Whitlock: It’s hard for kids to reject hip hop culture

[wild1]

It’s hard for kids to reject hip hop culture
By JASON WHITLOCK
The Kansas City Star

This is a column about the brawls between the Kansas football and basketball teams. To make my point, I’m going to start off clarifying my position on rap music. Stick with me; it’s all going to make sense.

If you read my columns, you know I like rap music. I use some of the slang in my writing.

If you know me personally, you know I’m friends or friendly with many of this city’s rap artists. You may have seen me out socializing with Tech N9ne, Krizz Kaliko, Big Scoob, Skatterman, Snug Brim and the Rogue Dogg Villians. Rich the Factor and I hang out at the same spot before we hit the casino. I’ve never met him, but I think Ron Ron might be Kansas City’s breakout mainstream rapper.

Scoob, Skat, Snug, the RDVs and Rich would all be classified as gangsta rappers. Their music is sexist, violent, filled with stories about drug dealing and laced with the N-word. Scoob has a song with Memphis rappers 8Ball and MJG called “Only Know Hard,” and it is, in my opinion, one of the best gangsta rap songs ever made.

My reputation is that I hate and don’t get gangsta rap music. I don’t hate it, and I definitely get it. I understand its power to corrode values and reinforce negative values of young people.

I’m a grown man. I was raised by two street-smart, employed parents with strong values. I had the support of an older brother, two grandmothers, two uncles, a college-educated stepsister and countless others. As a kid, we moved from the ghetto into a suburban apartment complex. I lived there for nine straight years. My upbringing — except for my senior year of high school — was stable, and then I moved to a college campus.

Rap music entertains me. It does not influence my values. It does not inspire me to adopt the values of gangsta hip-hop culture. My family provided me an unshakable foundation.

We all know that is not the case for a lot of kids in America. A lot of kids, particularly African-American kids, grow up in unstable environments without the support of two parents. A lot of kids today — regardless of race — are raised in front of a television seduced by MTV, BET and VH1. These kids drown out their parents and everyone else by strapping on an iPod and entering their favorite musician’s world.

Gangsta rappers make a living convincing kids that their tales of violence and law-breaking are authentic and a reflection of how real black men should carry themselves. Listening to rap music is not like watching a movie. Arnold Schwarzenegger doesn’t want a kid to believe he’s the Terminator in real life. He wants kids to believe he’s a good actor.

OK, how does all of this relate to the brawls between Kansas basketball and football players?

In pursuit of victories, Bill Self and Mark Mangino have both been recruiting more kids from tough backgrounds. I am not vilifying either coach or the kids they’re bringing to campus. I’m stating an obvious fact. Jacque Vaughn and Sherron Collins have two distinct personalities.

From all the reports I’ve read and a conversation I had Thursday with a former KU football player, the feud between the basketball and football teams has been ongoing for at least two years. It’s not typical college stuff, guys fighting over girlfriends.

A typical college brawl transpires at a bar or a party and alcohol is usually involved. When groups collide at 10 a.m. in the middle of campus, that sounds like gang activity. I’m not calling the basketball and football teams gangs. I’m saying some of the kids are mimicking the behavior of gangs.

And some of these kids grew up in gang-invested neighborhoods. They may not be adopting the values of a college campus. They might instead pollute a college campus with the values derived from their old neighborhood.

Gangsta rap music is anti-assimilation. Keep it 100 (real).

In the lead-up to the latest brawls, Tyshawn Taylor, on his Facebook page, quoted rapper Lil Wayne: “(N-words) be muggin me... you know I’m muggin back.” Taylor also wrote: “real (N-words) do real things.” And after a different status update about always “being a G about it,” teammate Markieff Morris responded by writing, “say no more cuz.”

Let me translate these ramblings. Taylor is saying N-words are staring at him in a menacing fashion (muggin) and he’s returning the mean glares. Taylor also is saying he’s always a gangster (G) about it. Morris’ use of the word “cuz” is interesting. As far as we know, Taylor and Morris are not related. Young people now refer to their closest friends as “fam” (short for family). About the only people still using the slang “cuz,” which was popular in the ’80s, are the Crips, a popular street gang. I’m not calling Morris a Crip. I’m saying he might be mimicking the behavior of Crips.

On Thursday, when Taylor and Collins met with the media, they downplayed Taylor’s Facebook posts, suggesting they were misinterpreted by the media. Taylor said he constantly posts rap lyrics on his Facebook page.

“I listen to my iPod all day,” he said. “If you know me, you see me with my headphones on all the time.”

When asked about his use of the N-word, Taylor hesitated and fumbled to explain. Collins intervened.

“It’s like second nature to us,” Collins said.

Taylor added: “It’s a word we use on a regular basis. It’s accepted when we’re talking to each other.”

Finally, Collins tied the whole thing together.

“Jay-Z uses it. Lil Wayne uses it,” Collins said. “These are rappers we look up to and listen to their music.”

They’re kids. They’re swept up in a culture that preaches to them on their iPods that the way to handle any dispute is with violence. Rep your ’hood (team). Never hesitate to put a N-word on his back. Bitches ain’t (spit).

It’s a dangerous culture that entertains those of us not in it and destroys the young people who buy into it.

Despite the somewhat dismissive, official statements from the Kansas athletics department, Lew Perkins, Bill Self and Mark Mangino are not fools. They know there’s a real problem. They’re trying to fix it without sacrificing the kids (or potential victories).

The reality is, they’re three white guys trying to convince black kids to reject a culture Perkins, Self and Mangino justifiably don’t understand or respect and many black kids think is the end-all-be-all.

It’s a battle being fought in grade schools, high schools, college campuses and homes all across the country.

[Otter]

I view hip hop culture with the same dumbfounded curiosity I do viewing a bum sitting on the street corner arguing with a telephone pole and wearing his dirty underwear on the outside of his pants.

[Demonpenz]

kids are timid and weak and gangsta rap makes them feel hard. Hard is walking away from all that shit and being a man. Helping people.

[Brock]

There was a lot of peer pressure back in the day, if you didn't wear boots and listen to country you must be "a queer".

[dirk digler]

I got a hip-hop education from this article but it still doesn't tell me jack shit why there has been a feud ongoing for 2 years and what led up to it. From someone claiming they have alot of sources he doesn't provide much real info.

Kind of like your Pioli article Jason. All ego no specifics.

[Mile High Mania]

Essentially, it all goes back to a lack of parenting... if parents are not an active positive presence in the life of a child, the child will go astray. It's not the rappers' job to be a role model.

I remember back in the 80s when the PMRC and the conservatives were going crazy about rock/metal... the lyrics, backwards masking, etc. That was just sheer insanity. I was in my teens and I remember saying things like "do these people really think that stands for Knights In Satans Service... do they really think Ozzy worships the devil." I think that most of my friends were smart enough to know better... sure, there were emotionally challenged people that took the lyrics to the extremes, but it's not the fault of the artist.

Sure, we would like for them to be a bit more responsible... but, they're in the business of making money, not raising your kids.

[Saccopoo]

I view hip hop culture with the same dumbfounded curiosity I do viewing a bum sitting on the street corner arguing with a telephone pole and wearing his dirty underwear on the outside of his pants.

That's not a bum. That's Ol'Dirty Bastard from the Wu Tang Clan.

[MOhillbilly]

rap = wwe

[JohninGpt]

rap = wwe

Good call.

[The Franchise]

Is it really considered rap anymore?

I thought rap became about whoever could create the stupidest dance and song.

[Saccopoo]

Is it really considered rap anymore?

I thought rap became about whoever could create the stupidest dance and song.

Then this dude won the prize. Ten Intranets. The Gold medal. Powerball. It doesn't get worse than this. Ever.

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[KCUnited]

Wrong. Self, Mangino, and Perkins aren't trying "convince black kids to reject a culture", they are simply telling them to get their shit together long enough to win some games.

[Thig Lyfe]

We need something to counteract the Soulja Boy shittiness!

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[Saccopoo]

There is basically one hip-hop album in entirety that's worth it's salt. That's worth being mentioned as "music." One.

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What's Golden is like Hip Hop's version of Revolver. They should have just cancelled the genre right then and there.

[CosmicPal]

Too bad Shitlock isn't a Deadhead because then, maybe then, his journalism would be worthy of reading.

[Micjones]

Vilifying Rap music while keeping company with those who represent, in their music, what you pretend to despise?
Typical Whitlock.

"Rap music is the bane of society and blah, blah, blah..."

[Lzen]

There was a lot of peer pressure back in the day, if you didn't wear boots and listen to country you must be "a queer".

:spock: Where the heck did you grow up?

[Lzen]

I remember back in the 80s when the PMRC and the conservatives were going crazy about rock/metal... the lyrics, backwards masking, etc. That was just sheer insanity. I was in my teens and I remember saying things like "do these people really think that stands for Knights In Satans Service... do they really think Ozzy worships the devil." I think that most of my friends were smart enough to know better... sure, there were emotionally challenged people that took the lyrics to the extremes, but it's not the fault of the artist.

Good points and I did the same thing. However, I have since learned that some of those artists idolized Allister Crowley who is, in fact, into devil worship.

[Ronnie Cruz]

I don't have enough posts yet to post a link, but youtube "The Freestyle Fellowship - Innercity Boundaries."

If kids were listening to this...

[KCUnited]

I don't have enough posts yet to post a link, but youtube "The Freestyle Fellowship - Innercity Boundaries."

If kids were listening to this...
Fullback Ronnie Cruz?

[CoMoChief]

I wanna know how many white players were involved.

[HemiEd]

I learned something from jwhit, it clears a some things up.

I am so far removed from this, the gap is the size of the grand canyon. Everytime I hear rap, I want to get violent and destroy whatever source it is coming from. :evil:


jwhit should stick to this kind of article, he seems like a credible source.

[HemiEd]

I wanna know how many white players were involved.

He is talking about football and basketball, not lacrosse.

[Hydrae]

Essentially, it all goes back to a lack of parenting... if parents are not an active positive presence in the life of a child, the child will go astray. It's not the rappers' job to be a role model.

I remember back in the 80s when the PMRC and the conservatives were going crazy about rock/metal... the lyrics, backwards masking, etc. That was just sheer insanity. I was in my teens and I remember saying things like "do these people really think that stands for Knights In Satans Service... do they really think Ozzy worships the devil." I think that most of my friends were smart enough to know better... sure, there were emotionally challenged people that took the lyrics to the extremes, but it's not the fault of the artist.

Sure, we would like for them to be a bit more responsible... but, they're in the business of making money, not raising your kids.



I honestly think a lot of this is due to the fact that most homes are either single parent or have both parents working outside the home. I think this is a huge issue in our society although I have no idea how you address it.

[Coogs]

I wanna know how many white players were involved.

I do not have any link to back this up, but I heard on the radio the day this all broke that Reed and Morningstar were at the scene of one of the fights.

[SDChiefs]

There is basically one hip-hop album in entirety that's worth it's salt. That's worth being mentioned as "music." One.

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What's Golden is like Hip Hop's version of Revolver. They should have just cancelled the genre right then and there.

Uh, NO! Todays "Hip Hop" maybe. But its garbage. 80s-90s Hip Hop was great.

[Micjones]

There is still plenty of amazing Hip Hop music being made.
Radio just isn't the way to find it.

[Saulbadguy]

:spock: Where the heck did you grow up?

I'm guessing any small town in Kansas.

[SDChiefs]

There is still plenty of amazing Hip Hop music being made.
Radio just isn't the way to find it.

Agreed.

[Saccopoo]

There is still plenty of amazing Hip Hop music being made.
Radio just isn't the way to find it.

C'mon Mic, don't pull a Whitlock. Give us some names.

[PunkinDrublic]

Uh, NO! Todays "Hip Hop" maybe. But its garbage. 80s-90s Hip Hop was great.

You know mainstream hip hop is garbage when people are calling lil talent (wayne) a genious.

[BWillie]

Lil Wayne is a pleasure to listen to compared to Soulja Boy

[PunkinDrublic]

Lil Wayne is a pleasure to listen to compared to Soulja Boy

They're both garbage.

[CoMoChief]

I do not have any link to back this up, but I heard on the radio the day this all broke that Reed and Morningstar were at the scene of one of the fights.

Well at the scene is one thing. But were they the ones getting in the scuffle etc?

[CoMoChief]

They're both garbage.

This.

[JohninGpt]

He is talking about football and basketball, not lacrosse.

Not hockey either, otherwise the guy would have been beat to death with his shirt pulled over his head.

[Coogs]

Well at the scene is one thing. But were they the ones getting in the scuffle etc?

I do not know. I was not there. Just know they were reported being there.

[Demonpenz]

Wu tang clan ain't nothing to fuck with

[kcxiv]

There is still plenty of amazing Hip Hop music being made.
Radio just isn't the way to find it.

I have heard very few and in the 90's. 90 percent of my rap listening was underground. I dont hear very many good rap songs these days, even from the same underground area's i used to listen to in the 90's. Its just not the same anymore. Once in a great while you will hear something pretty good, but its not often at all.

For me, its all sounding really horrible now for the most part.

[Saccopoo]

Actually, I'll put out my Hip-hop playlist that's on my IPod right now:

1. "Midnight In A Perfect World" by DJ Shadow
2. "A Day At the Races" by Big Daddy Kane and Jurassic 5
3. "Clint Eastwood (Ed Case Remix)" by Gorillaz
4. "The Way You Move" by Outkast
5. "I Got It (What You Need)" by Galactic & Lyrics Born
6. "Tasmanian Pain Coaster" by El-P
7. "Crabbuckit" by k-os
8. "What's Golden" by Jurassic 5
9. "LINN" by Linn and Freddie
10. "Bomb the World" by Michael Franti & Spearhead
11. "It Takes Two" by MC Rob Base and DJ Easy Rock
12. "Beautiful" by G. Love
13. "Drown In The Now" by The Crystal Method
14. "My Dick" by Mickey Avalon

Some of this could be defined as more electronica than hip-hop, but there isn't a single "gangsta" rap to be found. I don't like the sub-genre, don't like it's message, and don't approve of the racial and gender insults and debasement that is prevelent in that genre. I also don't think that most of the so-called "gangsta" rap artists have much in the way of real musical talent and understanding. (Though I am reluctant to say this as I hate to make such broad based generalizations. That being said, I did work in the music industry - to a certain degree anyway, a sub-industry if you will, and spoke with, was friends with a number of the top flight mastering and recording engineers as well as some higher profile artists and they didn't have much to say complimentary about most of the people in that genre other than they were amazing at pissing away boatloads of cash in the studio.)

[Micjones]

C'mon Mic, don't pull a Whitlock. Give us some names.

Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Lupe Fiasco, Oddisee, Kev Brown, Pacific Division, Blu, Pharoahe Monch, Q-Tip, Little Brother, Buckshot, Slaughterhouse, Jean Grae, Tiye Phoenix, Hezekiah, 88 Keys, Bishop Lamont, Black Milk, Slum Village...

[Micjones]

Lil Wayne is a pleasure to listen to compared to Soulja Boy

Agreed!

[CosmicPal]

He is talking about football and basketball, not lacrosse.

<a href="http://www.creepygif.com/image.php?i=10"><img src="http://www.creepygif.com/images/thumb/10.jpg" alt=""></a>

[Demonpenz]

i love to roll with my hat low and my draws hanging off my ass and swishers sweets, makes me feel hard, but then of course I go back to being white bread when real life takes over.

[BigVE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fumgOJLFSHw&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hN1SKVx31s

[Saccopoo]

Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Lupe Fiasco, Oddisee, Kev Brown, Pacific Division, Blu, Pharoahe Monch, Q-Tip, Little Brother, Buckshot, Slaughterhouse, Jean Grae, Tiye Phoenix, Hezekiah, 88 Keys, Bishop Lamont, Black Milk, Slum Village...

I like some of Fiasco's stuff, but the problem I have with the majority of the Hip-hop genre is that it becomes so incredibly repetitive in terms of that slurred-ish spoken work rapping and sampling.

And why Jurrasic 5's "What's Golden" and DJ Shadow's "Endtroducing..." stand as the crowning achievements in the genre. They are so far beyond the cookie cutter approach that is used by the rest of the culture (although k-os has shown some neat things recently in terms of what he's doing with his music). Witty, insightful, well executed and deep in terms of integrating actual music with spoken word/rap in a very creative method of final execution.

[TrickyNicky]

Rap's pinnacle

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[kcxiv]

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one of the few newer rap songs that i like, to top it off its a eastcoast song. I dont care for their music at all

[vailpass]

Back when cool was cool...

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[Micjones]

I like some of Fiasco's stuff, but the problem I have with the majority of the Hip-hop genre is that it becomes so incredibly repetitive in terms of that slurred-ish spoken work rapping and sampling.

And why Jurrasic 5's "What's Golden" and DJ Shadow's "Endtroducing..." stand as the crowning achievements in the genre. They are so far beyond the cookie cutter approach that is used by the rest of the culture (although k-os has shown some neat things recently in terms of what he's doing with his music). Witty, insightful, well executed and deep in terms of integrating actual music with spoken word/rap in a very creative method of final execution.

It's just harder to find, but certainly not impossible.
I hear great Rap music being made everyday.
The radio's simply not the way to find it. I'm not sure when it was...

The real problem here is the genre doesn't have the kind of balance it had in year's past. Used to be you could see De La Soul following Ice Cube on your standard Rap music video program. Now EVERYTHING looks and feels like Soulja Boy. Very one dimensional.

[Saccopoo]

The real problem here is the genre doesn't have the kind of balance it had in year's past. Used to be you could see De La Soul following Ice Cube on your standard Rap music video program. Now EVERYTHING looks and feels like Soulja Boy. Very one dimensional.

I agree with that. Reminds me of indy about five years ago. Just really searching for a new identity I guess. Maybe it makes it, maybe it doesn't. It's got a broader appeal with certain societal segments than say the trip-hop movement (at least in the US as I perceive it), which has unfortunately gone the way of the dinosaurs. Shame too, as some of the greatest albums I've ever heard came from that genre in a short period of time.

Portishead - "Dummy"
Massive Attack - "Mezzanine," "Blue Lines," "No Protection"
Tricky - "Maxinquaye"

among a multitude of others.

I just don't know about hip-hop these days. The gangsta stuff wore itself out long ago, but they just keep on plugging away at it. Actually, it's lasted longer than I figured it would originally.

BTW - De La Soul is Dead is a great album.

[Micjones]

De La Soul is Dead is a great album.

I prefer Buhloone Mindstate.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

ROFL @ Fatty schooling people on Hip-Hop.


Good points and I did the same thing. However, I have since learned that some of those artists idolized Allister Crowley who is, in fact, into devil worship.

Actually, he's dead. And it wasn't "devil worship".

[Simply Red]

They're both garbage.

except for 'Milli'

[Simply Red]

I agree with that. Reminds me of indy about five years ago. Just really searching for a new identity I guess. Maybe it makes it, maybe it doesn't. It's got a broader appeal with certain societal segments than say the trip-hop movement (at least in the US as I perceive it), which has unfortunately gone the way of the dinosaurs. Shame too, as some of the greatest albums I've ever heard came from that genre in a short period of time.

Portishead - "Dummy"
Massive Attack - "Mezzanine," "Blue Lines," "No Protection"
Tricky - "Maxinquaye"

among a multitude of others.

I just don't know about hip-hop these days. The gangsta stuff wore itself out long ago, but they just keep on plugging away at it. Actually, it's lasted longer than I figured it would originally.

BTW - De La Soul is Dead is a great album.


ha ha, Mezzanine is a great album, and has been for years.

[Simply Red]

Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Lupe Fiasco, Oddisee, Kev Brown, Pacific Division, Blu, Pharoahe Monch, Q-Tip, Little Brother, Buckshot, Slaughterhouse, Jean Grae, Tiye Phoenix, Hezekiah, 88 Keys, Bishop Lamont, Black Milk, Slum Village...

Lupe Fiasco is the better of the listed, amongst the new-school. some of those artists may be considered old by now, lol, it's a shame.

I've been getting into a lot of brit-hop. I like skinnyman's 'i'll be surprised'
and Dilated peoples.

DJ Shadow should be mentioned regarding instrumental HH.

[MikeMaslowski]

Plenty of videos in this thread..... And it's related to a bunch of us confused white kids who love rap...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=208322

[Simply Red]

Plenty of videos in this thread..... And it's related to a bunch of us confused white kids who love rap...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=208322

no, not true MikeMaslowski, You've got a firm understanding of hip-hop

[Simply Red]

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[Micjones]

Artists overseas are making GREAT music today.
Most of the producers I work with are outside of the country.

[Bugeater]

Jesus, I hate rap and hip hop, but blaming the music is ridiculous. How about placing the blame where it belongs, you know, on the men that father these children and don't stick around to raise them? Hell he even pointed out that his family is what kept him in check.

[KcMizzou]

Taylor added: “It’s a word we use on a regular basis. It’s accepted when we’re talking to each other.”

Finally, Collins tied the whole thing together.

“Jay-Z uses it. Lil Wayne uses it,” Collins said. “These are rappers we look up to and listen to their music.”


"We're just impressionable young kids. It's not our fault." Puhleeze. :rolleyes:

[BWillie]

"We're just impressionable young kids. It's not our fault." Puhleeze. :rolleyes:

I don't see how using the word N***** has anything to do with what happened. That is what black people say to each other. Big freaking deal.

[unothadeal]

Y'all bout to get schooled

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[Thig Lyfe]

Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Lupe Fiasco, Oddisee, Kev Brown, Pacific Division, Blu, Pharoahe Monch, Q-Tip, Little Brother, Buckshot, Slaughterhouse, Jean Grae, Tiye Phoenix, Hezekiah, 88 Keys, Bishop Lamont, Black Milk, Slum Village...

Don't forget DOOM!

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[Demonpenz]

I am not saying that music directly leads to some of this shit, but lets not pretend that it doesn't have some effect. Music is very very powerful, can make people cry, or angry, or carve slayer into their skin. How many cowboys live by some hank williams code and drink whiskey and fight all the time. or emo kids.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I am not saying that music directly leads to some of this shit, but lets not pretend that it doesn't have some effect. Music is very very powerful, can make people cry, or angry, or carve slayer into their skin. How many cowboys live by some hank williams code and drink whiskey and fight all the time. or emo kids.


This.

[JuicesFlowing]

I am not saying that music directly leads to some of this shit, but lets not pretend that it doesn't have some effect. Music is very very powerful, can make people cry, or angry, or carve slayer into their skin. How many cowboys live by some hank williams code and drink whiskey and fight all the time. or emo kids.

True. It would be nice for people to make up their own minds though. I listened to the wave of hip-hop shit when i was in high school, then i got into other things and realized I didn't connect with something that made absolutely no sense. At some point in my life, I've listened to every genre of music. These hip-hop kids won't go through that progression. How many low-income hip-hopsters will eventually listen to prog rock ? None of them. Uh, without going into larger socio-economic issue, I'm just saying things won't change for certain people.

[Phobia]

I don't see how using the word N***** has anything to do with what happened. That is what black people say to each other. Big freaking deal.

It's a different debate but it's a big deal for me. You can't call one another an awful word in one breath and then expect everybody else to steer away from it in another. I don't care for the word at all. If I hear it, I ask the individual using it to please refrain from saying it - black, white, yellow - I don't care. I don't want to hear that kind of garbage. For me, it's the most offensive of all slurs and is worse than any profanity.

[StcChief]

If the called it what it is . CRAP. it would be easy to reject.

[Hammock Parties]

It's hard for me to care.

[Jerm]

I fail to see how talking shit or making threats via FACEBOOK is "hood" or "gangsta" but ok.

Just a bunch of dumbass kids acting like morons.
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[Saccopoo]

I am not saying that music directly leads to some of this shit, but lets not pretend that it doesn't have some effect. Music is very very powerful, can make people cry, or angry, or carve slayer into their skin. How many cowboys live by some hank williams code and drink whiskey and fight all the time. or emo kids.

Wagner's effect on the philosophies of Neitzsche...the massive riot in Paris caused by Stravinski's Rite of Spring on it's opening night...

There is/are a plethora of examples where music has had a significant impact on an individuals/group/societies perceptions.

I'm just thankful that kids these days aren't listening to deeper, more emotional stuff. With the downturn in the overall societal mores that we are seeing globally, I'd hate to see what a bunch of kids jacked all up on Shostakovich would be capable of...

[Saccopoo]

True. It would be nice for people to make up their own minds though. I listened to the wave of hip-hop shit when i was in high school, then i got into other things and realized I didn't connect with something that made absolutely no sense. At some point in my life, I've listened to every genre of music. These hip-hop kids won't go through that progression. How many low-income hip-hopsters will eventually listen to prog rock ? None of them. Uh, without going into larger socio-economic issue, I'm just saying things won't change for certain people.

How many of anybody will end up listening to prog rock? Bleh...

Shit, I'd rather sit down to a nightly dose of Norwegian death metal than prog rock.

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[Saccopoo]

Okay. Maybe not Norwegian death metal afterall...

[RNR]

How many of anybody will end up listening to prog rock? Bleh...

Shit, I'd rather sit down to a nightly dose of Norwegian death metal than prog rock.

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LMAO hey if that is what you are into ok..I think it sucks