Tankless Water Heaters

[Groves]

I can find internet articles, but I can't find actual users. Sometimes you find an actual user, but they're reluctant to say, "Yea, I was a sucker." (if it's true)

Anyone here with experience?

Our 30gal is going the way of all things, so I'm looking into my options.

We've got 3 kids 4-8yrs old. It already seems like it takes a while for the water to get hot, which is the "downside" to tankless, so I figure why not give it a try?

Certainly seems like a majority of the hours of the day, we're not using hot water.

[jidar]

A coworker bought into a tankless system a few years back.

They ended up with a few problems.

The main one is that the water just doesn't get as hot as a tank. This can suck for your morning showers but that part you can get used to. The real problem is that it made his dishwasher and washing machine not work worth a shit. He ended up getting a small tank just to keep a store for his appliances.

[luv]

We've got tankless water heaters in the apartment complex I live in. I've been here for almost a year, and I haven't had any problems with mine. Water heats up in no time, and gets very hot.

[bigbucks24]

Have used tankless water heaters in restaurants for years. Water gets very hot and supply is endless. Have never used one residentually. Would have LOVED one when I was a kid growing up with 3 older sisters. Talk about NEVER having hot water.

[Ugly Duck]

I'm about to have one of em installed any day now. Report will be forthcoming....

[max sleeper]

We put one in our house 2.5 years ago (electric) and it works great. The only gripe I might have is getting hot water to the kitchen sink... it takes about 20 seconds. We will soon put a small tankless under that sink. They really save on the utility bill. And it will burn you ass if we have it set to high. Good luck Go Chiefs!

[Silock]

Tankless are win. How long it takes to get hot depends on a variety of factors, but the cost savings alone make them worth it. They get just as hot as other heaters.

[kepp]

I don't have one at the moment, but you can bet that's what I'll get when our tank/conventional one goes out. I've heard nothing but good things about them.

[Bane]

I have 3 installed in my house. The laundry room,the kitchen,and in our bathroom.I have nothing bad to report.They heat up quickly,and work great for me so far.

[dtebbe]

I just installed a Rinnai R75LSIn about a month ago. Works awesome. Takes maybe 3-4 seconds longer to deliver the initial hot water, but then delivers it forever. Runs 2 showers and anything else you want to turn on (ie washer, dishwaser) at the same time, you never notice the other device coming online when you are in the shower (well, maybe an EVER so slight momentary reduction in temp - 5 sec or so). I took the time after the install to insulate all my hot water pipes I could access, and this also seemed worthwhile.

With the standard controller on the R75 you can flip 1 dip switch and set the output temp as high as 140 degrees. I've been running mine at 125.

The real gas savings comes in 2 forms:
1. Not heating water all day while you are not using it

2. Uses only as many BTUs that is required to raise the water temp from supply to selected output temp. In other words it will use even less gas in the summer, when the water supply is 80+ degrees. In the winter when the supply temp drops, it will use more gas. It's a "smart" device.

I have not received my 1st gas bill after installing it yet, but I suspect a pretty good savings considering my old 40 gallon heater was a cheap builder-grade unit that was 10 years old.

A few suggestions:
1. Buy a Rinnai - The US HQ is about 5 miles from my house, and all the local plumbing guys have been there for training and have dealt with them on support. The plumbers I race with all have had zero problems, but say if any issues come up Rinnai is excellent to deal with.

2. Install the Rinnai valve kit when you do the install. Should you ever need to service, remove, or replace the unit this will pay for itself 100 times over.

3. Install a scale filter if you don't have a water softener. I found one for about $70, has a $25 cartridge you replace twice a year. Scale is the big enemy of tankless water heaters.

If you are doing it yourself, it's a big project. I had to install a 110v outlet, upsize my gas supply to 3/4", cut a 6" hole in the side of the house for the vent, etc. It's not just a matter of directly replacing the tank heater. I spent about $1500 on mine, by the time I bought the valve kit, exhaust plumbing, and other misc hardware needed to complete the install (Was quoted $2800-$3200 installed by several plumbers). Bought the Rinnai stuff from a wholesaler on Ebay. THIS IS NOT A JOB FOR AN INEXPERIENCED DO-IT-YOURSELFER.

The only downside I see is that it is a much more complicated device. So, more can go wrong. Only time will tell how this will go. I did open up the unit to "unlock" the higher water output temp, and I can tell you it is very modular in construction, so it would be easy to service. Pretty much 1 control board and a few sensors.

Here is a pic of my finished install:
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs255.snc1/10220_1171521621055_1618453741_458129_1175287_n.jpg

DT

[Brock]

recommend

[htismaqe]

I can find internet articles, but I can't find actual users. Sometimes you find an actual user, but they're reluctant to say, "Yea, I was a sucker." (if it's true)

Anyone here with experience?

Our 30gal is going the way of all things, so I'm looking into my options.

We've got 3 kids 4-8yrs old. It already seems like it takes a while for the water to get hot, which is the "downside" to tankless, so I figure why not give it a try?

Certainly seems like a majority of the hours of the day, we're not using hot water.

My dad has been doing heating and cooling for over 30 years and he says tankless water heaters are worth it.

[nstygma]

i purchased a bosch powerstar ae115 electric but haven't installed it yet

[nstygma]

2. Install the Rinnai valve kit when you do the install. Should you ever need to service, remove, or replace the unit this will pay for itself 100 times over.

3. Install a scale filter if you don't have a water softener. I found one for about $70, has a $25 cartridge you replace twice a year. Scale is the big enemy of tankless water heaters.
where did you get the scale filter and valve kit?

[Groves]

This is great stuff, guys. Looking forward to install reports. Seems like folks are split on the electric/gas versions.

[djjay]

I have installed and serviced many tankless water heaters with my job. We are a Rinnai dealer, and have had zero problems with any we have put in. We have installed them for domestic hot water use, home heating use, under slab heat, and dual purpose uses. Even have a guy that fills his pool with it!! I recommend them to anyone wanting to switch out they're existing tank style water heater. Never run out of hot water and the water temp is easily adjustable. Any questions just message!

[dtebbe]

where did you get the scale filter and valve kit?

Valve Kit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170378333684) (this is also where I ordered my Rinnai from VERY good toll-free pre-sales support)

Scale Filter (http://www.plumbingsupply.com/scale-inhibitor.html)

DT

[ohiobronco2]

Son of a plumber. Big fan of tankless heaters. They are an expensive initial investment (units are more expensive and you will have to tweak your existing plumbing), but totally worth it. Depending on the distance, it may take some time to get hot water to a faucet, but you get an endless supply. This is especially great if you have a large bath or garden tub. Look into tax incentives on tankless heaters, might be another reason to buy.

[nstygma]

any opinions on the electric models? i know the stores push the gas models but i have electric, plus the service to accommodate it. i should be installing soon... its an 80amp model

[Groves]

All you guys that have them, did you go with indoor our outdoor models? How did you decide? Does the roof match the siding match the unit? Carpet match the drapes match the unit?

[nstygma]

the focus is on removing the redundancy removal

[ferrarispider95]

the focus is on removing the redundancy removal

I have an electric unit, 80 amp also, draws some serious juice to run. Water is plenty hot. I can't quantify savings to a normal water heater, because this is what we installed new.

Gas would be probably be more efficient compared to electric, but I was in the same boat as having an all electric house. Just make sure you got the room and the amps in your panel.

I installed mine, didn't put a filter on it, but did add a shut off value. I had pex in the house and installed 24" of copper to each side of the unit.

[svuba]

My Brother in law installed one 2 years ago, and is very dissatisfied, I have spent quite a bit of time at his house as well, and the experience has made me change my mind about tankless.

It take SOOOO LONG to get Hot water that his family no longer even attempts to wash their hands with hot water. if you are taking a shower then you can wait for it to heat up, but for washing hands, or a few dishes it is a nightmare.

He has a small house and even the sinks that are close to the water heater take too long to heat up.

If I went tankless I would have to consider a recirculation system, or a small point of use tank so that I could wash my hands. Of course the POU tanks negate the energy savings of a tankless to a large degree.

[Brock]

My Brother in law installed one 2 years ago, and is very dissatisfied, I have spent quite a bit of time at his house as well, and the experience has made me change my mind about tankless.

It take SOOOO LONG to get Hot water that his family no longer even attempts to wash their hands with hot water. if you are taking a shower then you can wait for it to heat up, but for washing hands, or a few dishes it is a nightmare.

There's something very wrong with that system.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

There's something very wrong with that system.

possibly. Most tankless heaters require a certain amount of water flow to activate. It is possible that they are not meeting that threshold.

[nstygma]

It take SOOOO LONG to get Hot wateris it a gas or electric unit?

[Brock]

possibly. Most tankless heaters require a certain amount of water flow to activate. It is possible that they are not meeting that threshold.

That, and another factor is incoming water temperature. If it's coming in too cold, the unit may not have the right range to heat the water appropriately.

[dtebbe]

All you guys that have them, did you go with indoor our outdoor models? How did you decide? Does the roof match the siding match the unit? Carpet match the drapes match the unit?

I went with the inside model, since this was a retrofit, and it would have been a major ordeal to go with an outside unit. All else being equal I would go with an outdoor unit, if it was just as easy to install. No venting to worry about on the outdoor unit. And I did notice that even on the indoor models, there is circuitry to prevent freeze-ups, so I'm sure the outdoor models handle that aspect without an issue.

As far as time to deliver water, mine takes 3-5 seconds longer than the tank unit, tops, and will deliver hot water with a pencil sized stream. Any tankless system that is working correctly should not take that much longer to deliver the initial hot water. Now, IMHO, I don't see how an electric model could perform as well as gas, simply because in my mind gas is going to produce more BTUs faster than electric can.

DT

[Groves]

I can see the writing on the wall. My "new water heater" project is about to mushroom into a full PEX replumb and probably a new water line.

These projects give me goosebumps of glee. Can't wait to start.

[HC_Chief]

Having the Rinnai 94 installed this Friday :thumb:

[dtebbe]

I can see the writing on the wall. My "new water heater" project is about to mushroom into a full PEX replumb and probably a new water line.

These projects give me goosebumps of glee. Can't wait to start.

I enjoy plumbing. My dad started out as a pipefitter apprentice on the railroad when he was 18 and was quite the artisan with all things plumbing. Lost him to cancer a little over a year ago, and I felt like he was watching right over my shoulder coaching me the entire time I was working on my project. When I finished I stepped back and took and look and felt he would be proud.

Now, the next project is replacing the drum bearing & seal on my 15 year old Maytag Neptune washer. Something tells me that is not going to be fun, since I have to take out the whole tub to replace it. But I'm attached to the ol' girl so I give it a shot :)

DT