Is it conceivable for the Chiefs to dump Pioli & Haley and get Cowher for GM & HC?

[kcbubb]

I never wanted Pioli or Haley and I would love to see Cowher in KC. Is it possible?

[Priest31kc]

FAIL

[Rausch]

Possible?

Yes.

Likely?

No...

[ClevelandBronco]

http://onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/inconceivable.jpg

Hell, someone was going to post it.

[Thig Lyfe]

lol ok

[ArrowheadMagic]

Sure, if its conceivable to go back in time, and have your dad pull out and wipe you off on the curtains instead...


BTW, love your threads, keep them coming.

[salame]

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/cheezeguy/n725075089_288918_2774.jpg

[kcbubb]

Sure, if its conceivable to go back in time, and have your dad pull out and wipe you off on the curtains instead...


BTW, love your threads, keep them coming.

glad to amuse.

[Fish]

I see someone has completely lost his mind this evening....

[BossChief]

OH MY!

[RealSNR]

Happy Halloween! You came dressed as a dumbass!

[JuicesFlowing]

"Yeah Scott, we know that you helped build a 3-time Super Bowl winner in NE, but we're cutting you after one year because you inherited a talent-ridden shitfest. Sorry, goodbye." Um, no ...

[ChiefJustice]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/mustaches.gif

[BossChief]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm_r_DUaJu8

[btlook1]

I guess I don't understand. We all knew it was going to be a long year. If you didn't know it was going to be a 1,2 or 3 win year then you are a dumbass! Give Haley time he's had 1 draft and a few games....give him at least 1 or 2 more full years before you want him replaced! Patience young Chief fans!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It has nothing to do with the W's and L's. The problem stems from the myopic dipshittery of the regime, thinking that because players came from NE, Miami, Dallas, or Az that they are the only worthwhile NFL players. Compound that with the belief that the 3-4 is the only defense to run, and you have rampant cocksuckery and ineffectiveness which belies itself in the weekly performance.

[Thig Lyfe]

talent-ridden shitfest

DOES NOT COMPUTE

[BossChief]

I guess I don't understand. We all knew it was going to be a long year. If you didn't know it was going to be a 1,2 or 3 win year then you are a dumbass! Give Haley time he's had 1 draft and a few games....give him at least 1 or 2 more full years before you want him replaced! Patience young Chief fans!

Sounds like YOU understand just fine...

[Mr. Flopnuts]

http://caspianroach.ru/img/I_UNDERSTAND_COMPLETELY.jpg

[DaWolf]

Sure. However I'll only give Cowher two games to turn this thing around, otherwise I'm getting rid of him and going after someone better.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

FTR, I've seen nothing to indicate that Bill Cowher is a good evaluator of talent. He seemed to finally understand the importance of a QB at the ass end of his Pitt tenure, but he has proven jack and fuck on the pro personnel level.

[BossChief]

It has nothing to do with the W's and L's. The problem stems from the myopic dipshittery of the regime, thinking that because players came from NE, Miami, Dallas, or Az that they are the only worthwhile NFL players. Compound that with the belief that the 3-4 is the only defense to run, and you have rampant one who sucks the penisy and ineffectiveness which belies itself in the weekly performance.

I agree 100%

BUT

take into consideration that Pioli is working off information by HERMS SCOUTS.

The only players he knows and trusts the scouting on are the ones he had a "hands on" process with. I understand Dimitroff handled this mostly, but man Pioli is basicallly alone right now as far as talent goes. Not saying Im giving him a pass because the players he did bring in were of the fail to the tenth power, just sayin...

During the time when getting the lackadaisical, lazy loser mentality out of the teams brain, it isnt a complete fail to bring in players that are used to being around winning.

I have given them a leash in this situation that may be a little longer than I gave in past ones because of the total fail they were willing to take over and hopefully transform into a winning franchise and their records in doing so are there for all to see.

If we are still a team getting blown out by middle of the pack teams like the Chargers during the first quarter of next year, I will open the floodgates...but I didnt really expect too much progress up to this point because of what they were given.

That fair?

[BossChief]

FTR, I've seen nothing to indicate that Bill Cowher is a good evaluator of talent. He seemed to finally understand the importance of a QB at the ass end of his Pitt tenure, but he has proven jack and **** on the pro personnel level.

He also struggled mightily when Dick Lebeu wasn't there.

It was like a light switch turning on, when he returned so did the defenses greatness.

[salame]

It has nothing to do with the W's and L's. The problem stems from the myopic dipshittery of the regime, thinking that because players came from NE, Miami, Dallas, or Az that they are the only worthwhile NFL players. Compound that with the belief that the 3-4 is the only defense to run, and you have rampant one who sucks the penisy and ineffectiveness which belies itself in the weekly performance.

yes yes yes yes yes

[The Bronco Rob]

Cowher would never go 3-30.




just sayin'

[ChiefsCountry]

I agree 100%

BUT

take into consideration that Pioli is working off information by HERMS SCOUTS.

The only players he knows and trusts the scouting on are the ones he had a "hands on" process with. I understand Dimitroff handled this mostly, but man Pioli is basicallly alone right now as far as talent goes. Not saying Im giving him a pass because the players he did bring in were of the fail to the tenth power, just sayin...

During the time when getting the lackadaisical, lazy loser mentality out of the teams brain, it isnt a complete fail to bring in players that are used to being around winning.

I have given them a leash in this situation that may be a little longer than I gave in past ones because of the total fail they were willing to take over and hopefully transform into a winning franchise and their records in doing so are there for all to see.

If we are still a team getting blown out by middle of the pack teams like the Chargers during the first quarter of next year, I will open the floodgates...but I didnt really expect too much progress up to this point because of what they were given.

That fair?

The Herm/Carl Scout thing is a just a bunch of bull shit. Scouts just collect information they really have no say any football decision.

[BigMeatballDave]

Cowher would not help at all. He's a pretty good coach, but his success was due to the Steelers front office. He would be epic fail here...

[Fritz88]

no

[RustShack]

Die in a fire.

[ILChief]

Cowher would never go 3-30.




just sayin'


Pioli/Haley haven't went 3-30.

[milkman]

Yours was the sperm that fertilized the egg.

Clearly anything is possible.

[milkman]

Pioli/Haley haven't went 3-30.

Details.

[BossChief]

The Herm/Carl Scout thing is a just a bunch of bull shit. Scouts just collect information they really have no say any football decision.

isnt that pretty much exactly what I said?

[Kerberos]

http://onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/inconceivable.jpg

Hell, someone was going to post it.



"I do not think that means what you think it means."

[milkman]

isnt that pretty much exactly what I said?

No.

You are trying to shift blame for the failures of Pioli/Haley in finding talent outside of the "tree" away from Pioli/haley.

CC is essentially telling you that is bull.

And he's right.

[Bwana]

Oh boy :shake:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o142/eodeeznuts/ThreadFail.jpg

[Bearcat]

Sure. However I'll only give Cowher two games to turn this thing around, otherwise I'm getting rid of him and going after someone better.

That's what I've been sayin'... the sooner we can get the next regime in here the sooner we can start picking them apart, finding every flaw in their system/personality/work history, and endlessly bitch about them.

The Pioli/Haley bitchfest is so week 3...

[TheGuardian]

That's what I've been sayin'... the sooner we can get the next regime in here the sooner we can start picking them apart, finding every flaw in there system/personality/work history, and endlessly bitch about them.

The Pioli/Haley bitchfest is so week 3...

Exactly.

Let's look at the trend here.....

Glenn Dorsey was a bust by week 10 of his rookie season

Tyson Jackson was a bust by the 4th game of his rookie season

Pioli after 1 offseason and 1 draft is already a failure as a GM

less than half a season into his rookie head coaching season Haley is a bust as a head coach

Albert, after a stellar rookie season already needs to be moved to another position because he's not a "natural left tackle"

If some people from CP were running the team we'd be changing coaches 4 times a year, cutting rookies and vets who had gone two games without "dominating".

We'd cut the GM if it became obvious that a certain point on the team was weak, even though there wasn't REALLY anyone available the previous offseason to upgrade it. Then they'd blame him for not finding gems all throughout the draft because you know, CP posters are pro scouts in REAL LIFE and can tell you who would have dominated as a rook.

Then we'd fire everyone, start all over again, and in 4 or 5 weeks it'd be a rinse and repeat.

[smittysbar]

Give him time for Christ sakes

[smittysbar]

Exactly.

Let's look at the trend here.....

Glenn Dorsey was a bust by week 10 of his rookie season

Tyson Jackson was a bust by the 4th game of his rookie season

Pioli after 1 offseason and 1 draft is already a failure as a GM

less than half a season into his rookie head coaching season Haley is a bust as a head coach

Albert, after a stellar rookie season already needs to be moved to another position because he's not a "natural left tackle"

If some people from CP were running the team we'd be changing coaches 4 times a year, cutting rookies and vets who had gone two games without "dominating".

We'd cut the GM if it became obvious that a certain point on the team was weak, even though there wasn't REALLY anyone available the previous offseason to upgrade it. Then they'd blame him for not finding gems all throughout the draft because you know, CP posters are pro scouts in REAL LIFE and can tell you who would have dominated as a rook.

Then we'd fire everyone, start all over again, and in 4 or 5 weeks it'd be a rinse and repeat.

I don't agree with you on most things, but you nailed this one.

[TheGuardian]

I don't agree with you on most things, but you nailed this one.

I don't know why, I'm right more times than not. ;)

[PRIEST]

The turd has not even cleared the toilet yet at least wait for it to flush.

[BossChief]

No.

You are trying to shift blame for the failures of Pioli/Haley in finding talent outside of the "tree" away from Pioli/haley.

CC is essentially telling you that is bull.

And he's right.

here is what I actually said though, maybe it was taken wrong...I will try to be more clear in future posts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
It has nothing to do with the W's and L's. The problem stems from the myopic dipshittery of the regime, thinking that because players came from NE, Miami, Dallas, or Az that they are the only worthwhile NFL players. Compound that with the belief that the 3-4 is the only defense to run, and you have rampant one who sucks the penisy and ineffectiveness which belies itself in the weekly performance.

BossChief:

I agree 100%

BUT

take into consideration that Pioli is working off information by HERMS SCOUTS.

The only players he knows and trusts the scouting on are the ones he had a "hands on" process with. I understand Dimitroff handled this mostly, but man Pioli is basicallly alone right now as far as talent goes. Not saying Im giving him a pass because the players he did bring in were of the fail to the tenth power, just sayin...

During the time when getting the lackadaisical, lazy loser mentality out of the teams brain, it isnt a complete fail to bring in players that are used to being around winning.

I have given them a leash in this situation that may be a little longer than I gave in past ones because of the total fail they were willing to take over and hopefully transform into a winning franchise and their records in doing so are there for all to see.

If we are still a team getting blown out by middle of the pack teams like the Chargers during the first quarter of next year, I will open the floodgates...but I didnt really expect too much progress up to this point because of what they were given.

That fair?



If that is that far off base, we will hjust have to agree to disagree.

That is what discussion boards are for I guess. Would be hella boring if everyone agreed with everything.

[Danman]

It has nothing to do with the W's and L's. The problem stems from the myopic dipshittery of the regime, thinking that because players came from NE, Miami, Dallas, or Az that they are the only worthwhile NFL players. Compound that with the belief that the 3-4 is the only defense to run, and you have rampant one who sucks the penisy and ineffectiveness which belies itself in the weekly performance.

Don't worry about it. It's the first year for both Pioli and Haley and they have a roster devoid of talent, It's only natural to get players you're familiar with. This will become less as they acquire more talent. Besides, waiver wire pickups are at best back ups and special teams players, You're not gonna find a superbowl mvp here.

[milkman]

Exactly.

Let's look at the trend here.....

Glenn Dorsey was a bust by week 10 of his rookie season

Tyson Jackson was a bust by the 4th game of his rookie season

Pioli after 1 offseason and 1 draft is already a failure as a GM

less than half a season into his rookie head coaching season Haley is a bust as a head coach

Albert, after a stellar rookie season already needs to be moved to another position because he's not a "natural left tackle"

If some people from CP were running the team we'd be changing coaches 4 times a year, cutting rookies and vets who had gone two games without "dominating".

We'd cut the GM if it became obvious that a certain point on the team was weak, even though there wasn't REALLY anyone available the previous offseason to upgrade it. Then they'd blame him for not finding gems all throughout the draft because you know, CP posters are pro scouts in REAL LIFE and can tell you who would have dominated as a rook.

Then we'd fire everyone, start all over again, and in 4 or 5 weeks it'd be a rinse and repeat.

There's a lot of merit to what you're saying here.

However, the thing that pisses me off, and that can not be defended, IMO, is the total lack of of trying to upgrade this roster with any players outside of players that have a former association with the braintrust.

I get that every new regime likes to bring in guys they are familiar with, but have never seen any that have gone almost exclusively with those players.

I'm not exactly sure of the number anymore, with the additions made in the last couple of weeks, but it has to be something like 19 of 20 players added to this roster with previous NFL experience that have been associated with Parcells, Pioli or Haley.

That is ludicrous.

[Chiefless]

I agree 100%

BUT

take into consideration that Pioli is working off information by HERMS SCOUTS.

The only players he knows and trusts the scouting on are the ones he had a "hands on" process with. I understand Dimitroff handled this mostly, but man Pioli is basicallly alone right now as far as talent goes. Not saying Im giving him a pass because the players he did bring in were of the fail to the tenth power, just sayin...

During the time when getting the lackadaisical, lazy loser mentality out of the teams brain, it isnt a complete fail to bring in players that are used to being around winning.

I have given them a leash in this situation that may be a little longer than I gave in past ones because of the total fail they were willing to take over and hopefully transform into a winning franchise and their records in doing so are there for all to see.

If we are still a team getting blown out by middle of the pack teams like the Chargers during the first quarter of next year, I will open the floodgates...but I didnt really expect too much progress up to this point because of what they were given.

That fair?

agree. good post.

[Danman]

That's what I've been sayin'... the sooner we can get the next regime in here the sooner we can start picking them apart, finding every flaw in their system/personality/work history, and endlessly bitch about them.

The Pioli/Haley bitchfest is so week 3...

Why do you want a new regime again? Do you want to win only 3 games every year? Every new regime wants "our kind of players" or "the right 53" whatever you wanna call it. When they first come in they're gonna weed out the that don't fit their system. It happens all the time. If you change again, the new regime will start again at square 1 to get "our kind of players".

[TheGuardian]

There's a lot of merit to what you're saying here.

However, the thing that pisses me off, and that can not be defended, IMO, is the total lack of of trying to upgrade this roster with any players outside of players that have a former association with the braintrust.

I get that every new regime likes to bring in guys they are familiar with, but have never seen any that have gone almost exclusively with those players.

I'm not exactly sure of the number anymore, with the additions made in the last couple of weeks, but it has to be something like 19 of 20 players added to this roster with previous NFL experience that have been associated with Parcells, Pioli or Haley.

That is ludicrous.

I hear you MM, but my take is this.

We'll see another big roster purge this offseason and a real run at players in FA and some more trading before the draft to load up on picks. I think for right now Pioli is simply keeping bodies on the roster that he is familiar with for comfort reasons only. I don't think in any way shape or form they will continue this after this season.

This team is probably shorter on talent than any team in the league. I think this season is nothing more than a throw away while Haley learns some HC ropes and Pioli does more scouting (I remember hearing a while back he himself was already out visiting and scouting college players). It's very possible that this team won't even be very competitive next season as well. When you've had 20+ years of crappy GM duties and bad drafting it's not an easy fix. I think personally, the Vermiel years were FAR worse from a drafting standpoint than the Herm years and IMO Vermiel set this franchise back more than anyone from a drafting standpoint. Or at least, he and Carl did during the years Vermiel was the HC.

[milkman]

here is what I actually said though, maybe it was taken wrong...I will try to be more clear in future posts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
It has nothing to do with the W's and L's. The problem stems from the myopic dipshittery of the regime, thinking that because players came from NE, Miami, Dallas, or Az that they are the only worthwhile NFL players. Compound that with the belief that the 3-4 is the only defense to run, and you have rampant one who sucks the penisy and ineffectiveness which belies itself in the weekly performance.

BossChief:

I agree 100%

BUT

take into consideration that Pioli is working off information by HERMS SCOUTS.

The only players he knows and trusts the scouting on are the ones he had a "hands on" process with. I understand Dimitroff handled this mostly, but man Pioli is basicallly alone right now as far as talent goes. Not saying Im giving him a pass because the players he did bring in were of the fail to the tenth power, just sayin...

During the time when getting the lackadaisical, lazy loser mentality out of the teams brain, it isnt a complete fail to bring in players that are used to being around winning.

I have given them a leash in this situation that may be a little longer than I gave in past ones because of the total fail they were willing to take over and hopefully transform into a winning franchise and their records in doing so are there for all to see.

If we are still a team getting blown out by middle of the pack teams like the Chargers during the first quarter of next year, I will open the floodgates...but I didnt really expect too much progress up to this point because of what they were given.

That fair?



If that is that far off base, we will hjust have to agree to disagree.

That is what discussion boards are for I guess. Would be hella boring if everyone agreed with everything.

What you said is essentially that Pioli/Haley are being given a pass in talent evaluation because they didn't have their guys in place.

That's bull.

Scouts gather info.

Even with the old staff, it is Pioli's responsibility to communicate to those guys what they are looking for and sift through the info provided.

Even with the old staff, he should have been able to make sound decisions.

And he did have his staff in place through the preseason whne they were looking at players on the bubble, and he still only brought in the "tree" players.

That's inexcusable.

[milkman]

I hear you MM, but my take is this.

We'll see another big roster purge this offseason and a real run at players in FA and some more trading before the draft to load up on picks. I think for right now Pioli is simply keeping bodies on the roster that he is familiar with for comfort reasons only. I don't think in any way shape or form they will continue this after this season.

This team is probably shorter on talent than any team in the league. I think this season is nothing more than a throw away while Haley learns some HC ropes and Pioli does more scouting (I remember hearing a while back he himself was already out visiting and scouting college players). It's very possible that this team won't even be very competitive next season as well. When you've had 20+ years of crappy GM duties and bad drafting it's not an easy fix. I think personally, the Vermiel years were FAR worse from a drafting standpoint than the Herm years and IMO Vermiel set this franchise back more than anyone from a drafting standpoint. Or at least, he and Carl did during the years Vermiel was the HC.

We agree on Dick and Carl.

[King_Chief_Fan]

I never wanted Pioli or Haley and I would love to see Cowher in KC. Is it possible?ROFLROFLROFL :doh!:

[BossChief]

I hear you MM, but my take is this.

We'll see another big roster purge this offseason and a real run at players in FA and some more trading before the draft to load up on picks. I think for right now Pioli is simply keeping bodies on the roster that he is familiar with for comfort reasons only. I don't think in any way shape or form they will continue this after this season.

This team is probably shorter on talent than any team in the league. I think this season is nothing more than a throw away while Haley learns some HC ropes and Pioli does more scouting (I remember hearing a while back he himself was already out visiting and scouting college players). It's very possible that this team won't even be very competitive next season as well. When you've had 20+ years of crappy GM duties and bad drafting it's not an easy fix. I think personally, the Vermiel years were FAR worse from a drafting standpoint than the Herm years and IMO Vermiel set this franchise back more than anyone from a drafting standpoint. Or at least, he and Carl did during the years Vermiel was the HC.

I agree with most of this and would add that the Hunts should shoulder some blame as well, we are 35 million or so under the cap and one of the only teams (if not the only one) to ever go under the salary floor.

that is the biggest reason we are in the basement afterall.

no talent
lots of unspent money
the guy with the wallet should shoulder some of the blame.

[Gonzo]

Goddammit....

We need a refined screening process for threads. Something like when you hit the submit button, the thread is emailed to a group of people on the site that have to vote on whether or not the thread is acceptable.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bearcat]

Why do you want a new regime again? Do you want to win only 3 games every year? Every new regime wants "our kind of players" or "the right 53" whatever you wanna call it. When they first come in they're gonna weed out the that don't fit their system. It happens all the time. If you change again, the new regime will start again at square 1 to get "our kind of players".

It was sarcasm.

Actually, for at least a year I've been mentioning (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5038240&postcount=22) that we're setting ourselves up to become an incredibly impatient franchise that has no long term vision... had Carl not left, I think it would have continued, but Pioli and Haley obviously want to do things their way and have both said from day one that they're in it for the long term... and the fans who are seriously wanting change at this point can rinse the sand out of their vaginas and become Steelers fans for all I (and Pioli and Haley) care. Like Marv Levy said, the minute you start listening to fans is the minute you'll be sitting with them.

[BossChief]

What you said is essentially that Pioli/Haley are being given a pass in talent evaluation because they didn't have their guys in place.

That's bull.

Scouts gather info.

Even with the old staff, it is Pioli's responsibility to communicate to those guys what they are looking for and sift through the info provided.

Even with the old staff, he should have been able to make sound decisions.

And he did have his staff in place through the preseason whne they were looking at players on the bubble, and he still only brought in the "tree" players.

That's inexcusable.
Bobby wade is'nt a "tree" player to my knowledge, is he? He was a good fringe pickup, not great but obviously better than what we had.

take into account that the previous scouts that were feeding information to him were scouting 4-3 players all year and also had a short time to prepare for a draft in which we would be targeting 3-4 players.

[TheGuardian]

I agree with most of this and would add that the Hunts should shoulder some blame as well, we are 35 million or so under the cap and one of the only teams (if not the only one) to ever go under the salary floor.

that is the biggest reason we are in the basement afterall.

no talent
lots of unspent money
the guy with the wallet should shoulder some of the blame.

Spending has never had a correlation with winning. Every year the Raiders are like 50 million over the cap and every year they suck donkey balls. There is a happy medium here.

[The Bad Guy]

You are seriously the dumbest mother fucker ever.

You think Clark is going to shell out the remaining money for Pioli and Haley and THEN pay Cowher?

This when the guy didn't shell out any money for free agents?

Are you really this dumb?

[BossChief]

What you said is essentially that Pioli/Haley are being given a pass in talent evaluation because they didn't have their guys in place.

That's bull.

Scouts gather info.

Even with the old staff, it is Pioli's responsibility to communicate to those guys what they are looking for and sift through the info provided.

Even with the old staff, he should have been able to make sound decisions.

And he did have his staff in place through the preseason whne they were looking at players on the bubble, and he still only brought in the "tree" players.

That's inexcusable.

really???

"Not saying Im giving him a pass because the players he did bring in were of the fail to the tenth power, just sayin..."

[Nzoner]

http://www.hollow-hill.com/sabina/images/corner-dumbass.jpg

[BossChief]

Spending has never had a correlation with winning. Every year the Raiders are like 50 million over the cap and every year they suck donkey balls. There is a happy medium here.

tell me this line wouldnt protect Cassel much better with:

Albert

Waters

Jason Brown (went to Stlouis in free agency, so obviously he would have came here if it was an option)

Rudy/other fa Im unaware of (or better yet, a olinemen in the third round)

Runyan...reports are that he can pass a physical but wants too much $...look we have too much money, perfect fit! hold on what? Were gonna play a bunch of backup/ scrap heap style players to protect our 63,000,000 man and open holes for our 45,000,000 rb? If Runyan isnt your man, their were a few options we didnt choose to pursue for some reason including Taucher,Levi Jones and others.

I agree that $ doesnt win championships, but it sure does but olinemen!

[milkman]

Bobby wade is'nt a "tree" player to my knowledge, is he? He was a good fringe pickup, not great but obviously better than what we had.

take into account that the previous scouts that were feeding information to him were scouting 4-3 players all year and also had a short time to prepare for a draft in which we would be targeting 3-4 players.

Bobby Wade was a member of the Bears when Haley was a member of the staff in Chicago.

[Pioli Zombie]

Stupid moron thread. Yeah, after 6 games Hunt is going to dump Pioli and Haley.

I ask again, who out there at the start of the season looking at the schedule predicted anything better than a 1-6 start?

Stupid fans.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Skip Towne]

Stupid moron thread. Yeah, after 6 games Hunt is going to dump Pioli and Haley.

I ask again, who out there at the start of the season looking at the schedule predicted anything better than a 1-6 start?

Stupid fans.
Posted via Mobile Device

Neg rep

[BossChief]

Bobby Wade was a member of the Bears when Haley was a member of the staff in Chicago.

damnit! I stand corrected, nicely played sir.

I thought I got one.

Are you telling me the only guy he brought in that wasnt connected was Goff, our worst olinemen (even though its a three way tie)?

My comment of the suck to the tenth power, just went to the 11th power.

that sucks...

[Pioli Zombie]

Neg rep

Good. From you its a compliment.
Posted via Mobile Device

[milkman]

damnit! I stand corrected, nicely played sir.

I thought I got one.

Are you telling me the only guy he brought in that wasnt connected was Goff, our worst olinemen (even though its a three way tie)?

My comment of the suck to the tenth power, just went to the 11th power.

that sucks...

I believe that to be true, yes.

[BossChief]

Neg rep

I would, but that is what he wants.

Its like a guy that is a total worthless fuck that wants you to kill him so it finally ends, but you decide that letting him live would be the worst thing you could do to him.

If he ever gets a speck of green again, I will assist with the carpet bombing.

poor, worthless fuck!

[Pioli Zombie]

I would, but that is what he wants.

Its like a guy that is a total worthless fuck that wants you to kill him so it finally ends, but you decide that letting him live would be the worst thing you could do to him.

If he ever gets a speck of green again, I will assist with the carpet bombing.

poor, worthless fuck!
Peace be with you.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Fish]

I hear you MM, but my take is this.

We'll see another big roster purge this offseason and a real run at players in FA and some more trading before the draft to load up on picks. I think for right now Pioli is simply keeping bodies on the roster that he is familiar with for comfort reasons only. I don't think in any way shape or form they will continue this after this season.

This team is probably shorter on talent than any team in the league. I think this season is nothing more than a throw away while Haley learns some HC ropes and Pioli does more scouting (I remember hearing a while back he himself was already out visiting and scouting college players). It's very possible that this team won't even be very competitive next season as well. When you've had 20+ years of crappy GM duties and bad drafting it's not an easy fix. I think personally, the Vermiel years were FAR worse from a drafting standpoint than the Herm years and IMO Vermiel set this franchise back more than anyone from a drafting standpoint. Or at least, he and Carl did during the years Vermiel was the HC.

Good grief. A big roster purge? As has been pointed out, they turned 60% of the roster over THIS season. If they have to do it again, that says a lot about their talent evaluation. You think our GM is making moves not for the better of the franchise, but to stay in his comfort zone? And you're OK with that? Seriously? I guess we should just expect another 5 years or more before we find the "Right 53".

And I'm so glad we got to have an entire throw away season to help out our head coach. It's nice that the Chiefs have refunded money and reduced ticket prices because it's an official "Throw away season". They reduced player and coach salaries too right? Since the season doesn't count?

I'm amazed at what Chiefs fans will justify for this franchise.... Carl Peterson created an entire fan base of martyrs.

[LaChapelle]

How half you people would handle an actual emergency is heart warming for the human race as a whole.

[1ChiefsDan]

Exactly.

Let's look at the trend here.....

Glenn Dorsey was a bust by week 10 of his rookie season

Tyson Jackson was a bust by the 4th game of his rookie season

Pioli after 1 offseason and 1 draft is already a failure as a GM

less than half a season into his rookie head coaching season Haley is a bust as a head coach

Albert, after a stellar rookie season already needs to be moved to another position because he's not a "natural left tackle"

If some people from CP were running the team we'd be changing coaches 4 times a year, cutting rookies and vets who had gone two games without "dominating".

We'd cut the GM if it became obvious that a certain point on the team was weak, even though there wasn't REALLY anyone available the previous offseason to upgrade it. Then they'd blame him for not finding gems all throughout the draft because you know, CP posters are pro scouts in REAL LIFE and can tell you who would have dominated as a rook.

Then we'd fire everyone, start all over again, and in 4 or 5 weeks it'd be a rinse and repeat.So how many mults does Al Davis have here?

[SAUTO]

Cowher would never go 3-30.




just sayin'

neither has pioli




just sayin'

[Bwana]

I would, but that is what he wants.

Its like a guy that is a total worthless **** that wants you to kill him so it finally ends, but you decide that letting him live would be the worst thing you could do to him.

If he ever gets a speck of green again, I will assist with the carpet bombing.

poor, worthless ****!

LMAO

[mikeyis4dcats.]

your and idiot

[FloridaMan88]

If the Chiefs finish 1-15 and aren't even competitive in the final half of the season, I could see Todd Haley getting fired. However, Pioli is not going anywhere after one season.

[TheGuardian]

Good grief. A big roster purge? As has been pointed out, they turned 60% of the roster over THIS season. If they have to do it again, that says a lot about their talent evaluation. You think our GM is making moves not for the better of the franchise, but to stay in his comfort zone? And you're OK with that? Seriously? I guess we should just expect another 5 years or more before we find the "Right 53".

And I'm so glad we got to have an entire throw away season to help out our head coach. It's nice that the Chiefs have refunded money and reduced ticket prices because it's an official "Throw away season". They reduced player and coach salaries too right? Since the season doesn't count?

I'm amazed at what Chiefs fans will justify for this franchise.... Carl Peterson created an entire fan base of martyrs.

Hardly. You were expecting the Chiefs to go what this year? 9-7? 8-8? Pipe dreams. It's called living in reality rather than expecting pipe dreams.

Second yes, it does say a lot about the talent evaluation that had been going on here. This roster will be turned over until both Pioli and Haley feel like they have the right guys in place. If people want to continue to make fun of the "right 53" phrase go ahead, but it's the same mantra that Parcells and Belichick chant as well. And right now I don't think we have more than a handful of the "right 53" in place. So it's very possible that next season that the Chiefs could struggle again. If the offensive line gets fixed this next offseason we could take a big jump in competitiveness. But we also need linebackers, a safety or possibly two, a true nose tackle, a better blocking fullback, and possibly two more running backs.

this team is a long way from competing and anyone who expected a record even nearing .500 this year spent too much time with their head in a paint can.

[Chiefless]

Hardly. You were expecting the Chiefs to go what this year? 9-7? 8-8? Pipe dreams. It's called living in reality rather than expecting pipe dreams.

Second yes, it does say a lot about the talent evaluation that had been going on here. This roster will be turned over until both Pioli and Haley feel like they have the right guys in place. If people want to continue to make fun of the "right 53" phrase go ahead, but it's the same mantra that Parcells and Belichick chant as well. And right now I don't think we have more than a handful of the "right 53" in place. So it's very possible that next season that the Chiefs could struggle again. If the offensive line gets fixed this next offseason we could take a big jump in competitiveness. But we also need linebackers, a safety or possibly two, a true nose tackle, a better blocking fullback, and possibly two more running backs.

this team is a long way from competing and anyone who expected a record even nearing .500 this year spent too much time with their head in a paint can.

I'll take this a step further. I think they only need the "right handful" of players for the rest of the 53 to fall in line. They really don't have that yet. They need positive examples in every unit to validate the notion that buying into the new chiefs vision makes them a better team. And they need to instill that to the point where the PLAYERS are policing it. Then Haley can get on with the task of exploiting oposing teams.

[DaneMcCloud]

I agree 100%

BUT

take into consideration that Pioli is working off information by HERMS SCOUTS.

This 100%, unadulterated fucking HORSESHIT.

The excuses Pioli and his shitty draft and talent evaluation just won't stop.

First off, are you declaring that Pioli didn't scout while in New England? That from August 2008 to the last bowl games in January 2009, he knew NOTHING about the available talent?

Secondly, are you declaring that Pioli didn't have 16 FUCKING HOURS in order to watch all 16 Chiefs games last year?

What the FUCK?

It's bullshit. He had PLENTY of time to evaluate and he was scouting players while in New England.

This is just another horseshit excuse made for a man who's job was complete FAIL in 2009.

[DaneMcCloud]

agree. good post.

JFC.

I hope you've been neutered.

[BossChief]

This 100%, unadulterated ****ing HORSESHIT.

The excuses Pioli and his shitty draft and talent evaluation just won't stop.

First off, are you declaring that Pioli didn't scout while in New England? That from August 2008 to the last bowl games in January 2009, he knew NOTHING about the available talent?

Secondly, are you declaring that Pioli didn't have 16 ****ING HOURS in order to watch all 16 Chiefs games last year?

What the ****?

It's bullshit. He had PLENTY of time to evaluate and he was scouting players while in New England.

This is just another horseshit excuse made for a man who's job was complete FAIL in 2009.

Lets give them more than 6 games before we call the draft a complete fail

Like I said Seymour was at 16 in the highest mock I could find from 2001...nobody knows how these guys are gonna turn out and some dont even want to give them a chance to.

being mad about it isnt gonna change it.

[Rausch]

This 100%, unadulterated ****ing HORSESHIT.

The excuses Pioli and his shitty draft and talent evaluation just won't stop.

First off, are you declaring that Pioli didn't scout while in New England? That from August 2008 to the last bowl games in January 2009, he knew NOTHING about the available talent?

Secondly, are you declaring that Pioli didn't have 16 ****ING HOURS in order to watch all 16 Chiefs games last year?

What the ****?

It's bullshit. He had PLENTY of time to evaluate and he was scouting players while in New England.

This is just another horseshit excuse made for a man who's job was complete FAIL in 2009.

It's hard to know where to place most of the blame.

We knew Carl's MO. Carl gave most of his draft day say to the HC.

Did he override the HC? Yes, but that was rare. He let his HC's decide how/whom to draft for the most part.

Marty, Gun, DV, and Herm were allowed to build the teams THEY wanted to build, THIER way.

Pioli hasn't been here long enough, and he's too secretive, to know exactly how that HC/GM dynamic works here yet. Were our OC/DC/Draft decisions Pioli moves or Haley moves?...

[DaneMcCloud]

Lets give them more than 6 games before we call the draft a complete fail

Like I said Seymour was at 16 in the highest mock I could find from 2001...nobody knows how these guys are gonna turn out and some dont even want to give them a chance to.

being mad about it isnt gonna change it.

JFC.

Outside of the FUCKING KICKER, the Chiefs needs weren't addressed. There was NO NEED to draft TWO MORE 5-tech defensive lineman. There was NO REASON to draft Donald Washington. Brown is on IR and was moved from tackle to guard in TC. Lawrence and Williams are on IR and O'Connell just flat out sucks ass.

In a draft year loaded with offensive talent, Pioli mined absolutely NONE of it. Instead, he drafted a few non-impact players with his first two picks and wasted his 4th and 5th rounders.

In addition to that, free-agency was a fucking joke. Goof? Zach Thomas? Bobby Engram? Ha!

FAIL.

[DaneMcCloud]

It's hard to know where to place most of the blame.

We knew Carl's MO. Carl gave most of his draft day say to the HC.

Did he override the HC? Yes, but that was rare. He let his HC's decide how/whom to draft for the most part.

Marty, Gun, DV, and Herm were allowed to build the teams THEY wanted to build, THIER way.

Pioli hasn't been here long enough, and he's too secretive, to know exactly how that HC/GM dynamic works here yet. Were our OC/DC/Draft decisions Pioli moves or Haley moves?...

IF Pioli turned the draft decisions over to Haley, a first time head coach, Pioli's a little dumber than I imagined.

That being said, I'd be surprised if that happened. Not shocked but surprised.

[BossChief]

JFC.

Outside of the ****ING KICKER, the Chiefs needs weren't addressed. There was NO NEED to draft TWO MORE 5-tech defensive lineman. There was NO REASON to draft Donald Washington. Brown is on IR and was moved from tackle to guard in TC. Lawrence and Williams are on IR and O'Connell just flat out sucks ass.

In a draft year loaded with offensive talent, Pioli mined absolutely NONE of it. Instead, he drafted a few non-impact players with his first two picks and wasted his 4th and 5th rounders.

In addition to that, free-agency was a ****ing joke. Goof? Zach Thomas? Bobby Engram? Ha!

FAIL.

I havent said a peep about any pick after Tyson because it hurts to think how bad they all were anymore.

We would have had a better draft if we just combined picks to move up and take a couple starting caliber olinemen and nothing else after Tyson except succop

100% agree there

but since draft day, every 3-4 defenses HC has said they had Tyson pegged except GB and I bet they did too. just sayin

honest question cause Im curious: who was your preference?

[Rausch]

IF Pioli turned the draft decisions over to Haley, a first time head coach, Pioli's a little dumber than I imagined.

That being said, I'd be surprised if that happened. Not shocked but surprised.

This season is like an elevator fart. You don't know who's responsible but it doesn't really matter 'cause you're stuck for the ride...

[DaneMcCloud]

I havent said a peep about any pick after Tyson because it hurts to think how bad they all were anymore.

We would have had a better draft if we just combined picks to move up and take a couple starting caliber olinemen and nothing else after Tyson except succop

100% agree there

but since draft day, every 3-4 defenses HC has said they had Tyson pegged except GB and I bet they did too. just sayin

honest question cause Im curious: who was your preference?

Sanchez. After Pioli traded for Cassel, that wasn't going to happen.

I've said this time and time again: The Chiefs are in dire need of playmakers. How does Knowshon Moreno, Michael Crabtree, Percy Harvin, Jeremy Maclin or even Michael Oher sound right now? They could have signed a 3-4 end in free agency like Ohlshansky or Canty and their defense would be exactly as it is now.

But the offense would have a much needed playmaker.

[DaneMcCloud]

This season is like an elevator fart. You don't know who's responsible but it doesn't really matter 'cause you're stuck for the ride...

Personally, I hope the Hunt family is gearing up to sell the Chiefs.

The new owner would have a great stadium with $400 million in upgrades and a long lease.

The new owner would have a team that's $30 million under the salary cap.

The new owner would have the Executive of the Millennium and a young head coach.

I know that's probably not going to happen but I can dream...

[Deberg_1990]

Sanchez. After Pioli traded for Cassel, that wasn't going to happen.

I've said this time and time again: The Chiefs are in dire need of playmakers. How does Knowshon Moreno, Michael Crabtree, Percy Harvin, Jeremy Maclin or even Michael Oher sound right now? They could have signed a 3-4 end in free agency like Ohlshansky or Canty and their defense would be exactly as it is now.

But the offense would have a much needed playmaker.

Why do you think he selected Ty Jack? This draft is pretty much how everyone thought it was gonna be. The top 10 players were pretty weak compared to other years.

Do you think he reached with Jackson? Or is he thinking long term benefits?

[Rausch]

Sanchez. After Pioli traded for Cassel, that wasn't going to happen.

I've said this time and time again: The Chiefs are in dire need of playmakers. How does Knowshon Moreno, Michael Crabtree, Percy Harvin, Jeremy Maclin or even Michael Oher sound right now? They could have signed a 3-4 end in free agency like Ohlshansky or Canty and their defense would be exactly as it is now.

But the offense would have a much needed playmaker.

I'm fine with going defense but you don't spend a top 10 pick and top 10 money on a 3-4 DE.

Just stupid...

[DaneMcCloud]

Why do you think he selected Ty Jack? This draft is pretty much how everyone thought it was gonna be. The top 10 players were pretty weak compared to other years.

Do you think he reached with Jackson? Or is he thinking long term benefits?

Tyson Jackson was in NO ONE'S Top Ten. And I disagree - I don't think it was weak at all. Sanchez is playing well, Stafford's played well when healthy, Curry's not Jesus but he's been good, Crabtree has had an immediate impact and so on.

IMO, there is NO long term benefit to drafting a 5-tech DE with the number three overall pick, especially when your team lacks a game-changing playmaker on both sides of the ball. There wasn't a game-changer available on defense but they were certainly available on offense.

And as much as I was "against" an offensive lineman at #3, Michael Oher's presence on this line would make the offense a completely different animal.

Pioli, IMO, blew the whole draft. So, big fucking deal. He got a kicker with the last pick of the entire draft. Yay!

:shake:

[salame]

Tyson Jackson was in NO ONE'S Top Ten. And I disagree - I don't think it was weak at all. Sanchez is playing well, Stafford's played well when healthy, Curry's not Jesus but he's been good, Crabtree has had an immediate impact and so on.

IMO, there is NO long term benefit to drafting a 5-tech DE with the number three overall pick, especially when your team lacks a game-changing playmaker on both sides of the ball. There wasn't a game-changer available on defense but they were certainly available on offense.

And as much as I was "against" an offensive lineman at #3, Michael Oher's presence on this line would make the offense a completely different animal.

Pioli, IMO, blew the whole draft. So, big ****ing deal. He got a kicker with the last pick of the entire draft. Yay!

:shake:

qft

[Rausch]

Why do you think he selected Ty Jack? This draft is pretty much how everyone thought it was gonna be. The top 10 players were pretty weak compared to other years.

Do you think he reached with Jackson? Or is he thinking long term benefits?

So you trade down.

And I really don't care what the value chart says. You're off by 18 pts but you save 18 million over the next 4 years and still get your guy you trade down.

Perhaps you get a high 3rd instead of a mid 2nd, fine. Take the extra pick, get your guy, pay less with a rebuilding team.

In today's NFL I wouldn't ever draft in the top 5...

[DaneMcCloud]

So you trade down.

And I really don't care what the value chart says. You're off by 18 pts but you save 18 million over the next 4 years and still get your guy you trade down.

Perhaps you get a high 3rd instead of a mid 2nd, fine. Take the extra pick, get your guy, pay less with a rebuilding team.

In today's NFL I wouldn't ever draft in the top 5...

I'd certainly take a QB with a top 5 pick. Outside of Brady and Johnson, only first rounders have won the Super Bowl this decade. And last decade, you had Aikman, Young & Elway, all first rounders combine for 6 Super Bowl wins and Favre, who was traded for a 1st round pick and originally taken with a high second, win another. But I digress...

Pioli shocked me in the 2009 draft by NOT trading back as many times as possible to stockpile talent, especially offensive line talent.

That was my first clue that he didn't have a clue...

[BossChief]

Sanchez. After Pioli traded for Cassel, that wasn't going to happen.

I've said this time and time again: The Chiefs are in dire need of playmakers. How does Knowshon Moreno, Michael Crabtree, Percy Harvin, Jeremy Maclin or even Michael Oher sound right now? They could have signed a 3-4 end in free agency like Ohlshansky or Canty and their defense would be exactly as it is now.

But the offense would have a much needed playmaker.

its easy to say "we could have just signed Olshansky or Canty" but in reality players like that only come to KC when they are overpaid, then you have the problem arising when our own players are negotiating for new deals with the premise that they can get more than market value because Xplayer did. That wont happen.

I could have seen a pickup like Vonnie Holliday...

I hate to use the old adage, but you have to build the foundation before you put the roof on the house. I agree we need playmakers on both side of the ball, but dlinemen take time to develop, more than most other positions, so if we are to have a foundation suitable for a playoff run in two years, now wasnt a horrible time to draft a guy like Tyson...the added value to us for the pick is the effect he has obviously had on Dorsey...the kid has lit up with Tyson there.

[BossChief]

I'd certainly take a QB with a top 5 pick. Outside of Brady and Johnson, only first rounders have won the Super Bowl this decade. And last decade, you had Aikman, Young & Elway, all first rounders combine for 6 Super Bowl wins and Favre, who was traded for a 1st round pick and originally taken with a high second, win another. But I digress...

Pioli shocked me in the 2009 draft by NOT trading back as many times as possible to stockpile talent, especially offensive line talent.

That was my first clue that he didn't have a clue...
this is assuming we had a trade partner....

[salame]

its easy to say "we could have just signed Olshansky or Canty" but in reality players like that only come to KC when they are overpaid, then you have the problem arising when our own players are negotiating for new deals with the premise that they can get more than market value because Xplayer did. That wont happen.

I could have seen a pickup like Vonnie Holliday...

I hate to use the old adage, but you have to build the foundation before you put the roof on the house. I agree we need playmakers on both side of the ball, but dlinemen take time to develop, more than most other positions, so if we are to have a foundation suitable for a playoff run in two years, now wasnt a horrible time to draft a guy like Tyson...the added value to us for the pick is the effect he has obviously had on Dorsey...the kid has lit up with Tyson there.

so dorsey is playing because because of tyson jackson?

[Rausch]

I'd certainly take a QB with a top 5 pick. Outside of Brady and Johnson, only first rounders have won the Super Bowl this decade. And last decade, you had Aikman, Young & Elway, all first rounders combine for 6 Super Bowl wins and Favre, who was traded for a 1st round pick and originally taken with a high second, win another. But I digress...

I agree that it's time KC takes a shot on QB. Right now I wish Herm would have bit on Ryan.

Herm would still be gone, our D line would still suck, but last draft we would have at least an extra 2nd in an O line heavy draft...

Pioli shocked me in the 2009 draft by NOT trading back as many times as possible to stockpile talent, especially offensive line talent.

That was my first clue that he didn't have a clue...

I still don't get trading to get your guy at QB and not doing everything you can to build him a line. If we would have gone with Brokie/Thigpen I could understand the half assed attitude...

[DaneMcCloud]

its easy to say "we could have just signed Olshansky or Canty" but in reality players like that only come to KC when they are overpaid, then you have the problem arising when our own players are negotiating for new deals with the premise that they can get more than market value because Xplayer did. That wont happen.

What?? You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Ohlshansky signed for a mere $4 million a year. The problem is that the CHIEFS didn't "entertain" the idea.

I hate to use the old adage, but you have to build the foundation before you put the roof on the house. I agree we need playmakers on both side of the ball, but dlinemen take time to develop, more than most other positions, so if we are to have a foundation suitable for a playoff run in two years, now wasnt a horrible time to draft a guy like Tyson...the added value to us for the pick is the effect he has obviously had on Dorsey...the kid has lit up with Tyson there.

Again, you don't what you're talking about. The Chiefs defense SUCKS ASS. They're worse than last year in nearly EVERY statistical category and it's not going to get any better.

And while Dorsey has shown flashes, Magee has sucked, Washington's worthless and Jackson hasn't been anything special at all.

Ignoring playmakers for a "foundation" will NOT win a championship.

JFC.

[BossChief]

Tyson Jackson was in NO ONE'S Top Ten.

your right, he was evidently in EVERYONES (the only team I havent seen say they wanted him was GB that runs a 3-4)

[DaneMcCloud]

I still don't get trading to get your guy at QB and not doing everything you can to build him a line. If we would have gone with Brokie/Thigpen I could understand the half assed attitude...

Yep, it makes absolutely NO sense.

None. Zero. Zip. Nada.

And this new O-line coach sucks ass. Everyone on the O-line has regressed this year.

[Rausch]

this is assuming we had a trade partner....

The last 3 years have been really light on talent in the top 10.

You just aren't going to get 2000-2005 value trading down. The talent isn't there...

[BossChief]

so dorsey is playing because because of tyson jackson?

I bet he has factored into the intensity Dorsey has played with so far this year.

Remember Dorsey last year?

I thought it was a joke when they said he would be played at 3-4 de, he has plyed very well and is a big reason Hali is able to make plays.

[DaneMcCloud]

your right, he was evidently in EVERYONES (the only team I havent seen say they wanted him was GB that runs a 3-4)

You're full of shit.

Tyson Jackson was a mid to late first round projection until as OTWP58 noted earlier, Rick Gosselin put him in the 10-12 range.

And who do YOU know in the Green Bay organization that told you they wanted Jackson over Raji?

[BossChief]

The last 3 years have been really light on talent in the top 10.

You just aren't going to get 2000-2005 value trading down. The talent isn't there...

nobody wants to pay that kinda coin for a rookie

[salame]

I bet he has factored into the intensity Dorsey has played with so far this year.

Remember Dorsey last year?

I thought it was a joke when they said he would be played at 3-4 de, he has plyed very well and is a big reason Hali is able to make plays.

So more of Tyson Jackson and less of Haley or the new scheme?

[DaneMcCloud]

I bet he has factored into the intensity Dorsey has played with so far this year.

Remember Dorsey last year?

I thought it was a joke when they said he would be played at 3-4 de, he has plyed very well and is a big reason Hali is able to make plays.

What????????

Dorsey played well last year, despite what some dipshits around here thought of his play.

JFC. Are you mildly retarted?

[Rausch]

Yep, it makes absolutely NO sense.

None. Zero. Zip. Nada.

And this new O-line coach sucks ass. Everyone on the O-line has regressed this year.

The whole offense looks worse.

The defense only plays 3 1/2 quarters on our GOOD weeks.

But we have the best K/P combo in TEH WHOLE LEAGUES!1!


http://www.litho-art.net/images/art/black%20and%20white/kill%20me%20now.jpg

[DaneMcCloud]

So more of Tyson Jackson and less of Haley or the new scheme?

None of the above.

Dorsey's a talented dude in his own right.

[BossChief]

You're full of shit.

Tyson Jackson was a mid to late first round projection until as OTWP58 noted earlier, Rick Gosselin put him in the 10-12 range.

And who do YOU know in the Green Bay organization that told you they wanted Jackson over Raji?

I said GB is the only team that I HAVENT heard as interested in taking him with their first.

Singletary said he had him pegged on may 6 on NFLN

I dont have a date for Cleveland, but they did shortly after MS did.

[Rausch]

So more of Tyson Jackson and less of Haley...

SOLD!

[BossChief]

What????????

Dorsey played well last year, despite what some dipshits around here thought of his play.

JFC. Are you mildly retarted?

STOP THE PRESSES!!! YOU THINK DORSEY PLAYED WELL LAST YEAR???

Im at a loss for words.

[BossChief]

Yep, it makes absolutely NO sense.

None. Zero. Zip. Nada.

And this new O-line coach sucks ass. Everyone on the O-line has regressed this year.

this

[BossChief]

What?? You don't know what the **** you're talking about. Ohlshansky signed for a mere $4 million a year. The problem is that the CHIEFS didn't "entertain" the idea.



Again, you don't what you're talking about. The Chiefs defense SUCKS ASS. They're worse than last year in nearly EVERY statistical category and it's not going to get any better.

And while Dorsey has shown flashes, Magee has sucked, Washington's worthless and Jackson hasn't been anything special at all.

Ignoring playmakers for a "foundation" will NOT win a championship.

JFC.

you dont know that, for all we know Pioli called his agent and his agent said he has a short list of teams he was interested in playing for. If he had any kind of parameters for which teams he would consider signing with, Im sure the 2-14 division rival he has played twice a year was the last on the list. Be realistic here.

The defense has been bad for a decade because we never could stop the run. Am I the only one here that remembers that? Young linemen take time to learn the game in teh trenches. Almost none are ever good as a rookie. Remember Mario Williams? People around here would have been calling him a dumb pick after six games too.

Im not going to defend a single pick after TJ because they all were abortions except Succop

[Rausch]

STOP THE PRESSES!!! YOU THINK DORSEY PLAYED WELL LAST YEAR???

Im at a loss for words.

DT's don't come out the gate and take over the world their rookie year like a DE can.

I believe Dorsey can become a great 3-4 DE but the problem is that you drafted him and paid him to be a Warren Sapp and then told him to go be Kimo Von Oelhoffen.

It's like signing Randy Moss for Randy Moss money and then asking him to play TE.

"Well, you're still catching passes, right?..."

Nein...

[DaneMcCloud]

STOP THE PRESSES!!! YOU THINK DORSEY PLAYED WELL LAST YEAR???

Im at a loss for words.

Well, apparently, you know nothing about defensive line play.

Dorsey was playing out of position and had 46 tackles, one sack and one pass defended on an awful defense that had ZERO outside pressure.

He was also coming off of a serious leg injury.

[BossChief]

DT's don't come out the gate and take over the world their rookie year like a DE can.

I believe Dorsey can become a great 3-4 DE but the problem is that you drafted him and paid him to be a Warren Sapp and then told him to go be Kimo Von Oelhoffen.

It's like signing Randy Moss for Randy Moss money and then asking him to play TE.

"Well, you're still catching passes, right?..."

Nein...
'thats my point

yup

yup

[BossChief]

Well, apparently, you know nothing about defensive line play.

Dorsey was playing out of position and had 46 tackles, one sack and one pass defended on an awful defense that had ZERO outside pressure.

He was also coming off of a serious leg injury.

I know he got pushed around regularly. If you didnt see that, you chose not to look...he played OK in the last two games, thats it. Dont trust defensive tackle stats, they are kept by the team and are very often falsified/exaggerated. NFLN has a show for top ten nfl myths and one of them (cant remember where it ranked) was the myth that tackle stats are accurate. They arent. If they were they would be figured into contracts.

If you cant tell already, I dont follow what other people think unless it makes more sense to me than what I know.

I drew my opinion of Dorsey off watching the games not looking at stats, He was completely owned in about half the games.

Dorsey was a rookie DT and played very much like one.

I understand very well he and every other defensive linemen we had was playing out of position as well. I had a thread on another board called flip flop where I pointed this out two weeks before Whitlock did.

[milkman]

'thats my point

yup

yup

Some people move the goal posts.

You move the whole fucking field.

[milkman]

I know he got pushed around regularly. If you didnt see that, you chose not to look...he played OK in the last two games, thats it. Dont trust defensive tackle stats, they are kept by the team and are very often falsified/exaggerated. NFLN has a show for top ten nfl myths and one of them (cant remember where it ranked) was the myth that tackle stats are accurate. They arent. If they were they would be figured into contracts.

If you cant tell already, I dont follow what other people think unless it makes more sense to me than what I know.

I drew my opinion of Dorsey off watching the games not looking at stats, He was completely owned in about half the games.

Dorsey was a rookie DT and played very much like one.

I understand very well he and every other defensive linemen we had was playing out of position as well. I had a thread on another board called flip flop where I pointed this out two weeks before Whitlock did.

And we were talking about Dorsey playing the wrong spot from the first game of the season, and before, in the preseason.

What's your ****ing point?

[DaFace]

I need to set up a new usergroup for posters who haven't broken any rules, but are clearly dumbasses. Then make it so that a big red D is used in place of their avatar. It'd be like our own little scarlet letter.

[TheGuardian]

DT's don't come out the gate and take over the world their rookie year like a DE can.

I believe Dorsey can become a great 3-4 DE but the problem is that you drafted him and paid him to be a Warren Sapp and then told him to go be Kimo Von Oelhoffen.

It's like signing Randy Moss for Randy Moss money and then asking him to play TE.

"Well, you're still catching passes, right?..."

Nein...

Except for the fact that the dorsey to sapp comparisons are/were completely baseless and stupid.

[BossChief]

Some people move the goal posts.

You move the whole ****ing field.

how so?

[milkman]

how so?

You claim to make points that you never make.

[BossChief]

You claim to make points that you never make.

I guess I dont follow

are you saying I leave loose ends?

The only reason I brought up my post about Dorsey is because he seemed to me that he was talking down to me like I was ignorant to the fact that Dorsey was playing out of position, I defended myself. Not to make it seem like I made the point before anyone, just over at the cc, I did.

If you get a chance to do so, please clarify

[Rausch]

Except for the fact that the dorsey to sapp comparisons are/were completely baseless and stupid.

Nah'.

Dorsey should have come out the gate healing the sick and forcing sacks with the his hateful gaze alone...

[TheGuardian]

Nah'.

Dorsey should have come out the gate healing the sick and forcing sacks with the his hateful gaze alone...

With a "gleam." There's a gleam men.............

[milkman]

I guess I dont follow

It's an overall general observation, but here specifically, you didn't make the point that you thought Dorsey didn't play well, and didn't make a case as to why, nor did you suggest that he would be improved in his second season.

[BossChief]

It's an overall general observation, but here specifically, you didn't make the point that you thought Dorsey didn't play well, and didn't make a case as to why, nor did you suggest that he would be improved in his second season.

I see. You are right, too.

I am used to the CC where everyone knows my stance on most topics, so I sometimes forget to state my whole case, assuming people can fill in the blanks with what I had been saying in previous conversations..

I will try to be more thorough so that people here know better of what to expect from me and my posts.

I gotta remember that I am a nOOb here...

I appreciate the explanation.

here is a little something for it!

[Rausch]

With a "gleam." There's a gleam men.............

Now there's just "the STARE!"

http://www.azcentral.com/i/sized/3/C/2/e298/j350/PHP4835EEA4582C3.jpg

[Fish]

Hardly. You were expecting the Chiefs to go what this year? 9-7? 8-8? Pipe dreams. It's called living in reality rather than expecting pipe dreams.

Second yes, it does say a lot about the talent evaluation that had been going on here. This roster will be turned over until both Pioli and Haley feel like they have the right guys in place. If people want to continue to make fun of the "right 53" phrase go ahead, but it's the same mantra that Parcells and Belichick chant as well. And right now I don't think we have more than a handful of the "right 53" in place. So it's very possible that next season that the Chiefs could struggle again. If the offensive line gets fixed this next offseason we could take a big jump in competitiveness. But we also need linebackers, a safety or possibly two, a true nose tackle, a better blocking fullback, and possibly two more running backs.

this team is a long way from competing and anyone who expected a record even nearing .500 this year spent too much time with their head in a paint can.

I picked the Chiefs to win 3 games this year dumbass. I had about as low of expectations as anyone. Nice guess on that.

Pioli created the "Right 53" mantra. The fans didn't. And the fans have every right to hold the GM to what he says. It's pretty sad that you justify the GM not being a man of his word. You're right though, we do need LBs, safeties, a NT, etc. The thing you're neglecting is that they had opportunities to fill some of those roles already, and for whatever reason they neglected a good portion of that. The fact that they only have a handful of the "Right 53" in place at this point is evidence that they've failed in player evaluation. There's no other way around it.

[ChiefsCountry]

Cowher is going to be coaching Carolina next year anyways. Its the worst kept secert in sports.

[Pioli Zombie]

You people are stupider on bye weeks than you are on regular weeks. Yes, Fire Haley. Pioli sucks. The draft was a failure. After 7 games. You are football expert geniuses.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DaneMcCloud]

The draft was a failure. After 7 games. You are football expert geniuses.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'd like for you to detail how and in what ways the 2009 draft was a success.

[TheGuardian]

I picked the Chiefs to win 3 games this year dumbass. I had about as low of expectations as anyone. Nice guess on that.

Pioli created the "Right 53" mantra. The fans didn't. And the fans have every right to hold the GM to what he says. It's pretty sad that you justify the GM not being a man of his word. You're right though, we do need LBs, safeties, a NT, etc. The thing you're neglecting is that they had opportunities to fill some of those roles already, and for whatever reason they neglected a good portion of that. The fact that they only have a handful of the "Right 53" in place at this point is evidence that they've failed in player evaluation. There's no other way around it.

No we didn't have the opportunity yet. This was about as piss poor of a FA pool as I remember seeing. And as I have pointed out many times, we didn't get anyone in worth signing that we missed on.

Second, if you picked the Chiefs to win 3 games then WTF are you complaining about "dumbass"??? Seems to me as if most everyone knew we would suck this year and that a big turnover in roster and change in mindset would have to take place. That doesn't happen in one year. So STFU about it holding a GM to some standard when the guy hasn't even had time to put his stamp on things.

[Pioli Zombie]

I'd like for you to detail how and in what ways the 2009 draft was a success.

Anyone. ANYONE, who thinks they can call a draft a success OR a failure after 7 games is a fucking moron.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Pioli Zombie]

Shake and Bake!!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

[TheGuardian]

I'd like for you to detail how and in what ways the 2009 draft was a success.

You can call a draft a success or failure after less than half a season into it?

Epic fail.

[DaneMcCloud]

You can call a draft a success or failure after less than half a season into it?

Epic fail.

Um, I can tell you that none of the 7 players drafted have had any impact.

I can tell you that the Chiefs could have signed a 5-tech in free agency for far less than what they're paying Jackson and had at least the same results.

I can tell you that Donald Washington is having less impact than many 4th round choices.

I can tell you that Colin Brown is having NO impact and was a poor choice to play tackle (which I did on draft day) although he might have some value at guard.

I can tell you that Quintin Lawrence and Javarris Williams have had no impact and most likely won't any impact in 2009.

And I can tell you that without a doubt, Jake O'Connell sucks ass.

So in brief, yes.

[DaneMcCloud]

Epic fail.

I don't think you understand that term.

But I'll tell you what: Subscribed to this thread and we'll check back in 3-4 years. I seriously doubt that any of these players become "impact" players.

[DeezNutz]

There should be no analysis of the Chiefs on this board because the new regime has had no time to act.

[DaneMcCloud]

No we didn't have the opportunity yet. This was about as piss poor of a FA pool as I remember seeing. And as I have pointed out many times, we didn't get anyone in worth signing that we missed on.

Second, if you picked the Chiefs to win 3 games then WTF are you complaining about "dumbass"??? Seems to me as if most everyone knew we would suck this year and that a big turnover in roster and change in mindset would have to take place. That doesn't happen in one year. So STFU about it holding a GM to some standard when the guy hasn't even had time to put his stamp on things.

Um, having the #3 choice in 7 rounds should have insured that the Chiefs got an impact player along the way.

There were people that would have helped the Chiefs available in free agency.

How you can defend a team so grossly undertalented, even after Pioli has brought in 30 of "his" players is beyond me.

[DaneMcCloud]

There should be no analysis of the Chiefs on this board because the new regime has had no time to act.

Do you really think that 9 months is enough time to evaluate the offensive line or defense?

You're putting too much pressure on people being paid $5 million dollars a year to make such decisions.

Dude, back off.

[chiefs1111]

Um, I can tell you that none of the 7 players drafted have had any impact.

I can tell you that the Chiefs could have signed a 5-tech in free agency for far less than what they're paying Jackson and had at least the same results.

I can tell you that Donald Washington is having less impact than many 4th round choices.

I can tell you that Colin Brown is having NO impact and was a poor choice to play tackle (which I did on draft day) although he might have some value at guard.

I can tell you that Quintin Lawrence and Javarris Williams have had no impact and most likely won't any impact in 2009.

And I can tell you that without a doubt, Jake O'Connell sucks ass.

So in brief, yes.

It's sad when the only player from the Chiefs draft that is playing worth a shit is a kicker who was taken with the last pick.

[Rausch]

I don't think you understand that term.

But I'll tell you what: Subscribed to this thread and we'll check back in 3-4 years. I seriously doubt that any of these players become "impact" players.

I seriously doubt you can bring the thread back up in 3-4 years....

[Rausch]

It's sad when the only player from the Chiefs draft that is playing worth a shit is a kicker who was taken with the last pick.

BEST K/P COMBO IN TEH LEAGUES BIDGES!1!

[DeezNutz]

Do you really think that 9 months is enough time to evaluate the offensive line or defense?

You're putting too much pressure on people being paid $5 million dollars a year to make such decisions.

Dude, back off.

It's just a fucking joke. We have no clue, absolutely no fucking idea, how successful the moves that Pioli has made will be in ten years.

And "9 months"? The season just started? Pull your head out of your ass.

[DeezNutz]

I seriously doubt you can bring the thread back up in 3-4 years....

2012, huh? Yeah, that will suck.

[Skip Towne]

BEST K/P COMBO IN TEH LEAGUES BIDGES!1!

Except the Raiders.

[Rausch]

2012, huh? Yeah, that will suck.

Yeah.

We'll all be under water or slaves to the lizard people or something...:eek:

[Rausch]

Except the Raiders.

Fuck you twice for ruining my day...:cuss:

[TheGuardian]

Um, having the #3 choice in 7 rounds should have insured that the Chiefs got an impact player along the way.

There were people that would have helped the Chiefs available in free agency.

How you can defend a team so grossly undertalented, even after Pioli has brought in 30 of "his" players is beyond me.

Right. Tyson Jackson is declared a non impact player after less than half a season of his rookie year. :rolleyes:

[kaplin42]

FTR, I've seen nothing to indicate that Bill Cowher is a good evaluator of talent. He seemed to finally understand the importance of a QB at the ass end of his Pitt tenure, but he has proven jack and **** on the pro personnel level.

I can say we don't have the team to run a Cowher offense. He likes to run the ball, a lot. You have to have a dominant O-line for that and we dont. LJ would be a good back for it, if he didnt suck ball sack and was a moody emo bitch.

In any case he is the most winningest coach. So i wouldnt say no. However, I am still on the Pioli/Haley bandwagon, and as usual disagree with most everything you have to say as I think you are a high horse riding Twunt

[FloridaMan88]

It's just a ****ing joke. We have no clue, absolutely no ****ing idea, how successful the moves that Pioli has made will be in ten years.

And "9 months"? The season just started? Pull your head out of your ass.

I think it is safe to say that even in 10 years, relying on the likes of Mike Goff and Bobby Engram as your only significant upgrades to the offense, around Cassel will be considered a fatal mistake by Pioli (especially considering the amount of salary cap room Pioli had to work with).

Those moves aren't going to look any better in 10 years.

[Pioli Zombie]

Um, I can tell you that none of the 7 players drafted have had any impact.

I can tell you that the Chiefs could have signed a 5-tech in free agency for far less than what they're paying Jackson and had at least the same results.

I can tell you that Donald Washington is having less impact than many 4th round choices.

I can tell you that Colin Brown is having NO impact and was a poor choice to play tackle (which I did on draft day) although he might have some value at guard.

I can tell you that Quintin Lawrence and Javarris Williams have had no impact and most likely won't any impact in 2009.

And I can tell you that without a doubt, Jake O'Connell sucks ass.

So in brief, yes.
Confirmed. You are a moron.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Danman]

Can't believe this thread made 11 pages

[DaneMcCloud]

Right. Tyson Jackson is declared a non impact player after less than half a season of his rookie year. :rolleyes:

Okay, so go ahead and tell us just who are the impact 5-tech's in the league, okay?

Considering they average about 40 tackles a year.

[MadMax]

No we didn't have the opportunity yet. This was about as piss poor of a FA pool as I remember seeing. And as I have pointed out many times, we didn't get anyone in worth signing that we missed on.

Second, if you picked the Chiefs to win 3 games then WTF are you complaining about "dumbass"??? Seems to me as if most everyone knew we would suck this year and that a big turnover in roster and change in mindset would have to take place. That doesn't happen in one year. So STFU about it holding a GM to some standard when the guy hasn't even had time to put his stamp on things.



I picked them to win 2. I did not expect them to sign Cassel, nor did I think it was a good move. I did not expect them to re-rebuld a team that had high draft picks the 3 previous years. I did expect them to show some player development with the younger players who at least had some upside. I did not expect them to bring in aging over the hill ex-pats players to fill the roster and take up valuable playing time. I guess I expected too much so fuck me i'm a dumbass too. Please tell me why I'm wrong and you are right.

[keg in kc]

Why don't we just go ahead and shoot ourselves now. It would be quicker and less painful.

[salame]

Right. Tyson Jackson is declared a non impact player after less than half a season of his rookie year. :rolleyes:

do you know anything about 3-4 defensive ends?

[sportsman1]

Come on now... Can Kansas City in general at least wait a season.. before its off with the heads of management?

[TinyEvel]

Guys, I must apologize.

I met KCbubb at the Chiefs Chargers game in SD last year, and told him about CP.

I had no idea he was a Herm homer and complete dillweed.

I guess the first rule of ChiefsPlanet is: you never talk about ChiefsPlanet.

[The Bronco Rob]

Pioli/Haley haven't went 3-30.


At this rate it will only take them two seasons....



:clap:

[TheGuardian]

Okay, so go ahead and tell us just who are the impact 5-tech's in the league, okay?

Considering they average about 40 tackles a year.

Richard Seymour was never an impact player?

Aaron Smith a few years ago wasn't an impact player?

Wayne Martin of the Saints dome patrol linebackers fame, he wasn't an impact player????

[TheGuardian]

do you know anything about 3-4 defensive ends?

Forgotten more than you will know.

[Demonpenz]

it would be nice, but it is just a dream, we are stuck with failoli and failey

[Chiefnj2]

A lot of planet members have a warped view of what an impact player is. Unless you put up certain stats, you aren't an impact player to some people.

[Fish]

No we didn't have the opportunity yet. This was about as piss poor of a FA pool as I remember seeing. And as I have pointed out many times, we didn't get anyone in worth signing that we missed on.

Second, if you picked the Chiefs to win 3 games then WTF are you complaining about "dumbass"??? Seems to me as if most everyone knew we would suck this year and that a big turnover in roster and change in mindset would have to take place. That doesn't happen in one year. So STFU about it holding a GM to some standard when the guy hasn't even had time to put his stamp on things.

Nice limited vision there. I predicted 3 wins, therefore I shouldn't criticize the team for anything since we might not even get 3 wins? That's quite the ignorant mindset. I don't care about how many wins we get this year. A team in this position shouldn't be judged solely on W-L record prediction. There are many more factors that you are foolishly ignoring. I care about improvement, player evaluation, and overall team direction. In those regards, I have plenty to criticize.

You may be content with simply equating W-L prediction with overall team progress, but some fans actually look at more than that when evaluating the team. I'll continue to hold the GM to what he says. You can continue to bend over and be patient. I'm done with that.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Admittedly, I have been dissapointed with the Chiefs. I expected them to be better, and I expected better coaching decisions.

I think they were a better team last year with less talent.

But, I think this team is laying the foundation. I think that Haley believes in doing things a certain way and will stick to it regardless of losses.

In the end, if he is right, this will build a stronger team.

Part of building the right foundation is the mentality of the players.... which is why they are content to bring in players they know over other guys.

The other part of this, is that until you actually get on the field with a guy, you don't know what he is capable of. You can watch film, but you don't know for sure how he would do in your system, with what you ask a guy to do.

I think the Chiefs were wise to limit their free agency moves. The Chiefs weren't going to contend for anything anyways this year. So, get the talent on the field, see what they can do, define the problem, and then start to solve the problem.

Patience is a virtue. I am happy to see an organization more focused on building a true winner, rather than perpetuating mediocrity.

It is about time the Chiefs were built the right way. I like the overall approach, even if I dissagree with certain things about the way the head coach has handled games, and the way the GM has handled other things.

Time will tell, but the one thing that is certain, and encouraging, is that this regime is clearly looking to the future.

[Fish]

Admittedly, I have been dissapointed with the Chiefs. I expected them to be better, and I expected better coaching decisions.

I think they were a better team last year with less talent.

But, I think this team is laying the foundation. I think that Haley believes in doing things a certain way and will stick to it regardless of losses.

In the end, if he is right, this will build a stronger team.

Part of building the right foundation is the mentality of the players.... which is why they are content to bring in players they know over other guys.

The other part of this, is that until you actually get on the field with a guy, you don't know what he is capable of. You can watch film, but you don't know for sure how he would do in your system, with what you ask a guy to do.

I think the Chiefs were wise to limit their free agency moves. The Chiefs weren't going to contend for anything anyways this year. So, get the talent on the field, see what they can do, define the problem, and then start to solve the problem.

Patience is a virtue. I am happy to see an organization more focused on building a true winner, rather than perpetuating mediocrity.

It is about time the Chiefs were built the right way. I like the overall approach, even if I dissagree with certain things about the way the head coach has handled games, and the way the GM has handled other things.

Time will tell, but the one thing that is certain, and encouraging, is that this regime is clearly looking to the future.

Since you say that, I have to ask. What do you think Pioli and Haley's approach is exactly? Please define for me, what Pioli and Haley are doing that you really approve of. Because I'm having a hard time seeing a pattern to their process.

What is it in general, that gives you the feeling they are clearly looking to the future? What are the positives that make you patient with what they're doing? Where are you seeing progress?

[DaneMcCloud]

Richard Seymour was never an impact player?

Aaron Smith a few years ago wasn't an impact player?

Wayne Martin of the Saints dome patrol linebackers fame, he wasn't an impact player????

When surrounded by excellent talent, those three guys you mentioned played very well. But what I meant by "impact" is a guy who does something on their own - a game changer.

Tyson Jackson and the overwhelming majority of 3-4, 5-tech defensive ends are not the type of guys to put a team on their shoulders and lead them to victory.

IMO, the Chiefs needed the type of player at #3 overall that makes an impact on the game, not a guy who's primary job is to let other people make plays. Especially when the linebackers and safeties are not in place.

I've said this before and I'll say again: Tyson Jackson could turn out to be the greatest 5-tech player to ever play the game. But unless the Chiefs acquire outstanding linebackers and safeties, no one will even know or care.

And that for me makes it a wasted pick.

[wild1]

I think it's a general lack of knowledge about the 3-4 system that causes Jackson to get bashed here more than anything else. Is he productive or is he not will be a question we have to answer a couple of years down the road. But it's readily apparent that most people on this forum have no clue what a defensive end does in this system. Of course, it's not every critique that is like this, but so many seem to be simply rooted in "I didn't see him get a sack this week, he sucks"

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Since you say that, I have to ask. What do you think Pioli and Haley's approach is exactly? Please define for me, what Pioli and Haley are doing that you really approve of. Because I'm having a hard time seeing a pattern to their process.

What is it in general, that gives you the feeling they are clearly looking to the future? What are the positives that make you patient with what they're doing? Where are you seeing progress?


That is a very fair question.

#1) Most see the willingness to bing in familiar players as a weakness. I see it as a strength. The Chiefs are a fragile team right now, and I think they have to make sure the guys they bring in, have the right attitude.

#2) Patience. They didn't come in and make a ton of changes right away. Some think that this is a weakness. I don't. I think they were smart to get the talent on the field before they decided what guys could actually do.

#3) Cutting talented players that didn't fit the organization. They cut Pollard and Boone. They are both guys that have talent and could have fit this system. This is frustrating on the surface. But, I think they were looking at more than just talent. They were looking at chemistry and accountability.

#4) Lack of panic. Cassel has struggled. It would be easy for the Chiefs to start Brodie to try to get a 'spark'. Or for them to draw up more gimmick plays like the Chiefs did last year. It would be easy to cave in and give DJ his starting job back.

I just see a steady hand guiding the organization.

Now, I have been critical of Haley and if Haley loses the team, then he should be fire when that happens.

But, until then, I think he should be given three years to build the team.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

When surrounded by excellent talent, those three guys you mentioned played very well. But what I meant by "impact" is a guy who does something on their own - a game changer.

Tyson Jackson and the overwhelming majority of 3-4, 5-tech defensive ends are not the type of guys to put a team on their shoulders and lead them to victory.

IMO, the Chiefs needed the type of player at #3 overall that makes an impact on the game, not a guy who's primary job is to let other people make plays. Especially when the linebackers and safeties are not in place.

I've said this before and I'll say again: Tyson Jackson could turn out to be the greatest 5-tech player to ever play the game. But unless the Chiefs acquire outstanding linebackers and safeties, no one will even know or care.

And that for me makes it a wasted pick.

If he turns out to be the best 5-tech ever, the Chiefs won't need outstanding linebackers.

So long as he is productive, and a legit starter, it isn't a wasted pick.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think it's a general lack of knowledge about the 3-4 system that causes Jackson to get bashed here more than anything else. Is he productive or is he not will be a question we have to answer a couple of years down the road. But it's readily apparent that most people on this forum have no clue what a defensive end does in this system. Of course, it's not every critique that is like this, but so many seem to be simply rooted in "I didn't see him get a sack this week, he sucks"

I don't buy that at all.

I just that think that the people you're describing would have rather seen the #3 overall pick used on a player like Moreno, Crabtree, Harvin, Maclin or even Oher.

Quantifiable results. Not this "well, if YOU knew what they were supposed to do" garbage.

[DeezNutz]

[QUOTE=SensibleChiefsfan;6227101]

#1) Most see the willingness to bing in familiar players as a weakness. I see it as a strength. The Chiefs are a fragile team right now, and I think they have to make sure the guys they bring in, have the right attitude.

[QUOTE]

Doesn't LJ undermine this argument, the thought that the "right 53" is more than empty rhetoric?

Oops. I fucked up the quotation.

[beach tribe]

I'm blown away that this thread has so many responses. I guess i'll have to read some of it, but to answer the ??, No. Duh. No. Absofuqinlutely not. It will NEVER happen, but I'm sure plenty have already told you the answer to such an easy ??.

[DaneMcCloud]

If he turns out to be the best 5-tech ever, the Chiefs won't need outstanding linebackers.

So long as he is productive, and a legit starter, it isn't a wasted pick.

Bullshit.

If the Chiefs don't acquire a Jon Abraham/Joey Porter/James Harrison type of pass rushing machine, Tyson Jackson's selection is even worse.

The linebackers in the 3-4 are THE playmakers. If there are no playmakers behind Jackson, guess what happens?

Oh yeah, I think we already know because we see it each and every week.

[beach tribe]

I don't buy that at all.

I just that think that the people you're describing would have rather seen the #3 overall pick used on a player like Moreno, Crabtree, Harvin, Maclin or even Oher.

Quantifiable results. Not this "well, if YOU knew what they were supposed to do" garbage.

People really would have wanted this team to pick a RB at #3?

Those people are morans.

[Chiefnj2]

Bullshit.

If the Chiefs don't acquire a Jon Abraham/Joey Porter/James Harrison type of pass rushing machine, Tyson Jackson's selection is even worse.

The linebackers in the 3-4 are THE playmakers. If there are no playmakers behind Jackson, guess what happens?

Oh yeah, I think we already know because we see it each and every week.

A 34 DE who ties up two OL and maybe helps contain the QB and push in the pocket enabling the OLB to get to the QB isn't a playmaker? Only the guy who actually gets the sack is the playmaker?

[beach tribe]

Bullshit.

If the Chiefs don't acquire a Jon Abraham/Joey Porter/James Harrison type of pass rushing machine, Tyson Jackson's selection is even worse.

The linebackers in the 3-4 are THE playmakers. If there are no playmakers behind Jackson, guess what happens?

Oh yeah, I think we already know because we see it each and every week.

God we need a pass rusher. I think TJ, and maybe even Dorsey, are going to make some decent pass rushers look pretty good.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

[QUOTE=SensibleChiefsfan;6227101]

#1) Most see the willingness to bing in familiar players as a weakness. I see it as a strength. The Chiefs are a fragile team right now, and I think they have to make sure the guys they bring in, have the right attitude.

[QUOTE]

Doesn't LJ undermine this argument, the thought that the "right 53" is more than empty rhetoric?

Oops. I ****ed up the quotation.

Remember, LJ said and did all the right things for all of offseason and the beginning of the regular season.

LJ worked hard, dropped weight and was a class citizen by all accounts.

Now, they are in a bad spot. If they cut him, they tell the team that if they want out, they just have to act up.

They are going to keep him on and make him live with the mess he made. No easy out.

Haley told everyone at the beginning that they were starting with a clean slate. He kept his word. That is how LJ was still here.

It would be different if they brought in guys that had problems like this. I think then, you could say my argument was invalid.

LJ was an prexisting condition that they are doing their best to work with.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Bullshit.

If the Chiefs don't acquire a Jon Abraham/Joey Porter/James Harrison type of pass rushing machine, Tyson Jackson's selection is even worse.

The linebackers in the 3-4 are THE playmakers. If there are no playmakers behind Jackson, guess what happens?

Oh yeah, I think we already know because we see it each and every week.

Yeah, why don't you look at where the Steelers typically draft their outstanding pass rushing linebackers. Hmmm. And, why don't you look at how those same linebackers typically do when they leave there. Hmmm.

It is a team effort. And, I will give Jackson a little bit of slack for not being dominant seven games into his career.

Now, for the record, Jackson was not my favorite pick. But, to say regardless of how good he is... it is a wasted pick... is moronic.

[BossChief]

When surrounded by excellent talent, those three guys you mentioned played very well. But what I meant by "impact" is a guy who does something on their own - a game changer.

Tyson Jackson and the overwhelming majority of 3-4, 5-tech defensive ends are not the type of guys to put a team on their shoulders and lead them to victory.

IMO, the Chiefs needed the type of player at #3 overall that makes an impact on the game, not a guy who's primary job is to let other people make plays. Especially when the linebackers and safeties are not in place.

I've said this before and I'll say again: Tyson Jackson could turn out to be the greatest 5-tech player to ever play the game. But unless the Chiefs acquire outstanding linebackers and safeties, no one will even know or care.

And that for me makes it a wasted pick.

While I agree with this, dont you realize that you have to build the foundation first? Good teams do.

If TJ does his job, our rush defense will be much improved for years to come and the rushbacker we hand select to play behind him will excell.

The dline is every bit as important to the defense as the oline is to the offense. Without it the talent cant do its thing.

Its WAAAAAAY to early to be calling it a wasted pick.

Nobody we chose was gonna come in and turn this thing around single-handedly.

[Fish]

That is a very fair question.

#1) Most see the willingness to bing in familiar players as a weakness. I see it as a strength. The Chiefs are a fragile team right now, and I think they have to make sure the guys they bring in, have the right attitude.

#2) Patience. They didn't come in and make a ton of changes right away. Some think that this is a weakness. I don't. I think they were smart to get the talent on the field before they decided what guys could actually do.

#3) Cutting talented players that didn't fit the organization. They cut Pollard and Boone. They are both guys that have talent and could have fit this system. This is frustrating on the surface. But, I think they were looking at more than just talent. They were looking at chemistry and accountability.

#4) Lack of panic. Cassel has struggled. It would be easy for the Chiefs to start Brodie to try to get a 'spark'. Or for them to draw up more gimmick plays like the Chiefs did last year. It would be easy to cave in and give DJ his starting job back.

I just see a steady hand guiding the organization.

Now, I have been critical of Haley and if Haley loses the team, then he should be fire when that happens.

But, until then, I think he should be given three years to build the team.

I see what you're saying. Although I do see #1,2 as a weakness. I felt that this team desperately needed the chainsaw approach to team building. Most of these young players got game action last season thanks to the youth movement, so we knew what we had with most of them. The weaknesses on the team were obvious to most folks. I think those weaknesses needed bombed and rebuilt, and patience had no value there.

#3 I understand, but I just think they've done a piss poor job of it.

#4 is a good point.

[beach tribe]

While I agree with this, dont you realize that you have to build the foundation first? Good teams do.

If TJ does his job, our rush defense will be much improved for years to come and the rushbacker we hand select to play behind him will excell.

The dline is every bit as important to the defense as the oline is to the offense. Without it the talent cant do its thing.

Its WAAAAAAY to early to be calling it a wasted pick.

Nobody we chose was gonna come in and turn this thing around single-handedly.

Correct. If we had chosen a playmaking pass rusher he probably would be getting double teamed every play because we didn't have any 5 tech DEs worth a shit.

[BossChief]

Correct. If we had chosen a playmaking pass rusher he probably would be getting double teamed every play because we didn't have any 5 tech DEs worth a shit.

exactly

and I also think it is pretty foolish to say its a wasted pick to select a guy that can neutralize two olinemen....that is like having 12 men on defense!

Guys like Tyson can do that and let average pass rushers look great.


Im DEFINATLY saying I dont agree fully with the move to the 3-4 in the first place, but change of massive proportions were needed to get the taste of 6 wins out of 32 games out of our mouth.

[DaneMcCloud]

While I agree with this, dont you realize that you have to build the foundation first? Good teams do.

If TJ does his job, our rush defense will be much improved for years to come and the rushbacker we hand select to play behind him will excell.

The dline is every bit as important to the defense as the oline is to the offense. Without it the talent cant do its thing.

Its WAAAAAAY to early to be calling it a wasted pick.

Nobody we chose was gonna come in and turn this thing around single-handedly.

:shake:

No, I DO BELIEVE that it's necessary to build a "foundation". If that's the case, why did Pioli virtually IGNORE the worst offensive line in the league?

The Chiefs had a bevy of 4-3 defensive lineman that were entering the second and third years. They were MUCH closer with a 4-3 defense than a 3-4. PIOLI chose to dump those players in favor a 3-4, not to just "build" a foundation.

The "foundation" was already there! They should have stayed with the 4-3, added Rey Maualuga, drafted a pass rushing DE late and focused on the offense.

The move for Jackson had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with building a mythical "foundation" and EVERYTHING to do with his stubborness to continue with a 4-3.

And furthermore, if the Chiefs DON'T acquire at least two pass rushing OLB AND a nose tackle, this scheme is fucked.

[DaneMcCloud]

Correct. If we had chosen a playmaking pass rusher he probably would be getting double teamed every play because we didn't have any 5 tech DEs worth a shit.

Really? So, those guys weren't available in free agency? You're telling us that is was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to take Tyson Jackson at #3 overall?

JFC.

:shake:

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah, why don't you look at where the Steelers typically draft their outstanding pass rushing linebackers. Hmmm. And, why don't you look at how those same linebackers typically do when they leave there. Hmmm.

It is a team effort. And, I will give Jackson a little bit of slack for not being dominant seven games into his career.

Now, for the record, Jackson was not my favorite pick. But, to say regardless of how good he is... it is a wasted pick... is moronic.

No, it's not.

And what the fuck are you talking about when referring to the Steelers linebackers? That they majority were drafted in the second round? Duh.

The Steelers drafted a 5 tech this year. At number 32 overall. THAT'S where you draft a 5-tech.

Not at #3.

[BigChiefFan]

All 32 teams improve every year and also win the Super Bowl, didn't you get the memo?

Pioli's been here less than a year and some act like, all he needed was to wave his magic wand and the team would instantly be upgraded. For the umpteenth time, Pioli DID NOT IGNORE the O-LINE! He added Goff, Ndukwe, Alleman, O'Callaghan, and the kid from Mizzou. THAT'S FIVE new o-line players on the roster. That argument is officially debunked and no longer acceptable in my book.

[ct]

:shake:

No, I DO BELIEVE that it's necessary to build a "foundation". If that's the case, why did Pioli virtually IGNORE the worst offensive line in the league?

The Chiefs had a bevy of 4-3 defensive lineman that were entering the second and third years. They were MUCH closer with a 4-3 defense than a 3-4. PIOLI chose to dump those players in favor a 3-4, not to just "build" a foundation.

The "foundation" was already there! They should have stayed with the 4-3, added Rey Maualuga, drafted a pass rushing DE late and focused on the offense.

The move for Jackson had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with building a mythical "foundation" and EVERYTHING to do with his stubborness to continue with a 4-3.

And furthermore, if the Chiefs DON'T acquire at least two pass rushing OLB AND a nose tackle, this scheme is ****ed.

What sense does it make to hire a man then expect him to continue with a program that is not his? and furthermore a program that was very clearly not working?

Just because YOU have no belief in starting over when YOU felt we were close, means zilch to the man in charge.

[Fish]

All 32 teams improve every year and also win the Super Bowl, didn't you get the memo?

Pioli's been here less than a year and some act like, all he needed was to wave his magic wand and the team would instantly be upgraded. For the umpteenth time, Pioli DID NOT IGNORE the O-LINE! He added Goff, Ndukwe, Alleman, O'Callaghan, and the kid from Mizzou. THAT'S FIVE new o-line players on the roster. That argument is officially debunked and no longer acceptable in my book.

:shake:

That's equivalent to Firemen bring a squirt gun to a burning building and saying "See! We tried, but it burned down. Ahh shucks, we'll get the next one."

That's not acceptable to me. None of those 5 you listed would likely start for any other team in the league. That's not improvement.

[BossChief]

:shake:

No, I DO BELIEVE that it's necessary to build a "foundation". If that's the case, why did Pioli virtually IGNORE the worst offensive line in the league?

The Chiefs had a bevy of 4-3 defensive lineman that were entering the second and third years. They were MUCH closer with a 4-3 defense than a 3-4. PIOLI chose to dump those players in favor a 3-4, not to just "build" a foundation.

The "foundation" was already there! They should have stayed with the 4-3, added Rey Maualuga, drafted a pass rushing DE late and focused on the offense.

The move for Jackson had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with building a mythical "foundation" and EVERYTHING to do with his stubborness to continue with a 4-3.

And furthermore, if the Chiefs DON'T acquire at least two pass rushing OLB AND a nose tackle, this scheme is ****ed.
I agree 100% with the bolded part, it was very very puzzling. I wont even try to justify it because I would be 100% wrong. You'd have to ask the guy who played a huge part in building the roster of a team with three superbowl trophies and four appearances in ten years along with the executive of the year award, Im sure he made mistakes along the way.

I also believe we were closer than perception of getting to the point of fielding a decent 4-3, but we were horrible at it for 10 years and drastic change was needed. Do I agree with jettisoning the talent we had in place to change schemes, no.

Hali is as good a pass rusher as most of the olbs NE had playing behind Ty and Dick. That leaves one, and if we decide to draft a good one, he will have a chance at excelling now BECAUSE WE HAVE A GOOD 5TEC!

There is no doubt we need a dominant NT for this thing to work, the writing is on the wall and has been since the day we decided to make the switch.

[DaneMcCloud]

All 32 teams improve every year and also win the Super Bowl, didn't you get the memo?

Pioli's been here less than a year and some act like, all he needed was to wave his magic wand and the team would instantly be upgraded. For the umpteenth time, Pioli DID NOT IGNORE the O-LINE! He added Goff, Ndukwe, Alleman, O'Callaghan, and the kid from Mizzou. THAT'S FIVE new o-line players on the roster. That argument is officially debunked and no longer acceptable in my book.

This HAS to be a joke.

A 33 year old guard who can't play any more.

Two players that Miami were going to cut for their FIRST cutdowns, not their second. An offensive tackle who didn't even have a profile on NFL.com! He sucked at tackle and was moved to guard.

And O'C was acquired on waivers AFTER the start of the season.

You're telling us that he adequately address the WORST offensive line in the league? The SAME line that put two QB's on IR the previous year?

Huh?

[DaneMcCloud]

What sense does it make to hire a man then expect him to continue with a program that is not his? and furthermore a program that was very clearly not working?

So, it wasn't working, eh?

You mean after two years, Tank & Turk & Dorsey (after one) were supposed to be Pro Bowlers?

Yet all I hear from Piolisuckers is that you have to "give it time"?

What a load of horseshit.

Just because YOU have no belief in starting over when YOU felt we were close, means zilch to the man in charge.

Then go fuck yourself and find another football forum to suck "the man in charge's" cock.

[DaneMcCloud]

Hali is as good a pass rusher as most of the olbs NE had playing behind Ty and Dick. That leaves one, and if we decide to draft a good one, he will have a chance at excelling now BECAUSE WE HAVE A GOOD 5TEC!

Hali IS NOT special. I'm really fucking sick of people proclaiming him to be ANYTHING other than average at best. I know this will bring out the wrath of TheGuardian and SenselessFuckingChiefsFan, but the bottom line is that the guy is NOTHING special.

And you're missing the part about NE having a monster secondary. While their outside linebackers weren't beasts on the scale of Abraham, Porter or Harrison, they were very solid, consistent players.

The Chiefs need to fill ALL four linebacking spots, both safety spots AND their NT position to even begin to be compared to the Patriots defense.

And even then, the Patriots weren't in the same league as other 3-4 defenses such as Baltimore or Pittsburgh. That's another level entirely.

[BossChief]

What sense does it make to hire a man then expect him to continue with a program that is not his? and furthermore a program that was very clearly not working?

Just because YOU have no belief in starting over when YOU felt we were close, means zilch to the man in charge.

...dont let facts cloud Mr McClouds arguement!

He seems to not realize we broke the nfl record for dline futility last year.

no sacks (nfl record low 10)
horrible rush defense (our safeties were our top and third leading tacklers)




LOL

"The foundation was already in place"

You crack me up Dane!

[DaneMcCloud]

...dont let facts cloud Mr McClouds arguement!

He seems to not realize we broke the nfl record for dline futility last year.

no sacks (nfl record low 10)
horrible rush defense (our safeties were our top and third leading tacklers)




LOL

"The foundation was already in place"

You crack me up Dane!

You're a fucking moron. Seriously.

Tank & Turk are playing elsewhere in the NFL. Dorsey's again playing out of position. The cornerbacks are solid. Pollard was solid (and is solid in Texas).

The Chiefs needed a monster linebacker like Maualuga, another OLB and a pass rushing RDE. They weren't far away from being a solid unit, Assface.

Now, they need FOUR linebackers, TWO safeties and Nose Tackle.

That should only take three or four years.

Dummy.

[TheGuardian]

Hali IS NOT special. I'm really ****ing sick of people proclaiming him to be ANYTHING other than average at best. I know this will bring out the wrath of TheGuardian and Senseless****ingChiefsFan, but the bottom line is that the guy is NOTHING special.

And you're missing the part about NE having a monster secondary. While their outside linebackers weren't beasts on the scale of Abraham, Porter or Harrison, they were very solid, consistent players.

The Chiefs need to fill ALL four linebacking spots, both safety spots AND their NT position to even begin to be compared to the Patriots defense.

And even then, the Patriots weren't in the same league as other 3-4 defenses such as Baltimore or Pittsburgh. That's another level entirely.

It's not going to bring out my "wrath". All I've ever said about the guy is that he's a solid player. We don't need to be looking to replace Hali if that is what you are getting at. We have a lot of problems, he's not one of them.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

It has nothing to do with the W's and L's. The problem stems from the myopic dipshittery of the regime, thinking that because players came from NE, Miami, Dallas, or Az that they are the only worthwhile NFL players. Compound that with the belief that the 3-4 is the only defense to run, and you have rampant cocksuckery and ineffectiveness which belies itself in the weekly performance.

LMAO BURN!

I agree 100%

BUT

take into consideration that Pioli is working off information by HERMS SCOUTS.



No they're not. Those guys were fired months ago.

[DaneMcCloud]

It's not going to bring out my "wrath". All I've ever said about the guy is that he's a solid player. We don't need to be looking to replace Hali if that is what you are getting at. We have a lot of problems, he's not one of them.

Well, that, I agree with.

He's the only member of the linebacking corp that doesn't need to be immediately replaced. I'd imagine that he'll be on the squad for at least 2 more years as a starter, if not three.

[BossChief]

Hali IS NOT special. I'm really ****ing sick of people proclaiming him to be ANYTHING other than average at best. I know this will bring out the wrath of TheGuardian and Senseless****ingChiefsFan, but the bottom line is that the guy is NOTHING special.

And you're missing the part about NE having a monster secondary. While their outside linebackers weren't beasts on the scale of Abraham, Porter or Harrison, they were very solid, consistent players.

The Chiefs need to fill ALL four linebacking spots, both safety spots AND their NT position to even begin to be compared to the Patriots defense.

And even then, the Patriots weren't in the same league as other 3-4 defenses such as Baltimore or Pittsburgh. That's another level entirely.

I never said he was more than average. Never have, he isnt. He isnt bad enough that he is any kind of priority to replace either.

Just more of you putting words in someones mouth to feel important.

One of our safeties will stick, and not necessarily either starter, but we could definitely use a star, playmaking safety to help the weak link that has been the chink in the armour of the secondary so far.

IMO we need three lbers (one being a star pass rusher), one safety (playmaking variety) and a dominant nose to have a chance at consistently hold teams to 20 or less week in and week out.

[DaneMcCloud]

take into consideration that Pioli is working off information by HERMS SCOUTS.

This is another horseshit statement that you failed to address.

[DaneMcCloud]

I never said he was more than average. Never have, he isnt. He isnt bad enough that he is any kind of priority to replace either.

Just more of you putting words in someones mouth to feel important.

Oh, fuck off.

One of our safeties will stick, and not necessarily either starter, but we could definitely use a star, playmaking safety to help the weak link that has been the chink in the armour of the secondary so far.

Is this English? Is English your first language or second? Because I don't even know what you're attempting to state.

IMO we need three lbers (one being a star pass rusher), one safety (playmaking variety) and a dominant nose to have a chance at consistently hold teams to 20 or less week in and week out.

Yay! So the Chiefs only THREE playmakers: An OLB, a safety and a MONSTER nose tackle to hold a team UNDER 20.

Yeah, those guys grow on trees and are available each and every year.

:shake:

[BossChief]

You're a ****ing moron. Seriously.

Tank & Turk are playing elsewhere in the NFL. Dorsey's again playing out of position. The cornerbacks are solid. Pollard was solid (and is solid in Texas).

The Chiefs needed a monster linebacker like Maualuga, another OLB and a pass rushing RDE. They weren't far away from being a solid unit, Assface.

Now, they need FOUR linebackers, TWO safeties and Nose Tackle.

That should only take three or four years.

Dummy.
this is just classic

From what you saw last year, you think we only needed 2 linebackers and a end? Really???

and you are the one with "rainbows and unicorns" in your sig and then you post this kinda stuff.

Keep going its great!!

ROFL

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

This HAS to be a joke.



Two players that Miami were going to cut for their FIRST cutdowns, not their second. An offensive tackle who didn't even have a profile on NFL.com! He sucked at tackle and was moved to guard.



Two players from Miami who said to the press, "what did they get for us; some chewing gum and toenail clippings"?
Two players who belittled their own trade value!LMAO

PIOLI!:thumb:

[BossChief]

No they're not. Those guys were fired months ago.

we were talking about the draft and udfas along with first cuts at the time.

take it out of context though, be my guest

[DaneMcCloud]

this is just classic

From what you saw last year, you think we only needed 2 linebackers and a end? Really???

and you are the one with "rainbows and unicorns" in your sig and then you post this kinda stuff.

Keep going its great!!

ROFL

You're a fucking idiot. Seriously. If the Chiefs had kept Jared Allen, do you really think they'd have performed so poorly last year?

I really don't think you know a fucking thing about the NFL.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

we were talking about the draft and udfas along with first cuts at the time.

take it out of context though, be my guest

Ah. Next time try "they were" instead of "they are".:D

[BossChief]

Oh, **** off.



Is this English? Is English your first language or second? Because I don't even know what you're attempting to state.



Yay! So the Chiefs only THREE playmakers: An OLB, a safety and a MONSTER nose tackle to hold a team UNDER 20.

Yeah, those guys grow on trees and are available each and every year.

:shake:

let me help you:

I think out of McGraw/Morgan/Page one of them will stick as a starter for a few years here.

There ya go, its in crayon so it makes it easier for you! Is that better?

[DaneMcCloud]

let me help you:

I think out of McGraw/Morgan/Page one of them will stick as a starter for a few years here.

There ya go, its in crayon so it makes it easier for you! Is that better?

Why do you think that?

[BossChief]

You're a ****ing idiot. Seriously. If the Chiefs had kept Jared Allen, do you really think they'd have performed so poorly last year?

I really don't think you know a ****ing thing about the NFL.

So, now you want to move the goalposts to make yourself feel better and put more words in my mouth?

I hated the Jared Allen trade, that doesn't mean Pioli should have kept rolling with the fucking 4-3 after he was gone does it, idiot?

JFC <---------see how I did that?

Just quit while your behind!

[BossChief]

Why do you think that?

you want the answer in ink or crayon?

[dallaschiefsfan]

In response to the OP........NO. Never going to happen.

[Brock]

you want the answer in ink or crayon?

Where's that link for the statement you keep making about the Packers offering 2 1st round picks for Larry Johnson? You can post it in your favorite lipstick for all I care.

[Chiefnj2]

Pollard was solid? Now we have people defending Pollard and arguing KC should have stuck with him? Where was this support 2 months ago?

[salame]

While I agree with this, dont you realize that you have to build the foundation first? Good teams do.

If TJ does his job, our rush defense will be much improved for years to come and the rushbacker we hand select to play behind him will excell.

The dline is every bit as important to the defense as the oline is to the offense. Without it the talent cant do its thing.

Its WAAAAAAY to early to be calling it a wasted pick.

Nobody we chose was gonna come in and turn this thing around single-handedly.

rushbacker lol

[BossChief]

Where's that link for the statement you keep making about the Packers offering 2 1st round picks for Larry Johnson? You can post it in your favorite lipstick for all I care.
I already answered you, I had it bookmarked on my old computer and couldn't find it again, only one saying they offered a 1 and 4, I retracted the statement because I couldn't prove it. I love how a statement I made once now has turned into "keep making" though...

I would have traded him for just a 1 at the time, I would link my posts from back then to show that was my stance, but it was before my time here and the CC crashed and had to restart everything a year and a half ago.

Boy would that 1 would look good right now (assuming we wouldnt have just wasted the pick anyway)!

[BossChief]

rushbacker lol

somewhat witty, huh!

[DaneMcCloud]

Pollard was solid? Now we have people defending Pollard and arguing KC should have stuck with him? Where was this support 2 months ago?

Hey, you won't find me in the camp that wanted to replace Pollard NOW.

Down the line, sure. That would hopefully be DaJuan Morgan. But the Chiefs had MUCH greater needs on defense than replacing Pollard.

And they sure didn't need to go backwards, which is exactly what they have done.

[BossChief]

Pollard was solid? Now we have people defending Pollard and arguing KC should have stuck with him? Where was this support 2 months ago?

not on this board.

I defended Pollard in the preseason when he wasnt playing well and I got three neg reps for my effort, I decided not to pursue that further.

I posted the link to the Texans site where I started an account and asked them how Pollard was doing and all the "supporters" came out of the woodwork.

[salame]

somewhat witty, huh!

No, it's really retarded. You say it all the time and I make fun of it all the time. There is no such position as "rushbacker"
All of your arguments are terrible and you consistently make yourself look like a moran.

Go away.

[BossChief]

No, it's really retarded. You say it all the time and I make fun of it all the time. There is no such position as "rushbacker"
All of your arguments are terrible and you consistently make yourself look like a moran.

Go away.

The rolb in a 3-4 is basically the same as a rde in a 4-3 with a few more responsibilities, rushing the passer is the main responsibility as well as setting the edge in stopping the run. Hence my use of rushbacker in place of rolb.

your welcome!

now fuck off!

[salame]

The rolb in a 3-4 is basically the same as a rde in a 4-3 with a few more responsibilities, rushing the passer is the main responsibility as well as setting the edge in stopping the run. Hence my use of rushbacker in place of rolb.

your welcome!

now **** off!

Look I know you had some grand idea that it would catch on and everyone would be saying rushbacker and you would feel really cool. But it's not happening and again you just look sad and retarded like every single argument I have seen you make in this thread.

[DaneMcCloud]

Look I know you had some grand idea that it would catch on and everyone would be saying rushbacker and you would feel really cool. But it's not happening and again you just look sad and retarded like every single argument I have seen you make in this thread.

He makes all kinds of silly arguments that don't stick.

I have no idea how the guy has any green.

[DaneMcCloud]

The rolb in a 3-4 is basically the same as a rde in a 4-3 with a few more responsibilities, rushing the passer is the main responsibility as well as setting the edge in stopping the run. Hence my use of rushbacker in place of rolb.

your welcome!

now fuck off!

Um, what about dropping into coverage? That's a pretty HUGE responsibility.

MOST 4-3 defensive ends have extremely difficulty making that transition because of that particular responsibility.

Man, you truly are clueless.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Pollard was solid? Now we have people defending Pollard and arguing KC should have stuck with him? Where was this support 2 months ago?

You can go back and look... I never bashed the guy. I think both he and McBride will have solid careers, but I don't think McBride fit here.

I also think that Boone has another couple years or productivity.

[BossChief]

Um, what about dropping into coverage? That's a pretty HUGE responsibility.

MOST 4-3 defensive ends have extremely difficulty making that transition because of that particular responsibility.

Man, you truly are clueless.

you must have missed my "among other responsibilities" part of the post you quoted..

was it the ink? Sorry, Ill try to remember to buy more crayons next time Im at the store just for you snookums.

are you saying Hali has been poor at dropping back in coverage?

I remember him not "taking the cheese" against Rivers and the running back. By "taking the cheese" I meant come off his coverage responsibility to go for the qb, allowing an easy dump for a medium gain....but other than that I havent really paid too much attention to it so, he may be bad at it.

[salame]

neg rep me all you want boss chief you are still a moran

[BossChief]

neg rep me all you want boss chief you are still a moran

I only returned the favor!

moran

[salame]

I only returned the favor!

moran

http://www.yodawgyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/yo-dawg-at-first-i-was-like.jpg

[SenselessChiefsFan]

No, it's not.

And what the **** are you talking about when referring to the Steelers linebackers? That they majority were drafted in the second round? Duh.

The Steelers drafted a 5 tech this year. At number 32 overall. THAT'S where you draft a 5-tech.

Not at #3.What round was James Harrison drafted in?

[salame]

What round was James Harrison drafted in?

he played at kent state though c'mon
and he was cut like 4 times by the steelers
and went to nfl europe
and got cut there

[DaneMcCloud]

What round was James Harrison drafted in?

So you're implying that every undrafted free agent linebacker becomes a franchise player and Pro Bowler?

You really are a fucking idiot.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

So you're implying that every undrafted free agent linebacker becomes a franchise player and Pro Bowler?

You really are a ****ing idiot.

No, moron.

I am saying that pass rushing OLB's are easier to find than good pass rushing DE's. That is why many teams go to it.

And, with a good front three, you don't have to have total studs at the linebacking level.

If you look at the Steelers, they don't have many great linebackers taken in the first round. Actually, if you look historically at 3-4 defenses, the linebackers aren't typically taken at the top of the draft.

But, don't let the facts get in the way of your moronic argument about how Jackson could be the best 5 tech ever and still be a wasted pick.

I didn't even like the pick that much, and still realize that is about as obtuse as you can be, and proves how little you really know about the game.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

he played at kent state though c'mon
and he was cut like 4 times by the steelers
and went to nfl europe
and got cut there

The point is that teams typically find good OLB's in a 3-4 easier than good DE's in a 4-3. The point is that with a good front three, you don't have to have 'outstanding' OLB's as Dane thinks.

[DaneMcCloud]

I didn't even like the pick that much, and still realize that is about as obtuse as you can be, and proves how little you really know about the game.

Really, Fucko?

Actually, the opposite is true: Most teams, including the NE Patriots, are moving away from the 3-4 and to the 4-3.

You're a fucking dickless moron.

[DaneMcCloud]

The point is that teams typically find good OLB's in a 3-4 easier than good DE's in a 4-3. The point is that with a good front three, you don't have to have 'outstanding' OLB's as Dane thinks.

You're a fucking idiot of EPIC proportions.

Why don't you go ahead and tell us exactly how many teams in the NFL are currently running the 3-4.

Fucking JACKASS.

[Deberg_1990]

Dane sure has a way of making friends on here. :)
Posted via Mobile Device

[BossChief]

Really, ****o?

Actually, the opposite is true: Most teams, including the NE Patriots, are moving away from the 3-4 and to the 4-3.

You're a ****ing dickless moron.

They may be, ever think that may have something to do with Pioli moving on?

[chiefzilla1501]

You're a ****ing idiot of EPIC proportions.

Why don't you go ahead and tell us exactly how many teams in the NFL are currently running the 3-4.

****ing JACKASS.

I don't understand your point.

In your previous comment, you said that more teams are moving away from a 3-4, which is untrue. Three teams added it this offseason (the Packers, Chiefs, and Broncos), while 1 team is moving away from it (the Pats).

If you're trying to argue that the Chiefs are chasing a trend by running a 3-4 and that's going to make it harder to find quality 3-4 players, I'm right there with you. I'm just trying to make sense of what you're trying to say here. Which is it?

[salame]

They may be, ever think that may have something to do with Pioli moving on?

Actually I read somewhere that it had something to do with jerod mayo being hurt and seymour leaving.