Self finally ready to get serious

[Mr. Laz]

Posted on Fri, Dec. 25, 2009 11:03 PM
KU players get break from classes, but the real work begins now
By J. BRADY McCOLLOUGH
The Kansas City Star


<script language="Javascript"> function PopupPic(sPicURL, sHeight, sWidth) { window.open( "http://media.kansascity.com/static/popup.html?"+sPicURL, "", "resizable=1,HEIGHT=" +sHeight+ ",WIDTH=" +sWidth); } </script> <!-- photo or image available --> <!-- Start: /pubsys/production/story/assets/image_embedded.comp --> http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2009/12/25/23/KUvsRAD_SP_120909_rs_0032f.1_12-26-2009_M01D7B0U.embedded.prod_affiliate.81.jpg (http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2009/12/25/23/KUvsRAD_SP_120909_rs_0032f.1_12-26-2009_M01D7B0U.standalone.prod_affiliate.81.jpg)
The KU basketball staff believes true freshman
Thomas Robinson (center) will benefit from the
extra practice.
<!-- End: /pubsys/production/story/assets/image_embedded.comp -->
LAWRENCE | This is Sherron Collins’ fourth winter break at Kansas, so he wasn’t surprised to hear coach Bill Self’s message to the team as the Jayhawks were finishing their final exams late last week.

“Coach let us know, ‘There’s nobody here. No family, no friends, just me and you,’ ” Collins said.

Listening to Collins, there seemed to be something menacing in Self’s tone, as if the coach had been waiting to have the No. 1 team in the country all to himself for a while now. And who could blame Self for being possessive?

This season, the Jayhawks have shown brilliance in stanzas but still have not put together that dominant performance in a 40-minute symphony. Self needs more time with them, and for the first time this season, he’ll have their undivided attention. No books, no family, no friends — all ball.

“I do think this is a time when teams basically put themselves in position to have a great year,” Self said. “We’ve got to get better in some areas. I’ve always thought Christmas break was really important towards that.”

When classes are not in session, the NCAA’s mandatory-work rules do not apply. That means KU’s players do not have to abide by the usual 20-hour limit imposed on mandatory team activities until spring classes begin on Jan. 14. On many days, the Jayhawks will have two practices, and they also will be able to spend extra time with coaches doing individual workouts.

KU assistant coach Joe Dooley said this period is almost more beneficial to the coaches, who are always working when school is in session and now can take advantage of a similar level of devotion from the players.

Once KU tips off against Belmont on Tuesday night, the Jayhawks will play two games per week all the way up to the Big 12 tournament. As the season moves on, high-quality practice time will be harder to find.

“This is a big time,” Dooley said. “We only have a couple of nonconference games left. It’s building for conference play.”

Part of Self’s philosophy is to coach his teams to peak late in the season. In 2006, the Jayhawks won 15 of 16 before bowing out to Bradley in the NCAA Tournament. In 2007, they won 14 in a row before losing to UCLA in the Elite Eight. In 2008, they won their last 13 games on the way to the national championship. And last season, KU lost four nonconference games and then rolled to a 14-2 Big 12 record and its fifth straight regular-season league crown.

Self said one of the ways he trains the Jayhawks to improve steadily is by making them play basic man-to-man defense and using bare-bones offensive sets early in the season.

“You don’t give your team as many crutches to make it easy for them,” Self said. “For instance, we may be better in late January when we start switching through (ball screens) as opposed to fighting through them. Because if you bail them out now by switching early, then it’s too easy for them and they probably won’t know how to guard. That’s kind of how I’ve always felt.”

In other words, Self would rather his players drive a Chevy Malibu before taking the wheel of a Camaro because they’d appreciate the Camaro a lot more after taking a few spins around town in the Malibu.

“If you trap the post early in the season, then your guys won’t understand as much why they shouldn’t allow their man to catch it in other areas,” Self said. “Also, your best offensive sets, you may not run your best stuff. You may not try to get that easy basket. Certain situations, out of bounds, you’d rather have your team work on scoring against defense as opposed to (using) a crutch.”

The Jayhawks have rolled to an 11-0 start without using a lot of crutches. The holidays will be the time for KU to finish putting in all of their best schemes and packages and then refining them so that they’re ready to go when the games start to matter.

Dooley said the Jayhawks have learned probably 70 to 75 percent of the material thus far.

“We’ve got a lot of stuff in,” Dooley said. “We haven’t necessary got it where we want to get it. We’ll get a chance to have some repetition, a chance to integrate some things and hopefully smooth some things out that we already have in. This is time to really be able to focus on ironing out your offense and to get some continuity.”

Dooley said that KU’s true freshmen — Xavier Henry, Thomas Robinson and Elijah Johnson — probably will get the most out of the coming weeks.

“Between X (Xavier), Thomas and Elijah, you’re trying to get some familiarity with those guys in the offense and also playing with those other people,” Dooley said. “We’ve played 11 games with those guys together. When you’re looking at your top nine as of right now, three of them are still freshmen. They haven’t gotten a ton of experience.”

The Jayhawks are also in the process of welcoming guard Brady Morningstar and center Jeff Withey to the lineup. If past seasons under Self are any indication, KU fans should begin noticing a change in their team by February.

“We usually haven’t gotten really good until after Christmas break,” KU guard Tyrel Reed said. “Once that comes around, I think we’re gonna get better fast.”

[Silock]

Scary.

[Mr. Laz]

Part of Self’s philosophy is to coach his teams to peak late in the season.

Self said one of the ways he trains the Jayhawks to improve steadily is by making them play basic man-to-man defense and using bare-bones offensive sets early in the season.


“You don’t give your team as many crutches to make it easy for them,” Self said. “For instance, we may be better in late January when we start switching through (ball screens) as opposed to fighting through them. Because if you bail them out now by switching early, then it’s too easy for them and they probably won’t know how to guard. That’s kind of how I’ve always felt.”


“If you trap the post early in the season, then your guys won’t understand as much why they shouldn’t allow their man to catch it in other areas,” Self said. “Also, your best offensive sets, you may not run your best stuff. You may not try to get that easy basket. Certain situations, out of bounds, you’d rather have your team work on scoring against defense as opposed to (using) a crutch.”


Dooley said the Jayhawks have learned probably 70 to 75 percent of the material thus far.


“We usually haven’t gotten really good until after Christmas break,” KU guard Tyrel Reed said. “Once that comes around, I think we’re gonna get better fast.”
you could tell the slow starts were sort of the plan for Self and his players pick up on it.


i think that limits the top end of his teams

[Fritz88]

Best coach in the NCAA. Period.

Fugg all the hates.

[DJJasonp]

Best coach in the NCAA. Period.

Fugg all the hates.

yep....I know no one ever wants to lose....but I think Bill sometimes flirts with losses by allowing the younger kids to learn lessons early in the season (on why something worked or didnt work).

[ArrowheadHawk]

Best coach in the NCAA. Period.

Fugg all the hates.

This. Self is by far the best coach that KU has ever had.

[teedubya]

I love Bill Self... one of the most humble, most gracious, awesome people out there... and he happens to coach at my alumni.

[Lzen]

you could tell the slow starts were sort of the plan for Self and his players pick up on it.


i think that limits the top end of his teams

Yep. Imagine if he would just coach better perhaps his team may win a championship someday.

[Lzen]

This. Self is by far the best coach that KU has ever had.

Whoa! I love Bill Self, too. But let's not get crazy here. Ever hear of a guy named Phog Allen? Self has a lot more to prove before he can even be considered the best ever at KU.

[BWillie]

Someone should make a JayhawkPlanet.com

[Dottefan]

This. Self is by far the best coach that KU has ever had.

I have a man crush on Bill Self. :D

[Stewie]

Bill Self is awesome. I'll have to add Larry Brown into the mix. Not because he won the NC in '88, but I sat behind the bench during a ton of games while he was coaching. As a former B-Ball player (no, not in college) I was impressed how he coached his team during games. He was on top of every aspect of what was going on. He also had a very loud foot stomp. I'm not sure how he got so much noise out of dress shoes.

[Saul Good]

Roy Williams isn't as good. Self is better. Williams only has 2 NCs and no first round losses in the tournament since taking over a North Carolina team that was in the toilet the same year that Self took over a team coming off of back to back final four appearances.

[ArrowheadHawk]

Roy Williams isn't as good. Self is better. Williams only has 2 NCs and no first round losses in the tournament since taking over a North Carolina team that was in the toilet the same year that Self took over a team coming off of back to back final four appearances.

He also doesn't limit his recruiting now that he at UNC. While at Kansas he wouldn't recruit against UNC. He actually recruits better at UNC.

[Stewie]

Roy Williams isn't as good. Self is better. Williams only has 2 NCs and no first round losses in the tournament since taking over a North Carolina team that was in the toilet the same year that Self took over a team coming off of back to back final four appearances.

Yet, he's only played KU once in the tournament. Wasn't it like 40-12 at one point and UNC was totally baffled? Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how it went.

[Reerun_KC]

Roy Williams isn't as good. Self is better. Williams only has 2 NCs and no first round losses in the tournament since taking over a North Carolina team that was in the toilet the same year that Self took over a team coming off of back to back final four appearances.

ROFL

Weak ass action.... ROFL

Can you be more retarded? Seriously? Could you?

[RealSNR]

Roy Williams isn't as good. Self is better. Williams only has 2 NCs and no first round losses in the tournament since taking over a North Carolina team that was in the toilet the same year that Self took over a team coming off of back to back final four appearances.Should've been easy for him to win a championship with those final four teams if he was such a great coach, yes?

[BWillie]

Roy Williams isn't as good. Self is better. Williams only has 2 NCs and no first round losses in the tournament since taking over a North Carolina team that was in the toilet the same year that Self took over a team coming off of back to back final four appearances.

Roy Williams on paper, is the better coach. But when Self is Roy's age I think Self will have surpassed him by then. I ain't got nothin' for love for Roy unlike most KU fans. He poured his heart and soul into this university for a long time. He said no once, and it was tough for him. I can't fault him for going back to his Alma Mater.

[Skip Towne]

Whoa! I love Bill Self, too. But let's not get crazy here. Ever hear of a guy named Phog Allen? Self has a lot more to prove before he can even be considered the best ever at KU.

And Allen learned the game from James Naismith.

[BWillie]

And Allen learned the game from James Naismith.

What's crazy is Naismith is the only KU coach w/ a losing record. Maybe he just couldn't recruit :shrug:

[Pablo]

Roy Williams isn't as good. Self is better. Williams only has 2 NCs and no first round losses in the tournament since taking over a North Carolina team that was in the toilet the same year that Self took over a team coming off of back to back final four appearances.You're a fucking douche.

[Skip Towne]

You're a fucking douche.

Yes, yes he is.

[Lzen]

ROFL

Weak ass action.... ROFL

Can you be more retarded? Seriously? Could you?

Consider the source. Every KU thread has at least one or two retard comments from him.

BTW, the UNC team that Roy took over had a lot of great talent. Dougherty was able to recruit great talent. He just couldn't control them, which is why he got fired.

And the team that Self took over lost their 2 best players in Hinrich and Collison to graduation. But of course we should not expect Saul retard to know that.

Funny thing is that I tend to agree with his comments in the political forum. Obviously when it comes to KU, his MUronness overcomes his logic.

[Lzen]

Roy Williams on paper, is the better coach. But when Self is Roy's age I think Self will have surpassed him by then. I ain't got nothin' for love for Roy unlike most KU fans. He poured his heart and soul into this university for a long time. He said no once, and it was tough for him. I can't fault him for going back to his Alma Mater.

I feel the same way. The only thing I held against him for awhile was that he sad he would never go anywhere. But I guess it is hard to turn down Dean. And I hold that prick Dean Smith responsible. Not just for taking Roy, but for distracting a great KU team that was preparing for a title game.

In the end, both programs benefited.

[Lzen]

Oh, and we were talking KU coaches. So, this discussion about Roy and Bill is pretty easy.

Self - 1 National Championship (while at KU)
Williams - 0 National Championships (while at KU)

[teedubya]

HAHAHA Saul Good is now talking smack in KU hoops threads? Wow.

He reminds me of this.

http://images.quickblogcast.com/7/3/3/1/4/150663-141337/_DSC0170_1.jpg

[teedubya]

He also doesn't limit his recruiting now that he at UNC. While at Kansas he wouldn't recruit against UNC. He actually recruits better at UNC.

Im glad his ass is gone. If he were here he would still have 0 championships, I'm sure of it.

[Saul Good]

Oh, and we were talking KU coaches. So, this discussion about Roy and Bill is pretty easy.

Self - 1 National Championship (while at KU)
Williams - 0 National Championships (while at KU)

John Wooden: 0 National Championships at KU.

[Braincase]

John Wooden: 0 National Championships at KU.

Best Coach to ever dodge an NCAA investigation.

[Reerun_KC]

John Wooden: 0 National Championships at KU.

:doh!:

Rebuttal Fail...

[ArrowheadHawk]

Saul Good = Retard.

[chiefqueen]

Im glad his ass is gone. If he were here he would still have 0 championships, I'm sure of it.

Well, if Roy stayed at KU, Brandon Rush would have never been a Jayhawk.

[DJay23]

The formula works. Self has won or tied for the conference championship 9 of his last 11 years in coaching. The other 2 season he finished second.

[Silock]

John Wooden: 0 National Championships at KU.

Coincidentally, John Wooden: 0 years coaching at KU

ZOMG

[kitten_mittons]

Bill Self isn't even the best coach in the Big XII.

[Pablo]

Bill Self isn't even the best coach in the Big XII.Yes he is.

Try again.

[Saul Good]

Well, if Roy stayed at KU, Brandon Rush would have never been a Jayhawk.

Tyler Hansbrough would have, though.

[Saul Good]

Bill Self isn't even the best coach in the Big XII.

Wrong

[Silock]

Bill Self isn't even the best coach in the Big XII.

I agree. I'd put him somewhere in the 10-11 range.

[Saul Good]

I agree. I'd put him somewhere in the 10-11 range.

Mangino wasn't the fattest coach in the Big XII either.

[BWillie]

Bill Self isn't even the best coach in the Big XII.

Can you do me a favor?

Ok, go get a calculator and a pen.

Ok got that? Good.

Now write down all other 11 coaches in the Big 12 and compute how many National Titles and Conference titles they all have.

Did you get that? Ok good.

Now please compare those 11 other coaches TOTALS combined to Bill Self.

Do I even need clarify what my point is?

You definitely have an extra chromosome, idiot.

[doomy3]

Bill Self isn't even the best coach in the Big XII.

:LOL:

[kitten_mittons]

Self is probably more like 3rd or 4th.

[doomy3]

Self is probably more like 3rd or 4th.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

I am literally laughing out loud right now.

[kitten_mittons]

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

I am literally laughing out loud right now.

Self isn't even the best coach in the Big XII North.

[Dottefan]

Bill Self isn't even the best coach in the Big XII.

ROFL Does your mommy know that your on the internet?

[Bearcat]

Self isn't even the best coach in the Big XII North.

Well then, I guess the other teams can keep their superior coaches, and Kansas will have to deal with Self and their trophy case capacity problem.

[teedubya]

Man, bummer I wish Bill Self was one of the top 4-5 coaches in the Big 12... this sucks to find out that he isn't.

[kitten_mittons]

ROFL Does your mommy know that your on the internet?

Doubt it, I don't have to call my mom to tell her I'm. . .wait. . . lol, do you have to tell your mom every time you get on the internet? ROFL

[kitten_mittons]

Man, bummer I wish Bill Self was one of the top 4-5 coaches in the Big 12... this sucks to find out that he isn't.

I said he was 3-4. . .don't underrate the guy.

[Braincase]

I said he was 3-4. . .don't underrate the guy.

And to think of all those other coaches in the Big 12 with National Championships. Must keep Bill up at night knowing that they're out there. What were their names again?

[kitten_mittons]

Bill Self isn't even the best coach in the state of Kansas.

[Braincase]

Bill Self isn't even the best coach in the state of Kansas.

You're a fucking idiot.

[Terribilis]

Self is probably more like 3rd or 4th.
http://www.saynotocrack.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/troll.jpg

[Lzen]

Is this Kitten dude serious? ROFL

[DJay23]

Is this Kitten dude serious? ROFL
He's trying to get a rise out of the KU fans.

[Silock]

Well then, I guess the other teams can keep their superior coaches, and Kansas will have to deal with Self and their trophy case capacity problem.

LOL

Speaking of... our new trophy case in the Booth Family Hall of Athletics is pretty freaking awesome. Definitely a sight to see in person.

[Silock]

Doubt it, I don't have to call my mom to tell her I'm. . .wait. . . lol, do you have to tell your mom every time you get on the internet? ROFL

COMEBACK FAIL

Come on, dude. You were on a roll, then you just repeated the insult? Uber lame.

[Boon]

Is this Kitten dude serious? ROFL

I think he's really high right now.

[Dottefan]

Doubt it, I don't have to call my mom to tell her I'm. . .wait. . . lol, do you have to tell your mom every time you get on the internet? ROFL

Wow..this is awkard.You repleyed to my insult..with the same insult :rolleyes:

.Just like when Kitton Mittons showed up to HIS prom, and there was another girl wearing the same DRESS that he had ...except, that she was a hot chick and looked good in the dress...and he was just an awkward pimple faced overweight kid with a bad case of ass acne, with his grand mother as his date.. ...it was just weird.

[Dottefan]

If I could just have all the Kstate fans stand next to one of their National Champion ship trop.....oh wait,you don't know what that is do you?

Well, you should ask Bill Self..he knows all about those.

[kitten_mittons]

Wow..this is awkard.You repleyed to my insult..with the same insult :rolleyes:

.Just like when Kitton Mittons showed up to HIS prom, and there was another girl wearing the same DRESS that he had ...except, that she was a hot chick and looked good in the dress...and he was just an awkward pimple faced overweight kid with a bad case of ass acne, with his grand mother as his date.. ...it was just weird.

Wow, you make fun of my insult and you come back with this? And I wasn't just saying the same thing you said, since you apparently thought it was normal that someone would have to ask their mom's permission, I simply wondered if you had to do that.

[kepp]

He's trying to get a rise out of the KU fans.

And it looks like it's working. I haven't seen this many blue, cartoon feathers get ruffled since the fight between your football & basketball teams.

[Lzen]

And it looks like it's working. I haven't seen this many blue, cartoon feathers get ruffled since the fight between your football & basketball teams.

Ruffled? ROFL

Looks more like they just took out the trash.

[Bearcat]

He's trying to get a rise out of the KU fans.

Yeah, a couple of clicks fixed the problem for me... no more drivel.

[kitten_mittons]

If it makes you guys feel any better, he is the best cheater in the Big XII.

[Dottefan]

Wow, you make fun of my insult and you come back with this? And I wasn't just saying the same thing you said, since you apparently thought it was normal that someone would have to ask their mom's permission, I simply wondered if you had to do that.

Kitten Mittons = FAIL.

[sedated]

yawn

[Skip Towne]

Would a mod please check and find out which KSU doosh' dupe this is and boot both their asses?

[kitten_mittons]

Would a mod please check and find out which KSU doosh' dupe this is and boot both their asses?

Why does everyone here think that I am a sock? And I haven't done anything to be booted, just stating facts that you guys are insecure about. . .A little too insecure if I do say so myself.

[Skip Towne]

Why does everyone here think that I am a sock? And I haven't done anything to be booted, just stating facts that you guys are insecure about. . .A little too insecure if I do say so myself.

Dupe accounts aren't allowed and CAN get you booted.

[kitten_mittons]

Dupe accounts aren't allowed and CAN get you booted.

Right, and I just stated that this is not a dupe account. . .

Apparently having the IQ of a retard doesn't get you booted or this place would be like a ghost town.

[Skip Towne]

Right, and I just stated that this is not a dupe account. . .

Apparently having the IQ of a retard doesn't get you booted or this place would be like a ghost town.

It's just that I don't believe you.

[kitten_mittons]

It's just that I don't believe you.

That's fine if you are a moron, I already figured you were. But I stated that this is not a dupe account, so you'll have to get over it.

[Silock]

If it makes you guys feel any better, he is the best cheater in the Big XII.

You still failed to post your list. Let's see it. Best coaches in the Big 12. Go.

[Mr. Laz]

Kitten Mittons = FAIL.
who is this kitten mitt you are referring to?

[Dottefan]

You still failed to post your list. Let's see it. Best coaches in the Big 12. Go.

Judging from his post I bet this guy`s list of ACTIVE coaches in the big 12 starts with ...Bob Huggins...and has Norm Stewart in there some where.ROFL

[WilliamTheIrish]

Dupe accounts aren't allowed and CAN get you booted.

What was the name of your dupe account from a few years back that you used to hide behind?

[Reerun_KC]

who is this kitten mitt you are referring to?

The fact that he is a KSU fan really must suck for guys like William whom are great peeps....

[teedubya]

What was the name of your dupe account from a few years back that you used to hide behind?

mine was FAUXbia. I thought it was brilliant until Phobia put the kebash [sp?] on it.

[kitten_mittons]

You still failed to post your list. Let's see it. Best coaches in the Big 12. Go.
All you need to know is that Cheater McHairpiece is probably in the 4 spot. Not bad for the former OSU grad. The Big XII is a good conference and he should be proud to be hanging with the big boys.

[kitten_mittons]

mine was FAUXbia. I thought it was brilliant until Phobia put the kebash [sp?] on it.

Don't admit to it, skip will have you banned! Well, at least don't make him feel like the idiot he is or he will try to get you banned.

[Reerun_KC]

All you need to know is that Cheater McHairpiece is probably in the 4 spot. Not bad for the former OSU grad. The Big XII is a good conference and he should be proud to be hanging with the big boys.

Your basketball knowledge is profound.... Your fanbase and school should be proud....

Sadly, the regional and national college basketball fans, reporters and experts disagree with you...

But please, keep us updated on your version of the big 12...

[Mr_Tomahawk]

Your basketball knowledge is profound.... Your fanbase and school should be proud....

Sadly, the regional and national college basketball fans, reporters and experts disagree with you...

But please, keep us updated on your version of the big 12...

:)

[kitten_mittons]

Your basketball knowledge is profound.... Your fanbase and school should be proud....

Sadly, the regional and national college basketball fans, reporters and experts disagree with you...

But please, keep us updated on your version of the big 12...

You mean the same reporters and coaches that had Washington, cal, and michigan in the top 15 to start the season? Yeah, they must be geniuses.

[Lzen]

All you need to know is that Cheater McHairpiece is probably in the 4 spot. Not bad for the former OSU grad. The Big XII is a good conference and he should be proud to be hanging with the big boys.

Cop out, big time. C'mon, let's see it. Don't be such a wuss. Show us your list of the best coaches in the Big 12.

[sedated]

Cop out, big time. C'mon, let's see it. Don't be such a wuss. Show us your list of the best coaches in the Big 12.

I think this would qualify as hook, line, and sinker

[CHIEFS58]

oh kansas fans, still bitter that roy came home.

IM A TAR HEEL BORN, IM A TAR HEEL BRED, AND WHEN I DIE, IM A TAR HEEL DEAD!

(no, really....born and raised in NC, so i get it honest)

[Skip Towne]

oh kansas fans, still bitter that roy came home.

IM A TAR HEEL BORN, IM A TAR HEEL BRED, AND WHEN I DIE, IM A TAR HEEL DEAD!

(no, really....born and raised in NC, so i get it honest)

ALSO A TAR HEEL COCKSUCKER

[CoMoChief]

oh kansas fans, still bitter that roy came home.

IM A TAR HEEL BORN, IM A TAR HEEL BRED, AND WHEN I DIE, IM A TAR HEEL DEAD!

(no, really....born and raised in NC, so i get it honest)

I dont think ANY Kansas fan is upset about Roy leaving after Self fist fucked Roy's Tar Heels in the Final Four in 2008, then went on to win a NC

[Bearcat]

It's great how UNC fans want to poke their head through the drive-thru window every once in a while to tell Kansas fans about Roy, and most of the time they're the ones bringing it up in the first place.

Hell, at least the kitten douche is a bit more on topic... you can't even get that right. :doh!: LMAO

[sedated]

oh kansas fans, still bitter that roy came home.

IM A TAR HEEL BORN, IM A TAR HEEL BRED, AND WHEN I DIE, IM A TAR HEEL DEAD!

(no, really....born and raised in NC, so i get it honest)

who the f**k was talking about UNC? who is bitter? we got the better coach.

[Lzen]

oh kansas fans, still bitter that roy came home.

IM A TAR HEEL BORN, IM A TAR HEEL BRED, AND WHEN I DIE, IM A TAR HEEL DEAD!

(no, really....born and raised in NC, so i get it honest)

Really? Does this sound like bitterness toward Roy?

I feel the same way. The only thing I held against him for awhile was that he said he would never go anywhere. But I guess it is hard to turn down Dean. And I hold that prick Dean Smith responsible. Not just for taking Roy, but for distracting a great KU team that was preparing for a title game.

In the end, both programs benefited.

I wish Roy the best and thank him for a lot of good years of KU hoops.

[Lzen]

I think this would qualify as hook, line, and sinker

How do you figure that? I am just holding his feet to the fire. He said something that most KU fans feel is ridiculous. Now I am curious as to who he considers better than Self.

[HC_Chief]

I wish Roy the best and thank him for a lot of good years of KU hoops.

+1
I never understood nor partook in the Roy hate.

[Bearcat]

+1
I never understood nor partook in the Roy hate.

I was more bitter about Self being hired than I ever was about Roy leaving, because I didn't want the high-low Big 10 crap.... and of course, I'm now much happier watching a complete team. Roy's teams are fun to watch, but I can't help but laugh when a team puts up a hundred on them, like Texas a couple of weekends ago.

Turning Roy into some asshole that intentionally lied was flat out ridiculous. I did like the "I don't give a sh*t about North Carolina" t-shirts though.

I still don't.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/bearcat2002/tshirt.jpg

[kitten_mittons]

Roy Williams would be the best coach in the Big XII if he were still here. That would drop Self to 5th.

[Skip Towne]

Self has won the Big XII five years in a row. Where are these 4 coaches finishing?

[CoMoChief]

Self has won the Big XII five years in a row. Where are these 4 coaches finishing?

"KU didnt win the Big 12 conference last season"
- dumbass Frazod

[Skip Towne]

I was more bitter about Self being hired than I ever was about Roy leaving, because I didn't want the high-low Big 10 crap.... and of course, I'm now much happier watching a complete team. Roy's teams are fun to watch, but I can't help but laugh when a team puts up a hundred on them, like Texas a couple of weekends ago.

Turning Roy into some asshole that intentionally lied was flat out ridiculous. I did like the "I don't give a sh*t about North Carolina" t-shirts though.

I still don't.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r143/bearcat2002/tshirt.jpg

You didn't want Self? I sure did. He beat Roy twice while Roy was at Kansas. And he's beat him once since.

[Bearcat]

You didn't want Self? I sure did. He beat Roy twice while Roy was at Kansas. And he's beat him once since.

I grew up on Roy's program, so at first I was skeptical, at best. When Self was hired, he said something along the lines of "this is the Big 12, so I plan on running.. that's what you do in the Big 12". Then the high-low came, and I was kinda pissed about that... I knew it would get better once he had his own players, but didn't know if I'd even want to watch it. It wasn't so much about the ability to win games as it was about the entertainment value.... I hate Big 10 basketball... it's the equivalent of watching the KU/SIU tournament game from a few years back or KU/MSU last year, but all f***ing season. I remember that Archibald punk at Illinois, and I definitely didn't want to watch thug ball.

Needless to say, we ended up with a complete team... one that I much prefer over Roy's style. His teams are fun to watch, but Self has taught me to love the defensive side of basketball, while not completely taking away the offense I grew up watching.

It's the best of both worlds.

[Reerun_KC]

I grew up on Roy's program, so at first I was skeptical, at best. When Self was hired, he said something along the lines of "this is the Big 12, so I plan on running.. that's what you do in the Big 12". Then the high-low came, and I was kinda pissed about that... I knew it would get better once he had his own players, but didn't know if I'd even want to watch it. It wasn't so much about the ability to win games as it was about the entertainment value.... I hate Big 10 basketball... it's the equivalent of watching the KU/SIU tournament game from a few years back or KU/MSU last year, but all f***ing season. I remember that Archibald punk at Illinois, and I definitely didn't want to watch thug ball.

Needless to say, we ended up with a complete team... one that I much prefer over Roy's style. His teams are fun to watch, but Self has taught me to love the defensive side of basketball, while not completely taking away the offense I grew up watching.

It's the best of both worlds.

Not bad for the 4th worst coach in the big 12 huh?

[FishingRod]

Not bad for the 4th worst coach in the big 12 huh?

I am a KU fan and a Bill Self Fan but, if you are just talking about Xs and Os you could probably take any of Big 12 head coaches or even most college coaches from the State of Kansas give them all the players Bill has brought to KU and they would do quite well. That is because Recruiting is AT LEAST as important to the success of a program as their coach's basketball IQ. Hell, you could give me this team I could pick Collins to run the offense and some other player to run the Defense and not come in last place in the big 12. Now having said all of that, there is no one I would want trade Self for as our head coach. He has been successful all the way from the small schools to the middle size schools to one of the top programs in the country. So when you put together all of his qualities he does make one of the best coaches in the country and he is a likeable person and are proud to call MY teams coach.

[ArrowheadHawk]

Here is a real list of the best coaches in America. (http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/24/ncaa-march-madness-lifestyle-sport_basketball.html)

1. Roy Williams
2. Bill Self
3. Ben Howland
4. Coach K
5. Billy Donovan
6. Tom Izzo
7. John Calipari
8. Mark Few
9. Bo Ryan
10. Rick Barnes

[sedated]

How do you figure that? I am just holding his feet to the fire. He said something that most KU fans feel is ridiculous. Now I am curious as to who he considers better than Self.

He has no intention of bringing anything worthwhile. He simply wants to get everyone's panties in a bunch by spewing ridiculous insults.

[Reerun_KC]

Here is a real list of the best coaches in America. (http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/24/ncaa-march-madness-lifestyle-sport_basketball.html)

1. Roy Williams
2. Bill Self
3. Ben Howland
4. Coach K
5. Billy Donovan
6. Tom Izzo
7. John Calipari
8. Mark Few
9. Bo Ryan
10. Rick Barnes

That might be america, but not the Big 12, /Kitton Mittons.

[Lzen]

You didn't want Self? I sure did. He beat Roy twice while Roy was at Kansas. And he's beat him once since.

Eh, Roy beat Self on the way to a Final Four in 2002.

[Lzen]

He has no intention of bringing anything worthwhile. He simply wants to get everyone's panties in a bunch by spewing ridiculous insults.

I know that. It has not worked on me. I am just asking for a simple answer.

[Skip Towne]

Eh, Roy beat Self on the way to a Final Four in 2002.

I think Self is 3-1 against Roy.

[Lzen]

I think Self is 3-1 against Roy.

I think you are correct. Unless they played while he was at Tulsa. Can't remember.

[Skip Towne]

I think you are correct. Unless they played while he was at Tulsa. Can't remember.

I followed Self when he was at ORU and Tulsa but i don't remember him playing Kansas during that time. KU did go to Tulsa a few years back but I think Self was at Illinois at the time.

[Mr. Laz]

AND WHEN I DIE, IM A TAR HEEL DEAD!


The sooner the better, i always say.

[ArrowheadHawk]

The sooner the better, i always say.ROFL

[kitten_mittons]

That might be america, but not the Big 12, /Kitton Mittons.

Well, that defeats your guys' logic, so which do you agree with? That list? Or UKjr logic of who has the most NC's?

[Reerun_KC]

Well, that defeats your guys' logic, so which do you agree with? That list? Or UKjr logic of who has the most NC's?

At least we can use logic in our discussions....

[kitten_mittons]

At least we can use logic in our discussions....

Yeah, you use logic that you, yourself disprove. That makes you smart.

[Reerun_KC]

Yeah, you use logic that you, yourself disprove. That makes you smart.

:eek:

[kitten_mittons]

:eek:

That's the face Sherron's elevator victims make.

[ArrowheadMagic]

That's the face Sherron's elevator victims make.


Did you ever give your list of 3 coaches in the big 12 that were better than Self?

[Reerun_KC]

Did you ever give your list of 3 coaches in the big 12 that were better than Self?

Interested in that list....

[Skip Towne]

We still haven't seen the list of Big XII coaches who are better than Self from Shitton Mittons.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Skip, what the name of your old dupe account?

[Reerun_KC]

Skip, what the name of your old dupe account?

William? Are you sure this mittons account isnt a dupe of yours?

[kitten_mittons]

Skip, what the name of your old dupe account?

He won't tell you because he is a hypocrite.

And if you guys really think Self is the best coach in the big XII, then you are laughable at best.

[Reerun_KC]

Deflect and spin, Deflect and spin....

[Skip Towne]

Skip, what the name of your old dupe account?

Roy D Mercer

[Reerun_KC]

Roy D Mercer

ROFL

I remember that now.... That was funny!

[WilliamTheIrish]

William? Are you sure this mittons account isnt a dupe of yours?

Feel free to have the mods shake my IP down. But I think you know better. I do laugh at how a ridiculous statement made by (a KU fan) dupe has sent so many heads spinning.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Roy D Mercer

Not that one. I had forgotten about that one. You had one more.

[Reerun_KC]

Feel free to have the mods shake my IP down. But I think you know better. I do laugh at how a ridiculous statement made by (a KU fan) dupe has sent so many heads spinning.

I am just yanking your chain... You should know better than that.... You have to forgive Skip, it comes with the age.. :D

[ArrowheadMagic]

Interested in that list....


Yeah, like to see him put Barnes and Capel ahead of him......but alas, the list wont ever appear. Easy part is getting the talent, harder to make them play together. No coach in the big XII is better than Self at that...... KU is the class of the conference. Think Texas wins the regular season matchup because its in Austin, but Texas doesnt have the depth nor is it willing to play defense long enough to beat KU anywhere else.

barnes might be an equal in recruiting, but X's and O's..... Self is and will be better.

[kitten_mittons]

Roy D Mercer

OMG ban he had a dupe!!!!

No, I don't give a fuck that you had a dupe, because I'm not as sensitive as you are apparently. I don't know why you want everyone who is smarter than you to be banned. I guess some people are just stuck in their ways.

[ArrowheadMagic]

He won't tell you because he is a hypocrite.

And if you guys really think Self is the best coach in the big XII, then you are laughable at best.


Who are the 3 better?

[Reerun_KC]

Yeah, like to see him put Barnes and Capel ahead of him......but alas, the list wont ever appear. Easy part is getting the talent, harder to make them play together. No coach in the big XII is better than Self at that...... KU is the class of the conference. Think Texas wins the regular season matchup because its in Austin, but Texas doesnt have the depth nor is it willing to play defense long enough to beat KU anywhere else.

barnes might be an equal in recruiting, but X's and O's..... Self is and will be better.

Barnes is a great coach and has the Texas pipeline right at his back door... I am impressed at what he has done with Texas. Depth could be a big factor, but Damian James is a nasty freak, I will be glad when he grads and leaves TX...

I think Texas will win the game as well, but I also thought OU would wipe KU off the floor last year at Norman also.... Still alot of B-ball left to be played to get to giddy.....

[kitten_mittons]

Easy part is getting the talent

That is the only thing Self is good at. If you agree with what you posted right there, then you agree that Self is not the best coach in the Big XII.

[Reerun_KC]

That is the only thing Self is good at. If you agree with what you posted right there, then you agree that Self is not the best coach in the Big XII.

ROFL

rebuttal fail....

Please at least post some facts to back this up?

[kitten_mittons]

ROFL

rebuttal fail....

Please at least post some facts to back this up?

Yes, let me post a fact that says bill self is a bad x's and o's coach.

You're a moron.

[Skip Towne]

That is the only thing Self is good at. If you agree with what you posted right there, then you agree that Self is not the best coach in the Big XII.

Why are you even in this conversation? Your team has been shit for years.

[Reerun_KC]

Yes, let me post a fact that says bill self is a bad x's and o's coach.

You're a moron.

Yet you fail at posting a list of who is better? I can throw shit at the wall all day, but it doesnt make it fact or true...

Those damn bad x's and o'x really failed, See Evidence below...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2278/2499495591_3f23dbb0c4.jpg

[kitten_mittons]

Why are you even in this conversation? Your team has been shit for years.

84-75.

Try again biotch!

[ArrowheadMagic]

That is the only thing Self is good at. If you agree with what you posted right there, then you agree that Self is not the best coach in the Big XII.


Geting the talent is the easy part, winning championships require good X's and O's coaches. Or Calipari would would have the trophy named after him. Again, what 3 coaches are better than Self?

[Reerun_KC]

Geting the talent is the easy part, winning championships require good X's and O's coaches. Or Calipari would would have the trophy named after him. Again, what 3 coaches are better than Self?

Its pointless.... Get back to the discussion....

[kitten_mittons]

Geting the talent is the easy part, winning championships require good X's and O's coaches. Or Calipari would would have the trophy named after him. Again, what 3 coaches are better than Self?

Calipari out x and o'd self, self out lucked Calipari in the fact that Memphis couldn't make a free throw.

[ArrowheadMagic]

Calipari out x and o'd self, self out lucked Calipari in the fact that Memphis couldn't make a free throw.


So Self out coached Calipari by putting his guys on the line.... plus a steal or 2.... nevermind Memphis had a whole OT to recover from it... Thats 5 minutes to win......


Just name your 3 coaches better than Self in the Big XII so the real discussion can begin. Or was that just talk?

[kitten_mittons]

So Self out coached Calipari by putting his guys on the line.... plus a steal or 2.... nevermind Memphis had a whole OT to recover from it... Thats 5 minutes to win......


Just name your 3 coaches better than Self in the Big XII so the real discussion can begin. Or was that just talk?

Obviously Anderson and Martin are better than Self, Barnes is debatable.

[Reerun_KC]

Obviously Anderson and Martin are better than Self, Barnes is debatable.

Mitch Holtus disagrees with you...

[ArrowheadMagic]

Barnes is a great coach and has the Texas pipeline right at his back door... I am impressed at what he has done with Texas. Depth could be a big factor, but Damian James is a nasty freak, I will be glad when he grads and leaves TX...

I think Texas will win the game as well, but I also thought OU would wipe KU off the floor last year at Norman also.... Still alot of B-ball left to be played to get to giddy.....

Capel is disappointing this year to say the least. Without Blake last year... OU wasnt beating KU anywhere. This years OU team is hard to watch, talented but looks lost. Warren walks for sure, even though he isnt ready.

[kitten_mittons]

Mitch Holtus disagrees with you...

Good, Mitch Holtus knows nothing. If him and I are in disagreement, I feel more than confident that I am correct.

[teedubya]

Can you imagine how good OU would be this year if Damian James and that other dude who was going to go there before Sampson got fired... they may have won it all last year.

[Reerun_KC]

Capel is disappointing this year to say the least. Without Blake last year... OU wasnt beating KU anywhere. This years OU team is hard to watch, talented but looks lost. Warren walks for sure, even though he isnt ready.

It really went south. Griffen was a great player, would of loved to seen him play against KU... Dude only played 2 min against the Jayhawks in his career...

Yeah not sure what happened to OU... They are brutal to watch, something isnt gelling yet...

I am sure Warren is regretting not going to KU...

[Reerun_KC]

Can you imagine how good OU would be this year if Damian James and that other dude who was going to go there before Sampson got fired... they may have won it all last year.

Very much so.. They would still be nasty... Sometimes coaching changes work and sometimes it takes awhile to rebuild...

[ArrowheadMagic]

Obviously Anderson and Martin are better than Self, Barnes is debatable.


See, i thought you were serious. rep for the chuckle.

[Dottefan]

He won't tell you because he is a hypocrite.

And if you guys really think Self is the best coach in the big XII, then you are laughable at best.

ROFLROFL...You`re stupid.

[Dottefan]

84-75.

Try again biotch!

lol...Yeah try 24 years of loosing on your own home court to your in state rival..lol..that must make you a bitter, ignorant sports fan.


Has this dumb ass made his list of best coaches in the big XII yet ?

[ArrowheadMagic]

lol...Yeah try 24 years of loosing on your own home court to your in state rival..lol..that must make you a bitter, ignorant sports fan.


Has this dumb ass made his list of best coaches in the big XII yet ?


Anderson and Martin are 1 and 2. Barnes is the debatable one.

[ArrowheadMagic]

Obviously Anderson and Martin are better than Self, Barnes is debatable.
.

[Skip Towne]

lol...Yeah try 24 years of loosing on your own home court to your in state rival..lol..that must make you a bitter, ignorant sports fan.


Has this dumb ass made his list of best coaches in the big XII yet ?

Not yet but we only asked him 14 times. He also needs to explain why Roy is better than Self when Self owns 3-1 advantage in head to head. He runs his mouth but can't back it up. Very K-Stateish.

[DJay23]

Not yet but we only asked him 14 times. He also needs to explain why Roy is better than Self when Self owns 3-1 advantage in head to head. He runs his mouth but can't back it up. Very K-Stateish.

For that matter Martin and Anderson are a combined what, 2-8 vs Self?

You'd think if they were so much better they would have more success.

[Dottefan]

Not yet but we only asked him 14 times. He also needs to explain why Roy is better than Self when Self owns 3-1 advantage in head to head. He runs his mouth but can't back it up. Very K-Stateish.

This guy is a joke. You would think that he would at least try to back up his "way of thinking " but he just dodges the question...oh well, I think K-state won back to back championships in growing soil..he could hang his hat on that.lol

[Reerun_KC]

This guy is a joke. You would think that he would at least try to back up his "way of thinking " but he just dodges the question...oh well, I think K-state won back to back championships in growing soil..he could hang his hat on that.lol

A little fact finding never hurts anyone...

[DJay23]

This guy is a joke. You would think that he would at least try to back up his "way of thinking " but he just dodges the question...oh well, I think K-state won back to back championships in growing soil..he could hang his hat on that.lol

It's not difficult to do what he's doing. Anyone can make ridiculous proclamations and put on an air of knowing like you have some inside info no one else has. Anyone can take what someone says with passion and nonchalantly say the opposite. What does he have to lose? He can say stupid things and if they are true, he hit a bullseye in the dark. If he's wrong, oh we're stupid because we took it out of context.

His goal is not to make some grand point about basketball anyway, or even to prove anyone wrong, his goal is to get KU fans all hot and bothered because he disagrees with us. And sadly he's achieving his goal. The best thing we can do is ignore him. He shows up in every thread where KU is mentioned with the goal of wrecking it, and he's achieving that goal. He's a classic troll and we all know what they say about feeding those subhumans.

[kitten_mittons]

This guy is a joke. You would think that he would at least try to back up his "way of thinking " but he just dodges the question...oh well, I think K-state won back to back championships in growing soil..he could hang his hat on that.lol

Umm, hey retard, you cant grow soil. You guys try and call me stupid and you have this moron backing you up? Just makes you all look dumb. And of course anderson and martin don't have a winning record against self, his teams have loads more talent, the fact that self has lost any against MU or KSU just show how shitty of a coach he is.

[kitten_mittons]

If self was the best coach in the Big XII, he'd be able to beat a team of walk-ons. My point is proven. Have a nice evening.

[ROYC75]

It really went south. Griffen was a great player, would of loved to seen him play against KU... Dude only played 2 min against the Jayhawks in his career...

Yeah not sure what happened to OU... They are brutal to watch, something isnt gelling yet...

I am sure Warren is regretting not going to KU...

No kidding ....... OU is not locked in at all. I expected more from them, at least top 40, they are no where near it.

[ROYC75]

If self was the best coach in the Big XII, he'd be able to beat a team of walk-ons. My point is proven. Have a nice evening.

You really are stupid, aren't you.:shake:

The 6 scholarship players he had on today's game were sought after highly across the country.

Again, Tenn. caught KU on a down day, if you think this was the best KU can play you are even more stupid than the post you made. But thanks for the laugh.ROFL

[kitten_mittons]

You really are stupid, aren't you.:shake:

The 6 scholarship players he had on today's game were sought after highly across the country.

Again, Tenn. caught KU on a down day, if you think this was the best KU can play you are even more stupid than the post you made. But thanks for the laugh.ROFL

Seems like KU has a lot of down days. . .cal, memphis, cornell, UT. You know who else was highly sought after? KU's MCD all-americans that are so poorly coached they can't beat a team of 1/3rd walk-ons. How many more do they have to lose before you would say they aren't just losing down games, and that self really isn't a very good coach?

[Reerun_KC]

You really are stupid, aren't you.:shake:

The 6 scholarship players he had on today's game were sought after highly across the country.

Again, Tenn. caught KU on a down day, if you think this was the best KU can play you are even more stupid than the post you made. But thanks for the laugh.ROFL

Roy, Its a dupe account, Just let it slide and put it on ignore or FFvB and go on...

[Buehler445]

Roy, Its a dupe account, Just let it slide and put it on ignore or FFvB and go on...

Yep. Don't feed the animals.

[kitten_mittons]

Roy, Its a dupe account, Just let it slide and put it on ignore or FFvB and go on...

Why is everyone saying this is a dupe account? Very weird of all of you. I don't see the reason for someone to create a dupe account of this nature. Anyways, what is FFvB? Sounds fantastic.