Just how bad did Peterson fuck the Chiefs???

[petegz28]

Yes, this is a venting thread but JFC, there is nothing good about this team at all.


I can't hang this season on Pioli and Haley....they have one of the biggest challenges in he NFL trying to make a winning team with this pile of shit.

[Red Dawg]

VERY VERY VERY VERY BAD! The talent level is pitiful. If Scott had known it was this bad he would have never left NE.

[Chieftain58]

You have to give the QB at least a few seconds to throw the ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bowener]

I dont think we even constitute a pile of shit, more like a puddle of diarrhea, maybe.

[bowener]

OMG!!!1!!! First down Chiefs from a pass!!

I think some of the flies hovering over the shit lifted the ball through the air!

Fuck, now a hold.

[BigChiefFan]

There's about 10-15 players worth keeping. The rest could easily be replaced.

[GoHuge]

Well Carl wanted to leave his mark on the franchise! He's done that in epic FAIL fashion.
Posted via Mobile Device

[petegz28]

There's about 10-15 players worth keeping. The rest could easily be replaced.

I'm not so sure there are even that many

[the Talking Can]

there is no difference between us and an expansion franchise


none

we are literally starting from nothing

[the Talking Can]

There's about 10-15 players worth keeping. The rest could easily be replaced.

there are maybe 5 players worth keeping

[RNR]

I will never understand why Lamar Hunt gets a total pass by Chief fans. Peterson worked for him and if he did not approve of what he was doing he would have fired him.

[BigChiefFan]

I'm not so sure there are even that many
Dorsey
Jackson
Flowers
Carr
Leggett
Succuop
Colquitt
Bradley
Waters
Albert
Mays
Wade
Charles
Savage
Cassel
Bowe

???

[Pablo]

You need to start RAGING AGAINST THE REGIME.

Pioli had his 8 months to turn this ship around. And he's fucked us. CP gave us 19 years of wonderment and enjoyable times, and the shape of this team is 100% the fault of our current front office and the 2009 offseason.

[MichaelH]

Peterson was in such a hurry to win a playoff game that he ignored how to build a good team. He would nickel and dime players in contract talks making them leave. He would sign other team's castoffs. When the offense was bad, he hired strictly offense and when the defense went bad, did the same. He created absolutely no balance. There hasn't been a decent team that had a top 15 ranking on both sides of the ball in how many years? Carl Peterson is no longer the GM in KC but his ignorance will be felt for many years.

[petegz28]

You need to start RAGING AGAINST THE REGIME.

Pioli had his 8 months to turn this ship around. And he's ****ed us. CP gave us 19 years of wonderment and enjoyable times, and the shape of this team is 100% the fault of our current front office and the 2009 offseason.

that was about one of the most idiotic statements I have seen so far this season

[Pablo]

that was about one of the most idiotic statements I have seen so far this seasonJesus Fuck. I don't know if I coulda laid the sarcasm on any stronger. You're a quick study Pete.

[Psyko Tek]

Dorsey
Jackson
Flowers
Carr
Leggett
Succuop
Colquitt
Bradley
Waters
Albert
Mays
Wade
Charles
Savage
Cassel
Bowe

???

leggette?

[Galileo Humpkins]

Just how bad did Peterson **** the Chiefs???

Does anyone remember Hunter Hearst Helmsley running wild with necromania and engaging in sexual congress with Katie Vick?

Kinda like that.

[petegz28]

Jesus ****. I don't know if I coulda laid the sarcasm on any stronger. You're a quick study Pete.

My bad.....

[wild1]

This is an expansion team. That's what Carl and Herm built. An expansion team. They look like the first year Houston Texans.

[milkman]

Jesus ****. I don't know if I coulda laid the sarcasm on any stronger. You're a quick study Pete.

Sarcasm noted.

However, Pioli did absolutely nothing to address the huge fucking mess that is the O-Line.

Goff sucks ass.
Ndukwe sucks ass.

He needed to address the O-Line with a decnt free agent and in teh draft.

He didn't, and the shithole that remains is on him.

[chiefs1111]

It's not just Peterson. Dicky V didn't give two shits about the draft and it shows. It's one of the reason the Chiefs are were they are now. Screw you Dick V.

[chiefs1111]

Sarcasm noted.

However, Pioli did absolutely nothing to address the huge fucking mess that is the O-Line.

Goff sucks ass.
Ndukwe sucks ass.

He needed to address the O-Line with a decnt free agent and in teh draft.

He didn't, and the shithole that remains is on him.



This. there were many solid Olinemen that the Chiefs could of had in the later rounds and they kept passing on them.

[Buehler445]

Sarcasm noted.

However, Pioli did absolutely nothing to address the huge fucking mess that is the O-Line.

Goff sucks ass.
Ndukwe sucks ass.

He needed to address the O-Line with a decnt free agent and in teh draft.

He didn't, and the shithole that remains is on him.

Truth. Carl left a mess, but he did very little to address it.

[SAUTO]

My bad.....

pete, off topic but did you go to the royals game last night?

[JuicesFlowing]

Yes, this is a venting thread but JFC, there is nothing good about this team at all.


I can't hang this season on Pioli and Haley....they have one of the biggest challenges in he NFL trying to make a winning team with this pile of shit.

I agree here. They are gonna catch shit no matter what, but they can't work miracles on the pile of rubbish they inherited.

[Bane]

there is no difference between us and an expansion franchise


none

we are literally starting from nothing

Uh yeah....An expansion team would draft better.:cuss:

[jwhit]

You guys are crazy if you think this all falls at the feet of Peterson.

There are at least two people who went into training camp thinking this team could compete and be better than 22 guys off the street. And there's at least one person who thinks turning Arrowhead into the Pentagon was going to add some intangible value on the field.

Egoli and Haley focused on the wrong thing this offseason.

Players win games.

[petegz28]

pete, off topic but did you go to the royals game last night?

No, I m done with my tickets for the season

[KCChiefsMan]

yup, trading a franchise DE for a BUST at LT and whoever the 3rd round pick was that's not gonna pan out.

[notorious]

Dorsey
Jackson
Flowers
Carr

Succuop
Colquitt
Bradley
Waters


Wade
Charles

Cassel
Bowe

???

FYP All listed above are MAYBES

[notorious]

yup, trading a franchise DE for a BUST at LT and whoever the 3rd round pick was that's not gonna pan out.

****ing THIS

Albert is turning into a joke.

Was he a Ron Prince recruit at Virginia?

[chiefzilla1501]

Sarcasm noted.

However, Pioli did absolutely nothing to address the huge ****ing mess that is the O-Line.

Goff sucks ass.
Ndukwe sucks ass.

He needed to address the O-Line with a decnt free agent and in teh draft.

He didn't, and the shithole that remains is on him.

Agreed. When he got Cassel, upgrading the offensive line should have been among his top priorities. It's not like anyone is surprised that this o-line isn't any good. And Pioli had a full offseason to address it.

It eerily reminds me of the offseason where Peterson went on vacation during the free agency blitz.

[DJ's left nut]

Wait.

Was it Peterson that decided to sit on a !@#$load of cap space, not make a single attempt to upgrade our O-line in the offseason, hire an overmatched mental patient as a head coach and surround him with proven failures in the coaching staff?

'Cause if so, that guy fucked us something royal.

[Tylerthigpen!1!]

i think we are a couple of offensive linemen away from being decent

[Mojo Jojo]

Why is everyone on the it takes time bandwagon? Bill Parcells took a one win team to the playoffs the next season...that is a division with the Pats who didn't make the playoffs. Turnarounds can happen in one season. The 49ers sucked, can't sign their first round pick and yet look good through two and a half games.

[htismaqe]

Sarcasm noted.

However, Pioli did absolutely nothing to address the huge ****ing mess that is the O-Line.

Goff sucks ass.
Ndukwe sucks ass.

He needed to address the O-Line with a decnt free agent and in teh draft.

He didn't, and the shithole that remains is on him.

This is the same thing we heard with Carl and it's NOT TRUE.

Pioli absolutely DID things to address the line. He brought in Goff, Alleman, Ndukwe, and draft Colin Brown.

Of course, JUST LIKE CARL, it's not that he did NOTHING, it's that he did the WRONG THING.

[Pablo]

You guys are crazy if you think this all falls at the feet of Peterson.

There are at least two people who went into training camp thinking this team could compete and be better than 22 guys off the street. And there's at least one person who thinks turning Arrowhead into the Pentagon was going to add some intangible value on the field.

Egoli and Haley focused on the wrong thing this offseason.

Players win games.I suppose trading for what they thought was a franchise QB and addressing the worst pass rush in the history of the NFL were pretty terrible points to focus on.

Are you really this dense? We're a ****ing terrible franchise and have been for some time now. Why you may ask? Carl ****ing Peterson and Herman ****ing Edwards both contributed greatly to the absolute fail we're seeing on the field right now. Not addressing the OL in a productive manner was a big mistake. Sure. But to act like Carl Peterson doesn't deserve every single last ounce of criticism he gets is point blank retarded. He was a failure and now we have a clean-up crew in their 3rd regular season game and idiots are already calling for heads.

I'm not saying Pioli and Haley are totally faultless, but inheriting a shit franchise typically means investing a great deal of time and effort into turning said franchise around. The effort has been there, maybe a bit misdirected at times; but the time frame so far is ridiculous.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY, SCOTT???? YOU'VE HAD ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD TO DUMP WATER OUT OF THIS SINKING SHIP WITH YOUR DIXIE CUP.

And as for access to Arrowhead..who really gives a shit. The media doesn't win us football games; and if the new boss doesn't want dumb****s wandering around at free will, then too ****ing bad.

/end rant.

[htismaqe]

Wait.

Was it Peterson that decided to sit on a !@#$load of cap space, not make a single attempt to upgrade our O-line in the offseason, hire an overmatched mental patient as a head coach and surround him with proven failures in the coaching staff?

'Cause if so, that guy ****ed us something royal.

Saying they didn't make a single attempt is a lie. Plain and simple.

They acquired 4 new linemen this offseason...

Now if you want to argue that they got the WRONG 4 linemen, be my guest. Because that's NOT a lie.

[kc1977]

Sorry - but you can't blame Peterson for this debacle. The blame lies soley on HERM. Never in Peterson's 20 years was the cupboard this bare. Last year, Herm usurped Peterson's authority and Clark Hunt backed Herm.

[petegz28]

You aren't going to find 5 legit O-lineman in one off-season, I don't care how much cap space you have. Fuck, you will be lucky to find 1 let alone 5.

[DeezNutz]

I suppose trading for what they thought was a franchise QB and addressing the worst pass rush in the history of the NFL were pretty terrible points to focus on.


How did they attempt to address the pass rush? Moving Hali?

[petegz28]

Sorry - but you can't blame Peterson for this debacle. The blame lies soley on HERM. Never in Peterson's 20 years was the cupboard this bare. Last year, Herm usurped Peterson's authority and Clark Hunt backed Herm.

Yea, running off John Tait and holding out hopes for the return of a worn down Roaf was a stellar move.

[chiefzilla1501]

I suppose trading for what they thought was a franchise QB and addressing the worst pass rush in the history of the NFL were pretty terrible points to focus on.

Are you really this dense? We're a ****ing terrible franchise and have been for some time now. Why you may ask? Carl ****ing Peterson and Herman ****ing Edwards both contributed greatly to the absolute fail we're seeing on the field right now. Not addressing the OL in a productive manner was a big mistake. Sure. But to act like Carl Peterson doesn't deserve every single last ounce of criticism he gets is point blank retarded. He was a failure and now we have a clean-up crew in their 3rd regular season game and idiots are already calling for heads.

I'm not saying Pioli and Haley are totally faultless, but inheriting a shit franchise typically means investing a great deal of time and effort into turning said franchise around. The effort has been there, maybe a bit misdirected at times; but the time frame so far is ridiculous.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY, SCOTT???? YOU'VE HAD ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD TO DUMP WATER OUT OF THIS SINKING SHIP WITH YOUR DIXIE CUP.

And as for access to Arrowhead..who really gives a shit. The media doesn't win us football games; and if the new boss doesn't want dumb****s wandering around at free will, then too ****ing bad.

/end rant.

Nobody denies that there's a clean-up effort.

But you're suggesting that the Chiefs invested a great deal of time and effort to make improvements. Maybe I'm missing something, but what time? What effort?

[htismaqe]

My biggest problem with the offensive line right now isn't even that they lack talent.

All we've heard from this staff is about how they need guys to "do it their way".

Well the offensive line right now is on pace to have one of the most penalized seasons in Chiefs HISTORY. They give up sacks, they can't run block - fine.

But the penalties absolutely piss me off. "Doing it the right way" my ass.

Like I said last week when talking about DJ - Brandon Albert needs to be in Haley's doghouse.

[Pablo]

Saying they didn't make a single attempt is a lie. Plain and simple.

They acquired 4 new linemen this offseason...

Now if you want to argue that they got the WRONG 4 linemen, be my guest. Because that's NOT a lie.This. Brown looks like he could be a suitable guard. Too bad he's fucking hurt. That's the luck of the draw. We could have had Meredith; but he got put on waivers and goddamn nobody wanted him. So I guess the 4th, 5th, and 6th round picks of Washington, Brown, and Lawrence are A-OK with me.

[DJ's left nut]

Saying they didn't make a single attempt is a lie. Plain and simple.

They acquired 4 new linemen this offseason...

Now if you want to argue that they got the WRONG 4 linemen, be my guest. Because that's NOT a lie.

I don't consider panic moves during training camp to be 'the offseason'.

In FA and the draft they did nothing.

EDIT: I forgot about Brown, but even the front office conceded that he was never expected to contribute this season.

[petegz28]

WTF do we keep trying to run the fucking ball?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

You guys are crazy if you think this all falls at the feet of Peterson.

There are at least two people who went into training camp thinking this team could compete and be better than 22 guys off the street. And there's at least one person who thinks turning Arrowhead into the Pentagon was going to add some intangible value on the field.

Egoli and Haley focused on the wrong thing this offseason.

Players win games.

Any ideas on why we decided to ignore one of the deepest OL classes in history for yet another 5 technique, a 3rd/4th corner, and the one guy whom we did pick on the line didn't have a profile on any major draft site...and that was in round 5?

[htismaqe]

How did they attempt to address the pass rush? Moving Hali?

They didn't have a single guy on the line that could command a double team. Tyson Jackson draws one on every play.

It's not sexy, but it's not epic fail either.

Epic fail is not drafting linemen in the 3rd and 4th.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

This. Brown looks like he could be a suitable guard. Too bad he's fucking hurt. That's the luck of the draw. We could have had Meredith; but he got put on waivers and goddamn nobody wanted him. So I guess the 4th, 5th, and 6th round picks of Washington, Brown, and Lawrence are A-OK with me.

You might want to check out the Bills. They signed him.

[Easy 6]

I suppose trading for what they thought was a franchise QB and addressing the worst pass rush in the history of the NFL were pretty terrible points to focus on.

Are you really this dense? We're a ****ing terrible franchise and have been for some time now. Why you may ask? Carl ****ing Peterson and Herman ****ing Edwards both contributed greatly to the absolute fail we're seeing on the field right now. Not addressing the OL in a productive manner was a big mistake. Sure. But to act like Carl Peterson doesn't deserve every single last ounce of criticism he gets is point blank retarded. He was a failure and now we have a clean-up crew in their 3rd regular season game and idiots are already calling for heads.

I'm not saying Pioli and Haley are totally faultless, but inheriting a shit franchise typically means investing a great deal of time and effort into turning said franchise around. The effort has been there, maybe a bit misdirected at times; but the time frame so far is ridiculous.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY, SCOTT???? YOU'VE HAD ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD TO DUMP WATER OUT OF THIS SINKING SHIP WITH YOUR DIXIE CUP.

And as for access to Arrowhead..who really gives a shit. The media doesn't win us football games; and if the new boss doesn't want dumb****s wandering around at free will, then too ****ing bad.

/end rant.

Thats it folks, goodnight.

[DeezNutz]

WTF do we keep trying to run the ****ing ball?

LMAO

pete gets frustrated and forgets what thread he's in.

[milkman]

This is the same thing we heard with Carl and it's NOT TRUE.

Pioli absolutely DID things to address the line. He brought in Goff, Alleman, Ndukwe, and draft Colin Brown.

Of course, JUST LIKE CARL, it's not that he did NOTHING, it's that he did the WRONG THING.

How many people were saying that Goff was washed up when he was signed?

How many people said "WTF?" when he drafted Colin Brown?

How is trading away a draft pick for scrubs that daddy in-law was going to cut addressing the problem?

Saying he did the wrong thing is sugar coating.

He didn't address the problem.

He put old used band-aids on the problem

[htismaqe]

I don't consider panic moves during training camp to be 'the offseason'.

In FA and the draft they did nothing.

They brought in Goff in FA and drafted Brown.

That's not "nothing". It obviously wasn't CORRECT, but it's still not "nothing".

[chiefzilla1501]

Sorry - but you can't blame Peterson for this debacle. The blame lies soley on HERM. Never in Peterson's 20 years was the cupboard this bare. Last year, Herm usurped Peterson's authority and Clark Hunt backed Herm.

You can't be serious.

The primary reason this team is in the condition it is today is because the team got really old, and Peterson's ten years of failed drafts brought no good young blood in the pipeline.

No matter how much you hate Herm Edwards, to say Peterson had no hand in this mess is beyond fail. If the Chiefs didn't clean house last year, we'd be in far worse shape now.

[DeezNutz]

They didn't have a single guy on the line that could command a double team. Tyson Jackson draws one on every play.

It's not sexy, but it's not epic fail either.

Epic fail is not drafting linemen in the 3rd and 4th.

That's not enough to qualify as "addressing a problem", IMO.

Could be a logical first step, but there need to be several more. Assembling an embarrassing LB corp for the 34 obviates the Jackson selection.

[Pablo]

How did they attempt to address the pass rush? Moving Hali?I'd imagine when they drafted Jackson they thought he'd do just a little bit more than take on blockers. And so far, he's shown he may have that kind of capability.

[htismaqe]

How many people were saying that Goff was washed up when he was signed?

How many people said "WTF?" when he drafted Colin Brown?

How is trading away a draft pick for scrubs that daddy in-law was going to cut addressing the problem?

Saying he did the wrong thing is sugar coating.

He didn't address the problem.

He put old used band-aids on the problem

They brought in 4 guys - and as you said, most people felt like they were the wrong 4 guys.

Sorry, but no amount of verbal justification is going to make 4 = 0.

[DeezNutz]

I'd imagine when they drafted Jackson they thought he'd do just a little bit more than take on blockers. And so far, he's shown he may have that kind of capability.

I don't.

That never was nor ever will be Jackson's strength.

[Pablo]

They brought in Goff in FA and drafted Brown.

That's not "nothing". It obviously wasn't CORRECT, but it's still not "nothing".Pretty much. People are confusing incorrect moves with total complacency. And that's not the case.

[htismaqe]

That's not enough to qualify as "addressing a problem", IMO.

Could be a logical first step, but there need to be several more. Assembling an embarrassing LB corp for the 34 obviates the Jackson selection.

I can't argue that.

[milkman]

They brought in 4 guys - and as you said, most people felt like they were the wrong 4 guys.

Sorry, but no amount of verbal justification is going to make 4 = 0.

he brought in 4 guys on the cheap.

That's less than nothing in my book.

[milkman]

Pretty much. People are confusing incorrect moves with total complacency. And that's not the case.

Not complacency.

Stupidity.

You don't wipe your ass with paper tha already has shit on it.

[BigChiefFan]

Can't blame Carl? Yea, right-the Captain of no playoff wins in 15 years is absolved of wrong-doing, right? WRONG. Carl built this train wreck and it's up to Pioli and company to dig us out this mess. One off-season can't rid us of the stench just because you think someone can wave a magic wand and make it so.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Brining in 4 nothing scrubs with the roster churn that exists at the back end of every NFL roster, where we are talking about 30+% every year, is jack and shit, especially when there is that much talent available in the draft and rather than drafting any of it, you decide to waste draft picks on older, more expensive players with less upside.

[chiefzilla1501]

They brought in 4 guys - and as you said, most people felt like they were the wrong 4 guys.

Sorry, but no amount of verbal justification is going to make 4 = 0.

The Chiefs went through an entire OTA, offseason, and preseason believing that Mike Goff was good enough to improve the offensive line. They made a few desperation moves picking up other team's scraps.

Goff's poor play was a surprise. McIntosh and Niswanger's poor play surprised nobody. The fact that it took 3 weeks into the preseason to realize that is unbelievable.

[htismaqe]

he brought in 4 guys on the cheap.

That's less than nothing in my book.

Hey, if you want to say that what they did was an overall negative, that's fine with me.

It's still not nothing.

[htismaqe]

Brining in 4 nothing scrubs with the roster churn that exists at the back end of every NFL roster, where we are talking about 30+% every year, is jack and shit, especially when there is that much talent available in the draft and rather than drafting any of it, you decide to waste draft picks on older, more expensive players with less upside.

I don't disagree. They made some pretty poor choices.

[Tylerthigpen!1!]

Why is everyone on the it takes time bandwagon? Bill Parcells took a one win team to the playoffs the next season...that is a division with the Pats who didn't make the playoffs. Turnarounds can happen in one season. The 49ers sucked, can't sign their first round pick and yet look good through two and a half games.

The phins had an easy schedule. Chiefs.... Not so much

[milkman]

Parker, you are basically arguing semantics.

He brought in 4 guys, sure.

But he simply replaced shit with more shit, and the end result, as expected, is nothing changed.

[DJ's left nut]

I apologize. Go ahead and substitute "did absolutely nothing" with "showed himself to be shockingly incompetent in addressing" and the rest of the rant stands.

Y'know what, I think I'd have rather he simply sat on his hands.

Given the choice of lazy or appalingly inadequate, I think I'd take lazy.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I don't disagree. They made some pretty poor choices.

Saying Pioli made a mistake on this board is like dividing by 0. Watch your ass, my friend.

[Deberg_1990]

he brought in 4 guys on the cheap.

That's less than nothing in my book.

Ive heard GBlowfish mention his theory that Clark will not spend any more money until the stadium rebuild is complete...

Which is strange since they spent so much on Cassel

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Parker, you are basically arguing semantics.

He brought in 4 guys, sure.

But he simply replaced shit with more shit, and the end result, as expected, is nothing changed.

No. Had he simply replaced shit with shit, that would be better than burning future draft picks on shit.

[DeezNutz]

No. Had he simply replaced shit with shit, that would be better than burning future draft picks on shit.

Sometimes sacrifices need to be made to acquire the right 53.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Sometimes sacrifices need to be made to acquire the right 53.

9/7/2009: "“Right now, I think we have the right 53"

Todd Haley

[cdcox]

A "no penalties down" is now considered a successful down.

[Mojo Jojo]

The phins had an easy schedule. Chiefs.... Not so much

Pats twice vs. Raiders twice. Can't put it on the schedule. They also did it with Chad Pennington at a bargain price. We traded a second rounder and paid $60 Million.

[htismaqe]

Parker, you are basically arguing semantics.

He brought in 4 guys, sure.

But he simply replaced shit with more shit, and the end result, as expected, is nothing changed.

No, I'm not arguing semantics at all.

He didn't just replace shit with shit. He traded DRAFT PICKS for shit. That's not semantics - that's a VERY important distinction.

Carl was constantly criticized for complacency and at the end of the day, he could sit back and say "I acquired this guy, and this guy, and this guy..." And he was RIGHT. He acquired Carlton Gray, he acquired Chester McGlockton, he acquired Vonnie Holliday.

It's extremely important that the argument is CORRECT so that Pioli doesn't have the same wiggle room Carl always did.

[DeezNutz]

9/7/2009: "“Right now, I think we have the right 53"

Todd Haley


We're 85% there.

[htismaqe]

I apologize. Go ahead and substitute "did absolutely nothing" with "showed himself to be shockingly incompetent in addressing" and the rest of the rant stands.

Y'know what, I think I'd have rather he simply sat on his hands.

Given the choice of lazy or appalingly inadequate, I think I'd take lazy.

I definitely don't disagree with this.

[milkman]

No, I'm not arguing semantics at all.

He didn't just replace shit with shit. He traded DRAFT PICKS for shit. That's not semantics - that's a VERY important distinction.

Carl was constantly criticized for complacency and at the end of the day, he could sit back and say "I acquired this guy, and this guy, and this guy..." And he was RIGHT. He acquired Carlton Gray, he acquired Chester McGlockton, he acquired Vonnie Holliday.

It's extremely important that the argument is CORRECT so that Pioli doesn't have the same wiggle room Carl always did.

Okay.

So he wasn't complacent.
He was simply incompetent.

I feel so much better now.

[htismaqe]

Okay.

So he wasn't complacent.
He was simply incompetent.

I feel so much better now.

It's not supposed to make you feel better. I certainly don't feel better right now.

But I'll feel ALOT better if we go 5 years without winning anything and Pioli gets CANNED vs. getting an extension.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It's not supposed to make you feel better. I certainly don't feel better right now.

But I'll feel ALOT better if we go 5 years without winning anything and Pioli gets CANNED vs. getting an extension.

How about 3?

[htismaqe]

How about 3?

3, 5, makes no difference to me.

I just want to make sure it's not TWENTY.

[Tylerthigpen!1!]

Pats twice vs. Raiders twice. Can't put it on the schedule. They also did it with Chad Pennington at a bargain price. We traded a second rounder and paid $60 Million.

I think they got the best available FA qb. Which is basically what we did. The wildcat won them a game or two also. I'm not a big fan of gadget offenses like that. The fins opponent winning percentage was the third lowest in 2008. Chiefs play the nfc east this year....

[Red Dawg]

You need to start RAGING AGAINST THE REGIME.

Pioli had his 8 months to turn this ship around. And he's ****ed us. CP gave us 19 years of wonderment and enjoyable times, and the shape of this team is 100% the fault of our current front office and the 2009 offseason.

Are you serious? You think this team is shit becasue of Scott? That is laughable.

[Bowser]

Preface: I have not read any of this thread.


The combination of Carl and Herm left this team completely devoid of talent at most positions. The three obvious weaknesses are at offensive line, linebacker, and wide receiver. Their inability to address the o-line specifically in any competent manner will set this team back YEARS. It will be 2011 at the VERY least before we can discuss the Chiefs being relevant in the playoff hunt just because of the lack of talent at o-line. Niswanger is a guard. The right side is a joke. Waters is showing he's pretty average with Willie Roaf not lined up next to him. I haven't made my mind up about Albert yet, but he's either showing to be in one hell of a sophomore slump, or he is just flat out of position. I'll give him this season to prove one way or another where he really belongs.

The lack of linebackers, especially playing a 3-4, is a critical loss. It forces our secondary, the one area where we have some modicum of talent, to play off in these soft zones to be in position to clean up after our slow linebackers that can't make plays. That allows QB's like Kevin Kolb to pick them apart underneath, especially since our linebackers and d-line can't get ANY penetration or pressure on the QB.

Long story short, this team is fucked for the '09 season, and Haley and Co. are going to be hard pressed to win 3 games this year. And the blame for that falls squarely at the feet of Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards.

[cdcox]

How bad did Carl screw the Chiefs? 8












layin' on it's side.

[Bowser]

3, 5, makes no difference to me.

I just want to make sure it's not TWENTY.

Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but I'm thinking Clark isn't going to be loyal to a fault like his father was. We'll see.

[CHIEFS58]

its gonna take another year at least to get out of the hole count chockula put us in.

[htismaqe]

Are you serious? You think this team is shit becasue of Scott? That is laughable.

Scott could have gone ALOT of things to make sure it wasn't because of him. The thing he did aren't looking good right now.

[htismaqe]

Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but I'm thinking Clark isn't going to be loyal to a fault like his father was. We'll see.

I'm even more optimistic - I don't think it's set in stone that Pioli fails.

But yes, I hold out hope like you do that Clark won't need two decades to make changes.

[chiefzilla1501]

Preface: I have not read any of this thread.


The combination of Carl and Herm left this team completely devoid of talent at most positions. The three obvious weaknesses are at offensive line, linebacker, and wide receiver. Their inability to address the o-line specifically in any competent manner will set this team back YEARS. It will be 2011 at the VERY least before we can discuss the Chiefs being relevant in the playoff hunt just because of the lack of talent at o-line. Niswanger is a guard. The right side is a joke. Waters is showing he's pretty average with Willie Roaf not lined up next to him. I haven't made my mind up about Albert yet, but he's either showing to be in one hell of a sophomore slump, or he is just flat out of position. I'll give him this season to prove one way or another where he really belongs.

The lack of linebackers, especially playing a 3-4, is a critical loss. It forces our secondary, the one area where we have some modicum of talent, to play off in these soft zones to be in position to clean up after our slow linebackers that can't make plays. That allows QB's like Kevin Kolb to pick them apart underneath, especially since our linebackers and d-line can't get ANY penetration or pressure on the QB.

Long story short, this team is ****ed for the '09 season, and Haley and Co. are going to be hard pressed to win 3 games this year. And the blame for that falls squarely at the feet of Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards.

It seems to be the "Chiefs Way" to excuse mistakes by current regimes and place all the blame squarely on the previous regimes.

Yes, the previous regime left the team fairly devoid of talent. But what did the Chiefs do since then to remedy the situation? I think most people would agree that the offseason activity once Pioli was hired have been very surprisingly unimpressive. And to this day, I still question the decision to insist upon a 3-4 so quickly. We could have easily milked a 4-3 defense this season and had decent talent to run it, and used our time and attention instead on that offensive line. The decision to move to a 3-4, whether you agree with it or not, took this franchise back at least 2 years.

[RiversRunRed]

i dont know what people expected, we are a bad team, we knew it coming in. Everyone knew the begining of our schedule was going to kill us. We arent probly going to win untill after the bye.

Learn it.

Live it.

Or stfu and go root for a winning team f*ing pussies.

[memyselfI]

I will never understand why Lamar Hunt gets a total pass by Chief fans. Peterson worked for him and if he did not approve of what he was doing he would have fired him.

Same reason Al gets one from many of the Oakland fans.

[chiefzilla1501]

i dont know what people expected, we are a bad team, we knew it coming in. Everyone knew the begining of our schedule was going to kill us. We arent probly going to win untill after the bye.

Learn it.

Live it.

Or stfu and go root for a winning team f*ing pussies.

I was ready to endure a rebuild. The only thing I wanted out of this season was to watch Cassel and see if he can develop and grow.

Sorry, that's not going to happen when there are 3 pass rushers in his face the instant the ball is snapped. This season is a waste of our time, frankly. The defense is too busy running a transitional defense and the offense can't do 90% of the things they'd like to do because of their offensive line.

You hope a bad team can learn and grow and at least some players can get better for next year. But the way Pioli has this team set for this year, there isn't any room for that.

What are we learning? Where are we growing? We might as well just forfeit every game.

[Bowser]

It seems to be the "Chiefs Way" to excuse mistakes by current regimes and place all the blame squarely on the previous regimes.

Yes, the previous regime left the team fairly devoid of talent. But what did the Chiefs do since then to remedy the situation? I think most people would agree that the offseason activity once Pioli was hired have been very surprisingly unimpressive. And to this day, I still question the decision to insist upon a 3-4 so quickly. We could have easily milked a 4-3 defense this season and had decent talent to run it, and used our time and attention instead on that offensive line. The decision to move to a 3-4, whether you agree with it or not, took this franchise back at least 2 years.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to rah-rah for Pioli and Co. Carl and Herm just completely decimated this roster. The Chiefs today are every bit as bad as the dark ages Chiefs of the late 70's and early 80's. Haley has NOBODY that scares opposing teams on EITHER side of the ball. Maybe in a couple of years, with all the young guys coming up, that will be different. But not today, and not this season.

Now, all of that being said, the fact that this team is tens of millions under the salary cap is unfuckingacceptable considering all the massive holes in all phases of this team. Clark should be called onto the carpet if we have 3 wins or less this season for that decision.

[DaWolf]

If we released 30 players off this team tomorrow I have a hard time seeing them get jobs.

We have officially become an expansion team...

[the Talking Can]

9/7/2009: "“Right now, I think we have the right 53"

Todd Haley


ever heard of context?



he can only select from what he had...doesn't mean they were the 53 he wanted


who did we cut who was such a difference maker that it makes you cry?

[milkman]

i dont know what people expected, we are a bad team, we knew it coming in. Everyone knew the begining of our schedule was going to kill us. We arent probly going to win untill after the bye.

Learn it.

Live it.

Or stfu and go root for a winning team f*ing pussies.

We knew that we were going to be bad, but we also knew going into the offseason and into the draft that this team needed O-Line help, and Pioli didn't get it.

And ftr, pricks like you who think we should be sunshine and fucking rainbows are useles fucking bastards that need to just suck on Pioli's ass.

[chiefzilla1501]

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to rah-rah for Pioli and Co. Carl and Herm just completely decimated this roster. The Chiefs today are every bit as bad as the dark ages Chiefs of the late 70's and early 80's. Haley has NOBODY that scares opposing teams on EITHER side of the ball. Maybe in a couple of years, with all the young guys coming up, that will be different. But not today, and not this season.

Now, all of that being said, the fact that this team is tens of millions under the salary cap is un****ingacceptable considering all the massive holes in all phases of this team. Clark should be called onto the carpet if we have 3 wins or less this season for that decision.

Our receivers are playing well under the circumstances. And we've kept two games close in spite of how poorly we're mismatched.

It wouldn't have taken much to make this team at least competitive. One or two interior offensive linemen that were worth a damn. It's not like we can say that the Chiefs didn't have resources. It's not like we can say that the Chiefs have a lot of young players they wanted to test on the o-line. It's not like the Chiefs can say they didn't have the cap space.

And again, the talent void wouldn't be nearly as significant right now if we didn't insist on building a 3-4.

The Chiefs made the conscious decision to place o-line at the bottom of their priority list.

[BigChiefFan]

Some people have impossible expectations for this team. They have sucked for 3 plus years and added very little talent in that time frame. Pioli has been the GM for 3 GAMES and some can't understand why we suck ass. There's 53 players on a roster, we had 7 draft picks, you do the math.

[htismaqe]

It seems to be the "Chiefs Way" to excuse mistakes by current regimes and place all the blame squarely on the previous regimes.

Yes, the previous regime left the team fairly devoid of talent. But what did the Chiefs do since then to remedy the situation? I think most people would agree that the offseason activity once Pioli was hired have been very surprisingly unimpressive. And to this day, I still question the decision to insist upon a 3-4 so quickly. We could have easily milked a 4-3 defense this season and had decent talent to run it, and used our time and attention instead on that offensive line. The decision to move to a 3-4, whether you agree with it or not, took this franchise back at least 2 years.

I don't even mind the move to the 3-4. If that's the defense they want and they think they can win with, might as well start now.

It's the offensive line that is inexcusable.

[the Talking Can]

It seems to be the "Chiefs Way" to excuse mistakes by current regimes and place all the blame squarely on the previous regimes.

Yes, the previous regime left the team fairly devoid of talent. But what did the Chiefs do since then to remedy the situation? I think most people would agree that the offseason activity once Pioli was hired have been very surprisingly unimpressive. And to this day, I still question the decision to insist upon a 3-4 so quickly. We could have easily milked a 4-3 defense this season and had decent talent to run it, and used our time and attention instead on that offensive line. The decision to move to a 3-4, whether you agree with it or not, took this franchise back at least 2 years.

huh?

our defense was shit from top to bottom and you're making the claim we should have kept the 4-3 because we had "decent talent" to run it?

they have made decisions for long term reasons at the expense of the short term in almost every situation....personally, i am glad, even if it makes it easy for people to kill them over short term losses...


at one point people were actually accusing them of just wanting to be 8-8....now we accusing them of not wanting to be 8-8

going to be a long shitty year, and most of these guys are not part of our future....drafting differently would not have changed that...

[htismaqe]

Some people have impossible expectations for this team. They have sucked for 3 plus years and added very little talent in that time frame. Pioli has been the GM for 3 GAMES and some can't understand why we suck ass. There's 53 players on a roster, we had 7 draft picks, you do the math.

Donald Washington played well today, no?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

ever heard of context?



he can only select from what he had...doesn't mean they were the 53 he wanted


who did we cut who was such a difference maker that it makes you cry?

I can tell you of plenty of people we didn't sign or draft who would have been players, and plenty of people we acquired who won't be.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Donald Washington played well today, no?

Mike Goff
Itchy Ass Ndukwe
Mike Brown


all were stellar.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

huh?

our defense was shit from top to bottom and you're making the claim we should have kept the 4-3 because we had "decent talent" to run it?
.

Because spending 40 million on a position of huge impact in the 4-3 (Dorsey) is every bit as intelligent as spending 100 million on a complimentary position in a 3-4 (Dorsey and Jackson).

Because schemes win games, not players.

[Bowser]

Mike Goff
Itchy Ass Ndukwe
Mike Brown


all were stellar.

They should get the Tuesday practice off.

[chiefzilla1501]

huh?

our defense was shit from top to bottom and you're making the claim we should have kept the 4-3 because we had "decent talent" to run it?

they have made decisions for long term reasons at the expense of the short term in almost every situation....personally, i am glad, even if it makes it easy for people to kill them over short term losses...


at one point people were actually accusing them of just wanting to be 8-8....now we accusing them of not wanting to be 8-8

going to be a long shitty year, and most of these guys are not part of our future....drafting differently would not have changed that...

I'm not opposed to the decision to run a 4-3 or a 3-4. I'm just speaking to the people who insist that this team is an abortion solely because of mistakes made by the previous administration.

Pioli could have accelerated the rebuild if he chose to build a 4-3. He didn't. I'm okay with that decision, but the previous administration shouldn't be blamed for not doing a good job building for a defense they weren't intending to run.

[DeezNutz]

but the previous administration shouldn't be blamed for not doing a good job building for a defense they weren't intending to run.

Just be quiet. It's Herm's fault.

[Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan]

I'm still waiting for this miracle list of Offensive linemen who were available in FA?

[htismaqe]

Pioli could have accelerated the rebuild if he chose to build a 4-3. He didn't. I'm okay with that decision, but the previous administration shouldn't be blamed for not doing a good job building for a defense they weren't intending to run.

Um, no.

The existing personnel SUCKS, 3-4 or 4-3.

[BigChiefFan]

huh?

our defense was shit from top to bottom and you're making the claim we should have kept the 4-3 because we had "decent talent" to run it?

they have made decisions for long term reasons at the expense of the short term in almost every situation....personally, i am glad, even if it makes it easy for people to kill them over short term losses...


at one point people were actually accusing them of just wanting to be 8-8....now we accusing them of not wanting to be 8-8

going to be a long shitty year, and most of these guys are not part of our future....drafting differently would not have changed that...

I agree. Long-term we will be better served.

[chiefzilla1501]

Um, no.

The existing personnel SUCKS, 3-4 or 4-3.

Hali-Dorsey-Tank-
DJ-Mays-Demorrio Williams
Mike Brown-Jarrad Page

And on top of that, we'd have depth on the d-line that we don't have now.

Like I said, I'm not opposed to switching to a 3-4. But we set the rebuild back at least 1-2 years because of that decision. We were a few players away from having a decent 4-3 defense.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'm still waiting for this miracle list of Offensive linemen who were available in FA?

Jason Brown, Ray Willis: FA

Draft: Well, there were about 15 guys who could have helped.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Hali-Dorsey-Tank-
DJ-Mays-Demorrio Williams
Mike Brown-Jarrad Page

And on top of that, we'd have depth on the d-line that we don't have now.

Like I said, I'm not opposed to switching to a 3-4. But we set the rebuild back at least 1-2 years because of that decision. We were a few players away from having a decent 4-3 defense.

Jarron Gilbert, Lawrence Sidbury, BJ Raji are some of many guys who could have helped with our defensive front in a 4-3, and were good value where we picked.

[chiefzilla1501]

I'm still waiting for this miracle list of Offensive linemen who were available in FA?

The issue most have is that the Chiefs' only move was to bring in Goff and Colin Brown.

Given the state we knew the line was in, I would have used at least a 3rd or a 4th (maybe both) for a top-rated interior lineman. And I would have loaded this roster with some undrafted rookies. In free agency, you could go after Jason Brown or Matt Birk as stopgap centers. At tackle, you could have gotten Stacy Andrews.

1 or 2 early draft picks
Stacy Andrews
Matt Birk
Jason Brown

Not amazing options. But better than the pile of shit we have now.

[dirk digler]

CP and Herm really fucked the Chiefs because of their incompetence. But Pioli\Haley deserve just as much blame when it comes to not fixing this O-Line because it was shitty last year and hasn't improved at all this year.

[Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan]

The issue most have is that the Chiefs' only move was to bring in Goff and Colin Brown.

Given the state we knew the line was in, I would have used at least a 3rd or a 4th (maybe both) for a top-rated interior lineman. And I would have loaded this roster with some undrafted rookies. In free agency, you could go after Jason Brown or Matt Birk as stopgap centers. At tackle, you could have gotten Stacy Andrews.

1 or 2 early draft picks
Stacy Andrews
Matt Birk
Jason Brown

Not amazing options. But better than the pile of shit we have now.

I'm not arguing that, but everyone is crying that we didn't spend money on FA Offensive Linemen. OK? Who were they? Who was out there that was going to turn this line around? How much did they want?

I wanted them to go after people also, but I sure the hell didn't see that much in either the draft or FA this year. This was a crap year to try and rebuild because there was nothin' there.

[htismaqe]

Hali-Dorsey-Tank-
DJ-Mays-Demorrio Williams
Mike Brown-Jarrad Page

And on top of that, we'd have depth on the d-line that we don't have now.

Like I said, I'm not opposed to switching to a 3-4. But we set the rebuild back at least 1-2 years because of that decision. We were a few players away from having a decent 4-3 defense.

Hali isn't a 4-3 DE any more than he's a 3-4 OLB. He's too easily neutralized 1-on-1 and has no real pass rush moves.

Tank played NT in college.

DJ and Mays play ILB in the 3-4. They're the functional equivalent of the MLB and WSLB in the 4-3. In other words, they're playing their natural positions regardless of scheme.

That leaves us with Dorsey and Williams. Dorsey isn't playing all that bad, certainly better than he did last year in a base 4-3. And Williams isn't a building block for anything.

[chiefzilla1501]

I'm not arguing that, but everyone is crying that we didn't spend money on FA Offensive Linemen. OK? Who were they? Who was out there that was going to turn this line around? How much did they want?

I wanted them to go after people also, but I sure the hell didn't see that much in either the draft or FA this year. This was a crap year to try and rebuild because there was nothin' there.

The goal shouldn't have been to turn the o-line around. None of those guys would do that (although, I think a 3rd round guard or center had a very good chance of being one less piece to worry about).

The goal should have been to give Cassel some chance to develop as a quarterback. Even if that means giving him an average of 1 more second to throw the ball per down. Or how about this... how about not having one lineman completely blow a block PER PLAY.

The decision to get a franchise quarterback and surround him with a piss poor interior offensive line was retarded beyond comprehension.

[htismaqe]

Jarron Gilbert, Lawrence Sidbury, BJ Raji are some of many guys who could have helped with our defensive front in a 4-3, and were good value where we picked.

To be fair, they could have helped in a 3-4 too.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

To be fair, they could have helped in a 3-4 too.

Yeah, but we wouldn't have the worst cover backers in the league in a 4-3, and we wouldn't be one of about 8 teams looking for a 0 technique in the draft.

[chiefzilla1501]

Hali isn't a 4-3 DE any more than he's a 3-4 OLB. He's too easily neutralized 1-on-1 and has no real pass rush moves.

Tank played NT in college.

DJ and Mays play ILB in the 3-4. They're the functional equivalent of the MLB and WSLB in the 4-3. In other words, they're playing their natural positions regardless of scheme.

That leaves us with Dorsey and Williams. Dorsey isn't playing all that bad, certainly better than he did last year in a base 4-3. And Williams isn't a building block for anything.

But you're also forgetting that we would have a lot more rotational depth in a 4-3 than a 3-4. And it goes without saying, if you don't transist into a 3-4, you don't need Tyson Jackson. That pick could have been used elsewhere, including potentially pulling off a trade with the Jets to trade up for Sanchez. And no way in hell would Pioli have drafted TWO defensive tackles with our first two picks.

Again, not arguing against a 3-4. I think our defense has been surprisingly decent. But that decision pushed our rebuild back a year or two and arguably took away resources for bringing in some offensive linemen.

[htismaqe]

Yeah, but we wouldn't have the worst cover backers in the league in a 4-3, and we wouldn't be one of about 8 teams looking for a 0 technique in the draft.

Yeah, I guess. Meh.

I don't think there's any argument you could make right now that could convince me that scheme has anything to do with it.

These guys just suck, 4-3 or not.

[el borracho]

You guys are crazy if you think this all falls at the feet of Peterson.

There are at least two people who went into training camp thinking this team could compete and be better than 22 guys off the street. And there's at least one person who thinks turning Arrowhead into the Pentagon was going to add some intangible value on the field.

Egoli and Haley focused on the wrong thing this offseason.

Players win games.

1. For your own sake you should stop using the nickname "Egoli." It isn't clever in the least.
2. Media access has nothing to do with on-field performance and merits no discussion. If you wish to be a journalist and cover the Chiefs, then watch the games and base your discussion on things that matter.
3. We still may win more this year than last. The front end of the schedule is brutal but we will have opportunities later in the season to eclipse Herm's "accomplishments" in 2008.

[htismaqe]

But you're also forgetting that we would have a lot more rotational depth in a 4-3 than a 3-4. And it goes without saying, if you don't transist into a 3-4, you don't need Tyson Jackson. That pick could have been used elsewhere, including potentially pulling off a trade with the Jets to trade up for Sanchez. And no way in hell would Pioli have drafted TWO defensive tackles with our first two picks.

Again, not arguing against a 3-4. I think our defense has been surprisingly decent. But that decision pushed our rebuild back a year or two and arguably took away resources for bringing in some offensive linemen.

If the final goal is a 3-4, doing ANYTHING with the 4-3 is pushing back the rebuild.

Your arguing both sides of the coin. Running the 4-3 this year might have allowed us to do more on the offensive side of the ball, at the expense of delaying the defense.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

1. Mark Sanchez
2. Ron Brace/Mauluga/Britton
3. Antoine Caldwell
4. Lawrence Sidbury
5. Duke Robinson

[BigRedChief]

Yes, this is a venting thread but JFC, there is nothing good about this team at all.


I can't hang this season on Pioli and Haley....they have one of the biggest challenges in he NFL trying to make a winning team with this pile of shit.In every single way we can get screwed. No coach or system could win with this talent.

[chiefzilla1501]

If the final goal is a 3-4, doing ANYTHING with the 4-3 is pushing back the rebuild.

Your arguing both sides of the coin. Running the 4-3 this year might have allowed us to do more on the offensive side of the ball, at the expense of delaying the defense.

Again, I have no problem with running a 3-4. I was actually a big supporter a few months ago when Pioli said we were moving to it.

I'm just pointing out that a) it set the rebuild back one more year than if we ran a 4-3; b) that it's not that the Chiefs were devoid of talent... they just had players for the wrong scheme.

[htismaqe]

Again, I have no problem with running a 3-4. I was actually a big supporter a few months ago when Pioli said we were moving to it.

I'm just pointing out that a) it set the rebuild back one more year than if we ran a 4-3; b) that it's not that the Chiefs were devoid of talent... they just had players for the wrong scheme.

Dude, think about what you're saying.

If the final goal is running the 3-4, every year you run the 4-3 sets you back another year from running the 3-4.

You might have accelerated the rebuild of the offense by sticking with the 4-3, because you could have used those resources to acquire OL or WR. But you would have deliberately delayed rebuilding the defense.

The ONLY way sticking with the 4-3 this year doesn't delay the rebuild is if the final goal is the 4-3. It's not, so using the 4-3 this year just delays the inevitable.

And no, it's not just players for the wrong scheme. They suck.

[Saccopoo]

9/7/2009: "“Right now, I think we have the right 53"

Todd Haley


In reference to the 70+ guys they started summer camp with. Derrr.

You people need to chill the fuck out.

You think that the NFL teams are just going to give away their top players in cut downs?

This is/was an evaluation season. They brought guys in that they thought would help. Vrabel, Thomas, Goff, Brown - guys with experience and quality production in their backgrounds. They tried to fill in the holes that started to develop during summer camp and the pre-season (Engram, Toomer, Wade, Alleman, Ndukwe). They went into a draft with a substantially shorter schedule than other teams due to the later hirings, had to use the morons that Carl relied upon as talent evaluators, and some people think that they did nothing, or that they didn't draft a certain guy because some schmuck on some 19 year old "gurus" draft board was higher than another guy that they fucked up and screwed the pooch? That's being completely idiotic.

This team is so completely devoid of talent thanks to Carl/Herm/Dick/Gunther (but moreso Carl than anyone by a large margin), it's going to take three years at a minimum to get this team to a .500 level club. Five years minimum before they are a consistent playoff contender. And that's being generous in my book.

The entire offensive line needs an overhaul, including everyone's favorite player on this board - Brandon Albert, whose looked beyond awful in three straight games now. We need four new linebackers, two new safeties, more depth at cornerback, a decent tight end, at least two new receivers, and a shit ton of athleticism on special teams.

And you think that's going to be fixed in a single off-season and one draft?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Yeah, I guess. Meh.

I don't think there's any argument you could make right now that could convince me that scheme has anything to do with it.

These guys just suck, 4-3 or not.

How about the fact that it's harder to find guys for a 3-4, and with more teams running it, it will make it even more difficult?

It's just moneyball, period.

[Saccopoo]

1. Mark Sanchez
2. Ron Brace/Mauluga/Britton
3. Antoine Caldwell
4. Lawrence Sidbury
5. Duke Robinson

Let it go dude. It's not going to happen no matter how many times you keep posting your wish list - from last years draft.

[chiefzilla1501]

Dude, think about what you're saying.

If the final goal is running the 3-4, every year you run the 4-3 sets you back another year from running the 3-4.

You might have accelerated the rebuild of the offense by sticking with the 4-3, because you could have used those resources to acquire OL or WR. But you would have deliberately delayed rebuilding the defense.

The ONLY way sticking with the 4-3 this year doesn't delay the rebuild is if the final goal is the 4-3. It's not, so using the 4-3 this year just delays the inevitable.

And no, it's not just players for the wrong scheme. They suck.

We're arguing different points here.

I have no problem with running a 3-4.

But people want to know why we were so low on passable roster players. And my response is because we made the conscious decision to move to an entirely different defense. I'm mostly supportive of that decision. I'm just saying that in terms of making the defense passable, we got held back one year. And yes, I do agree that if Pioli truly believes he can build a really good 3-4 defense, that you have more upside with that than a 4-3 (because passable isn't good enough).

[Saccopoo]

Again, I have no problem with running a 3-4. I was actually a big supporter a few months ago when Pioli said we were moving to it.

I'm just pointing out that a) it set the rebuild back one more year than if we ran a 4-3; b) that it's not that the Chiefs were devoid of talent... they just had players for the wrong scheme.

They most likely had the wrong players for the 4-3 as well. You don't set the NFL's sack futility record by having the "right" players. Years of bad drafts, incorrectly evaluating talent, bad free agent signings, etc. No, it was either scrap it now and start the rebuild process, or go through another year of dicking the dog in a f'ed up scheme (the Herm/Gun amalgamated tragedy) built around bad players.

[chiefzilla1501]

They most likely had the wrong players for the 4-3 as well. You don't set the NFL's sack futility record by having the "right" players. Years of bad drafts, incorrectly evaluating talent, bad free agent signings, etc. No, it was either scrap it now and start the rebuild process, or go through another year of dicking the dog in a f'ed up scheme (the Herm/Gun amalgamated tragedy) built around bad players.

I'm not convinced of this. I think if you brought in a real good pass rusher and a decent MLB, and you have coaches who can actually coach them up, it could have been decent. Couple that with a scheme that was better suited for the player's talents. They would have had quality depth, which we don't have now. One reason I pause about the 3-4 is that Pendergast actually had an outstanding season the year he coordinated a 4-3 defense.

But again, I'm fine with the decision to move to a 3-4. But I realize it will force us to go through more growing pains.

[htismaqe]

How about the fact that it's harder to find guys for a 3-4, and with more teams running it, it will make it even more difficult?

It's just moneyball, period.

Pioli's job is to overcome those things.

[RiversRunRed]

We knew that we were going to be bad, but we also knew going into the offseason and into the draft that this team needed O-Line help, and Pioli didn't get it.

And ftr, pricks like you who think we should be sunshine and ****ing rainbows are useles ****ing bastards that need to just suck on Pioli's ass.

Meh i guess i was just reacting to the people who are immediately calling for the coaches head at this point which i think is two much of a gutcheck reaction.

You dont have to be completely positive all the time, especially with how bad we were today. I just don't think 300 posts about how our o-line sucks is helping either, considering a blind man could see it.

I would like to know why we haven't brought anyone else in at this point, except possibly to build continuity. But after today that plan should probably be reconsidered.

[petegz28]

Pioli's job is to overcome those things.

Well, he isn't going to work any magic in 8 months. Especially after the way the needs of this team were ignored for so long.

[Marcellus]

Pioli's job is to overcome those things.

Instantly? Come on. This isn't 18 years into the 5 year plan for fuck sake.

[DaneMcCloud]

Well, he isn't going to work any magic in 8 months. Especially after the way the needs of this team were ignored for so long.

The problem is that not ONE position has been upgraded since Pioli took over as the Chiefs.

Cassel may become a franchise QB but at this point in time, he's interchangeable with Brodie fucking Croyle.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

"We're going to build a sm-

%(/

[WildTurkey]

The problem is that not ONE position has been upgraded since Pioli took over as the Chiefs.

Cassel may become a franchise QB but at this point in time, he's interchangeable with Brodie ****ing Croyle.

Hey you must be forgetting about Ryan Succop... he's def better than Conner Barth :shake:

[Smed1065]

yup, trading a franchise DE for a BUST at LT and whoever the 3rd round pick was that's not gonna pan out.

Now he is a bust?

[Smed1065]

The problem is that not ONE position has been upgraded since Pioli took over as the Chiefs.

Cassel may become a franchise QB but at this point in time, he's interchangeable with Brodie fucking Croyle.


Not 1?

So Thigpen was great?

[Simplex3]

Wait.

Was it Peterson that decided to sit on a !@#$load of cap space, not make a single attempt to upgrade our O-line in the offseason, hire an overmatched mental patient as a head coach and surround him with proven failures in the coaching staff?

'Cause if so, that guy fucked us something royal.

Yeah, because getting into numerous bidding wars with a teams who actually ARE only a player away from being good is the best way to build a winning franchise.

[petegz28]

The problem is that not ONE position has been upgraded since Pioli took over as the Chiefs.

Cassel may become a franchise QB but at this point in time, he's interchangeable with Brodie ****ing Croyle.

Bullshit. The jury is still out on Jackson...and our kicker position is much upgraded. So there.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Hey you must be forgetting about Ryan Succop... he's def better than Conner Barth :shake:

I know I sleep so good at night knowing our ability to "rock the kick" is the Chiefs primary calling card in a game.

[Smed1065]

You have to give the QB at least a few seconds to throw the ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because it is not Sanchezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz?

:)

[WildTurkey]

I have to give Dane some credit he has predicted us to go 0-16 and I'm jumping on that bandwagon.... I could easily see us not winning a game... the Browns might be our only shot

[petegz28]

I have to give Dane some credit he has predicted us to go 0-16 and I'm jumping on that bandwagon.... I could easily see us not winning a game... the Browns might be our only shot

That was a real reach of a call.....

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

That was a real reach of a call.....

At the time, it was.

[htismaqe]

The problem is that not ONE position has been upgraded since Pioli took over as the Chiefs.

Cassel may become a franchise QB but at this point in time, he's interchangeable with Brodie ****ing Croyle.

Come on man, have a drink and relax.

Cassel's got rocked today and didn't tear or break anything. He's already an upgrade over Croyle.

")

[htismaqe]

Well, he isn't going to work any magic in 8 months. Especially after the way the needs of this team were ignored for so long.

He isn't going to work any magic at all if he doesn't start making better personnel decisions. The moves he made on the offensive line actually made them WORSE.

Instantly? Come on. This isn't 18 years into the 5 year plan for **** sake.

See above.

[The_Doctor10]

Why is everyone on the it takes time bandwagon? Bill Parcells took a one win team to the playoffs the next season...that is a division with the Pats who didn't make the playoffs. Turnarounds can happen in one season. The 49ers sucked, can't sign their first round pick and yet look good through two and a half games.

Yeah, but if you looked at that Dolphin team, they weren't REALLY a 1-15 team; they got absolutely murdered by injuries. They were down to seventh-string DBs. They had a weak o-line and non-existent QB play (Trent Green got hurt in like week 2 I believe). And don't think that Miami wins that division if Pollard doesn't decimate Brady's knee.

Now, Pennington comes in, they draft Long, Ricky and Ronnie are healthy, and you have a weak sked, and then things are a little easier.

But now look at them. 0-3, Pennington can't consistently get it done because of his arm limitations. That defence doesn't look as good as it did last year.

Do you want to be a one-year wonder or a consistent winning team for a few years?

[petegz28]

He isn't going to work any magic at all if he doesn't start making better personnel decisions. The moves he made on the offensive line actually made them WORSE.



See above.

Not to be cliche but sometimes you have to get worse to get better.

[ChiefsCountry]

Vermeil screwed this franchise with his horrible draft decisions. Those players should be in their prime and the backbone of the franchise. Who do we have left from Vermeil drafts? DJ and Colquitt I think are it. That is why this franchise is in the crappier. Herm couldn't coach worth a crap but he had the right idea, he wasn't right one to lead it but it was the right idea. I felt a lot better about the franchise going in the right direction in February than I do now.