Chiefs Compensation in Thigpen Trade is a 5th rounder [Archive]

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Coach

10-13-2009, 12:52 PM

Mort: Chiefs' Compensation in Thigpen Trade Is a 5th Round Pick

by Joel Thorman, Arrowhead Pride

Prior to last night's Monday Night Football game, Chris Mortensen of ESPN (which we heard via all the Dolphins message boards and Twitter) said the compensation for the Chiefs in the trade that sent Tyler Thigpen to Miami was a fifth round pick. This is what we expected it to be back on September 29th when the Chiefs pulled the trigger. 73% of those polled agreed with the decision and the compensation.

From what I understand, it was likely a conditional pick, meaning Thigpen would have to hit certain escalators (playing time, passing yards, etc). When Mort said it was a fifth round pick, my guess is that the conditions in the pick (if it is indeed a conditional pick) will almost assuredly result in a fifth round pick.

Mort had another interesting nugget - before the trade was executed, Chiefs head coach Todd Haley was planning on experimenting with Thigpen at wide receiver.

Really? That's where we are?

I know we've been searching high and low for wide receivers but Thigpen? I would hope that this would be in some sort of wildcat-esque package. Unless he's in a position where he's a threat to throw, Thigpen at wide receiver doesn't make any sense to me.

This just shows that the Chiefs are searching high and low for receivers. In other words, Bobby Engram being inactive yesterday may be a sign of things to come.

While we're on the Thigpen topic, interesting story: Remember when he first came to the Chiefs and asked for No. 16? Don't make fun - Matt Cassel did the same thing. Anyway, the Chiefs told him there was a guy by the name of Len Dawson who had that number. Thigpen's number in Miami? No. 16 (which you can tell from the picture above).

But, with that fifth rounder, here's how the Chiefs draft is shaking out next season:

KC - 1st

KC - 2nd

ATL - 2nd

KC - 3rd

KC - 4th

KC - 5th

MIA - 5th

(Chiefs sixth round pick is believed to be the compensation for Ndukwe/Alleman)

(Chiefs seventh round pick went to the Dolphins as part in a '09 draft day trade)

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/10/13/1082480/mort-chiefs-compensation-in

kstater

10-13-2009, 12:55 PM

Pretty good deal for a benchwarmer.

Reaper16

10-13-2009, 12:56 PM

Jesus, what a coup. Pioli, for all of his questionable judgment so far, gets excellent value out of trades.

DeezNutz

10-13-2009, 12:56 PM

Cool.

the Talking Can

10-13-2009, 12:56 PM

nice, now get a 4th for DJ

Tribal Warfare

10-13-2009, 12:57 PM

Pretty good deal for a benchwarmer.

which cost KC absolutely nothing

SAUTO

10-13-2009, 12:58 PM

well the CP GMs would have lost out on that one, they would have just cut the guy

DaWolf

10-13-2009, 01:00 PM

Now all we gotta do is draft properly. Pioli's scouting department better be up to par, because this draft it's all on him, can't shift any blame to leftovers from Carl's scouting department...

FloridaMan88

10-13-2009, 01:02 PM

Thigpen could have been the next Kerry Meier

OnTheWarpath15

10-13-2009, 01:03 PM

nice, now get anything for DJ

FYP.

Seriously, after getting a 5th for Thigpen, if Pioli gets even a 6th/7th out of DJ, he wins.

Something > nothing.

Doing something productive with those picks, however, is another discussion altogether.

SenselessChiefsFan

10-13-2009, 01:35 PM

FYP.

Seriously, after getting a 5th for Thigpen, if Pioli gets even a 6th/7th out of DJ, he wins.

Something > nothing.

Doing something productive with those picks, however, is another discussion altogether.

DJ will be a restricted Free agent next year..... Chiefs can get a pick for him then. I wouldn't trade him for less than a third.

Halfcan

10-13-2009, 01:39 PM

If we would have kept Thiggy and made him the starter-how much worse could our record be right now??

The Franchise

10-13-2009, 01:41 PM

If we would have kept Thiggy and made him the starter-how much worse could our record be right now??

-1

Micjones

10-13-2009, 01:47 PM

nice, now get a 4th for DJ

Yep.

the Talking Can

10-13-2009, 01:47 PM

If we would have kept Thigpen and made him the starter-how much worse could our record be right now??

if we hit you with a hammer, how much dumber would your post be right now?

Micjones

10-13-2009, 01:48 PM

DJ will be a restricted Free agent next year..... Chiefs can get a pick for him then. I wouldn't trade him for less than a third.

Who is to say a team will be interested then?

Move him now for a #4 or #5 pick.

OnTheWarpath15

10-13-2009, 01:51 PM

DJ will be a restricted Free agent next year..... Chiefs can get a pick for him then. I wouldn't trade him for less than a third.

You're not getting a pick for him in unrestricted free agency.

Here are the options for teams/RFA's:

The player's original team maintains the First Refusal Right if the team tenders a contract offer of one year at $1.01 M.

The player's original team maintains the Right of First Refusal and Draft Selection at the Player’s Original Draft Round (from the team with which he signs) if the team tenders an offer of one year at the same amount(s) listed above OR at least 110% of the player’s prior year’s salary -- whichever is greater.

The player's original team maintains the Right of First Refusal and Second Round Draft Selection (from the team with which he signs) if the team tenders an offer of one year at $$1.545 million OR at least 110% of the player’s prior year’s salary -- whichever is greater.

The player's original team maintains the Right of First Refusal and First Round Draft Selection (from the team with which he signs) if the team tenders an offer of one year at $2.198 million OR at least 110% of the player’s prior year’s salary -- whichever is greater.

The player's original team maintains the Right of First Refusal and First Round Draft Selection and Third Round Draft Selection (both from the team with which he signs) if the team tenders an offer of one year at $2.792 million OR at least 110% of the player's prior year’s salary -- whichever is greater.

No team is going to sign DJ knowing they have to give up at worst a 2nd round pick to do so.

Trade him for whatever you can get for him.

OnTheWarpath15

10-13-2009, 01:52 PM

Who is to say a team will be interested then?

Move him now for a #4 or #5 pick.

No one will be interested at those terms - see my post above.

Just Passin' By

10-13-2009, 02:02 PM

Outside of this season's draftees, there's not a lot on this team that can bring back decent compensation. Getting that 5th for Thigpen was pretty good for Pioli. He should think long and hard about the idea of going the 'fire sale' route with a lot of the other holdovers from the previous regime rather than just cutting them during the offseason. Trade deadline deals are fairly rare, but even selling on the cheap should be seriously considered.

Chiefs fans are going to bitch all season long (it's the nature of the beast), no matter who's playing, so getting some picks for the likes of Johnson & Johnson should be done if at all possible.

wild1

10-13-2009, 02:09 PM

A 5th is about 3 rounds higher than we should have gotten. Nice work Pioli.

Reerun_KC

10-13-2009, 02:12 PM

DaneMcCloud

10-13-2009, 02:24 PM

This.....

Just unload all this trash.... And lets just start over... Way to much garbage left over from Carl and Herm.

I'm curious: Who should be "dumped" that was drafted while Herm was the head coach?

CaliforniaChief

10-13-2009, 02:27 PM

So if the pick for Thigpen was a 5th, we could have traded the 2nd rounder we got for Gonzo and the 5th and given the Jets a better deal than they got for Braylon Edwards? So essentially:

Tony Gonzalez and Tyler Thigpen for Braylon Edwards.

MAN!

(Sorry if this was already brought up.)

Reerun_KC

10-13-2009, 02:28 PM

I'm curious: Who should be "dumped" that was drafted while Herm was the head coach?

Well of course you for starters...

Then from the 2008 draft

<TABLE class=pt8 border=0 cellPadding=0 width=500><TBODY><TR><TD>1</TD><TD>Glenn Dorsey (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=DorseGle01)</TD><TD>Louisiana State</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>1</TD><TD>Branden Albert (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=AlberBra01)</TD><TD>Virginia</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>2</TD><TD>Brandon Flowers (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=FloweBra01)</TD><TD>Virginia Tech</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>3</TD><TD>Jamaal Charles (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=CharlJam01)</TD><TD>Texas</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>3</TD><TD>Brad Cottam (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=CottaBra01)</TD><TD>Tennessee</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>3</TD><TD>DaJuan Morgan (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=MorgaDaJ01)</TD><TD>North Carolina State</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>4</TD><TD>Will Franklin</TD><TD>Missouri</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>5</TD><TD>Brandon Carr (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=CarrBra01)</TD><TD>Grand Valley State</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>6</TD><TD>Barry Richardson (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=RichaBar01)</TD><TD>Clemson</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>6</TD><TD>Kevin Robinson (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=RobinKev01)</TD><TD>Utah State</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>7</TD><TD>Brian Johnston (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=JohnsBri02)</TD><TD>Gardner-Webb</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>7</TD><TD>Mike Merritt (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=MerriMik02)</TD><TD>Central Florida</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Then fromt he 2007 draft

<TABLE class=pt8 border=0 cellPadding=0 width=500><TBODY><TR><TD>1</TD><TD>Dwayne Bowe (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=BoweDwa01)</TD><TD>Louisiana State</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>2</TD><TD>Turk McBride (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=McBriTur01)</TD><TD>Tennessee</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>3</TD><TD>Tank Tyler (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=TylerTan01)</TD><TD>North Carolina State</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>5</TD><TD>Kolby Smith (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=SmithKol01)</TD><TD>Louisville</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>5</TD><TD>Justin Medlock (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=MedloJus01)</TD><TD>UCLA</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>6</TD><TD>Herb Taylor</TD><TD>Texas Christian</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>7</TD><TD>Michael Allan</TD><TD>Whitworth</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Then from the 2006 draft

<TABLE class=pt8 border=0 cellPadding=0 width=500><TBODY><TR><TD>1</TD><TD>Tamba Hali (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=HALITAM01)</TD><TD>Penn State</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>2</TD><TD>Bernard Pollard (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=POLLABER01)</TD><TD>Purdue</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>3</TD><TD>Brodie Croyle (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=CROYLBRO01)</TD><TD>Alabama</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>5</TD><TD>Marcus Maxey (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=MAXEYMAR01)</TD><TD>Miami (FL)</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>6</TD><TD>Tre' Stallings (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=STALLTRE01)</TD><TD>Mississippi</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>6</TD><TD>Jeff Webb (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=WEBBJEF01)</TD><TD>San Diego State</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>7</TD><TD>Jarrad Page (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=PAGEJAR01)</TD><TD>UCLA</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

That should about do it...:D

Reerun_KC

10-13-2009, 02:29 PM

On a serious note Dane...

Page and Cottam for starters...

KCDC

10-13-2009, 02:36 PM

Reerun_KC

10-13-2009, 02:38 PM

Even a more serious note Dane,

2001 zero players on roster

2002 zero players on roster

2003 LJ is the only player on roster

2004 zero players on roster

2005 DJ and MVP

2006 Croyle, Page and Hali left

2007 Bowe, Tyler and Smith

2008 and 2009 still to early to judge...

So you as you can see, Thanks to Carl, Herm and yes Grandpa. The cupboard was left pretty bare for anyone taking over. Only the fans can demand high expectations and progress after losing. When you look at it, there isnt much to work with...

DaneMcCloud

10-13-2009, 02:39 PM

Well of course you for starters...

Then from the 2008 draft

<table class="pt8" width="500" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td>1</td><td>Glenn Dorsey (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=DorseGle01)</td><td>Louisiana State</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>1</td><td>Branden Albert (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=AlberBra01)</td><td>Virginia</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>2</td><td>Brandon Flowers (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=FloweBra01)</td><td>Virginia Tech</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>3</td><td>Jamaal Charles (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=CharlJam01)</td><td>Texas</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>3</td><td>Brad Cottam (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=CottaBra01)</td><td>Tennessee</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>3</td><td>DaJuan Morgan (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=MorgaDaJ01)</td><td>North Carolina State</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>Will Franklin</td><td>Missouri</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>Brandon Carr (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=CarrBra01)</td><td>Grand Valley State</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>Barry Richardson (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=RichaBar01)</td><td>Clemson</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>Kevin Robinson (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=RobinKev01)</td><td>Utah State</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>7</td><td>Brian Johnston (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=JohnsBri02)</td><td>Gardner-Webb</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>7</td><td>Mike Merritt (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=MerriMik02)</td><td>Central Florida</td></tr></tbody></table>

Then fromt he 2007 draft

<table class="pt8" width="500" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td>1</td><td>Dwayne Bowe (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=BoweDwa01)</td><td>Louisiana State</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>2</td><td>Turk McBride (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=McBriTur01)</td><td>Tennessee</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>3</td><td>Tank Tyler (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=TylerTan01)</td><td>North Carolina State</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>Kolby Smith (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=SmithKol01)</td><td>Louisville</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>Justin Medlock (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=MedloJus01)</td><td>UCLA</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>Herb Taylor</td><td>Texas Christian</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>7</td><td>Michael Allan</td><td>Whitworth</td></tr></tbody></table>

Then from the 2006 draft

<table class="pt8" width="500" border="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td>1</td><td>Tamba Hali (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=HALITAM01)</td><td>Penn State</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>2</td><td>Bernard Pollard (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=POLLABER01)</td><td>Purdue</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>3</td><td>Brodie Croyle (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=CROYLBRO01)</td><td>Alabama</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>Marcus Maxey (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=MAXEYMAR01)</td><td>Miami (FL)</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>Tre' Stallings (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=STALLTRE01)</td><td>Mississippi</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>6</td><td>Jeff Webb (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=WEBBJEF01)</td><td>San Diego State</td><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>7</td><td>Jarrad Page (http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=PAGEJAR01)</td><td>UCLA</td></tr></tbody></table>

That should about do it...:D

So you're advocating that every player should be dumped?

Huh?

DaneMcCloud

10-13-2009, 02:42 PM

Reviewing the list of 2006 and 2007 drafts, it is scary to note that only 3-4 decent players stuck. Page was the best value (being only a 7th round pick). Bowe was worth a first rounder, in my view. Tamba probably not. Tank might develop and justify a 3rd rounder. Brodie as a 3rd rounder was worth a shot, but we probably deal him for a 5th or 6th rounder in the future.

Tamba Hali was fine his first season.

He struggled as the defensive talent declined.

He was injured in 2008.

He's a solid 3-4 linebacker that continues to improve. Once the Chiefs surround him with actual talent at linebacker and safety, I see no reason why he won't be a consistent 8-10 sack per year player.

But that's all predicated on bringing in more talent on the defense.

Reaper16

10-13-2009, 02:43 PM

DaneMcCloud

10-13-2009, 02:44 PM

So you as you can see, Thanks to Carl, Herm and yes Grandpa. The cupboard was left pretty bare for anyone taking over. Only the fans can demand high expectations and progress after losing. When you look at it, there isnt much to work with...

I know this, Reerun. But there's a reason why some of the guys from the 2006-2008 drafts aren't on the roster, namely the ridiculous switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4.

Several of those guys are currently playing in the NFL, some even starting.

Reerun_KC

10-13-2009, 02:46 PM

So you're advocating that every player should be dumped?

Huh?

:clap:

Your pretty sharp...

See the next post... that one was a sarcasm post...

Reerun_KC

10-13-2009, 02:47 PM

I know this, Reerun. But there's a reason why some of the guys from the 2006-2008 drafts aren't on the roster, namely the ridiculous switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4.

Several of those guys are currently playing in the NFL, some even starting.

Who did we cut that really hurt us from the 2006-2008 draft?

DaneMcCloud

10-13-2009, 02:49 PM

Who did we cut that really hurt us from the 2006-2008 draft?

Considering we switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4, that's difficult to assess.

If the Chiefs had stayed in a 4-3 and drafted Maualuga, we could be looking at a completely different defense right now.

Demonpenz

10-13-2009, 02:51 PM

Maualuga is slaughtering people right now

Demonpenz

10-13-2009, 02:52 PM

no dane we don't want to hear how you designed the guitar sound for slaughter's hit album

Reerun_KC

10-13-2009, 02:54 PM

Considering we switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4, that's difficult to assess.

If the Chiefs had stayed in a 4-3 and drafted Maualuga, we could be looking at a completely different defense right now.

Yes agree...
Not sure the switch was the right or wrong thing to do. Until we get talent and draft well, the next 2-4 years it could look like this...

There isnt much to build a foundation on...

Reaper16

10-13-2009, 02:56 PM

no dane we don't want to hear how you designed the guitar sound for slaughter's hit album
WE GONNA FLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

FLY TO THE ANGELS

Go Vlad

HemiEd

10-13-2009, 03:04 PM

well the CP GMs would have lost out on that one, they would have just cut the guy

Like the two 2nd rounders, Pollard and McBride?

ChiefsCountry

10-13-2009, 03:04 PM

Yes agree...
Not sure the switch was the right or wrong thing to do. Until we get talent and draft well, the next 2-4 years it could look like this...

There isnt much to build a foundation on...

This team looked alot better for a future run in January than they do now.

DaneMcCloud

10-13-2009, 03:08 PM

This team looked alot better for a future run in January than they do now.

Absolutely.

Especially when you consider that the Chiefs last year lost eight games by seven points or less.

They could have added Sanchez, Maualuga, Boley in free agency, and a smattering of offensive lineman and wide receivers the rest of day two and would most likely be sitting at 2-3 at worst right now.

HemiEd

10-13-2009, 03:12 PM

Absolutely.

Especially when you consider that the Chiefs last year lost eight games by seven points or less.

Herm has hijacked Dane's account.

Great Expectations

10-13-2009, 03:13 PM

Tamba Hali was fine his first season.

He struggled as the defensive talent declined.

He was injured in 2008.

He's a solid 3-4 linebacker that continues to improve. Once the Chiefs surround him with actual talent at linebacker and safety, I see no reason why he won't be a consistent 8-10 sack per year player.

But that's all predicated on bringing in more talent on the defense.

He could get 8 sacks this year, he already has 2 in his first 5 games as a LB. He continually misses some that a lot of players would get. His ratio of sacks to pressures is horrible.

With more talent around him, he could consistently be a double digit sack guy.

SenselessChiefsFan

10-13-2009, 03:13 PM

Who is to say a team will be interested then?

Move him now for a #4 or #5 pick.

Tons of teams will be interested. More than now. I take no less than a third personally.

All they have to do is tender him and they will get some offers. The other teams won't have to sign him to huge deals.... just more than the tender.

DaneMcCloud

10-13-2009, 03:13 PM

Herm has hijacked Dane's account.

LMAO

Actually, it's Thigpen.

Trying to pump myself up.

DaneMcCloud

10-13-2009, 03:15 PM

He could get 8 sacks this year, he already has 2 in his first 5 games as a LB. He continually misses some that a lot of players would get. His ratio of sacks to pressures is horrible.

With more talent around him, he could consistently be a double digit sack guy.

Hence:

I see no reason why he won't be a consistent 8-10 sack per year player.

LaChapelle

10-13-2009, 03:16 PM

"(Chiefs sixth round pick is believed to be the compensation for Ndukwe/Alleman)"

This is the first I've heard of a draft# placed with the O-lineman trade. Is this a guess on your part?

DaneMcCloud

10-13-2009, 03:16 PM

OnTheWarpath15

10-13-2009, 03:19 PM

Tons of teams will be interested. More than now. I take no less than a third personally.

All they have to do is tender him and they will get some offers. The other teams won't have to sign him to huge deals.... just more than the tender.

What makes you think anyone will give up a 2nd round pick, at minimum?

Either you have no idea how RFA works, you have a ridiculously inflated view of DJ, or both.

OnTheWarpath15

10-13-2009, 03:19 PM

"(Chiefs sixth round pick is believed to be the compensation for Ndukwe/Alleman)"

This is the first I've heard of a draft# placed with the O-lineman trade. Is this a guess on your part?

I figure it's an educated guess, since we didn't have a 7th round pick to deal.

DrRyan

10-13-2009, 03:21 PM

The franchise is in the dire situation it is precisely because of that disastrous streak of drafting. A team can't epic fail at the draft for a DECADE without getting to the point where its lost 28 out of 30 games.

The hardest pill to swallow is drafting Tamba Hali in the 2006 draft over Nick Mangold or Mathias Kiwanuka. Mangold appears to be a C that is going to be plugged in and starting for the Jets for a long, long time.

DaneMcCloud

10-13-2009, 03:23 PM

you have no idea how RFA works, you have a ridiculously inflated view of DJ

Questo

SAUTO

10-13-2009, 03:26 PM

Like the two 2nd rounders, Pollard and McBride?

where is mcbride again? and pollard is up to his usual level of play in houstonROFL

Sure-Oz

10-13-2009, 03:26 PM

DJ can be our lavaar arrington and just run around

Reaper16

10-13-2009, 03:27 PM

The hardest pill to swallow is drafting Tamba Hali in the 2006 draft over Nick Mangold or Mathias Kiwanuka. Mangold appears to be a C that is going to be plugged in and starting for the Jets for a long, long time.
Kiwanuka is pretty much the same player as Hali, production wise. Both are going to give you around 8 sacks a year as the 2nd DE in a 4-3. I don't think that either player is a big-time LDE.

OnTheWarpath15

10-13-2009, 03:29 PM

where is mcbride again? and pollard is up to his usual level of play in houstonROFL

McBride is starting over Cliff Avril (who had 5 sacks as a rookie last year) in Detroit.

SAUTO

10-13-2009, 03:31 PM

McBride is starting over Cliff Avril (who had 5 sacks as a rookie last year) in Detroit.

thanks, makes sense.

DrRyan

10-13-2009, 03:32 PM

Kiwanuka is pretty much the same player as Hali, production wise. Both are going to give you around 8 sacks a year as the 2nd DE in a 4-3. I don't think that either player is a big-time LDE.

Certainly could be that he appears to be the better player since he is surrounded by much more talent in NY. I would have preferred Mangold myself.

CaliforniaChief

10-13-2009, 03:33 PM

The hardest pill to swallow is drafting Tamba Hali in the 2006 draft over Nick Mangold or Mathias Kiwanuka. Mangold appears to be a C that is going to be plugged in and starting for the Jets for a long long time.

There enough hard pills to swallow to have given Michael Jackson a slight buzz back in the day. We all know there is a long trail of regret when it comes to our draft picks, acquisitions, lack of acquisitions, bad trades, horrible contracts, busts, and regrets. It seems futile to look back at this point, IMO. I think for the most part we can look back on it like a now-successful person looks back on the 60's. Just chalk it up to some really good drugs, bad choices, and lots of regrets.

LaChapelle

10-13-2009, 03:33 PM

So...Chiefs trade Thigpen for Ndukwe/Alleman, and bump from a high 6th to a mid 5th. Guess wise

HemiEd

10-13-2009, 03:34 PM

where is mcbride again? and pollard is up to his usual level of play in houstonROFL

My point was, this management team let those two second rounders go, without any compensation. So, I have a hard time praising them for getting a 5th for Thigpen.

Sure, I am glad they got something for him, they spent a long time setting the deal up and anyone could see it happening that was paying attention.

SAUTO

10-13-2009, 03:36 PM

My point was, this management team let those two second rounders go, without any compensation. So, I have a hard time praising them for getting a 5th for Thigpen.

Sure, I am glad they got something for him, they spent a long time setting the deal up and anyone could see it happening that was paying attention.

well those two never played up to their draft spot for us. that was the only point i was trying to make ed:D

DaneMcCloud

10-13-2009, 03:36 PM

So...Chiefs trade Thigpen for Ndukwe/Alleman, and bump from a high 6th to a mid 5th. Guess wise

Not really.

Nsuckwe has been inactive the past two games (and sucked when he was on the field) and Alleman, for whatever reason, can't get Goof off the field.

HemiEd

10-13-2009, 03:46 PM

well those two never played up to their draft spot for us. that was the only point i was trying to make ed:D

Yeah, they were the previous regimes draft picks, so they got a free pass releasing them.

I have been a McBride fan since he was picked, and can't help but feel he is going to become a good player.

Pollard not so much, but the point I was making, you would think they could have milked some kind of pick for them.

So the fact they spent several months carrying 4 QBs to set up this 5th rounder, won't get a lot of accolades from me.

SAUTO

10-13-2009, 03:50 PM

Yeah, they were the previous regimes draft picks, so they got a free pass releasing them.

I have been a McBride fan since he was picked, and can't help but feel he is going to become a good player.

Pollard not so much, but the point I was making, you would think they could have milked some kind of pick for them.

So the fact they spent several months carrying 4 QBs to set up this 5th rounder, won't get a lot of accolades from me.

i got ya, i just dont think ANYONE was going to give up anything for either of them, we kept them around long enough that if someone was very interested we would have known

MahiMike

10-13-2009, 04:05 PM

Pioli is the king of the draft pick card game.

seaofred

10-13-2009, 04:26 PM

[QUOTE=HemiEd;6169127

Pollard not so much, but the point I was making, you would think they could have milked some kind of pick for them.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, Pioli tried to get a 7th for Pollard and couldn't get that. Also why he went without a job for a few weeks.

carlos3652

10-13-2009, 04:36 PM

Absolutely.

Especially when you consider that the Chiefs last year lost eight games by seven points or less.
.

Guess what we are on the same pace this year... 2 games thru 5 by 7 points or less... last year we were 1-4 with only one game losing by 7 (the game we took brady out) - the other 3 games we lost, we lost by an average of 24 points a game... Raiders by 15, Falcons by 24 and Carolina by 34 - then after our week 6 bye we lost by 24 again to Tennesee...

I dont think we were good or better in January, than we are today... if anything we are the same - but the difference is we have a new offense, new defense, new GM, new HC, new QB, etc... with all that... and turning over 60% of the roster we are the same or better than we were last year...

Marcellus

10-13-2009, 05:05 PM

Guess what we are on the same pace this year... 2 games thru 5 by 7 points or less... last year we were 1-4 with only one game losing by 7 (the game we took brady out) - the other 3 games we lost, we lost by an average of 24 points a game... Raiders by 15, Falcons by 24 and Carolina by 34 - then after our week 6 bye we lost by 24 again to Tennesee...

I dont think we were good or better in January, than we are today... if anything we are the same - but the difference is we have a new offense, new defense, new GM, new HC, new QB, etc... with all that... and turning over 60% of the roster we are the same or better than we were last year...

Yup I think this as well but no way to know until we play more games. With the schedule easing up we better win some games. I think if we could get a fucking win the confidence boost would be enough to get this team over a bit of a hump. Not saying they are going to go on a huge winning streak or anything.

They need to taste success.

SenselessChiefsFan

10-13-2009, 05:07 PM

You're not getting a pick for him in unrestricted free agency.

Here are the options for teams/RFA's:

No team is going to sign DJ knowing they have to give up at worst a 2nd round pick to do so.

Trade him for whatever you can get for him.

All negotiable.... those are for teams that don't work out a deal between them.

'Hamas' Jenkins

10-13-2009, 05:09 PM

Jesus, what a coup. Pioli, for all of his questionable judgment so far, gets excellent value out of trades.

Ndukwe, Alleman, and O'Connell....

Hootie

10-13-2009, 05:10 PM

Ndukwe, Alleman, and O'Connell....

oh boy what are we ever going to do without those 6th rounders

DeezNutz

10-13-2009, 05:14 PM

oh boy what are we ever going to do without those 6th rounders

Slippery slope.

'Hamas' Jenkins

10-13-2009, 05:14 PM

oh boy what are we ever going to do without those 6th rounders

Why would you pay for something you can get for free, you dumb sonofabitch?

SAUTO

10-13-2009, 05:15 PM

Why would you pay for something you can get for free, you dumb sonofabitch?

now now hamas no one knows that for sure:D:D

DaneMcCloud

10-13-2009, 05:18 PM

Hootie, the Vikings starting center is a 6th rounder.

Never discount late round draft picks.
Posted via Mobile Device

SenselessChiefsFan

10-13-2009, 05:20 PM

What makes you think anyone will give up a 2nd round pick, at minimum?

Either you have no idea how RFA works, you have a ridiculously inflated view of DJ, or both.

Actually, I know that RFA is like the franchise tag.... it is all negotiable.

Those are 'guidelines'. In other words, unless the Chiefs were to agree to less, the other team would have to cough up those picks IF they signed him.

The team that wanted him would call the Chiefs, see what they would take and then work out a deal with DJ.

That is how it works.

Rausch

10-13-2009, 05:21 PM

5th for a no 2 QB with upside?

That's fair....

Reaper16

10-13-2009, 05:22 PM

Ndukwe, Alleman, and O'Connell....
Ndukwe & Alleman was good paper value. I don't have anything good to say about the trade up for O'Connell.

Coach

10-13-2009, 05:22 PM

To be honest, I think the Chiefs should get no lower than a 6th out of Derrick Johnson. The main factor why I said that is that he's going to be 27 when the season is over. And while his "attitude" or "work-ethic" is very questionable, his skills are not.

The Chiefs should get somewhere between 3-6 from Derrick.

Rausch

10-13-2009, 05:23 PM

Hootie, the Vikings starting center is a 6th rounder.

Never discount late round draft picks.
Posted via Mobile Device

And we now have a GM with a good history late in the draft.

No more of Peterson taking our 23rd safety out of Midwest Fuck-you-State and moving him to LB/CB/WR...

Hootie

10-13-2009, 05:26 PM

Hootie, the Vikings starting center is a 6th rounder.

Never discount late round draft picks.
Posted via Mobile Device

and how many 6th round picks were cut this year? How about 2nd year 6th round picks?

I'm not discounting late round picks...Alleman actually filled in decently for Goff...but the hit rate is...what? 5%...maybe?

You guys TREMENDOUSLY overrate late 2nd day picks...they are basically just 1st dibs on UDFA...shit...who really cares? Pioli isn't going to get them right every friggin' time...

Worry about the first 4 or 5 rounds...stop bitching about 6th and 7th round picks...we traded Thigpen, Gonzalez and two 6th's for a 2nd, 5th, and three stiffs...oh well, looks ok to me.

Hootie

10-13-2009, 05:28 PM

And we now have a GM with a good history late in the draft.

No more of Peterson taking our 23rd safety out of Midwest ****-you-State and moving him to LB/CB/WR...

I think we should try and do what the Browns did this year...if we trade down 60 times from our 1st rounder next year...we can amass 75 6th/7th round picks and then we can definitely find the right 53...since Pioli is such a master at the late rounds...

...

ROFL

My god...these draft "gurus" really go over the deep end...

Dane just called the Willie Roaf trade a horrible trade...

ROFL

4 all-pro seasons...horrible trade? For a conditional pick that turned into a 3rd?

Haha.

I won't get over that one.

DaneMcCloud

10-13-2009, 06:11 PM

I think we should try and do what the Browns did this year...if we trade down 60 times from our 1st rounder next year...we can amass 75 6th/7th round picks and then we can definitely find the right 53...since Pioli is such a master at the late rounds...

...

ROFL

My god...these draft "gurus" really go over the deep end...

Dane just called the Willie Roaf trade a horrible trade...

ROFL

4 all-pro seasons...horrible trade? For a conditional pick that turned into a 3rd?

Haha.

I won't get over that one.

How can you call the Willie Roaf trade a success?

In the three years he started, the Chiefs went 8-8, 13-3 and 7-9. He was hobbled most of 2006.

NO playoff wins.

And you wonder why the Chiefs are 2-30?

Use your brain, Hootie.

DaneMcCloud

10-13-2009, 06:12 PM

And we now have a GM with a good history late in the draft.

No more of Peterson taking our 23rd safety out of Midwest Fuck-you-State and moving him to LB/CB/WR...

Really?

Not this year, it appears.

Hootie

10-13-2009, 06:56 PM

How can you call the Willie Roaf trade a success?

In the three years he started, the Chiefs went 8-8, 13-3 and 7-9. He was hobbled most of 2006.

NO playoff wins.

And you wonder why the Chiefs are 2-30?

Use your brain, Hootie.

so...had we kept that 3rd round pick...we might have won a playoff game?

I say we probably end up losing more games...with that 3rd round pick.

I mean...really...is this your real argument here?

If so, it's pretty fucking weak. Roaf was one of the few good moves...and since we didn't win a super bowl you now say that 3rd round pick would have been more value...

More value to whom?

tonyetony

10-13-2009, 07:04 PM

KC - 1st

KC - 2nd

ATL - 2nd

KC - 3rd

KC - 4th

KC - 5th

MIA - 5th

With the talent on this team one would assume there's 3 possibly 4 rookies starting opening day next year.

Mecca

10-13-2009, 07:08 PM

Dane's point is solid moves like trading for Green and Roaf set your team back for the future because guys taken in the 1st 3 rounds are suppose to be long term starters, the Chiefs got minimal starting years out of those players.

People wonder why the Giants are so good, go look at their recent draft history it's as good as it gets.