Chiefs Sign DT Kenny Smith

[Archie Bunker]

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/

Schefter: Chiefs Sign a Veteran Nose Tackle
by Joel Thorman on Oct 21, 2009 9:19 AM CDT in 2009 Campaign 0 comments

The Kansas City Chiefs have signed veteran nose tackle Kenny Smith according to Adam Schefter of ESPN. Smith is listed as 6'4", 303 pounds.

Smith played college ball at Alabama before being drafted by the New Orleans Saints in the third round of the 2001 NFL draft, where he started 10 of 30 games accumulating 69 tackles and 4.5 sacks.

He stayed there until 2004 before moving onto the Oakland Raiders for one season where he was placed on injured reserve.

He was out of football during the 2006 season but signed to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in March of 2007 where he lasted a little over a month being released days after the 2007 draft.

He spent the 2007 offseason with the New England Patriots before being released. He later signed with the Patriots the following offseason, where he was placed on injured reserve for the season.

The Patriots released him in June of this year.

Injury prone? Let's break this down: IR for the '04, '05 and '08 season. Out of football during the '06 and '07 season.

The Chiefs do not have an open spot on the active roster but one could guess that Barry Richardson will move back down to the practice squad, where there is an open spot.

[El Jefe]

To the SHIP!!!!

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Gap... Stop..... .

[C-Mac]

At least he has a Patriot connection.

[MTG#10]

This is just getting silly...

[Hydrae]

22 guys off the street....

[tomahawk kid]

Guess we decided to pass on Turd Sands.

[RINGLEADER]

Dude's played about the same amount as Dan Saleamua the last five seasons. They should have just signed Dan. Chances are he would contribute about the same amount.

[The Franchise]

Really?

They're this close to going full retard.

[Chiefnj2]

People need to grasp the concept that Pioli and Haley have written off this year. They'll do their best, but they realize they have no talent whatsoever.

They obtained a draft pick for a rotational NT and brought in a warm body to replace him for now.

Hopefully they'll do better in the draft in 2010 than they did in 2009 or we will be in the same situation 2-3 years down the road.

[Reerun_KC]

People need to grasp the concept that Pioli and Haley have written off this year. They'll do their best, but they realize they have no talent whatsoever.

They obtained a draft pick for a rotational NT and brought in a warm body to replace him for now.

Hopefully they'll do better in the draft in 2010 than they did in 2009 or we will be in the same situation 2-3 years down the road.

QFT

[BigChiefFan]

People need to grasp the concept that Pioli and Haley have written off this year. They'll do their best, but they realize they have no talent whatsoever.

They obtained a draft pick for a rotational NT and brought in a warm body to replace him for now.

Hopefully they'll do better in the draft in 2010 than they did in 2009 or we will be in the same situation 2-3 years down the road.
Exact-a-mundo.

[patteeu]

Injury prone? Let's break this down: IR for the '04, '05 and '08 season. Out of football during the '06 and '07 season.

The Chiefs do not have an open spot on the active roster but one could guess that Barry Richardson will move back down to the practice squad, where there is an open spot.

Maybe they can just sign him directly to the IR so they won't need to open a roster spot for him. :shrug:

[bevischief]

Really?

They're this close to going full retard.

ROFL

[Zman]

People need to grasp the concept that Pioli and Haley have written off this year. They'll do their best, but they realize they have no talent whatsoever.

They obtained a draft pick for a rotational NT and brought in a warm body to replace him for now.

Hopefully they'll do better in the draft in 2010 than they did in 2009 or we will be in the same situation 2-3 years down the road.
Yep the sooner we accept the fact that for the last 7 or 8 years we have drafted little or no talent. Give the group a chance I am willing to bet by 2010 we are division champs or at least a playoff team. We gave the last dumb ass 20 years lets give the new guys more then one.

[The Franchise]

People need to grasp the concept that Pioli and Haley have written off this year. They'll do their best, but they realize they have no talent whatsoever.

They obtained a draft pick for a rotational NT and brought in a warm body to replace him for now.

Hopefully they'll do better in the draft in 2010 than they did in 2009 or we will be in the same situation 2-3 years down the road.

I fully understand that they've pretty much written this season off....and I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is the fact that to fill the void they have for players....they grab every person that ever played for the Patriots. That and they're going to go through this season with Goff and Niswanger instead of finding out what they're younger players have.

Shawn Murphy was just cut by the Dolphins. The dude is 26 and would be an upgrade over Goff.

[CoMoChief]

I fully understand that they've pretty much written this season off....and I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is the fact that to fill the void they have for players....they grab every person that ever played for the Patriots. That and they're going to go through this season with Goff and Niswanger instead of finding out what they're younger players have.

Shawn Murphy was just cut by the Dolphins. The dude is 26 and would be an upgrade over Goff.

This

[Bill Lundberg]

They just signed LSU Defensive Lineman Marlon Favorite to the PS. I guess Richardson is staying for a while?

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/10/21/1094590/chiefs-add-an-lsu-tiger-defensive

[ModSocks]

So, we just got worse at DT and we're going to hope that some 5th rnd pick that may not even make the team may make us better, somehow. Sigh, I guess i'll reserve my faith for at least another season.

[ModSocks]

They just signed LSU Defensive Lineman Marlon Favorite to the PS. I guess Richardson is staying for a while?

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/10/21/1094590/chiefs-add-an-lsu-tiger-defensive

Woot. The LSU Chiefs

[Hog Rider]

Qui-cher belly akin', wer on a winnin' streak!!!

[Chiefnj2]

I fully understand that they've pretty much written this season off....and I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is the fact that to fill the void they have for players....they grab every person that ever played for the Patriots. That and they're going to go through this season with Goff and Niswanger instead of finding out what they're younger players have.

Shawn Murphy was just cut by the Dolphins. The dude is 26 and would be an upgrade over Goff.

With Pioli's connection to Parcells, don't you think they investigated Murphy? Why was Murphy cut?

[boogblaster]

NTs are hard to find ... guess he'll be warmth in winter and shade in summer .....

[KCUnited]

I can definitely see this costing us that 3rd win.

[BigChiefFan]

I can definitely see this costing us that 3rd win.:D

[DaWolf]

I fully understand that they've pretty much written this season off....and I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is the fact that to fill the void they have for players....they grab every person that ever played for the Patriots.

You'd rather sign guys who played for Buffalo?

I don't get this whole hate thing that people have in regards to signing guys that had been affiliated with another program the current administration is familiar with. Especially when we're talking about a time of year when only scrubs are available on the street. Every administration does it. Parcells signed every Cowboy he could when he went to Miami. Vermeil brought in a ton of Lambs his first year here. It's just natural when the talent level out there is very even to go with the devil you know. If your scout says that there is little difference between dude A and dude B, but dude A played for you and you know what dude A is all about and you feel based on experience that dude A is going to give you max effort, and dude A is also just going to be depth, then you're probably going with dude A.

Now if we were passing on pro bowlers who were sitting at home to sign Patriots scrubs, then yeah, I'd get the complaining...

[El Jefe]

People need to grasp the concept that Pioli and Haley have written off this year. They'll do their best, but they realize they have no talent whatsoever.

They obtained a draft pick for a rotational NT and brought in a warm body to replace him for now.

Hopefully they'll do better in the draft in 2010 than they did in 2009 or we will be in the same situation 2-3 years down the road.

Yep.

[carlos3652]

Shawn Murphy was just cut by the Dolphins. The dude is 26 and would be an upgrade over Goff.

Dolphin player... if we signed him, people would laugh at this too... Pioli Parcels connection... its a lose lose...

[Micjones]

Kenny Smith last played football in 2003.

Really?

[The Franchise]

Dolphin player... if we signed him, people would laugh at this too... Pioli Parcels connection... its a lose lose...

It's not a lose lose if the guy is talented.

[OnTheWarpath15]

People need to grasp the concept that Pioli and Haley have written off this year. They'll do their best, but they realize they have no talent whatsoever.

They obtained a draft pick for a rotational NT and brought in a warm body to replace him for now.

Hopefully they'll do better in the draft in 2010 than they did in 2009 or we will be in the same situation 2-3 years down the road.

And they'll continue to have no talent, if they keep this up.

I have a hard time believing that there wasn't a DT/NT on someone's practice squad - I'd rather see us take a chance on a young player with potential, than a broke-dick vet who has no redeeming qualities other than knowing Pioli.

You can't tell me that this guy has more upside than someone like Jason Shirley, who is on the Bengals PS.

[Chiefnj2]

And they'll continue to have no talent, if they keep this up.

I have a hard time believing that there wasn't a DT/NT on someone's practice squad - I'd rather see us take a chance on a young player with potential, than a broke-dick vet who has no redeeming qualities other than knowing Pioli.

You can't tell me that this guy has more upside than someone like Jason Shirley, who is on the Bengals PS.

The Jets just lost Kris Jenkins for the year. Are they raiding someone's practice squad?

[OnTheWarpath15]

The Jets just lost Kris Jenkins for the year. Are they raiding someone's practice squad?

Their own, IIRC.

[The Franchise]

They just signed LSU Defensive Lineman Marlon Favorite to the PS. I guess Richardson is staying for a while?

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/10/21/1094590/chiefs-add-an-lsu-tiger-defensive

Scouting


Analysis
Positives: Active, stout defender with long arms. Uses that length to secure tackles on the line. Chases down the line and hustles downfield after plays. His low center of gravity helps him to get under his man's pads and maintain the line of scrimmage against double teams. Has the strength and hand play to shed blocks and tackle the ballcarrier. Effective spin move when coming after the quarterback. Keeps his eyes in the backfield during the pass rush; will fight until the ball is away. Shows quick, violent hand play at times.



Negatives: Shorter than scouts prefer at defensive tackle. Big in the middle but has only adequate girth. Plays the three-technique for LSU but will be better covering the A-gaps in the NFL. Lacks straight-line speed to catch ballcarriers from behind. Most of his plays behind the line will be due to hustle and good coverage instead of a great initial burst off the snap. Must be more consistent using his hands to defeat cut blocks, although he generally recovers well. Stamina is an issue, as he was part of a constant rotation at LSU.

[DaWolf]

And they'll continue to have no talent, if they keep this up.

I have a hard time believing that there wasn't a DT/NT on someone's practice squad - I'd rather see us take a chance on a young player with potential, than a broke-dick vet who has no redeeming qualities other than knowing Pioli.

You can't tell me that this guy has more upside than someone like Jason Shirley, who is on the Bengals PS.

What he supposedly is, is a vet who knows the system and could probably step in if needed until they either get the young guy who they just added to the PS up to speed, or until they find someone who is in reality better. It's very possible this guy will be cut during the bye week...

[RJ]

Really?

They're this close to going full retard.



That's probably the thing same Kenny Smith said when he heard the news.

[LaChapelle]

I fully understand that they've pretty much written this season off....and I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is the fact that to fill the void they have for players....they grab every person that ever played for the Patriots. That and they're going to go through this season with Goff and Niswanger instead of finding out what they're younger players have.

Shawn Murphy was just cut by the Dolphins. The dude is 26 and would be an upgrade over Goff.

6=16

[L.A. Chieffan]

hes giving up his gig on TNT? i wonder if he can still shoot treys?

[Cosmos]

You'd rather sign guys who played for Buffalo?

I don't get this whole hate thing that people have in regards to signing guys that had been affiliated with another program the current administration is familiar with. Especially when we're talking about a time of year when only scrubs are available on the street. Every administration does it. Parcells signed every Cowboy he could when he went to Miami. Vermeil brought in a ton of Lambs his first year here. It's just natural when the talent level out there is very even to go with the devil you know. If your scout says that there is little difference between dude A and dude B, but dude A played for you and you know what dude A is all about and you feel based on experience that dude A is going to give you max effort, and dude A is also just going to be depth, then you're probably going with dude A.

Now if we were passing on pro bowlers who were sitting at home to sign Patriots scrubs, then yeah, I'd get the complaining...


Wouldn't you think the hardest working GM, would as a result of his uncommon efforts, be able to recognize talent wherever it is?

Pulling a player off another teams practice squad because you have scouted his game tapes and see potential says you're working hard and trying your best to maximize talent.

To just go thru the pile of names and pulling out old NE/MIA/DAL players says you're really not doing your job and using famularity as the main reason for signing the players you do.

Can't continue to think that because these players have ties, that they are the best players to sign.

Maybe Pioli is not really the talent evaluator people thing he is...

[LaChapelle]

What was South Park Kenny's last name

[RedThat]

Laz your question is answered.

[SDChiefs]

22 guys off the street....

Yeah, but why do they have to be 22 guys off New England streets?

[LaChapelle]

I'm going to pull a KnowMo, :LOL:

John Clayton:

The Atlanta Falcons, New York Jets and San Diego Chargers would love to acquire a run-stopping defensive tackle, but there aren't enough available. Each team has suffered a season-ending injury at defensive tackle, but finding replacements this late is impossible. Most teams want to hold on to defensive tackles because they are too hard to find.

[SDChiefs]

They just signed LSU Defensive Lineman Marlon Favorite to the PS. I guess Richardson is staying for a while?

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/10/21/1094590/chiefs-add-an-lsu-tiger-defensive

They should have just waited and drafted him first round next year. What other LSU player, that has connections to the Patriots can they draft?

[Chiefnj2]

Kenny Smith can try to help hold down the fort for a week or two since he has some familiarity with the system. In the meantime hopefully the latest LSU member can get up to speed and be activated in a few weeks.

[raybec 4]

This

True, he would be an upgrade but you can guarantee some fuckin idiot will bitch about signing him because he came from the Phins. We could sign Vince Wilfork and somebody would be a bitch cause he used to be a Pat.

[LaChapelle]

Dorsey
Bowe
Russell
Smith probably weighs in closer to 400 right now lol

[Sure-Oz]

True, he would be an upgrade but you can guarantee some ****in idiot will bitch about signing him because he came from the Phins. We could sign Vince Wilfork and somebody would be a bitch cause he used to be a Pat.

that person would be a tard, cause wilfork is good

[Mr. Arrowhead]

True, he would be an upgrade but you can guarantee some ****in idiot will bitch about signing him because he came from the Phins. We could sign Vince Wilfork and somebody would be a bitch cause he used to be a Pat.

Yup i agree, some chiefs fans have to bitch about something

[nychief]

bitching about pick ups like this... no matter where they are from is fucking stupid.

[HemiEd]

Yep, yestereday it was bitching because there were no back up for Edwards.

[The Franchise]

Yep, yestereday it was bitching because there were no back up for Edwards.

Dude...they signed a guy who has been on IR for 3 out of the last 5 years.

[patteeu]

Dude...they signed a guy who has been on IR for 3 out of the last 5 years.

In other words, he should be pretty fresh and rested.

[13and3]

It was a stupid decision,trade a 3rd round pick with some talent for a unkown 5th rounder? Hell why not just trade him on draft day. Im not buying in to all this b.s.. We should half kept a 4-3 and drafted offensive line this year, its that simple. Pioli and halley screwed up and misevaluated o-line and wide reciever. Its sort of like taking your car to the mechanic and he just keeps changing parts, costing more money, becuase he can't accurately diagnose the problem to start with. All of the players arent that bad,they are starting for other teams and were getting less than face value for then, its the gm and hc thats driving the wrong way down one way streets, turn the effing bus around, let people off at the right spots, and pick up what you need along the way, or in other words work with what you got and then try to improve from there.

[RustShack]

Smith was a third round pick too :)

[Chief Faithful]

I guess Haley concluded Tank would never become the player he wanted at that position so he moved Tank off the roster and went to the street. Very Jimmy Johnson of him.

[Chief Faithful]

It was a stupid decision,trade a 3rd round pick with some talent for a unkown 5th rounder? Hell why not just trade him on draft day. Im not buying in to all this b.s.. We should half kept a 4-3 and drafted offensive line this year, its that simple. Pioli and halley screwed up and misevaluated o-line and wide reciever. Its sort of like taking your car to the mechanic and he just keeps changing parts, costing more money, becuase he can't accurately diagnose the problem to start with. All of the players arent that bad,they are starting for other teams and were getting less than face value for then, its the gm and hc thats driving the wrong way down one way streets, turn the effing bus around, let people off at the right spots, and pick up what you need along the way, or in other words work with what you got and then try to improve from there.

I don't see it as a screwup I see a GM and HC that know exactly what they want and if the player can't get the job done they will find someone who can. Better than trying to change your plan to accommodate a few players that can't step it up.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

So, we just got worse at DT and we're going to hope that some 5th rnd pick that may not even make the team may make us better, somehow.

yeah, that's the way i see it. i have never understood the concept of trading players for 5th, 6th, or 7th round draft picks. the odds of winning that trade are incredibly low.

[salame]

guess we will be drafting a nose tackle

[Mama Hip Rockets]

bitching about pick ups like this... no matter where they are from is ****ing stupid.

i think people are bitching because this is clearly a downgrade compared to tank tyler.

[Chief Faithful]

guess we will be drafting a nose tackle
I'm betting round 1.

[Chiefnj2]

For weeks I've been reading that Tyler is doing poorly at NT and now people are mad KC got rid of him for a draft pick?

[Mama Hip Rockets]

For weeks I've been reading that Tyler is doing poorly at NT and now people are mad KC got rid of him for a draft pick?

odds are he's doing better than a 5th round draft pick would.

[Mr. Laz]

I don't mind all the moves but it just seems like the guys we are signing don't have much long term value. The Chiefs are putting alot of eggs into one basket this coming offseason.

[HemiEd]

Dude...they signed a guy who has been on IR for 3 out of the last 5 years.

He is just a body they can throw in there, if needed. He must have some low milage on his body. As stated before, it is not about this year, and hasn't been since they traded TG.

[Chiefnj2]

odds are he's doing better than a 5th round draft pick would.

Fields was a 5th round pick.

[HemiEd]

guess we will be drafting a nose tackle

ya think?

[Fish]

People need to grasp the concept that Pioli and Haley have written off this year. They'll do their best, but they realize they have no talent whatsoever.

They obtained a draft pick for a rotational NT and brought in a warm body to replace him for now.

Hopefully they'll do better in the draft in 2010 than they did in 2009 or we will be in the same situation 2-3 years down the road.

I agree with you that they've written off this year. But I'm surprised that people are fine with that. Or more specifically, I'm surprised people are fine with the way they're writing it off. It seems to me that they're writing it off with little regard for the future or actual team building. They're inconsistent with their approach. They preach about the Right 53, but then turn around and sign 50 year old has beens with previous ties to the regime who obviously aren't a part of the future. We have a great opportunity to further evaluate some young talent in actual games, but instead we march out players like Goff week after week with no improvement in sight. If the season is one long evaluation session, why not evaluate players who have a chance of being on the team next season? It's like they know we're bad, but they feel like they have to placate us with veterans here or there because they're afraid young guys will make mistakes. We can't build the team with youth and play mistake free at the same time. They seem to be favoring the mistake free aspect much more than the player evaluation aspect. That's what bothers me about it.

[DaneMcCloud]

I agree with you that they've written off this year. But I'm surprised that people are fine with that. Or more specifically, I'm surprised people are fine with the way they're writing it off. It seems to me that they're writing it off with little regard for the future or actual team building. They're inconsistent with their approach. They preach about the Right 53, but then turn around and sign 50 year old has beens with previous ties to the regime who obviously aren't a part of the future. We have a great opportunity to further evaluate some young talent in actual games, but instead we march out players like Goff week after week with no improvement in sight. If the season is one long evaluation session, why not evaluate players who have a chance of being on the team next season? It's like they know we're bad, but they feel like they have to placate us with veterans here or there because they're afraid young guys will make mistakes. We can't build the team with youth and play mistake free at the same time. They seem to be favoring the mistake free aspect much more than the player evaluation aspect. That's what bothers me about it.

This has been bothering me for weeks. I wish they were raiding practice squads instead of signing old cronies. And "writing off the season"?

If Herm was here and this was happening, people would be going Mongolian Clusterfuck Apeshit.

It just doesn't make any sense, especially for the Executive of the Millennium.

[Buehler445]

I agree with you that they've written off this year. But I'm surprised that people are fine with that. Or more specifically, I'm surprised people are fine with the way they're writing it off. It seems to me that they're writing it off with little regard for the future or actual team building. They're inconsistent with their approach. They preach about the Right 53, but then turn around and sign 50 year old has beens with previous ties to the regime who obviously aren't a part of the future. We have a great opportunity to further evaluate some young talent in actual games, but instead we march out players like Goff week after week with no improvement in sight. If the season is one long evaluation session, why not evaluate players who have a chance of being on the team next season? It's like they know we're bad, but they feel like they have to placate us with veterans here or there because they're afraid young guys will make mistakes. We can't build the team with youth and play mistake free at the same time. They seem to be favoring the mistake free aspect much more than the player evaluation aspect. That's what bothers me about it.

I pretty much agree with this. The other thing about this signing is that there HAS to be someone on the street better than this guy. There has to be. Even if he is a lard ass with bad technique. Throw him in practice. COACH HIM. And maybe he'll contribute later.

[beer bacon]

I don't mind all the moves but it just seems like the guys we are signing don't have much long term value. The Chiefs are putting alot of eggs into one basket this coming offseason.

There is no one of value available at NT right now. There are another three or four teams that need a good NT right now, and they would have jumped all over any that was available. Maybe these are stopgaps until the the off season?

[Chief Faithful]

This has been bothering me for weeks. I wish they were raiding practice squads instead of signing old cronies. And "writing off the season"?

If Herm was here and this was happening, people would be going Mongolian Cluster**** Apeshit.

It just doesn't make any sense, especially for the Executive of the Millennium.


Exactly, I'm not bothered by riding themselves of Tank, but isn't there some developing NT talent on a PS somewhere?

[13and3]

I don't see it as a screwup I see a GM and HC that know exactly what they want and if the player can't get the job done they will find someone who can. Better than trying to change your plan to accommodate a few players that can't step it up.

It is more than changing a few players. It is trying to run a 3-4 when the orginization has spent the past 3 years devolping a 4-3. The pick of tyson/ and mcgee should have been offensive line picks, i seen it, you seen it we all knew it. We give these guys to much credit. You could have start acquiring players,transitoning,and excuting 3-4 over the next season or two. They are pounding circles in square holes and throwing away good parts in the proccess.

[Sure-Oz]

i love signing a guy that hasn't played in many years, might as well suitup pioli at LB

[OnTheWarpath15]

Christ, Schefter says this guy plays DE in the 3-4, not DT.

ROFL

[BigMeatballDave]

People need to grasp the concept that Pioli and Haley have written off this year. They'll do their best, but they realize they have no talent whatsoever.

They obtained a draft pick for a rotational NT and brought in a warm body to replace him for now.

Hopefully they'll do better in the draft in 2010 than they did in 2009 or we will be in the same situation 2-3 years down the road.Yep. It has occurred to me over the a last few weeks that this season is really about finding a core group of guys they can build around.

[OctoberFart]

HOF rack it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yep. It has occurred to me over the a last few weeks that this season is really about finding a core group of guys they can build around.

I'll get railed for "being negative", but who have they found?

They've brought in over 30 new players, and not one is out-performing the guy he replaced.

Did Carl, Herm and DV leave the cupboard bare? Absolutely.

But is it too much to ask out of the "executive of the decade" to find maybe one or two upgrades out of the 30+ players he brought in? As shitty as things were when he took the job, you wouldn't think it would be THAT difficult.

[Fish]

I'll get railed for "being negative", but who have they found?

They've brought in over 30 new players, and not one is out-performing the guy he replaced.

Did Carl, Herm and DV leave the cupboard bare? Absolutely.

But is it too much to ask out of the "executive of the decade" to find maybe one or two upgrades out of the 30+ players he brought in? As shitty as things were when he took the job, you wouldn't think it would be THAT difficult.

On top of that... of the players who were here last season, who is showing obvious improvement over their performance last season? There were countless claims that we'd be better simply by having better coaches.

How many players can you say have actually improved over last year? That bothers me a bit too.

More change is needed...

[patteeu]

I'll get railed for "being negative", but who have they found?

They've brought in over 30 new players, and not one is out-performing the guy he replaced.

Did Carl, Herm and DV leave the cupboard bare? Absolutely.

But is it too much to ask out of the "executive of the decade" to find maybe one or two upgrades out of the 30+ players he brought in? As shitty as things were when he took the job, you wouldn't think it would be THAT difficult.

Hali?

[Titty Meat]

lol @ Cassel & Vrabel not out playing the guy they replaced.

[DeezNutz]

lol @ Cassel & Vrabel not out playing the guy they replaced.

Cassel, I believe, is a FAR more talented QB than Thigpen. Not even close.

But, based on his performance thus far this year in a different offensive system, has he really outperformed what that skeleton fucker did in the water pistol?

Yes, one system is far more viable for long-term success, but Cassel hasn't been sharp at all.

[Bill Lundberg]

I'll get railed for "being negative", but who have they found?

They've brought in over 30 new players, and not one is out-performing the guy he replaced.

Did Carl, Herm and DV leave the cupboard bare? Absolutely.

But is it too much to ask out of the "executive of the decade" to find maybe one or two upgrades out of the 30+ players he brought in? As shitty as things were when he took the job, you wouldn't think it would be THAT difficult.

I'll take a stab at this. No one is head and shoulders above any of the departed, but the following have to be worth consideration.

* Cassel
* Vrabel
* Mays
* Jackson
* Succop

The front office made a huge mistake by not addressing our offensive line. I think we can all agree on that, however if they successfully address that this off season we have just a few holes to fill on the defensive side of the ball and we stand to improve greatly. This off season will tell the true story of what we have for a front office in my opinion. I don't think they realized how bad things were until it was too late, which is no excuse, it's their job to know.

[Hydrae]

Yep. It has occurred to me over the a last few weeks that this season is really about finding a core group of guys they can build around.

What core are they finding that wasn't already here? I'll give you Cassell. Who else? Goff? Vrabel? Wade? :shrug:

[Buehler445]

Cassel, I believe, is a FAR more talented QB than Thigpen. Not even close.

But, based on his performance thus far this year in a different offensive system, has he really outperformed what that skeleton fucker did in the water pistol?

Yes, one system is far more viable for long-term success, but Cassel hasn't been sharp at all.

Conversely, if you stuck thiggy in a scheme that is viable for long term, his performance would be much MUCH worse than Cassel's, IMO.

OTW and Fish have good points, though. I really wish they'd been more aggressive in finding anybody on the OL and depth at NT. Like I said before, I'd rather see a young fatass that could be something than a guy that's been out of football for several years.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

I'll get railed for "being negative", but who have they found?

They've brought in over 30 new players, and not one is out-performing the guy he replaced.

Did Carl, Herm and DV leave the cupboard bare? Absolutely.

But is it too much to ask out of the "executive of the decade" to find maybe one or two upgrades out of the 30+ players he brought in? As shitty as things were when he took the job, you wouldn't think it would be THAT difficult.

succop.HEAD AND SHOULDERS better so far. if you wanted one or two you could find them.

[DeezNutz]

Conversely, if you stuck Thigpen in a scheme that is viable for long term, his performance would be much MUCH worse than Cassel's, IMO.

OTW and Fish have good points, though. I really wish they'd been more aggressive in finding anybody on the OL and depth at NT. Like I said before, I'd rather see a young fatass that could be something than a guy that's been out of football for several years.
Posted via Mobile Device

I don't disagree with that.

But, I admit, I expected much more than Thigpen-like production, no matter the type of system.

[Buehler445]

I'll take a stab at this. No one is head and shoulders above any of the departed, but the following have to be worth consideration.

* Cassel
* Vrabel
* Mays
* Jackson

The front office made a huge mistake by not addressing our offensive line. I think we can all agree on that, however if they successfully address that this off season we have just a few holes to fill on the defensive side of the ball and we stand to improve greatly. This off season will tell the true story of what we have for a front office in my opinion. I don't think they realized how bad things were until it was too late, which is no excuse, it's their job to know.

I think you can definitely add Succop to that list. (You have no idea how much joy I got from watching Tynes miss ANOTHER one in Arrowhead)

Plus kickoff and punt coverage has been a major improvement.

I think you look at the play of the front 7 as a unit and there is tremendous improvement. ESPECAILLY in gap discipline. Have you guys forgotten the Tennesee and Carolina games from last year?

The major problem is those improvements have been negated by not replacing TG with a legit threat. Now Bowe is double teamed and can't do shit. add in the fact that the OL may have REGRESSED (?! ZOMG WTF?).

So in total, you're right, this team hasn't shown a lot of net improvement.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Buehler445]

I don't disagree with that.

But, I admit, I expected much more than Thigpen-like production, no matter the type of system.

No arguement. At least Cassel isn't throwing 5 picks a game like thigpen was for awhile.
Posted via Mobile Device

['Hamas' Jenkins]

"I never heard of half these guys, and the ones I do know are way past their prime."

"Most of these guys never had a prime."

I wondered why we signed this guy, then I saw:

He spent the 2007 offseason with the New England Patriots before being released. He later signed with the Patriots the following offseason, where he was placed on injured reserve for the season.

[Fish]

I'll take a stab at this. No one is head and shoulders above any of the departed, but the following have to be worth consideration.

* Cassel
* Vrabel
* Mays
* Jackson
* Succop

The front office made a huge mistake by not addressing our offensive line. I think we can all agree on that, however if they successfully address that this off season we have just a few holes to fill on the defensive side of the ball and we stand to improve greatly. This off season will tell the true story of what we have for a front office in my opinion. I don't think they realized how bad things were until it was too late, which is no excuse, it's their job to know.

Cassel appears more talented for sure. But the production isn't any better. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt though with the terrible management of the OLine. But so far I can't say Cassel has really outperformed Thiggy. I'd rather have Cassel any day though.

Vrabel yes.

Mays no. I disagree with that.

Jackson... too early to tell really. He's been very inconsistent with flashes of acceptability.

Succop absolutely a hell yes. It feels so good to see some kickoffs into the endzone instead of the 15 yd line.

[Halfcan]

wow sounds pretty brittle and fat

[Buehler445]

Cassel appears more talented for sure. But the production isn't any better. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt though with the terrible management of the OLine. But so far I can't say Cassel has really outperformed Thiggy. I'd rather have Cassel any day though.

Vrabel yes.

Mays no. I disagree with that.

Jackson... too early to tell really. He's been very inconsistent with flashes of acceptability.

Succop absolutely a hell yes. It feels so good to see some kickoffs into the endzone instead of the 15 yd line.

The Cassel bit is tough, because is it him or the OL? Grand scheme of things it doesn't matter because the production is not there, but for the sake of this discussion, it is really hard to tell.

From the front 7, I don't think we can point to anyone, except maybe Hali and say that he is doing better, but the fact that we haven't been horidly gashed in the run game (Chokeland, Tennessee, Carolina..about everyone else) speaks to significant improvement up front. Again for the sake of this discussion, it's difficult to point to one guy and say, he's a major improvement, but improvement is there. Unfortunately everyone in the secondary forgot how to tackle.
Posted via Mobile Device

[chiefzilla1501]

A lot of griping about nothing. Was trading Tank the right thing to do? Yes. He was never going to be a fit in a 4-3, so we might as well get value out of him. A 5th round pick isn't bad for a guy we were going to cut anyway.

What is Kenny Smith's job? He has to stay healthy enough to play a few snaps per game. And my guess is, he has to stay healthy enough until they feel relatively comfortable with Marlon Favorite.

It's not that bad guys. I don't understand why you add Mike Richardson or that LB they brought in from NE. Or Guttierez for that matter. But this guy's a stopgap NT that they're going to throw away after a few games anyway. Who cares who it is?

[RedThat]

I'll take a stab at this. No one is head and shoulders above any of the departed, but the following have to be worth consideration.

* Cassel
* Vrabel
* Mays
* Jackson
* Succop

The front office made a huge mistake by not addressing our offensive line. I think we can all agree on that, however if they successfully address that this off season we have just a few holes to fill on the defensive side of the ball and we stand to improve greatly. This off season will tell the true story of what we have for a front office in my opinion. I don't think they realized how bad things were until it was too late, which is no excuse, it's their job to know.

I agree with this. However, one can also look at the Chiefs roster in the off-season and say, "there are plenty of holes to fill and plenty of positions to address." Now it boils down to choosing which positions are going to be addressed with the best possible talent out there. And the Chiefs did that and went defense. Now, unfortunately, because there are so many holes on the team, they can't fill every position. The Chiefs are a long term solution. Bottomline. Rome wasn't built in one day and neither will the Chiefs. I think its really important to understand this concept. It takes a while to rebuild a bad team. Pioli has a tough job ahead of him and he isn't going to address all positions in one night. He is trying to do it slowly and even though he went in the direction of defense, nature calls that other positions are not going to addressed. And it's understandable. This season that came at the expense of the offensive line. He will have plenty of opportunity this off-season imo. The Chiefs have lots of draft picks so they should be in a position where they can possibly select 3 or 4 offensive lineman in the draft.

[chiefzilla1501]

I agree with this. However, one can also look at the Chiefs roster in the off-season and say, "there are plenty of holes to fill and plenty of positions to address." Now it boils down to choosing which positions are going to be addressed with the best possible talent out there. And the Chiefs did that and went defense. Now, unfortunately, because there are so many holes on the team, they can't fill every position. The Chiefs are a long term solution. Bottomline. Rome wasn't built in one day and neither will the Chiefs. I think its really important to understand this concept. It takes a while to rebuild a bad team. Pioli has a tough job ahead of him and he isn't going to address all positions in one night. He is trying to do it slowly and even though he went in the direction of defense, nature calls that other positions are not going to addressed. And it's understandable. This season that came at the expense of the offensive line. He will have plenty of opportunity this off-season imo. The Chiefs have lots of draft picks so they should be in a position where they can select 3 or 4 lineman in the draft.

Rome wasn't built in a day. But if I'm building Rome, I figure out the right things to focus on building first. You don't start by building a roof if you haven't built the foundation.

They got their quarterback but they didn't get him any kind of protection to develop off of. That was a huge mistake. And what's worse is that the two guys in the 3rd and 4th round who we chose to take defense instead of an offensive linemen are doing pretty much nothing for us right now.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Hali?

Hali is new?

[Fish]

The Cassel bit is tough, because is it him or the OL? Grand scheme of things it doesn't matter because the production is not there, but for the sake of this discussion, it is really hard to tell.

From the front 7, I don't think we can point to anyone, except maybe Hali and say that he is doing better, but the fact that we haven't been horidly gashed in the run game (Chokeland, Tennessee, Carolina..about everyone else) speaks to significant improvement up front. Again for the sake of this discussion, it's difficult to point to one guy and say, he's a major improvement, but improvement is there. Unfortunately everyone in the secondary forgot how to tackle.
Posted via Mobile Device

Well I attribute some of that to a complete change in defensive scheme. We're still giving up way too many yards, despite how they're coming. Yes we've improved run D, but total yards is still ugly.

Compare the defensive stats for the first 6 games last year to this year:

2008 Defense
---Total yards--Pass yards--Run Yards:

Game 1: 338 ----- 212 ------- 126
Game 2: 355 ----- 55 ------- 300
Game 3: 378 ----- 192 ------ 186
Game 4: 446 ----- 352 ------ 94
Game 5: 441 ----- 236 ------- 205
Game 6: 455 ----- 123 ------- 332


2009 Defense
---Total yards--Pass yards--Run Yards:
Game 1: 501 ----- 303 ------ 198
Game 2: 166 ----- 99 ------- 67
Game 3: 420 ----- 327 ------- 93
Game 4: 429 ----- 273 ------ 156
Game 5: 498 ----- 348 ------ 150
Game 6: 265 ----- 147 ------ 118

[OnTheWarpath15]

succop.HEAD AND SHOULDERS better so far. if you wanted one or two you could find them.

I was referencing the 30+ guys they brought in via FA and trades.

Too early to really evaluate draft picks, though Succop has been great so far.

[Bill Lundberg]

Rome wasn't built in a day. But if I'm building Rome, I figure out the right things to focus on building first. You don't start by building a roof if you haven't built the foundation.


Well said

[OnTheWarpath15]

"I never heard of half these guys, and the ones I do know are way past their prime."

"Most of these guys never had a prime."

I wondered why we signed this guy, then I saw:

He spent the 2007 offseason with the New England Patriots before being released. He later signed with the Patriots the following offseason, where he was placed on injured reserve for the season.

Haley: This guy is dead.

Pioli: Well, cross him off, then.

[Bill Lundberg]

Haley: This guy is dead.

Pioli: Well, cross him off, then.

LMAO

[Bill Lundberg]

Well I attribute some of that to a complete change in defensive scheme. We're still giving up way too many yards, despite how they're coming. Yes we've improved run D, but total yards is still ugly.

Compare the defensive stats for the first 6 games last year to this year:

2008 Defense
---Total yards--Pass yards--Run Yards:

Game 1: 338 ----- 212 ------- 126
Game 2: 355 ----- 55 ------- 300
Game 3: 378 ----- 192 ------ 186
Game 4: 446 ----- 352 ------ 94
Game 5: 441 ----- 236 ------- 205
Game 6: 455 ----- 123 ------- 332


2009 Defense
---Total yards--Pass yards--Run Yards:
Game 1: 501 ----- 303 ------ 198
Game 2: 166 ----- 99 ------- 67
Game 3: 420 ----- 327 ------- 93
Game 4: 429 ----- 273 ------ 156
Game 5: 498 ----- 348 ------ 150
Game 6: 265 ----- 147 ------ 118

Also consider we're one sack away from having as many as we did all last season.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Rome wasn't built in a day. But if I'm building Rome, I figure out the right things to focus on building first. You don't start by building a roof if you haven't built the foundation.

They got their quarterback but they didn't get him any kind of protection to develop off of. That was a huge mistake. And what's worse is that the two guys in the 3rd and 4th round who we chose to take defense instead of an offensive linemen are doing pretty much nothing for us right now.

Dude, no one is asking for the city to be built.

But you keep avoiding the question:

Who out of the 30+ guys that Pioli brought in via FA and trade is performing better than their predecessor?

[SAUTO]

Dude, no one is asking for the city to be built.

But you keep avoiding the question:

Who out of the 30+ guys that Pioli brought in via FA and trade is performing better than their predecessor?

wade essentially replaced hell i cant even remember his name, herm's son's boyfriend.

and no one has really avoided the question, it just has changed somewhat during the discussion

[RedThat]

Rome wasn't built in a day. But if I'm building Rome, I figure out the right things to focus on building first. You don't start by building a roof if you haven't built the foundation.

They got their quarterback but they didn't get him any kind of protection to develop off of. That was a huge mistake. And what's worse is that the two guys in the 3rd and 4th round who we chose to take defense instead of an offensive linemen are doing pretty much nothing for us right now.

I agree. But, can't use that analogy when it comes to building a football team.

Can't look at it from a construction point of view. It's confusing yes, however, I think it's fair to use the phase "Rome wasn't built in one day", that is relevant to time. Meaning, it's gonna take time.

In football I think its important to understand that every time your team prepares itself for the draft, they have to look at what type of products are being supplied by the market itself. For example, one year you may enter the draft and find that the draft is deep and strong in linebackers or another year you may find that the draft is deep in quarterbacks. Now, during those years the draft could be really weak in offensive lineman. Whatever the case may be, you have to look at the Chiefs as a team and say, "well, they do have a lot of holes, should they take a linebacker when they need one? Absolutely. Should they take an offensive lineman when they need one? Probably not." Because there are better linebackers then there are Offensive lineman. And that's my point, bad teams are going to build based in combination upon what's best available and address to the positions of need.

[OnTheWarpath15]

wade essentially replaced hell i cant even remember his name, herm's son's boyfriend.

and no one has really avoided the question, it just has changed somewhat during the discussion

No, Bradley was the WR2 last year, and he did a pretty damn good job, considering.

Now, he can't find the field, and it's not because Wade is more talented.

[irishjayhawk]

There's definitely room in the middle. And that's where I camp.

The picking up of Patriot after Patriot is tiring. But then there's one thing that's clear: he's trying to build this team up from the draft on. So I can't see why people are complaining the younguns via FA aren't getting time to prove themselves.

I'm of the opinion, which seems more fact than opinion when you look at the draft history, that Carl left the cupboard extremely bare. In that respect, these stop gaps make perfect sense. Perhaps they aren't necessarily the 100% best choice available, but does it really matter with their only purpose (at the very least) being a stop-gap.

As many have said, it seems at this juncture fans are bitching about anything and everything just to bitch.

[patteeu]

Hali is new?

He's playing in a new position. Besides, all of the Chiefs players are new to this regime. They aren't looking for the same qualities that the last regime was looking for (for example, they're looking for 3-4 defenders not 4-3 cover 2 defenders) and they didn't have experience with the players who were on the roster. Some of the players we thought the last regime had "found" may have been lost or may never have really been found to begin with. The slate was wiped clean and aside from a possible contractual issue here or there, everyone had to prove themselves.

[Buehler445]

Well I attribute some of that to a complete change in defensive scheme. We're still giving up way too many yards, despite how they're coming. Yes we've improved run D, but total yards is still ugly.

Compare the defensive stats for the first 6 games last year to this year:

2008 Defense
---Total yards--Pass yards--Run Yards:

Game 1: 338 ----- 212 ------- 126
Game 2: 355 ----- 55 ------- 300
Game 3: 378 ----- 192 ------ 186
Game 4: 446 ----- 352 ------ 94
Game 5: 441 ----- 236 ------- 205
Game 6: 455 ----- 123 ------- 332


2009 Defense
---Total yards--Pass yards--Run Yards:
Game 1: 501 ----- 303 ------ 198
Game 2: 166 ----- 99 ------- 67
Game 3: 420 ----- 327 ------- 93
Game 4: 429 ----- 273 ------ 156
Game 5: 498 ----- 348 ------ 150
Game 6: 265 ----- 147 ------ 118

That's totally fair and accurate. But like I said earlier, some of the changes they've made have been improvements. Unfortunately they're offset by other areas getting even shittier.
Posted via Mobile Device

[LaChapelle]

You know Herm is still on the books :fire:
Try him a NT

[Buehler445]

Dude, no one is asking for the city to be built.

But you keep avoiding the question:

Who out of the 30+ guys that Pioli brought in via FA and trade is performing better than their predecessor?

I gave a few examples, but the biggest thing is that there hasn't been much (if any) NET improvement in the team.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SDChiefs]

i love signing a guy that hasn't played in many years, might as well suitup pioli at LB

Cassel anyone? He didn't play for 8 years and then had a decent season with a record breaking offense and they traded for him and signed him to a 60 mil deal. Maybe thats what they are planning. To actually get 22 guys off the street that haven't played in a decade to prove Haleys comment to Waters.

[Hammock Parties]

No, Bradley was the WR2 last year, and he did a pretty damn good job, considering.

Now, he can't find the field, and it's not because Wade is more talented.

WTF?

Bradley finds the field every stinking week and contributes in some way.

Some of you will say anything to discredit Pioli and/or Haley, even if it's false. It's getting quite annoying.

[DeezNutz]

Some of you will say anything to discredit Pioli and/or Haley, even if it's false. It's getting quite annoying.

And some will say anything to slob Pioli and/or Haley, even if it's false, which has long since become quite annoying.

[milkman]

I agree. But, can't use that analogy when it comes to building a football team.

Can't look at it from a construction point of view. It's confusing yes, however, I think it's fair to use the phase "Rome wasn't built in one day", that is relevant to time. Meaning, it's gonna take time.

In football I think its important to understand that every time your team prepares itself for the draft, they have to look at what type of products are being supplied by the market itself. For example, one year you may enter the draft and find that the draft is deep and strong in linebackers or another year you may find that the draft is deep in quarterbacks. Now, during those years the draft could be really weak in offensive lineman. Whatever the case may be, you have to look at the Chiefs as a team and say, "well, they do have a lot of holes, should they take a linebacker when they need one? Absolutely. Should they take an offensive lineman when they need one? Probably not." Because there are better linebackers then there are Offensive lineman. And that's my point, bad teams are going to build based in combination upon what's best available and address to the positions of need.

Uh.......last year's draft was deep in O-Line.

You don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

[chiefzilla1501]

Dude, no one is asking for the city to be built.

But you keep avoiding the question:

Who out of the 30+ guys that Pioli brought in via FA and trade is performing better than their predecessor?

Avoiding the question? It's the first time anybody ever asked me it.

I don't think the Chiefs made many good moves this offseason, nor have I ever claimed such. The only thing I've said is that Cassel is better than a lot of the doubters think.

[RedThat]

Uh.......last year's draft was deep in O-Line.

You don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about.


And if they did take Oline they'd still be weak at a lot of areas.

the point is the team has a bunch of holes to fill. you can address certain areas on this team and neglect others easily. Especially on this team. If the Olinemen were good and had the Chiefs took them, people would still bitch and complain how they didn't address other areas of the team i.e., defense, wrs etc...without even conceiving the thought that this rebuilding process is a long term solution. That is the point Im trying to imply. It's gonna take time and we all need to relax and be patient.

[RedThat]

And btw, milkman next time read the post before making comments.

I didn't SPECIFICALLY MENTION last year's draft. Im just using case scenarios to support an example.

[Just Passin' By]

A team with 7 wins in its last 38 games got a draft pick for a backup player who wasn't in the team's future plans, and people are complaining?

Are people worried that the 29th rank defense in terms of yardage will give up more yards if the starter goes down, or is it that the lofty 26th position in scoring defense would be in jeopardy?

[Just Passin' By]

I fully understand that they've pretty much written this season off....and I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is the fact that to fill the void they have for players....they grab every person that ever played for the Patriots. That and they're going to go through this season with Goff and Niswanger instead of finding out what they're younger players have.

Shawn Murphy was just cut by the Dolphins. The dude is 26 and would be an upgrade over Goff.

Tampa claimed Murphy, so the Chiefs couldn't have gotten him.

[ChiefsCountry]

Tampa claimed Murphy, so the Chiefs couldn't have gotten him.

Chiefs have a hirer claim than the Bucs. If they put in a wavier claim, they could have gotten him.

[Just Passin' By]

Chiefs have a hirer claim than the Bucs. If they put in a wavier claim, they could have gotten him.

The Bucs are winless and have priority over the Chiefs at this point in the season.