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View Full Version : Football Sparano's thoughts on Thigpen


NIUhuskies
10-02-2009, 04:01 PM
didnt see this posted yet...sorry if i missed it

(On if he, Bill Parcells, and Jeff Ireland saw something they especially liked in QB Tyler Thigpen) - "Yes, I think all three of us did. In preparation for Kansas City last year, obviously you're doing your film work, but I watched a bunch of tape on him prior to that. I don't really know what Bill and Jeff watched one way or the other. But in that week - I know they spent a lot of time in the last couple days watching a lot of tape. From my end, it was more the preparation week getting ready to play Kansas City and see what he could do there, and then what he did during the course of that ballgame and so on. I think that you look at him, and when he got the opportunity, I believe Brodie Croyle went down, and he got the opportunity to play and started a little bit slow. But then all-of-a-sudden - I want to say it was against the Jets - [he] had a really good ballgame against the Jets. Had a high percentage of completions and then it just started to continue to get better and better."

(On Thigpen's mobility) - "I like his mobility, I like his arm strength, really smart kid. Tough kid, tough competitor, a lot along the lines of the three quarterbacks that we had. You could certainly say that about Chad Pennington, certainly could say that about Henne, and about Pat White. I think those are all qualities that they have."

(On how similar the Dolphins offense is to Kansas City's and how long it should take Thigpen to assimilate into the offense) - "I would say that this offense is about 65/70% similar. I would think formationally we're pretty similar, how we call our protections are pretty similar. Just that Todd [Haley] and I have been together, maybe when Todd went to Arizona and he was with Kenny [Whisenhunt], that was a little different, but Kenny fell from a similar tree there too and had some of that background with the Jets and some of those people. I think it's similar, not completely. So I would say it's going to help speed up the amount of time that it takes to prepare him."

(On where Thigpen is on the depth chart) - "He's third right now. I don't know where that will be when we get to game day, we'll see. And I wouldn't tell you [laughter]."

http://www.miamidolphins.com/news/miami-dolphins-transcripts-93009

chiefs1111
10-02-2009, 04:14 PM
Tyler will be playing in the UFL or the In door football league soon enough

jAZ
10-02-2009, 04:15 PM
Good luck to them both.

El Chapo
10-02-2009, 04:17 PM
Thigpen = Tobin Rote II

T-post Tom
10-02-2009, 04:45 PM
Phins - to the ship! :drool:

Halfcan
10-02-2009, 04:47 PM
Miami's offense is similar??

You mean they run it up the middle nonstop and throw 2 yard passes when they need 17 yards??

yikes

Red Coater
10-02-2009, 04:53 PM
he will be a star. just watch and see. why cause that would be our luck." Gannon"

LaChapelle
10-02-2009, 04:54 PM
The Fins WRs will be hung out to dry. Oh wait they don't have any.

chiefzilla1501
10-02-2009, 04:59 PM
Tyler will be playing in the UFL or the In door football league soon enough

I'll never ever understand why so many Chiefs' fans hate Thigpen. It's the most head-scratching thing I've ever seen in my years as a fan.

Parcells isn't a genius. But he obviously thought Thigpen was good enough to justify trading for the guy. So much for the theory around this board that if the Chiefs cut him, nobody would ever want him.

The Chiefs made the right move in trading him, but it sucks for him that he was hated for no apparent reason at all.

TrickyNicky
10-02-2009, 05:00 PM
Tyler Thigpen is like a white Quincy Carter without the drug problems. Except Quincy has actually played in a meaningful game.

kstater
10-02-2009, 05:15 PM
I'll never ever understand why so many Chiefs' fans hate Thigpen. It's the most head-scratching thing I've ever seen in my years as a fan.

Parcells isn't a genius. But he obviously thought Thigpen was good enough to justify trading for the guy. So much for the theory around this board that if the Chiefs cut him, nobody would ever want him.

The Chiefs made the right move in trading him, but it sucks for him that he was hated for no apparent reason at all.

Being an inaccurate one trick pony doesn't garner a lot of respect.

chiefzilla1501
10-02-2009, 05:19 PM
Being an inaccurate one trick pony doesn't garner a lot of respect.

Apparently it warranted enough respect in Jacksonville and Miami, probably more teams if he was actually cut. That's the point to be made. People continue to insist that no team would ever want him. And yet, Miami chose to trade draft picks for him instead of picking up other QBs like O'Connell or Andrew Walter who are still on the market.

He's not as good as some of the homers will have you believe. But it's amazing to me how many are so convinced that nobody in the NFL thinks he's of any value. They were obviously proven wrong this week.

Tiger's Fan
10-02-2009, 05:37 PM
Apparently it warranted enough respect in Jacksonville and Miami, probably more teams if he was actually cut. That's the point to be made. People continue to insist that no team would ever want him. And yet, Miami chose to trade draft picks for him instead of picking up other QBs like O'Connell or Andrew Walter who are still on the market.

He's not as good as some of the homers will have you believe. But it's amazing to me how many are so convinced that nobody in the NFL thinks he's of any value. They were obviously proven wrong this week.

If Pennington is still upright, it's all a moot point, and Thigpen is still sitting at the end of the bench. He just changed benches is all. He'll stay there too if they ever ask him to throw the ball downfield.

You can't fix horrible accuracy, no matter how hard that lil engine tries to make it up THAT hill.

Brock
10-02-2009, 05:38 PM
It wouldn't surprise me to see Miami use him on some of their gimmick stuff.

chiefzilla1501
10-02-2009, 05:53 PM
If Pennington is still upright, it's all a moot point, and Thigpen is still sitting at the end of the bench. He just changed benches is all. He'll stay there too if they ever ask him to throw the ball downfield.

You can't fix horrible accuracy, no matter how hard that lil engine tries to make it up THAT hill.

You can fix accuracy if you dedicate yourself to relentlessly improving your mechanics. That's what Eli Manning did. And Thigpen has a lot of very fixable mechanical problems. He seems to short-arm the ball a bit and his footwork looks pretty sloppy. That's something you can teach with repetition.

In his defense, he's never had a real QBs coach to hammer that into his head. He had Dick Curl and then... crickets... nobody under Haley.

I have no idea if he'll ever fix those problems. My point has always been that we know he has the work ethic to try, and we know that with his speed he doesn't ever have to be Drew Brees accurate to have some success. As I've pointed out many times, the one thing he has that you absolutely cannot coach is the right attitude and I still contend that the majority of QBs who failed did so because they either didn't have the right work ethic, the right confidence/swagger, the right ability to brush off mistakes, or the ability to lead in a way that teammates respond to you. He's on Miami, so I wouldn't say that I'm rooting for him. But he seems like a good kid, so I do wish him success.

Besides, I'm not even arguing that he'll ever be a great quarterback. I'm arguing that there's a very good chance he improves that he's still in this league 5 years from now, whether as a marginal starter or a quality backup or even as a solid third stringer.

Hog's Gone Fishin
10-02-2009, 06:23 PM
Thigpen was basically a rookie last year and under Herm Edwards at that. I think he has more potential than peopls give him credit for. Also we'll NEVER have a good performing quarterback untill they don't have to run foe their live as soon as the ball is snapped.

boogblaster
10-02-2009, 08:05 PM
Yea bench warmer and some of their wild-cat shit ...

MahiMike
10-02-2009, 08:41 PM
It wouldn't surprise me to see Miami use him on some of their gimmick stuff.

That's what I was thinking. They could have Henne throw to Pat White, who throws it to Thigpen who takes off scrambling!

RJ
10-02-2009, 08:49 PM
That's what I was thinking. They could have Henne throw to Pat White, who throws it to Thigpen who takes off scrambling!


And then hands it off to Ted Ginn on a reverse!

Hammock Parties
10-03-2009, 04:08 AM
You can fix accuracy

No you can't.

milkman
10-03-2009, 07:12 AM
You can fix accuracy

Brian Billick, on Mike and Mike in the Morning, speaking about a QB's inaccuracy a little more than a week ago said that there are some things you can do, but in the end, it is what it is, and there's really not much you can do to improve it.

Reerun_KC
10-03-2009, 07:27 AM
Apparently it warranted enough respect in Jacksonville and Miami, probably more teams if he was actually cut. That's the point to be made. People continue to insist that no team would ever want him. And yet, Miami chose to trade draft picks for him instead of picking up other QBs like O'Connell or Andrew Walter who are still on the market.

He's not as good as some of the homers will have you believe. But it's amazing to me how many are so convinced that nobody in the NFL thinks he's of any value. They were obviously proven wrong this week.

Which makes Pioli a fucking GOD for pulling that off!!!!!!!!!!!

chiefzilla1501
10-03-2009, 09:18 AM
Brian Billick, on Mike and Mike in the Morning, speaking about a QB's inaccuracy a little more than a week ago said that there are some things you can do, but in the end, it is what it is, and there's really not much you can do to improve it.

But the distinction is that most QBs are inaccurate because they're just inaccurate by nature. A lot of Thigpen's inaccuracy is due to fundamental flaws. When I watch him pass, the two things that seem to stick out is that he tends to short-arm the ball and his footwork is all messed up. The thing about mechanics is it's all about muscle memory. You can teach it with a lot of repetition.

This was an interesting article:
http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:KINnV88wd-AJ:texas.scout.com/2/886708.html+can+quarterbacks+be+taught+accuracy&cd=16&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
I read an article about Mike Martz a few months ago where he was so huge on the idea of balance. There's a lot written about arm angles too. Those are two things Thigpen seems to do very poorly. He seems a bit off balanced and that's especially true when he's throwing on the run or throwing without a pocket.

So I disagree with you here. Accuracy can be taught IF AND ONLY IF you have major flaws in technique leading to inaccuracy. Thigpen has never had access to good quarterbacks coaching where they insist on repetition and fundamentals. I am very interested to see how he progresses in Miami. He will be coached by David Lee, the same guy who coached Tony Romo. I have always believed Romo and Thigpen were very similar quarterbacks when it comes to their technique.

burt
10-03-2009, 09:29 AM
Thigpen was basically a rookie last year and under Herm Edwards at that. I think he has more potential than peopls give him credit for. Also we'll NEVER have a good performing quarterback untill they don't have to run foe their live as soon as the ball is snapped.

I agree....I think Thig will be a starter somewhere...and I believe that he will excell!

milkman
10-03-2009, 09:32 AM
But the distinction is that most QBs are inaccurate because they're just inaccurate by nature. A lot of Thigpen's inaccuracy is due to fundamental flaws. When I watch him pass, the two things that seem to stick out is that he tends to short-arm the ball and his footwork is all messed up. The thing about mechanics is it's all about muscle memory. You can teach it with a lot of repetition.

This was an interesting article:
http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:KINnV88wd-AJ:texas.scout.com/2/886708.html+can+quarterbacks+be+taught+accuracy&cd=16&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
I read an article about Mike Martz a few months ago where he was so huge on the idea of balance. There's a lot written about arm angles too. Those are two things Thigpen seems to do very poorly. He seems a bit off balanced and that's especially true when he's throwing on the run or throwing without a pocket.

So I disagree with you here. Accuracy can be taught IF AND ONLY IF you have major flaws in technique leading to inaccuracy. Thigpen has never had access to good quarterbacks coaching where they insist on repetition and fundamentals. I am very interested to see how he progresses in Miami. He will be coached by David Lee, the same guy who coached Tony Romo. I have always believed Romo and Thigpen were very similar quarterbacks when it comes to their technique.

Tony Romo is overrated, and isn't what I would call an accurate QB.

And this from the article seems to suggest that what Billick stated is true.

A: First, if a quarterback isn’t accurate, he has a hard time being very good. It doesn’t matter what his arm is like or what his technique is like if he isn’t accurate. You have guys that have great technique, but then you have guys that have the ability to get the ball where it needs to

It sounds as though he's saying you can improve accuracy, however it also implies that some QBs simply can't get the ball where it needs to go.

Essentially, it is what it is.

chiefzilla1501
10-03-2009, 10:10 AM
Tony Romo is overrated, and isn't what I would call an accurate QB.

And this from the article seems to suggest that what Billick stated is true.



It sounds as though he's saying you can improve accuracy, however it also implies that some QBs simply can't get the ball where it needs to go.

Essentially, it is what it is.

Agree to disagree. As good of a coach as Billick was, he's not exactly the best guy to talk to when it comes to quarterbacks. Martz and Holmgren are two coaches I look at as QB gurus. As I've said before, the one thing that sticks out about Martz quarterbacks is that fundamentally, they all look completely identical. That's not a coincidence. As for Holmgren, everywhere he's gone his QBs have been razor-sharp in accuracy. He even got Seneca Wallace to become comfortable as a pocket passer. Holmgren and Martz believe that QBs can become better through mental and technical training, and I tend to believe them way before I'd believe Billick.

Or how about Donovan McNabb? While he's not pinpoint accurate, the difference between early McNabb to McNabb today in terms of accuracy is night and day.

I'm not saying Thigpen will ever develop pinpoint accuracy. But given that so many of his mistakes are due to inconsistent technique, how can you deny that his accuracy won't improve if he becomes consistent with good technique? He sails a lot of balls because his arm angles are inconsistent--so train his muscle memory to work consistently with the same exact angle. He often doesn't plant into his throws because his footwork is messed up--so train him through repetition with the right footwork and balance. He can't take snaps under center largely because of footwork, so train him to do that?

Is it really that much of a stretch to say that improving his footwork, arm angle consistency, and balance from horrendous to good will improve his accuracy? I think with a lot of work on consistent technique, he could easily become a very good backup / fringe starter.

milkman
10-03-2009, 10:26 AM
Agree to disagree. As good of a coach as Billick was, he's not exactly the best guy to talk to when it comes to quarterbacks. Martz and Holmgren are two coaches I look at as QB gurus. As I've said before, the one thing that sticks out about Martz quarterbacks is that fundamentally, they all look completely identical. That's not a coincidence. As for Holmgren, everywhere he's gone his QBs have been razor-sharp in accuracy. He even got Seneca Wallace to become comfortable as a pocket passer. Holmgren and Martz believe that QBs can become better through mental and technical training, and I tend to believe them way before I'd believe Billick.

Or how about Donovan McNabb? While he's not pinpoint accurate, the difference between early McNabb to McNabb today in terms of accuracy is night and day.

I'm not saying Thigpen will ever develop pinpoint accuracy. But given that so many of his mistakes are due to inconsistent technique, how can you deny that his accuracy won't improve if he becomes consistent with good technique? He sails a lot of balls because his arm angles are inconsistent--so train his muscle memory to work consistently with the same exact angle. He often doesn't plant into his throws because his footwork is messed up--so train him through repetition with the right footwork and balance. He can't take snaps under center largely because of footwork, so train him to do that?

Is it really that much of a stretch to say that improving his footwork, arm angle consistency, and balance from horrendous to good will improve his accuracy? I think with a lot of work on consistent technique, he could easily become a very good backup / fringe starter.

I'm not saying that his accuracy can't be improved through proper technique.

I am saying, however, that he's never going to be as accurate as a guy like Drew Brees.

He can, with work, get the ball in the neighborhood he wants to get it in more consistently, but he isn't likely to consistently get it into the yard he's looking to hit.

chiefzilla1501
10-03-2009, 10:37 AM
I'm not saying that his accuracy can't be improved through proper technique.

I am saying, however, that he's never going to be as accurate as a guy like Drew Brees.

He can, with work, get the ball in the neighborhood he wants to get it in more consistently, but he isn't likely to consistently get it into the yard he's looking to hit.

No, I 100% agree with this. I just disagree with Billick's assessment that accuracy can't be taught. Pinpoint accuracy is difficult to teach, but improving accuracy is very easy to improve upon if the QB has fundamental problems.

I will never say he has Warner/Brees potential. I would be shocked if he ever became a QB to lead an offense. I'm just arguing against those who believe he doesn't belong in the NFL and will never improve. I think with David Lee as a QBs coach, he has a very good chance to become a quality backup like Seneca Wallace or a fringe starter like Tony Romo. I believe he has a far better chance of being in the league 5 years from now than Matt Gutierrez does. And I certainly think there are some situations, like Minnesota, where he could actually develop over time into a guy who can lead an effective offense that relies heavily on the running game.

Sure-Oz
10-03-2009, 10:39 AM
Thigpen will definetly have a greater career than jafattas russell, but russell will have the $$$$

milkman
10-03-2009, 10:44 AM
No, I 100% agree with this. I just disagree with Billick's assessment that accuracy can't be taught. Pinpoint accuracy is difficult to teach, but improving accuracy is very easy to improve upon if the QB has fundamental problems.

I will never say he has Warner/Brees potential. I would be shocked if he ever became a QB to lead an offense. I'm just arguing against those who believe he doesn't belong in the NFL and will never improve. I think with David Lee as a QBs coach, he has a very good chance to become a quality backup like Seneca Wallace or a fringe starter like Tony Romo. I believe he has a far better chance of being in the league 5 years from now than Matt Gutierrez does. And I certainly think there are some situations, like Minnesota, where he could actually develop over time into a guy who can lead an effective offense that relies heavily on the running game.

Billick did say that there are things that you can do, so he seems to be saying exactly what you, and I, are saying.

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-03-2009, 12:31 PM
If you want to understand how irrelevant Miami's wildcat is regardless of who's throwing, re-watch Phins/Colts.
Miami works their gimmick for three quarters and the franchise QB for the Colts nullifies all that work in one.

Easy 6
10-03-2009, 06:03 PM
If you want to understand how irrelevant Miami's wildcat is regardless of who's throwing, re-watch Phins/Colts.
Miami works their gimmick for three quarters and the franchise QB for the Colts nullifies all that work in one.

Isnt it a bit too early to say the wildcat is irrelevant? despite the outcome of that game, Miami stampeded through the Colts like a herd of buffalo, something like 220-240yds(?), using plenty of the cat.

The fins seem dead set on the cat not being a passing fad for them, drafting White, looking at Thigs, using it very consistently. They've already started a mini-revolution with it, seems like every other team is using it lately.

Anyway, i'm just glad that Thigs gets a chance to go somewhere that might see something they can use. After all, even you gotta admit, he played admirably for a guy in his shoes, for a team that was crumbling around him like an LA skyscraper in '2012'.

He had a solid td-pick ratio & did have his moments. He's not what i wanted/want here...but he was a Chief that gave his best (insert joke) & even visited the Planet apparently, thats cool in my book.

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-03-2009, 09:41 PM
Isnt it a bit too early to say the wildcat is irrelevant? despite the outcome of that game, Miami stampeded through the Colts like a herd of buffalo, something like 220-240yds(?), using plenty of the cat.

The fins seem dead set on the cat not being a passing fad for them, drafting White, looking at Thigs, using it very consistently. They've already started a mini-revolution with it, seems like every other team is using it lately.

Anyway, i'm just glad that Thigs gets a chance to go somewhere that might see something they can use. After all, even you gotta admit, he played admirably for a guy in his shoes, for a team that was crumbling around him like an LA skyscraper in '2012'.

He had a solid td-pick ratio & did have his moments. He's not what i wanted/want here...but he was a Chief that gave his best (insert joke) & even visited the Planet apparently, thats cool in my book.


Email our exchange to Petro on Monday; he'll probably take you out for lunch and blow job.

Easy 6
10-03-2009, 10:07 PM
Email our exchange to Petro on Monday; he'll probably take you out for lunch and blow job.

Does he have a nice car?, does he swallow?

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-03-2009, 10:51 PM
Does he have a nice car?, does he swallow?

Yeah, but the scratchy goatee kinda' negates the overall experience.

milkman
10-03-2009, 11:34 PM
Email our exchange to Petro on Monday; he'll probably take you out for lunch and blow job.

I don't think the Wildcat is irrelevent so much as the fact that the game between the Dolphins and Colts further illustrates the fact that QB is far and away the most important position in football.

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-04-2009, 04:57 AM
I don't think the Wildcat is irrelevent so much as the fact that the game between the Dolphins and Colts further illustrates the fact that QB is far and away the most important position in football.

Combination of the two, and that's the point.

Consistent1
10-04-2009, 06:29 AM
Boomer Grigsby Mad-Dog package. the Texans needed it, they aren't the same without. If he hadn't gotten hurt, he would be a starter in this league. It's not just a gimmick package.