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Chiefnj2
10-01-2009, 03:10 PM
In your opinion, are the Patriots still a top 5 team or is the reign over? I'd say no.

1. Ravens
2. Giants
3. Vikings
4. Colts
5. Saints

ChiefsCountry
10-01-2009, 03:13 PM
As long as Brady is the QB, they will be a threat.

Brock
10-01-2009, 03:14 PM
The Steelers get knocked off because they lost to Cincinnati?

keg in kc
10-01-2009, 03:15 PM
I think a lot depends on how Brady's playing by the end of the season, he's such an integral part of that team. If their defense is as improved from last year as they appear to be, then I think they're a legitimate contender once their offense is back up to speed. If it gets back up to speed.

FD
10-01-2009, 03:16 PM
Maybe not, but if I were a Ravens, Colts or Steelers fan, I still wouldn't want to meet them in the playoffs.

Amnorix
10-01-2009, 03:24 PM
They suck ballz!! The reign is over. Brady and Belichick are washed up has-beens. They are NOTHING to worry about for anyone. Really!!!



In all seriousness, the offense isn't on the same page yet. I expect the Patriots to struggle through the early part of the season and then come together well by the 2nd half and be a serious threat in the playoffs if they haven't completely screwed their playoff positioning by then. I note that their sched is much harder than last year also, which will be negatively affecting the entire AFC East this year.

The Franchise
10-01-2009, 03:34 PM
They suck ballz!! The reign is over. Brady and Belichick are washed up has-beens. They are NOTHING to worry about for anyone. Really!!!



In all seriousness, the offense isn't on the same page yet. I expect the Patriots to struggle through the early part of the season and then come together well by the 2nd half and be a serious threat in the playoffs if they haven't completely screwed their playoff positioning by then. I note that their sched is much harder than last year also, which will be negatively affecting the entire AFC East this year.

That will happen when you're two starting WRs are hurt. Brady misses Welker and it shows.

Amnorix
10-01-2009, 03:38 PM
That will happen when you're two starting WRs are hurt. Brady misses Welker and it shows.

Well, one starting WR. Moss has missed a bit of practice time, but seemed fine on the field last Sunday.

The bigger problem is that Galloway isn't on the same page yet and is playing like a clueless rookie instead of a 13 year or whatever vet. With Welker out, the fourth receiver is really a special teams guy.

And Brady has been uncharacteristically inaccurate.

But yeah, I think our offense will get together by mid-season at the latest.

JD10367
10-01-2009, 03:47 PM
It's three games into the season, and Brady is coming back from an injury.

They beat Atlanta, who looked pretty good up until Sunday. The Jets game, I don't know what the hell happened there; there was no gameplanning and no adjustments made. It was as if the coaches all took Stupid Pills.

Once Brady gets healthy and stops overthrowing, and Welker gets healthy, they'll be fine. The D is already showing solid signs of improvement; last week, everyone was talking about how the Falcons would run wild and Matt Ryan would throw for 150 yards just to Tony Gonzalez, and the Pats' D did a decent job. Yeah, yeah, I know, the time of possession was in their favor; still, without Richard Seymour, without last year's DROY Jerod Mayo, and without Vince Wilfork, they still looked pretty good.

However, I do grant you that the injuries are already taking their toll on the powerhouses. Anyone think the Steelers would be 1-2 if Polamalu hadn't gotten hurt? Or that the Chargers wouldn't have a better record? Or that the Pats might not have beaten the Jets with Jerod Mayo and Wes Welker on the field?

Usually, those powerhouse teams are deep enough to withstand injury. Right now, all three of them (Pats, Steelers, Chargers) are staggering a little from the suckerpunch; now it's a question of whether they'll get their second wind and start punching back.

Nzoner
10-01-2009, 03:58 PM
Just off the top of my head the Ravens and Giants have played 2 of the arguably worst teams in the NFL,don't get me wrong,they're very good teams but when I look at a Pats team with a big come from behind win to start the season,a Pats team that visited the Jets and barely lost and a Pats team that convincingly beat a 2-0 Falcons team I still think they belong in the top 5somewhere.

Add in Brady returning from his injury and no Welker and yes,most definitely they are still a top team and one that can secure that even moreso with a win against the Ravens on Sunday.

Basileus777
10-01-2009, 03:59 PM
The Pats real problem has been their inability to score in the redzone. They've been able to move the ball on offense, and their defense has mostly done it's job.

Dylan
10-01-2009, 04:17 PM
Brian Billick Answers Your Questions
By The New York Times

Q.Coach, perhaps it’s too soon for this question: What are the best and worst teams you’ve seen so far, and what are the biggest surprises in your mind so far this season? — Walt Bennett


http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/30/submit-your-questions-for-brian-billick/

Buehler445
10-01-2009, 04:17 PM
They suck ballz!! The reign is over. Brady and Belichick are washed up has-beens. They are NOTHING to worry about for anyone. Really!!!



In all seriousness, the offense isn't on the same page yet. I expect the Patriots to struggle through the early part of the season and then come together well by the 2nd half and be a serious threat in the playoffs if they haven't completely screwed their playoff positioning by then. I note that their sched is much harder than last year also, which will be negatively affecting the entire AFC East this year.

Heh. What's interesting is that their first SB and their injury plagued SB, they probably weren't a top 5 team then either. I think they're definitely contenders and I'd be surprised if they missed the playoffs.

Quesadilla Joe
10-01-2009, 04:18 PM
I think they look pretty average without Josh McDaniels running the show on offense.

Buehler445
10-01-2009, 04:22 PM
I think they look pretty average without Josh McDaniels running the show on offense.

ROFL @ YOU

BWillie
10-01-2009, 04:54 PM
Short answer: Yes. They went 11-5 w/ freaking Matt Cassel. They'll be fine.

JD10367
10-01-2009, 05:14 PM
I think they look pretty average without Josh McDaniels running the show on offense.

Ah, yes. He was the true mastermind.

JD10367
10-01-2009, 05:14 PM
My Pats would be fine, if the f**king Chiefs would stop raiding their roster!

:p

Mecca
10-01-2009, 06:41 PM
Natural progression, younger teams are taking over the top spots.

ChiefsCountry
10-01-2009, 06:44 PM
My Pats would be fine, if the f**king Chiefs would stop raiding their roster!



You can have all of them back, every single one of them.

Mecca
10-01-2009, 06:45 PM
Think about what do the Ravens and Giants do better than the Patriots....draft.

Halfcan
10-01-2009, 06:45 PM
I think the Saints have a good thing going.

JD10367
10-01-2009, 07:40 PM
Think about what do the Ravens and Giants do better than the Patriots....draft.

In this decade:

Ravens: one SB.

Giants: one lucky-ass SB.

Patriots: three SBs, should've been four if they hadn't colossally choked.

And Pats drafting seems to be working out okay. Brady, Seymour, Wilfork, Mayo... sure, they misfire on a bunch, who doesn't? But they make smart FA pickups and develop low-round talent, too, so it balances out.

Mecca
10-01-2009, 07:42 PM
Just sayin if you compare recent history, those teams are performing better on draft day than the Patriots are, the Giants especially.

Dylan
10-02-2009, 02:16 AM
Think about what do the Ravens and Giants do better than the Patriots....draft.

how sweet.

I'm just happy that the Giants have so much depth. So far, the rookies and backups are responsible for winning three games.


Coughlin signs players off the wires on Monday and by Sunday, he has them making plays. -- It's unbel.

Injury List - (Starters)

Ahmad Bradshaw out with ankle/foot injury (new to the list)
DT Chris Canty (calf)
CB Kevin Dockery (hamstring)
WR Domenik Hixon (knee)
C Adam Koets (ankle)
RT Kareem McKenzie (knee)
WR Hakeem Nicks (foot)
CB Aaron Ross (hamstring)
LB Clint Sintim (groin)
DE Justin Tuck (shoulder) *new
RB Danny Ware (elbow).
LB Chase Blackburn (high right ankle sprain)

Lost for the season
NT Jay Alford HUGE LOSS. injured during preseason
Kenny Philips -- another huge loss -- Kenny INT Romo twice in Dallas

Dylan
10-02-2009, 02:38 AM
In this decade:

Ravens: one SB.
Giants: one lucky-ass SB.

Patriots: three SBs, should've been four if they hadn't colossally choked.

And Pats drafting seems to be working out okay. Brady, Seymour, Wilfork, Mayo... sure, they misfire on a bunch, who doesn't? But they make smart FA pickups and develop low-round talent, too, so it balances out.

The Patriots didn't colossally choke -- The Patriots colossally sucked! -- Playing against the AFC East Divisional teams twice a year - yeah, that must've been tough.

Welcome to smashmouth football.

You're boys are done, along with Red Sox

There aren't any lucky games in the NFL -- Quit playing Maddon

Dylan
10-02-2009, 02:40 AM
I think the Saints have a good thing going.

They look good.

Pioli Zombie
10-02-2009, 04:25 AM
That will happen when you're two starting WRs are hurt. Brady misses Welker and it shows.
Is this the old "let's see how good he is without Moss and Welker" thing? Actually, one of Bradys many great accomplishments was almost taking the Patriots all the way in 2006 with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney as his WRs. I think it was good he kicked butt with his receivers last week. And I think sundays game will tell us a lot how good both they and the Ravens are.
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Mile High Mania
10-02-2009, 04:29 AM
It's early, but right now I would put them just outside the top 5... they're still a threat and a contender though.

Pioli Zombie
10-02-2009, 04:32 AM
Why are the Vikings ahead of the Colts and Saints? Because they escaped with their lives at home against the 49ers??
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Mile High Mania
10-02-2009, 04:43 AM
I like them in this order...

Ravens
Giants
Saints
Colts
Vikings

Then you have a mesh of teams that are all very similar...

Jets, Packers, Eagles, Patriots

Then the next group...

49ers, Chargers, Broncos, Cowboys, Bears, Falcons, Bengals,

I don't know where to put the Steelers or Titans... I'm just not convinced that those 2 teams are really 1-2 and 0-3 quality, but we'll see.

Pioli Zombie
10-02-2009, 04:47 AM
I like them in this order...

Ravens
Giants
Saints
Colts
Vikings

Then you have a mesh of teams that are all very similar...

Jets, Packers, Eagles, Patriots

Then the next group...

49ers, Chargers, Broncos, Cowboys, Bears, Falcons, Bengals,

I don't know where to put the Steelers or Titans... I'm just not convinced that those 2 teams are really 1-2 and 0-3 quality, but we'll see.
Why aren't the Chiefs up there? If they only had either Tony G or Mark Sanchez they'd be 3-0 don't you know.
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morphius
10-02-2009, 05:38 AM
Until the Vikes actually do something, I wouldn't put them in the top 5.

Amnorix
10-02-2009, 06:38 AM
Just sayin if you compare recent history, those teams are performing better on draft day than the Patriots are, the Giants especially.

Over the last 4 years that's probably about right. Pats had some mediocre draft years in there, no question about it.

I'm not sure I'd trade the Pats roster for the Giants roster however. And I sure as hell wouldn't trade our coach for yours, though I like Coughlin just fine.

Amnorix
10-02-2009, 06:41 AM
I don't know where to put the Steelers or Titans... I'm just not convinced that those 2 teams are really 1-2 and 0-3 quality, but we'll see.

Seems like some SB hangover for the Steelers. People forget that it is often really hard to play well the year after being int he SB, win or lose. Between the extra-long season, the loss of passion by some players (i.e. complacency), having players and coaches raided at a higher rate (not sure if this applies to the Steelers), and the fact that every opponent has circled you on its calendar as a "test of where we are", it's a very different road to hoe when you wear the crown.

Mecca
10-02-2009, 06:43 AM
Over the last 4 years that's probably about right. Pats had some mediocre draft years in there, no question about it.

I'm not sure I'd trade the Pats roster for the Giants roster however. And I sure as hell wouldn't trade our coach for yours, though I like Coughlin just fine.

I'm not a Giants fan, I do like what they've done with their roster.

Their team is built to be good longer their stars are younger, they have a really nice young core.

El Jefe
10-02-2009, 07:04 AM
The Patriots didn't colossally choke -- The Patriots colossally sucked! -- Playing against the AFC East Divisional teams twice a year - yeah, that must've been tough.

Welcome to smashmouth football.

You're boys are done, along with Red Sox

There aren't any lucky games in the NFL -- Quit playing Maddon

FIGHT...FIGHT...FIGHT!




ps "Madden"

Amnorix
10-02-2009, 07:04 AM
I'm not a Giants fan, I do like what they've done with their roster.

Their team is built to be good longer their stars are younger, they have a really nice young core.

I think so. In my mind, they got lucky in 2007 to actually win that SB game, but they are a real contender and are set up to be a real contender for years to come.

Dylan
10-02-2009, 07:10 AM
FIGHT...FIGHT...FIGHT!




ps "Madden"

ROFL

BY1401
10-02-2009, 07:11 AM
Welcome to smashmouth football.


Smashmouth football didn't win XLII.

Dylan
10-02-2009, 07:15 AM
I think so. In my mind, they got lucky in 2007 to actually win that SB game, but they are a real contender and are set up to be a real contender for years to come.

American Football Concept: You want to win -- make the play


Honestly Amnorix, I thought you knew that ~

Dylan
10-02-2009, 07:32 AM
Over the last 4 years that's probably about right. Pats had some mediocre draft years in there, no question about it.

I'm not sure I'd trade the Pats roster for the Giants roster however. And I sure as hell wouldn't trade our coach for yours, though I like Coughlin just fine.


And the Patriots had some good tapes. ...

Hydrae
10-02-2009, 07:43 AM
Even with how the Pats have looked so far I still stand by my preseason pick of the Pats vs the Giants again in the Super Bowl.

Mile High Mania
10-02-2009, 08:06 AM
I think so. In my mind, they got lucky in 2007 to actually win that SB game, but they are a real contender and are set up to be a real contender for years to come.

I don't know that I would say they were 'lucky' to defeat NE in the SB.. their defense played very well and the offense did exactly what they needed to do to win.

Amnorix
10-02-2009, 10:31 AM
American Football Concept: You want to win -- make the play


Honestly Amnorix, I thought you knew that ~

Hey look, full credit to the Giants. They played a great game. Completely out of their minds. But in my mind, if those two teams play 10 times the Pats win about 8 of them.

The helmet catch, the dropped pick by 'Sante. There was some flukey stuff that saved the Giants bacon.

But they outplayed us that day, and they deserved the win. They got it, and I'm not bitter or anything. It's similar to the Pats Snow Bowl win. I'm not sure that Pats were really a better team, but they were better THAT day, so we won, and went on to win the SB.

OnTheWarpath15
10-02-2009, 10:32 AM
Pioli leaves, they fucking fall apart.

Shocking.

HC_Chief
10-02-2009, 10:34 AM
Hell yes they are. As long as Tom Brady is healthy, they are a team with a legit shot.

Amnorix
10-02-2009, 10:34 AM
I don't know that I would say they were 'lucky' to defeat NE in the SB.. their defense played very well and the offense did exactly what they needed to do to win.

I really don't want to carry on this debate, because it's impossible to look like anythign but sour grapes. It's not. The Giants played out of their skulls, and though I think the Patriots underperformed that day, I think a whole lot of that had to do with the Giants, especially winning the battle of their DLine versus our OLine.

But the Tyree catch was completely nuts. It should have been a sack, Eli escapes, lofts it up, and the guy catches it on his helmet? The dropped pick by Samuel?

Mainly, I'll say it again -- I think that if you could have those two teams face each other 10 times, the Pats win the vast majority of those.

BUT THE GIANTS OUTPLAYED THE PATRIOTS, SO THEY WON. End of story.

JD10367
10-02-2009, 10:36 AM
The Patriots didn't colossally choke -- The Patriots colossally sucked! -- Playing against the AFC East Divisional teams twice a year - yeah, that must've been tough.

Welcome to smashmouth football.

You're boys are done, along with Red Sox

There aren't any lucky games in the NFL -- Quit playing Maddon

Oh, please. "Smashmouth football", LOL. Your f**king Giants were lucky to even make the playoffs in '07, and they just happened to get hot at the best time. I thoroughly admit the Giants' D-line outplayed the Pats that day, and the Pats' O picked the worst time to suck balls. They couldn't block, the WRs couldn't catch, and Brady wasn't his best. And with all that, it STILL took you a friggin' miracle doink off a facemask to win that game. So please don't tell us about what a great powerhouse the Giants are, okay? Or did I miss them winning another SB last season? Eli will never be Payton, Coughlin will never be Belichick, and I guarantee you the Patriots are back in the SB before the Giants are.

Dylan
10-02-2009, 10:48 AM
A short summary on Spygate, written by Greg Bishop of the New York Times --

Spygate

The teams were already in the middle of a budding rivalry on Sept. 9, 2007. Jets Coach Eric Mangini and several of his assistants had worked previously in New England, and their departure was not well received by Patriots Coach Bill Belichick.

The Patriots were caught filming the Jets' defensive signals during the season opener at the Meadowlands. The National Football League investigated the team and ordered the Patriots to send all materials relating to their videotaping practices to the league office.

Before the N.F.L. received the tapes, Commissioner Roger Goodell fined Belichick $500,000 and the Patriots $250,000. He also docked the team a first-round draft pick. Then he destroyed the tapes.

Read More...

Nearly four months passed quietly, until Senator Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania and the ranking member of his party on the Senate Judiciary Committee, got involved. After writing two letters to Goodell without response, Specter expressed his displeasure to The New York Times two days before the Patriots lost to the Giants in the Super Bowl.

Along the way, Belichick admitted to taping opponents' signals since his arrival in New England in 2000. Specter pressed Goodell to conduct an impartial investigation, and an erroneous report surfaced in The Boston Herald that said the Patriots had taped the St. Louis Rams' walk-through before the 2002 Super Bowl. The Herald later apologized for the report.

Eventually, all roads led to Matt Walsh, a former Patriots employee who spent three seasons in the video department. In late April, Walsh reached a legal agreement with the N.F.L. to share his information in the matter. In mid-May, he was interviewed separately by Specter and Goodell and also sat down with The New York Times.

After meeting with Walsh, Goodell essentially declared Spygate over, but he reserved the right to open his investigation if new information surfaced. Specter disagreed, calling for an independent investigation.-- Greg Bishop, May 23, 2008

http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/spygate/index.html?scp=2&sq=new%20england%20patriots%20spygate&st=cse

Class dismissed

JD10367
10-02-2009, 11:03 AM
And the Patriots had some good tapes. ...

Thanks for going for Spygate after only two pages. Saves me the trouble of reading anything else that spews forth from your douchebag lips.

Dylan
10-02-2009, 11:08 AM
Stick to the facts -- It is much more impressive

CoMoChief
10-02-2009, 11:08 AM
they have the best QB-WR combo in the league and a good Oline, and good HomeField advantage.

Yes theyre still a threat.

Amnorix
10-02-2009, 11:32 AM
Class dismissed

You know that none of this applies to 2007, when we went undefeated until the Super Bowl, right?

Just checking.

El Chapo
10-02-2009, 04:27 PM
Just wait until Robert Kraft tries to adopt Jerusalem and Tel Aviv as home markets, the Patriots will rival the Cowboys as the highest grossing franchise in the NFL. They are a super franchise in the making. They should compete for Lombardis over the next 20 years.

Reaper16
10-02-2009, 05:15 PM
In this decade:

Ravens: one SB.

Giants: one lucky-ass SB.

Patriots: three SBs, should've been four if they hadn't colossally choked.

And Pats drafting seems to be working out okay. Brady, Seymour, Wilfork, Mayo... sure, they misfire on a bunch, who doesn't? But they make smart FA pickups and develop low-round talent, too, so it balances out.
Look at how silly you are. Forget the bullcrap that is the "should have been four" argument, a bigger error is thinking that only the first round of the draft matters.

Mama Hip Rockets
10-02-2009, 06:38 PM
people seriously think the ravens are the best team in the NFL?

RJ
10-02-2009, 07:15 PM
I'll let you know after they play the Ravens Sunday.

RJ
10-02-2009, 07:16 PM
people seriously think the ravens are the best team in the NFL?


Right this minute they probably do. Maybe not so much next month.

JD10367
10-02-2009, 07:54 PM
Look at how silly you are. Forget the bullcrap that is the "should have been four" argument, a bigger error is thinking that only the first round of the draft matters.

I never said that. But what I was refuting was the post that seemed to say the Giants and Ravens are where they are today--and that the Patriots are declining--because the Giants and Ravens draft better than the Patriots. And that supposition is utter bullshit in all facets.

boogblaster
10-02-2009, 08:11 PM
Who cares .. cheating ref helpin bastards ...

TEX
10-02-2009, 08:17 PM
people seriously think the ravens are the best team in the NFL?


Yep. They are pretty darn solid.

Marcellus
10-02-2009, 08:19 PM
people seriously think the ravens are the best team in the NFL?

They have a top 10 rated defense and offense, so yea.

Mama Hip Rockets
10-02-2009, 08:58 PM
i think the ravens need to beat the steelers before they can even be in this conversation. the ravens lost to the steelers 3 times last year. also, they barely beat the cassel-less and flowers-less chiefs in their home opener.

RJ
10-02-2009, 09:02 PM
i think the ravens need to beat the steelers before they can even be in this conversation. the ravens lost to the steelers 3 times last year. also, they barely beat the cassel-less and flowers-less chiefs in their home opener.


I would agree with you if the Steelers hadn't already lost twice.

But nothing matters much right now. In December, no one remembers where teams were at the end of September.

Mama Hip Rockets
10-02-2009, 09:16 PM
I would agree with you if the Steelers hadn't already lost twice.

But nothing matters much right now. In December, no one remembers where teams were at the end of September.

true. but when polamalu comes back, steelers will stop this losing garbage.

Skip Towne
10-02-2009, 10:06 PM
Thanks for going for Spygate after only two pages. Saves me the trouble of reading anything else that spews forth from your douchebag lips.

You are the dochebag, troll

Marcellus
10-02-2009, 10:10 PM
true. but when polamalu comes back, steelers will stop this losing garbage.

Baltimore still looks better, they can run the ball, stop the run better and actually have a good QB for once. They just need some WR.

Reaper16
10-02-2009, 11:24 PM
I never said that. But what I was refuting was the post that seemed to say the Giants and Ravens are where they are today--and that the Patriots are declining--because the Giants and Ravens draft better than the Patriots. And that supposition is utter bullshit in all facets.
Utter bullshit? Nope.

Psyko Tek
10-03-2009, 02:24 AM
In this decade:

Ravens: one SB.

Giants: one lucky-ass SB.

Patriots: three SBs, should've been four if they hadn't colossally choked.

And Pats drafting seems to be working out okay. Brady, Seymour, Wilfork, Mayo... sure, they misfire on a bunch, who doesn't? But they make smart FA pickups and develop low-round talent, too, so it balances out.

they didn't choke
they were strangled
I watched that game and the giants were hungrier
and meaner
and

better

Pioli Zombie
10-03-2009, 05:42 AM
they didn't choke
they were strangled
I watched that game and the giants were hungrier
and meaner
and

better
Yes, they utterly destroyed them 17-14 because a WR made the play of his life.
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