Teicher: Chiefs survey options as likely No. 3 pick in NFL Draft

[Tribal Warfare]

Chiefs survey options as likely No. 3 pick in NFL Draft (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1654293.html)
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

The possibilities for the Chiefs will again almost be endless when the draft rolls around in April. They will be able to fortify their offensive line by picking Russell Okung, give Matt Cassel a top wide receiver by selecting Dez Bryant or add a playmaker to the back of their defense by choosing Eric Berry.

The time is almost here for the Chiefs to consider those possibilities. A third straight miserable season comes to a close Sunday when the Chiefs play the Broncos in Denver.

The 3-12 Chiefs look as if they will pick third in next year’s NFL draft. They can’t get the top pick because there’s no way for them to catch the 1-14 Rams, but they could fall below three if they beat the Broncos.

The Rams need a quarterback and may choose one with the first pick. Detroit probably will pick next and the defense-starved Lions can use Nebraska’s Ndamukong Suh, whom some scouts call the best defensive-tackle prospect in 20 years.

If Kansas City loses to Denver, the draft then falls to the Chiefs. They could go in any of several directions.

Offensive line might make the most sense. Okung of Oklahoma State is generally considered the best available tackle, though Oklahoma’s Trent Williams could be drafted ahead of him.

If the Chiefs select either player, they could move Branden Albert to right tackle or guard.

“He can play left tackle,” an NFL scout said of Okung. “He might be better at right tackle but I think he could play left. The guy from Oklahoma, Trent Williams, might be a better athlete. He might be a better natural left tackle.

“I don’t know if either one is worthy of being a top-five pick. I don’t know if either one is going to be a great player. But offensive tackle is the safest pick, a safer position if you’re drafting a guy there. It’s a good bet both of those guys will be become good players, at least. They could help your team. I don’t think you can go wrong with an offensive lineman. They’re both solid.”

The Chiefs may not have a true No. 1 wide receiver. In any case, they’ve been searching for skilled playmakers to help Cassel.

Oklahoma State’s Bryant would solve the problem. He’s big and more skilled than any wide receiver the Chiefs have had in years.

However, it might be difficult for the Chiefs or any team to select Bryant so high.

After a big 2008 season, Bryant played in only three games for the Cowboys this season.

At that point he was suspended by the NCAA for allegedly lying to its investigators, who were looking into his relationship with former NFL player Deion Sanders.

Gambling with a premium pick hardly seems the style of Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli.

It wouldn’t be a gamble for them to pick Berry, a safety from Tennessee who some scouts believe could do for a defense what Troy Polamalu has done for the Steelers or Ed Reed for the Ravens.

The Chiefs have Mike Brown and Jon McGraw, both 30 or older, starting at safety. Jarrad Page is on injured reserve, and the other Chiefs safeties are developmental prospects at best.

“He’s that same kind of caliber,” said the NFL scout, comparing Berry to Polamalu and Reed.

“He’s a special player. He’s a playmaker. You can count on him for that. If you need a center fielder back there, he would be a good investment.”

[chiefzilla1501]

JFC

[Slainte]

BPA in every round

[PhillyChiefFan]

[SIZE="5"][url=http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1654293.html]

“He can play left tackle,” an NFL scout said of Okung. “[B]He might be better at right tackle but I think he could play left. The guy from Oklahoma, Trent Williams, might be a better athlete. He might be a better natural left tackle.



That says it all for us. We don't have the talent to take a chance on a guy that "might be better at RT but COULD play LT."

We are talent starved and in my mind, you go get a top flite player in Berry, if available and you let him roam the backfield terrorizing wideouts. Flowers and Carr need help. Look at the yardage we are giving up on defense.

Defense needs a coordinator and someone to protect deep (I know, I know they need a lot more than that, but it's a start). If they are comparing Berry to Reed and Palomalu, I'd be much more apt to invest in Berry, than a guy who "may be suitable for LT, but better at RT."

[tyton75]

I would have to agree with that... even though taking a safety that high is a reach.

[bevischief]

BPA in every round

this

[The Bad Guy]

I would have to agree with that... even though taking a safety that high is a reach.

Honestly, who gives a shit anymore about position reaches. Berry is a special, special player. The Chiefs threw the word reach out the window when they gave 30 mill guaranteed to a 5-tech DE.

[BigRedChief]

I would have to agree with that... even though taking a safety that high is a reach.Ask Pitt and Seattle if having a top safety is a "reach". Look at how their seasons turned after losing their safety's. With everyone playing a cover 2 or some modification of cover 2 having a top flight Safety is essential to success in the NFL.

[InChiefsHeaven]

I'd love to see us get a WR, but we have so many needs, at this point you go BPA. I don't think you need to go OLine in the first round.

[BigRedChief]

I'd love to see us get a WR, but we have so many needs, at this point you go BPA. I don't think you need to go OLine in the first round.No way is any O-lineman in this draft worth the #3 pick. We suck and need major help on the o-line but overpaying and reaching isn't going to make us better in the long run.

[PhillyChiefFan]

Honestly, who gives a shit anymore about position reaches. Berry is a special, special player. The Chiefs threw the word reach out the window when they gave 30 mill guaranteed to a 5-tech DE.

:clap:

[alanm]

No way is any O-lineman in this draft worth the #3 pick. We suck and need major help on the o-line but overpaying and reaching isn't going to make us better in the long run.We already did that with Albert.
Berry.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

I am fine with going offensive lineman.... however, if the scouts think that he 'can' play LT, but would be a better RT..... then, he isn't worth the 3rd overall pick.

I like Berry or Bryant. I wouldn't mind seeing them beat the Broncos and drop a few spots. Then, maybe, trade down.

[Icon]

We don't need to use that high of a pick on a OL. This team needs playmakers on both sides of the ball. I'm with SensibleChiefsfan; Berry or Bryant

[Reerun_KC]

Trading down is fucking retarded talk... Same shit every year! Who is going to give up everything to move into the top 5?

Think about what your saying before you run off with the trade down talk.. Please?

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Trading down is ****ing retarded talk... Same shit every year! Who is going to give up everything to move into the top 5?

Think about what your saying before you run off with the trade down talk.. Please?

That is why I said I would like the Chiefs to beat the Broncos and drop a little in the draft. I know that it is nearly impossible to trade out of a top five spot.

Although, looking at the standings, even an additional win wouldn't get us out of the top five, most likely. So, a trade down is unlikely.... still would like it.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Trading down is ****ing retarded talk... Same shit every year! Who is going to give up everything to move into the top 5?

Think about what your saying before you run off with the trade down talk.. Please?


By the way, you don't have to trade down to the middle of the first with one trade. The key to trading down is dropping a few spots and picking up a second rounder, or a first next year.

The Chiefs can decide what they are willing to take.

If it is three spots or less, I would be fine with a third round pick (assuming it would also be a top 10 pick in the third round)

Last year, would you have been happy with a drop to #6 if they got an extra third round pick? I would have been fine with it. Especially, since they would have gotten the same guy.

[Reerun_KC]

That is why I said I would like the Chiefs to beat the Broncos and drop a little in the draft. I know that it is nearly impossible to trade out of a top five spot.

Although, looking at the standings, even an additional win wouldn't get us out of the top five, most likely. So, a trade down is unlikely.... still would like it.

Just isnt possible again this year to move out.... So you take the biggest impact player available regardless of position with that pick, hell and the best impact player you can get with first 2nd round pick as well... Then load up on OL...


This team is so void of talent at EVERY Position... We dont have the luxury of trading down when we have nothing on this team to build with...

[jAZ]

What gets us to #2?

[Reerun_KC]

By the way, you don't have to trade down to the middle of the first with one trade. The key to trading down is dropping a few spots and picking up a second rounder, or a first next year.

The Chiefs can decide what they are willing to take.

If it is three spots or less, I would be fine with a third round pick (assuming it would also be a top 10 pick in the third round)

Last year, would you have been happy with a drop to #6 if they got an extra third round pick? I would have been fine with it. Especially, since they would have gotten the same guy.

Agree....

[notorious]

Just wipe OSU players off any 1st round draft talk. Please.

[notorious]

What gets us to #2?

Usually a lot of fiber.

Taco Bell or Taco Tico usually does the trick for me.

[nychief]

We already did that with Albert.
Berry.

Albert was drafted #15. wasn't a reach.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Just isnt possible again this year to move out.... So you take the biggest impact player available regardless of position with that pick, hell and the best impact player you can get with first 2nd round pick as well... Then load up on OL...


This team is so void of talent at EVERY Position... We dont have the luxury of trading down when we have nothing on this team to build with...

The problem is that when you are picking that high, and when you have so many needs.... GM's tend to play it safe.

Even this scout seems to be touting an RT with a top five pick. WTF?

We saw it last year with Jackson. I was okay with it last year. I still liked Curry, Crabtree, or even Orapko more... BUT, I understood the questions and concerns about each. And, to me, an ILB is as much of a reach at a top five pick as a five tech. So, I get last year's pick.

But, if they go tackle this year top five when no one is worth it... I may lose my mind.

[notorious]

I may lose my mind.



Don't worry, some of us have already crossed that point a long time ago.

It's really not as bad as you think.......

[beer bacon]

Suh if he is there and Berry if Suh is gone. Then some big fatty to play NT in the second round.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Don't worry, some of us have already crossed that point a long time ago.

It's really not as bad as you think.......

That's assuming I ever had one to begin with.... which many on here would argue against.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Suh if he is there and Berry if Suh is gone. Then some big fatty to play NT in the second round.

Suh is great, but he doesn't fit this defense.

If the Chiefs are going back to the 4-3, fine, but then we wasted a year teaching guys like Dorsey and Hali to play the 3-4.

Oh, and we wasted a pick on Tyson Jackson.

[notorious]

Suh if he is there and Berry if Suh is gone. Then some big fatty to play NT in the second round.

If we switch to a 4-3 Suh would be perfect. (Not going to happen :()


If you think we should plug him into the 3-4, you better take cover because the draft mafia is about to ambush.

I am not trying to be a bully by asking this, where would you put him?

[Chiefnj2]

Rule #1 of the NFL - if you don't have a franchise QB, draft one in the first.

Cassel hasn't improved much, if at all, as the season has progressed. If Clausen is available you take him. Hell, a lot of mocks still have Bradford going in the top 5, so I guess there is a chance at Clausen.

Rule #2 of the NFL draft - if you don't have a LOT take one. Albert is still disappointing a bit. Sadly, there doesn't look like there is a LOT worthy of a top 5 pick.

Rule #3 - get a playmaker at a position of need. You pick a prospect who produced in college consistently. Not a workout warrior, not a streaky player. A consistent player who loves playing the game.

[Fairplay]

Where do you find these rules at?

I want the whole list.

[Red Dawg]

Where do you find these rules at?

I want the whole list.

There are no rules, they are all taliking out of their ass's. Scott will take the best player at the position he feels we need the most help at. I doubt it will be Berry but who knows? I have been preaching to all on the planet that this team will suck until we start winning the battles in the trenches so my vote goes to a LARGE NT for the the 3-4 or pass/run blocker for Matt.


If we get these players in FA then draft Berry.

[beer bacon]

Arizona plays a a type of 3-4, and Dockett is a successful penetrator as a DE. Ratliff is 6-4 and 300 pounds. He specializes in getting into the backfield and causing mayhem rather than sucking up blockers. What is the reason why our style of 3-4 couldn't take advantage of a playermaker on the DL?

[Chiefnj2]

There are no rules, they are all taliking out of their ass's. Scott will take the best player at the position he feels we need the most help at. I doubt it will be Berry but who knows? I have been preaching to all on the planet that this team will suck until we start winning the battles in the trenches so my vote goes to a LARGE NT for the the 3-4 or pass/run blocker for Matt.


If we get these players in FA then draft Berry.

How many first round QBs will be playing in the playoffs this year?

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Rule #1: You don't reach for a QB that isn't a franchise QB, just to say you have drafted one.

Rule #2: Refer to rule #1, as the draft approaches as fans and teams desperate for a QB rationalize good, but not great, qb's as being worth a top five pick.

[Reerun_KC]

Rule #1: You don't reach for a QB that isn't a franchise QB, just to say you have drafted one.

Rule #2: Refer to rule #1, as the draft approaches as fans and teams desperate for a QB rationalize good, but not great, qb's as being worth a top five pick.


:doh!:

[SenselessChiefsFan]

How many first round QBs will be playing in the playoffs this year?

I'll tell you next week. In the NFC, you have:

Brees- 2nd
Favre-2nd
Romo-Undrafted.
Warner-Undrafted.
McNabb-1st
Rodgers-1st.

In the AFC

Manning-1st
Palmer-1st
Brady-6th
Rivers-1st


Then, it could be several different QB's....so, I will let you know next week.

As it is, half of the QB's are from the first round.

Oddly, the first round QB's above have only one Super Bowl ring. The others have five.

[Chiefnj2]

I'll tell you next week. In the NFC, you have:

Brees- 2nd
Favre-2nd
Romo-Undrafted.
Warner-Undrafted.
McNabb-1st
Rodgers-1st.

In the AFC

Manning-1st
Palmer-1st
Brady-6th
Rivers-1st


Then, it could be several different QB's....so, I will let you know next week.

As it is, half of the QB's are from the first round.

Oddly, the first round QB's above have only one Super Bowl ring. The others have five.

If you think you can find the next Brady on the 2nd day - go for it. And Brees was the first pick of the 2nd round, so you are splitting hairs at this point. Teams that consistently reach the playoffs have first round QBs. Although he was put in an almost impossible situation, Cassel hasn't really stepped it up.

[notorious]

I'll tell you next week. In the NFC, you have:

Brees- 2nd
Favre-2nd
Romo-Undrafted.
Warner-Undrafted.
McNabb-1st
Rodgers-1st.

In the AFC

Manning-1st
Palmer-1st
Brady-6th
Rivers-1st


Then, it could be several different QB's....so, I will let you know next week.

As it is, half of the QB's are from the first round.

Oddly, the first round QB's above have only one Super Bowl ring. The others have five.

LOL Brady really skews the drafting curve.

How lucky was that draft pick?

[TEX]

You ever notice that teams that always seem to pick in the top of the draft seem to suck for a long time regardless...I mean the usual suspects are there again, including the Chiefs. I remember the Bengals being there forever before they got good. Maybe we took their place...:shake:

[BigCatDaddy]

Rule #1: You don't reach for a QB that isn't a franchise QB, just to say you have drafted one.

Rule #2: Refer to rule #1, as the draft approaches as fans and teams desperate for a QB rationalize good, but not great, qb's as being worth a top five pick.

Who was the last can't miss QB prospect in the draft? Elway?

[notorious]

Who was the last can't miss QB prospect in the draft? Elway?

Even Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf was a huge debate.

The best ever vs. the biggest bust ever.

[patteeu]

Trading down is ****ing retarded talk... Same shit every year! Who is going to give up everything to move into the top 5?

Think about what your saying before you run off with the trade down talk.. Please?

If the Rams were to take Suh, which is what a KMOX sports talk guy said he thinks they might do despite their need for a QB on Petro's show last week, Clausen could fall to the 3rd spot (because Detroit doesn't need a QB). In that scenario, there might be a trading partner who would be willing to move up to get the top QB in the draft. I'm not saying it's likely, I'm just saying it's possible.

[TRR]

Who was the last can't miss QB prospect in the draft? Elway?

Manning

I thought McNabb was about as sure as it gets as well.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BigCatDaddy]

Even Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf was a huge debate.

The best ever vs. the biggest bust ever.

Exactly.
Bledsoe and Myer.
McNabb was booed out of the building at #2.
McNair was coming form Alcorn State so he had quesion marks.

[TEX]

Well, with the Chiefs needing so much, I sure would not pick a WR at # 3. You build a team in the trenches. Get the lines solid and that provides you the chance to add skilled players. It also gives you a realistic way to evaluate the talent on hand. If you do it the other way, often times the so called "skilled" players don't look so skilled...Just my take.

[BigCatDaddy]

Manning

I thought McNabb was about as sure as it gets as well.
Posted via Mobile Device

Not really. 1/2 the GM's said Leaf was better.


What about the guys you thought were sure bets that never panned out :)

Like I said. McNabb was booed when he was drafted. Not a sign of a QB with sure fire expectations.

[BigRedChief]

Not really. 1/2 the GM's said Leaf was better.


What about the guys you thought were sure bets that never panned out :)

Like I said. McNabb was booed when he was drafted. Not a sign of a QB with sure fire expectations.yep, you have to go back to Elway to get a consenses top QB with a can't miss tag, that didn't miss. Both Manning and McNabb had their doubters.

[TRR]

Exactly.
Bledsoe and Myer.
McNabb was booed out of the building at #2.
McNair was coming form Alcorn State so he had quesion marks.

McNabb was booed only because they wanted Ricky Williams, not because of his ability. Manning started having doubters because after being the best QB in the nation for so long, people start to over-critique every mistake you make...

There will always be negatives on a player. That's just the media way.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mr. Arrowhead]

If this team passes on Eric Berry, then i about quit

[Rasputin]

If the Chiefs could develop Barry Richardson as our RT that would be a God send. I do think Barry Richardson has that abuility but need experience that is all. He played well against the Browns last week but I couldn't tell who was starting RT against Bengles.

[Chiefnj2]

And even though the Chargers missed with Leaf, they did the right thing by going back for a young QB - Brees and then even Rivers.

[Coogs]

If the Rams were to take Suh, which is what a KMOX sports talk guy said he thinks they might do despite their need for a QB on Petro's show last week, Clausen could fall to the 3rd spot (because Detroit doesn't need a QB). In that scenario, there might be a trading partner who would be willing to move up to get the top QB in the draft. I'm not saying it's likely, I'm just saying it's possible.

I could see this scenario unfolding as well. And if this does happen, I sure as hell hope we consider QB. Sure, our O-line has not been great this season. But there have been times when Cassel has had opportunities to make plays. And on those occasions he has made a play or two. But there have been far too many occasions when the opportunity for a big play has come up and that play has not been made. And yes, even the great QB's miss a play once in a while, but not at the rate Cassel does.

[HemiEd]

Well, with the Chiefs needing so much, I sure would not pick a WR at # 3. You build a team in the trenches. Get the lines solid and that provides you the chance to add skilled players. It also gives you a realistic way to evaluate the talent on hand. If you do it the other way, often times the so called "skilled" players don't look so skilled...Just my take.

OK, so you build a great line, that gets you back to mediocrity. So then, you are drafting in the middle 17th to 23rd, and the very special impact players are off the board by then.

Does this sound familiar? woo hooo, the definition of insanity, lets just keep doing it!

Get some fucking impact players now, please!

[BigCatDaddy]

McNabb was booed only because they wanted Ricky Williams, not because of his ability. Manning started having doubters because after being the best QB in the nation for so long, people start to over-critique every mistake you make...

There will always be negatives on a player. That's just the media way.
Posted via Mobile Device

McNabb was such a consensus can't miss pick that the Browns took Tim Couch ahead of him LMAO

NFL coaches and GM's want the best guy, they don't care to over-critque 1 guy and not the other. They break down game film the same way for both guys.

[BigChiefFan]

OK, so you build a great line, that gets you back to mediocrity. So then, you are drafting in the middle 17th to 23rd, and the very special impact players are off the board by then.

Does this sound familiar? woo hooo, the definition of insanity, lets just keep doing it!

Get some ****ing impact players now, please!Agreed. We can get some quality O-lineman in the later rounds. Playmakers should be the focus.

[MOhillbilly]

just say no to o-lineman & D-lineman in the 1st round.


How much bump & run have our corners played this year? Those days are all but over. Soft zones is what we all see almost every sunday,help over the top makes corners all that much better.
its a fact that both safety positions are more of a need than o-line & d-line. The game has evolved to the point where 'winning in the trenches' doesnt mean what it used to.

[the Talking Can]

Clausen or Berry



draft a LT and I'll become a Royals fan....

[BigCatDaddy]

The game has evolved to the point where 'winning in the trenches' doesnt mean what it used to.

Two words. Jerome Harrison.

[TEX]

just say no to o-lineman & D-lineman in the 1st round.


How much bump & run have our corners played this year? Those days are all but over. Soft zones is what we all see almost every sunday,help over the top makes corners all that much better.
its a fact that both safety positions are more of a need than o-line & d-line. The game has evolved to the point where 'winning in the trenches' doesnt mean what it used to.

The game has changed. You need strong lines even more now because of it.

[Chiefnj2]

Clausen or Berry



draft a LT and I'll become a Royals fan....

I'm with you on Clausen or Berry in the first. KC needs one of them.

[Coogs]

Clausen or Berry



draft a LT and I'll become a Royals fan....


:thumb:

[MOhillbilly]

The game has changed. You need strong lines even more now because of it.

no you dont. you can get a top ten D w/ average lineman if you have a strong backfield.

[BigRedChief]

I could see this scenario unfolding as well. And if this does happen, I sure as hell hope we consider QB. I don't foresee any scenerio that has us taking a QB at the #3 pick. We have so many holes to fill and the QB's that will be left there at #3 are not "must take" and "can't miss" prospects.

But, I'd still like to beat the Donks and move down in the draft order.

[TEX]

OK, so you build a great line, that gets you back to mediocrity. So then, you are drafting in the middle 17th to 23rd, and the very special impact players are off the board by then.

Does this sound familiar? woo hooo, the definition of insanity, lets just keep doing it!

Get some ****ing impact players now, please!

Nope. Just because it was done wrong last time does not mean the philosophy is wrong. You change any variable, (like the one dong said drafting) and your defination is blown out the window. You build the lines first. Get a core there - then get your "impact" players. They'll make more of an impact with solid lines. Simple really...

[MOhillbilly]

Two words. Jerome Harrison.


have you seen our safety play?

Me either.

[Coogs]

Here is our full order with 1 week to go...

3rd in the 1st
4th in the 2nd
16th in the 2nd (Atlanta)
3rd in the 3rd
4th in the 4th
3rd in the 5th
11th in the 5th (Miami)
15th in the 5th (Carolina)

http://www.gbnreport.com/weeklydraftorder.html

[DeezNutz]

Nope. Just because it was done wrong last time does not mean the philosophy is wrong. You change any variable, (like the one dong said drafting) and your defination is blown out the window. You build the lines first. Get a core there - then get your "impact" players. They'll make more of an impact with solid lines. Simple really...

No, no, no.

You get impact players whenever you can, and there is no better opportunity than when you're in the top 5.

You can build the lines using other resources (FA, lower-level draft picks, etc.)

We have a LT. And how many ****ing first-rounders do we have on the d-line? But, alas, we don't have a NT because of the worthless ****ing 34.

So get ready for Cody.

[TEX]

no you dont. you can get a top ten D w/ average lineman if you have a strong backfield.

Sure - you "can" get anything. I'm just saying get your "core" first.

[BigCatDaddy]

have you seen our safety play?

Me either.

LOL No, but you don't give up 300 yards to a RB because of safetys. Our DLine got manhandled by the browns.

[DeezNutz]

LOL No, but you don't give up 300 yards to a RB because of safetys. Our DLine got manhandled by the browns.

You get gashed in the run game when you're weak up the middle, and we are...from start to finish.

Build strong up the middle.

[MOhillbilly]

Sure - you "can" get anything. I'm just saying get your "core" first.

the middle is the core. safeties & ILB. how much better would our line look if we had players at these 4 positions?

[Coogs]

I don't foresee any scenerio that has us taking a QB at the #3 pick. We have so many holes to fill and the QB's that will be left there at #3 are not "must take" and "can't miss" prospects.


Let's say Suh goes to the Rams, and just for the hell of it say Berry goes to the Lions. I'm just curious as to what player you can name that is a "can't miss" prospect at any other position?

[TEX]

No, no, no.

You get impact players whenever you can, and there is no better opportunity than when you're in the top 5.

You can build the lines using other resources (FA, lower-level draft picks, etc.)

We have a LT. And how many ****ing first-rounders do we have on D? But, alas, we don't have a NT because of the worthless ****ing 34.

So get ready for Cody.

I understand your point. I just see things differently.

[Chiefnj2]

But, alas, we don't have a NT because of the worthless ****ing 34.



Stop complaining about the 34. KC didn't do squat for a decade on defense with a 43. Half the playoff teams use a 34. It's not the scheme, it's the players and then coaching.

[Coogs]

LOL No, but you don't give up 300 yards to a RB because of safetys. Our DLine got manhandled by the browns.

One of our D-linemen was missing that game.

[MOhillbilly]

LOL No, but you don't give up 300 yards to a RB because of safetys. Our DLine got manhandled by the browns.

what deeznuts said.

[sedated]

I'd love to see us get a WR, but we have so many needs, at this point you go BPA.

People who take the word "need" into a draft are the teams who end up with busts. The draft is about 3-7 years from now, not next year.

BPA, every round, every year.

[DeezNutz]

Stop complaining about the 34. KC didn't do squat for a decade on defense with a 43. Half the playoff teams use a 34. It's not the scheme, it's the players and then coaching.

We were building a decent core of talent for the 43, so that's my problem with the 34.

It was an asinine decision to force the switch.

[Buck]

As an outsider, you guys need to shore up your Offensive and Defensive Lines before you can worry about anything else.

[ModSocks]

Nope. Just because it was done wrong last time does not mean the philosophy is wrong. You change any variable, (like the one dong said drafting) and your defination is blown out the window. You build the lines first. Get a core there - then get your "impact" players. They'll make more of an impact with solid lines. Simple really...

We already have 2 1st rnd picks on the 3-man D-Line. We have a 1st round pick at LT on the O-Line and a pro bowl caliber LG.

This team lack play makers. Period. To argue otherwise is just.......blah

Look at what impact Jamal Charles had on the team and the O-line when he emerged. Look at the effect the absence of Bowe had on Cassel. Look at the effect Chamber had on both Cassel and Bowe, hell and possibly even Charles.

Play makers make plays. We need game changers. Guys who take over a game. Guys that opposing teams fear. Guys that alter another teams game plan. We have two on offense and one on defense. That isn't enough.

We need people out there with a swagger that will resonate through out the locker. Give this team a cocky, winning attittude. Guys you can depend on to make a play.

If we had more players like that, we wouldn't be losing 17-10.

Fuck the trenches. We have spent plenty of early draft picks in the trenches. Now it's time to get some difference makers.

[DeezNutz]

I understand your point. I just see things differently.

Fair enough, then.

[HemiEd]

Nope. Just because it was done wrong last time does not mean the philosophy is wrong. You change any variable, (like the one dong said drafting) and your defination is blown out the window. You build the lines first. Get a core there - then get your "impact" players. They'll make more of an impact with solid lines. Simple really...

I was on board with that line of thinking, for years and up until very recently. But you can pick up good, to great linemen 15th to 25th. You don't get the great impact players there so easily.

[TEX]

the middle is the core. safeties & ILB. how much better would our line look if we had players at these 4 positions?

I see it like this: How much better would your list look with a legit NT for the 3-4? I totally understand where you're coming from, but since we are running a 3-4, we need THE player to make it work. Get HIM and everything will be better.

[ModSocks]

No, no, no.

You get impact players whenever you can, and there is no better opportunity than when you're in the top 5.

You can build the lines using other resources (FA, lower-level draft picks, etc.)

We have a LT. And how many ****ing first-rounders do we have on the d-line? But, alas, we don't have a NT because of the worthless ****ing 34.

So get ready for Cody.

I agree with you, but fuck i hope they don't take Cody. Please, please find an NT in F/A so we can draft a like Berry. And if we reached for Bryant, i wouldn't be pissed. We have an obvious hole at WR, especially if we lose Chambers.

[Chiefnj2]

We already have 2 1st rnd picks on the 3-man D-Line. We have a 1st round pick at LT on the O-Line and a pro bowl caliber LG.

This team lack play makers. Period. To argue otherwise is just.......blah

Look at what impact Jamal Charles had on the team and the O-line when he emerged. Look at the effect the absence of Bowe had on Cassel. Look at the effect Chamber had on both Cassel and Bowe, hell and possibly even Charles.

Play makers make plays. We need game changers. Guys who take over a game. Guys that opposing teams fear. Guys that alter another teams game plan. We have two on offense and one on defense. That isn't enough.

We need people out there with a swagger that will resonate through out the locker. Give this team a cocky, winning attittude. Guys you can depend on to make a play.

If we had more players like that, we wouldn't be losing 17-10.

**** the trenches. We have spent plenty of early draft picks in the trenches. Now it's time to get some difference makers.

I was with you until: (a) the claim that the O line "emerged". They still suck. Not as putrid as the first 3/4 of the season, but they still aren't any good, and (b) the claim that Bowe and Chambers are playmakers. Again, better than bad does not mean they are playmakers.

[ModSocks]

I see it like this: How much better would your list look with a legit NT for the 3-4? I totally understand where you're coming from, but since we are running a 3-4, we need THE player to make it work. Get HIM and everything will be better.

I agree. We need a NT. But not with the #3 overall pick. Find one in F/A or in the later rounds. We need difference makers. Guys with "play Maker" in them.

[patteeu]

I could see this scenario unfolding as well. And if this does happen, I sure as hell hope we consider QB. Sure, our O-line has not been great this season. But there have been times when Cassel has had opportunities to make plays. And on those occasions he has made a play or two. But there have been far too many occasions when the opportunity for a big play has come up and that play has not been made. And yes, even the great QB's miss a play once in a while, but not at the rate Cassel does.

I agree that they should consider a QB in this scenario. If Clausen (or Bradford or anyone else) turns out to be a stud, it would be a shame to miss the opportunity. Nothing is more valuable than hitting on a franchise QB. But if they take a QB, he'd better be a stud because the draft position is going to brand him as the savior and there will be even more pressure on him to live up to it than there has been on Cassel.

[DeezNutz]

I see it like this: How much better would your list look with a legit NT for the 3-4? I totally understand where you're coming from, but since we are running a 3-4, we need THE player to make it work. Get HIM and everything will be better.

Then I think we should really considering taking Raji, since our brilliant GM is set on switching to the 34.

[Mr. Laz]

JFCwhat ... because he considered someone besides berry you are pissed?

[Mr. Laz]

Trading down is ****ing retarded talk... Same shit every year! Who is going to give up everything to move into the top 5?

Think about what your saying before you run off with the trade down talk.. Please?depends on whether we get a new CBA or not.

[Coogs]

As an outsider, you guys need to shore up your Offensive and Defensive Lines before you can worry about anything else.

You should know. Your team drafted playmakers nearly every year when you were at the top of the draft, and look at where it has got you guys... serious playoff/Super bowl contending team year after year. Must suck to be you guys and have passed up all of those linemen with your top 10 picks. ;)

[ModSocks]

I was with you until: (a) the claim that the O line "emerged". They still suck. Not as putrid as the first 3/4 of the season, but they still aren't any good, and (b) the claim that Bowe and Chambers are playmakers. Again, better than bad does not mean they are playmakers.

I never said the O-line emerged. I said, look at what effect JC had on the O-line when JC emerged.

And Chambers and Bowe do make plays. Bowe isn't a #1, i agree with that. He's a great #2 or low #1 IMHO. And Chambers isn't a guy we can build around, but he did open shit up for Bowe.

[BigCatDaddy]

what deeznuts said.

Right, so the game is won and loss in the trenches then.

[ModSocks]

You should know. Your team drafted playmakers nearly every year when you were at the top of the draft, and look at where it has got you guys... serious playoff/Super bowl contending team year after year. Must suck to be you guys and have passed up all of those linemen with your top 10 picks. ;)

Exactly. Didn't some donkey fan come in last week and try to spew us that same shit.

[TEX]

I was on board with that line of thinking, for years and up until very recently. But you can pick up good, to great linemen 15th to 25th. You don't get the great impact players there so easily.

I totally understand. Perhaps I'm not clear. I agree with your take on drafting said "impact" player early, but only if he's a true game-changer. For example If you got a shot at drafting a Tomlinson, Peterson, Manning, Derrick Thomas etc. you do it. If not, you go the safe route if you have as many needs as the Chiefs. That's all I'm saying. I don't think there is a true game changer other than the DT from Oklahoma St. The worst thing the Chiefs could do is reach for said impact skilled player and miss. Shoot some of those types can't even play special teams.

[DeezNutz]

Right, so the game is won and loss in the trenches then.

So this is why I think we should seriously consider selecting nothing but o-linemen in the coming draft and implementing the 3 LT option wing.

[TEX]

Then I think we should really considering taking Raji, since our brilliant GM is set on switching to the 34.

That's what I don't understand about Pioli. THE guy was there last year and we passed...:shake:

[DeezNutz]

That's what I don't understand about Pioli. THE guy was there last year and we passed...:shake:

Have you seen GoChiefs' signature?

[ModSocks]

Right, so the game is won and loss in the trenches then.

We need a NT, no doubt about that. But we can develop what young talent we have on O-Line. We have a lot of young guys there with potential.

But we hardly have any difference makers. That's the problem. If we have play makers, then we score more then 10 pnts a damn game. Berry would do wonders for our D. How much closer to the LOS could our CB's play with legit S? How many big plays over the top do we reduce with strong play at S?

Lets not forget who is in our division either. SD abuses us in the passing game. Oakland has blazing fast WRs. The Donkeys have a great pair in Marshall and Royal. those teams can abuse us over the top thanks to our poor safety play.

[BigCatDaddy]

So this is why I think we should seriously consider selecting nothing but o-linemen in the coming draft and implementing the 3 LT option wing.

I didn't say to draft a lineman. HIllbilly said that the winning in the trenches is not that important anymore. I was just showing an example of why I disagree.

I say you draft a QB, preferably Bradford, but it's a crap shoot when taking a QB so you take him or Clausen if they are there. I can see MAYBE Bryant. That just seems to high to take a shot on a safety like Berry that is over rated, very good, but still over rated.

[ModSocks]

I totally understand. Perhaps I'm not clear. I agree with your take on drafting said "impact" player early, but only if he's a true game-changer. For example If you got a shot at drafting a Tomlinson, Peterson, Manning, Derrick Thomas etc. you do it. If not, you go the safe route if you have as many needs as the Chiefs. That's all I'm saying. I don't think there is a true game changer other than the DT from Oklahoma St. The worst thing the Chiefs could do is reach for said impact skilled player and miss. Shoot some of those types can't even play special teams.

You don't think Berry is a game changer? He is touted as an Ed Reed type. Ed Reed isn't a game Changer?

In a division that we have to play SD twice a year, and Oaklands speedy wide outs twice a year, you wouldn't want to have a rangy-play maker at Safety?

Yeah, our CB's are good, but they lack speed. A fast S could change a lot of things for this D.

[bevischief]

LOL No, but you don't give up 300 yards to a RB because of safetys. Our DLine got manhandled by the browns.

Because we don't have a 3-4 NT yet.

[Ralphy Boy]

Honestly, who gives a shit anymore about position reaches. Berry is a special, special player. The Chiefs threw the word reach out the window when they gave 30 mill guaranteed to a 5-tech DE.

Ding ding ding.

[DeezNutz]

I didn't say to draft a lineman. HIllbilly said that the winning in the trenches is not that important anymore. I was just showing an example of why I disagree.

I say you draft a QB, preferably Bradford, but it's a crap shoot when taking a QB so you take him or Clausen if they are there. I can see MAYBE Bryant. That just seems to high to take a shot on a safety like Berry that is over rated, very good, but still over rated.

Bradford is too small. We already have Thigpen II, so there's no need to get Croyle II.

[MOhillbilly]

i gaurentee if this club had better ILB & safeties the D-line wouldnt look like reaches or busts.

[ModSocks]

i gaurentee if this club had better ILB & safeties the D-line wouldnt look like reaches or busts.

I agree. Same way Charles made the O-line look better. I know that the lines make play makers look better, but play makers also make the lines look better.

The colts O-line looked like ass when Painter came in.

[Bill Lundberg]

Usually a lot of fiber.

Taco Bell or Taco Tico usually does the trick for me.


ROFLROFLROFLROFL

[the Talking Can]

Here is our full order with 1 week to go...

3rd in the 1st
4th in the 2nd
16th in the 2nd (Atlanta)
3rd in the 3rd
4th in the 4th
3rd in the 5th
11th in the 5th (Miami)
15th in the 5th (Carolina)

http://www.gbnreport.com/weeklydraftorder.html

3 in the top 50

we have to get this right...unless one's a QB, all should be/be eventual starters next year

3 picks in te 5th is interesting too, some might expect a draft guru to make hay there...we could also afford to take some risks on players with "issues"....

[BigCatDaddy]

Bradford is too small. We already have Thigpen II, so there's no need to get Croyle II.

6'4 225 is not small.

[BigChiefFan]

Bradford is too small. We already have Thigpen II, so there's no need to get Croyle II.Bradford is bigger than Clausen.

[DeezNutz]

6'5" 213 is too small.

No chance Bradford is 225. The hit he took against BYU is routine.

[DeezNutz]

Bradford is bigger than Clausen.

Height, yes. Weight, no.

[BigCatDaddy]

6'5" 213 is too small.

No chance Bradford is 225. The hit he took against BYU is routine.

Having a LB land on top of you when you hit shoulder first is not routine. The only question with him is how does he recover from it.

[the Talking Can]

i gaurentee if this club had better ILB & safeties the D-line wouldnt look like reaches or busts.


couldn't agree more

our lbs are awful, not a one can stop the run...

so many times the dl does it job, only to watch a lb flail at a rb in the gap and shazaam a huge run....

and this draft is rich in lbs....

we need lbs and a safety more than a NT...

[BigCatDaddy]

6'5" 213 is too small.

No chance Bradford is 225. The hit he took against BYU is routine.

Where did you get those numbers?

ESPN has both of them at 223 and Bradford at 6'4 and Clausen at 6'3.

Either way they should have a year to hold a clip board behind Cassell and mature.

[ModSocks]

couldn't agree more

our lbs are awful, not a one can stop the run...

so many times the dl does it job, only to watch a lb flail at a rb in the gap and shazaam a huge run....

and this draft is rich in lbs....

we need lbs and a safety more than a NT...

Yep. We need a pair of ILB's bad. Im hoping they get them in the 2nd. Both of them. Mays would make for decent depth. We have a team full of good 2nd/3rd stringers. We need starters at 3 LB spots and Safety.

Here's to hopping we can buy a NT

[DaneMcCloud]

There are no rules, they are all taliking out of their ass's. Scott will take the best player at the position he feels we need the most help at. I doubt it will be Berry but who knows? I have been preaching to all on the planet that this team will suck until we start winning the battles in the trenches so my vote goes to a LARGE NT for the the 3-4 or pass/run blocker for Matt.


If we get these players in FA then draft Berry.

:facepalm:

There WILL be no free agency.

And "Scott" has licked ass in acquiring young talent (or any talent for that matter).

[DaneMcCloud]

I'll tell you next week. In the NFC, you have:

Brees- 2nd
Favre-2nd
Romo-Undrafted.
Warner-Undrafted.
McNabb-1st
Rodgers-1st.

In the AFC

Manning-1st
Palmer-1st
Brady-6th
Rivers-1st


Then, it could be several different QB's....so, I will let you know next week.

As it is, half of the QB's are from the first round.

Oddly, the first round QB's above have only one Super Bowl ring. The others have five.

Favre was traded for a first and Brees was taken 32nd overall, making him a first rounder.

Warner and Brady are HOFers and would be the first overall pick if the draft had been held again.

Your argument carries no weight.

[DaneMcCloud]

Who was the last can't miss QB prospect in the draft? Elway?

Peyton Manning

Eli Manning

Both have already won Super Bowls.

[BigCatDaddy]

Peyton Manning

Eli Manning

Both have already won Super Bowls.

We have already went over the Peyton/Leaf issue and I wouldn't call Eli can't miss, especially coming out of college. I also don't think winning a superbowl validates your career as a great QB.

[HemiEd]

I totally understand. Perhaps I'm not clear. I agree with your take on drafting said "impact" player early, but only if he's a true game-changer. For example If you got a shot at drafting a Tomlinson, Peterson, Manning, Derrick Thomas etc. you do it. If not, you go the safe route if you have as many needs as the Chiefs. That's all I'm saying. I don't think there is a true game changer other than the DT from Oklahoma St. The worst thing the Chiefs could do is reach for said impact skilled player and miss. Shoot some of those types can't even play special teams.

Ok, we pretty much agree then. But I don't think they are ever going to hit any home runs, unless they take some chances.

[MMXcalibur]

I'm really hoping we can get Berry. A defensive backfield of Flowers, Carr and Berry is awesome to think about........

[Demonpenz]

I love that the chiefs have missed so hard on draft picks just on their playing ability, we are due now to CHOOSE THE CORRECT PLAYMAKER, but lose them DUE TO INJURY, like some other teams.

[Demonpenz]

We have already went over the Peyton/Leaf issue and I wouldn't call Eli can't miss, especially coming out of college. I also don't think winning a superbowl validates your career as a great QB.

the point of the game is not to be great at qb, but to win a superbowl

[DaneMcCloud]

Even Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf was a huge debate.

The best ever vs. the biggest bust ever.

It was only a debate in the media.

Bill Polian knows a little about drafting Super Bowl QB's, having drafted Him Kelly, Kerry Collins and Peyton Manning.

No way was he EVER going to draft Ryan Leaf first overall.

Bobby Beathard on the other hand.

LMAO

The same guy that gave up a #2 AND a #1 for Mikhael Ricks?

I sure wish he were still the GM in San Diego...

[DaneMcCloud]

We have already went over the Peyton/Leaf issue and I wouldn't call Eli can't miss, especially coming out of college. I also don't think winning a superbowl validates your career as a great QB.

Then you're the only one.

The guy went number one overall and won a Super Bowl in his 4th season.

What the fuck else do you want?

JFC.

[Ralphy Boy]

We already have 2 1st rnd picks on the 3-man D-Line. We have a 1st round pick at LT on the O-Line and a pro bowl caliber LG.

This team lack play makers. Period. To argue otherwise is just.......blah

Look at what impact Jamal Charles had on the team and the O-line when he emerged. Look at the effect the absence of Bowe had on Cassel. Look at the effect Chamber had on both Cassel and Bowe, hell and possibly even Charles.

Play makers make plays. We need game changers. Guys who take over a game. Guys that opposing teams fear. Guys that alter another teams game plan. We have two on offense and one on defense. That isn't enough.

We need people out there with a swagger that will resonate through out the locker. Give this team a cocky, winning attittude. Guys you can depend on to make a play.

If we had more players like that, we wouldn't be losing 17-10.

**** the trenches. We have spent plenty of early draft picks in the trenches. Now it's time to get some difference makers.

This. We have not had a game-changing playmaker on defense since DT and offense since Priest. Charles might be one but our defense desperately needs one.

There are those certain players that make an entire defense better just by being on the field. I'm talking about the rare players you all know: Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Lawrence Taylor, Michael strahan. Guys who changed the game and drew so much attention that opposing teams had to do more than just "know where they are". They had to game plan for them.

Suh is that type of player on the line, but we probably won't have a shot at him and wouldn't take him if we did. Berry is, by all accounts, the same type of player at a position we are actually likely to spend the pick on.

[DaneMcCloud]

Exactly.
Bledsoe and Myer.
McNabb was booed out of the building at #2.
McNair was coming form Alcorn State so he had quesion marks.

Well, Philly fans were fucking stupid for wanting Ricky Williams over McNabb.

PERIOD.

[DaneMcCloud]

McNabb was such a consensus can't miss pick that the Browns took Tim Couch ahead of him LMAO

NFL coaches and GM's want the best guy, they don't care to over-critque 1 guy and not the other. They break down game film the same way for both guys.

Tim Couch was a big strong armed QB. Look at his numbers. He played for an expansion franchise for a coach that had absolutely no business as a head coach.

Injuries killed his career. Not talent.

[DaneMcCloud]

If the Chiefs could develop Barry Richardson as our RT that would be a God send. I do think Barry Richardson has that abuility but need experience that is all. He played well against the Browns last week but I couldn't tell who was starting RT against Bengles.

In typical Todd Haley fashion, he went back to the previous player in O'Callaghan because he was healthy.

Richardson is the superior player. But Haley can't or won't see it.

[DaneMcCloud]

This. We have not had a game-changing playmaker on defense since DT and offense since Priest. Charles might be one but our defense desperately needs one.

There are those certain players that make an entire defense better just by being on the field. I'm talking about the rare players you all know: Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Lawrence Taylor, Michael strahan. Guys who changed the game and drew so much attention that opposing teams had to do more than just "know where they are". They had to game plan for them.

Suh is that type of player on the line, but we probably won't have a shot at him and wouldn't take him if we did. Berry is, by all accounts, the same type of player at a position we are actually likely to spend the pick on.

Really?

Jared Allen isn't a game changing playmaker on defense?

Color me fucked.

[DaneMcCloud]

just say no to o-lineman & D-lineman in the 1st round.


How much bump & run have our corners played this year? Those days are all but over. Soft zones is what we all see almost every sunday,help over the top makes corners all that much better.
its a fact that both safety positions are more of a need than o-line & d-line. The game has evolved to the point where 'winning in the trenches' doesnt mean what it used to.

THIS.

Learn it.

Know it.

Live it.

[RINGLEADER]

No way is any O-lineman in this draft worth the #3 pick. We suck and need major help on the o-line but overpaying and reaching isn't going to make us better in the long run.

The Ringleader Plan:

FA to address LT, NT, and/or WR
Draft to address RT, Safety, both lines

[DaneMcCloud]

LOL No, but you don't give up 300 yards to a RB because of safetys. Our DLine got manhandled by the browns.

That's because Dorsey was out. Cleveland ran over Hali all day long.

Notice how that didn't happen against the Bengals?

[notorious]

The Ringleader Plan:

FA to address LT, NT, and/or WR
Draft to address RT, Safety, both lines

Too bad this offseason sucks for ANY FA availability. The rules have changed right when we need them to stay the same. :(

[MOhillbilly]

Really?

Jared Allen isn't a game changing playmaker on defense?

Color me ****ed.

this is my main gripe with this franchise over the past 10 years.
To trade players & picks away year after year to 'win now' has fuckin killed us.
We have had players in KC who would be massive upgrades over whats been on the field this season. Not saying all those players are great just an observation on how low this club has sunk.... add to this the possibilities of draft picks traded away for vets and coaches who are no longer with the club...well, if you follow the KC club you have a right to be really pissed off...

[BigCatDaddy]

Then you're the only one.

The guy went number one overall and won a Super Bowl in his 4th season.

What the **** else do you want?

JFC.


I'm not saying he is a bad QB, he just wasn't a can't miss coming prospect out of school. If his last name wasn't Manning then he probably wouldn't have even been taken that high. If you want to judge QB's by SB's then he is on par with Trent Dilfer. Most people actually thought Rivers was the better QB coming out and it turns out they were right.

[MOhillbilly]

Too bad this offseason sucks for ANY FA availability. The rules have changed right when we need them to stay the same. :(

not if the FO doesnt fuck around in the draft. The season was over week one. The powers that be have had plenty of time to do there home work.
No excuses!

[notorious]

not if the FO doesnt **** around in the draft. The season was over week one. The powers that be have had plenty of time to do there home work.
No excuses!

Yes they do need to do their homework, but with all of the problems the owners are having with each other has ****ed up the Cap and Bargaining agreement.

Rules have been in place to restrict FA movement this offseason. I do not know the exact rules, but you can only acquire a FA of equal value to one that you lose.

That will lead to a lot less flexiability in acquiring free agents, or even having them available.

The draft is a completely different monster. I am almost 100% sure that CP will implode on that fateful day.

[DaneMcCloud]

If you want to judge QB's by SB's then he is on par with Trent Dilfer.

Completely and utterly untrue.

Dilfer was at the end of his career with a record setting defense.

Manning was certainly responsible for many of their wins that season (and in seasons since).

[MOhillbilly]

Yes they do need to do their homework, but with all of the problems the owners are having with each other has ****ed up the Cap and Bargaining agreement.

Rules have been in place to restrict FA movement this offseason. I do not know the exact rules, but you can only acquire a FA of equal value to one that you lose.

That will lead to a lot less flexiability in acquiring free agents, or even having them available.

The draft is a completely different monster. I am almost 100% sure that CP will implode on that fateful day.

This place implodes every draft. this year will be no diffrent.
My point is the FO has had enough time to evaluate this team and its needs already, a blind man can see it.
Conversly the FO has had time to eveluate the prospects needed to fill said holes w/ the picks this club has.
I dont care about FA this year, as cheap as this club is it doesnt mean anything(FA) till after the new cba is agreed upon.

[BigCatDaddy]

Completely and utterly untrue.

Dilfer was at the end of his career with a record setting defense.

Manning was certainly responsible for many of their wins that season (and in seasons since).

Eli is better, I'm just stating you can't judge a QB because he won a SB like you tried to do earlier. That Giants defense was pretty damn good down the stretch as well and carried them to that superbowl. Anyways, the point was Eli was never a "can't miss QB prospect" and can't miss "QB" prospects are very very rare if there is such a creature.

[DWMeyer98]

It is certainly true that we have a bunch of personnel holes to fill. Lets look at these three players.

1. Dez Bryant--

He does have some size and good enough speed. He is also, in many aspects, a world class butt-hole. Bringing a malcontent onto a roster that is in the state of rebuilding is usually a recipe for trouble. I personally do not see that he is as good or better than several other receivers available in the draft this year. It just does not make sense to me to take a WR at #3 when we could get one of equal or near equal promise in the second round.

2. Russel Okong--

Has some promise, but probably would not have been considered in the top 4 OT prospects in either the 2008 or 2009 drafts. If you draft a tackle at #3 you had better be really sure that he is a left tackle, because that is the salary that you are going to be paying him. Tackles are expensive and demand a salary near that of a QB. If Tackle were our only need, I'd probably say go for it.

I think that there will be some turnover in our offensive coaching staff during the offseason. Haley will likely find an O-coordinator that he can work with, and hopefully we will sort out some position coaching issues. Our receivers are not elite, but a WR coach hiring might eliminate some of these drops that have been killing us. The offensive line certainly needs some talent, but it also needs some time to develop as a unit.

#3 Eric Berry--

There is not much not to like about this guy. I've been stuck living in SEC country for a few years now, so I've seen a lot of his work. He is probably the best NFL prospect in the SEC this year. He has a reputation of being like a coach on the field and has a great football IQ. I like the fact that he has had a year playing under Monte Kiffin and feel like this will help his transition to the NFL. It just seems that he has the least risk and would be a starter from day one.

Another factor that should be considered is that Safeties are typically a lot cheaper than other positions. I know that we have cap room. (if there is a cap next season) I hope that we use some of that money and bring in a couple of meaningful free agents. Pioli was brought in for a reason and scouting veteran talent is part of that.

[DaneMcCloud]

Eli is better, I'm just stating you can't judge a QB because he won a SB like you tried to do earlier. That Giants defense was pretty damn good down the stretch as well and carried them to that superbowl. Anyways, the point was Eli was never a "can't miss QB prospect" and can't miss "QB" prospects are very very rare if there is such a creature.

Sorry, I fully disagree.

He wouldn't have been taken #1 overall by the Giants if he wasn't a "can't miss" prospect.

And they were right.

[DaWolf]

With a pick that high, you have to draft a playmaker. This team lacks playmakers. You see what Jamaal Charles has brought to this team, he makes up with his playmaking the lack of skill we have up front. We need playmakers on O and D badly...

[BigCatDaddy]

Sorry, I fully disagree.

He wouldn't have been taken #1 overall by the Giants if he wasn't a "can't miss" prospect.

And they were right.

Were they? If they redrafted today they would take Eli over Rivers and Ben?

[Micjones]

BPA in every round

You know I've never been a fan of the BPA philosophy EXCEPT for the very best teams in the NFL... But this might not be a bad idea anymore. There's such a dearth of talent on this team.

[MOhillbilly]

#3 Eric Berry--

There is not much not to like about this guy. I've been stuck living in SEC country for a few years now, so I've seen a lot of his work. He is probably the best NFL prospect in the SEC this year. He has a reputation of being like a coach on the field and has a great football IQ. I like the fact that he has had a year playing under Monte Kiffin and feel like this will help his transition to the NFL. It just seems that he has the least risk and would be a starter from day one.

Another factor that should be considered is that Safeties are typically a lot cheaper than other positions. I know that we have cap room. (if there is a cap next season) I hope that we use some of that money and bring in a couple of meaningful free agents. Pioli was brought in for a reason and scouting veteran talent is part of that.

Hes alittle lite in the ass for a super human nfl safety. At 203 i would question his ability in run support game in game out through an nfl season.

[DaWolf]

I'm not saying he is a bad QB, he just wasn't a can't miss coming prospect out of school. If his last name wasn't Manning then he probably wouldn't have even been taken that high. If you want to judge QB's by SB's then he is on par with Trent Dilfer. Most people actually thought Rivers was the better QB coming out and it turns out they were right.

It's funny that a team can go from drafting such a colossal bust in Ryan Leaf to three years later drafting Drew Brees and three years after that drafting Philip Rivers...

[MOhillbilly]

Were they? If they redrafted today they would take Eli over Rivers and Ben?

hindsight being what it is. W/ Elis pedigree alone id say its better than 50/50 eli would go over both.
JMO.

[DaneMcCloud]

Were they? If they redrafted today they would take Eli over Rivers and Ben?

I think they're all different and quite obviously, they've all three been "can't miss prospects".

At the time, I thought that Roesthisberger would be the most successful of the three and to date, that notion has been correct.

But I don't know that you could put Big Ben on the Giants and expect the same results. Pittsburgh would need a real offensive line to protect Manning and Rivers (Rivers has been by far the most injury plagued of the three).

But to compare Manning to Dilfer is ludicrous. If Manning were cut tomorrow, half the teams in the NFL would be lining up to sign him (if not more).

Dilfer had difficulty finding a job. Same with Brad Johnson.

[DaWolf]

Hes alittle lite in the ass for a super human nfl safety. At 203 i would question his ability in run support game in game out through an nfl season.

He's about the same height and weight as Reed and Polamalu...

[PhillyChiefFan]

This place implodes every draft. this year will be no diffrent.
My point is the FO has had enough time to evaluate this team and its needs already, a blind man can see it.
Conversly the FO has had time to eveluate the prospects needed to fill said holes w/ the picks this club has.
I dont care about FA this year, as cheap as this club is it doesnt mean anything(FA) till after the new cba is agreed upon.

I'll give Pioli/Haley this year's draft.

Pioli was hired Jan 13 and Haley was hired on Feb 6 that gave them less than 2 1/2 months to figure out the steps for building this team from the depths of stupidity.

If they put together a better coaching staff, have a decent draft, and attract a few upgrades through FA, I'll be pretty satisfied, however a tall order that may be.

Tyson Jackson was a reach of epic proportions last year, but KC has had a rash of bad drafts under Carl Peterson. I'm willing to give the guy(s) the benefit of the doubt. If they tank this draft and hire a Pendergast (assuming he's fired) clone...that is another story.

[DaneMcCloud]

Were they? If they redrafted today they would take Eli over Rivers and Ben?

The Giants? I assume they would.

His abilities at the time were a better match for the Giants than Rivers or Roesthisberger (although Rivers has progressed to the point over the past five years that IMO, he's surpassed Manning).

[BigCatDaddy]

I think they're all different and quite obviously, they've all three been "can't miss prospects".

At the time, I thought that Roesthisberger would be the most successful of the three and to date, that notion has been correct.

But I don't know that you could put Big Ben on the Giants and expect the same results. Pittsburgh would need a real offensive line to protect Manning and Rivers (Rivers has been by far the most injury plagued of the three).

But to compare Manning to Dilfer is ludicrous. If Manning were cut tomorrow, half the teams in the NFL would be lining up to sign him (if not more).

Dilfer had difficulty finding a job. Same with Brad Johnson.


Yes, these 3 players all hit to a certain degree, but how many QB's have had the same label as them and missed. Sure things The last guy you could look at and say I'm 99.9 this guy is the real deal is Elway. I will never have a problem with a team need a QB taking a guy in the top 5 even if they miss. You just don't know.

[MOhillbilly]

He's about the same height and weight as Reed and Polamalu...

both injured.

[DaneMcCloud]

If they put together a better coaching staff, have a decent draft, and attract a few upgrades through FA, I'll be pretty satisfied, however a tall order that may be.



That's a LOT of "If's".

There won't be any upgrades through free agency.

Much like the Giants in 2007, the Chiefs will need to hit on every single draft choice to have ANY success in 2010.

[BigCatDaddy]

The Giants? I assume they would.

His abilities at the time were a better match for the Giants than Rivers or Roesthisberger (although Rivers has progressed to the point over the past five years that IMO, he's surpassed Manning).

Both guys have surpassed Manning, Rivers significantly.

[MOhillbilly]

That's a LOT of "If's".

There won't be any upgrades through free agency.

Much like the Giants in 2007, the Chiefs will need to hit on every single draft choice to have ANY success in 2010.

:)That shit aint gonna happen. IMO it will take atleast 5 years to cultivate a club that has success. To much pissed away on the back end.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yes, these 3 players all hit to a certain degree, but how many QB's have had the same label as them and missed. Sure things The last guy you could look at and say I'm 99.9 this guy is the real deal is Elway. I will never have a problem with a team need a QB taking a guy in the top 5 even if they miss. You just don't know.

Again, I disagree.

Everyone knew with Jim Kelly. Everyone knew with Troy Aikman. Everyone knew with Peyton Manning. Teams were pretty damn certain with Eli Manning and there was talk of him being better than Peyton.

I think that scouting and drafting over the past decade has taken a lot of guesswork out of the equation in regards to QB's, especially if the team has a firm direction and a firm offensive philosophy in place.

The biggest problem with the Chiefs in that past decade (and past 40 years) is no consistent philosophy on either side of the ball.

The teams that are successful continually draft players that fit their philosophy, whether it's the Coryell Offense, the West Coast Offense, the Earhart-Perkins offense or a 4-3 defense or a 3-4 defense.

It starts with ownership, then the GM, then the players, THEN the coaching staff. If the owner, GM and players have all been drafted for a specific philosophy, you hire coaches that can continue to teach, add wrinkles and coordinate those philosophies.

The Chiefs change coaches, offenses and defenses all too often, leading to inconsistent play and poor football teams.

[BigRedChief]

The Ringleader Plan:

FA to address LT, NT, and/or WR
Draft to address RT, Safety, both lines
So Albert can't even start on your OL?

[CanadaKC]

we handed Pittsburgh Polamalu on a plate...if we let Berry slide by us...I think I'm going to :Lin: Okung is the safer pick...but we'd draft him waaaaay too high at #3..much like T. Jax last year...we need a leader/playmaker...a stud at his position...to turn this thing around...hey Pioli....TAKE THE BEST AVALAIBLE PLAYER!!!!!!!!

[MOhillbilly]

Again, I disagree.

Everyone knew with Jim Kelly. Everyone knew with Troy Aikman. Everyone knew with Peyton Manning. Teams were pretty damn certain with Eli Manning and there was talk of him being better than Peyton.

I think that scouting and drafting over the past decade has taken a lot of guesswork out of the equation in regards to QB's, especially if the team has a firm direction and a firm offensive philosophy in place.

The biggest problem with the Chiefs in that past decade (and past 40 years) is no consistent philosophy on either side of the ball.

The teams that are successful continually draft players that fit their philosophy, whether it's the Coryell Offense, the West Coast Offense, the Earhart-Perkins offense or a 4-3 defense or a 3-4 defense.

It starts with ownership, then the GM, then the players, THEN the coaching staff. If the owner, GM and players have all been drafted for a specific philosophy, you hire coaches that can continue to teach, add wrinkles and coordinate those philosophies.

The Chiefs change coaches, offenses and defenses all too often, leading to inconsistent play and poor football teams.


must spread rep.:clap:

[DaneMcCloud]

Both guys have surpassed Manning, Rivers significantly.

I don't think Roesthisberger is a Kevin Gilbride type pocket passer, so there's no way in the world the Giants would have selected him.

Rivers has surpassed him but by the same token, Rivers wasn't ready to lead the Giants to a Super Bowl victory in 2007.

Manning was the right guy for that team and the way it was built.

[Grid_Iron]

I am on the Berry bandwagon.

[L.A. Chieffan]

we have our fucking qb. our defense is fucking putrid. mays or berry.

[CanadaKC]

...most if not all all teams competing for the playoffs have a stud safety....Pitt, Balt., Arz., NO., and if Sanders was healthy...Ind. would be even more scary...

[DaWolf]

Again, I disagree.

Everyone knew with Jim Kelly. Everyone knew with Troy Aikman. Everyone knew with Peyton Manning. Teams were pretty damn certain with Eli Manning and there was talk of him being better than Peyton.

I think that scouting and drafting over the past decade has taken a lot of guesswork out of the equation in regards to QB's, especially if the team has a firm direction and a firm offensive philosophy in place.

The biggest problem with the Chiefs in that past decade (and past 40 years) is no consistent philosophy on either side of the ball.

The teams that are successful continually draft players that fit their philosophy, whether it's the Coryell Offense, the West Coast Offense, the Earhart-Perkins offense or a 4-3 defense or a 3-4 defense.

It starts with ownership, then the GM, then the players, THEN the coaching staff. If the owner, GM and players have all been drafted for a specific philosophy, you hire coaches that can continue to teach, add wrinkles and coordinate those philosophies.

The Chiefs change coaches, offenses and defenses all too often, leading to inconsistent play and poor football teams.

Excellent post...

[doomy3]

...most if not all all teams competing for the playoffs have a stud safety....Pitt, Balt., Arz., NO., and if Sanders was healthy...Ind. would be even more scary...

This is kind of funny, because the same could be said for nearly every single position on the field.

Most, if not all the teams competing for the playoffs have a stud RB

Most, if not all the teams competing for the playoffs have a stud QB

Most, if not all the teams competing for the playoffs have a stud WR

Most, if not all the teams competing for the playoffs have a stud TE

Most, if not all the teams competing for the playoffs have a stud LT

Most, if not all the teams competing for the playoffs have a stud pass rusher

Most, if not all the teams competing for the playoffs have a stud ILB

[CanadaKC]

yeah but..if you read my earlier post...S would be the position cause Berry is the BPA!!! no other position you just named warrants a pick at 3 more than him...IMO....

[Mr. Arrowhead]

Berry would be a berry good selection

[Chiefnj2]

I don't think Roesthisberger is a Kevin Gilbride type pocket passer, so there's no way in the world the Giants would have selected him.

.

Not true. Peter King had an article about what happened in the NYG's war room that year. They were ready to pull the trigger on a move that would let them draft Roethlisberger and then SD got on the phone. Part of the hang up was one team wanted Osi in a trade. They liked Ben's arm strength and thought he would be able to throw the ball in windy Giants stadium.

It's the first chapter of King's new book.

[doomy3]

yeah but..if you read my earlier post...S would be the position cause Berry is the BPA!!! no other position you just named warrants a pick at 3 more than him...IMO....

I'm on the Berry bandwagon for sure right now.

I just think it's funny when people try to make their argument stronger with statements like that.

When you look at the good teams, they have good players at every position.

[Chiefnj2]

Berry is a great prospect, but people seem to be hyping him so much that it will be very difficult for him to live up to expectations. He makes mistakes just like every other player.

[DWMeyer98]

Hes alittle lite in the ass for a super human nfl safety. At 203 i would question his ability in run support game in game out through an nfl season.

Considering that he knocked a 240 lb Tim Tebow out of a game I think that he'll manage.

[DaneMcCloud]

Not true. Peter King had an article about what happened in the NYG's war room that year. They were ready to pull the trigger on a move that would let them draft Roethlisberger and then SD got on the phone. Part of the hang up was one team wanted Osi in a trade. They liked Ben's arm strength and thought he would be able to throw the ball in windy Giants stadium.

It's the first chapter of King's new book.

Interesting info.

Is this in the new MMQB? I wonder if it's available for Kindle?

[Titty Meat]

Berry or Spiller

[DaneMcCloud]

Berry or Spiller

Spiller and Charles?

[Titty Meat]

Spiller and Charles?

This team still needs a RB, Charles isn't an everydown back. I'm tired of the Chiefs trying to pick for need instead of picking the best guy on the board. If Berry has been drafted Spiller is no doubt a play maker. Will the coaches find a way to use both? Thats another question.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

BPA in every round

Absofuckinglutely.

[Coogs]

In typical Todd Haley fashion, he went back to the previous player in O'Callaghan because he was healthy.

Richardson is the superior player. But Haley can't or won't see it.

This bafflles the crap out of me. :shrug:

[HotRoute]

Spiller might just be the bpa when we make our first selection

[DaneMcCloud]

This team still needs a RB, Charles isn't an everydown back. I'm tired of the Chiefs trying to pick for need instead of picking the best guy on the board. If Berry has been drafted Spiller is no doubt a play maker. Will the coaches find a way to use both? Thats another question.

I'm not denying Spiller's talent but I disagree with the notion that Charles isn't an every down back.

I think the Chiefs need a bruiser, a Marion Barber/Brandon Jacobs type guy to compliment Charles.

[Titty Meat]

I'm not denying Spiller's talent but I disagree with the notion that Charles isn't an every down back.

I think the Chiefs need a bruiser, a Marion Barber/Brandon Jacobs type guy to compliment Charles.

You'll need atleast 3 RB's so you can pick up a big back later or sign one in free agency. The Saints, Eagles, and Chargers don't really seem to have a big bruising RB either and all 3 are great offenses. Defenses would have a hard time matching up with Charles AND Spiller on the field plus it would limited the # of times Cassel has to throw down field which is a good thing.

[DaneMcCloud]

You'll need atleast 3 RB's so you can pick up a big back later or sign one in free agency. The Saints, Eagles, and Chargers don't really seem to have a big bruising RB either and all 3 are great offenses. Defenses would have a hard time matching up with Charles AND Spiller on the field plus it would limited the # of times Cassel has to throw down field which is a good thing.

The Saints, Eagles and Chargers are all pass-first teams.

The Chiefs currently have NO identity but I think we can all agree that a pass-first Chiefs team, with these receivers and QB would be a complete disaster.

Oh.

Wait...

[DWMeyer98]

I'd kind of like to see us bring in a true 3-4 DT during the offseason. As impressed as I am with Suh, we aren't going to be able to get him at #3 and he is more suited as a 4-3 DT. If by some miracle we could get to Terrence Cody from AL in the second round, I'd be a happy man. He is 360 lbs and yet fairly athletic. I think that what I like most about him is that he is violent at the point of attack and seems to enjoy taking on two blockers.

Is anyone else here curious as to what we are going to do with Glenn Dorsey? I'm not sold on him as a DE. I like his attitude and effort but he just kind of seems like a man without a position. He holds no trade value with his contract. I kind of wonder if we end up cutting him in the offseason since there will be no cap hit without a salary cap.

[Titty Meat]

The Saints, Eagles and Chargers are all pass-first teams.

The Chiefs currently have NO identity but I think we can all agree that a pass-first Chiefs team, with these receivers and QB would be a complete disaster.

Oh.

Wait...

Thats because you can't really run the Patriots or Cardinals offense with these players. Spiller certainly would help in that category. I watched a few Clemson games the guy is talented enough to line up as a slot WR which certainly would cause some nice matchups for the offense.

[DaneMcCloud]

Thats because you can't really run the Patriots or Cardinals offense with these players. Spiller certainly would help in that category. I watched a few Clemson games the guy is talented enough to line up as a slot WR which certainly would cause some nice matchups for the offense.

I'm with you: The guy is very talented.

But with Charles already on the roster, I think the Chiefs have much greater needs than at running back.

Of course, if they take another Tyson Jackson-type player, I would most certainly take Spiller any day of the week over that kind of player.

And quite honestly, I think Charles is a better running back than anyone on the Cardinals or Patriots roster.

[DWMeyer98]

I like Spiller and even Jahvid Best, but I'm not sure that they bring a whole lot that Charles does not already provide.

I'm sure that we will probably pick the BPA from LSU.

[HotRoute]

With lj gone and Kolby being so injury prone we will most likely take a rb somewhere in the draft

[DaneMcCloud]

With lj gone and Kolby being so injury prone we will most likely take a rb somewhere in the draft

Somewhere?

Yes.

#3 overall?

Nope.

[Frosty]

I like Spiller and even Jahvid Best, but I'm not sure that they bring a whole lot that Charles does not already provide.

I like Best, too. He hasn't declared for the draft yet, has he?

The problem is that he is under 200 lbs and they probably need a bigger back to complement Charles.

[HotRoute]

Why don't we get a guy for depth . If jc gets hurt I would like to have a guy come in for him that has similar if not more speed. Speed kills in the NFL. Big rb's get old too quick, and aren't really a necessity to be a good team , a playmaking speedster that can change the game with one handoff is more valuable

[Chiefnj2]

This bafflles the crap out of me. :shrug:

That should have been asked of Haley at the press conference instead of stupid things about firing himself or his opinion of Cassel when you know very well he won't say anything bad about him.

[DWMeyer98]

The plain fact is that we are going to suck until we are able to control the line of scrimmage. We fail to this on both sides of the ball right now. I'm not sure that we will be in a position to change this with the #3 pick.

I don't mind the BPA strategy within reason, but there has to be some limitation to what we do with that strategy. Taking a RB #3 when we already have one seems pretty foolish. Unless Suh is available at #3, we will have nobody interested in trading for our pick. So we can take an ok tackle, a very questionable WR, or a very solid safety. If I were a new GM, I'd take the safest pick and right now that would be Berry.

[CoMoChief]

With lj gone and Kolby being so injury prone we will most likely take a rb somewhere in the draft

4th or 5th rd
Montario Hardesty RB, Tennessee

[Chiefnj2]

Spiller is a hell of a return guy and a nice additional weapon if you have a solid team. I still don't think he's a top 10 pick. His backups average as many yards per carry as he does, so some of his success may be due to the system.

[DWMeyer98]

4th or 5th rd
Montario Hardesty RB, Tennessee

Not a bad name to throw out there at all.

[MOhillbilly]

Considering that he knocked a 240 lb Tim Tebow out of a game I think that he'll manage.

Thats all good. NFL is full of big RB/TE/QBs, college doesnt mean shit. The longevity of a 203 # safety in the NFL game does.

[HotRoute]

Hardesty wasn't that good, he would be available later than 4 or 5 round

[Dave Lane]

What if Suh and Berry are both available because the Lions take Dez (hey he is a WR) then which way do you go?

[CoMoChief]

I got the perfect mother****ing draft EVARRRRRRRR!!!!!!

1. SS Eric Berry, Tennessee
2. MLB Brandon Spikes, Florida
2. OLB Eric Norwood, S.Carolina
3. WR Mardy Gilyard, Cincinnati
4. WR Denario Alexander, Mizzou
5. OL Chris Scott, Tennessee
5. RB Montario Hardesty, Tennessee
6. QB Max Hall, BYU
7. BPA

FA/TRADE
OG Logan Mankins
NT Vince Wilfork
OL Shawn Andrews (Has back problems but is recovering and Eagles will either release him or trade him for a low rd pick, only problem I think he has a huge contract)

Get Crennel and Weis in here and this team could do some damage.

[HotRoute]

What happened to all of the mays supporters? Isn't berry still questioning entering the draft?

[Bane]

What if Suh and Berry are both available because the Lions take Dez (hey he is a WR) then which way do you go?

They do like them 1st rd WR's don't they?ROFL

[Chiefnj2]

What happened to all of the mays supporters?


They watched him play.

[HotRoute]

But is berry even for sure going into the draft this year?

[chiefzilla1501]

I'm not denying Spiller's talent but I disagree with the notion that Charles isn't an every down back.

I think the Chiefs need a bruiser, a Marion Barber/Brandon Jacobs type guy to compliment Charles.

Finally something we agree on.

[DWMeyer98]

Thats all good. NFL is full of big RB/TE/QBs, college doesnt mean shit. The longevity of a 203 # safety in the NFL game does.

All taken from ESPN.com:

Ed Reed--5'11" 200lbs. Probably the best all around
Laron Landry--6' 210lbs. Hard hitter
Jairus Byrd--5'10" 200 lbs. Tied for NFL interceptions
Brian Dawkins--6' 210 lbs. Has survived 14 years at an elite level
Darren Sharper--6'2" 210 lbs 13 years in league
Troy Polamalu--5'10" 207 lbs. doesn't seem to be hampered by his size.

225 lbs safties are out there and also have success, but the idea that a 200 lb safety cannot survive is not accurate.

[Idahojim]

Free agency will dictate a lot of what happens in the draft. So most of this is just idle speculation. But it's still fun to speculate.

[DaneMcCloud]

Free agency will dictate a lot of what happens in the draft. So most of this is just idle speculation. But it's still fun to speculate.

There won't be any free-agency, Jim.

At least not as we've known it for the past 15 years.

There will be very few, if any, game-changing impact players available due to the expiration of the current CBA.

[DaneMcCloud]

Finally something we agree on.

You just don't know how happy I am to read this.

:rolleyes:

[MOhillbilly]

All taken from ESPN.com:

Ed Reed--5'11" 200lbs. Probably the best all around
Laron Landry--6' 210lbs. Hard hitter
Jairus Byrd--5'10" 200 lbs. Tied for NFL interceptions
Brian Dawkins--6' 210 lbs. Has survived 14 years at an elite level
Darren Sharper--6'2" 210 lbs 13 years in league
Troy Polamalu--5'10" 207 lbs. doesn't seem to be hampered by his size.

225 lbs safties are out there and also have success, but the idea that a 200 lb safety cannot survive is not accurate.

im not saying they cant play at an extremely high level hell b.bishop was like 5-9 195 and laid people OUT. im talking about a 203 # body in the backfield playing run support for 16+ games in the NFL without missing signifigant time due to injury year in & year out.
How many of the players listed havent missed a single game this year?

So for all the hype & intangibles if my finger was on the button this would be a major concern.

[Rasputin]

In typical Todd Haley fashion, he went back to the previous player in O'Callaghan because he was healthy.

Richardson is the superior player. But Haley can't or won't see it.

:cuss: stupid wtf we got better players on the bench but for what ever reason they don't get the opportunity to play and learn and get better. This really upsets me. The younger guys have more potential to get better and even coached up the right way but need valuable playing time so they can become successful in the NFL. It's like any job you learn more by doing than watching.

[Rasputin]

As for Cassel he is 27 this year gonna be 28 next year with two years of NFL experience. He has been sacked a ton of times partly becouse of the O-line and partly becouse of himself. Our O-line will get better and we probly will get better all the way around as a team but we wont be playoff form for at least two or three years if we are lucky. At that time Cassel will be 29-30 years old kind of up there in respect of age, there is going to be alot of expectations of Cassel to delever us the goods can he do it? Are we going to become an 8-8 team for a few years but are just a player or two away from the playoffs let alone Championships? In five years he will be 32 that is pushing the onvelope a bit Yea of course Bret Fravre Kurt Warner those guys are old and still doing it but they have alot more experience and are on much better teams than what the Chiefs may or may not have in 5 years.

I'm for BPA but we havn't won a SB in 40 years and imo it's becouse this franchise doesn't have the balls to draft a QB develop him and then spend time developing our own guys through the draft not just QB. We continue to get rehashed guys for a year or two then when they suck we do the same thing again.

[CrazyPhuD]

Most, if not all the teams competing for the playoffs have a stud RB


Sorry I can't agree with you here.

Let's count the playoff teams that are locked today.

AFC

Colts....no stud RB
Patriot...no stud RB
Chargers...no stud RB(LT isn't a stud anymore).
Bengals...Sorry while Cedric is good this year he is no stud.

NFC

Eagles....no stud RB
Cowgirls...no stud RB
Vikings....stud RB
Packers...kinda borderline but will call him stud for now.
Saints...no stud RB
Cardinals...no stud RB

So out of 10 teams we can define 2 of them as legit stud RBs.

The reality is RB is still one of the most replaceable and least valuable positions in the league. There is a reason they are the 3rd lowest paid position. Only kickers and Safetys are worse. RBs while getting alot of headlines aren't the game changers that we think they are. If you get a true game changer rare talent then they are worth it, but much like safetys. On average they just aren't worth that much.

[RedThat]

You know what most of these playoff teams have in common?

A GOOD defense. Something the Chiefs haven't had in a long time. Makes me sad.

[chiefzilla1501]

You know what most of these playoff teams have in common?

A GOOD defense. Something the Chiefs haven't had in a long time. Makes me sad.

I would really have no objection to loading up big time on defense in 2010, and just bringing in a few grinders at RB to control the ball. If we're building around Cassel, we're not going to be the Saints or Colts. So we might as well try to be the Ravens.

I know people might think otherwise, but I'd rather have a complete defense in 2010 to complement an incomplete offense than to be good enough on both sides of the ball.

[MOhillbilly]

I would really have no objection to loading up big time on defense in 2010, and just bringing in a few grinders at RB to control the ball. If we're building around Cassel, we're not going to be the Saints or Colts. So we might as well try to be the Ravens.

I know people might think otherwise, but I'd rather have a complete defense in 2010 to complement an incomplete offense than to be good enough on both sides of the ball.

not enough quality players available to fill the positions needed to be a complete defense in 2010. Couple this with what i consider a joke defensive coaching staff & this club is looking at a minimum 2012 for a serviceable D.
JMO.

[chiefzilla1501]

Sorry I can't agree with you here.

Let's count the playoff teams that are locked today.

AFC

Colts....no stud RB
Patriot...no stud RB
Chargers...no stud RB(LT isn't a stud anymore).
Bengals...Sorry while Cedric is good this year he is no stud.

NFC

Eagles....no stud RB
Cowgirls...no stud RB
Vikings....stud RB
Packers...kinda borderline but will call him stud for now.
Saints...no stud RB
Cardinals...no stud RB

So out of 10 teams we can define 2 of them as legit stud RBs.

The reality is RB is still one of the most replaceable and least valuable positions in the league. There is a reason they are the 3rd lowest paid position. Only kickers and Safetys are worse. RBs while getting alot of headlines aren't the game changers that we think they are. If you get a true game changer rare talent then they are worth it, but much like safetys. On average they just aren't worth that much.

Well, I think the evaluation is a little liberal, as I think the Eagles have terrific RBs as do the Saints. And I think you might be selling Marion Barber and Darren Sproles short. I think the more interesting note is how few of those teams depend on a lottery pick to be their go-to guy.

You can get very good RBs in the later rounds. We have our playmaker. If you surround him with a Brandon Jacobs grinder type and a later round multi-tool back like a Pierre Thomas type, suddenly you have an outstanding RB corps, you effectively limit Charles to the carries you think he needs to stay healthy, and you spent almost no money or draft value to get there.

[chiefzilla1501]

not enough quality players available to fill the positions needed to be a complete defense in 2010. Couple this with what i consider a joke defensive coaching staff & this club is looking at a minimum 2012 for a serviceable D.
JMO.

I disagree. Building a 3-4 doesn't require nearly the level of completeness to be complete (as dumb as that sounds). Look at Denver's equation. Bring in a good not great NT, have a stud ROLB, and a stud Safety. Those were really the three players they have that drive that defense. Surround those players with a great defensive mind and you have a competitive defense.

NOne of those are by any means easy to get. But it's only 3 players as opposed to the 10 players a lot of people think we need. I would still contend that your two ILBs and your Safety don't have to be outstanding, and you don't necessarily have to have a pro bowler at your LOLB position either.

[Mecca]

I'm not reading this entire thread, what all did I miss?

I bet it can be summed up in about 3 sentences.

[MOhillbilly]

I disagree. Building a 3-4 doesn't require nearly the level of completeness to be complete (as dumb as that sounds). Look at Denver's equation. Bring in a good not great NT, have a stud ROLB, and a stud Safety. Those were really the three players they have that drive that defense. Surround those players with a great defensive mind and you have a competitive defense.

NOne of those are by any means easy to get. But it's only 3 players as opposed to the 10 players a lot of people think we need. I would still contend that your two ILBs and your Safety don't have to be outstanding, and you don't necessarily have to have a pro bowler at your LOLB position either.

We pretty much agree on positions needed we just have a diffrent philosophy on personel types.
I say you need a monster at safety & a ILB who has a football IQ higher or as high as this clubs DC a guy who can get down and dirty when in comes to Back on Back in both run and coverage.
An antonio pierce type.
we lack a field general.

Not gonna get a nose tackle, true 2 gap tackles are a rare thing at any level of football.
Though you said 'loading up bigtime' and that made me think you were infavor of an entire overhaul of pretty much everyone but flowers and carr..

[Deberg_1990]

I wonder how much Bradford will drop coming off his injury?

[DeezNutz]

We pretty much agree on positions needed we just have a diffrent philosophy on personel types.
I say you need a monster at safety & a ILB who has a football IQ higher or as high as this clubs DC a guy who can get down and dirty when in comes to Back on Back in both run and coverage.
An antonio pierce type.
we lack a field general.

Not gonna get a nose tackle, true 2 gap tackles are a rare thing at any level of football.
Though you said 'loading up bigtime' and that made me think you were infavor of an entire overhaul of pretty much everyone but flowers and carr..

Well now you've just asked for the impossible.

[BigCatDaddy]

I wonder how much Bradford will drop coming off his injury?

Probably not far. Kiper has him as #5 on his big board and I think Mayock had him as the best player in the draft last year before he decided to stay in school. He doesn't get out of the top 10.

[Mecca]

I wonder how much Bradford will drop coming off his injury?

Probably not much, he's a QB in a weak QB year.

[BigCatDaddy]

Probably not much, he's a QB in a weak QB year.

Do you think it's a weak QB year? Most mocks or rankings I've seen have a ton of QB's going in the first 2 rounds this year, compared to years where someone like Quinn or Rogers slips into the end of the 1st round.

[Mecca]

Do you think it's a weak QB year? Most mocks or rankings I've seen have a ton of QB's going in the first 2 rounds this year, compared to years where someone like Quinn or Rogers slips into the end of the 1st round.

Quinn and Rodgers were never mocked to fall that far, mocks and reality aren't the same when people do mocks QB's are always put high regardless.

[MOhillbilly]

why berry over mays @ 3?

[Mecca]

Berry has ball skills that's what he has over Mays, Mays is the size speed athletic speciman guy.

Now if you believe SC's scheme limited Mays his upside is probably higher.

[MOhillbilly]

Well now you've just asked for the impossible.

alittle birdie told me pierce had a football IQ on par w/ many DCs and it killed that team when he went to the giants. Our DC is a tard so it shouldnt be umpossible.

[Chiefnj2]

why berry over mays @ 3?

Better ball skills, better in run support, better tackler.

[Mecca]

You're basically comparing this...

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To this

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RWroHILuG-I&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RWroHILuG-I&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Really just 2 totally different players.

[Mecca]

Better ball skills, better in run support, better tackler.

If anyone who ever said Mays doesn't wrap up is going to say Berry is a better tackler, I'm going to laugh at them because he does the same shit all the time that Mays does.

[patteeu]

As for Cassel he is 27 this year gonna be 28 next year with two years of NFL experience. He has been sacked a ton of times partly becouse of the O-line and partly becouse of himself. Our O-line will get better and we probly will get better all the way around as a team but we wont be playoff form for at least two or three years if we are lucky. At that time Cassel will be 29-30 years old kind of up there in respect of age, there is going to be alot of expectations of Cassel to delever us the goods can he do it? Are we going to become an 8-8 team for a few years but are just a player or two away from the playoffs let alone Championships? In five years he will be 32 that is pushing the onvelope a bit Yea of course Bret Fravre Kurt Warner those guys are old and still doing it but they have alot more experience and are on much better teams than what the Chiefs may or may not have in 5 years.

I'm for BPA but we havn't won a SB in 40 years and imo it's becouse this franchise doesn't have the balls to draft a QB develop him and then spend time developing our own guys through the draft not just QB. We continue to get rehashed guys for a year or two then when they suck we do the same thing again.

I don't think age is a big factor for Cassel. He hasn't had major injuries and as you point out he doesn't have a lot of miles on his body. At his position, he potentially has 6-8 good years left in him. The big questions are whether he has the potential we need and whether or not he'll reach that potential.

[patteeu]

why berry over mays @ 3?

Here's what a lifelong-Volunteer-fan friend of mine had to say about Berry.

:cuss: @ the last line.

Eric Berry has been a GREAT college player.

--- He is smart. He majored in pre-dentistry. Monte Kiffen said he picked up the defensive schemes as fast as any defensive back he has ever coached – tell him once, and he’s got it.

--- He reads the field very well. He’s regularly in the right place at the right time. I think that’s part of the reason UT played him in pseudo run support this year – they trusted him to make a quick enough decision to get back into coverage if he needed to do so.

--- He is a good tackler. He is a very sure tackler and has delivered some monster hits here. I think that his tackling skills have penalized him personally this year at UT – they’ve played him close to the line of scrimmage all season so he can provide run support, which has cut down on his chances to make highlights by picking off passes.

--- He seems to be very durable. Despite delivering big hits, he has had no injury problems at UT.

--- He is a very good open field runner. He never struck me as super fast (despite the 4.3 speed I’ve seen cited for him). But, he uses blocks well when he gets an interception.

--- He seems to have great character. He did two things this year that really struck me.

1) During the week when Tim Tebow got a concussion, one of UT’s players (Nick Reviesz) blew out a knew. On Berry’s facebook page (or Twitter or something like it – not sure), Berry posted a message asking people to pray for Nick and Tim Tebow. I thought it was cool that he would so keep in mind a key player on a rival team.

2) During the post-game interview after one of our losses this year, he reportedly said something like, “It was a hard loss for all of us. But, one of our defensive players was saved this week, and that’s more important.”

I think you can count on him to not get into trouble and to try to encourage others on the team to become better people.

My only question regarding him has been his speed. I was surprised to see his 40 speed listed as 4.3 – at times, he has seemed a step slow on the field. I’ve sometimes wondered if his ability to read the field helped him make plays in college that he might not be able to make in the pros when everyone is another step faster. Still, I would love to have a whole team of Eric Berry’s on my squad if I were a coach. He seems to be both a great athlete and a great person. He’s been my favorite player on UT’s squad since about the third week of his freshman season, and I’ll probably follow his career after he leaves UT like I’ve followed Peyton Manning’s career. If he comes to KC, I’ll expect you to invite me up to see a few games. (Still, I kind of hope he finds his way to a team where he’s not competing for “best player on the team” with the punter.)

[Ebolapox]

If you think you can find the next Brady on the 2nd day - go for it. And Brees was the first pick of the 2nd round, so you are splitting hairs at this point. Teams that consistently reach the playoffs have first round QBs. Although he was put in an almost impossible situation, Cassel hasn't really stepped it up.

technically, favre was ALSO a high second rounder (considering the first round wasn't 32 picks long in those days)--he was ALSO the 33rd overall pick.

which was negated when the packers traded a first for him in 1992.

[sedated]

To this

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Really just 2 totally different players.

In every one of those highlights, Mays seemed to be doing his best Bonecrusher impression - throwing a shoulder at someone and going for the big hit.

[Mr. Laz]

why berry over mays @ 3?
cuz mays sucks donkey ass

[Ralphy Boy]

Spiller is a hell of a return guy and a nice additional weapon if you have a solid team. I still don't think he's a top 10 pick. His backups average as many yards per carry as he does, so some of his success may be due to the system.

Reggie Bush 2.0?

I'm a big fan of Spiller and would have no problem drafting him to take some carries from JC and handle the returns, but its not going to happen.

[ModSocks]

In every one of those highlights, Mays seemed to be doing his best Bonecrusher impression - throwing a shoulder at someone and going for the big hit.

I was thinking the same thing. I wouldn't complain about getting either of them though. Mays is a talent and he has the attitude that we need on D.

[Ralphy Boy]

I would really have no objection to loading up big time on defense in 2010, and just bringing in a few grinders at RB to control the ball. If we're building around Cassel, we're not going to be the Saints or Colts. So we might as well try to be the Ravens.

I know people might think otherwise, but I'd rather have a complete defense in 2010 to complement an incomplete offense than to be good enough on both sides of the ball.

Yeah I agree with what you've said and I'll fill in the part you left out: ...as soon as we bring in a capable defensive coordinator.

Just looked and saw that Arizona is ranked #10 in scoring defense this year compared to #28 in 2008.

[MOhillbilly]

I was thinking the same thing. I wouldn't complain about getting either of them though. Mays is a talent and he has the attitude that we need on D.

i dont want another 'heavy' at safety. I would prefer a ballhawk who makes plays in both run support and coverage.

Looks like berry is my boy....i am officially on the berry band wagon.

edit-now on to ILB whos the best in the 2nd?

[ModSocks]

i dont want another 'heavy' at safety. I would prefer a ballhawk who makes plays in both run support and coverage.

Looks like berry is my boy....i am officially on the berry band wagon.

I agree. I would rather have Berry. I'd rather have a ball hawk than a heavy hitter. But, i wouldn't complain if we did get Mays. It's not like he's not a talented player.

[Mecca]

They're both outstanding prospects..

I like Laz chiming in, Laz thought Brian Cushing sucked too so there ya go.

[RJ]

Trading down is ****ing retarded talk... Same shit every year! Who is going to give up everything to move into the top 5?

Think about what your saying before you run off with the trade down talk.. Please?


So you think trading down is a bad idea?

:evil:

[KC kid]

I am just not impressed with Mays.

[MahiMike]

Right on. Week 17 and the draft talk has started in earnest. Must be time for the annual dream of a franchise QB. Only difference this year is we already have one. $63M means fuggetaboudit.

If Berry is the next Polamalu you have to take him. Although I'd find a place for Suh myself.

[rtmike]

Again, I disagree.

Everyone knew with Jim Kelly. Everyone knew with Troy Aikman. Everyone knew with Peyton Manning. Teams were pretty damn certain with Eli Manning and there was talk of him being better than Peyton.

I think that scouting and drafting over the past decade has taken a lot of guesswork out of the equation in regards to QB's, especially if the team has a firm direction and a firm offensive philosophy in place.

The biggest problem with the Chiefs in that past decade (and past 40 years) is no consistent philosophy on either side of the ball.

The teams that are successful continually draft players that fit their philosophy, whether it's the Coryell Offense, the West Coast Offense, the Earhart-Perkins offense or a 4-3 defense or a 3-4 defense.

It starts with ownership, then the GM, then the players, THEN the coaching staff. If the owner, GM and players have all been drafted for a specific philosophy, you hire coaches that can continue to teach, add wrinkles and coordinate those philosophies.

The Chiefs change coaches, offenses and defenses all too often, leading to inconsistent play and poor football teams.


So, so true. I don't have the knowledge most here do but I do know consistency is the key to building a franchise into winning cultures.
Perfect example is the Redskins & Jason Campbell. Including college that dude has had more OC than I can count. And he'll most likely be learning a new system next year, with Washington or whoever.

If they do select Berry or some other stud safety I hope he can stay healthy. It seems all the safeties that are worth a damn are injured every year.
(Troy "Hair", E. Reed, B. Sanders, that Giants safety)