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Tribal Warfare
09-17-2009, 10:24 PM
Chiefs have to prevent Raiders from converting third-down plays (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1452771.html)
By KENT BABB
The Kansas City Star

Once Monday was behind the Chiefs’ defense, players had no confusion on what their mistake was in Sunday’s 38-24 loss at Baltimore. There were film studies, meetings and coaches’ harsh criticisms — and the message kept emphasizing the same thing: Get off the field.

The Ravens converted 10 of 17 third-down plays. That led to Baltimore running almost twice as many offensive plays as the Chiefs and some late fatigue that broke down Kansas City’s unit when it needed a stop. Baltimore kept converting, and in the days since, the Chiefs have kept hearing about it.

“Those are the money downs,” strong safety Mike Brown said. “That has been harped into us this week.

“We get off the field on third down, and there’s no problems.”

Instead, the Chiefs had big problems on a day in which big plays on defense gave the team a chance to win.

Linebacker Tamba Hali sacked Joe Flacco and forced a fumble, and Derrick Johnson returned an interception 70 yards and set up a Kansas City touchdown. Instead of celebrating those plays and others like them, the Chiefs have spent this week hearing from coaches that a few impressive spurts are nice — but they cannot mask the weaknesses of an inconsistent pass rush and ineffective third-down defense.

Kansas City’s biggest problem was a familiar one: It couldn’t get to the quarterback often enough. That was a constant problem last season, when the Chiefs ended the season with 10 sacks, the worst number in NFL history for a 16-game schedule.

Last Sunday, other than Hali’s sack and forced fumble — which the Ravens recovered — the Chiefs couldn’t keep pressure on Flacco, who attempted 43 passes and was sacked once. The most devastating example came in the fourth quarter, when Kansas City sent an all-out blitz, and Flacco threw deep and found Mark Clayton for a 31-yard, go-ahead touchdown.

Exhaustion and frustration mixed, and not long after that touchdown, the Chiefs were walking again toward a losing locker room.

“One glaring stat,” Brown said, referring to Baltimore’s 59-percent conversion rate on third downs.

Chiefs coach Todd Haley said this week that the defense cannot get into similar situations Sunday against Oakland. The Raiders possess a talented quarterback, JaMarcus Russell, and three running backs that Haley has drilled his team on when he wasn’t discussing the Chiefs’ internal priorities. Oakland won’t make things easier, and Haley said Thursday that he’s not above calling for extreme measures if the pass rush cannot generate pressure on Russell or contain Oakland’s three rushers.

“You have to do anything and everything,” Haley said. “As I said way back in training camp, we’ve got to figure out ways to create pressure, and if we can do that with four guys, that’s ideal obviously. If we have to do it other ways, then we’ll have to do it other ways. But we have to create some disruption in the backfield, no matter what.”

Brown, a veteran defensive back, admitted Thursday that additional blitzes means additional pressure on the Chiefs’ secondary. That’s a mostly young unit, and it might not be full strength, either, if second-year cornerback Brandon Flowers’ injured shoulder isn’t healthy. Flowers missed the Baltimore game, and Haley hasn’t said whether Flowers will return to the lineup against Oakland.

Brandon Carr, another second-year corner, said that regardless of the defense’s personnel, there are concerns that just haven’t met coaches’ expectations.

One of those, Carr said, is the defense’s discipline.

“We’re still getting there,” Carr said.

Brown said that if the Raiders have similar success against the Chiefs on third down, it will not be because Kansas City is unprepared or that the issue hasn’t been confronted. He said he expects a better result Sunday because, if nothing else, the Chiefs learned the hard way last Sunday that third downs can sour an otherwise encouraging performance.

Instead of remembering the handful of big plays, Brown said, all anyone wants to talk about is that glaring statistic, which he said was the most glaring reason for Baltimore’s 501 yards total offense.

“I’m kind of done with that game and moving forward,” Brown said. “We’re up for the challenge.”

Ugly Duck
09-17-2009, 10:44 PM
KC should load up against the run & dare Russell to throw the ball. Our WRs are banged up.... starting rookies DHB & Murphy... & some guy named Todd Watkins. That there's a weak spot - JRuss is only familiar with Murphy's moves cuz DHB was hamstrung almost the entire preseason.

Hammock Parties
09-17-2009, 10:47 PM
KC should load up against the run & dare Russell to throw the ball. Our WRs are banged up.... starting rookies DHB & Murphy... & some guy named Todd Watkins. That there's a weak spot - JRuss is only familiar with Murphy's moves cuz DHB was hamstrung almost the entire preseason.

No Chaz or Walker this weekend?

Ugly Duck
09-17-2009, 10:49 PM
No Chaz or Walker this weekend?

So far.... no. Even Higgins might be out.

Dante84
09-17-2009, 11:24 PM
Im more worried about Zach Miller than anyone. Our LB's cant cover worth a shit.

Jethopper
09-17-2009, 11:27 PM
Ahhh water is still wet

HemiEd
09-18-2009, 01:02 AM
KC should load up against the run & dare Russell to throw the ball. Our WRs are banged up.... starting rookies DHB & Murphy... & some guy named Todd Watkins. That there's a weak spot - JRuss is only familiar with Murphy's moves cuz DHB was hamstrung almost the entire preseason.

That was their initial strategy against Baltimore, and they came out firing. The Chiefs D was openly caught by surprise.

htismaqe
09-18-2009, 07:21 AM
That was their initial strategy against Baltimore, and they came out firing. The Chiefs D was openly caught by surprise.

They were giving 10 yard cushions on the outside, BEGGING Baltimore to throw the out routes.

And Baltimore did.

The "we were caught by surprise" excuse is pathetic. I can't believe a guy like Vrabel would even say it.

Chiefnj2
09-18-2009, 07:28 AM
They were giving 10 yard cushions on the outside, BEGGING Baltimore to throw the out routes.

And Baltimore did.

The "we were caught by surprise" excuse is pathetic. I can't believe a guy like Vrabel would even say it.

KC set an NFL record for least amount of sacks last year, didn't draft or sign any free agent pass rushers, and people are surprised that Baltimore threw the ball?

MichaelH
09-18-2009, 07:49 AM
I say that every week. Maybe I should write a column.

htismaqe
09-18-2009, 07:57 AM
KC set an NFL record for least amount of sacks last year, didn't draft or sign any free agent pass rushers, and people are surprised that Baltimore threw the ball?

No kidding.

It's actually kind of sad. Everybody knows the Ravens are a running team. The Ravens, with Cam Cameron and Al Saunders, would like to change that perception. But they need practice.

I think they felt like they could USE the Chiefs to determine whether or not their new passing game was working...

Buehler445
09-18-2009, 07:59 AM
Kent Babb with valuable football insight.
Posted via Mobile Device

TheGuardian
09-18-2009, 08:03 AM
And that's fine. But Oakland can't throw the ball. Russel isn't going to come in and beat anyone. He flat out cannot throw with accuracy outside of the hash marks. And as Steve young noted, guys simply do not "learn" how to become more accurate. More times than not a guys accuracy stays within a given range for his career. There is a reason for that.

so Oakland is NOT going to come out slinging the ball all over the field because they'll go 3 and out over and over again and the game will be over by the 3rd quarter. They'll stick to their bread and butter and come out trying to establish the ground game and hope Russell doesn't fuck things up.

Chiefnj2
09-18-2009, 08:16 AM
And that's fine. But Oakland can't throw the ball. Russel isn't going to come in and beat anyone. He flat out cannot throw with accuracy outside of the hash marks. And as Steve young noted, guys simply do not "learn" how to become more accurate. .

Right now Russel may have the greatest accuracy range in the NFL. Last year he had 4 games with a completion % between 30 and 40% and he had 6 games over 65%. That's a huge swing.

htismaqe
09-18-2009, 08:54 AM
Right now Russel may have the greatest accuracy range in the NFL. Last year he had 4 games with a completion % between 30 and 40% and he had 6 games over 65%. That's a huge swing.

He also had a horrible yard per attempt average in almost every game, regardless of completion percentage.

I posted it in another thread but almost 40% of his completions were to backs. Another 25% was to the Miller.

KCUnited
09-18-2009, 09:10 AM
Right now I'm more concerned with them giving up chunks of 4 or 5 yards on 1st down. Make him throw on 3rd and long.

MMXcalibur
09-18-2009, 09:12 AM
Right now I'm more concerned with them giving up chunks of 4 or 5 yards on 1st down. Make him throw on 3rd and long.

This.

If we can get them on 3rd and long, stick every defender on the field on Zach Miller and we should be getting the ball back on the next play. :)

L.A. Chieffan
09-18-2009, 09:16 AM
I think if the Chiefs have a higher amount of "points" on the scoreboard at the end of the game then they have a good chance to win.

Coogs
09-18-2009, 09:21 AM
Even though it is Raiders week, and time to move on from last week, I still do not think the defense was absolutely terrible against the Ravens. There were three could of/would of/ should of opportunities for turnovers that we did not capatilize on. One, a fumble by Flacco on a stripped ball that bounce right to his O-lineman. And there were two passes down the middle of the field that were tipped into the air that we just missed intercepting. Even getting two of those probably takes at least 100 yards off of thier overall total, and getting all three probably eliminates 150 yards.

And, just like any other NFL game you watch, when a team just misses on getting a TO, the other team nearly always scores. Kind of like an extra out in baseball.

I also think it is much harder to "enjoy" your favorite teams games, because the mistakes are agonizing when your favorite team makes them. I'll bet this game was really fun to watch for the casual observer. Much like the two Monday night games were. No real rooting interest for any of the four teams involved, so they were pretty entertaining games.

Saleenman607
09-18-2009, 09:32 AM
What I'll be looking for on Sunday, is whether or not we win the physical point of attack on both side's of the line. This coaching staff (to their credit) has been emphasizing conditioning and physicality as well as smartness. So if they prove none of that, we have some serious trouble brewing.
The Oakland game is supremely important to the morale of this team IMO.
Unlike most homers, last week (to me) was NOT a step forward. Hopefully Sunday is.

HemiEd
09-18-2009, 09:35 AM
They were giving 10 yard cushions on the outside, BEGGING Baltimore to throw the out routes.

And Baltimore did.

The "we were caught by surprise" excuse is pathetic. I can't believe a guy like Vrabel would even say it.

I don't see the game as fast as a lot of you guys, but they sure looked to me like they were totally focused on the run.
Like they had been preparing all week for what they thought Baltimore would do, and hadn't even thought of the pass possibilty.

Chiefnj2
09-18-2009, 09:39 AM
I don't see the game as fast as a lot of you guys, but they sure looked to me like they were totally focused on the run.
Like they had been preparing all week for what they thought Baltimore would do, and hadn't even thought of the pass possibilty.

Lets assume that you are correct. KC thought they would shut down the run on 1st and 2nd down setting up 3rd and medium/long. KC was still utterly horrible on 3rd down plays. Even third and long.

RINGLEADER
09-18-2009, 09:46 AM
The key to winning at Halo: ODST is to not get hit.

Saleenman607
09-18-2009, 09:53 AM
Lets assume that you are correct. KC thought they would shut down the run on 1st and 2nd down setting up 3rd and medium/long. KC was still utterly horrible on 3rd down plays. Even third and long.


QFT

htismaqe
09-18-2009, 11:26 AM
I don't see the game as fast as a lot of you guys, but they sure looked to me like they were totally focused on the run.
Like they had been preparing all week for what they thought Baltimore would do, and hadn't even thought of the pass possibilty.

If they were selling out against the run, then their safeties were too deep and there was no reason to play 10-yard cushions on the outside.

I just don't buy it.

And Chiefnj is 100% correct - IF their gameplan was to stop the run and force 3rd and long, that was some epic failure right there...

Contrarian
09-18-2009, 11:38 AM
The epic fail was due to the fact that they kept throwing to Leggets side on 3rd and long as he was playing 15 yards off of the reciever. FIRST DOWN!!! Ridiculously poor coverage provided by him. It will be a different ball game if Flowers is back. Hell I'd feel better is they threw the safety DeJuan Morgan in there at corner at least he is a ball hawk.

Saleenman607
09-18-2009, 11:40 AM
If they were selling out against the run, then their safeties were too deep and there was no reason to play 10-yard cushions on the outside.

I just don't buy it.

And Chiefnj is 100% correct - IF their gameplan was to stop the run and force 3rd and long, that was some epic failure right there...

Down and distance usually dictates corner play

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2009, 01:03 PM
Kent Babb with valuable football insight.
Posted via Mobile Device

Kent Babb is drooling retard.

Do any of you guys have him on Twitter?

JFC, I used to think Claythan was bad.

Clay's freakin' Adam Schefter next to this pathetic, no-nothing moron.

WTF is the Star thinking?

Christofire
09-18-2009, 03:51 PM
"Kent Babb is drooling retard."

I think the Star (and the readers) needs to realize there are two audiences: 1) Those who will watch every game, know what went down and don't care for what is essentially a recap. And 2) Those that didn't see the game or don't care to make an effort to, but still like to follow them in the paper.

The above article is for group 2. It sets up the scenario, presented a little bit of the behind-the-scenes angst that has resulted, and if I hadn't seen the game, I'd feel like it was pretty good insight into what went down. There's a place for these kinds of stories.

The Star needs to find better ways to target the hardcore fans (group #1). If they even had one guy who could deliver more interesting and more in-depth ideas via the web, guys like Kent Babb could stick in their little niche, and wouldn't take the flak they do from guys like the vagina wounder (mostly because we'd stop reading him).

But even if Kent's Babb-les have a place in the newspaper, they are insane if they think they are going to pique readers' interests with headlines like this:

"Chiefs have to prevent Raiders from converting third-down plays."

You can't even call it boring. That would be a complement.

DaneMcCloud
09-18-2009, 03:56 PM
"Kent Babb is drooling retard."


This wasn't in reference to this article.

It was in reference to his Twitter comments.

Oh, like "The Raiders are going to get 380 total yards, the Chiefs 320".

"Darren McFadden gets 79 yards rushing".

"Crabtree's future? That's a lot of considerations. I still think he ends up with the 49ers. If not, maybe KC?"


He comes across as an ass-kissing fan boy.

Christofire
09-18-2009, 03:58 PM
Ah. My bad.

1ChiefsDan
09-18-2009, 04:10 PM
This wasn't in reference to this article.

It was in reference to his Twitter comments.

Oh, like "The Raiders are going to get 380 total yards, the Chiefs 320".

"Darren McFadden gets 79 yards rushing".

"Crabtree's future? That's a lot of considerations. I still think he ends up with the 49ers. If not, maybe KC?"


He comes across as an ass-kissing fan boy.Friday's he is a real pain in the ass. He is answering questions that people are tweeting him and he goes non stop answering stupidity with more stupidity.

Skip Towne
09-18-2009, 07:57 PM
I think if the Chiefs have a higher amount of "points" on the scoreboard at the end of the game then they have a good chance to win.

Ya think?

milkman
09-18-2009, 08:09 PM
Ya think?

That right there was analysis that you just can't get anywhere else.

We're just lucky we aren't being charged for premium content.