Gretz: Ego! What Ego? … Monday Cup O’Chiefs

[Tribal Warfare]

Ego! What Ego? … Monday Cup O’Chiefs (http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/ego-what-ego-%E2%80%A6-monday-cup-o%E2%80%99chiefs.html)
October 6, 2009 - Bob Gretz |

Trying to decipher the meaning behind some of the things football players say is like trying to make sense of some speech by a politician out of Washington.

What they say doesn’t always mean what they mean.

When Larry Johnson kept using the word “ego” to answer questions in the Chiefs post-game locker room on Sunday, he provided no interpretation, no cliff notes, no explanation. The question that drew his first answer of ego was simple: What’s the difference between the Giants team that just registered a fourth victory on the ‘09 season and the Chiefs, who had fallen to 0-4?

Now, there are those in the media business who decided that Johnson was talking about his head coach when he used the word ego. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn’t. L.J. wasn’t providing any more explanations on Monday. So the speculation continued amongst the pundits and fans.

There’s one guy who could care less and that’s the head coach. Todd Haley is winless in his first stab at being a head coach: a 0-4 pre-season and a 0-4 start to the regular season.

But Haley remains steadfast in his beliefs about how the Chiefs will be built. A four-game losing streak has not knocked him off the tracks. He knows only one thing to do: continue to work, in fact work even harder to turn the season around.

“I coach the way I coach and we are going to stay the course,” Haley said on Monday. “We are going to continue to have better and better practices. We are going to continue to have that carry over more to the games than it has. I thought last week was probably our best week of practice to date, so that’s all we can do. That’s all we can control.

“These are difficult times. It’s rough; no one said it was going to be easy. I think the players understand that. They understand the Dallas Cowboys are coming to town in six days and we are playing a game and we have to figure out a way to win.

“We’ll be OK. We’ll be able to stay the course here.”

If anybody is expecting big changes with Haley and how he runs his operation, then think again. There are quite a few critics who believe the roster shuffle that goes down each week, and the multiple changes in who plays and who does not, hurts the team’s continuity.

Haley isn’t buying that excuse.

“There are always going to be things that mess with your continuity,” Haley said, citing injuries as one of those factors. “In this case we are trying to find the guys that give us the best chance to win. You ask me would I go with a guy that gives you less of a chance to win over somebody who gives us a better chance to win for the continuity factor? I’m going to put in the guy that gives you the best chance to win.”

When a coach is 0-4 in his rookie season, he’s methods are going to be placed under a microscope, analyzed and dissected. His decisions are going to be second guessed to death. His words are going to be parsed for value and intent.

Haley understands that, and he’s stood up on occasion and admitted mistakes. He’s done that with his players. He’s even done that with the media. Like any rookie player, every day is a learning experience for the rookie head coach.

“It’s a process and I’d like to think that I’ve learned a ton after four games and hopefully I can use to better this team,” Haley said. “There’s a saying I use all the time: Don’t complain, don’t explain, find solutions. I was taught that a long time ago. I try to follow it. I’m not going to make excuses, we just have to find solutions, find ways to get better and hopefully those experiences we’ve been through to this point will allow us to get better.

“My ego isn’t a factor. I’ll stand up and apologize. I want to get better so I can help this team be its best.”

There’s that ego word again? Does Haley believe Johnson’s use of the word was directed at him?

“You’ll have to ask him,” Haley said. “I wasn’t aware of it until now.”

What Haley needs, what the Chiefs need as a team, what the Chiefs Nation needs is something good to happen with this team. Winning is the only salve that works for any athlete or team.

“I know from past history, if we can get something positive to happen and get a little confidence, and go forward that way, that’s our only chance for success,” Haley said. “If we think about what happened in the past and get caught up in it, and compare it to other times it won’t work.

“It’s right now, at this day and time; we have to stay in the present tense, trying to get better each and every day. I think it’s critical that we keep forging ahead and keep doing the things that give us the best chance to win.”

ELI MANNING LEFT ARROWHEAD WITH A BUM FOOT

Turns out that when Eli Manning left Sunday’s Giants-Chiefs game with an injury to his right heel, the New York quarterback was suffering from plantar fasciitis. An MRI showed the problem on Monday morning.

Plantar fasciitis is an irritation and swelling of the thick tissue on the bottom of the foot. The most common complaint is pain in the bottom of the heel, which is exactly what Manning has.

Speaking on a weekly radio appearance that he does in New York, Manning said “My gut feeling always is that I’m gonna play” against the Raiders this Sunday at the Meadowlands.

Manning said the Giants team physician Dr. Russell Warren, told him he could play this weekend as long as he could tolerate the pain.

“They said it’s not as serious an injury as they’ve seen in the before as far as the whole foot hurting.” Manning said. “It’s just a portion of it.

“I’m not real nervous about it. I’ve always been a pretty quick healer, I’m looking forward to tomorrow and seeing how it feels, hopefully it will feel better.’

SIGNINGS, INJURIES OF NOTE & MOVEMENT AROUND THE LEAGUE

* BUCCANEERS – released K Mike Nugent and CB Marcus Hamilton; signed K Shane Andrus.
* COWBOYS – released RB Chauncey Washington.
* GIANTS – QB Eli Manning has plantar fasciitis in his right foot and whether he’ll play against the Raiders will depend on his threshold level for dealing with pain.
* LIONS – placed WR Adam Jennings on the injured-reserve list (ankle); claimed S Marvin White on waivers.
* RAIDERS – RB Darren McFadden will miss two to four weeks with an injury to his right knee (meniscus).
* RAVENS – placed LB Brendon Ayanbadejo on the injured-reserve list (quad); signed LB Prescott Burgess.
* SEAHAWKS – released OT Kyle Williams; re-signed FB Justin Griffith.
* STEELERS – released RB Isaac Redman; re-signed DL Nick Eason.

FROM THE PAGES OF CHIEFS HISTORY

On October 6, 1963, the Chiefs beat the Houston Oilers 28-7 in front of 27,801 at Municipal Stadium. On an Indian summer day with temperatures reaching 90 degrees, QB Len Dawson was hot himself. Dawson threw four touchdown passes against the Houston defense as the Chiefs dominated this game from start to finish. Dawson threw a pair of scoring passes to TE Fred Arbanas from four and 14 yards. He connected with WR Chris Burford for a 69-yard score and then WR Frank Jackson for 12 yards and a TD. On the day, Dawson was 14 of 22 for 225 yards with no interceptions. The KC defense made life miserable for Oilers QB George Blanda as they grabbed four interceptions. S Bobby Hunt, LB E.J. Holub, S Johnny Robinson and CB Duane Wood got the picks.

On October 6, 1974, the Chiefs lost 17-14 to the Denver Broncos in front of a crowd of 67,298 at Arrowhead Stadium. The KC offense had problems against the Denver defense, gaining just 170 yards on the afternoon. The only offensive TD was a one-yard run by RB Willie Ellison. The Chiefs other score came on a 28-yard interception return by LB Bobby Bell. That gave KC a 14-3 lead at half-time. But the Broncos got a pair of scoring runs from rookie RB Jon Keyworth to grab the victory.

On October 6, 1985, the Chiefs lost to the Raiders 19-10 at the Los Angeles Coliseum. The KC defense had problems handling Raiders RB Marcus Allen, who ran for 126 yards on 29 carries and caught three passes for another 24 yards of offense. The Chiefs only TD of the game came on a 41-yard pass from QB Bill Kenney to WR Anthony Hancock. The Raiders got five sacks and interceptions of Kenney. The Chiefs had three sacks, two from DE Mike Bell and one from DE Art Still.

SAY HAPPY BIRTHDAY …

Born on October 6, 1960 in Mansfield, Louisiana was CB Albert Lewis. He was a third-round choice in the 1983 NFL Draft out of Grambling. Lewis played 11 seasons in Kansas City (1983-93), appearing in 150 games with 128 starts on the corner. He had 38 interceptions with the Chiefs, along with 555 total tackles and 4.5 sacks. Lewis was one of football’s great punt blockers, getting 10 during his career with the Chiefs. A four-time Pro Bowler, Lewis was the Chiefs MVP for the 1986 season and was named to the Chiefs 25-year All-Time team. He was inducted into the Chiefs Hall of Fame in 2007. Lewis finished his career with five seasons playing for the Raiders. His career totals were 225 games, 42 interceptions, 12.5 sacks. At the age of 38, he returned an interception for the Raiders 74 yards for a touchdown.

Born on October 6, 1952 in Los Angeles was LB Cal Peterson. He joined the Chiefs in 1979, after previously playing three seasons in the league with the Cowboys and Bucs. Peterson spent three seasons with the team (1979-81), appearing in 43 games with 14 starts. Most of his work was done on special teams.

Born on October 6, 1977 in New Orleans was WR Sylvester Morris. He was a first-round choice in the 2000 NFL Draft out of Jackson State. Morris played in 15 games that rookie season, catching 48 passes for 678 yards and three touchdown catches. After that ‘00 season, a series of knee injuries kept him off the field and ended his career.

Born on October 6, 1966 in Augusta, Georgia was TE Jimmie Johnson. He joined the Chiefs in 1994, after spending five seasons in the league with the Redskins and Lions. Johnson played in seven games that season for the Chiefs, and caught two passes for seven yards. He finished his career with four seasons playing for the Eagles.

[Hammock Parties]

The Giants would be fools not to rest Eli.

The hefty lefty could put up a 20-3 win against the Raiders.

http://asthecroweflies.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/lorenzen-giants.jpg

[Reerun_KC]

I cant wait until all the worthless crybaby players are gone...

[Buehler445]

Hmmmm. Gretz says a lot without saying...anything. I guess he had to weigh in on it. For whatever reason.

McFadden is out for the Faid. That's bad news for them.
Posted via Mobile Device

[wild1]

I cant wait until all the worthless crybaby players are gone...

this

[The Franchise]

The Giants would be fools not to rest Eli.

The hefty lefty could put up a 20-3 win against the Raiders.

http://asthecroweflies.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/lorenzen-giants.jpg

To bad David Carr is their backup.

[Hammock Parties]

To bad David Carr is their backup.

I know...just saying the hefty lefty could fuck up the Raiders. That's how bad they are.

[Fish]

Striking...

“These are difficult times. It’s rough; no one said it was going to be easy. I think the players understand that.

Rebuilding. Get over it!

“We’ll be OK. We’ll be able to stay the course here.”

It's going to be OOOOOOOKKKKKKK.......

[Marcellus]

Striking...

No, not really. Think what you want though.

[philfree]

"Turns out that when Eli Manning left Sunday’s Giants-Chiefs game with an injury to his right heel, the New York quarterback was suffering from plantar fasciitis. An MRI showed the problem on Monday morning."

I've been suffering from this for a year and a half. It don't go away in a week. For a year and a half before my feet every hit the floor in the morning I put on shoes with inserts. I've had shoes on for a year and a half except for when I sleep or go swimming. It's taken this long and they still are not completely healed. Close. Some peole say it never goes completely away but I've felt good enough that the other day I said to my daughter. "I'm living on the edge baby. Look no shoes!" Makes me think the Giants are not telling the truth about Eli's foot.


PhilFree:arrow:

[Reerun_KC]

Striking...

ROFL

Those guys!!!!

ROFL

[morphius]

The Giants would be fools not to rest Eli.

The hefty lefty could put up a 20-3 win against the Raiders.

http://asthecroweflies.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/lorenzen-giants.jpg
Don't underestimate the will of a Manning to pad his stats.

[Mr. Plow]

I cant wait until all the worthless crybaby players are gone...


I'm looking forward to the LJ-less Chiefs too.

[RealSNR]

Striking...Seriously? He's supposed to give the exact opposite?

"God damn it, we've got a team full of Pro Bowlers here and we're not winning any games. What the hell is going on?"

Or even better,

"My coaching strategies just haven't been working. Maybe I'll go the touchy-feely approach this week and see if that makes us any better."

[Fish]

Seriously? He's supposed to give the exact opposite?

"God damn it, we've got a team full of Pro Bowlers here and we're not winning any games. What the hell is going on?"

Or even better,

"My coaching strategies just haven't been working. Maybe I'll go the touchy-feely approach this week and see if that makes us any better."

No not in the least. I'm just pointing out that when Herm said nearly the same thing, people wanted to lop off his head and mount it on an overpass on I-70. The hypocrisy is still being completely ignored. Haley makes the same mistakes and says the same things and it's a non-topic.

[Mr. Plow]

No not in the least. I'm just pointing out that when Herm said nearly the same thing, people wanted to lop off his head and mount it on an overpass on I-70. The hypocrisy is still being completely ignored. Haley makes the same mistakes and says the same things and it's a non-topic.

At least for me, when Herm was saying essentially the same thing, I could easily see the team getting worse week by week - not getting better. And after 3 years, the team continued to get worse. Right now, I don't know what we've got. I haven't seen much improvement as of yet - but we are only 4 games in.

[shaneo69]

SlyMo is 32? Holy sh*t, time flies when your team sucks...

[Reerun_KC]

No not in the least. I'm just pointing out that when Herm said nearly the same thing, people wanted to lop off his head and mount it on an overpass on I-70. The hypocrisy is still being completely ignored. Haley makes the same mistakes and says the same things and it's a non-topic.

Yep and it always will be...

Haley at least proved himself at an OC in the league. What has Herm EVER proved other than Fail???

Haley deserves just as much time as you gave Herm, if not more.. Haley EARNED his chance, Herm was GIVEN a chance and failed miserably!

[DaneMcCloud]

Yep and it always will be...

Haley at least proved himself at an OC in the league. What has Herm EVER proved other than Fail???

Dude, ONE YEAR. He didn't even call the plays in 2007.

I'm all for giving Haley three years but IMO, his past isn't exactly filled with accolades.

[RealSNR]

Yep and it always will be...

Haley at least proved himself at an OC in the league. What has Herm EVER proved other than Fail???

Haley deserves just as much time as you gave Herm, if not more.. Haley EARNED his chance, Herm was GIVEN a chance and failed miserably!Herm HAS won in the playoffs.

Just sayin...

[LaChapelle]

It's a tough time to have a bad team. The economy sucks, peoples savings and retirement plans took a beating. All that hate has to go somewhere.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yep and it always will be...

Haley at least proved himself at an OC in the league. What has Herm EVER proved other than Fail???

Haley deserves just as much time as you gave Herm, if not more.. Haley EARNED his chance, Herm was GIVEN a chance and failed miserably!

God, you're an idiot.

There's one guy you mentioned that was a HC for 5 years prior to coming here, made playoff appearances in 3 of those 5 years, and won 2 playoff games.

There's another guy you mentioned who spent the majority of his career as a position coach, then 2 years as an OC, 1 of which he didn't even call plays.

I think you're a bit confused over who EARNED a chance, and who's been GIVEN a chance.

[Fish]

Yep and it always will be...

Haley at least proved himself at an OC in the league. What has Herm EVER proved other than Fail???

Haley deserves just as much time as you gave Herm, if not more.. Haley EARNED his chance, Herm was GIVEN a chance and failed miserably!

Yeah, I wouldn't expect anything different from you.

But Haley isn't the experienced OC you claim him to be. Herm has coached more teams to the playoff at this point. I don't think Haley has earned anything, and I think he's fortunate to be where he is.

I do agree that Haley deserves just as much time as Herm. I'm not arguing otherwise. I don't want him fired, despite my criticism of him. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the situation. Haley is suffering from the same mistakes that Herm did, and justifying it the same way. People claimed we would be better due to coaching alone, and that clearly hasn't been the case at all.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Yep and it always will be...

Haley at least proved himself at an OC in the league. What has Herm EVER proved other than Fail???

Haley deserves just as much time as you gave Herm, if not more.. Haley EARNED his chance, Herm was GIVEN a chance and failed miserably!

Herm took a team to the playoffs on his own.

Haley was the OC on a 9-7 team that got hot.

[Reerun_KC]

Herm HAS won in the playoffs.

Just sayin...

ROFL

Yeah I forgot he out Marty, Marty in one of the most embarrasing playoff games in NFL history...

Oh and he did beat the Colts one time...

Thanks for correcting me...

[Reerun_KC]

God, you're an idiot.

There's one guy you mentioned that was a HC for 5 years prior to coming here, made playoff appearances in 3 of those 5 years, and won 2 playoff games.

There's another guy you mentioned who spent the majority of his career as a position coach, then 2 years as an OC, 1 of which he didn't even call plays.

I think you're a bit confused over who EARNED a chance, and who's been GIVEN a chance.

Speaking of that? OTWP? How did Herm get his HC job? My guess is from his DC days in Tampa?

[Reerun_KC]

Yeah, I wouldn't expect anything different from you.

But Haley isn't the experienced OC you claim him to be. Herm has coached more teams to the playoff at this point. I don't think Haley has earned anything, and I think he's fortunate to be where he is.

I do agree that Haley deserves just as much time as Herm. I'm not arguing otherwise. I don't want him fired, despite my criticism of him. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the situation. Haley is suffering from the same mistakes that Herm did, and justifying it the same way. People claimed we would be better due to coaching alone, and that clearly hasn't been the case at all.

Just as I wouldnt expect anything different from you.... :D

[OnTheWarpath15]

Speaking of that? OTWP? How did Herm get his HC job? My guess is from his DC days in Tampa?

What does that have to do with your comments about him being GIVEN a chance in KANSAS CITY?

It doesn't, and you're moving the goalposts yet again.

[Reerun_KC]

What does that have to do with your comments about him being GIVEN a chance in KANSAS CITY?

It doesn't, and you're moving the goalposts yet again.

I think you and I are on the wrong page here....

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Yep and it always will be...

Haley at least proved himself at an OC in the league. What has Herm EVER proved other than Fail???

Haley deserves just as much time as you gave Herm, if not more.. Haley EARNED his chance, Herm was GIVEN a chance and failed miserably!

Logic doesn't fly here sir.

Herm took a team to the playoffs on his own.

Haley was the OC on a 9-7 team that got hot.

[htismaqe]

Herm took a team to the playoffs on his own.

Haley was the OC on a 9-7 team that got hot.

JFC.

Can we get over the hyperbole?

[Hammock Parties]

I can't believe people are comparing Herm favorably to Haley.

All of you bastards who do that can roast in hell!

[OnTheWarpath15]

I can't believe people are comparing Herm favorably to Haley.

All of you bastards who do that can roast in hell!

Who's doing that?

Please, post quotes.

[Reerun_KC]

Logic doesn't fly here sir.

Herm took a team to the playoffs on his own.

Haley was the OC on a 9-7 team that got hot.

Fair enough.. But Herm also took a 2 franchises and drove them into the ground as well....

We are seeing the fruits of his "own" labor on the fields on Sunday...

[Reerun_KC]

Who's doing that?

Please, post quotes.

:Poke:


YOU!

[OnTheWarpath15]

:Poke:


YOU!

You fucking retard.

I'm not defending Herm. Far from it.

I'm merely pointing out how fucking stupid you are.

You say Herm was given his chance in KC, while Haley earned his, and you're flat-out wrong.

[Hammock Parties]

Who's doing that?

Please, post quotes.

This guy:

Herm took a team to the playoffs on his own.

Haley was the OC on a 9-7 team that got hot.

[Reerun_KC]

You ****ing retard.

I'm not defending Herm. Far from it.

I'm merely pointing out how ****ing stupid you are.

You say Herm was given his chance in KC, while Haley earned his, and you're flat-out wrong.

Your right! I am sorry OTWP, Herm wasnt given a chance in KC...

He was traded for Leon Washington...

Again, I am sorry for being wrong... Please, Please forgive me. I will buy your tickets and airfare for Canton when Herm is enshirned...

[OnTheWarpath15]

Your right! I am sorry OTWP, Herm wasnt given a chance in KC...

He was traded for Leon Washington...

Again, I am sorry for being wrong... Please, Please forgive me. I will buy your tickets and airfare for Canton when Herm is enshirned...

You just can't handle being proven wrong, can you?

Grow a pair, sack up and grow up.

Taking a team to the playoffs 60% of the time, and winning playoff games is going to EARN you another chance to coach in the NFL whether you like it or not.

[Reerun_KC]

You just can't handle being proven wrong, can you?

Grow a pair, sack up and grow up.

Taking a team to the playoffs 60% of the time, and winning playoff games is going to EARN you another chance to coach in the NFL whether you like it or not.

No matter how you look at it... I got you to defend Herm today... :D

BTW, I have been married for 18 years, I get proven wrong every day of the week. Nothing new here! LMAO

[OnTheWarpath15]

No matter how you look at it... I got you to defend Herm today... :D

BTW, I have been married for 18 years, I get proven wrong every day of the week. Nothing new here! LMAO

I'm not defending him, you tard.

I'm saying he earned the chance to coach based on his performance in NY.

I didn't want him here either, but to say he was "given" a chance while Haley "earned" one is fucking ridiculous.

[bowener]

"Turns out that when Eli Manning left Sunday’s Giants-Chiefs game with an injury to his right heel, the New York quarterback was suffering from plantar fasciitis. An MRI showed the problem on Monday morning."

I've been suffering from this for a year and a half. It don't go away in a week. For a year and a half before my feet every hit the floor in the morning I put on shoes with inserts. I've had shoes on for a year and a half except for when I sleep or go swimming. It's taken this long and they still are not completely healed. Close. Some peole say it never goes completely away but I've felt good enough that the other day I said to my daughter. "I'm living on the edge baby. Look no shoes!" Makes me think the Giants are not telling the truth about Eli's foot.


PhilFree:arrow:

Well, the difference between your injury and his injury is that you do not receive daily local injections of pain killers for your heel. This is why he will be able to play. If your daughter gave you a daily shot of lidocaine before you jumped out of bed, Im sure you could stomp around the house without shoes all day long... well for a few hours at least.

[Reerun_KC]

I'm not defending him, you tard.

I'm saying he earned the chance to coach based on his performance in NY.

I didn't want him here either, but to say he was "given" a chance while Haley "earned" one is ****ing ridiculous.

There was no team in their right mind that would of hired Herm after he ran the NYJ's into the ground, let alone trade a pick for him.

IF he earned so much, why isnt he coaching now?

[OnTheWarpath15]

There was no team in their right mind that would of hired Herm after he ran the NYJ's into the ground, let alone trade a pick for him.

IF he earned so much, why isnt he coaching now?

Ran the Jets into the ground?

Are you fucking huffing paint?

They are .500 since his departure, and have had 1 losing season out of 4. And that's with a coach that's almost as bad as he is running the show.

What he's doing NOW has nothing to do with the fact that his performance in NY EARNED him a chance to coach in KANSAS CITY.

[Reerun_KC]

Ran the Jets into the ground?

Are you ****ing huffing paint?

They are .500 since his departure, and have had 1 losing season out of 4. And that's with a coach that's almost as bad as he is running the show.

What he's doing NOW has nothing to do with the fact that his performance in NY EARNED him a chance to coach in KANSAS CITY.

Like my new signature???


Your last statment goes to show you how low the Chiefs have fallen and how sad this franchise had become....

Thankfully we are moving on from Fail, might be a new kind of Fail, but it wont be fail with Carl or Herm anymore. Which is enough to give alot of us hope...

[OnTheWarpath15]

Like my new signature???


Your last statment goes to show you how low the Chiefs have fallen and how sad this franchise had become....

Thankfully we are moving on from Fail, might be a new kind of Fail, but it wont be fail with Carl or Herm anymore. Which is enough to give alot of us hope...

Stay classy, liar.

Feel free to post a link to this thread in your sig, so people can see for themselves.

[Reerun_KC]

Stay classy, liar.

ROFL

[OnTheWarpath15]

ROFL

Defamation is funny to you?

I shouldn't be shocked, considering that's become the way of this board.

When you get your ass handed to you in an argument, make something up about the person that just owned you.

I mean, it's just the internet, right?

Who needs integrity on the internet?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Why the fuck do people think they can make claims without evidence?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Why the fuck do people think they can make claims without evidence?

2 reasons:

-most are fucking lazy

-it's the internet, and who needs integrity when you're faceless?

[Mr. Plow]

I'm not defending him, you tard.

I'm saying he earned the chance to coach based on his performance in NY.

I didn't want him here either, but to say he was "given" a chance while Haley "earned" one is fucking ridiculous.

His performance in NY was a 49% win percentage. 39-41. Sure he had 3 playoff teams, but in 8 years of coaching, he has 2 10 win seasons, 2 9 win season, and then nothing above 6 wins....also, he is a career 42% win percentage coach.


Also, I see what you have been saying about earning, but I don't think his performance in NY is something to jump up and down about.

[Reerun_KC]

Why the **** do people think they can make claims without evidence?

People are making claims here everyday...

Haley is in over his head and struggling with his daily duties, yet there isnt any evidence or reports from the Chiefs proving as such....

So you tell me? Why do people think they can make those claims?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

2 reasons:

-most are fucking lazy

-it's the internet, and who needs integrity when you're faceless?

At least I can fail the dumb motherfuckers in my classes who do this shit.

[Reerun_KC]

2 reasons:

-most are ****ing lazy

-it's the internet, and who needs integrity when you're faceless?

Why remain faceless. You anywhere near OKC? IF so, lets have a beer and continue our herm debate?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

People are making claims here everyday...

Haley is in over his head and struggling with his daily duties, yet there isnt any evidence or reports from the Chiefs proving as such....

So you tell me? Why do people think they can make those claims?

Please point me to where I've said that these people aren't doing this.

[OnTheWarpath15]

His performance in NY was a 49% win percentage. 39-41. Sure he had 3 playoff teams, but in 8 years of coaching, he has 2 10 win seasons, 2 9 win season, and then nothing above 6 wins....also, he is a career 42% win percentage coach.

Follow the thread, Plow.

ReeTard said that Herm was "given" his chance to coach in KANSAS CITY, while Haley "earned" his.

This has nothing to do with what Herm did or didn't accomplish elsewhere.

I'm no fan of Herm's but I'm also not so petty and naive to think that a coach who has 3 winning seasons out of 5, and 2 playoff wins is not going to get a second chance to coach somewhere in the league.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

His performance in NY was a 49% win percentage. 39-41. Sure he had 3 playoff teams, but in 8 years of coaching, he has 2 10 win seasons, 2 9 win season, and then nothing above 6 wins....also, he is a career 42% win percentage coach.


Also, I see what you have been saying about earning, but I don't think his performance in NY is something to jump up and down about.

Nor was he making that claim. But because people are so fucking stupid, so binary in their thinking, they automatically assume that anything that isn't fascist fealty to one is fascist fealty to the other.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Why remain faceless. You anywhere near OKC? IF so, lets have a beer and continue our herm debate?

See, I'm not faceless.

Many people here have met me, and more will this weekend.

Even if NO ONE knew who I was, I'd still argue the same way I do now.

With facts and evidence to support my claims.

[Reerun_KC]

Defamation is funny to you?

I shouldn't be shocked, considering that's become the way of this board.

When you get your ass handed to you in an argument, make something up about the person that just owned you.

I mean, it's just the internet, right?

Who needs integrity on the internet?

who handed me my ass? Its a matter of personal opinion? One person prefers that Herm earned his way and the other thinks otherwise... So that is handing someone his ass?

That sir is funny to me.

You have your opinion and I have mine... You praise Herm for earning way, while others laugh at him...

[OnTheWarpath15]

who handed me my ass? Its a matter of personal opinion? One person prefers that Herm earned his way and the other thinks otherwise... So that is handing someone his ass?

That sir is funny to me.

You have your opinion and I have mine... You praise Herm for earning way, while others laugh at him...

I'm not praising him for anything, you fucking dolt.

Just presenting the facts.

Show me a 1st time coach that had more winning seasons than losing ones, and won playoff games that DIDN'T get a second chance to be a HC in the NFL.

I'll wait.

[Reerun_KC]

Follow the thread, Plow.

ReeTard said that Herm was "given" his chance to coach in KANSAS CITY, while Haley "earned" his.

This has nothing to do with what Herm did or didn't accomplish elsewhere.

I'm no fan of Herm's but I'm also not so petty and naive to think that a coach who has 3 winning seasons out of 5, and 2 playoff wins is not going to get a second chance to coach somewhere in the league.

Here we go. With that opinion thing again. Your opinion that is Herm EARNED his second chance to fuck over a franchise by his time in NYJ and Reerun's opinion that was based on the mistakes and direction of the Jets franchise with Herm at the helm, that he shouldnt be given a chance/traded for to come to KC.

[Mr. Plow]

Follow the thread, Plow.

ReeTard said that Herm was "given" his chance to coach in KANSAS CITY, while Haley "earned" his.

This has nothing to do with what Herm did or didn't accomplish elsewhere.

I'm no fan of Herm's but I'm also not so petty and naive to think that a coach who has 3 winning seasons out of 5, and 2 playoff wins is not going to get a second chance to coach somewhere in the league.


I have been following.

I wasn't even arguing Haley being "given" his opportunity. I was more arguing that Herm's performance in NY - while they made the playoffs 3 times - was nothing that caused him to "earn" his position.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Here we go. With that opinion thing again. Your opinion that is Herm EARNED his second chance to fuck over a franchise by his time in NYJ and Reerun's opinion that was based on the mistakes and direction of the Jets franchise with Herm at the helm, that he shouldnt be given a chance/traded for to come to KC.

My opinion is backed with facts and evidence.

What is your opinion backed with?

Oh, that's right. Hate for Herm Edwards.

And I'm still waiting for you to answer this question:

Show me a 1st time coach that had more winning seasons than losing ones, and won playoff games that DIDN'T get a second chance to be a HC in the NFL.

[Reerun_KC]

Please point me to where I've said that these people aren't doing this.

you just said this...

Why the **** do people think they can make claims without evidence?

Never said poeple werent doing this. What I said is why are people posting that when you posted......

[OnTheWarpath15]

I have been following.

I wasn't even arguing Haley being "given" his opportunity. I was more arguing that Herm's performance in NY - while they made the playoffs 3 times - was nothing that caused him to "earn" his position.

Then I guess you have a homework assignment as well.

Show me a 1st time coach that had more winning seasons than losing ones, and won playoff games that DIDN'T get a second chance to be a HC in the NFL.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

you just said this...



Never said poeple werent doing this. What I said is why are people posting that when you posted......

No, you posited (implicitly) that people who were bashing Haley for being in over his head somehow excuses those who can make asinine claims that fabricate what other posters said.

[Reerun_KC]

My opinion is backed with facts and evidence.

What is your opinion backed with?

Oh, that's right. Hate for Herm Edwards.

And I'm still waiting for you to answer this question:

My opinion is backed with his preformance, game day decisions, killing of QB's, neglect of the OL during both HC tenures, his lack of talent evaluations, winning %'s and so on...

Yes I hate Herm Edwards? This is new to you? Dude was a sack of ass in NYJ, it didnt change when he wore red and gold...

[htismaqe]

so binary in their thinking

This place has always been that way. There's 2 choices and only 2 choices in any given argument.

[Mr. Plow]

Then I guess you have a homework assignment as well.


Let me get my secretary to do some research for me....Reerun, get on this!

[OnTheWarpath15]

My opinion is backed with his preformance, game day decisions, killing of QB's, neglect of the OL during both HC tenures, his lack of talent evaluations, winning %'s and so on...

Yes I hate Herm Edwards? This is new to you? Dude was a sack of ass in NYJ, it didnt change when he wore red and gold...

Still waiting...

[Reerun_KC]

No, you posited (implicitly) that people who were bashing Haley for being in over his head somehow excuses those who can make asinine claims that fabricate what other posters said.

Actually I was discussing your question of how can people make claims without evidence?

I asked a question and you deflected it... Not saying that you are stating Haley is over his head, but the fact that it is being posted alot without evidence...

[Reerun_KC]

Still waiting...

Yes you are and I am still researching...

Damn be patient dude....

[OnTheWarpath15]

Let me get my secretary to do some research for me....Reerun, get on this!

LMAO.

You're cool, Plow. You're off the hook. See you Saturday.

ReeTard, however, has some explaining to do.

[Reerun_KC]

Let me get my secretary to do some research for me....Reerun, get on this!

I am...

God damn people! :cuss:

:D

[DeezNutz]

Not saying that you are stating Haley is over his head, but the fact that it is being posted alot without evidence...

I'd say that OTW's thread yesterday compiled a significant amount of damning evidence against Haley and Pioli.

[Reerun_KC]

Was going to say Dave Wannstedt...

But he never won a playoff game with the Bears....


So still researching...

[Fish]

Reerun debating tactics....


http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/3749/bigheadedtinydogchasing.gif

[Mr. Plow]

LMAO.

You're cool, Plow. You're off the hook. See you Saturday.

ReeTard, however, has some explaining to do.


Whew. I really wasn't looking forward to doing all that research. ROFL

[OnTheWarpath15]

Was going to say Dave Wannstedt...

But he never won a playoff game with the Bears....


So still researching...

And he still got another HC job.

[Reerun_KC]

Whew. I really wasn't looking forward to doing all that research. ROFL

Thanks for the help!

:D

[Reerun_KC]

And he still got another HC job.

Thats right he went to DC Miami then became the HC...

[OnTheWarpath15]

Whew. I really wasn't looking forward to doing all that research. ROFL

Thing is, you're a stand-up guy, and would have done it.

ReeTard is going to find some guy that coached in the fucking 1950's, and completely miss the point.

The fact that he's still even looking proves he's missed the point.

[Reerun_KC]

Thing is, you're a stand-up guy, and would have done i
ReeTard is going to find some guy that coached in the ****ing 1950's, and completely miss the point.

The fact that he's still even looking proves he's missed the point.

I see your point and thats fine.. OTWP. There is nothing wrong with your opinion on Herm and what he has earned...

[Reerun_KC]

Thing is, you're a stand-up guy, and would have done it.

ReeTard is going to find some guy that coached in the ****ing 1950's, and completely miss the point.

The fact that he's still even looking proves he's missed the point.

Shit I havent even got to the 1950s yet...

LMAO

[htismaqe]

Was going to say Dave Wannstedt...

But he never won a playoff game with the Bears....


So still researching...

Dude, stop researching. It was a loaded question - he already knows the answer and it's not going to work out for you.

[Reerun_KC]

Dude, stop researching. It was a loaded question - he already knows the answer and it's not going to work out for you.

So what is the answer?

Shit I would like to know the coaches name... This would be a good drinking question...

[htismaqe]

So what is the answer?

Shit I would like to know the coaches name... This would be a good drinking question...

Knowing OTWP as well as I do, I'm guessing that there aren't any. Otherwise he wouldn't have asked the question. :)

[Reerun_KC]

Knowing OTWP as well as I do, I'm guessing that there aren't any. Otherwise he wouldn't have asked the question. :)

:#

Nice. I figured there was some random dude..... Hell even Rich Kotite got hired by the Jets after Philly....

[FAX]

I'm not sure the argument has any merit one way or the other. Herm was hired because he was pals with Carl. That was the primary (and, perhaps, only) reason Carl apparently needed. There were other coaches out there we could have recruited but based on what has since become public knowledge, Carl's short list had, at most, 2 or 3 names on it. It's pretty clear that he only interviewed Saunders because Vermeil asked him to do it.

Carl wanted Herm so badly that he even paid the Jets for his services. With that in mind, it really isn't a matter of "earning" or being "given" the position ... it's a case of being another good ol' boy in the Carl Peterson talent pool.

FAX

[Reerun_KC]

I'm not sure the argument has any merit one way or the other. Herm was hired because he was pals with Carl. That was the primary (and, perhaps, only) reason Carl apparently needed. There were other coaches out there we could have recruited but based on what has since become public knowledge, Carl's short list had, at most, 2 or 3 names on it. It's pretty clear that he only interviewed Saunders because Vermeil asked him to do it.

Carl wanted Herm so badly that he even paid the Jets for his services. With that in mind, it really isn't a matter of "earning" or being "given" the position ... it's a case of being another good ol' boy in the Carl Peterson talent pool.

FAX

:hmmm:

probably more accurate than either OTWP or Reerun....

[Mr. Plow]

Thanks for the help!

:D

:)

[DaneMcCloud]

No not in the least. I'm just pointing out that when Herm said nearly the same thing, people wanted to lop off his head and mount it on an overpass on I-70. The hypocrisy is still being completely ignored. Haley makes the same mistakes and says the same things and it's a non-topic.

That's because of two reasons:

1. He's new, so he's given a pass.

2. He speaks intelligently. People made fun of Herm's talking style. Herm didn't have complete mastery of the English language and he was taken to task because of it.

[DaneMcCloud]

Fair enough.. But Herm also took a 2 franchises and drove them into the ground as well....


This is utter fallacy.

[DaneMcCloud]

Why the fuck do people think they can make claims without evidence?

Because they're fucking retarded, drooling Mongo's.

[ChiefGator]

That's because of two reasons:

1. He's new, so he's given a pass.

2. He speaks intelligently. People made fun of Herm's talking style. Herm didn't have complete mastery of the English language and he was taken to task because of it.

And 3, Haley has enough of a pair to take some of the blame, which teflon Herm never did. He always blamed his players, saying it was up to them. Bullshit... try coaching better.

[DaneMcCloud]

And 3, Haley has enough of a pair to take some of the blame, which teflon Herm never did. He always blamed his players, saying it was up to them. Bullshit... try coaching better.

Personally, I think that's over-rated.

Some guys need to be called out publicly. Vermeil did it LJ and everyone thought it was appropriate and "funny".

Herm did it and he was an asshole.

Such duplicity in this fan base.

[RippedmyFlesh]

I'm not praising him for anything, you fucking dolt.

Just presenting the facts.

Show me a 1st time coach that had more winning seasons than losing ones, and won playoff games that DIDN'T get a second chance to be a HC in the NFL.

I'll wait.
Brian Billick mike martz

[DaneMcCloud]

Brian Billick

So you're saying he'll never get another shot at a head coaching job?

That's nonsense.

He's been out of coaching for ONE FUCKING YEAR.

[htismaqe]

Personally, I think that's over-rated.

Some guys need to be called out publicly. Vermeil did it LJ and everyone thought it was appropriate and "funny".

Herm did it and he was an asshole.

Such duplicity in this fan base.

Herm hardly ever took the blame, though. Vermeil wasn't afraid to say he screwed up. So far, neither is Haley.

Herm either blamed somebody else or talked his way around the issue.

[DaneMcCloud]

Herm hardly ever took the blame, though. Vermeil wasn't afraid to say he screwed up. So far, neither is Haley.

Herm either blamed somebody else or talked his way around the issue.

Personally, I think that's inconsequential to winning or losing.

If I were the head coach at that time, I would have blamed Carl Peterson each and every time I was asked why the team lost a game.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Personally, I think that's over-rated.

Some guys need to be called out publicly. Vermeil did it LJ and everyone thought it was appropriate and "funny".

Herm did it and he was an asshole.

Such duplicity in this fan base.
Kinda of like now with people almost saying "herm wasn't so bad"

[DaneMcCloud]

Kinda of like now with people almost saying "herm wasn't so bad"

I don't know who's saying that but then again, I haven't read every thread.

[htismaqe]

Personally, I think that's inconsequential to winning or losing.

If I were the head coach at that time, I would have blamed Carl Peterson each and every time I was asked why the team lost a game.

Precisely the reason why you never would have been the coach at that time. :)

[Otter]

Personally, I think that's inconsequential to winning or losing.

If I were the head coach at that time, I would have blamed Carl Peterson each and every time I was asked why the team lost a game.

Do you think that a players perception of his coach's character is inconsequential to winning or losing?

I personally find it easier to get behind someone who can admit when their wrong instead of blaming it on someone else.

[Fish]

And 3, Haley has enough of a pair to take some of the blame, which teflon Herm never did. He always blamed his players, saying it was up to them. Bullshit... try coaching better.

Yeah... like that makes any difference. Nothing more than coachspeak to appease the media and fans. Grandpa Dick took all the blame himself too. And look at all the difference that made. That's why we still have Eric Fucking Hicks whining about his access to Arrowhead. I don't give a shit who the coach blames. That's nothing more than excuses for losing. Correct the root problem of losing and you won't have to settle for morality points on who takes the blame instead of celebrating wins.

[Otter]

Yeah... like that makes any difference. Nothing more than coachspeak to appease the media and fans.

So taking responsibility for your mistakes has no bearing on how your players will perceive you and in turn play for you? I need to try this approach with my guys. I'll just blame them for everything or say "it wasn't my fault" and they'll look and work for me a month from now the same. Is that correct?

This place is truly amazing.

[DaneMcCloud]

Do you think that a players perception of his coach's character is inconsequential to winning or losing?

I personally find it easier to get behind someone who can admit when their wrong instead of blaming it on someone else.

I think right and wrong from a coaching standpoint is far different than right and wrong in the real world.

In coaching, I make the wrong decision or playcall on 3rd and goal, I lose the game.

I make the wrong decision in the business world, and I may cost my company millions of dollars and lose my job. 99% of this country does not work with a guaranteed contract.

In the NFL, guys are paid millions of dollars to follow their coach's orders. Ultimately, it's on the players to win or lose the game.

Just the way I see it.

[Reerun_KC]

This is utter fallacy.

This is why you and I get along so well...

:D

Hope to be out in Cali in the spring.... IF so, its beer time!

[Reerun_KC]

Okay OTWP, you were right, Do you want a public appology?

[Fish]

So taking responsibility for your mistakes has no bearing on how your players will perceive you and in turn play for you? I need to try this approach with my guys. I'll just blame them for everything or say "it wasn't my fault" and they'll look and work for me a month from now the same. Is that correct?

This place is truly amazing.

No, your analogy isn't correct. It might be if Haley was speaking to his team when saying that instead of a room full of journalists. But that's not the case.

Do you really think the team's effort hinges on what the coach says in his press conferences? Are you saying that's how you would like the coach to deal with his players and show them approval or disapproval? Through media press conferences instead of face to face? No. The players speak directly to the coach, and there's no "media filter" in place when that happens. That's where respect is earned and lost. How we see the coach in a presser is not how the players see the coach in practice where it really matters what the coach says. The players know this. Coachspeak is for the media and the fans. And every coach handles it differently.

Mike Gooff: "Coach said in the presser that it was his fault that the line sucks. I guess that means I should try better for him."

[DaneMcCloud]

No, your analogy isn't correct. It might be if Haley was speaking to his team when saying that instead of a room full of journalists. But that's not the case.

Do you really think the team's effort hinges on what the coach says in his press conferences? Are you saying that's how you would like the coach to deal with his players and show them approval or disapproval? Through media press conferences instead of face to face? No. The players speak directly to the coach, and there's no "media filter" in place when that happens. That's where respect is earned and lost. How we see the coach in a presser is not how the players see the coach in practice where it really matter what the coach says. The players know this. Coachspeak is for the media and the fans. And every coach handles it differently.

Mike Gooff: "Coach said in the presser that it was his fault that the line sucks. I guess that means I should try better for him."

Thank you.

You said what I was trying to say much more eloquently.

[Otter]

No, your analogy isn't correct. It might be if Haley was speaking to his team when saying that instead of a room full of journalists. But that's not the case.

Do you really think the team's effort hinges on what the coach says in his press conferences? Are you saying that's how you would like the coach to deal with his players and show them approval or disapproval? Through media press conferences instead of face to face? No. The players speak directly to the coach, and there's no "media filter" in place when that happens. That's where respect is earned and lost. How we see the coach in a presser is not how the players see the coach in practice where it really matters what the coach says. The players know this. Coachspeak is for the media and the fans. And every coach handles it differently.

Mike Gooff: "Coach said in the presser that it was his fault that the line sucks. I guess that means I should try better for him."

Your example is worthless. It's more along the lines of:

Mike Gooff: "did you hear the coach blame us for messing up x play? we were just running what he called. now my friends, family and all the fans think it was my fault! fuck him!".

If you really think how a coach portrays his team to the media & fans has no bearing on how he's perceived by the players and in turn what level of backing the players are willing to give him in return... then I really have nothing else to say to you on the matter because it's useless.

[DaneMcCloud]

If you really think how a coach portrays his team to the media & fans has no bearing on how he's perceived by the players and in turn what level of backing the players are willing to give him in return... then I really have nothing else to say to you on the matter because it's useless.

So then, Vermeil was wrong in calling out Larry Johnson?

Did his play suffer?

[ChiefGator]

So then, Vermeil was wrong in calling out Larry Johnson?

Did his play suffer?

No, but you need to walk a decent line, and Haley does. He says some players need to play better, and isn't afraid to name a few, especially the high profile players. But, he also takes a share of the blame.

You have a perception that people treat Herm and Haley differently despite a similar winning record (albiet in only four meaningful games into Haley's career). This is one reason. Herm NEVER took the blame... I sure don't remember it. He would singlehandedly lose the game wish shitty play calling and then say it is up to the players to play. "Not my fault!" That was absolute bullshit.

And if someone says they needed to call X better, then at least they are self-aware and probably realize they need to improve X. We never saw any improvement under Herm at all... just a slow eventual fade to 2-14.

[milkman]

Yeah, I wouldn't expect anything different from you.

But Haley isn't the experienced OC you claim him to be. Herm has coached more teams to the playoff at this point. I don't think Haley has earned anything, and I think he's fortunate to be where he is.

I do agree that Haley deserves just as much time as Herm. I'm not arguing otherwise. I don't want him fired, despite my criticism of him. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the situation. Haley is suffering from the same mistakes that Herm did, and justifying it the same way. People claimed we would be better due to coaching alone, and that clearly hasn't been the case at all.

The difference, for me at least, is that Herman fucking Edwards never made a mistake that he owned up to.
It was always someone else, or something outside his control.

In 8 years as a head coach, I don't think he ever once suggested he might have done smething wrong.
I know he didn't in 3 as the Chiefs coach.

Haley, on the other hand, believes he's on the right course, but admits that he is learning and making mistakes in the process.

[milkman]

Personally, I think that's inconsequential to winning or losing.

If I were the head coach at that time, I would have blamed Carl Peterson each and every time I was asked why the team lost a game.

In the big picture, it is inconsequential, assuming that a coach is aware of the mistakes he makes, and learns from them.
In Herman fucking Edwards case, evidence would suggest he didn't recognize his mistakes even privately, and never learned form them

However, the question was why is Haley is being given a pass for making similar statements in public?

He's being given a pass because he's new, and admitting mistakes, which provides hope that he learns.