?), or others. Give me your best shot.
The rules:
1. We're talking true villainy here. Villainy where you can't really defend anything the person did at a dinner party without getting winces.
2. We're talking national scale. Remember, the kicker that shall go unnamed is a hero in Indianapolis.
3. Real life only. While many may villainize Elmer Fudd for his relentless and brazen murderous stalking of Bugs Bunny, Mr. Fudd does not actually exist, and therefore any villainous acts committed by Mr. Fudd do not exist, either.
4. The villain must be an American citizen, or if their villainy took place before 1783, a resident of the area that would eventually become the United State AND acting against the United States for villainous reasons rather than sincere loyalty to another country in conflict with nascent American liberty movements or peoples and in the absence of a history of loyalty to American causes.
Once I get 20 reasonable candidates, I'll post the poll.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:L-xMUfSLlyMBFM:http://clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/uploads/061211_obama_vlrg_3awidec.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://clutchmagonline.com/wp-content/uploads/061211_obama_vlrg_3awidec.jpg&imgrefurl=http://jurisdynamics.blogspot.com/2008_06_01_archive.html&usg=__FG2cipl__AtUNUHpKWO_V9D-5aE=&h=384&w=298&sz=13&hl=en&start=17&um=1&tbnid=L-xMUfSLlyMBFM:&tbnh=123&tbnw=95&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dobama%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7DKUS%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1)
But, he might not meet #4.
Psyko Tek
08-31-2009, 08:24 PM
Jim Jones?
the cowboys owner
he is an asshat but...
ohh the koolaid guy guyana got it
Dartgod
08-31-2009, 08:27 PM
The O'Leary's cow.
joesomebody
08-31-2009, 08:27 PM
I'm sure it's been said, but I'm tired and don't feel like reading:
Carl Peterson
boogblaster
08-31-2009, 08:52 PM
John Dillinger sure shot lots of G-men ..
Simply Red
08-31-2009, 08:55 PM
it'd really almost have to be a brutal serial-killer.
Boss Tweed.
Al Capone.
Billy The Kid.
Jesse James.
Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker.
Leona Helmsley.
CosmicPal
08-31-2009, 09:10 PM
An example of villains who prey on the elderly:
Scammers Leave 82-year-old penniless (http://www.yourwestvalley.com/news/scammers-8148-citian-span.html)
Thig Lyfe
08-31-2009, 09:10 PM
John Dillinger sure shot lots of G-men ..
Actually, he only shot one that we know of.
Thig Lyfe
08-31-2009, 09:10 PM
Here's a nomination: Thomas Edison
Chiefnj2
08-31-2009, 10:04 PM
Some nominations:
William Bryant and Francis May
Who?
William Bryant and Francis May were the owners of the Bryant and May Match Company. For quite a while, if you were a smoker you had Bryant and May matches in your pocket. Also the blood and tears of children.
Why They Were A hole Bosses:
Look, if you ever have a chance to take a job that requires you to first travel in a time machine to Victorian era England, don't do it. This is Scrooge era here, when filthy children roamed the streets, eating rats and doing adorable song and dance numbers.
So how crappy of a boss did you have to be to become the subject of huge public backlash in those days? Let's examine the Bryant and May method.
First, you hire nothing but young, teenage girls. There were plenty of them around, they had no other opportunities, and they weren't likely to beat you down with lead pipes when they got fed up with your crap. You work them 12 hours a day, and pay them in the neighborhood of four shillings a week (the equivalent of $20... in today's money).
Since forcing the workers to scrape by on quite a bit less than what it costs to buy food still wasn't keeping morale quite low enough, they imposed a series of petty fines for a long list of offenses--everything from going to the bathroom without permission, to having dirty feet. When one girl let a machine jam up rather than have it tear off her finger, she was told the machine was more important, dammit, and to never let it happen again. When another girl did get her hand mangled, she was given the boot. Can't make matches one-handed!
However, Bryant and May couldn't help but notice the other match companies were still making more money. What were they doing wrong? Clearly they weren't abusing their employees enough... was there some kind of torture device they could be using? Maybe if they just let wild badgers run loose on the production floor?
They had a better idea. They had been making their matches with the extremely flammable but otherwise safe red phosphorous. But there was this other kind, white phosphorous, that was way cheaper. And there was absolutely no downside.
Oh, except it would literally eat your face off when you handled it.
Seriously. They called the condition phossy jaw. It was caused by breathing the fumes for too long. The symptoms start with toothache, which led to swelling, abscesses and then a putrid discharge caused by your jaw bone actually rotting inside your head.
Then your jaw would actually start to glow green. It freaking glowed. The only treatment was jaw amputation, which had to be done before organ failure killed the victim.
Keep in mind, Bryant and May knew this; white phosphorous matches and the corresponding side effects had been around for decades. The girls at the factory finally went on strike, figuring horrifying deformities were the final straw. The whole "glow in the dark face-rot" won the sympathy of labor activists at the time, and the women eventually won the right to experience something less than David Cronenberg-levels of horror at their workplace.
The Bryant and May company, of course, stayed in business for decades and made its owners huge amounts of money.
Candidates #2: Max Blanck and Thomas Harris
Who?
Max Blanck and Thomas Harris were the owners and operators of the Triangle Shirtwaist Company, which made lady's blouses. Why blouses are called "shirtwaists" is lost to time, if by "time" you mean us not caring enough to go check. Did they only make the waist part of the shirt? We'll never know.
Why They Were A hole Bosses:
Blanck and Harris employed an almost entirely female workforce for the same reasons as Bryant and May: young, many of them immigrants, all with nowhere else to go. They paid six or seven dollars a week (again, crap money even in 1909) and when workers walked out demanding better conditions, the pair hired thugs to beat the crap out of them. When the garment workers' union finally came to an agreement with other manufacturers, Blanck and Harris said hell no.
On top of all this, it seems like a minor thing that they also locked one of the main factory exits from the outside, to supposedly prevent theft by employees. Minor, you know, unless there's a fire. But why would there be a fire in a factory full of machines, strips of dry cloth, tissue paper and smokers? Where there had been fires twice before?
On March 25, 1911, the inevitable happened. Some women made it out before one exit filled with smoke and flame. Others made it onto the fire escape, which collapsed. The rest were trapped inside, banging on that locked door, while they were cooked alive.
All told 146 people died, the worst fire in New York history (a record that would stand all the way until 9/11).
Blanck and Harris were charged with manslaughter. Luckily for them they had way more money than the plaintiffs, and they hired Max Steuer, the Johnny Cochran of his day. He tore apart the testimony of the survivors, hinting that the whole thing was a conspiracy by the evil labor unions, and that no one could prove the door was actually locked. Sure, they found the lock in the burned out rubble, still very much in its locked state. But couldn't it have been tampered with? By the unions
Blanck and Harris got off. But Blanck was arrested two years later for--get this-- locking his freaking workers inside another factory. Holy crap!
They had his butt now! Justice would be served! Oh, wait, no. He was fined $20.
But wait! Twenty-three families did successfully sue over the Triangle fire and won... $75 each. So, that's sort of justice, right? That's almost 2,000 bucks right there?
Wait, did we mention that Blanck and Harris filed a claim with their insurance after the fire? And got $60,000?
Simply Red
08-31-2009, 10:08 PM
Some nominations:
William Bryant and Francis May
Who?
William Bryant and Francis May were the owners of the Bryant and May Match Company. For quite a while, if you were a smoker you had Bryant and May matches in your pocket. Also the blood and tears of children.
Why They Were A hole Bosses:
Look, if you ever have a chance to take a job that requires you to first travel in a time machine to Victorian era England, don't do it. This is Scrooge era here, when filthy children roamed the streets, eating rats and doing adorable song and dance numbers.
So how crappy of a boss did you have to be to become the subject of huge public backlash in those days? Let's examine the Bryant and May method.
First, you hire nothing but young, teenage girls. There were plenty of them around, they had no other opportunities, and they weren't likely to beat you down with lead pipes when they got fed up with your crap. You work them 12 hours a day, and pay them in the neighborhood of four shillings a week (the equivalent of $20... in today's money).
Since forcing the workers to scrape by on quite a bit less than what it costs to buy food still wasn't keeping morale quite low enough, they imposed a series of petty fines for a long list of offenses--everything from going to the bathroom without permission, to having dirty feet. When one girl let a machine jam up rather than have it tear off her finger, she was told the machine was more important, dammit, and to never let it happen again. When another girl did get her hand mangled, she was given the boot. Can't make matches one-handed!
However, Bryant and May couldn't help but notice the other match companies were still making more money. What were they doing wrong? Clearly they weren't abusing their employees enough... was there some kind of torture device they could be using? Maybe if they just let wild badgers run loose on the production floor?
They had a better idea. They had been making their matches with the extremely flammable but otherwise safe red phosphorous. But there was this other kind, white phosphorous, that was way cheaper. And there was absolutely no downside.
Oh, except it would literally eat your face off when you handled it.
Seriously. They called the condition phossy jaw. It was caused by breathing the fumes for too long. The symptoms start with toothache, which led to swelling, abscesses and then a putrid discharge caused by your jaw bone actually rotting inside your head.
Then your jaw would actually start to glow green. It freaking glowed. The only treatment was jaw amputation, which had to be done before organ failure killed the victim.
Keep in mind, Bryant and May knew this; white phosphorous matches and the corresponding side effects had been around for decades. The girls at the factory finally went on strike, figuring horrifying deformities were the final straw. The whole "glow in the dark face-rot" won the sympathy of labor activists at the time, and the women eventually won the right to experience something less than David Cronenberg-levels of horror at their workplace.
The Bryant and May company, of course, stayed in business for decades and made its owners huge amounts of money.
Candidates #2: Max Blanck and Thomas Harris
Who?
Max Blanck and Thomas Harris were the owners and operators of the Triangle Shirtwaist Company, which made lady's blouses. Why blouses are called "shirtwaists" is lost to time, if by "time" you mean us not caring enough to go check. Did they only make the waist part of the shirt? We'll never know.
Why They Were A hole Bosses:
Blanck and Harris employed an almost entirely female workforce for the same reasons as Bryant and May: young, many of them immigrants, all with nowhere else to go. They paid six or seven dollars a week (again, crap money even in 1909) and when workers walked out demanding better conditions, the pair hired thugs to beat the crap out of them. When the garment workers' union finally came to an agreement with other manufacturers, Blanck and Harris said hell no.
On top of all this, it seems like a minor thing that they also locked one of the main factory exits from the outside, to supposedly prevent theft by employees. Minor, you know, unless there's a fire. But why would there be a fire in a factory full of machines, strips of dry cloth, tissue paper and smokers? Where there had been fires twice before?
On March 25, 1911, the inevitable happened. Some women made it out before one exit filled with smoke and flame. Others made it onto the fire escape, which collapsed. The rest were trapped inside, banging on that locked door, while they were cooked alive.
All told 146 people died, the worst fire in New York history (a record that would stand all the way until 9/11).
Blanck and Harris were charged with manslaughter. Luckily for them they had way more money than the plaintiffs, and they hired Max Steuer, the Johnny Cochran of his day. He tore apart the testimony of the survivors, hinting that the whole thing was a conspiracy by the evil labor unions, and that no one could prove the door was actually locked. Sure, they found the lock in the burned out rubble, still very much in its locked state. But couldn't it have been tampered with? By the unions
Blanck and Harris got off. But Blanck was arrested two years later for--get this-- locking his freaking workers inside another factory. Holy crap!
They had his butt now! Justice would be served! Oh, wait, no. He was fined $20.
But wait! Twenty-three families did successfully sue over the Triangle fire and won... $75 each. So, that's sort of justice, right? That's almost 2,000 bucks right there?
Wait, did we mention that Blanck and Harris filed a claim with their insurance after the fire? And got $60,000?
I refuse to read that, can you pls just tell me?
+1 for John Wilkes Booth.
Simply Red
08-31-2009, 10:29 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh
BigChiefFan
08-31-2009, 10:30 PM
Al Capone?
Simply Red
08-31-2009, 10:32 PM
Al Capone?
actually, that's a good one, no doubt.
Portlantis
08-31-2009, 10:39 PM
I don't think this passes rule no. 1. But then, I don't really like rule no. 1. I've always preferred complex and sympathetic villains over one-dimensional, outright monsters.
So I'm going to go with Robert E. Lee, someone who wasn't a bad man, and by all accounts was only acting out of a sense of loyalty and duty to his home. Nevertheless, he was most powerful figure in the Confederacy, which was the greatest threat this nation has ever faced outside of Britain and Nazi Germany.
You could also make an argument for Jefferson Davis, but I don't think he defined the Confederacy like Lee did.
chiefsfanintx
08-31-2009, 10:52 PM
Mark Chapman
Dave Lane
08-31-2009, 10:52 PM
Dick Cheney
/thread
I don't think this passes rule no. 1. But then, I don't really like rule no. 1. I've always preferred complex and sympathetic villains over one-dimensional, outright monsters.
So I'm going to go with Robert E. Lee, someone who wasn't a bad man, and by all accounts was only acting out of a sense of loyalty and duty to his home. Nevertheless, he was most powerful figure in the Confederacy, which was the greatest threat this nation has ever faced outside of Britain and Nazi Germany.
You could also make an argument for Jefferson Davis, but I don't think he defined the Confederacy like Lee did.
It also is in violation of Rules #2 and #4. FAIL.
Portlantis
08-31-2009, 11:03 PM
It also is in violation of Rules #2 and #4. FAIL.
Okay. How can you argue that the Civil War did not occur on a national scale?
Also, Robert E. Lee was born and died an American. Therefore, I don't see how he violates rule number four at all.
Okay. How can you argue that the Civil War did not occur on a national scale?
Also, Robert E. Lee was born and died an American. Therefore, I don't see how he violates rule number four at all.
It did occur on a national scale, but the "villian" of the North was pretty clearly the hero of the South. I re-read #4 and you are correct, he actually does pass that one since it specifies being against the "United States".
So your choice only breaks two rules. Although one would have been enough to disqualify.
Rain Man
08-31-2009, 11:29 PM
The nominations I'm accepting so far are:
O.J. Simpson
Bernie Madoff
Timothy McVeigh
Ted Bundy
John Wilkes Booth
The BTK Killer
Benedict Arnold
Jeffrey Dahmer
Andrea Yates
Joseph McCarthy
The Unabomber
Karla Faye Tucker
Lizzie Borden
Charles Manson
David Berkowitz (Son of Sam)
John Wayne Gacy
The Zodiac Killer
The Green River Killer
Jim Jones
James Earl Ray
Ed Gein
Robert Courtney
Boss Tweed
Al Capone
Billy The Kid
Jesse James
Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker
Leona Helmsley
John Dillinger
Fred Phelps
Robert E. Lee
Mark Chapman
Al Capone
David Koresh
Bryant and May
Blanck and Harris
I'll also add:
Lee Harvey Oswald
Julius and Ethel Rosenburg
Nathan Bedford Forrest
Robert Hanssen
Aldrich Ames
John Walker
Kenneth Lay
Bernie Ebbers
Joseph Hazelwood
Anyone got others to add? Or did I miss any realistic options offered earlier?
I'd like to make a late case for removing Benedict Arnold from the list. And yes, I would do this at a dinner party. He was a very effective leader in the Revolutionary War. The hero of Saratoga. The victory at Saratoga is what convinced the French that the war was winnable, and therefore caused them to come in on our side.
It's conceivable we could have lost the war without Arnold. There is no way that his failed plot to surrender West Point harmed us in any significant way. While he was an effective general, Benedict Arnold was a completely incompetent traitor.
There. I did it. He fails Rule #1.
Also - Arnold's primary beef was frustration with his leadership not recognizing him and promoting him accordingly. He was kind of the "Jay Cutler" of Revolutionary War generals. His anger caused schisms in his allegiance between the colonies and Britain, which legitimately calls into question Rule #4.
teedubya
09-01-2009, 12:41 AM
David Rockefeller is an unknown villain. He is truly treacherous.
David Rockefeller is an unknown villain. He is truly treacherous.
:rolleyes:
big nasty kcnut
09-01-2009, 02:30 AM
The rosenbergs who gave russia our atomic bomb secrets
Rausch
09-01-2009, 02:41 AM
John Elway...
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 04:37 AM
Harry J. Anslinger. Should have Tommy-gunned that motherfucker in to the dirt.
Abba-Dabba
09-01-2009, 05:10 AM
Henry Lee Lucas for the killer nomination, Aldrich Ames for the political nomination.
Amnorix
09-01-2009, 05:55 AM
We'll have an exception for people living on the American continent prior to 1783 in areas that would eventually become U.S. territory.
Welll....what kind of evidentiary proof do we need? Short or long form birth certificate, and must it be an original or will a copy suffice?
:p
Amnorix
09-01-2009, 05:58 AM
George W. Bush
Dick Cheney
Henry Ford
Robert Fulton
Eli Whitney
John D. Rockefeller
Robert Oppenheimer
Lyndon Johnson
Karl Rove
Not that I agree with any of these choices, but there is some pretty clever thinking behind some of them.
Jenson71
09-01-2009, 06:02 AM
John Wilkes Booth. No contest.
Amnorix
09-01-2009, 06:13 AM
There have been some very good choices proposed so far, obviously. I'd have to go with Al Capone out of the ones I've seen, as the person who caused the most economic AND personal devastation.
Lucky Luciano, Carlo Gambino and Anthony Accardo, probably in that order, would be right up therew with Capone. If you ascribe the acts of their entire empires to them, then the amount of murder and misery they caused would far exceed what a Ted Bundy or any other single person could really do in one lifetime, though the individual acts would be "more evil" in the case of a Bundy or Dahmer. More sadistic at least.
And while those guys were a hero to a very small segment of society, I trust it's still in line with Rule #2.
BY1401
09-01-2009, 06:43 AM
Aaron Burr
Lorena Bobbit
Bill Belichick
Ponder
09-01-2009, 06:45 AM
The guy who laced the TYlenol capsules with cyanide. Every time you have to go to extreme measures to tear into a pill bottle, a bottle of water or a package of candy, you have him to thank. Not a real nomination, since they never caught him, but I've always thought he was one of the most influential people in the world.
Red Beans
09-01-2009, 06:52 AM
Jason Whitlock...his writing is criminal.
Inspector
09-01-2009, 07:01 AM
Elmer Fudd.
(I'm lousy with directions BTW)
Kylo Ren
09-01-2009, 07:49 AM
The nominations I'm accepting so far are:
O.J. Simpson
Bernie Madoff
Timothy McVeigh
Ted Bundy
John Wilkes Booth
The BTK Killer
Benedict Arnold
Jeffrey Dahmer
Andrea Yates
Joseph McCarthy
The Unabomber
Karla Faye Tucker
Lizzie Borden
Charles Manson
David Berkowitz (Son of Sam)
John Wayne Gacy
The Zodiac Killer
The Green River Killer
Jim Jones
James Earl Ray
Ed Gein
Robert Courtney
Boss Tweed
Al Capone
Billy The Kid
Jesse James
Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker
Leona Helmsley
John Dillinger
Fred Phelps
Robert E. Lee
Mark Chapman
Al Capone
David Koresh
Bryant and May
Blanck and Harris
I'll also add:
Lee Harvey Oswald
Julius and Ethel Rosenburg
Nathan Bedford Forrest
Robert Hanssen
Aldrich Ames
John Walker
Kenneth Lay
Bernie Ebbers
Joseph Hazelwood
Anyone got others to add? Or did I miss any realistic options offered earlier?
Barack freaking Obama! Put him on the list!
MOhillbilly
09-01-2009, 07:51 AM
True evil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottis_Toole
MOhillbilly
09-01-2009, 07:57 AM
fuck that Robert E. Lee shit. Might as well put Sherman on the list. Fuckin yanks.
Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 07:59 AM
Ray Kroc
MOhillbilly
09-01-2009, 08:07 AM
John Brown.
Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 08:10 AM
christopher columbus
Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 08:11 AM
pauly shore
whoman69
09-01-2009, 08:18 AM
I'll get some google searches going:
Leon Czolgosz
Charles J. Guiteau
Crush
09-01-2009, 08:46 AM
Wayne Bent
Marshall Applewhite
Jim Jones
David Koresh
CosmicPal
09-01-2009, 08:50 AM
Did anyone say Hitler?
Not an American
CosmicPal
09-01-2009, 08:50 AM
christopher columbus
Not an American
Frazod
09-01-2009, 08:54 AM
Benedict Arnold.
Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 09:07 AM
mussilini
Rasputin
09-01-2009, 09:07 AM
Al Capone
Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 09:07 AM
Hitler
Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 09:07 AM
Phil Collins
Kylo Ren
09-01-2009, 09:07 AM
The list will be incomplete without Barack Obama. I'm seriouis.
Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 09:08 AM
Ivan lendel
Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 09:08 AM
The Clash - london calling
Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 09:09 AM
Bel Biv Devoe
Lumpy
09-01-2009, 09:09 AM
Phil Collins
:deevee:
Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 09:10 AM
Pele
Gonzo
09-01-2009, 09:12 AM
:deevee:
Do you like Phil Collins? I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Christy, take off your robe. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. Sabrina, remove your dress. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Sabrina, why don't you, uh, dance a little. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I've heard in rock. Christy, get down on your knees so Sabrina can see your asshole. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and Against All Odds. Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite.
Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 09:13 AM
Genisis was a good gaming console. Sonic the hedgehog
stevieray
09-01-2009, 09:14 AM
Kathy Bates
"Mr Man"
Frazod
09-01-2009, 09:16 AM
Al Capone
For all the evil that he did, Capone also sponsored soup kitchens that kept thousands of Chicagoans fed during the early years of the Depression. Obviously this was self-serving, as Capone did all he could to sell himself to the press as a good guy, but there is no denying that he helped many people who might otherwise have starved.
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 09:18 AM
Phil Collins
LMAO
Do you like Phil Collins? I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Christy, take off your robe. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. Sabrina, remove your dress. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Sabrina, why don't you, uh, dance a little. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I've heard in rock. Christy, get down on your knees so Sabrina can see your asshole. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and Against All Odds. Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite.
LMAOLMAOLMAO
We got REP!
big nasty kcnut
09-01-2009, 09:18 AM
brigham young why him? Easy he ordered his followers to kill a group of settlers. Forgot the name of the attack. The sttlers were killed and the childrens froced to live with mormans family.
Rasputin
09-01-2009, 09:19 AM
Al Capone was the greatest gangster in American history
Amnorix
09-01-2009, 09:20 AM
For all the evil that he did, Capone also sponsored soup kitchens that kept thousands of Chicagoans fed during the early years of the Depression. Obviously this was self-serving, as Capone did all he could to sell himself to the press as a good guy, but there is no denying that he helped many people who might otherwise have starved.
*shrug* His secretaries say Adolf Hitler was very kind. He had some took good care of his dogs too.
BFD.
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 09:21 AM
J. Edgar Hoover and Joseph McCarthy; two un-American swine who failed to meet the stray bullet they so desperately deserved.
Amnorix
09-01-2009, 09:21 AM
The list will be incomplete without Barack Obama. I'm seriouis.
:rolleyes:
Amnorix
09-01-2009, 09:23 AM
J. Edgar Hoover and Joseph McCarthy; two un-American swine who failed to meet the stray bullet they so desperately deserved.
I thought about mentioning Hoover, but decided that I didn't really want to go down that road. He wasnt' without redeeming qualities, however, which took him off my list.
McCarthy was a scumbag, but I don't think his notable achievements reach the level of epic villiany.
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 09:23 AM
*shrug* His secretaries say Adolf Hitler was very kind. He had some took good care of his dogs too.
BFD.
Yeah, but Eva used to kick Blondi when Adolf wasn't looking, so it becomes a neutral.
Dayze
09-01-2009, 09:24 AM
Ted Kaczynski? (Unabomber)?
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 09:26 AM
I thought about mentioning Hoover, but decided that I didn't really want to go down that road. He wasnt' without redeeming qualities, however, which took him off my list.
McCarthy was a scumbag, but I don't think his notable achievements reach the level of epic villiany.
All authoritarians, whether just or parading as such, need to be taken down a notch if not outright killed in most cases.
And yeah, I'm standing by it fuckers; take your best shot.
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 09:29 AM
brigham young why him? Easy he ordered his followers to kill a group of settlers. Forgot the name of the attack. The sttlers were killed and the childrens froced to live with mormans family.
Wherever that guy went, he got run off. Tarred and feathered in Ohio, and when they tried to settle in Missouri, the legislature put a law on the books that remained until the late 70's stating that a citizen of the State could shoot a Mormon on sight.
Nightfyre
09-01-2009, 09:36 AM
Either jefferson davis or abraham lincoln. Or both. Probably both.
Posted via Mobile Device
blaise
09-01-2009, 09:37 AM
Barry Bonds
Frazod
09-01-2009, 09:43 AM
*shrug* His secretaries say Adolf Hitler was very kind. He had some took good care of his dogs too.
BFD.
You really equate "took good care of his dogs" with keeping thousands of Americans from starving? Nice.
Here's another nomination for greatest American villain - Andrew Volstead.
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 09:48 AM
You really equate "took good care of his dogs" with keeping thousands of Americans from starving? Nice.
Here's another nomination for greatest American villain - Andrew Volstead.
Yep, that's a good one.
patteeu
09-01-2009, 09:54 AM
I assume Obama has already been mentioned so, having grown up in Jesse James country, I'll go with the coward Bob Ford.
Repost?
patteeu
09-01-2009, 10:08 AM
One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. With apologies to oldandslow, I nominate Sitting Bull.
George Steinbrenner and Bobby The Brain Heenan.
Amnorix
09-01-2009, 10:13 AM
You really equate "took good care of his dogs" with keeping thousands of Americans from starving? Nice.
What would your position on Bernie Madoff be if we addedt hat he killed a couple hundred people, but on the other side of the ledger he gave to some soup kitchens?
Seriously -- you're talking about an evil mass-murdering f**khead who stole, in various ways, the equivalent of billions of dollars in today's money.
Amnorix
09-01-2009, 10:15 AM
He gave SOUP to the POOR!! Hooray for him. :rolleyes:
http://www.paranormalknowledge.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/valentines-day-massacre.jpg
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 10:16 AM
One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. With apologies to oldandslow, I nominate Sitting Bull.
Yep, how dare that sonofabitch defend his home.
MOhillbilly
09-01-2009, 10:18 AM
wayne pacelle, ingrid newkirk
Rain Man
09-01-2009, 10:20 AM
One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. With apologies to oldandslow, I nominate Sitting Bull.
oldandslow's not gonna like that.
patteeu
09-01-2009, 10:25 AM
oldandslow's not gonna like that.
I bet he'll be disappointed when he sees my clean shaved head.
Frazod
09-01-2009, 10:26 AM
What would your position on Bernie Madoff be if we addedt hat he killed a couple hundred people, but on the other side of the ledger he gave to some soup kitchens?
Seriously -- you're talking about an evil mass-murdering f**khead who stole, in various ways, the equivalent of billions of dollars in today's money.
You didn't compare him to Bernie Madoff - you compared him to Adolph Hitler. Frankly, that's retarded.
I never said Capone was heroic. But very few people are either (a) completely good, or (b) completely evil. It is very likely that Capone helped far more people than he ever hurt. And had it not been for prohibition, Capone would never have enjoyed the power and prestige that he amassed. The mob simply responded to the will of the people. Our own stupid government is just as responsible for every criminal act that happened regarding bootlegging as Capone was.
Simply Red
09-01-2009, 10:26 AM
Do you like Phil Collins? I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Christy, take off your robe. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of Banks, Collins and Rutherford. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. Sabrina, remove your dress. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Sabrina, why don't you, uh, dance a little. Take the lyrics to Land of Confusion. In this song, Phil Collins addresses the problems of abusive political authority. In Too Deep is the most moving pop song of the 1980s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I've heard in rock. Christy, get down on your knees so Sabrina can see your asshole. Phil Collins' solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like In the Air Tonight and Against All Odds. Sabrina, don't just stare at it, eat it. But I also think Phil Collins works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Sussudio, a great, great song, a personal favorite.
Did you know I bought a Dorsia tshirt, http://www.cafepress.com/boldstripeshirt.208374278 huh? Did you know that, Gonzo?
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 10:26 AM
wayne pacelle, ingrid newkirk
Uh, British.
And PETA can suck ballz, but there's nothing wrong with the Humane Society.
Frazod
09-01-2009, 10:27 AM
He gave SOUP to the POOR!! Hooray for him. :rolleyes:
http://www.paranormalknowledge.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/valentines-day-massacre.jpg
Yeah, those poor Irish altar boys, they never did nothin' to nobody. :whackit:
It must be nice to get all of your history lessons from bumper stickers. Much easier to understand that way.
Coach
09-01-2009, 10:29 AM
FEMA
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 10:29 AM
Yeah, those poor Irish altar boys, they never did nothin' to nobody. :whackit:
It must be nice to get all of your history lessons from bumper stickers. Much easier to understand that way.
:LOL:
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 10:30 AM
FEMA
Fuckin'-A. Rep.
I'll add State Farm and Allstate to that mix.
Swanman
09-01-2009, 10:30 AM
I know it's the "easy" pick, but I'll throw my vote in there for Charlie Manson. When you look at villains, one thing to look at is their motives. Manson's motive for the whole helter skelter craziness was to rule the farking world. He was like every movie villain in that sense which made his story even more unbelievable.
Basically he wanted his killings to appear like they were done by Black Panthers, thus igniting a race war that in his opinion black people would win because they had been repressed for so long. However, he thought they were too dumb to lead themselves so he would come out of hiding and be their leader. Now he has obvious gaping holes in his theory as there are more than just whites and blacks in the world, but you have to give him an A+ for ambition and scope.
Also, he hopelessly brainwashed his people into little more than robots to do his bidding. Koresh and other cult leaders, except maybe Jim Jones, didn't get anywhere near his level of brainwashing. And one of his minions had a presidiential assassination attempt, so at least they were shooting for the stars.
And he gave us the great "pile bodies to the sky" quote. Well done, you crazy fugger.
MOhillbilly
09-01-2009, 11:08 AM
Uh, British.
And PETA can suck ballz, but there's nothing wrong with the Humane Society.
one in the same.
Thig Lyfe
09-01-2009, 11:10 AM
The list will be incomplete without Barack Obama. I'm seriouis.
Not an American.
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 11:12 AM
one in the same.
Humane Society runs shelters and euthanizes animals; how can that be "one in the same"?
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 11:13 AM
Not an American.
LMAO
MOhillbilly
09-01-2009, 11:13 AM
Humane Society runs shelters and euthanizes animals?
no they dont. your local HS runs 'shelters' the HSUS donates zero dollars to your local shelter.
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 11:15 AM
no they dont. your local HS runs 'shelters' the HSUS donates zero dollars to your local shelter.
Okay....well I'm bored with this topic anyway; you win.
DJJasonp
09-01-2009, 11:19 AM
When I think "villian"....I dont necessarily think of "killer" per se.....I think of people who are as close to universally hated as possible....so with that in mind:
George Steinbrenner
Nikolai Volkov and the Iron Sheik
Shanon Sharpe
Al Capone
Depending on one's POV - Jack Kevorkian.
Lumpy
09-01-2009, 11:33 AM
Vernon Wayne Howell, (aka David Koresh)
Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 11:35 AM
Getty lee
Stewie
09-01-2009, 11:37 AM
http://pbskids.kids.us/images/sub-square-barney.gif
Amnorix
09-01-2009, 11:37 AM
Yeah, those poor Irish altar boys, they never did nothin' to nobody. :whackit:
It must be nice to get all of your history lessons from bumper stickers. Much easier to understand that way.
Please, I know who the victims are.
You're going pretty far out of your way here to defend a mafia don...
stumppy
09-01-2009, 11:40 AM
ME.
If you people only knew.
ClevelandBronco
09-01-2009, 11:42 AM
Charles Manson.
JohninGpt
09-01-2009, 11:44 AM
William Bonney
Demonpenz
09-01-2009, 11:44 AM
Better than Ezra
BucEyedPea
09-01-2009, 11:45 AM
Two words...O. J.
You mean two letters? :D
Two words...O. J.
Mojo Jojo has an obvious fascination with the letters O and J.
ClevelandBronco
09-01-2009, 11:51 AM
Julius and Ethel Rosenburg
If you're including them both, then you'd better add Roy Coen.
ClevelandBronco
09-01-2009, 11:52 AM
ME.
If you people only knew.
I'm wanted for manslaughter in Joplin, Missouri. Just saying.
ClevelandBronco
09-01-2009, 11:55 AM
Robert E. Lee?
Please.
BY1401
09-01-2009, 12:01 PM
Chris Collinsworth
JohninGpt
09-01-2009, 12:12 PM
Henri Wirz
blaise
09-01-2009, 12:14 PM
The Greatest American Hero is the Greatest American Villain.
Mojo Jojo
09-01-2009, 12:17 PM
I may have missed it, but I'm surprised no one has listed Sirhan Sirhan. He was a game changer. Without him RFK probably defeats Nixon. Without Nixon...
-The Watergate is just another Hotel/Apartment Complex in D.C.
-No one knows who Woodward and Bernstein are.
-Deep Throat is just a movie.
-G. Gordon Liddy is not selling gold on cable TV.
alanm
09-01-2009, 12:18 PM
Barack ObamaWinner.
Frazod
09-01-2009, 12:18 PM
Please, I know who the victims are.
You're going pretty far out of your way here to defend a mafia don...
I'm not defending him so much as pointing out that your knowledge and understanding of history are simplistic at best and imbecilic at worst.
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 12:21 PM
You can't call TJ a villian, but I sure wish Ben Franklin would have whipped his ass a few times to temper his lust for commercial expansion.
MOhillbilly
09-01-2009, 12:30 PM
wes hardin
ClevelandBronco
09-01-2009, 12:32 PM
I may have missed it, but I'm surprised no one has listed Sirhan Sirhan...
Was Sirhan an American? I thought he was Jordanian.
I haven't looked it up though.
EDIT: My bad. He was Palestinian.
Frazod
09-01-2009, 12:33 PM
wes hardin
He was an amazing guy - probably the most skilled gunman of the era.
gblowfish
09-01-2009, 12:38 PM
Greatest AMERICAN villans?
Depends on your point of view, but you can make a case for these "villans" affecting the greatest number of Americans with their actions:
Andrew Jackson (ask the Native Americans)
Gen. WT Sherman (ask the South)
Capt. W Quantrill (ask Kansas)
Gen. T Ewing (Ask Missouri)
John Rockefeller (reason for anti-trust legislation)
FDR (ask Japanese Americans)
Joseph McCarthy (red scare in the 50's)
LBJ (ask a Vietnam Vet)
Nixon (ask a Vietnam War Protester)
Dubya (Where's the WMD's?)
ClevelandBronco
09-01-2009, 12:42 PM
"I sincerely believe that if Robert Kennedy were alive today, I believe he would not countenance singling me out for this kind of treatment. I think he would be among the first to say that, however horrible the deed I committed 14 years ago was, that it should not be the cause for denying me equal treatment under the laws of this country."
— Sirhan Bishara Sirhan
------
Sure.
Nightfyre
09-01-2009, 12:42 PM
I still think the civil war divided 2 ways resulted in the most loss of life that can be contributed to one person in american history.
Posted via Mobile Device
ClevelandBronco
09-01-2009, 12:45 PM
I still think the civil war divided 2 ways resulted in the most loss of life that can be contributed to one person in american history.
Posted via Mobile Device
Which one person? The idiot that decided that it would be a good idea to fire on Fort Sumter?
Posted via Stationary Device
Quiet Storm
09-01-2009, 12:48 PM
LBJ and J Edgar Hoover are people who immediately pop in my head.
Nightfyre
09-01-2009, 12:55 PM
Which one person? The idiot that decided that it would be a good idea to fire on Fort Sumter?
Posted via Stationary Device
No, I put the blame on jefferson davis and abraham lincoln both, thus dividing the total civil war casualties both ways making them co-villains.
Another person you could make a case for is truman.
Posted via Mobile Device
Chief Faithful
09-01-2009, 12:58 PM
Chan Gailey
Frazod
09-01-2009, 01:00 PM
Which one person? The idiot that decided that it would be a good idea to fire on Fort Sumter?
Posted via Stationary Device
So you're saying that Beauregard should have just allowed a foreign power to maintain a military base right in the middle of a key harbor?
Another person you could make a case for is truman.
Posted via Mobile Device:spock:
Please, I just have to hear this.:rolleyes:
MOhillbilly
09-01-2009, 01:06 PM
He was an amazing guy - probably the most skilled gunman of the era.
hmmmm i always considered wes hardin more of a cold blooded murderer & wild bill more the iconic shootist.
Braincase
09-01-2009, 01:12 PM
Disney
Quiet Storm
09-01-2009, 01:13 PM
oh yea, I forgot, Leo Strauss.
Frazod
09-01-2009, 01:15 PM
hmmmm i always considered wes hardin more of a cold blooded murderer & wild bill more the iconic shootist.
Hardin was pretty much unequalled in his prowess with a pistol. Even in later life he was still capable of pulling off amazing trick shots. Hickok himself was reluctant to challenge him.
But yes, he was definitely a cold blooded killer.
Nightfyre
09-01-2009, 01:17 PM
:spock:
Please, I just have to hear this.:rolleyes:
Well, people are quantifying evil in terms of lives taken. Truman, through the use of nuclear weapons took in excess of 200,000 lives, the majority of which were civilian. However, you could qualify that by saying japanese civilians were warriors and that ultimately it saved nearly as many american lives simply through the use of the bomb. I'm just running with the standards of the board here though.
Posted via Mobile Device
Well, people are quantifying evil in terms of lives taken. Truman, through the use of nuclear weapons took in excess of 200,000 lives, the majority of which were civilian. However, you could qualify that by saying japanese civilians were warriors and that ultimately it saved nearly as many american lives simply through the use of the bomb. I'm just running with the standards of the board here though.
Posted via Mobile Device
In that case Roosevelt took FAR more lives than Truman ever thought of. Hell throw Curtis LeMay in there also.
And in Truman's defense, he actually saved far more lives by dropping the bomb than would have been lost in continuing Fire Bombing raids & or the invasion of Japan.
crazycoffey
09-01-2009, 01:23 PM
has anyone mentioned Whitlock yet?
Nightfyre
09-01-2009, 01:27 PM
In that case Roosevelt took FAR more lives than Truman ever thought of. Hell throw Curtis LeMay in there also.
And in Truman's defense, he actually saved far more lives by dropping the bomb than would have been lost in continuing Fire Bombing raids & or the invasion of Japan.
Interesting. LeMay had the nick name "Demon LeMay" in japan. I think we have a winner!
Posted via Mobile Device
Sweet Daddy Hate
09-01-2009, 01:28 PM
hmmmm i always considered wes hardin more of a cold blooded murderer & wild bill more the iconic shootist.
Shooting a man for snoring too loud is not a crime; it's a public service.:fire:
Rain Man
09-01-2009, 01:32 PM
Anyone have thoughts about William Calley? Does he make the cut?
Amnorix
09-01-2009, 01:37 PM
I'm not defending him so much as pointing out that your knowledge and understanding of history are simplistic at best and imbecilic at worst.
:rolleyes:
Did you think that I thought the bodies in the street were a bunch of priests?
Spare me. And spare me the condescending attitude. I haven't spent my adult lifetime reading little else but history to have you sit there and act like you're some kind of Harvard history professor. You're the one defending the mass murdering criminal here, not me.
patteeu
09-01-2009, 01:40 PM
When I think "villian"....I dont necessarily think of "killer" per se.....I think of people who are as close to universally hated as possible....so with that in mind:
...
Nikolai Volkov and the Iron Sheik
Shanon Sharpe
...
Oh, good angle. How about:
Barry Manilow
Michael Bolton
Alex Rodriquez
Jeff Gordon
and especially...
Michael Jackson
MOhillbilly
09-01-2009, 01:41 PM
Hardin was pretty much unequalled in his prowess with a pistol. Even in later life he was still capable of pulling off amazing trick shots. Hickok himself was reluctant to challenge him.
But yes, he was definitely a cold blooded killer.
Ah, i remember that story. Harvey Logan is another bad mofo.
Coach
09-01-2009, 01:42 PM
Sports agents
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