The next 4 games are going to tell us a lot...

[TheGuardian]

...about Matt Cassel. Some may say we already know a lot. I think the jury is partially out. When a guy gets benched and is a winner, he'll either come out breathing fire or he will wilt. I've seen it over and over. We don't have to win those games per say, but Cassel has to play his best games IMO. Not to mention we have some crappy teams coming up in Buffalo and Cleveland. I don't know that we need to draft a QB if he sucks it up, but I do believe we would really need to look at bringing in a solid vet to push him. I'm not sure who because I haven't really looked yet.

Cassel has shown in some games (Pitt game, 4th quarter Jags game) that he has the moxie at times, but it's just not consistent. IMO he needs to cement his status as STARTING QB for next season with this last quarter of the season. If he's great for 3 games, I'll take that. But IMO it's a minimum of 3 games where he plays his nuts off. If he doesn't come out breathing fire after getting benched, he's not our guy IMO. Again, JMO.

[Reerun_KC]

This thread is going to be fun....


Let the Whining begin!

[MoreLemonPledge]

The only thing that's not consistent is his receiving corps. And his playbook. And his offensive line.

Cassel is not the problem on this team, nor will he ever be the biggest strength. He's, at worst, a serviceable QB when he has the tools around him to be successful. Once that happens, then we'll be able to pass judgment on him. Until then, we have a lot of money invested in him, so he will play.

[DaKernal]

I'd rather see Croyle start the rest of the season, provided he can make it through four games.

[memyselfI]

Actually it will tell us more about Todd Failey. If this team has given up on him and doesn't care if he gets his walking papers. Cassel will be here. Failey is questionable, IMO.

[DaKernal]

Actually it will tell us more about Todd Failey. If this team has given up on him and doesn't care if he gets his walking papers. Cassel will be here. Failey is questionable, IMO.

This.


I still want to see Croyle though.


I dont know if it was just me, but Croyle looked like a hell of alot better QB the few times he dropped back to pass. He looked more comfortable in the pocket, his throws were crisp, and appeared to have way more confidence than Cassel.

[HemiEd]

Cassel is not the problem on this team, nor will he ever be the biggest strength. He's, at worst, a serviceable QB when he has the tools around him to be successful. Once that happens, then we'll be able to pass judgment on him. Until then, we have a lot of money invested in him, so he will play.

I think Cassel is the problem on this team right now. The QB is the most important cog, and he has been sucking ass.

The OLine is starting to get their act together, but Cassel isn't.

I agree with the thread starter, we shall see.

If he would just start showing some pocket awareness, and throw catchable balls, it would be a huge improvement. I would be shocked if he does, because I don't think he has the talent.

[Marcellus]

I'd rather see Croyle start the rest of the season, provided he can make it through four games.

For what exact reason? He makes it 4 games you think its time to hitch the wagon to him?

[Marcellus]

This.


I still want to see Croyle though.


I dont know if it was just me, but Croyle looked like a hell of alot better QB the few times he dropped back to pass. He looked more comfortable in the pocket, his throws were crisp, and appeared to have way more confidence than Cassel.

Yes his overthrows Sunday were extremely tight spirals.

And he looked as if he was shitting himself in the pocket. You did watch the last game right?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Unless he throws for 1200 yards and 10 TDs over the last four games and we win 3, there's no reason why next year shouldn't have a completely open QB competition.

There won't be one, just like there wasn't this year, but there should be one.

[DaKernal]

For what exact reason? He makes it 4 games you think its time to hitch the wagon to him?

No, not exactly. Mainly for the sake of watching Chiefs football. He looks to be a way more competent QB than Cassel, and the one game he started was probably the best our offense has looked for an entire game all season.

[Bane]

For what exact reason? He makes it 4 games you think its time to hitch the wagon to him?

Say we did start Brodie and by some miracle he played better than Cassel and stayed healthy....Uhm doesn't that creat a bigger problem than just us sucking?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Marcellus]

Unless he throws for 1200 yards and 10 TDs over the last four games and we win 3, there's no reason why next year shouldn't have a completely open QB competition.

There won't be one, just like there wasn't this year, but there should be one.

I'm not so sure about that but Croyle or whoever else is there would have to clearly play better in camp and preseason, it cant be close.

[DaKernal]

Yes his overthrows Sunday were extremely tight spirals.

And he looked as if he was shitting himself in the pocket. You did watch the last game right?

The only time I saw him shit himself was the first play when he was fucking pressured the second he took the snap.

He didn't look great, but better than Cassel IMO.

[DaneMcCloud]

Say we did start Brodie and by some miracle he played better than Cassel and stayed healthy....Uhm doesn't that creat a bigger problem than just us sucking?
Posted via Mobile Device

This would be a nice problem to have, IMO

[Reerun_KC]

IMO, Cassell will start the rest of the games, Haley and Co will continue to evaluate the players to determine who wants to quit and who wants to be here... Then they will enter the offseason and continue to implement their plan and build this team the way they seem fit...

[Marcellus]

Say we did start Brodie and by some miracle he played better than Cassel and stayed healthy....Uhm doesn't that creat a bigger problem than just us sucking?
Posted via Mobile Device

I think it would create a bigger problem. Then instead of trying to find another QB in the drat etc....we go into next year with a starting IR QB ready to happen and a high $ back up with crushed confidence.

[DaKernal]

Say we did start Brodie and by some miracle he played better than Cassel and stayed healthy....Uhm doesn't that creat a bigger problem than just us sucking?
Posted via Mobile Device

Thats a problem I can live with.

[Marcellus]

IMO, Cassell will start the rest of the games, Haley and Co will continue to evaluate the players to determine who wants to quit and who wants to be here... Then they will enter the offseason and continue to implement their plan and build this team the way they seem fit...

Exactamundo. I hope they evaluate a little better this off season.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Did you see how many passes his receivers dropped?

[Bane]

This would be a nice problem to have, IMO

Maybe so I'm just thinkn if that did happen you know the media would hammer Pioli for bringing in Cassel.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DaneMcCloud]

Maybe so I'm just thinkn if that did happen you know the media would hammer Pioli for bringing in Cassel.
Posted via Mobile Device

Somehow, I think Pioli could withstand the media onslaught from Whitlock, Babb and Teicher.

:D

[DaKernal]

I'm not saying i think Croyle is a long term solution, cause he is not, and I think our QBOTF is not on this roster. However, I think Croyle is a more watchable QB and could be more consistent than Cassel.

[Marcellus]

Thats a problem I can live with.

Yea lets give a shit ton of $ to a guy and give him 10 games to make or break his career.

Cassel has not played well, I understand that but he isn't getting much help either.

Brady hasn't looked very Brady like lately and Big Ben is getting demolished by hos o-line and style of play.

It isn't a one man sport.

[Reerun_KC]

Somehow, I think Pioli could withstand the media onslaught from Whitlock, Babb and Teicher.

:D

:clap:

QFT... I am sure Pioli is losing sleep over what these weak ass hacks are saying about him....

[philfree]

This would be a nice problem to have, IMO

Yes...We'll never be that lucky. (oh shit! you guys are rubbing off on me.)


PhilFree:arrow:

[Marcellus]

I'm not saying i think Croyle is a long term solution, cause he is not, and I think our QBOTF is not on this roster. However, I think Croyle is a more watchable QB and could be more consistent than Cassel.

If Croyle isn't the long term solution you dont bench Cassel to make the game more watchable, you continue to evaluate your high $ QB to see what he is made of.

[notorious]

This would be a nice problem to have, IMO

This

[ClevelandBronco]

...I don't know that we need to draft a QB if he sucks it up, but I do believe we would really need to look at bringing in a solid vet to push him. I'm not sure who because I haven't really looked yet.

You could take a look at Tom Brady.

[Reerun_KC]

Yes...We'll never be that lucky. (oh shit! you guys are rubbing off on me.)


PhilFree:arrow:

Maybe we should be thankful we arent that lucky? This messageboard fanbase is on a 24x7x365 menstural cycle... I dont think some have the mental compacity to withstand something that complex...

[DaKernal]

Yea lets give a shit ton of $ to a guy and give him 10 games to make or break his career.

Cassel has not played well, I understand that but he isn't getting much help either.

Brady hasn't looked very Brady like lately and Big Ben is getting demolished by hos o-line and style of play.

It isn't a one man sport.

I realize all of that. But just watching Cassel play, he looks like he would be servicable at best even if we put all pro talent around him.

[ChiefsCountry]

Say we did start Brodie and by some miracle he played better than Cassel and stayed healthy....Uhm doesn't that creat a bigger problem than just us sucking?
Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah bc Pioli's ego would be busted.

[Reerun_KC]

I realize all of that. But just watching Cassel play, he looks like he would be servicable at best even if we put all pro talent around him.

And your basing this off of?

[Marcellus]

This

I dont see hitching the wagon to Brodie as being a positive. His history shows he wouldn't be on the filed right now had he been playing the whole season.

I was a big Croyle fan until I got tired of watching him get carted into the locker room.

[Spott]

Well, the next two won't tell us much because we are playing teams that are as horrible as we are.

[Bane]

Somehow, I think Pioli could withstand the media onslaught from Whitlock, Babb and Teicher.

:D

I'm sure he can,especially after all the shit he's already been through.I just think it would make him look like a fool IF Brodie came in and made the team better.I really don't care for either QB honestly. I don't think it would matter who was under center as bad as we are and as many players as we need.
Posted via Mobile Device

[TheGuardian]

This is how I am feeling. That Cassel even with great players around him, might only be average.

Mind you, my position with every coach and player is to give them a chance. Yes, we're not through his first season, but we also aren't talking about a rookie. He basically played every game for the Pats last year. My point is, the guy just got benched. If he doesn't come out playing his balls off, we need to bring in someone who can at least challenge him for the starting spot. If we don't do that, we are setting ourselves up for failure next season. EVERYONE should always have a guy behind them pushing them until it is clear they are THE guy. Cassel has not earned that YET. He CAN earn it over the next 4 games IMO.

[Pablo]

Well, the next two won't tell us much because we are playing teams that are as horrible as we are.Pretty much.

Cassel could throw for 400 yards and 4 TD's each game; and some folks will say 'See, told you he was legit!' and some other folks will go 'It was the Bills and Browns, he still sucks'.

[Marcellus]

I realize all of that. But just watching Cassel play, he looks like he would be servicable at best even if we put all pro talent around him.

He was "servicable" in NE? That was allpro talent and he should have been in the probowl.


Brady isn't doing any better with the same team this year though he was missing Welker for part of the year.

That said we aren't going to get a Moss and Welker level receiving group anytime soon if ever.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm sure he can,especially after all the shit he's already been through.I just think it would make him look like a fool IF Brodie came in and made the team better.I really don't care for either QB honestly. I don't think it would matter who was under center as bad as we are and as many players as we need.
Posted via Mobile Device

Maybe, maybe not.

Winning solves all ills.

[ChiefsCountry]

The last two would tell me more about this team. Go into playoff teams house and compete would be more impressive than beating Buffalo and the team that makes us look like 72 Dolphins.

[DaneMcCloud]

Pretty much.

Cassel could throw for 400 yards and 4 TD's each game; and some folks will say 'See, told you he was legit!' and some other folks will go 'It was the Bills and Browns, he still sucks'.

And quite honestly, both camps would have a good argument.

I'll tell you one thing's for sure: If he throws for 400 yards and 4 TD's in each game to finish out the season, any quarterback controversy will have been effectively squashed.

[DaKernal]

If Croyle isn't the long term solution you dont bench Cassel to make the game more watchable, you continue to evaluate your high $ QB to see what he is made of.

What more is there to evaluate? He's played like shit all fucking year. Even his best game would be just an average game for an average QB. With the exception of a handful of drives this season he has played like complete ass and has shown NO flashes of being a good QB.

[Marcellus]

I'm sure he can,especially after all the shit he's already been through.I just think it would make him look like a fool IF Brodie came in and made the team better.I really don't care for either QB honestly. I don't think it would matter who was under center as bad as we are and as many players as we need.
Posted via Mobile Device

They (NE) gave a $100MM contract to Bledsoe and let him go 2 years later. Now granted that's pretty easy after the back up just won you a SB.

[WilliamTheIrish]

This roster will mail these 4 games in.

[Bane]

Maybe, maybe not.

Winning solves all ills.

Yeah I'm sure if we were 8-3 no one here would give a shit if we had a pro bowl anything.I know I wouldn't.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hammock Parties]

He's getting worse, not better.

It's incredibly disappointing.

He should get better when Bowe comes back, right? RIGHT?

He better.

[Hammock Parties]

This roster will mail these 4 games in.

Wouldn't surprise me based on what happened last week.

[DaneMcCloud]

They (NE) gave a $100MM contract to Bledsoe and let him go 2 years later. Now granted that's pretty easy after the back up just won you a SB.

C'mon, Dude, we've been over this: Bledsoe's contract was backloaded. All they paid him was $6 million.

Just like Albert Haynesworth: He didn't get a "$100 million dollar" contract. It's closer to $60 million and it's front loaded.

All that contract hype is just that: Hype.

Cassel got a $28 million dollar, two year deal.

If they cut him after this season (which is highly unlikely) they'll be out $14 million. I seriously doubt that happens.

2011 may be a different story.

[Reerun_KC]

This roster will mail these 4 games in.

Which in return will send ALOT of guys to the soup line looking for work... Which is a great scenerio... Do you want a roster full of players that quit all the time?

[DaKernal]

I've been a Cassel supporter for most of this season. I keep waiting for him to show SOMETHING, and I dont mean one or two drives. I wanna see this guy play at even an average level for an entire game. He has not done that. Croyle did it week 1.

[Marcellus]

What more is there to evaluate? He's played like shit all ****ing year. Even his best game would be just an average game for an average QB. With the exception of a handful of drives this season he has played like complete ass and has shown NO flashes of being a good QB.

Really, I know he has played like dog ass many games but you are exaggerating. He lead the team on game leading or tying drives against the Raiders (who have a decent defense) Pitt, and the Cowboys.

Don't act like he has done zero.

I really thought he would play much better but I am not going to say he hasn't shown he can play really well at times.

Just like this team, he isn't consistent enough. The defense is the same way, we are close to the league lead in defensive 3 and outs but cant do shit consistently.

[DaneMcCloud]

Which in return will send ALOT of guys to the soup line looking for work... Which is a great scenerio... Do you want a roster full of players that quit all the time?

Pioli brought in 30 new guys. They'll probably bring 30 new guys next year.

What this team is missing is the "core group" of players and you aren't likely to find those guys off the street.

Hopefully, they'll have a great draft in 2010 and players like Jackson, Magee, Brown and Washington contribute and ascend next year.

[Marcellus]

I've been a Cassel supporter for most of this season. I keep waiting for him to show SOMETHING, and I dont mean one or two drives. I wanna see this guy play at even an average level for an entire game. He has not done that. Croyle did it week 1.

We would have gotten destroyed without the INT and blocked punt. He didn't do anything overly impressive against the Ravens.

[Reerun_KC]

Pioli brought in 30 new guys. They'll probably bring 30 new guys next year.

What this team is missing is the "core group" of players and you aren't likely to find those guys off the street.

Hopefully, they'll have a great draft in 2010 and players like Jackson, Magee, Brown and Washington contribute and ascend next year.

:clap:

Couldnt agree more... Looking forward to this years off season... No excuses for not signing players that can have an immediate impact on this team.

Its time to be a player....

[WilliamTheIrish]

Wouldn't surprise me based on what happened last week.

I'm not being real fair. To be honest I don't think they laid down at all this year until the 4th quarter of the Denver game. That looked bad. But there are no moral victories.

This team really needs a win.

[Hammock Parties]

We would have gotten destroyed without the INT and blocked punt. He didn't do anything overly impressive against the Ravens.

Do you remember that TD pass to Sean Ryan? Croyle had a dude in his face and had to throw off his back foot.

That play was more impressive than any play Cassel made under pressure this year.

[Marcellus]

Do you remember that TD pass to Sean Ryan? Croyle had a dude in his face and had to throw off his back foot.

That play was more impressive than any play Cassel made under pressure this year.

You dont remember the bomb to Bowe as he was getting leveled? The Raiders game?

[DaKernal]

We would have gotten destroyed without the INT and blocked punt. He didn't do anything overly impressive against the Ravens.

your right he didn't do anything that impressive, but he was at least consistent for the entire game. Thats something Cassel hasnt done all year. He plays like shit, makes a play, plays like shit some more then has a nice drive at the end of the game. Thats not good enough. Croyle's play needs to be better as well, but I'd rather see a consistent QB than one who's up and down the whole game.

[DaKernal]

You dont remember the bomb to Bowe as he was getting leveled? The Raiders game?

That was a nice throw, but I dont think it was a bomb.

[Marcellus]

your right he didn't do anything that impressive, but he was at least consistent for the entire game. Thats something Cassel hasnt done all year. He plays like shit, makes a play, plays like shit some more then has a nice drive at the end of the game. Thats not good enough. Croyle's play needs to be better as well, but I'd rather see a consistent QB than one who's up and down the whole game.

177yrds passing Croyle had in that game.

I know we are comparing CAssel to Croyle but here is my point. If Cassel dont work out, I dont want Croyle I want somebody else so playing Croyle does shit to elp this team.

[DaKernal]

Like I said he's made some nice throws, but he's made ALOT more terrible ones.

[Hammock Parties]

177yrds passing Croyle had in that game.



Cassel had 84 last game.

[Hammock Parties]

You dont remember the bomb to Bowe as he was getting leveled? The Raiders game?

I remember it well. He had a clean pocket and stepped up into it. He wasn't leveled.

[DaKernal]

177yrds passing Croyle had in that game.

I know we are comparing CAssel to Croyle but here is my point. If Cassel dont work out, I dont want Croyle I want somebody else so playing Croyle does shit to elp this team.

Right now, playing Cassel doesn't do a whole lot either. He's hurting the offense more than helping it, more times than not.

[Marcellus]

I want to see Cassel improve or fail so we can decide what to do. To say he is a total failure after 10 games of mostly bad o-line and dropped passes doesn't seem right to me.

[DeezNutz]

The only thing that's not consistent is his receiving corps. And his playbook. And his offensive line.

Cassel is not the problem on this team, nor will he ever be the biggest strength. He's, at worst, a serviceable QB when he has the tools around him to be successful. Once that happens, then we'll be able to pass judgment on him. Until then, we have a lot of money invested in him, so he will play.

Yeah, his accuracy and poise in the pocket have been unflappable all season.

[DaKernal]

Sit his ass and make him watch Croyle lead the team the rest of the season. If that doesn't motivate him for next season, nothing will.

[philfree]

Nobody will know about Croyle until he can start for more than a couple games before he gets hurt. And then if/when he get hurt he becomes what we thought he was. What we whished he wasn't. I like Croyles release but.............


PhilFree:arrow:

[Marcellus]

Cassel had 84 last game.

I never said he didn't stink it up. Though when he did throw the ball decent he had at least 100 yards in dropped passes including 2 TD's and a sure 3rd down conversion.

And I'm not talking about the swing passes he overthrew.

If you think Bobby Wade shouldn't have caught that sure long TD pass you expect too much of your QB and not enough of your receivers.

It wasn't perfect but it was sure as hell catchable.

[DeezNutz]

Sit his ass and make him watch Croyle lead the team the rest of the season. If that doesn't motivate him for next season, nothing will.

Well, that would be fairly pointless.

The one thing we know with even more certainty is that Croyle is physically incapable of playing in the NFL.

We don't have anything more than a backup QB on this roster, but Cassel might be a decent one, at least.

Give him the snaps and look for the answer through the draft and/or FA. But, this won't happen this off-season, unfortunately, and we'll continue to suffer through Cassel's mediocrity for at least one more year.

[notorious]

I like Croyles release but.............


PhilFree:arrow:


It is a beautiful thing. To bad the body around that arm hasn't held up well.

Let's hope for a miracle.

[Marcellus]

Yeah, his accuracy and poise in the pocket have been unflappable all season.

No doubt he has been rattled and looked bad at times but benching him right now serves no purpose.

If he plays like ass the rest of the season there is a better chance they try to address the position in the offseason.

[Marcellus]

Well, that would be fairly pointless.

The one thing we know with even more certainty is that Croyle is physically incapable of playing in the NFL.

We don't have anything more than a backup QB on this roster, but Cassel might be a decent one, at least.

Give him the snaps and look for the answer through the draft and/or FA. But, this won't happen this off-season, unfortunately, and we'll continue to suffer through Cassel's mediocrity for at least one more year.

Exactly what I have been trying to say.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Yeah, his accuracy and poise in the pocket have been unflappable all season.

As has his offensive line, right? And his receivers are always open, right?

[DaKernal]

I never said he didn't stink it up. Though when he did throw the ball decent he had at least 100 yards in dropped passes including 2 TD's and a sure 3rd down conversion.

And I'm not talking about the swing passes he overthrew.

If you think Bobby Wade shouldn't have caught that sure long TD pass you expect too much of your QB and not enough of your receivers.

It wasn't perfect but it was sure as hell catchable.

It was more than catchable Wade fucking sucks. But it was one of the few good throws he had in that game, and there were many times when he had plenty of time to throw the ball but instead ran toward the sideline and threw it away, or just threw a bad pass completely.

[DeezNutz]

No doubt he has been rattled and looked bad at times but benching him right now serves no purpose.

If he plays like ass the rest of the season there is a better chance they try to address the position in the offseason.

I agree with all of this. See two posts before yours.

I have repeatedly said that I would cut bait with Croyle, simply b/c he's as physically capable of playing in the league as I am--not at all.

[notorious]

No doubt he has been rattled and looked bad at times but benching him right now serves no purpose.

If he plays like ass the rest of the season there is a better chance they try to address the position in the offseason.

Excellent point.


If he blunders the rest of this season, it will give Haley a lot better chance of actually having a QB competition next offseason, instead of the bull-shit this past offseason.

Let's just hope that Pioli doesn't get in the way........:(

[Marcellus]

As has his offensive line, right? And his receivers are always open, right?

His receivers have hurt him worse than the line the last few.

Wade dropped a sure TD bomb, 7 pts.

Long dropped a TD ended up with a FG - 4pts (hit him in the chest)

Wade dropped a 3rd down conversion - pts? who knows. Hot him in the chest.

That's off the top of my head. Those 11 pts were early in the game as well. No telling how it could have impacted the game.

[DeezNutz]

As has his offensive line, right? And his receivers are always open, right?

Other teams' offensive lines are MUCH better and the other teams' receivers are ALWAYS open.

Look, I want Cassel to be good, too. Honestly. But he sucks. And I'm not going to pretend that everything we see really isn't happening.

[DaKernal]

I understand what all you guys are saying, it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to bench him the rest of the season, but does anyone really think he's gonna show us something that he hasn't all year? If I was Haley it wouldn't matter to me how he plays the rest of the season. I would already be getting ready for a competition this offseason.

[Marcellus]

Other teams' offensive lines are MUCH better and the other teams' receivers are ALWAYS open.

Look, I want Cassel to be good, too. Honestly. But he sucks. And I'm not going to pretend that everything we see really isn't happening.

My biggest concern is that he does seem to be going backwards at times (not just in the pocket).

He is getting discouraged when balls are dropped etc...rather than just trucking on. That is a concern.

[DeezNutz]

Play Cassel and don't give anyone else on the roster a second thought.

What Pioli and Haley need to be focusing some serious energy on is whether or not the true answer at QB happens to be in the '10 draft class.

There is absolutely no question that at least one very high-quality, Pro-Bowl level QB will come from this class. Happens damn near every year. And these fuckers need to find him. If that's in round 1, fine. Round 4? Fine. Whatever. Just find a sumbitch that can actually play at an elite level.

And keep fucking trying until that guy is located because we don't have him now.

[DeezNutz]

My biggest concern is that he does seem to be going backwards at times (not just in the pocket).

He is getting discouraged when balls are dropped etc...rather than just trucking on. That is a concern.

There have been little "uh, oh" moments with Cassel all year. I'm thinking, for example, about one of his first couple of games when Albert went to help him up and Cassel pushed him away.

It's one of those things in isolation that gives one pause but can be explained away. But this has become a bit of a recurring theme with him.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think he's a wimp. Dude plays courageously, but I sure as hell don't think he's a leader. Far from it, actually.

[Hammock Parties]

There is absolutely no question that at least one very high-quality, Pro-Bowl level QB will come from this class. Happens damn near every year. And these fuckers need to find him. If that's in round 1, fine. Round 4? Fine. Whatever. Just find a sumbitch that can actually play at an elite level.


This.

As far as I'm concerned Pioli and Haley need to start fucking NAILING personnel decisions from here on out.

A high failure rate cannot be tolerated any longer. Doesn't matter if it's "hard" to find a particular position, like quarterback.

Fucking do what you're paid to do.

[DaKernal]

What Pioli and Haley need to be focusing some serious energy on is whether or not the true answer at QB happens to be in the '10 draft class.

There is absolutely no question that at least one very high-quality, Pro-Bowl level QB will come from this class. Happens damn near every year. And these ****ers need to find him. If that's in round 1, fine. Round 4? Fine. Whatever. Just find a sumbitch that can actually play at an elite level.

And keep ****ing trying until that guy is located because we don't have him now.

This.

[DeezNutz]

This.

As far as I'm concerned Pioli and Haley need to start ****ing NAILING personnel decisions from here on out.

A high failure rate cannot be tolerated any longer. Doesn't matter if it's "hard" to find a particular position, like quarterback.

****ing do what you're paid to do.

It shouldn't be asking too much for an Executive of the fucking Century to make some high-quality selections in the draft.

[BigChiefFan]

Play Cassel and don't give anyone else on the roster a second thought.

What Pioli and Haley need to be focusing some serious energy on is whether or not the true answer at QB happens to be in the '10 draft class.

There is absolutely no question that at least one very high-quality, Pro-Bowl level QB will come from this class. Happens damn near every year. And these ****ers need to find him. If that's in round 1, fine. Round 4? Fine. Whatever. Just find a sumbitch that can actually play at an elite level.

And keep ****ing trying until that guy is located because we don't have him now.
I keep thinking Sam Bradford is that QB. His accuracy is amazing, IMO and has an NFL pedigree for a father, so I'm sure he's been coached up to some of the intricacies of the pro game. He'd be a great fit to ride the pine for a year and hopefully give us our QBOTF. Depending on his combine, he may be had in the 2nd round possible-probably not, but possible. If not, I'd seriously consider him in the top 10 if his workouts are impressive. I see a young Montana in him for some reason.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Wait...are we really talking about drafting a QB early? Really? Like that will really happen?

[DeezNutz]

I keep thinking Sam Bradford is that QB. His accuracy is amazing, IMO and has an NFL pedigree for a father, so I'm sure he's been coached up to some of the intricacies of the pro game. He'd be a great fit to ride the pine for a year and hopefully give us our QBOTF. Depending on his combine, he may be had in the 2nd round possible-probably not, but possible. If not, I'd seriously consider him in the top 10 if his workouts are impressive. I see a young Montana in him for some reason.

He needs to get substantially bigger to survive in the NFL. The hit he took against BYU really wasn't out of the ordinary. We're talking Croyle type stuff here.

If one were supremely convinced he could put on another 15-20 pounds of muscle mass, I'd be willing to get on board, with caution b/c of the difficulty of transitioning from the spread.

Wait...are we really talking about drafting a QB early? Really? Like that will really happen?

Yes, because at some point we'd like to have an elite-level QB, understanding full well that this idea is foreign to those who work at 1 Arrowhead.

[DaKernal]

Wait...are we really talking about drafting a QB early? Really? Like that will really happen?

It has to happen at some point. If not this year, then 2011.

[BigChiefFan]

He needs to get substantially bigger to survive in the NFL. The hit he took against BYU really wasn't out of the ordinary. We're talking Croyle type stuff here.

If one were supremely convinced he could put on another 15-20 pounds of muscle mass, I'd be willing to get on board, with caution b/c of the difficulty of transitioning from the spread.



Yes, because at some point we'd like to have an elite-level QB, understanding full well that this idea is foreign to those who work at 1 Arrowhead.He's the exact same as Jimmy Clausen...223 lbs. and he's an inch taller at 6'4". His accuracy is not to be ignored, IMO. It's a shame he got injured, but you can see how much of a difference he made to OU when he went out. I still think Cassel has a chance to be QB of the Chiefs for the nextf ew years, but it would be wise to have someone with upside waiting in the wings. If QB is BAA, when we pick, I think we have to seriously consider it, regardless of Cassel's status. I want LONG-TERM SUCCESS.

[DaKernal]

He's the exact same as Jimmy Clausen...223 lbs. and he's an inch taller at 6'4". His accuracy is not to be ignored, IMO. It's a shame he got injured, but you can see how much of a difference he made to OU when he went out. I still think Cassel has a chance to be QB of the Chiefs for the nextf ew years, but it would be wise to have someone with upside waiting in the wings. If QB is BAA, when we pick, I think we have to seriously consider it, regardless of Cassel's status. I want LONG-TERM SUCCESS.

Yes, we need to get someone else in there. Even if Cassel ends up being a decent QB he's gonna be 30 something by the time we're contending for the playoffs.

[blazzin311]

...about Matt Cassel. Some may say we already know a lot. I think the jury is partially out. When a guy gets benched and is a winner, he'll either come out breathing fire or he will wilt. I've seen it over and over. We don't have to win those games per say, but Cassel has to play his best games IMO. Not to mention we have some crappy teams coming up in Buffalo and Cleveland. I don't know that we need to draft a QB if he sucks it up, but I do believe we would really need to look at bringing in a solid vet to push him. I'm not sure who because I haven't really looked yet.

Cassel has shown in some games (Pitt game, 4th quarter Jags game) that he has the moxie at times, but it's just not consistent. IMO he needs to cement his status as STARTING QB for next season with this last quarter of the season. If he's great for 3 games, I'll take that. But IMO it's a minimum of 3 games where he plays his nuts off. If he doesn't come out breathing fire after getting benched, he's not our guy IMO. Again, JMO.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying here. However the problem lies in exactly what you just said (in bold). Frankly I don't think he's going to be consistent until he has a consistent online giving him consistently GOOD NFL CALIBER PROTECTION, consistent WRs, a consistent RB, TE, and might as well add a consistent offensive coordinator as well. Cassel will not get much better with this team until some of these things are fixed. Fixing the defense couldn't hurt as well. So I'm sorry to have to tell you your going to have to wait until at least next season after some things are done being addressed/ or not addressed (I don't know with this team) in the offseason. Only time will tell for sure but next season is the earliest he's going to perform very good with this team if at all. He's performed about as well as one could really expect him to this season given the circumstances I think. That's not to say that there isn't plenty of room for improvement, cause there certainly is. It just means he's not going to improve much more this season until things are fixed.

[Hammock Parties]

You do realize, of course, that the pass protection has improved noticeably since the beginning of the season?

Why not Cassel?

[MoreLemonPledge]

You do realize, of course, that the pass protection has improved noticeably since the beginning of the season?

Why not Cassel?

Because his receivers haven't. Because his defense hasn't and he's constantly playing from behind. This team's problems don't fall squarely on Cassel's shoulders.

[Hammock Parties]

Because his receivers haven't.

This is the only legit part of your post. Blaming Cassel's struggles on the defense is ludicrous.

His receivers HAVE improved. We brought in Chambers, Long and Pope. How is that not better than Bradley, Engram and Ryan?

Cassel's play is trending downward, anyway. Saying we can't expect much improvement is silly, if you ask me, but he's not even coming close. He's going to finish up the year rating in the 60s if he keeps this up.

[blazzin311]

You do realize, of course, that the pass protection has improved noticeably since the beginning of the season?

Why not Cassel?

Still not consistent. He's still having to run for his fricken life back there. Maybe not every time he drops back, but more than several times a game I'd say. So as I said, until the protection is consistently good, he's not going to get any better. Also I do agree. The oline has gotten a little bit better as the season has progressed. Emphasis on "a little bit better". Let's not get it twisted. The oline is still complete dogshit.


Because his receivers haven't. Because his defense hasn't and he's constantly playing from behind. This team's problems don't fall squarely on Cassel's shoulders.

Exactly as I was trying to express in one of my previous posts. Maybe not in these exact words but still. I don't however think the defense is Matt Cassel's main problem though. It would be nice if however when the Chiefs manage to get a lead which mind you is a rare occasion these days the defense could keep it. At least this way Cassel wouldn't have to lead the Chiefs from behind all the time it seems to win a game. You have to admit it does happen far to often, that the Chiefs score on Offense finally to take the lead in a game only to give the lead right back to the opposition a possession or two later.

[Hammock Parties]

Still not consistent. He's still having to run for his fricken life back there. Maybe not every time he drops back, but more than several times a game I'd say. So as I said, until the protection is consistently good, he's not going to get any better. Also I do agree. The oline has gotten a little bit better as the season has progressed. Emphasis on "a little bit better". Let's not get it twisted. The oline is still complete dogshit.


I don't think you know what the hell you're watching. Cassel had plenty of time against the Broncos. A few times the protection broke down or the Broncos brought more men than KC had blocking. But by and large, the protection was no worse than any other quarterback enjoys on, say, an average Sunday.

Certainly calling it "dogshit" is erroneous.

[Tribal Warfare]

Did you see how many passes his receivers dropped?


At the same time some of those balls were very close to be intercepted too.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Cassel is not the problem on this team, nor will he ever be the biggest strength.

Let me first say, I agree with the OP - though I'm looking specifically at this game. If he lays an egg against Buffalo after getting benched...

Anyway, regarding the bolded part of the MLP quote:

If so, then he's not a franchise QB.

[OnTheWarpath15]

This is how I am feeling. That Cassel even with great players around him, might only be average.

Mind you, my position with every coach and player is to give them a chance. Yes, we're not through his first season, but we also aren't talking about a rookie. He basically played every game for the Pats last year. My point is, the guy just got benched. If he doesn't come out playing his balls off, we need to bring in someone who can at least challenge him for the starting spot. If we don't do that, we are setting ourselves up for failure next season. EVERYONE should always have a guy behind them pushing them until it is clear they are THE guy. Cassel has not earned that YET. He CAN earn it over the next 4 games IMO.

Great post.

[the Talking Can]

This roster will mail these 4 games in.

and if that is true, and may well be...what do you do?


can you bring back a staff that couldn't even motivate a roster to play 1 full season?


this thing is going shitty

[OnTheWarpath15]

and if that is true, and may well be...what do you do?


can you bring back a staff that couldn't even motivate a roster to play 1 full season?


this thing is going shitty

Nope, and as I just posted in another thread, I honestly think that if Haley doesn't win at least one more game, possibly two, he's going to get whacked.

[MahiMike]

This.


I still want to see Croyle though.



Croyle is so irrelevant, it's not even moot. The tribunal council has spoken.

[MahiMike]

and if that is true, and may well be...what do you do?


can you bring back a staff that couldn't even motivate a roster to play 1 full season?


this thing is going shitty

I know if I'm Haley, I show the guys that were laughing on the sideline during film review. Then I make them all play special teams in addition to defense.

[the Talking Can]

Nope, and as I just posted in another thread, I honestly think that if Haley doesn't win at least one more game, possible two, he's going to get whacked.


I think the odds almost zero that Pioli bails on him, he has the "rookie coach" card to play....


but all I want is someone who can turn this shit titanic around, wouldn't shed a tear if Pioli did wack him...


but it also speeds up the judgment process on Pioli himself...if his second coach doesn't show something fast then the spotlight is on Pioli after only 2 years...

at minimum we have to have an entirely new roster of assistants and coordinators, if they bring these people back then they aren't even serious about trying..

[DeezNutz]

but it also speeds up the judgment process on Pioli himself...if his second coach doesn't show something fast then the spotlight is on Pioli after only 2 years...

Exactly why it won't happen.

And, secretly, Haley is probably really regretting whacking Gailey. If Chan is still here, he's the easy goat for the lack of offensive productivity, thus buying Todd more time.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think the odds almost zero that Pioli bails on him, he has the "rookie coach" card to play....


but all I want is someone who can turn this shit titanic around, wouldn't shed a tear if Pioli did wack him...


but it also speeds up the judgment process on Pioli himself...if his second coach doesn't show something fast then the spotlight is on Pioli after only 2 years...

at minimum we have to have an entirely new roster of assistants and coordinators, if they bring these people back then they aren't even serious about trying..


IMO, there's much more than a zero percent chance, but we're in complete agreement otherwise.

The "late hire" excuse isn't going to hold water this time around. If Haley does stick around, they need to get him an OC, a new DC and several new position coaches - yes, Krumrie, I'm talking about YOU.

[CHIEFS58]

This.


I still want to see Croyle though.


I dont know if it was just me, but Croyle looked like a hell of alot better QB the few times he dropped back to pass. He looked more comfortable in the pocket, his throws were crisp, and appeared to have way more confidence than Cassel.

remember, Derek Anderson looked good coming off the bench in Cleveland, too. Its easy to appear confident when the starter played like ass that day. make him a starter and he'll crumble like Huard. its simple...we need an OC, new receivers, and an upgrade at O-line. the line has played better lately, but it still needs new personnel. only then will we be able to make unbiased opinions on cassel. i agree that he has been inconsistent, but these upgrades could allow him to flourish. if he doesnt, then its obvious he was a bad pickup.

[Tribal Warfare]

Croyle is so irrelevant, it's not even moot. The tribunal council has spoken.

We shall see, if the coaching staff didn't think much of him he'd either shipped off somewhere else(Thigpen), cut, or replaced with one of "their" guys in Matt Gutierrez playing 2nd on the depth chart with Croyle playing 3rd string.

[Chiefnj2]

Unfortunately, I think the team was doomed to failure from the start.

IMHO, a GM should hire a head coach he's comfortable with and then attempt to find and bring in the players that fit best with what the head coach wants. IMHO, you can get a good feel of a new head coach by looking at the coordinators and assistants that he surrounds himself with and see how they work together.

None of the above worked. It appears (and I realize this is all speculation) that the GM is forcing certain things on the head coach that the head coach isn't comfortable with. The head coach has bitten off more than he can chew. I think Cassel was forced on Haley. We know that Gailey was forced on Haley. Haley brought in a defensive coordinator whose strength does not appear to be the 34. Haley mistakenly thought he could do everything. The various pieces don't mesh with the system and the system is breaking down rather than being fixed. For some odd reason the most glaring weaknesses of the team were not addressed and in some cases didn't even attempt to be addressed in the offseason. As my pappy used to say "they are rowing the boat in opposite directions."

Does anyone really know what type of offense and defense the team eventually wants to play? They have no identity this season other than "we'd like to cut down on mistakes". We aren't striving to be the "Orange Crush", Purple People Eaters, Greatest Show on Turf, Big Blue Wrecking Crew, etc. We are the Kansas City "lets make fewer mistakes this week" Chiefs.

[MahiMike]

Well, all year long Haley has held Cassel back in the 1st 3 qtrs to keep the game safe. I would hope that he just lets him wing it for the rest of the year. Not saying to not have a balanced attack but let him take more chances. Act like we're in the playoffs and we MUST score and take chances. It'll tell us more about Cassel and our WR's.

[MahiMike]

Does anyone really know what type of offense and defense the team eventually wants to play? They have no identity this season other than "we'd like to cut down on mistakes". We aren't striving to be the "Orange Crush", Purple People Eaters, Greatest Show on Turf, Big Blue Wrecking Crew, etc. We are the Kansas City "lets make fewer mistakes this week" Chiefs.

Good point and I'm hoping that Pioli is smart enough to see that he needs to bring in the best players available in the draft FIRST (Suh) and THEN decide which scheme to play. I know the Jags struggled going to the 3-4 this year and recently decided to run a mix of the 2 because of personnel. Suddenly they started getting more pressure on the QB.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Unfortunately, I think the team was doomed to failure from the start.

IMHO, a GM should hire a head coach he's comfortable with and then attempt to find and bring in the players that fit best with what the head coach wants. IMHO, you can get a good feel of a new head coach by looking at the coordinators and assistants that he surrounds himself with and see how they work together.

None of the above worked. It appears (and I realize this is all speculation) that the GM is forcing certain things on the head coach that the head coach isn't comfortable with. The head coach has bitten off more than he can chew. I think Cassel was forced on Haley. We know that Gailey was forced on Haley. Haley brought in a defensive coordinator whose strength does not appear to be the 34. Haley mistakenly thought he could do everything. The various pieces don't mesh with the system and the system is breaking down rather than being fixed. For some odd reason the most glaring weaknesses of the team were not addressed and in some cases didn't even attempt to be addressed in the offseason. As my pappy used to say "they are rowing the boat in opposite directions."

Does anyone really know what type of offense and defense the team eventually wants to play? They have no identity this season other than "we'd like to cut down on mistakes". We aren't striving to be the "Orange Crush", Purple People Eaters, Greatest Show on Turf, Big Blue Wrecking Crew, etc. We are the Kansas City "lets make fewer mistakes this week" Chiefs.

Great post.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Good point and I'm hoping that Pioli is smart enough to see that he needs to bring in the best players available in the draft FIRST (Suh) and THEN decide which scheme to play. I know the Jags struggled going to the 3-4 this year and recently decided to run a mix of the 2 because of personnel. Suddenly they started getting more pressure on the QB.

Not gonna happen, unfortunately.

Pioli just spent his first two draft picks on guys that fit a 3-4 defense, and has spent this entire season trying to fir guys like Dorsey and Hali into that system.

No way in hell he admits his mistake and starts over.

[the Talking Can]

Unfortunately, I think the team was doomed to failure from the start.

IMHO, a GM should hire a head coach he's comfortable with and then attempt to find and bring in the players that fit best with what the head coach wants. IMHO, you can get a good feel of a new head coach by looking at the coordinators and assistants that he surrounds himself with and see how they work together.

None of the above worked. It appears (and I realize this is all speculation) that the GM is forcing certain things on the head coach that the head coach isn't comfortable with. The head coach has bitten off more than he can chew. I think Cassel was forced on Haley. We know that Gailey was forced on Haley. Haley brought in a defensive coordinator whose strength does not appear to be the 34. Haley mistakenly thought he could do everything. The various pieces don't mesh with the system and the system is breaking down rather than being fixed. For some odd reason the most glaring weaknesses of the team were not addressed and in some cases didn't even attempt to be addressed in the offseason. As my pappy used to say "they are rowing the boat in opposite directions."

Does anyone really know what type of offense and defense the team eventually wants to play? They have no identity this season other than "we'd like to cut down on mistakes". We aren't striving to be the "Orange Crush", Purple People Eaters, Greatest Show on Turf, Big Blue Wrecking Crew, etc. We are the Kansas City "lets make fewer mistakes this week" Chiefs.

i think there is a definite disconnect b/w Haley and Cassel....which is fubar for a team

[OnTheWarpath15]

i think there is a definite disconnect b/w Haley and Cassel....which is fubar for a team

Which is one of the reasons I can see him getting whacked.

I really think that Pioli wanted McDaniels, and when that didn't happen, he focused on the Shanahan/Cowher types that were out there.

Let's face it - Haley was really all that was left.

[Chiefnj2]

At the end of the day, the team rewarded Cassel financially but screwed him over, hard, every way possible - not fixing the OL, rotating WR's, getting rid of the only reliable pass catcher, rotating WR depth chart, running game mess, poor play calling setting up 3rd and long, poor running game, no QB coach, etc.

I hold out some hope for Cassel because of those things and because: (1) I remember Trent's first year in KC and how everyone thought he sucked, (2) Cassel was accurate with short and medium routes last year, (3) Cassel has proven to be tough and seems have good leadership qualities.

[DeezNutz]

At the end of the day, the team rewarded Cassel financially but screwed him over, hard, every way possible - not fixing the OL, rotating WR's, getting rid of the only reliable pass catcher, rotating WR depth chart, running game mess, poor play calling setting up 3rd and long, poor running game, no QB coach, etc.

I hold out some hope for Cassel because of those things and because: (1) I remember Trent's first year in KC and how everyone thought he sucked, (2) Cassel was accurate with short and medium routes last year, (3) Cassel has proven to be tough and seems have good leadership qualities.

These are, largely, fair points. I disagree with the bolded, however.

[Chiefnj2]

These are, largely, fair points. I disagree with the bolded, however.

Why?

[DeezNutz]

Why?

Various little things: Pushing o-linemen away, body language after drops, etc.

In isolation, understandable. But their totality and recurring nature is not acceptable from the QB--the assumed leader of the team.

When posters have commented upon these things this season, the counter-argument has often been, "I'd be pissed, too."

And, yes, I understand that position. But that's not acceptable for "the" position in the ultimate team game. And the P. Manning allusions hold no water. When we get a QB who is an automatic first-ballot HOF, he gets to act a bit differently from the average bear.

[Chiefnj2]

Various little things: Pushing o-linemen away, body language after drops, etc.

In isolation, understandable. But their totality and recurring nature is not acceptable from the QB--the assumed leader of the team.

When posters have commented upon these things this season, the counter-argument has often been, "I'd be pissed, too."

And, yes, I understand that position. But that's not acceptable for "the" position in the ultimate team game. And the P. Manning allusions hold no water. When we get a QB who is an automatic first-ballot HOF, he gets to act a bit differently from the average bear.

I hate to break it to you, but every single QB in the league reacts when a WR drops an easy ball.

[milkman]

I never said he didn't stink it up. Though when he did throw the ball decent he had at least 100 yards in dropped passes including 2 TD's and a sure 3rd down conversion.

And I'm not talking about the swing passes he overthrew.

If you think Bobby Wade shouldn't have caught that sure long TD pass you expect too much of your QB and not enough of your receivers.

It wasn't perfect but it was sure as hell catchable.

Bobby Wade could have caught that ball, if he had extended himself and used both hands.

He would have likely lost his balance and fallen to the turf to make that catch, and would have then likely been caught up to before he had the time to get up and run it in for a TD.

[milkman]

As has his offensive line, right? And his receivers are always open, right?

The O-Line has been bad, no question.

However, Cassel has made them look worse that they actually have been with poor pocket awareness and happy feet.

There are many times in which all he needed to do was sidestep the pressure coming up the middle, but he runs out of the pocket and runs himself right into the sack.

The Dumerville sack in this last game is a clear example of that.

[Marcellus]

Bobby Wade could have caught that ball, if he had extended himself and used both hands.

He would have likely lost his balance and fallen to the turf to make that catch, and would have then likely been caught up to before he had the time to get up and run it in for a TD.

I simply disagree, I dont even think Wade was running at full effort before the ball was thrown.

Though I do agree he should have at least made an attempt to use both hands or extend himself rather than the joke of an effort he did put forth.

There is a reason Wade and even Chambers were available for next to nothing and had been cut previously.

[Ralphy Boy]

No, not exactly. Mainly for the sake of watching Chiefs football. He looks to be a way more competent QB than Cassel, and the one game he started was probably the best our offense has looked for an entire game all season.

You do realize that Brodie only completed 42.9% of his passes on Sunday right? Threw 14 passes for a whopping 50 yards and ended up with a 52.7 QB rating. Brodie has horrible pocket awareness.

Mike Mayock was talking about Cassel in the Pittsburgh game the other night on Playbook and said don't be too quick to judge him because he has no help but we all saw how he performed last year with a better supporting cast.

[milkman]

Here's a telling stat for people to chew on.

Tom Brady in 2007 was sacked 21 times.
This year he has been sacked 15 times so far.

Matt Cassel in '08 was sacked 47 times.

That perfectly illustrates my point that Cassel makes an O-Line look worse than it actually is.

[Brock]

You do realize that Brodie only completed 42.9% of his passes on Sunday right? Threw 14 passes for a whopping 50 yards and ended up with a 52.7 QB rating. Brodie has horrible pocket awareness.

How did that compare to Cassel?

[OnTheWarpath15]

I simply disagree, I dont even think Wade was running at full effort before the ball was thrown.

Unless you were at the stadium with a high vantage point, and actually keying on Wade instead of the ball as most people do, your claim is nothing more than a WAG.

[The Franchise]

Here's a telling stat for people to chew on.

Tom Brady in 2007 was sacked 21 times.
This year he has been sacked 15 times so far.

Matt Cassel in '08 was sacked 47 times.

That perfectly illustrates my point that Cassel makes an O-Line look worse than it actually is.

He fucking holds the ball forever. That's his damn problem.

[OnTheWarpath15]

He fucking holds the ball forever. That's his damn problem.

Correction:

That's ONE of his problems.

Right now, it's probably the most glaring, with accuracy being a damn close runner up.

[DeezNutz]

I hate to break it to you, but every single QB in the league reacts when a WR drops an easy ball.

And they push o-linemen away, too. I get it.

Cassel is not a leader.

[Ralphy Boy]

What more is there to evaluate? He's played like shit all ****ing year. Even his best game would be just an average game for an average QB. With the exception of a handful of drives this season he has played like complete ass and has shown NO flashes of being a good QB.

You gotta be kidding me.

You could make the argument that the real comparison for Cassel, based on this season, is to Stafford & Sanchez and a lesser extent Josh Freeman, because they were the alternatives. All situations are similar, new coaching staff, going to bad teams and because all 3 played their nuts off the prior year and it was last years play that got them the jobs they have now. Yeah Cassel's was in the NFL, so he did it against better competition but had a lot better supporting cast.

Cassel is ranked # 27 with a 72.3 QB Rating on the season and a 53.9 % completion %.
Freeman = 28 with a 64.1 QB rating and a 54.4% completion %
Sanchez = 29 with a 63.7 QB rating and a 53.2% completion %
Stafford = 31 with a 61.0 QB rating and a 53.3% completion %

Yes I realize Cassel was in this offense last season and that should help. He's also not throwing to Calvin Johnson and before you say it, Dwayne Bowe is nowhere near as good as CJ.
He's also not playing on a Jets team that is leading the league in rushing.

[milkman]

You gotta be kidding me.

You could make the argument that the real comparison for Cassel, based on this season, is to Stafford & Sanchez and a lesser extent Josh Freeman, because they were the alternatives. All situations are similar, new coaching staff, going to bad teams and because all 3 played their nuts off the prior year and it was last years play that got them the jobs they have now. Yeah Cassel's was in the NFL, so he did it against better competition but had a lot better supporting cast.

Cassel is ranked # 27 with a 72.3 QB Rating on the season and a 53.9 % completion %.
Freeman = 28 with a 64.1 QB rating and a 54.4% completion %
Sanchez = 29 with a 63.7 QB rating and a 53.2% completion %
Stafford = 31 with a 61.0 QB rating and a 53.3% completion %

Yes I realize Cassel was in this offense last season and that should help. He's also not throwing to Calvin Johnson and before you say it, Dwayne Bowe is nowhere near as good as CJ.
He's also not playing on a Jets team that is leading the league in rushing.

The biggest thing you're forgetting to mention is that Cassel had 4 years to learn about the NFL.

Want to compare him to someone, try Aaron Rogers.

Both came into the league in '05, both sat behind and learned from future Hof locks, both got their chance in '08, both have a tendency to hold the ball too long, both are getting pisspounded because of that tendency.

The one real difference.

One, in spite of that last fact, still looks like a legitimate NFL QB.

[Red Brooklyn]

Unfortunately, I think the team was doomed to failure from the start.

IMHO, a GM should hire a head coach he's comfortable with and then attempt to find and bring in the players that fit best with what the head coach wants. IMHO, you can get a good feel of a new head coach by looking at the coordinators and assistants that he surrounds himself with and see how they work together.

None of the above worked. It appears (and I realize this is all speculation) that the GM is forcing certain things on the head coach that the head coach isn't comfortable with. The head coach has bitten off more than he can chew. I think Cassel was forced on Haley. We know that Gailey was forced on Haley. Haley brought in a defensive coordinator whose strength does not appear to be the 34. Haley mistakenly thought he could do everything. The various pieces don't mesh with the system and the system is breaking down rather than being fixed. For some odd reason the most glaring weaknesses of the team were not addressed and in some cases didn't even attempt to be addressed in the offseason. As my pappy used to say "they are rowing the boat in opposite directions."

Does anyone really know what type of offense and defense the team eventually wants to play? They have no identity this season other than "we'd like to cut down on mistakes". We aren't striving to be the "Orange Crush", Purple People Eaters, Greatest Show on Turf, Big Blue Wrecking Crew, etc. We are the Kansas City "lets make fewer mistakes this week" Chiefs.

:clap:

Great post. I believe you've hit the nail right on the head. These problems far outway any issue I have with Cassel at this point.

It's a tired montra, I know, but it's just so difficult to fairly evaluate Cassel. He's not the QBOTF that the higher ups tried to sell, but it's too early to write him off as a complete failure. He gets an incomplete for the season and is on probation for the next.

[Marcellus]

The biggest thing you're forgetting to mention is that Cassel had 4 years to learn about the NFL.

Want to compare him to someone, try Aaron Rogers.

Both came into the league in '05, both sat behind and learned from future Hof locks, both got their chance in '08, both have a tendency to hold the ball too long, both are getting pisspounded because of that tendency.

The one real difference.

One, in spite of that last fact, still looks like a legitimate NFL QB.

Forgetting that one of them was a 1st round draft pick and the other was a 6th due to college experience and playing time?

[Red Brooklyn]

The biggest thing you're forgetting to mention is that Cassel had 4 years to learn about the NFL.

Want to compare him to someone, try Aaron Rogers.

Both came into the league in '05, both sat behind and learned from future Hof locks, both got their chance in '08, both have a tendency to hold the ball too long, both are getting pisspounded because of that tendency.

The one real difference.

One, in spite of that last fact, still looks like a legitimate NFL QB.
But doesn't some of that have to do with the supporting cast?

I haven't watched the Packers much this season so... I really don't know where they're at, how they play, their talent level at WR and Oline, etc... And I'm not trying to contrary, I'm seriously asking this question.

Would Rogers look more like Cassel if he played for this Chief's team instead of the Pack?

[The Franchise]

Forgetting that one of them was a 1st round draft pick and the other was a 6th due to college experience and playing time?

There is always going to be an excuse for why Cassel plays poorly....isn't there?

[milkman]

Forgetting that one of them was a 1st round draft pick and the other was a 6th due to college experience and playing time?

Matt Cassel had 4 years practice in the pro set in college, while Rogers was a Tedford coached QB.

They both came into the league needing to learn nearly the same amount about playing the QB position in the NFL.

[milkman]

But doesn't some of that have to do with the supporting cast?

I haven't watched the Packers much this season so... I really don't know where they're at, how they play, their talent level at WR and Oline, etc... And I'm not trying to contrary, I'm seriously asking this question.

Would Rogers look more like Cassel if he played for this Chief's team instead of the Pack?

Did you see how bad that supporting cast looked in the preseason when Brian Brohm got to play with them?

[Fish]

But doesn't some of that have to do with the supporting cast?

I haven't watched the Packers much this season so... I really don't know where they're at, how they play, their talent level at WR and Oline, etc... And I'm not trying to contrary, I'm seriously asking this question.

Would Rogers look more like Cassel if he played for this Chief's team instead of the Pack?

If you don't know the Packers' talent level at WR off the top of your head, that should give you an idea of their talent level.....

[Chiefnj2]

The one real difference between Cassel and Rodgers is that Rodgers is playing well and Cassel isn't?

Rodgers hasn't had the same head coach and OC for years? Was the teams starting RB traded midway through the season? Has he had the same WR's all year? Did they install a brand new offense one week before the season started? Did Donald Driver get suspended for 4 games? Has Jennings been on the team for more than 3 weeks?

[DeezNutz]

I'd take Jennings and Driver over Bowe and Chambers because of the former pair's ability to stretch the field.

But it's not like we're talking about Moss and Welker.

Wait...now that's somewhat ironic...

[milkman]

The one real difference between Cassel and Rodgers is that Rodgers is playing well and Cassel isn't?

Rodgers hasn't had the same head coach and OC for years? Was the teams starting RB traded midway through the season? Has he had the same WR's all year? Did they install a brand new offense one week before the season started? Did Donald Driver get suspended for 4 games? Has Jennings been on the team for more than 3 weeks?

In short, it doesn't matter who we compare him to, Cassel is always going to have a built in excuse?

[FAX]

Unless you were at the stadium with a high vantage point, and actually keying on Wade instead of the ball as most people do, your claim is nothing more than a WAG.

His claim is a Watershed Advisory Group?

Well, I suppose it make sense that they're following Wade's career.

FAX

[Marcellus]

There is always going to be an excuse for why Cassel plays poorly....isn't there?

I didn't say it was an excuse for him playing poorly. Where did I say that? I was simply countering the argument that Rogers is who he should be compared to and simply put, the expectations for 7th round draft picks is different than first round draft picks. Who do you think was projected to be a better QB?


Matt Cassel had 4 years practice in the pro set in college, while Rogers was a Tedford coached QB.

They both came into the league needing to learn nearly the same amount about playing the QB position in the NFL.

That's BS. So why was one a 1st round draft pick and the other a 7th? Cassel was 25 picks from being MR. Irrelevant, Rogers was a 1st rounder FFS.
Because one was and is a better Qb than the other and was more prepared for the NFL.

And for the record, Green Bay had no clue Rogers was going to sit for 4 years, the only reason the drafted him was Favre said he was playing one more year. That's why they kept getting pissed when Favre kept coming back and they finally told him to F' off.

[Chiefnj2]

In short, it doesn't matter who we compare him to, Cassel is always going to have a built in excuse?

Are those excuses or facts?

Three teams fired their OC's a week before the season started. How are those other 2 teams doing offensively this year?

[milkman]

That's BS. So why was one a 1st round draft pick and the other a 7th? Cassel was 25 picks from being MR. Irrelevant, Rogers was a 1st rounder FFS.
Because one was and is a better Qb than the other and was more prepared for the NFL.

And for the record, Green Bay had no clue Rogers was going to sit for 4 years, the only reason the drafted him was Favre said he was playing one more year. That's why they kept getting pissed when Favre kept coming back and they finally told him to F' off.

Expectation and reality are two entirely different things.

See Ryan Leaf and Tom Brady.

[Red Brooklyn]

If you don't know the Packers' talent level at WR off the top of your head, that should give you an idea of their talent level.....
ROFL

Point taken.

In short, it doesn't matter who we compare him to, Cassel is always going to have a built in excuse?
That's completely valid. I totally see what you mean.

But I do think the externals make a sizable impact. Would Rogers perform at a higher level than Cassel if he were our starting QB and dealing with all the same externals? Like I said, I haven't watched Rogers much this season, so I can't possibly answer that question. I leave that to those who know and watch more than I.

And I'm not suggesting that Cassel is some wunderkind being crippled completely by a coach, GM and supporting cast. Far from. Cassel has been lackluster. At best I hope he can be Trent Green Jr. He's not performing at that level this season, but there have been too many X factors to lay that completely on him, IMO.

[Marcellus]

Expectation and reality are two entirely different things.

See Ryan Leaf and Tom Brady.

Um yes there are exceptions, thats not the rule and your claim Rogers and Cassel were on equal footing coming into the league is simply hyperbole.

[milkman]

ROFL

Point taken.


That's completely valid. I totally see what you mean.

But I do think the externals make a sizable impact. Would Rogers perform at a higher level than Cassel if he were our starting QB and dealing with all the same externals? Like I said, I haven't watched Rogers much this season, so I can't possibly answer that question. I leave that to those who know and watch more than I.

And I'm not suggesting that Cassel is some wunderkind being crippled completely by a coach, GM and supporting cast. Far from. Cassel has been lackluster. At best I hope he can be Trent Green Jr. He's not performing at that level this season, but there have been too many X factors to lay that completely on him, IMO.

I think the point has validity.

However, when you watch both, it's clear that Aaron is simply a more talented, more gritty, and more cerebral than Cassel.

Some of Cassel's problems can be expalined by the talent issues on this team, but some of the problems are easily Cassel's shortcomings, most notably his lack of pocket awareness.

[Marcellus]

In short, it doesn't matter who we compare him to, Cassel is always going to have a built in excuse?

Always? No, some leeway for this disaster of a season? Yes.

I have already stated if he just sucks it up the last 4 games we need to look into an alternative this offseason.

[milkman]

Um yes there are exceptions, thats not the rule and your claim Rogers and Cassel were on equal footing coming into the league is simply hyperbole.

No, I'm saying that after 3 years on the bench in the NFL, they were on equal footing.

I'm saying that, while Rogers had more college game experience, he had to learn the proper mechanics of playing the position in the NFL, while Cassel practiced those mechanics for four years at USC.

[DaneMcCloud]

And I'm not suggesting that Cassel is some wunderkind being crippled completely by a coach, GM and supporting cast. Far from. Cassel has been lackluster. At best I hope he can be Trent Green Jr. He's not performing at that level this season, but there have been too many X factors to lay that completely on him, IMO.

The problem with Cassel is that he doesn't look like he's above all the other sub-par players. He appears to be a sub-par player.

When Trent Green QB'd the 2001 Chiefs, he had a rough first season. But, he also looked like he belonged on the same stage at times with Gonzalez and Holmes. It appeared that if his receivers were better, his interceptions would decrease and the offense would be outstanding.

I don't get that from Cassel. I wish I did, but I'm just not seeing it at this point.

[Marcellus]

The problem with Cassel is that he doesn't look like he's above all the other sub-par players. He appears to be a sub-par player.

When Trent Green QB'd the 2001 Chiefs, he had a rough first season. But, he also looked like he belonged on the same stage at times with Gonzalez and Holmes. It appeared that if his receivers were better, his interceptions would decrease and the offense would be outstanding.

I don't get that from Cassel. I wish I did, but I'm just not seeing it at this point.

I agree with this but take into account he HAD Gonzalez and Holmes as well as a well seasoned o-coordinator with a plan in place the day they took over.

This whole offseason has been a fucking disaster and I bet we have a new offensive and defensive coordinator next year.

[Red Brooklyn]

I think the point has validity.

However, when you watch both, it's clear that Aaron is simply a more talented, more gritty, and more cerebral than Cassel.

Some of Cassel's problems can be expalined by the talent issues on this team, but some of the problems are easily Cassel's shortcomings, most notably his lack of pocket awareness.
We're definately on the same page here. This is probably the thing that concerns me most about Cassel.

I just hate that when he is able to execute effectively his receivers forget how to catch a ball or run a route. It's so frustrating.

[Red Brooklyn]

I agree with this but take into account he HAD Gonzalez and Holmes as well as a well seasoned o-coordinator with a plan in place the day they took over.
And Roaf. And Shields. And a few competent WRs who didn't have chronic dropping problems.

But, Dane, I see what you mean. I really do. I'm holding out another season before I write Cassel off. It's just the stupid optimist in me. At this point he's not TG Jr... but he could be, I think. When he's at his best (which, I admit is few and far between this season) I can see it.

The question is whether or not he has the ability to rise above his obstacles. I want him to, I really, really want him to... but...

We'll just have to wait and see.

[ChiefsCountry]

Its kind of sad that when Cassel was traded here, everybody said he was the next Len Dawson - now we are hoping he is Trent Green at his best. That should tell you alot about him.

[Chiefnj2]

Its kind of sad that when Cassel was traded here, everybody said he was the next Len Dawson - now we are hoping he is Trent Green at his best. That should tell you alot about him.

It would suck to have a QB that is part of a top 5 offense for the next 4 years.

[milkman]

And Roaf. And Shields. And a few competent WRs who didn't have chronic dropping problems.

But, Dane, I see what you mean. I really do. I'm holding out another season before I write Cassel off. It's just the stupid optimist in me. At this point he's not TG Jr... but he could be, I think. When he's at his best (which, I admit is few and far between this season) I can see it.

The question is whether or not he has the ability to rise above his obstacles. I want him to, I really, really want him to... but...

We'll just have to wait and see.

Raof wasn't a Chief in Green's first year in KC.

[milkman]

It would suck to have a QB that is part of a top 5 offense for the next 4 years.

Yeah, it would.

All we have to do is build one of the best O-Lines in NFL history again.

[TRR]

I haven't read the entire thread...However I don't think these next four games will tell us any more about Cassel and Co than we already know.

Cassel has went through too much change to really get a good read on him this season. All this year did was give him some experience under his belt. Other than that...it's really a wash. You can't have a new QB (inexperienced as he is) go through 2 O-Coordinators, a multitude of different WR's and TE's nearly every week, and a O Line that wouldn't start for some college teams, and expect to know what Cassel is or can become.

Give Cassel a consistent O-Line and WR Corp throughout the entire offseason to work with, and a consistent playbook to get familiar with throughout the entire offseason...then I will make a judgement on him 8-10 games into next season. Until then, he as well as this team is what it is.

[DaneMcCloud]

I agree with this but take into account he HAD Gonzalez and Holmes as well as a well seasoned o-coordinator with a plan in place the day they took over.

This whole offseason has been a fucking disaster and I bet we have a new offensive and defensive coordinator next year.

I understand that but you can generally tell when a players is better than his surrounding cast. Matt Ryan at BC for example, Steve Young at TB, etc.

I'm not "writing him off" but unfortunately, I'm not seeing that with Cassel.

[FAX]

Hmmm.

I think that categorizing Cassel as "sub-par" is a bit of an overstatement. Clearly, the guy is suffering from Post Traumatic Sack Disorder. It's obvious that he's hearing footsteps and his propensity to hang onto the ball is detrimental to his game. Still, after what he's been through, I wouldn't blame him if he saw defensive ends running free in his sleep.

Unless he's ruined, though, he can become infinitely more comfortable in the pocket once he gets enough snaps behind an effective line. Plus, if we can snag a QB coach somewhere who knows what he's doing, his problem with taking sacks instead of throwing the ball away could also be easily resolved.

I guess I feel like the guy has sufficient skills and potential that he's worth the effort. I would love to see some real competition at that position next off-season, though. Either from a veteran or a draft pick. That, in addition to a dedicated, full-time OC, a QB coach, and a consistent WR corp could make a lot of difference in his game.

FAX

[ChiefsCountry]

It would suck to have a QB that is part of a top 5 offense for the next 4 years.

I would rather be 15 like we were with Montana and actually win playoff games.

[Chiefnj2]

I would rather be 15 like we were with Montana and actually win playoff games.

Because it was the offenses fault they couldn't force a single punt in the playoffs. Brilliant!!

[Chiefnj2]

Yeah, it would.

All we have to do is build one of the best O-Lines in NFL history again.

Last year you said Albert would be a pro bowl left tackle. KC is 1/5th of the way there.

[Baby Lee]

Yeah, it would.

All we have to do is build one of the best O-Lines in NFL history again.

Just pray that somewhere, a sly WR is boning an elite LT's wife.

[DeezNutz]

It would suck to have a QB that is part of a top 5 offense for the next 4 years.

Sure, that would be great. It would be even better if the QB was the primary reason why the offense was very effective.

[OnTheWarpath15]

There is always going to be an excuse for why Cassel plays poorly....isn't there?

You're just now figuring this out?

[Rasputin]

I would much rather see Croyle than Cassel. We have nothing to lose if Brodie plays a game for evaluation purposes that would make since. See if the team responds too. Cassel was given a premature contract that he didn't deserve. Croyle looked better on his drive down field than Cassel did all game. Croyle has a much better arm and touch of the football. Croyle has zip to the ball too. If Brodie fails then so what at least we would know who the better QB is and can still look toward the draft either way. If Brodie does better & looks better over a game than Cassel then he deserves another game to prove his worth. They shouldn't let Cassel feel comfortable that he is the guy I think that was a mistake from the beginning.

I can see us waisting Croyle as a tallented QB on the bench then next year he goes to another team and has success beyond any ones expectations and then comes back to burn us when he plays against us. yep thats what could happen.

[Hammock Parties]

There is always going to be an excuse for why Cassel plays poorly....isn't there?

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

[Tribal Warfare]

You're just now figuring this out?

of course he pisses sunshine and shits ice cream and rainbows

[MoreLemonPledge]

I would much rather see Croyle than Cassel. We have nothing to lose if Brodie plays a game for evaluation purposes that would make since. See if the team responds too. Cassel was given a premature contract that he didn't deserve. Croyle looked better on his drive down field than Cassel did all game. Croyle has a much better arm and touch of the football. Croyle has zip to the ball too. If Brodie fails then so what at least we would know who the better QB is and can still look toward the draft either way. If Brodie does better & looks better over a game than Cassel then he deserves another game to prove his worth. They shouldn't let Cassel feel comfortable that he is the guy I think that was a mistake from the beginning.

I can see us waisting Croyle as a tallented QB on the bench then next year he goes to another team and has success beyond any ones expectations and then comes back to burn us when he plays against us. yep thats what could happen.

And then he gets hurt. He's a good backup, nothing more. He can't take the week to week beatings.

[Rasputin]

And then he gets hurt. He's a good backup, nothing more. He can't take the week to week beatings.

I agree he "could" get hurt that is a big deal. However I still think Brodie can take a hit & dust himself off & survive a full season. He has taken big hits in games and got up from them too. I still like Brodie knowmatter what anybody else thinks of him injury prone or not. The O line defintly needs fixed for any QB to have great success anyways. It would still be interesting if Brodie played in any of our last four games and out shine Cassel that doesn't mean we would be stuck on Brodie either but show that we can do better than Cassel for our future.