Again I look back and realize how lucky we were to have DV as our HC.

[chiefsfan1963]

I knew despite the criticism of me on this board for my comments regarding DV that his leaving would spell doom to this franchise especially for the fact that CP didn't go with him.

Despite the problems on our D it was down right fun to watch DV's Chiefs. They had the top rated Offense those 5 years with DV and Saunders. One of the best olines ever. Every time the O got on the field you knew they would score. DV wasn't perfect but he did a lot for the fans in terms of giving them a good time and hope. Something that has not been with us since his departure.

He had 2 losing seasons out of 5 with 6-10 in 2001 and 7-9 in 2004. Chief's fans today would call this winning seasons.

The bottomline was DV's Chiefs were competitive and had a lot respect around the league.

Today Chiefs are pitied.

I bet you LJ even misses DV.

Just like this country and many of the States we need better leadership for this team to turn it around and start gaining some confidence and start winning again. I think DV had the right stuff to be a leader for this franchise. I'm just not sure if the current leadership has it or not.

Even when the DV's Chiefs had a losing season you knew they were making progress and were still competitive. I have not felt this way since his departure and I still don't feel this way with the new 2009 management team.

I hope this changes and I get that feeling again. When you don't even bother to find out if the Chief's won or loss until Monday morning, you know that things got change.

[L.A. Chieffan]

jesus tittyfucking christ

[Mr. Laz]

the problem was drafting still sucked under Vermiel

but then again the draft picks suck under every Chiefs coach since Marty

[DaneMcCloud]

Shut the fuck up

[Stinger]

jesus titty****ing christ

I take it you are not familiar with 1963 negative and whoa is us stych.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Pining for mediocrity. It's the Chief Planet Way!

[Brock]

It's DV's fault as much as anyone else's that this team is where it is right now.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

It's DV's fault as much as anyone else's that this team is where it is right now.

4 offseasons

[HemiEd]

DV's teams were fun to watch, no denying that.

That shit yesterday, was like stabbing yourself in the face and putting salt on the wound.

I blame LJ, he is the cancer.

[Red Brooklyn]

Yeah, I liked DV. And I had fun watching the Chiefs under him. But there's no point in looking back. Those were flawed years too. Just in different ways. This sucks right now, but I hope - dear Jesus, I HOPE - that what we're seeing is a real, genuine rebuilding process. It sucks. But it needs to happen.

[Stinger]

LMAO LMAO LMAO at the idea of 20 years of Carl is going to be magically turned around in 1 year.

[teedubya]

Well, if Carl hadn't traded down for Johnson and instead drafted Troy Paluamalu... our defenses would have been a bit better during the DV years.

[chiefsfan1963]

Yeah, I liked DV. And I had fun watching the Chiefs under him. But there's no point in looking back. Those were flawed years too. Just in different ways. This sucks right now, but I hope - dear Jesus, I HOPE - that what we're seeing is a real, genuine rebuilding process. It sucks. But it needs to happen.

Yeah I'm hoping too. I agree DV was flawed in many ways, but he had a lot that he did right. I'm just not sure what I'm seeing is good anywhere. Also like I said even when the Chiefs were losing when DV was the HC I still felt there was hope and progress. i'm not feeling it right now. God I want to believe me.

[BigMeatballDave]

DV? LMAO His legacy is still haunting us, dumbshit...

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah I'm hoping too. I agree DV was flawed in many ways, but he had a lot that he did right. I'm just not sure what I'm seeing is good anywhere. Also like I said even when the Chiefs were losing when DV was the HC I still felt there was hope and progress. i'm not feeling it right now. God I want to believe me.

What did he do right, Dumbfuck?

He FUCKED us in the draft. Instead of Drew Brees in 2001, he traded for Trent Green, who had four decent seasons and two shit seasons. Drew Brees is one of the best QB's in the league today.

Draft picks were traded for DV, Roaf and Welbourn, none of which are with the Chiefs today. He traded away Scott Fujita, a productive starter. Under his "guidance", he and his cronies drafted Ryan Sims instead of left tackle like Bryant McKinnie, who's still starting for the Vikings and would have negated the Roaf trade.

He drafted defensive line because it was an area of need, not because they were the best players were available. In 2005, they passed on Aaron Rodgers and took Derrick Johnson, who's play hasn't even equaled Scott Fujita's (who was a 5th rounder).

All in all, Dick Vermeil is the reason why this team is completely devoid of talent.

[Mr. Plow]

Despite the problems on our D it was down right fun to watch DV's Chiefs. They had the top rated Offense those 5 years with DV and Saunders. One of the best olines ever. Every time the O got on the field you knew they would score. DV wasn't perfect but he did a lot for the fans in terms of giving them a good time and hope. Something that has not been with us since his departure.


I agree. If nothing else, they were fun teams to watch.

[Baby Lee]

Well, if Carl hadn't traded down for Johnson and instead drafted Troy Paluamalu... Troy would be in the Arena league today

FYP

[RealSNR]

Does Dick Vermeil possess a vial of ageless elixir and can bring back Roaf, Shields, Wiegman, Holmes, and Richardson? Hell, I'll even take midget boy Dante Hall at this point.

But guess what. He didn't STABILIZE the team. The team he had was there for a couple seasons and was centered around its veterans. Once they were gone, we had no good draft choices, no good defense, and ONE good player in Jared Allen, whom we traded away.

Herm didn't have much to work with, and made things even worse. But that was Vermeil's fault to begin with.

Had we even won a goddamn playoff game this team-building strategy MIGHT be forgiveable. He even failed at that.

You never listen to this reasoning. We suck right now because of Vermeil. You never get that through your head, dipshit.

[notorious]

Yeah I'm hoping too. I agree DV was flawed in many ways, but he had a lot that he did right. I'm just not sure what I'm seeing is good anywhere. Also like I said even when the Chiefs were losing when DV was the HC I still felt there was hope and progress. i'm not feeling it right now. God I want to believe me.

I agree with your hope statement. The 03'-05' Chiefs could blow out any team in the NFL.


The problem was is it went both ways. We lost to way to many shitty teams or gave up leads to teams that the Chiefs were dominating (Dallas, Philly).

I still remember cussing the offense for losing some of those games. Now I look back and it was obvious that I went full retard during those lapses. The defense was so bad that we probably would have been better off onside kicking after every touchdown.

I would kill to have 65% of that offense now. Wasted years.

[wild1]

Vermeil would have worked out well with a defensive coordinator, and with someone to draft for him.

[jidar]

I liked DV the whole time we had him.

He had teams that were just a player or two away from being in the SB... but somehow a lot of people on this board thought those teams sucked which boggles me.

[BigMeatballDave]

DV's teams were fun to watch, no denying that.

Oh, they were. The problem with DV is he was clueless when it came to D. Plus, how many quality players were drafted under DV?

[-King-]

What did he do right, Dumb****?

He ****ED us in the draft. Instead of Drew Brees in 2001, he traded for Trent Green, who had four decent seasons and two shit seasons. Drew Brees is one of the best QB's in the league today.

Draft picks were traded for DV, Roaf and Welbourn, none of which are with the Chiefs today. He traded away Scott Fujita, a productive starter. Under his "guidance", he and his cronies drafted Ryan Sims instead of left tackle like Bryant McKinnie, who's still starting for the Vikings and would have negated the Roaf trade.

He drafted defensive line because it was an area of need, not because they were the best players were available. In 2005, they passed on Aaron Rodgers and took Derrick Johnson, who's play hasn't even equaled Scott Fujita's (who was a 5th rounder).

All in all, Dick Vermeil is the reason why this team is completely devoid of talent.

I agree with your post except the part about Brees. Wouldn't you guys have been wailing on DV for drafting a short qb who operated from the spread offense in college?

[Baby Lee]

DV is the advent of the worst, and most embarrassing, D in the history of the NFL, and is the source of the severe lack of talent throughout the team. Glad you had fun watching the offense desperately trying to overcome their utter inability to do the thing that makes you a champion [playing defense].

[BigMeatballDave]

I liked DV the whole time we had him.

He had teams that were just a player or two away from being in the SB... but somehow a lot of people on this board thought those teams sucked which boggles me.Our O was great, not doubt. He did squat for the D. It was a glaring issue that he never resolved.

[Brock]

I agree with your post except the part about Brees. Wouldn't you guys have been wailing on DV for drafting a short qb who operated from the spread offense in college?

I think most people would gladly have admitted they were wrong about that one.

[BigMeatballDave]

LMAO LMAO LMAO at the idea of 20 years of Carl is going to be magically turned around in 1 year.This x1000

[Baby Lee]

I liked DV the whole time we had him.

He had teams that were just a player or two away from being in the SB... but somehow a lot of people on this board thought those teams sucked which boggles me.

And Schottenheimer had teams that were a PLAY or two away, but he's the anti-Christ.

[13and3]

I miss the D.V. era, but you should now by now all past coaches suck and are the reason we are where we are right now.

[-King-]

I think most people would gladly have admitted they were wrong about that one.

Hindsight is 20/20

[Bwana]

Oh no you didn't!!

http://www.digitalbricabrac.com/gifs/Picard%20Shooting%20Homer%20Simpson.gif

[BigMeatballDave]

He ****ED us in the draft. Instead of Drew Brees in 2001, he traded for Trent Green, who had four decent seasons and two shit seasons. Drew Brees is one of the best QB's in the league today.



He drafted defensive line because it was an area of need, not because they were the best players were available. In 2005, they passed on Aaron Rodgers and took Derrick Johnson, who's play hasn't even equaled Scott Fujita's (who was a 5th rounder).

I just threw up in my mouth a little...

[jidar]

And Schottenheimer had teams that were a PLAY or two away, but he's the anti-Christ.

Actually I don't hate Marty either.

[Fish]

Grandpa Dick was awful.

This forum has completely went to shit today.

[Brock]

Hindsight is 20/20

Right, and with hindsight we can see that Vermeil hit on 3 draft picks overall, if you want to count Derrick Johnson and Larry Johnson as successes. And frankly, you can't even give Vermeil credit for LJ since he never wanted him to begin with.

[13and3]

Any positive outlook on any past coaches in the forum will not be tolerated, and will be prosecuted to the fullest extent by neg rep points.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Jesus Fucking Christ.

[BigMeatballDave]

Actually I don't hate Marty either.9-7/10-6...PLAYOFFS! one and done...

[13and3]

There will also be no fond memories or optimism on c.p. Only disgust and despair will be tolerated.

[DeezNutz]

Grandpa is arguably the single worst poison ever to come into contact with this organization, but I'm glad that some have extracted happy memories from the travesty that was his tenure.

[Saccopoo]

the problem was drafting still sucked under Vermiel

but then again the draft picks suck under every Chiefs coach since Marty

There was the one constant - Carl.

It wasn't the coaches. It was Carl.

2000...2001...2002...

It was like a reoccurring nightmare.

[BigMeatballDave]

Marty was the definition of crazy during the early 90s. Doing the same shit over and over and expecting a different result...

[chiefsfan1963]

DV is the advent of the worst, and most embarrassing, D in the history of the NFL, and is the source of the severe lack of talent throughout the team. Glad you had fun watching the offense desperately trying to overcome their utter inability to do the thing that makes you a champion [playing defense].

Relative to what we have now I'll take it. Everything about this team is embarrassing, and it has been like this the past 4 seasons. DV's Chiefs Offense was the Top 1 to 3 offense's in the whole league 5 consecutive years.

[chiefsfan1963]

There was the one constant - Carl.

It wasn't the coaches. It was Carl.

2000...2001...2002...

It was like a reoccurring nightmare.

Very good point. I totally agree! DV would have succeeded with a better more forward thinking GM.

[-King-]

To put in perspective of how much Grandpa Dick fucked us over; Herm had better drafts than him. Think about that.

[Baby Lee]

9-7/10-6...PLAYOFFS! one and done...

10-6 Twice
9- 7 Twice, only made playoffs once
11-5 Twice
13-3 Twice

[Baby Lee]

Relative to what we have now I'll take it. Everything about this team is embarrassing, and it has been like this the past 4 seasons. DV's Chiefs Offense was the Top 1 to 3 offense's in the whole league 5 consecutive years.
How about instead

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Shitty D is shitty D is shitty D is never doing anything important, ever.

[BigMeatballDave]

Relative to what we have now I'll take it. Everything about this team is embarrassing, and it has been like this the past 4 seasons. DV's Chiefs Offense was the Top 1 to 3 offense's in the whole league 5 consecutive years.Fun to watch, I guess, but it didnt get us any playoff wins, and only one appearance. Unless you wanna count that abortion against the Colts under Herm...

[13and3]

D.V. used to get my hopes up, but at least now with this new regime, I don't have to worry about that anymore.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Marty was the definition of crazy during the early 90s. Doing the same shit over and over and expecting a different result...

Bingo.

It's not that Marty or Dick were the "Anti-Christ". They were both overrated coaches with flawed philosophies that ultimately led to nothing but failure in the games that meant the most.

No matter how many ugly 13-10 shitfests, or 41-38 shitfests we won, the result was the same:

A loss in the playoffs.

[BigMeatballDave]

There was the one constant - Carl.

It wasn't the coaches. It was Carl.

2000...2001...2002...

It was like a reoccurring nightmare.I agree, but dont think for a second DV didnt have a hand in drafting.

[Simply Red]

http://i37.tinypic.com/11mcfte.gif

[BigMeatballDave]

http://i37.tinypic.com/11mcfte.gifROFL

[Baby Lee]

http://i37.tinypic.com/11mcfte.gif

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[chiefsfan1963]

Bingo.

It's not that Marty or Dick were the "Anti-Christ". They were both overrated coaches with flawed philosophies that ultimately led to nothing but failure in the games that meant the most.

No matter how many ugly 13-10 shitfests, or 41-38 shitfests we won, the result was the same:

A loss in the playoffs.

Sorry not true. Chiefs offenses with DV were real good! Top 1 to 3 5 years in a row. Since DV's departure Chiefs have been on Top of nothing including D.
Even when Chiefs had a losing record they were competitive unlike the chiefs the last 4 years. Sorry no comparison the Chiefs today can't hold a candle to DV's Chiefs. They are just plain better and more enjoyable than what we have now.

[BossChief]

Bingo.

It's not that Marty or Dick were the "Anti-Christ". They were both overrated coaches with flawed philosophies that ultimately led to nothing but failure in the games that meant the most.

No matter how many ugly 13-10 shitfests, or 41-38 shitfests we won, the result was the same:

A loss in the playoffs.
BS

give Marty a top ten Qb and he would have won some playoff games.

Give DV a middle of the pack defense and we arent "the only team he never got to a superbowl"

I mean really, we didnt punt in a whole playoff game and we lost?!? I remember I wanted to cry (figuratively speaking) when Priest fumbled on that long run because I knew that sealed the fate. Life of a Chiefs fan...

We had a shot in 2005, but had to be one of the ten or so teams in nfl history to miss the playoffs at 10-6 (and the team that won the tiebreaker over us won the superbowl, Pittsburg)

life of a Chiefs fan

[Saccopoo]

To put in perspective of how much Grandpa Dick ****ed us over; Herm had better drafts than him. Think about that.

I'm not so sure. Herm's drafts look a lot like Dicks. Reaching for marginal players based on need, badly missing the mark on player evaluations, etc.

They got lucky on a couple, but for the most part, if you look at the drafts in totality, they are eerily similar in their makeup.

I think that Carl had a heavy hand in the entire drafting/evaluating process. Probably much more than the coaches themselves.

And when a player actually worked out, it seemed like he screwed that over as well - getting Fujita in the fifth round, having him lead the team in tackles for two straight seasons, then trading him for a sixth round pick?! Are you kidding me? And I won't even begin to address the epic amount of fail associated with the Tait and Allen situations.

Fujita will be always remembered as a Saint. Tait a Bear. Allen a Viking.

When it comes down to brass tacks, the best players that have stuck around the longest have been Dante Hall, Dustin Colquitt, Tamba Hali, Derrick Johnson and Larry Johnson.

Dante and Larry had two really good seasons and that's it. Add to that that Larry has been a team and town cancer. Tamba is a class act, workaholic who should be a solid backup and special teamer. DJ has been a perennial under-performer.

So, when it comes down to it, post Marty era, our best player who we've drafted is/has been a punter.

Awesome sauce Carl.

[BossChief]

Carl was to blame 95%

[Baby Lee]

Sorry not true. Chiefs offenses with DV were real good! Top 1 to 3 5 years in a row. Since DV's departure Chiefs have been on Top of nothing including D.
Even when Chiefs had a losing record they were competitive unlike the chiefs the last 4 years. Sorry no comparison the Chiefs today can't hold a candle to DV's Chiefs. They are just plain better and more enjoyable than what we have now.

Hey dipshit, this one of the worst teams in the league, 'better than now' is no standard whatsoever. The Steadman years were 'better than now' Kotite's Jets were 'better than now. Transformers 2 is 'better than now.'

[Reerun_KC]

All in all, Dick Vermeil and Herm Edwards are the reason why this team is completely devoid of talent.:thumb:

[Reerun_KC]

Again! Welcome to Chiefsplanet!

http://www.technicalpark.com/img_shopping/mini-merry-go-round.jpg

[Saccopoo]

I agree, but dont think for a second DV didnt have a hand in drafting.

I'm sure that all of the coaches did to one degree or another. I remember the Jared Allen thing specifically. Dick was the guy that really wanted him, not Carl. Dick fought like mad for Allen from what I remember.

Then Carl, after buttfucking the franchise in dealing Allen, tries to resurrect him again in the draft in the form of Brian Johnston.

[Bane]

What did he do right, Dumb****?

He ****ED us in the draft. Instead of Drew Brees in 2001, he traded for Trent Green, who had four decent seasons and two shit seasons. Drew Brees is one of the best QB's in the league today.

Draft picks were traded for DV, Roaf and Welbourn, none of which are with the Chiefs today. He traded away Scott Fujita, a productive starter. Under his "guidance", he and his cronies drafted Ryan Sims instead of left tackle like Bryant McKinnie, who's still starting for the Vikings and would have negated the Roaf trade.

He drafted defensive line because it was an area of need, not because they were the best players were available. In 2005, they passed on Aaron Rodgers and took Derrick Johnson, who's play hasn't even equaled Scott Fujita's (who was a 5th rounder).

All in all, Dick Vermeil is the reason why this team is completely devoid of talent.

Hind sight s 20/20 but I didn't like the trade for Green at first cause DV said there was no player in the first round that would contribute like Green would.He turned out ok for us I think.Maybe maybe not,water under the bridge now but to just think of us drafting Brees.:banghead:

[Chiefnj2]

DV left some talent from his regime - Allen, DJ, Fujita, Key Fox (won game for Pitt yesterday), Weigman, Waters, Richardson, Wilkerson, Colquitt, Mitchell. Not a ton, but 4 years and 2 coaches later what do you expect? Some of those guys would still be top producers compared to the talent on the team now.

[13and3]

You fool; Dick=Herm=Marty=Gunther is less than haley times pioli divided by the squre root of 3. Undeniable proof that anything you say positive will suck.

D.V. used to get my hopes up, but at least now with this new regime, I don't have to worry about that anymore.

[BigMeatballDave]

I'm sure that all of the coaches did to one degree or another. I remember the Jared Allen thing specifically. Dick was the guy that really wanted him, not Carl. Dick fought like mad for Allen from what I remember.

Then Carl, after butt****ing the franchise in dealing Allen, tries to resurrect him again in the draft in the form of Brian Johnston.Allen was a shot in the dark.

[Baby Lee]

Hey guys, I just got through watching According to Jim, and I now realize how lucky we were when Family Matters was prime time television.

[Dave Lane]

Ha I just cured much of your red rep. DV was soeciual and I loved watching Dante and Priest and Tony and Trent sigh. Maybe 2 impact defenders and we would have been in the SB :(

[Saccopoo]

Allen was a shot in the dark.

Absolutely. But I distinctly remember that Dick had to fight tooth and nail with Carl for him. I think what won that over for Dick was that he was also a long snapper. Once Carl found that out, spending a fourth round pick on a guy from Idaho State made perfect sense.

[Brock]

BS

give Marty a top ten Qb and he would have won some playoff games.

Give DV a middle of the pack defense and we arent "the only team he never got to a superbowl"



"Give them"? Wasn't it up to them to get one?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

BS

give Marty a top ten Qb and he would have won some playoff games.

Give DV a middle of the pack defense and we arent "the only team he never got to a superbowl"

I mean really, we didnt punt in a whole playoff game and we lost?!? I remember I wanted to cry (figuratively speaking) when Priest fumbled on that long run because I knew that sealed the fate. Life of a Chiefs fan...

We had a shot in 2005, but had to be one of the ten or so teams in nfl history to miss the playoffs at 10-6 (and the team that won the tiebreaker over us won the superbowl, Pittsburg)

life of a Chiefs fan

Keep attributing it to the life of a Chiefs fan, or a miasma, rather than attribute it to the fact that both had fundamental flaws which led to their own demise.

It's not a coincidence that Marty couldn't win in the playoffs, and it's no coincidence that Vermeil failed here, either. Hell, Marty failed with both Brees and Rivers at QB, FFS. The defense wasn't "middle of the pack" because Dick, along with Lynn Stiles, were not only inept at drafting, but inept at developing the players they did have (Wilkerson, Fox, Mitchell, etc.)

[Baby Lee]

Ha I just cured much of your red rep. DV was soeciual and I loved watching Dante and Priest and Tony and Trent sigh. Maybe 2 impact defenders and we would have been in the SB :(

Why'd you do that, making me get all involved and restoring the balance. :shrug:

[CoMoChief]

Well we gave up draft picks and traded for coaches/players, to "win now" DV coming out of retirement to coach for a friend, though still under contract with STL and he knew he left football a little too early....having that said he was old and the team's philosophy was "win now"

It took a couple years and a few trades, but we fielded one of the best offenses ever. Completely sucked on defense and relied on offense to compete. The biggest screw up was the 2002 draft and Ryan Sims.

When you sacrifice the entire future of the team to win now, ignore/fail/trade away picks through the draft....the lifeblood of NFL teams, this is what you're left with.

How many players are still with the Chiefs from the DV era? LJ, Waters, DJ, and Colquitt from the top of my head. FUCKING 4 players in the last 7 seasons.....thats horrible turnover rate. Not to mention we traded away the best pick from his era in Jared Allen...yup still beating that dead horse until it's no longer a problem.

DV's teams were great fun to watch.....running the ball at will is one of the most beatiful things to watch in football along with the perfectly thrown pass. With that Oline....we imposed our will on other teams... other teams would know where we're running it....but the execution along with great vision from Priest Holmes made a match in heaven.

I too miss those days.....but DV's ignorance towards the draft is the reason this team has a bunch of scrubs starting and is depleted with talent. There are about 7-9 Chiefs that could start for other good playoff calibur teams. Flowers, DJ, Dorsey, Bowe, Waters, Charles, maybe Albert. The other 2?!?!? Our punter and kicker....whoopdee fuckin doo!!!!

DV is the reason this team sucks now. Herm IMO was a scapegoat coach....granted his dumbassery didn't help at all, but really he had shit to work with, and did get us into the playoffs his first season after DV, with a worse record than the previous season when we didn't make it. Herm's not a good coach by any means.....huge total dumbass. But what he was trying to do was the right thing to do, it's just he did it too late, Carl wasn't on board, and more importantly Herm and his coaching staff weren't the right guys to do the job. But he was in the buddy program with Carl.....a "Yes" puppet.

[HemiEd]

Our O was great, not doubt. He did squat for the D. It was a glaring issue that he never resolved.

I saw Junior Siavii make a great play for the Cowboys yesterday.

[HemiEd]

Right, and with hindsight we can see that Vermeil hit on 3 draft picks overall, if you want to count Derrick Johnson and Larry Johnson as successes. And frankly, you can't even give Vermeil credit for LJ since he never wanted him to begin with.

You still have to give him Jared Allen and Dustin Colquitt.


HemiEd waiting for the Chiefs Planet BS about him drafting JA to be a long snapper, when we all know NOBODY would spend a 4th on a long snapper.