View Full Version : Football Leach Fired
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 12:12 PM
per ESPN
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls09/news/story?id=4781981
CBSsportsline linked article as well:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/12724022
LUBBOCK, Texas -- Texas Tech has fired football coach Mike Leach.
The school handed a termination letter to Leach's attorney, Ted Liggett, on Wednesday just before the two sides were to appear in a Lubbock, Texas, courtroom for a hearing on the coach's suspension.
Liggett says the letter says Leach is "terminated with cause effective immediately."
Leach was suspended by the university on Monday while the school investigated allegations that he mistreated an injured player.
Receiver Adam James alleges Leach twice confined him to small, dark spaces during practice after the player was diagnosed with a concussion.
Texas Tech plays Michigan State on Saturday in the Alamo Bowl in San Antonio.
KCUnited
12-30-2009, 12:13 PM
Done before that $800,000 kicked in tomorrow.
BigCatDaddy
12-30-2009, 12:15 PM
Wow, Mangino and Leach both fired. Time to get the band back together Bob!
the Talking Can
12-30-2009, 12:17 PM
holy shit that was fast
why did they resign the guy when it is obvious they didn't like or want him?
mikeyis4dcats.
12-30-2009, 12:19 PM
http://dennis-dodd.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/19238949
HotRoute
12-30-2009, 12:19 PM
Leach or mangino in the nfl next year? Or both? Or neither?
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 12:20 PM
The only reason Texas Tech got good at football was because of him, and they fired him over $800,000 and some made up BS? Enjoy your fade back into football obscurity.
Sam Hall
12-30-2009, 12:20 PM
Hopefully this ends the Texas Tech problem that has been plaguing all our teams.
The only reason Texas Tech got good at football was because of him, and they fired him over $800,000 and some made up BS? Enjoy your fade back into football obscurity.
Yep...stupid move IMO.
Bugeater
12-30-2009, 12:21 PM
What a monumentally stupid move. Welcome back to irrelevancy.
Hopefully this ends the Texas Tech problem that has been plaguing all our teams.
Not ALL our teams :p
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 12:22 PM
http://dennis-dodd.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/19238949
Wow
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 12:23 PM
The only reason Texas Tech got good at football was because of him, and they fired him over $800,000 and some made up BS? Enjoy your fade back into football obscurity.
But don't they owe him $400K for each of the remaining 4 years left on his contract, or does that go away when "with cause" is added?
Extra Point
12-30-2009, 12:23 PM
How about Leach for OC next year?
milkman
12-30-2009, 12:25 PM
How about Leach for OC next year?
Can he coach anything but the spread?
I think he had better receivers.
Sam Hall
12-30-2009, 12:26 PM
Not ALL our teams :p
Mizzou had the good fortune of not playing them the past couple years.
Saulbadguy
12-30-2009, 12:26 PM
Bill Snyder and Bo Pelini can rest a bit easier tonight.
How about Leach for OC next year?
Only if he promises to lock Cassel up by himself in a dark closet.
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blaise
12-30-2009, 12:42 PM
I'm sure nobody will taunt Adam James around campus.
Mr. Laz
12-30-2009, 12:43 PM
why did they resign the guy when it is obvious they didn't like or want him?
this
Maybe he pulled a NFL player trick and turned into a gigantic asshole once he got paid.
blaise
12-30-2009, 12:46 PM
he probably pissed off some boosters at a function.
DrRyan
12-30-2009, 12:55 PM
http://dennis-dodd.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/19238949
Wow
My thoughts exactly after reading the lengthy email from Graham Harrell. It seems as though Leach was in the wrong for putting him in the electrical closet. After reading several of the emails it seems like cutting him and pulling his scholarship would have been the way to go.
In the end Leach is going to come out smelling like roses and signing a new contract. I would be very surprised if he is out of work very long.
He is already being talked about here in PHX as an option to replace Dennis Erickson at ASU. Right now it is just a radio guy or two, but I would not be surprised to see it pick up steam.
Archie F. Swin
12-30-2009, 12:57 PM
There's your OC....print 'em
Sure-Oz
12-30-2009, 01:49 PM
Craig James for HC!11
What college openings exist? It's not like he couldn't pick his next job among just about any opening. Too bad KU didn't wait on their hire. I can't image he'd hate staying in the Big 12 and kick TT's ass twice a year.
I'm jus hoping that TT doesn't offer the job to Sonny Dykes.
Gonzo
12-30-2009, 01:53 PM
Cincinatti hire a replacement yet?
vailpass
12-30-2009, 01:54 PM
I'm sure nobody will taunt Adam James around campus.
You think he'll stay at Tech? I wonder.
have a feeling there are more facts yet to come to the light of day here. This might get interesting or it might all go away with a settlement and a hush-deal.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 01:55 PM
You can't treat American citizens, especially college student athletes, like POW's and NOT expect to get fired.
Leach is a fucking dumbass.
It amazes me that TT hired Bobby Knight and fired Mike Leach. WTF?
Titty Meat
12-30-2009, 01:58 PM
Sweet Nebraska could never beat him
Hootie
12-30-2009, 02:00 PM
lets lock Craig James' kid in a closet!
Brilliant!
Sure-Oz
12-30-2009, 02:01 PM
The guy deserved to be fired for that, regardless how much of an idiot AJ is
38yrsfan
12-30-2009, 02:01 PM
And this is the same school that hired Bobby Knight .... :shake:
Chiefnj2
12-30-2009, 02:04 PM
Most of those letters submitted from coaches and former team members certainly paint James as a huge problem. I don't understand why they just didn't kick him off the team and take away his scholarship.
On the other hand, some of those letters may have upset the school administration even more because it talked about "punishing" players for a lack of effort. Not the best word to use. Way too similar to hazing.
In any case putting a kid in a darkened shed was pretty dumb.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 02:05 PM
It amazes me that TT hired Bobby Knight and fired Mike Leach. WTF?
And this is the same school that hired Bobby Knight .... :shake:
I wasn't aware that Bobby Knight stuck his players in dark locked rooms for hours on end while under guard.
Enlighten me.
Hootie
12-30-2009, 02:07 PM
I'm sure Adam James was a pampered little fuck...no question about that.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 02:07 PM
I wasn't aware that Bobby Knight stuck his players in dark locked rooms for hours on end while under guard.
Enlighten me.
Exactly. Whatever else Leach might have on his side is trumped by this one idiotic, inforgivable action.
Chiefnj2
12-30-2009, 02:08 PM
I wasn't aware that Bobby Knight stuck his players in dark locked rooms for hours on end while under guard.
Enlighten me.
Knight favored choking over mental abuse.
Extra Point
12-30-2009, 02:13 PM
I have a feeling there are more facts yet to come to the light of day here. This might get interesting or it might all go away with a settlement and a hush-deal.
Interesting plays on words:
Light of day: which you don't want to see with a concussion.
Hush-deal: NCAA "Death Penalty" SMU team, on which Craig James had played.
Leach is going to be a rich man after his lawyers feed on TT.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 02:15 PM
Knight favored choking over mental abuse.
Personally, I'd take that over mental abuse.
At least I can fight back if someone tries to punch or choke me.
Locked in a dark room under guard?
That is FUCKED UP.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 02:15 PM
Interesting plays on words:
Light of day: which you don't want to see with a concussion.
Hush-deal: NCAA "Death Penalty" SMU team, on which Craig James had played.
Leach is going to be a rich man after his lawyers feed on TT.
It is clear you are a Leach supporter.
If you think TT doesn't have access to attorney fire-power equal to or greater than Leach think again. These actions aren't taken by TT they are taken by the TT attorneys.
Leach may come out with some money but IMHO it will be less than the value of his contract including the $800k he was due tomorrow.
BigChiefFan
12-30-2009, 02:18 PM
Locked in a dark room under guard?
That is ****ED UP.
That was called detention, back in the day.:evil:
Damn, my team just got BAD quick.
stumppy
12-30-2009, 02:21 PM
You can't treat American citizens, especially college student athletes, like POW's and NOT expect to get fired.
Leach is a ****ing dumbass.
Yup, the prick brought this on himself. I haven't bothered reading much about the whole situation but from what I've seen/read he got what he deserved.
I'd hope if he tried something like that with one of my boys they would have told him to pack sand up his ass.
BigChiefFan
12-30-2009, 02:22 PM
What confuses me, is how can you fire someone over allegations? Seems to me, the investigation hasn't concluded, evidenced by..."while the school investigated allegations."
Mecca
12-30-2009, 02:23 PM
Let that be a lesson to everyone, don't lock people in electrical closets.
Titty Meat
12-30-2009, 02:24 PM
What confuses me, is how can you fire someone over allegations? Seems to me, the investigation hasn't concluded, evidenced by..."while the school investigated allegations."
Because they have to pay him 800k.
If the allegations are true it's pretty hard to believe how people stick up for Leech. Not only what he did was stupid it was also a crime.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 02:24 PM
That was called detention, back in the day.:evil:
Boy, I'm glad I wasn't around in those days.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 02:25 PM
Personally, I'd take that over mental abuse.
At least I can fight back if someone tries to punch or choke me.
Locked in a dark room under guard?
That is ****ED UP.
He wasn't locked in a room. He was told he had to stay in the room, which is right off the practice field, so he would be near the team while they practiced. He wasn't locked in the room. He was told if he left the room and left practice he would be suspended or kicked off the team. The reason the room was dark, I don't think it has been clarified how dark, was because James claimed to have light sensitivity issues, so he was told to go into the equipment room rather then stay out in the Texas sun. The guard was a graduate/training assistant.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 02:26 PM
Also, Craig James is a slimeball that got paid tens of thousands of dollars to play football at SMU. He was one of the reasons their entire program got the death penalty.
After the contract negotiations and contentious relationship he had with the school and the girlfriend comments earlier this year etc., this was always coming.
TT was just waiting for something else to happen so they could deliver the killshot.
Similar to Bobby Knight and IU...all they did was wait for something, anything to get rid of him and voila.
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blaise
12-30-2009, 02:28 PM
It's no problem. Kids will always fall over themselves to go to Lubbock, TX. Who wouldn't?
Just Passin' By
12-30-2009, 02:28 PM
He wasn't locked in a room. He was told he had to stay in the room, which is right off the practice field, so he would be near the team while they practiced. He wasn't locked in the room. He was told if he left the room and left practice he would be suspended or kicked off the team. The reason the room was dark, I don't think it has been clarified how dark, was because James claimed to have light sensitivity issues, so he was told to go into the equipment room rather then stay out in the Texas sun. The guard was a graduate/training assistant.
Have you got a link for this information?
I wasn't aware that Bobby Knight stuck his players in dark locked rooms for hours on end while under guard.
Enlighten me.
How are you possibly capable of pretending that there is no comparison possible between Bobby Knight and Mike Leach. Knight reportedly did all of the following in his career:
Punched and choked IU's Sports Information Director
Assaulted a police officer in PR
Fined for various game outbusts including throwing the chair, hitting a phone on the scorers table, pulling his team off the court duing a exhibition game
Told rape victims to "relax and enjoy it" on national TV
Kicked his own son (or his chair) during a game
Head-butted his own player
Choked his own player during a practice
Physically threatened his own AD
Phsically threatend and threw a potted plant at his own office assistant
Threw his own assistant coach out of his chair
Grabbed a random student shaking him for saying "what's up knight" or some such
Was restrained by police to keep him from going after a heckling fan (while at TT)
Fired a shotgun toward a hunter he was arguing with
Mike Leach is far from having the ugly record that Bob Knight had when he was hired at TT.
Because they have to pay him 800k.
If the allegations are true it's pretty hard to believe how people stick up for Leech. Not only what he did was stupid it was also a crime.
Locking someone in a closet is a crime? My brother should have gone to jail several years before he actually did. Stupid, yes, but a crime?
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beer bacon
12-30-2009, 02:30 PM
Have you got a link for this information?
I have read it from about ten thousand different sources over the last few days. I am not going to go to the trouble to dig it all up. A local news station even did a segment on these tiny "closets." That is online as well.
This looks a lot more like an easy excuse to do what the AD wanted to do last year. That's fine. But let's not make this into something so abhorrent (even in the worst possible scenario) that TT can't employ someone who has that history of behavior.
Mecca
12-30-2009, 02:31 PM
Locking someone in a closet is a crime? My brother should have gone to jail several years before he actually did. Stupid, yes, but a crime?
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A kid doing it to another kid is not remotely the same as a person who is an authority figure over you doing it to you.
Deberg_1990
12-30-2009, 02:32 PM
Also, Craig James is a slimeball that got paid tens of thousands of dollars to play football at SMU. He was one of the reasons their entire program got the death penalty.
The great white hope! :)
Titty Meat
12-30-2009, 02:32 PM
Locking someone in a closet is a crime? My brother should have gone to jail several years before he actually did. Stupid, yes, but a crime?
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You can't hold people aginst there will and plus wasn't he locked in for a few hours? That certainly is a crime.
RippedmyFlesh
12-30-2009, 02:33 PM
Leach is a dumb ass he should have just sent james to the film room to study during practice. Then no one would have complained and he would have kept him out of sunlight.
This looks a lot more like an easy excuse to do what the AD wanted to do last year. That's fine. But let's not make this into something so abhorrent (even in the worst possible scenario) that TT can't employ someone who has that history of behavior.
Why did they want him gone? He was winning more games than losing.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 02:36 PM
He wasn't locked in a room. He was told he had to stay in the room, which is right off the practice field, so he would be near the team while they practiced. He wasn't locked in the room. He was told if he left the room and left practice he would be suspended or kicked off the team. The reason the room was dark, I don't think it has been clarified how dark, was because James claimed to have light sensitivity issues, so he was told to go into the equipment room rather then stay out in the Texas sun. The guard was a graduate/training assistant.
Wow, are you related to Leach or something?
Talk about rationalizing.
:facepalm:
Hootie
12-30-2009, 02:41 PM
omg though, lets be honest...
it was a fucking equipiment room...or a closet...omg
he was locked in a dark room for 3 hours!?
oh geez, that's life threatening!
Hootie
12-30-2009, 02:41 PM
I would have laid down and taken a nap...
Leach is a dumb ass he should have just sent james to the film room to study during practice. Then no one would have complained and he would have kept him out of sunlight.
From what I've read (emails from players and coaches) Adam James is a whining primadona. My guess is that Leach had enough of what he thought was AJ's efforts to get special treatment, so rather than let him leave to go sit down and relax while the rest of the team was standing and praticing, he had did what was necessary to respond to the complain (get him out of the sun) but told him to stand in the room like all of his teammates were doing through the rest of practice.
That seems pretty likely and not very unreasonable. Unless there was a medical reason for him to not even be out there in the first place. Which it seems obviously to be untrue.
Titty Meat
12-30-2009, 02:42 PM
omg though, lets be honest...
it was a ****ing equipiment room...or a closet...omg
he was locked in a dark room for 3 hours!?
oh geez, that's life threatening!
He had a concussion you stupid fuck
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 02:44 PM
omg though, lets be honest...
it was a ****ing equipiment room...or a closet...omg
he was locked in a dark room for 3 hours!?
oh geez, that's life threatening!
He wasn't even physically locked in the room as far as I can tell. He was "isolated" in a dark room. Isolated in the sense that he was told he would be suspended or kicked off the team if he left the room while the team was practicing.
Why did they want him gone? He was winning more games than losing.
Apparently during last year's contract negotiations, Leach's agent went over the head of the University President and AD and emailed members of the board of reagents in an effort to gain leverage in the negotiations. Pissed people off and ultimately backfired.
http://www.doubletnation.com/2009/2/7/752291/the-saga-of-mike-leach-and
Hootie
12-30-2009, 02:47 PM
He had a concussion you stupid ****
and?
Pretty sure he wasn't told he couldn't sleep because of a mild concussion.
I'd nap the shit out of that dark room...use my pads as a pillow...beats the shit out of being scout team at practice.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 02:47 PM
He wasn't even physically locked in the room as far as I can tell. He was "isolated" in a dark room. Isolated in the sense that he was told he would be suspended or kicked off the team if he left the room while the team was practicing.
And this is acceptable treatment of a concussed individual? Leach has the service of a top-notch medical staff. He should have turned the athlete over to the medical staff instead of trying to make an example out of him. Instead it is Leach being made an example. I'll bet Leach won't try to make an example out of a concussed kid at his next job.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 02:47 PM
He wasn't even physically locked in the room as far as I can tell. He was "isolated" in a dark room. Isolated in the sense that he was told he would be suspended or kicked off the team if he left the room while the team was practicing.
AND it was guarded.
Why are you making light of this incident?
It's fucking bullshit and the coach deserved to be fired.
PERIOD.
You CANNOT having coaches on a university campus treating students in this manner.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 02:48 PM
And this is acceptable treatment of a concussed individual? Leach has the service of a top-notch medical staff. He should have turned the athlete over to the medical staff instead of trying to make an example out of him. Instead it is Leach being made an example. I'll bet Leach won't try to make an example out of a concussed kid at his next job.
Uhhh..
http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/122909/spo_540556326.shtml
Liggett said while James was secluded on two occasions, he was not treated inappropriately and had a doctor's statement attesting to that.
"There's much, much more than meets the eye,'' Liggett said. "The diagnosing doctor has signed a note stating that Adam James was in no way injured by the actions coach Leach took. In fact, he was better off in the building than he would have been outside."
Maybe the truth will come out eventually... but this seems to be a lot different than the Mangino situation. When the floodgates opened it seemed like all the past players spoke out against Mangino. In this situation you have one player alleging something against a coach, and most of the former players and coaches are backing the coach and talking about the player's past histrionics.
I also don't think this is even close to the worst thing that goes on in collegiate practices, in any sport. I'm not sure if it's even that big of a deal, but we don't know all the details. But that's a different discussion.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 02:49 PM
AND it was guarded.
Why are you making light of this incident?
It's ****ing bullshit and the coach deserved to be fired.
PERIOD.
You CANNOT having coaches on a university campus treating students in this manner.
Yeah, players attending practice is downright awful.
KCUnited
12-30-2009, 02:49 PM
and?
Pretty sure he wasn't told he couldn't sleep because of a mild concussion.
I'd nap the shit out of that dark room...use my pads as a pillow...beats the shit out of being scout team at practice.
According to an anonymous source he wasn't allowed to lean against anything or sit. At one point it was deemed the electrical closed was too loud so they took him to an office in the press box and removed all the furniture in the room so he couldn't sit. It is also reported by the same source that he was caught sitting on a cooler in the first closet and the coolers were removed so he couldn't sit. No link. It was reported on the radio as I drove in this morning.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 02:49 PM
I also don't think this is even close to the worst thing that goes on in collegiate practices, in any sport. I'm not sure if it's even that big of a deal, but we don't know all the details. But that's a different discussion.
Proof?
Hootie
12-30-2009, 02:50 PM
According to an anonymous source he wasn't allowed to lean against anything or sit. At one point it was deemed the electrical closed was too loud so they took him to an office in the press box and removed all the furniture in the room so he couldn't sit. It is also reported by the same source that he was caught sitting on a cooler in the first closet and the coolers were removed so he couldn't sit. No link. It was reported on the radio as I drove in this morning.
I'm pretty fucking sure if this guy wanted to sit, he could have sat...or if he wanted to leave, he could have left...
http://dennis-dodd.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/19238949
Wow. WTH are the Tech administrators thinking? After reading that, it seems pretty obvious what was the problem.
Chiefnj2
12-30-2009, 02:52 PM
and?
Pretty sure he wasn't told he couldn't sleep because of a mild concussion.
If the coach thought he had head trauma wherein there was a risk the student would slip into a coma if he fell asleep, then he should have immediately sent him to the hospital for observation.
jettio
12-30-2009, 02:52 PM
This sounds like a fool's paradise.
Apparently, Leach thought one of his players was soft and a malingerer and disgruntled about playing time with a "little league" meddling parent who played in the NFL and works for ESPN, and he figured the best thing to do would be to punish him for being a malingerer faking a concussion by giving him some kind of teach you a lesson stay in this room kinda nonsense.
That would seem kinda stupid considering how this NFL season and Tim Tebow have made concussion recovery one of the biggest topics of this football season.
Sugar-britches goes crying to mommy and daddy ESPN and then Leach admits that he was intending to teach a lesson but is too proud to figure out that the concussion issue makes his move a bad one.
Unless Leach figured that Sugar britches would instantaneously become a tough man once Leach taught him this one lesson, you would have to figure that Leach is the silliest fool in this fool's paradise.
Hootie
12-30-2009, 02:53 PM
Proof?
Have you ever fucking played football before? ROFL
I saw worse shit than this in JV football when I was a freshmen in high school...
I saw our crazy ass baseball coach (who doubled as the JV football coach) make a fatass offensive lineman run until he threw up (those were the guidelines) for jumping offsides...
God forbid they made this kid (a little bitch from the way it was painted) stand in a room for a few hours for being a whiny distraction...
It just so happens he's the kid of the "Great White Hope!"
KCUnited
12-30-2009, 02:53 PM
I'm pretty ****ing sure if this guy wanted to sit, he could have sat...or if he wanted to leave, he could have left...
He was allegedly told if he was found sitting or laying he would be kicked off the team, hence the guard. I don't know if any of it is true, just that an anonymous report was delivered to the media and reported on the air.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 02:54 PM
Uhhh..
http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/122909/spo_540556326.shtml
No. I said turn him over to the medical staff if you want him off the field then LEAVE HIM ALONE.
Not turn him over to the medical staff then act like a complete mental reject and stick the kid in a dark room under threat of retaliation should he wish to leave the room. Constructive kidnapping is not okay just because you called the doctor first.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 02:56 PM
Yeah, players attending practice is downright awful.
It is amazing how people will compromise their values to support a team.
There are two kinds of people in this discussion: those who can clearly see that Leach crossed the line and comitted a wrongful act and Texas Tech fans.
He had a concussion you stupid ****
Again, what I'd guess was happening was that he was angling to being asked to stand and watch practice with the team, which doesn't seem unreasonable. He then claimed the sun was bothering him (entirely possible) so the coach told him to go into a nearby room where the sunlight couldn't bother him, and continue to stand up like he would have had he been able to stay on the filed.
That's speculation, but seems pretty straightfoward and if true, perfectly reasonable way to handle a player you think is a slacker who's got a reputation among the team as a primadona who's not putting in a full effort, and who also happens to have a concussion.
I don't get the impression that having a player stand for 3 hours which a concussion is horrible. If so, he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the field to begin with.
And if there was some medical harm in having him stand, and Leach should have known (was told and ignored dr's advice, etc) then he should be held accountable.
But just having had a concussion doesn't seem like standing for 3 hours is unacceptable behavior.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 02:56 PM
"Hey Jim, if you don't come to work today, then don't bother coming back ever again."
"You can't do that boss! That's kidnapping! I'm calling the cops!"
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 02:57 PM
Have you ever fucking played football before? ROFL
You're fucking dumbass. I played Kansas 6A football, dipshit.
I saw worse shit than this in JV football when I was a freshmen in high school...
No wonder you're so fucked up then.
I saw our crazy ass baseball coach (who doubled as the JV football coach) make a fatass offensive lineman run until he threw up (those were the guidelines) for jumping offsides...
I bet that coach was the toast of the town, right?
JFC.
God forbid they made this kid (a little bitch from the way it was painted) stand in a room for a few hours for being a whiny distraction...
It just so happens he's the kid of the "Great White Hope!"
More proof that you're an ignorant moron.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 02:58 PM
It is amazing how people will compromise their values to support a team.
There are two kinds of people in this discussion: those who can clearly see that Leach crossed the line and comitted a wrongful act and Texas Tech fans.
I am a Missouri fan, and I have never been a Texas Tech fan. There are also people that can see that Craig James has a sordid history, and that the Texas AD has been angling to get rid of Leach for a while.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 02:58 PM
"Hey Jim, if you don't come to work today, then don't bother coming back ever again."
"You can't do that boss! That's kidnapping! I'm calling the cops!"
It's not a job.
It's collegiate athletics.
No. I said turn him over to the medical staff if you want him off the field then LEAVE HIM ALONE.
Not turn him over to the medical staff then act like a complete mental reject and stick the kid in a dark room under threat of retaliation should he wish to leave the room. Constructive kidnapping is not okay just because you called the doctor first.
Constructive kidnapping?I was waiting for this to be said cause when you confine someone,and tell them they can't leave,isn't that kid napping?
Well I guess not if you're a college coach and you don't like your players fat lil girlfriends.ROFL
vailpass
12-30-2009, 02:59 PM
"Hey Jim, if you don't come to work today, then don't bother coming back ever again."
"You can't do that boss! That's kidnapping! I'm calling the cops!"
"I have a medical condition that prohibits me from having to work. This position is ratified by the instituition under whose rules you are contractually obligated to operate. Go ahead and try to retaliate boss and see what happens.Oh, you got fired.Big surprise."
Just Passin' By
12-30-2009, 02:59 PM
It is amazing how people will compromise their values to support a team.
There are two kinds of people in this discussion: those who can clearly see that Leach crossed the line and comitted a wrongful act and Texas Tech fans.
I'm curious.... if you have a player who can't practice with the team, so you 'force' him to stand in a specific section of the stands, or in a specific area behind the bench, how is that different?
...he figured the best thing to do would be to punish him for being a malingerer faking a concussion by giving him some kind of teach you a lesson stay in this room kinda nonsense.
That would seem kinda stupid considering how this NFL season and Tim Tebow have made concussion recovery one of the biggest topics of this football season.
I don't get the impression that anyone thinks he was faking the concussion. he was diagnosed with it. I think Leach and others like myself just see the 'punishment' was for a guy with a consussion trying to get away with using his consussion as an excuse to get out of even standing out on the field with the team for 3 hours.
stumppy
12-30-2009, 03:01 PM
Locking someone in a closet is a crime? My brother should have gone to jail several years before he actually did. Stupid, yes, but a crime?
Posted via Mobile Device
You seriously don't see the difference ?
Hootie
12-30-2009, 03:01 PM
LMAO
just read those emails posted...
and Dane is agreeing with the kid!
Go figure...
LMAO
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:01 PM
I don't get the impression that anyone thinks he was faking the concussion. he was diagnosed with it. I think Leach and others like myself just see the 'punishment' was for a guy with a consussion trying to get away with using his consussion as an excuse to get out of even standing out on the field with the team for 3 hours.
Then bench him or find a reason to cut him. 1952 came and went a long time ago.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:01 PM
I don't get the impression that anyone thinks he was faking the concussion. he was diagnosed with it. I think Leach and others like myself just see the 'punishment' was for a guy with a consussion trying to get away with using his consussion as an excuse to get out of even standing out on the field with the team for 3 hours.
Leach should have suspended him or booted him off the team.
Whatever the case, Leach acted improperly.
It's not a job.
It's collegiate athletics.
Yeah, but to most of these kids, it's treated like a job.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:03 PM
LMAO
just read those emails posted...
and Dane is agreeing with the kid!
Go figure...
LMAO
You're a fucking moron.
I'm not "agreeing" with "the kid".
ANY coach who pulls this kind of shit on a college or high school campus deserves their walking papers, immediately.
Don't you have a roommate to rape?
Move along.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:03 PM
Pour salt on him, the Leach is shriveled up and gone.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:03 PM
Yeah, but to most of these kids, it's treated like a job.
That does not give a coach on a collegiate campus carte blanche.
Mecca
12-30-2009, 03:05 PM
You know what the moral of this story is?
If you're going to fuck with a kid, it probably shouldn't be the guys kid who works for ESPN.
Wow. WTH are the Tech administrators thinking? After reading that, it seems pretty obvious what was the problem.
They just wanted to get rid of him.
I am writing this letter on behalf of Mike Leach in regards to the Adam James situation. I was the inside receiver coach at Texas Tech when we made the decision the sign Adam James in January of 2007. Adam had no offers to play NCAA D1 football during and after his Senior year. After a conversation between Coach Leach and Adams father Craig, Coach Leach acquired a brief highlight tape of Adam and made the decision to take him as a scholarship student athlete. I was opposed to doing so in belief he was not a D1 football player. Coach Leach overrode my opinion and Adam became a Red Raider. During the rest of my time at Texas Tech I was Adams position coach where I always remained critical of Adams ability to play at this level due to being lazy in not only the classroom but also in the off season and during practice. Coach Leach was the one who kept saying he believed Adam would eventually contribute. Adams teammates believed he was selfish and were constantly getting onto him for lack of effort as they sensed entitlement on his part due to his father being a very good football player. Adam eventually ended up playing a little after I left due to his body type being able to do some TE sets which consists of around 5-10 plays a game. Adam should be thankful for the opportunity to play at Texas Tech and for Mike Leach, who gave him the opportunity. In my opinion playing 5-10 plays a game in an outstanding offense is more than he would get at any other school in NCAA D1 football.
Dana Holgorsen
OC & QB's
University of Houston
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:05 PM
You know what the moral of this story is?
If you're going to **** with a kid, it probably shouldn't be the guys kid who works for ESPN.
There's more truth than poetry to that one for sure.
Hootie
12-30-2009, 03:06 PM
You're ****ing dumbass. I played Kansas 6A football, dipshit.
No wonder you're so ****ed up then.
I bet that coach was the toast of the town, right?
JFC.
More proof that you're an ignorant moron.
What? Congratulations? I don't get it...
The JV coach I referenced was our Varsity baseball coach for a year and he scared the shit out of us...scared the shit out of us so much we'd run 5 miles every morning and work out like crazy so we'd be in tip/top shape for when baseball season started...
If we missed a sign during the season...or did something stupid on the field...we'd come in at 6 AM for a "good baseball" the next morning...
The dude was insane...but he used to be the hitting coach at Illinois and now he has his own gig at a JUCO...good coach, but he had some insane tactics and we were just in high school.
You're the type of pussy ass bitch who thinks two 13 year olds who get into a fight at school deserve to be arrested and spend the rest of the day in jail.
The PUSSIFICATION of Dane's America continues.
Adam James is a little bitch, plain and simple, and it's quite clear his daddy is the only reason Mike Leach isn't coaching at TT anymore...and lets be honest...he's going to get a HUGE buyout out of this...guaranteed.
RippedmyFlesh
12-30-2009, 03:06 PM
From what I've read (emails from players and coaches) Adam James is a whining primadona. My guess is that Leach had enough of what he thought was AJ's efforts to get special treatment, so rather than let him leave to go sit down and relax while the rest of the team was standing and praticing, he had did what was necessary to respond to the complain (get him out of the sun) but told him to stand in the room like all of his teammates were doing through the rest of practice.
That seems pretty likely and not very unreasonable. Unless there was a medical reason for him to not even be out there in the first place. Which it seems obviously to be untrue.
I am not sticking up for james but I have always figured the best punishment is bench time during games.
To me what leach did was stupid but not overly harsh.
I had seen some of my jr high not high school JR high coaches do worse but that was years ago. My high school coach denied us water breaks if we fucked up which is way worse than this but that was years ago.
In 2009 you cant do this and think you won't get called on it. Fuck there's people here who whine cause haley swears at pros.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:07 PM
They just wanted to get rid of him.
I am writing this letter on behalf of Mike Leach in regards to the Adam James situation. I was the inside receiver coach at Texas Tech when we made the decision the sign Adam James in January of 2007. Adam had no offers to play NCAA D1 football during and after his Senior year. After a conversation between Coach Leach and Adams father Craig, Coach Leach acquired a brief highlight tape of Adam and made the decision to take him as a scholarship student athlete. I was opposed to doing so in belief he was not a D1 football player. Coach Leach overrode my opinion and Adam became a Red Raider. During the rest of my time at Texas Tech I was Adams position coach where I always remained critical of Adams ability to play at this level due to being lazy in not only the classroom but also in the off season and during practice. Coach Leach was the one who kept saying he believed Adam would eventually contribute. Adams teammates believed he was selfish and were constantly getting onto him for lack of effort as they sensed entitlement on his part due to his father being a very good football player. Adam eventually ended up playing a little after I left due to his body type being able to do some TE sets which consists of around 5-10 plays a game. Adam should be thankful for the opportunity to play at Texas Tech and for Mike Leach, who gave him the opportunity. In my opinion playing 5-10 plays a game in an outstanding offense is more than he would get at any other school in NCAA D1 football.
Dana Holgorsen
OC & QB's
University of Houston
A member of the coaching fraternity who very well might get his next job from Leach writes a letter of support? A good defense attorney would need about 20 seconds to discredit this one.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 03:08 PM
Yeah, making kids stay for practice is not possible in 2009.
Hootie
12-30-2009, 03:08 PM
You know what the moral of this story is?
If you're going to **** with a kid, it probably shouldn't be the guys kid who works for ESPN.
This, this and THIS.
Kudos to Mike Leach for not giving a fuck and playing favorites, though.
If he's going to act like a 3 year old, he can get a "timeout" like a 3 year old.
Who cares if it was for three hours? He deserved it...and like tk13 said...I guarantee you other collegiate athletes get worse punishments on a practice to practice basis at any other major college university...
I'd say forcing one to run until they vomit is TEN times worse than making someone go stand in a dark room.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 03:09 PM
The timeout was the length of practice. Poor guy.
Hootie
12-30-2009, 03:09 PM
Dane thinks Haley should be fired for flipping off a fan.
He just thinks everyone should get fired for anything.
He's a drama queen.
Mecca
12-30-2009, 03:09 PM
The problem for Leach isn't just that it's Craig James son, it's that list has a big list of retarded things he's said, most people aren't going to give him the benefit anymore.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:10 PM
What? Congratulations? I don't get it...
The JV coach I referenced was our Varsity baseball coach for a year and he scared the shit out of us...scared the shit out of us so much we'd run 5 miles every morning and work out like crazy so we'd be in tip/top shape for when baseball season started...
If we missed a sign during the season...or did something stupid on the field...we'd come in at 6 AM for a "good baseball" the next morning...
The dude was insane...but he used to be the hitting coach at Illinois and now he has his own gig at a JUCO...good coach, but he had some insane tactics and we were just in high school.
You're the type of pussy ass bitch who thinks two 13 year olds who get into a fight at school deserve to be arrested and spend the rest of the day in jail.
The PUSSIFICATION of Dane's America continues.
Adam James is a little bitch, plain and simple, and it's quite clear his daddy is the only reason Mike Leach isn't coaching at TT anymore...and lets be honest...he's going to get a HUGE buyout out of this...guaranteed.
Fuck off, Rapist
stumppy
12-30-2009, 03:10 PM
I'm pretty ****ing sure if this guy wanted to sit, he could have sat...or if he wanted to leave, he could have left...
Of course he could have. But at what cost ? Kicked off the team and lost his schorlarship ? Hmmm, you think maybe that might have something to do with him staying put ?
Leach should have suspended him or booted him off the team.
Whatever the case, Leach acted improperly.
I don't have a problem with you not agreeing with the technique he used and maybe even seeing him as being somewhat petty or juvinilie on his part. But to me if it played out as I have described, it's not remotely worthy of being suspended or fired. It's far more likely that the kid was a punk, who's father is both father (understandable) but likely kind of a punk himself. And who because of his high profile in the media, was able to make just enough news out of the story as to give TT the excuse that they have wanted for months now, to fire him "with cause".
My guess is that Leach walks away getting paid the full $1.6 M for being fired without cause.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:11 PM
Dane thinks Haley should be fired for flipping off a fan.
He just thinks everyone should get fired for anything.
He's a drama queen.
I absolutely cannot wait for the day that your whiny little bitch ass has to compete in the real world.
I doubt you'll make it to age 30 without mommy and daddy's help.
Scumbag.
Hootie
12-30-2009, 03:12 PM
The timeout was the length of practice. Poor guy.
I watched our 8th grade basketball coach choke two of my teammates, rather aggressively...the latter one when we were in state basketball...so bad he walked out of the lockerroom and his son took over...there was a bit of controversy and the dad of the kid who got choked wasn't thrilled...but he kept his job the next year...
and then probably 5 years later he was the freshmen coach at the high school and the stat boy kept getting on his nerves during a varsity game and after the game he was caught choking him in front of hundreds of fans at that was his end...
But hilarious nonetheless ROFL
Mecca
12-30-2009, 03:12 PM
It's all well and good to have a convo about what use to fly in 1975 but it isn't that time frame anymore, you have to realize what you can and can't do and what will not be looked upon favorably when you have a public job.
Hootie
12-30-2009, 03:12 PM
Of course he could have. But at what cost ? Kicked off the team and lost his schorlarship ? Hmmm, you think maybe that might have something to do with him staying put ?
I'm PRETTY sure Craig James can afford paying his kids through college...
Hootie
12-30-2009, 03:13 PM
I absolutely cannot wait for the day that your whiny little bitch ass has to compete in the real world.
I doubt you'll make it to age 30 without mommy and daddy's help.
Scumbag.
dude if I make it to age 30 in general, score 1 for me
Hootie
12-30-2009, 03:14 PM
like someone said earlier...
With Mangino, everyone came out and blasted the guy...
With Leach, vice versa...
Dude is going to get a HUGE payout and land another job sooner than later.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:14 PM
I don't have a problem with you not agreeing with the technique he used and maybe even seeing him as being somewhat petty or juvinilie on his part. But to me if it played out as I have described, it's not remotely worthy of being suspended or fired. It's far more likely that the kid was a punk, who's father is both father (understandable) but likely kind of a punk himself. And who because of his high profile in the media, was able to make just enough news out of the story as to give TT the excuse that they have wanted for months now, to fire him "with cause".
My guess is that Leach walks away getting paid the full $1.6 M for being fired without cause.
All Leach had to due is state that the kid wasn't medically cleared to play and wasn't required to come to practice.
End of story.
Instead, Leach tried to force is will upon a student and unfortunately for him, he chose the wrong student to fuck with.
Adam Craig sounds like a spoiled piece of shit but even if that's the case, he shouldn't be locked in the dark in a room with guards.
It's college, not the military.
The problem for Leach isn't just that it's Craig James son, it's that list has a big list of retarded things he's said, most people aren't going to give him the benefit anymore.
It's what happens when you have a coach who has shown himself to be a bit wacky, and a kid who's been spoiled. Remember his dad was involved in one of the greatest NCAA penalties of all time. Too much ego all the way around.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:15 PM
I'm PRETTY sure Craig James can afford paying his kids through college...
Not everyone wants to live off of their parents even if their parents have the means.
It's all well and good to have a convo about what use to fly in 1975 but it isn't that time frame anymore, you have to realize what you can and can't do and what will not be looked upon favorably when you have a public job.
Yeah, but there's still plenty of coaches who still act like it's "1975", or worse. Everybody acting like Leach is out here on some island of torture are kidding themselves.
Hootie
12-30-2009, 03:17 PM
Not everyone wants to live off of their parents even if their parents have the means.
well based off of what I've been reading he's already doing a pretty good job...as the only reason he got to TT in the first place was because of ol' pops...
A member of the coaching fraternity who very well might get his next job from Leach writes a letter of support? A good defense attorney would need about 20 seconds to discredit this one.
An attorney is going to get Leach paid his full $1.6M for being fired without cause. These stories are surely invited in large part, and from supportive pepole, but that doesnt' make them un-true.
And for the record, the same could easily be said (about an attorney ripping apart a statement) about the James family side of things.
In the end, the knowable facts will come out, and it seems very reasonable that Leach got into a pissing match with this player, he played his father, the trump card, and in the end lost.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:19 PM
An attorney is going to get Leach paid his full $1.6M for being fired without cause. These stories are surely invited in large part, and from supportive pepole, but that doesnt' make them un-true.
And for the record, the same could easily be said (about an attorney ripping apart a statement) about the James family side of things.
In the end, the knowable facts will come out, and it seems very reasonable that Leach got into a pissing match with this player, he played his father, the trump card, and in the end lost.
Are you saying the kid lost? I didn't see the kid get canned a day before the bowl game.
We'll see. $1.6m would be a good deal for TT given the full value of Leach's contract. There could very well be a quiet settlement reached or there could be a loud and long court battle. I doubt TT wants a lot of that kind of publicity. Are you a Techy Jaz?
Just Passin' By
12-30-2009, 03:23 PM
All Leach had to due is state that the kid wasn't medically cleared to play and wasn't required to come to practice.
End of story.
Instead, Leach tried to force is will upon a student and unfortunately for him, he chose the wrong student to **** with.
Adam Craig sounds like a spoiled piece of shit but even if that's the case, he shouldn't be locked in the dark in a room with guards.
It's college, not the military.
If you've ever played organized sports in your life, you know that not being allowed take part in practice is not some "get out of practice free" card, and that the players are routinely required to show up nonetheless.
The issue here isn't that the kid had to be at practice, and anyone that tries to claim it is should probably be culled from the herd. The issue isn't that the kid was forced to stay in a specific area, unless we're going to fire every teacher, coach, police officer, administrative clerk and other person who's ever set up a specific area for people.
The only significant issue I've seen so far is whether the kid was forcibly prevented from leaving, and the threat of him losing his scholarship is not a physical deterrent.
stumppy
12-30-2009, 03:23 PM
I'm PRETTY sure Craig James can afford paying his kids through college...
Uh....yea, how much is that scholarship worth ? I don't care who you are, no young man wants to have to make that phone call telling dad he's gonna have to pony up tens of thousands of dollars.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 03:24 PM
All Leach had to due is state that the kid wasn't medically cleared to play and wasn't required to come to practice.
End of story.
Instead, Leach tried to force is will upon a student and unfortunately for him, he chose the wrong student to **** with.
Adam Craig sounds like a spoiled piece of shit but even if that's the case, he shouldn't be locked in the dark in a room with guards.
It's college, not the military.
Just because you aren't cleared for contact, or to do sprints, or even can't walk, that doesn't mean you don't have to be at practice. Leach still makes his players participate as much as their health allows. They still have to attend practice even if they can't take part in some or all of the physical aspects.
Frazod
12-30-2009, 03:24 PM
Well, at the end of the day looks like the biggest loser in this mess is Texas Tech football, followed closely by Adam James. There's no way he'll stay at Tech now, and after the allegations that have come out, good luck catching on anywhere else.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:25 PM
Just because you aren't cleared for contact, or to do sprints, or even can't walk, that doesn't mean you don't have to be at practice. Leach still makes his players participate as much as their health allows. They still have to attend practice even if they can't take part in some or all of the physical aspects.
Or else they got imprisoned in a dark room huh?
Chiefnj2
12-30-2009, 03:26 PM
Just because you aren't cleared for contact, or to do sprints, or even can't walk, that doesn't mean you don't have to be at practice. Leach still makes his players participate as much as their health allows. They still have to attend practice even if they can't take part in some or all of the physical aspects.
Since when is "attending practice" the same as being locked in a completely dark equipment shed?
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:26 PM
I am loving people brining up their high school sports stories like they are in any way comparable. Should I bring out my Dan Gable Wrestling Camp horror tales? lame.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 03:27 PM
Or else they got imprisoned in a dark room huh?
Wow, it sure sounds awful when you say it like that. I am just glad James didn't try to escape. He could have gotten shot in the back Shawshank Redemption style.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:27 PM
Just because you aren't cleared for contact, or to do sprints, or even can't walk, that doesn't mean you don't have to be at practice. Leach still makes his players participate as much as their health allows. They still have to attend practice even if they can't take part in some or all of the physical aspects.
You're missing the point.
If Adam James was a huge pain in the ass AND was suffering from a concussion, the best decision was to excuse him from practice until he was medically cleared to participate again.
Drama over. Leach still the head coach.
Problem solved.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 03:27 PM
Since when is "attending practice" the same as being locked in a completely dark equipment shed?
Since when was he locked in a completely dark equipment shed?
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 03:28 PM
You're missing the point.
If Adam James was a huge pain in the ass AND was suffering from a concussion, the best decision was to excuse him from practice until he's cleared.
Drama over. Leach still the head coach.
Problem solved.
Why? If he was physically able to attend practice, that is to say able to be at practice even if he involved in any physical contact, why is the best thing for him to not be at practice at all?
Are you saying the kid lost? I didn't see the kid get canned a day before the bowl game.
We'll see. $1.6m would be a good deal for TT given the full value of Leach's contract. There could very well be a quiet settlement reached or there could be a loud and long court battle. I doubt TT wants a lot of that kind of publicity. Are you a Techy Jaz?
The kid won his battle. The TT AD will lose his contract battle with Leach. Leach will win in the end, as he will get paid $1.6M to wait for the best available college football job over the offseason or next.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:29 PM
Wow, it sure sounds awful when you say it like that. I am just glad James didn't try to escape. He could have gotten shot in the back Shawshank Redemption style.
Would you want Missouri's coach to use the same tactics?
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:30 PM
The kid won his battle. The TT AD will lose his contract battle with Leach. Leach will win in the end, as he will get paid $1.6M to wait for the best available college football job over the offseason or next.
How is getting bought out of a $12.7 million contract for $1.6 million a victory?
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:30 PM
Why? If he was physically able to attend practice, that is to say able to be at practice even if he involved in any physical contact, why is the best thing for him to not be at practice at all?
As I stated earlier, if Adam James was as big a pain in the ass as illustrated AND he was unable to practice, why not excuse him until he was medically cleared to participate?
Please, explain to us HOW that wouldn't have been a better and more plausible option for Leach.
stumppy
12-30-2009, 03:31 PM
You're missing the point.
If Adam James was a huge pain in the ass AND was suffering from a concussion, the best decision was to excuse him from practice until he was medically cleared to participate again.
Drama over. Leach still the head coach.
Problem solved.
Bingo
Are you a Techy Jaz?
No, I'm an Arizona grad, and in fact the Wildcats will potentially lose Sonny Dykes, maybe the best coach on our staff, as a result of this.
I just see what Leach did as nothing particularly horrible (assuming what I suspect happened really did happen that way).
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:32 PM
The kid won his battle. The TT AD will lose his contract battle with Leach. Leach will win in the end, as he will get paid $1.6M to wait for the best available college football job over the offseason or next.
I'll be SHOCKED if an NCAA D-I school hires Leach as the head coach in the next 18-24 months.
Just Passin' By
12-30-2009, 03:32 PM
As I stated earlier, if Adam James was as big a pain in the ass as illustrated AND he was unable to practice, why not excuse him until he was medically cleared to participate?
Please, explain to us HOW that wouldn't have been a better and more plausible option for Leach.
Because you set up a scenario where being a pain in the ass gets you a different, and more 'free', set of rules than the rest of the kids. If the concussion was so bad that the kid couldn't even be at the practice, he should have gone to the infirmary or the hospital and gotten himself checked in, or at least gotten a doctor's note ordering him to stay in bed for a day or two.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 03:33 PM
As I stated earlier, if Adam James was as big a pain in the ass as illustrated AND he was unable to practice, why not excuse him until he was medically cleared to participate?
Please, explain to us HOW that wouldn't have been a better and more plausible option for Leach.
Why are we asking if it your scenario would have been better? The question is if Leach deserved to be fired, not whether there were smarter ways he could have handled the situation.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:33 PM
No, I'm an Arizona grad, and in fact the Wildcats will potentially lose Sonny Dykes, maybe the best coach on our staff, as a result of this.
I just see what Leach did as nothing particularly horrible (assuming what I suspect happened really did happen that way).
Ok thanks, I thought you were Wildcat.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:34 PM
Why are we asking if it your scenario would have been better? The question is if Leach deserved to be fired, not whether there were smarter ways he could have handled the situation.
Then the quick simple answer is YES, he deserved to be fired.
You're the one that keep rationalizing and justifying Leach's actions.
Let me put it to you in economic terms: If you're a TT Booster, especially a female TT Booster, are you going to continue to give money to the athletic department after a story like this breaks?
The answer is no.
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 03:35 PM
I'll be SHOCKED if an NCAA D-I school hires Leach as the head coach in the next 18-24 months.
I"ll be shocked if he isn't coaching next season.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 03:36 PM
I'll be shocked if Leach doesn't sue and take Texas Tech to the woodshed for a lil timeout.
KCUnited
12-30-2009, 03:36 PM
Raiders 2010?
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:37 PM
I"ll be shocked if he isn't coaching next season.
Then you seriously undervalue the impact to a university with allegations such as these.
How is getting bought out of a $12.7 million contract for $1.6 million a victory?
Well, first, if he holds the AD to the contract, the one he's trying to claim is voided by these actions, then Leach wins. Second, Leach will walk into a similar contract at any number of football programs within a year and half. The $1.6 M will be a bonus. He'll almost certainly get paid a 7 figure deal by someone in the media if he takes 2010 off. He's perfect for the media. He'll if i was him, I'd try to get a gig with ESPN just to piss off Craig James.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:37 PM
I'll be shocked if Leach doesn't sue and take Texas Tech to the woodshed for a lil timeout.
It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out legally. Both sides feel they are in the right here. TT has the resources but Leach can afford a more public fist-fight than TT wants.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:38 PM
I'll be shocked if Leach doesn't sue and take Texas Tech to the woodshed for a lil timeout.
I don't think it'll be possible. He was fired "with cause".
He's cooked.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:39 PM
Well, first, if he holds the AD to the contract, the one he's trying to claim is voided by these actions, then Leach wins. Second, Leach will walk into a similar contract at any number of football programs within a year and half. The $1.6 M will be a bonus. He'll almost certainly get paid a 7 figure deal by someone in the media if he takes 2010 off. He's perfect for the media. He'll if i was him, I'd try to get a gig with ESPN just to piss off Craig James.
So TT gets what they want, which is to get rid of Leach, for 1.6m instead of 12.5m and if Leach wants to recover any of that $ it will have to come from another school? Sound like TT wins hands-down in that scenario.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 03:39 PM
I don't think it'll be possible. He was fired "with cause".
He's cooked.
Yes, and now Leach's lawyers will sue to dispute that claim.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:40 PM
Yes, and now Leach's lawyers will sue to dispute that claim.
I seriously doubt they'll win.
We'll see.
But I highly doubt it.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 03:40 PM
So TT gets what they want, which is to get rid of Leach, for 1.6m instead of 12.5m and if Leach wants to recover any of that $ it will have to come from another school? Sound like TT wins hands-down in that scenario.
The odd thing is that Tech's AD has wanted to get rid of Leach for a while, and there hasn't been a reason that actually involves football.
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 03:41 PM
I seriously doubt you know what the hell you're talking about, but that's nothing new
I'll be SHOCKED if an NCAA D-I school hires Leach as the head coach in the next 18-24 months.
He'll be cleared of any wrong doing by collecting his $1.6M buyout, and all of the surrounding talk (players, coaches, etc) will support his side of the story and throw the kid under the bus.
Any school will then be clear to hire him and he'll have his pick of available jobs. He might wait until a sufficently better job becomes available, which might not happen this offseason. Or he might jump to the NFL (OC, etc).
Those are the only reasons he won't be coaching D1 next season, IMO.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:42 PM
The odd thing is that Tech's AD has wanted to get rid of Leach for a while, and there hasn't been a reason that actually involves football.
Is it because Leach is so damned funny looking, like Howdy Doody mated with Chuck Woolery?
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 03:42 PM
I don't think.
You could have stopped right there
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:44 PM
He'll be cleared of any wrong doing by collecting his $1.6M buyout, and all of the surrounding talk (players, coaches, etc) will support his side of the story and throw the kid under the bus.
Any school will then be clear to hire him and he'll have his pick of available jobs. He might wait until a sufficently better job becomes available, which might not happen this offseason. Or he might jump to the NFL (OC, etc).
Those are the only reasons he won't be coaching D1 next season, IMO.
Leach's circus show in the NFL? Interesting. I'd like to see him pull his lock you in a room trick with the big boys.
Headline reads "NFL Assistant Coach Anally Impaled by Goal Post"
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 03:44 PM
I also don't understand how he could have been that cramped in this shed:
http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/photo-texas-tech-shed-where-leach-sent-james-27498
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:45 PM
I also don't understand how he could have been that cramped in this shed:
http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/photo-texas-tech-shed-where-leach-sent-james-27498
You really think that is the issue?
So TT gets what they want, which is to get rid of Leach, for 1.6m instead of 12.5m and if Leach wants to recover any of that $ it will have to come from another school? Sound like TT wins hands-down in that scenario.
I'd bet TT fans would wildly disagree with you at the moment. They'd much rather have Leach than the $12M. My guess is that the AD wins the battle in his view (as you described).
But if the boosters feel the same way as the fans seem to, the AD will end up losing his job over this whole thing. As the boosters will be needed to pay the next coaches salary. Of course, given that Sonny Dykes is in line for that job, and I'd bet he has a lot of boosters in his corner given his success and his name, that too might just work itself out.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:46 PM
You could have stopped right there
How about disputing my claim, dipshit?
Fuck off, Dummy.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:47 PM
I'd bet TT fans would wildly disagree with you at the moment. They'd much rather have Leach than the $12M. My guess is that the AD wins the battle in his view (as you described).
But if the boosters feel the same way as the fans seem to, the AD will end up losing his job over this whole thing. As the boosters will be needed to pay the next coaches salary. Of course, given that Sonny Dykes is in line for that job, and I'd bet he has a lot of boosters in his corner given his success and his name, that too might just work itself out.
Oh yes, when I said TT I meant the administration not the fans. As to what the boosters want, I have no idea.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 03:48 PM
He'll be cleared of any wrong doing by collecting his $1.6M buyout, and all of the surrounding talk (players, coaches, etc) will support his side of the story and throw the kid under the bus.
Any school will then be clear to hire him and he'll have his pick of available jobs. He might wait until a sufficently better job becomes available, which might not happen this offseason. Or he might jump to the NFL (OC, etc).
Those are the only reasons he won't be coaching D1 next season, IMO.
As I said, we'll see.
I think it's going to be difficult for this entire thing to be resolved in time for him to be hired AND it's going to be a difficult sell to a university president and boosters.
Having this deal splattered all over ESPN isn't going to help Leach's cause, either.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:48 PM
dipshit
You could have stopped right there.
Leach's circus show in the NFL? Interesting. I'd like to see him pull his lock you in a room trick with the big boys.
Headline reads "NFL Assistant Coach Anally Impaled by Goal Post"
I guess it depends on how he adapts his coaching appraoch to "grown men".
I don't think it'll be possible. He was fired "with cause".
He's cooked.
They claim it was "with cause". That's for a judge to rule on or for them to negotiate.
sportsman1
12-30-2009, 03:57 PM
So we are protesting this heavily.. and the administration is going to feel a wrath like no other. We (students, alumni) have pretty much said that ALL financial support is gone until Myers, and Bailey, and maybe even Hance resign. This is disgraceful.. can't even make Aggy jokes because we are the true tards of Texas.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 03:59 PM
So we are protesting this heavily.. and the administration is going to feel a wrath like no other. We (students, alumni) have pretty much said that ALL financial support is gone until Myers, and Bailey, and maybe even Hance resign. This is disgraceful.. can't even make Aggy jokes because we are the true tards of Texas.
You're still better than A&M. Those folks are weird.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 03:59 PM
So we are protesting this heavily.. and the administration is going to feel a wrath like no other. We (students, alumni) have pretty much said that ALL financial support is gone until Myers, and Bailey, and maybe even Hance resign. This is disgraceful.. can't even make Aggy jokes because we are the true tards of Texas.
The grown-ups know how to ride out kid's emotions. You will all be mad until they hire a new coach, or there is a big concert, or oh hey that's shiny.....
TT football will be alright; Leach wasn't going to stay forever anyway.
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 04:00 PM
How about disputing my claim, dipshit?
**** off, Dummy.
OK, what claim?
You think he won't coach D1 again within 2 years, I think he will....how in the hell shall I dispute that? Hell, he'll coach again next season if he wants to.
You don't think he's gonna get paid by TTech because he was fired with cause.....I think his lawyers will get him paid, but do either if us KNOW that at this point, NO.
You've made no claim other than he should have dismissed the kid from practice and essentially give in to what the little shit wanted. I don't think he did anything way out of line....the sun's hurting your eyes, well then I'll send you into a dark, quiet place so you're not in so much discomfort. Was it the smartest thing, no obviously not, but some of you are acting like he was under an armed guard or locked in a position where he couldn't move. That is clearly NOT the case.
38yrsfan
12-30-2009, 04:02 PM
I wasn't aware that Bobby Knight stuck his players in dark locked rooms for hours on end while under guard.
Enlighten me.
You need to be more specific in your request for enlightenment and less prone to subjective linking and then jumping to erroneous conclusions.
sportsman1
12-30-2009, 04:05 PM
The grown-ups know how to ride out kid's emotions. You will all be mad until they hire a new coach, or there is a big concert, or oh hey that's shiny.....
TT football will be alright; Leach wasn't going to stay forever anyway.
Most of the alumni have already talked of withdrawing financial support.
If you want the pulse of what I have heard.
http://www.raiderpower.com
KCChiefsMan
12-30-2009, 04:05 PM
I bet that cameo in the show friday night lights had something to do with it. Leach was on an episode this season and all he said was "coach, find your inner pirate, find your inner pirate, swing your sword pirate!"
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 04:06 PM
OK, what claim?
You think he won't coach D1 again within 2 years, I think he will....how in the hell shall I dispute that? Hell, he'll coach again next season if he wants to.
I said 18-24 months. If you think he's going to be hired in the next 30 days to coach a D-I team, you're wrong.
This contract dispute won't be settled by the courts quickly.
You don't think he's gonna get paid by TTech because he was fired with cause.....I think his lawyers will get him paid, but do either if us KNOW that at this point, NO.
There is NO way he's paid his full contract value of $12 million. He'll be lucky to get one tenth that amount.
You've made no claim other than he should have dismissed the kid from practice and essentially give in to what the little shit wanted. I don't think he did anything way out of line....the sun's hurting your eyes, well then I'll send you into a dark, quiet place so you're not in so much discomfort. Was it the smartest thing, no obviously not, but some of you are acting like he was under an armed guard or locked in a position where he couldn't move. That is clearly NOT the case.
This is nonsense.
Complete and utter nonsense.
Let me guess: You're 70 years old? You think he should withhold water from the players, too?
Leach was out of line. WAY out of line. And he's an absolute moron if he thought there would be no repercussions from pulling a stunt like this.
Chiefnj2
12-30-2009, 04:06 PM
We'll never know how much of his contract he gets because both parties will settle with a confidentiality clause.
sportsman1
12-30-2009, 04:10 PM
Art Briles (formerly with Tech, and current Baylor HC) is rumored as replacement.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 04:10 PM
We'll never know how much of his contract he gets because both parties will settle with a confidentiality clause.
It'll get leaked.
Is TT a private school? If not and it's funded by the state of Texas, it'll be on their financial report.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 04:12 PM
Art Briles (formerly with Tech, and current Baylor HC) is rumored as replacement.
I hope Briles goes to Tech and Leach goes to Baylor.
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 04:15 PM
I said 18-24 months. If you think he's going to be hired in the next 30 days to coach a D-I team, you're wrong.
This contract dispute won't be settled by the courts quickly.
There is NO way he's paid his full contract value of $12 million. He'll be lucky to get one tenth that amount.
This is nonsense.
Complete and utter nonsense.
Let me guess: You're 70 years old? You think he should withhold water from the players, too?
Leach was out of line. WAY out of line. And he's an absolute moron if he thought there would be no repercussions from pulling a stunt like this.
I said NEXT SEASON....no one said 30 days and I also never said he would get the full 12 million, but I would be willing to bet you it's a sight more than 1.2 million
As for the other stuff, we're going tohave to agree to disagree.
As for the "water" comment, I believe that putting someone who was photopobic in a quiet, darkened room would have a toward medical effect while withholding water from a player would have an adverse one.
sportsman1
12-30-2009, 04:15 PM
Haha Me too. The last laugh would be on the boobs in Lubbock.
Leach won't get his 12M. 800K minimum, as I hear that there is some 10 business day clause that would mean his 800K is due before the firing can take place. 1.6M more likely because they won't be able to prove "with cause" on this story (maybe there's some other story or aspect we don't know about now). And if they do go for the $12M, he might get even more than 1.6M, though I'd guess exactly 1.6M in the end.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 04:17 PM
I said NEXT SEASON....no one said 30 days and I also never said he would get the full 12 million, but I would be willing to bet you it's a sight more than 1.2 million
2010, right?
Are universities in the habit of hiring head coaches in August?
I'd say that he'll get somewhere around 10% of his total contract value plus the bowl earnings (which are not included in the $12 million dollar contract).
vailpass
12-30-2009, 04:19 PM
Most of the alumni have already talked of withdrawing financial support.
If you want the pulse of what I have heard.
http://www.raiderpower.com
What are you hearing as to the reason(s) why TT wanted to get rid of Leach?
Braincase
12-30-2009, 04:19 PM
If Leach comes up with one neurologist that states that as part of treatment for a concussion, a player should avoid bright light, heat and excessive exercise, he'll be laughing alongside Mangino all the way to the bank.
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 04:21 PM
Yes, 2010, ther are more than 30 days between now and August.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 04:21 PM
If Leach comes up with one neurologist that states that as part of treatment for a concussion, a player should avoid bright light, heat and excessive exercise, he'll be laughing alongside Mangino all the way to the bank.
Not sure Leach's attorneys will let him play the "I'm qualified to administer medical treatment because I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express" role.
sportsman1
12-30-2009, 04:22 PM
What are you hearing as to the reason(s) why TT wanted to get rid of Leach?
Alot of it seems to go back to the Contract re-negotiations in February. Alot of bad blood still left with how Gerald Myers handled the situation. There has been reports around the time of "twittergate" that there was a huge personalities clash between the AD, Leach, and the University President.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 04:23 PM
Alot of it seems to go back to the Contract re-negotiations in February. Alot of bad blood still left with how Gerald Myers handled the situation. There has been reports around the time of "twittergate" that there was a huge personalities clash between the AD, Leach, and the University President.
That sounds typical. Sorry your school had to get caught up in this mess. Is TT nation still pumped up about the Alamo bowl or has this put a downer on it?
'Hamas' Jenkins
12-30-2009, 04:24 PM
Just another in a long line of scumbags making bones off of the abilities of others.
Fuck that worthless cunt.
sportsman1
12-30-2009, 04:26 PM
Some on Raiderpower said they aren't even going to make the trip. I heard that the atmosphere in Lubbock is like Hiroshima after the bomb was dropped. Kinda glad I'm not there.
KCChiefsMan
12-30-2009, 04:26 PM
Just another in a long line of scumbags making bones off of the abilities of others.
**** that worthless ****.
so coaching has nothing to do with success in college football?
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 04:26 PM
If Leach comes up with one neurologist that states that as part of treatment for a concussion, a player should avoid bright light, heat and excessive exercise, he'll be laughing alongside Mangino all the way to the bank.
I don't believe that it's anything to do with the concussion persay, but if the kid said the light was hurting his eyes, then how could putting him in a quiet dark room NOT be helping to alleviate his discomfort?
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 04:28 PM
Don't read the above as saying I neccessarily agree with what Leach did, but I don't think it's the "POW treatment" that some are making it out to be.
sportsman1
12-30-2009, 04:28 PM
Considering Craig James history with SMU.. I have a real hard time believing anything his family says.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 04:29 PM
Some on Raiderpower said they aren't even going to make the trip. I heard that the atmosphere in Lubbock is like Hiroshima after the bomb was dropped. Kinda glad I'm not there.
Dude, thats a little harsh.
I feel for ya though. Grab a beer, make the best of it. Join a female classmate for condolence sex.
Quietest Storm
12-30-2009, 04:30 PM
They did Leach a favor. I highly doubt he would field a better team than that one that beat Texas (07 was it?), while at TT.
Being a former D1 athlete, it makes me sick that some pre-madonna, lazy, POS got a great HC fired.
'Hamas' Jenkins
12-30-2009, 04:30 PM
so coaching has nothing to do with success in college football?
The cocksucker shouldn't question the health of the very people whose bodies he exploits to get his preposterously inflated paycheck.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 04:31 PM
Considering Craig James history with SMU.. I have a real hard time believing anything his family says.
That makes zero sense but I can see where Craig James is not going to win class president at TT this year. Any word yet on whether he is transferring?
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 04:32 PM
That makes zero sense but I can see where Craig James is not going to win class president at TT this year. Any word yet on whether he is transferring?
Yeah, it makes perfect sense.......Craig is Daddy, Adam is the kid, Craig was one of the ones who helped to bring the death penalty to SMU. but I will be curious to see if he transfers as well.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 04:33 PM
They did Leach a favor. I highly doubt he would field a better team than that one that beat Texas (07 was it?), while at TT.
Being a former D1 athlete, it makes me sick that some pre-madonna, lazy, POS got a great HC fired.
1) prima
2)the coach got himself fired by making political enemies with men more powerful than himself then giving those same men a reason to drill him. Leach talked shit to the safety then hung himself out over the middle and paid the price.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 04:34 PM
Craig is Daddy, Adam is the kid, but I will be curious to see if he transfers as well.
Yes, thank you much.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 04:35 PM
I don't believe that it's anything to do with the concussion persay, but if the kid said the light was hurting his eyes, then how could putting him in a quiet dark room NOT be helping to alleviate his discomfort?
The simple question is this: Why not just send the kid back to his dorm? Or to the campus hospital?
There are absolutely no excuses for putting a kid in an electrical shed/woodshed/whatever.
NONE.
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 04:36 PM
Yes, thank you much.
I wasn't trying to be a wise ass, hell I've been neg-repped four times on this thread already for my views on this. I guess people get upset when you don't think their views are gospel.
sportsman1
12-30-2009, 04:36 PM
Yeah, it makes perfect sense.......Craig is Daddy, Adam is the kid, Craig was one of the ones who helped to bring the death penalty to SMU. but I will be curious to see if he transfers as well.
Absolutely. I can't imagine him not transferring. I mean.. he would have a much better shot at SMU anyways. What kills me is it was Leach that wanted to bring him in. The rest of the staff wanted to pass on him.
All Leach had to due is state that the kid wasn't medically cleared to play and wasn't required to come to practice.
End of story.
Instead, Leach tried to force is will upon a student and unfortunately for him, he chose the wrong student to **** with.
Adam Craig sounds like a spoiled piece of shit but even if that's the case, he shouldn't be locked in the dark in a room with guards.
It's college, not the military.
For the record, I am certain that he wasn't "locked in the room". I'm sure he was ordered to stay in the room in the way that any player is ordered to run stairs or do pushups. They can say no if they feel that they have to.
And again, what they had him doing is far easier on you than running for 3 hours, or anything else that might be "ordered".
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 04:36 PM
some pre-madonna
1981?
vailpass
12-30-2009, 04:36 PM
1981?
:D
vailpass
12-30-2009, 04:37 PM
I wasn't trying to be a wise ass, hell I've been neg-repped four times on this thread already for my views on this. I guess people get upset when you don't think their views are gospel.
I didn't think you were being anything other than helpful; my thanks were sincere.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 04:37 PM
The simple question is this: Why not just send the kid back to his dorm? Or to the campus hospital?
There are absolutely no excuses for putting a kid in an electrical shed/woodshed/whatever.
NONE.
Yeah, why not let the inmates run the asylum? That always works out.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 04:38 PM
For the record, I am certain that he wasn't "locked in the room". I'm sure he was ordered to stay in the room in the way that any player is ordered to run stairs or do pushups. They can say no if they feel that they have to.
And again, what they had him doing is far easier on you than running for 3 hours, or anything else that might be "ordered".
There was a guard placed outside this room so he couldn't leave.
The bottom line is that he should have been excused from practice, especially if he was already considered a lazy-ass that didn't care.
This is what happens when football coaches, drunk on the power of a $2 million dollar contract, put themselves above their players.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 04:39 PM
Yeah, why not let the inmates run the asylum? That always works out.
You're an idiot.
If the kid was a malcontent, kick him off the team.
Don't lock him in a fucking closet with a guard at the door.
JFC.
:shake:
vailpass
12-30-2009, 04:39 PM
For the record, I am certain that he wasn't "locked in the room". I'm sure he was ordered to stay in the room in the way that any player is ordered to run stairs or do pushups. They can say no if they feel that they have to.
And again, what they had him doing is far easier on you than running for 3 hours, or anything else that might be "ordered".
Maybe some of these high-school glory-days guys can tell you how much authority a college football coach's word carries. How if he tells you to stay in that room without moving or leaving or you will be off this team then that is exactly what you do.
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 04:41 PM
The simple question is this: Why not just send the kid back to his dorm? Or to the campus hospital?
There are absolutely no excuses for putting a kid in an electrical shed/woodshed/whatever.
NONE.
Because the kid (by numerous accounts of others) had a history of being a lazy ass at practice and essentially wanted nothing more than to not be at practice. He had already been cleared by medical to participate to some extent at practice.
He put the kid there to help aleviate his photophobia, yet NOT give the kid what he wanted.
We'll disagree
You claimed that you did participate in sports. Even at a lower level (high school football I believe you said) if a player cannot participate in practice are they not generally to be at practice anyway if opportunity presents?
vailpass
12-30-2009, 04:41 PM
Yeah, why not let the inmates run the asylum? That always works out.
It did on True Genius. Sometimes on Welcome back Kotter though that prick Woodman was always trying to ruin the fun.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 04:41 PM
You're an idiot.
If the kid was a malcontent, kick him off the team.
Don't lock him in a ****ing closet with a guard at the door.
JFC.
:shake:
If Leach would have kicked him off the team, the same thing would have happened. So, say Leach kicks Adam off the team and takes his scholarship away. Daddy Craig goes and complains to AD and leaks everything to his buddies at ESPN. ESPN runs with it. Tech's AD fires Leach "with cause" for mistreating an injured player.
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 04:42 PM
I didn't think you were being anything other than helpful; my thanks were sincere.
Just 'splainin in case you thought I was.
There was a guard placed outside this room so he couldn't leave.
The bottom line is that he should have been excused from practice, especially if he was already considered a lazy-ass that didn't care.
This is what happens when football coaches, drunk on the power of a $2 million dollar contract, put themselves above their players.
There is no way the room was locked and no way that an grad asst coach trainer would keep this kid from walking out. He stayed becuse he wanted to keep his scholarship. But he could have walked away. He wasn't literally locked up.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 04:42 PM
Just 'splainin in case you thought I was.
Thanks, all good.
beer bacon
12-30-2009, 04:42 PM
You're an idiot.
If the kid was a malcontent, kick him off the team.
Don't lock him in a ****ing closet with a guard at the door.
JFC.
:shake:
He wasn't locked in a closet. How many times does this need to be said?
Brock
12-30-2009, 04:43 PM
This cat was in the bag a long time ago.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 04:44 PM
Because the kid (by numerous accounts of others) had a history of being a lazy ass at practice and essentially wanted nothing more than to not be at practice. He had already been cleared by medical to participate to some extent at practice.
He put the kid there to help aleviate his photophobia, yet NOT give the kid what he wanted.
We'll disagree
The bottom line is that he should have been kicked off or suspended from the team for his action prior to the concussion.
Sticking him in a closet is in no way, shape or form proper treatment of a concussion.
You claimed that you did participate in sports. Even at a lower level (high school football I believe you said) if a player cannot participate in practice are they not generally to be at practice anyway if opportunity presents?
It depends on whether or not it's a season ending injury or a week to week injury.
Either way, Leach handled this situation very carelessly and IMO (and obviously the university's as well), very stupidly.
vailpass
12-30-2009, 04:45 PM
There is no way the room was locked and no way that an grad asst coach trainer would keep this kid from walking out. He stayed becuse he wanted to keep his scholarship. But he could have walked away. He wasn't literally locked up.
"Your honor these athletes are conditioned from the time they are young boys that a coach's word is law. By the time they get to college that belief is so deeply ingrained as to become a virtual physical law. They may not have been the kind of locks you can see your honor but the instant Coach Leach ordered that concussed, confused young man to stay in that shed there were locks on that door all the same.The kind of locks that can't be broken, can't be picked, the kind that can only be removed by the same coach who placed them there in the first place."
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 04:45 PM
There is no way the room was locked and no way that an grad asst coach trainer would keep this kid from walking out. He stayed becuse he wanted to keep his scholarship. But he could have walked away. He wasn't literally locked up.
Oh, well that makes everything alright.
:rolleyes:
Maybe some of these high-school glory-days guys can tell you how much authority a college football coach's word carries. How if he tells you to stay in that room without moving or leaving or you will be off this team then that is exactly what you do.
That's exactly my point. He wasn't locked up at all. He was following orders of his coach just like any other player would if he's told to run for 3 hours. And Leach's order seems to me to be a complete non-threat of an order. It's not like he made a kid with a concussion do the OK drill or even 100 sit ups. He told him to stand in the equipment locker (shaded and airconditioned, if I heard it right) and stay standing for 3 hours, just like the rest of the players who are practicing have to do. And he put someone there to watch him to make sure he didn't sit down or lean on anything.
It's nothing more than what just about every football coach demands of any player at any level. Only he gets an airconditioned, shaded room to do it in because he has a consussion.
There is nothing wrong with that story, IMO. NOthing. If that's what happened, Leach is completely in the clear. If something else happened, then we'll see what develops.
Brock
12-30-2009, 04:47 PM
DID YOU ORDER THE CODE READ
Oh, well that makes everything alright.
:rolleyes:
Had they actually locked the kid in the room, it would make all the difference in the world.
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 04:49 PM
I don't know that you understand how D1 scholarships work, a players cannot lose a scholarship "just because". If there are not documented circumstances of refusal to participate, illegal activity, or such as that it is fairly hard to terminate one.
Now they CAN be reduced rather easily, but that's a whole different animal.
DID YOU ORDER THE CODE READ
There is definately a hazing element to this.
I don't know that you understand how D1 scholarships work, a players cannot lose a scholarship "just because". If there are not documented circumstances of refusal to participate, illegal activity, or such as that it is fairly hard to terminate one.
Now they CAN be reduced rather easily, but that's a whole different animal.
I'm sure you are right. I'm speaking in broad strokes, no doubt. I defer to just about anyone in the know on the details.
Old Dog
12-30-2009, 04:51 PM
Some have said that he couldn't sit either, but if there was an excercise bike in the room for his use, wouldln't that have allowed him to sit?
sportsman1
12-30-2009, 04:54 PM
If he was cut there is no doubt Craig James would have cried foul and the same result would have happened. It is really unprofessional that ESPN through all of this continues to give him a forum.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 04:54 PM
If Leach would have kicked him off the team, the same thing would have happened. So, say Leach kicks Adam off the team and takes his scholarship away. Daddy Craig goes and complains to AD and leaks everything to his buddies at ESPN. ESPN runs with it. Tech's AD fires Leach "with cause" for mistreating an injured player.
So what you're telling us is that Leach had no choice, right?
Why did he even sign a contract extension?
Why didn't he just quit?
Wow, poor Mike Leach!
:facepalm:
38yrsfan
12-30-2009, 04:54 PM
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/colleges/topstories/stories/123109dnsposherrington.2cf78a00.html
For the record: Craig James didn’t get Mike Leach fired. Neither did his son or ESPN or anyone else on the periphery of Texas Tech’s football program.
He won, graduated his players, didn’t attract the attention of the NCAA and still managed to generate controversy. In short, he was a lot like a basketball coach Tech once employed.
The difference between Leach’s situation and Bob Knight’s was that Gerald Myers liked Knight.
"Your honor these athletes are conditioned from the time they are young boys that a coach's word is law. By the time they get to college that belief is so deeply ingrained as to become a virtual physical law. They may not have been the kind of locks you can see your honor but the instant Coach Leach ordered that concussed, confused young man to stay in that shed there were locks on that door all the same.The kind of locks that can't be broken, can't be picked, the kind that can only be removed by the same coach who placed them there in the first place."
"Your honor, with all due respect to the court and my opposing collegue, I submit this long list of witnesses including current and former players and coaches who will testify to witnessing first hand how Adam James repeatedly refused to follow the word of his coaches. That's exactly what this case is about. A entitled student who felt his lineage of privlege permitted him to do everything he could to avoid following the coaching instructions that were given to players. The injury to this player was respected, and he was told the remain standing along side all of his teammates in a location that would be certain to protect him from harsh lighting."
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/colleges/topstories/stories/123109dnsposherrington.2cf78a00.html
For the record: Craig James didn’t get Mike Leach fired. Neither did his son or ESPN or anyone else on the periphery of Texas Tech’s football program.
He won, graduated his players, didn’t attract the attention of the NCAA and still managed to generate controversy. In short, he was a lot like a basketball coach Tech once employed.
The difference between Leach’s situation and Bob Knight’s was that Gerald Myers liked Knight.
Yep.
DaneMcCloud
12-30-2009, 04:58 PM
"Your honor, with all due respect to the court and my opposing collegue, I submit this long list of witnesses including current and former players and coaches who will testify to witnessing first hand how Adam James repeatedly refused to follow the word of his coaches. That's exactly what this case is about. A entitled student who felt his lineage of privlege permitted him to do everything he could to avoid following the coaching instructions that were given to players. The injury to this player was respected, and he was told the remain standing along side all of his teammates in a location that would be certain to protect him from harsh lighting."
While a student stood outside the room, guarding him from exiting.
That's not ominous at all, is it?
Some have said that he couldn't sit either, but if there was an excercise bike in the room for his use, wouldln't that have allowed him to sit?
Leach told the trainer to clean out the room of anything that he would be able to sit or lean on to be sure that didn't happen.
While a student stood outside the room, guarding him from exiting.
That's not ominous at all, is it?
Guarding him to make sure he didn't sit down. He was a snitch, hardly a locked door.
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