Source: Weis intrigued by Bears job

[Mr_Tomahawk]

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4799863

CHICAGO -- It appears the Chicago Bears won't have a shortage of candidates to replace Ron Turner, who was fired as offensive coordinator on Tuesday.

ESPNChicago.com Bears blog
The latest news from Bears beat reporter Jeff Dickerson. Blog

Former Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis is interested in the possibility of coming to Chicago, and he is currently holding off pursuing a similar role with the Kansas City Chiefs because of Tuesday's developments at Halas Hall, according to a source close to the Bears.

Weis was the offensive coordinator for the New England Patriots from 2000-04, playing a role in three Super Bowl championships. He also was the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets from 1997-99.

Weis was fired as Notre Dame's head coach on Nov. 30 after a five-year record of 35-27.

Former St. Louis Rams head coach Mike Martz also said he "absolutely" would be interested in replacing Turner.

Bears quarterback Jay Cutler is believed to be lobbying hard for ex-Denver Broncos quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates, who spent last season calling plays for USC.

[RustShack]

I think Martz is lobbying for this job.

[RustShack]

Oh shit it was in the article and I didn't even read it.

[Hammock Parties]

Weis and Crennel are both playing the Chiefs for more money.

Assholes. ROFL

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Positioning for more money. Everbody knows the Chiefs have the best available opening.

[nychief]

honestly, I don't care if we sign either one of these turds.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Weis and Crennel are both playing the Chiefs for more money.

Assholes. ROFL

I honestly am wondering if either one of them want to work in KC. Maybe they'd just truly rather work anywhere else.

[SPATCH]

posturing

[Dante84]

Martz would be interesting....

[nychief]

I honestly am wondering if either one of them want to work in KC. Maybe they'd just truly rather work anywhere else.

fine, fuck'em.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

fine, fuck'em.

I'm with that. But I'd be concerned about what it meant in terms of Pioli's relationships with his employees.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I honestly am wondering if either one of them want to work in KC. Maybe they'd just truly rather work anywhere else.

Who wouldn't want to work for Todd Haley?

[Bill Lundberg]

Just be prepared that when either (or both) Weiss or Crennel end up with other team(s) the Chiefs will say that they never pursued either one.

[Easy 6]

Mad Mike could turn Cutler into a fantasy football Juggernaut, the only problem is that Chicago has a few of those pesky players called running backs... they'd have to be axed posthaste.

Mad Mike throws on 4th & inches, bitches.

[Ralphy Boy]

I'm with that. But I'd be concerned about what it meant in terms of Pioli's relationships with his employees.

And then some. How good of a GM are you if you can't get two coordinators that you've worked with in the past to want to come work for you again?

It would, IMO, say a lot about what they think of Haley. :shake:

[The Bad Guy]

The Bears job? Really?

The Chiefs have the better RB, better WRs, and a better line. I'm pretty shocked that he'd rather coach that bitch Cutler to be honest.

This Chiefs job is no cushy one, but I'd much rather come here than coach against the Vikings and Packers every year.

[KCUnited]

Faster track to HC.

[-King-]

Eh, it would not shock me. He knows they have a quarterback with tons of talent and a lot of potential. We have Cassel....

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Who wouldn't want to work for Todd Haley?

http://i38.tinypic.com/fbibr6.gif

Edit: Thanks KCChiefsKing

[The Bad Guy]

Faster track to HC.

Based on what?

[CoMoChief]

Positioning for more money. Everbody knows the Chiefs have the best available opening.

What? we went 4-12 last season and have little to no talent to work with.

[-King-]

I think theres a good chance we get Crennel, but Weis? Nah.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The Bears job? Really?

The Chiefs have the better RB, better WRs, and a better line. I'm pretty shocked that he'd rather coach that bitch Cutler to be honest.

This Chiefs job is no cushy one, but I'd much rather come here than coach against the Vikings and Packers every year.

You answered your own question.

(The QB position is pretty fucking important)

[-King-]

If I had that gif of Haley screaming in Mo's face to fuck off, I'd post it right here.

Ask and you shall receive http://i38.tinypic.com/fbibr6.gif

[MahiMike]

Weis is just trying to up the ante. I'd just as soon have Martz myself.

[KCUnited]

Based on what?
Lovie should've already been fired.

[The Bad Guy]

You answered your own question.

(The QB position is pretty ****ing important)

Yeah, it is. And I'm not hitching my next job on calling plays with Jay Cutler.

There was a report that he sabotaged games because of his dislike for Ron Turner. Cutler has never won anywhere he has gone. He has a shit attitude.

[chiefzilla1501]

And then some. How good of a GM are you if you can't get two coordinators that you've worked with in the past to want to come work for you again?

It would, IMO, say a lot about what they think of Haley. :shake:

If Crennel turns it down, that would suck and I'd wonder why.

If Weis turns it down, lots of good reasons. The biggest being control. I'm sure he'd rather work for a defensive coach with limited control of the offense than an offensive coach who will want to stick his nose deep into his gameplanning.

Frankly, I'm surprised there's even a rumor we're going after Weis. I don't see how that could work at all.

[The Bad Guy]

Lovie should've already been fired.

And you think they are going to promote from within? How many coaches get fired and then they turn around and give an assistant a long term contract as HC?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yeah, it is. And I'm not hitching my next job on calling plays with Jay Cutler.

There was a report that he sabotaged games because of his dislike for Ron Turner. Cutler has never won anywhere he has gone. He has a shit attitude.

If it's MY ass on the line, I'll take the shit attitude with unlimited potential over the straight-laced nice guy who can't pass his was out of a wet paper bag.

But that's just me.

Attitude can be adjusted.

Talent can't.

[Quesadilla Joe]

be careful charlie weis: one of the bears' fired assistants just told me that jay cutler is a "coach killer".http://twitter.com/SI_JimTrotter/status/7412417005

:)

[splatbass]

And then some. How good of a GM are you if you can't get two coordinators that you've worked with in the past to want to come work for you again?

It would, IMO, say a lot about what they think of Haley. :shake:

There could be many reasons that they would rather go somewhere else besides Pioli and Haley. Maybe they want to go to a big market city like Chicago or NY. Maybe they think the players on another team are better suited for their system. You can't just assume that if they go elsewhere they did because they don't like Pioli or Haley.

Does it occur to you that not everyone wants to live in KC? Hell, I grew up there and I don't want to live there. No offense to KC....

[keg in kc]

Weis and Crennel are both playing the Chiefs for more money.Or playing the bears and giants for more money when they come here.

[KCUnited]

And you think they are going to promote from within? How many coaches get fired and then they turn around and give an assistant a long term contract as HC?
If I'm at a coordinator level with aspirations of being a HC, I'm going to the club that has arguably a better city, with better peices in place, with the HC that is on the hottest seat.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Ask and you shall receive http://i38.tinypic.com/fbibr6.gif

Rep

[The Bad Guy]

If I'm at a coordinator level with aspirations of being a HC, I'm going to the club that has arguably a better city, with better peices in place, with the HC that is on the hottest seat.

Where are the Bears better pieces?

Forte is awful.

Their line is in worst shape than ours.

They have absolutely no real wideouts.

This also isn't baseball or basketball. Assistant coaches NEVER in the NFL are pegged to replace the HC. I'd love to see some instances of this happening.

[The Bad Guy]

If it's MY ass on the line, I'll take the shit attitude with unlimited potential over the straight-laced nice guy who can't pass his was out of a wet paper bag.

But that's just me.

Attitude can be adjusted.

Talent can't.

When is the attitude going to change? The guy has had the same bullshit care-free attitude since he arrived at Vanderbilt. He always thought his big arm could get him by whereever he went.

I'm not taking any guy that is going to sabotage or undermine anything I'm trying to do as a coordinator regardless of how big his Elvis Grbac arm is.

It amazes me how much slack people are willing to give players like Cutler just because he has a big arm.

[Coogs]

What? we went 4-12 last season and have little to no talent to work with.

I have to believe there are OC's out there that would love to come in and have a RB like Charles in place. Yes, there needs to be some key pieces put in around him, but still... what a centerpiece to build around.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I have to believe there are OC's out there that would love to come in and have a RB like Charles in place. Yes, there needs to be some key pieces put in around him, but still... what a centerpiece to build around.

Taking nothing away from Jamaal, but usually those centerpieces are QB's.

[KCUnited]

Where are the Bears better pieces?

Forte is awful.

Their line is in worst shape than ours.

They have absolutely no real wideouts.

This also isn't baseball or basketball. Assistant coaches NEVER in the NFL are pegged to replace the HC. I'd love to see some instances of this happening.
Its arguable. Plus the details. Is he going to get total control of the offense in Chicago or is he going to be Todd's minion here in KC. There's a lot of variables that go into which situation is a better fit. I was just stating what I would do.

[nychief]

we need players, not coaches.

[chiefzilla1501]

Its arguable. Plus the details. Is he going to get total control of the offense in Chicago or is he going to be Todd's minion here in KC. There's a lot of variables that go into which situation is a better fit. I was just stating what I would do.

Exactly. I don't see Weis coming here for that reason. He's an experienced coach and he has the choice between a place where he has control vs. one where he probably won't. It's not a hard decision to make, and it has nothing to do with what he thinks of Haley or the players on the Chiefs' squad. I was surprised he was on the list in the first place.

[RustShack]

How do you figure Weis wont have control here? Its not like Haley is an offensive guru, he was an OC for two years and only called the plays for one year before coming here. Its not like Weis runs a whole different scheme, he runs the offense that he taught Haley, you know the one we run here today. Haley isn't going to have any problems at all giving his teacher the rains to his offense since hes already said he would like to find an OC who can call the plays.

[Coogs]

Taking nothing away from Jamaal, but usually those centerpieces are QB's.

I know. But what are you going to do? Best I could come up with was Charles.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I know. But what are you going to do? Best I could come up with was Charles.

Apparently, we're going to sit on our fucking hands for another year or six, waiting for a career backup to be kissed by a fucking frog and turn into Peyton Manning.

And when that doesn't work out, we'll go out and sign Brian Brohm or Tom fucking Brandstater to a 10 year, $110M contract with eleventy-million guaranteed. Or even worse, we'll give up a draft pick or two for them.

It's the Chiefs fucking way.

[Mr_Tomahawk]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/football/nfl/01/05/chiefs.weis/

Source says Weis could be Chiefs next offensive coordinator


Amid speculation that former Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis could be headed to Chicago to replace fired offensive coordinator Ron Turner, a league source said Monday night that Weis actually might be bound for Kansas City.
Weis has spoken with the Chiefs multiple times since being fired Nov. 30 after losing four in a row to finish 6-6 in 2009 and 35-27 over five seasons. He has relationships with a number of people in the organization, including general manager Scott Pioli, whom he worked with in New England, and head coach Todd Haley, with whom he shared office space as assistants with the Jets.
"I would expect a decision in the next couple of days," the source said.
At a news conference Monday to announce the firing of the offensive staff, Bears general manager Jerry Angelo declined to identify the candidates to replace Turner. The Bears made a blockbuster trade for QB Jay Cutler in the offseason, but the team still wound up 23rd in total offense. Cutler threw for a career-high 27 touchdowns, but also led the league with 26 interceptions and had a career-low 76.8 passer rating.
Angelo admitted that the replacement for Turner could be "the biggest decision" the organization has made since he arrived in 2001. The Bears have to find someone who can get the most out of Cutler, a fourth-year pro who received $20 million in guarantees as part of the two-extension he signed in 2009. Weis is an established playcaller who helped the Patriots win three Super Bowls in four seasons before leaving for Notre Dame in 2005.
Still, it's debatable whether Chicago is a better fit. In Kansas City, Weis would be surrounded by former co-workers -- possibly including Romeo Crennel, if he accepts an offer to join the defensive staff -- and would have a quarterback, Matt Cassel, who was brought up in the Patriots system before being traded to Kansas City last year. Some personnel people also contend that the Chiefs have better young talent than the Bears, who lack a proven No. 1 receiver and a physical ball-carrier for the cold of November and December, and have age issues along the line.
"Chicago has location, because my understanding is that Charlie wants to keep his home in South Bend (Ind.)," the source said. "But the Chiefs have everything else."
Haley, who did the playcalling after firing coordinator Chan Gailey before the season opener, has said previously that he wants to hire someone to handle the playcalling so he can focus on coaching the entire team, and not just the offense. The foundation of Haley's system is said to be similar to what Weis uses, so the only major adjustment would be Weis picking up the new terminology.

[chiefzilla1501]

How do you figure Weis wont have control here? Its not like Haley is an offensive guru, he was an OC for two years and only called the plays for one year before coming here. Its not like Weis runs a whole different scheme, he runs the offense that he taught Haley, you know the one we run here today. Haley isn't going to have any problems at all giving his teacher the rains to his offense since hes already said he would like to find an OC who can call the plays.

You're talking about a vocal head coach who just this season wanted to dig his hands into all elements of the offense, from OC to QBs, to even dissatisfaction at the way our WRs coach was coaching the WRs. Vs. an offense like Chicago, run by a defensive guru who knows virtually nothing about how to run an offense.

I find it hard to believe Haley would give up much control. I'm sure he wants an OC to help him call plays, not a guy who would have 100% control of the offense.

[dirk digler]

Apparently, we're going to sit on our fucking hands for another year or six, waiting for a career backup to be kissed by a fucking frog and turn into Peyton Manning.

And when that doesn't work out, we'll go out and sign Brian Brohm or Tom fucking Brandstater to a 10 year, $110M contract with eleventy-million guaranteed. Or even worse, we'll give up a draft pick or two for them.

It's the Chiefs fucking way.

where is that blow my brains out picture?

[Bill Lundberg]

Apparently, we're going to sit on our ****ing hands for another year or six, waiting for a career backup to be kissed by a ****ing frog and turn into Peyton Manning.

And when that doesn't work out, we'll go out and sign Brian Brohm or Tom ****ing Brandstater to a 10 year, $110M contract with eleventy-million guaranteed. Or even worse, we'll give up a draft pick or two for them.

It's the Chiefs ****ing way.


This isn't meant to bag on you, but why do you stay a fan if it's so frustrating? I'm being serious, what keeps you invested in this team?

I happen to share many of your frustrations, but I also believe it's going to take the new guys more than a year to figure things out. Am I happy with every move? Nope. Are there things I would have liked to see them do differently? Yep. Do I think we have the right guys running the show? Ask me in 2 more years.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Some personnel people also contend that the Chiefs have better young talent than the Bears, who lack a proven No. 1 receiver and a physical ball-carrier for the cold of November and December, and have age issues along the line.

Hard to take someone seriously when they imply Matt Forte, all 6-2 and 220 pounds isn't a physical runner.

And while Chicago lacks a true WR1, if I were building a team, I'd rather have Knox and Aromushudu at WR2/WR3 than Chambers and Wade.

And QB isn't even close, no matter how much you hate Cutler.

[dirk digler]

I happen to share many of your frustrations, but I also believe it's going to take the new guys more than a year to figure things out. Am I happy with every move? Nope. Are there things I would have liked to see them do differently? Yep. Do I think we have the right guys running the show? Ask me in 2 more years.

That has been my position for the longest time. Though in fairness if they decide to keep Penderfuck as DC that patience will all be used up.

[OnTheWarpath15]

where is that blow my brains out picture?

I've been a fan for 30 years, with only a few playoff wins to be happy about, and I'll continue to be a fan until the day I die, HOPING this team finally wakes the fuck up and wins a championship.

FWIW, there's a huge difference between "patience" and "accepting incompetence."

[TheGuardian]

Martz would be an awful hire. The guy has no idea what to do with running backs.

[Frazod]

Martz would be an awful hire. The guy has no idea what to do with running backs.

I'm sure he'd get along great with Haley, though.

ROFL

[The Bad Guy]

Hard to take someone seriously when they imply Matt Forte, all 6-2 and 220 pounds isn't a physical runner.

And while Chicago lacks a true WR1, if I were building a team, I'd rather have Knox and Aromushudu at WR2/WR3 than Chambers and Wade.

And QB isn't even close, no matter how much you hate Cutler.

I don't think Forte is a physical runner. The guy goes down on first contact all the time. If there's not a hole, he's not creating one.

I had this bastard on my fantasy team all year, and he was painful to watch.

Ahh, yes, Cutler. Doesn't matter he threw 25 picks. Doesn't matter that he sabotages coordinators. Doesn't matter that he has a loser attitude. As long as he has that cannon, people will think he's going to turn into some big winner when he's never won anywhere he's been.

Matt Cassel is pretty awful, but Jay Cutler is a piece of shit.

[TheGuardian]

Forte isn't a physical runner. His size doesn't really have anything to do with it. Walter Payton was physical as hell and he was all of 200 pounds. Your size aint got shit to be with being physical. Ron Dayne never ran anyone over and he was 260.

[Mr. Laz]

Weis and Crennel are both playing the Chiefs for more money.

Assholes. ROFL
:sulk:

[dirk digler]

I've been a fan for 30 years, with only a few playoff wins to be happy about, and I'll continue to be a fan until the day I die, HOPING this team finally wakes the fuck up and wins a championship.

FWIW, there's a huge difference between "patience" and "accepting incompetence."

I am with you OTW. I wasn't saying you weren't a fan I hope you didn't take it that way.

The scenario you painted though wanted me to blow my head off. :D

[dirk digler]

I don't think Forte is a physical runner. The guy goes down on first contact all the time. If there's not a hole, he's not creating one.

I had this bastard on my fantasy team all year, and he was painful to watch.

Ahh, yes, Cutler. Doesn't matter he threw 25 picks. Doesn't matter that he sabotages coordinators. Doesn't matter that he has a loser attitude. As long as he has that cannon, people will think he's going to turn into some big winner when he's never won anywhere he's been.

Matt Cassel is pretty awful, but Jay Cutler is a piece of shit.

Basically Jay Cutler is Jeff George

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't think Forte is a physical runner. The guy goes down on first contact all the time. If there's not a hole, he's not creating one.

I had this bastard on my fantasy team all year, and he was painful to watch.

Ahh, yes, Cutler. Doesn't matter he threw 25 picks. Doesn't matter that he sabotages coordinators. Doesn't matter that he has a loser attitude. As long as he has that cannon, people will think he's going to turn into some big winner when he's never won anywhere he's been.

Matt Cassel is pretty awful, but Jay Cutler is a piece of shit.

You're letting your FF frustrations blind you on this one, Frank. He rarely went down on first contact last year, mostly because he wasn't getting contact until the 2nd level. This year, his OL did him no favors.

Forte didn't turn into a POS overnight.

[Mecca]

Forte's line turning into the worst one in the league killed his year.

But the Bears still have one thing the Chiefs don't have, a legit guy lining up under center.

[The Bad Guy]

You're letting your FF frustrations blind you on this one, Frank. He rarely went down on first contact last year, mostly because he wasn't getting contact until the 2nd level. This year, his OL did him no favors.

Forte didn't turn into a POS overnight.

This has nothing to do with fantasy football.

I watched just about every Bears game this year. The guy NEVER broke tackles. He never created plays on his own.

The Bears line sucked, but even a physical runner is getting yards after first contact. Forte didn't do that.

If there wasn't a hole, he didn't get anything.

It's not last year anymore. Forte was a good runner his rookie year. He regressed worse than any 2nd year back I've ever seen.

He's not physical by any means.

[Mecca]

Also I don't think anyone should be looking at a RB as a centerpiece seeing as they have very short careers.

[The Bad Guy]

Forte's line turning into the worst one in the league killed his year.

But the Bears still have one thing the Chiefs don't have, a legit guy lining up under center.

The love Cutler gets around here is amazing. Bears out of the playoffs, what does Jay do? Throw 7 touchdowns.

I just don't see Cutler as anything but Elvis Grbac. Both padded stats when games and seasons didn't matter anymore. Both had a bullshit care-free attitude.

I guess having a rocket arm eliminates all deficiencies.

[Mecca]

That's nice and all, he's better than our guy.

I'm not sitting here pimping him as Manning or Rodgers or Rivers or something.

[Frazod]

Forte's line turning into the worst one in the league killed his year.

But the Bears still have one thing the Chiefs don't have, a legit guy lining up under center.

Shit. Cutler is Rex Grossman with diabetes and a bad attitude. I still can't believe how much the Bears gave up for his punk ass. :shake:

[The Bad Guy]

That's nice and all, he's better than our guy.

I'm not sitting here pimping him as Manning or Rodgers or Rivers or something.

No, you're not. But you act like coaches should pick the Bears based on him.

[dirk digler]

The love Cutler gets around here is amazing. Bears out of the playoffs, what does Jay do? Throw 7 touchdowns.

I just don't see Cutler as anything but Elvis Grbac. Both padded stats when games and seasons didn't matter anymore. Both had a bullshit care-free attitude.

I guess having a rocket arm eliminates all deficiencies.

He is not even Elvis Grbac. He is Jeff George reincarnate until he proves otherwise.

[OnTheWarpath15]

No, you're not. But you act like coaches should pick the Bears based on him.

Considering the QB is the hardest position to find on offense, you could see why, provided you weren't blinded by Cutler hate.

For all Cutlers shortcomings, real and perceived, he's still heads and shoulders above Cassel.

The offense revolves around the QB. Kinda important if you're an OC.

[Mecca]

No, you're not. But you act like coaches should pick the Bears based on him.

Well that would factor in to my decision, it's harder to get a QB than anything else. RB's are a dime a dozen.

[DeezNutz]

This has nothing to do with fantasy football.

I watched just about every Bears game this year. The guy NEVER broke tackles. He never created plays on his own.

The Bears line sucked, but even a physical runner is getting yards after first contact. Forte didn't do that.

If there wasn't a hole, he didn't get anything.

It's not last year anymore. Forte was a good runner his rookie year. He regressed worse than any 2nd year back I've ever seen.

He's not physical by any means.

I don't think he regressed. As a runner, he wasn't spectacular as a rookie.

Captain Checkdown, however, did a great job dumping it off to him in space. With Cutler, the Bears did not properly utilize Forte's skill set.

[The Bad Guy]

Considering the QB is the hardest position to find on offense, you could see why, provided you weren't blinded by Cutler hate.

For all Cutlers shortcomings, real and perceived, he's still heads and shoulders above Cassel.

Yes, it's just a bias with Cutler. Give me a break. The guy is a shitbag with a big arm. My Cutler hate is based on decision-making, attitude and not leading his team to anything EVER in his career.

What exactly do you love about Cutler besides the fact he can throw it a mile like Uncle Rico?

[Mecca]

Cutler likes to push the ball down field, anyone that thought Forte would catch 70 balls again, was high.

[The Bad Guy]

I don't think he regressed. As a runner, he wasn't spectacular as a rookie.

Captain Checkdown, however, did a great job dumping it off to him in space. With Cutler, the Bears did not properly utilize Forte's skill set.

I can agree with this.

However, his rookie year he was able to make plays when there weren't any.

This last year, if there wasn't a hole, he was getting tackled by the first defender.

[Mecca]

Whoa Whoa Whoa a shitbag?

He's at the very least a borderline top 10 QB, atleast 10-15.

[The Bad Guy]

Cutler likes to push the ball down field, anyone that thought Forte would catch 70 balls again, was high.

It has nothing to do with catching passes. It has to do with Forte getting yards after contact.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't think he regressed. As a runner, he wasn't spectacular as a rookie.

Captain Checkdown, however, did a great job dumping it off to him in space. With Cutler, the Bears did not properly utilize Forte's skill set.

I respectfully disagree.

You don't gain over 1200 yards rushing, averaging 4 a pop with 8 TD's and just be an average back.

[dirk digler]

Cutler likes to push the ball down field, anyone that thought Forte would catch 70 balls again, was high.

He didn't catch 70 he caught 63 for 477 yds. This year he caught 57 for 471 yds. Hardly any difference.

He regressed or the O-line regressed

[Mecca]

It probably doesn't help that the Bears are under this illusion that Devin Hester can play WR.

[Mecca]

He didn't catch 70 he caught 63 for 477 yds. This year he caught 57 for 471 yds. Hardly any difference.

He regressed or the O-line regressed

Well that line is really awful.

[dirk digler]

It probably doesn't help that the Bears are under this illusion that Devin Hester can play WR.

I agree with that. We saw that firsthand when they had Dante start to play WR and his returns went to shit

[Frazod]

It probably doesn't help that the Bears are under this illusion that Devin Hester can play WR.

Yeah, I caught this act with Dante Hall a few years ago.

[DeezNutz]

I respectfully disagree.

You don't gain over 1200 yards rushing, averaging 4 a pop with 8 TD's and just be an average back.

No, no. We're going to be arguing semantics here.

What I meant is that in '08, he wasn't making remarkable runs, shedding lots of tacklers, making people miss. In other words, being the Jamaal Charles we saw for the last half of this year.

I saw a solid, versatile back in Forte.

[The Bad Guy]

Whoa Whoa Whoa a shitbag?

He's at the very least a borderline top 10 QB, atleast 10-15.

Yeah, top 10 QBs throw the ball to the other team 25 times in a season.

Before I even mentioned Jay Cutler, I would take:

Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Philip Rivers
Donovan McNabb
Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Tony Romo
Matt Ryan
Kurt Warner
Ben Roethlisburger
Eli Manning
Matt Schaub
Brett Favre
Joe Flacco
Carson Palmer

[Mecca]

Devin Hester can be a nice gimmick player on offense, get him a screen, swing him out of the backfield.

Starting WR, no.

[dirk digler]

No, no. We're going to be arguing semantics here.

What I meant is that in '08, he wasn't making remarkable runs, shedding lots of tacklers, making people miss. In other words, being the Jamaal Charles we saw for the last half of this year.

I saw a solid, versatile back in Forte.

Forte had alot less carries this year compared to his rookie year which is probably directly related to having Cutler as QB rather than Orton.

[Mecca]

Their line got worse, they added a better QB.

I don't think Forte is much different of a player I think the things around him changed.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yes, it's just a bias with Cutler. Give me a break. The guy is a shitbag with a big arm. My Cutler hate is based on decision-making, attitude and not leading his team to anything EVER in his career.

What exactly do you love about Cutler besides the fact he can throw it a mile like Uncle Rico?

Trent Green was a good guy, so he gets a pass when people say he didn't lead the Chiefs to anything.

But Cutler's a shitbag, so he doesn't get that excuse, even though he's never thrown for less than 3500 yards as a starter, has never thrown more INT's than TD's and has a career 62% completion percentage.

And he's only a 3rd year starter. God forbid he hasn't won a playoff game in 3 years.

If Matt Cassel threw for 4500 yards, a 62.3% completion percentage, 25 TD's and 18 INT's - I'd cream my fucking shorts.

But the guy that did that is a shitbag.

[DeezNutz]

Forte had alot less carries this year compared to his rookie year which is probably directly related to having Cutler as QB rather than Orton.

Nice job with the # of catches. I didn't expect that to be so close.

When I saw the Bears this year (appoximately 3-4 games), it just seemed like Forte was an after-thought. Obviously this perception was NOT accurate with respect to his role in the passing game.

[Mecca]

Trent Green was a good guy, so he gets a pass when people say he didn't lead the Chiefs to anything.

But Cutler's a shitbag, so he doesn't get that excuse, even though he's never thrown for less than 3500 yards as a starter, has never thrown more INT's than TD's and has a career 62% completion percentage.

And he's only a 3rd year starter. God forbid he hasn't won a playoff game in 3 years.

If Matt Cassel threw for 4500 yards, a 62.3% completion percentage, 25 TD's and 18 INT's - I'd cream my fucking shorts.

But the guy that did that is a shitbag.

Bingo.

[Frazod]

Trent Green was a good guy, so he gets a pass when people say he didn't lead the Chiefs to anything.

God I'm sick of people saying shit like this.

IS IT GREEN'S FAULT THAT WE HAD THE WORST FUCKING DEFENSE ON EARTH?

Green did enough to get us THREE Super Bowls. The failure was Carl's and Dick's.

We'll NEVER have an offense again as good as the one led by Trent Green. He wasn't back there knitting, you know.

:banghead:

[keg in kc]

Cutler's a loser with a lot of talent.

[Mecca]

The Chiefs spent all their money on offense to make Green look good, remember that.

Trent Green held onto the ball forever and if he had a marginal supporting cast he would have looked bad.

[Quesadilla Joe]

Yeah, top 10 QBs throw the ball to the other team 25 times in a season.

Before I even mentioned Jay Cutler, I would take:

Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Philip Rivers
Donovan McNabb
Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Tony Romo
Matt Ryan
Kurt Warner
Ben Roethlisburger
Eli Manning
Matt Schaub
Brett Favre
Joe Flacco
Carson Palmer

You forgot Kyle Orton

[OnTheWarpath15]

God I'm sick of people saying shit like this.

IS IT GREEN'S FAULT THAT WE HAD THE WORST FUCKING DEFENSE ON EARTH?

Green did enough to get us THREE Super Bowls. The failure was Carl's and Dick's.

We'll NEVER have an offense again as good as the one led by Trent Green. He wasn't back there knitting, you know.

:banghead:

Tim, that's my point.

Cutler did his part in Denver, and his defense fucking killed any chances that team had.

But he's getting crucified because he never won anything, and the guy has only been in the league for 4 fucking years, and a starter for 3.

[FAX]

Source: Oops. Weis not intrigued by Bears job. Just intrigued by bears.

FAX

[Mecca]

Cutler's a loser with a lot of talent.

What's that make our guy? A loser with marginal talent?

[The Bad Guy]

Trent Green was a good guy, so he gets a pass when people say he didn't lead the Chiefs to anything.

But Cutler's a shitbag, so he doesn't get that excuse, even though he's never thrown for less than 3500 yards as a starter, has never thrown more INT's than TD's and has a career 62% completion percentage.

And he's only a 3rd year starter. God forbid he hasn't won a playoff game in 3 years.

If Matt Cassel threw for 4500 yards, a 62.3% completion percentage, 25 TD's and 18 INT's - I'd cream my ****ing shorts.

But the guy that did that is a shitbag.

And I'm the one fixated on fantasy stats?

The guy has never won ANYWHERE. I see you consistently preaching that you need a centerpiece under center. What good are all his stats when his best season as a starter is 8-8?

[keg in kc]

What's that make our guy? A loser with marginal talent?What does one have to do with the other?

[Mecca]

Jay Cutler should have lifted Vanderbilt university all by himself, the fact that he succeeded there is pretty telling in and of itself.

And for the last god damn time, wins is a team stat.

[Frazod]

Tim, that's my point.

Cutler did his part in Denver, and his defense fucking killed any chances that team had.

But he's getting crucified because he never won anything, and the guy has only been in the league for 4 fucking years, and a starter for 3.

He's a punk and whiner. Green was a leader. Sure Cutler has a cannon for an arm. But he's got Elvis Grbac's tiny little heart.

[keg in kc]

He's a punk and whiner. Green was a leader. Sure Cutler has a cannon for an arm. But he's got Elvis Grbac's tiny little heart.You'll never get that point across, no matter how hard you try.

[The Bad Guy]

What's that make our guy? A loser with marginal talent?

If Cassel threw 26 interceptions this year, he would be burned at the steak.

I'm no Cassel fan, but forgiving all of Cutler's shortcomings just because he can make all the throws is unbelievable.

[Mecca]

Cutler still had more TD's than Int's, Cassel can't say that...

[Quesadilla Joe]

Mecca reminds me of Al Davis.

[FAX]

Cutler is a real weird guy. With Favre disease.

FAX

[Mecca]

To show you how dilluted of a stat wins is, Vince Young is a winner, want him?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Cutler's a loser with a lot of talent.

Yeah, he's 2 games under .500 as a full time starter, with two of those years being asked to win on his own because the defense was ranked 33rd in a league of 32 teams, and this last year with WR's that would be WR3's at best on most other teams.

If Trent Green gets to use the defense excuse, there's no reason Cutler shouldn't.

[keg in kc]

Cutler still had more TD's than Int's, Cassel can't say that...I'm still wondering what one has to do with the other. Isn't the discussion about Cutler? What does Cassel have to do with it?

[The Bad Guy]

Jay Cutler should have lifted Vanderbilt university all by himself, the fact that he succeeded there is pretty telling in and of itself.

And for the last god damn time, wins is a team stat.

Succeeded where?

Jay Cutler had a 11-35 record in college. 11-35. Dominant players in college are usually good for 4-5 wins by themselves in college football. He had 11 total in 4 years.

Yep. Team stat. 26 interceptions should be counted as a team stat. Only when the Bears had no shot at anything did he throw more than 25% of his touchdown passes for the year.

[FAX]

Source: Weis to decide by playing solo game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. Games ending in tie.

FAX

[Mecca]

Jay Cutler as the only good player on his team should have dominated teams with 30 NFL players.

[The Bad Guy]

I'm still wondering what one has to do with the other. Isn't the discussion about Cutler? What does Cassel have to do with it?

Because Cassel sucks, that means we should suck off Cutler because of his rocket arm.

[keg in kc]

When I say "loser", I'm using it in a looser sense. I'm not talking literally about wins and losses. I'm talking about his presence and his personality and the way the players around him respond to it. All the talent in the world yet nobody he plays with respects him. Nor do his coaches for that matter.

I was sorely disappointed when Denver traded him. Although Orton salved the wound somewhat.

[Mecca]

Seriously, Vince Young and Jay Cutler went in the same draft. Young won a bunch of games in college and has in the pros, are you going to honestly say you'd rather have him cause he's a "winner"?

[FAX]

Source: Weis hanging himself from balcony in frustration.

FAX

[OnTheWarpath15]

If Cassel threw 26 interceptions this year, he would be burned at the steak.

I'm no Cassel fan, but forgiving all of Cutler's shortcomings just because he can make all the throws is unbelievable.

Jesus, Frank.

He had ONE year over 20 INT's.

And it happened to be in a season in which his WR's were named Hester, Knox and Aromushudu.

He's NEVER thrown more INT's than TD's.

[The Bad Guy]

Jay Cutler as the only good player on his team should have dominated teams with 30 NFL players.

He should have won more games in college.

What big time NFL QB won only 11 games in college in 4 years?

That doesn't send some red flags to you that despite all his talent, he went to Vandy where he could pile up meaningless stats but knew the team would be awful all 4 years?

[Mecca]

You say people overlook how he sucks for his arm, I say some think he's a bum cause he was on the Broncos.

[FAX]

Source: Rope broke. Weis fell two stories into Russian Olive shrub. Will not coach the Russians.

FAX

[keg in kc]

Seriously, Vince Young and Jay Cutler went in the same draft. Young won a bunch of games in college and has in the pros, are you going to honestly say you'd rather have him cause he's a "winner"?After his recovery this year, I think you could make a fair argument for Young, although he did not end the year on a high note.

[The Bad Guy]

Jesus, Frank.

He had ONE year over 20 INT's.

And it happened to be in a season in which his WR's were named Hester, Knox and Aromushudu.

He's NEVER thrown more INT's than TD's.

Got it. He's an awesome QB throwing to Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal.

He sucks throwing to inferior WRs.

I guess it's only acceptable to throw a ton of picks to the other team when you have bad receivers and a rocket arm. Cassel only has the bad receivers aspect working for him right now.

[OnTheWarpath15]

He should have won more games in college.

What big time NFL QB won only 11 games in college in 4 years?

That doesn't send some red flags to you that despite all his talent, he went to Vandy where he could pile up meaningless stats but knew the team would be awful all 4 years?

So again, he doesn't get the excuse Trent Green gets?

He was the only elite player on a team that played in the toughest conference in CFB. Yet he's supposed to will a team of smart kids with DII talent to wins over LSU, Florida, Alabama, etc?

Gimme a fucking break.

[tyler360]

He should have won more games in college.

What big time NFL QB won only 11 games in college in 4 years?

That doesn't send some red flags to you that despite all his talent, he went to Vandy where he could pile up meaningless stats but knew the team would be awful all 4 years?

Didnt elway not win very many games in college?

[OnTheWarpath15]

You say people overlook how he sucks for his arm, I say some think he's a bum cause he was on the Broncos.

If Jay Cutler had played for the 49ers, this discussion never takes place.

[keg in kc]

You say people overlook how he sucks for his arm, I say some think he's a bum cause he was on the Broncos.Yeah, that's it. Nobody else is capable of halfway logical analysis. It all breaks down to homer fans hating rival players. Only you can see the light.

[Mecca]

After his recovery this year, I think you could make a fair argument for Young, although he did not end the year on a high note.

If you'd really rather have Vince Young than Jay Cutler...I'm going to question your sanity or just your general dislike of Cutler.

[chiefzilla1501]

You say people overlook how he sucks for his arm, I say some think he's a bum cause he was on the Broncos.

Mecca, the national media is hounding Cutler because he played terrific football to close the season when it counted, and played shitty football to begin the season when the pressure was on. It's a criticism that has followed him his entire career.

Trust me, I wanted nothing more than to see Cutler do well to show the Broncos how stupid they were to trade him. But the guy literally has no backbone in pressure situations.

[Mecca]

Yeah, that's it. Nobody else is capable of halfway logical analysis. It all breaks down to homer fans hating rival players. Only you can see the light.

Really?

You just actually tried to argue in favor of Vince Young over Jay Cutler, logically speaking that makes no sense so it's something beyond just him as a player.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Didnt elway not win very many games in college?

20 wins in the Pac 10.

Should have won more.

What a shitbag.

[keg in kc]

If you'd really rather have Vince Young than Jay Cutler...I'm going to question your sanity or just your general dislike of Cutler.I'd pick neither. You're posing a lesser of two evils question.

[The Bad Guy]

Seriously, Vince Young and Jay Cutler went in the same draft. Young won a bunch of games in college and has in the pros, are you going to honestly say you'd rather have him cause he's a "winner"?

With the way he played this year, absolutely.

How can you undervalue a QB who wins games?

[FAX]

Source: Weis back in house. Wife calling 911.

FAX

[Mecca]

With the way he played this year, absolutely.

How can you undervalue a QB who wins games?

Yep this is just down to the general dislike of Cutler.

Because as a starting QB in the NFL, Vince Young is a shitbag.

[aturnis]

I think Crennel would be very interested in the D-coordinator position. There are some talented players on the D. The offense on the other hand...

Cassel (a matter of opinion)
Bowe (dropaholic)
Charles (we'll see)

o-line is anemic. Who would want to walk into this?

[Brock]

Let me guess, Mecca just made another sweeping generalization about "this fanbase".

[The Bad Guy]

20 wins in the Pac 10.

Should have won more.

What a shitbag.

20>11.

What part of when I said dominant QBs should be good enough for 4-5 wins alone each year on their own did you not grasp?

I'm glad you love Cutler. I don't. I'm done arguing about a stat-padding player who will never lead his team anywhere in the NFL.

[tyler360]

20 wins in the Pac 10.

Should have won more.

What a shitbag.

I thought it was something like that. He turned out pretty good. Wins can be overrated when evalutating players but at the same time they also can be telling.

[keg in kc]

Really?

You just actually tried to argue in favor of Vince Young over Jay Cutler, logically speaking that makes no sense so it's something beyond just him as a player.It might have something to do with 8-2 as a starter on a team that started 0-6, with over 60% completions in 6 of the 10 games, something I never in a million years would have expected from him. Hell, he had over a 90 rating in half his starts. The San Diego game was really his only bad outing.

And I don't like Cutler. I never have. It's not a secret. It's also not because he was a Bronco.

Sometimes I wonder if you just can't grasp the fact that somebody else might actually have a different opinion than you.

[RustShack]

Cutler is one of the better QB's in the league.. theres no denying that. I'm not saying Orton is good, but hes a lot better after he left the Bears. Chicago is where QB's and WR's go to die.

[keg in kc]

Let me guess, Mecca just made another sweeping generalization about "this fanbase".We don't like Cutler because he was a Bronco.

You got the memo right?

[Brock]

Cutler is one of the better QB's in the league.. theres no denying that. I'm not saying Orton is good, but hes a lot better after he left the Bears. Chicago is where QB's and WR's go to die.

Cutler's talented. He's also stupid, a crybaby, and a loser.

[The Bad Guy]

Yep this is just down to the general dislike of Cutler.

Because as a starting QB in the NFL, Vince Young is a shitbag.

Yep. My bias is unfounded.
Apparently, the only thing that matters is the yards you throw for, and the distance you can throw a football.

[OnTheWarpath15]

20>11.

What part of when I said dominant QBs should be good enough for 4-5 wins alone each year on their own did you not grasp?

I'm glad you love Cutler. I don't. I'm done arguing about a stat-padding player who will never lead his team anywhere in the NFL.

I've never once said I loved him.

I just don't have a deep rooted hate for the kid like you do.

And FWIW, 20 wins against the competition Ewlay faced compared to 11 wins against the competition Cutler faced, and the talent surrounding each, is pretty comparable.

But I know you won't see it that way.

[RustShack]

Cutler's talented. He's also stupid, a crybaby, and a loser.

In a way hes Randy Moss. Just put him on the right team and he can be the best in the NFL.

[OnTheWarpath15]

In a way hes Randy Moss. Just put him on the right team and he can be the best in the NFL.

If Denver had even an average defense in 2007 and 2008, we're not having this discussion, Shanahan is still the HC, and Cutler is still a Bronco.

IMHO.

[The Bad Guy]

I've never once said I loved him.

I just don't have a deep rooted hate for the kid like you do.

And FWIW, 20 wins against the competition Ewlay faced compared to 11 wins against the competition Cutler faced, and the talent surrounding each, is pretty comparable.

But I know you won't see it that way.

I just hate him because he was a Bronco. Haven't you heard?

I hate Cutler because he has a loser attitude with all the tools you'd want in a QB. This isn't a vendetta, this isn't because he played against the Chiefs. It's because of his effort. I'm allowed to hate players based on that instead of falling in love with them because they have a big arm.

[dirk digler]

Nice job with the # of catches. I didn't expect that to be so close.

When I saw the Bears this year (appoximately 3-4 games), it just seemed like Forte was an after-thought. Obviously this perception was NOT accurate with respect to his role in the passing game.

Thanks.

[Frazod]

I hate him because I like the Bears, who traded away two first round picks for this interception chucking piece of shit when they could have just resigned Rex Grossman for nothing.

[Mr. Laz]

cutler does remind me a bit of Grbac

[carlos3652]

OTWP - How is 26 INT's acceptable though? I was pissed Cassel had 16... plus i thought a good QB will normally have a 2-1 ratio td/int

[Frazod]

cutler does remind me a bit of Grbac

Except Grbac had a chin.

[dirk digler]

Seriously, Vince Young and Jay Cutler went in the same draft. Young won a bunch of games in college and has in the pros, are you going to honestly say you'd rather have him cause he's a "winner"?

If he is the Vince Young that showed up the last 8 games of the season, in a heartbeat I would.

[keg in kc]

Except Grbac had a chin.All we need from Cutler is an "I can't throw it and catch it" incident with the media and then a development of the classic Grbac "oh shit, I just threw a pick, time to play hurt" technique, and the two would be indistinguishable. They're already equally popular with their teammates.

[carlos3652]

by the way cutler, OTWP, has a career 77/66 td/int ratio with a yards/pass attempt ratio of 7.18... for a first round pick in his 4 year, wouldnt you think he would be better? Would you not be pissed if Cassel had the same numbers? I know i wouldnt be happy if Cassel, in 3 years has those numbers... (and a 24-29 record as a starter to boot)

[carlos3652]

seriously, i need OTWP or Mecca to answer my question above, you guys are great posters, i just need clarification on how Cutler is considered good with those numbers...

[OnTheWarpath15]

by the way cutler, OTWP, has a career 77/66 td/int ratio with a yards/pass attempt ratio of 7.18... for a first round pick in his 4 year, wouldnt you think he would be better? Would you not be pissed if Cassel had the same numbers? I know i wouldnt be happy if Cassel, in 3 years has those numbers... (and a 24-29 record as a starter to boot)

You have incorrect info on Cutler. His career TD/INT is 81/63. That's a 1.28 TD/INT ratio.

http://www.nfl.com/players/jaycutler/profile?id=CUT288111

Any guess as to what Peyton Manning's ratio was his first 4 years?

1.37

And he was a #1 overall pick, surrounded by superior talent.


Cutler's biggest problem is forcing the ball because he feels it's all on his shoulders. In Denver, he had to score 35 to have a chance to win a game.

In Chicago, he's trying to overcome a lack of talent around him.

If he ever figures out how to overcome that feeling of having to do everything, the sky is the limit. Because right now, the only thing holding him back is his turnovers, and like I said, he has a positive TD/INT ratio, and has never thrown more INT's than TD's in a season.

[TEX]

Can anyone really see Weis working with Cutler?

[carlos3652]

You have incorrect info on Cutler. His career TD/INT is 81/63. That's a 1.28 TD/INT ratio.

http://www.nfl.com/players/jaycutler/profile?id=CUT288111

Any guess as to what Peyton Manning's ratio was his first 4 years?

1.37

And he was a #1 overall pick, surrounded by superior talent.

I stand corrected, my info was off, must have not included the last 4 td's in the last game, and i added 3 int... blindly... thats what i get for not double checking...

regardless though, this year his td/int ratio was bad... right? and his 6.6 avg per pass attempt was not good right?

Cassel in year 2 as a starter has a 1.37 ratio... and a 6.6 avg... how is he not given a pass too?

[carlos3652]

If he ever figures out how to overcome that feeling of having to do everything, the sky is the limit. Because right now, the only thing holding him back is his turnovers, and like I said, he has a positive TD/INT ratio, and has never thrown more INT's than TD's in a season.

Wow, are you talking about Cutler or Cassel cause this is true for both at this point...

[carlos3652]

and by the Way OTWP, thanks for correcting me, and answering my questions, you are one of the few posters i really enjoy reading...

[OnTheWarpath15]

I stand corrected, my info was off, must have not included the last 4 td's in the last game, and i added 3 int... blindly... thats what i get for not double checking...

regardless though, this year his td/int ratio was bad... right? and his 6.6 avg per pass attempt was not good right?

Cassel in year 2 as a starter has a 1.37 ratio... and a 6.6 avg... how is he not given a pass too?

Cassel's numbers are based on one good year in NE, where over 70% of his pass attempts traveled under 10 yards.

Cutler's numbers are based over 4 years, and this year was his worst, was still better than Cassel in every category but INT's, and Cutler had much, much less to work with.

If Matt Cassel did what Cutler did in 2007 or 2008, people wouldn't be complaining.

Problem is, Cassel will likely never do those things, because he doesn't have talent, nor does he have the downfield accuracy necessary.

[OnTheWarpath15]

and by the Way OTWP, thanks for correcting me, and answering my questions, you are one of the few posters i really enjoy reading...

No problem. Thanks for the kind words.

[DeezNutz]

No problem. Thanks for the kind words.

You must have missed post #160, because you skipped over it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Wow, are you talking about Cutler or Cassel cause this is true for both at this point...

You must have missed post #160, because you skipped over it.

Holy shit. Yeah, I missed it.

Carlos, if you think the only thing holding Cassel back is turnovers, I have some oceanfront property in Eastern Missouri I'd love to sell you.

[carlos3652]

Cassel's numbers are based on one good year in NE, where over 70% of his pass attempts traveled under 10 yards.

Cutler's numbers are based over 4 years, and this year was his worst, was still better than Cassel in every category but INT's, and Cutler had much, much less to work with.

If Matt Cassel did what Cutler did in 2007 or 2008, people wouldn't be complaining.

Problem is, Cassel will likely never do those things, because he doesn't have talent, nor does he have the downfield accuracy necessary.

Fair enough, but if Cassel had that Denver Offense i think he would have done just as good as Cutler... heck, i think Cassel would have had better numbers than Orton and his td/int ratio would even be better... do you disagree with this...

and if i read this right, you are telling me that Chicago offensive cast is worse team then the Chiefs...????? this after week in and week out everyone saying the chiefs are the worst team in the NFL..?

[carlos3652]

Holy shit. Yeah, I missed it.

Carlos, if you think the only thing holding Cassel back is turnovers, I have some oceanfront property in Eastern Missouri I'd love to sell you.

Haha... ill probably buy it, since im from another country...:shake:

but i guess i was talking about his td/int ratio being positive in his career, and never having more ints than tds...

[DeezNutz]

Holy shit. Yeah, I missed it.

Carlos, if you think the only thing holding Cassel back is turnovers, I have some oceanfront property in Eastern Missouri I'd love to sell you.

I was thinking you viewed it as a choose-your-own-adventure moment:

Should I hit the softball, perhaps engendering ill will? Or, should I graciously accept the compliment?

I am interested in the real estate, however.

[carlos3652]

I was thinking you viewed it as a choose-your-own-adventure moment:

Should I hit the softball, perhaps engendering ill will? Or, should I graciously accept the compliment?

I am interested in the real estate, however.

Man I used to love those books, if you choose post 160 - kill the spaniard, if you choose post 162 happy ending... not in that way though, maybe GC can help with that.... :doh!:

[DeezNutz]

Man I used to love those books, if you choose post 160 - kill the spaniard, if you choose post 162 happy ending... not in that way though, maybe GC can help with that.... :doh!:

Me, too. And _Big_ was on TV the other day. "You think someone is going to pay $19.95 for a comic book?!!!"

:clap: And GC is never safe.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Fair enough, but if Cassel had that Denver Offense i think he would have done just as good as Cutler... heck, i think Cassel would have had better numbers than Orton and his td/int ratio would even be better... do you disagree with this...

No, I don't think Cassel could have taken Denver to a better record, nor compiled better statistics. And I definitely don't see him throwing fewer INT's than Orton, considering he threw just as many in NE surrounded by the dynasty of the decade.

and if i read this right, you are telling me that Chicago offensive cast is worse team then the Chiefs...????? this after week in and week out everyone saying the chiefs are the worst team in the NFL..?

Oh yeah, Chicago's offensive talent is worse than ours, at least for this season.

The OL's are probably a wash.

The RB's are hard to judge, because both are young, and they are different kind of runners.

But Chicago's WR were trash.

For a single season, I'd take Bowe/Chambers/Wade over Hester/Knox/Aromushdu every time, no questions asked.

If I were thinking about the future, however, I'd prefer to have Bowe, Knox and Aromushdu, and take my lumps while they learn.

That's the thing: Cutler leaves Denver, where he had Marshall, Royal and Scheffler to throw to - and goes to Chicago, throws to that crew, and the only statistic that suffered was his INT total.

Part of that was trying to do to much, part of it was young, inexperienced WR's running bad routes, the wrong routes, and learning on the fly.

[jspchief]

Weis and Cutler? no. Martz and Cutler? Nope.

Egomaniac OC + lackadaisical QB = Oil + water

Until Cutler plays well under pressure, he doesn't live up to the hype IMO. It's not about his stats. It's about the gamebreaking poor decisions the guy makes when the pressure is on, either literal pressure from a pass rush or the figurative pressure of a big game situation. Blame it on his WRs, but guys like Favre and Manning make their receivers, not the other way around.

[RustShack]

Martz and Cutler with Weis and Cassel is the best case scenerio for both teams.

[Sure-Oz]

Chiefs Offense-TM-Chiefs Jan. 5 - 10:53 pm et

A league source tells SI.com that ex-Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis "actually might" end up as the Chiefs' offensive coordinator.
"I would expect a decision in the next couple days," the source said. Weis has reportedly been in constant communication with Kansas City since he was fired on November 30. He's worked with both GM Scott Pioli and coach Todd Haley previously, and has a history of getting the best out of quarterbacks.
Source: SI.com

[Mr_Tomahawk]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/charlie-weis-unlikely-to-land-with-bears.html

Charlie Weis unlikely to land with Bears
January 6, 2010 11:40 AM | No Comments
By Dan Pompei
One candidate for the Bears' offensive coordinator job who likely can be crossed off the list is Charlie Weis.

The former Notre Dame coach is far along in his discussions to join the Chiefs, and probably will become the offensive coordinator for Todd Haley soon.

It is possible that Weis could resurface as a candidate for the Bears job if talks broke off with the Chiefs, but a source close to the situation said no one expects that to happen.

The leading candidate for the Bears' position at this point could be USC assistant head coach/quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates. While in Denver, Bates was Jay Cutler's quarterbacks coach.

[Mr. Laz]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/charlie-weis-unlikely-to-land-with-bears.html

Charlie Weis unlikely to land with Bears
January 6, 2010 11:40 AM | No Comments
By Dan Pompei
One candidate for the Bears' offensive coordinator job who likely can be crossed off the list is Charlie Weis.

The former Notre Dame coach is far along in his discussions to join the Chiefs, and probably will become the offensive coordinator for Todd Haley soon.

It is possible that Weis could resurface as a candidate for the Bears job if talks broke off with the Chiefs, but a source close to the situation said no one expects that to happen.

The leading candidate for the Bears' position at this point could be USC assistant head coach/quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates. While in Denver, Bates was Jay Cutler's quarterbacks coach.
Let's hope Weis is a better OC than he was a college HC.


i still want a Quarterback's coach. :harumph:

[eazyb81]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/charlie-weis-unlikely-to-land-with-bears.html

Charlie Weis unlikely to land with Bears
January 6, 2010 11:40 AM | No Comments
By Dan Pompei
One candidate for the Bears' offensive coordinator job who likely can be crossed off the list is Charlie Weis.

The former Notre Dame coach is far along in his discussions to join the Chiefs, and probably will become the offensive coordinator for Todd Haley soon.

It is possible that Weis could resurface as a candidate for the Bears job if talks broke off with the Chiefs, but a source close to the situation said no one expects that to happen.

The leading candidate for the Bears' position at this point could be USC assistant head coach/quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates. While in Denver, Bates was Jay Cutler's quarterbacks coach.

Hell Yes!

Great news.

[Micjones]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/charlie-weis-unlikely-to-land-with-bears.html

Charlie Weis unlikely to land with Bears
January 6, 2010 11:40 AM | No Comments
By Dan Pompei
One candidate for the Bears' offensive coordinator job who likely can be crossed off the list is Charlie Weis.

The former Notre Dame coach is far along in his discussions to join the Chiefs, and probably will become the offensive coordinator for Todd Haley soon.

It is possible that Weis could resurface as a candidate for the Bears job if talks broke off with the Chiefs, but a source close to the situation said no one expects that to happen.

The leading candidate for the Bears' position at this point could be USC assistant head coach/quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates. While in Denver, Bates was Jay Cutler's quarterbacks coach.

Amazing news!
If we lose out on Crennel there will be other DC candidates we can snare.
I'm not sure there was another OC candidate comparable to Weis.

[Frazod]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/charlie-weis-unlikely-to-land-with-bears.html

Charlie Weis unlikely to land with Bears
January 6, 2010 11:40 AM | No Comments
By Dan Pompei
One candidate for the Bears' offensive coordinator job who likely can be crossed off the list is Charlie Weis.

The former Notre Dame coach is far along in his discussions to join the Chiefs, and probably will become the offensive coordinator for Todd Haley soon.

It is possible that Weis could resurface as a candidate for the Bears job if talks broke off with the Chiefs, but a source close to the situation said no one expects that to happen.

The leading candidate for the Bears' position at this point could be USC assistant head coach/quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates. While in Denver, Bates was Jay Cutler's quarterbacks coach.

I don't think he would end up in Chicago regardless of whether he signs with us. There is too much overlap in fan bases between the Bears and Notre Dame, and Weis isn't exactly Mr. Popularity among the domers right now.

[Titty Meat]

They were discussing this today on Mike & Mike. They made a good point about how Weis wants to be "the head coach of the offense" but Todd Haley probably just wants someone who's more of a consultant.

[DaWolf]

Let's hope Weis is a better OC than he was a college HC.


i still want a Quarterback's coach. :harumph:

It'll be interesting to see if they land Weis if we also make him QB coach. He did that with NE and Gailey was supposed to do both as well when he was the OC.

I'm with you though, I'd prefer to have a designated, qualified individual be the QB coach, but hell, as long as it's not Haley I'm good...

[DaWolf]

They were discussing this today on Mike & Mike. They made a good point about how Weis wants to be "the head coach of the offense" but Todd Haley probably just wants someone who's more of a consultant.

If I'm Weis, I want assurances that the play calling will be mine and mine alone.

I think Haley realizes that Weis is probably looking to angle any gig he gets into another shot at running someone's show, so he probably sees Weis as a short term guy who he can hand that part of the team to, and then when Weis departs step back into it once things are more stable (sort of like what happened in Zona between himself and Whiz).

Haley also probably wants someone who he could trust implicitly with the offense, which is why Weis makes sense, since they know each other pretty well...

[Titty Meat]

It'll be interesting to see if they land Weis if we also make him QB coach. He did that with NE and Gailey was supposed to do both as well when he was the OC.

I'm with you though, I'd prefer to have a designated, qualified individual be the QB coach, but hell, as long as it's not Haley I'm good...

I don't know anyone else in the NFL who would be a better QB coach for Cassel than Charlie Weis. I'd also like to groom that young guy (forget his name) I think hes the quality control coach or something into the next Josh McDaniels.

[SAUTO]

No, I don't think Cassel could have taken Denver to a better record, nor compiled better statistics. And I definitely don't see him throwing fewer INT's than Orton, considering he threw just as many in NE surrounded by the dynasty of the decade.



Oh yeah, Chicago's offensive talent is worse than ours, at least for this season.

The OL's are probably a wash.

The RB's are hard to judge, because both are young, and they are different kind of runners.

But Chicago's WR were trash.

For a single season, I'd take Bowe/Chambers/Wade over Hester/Knox/Aromushdu every time, no questions asked.

If I were thinking about the future, however, I'd prefer to have Bowe, Knox and Aromushdu, and take my lumps while they learn.

That's the thing: Cutler leaves Denver, where he had Marshall, Royal and Scheffler to throw to - and goes to Chicago, throws to that crew, and the only statistic that suffered was his INT total.

Part of that was trying to do to much, part of it was young, inexperienced WR's running bad routes, the wrong routes, and learning on the fly.
ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

[OnTheWarpath15]

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Another well thought out response.

How many Bears games did you watch?

How many e-mail conversations did you have with Jim Miller, former Bears QB and Sirius NFL Radio host discussing that very subject?

How many times have you watched Bears Post Game live on CSN Chicago, where this topic was discussed no less than 5 times?

That's what I thought.

[Bill Lundberg]

Another well thought out response.

How many Bears games did you watch?

How many e-mail conversations did you have with Jim Miller, former Bears QB and Sirius NFL Radio host discussing that very subject?

How many times have you watched Bears Post Game live on CSN Chicago, where this topic was discussed no less than 5 times?

That's what I thought.

Name dropper

[OnTheWarpath15]

Name dropper

Sorry. Just making a point.

Knowing Sauto, he'll want e-mail records, taped conversations, etc.

The conversations did happen, and Miller has said he knows for fact that while Cutler's decision making does need to improve, his INT numbers have been affected this year due to his young inexperienced WR corp.

[carlos3652]

OTWP, could that bolded phrase not be said about Cassel as well?

[SAUTO]

Another well thought out response.

How many Bears games did you watch?

How many e-mail conversations did you have with Jim Miller, former Bears QB and Sirius NFL Radio host discussing that very subject?

How many times have you watched Bears Post Game live on CSN Chicago, where this topic was discussed no less than 5 times?

That's what I thought.

SO jim miller the FORMER GM knows exactly where the WRs are supposed to be and what plays were called? maybe they were making EXCUSES for the acquisition.


what i really find humorous is that you are here making excuses for cutler but all those drops by KC WRs are cassel's fault. right?


again you are proving what a hypocrit you are.

and i watched most bears games i have them as my local channels

[OnTheWarpath15]

OTWP, could that bolded phrase not be said about Cassel as well?

You mean this?

Part of that was trying to do to much, part of it was young, inexperienced WR's running bad routes, the wrong routes, and learning on the fly.

No, I don't think so.

Bowe, Chambers, Wade, Bradley - all guys that have been in the league 3+ years, and have all, with the exception of Bradley, some level of success in the NFL.

Devin Hester is a KR convert, Knox is a 5th round rookie and Aromashodu is a 3rd year 7th round pick seeing the field for the first time.

[OnTheWarpath15]

SO jim miller the FORMER GM knows exactly where the WRs are supposed to be and what plays were called? maybe they were making EXCUSES for the acquisition.


what i really find humorous is that you are here making excuses for cutler but all those drops by KC WRs are cassel's fault. right?


again you are proving what a hypocrit you are.

and i watched most bears games i have them as my local channels

Jim Miller is a former QUARTERBACK.

As someone that is still employed by the Bears, knows the personnel and playbook and understands the responsibilities of both the QB and WR's, then yeah, I trust his opinion.

If you've ever listened to him on Sirius, or on CSN Chicago, you'd know he's as fair and balanced an analyst as there is.

We know you trust nothing, and no one, so I'm talking to a brick wall.

I shouldn't even waste my time.

[carlos3652]

You mean this?

Part of that was trying to do to much, part of it was young, inexperienced WR's running bad routes, the wrong routes, and learning on the fly.

No, I don't think so.

Bowe, Chambers, Wade, Bradley - all guys that have been in the league 3+ years, and have all, with the exception of Bradley, some level of success in the NFL.

Devin Hester is a KR convert, Knox is a 5th round rookie and Aromashodu is a 3rd year 7th round pick seeing the field for the first time.

as it related to the offensive scheme being new, wouldnt Chambers have a hard time gettting on board and Wade and Bowe and Bradley running new routes, new plays?

[SAUTO]

You mean this?

Part of that was trying to do to much, part of it was young, inexperienced WR's running bad routes, the wrong routes, and learning on the fly.

No, I don't think so.

Bowe, Chambers, Wade, Bradley - all guys that have been in the league 3+ years, and have all, with the exception of Bradley, some level of success in the NFL.

Devin Hester is a KR convert, Knox is a 5th round rookie and Aromashodu is a 3rd year 7th round pick seeing the field for the first time.

Yet every one of them had problems LINING UP at some point or another, But you are right lets ASSUME that they ran the right routes.:rolleyes:

[OnTheWarpath15]

as it related to the offensive scheme being new, wouldnt Chambers have a hard time gettting on board and Wade and Bowe and Bradley running new routes, new plays?

Routes don't change.

Terminology does, but not the actual route.

You could make the claim that the timing between the QB and WR's could have been off, but if you watched closely, Cassel wasn't operating on timing, he was waiting for the WR to actually get open, and then throwing the ball.

Which is part of the reason why he was sacked as many times as he was, he was waiting for the WR to get open, instead of throwing before the WR makes their break, like good QB's do.

It also explains part of his completion percentage, because waiting gives away any advantage you may have had over the DB, because he now has time to react and defend the late pass.

[SAUTO]

Jim Miller is a former QUARTERBACK.

As someone that is still employed by the Bears, knows the personnel and playbook and understands the responsibilities of both the QB and WR's, then yeah, I trust his opinion.

If you've ever listened to him on Sirius, or on CSN Chicago, you'd know he's as fair and balanced an analyst as there is.

We know you trust nothing, and no one, so I'm talking to a brick wall.

I shouldn't even waste my time.

Thank You. he is employed by the bears. like i said i saw most bears games and cutler sucked almost all year. then to throw an INT and walk off and laugh on the sideline.... douchebag.

[Skip Towne]

Who wouldn't want to work for Todd Haley?

Or rather who would? Working for a hothead n00b who isn't on the firmest ground hmself?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yet every one of them had problems LINING UP at some point or another, But you are right lets ASSUME that they ran the right routes.:rolleyes:

You're the only person assuming anything.

I've taken information and analysis from a former QB explaining part of the reason why Cutler's INT numbers are inflated, and you're trying to use it as an excuse for why Cassel sucked this year, without any evidence whatsoever.

FWIW, formation is determined by terminology.

Ex: (and a VERY basic one)

Ace Right 12 X-slant Z-post

Ace Right is the formation, 12 is the personnel grouping (1 back, 2 TE's) and tells the players where to line up

X-Dig means the X receiver runs a slant route

Z-Go means the Z receiver runs a post route.

Some teams would list it as Ace Right, 28.

The 2 designates the slant, and the 8 designates the post.


The routes themselves don't change.

Chambers didn't have to re-learn to run a post, or a slant, or a post-corner.

He just had to learn the terminology, which is why LINING UP was a problem.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Thank You. he is employed by the bears. like i said i saw most bears games and cutler sucked almost all year. then to throw an INT and walk off and laugh on the sideline.... douchebag.

Wow.

And people think I'M cynical.

Jim Miller's opinion is worthless because he's on the payroll, and because your eyes can't possibly be deceiving you.

Got it.

[SAUTO]

You're the only person assuming anything.

I've taken information and analysis from a former QB explaining part of the reason why Cutler's INT numbers are inflated, and you're trying to use it as an excuse for why Cassel sucked this year, without any evidence whatsoever.

FWIW, formation is determined by terminology.

Ex: (and a VERY basic one)

Ace Right 12 X-slant Z-post

Ace Right is the formation, 12 is the personnel grouping (1 back, 2 TE's) and tells the players where to line up

X-Dig means the X receiver runs a slant route

Z-Go means the Z receiver runs a post route.

Some teams would list it as Ace Right, 28.

The 2 designates the slant, and the 8 designates the post.


The routes themselves don't change.

Chambers didn't have to re-learn to run a post, or a slant, or a post-corner.

He just had to learn the terminology, which is why LINING UP was a problem.

and you are still assuming that our wrs were in the right spot at the right times

[SAUTO]

Wow.

And people think I'M cynical.

Jim Miller's opinion is worthless because he's on the payroll, and because your eyes can't possibly be deceiving you.

Got it.

so do you believe everything dawson and gretz say?

[OnTheWarpath15]

so do you believe everything dawson and gretz say?

Gretz was an ex-player?

I hold Lenny Dawson's opinion in high regard. His opinion would definitely carry more weight when it comes to the QB position.

[Mr. Laz]

They were discussing this today on Mike & Mike. They made a good point about how Weis wants to be "the head coach of the offense" but Todd Haley probably just wants someone who's more of a consultant.
they were wrong ... Haley talk about wanting someone to run the offense for him next year. He also almost gave Weis a verbal blow job during his press conference.

[OnTheWarpath15]

and you are still assuming that our wrs were in the right spot at the right times

I have no evidence to think they weren't. And again, you're confusing the running of a route with lining up correctly. They are independent of each other.

You want to think it's true without any evidence so you can make an excuse for Captain Checkdown.

[Titty Meat]

So was this press confrence even worth listening to? Because to be honest every other press confrence this year didn't even deserve a thread.

[OnTheWarpath15]

So was this press confrence even worth listening to? Because to be honest every other press confrence this year didn't even deserve a thread.

Wrong thread.

LMAO

[Titty Meat]

Wrong thread.

LMAO

I know I just woke up from a nap after the oven was burning. Laz had mentioned in this thread that Haley was giving Weis a verbal bj.

[SAUTO]

Gretz was an ex-player?

I hold Lenny Dawson's opinion in high regard. His opinion would definitely carry more weight when it comes to the QB position.

no gretz didnt play as far as i know, but he's been around long enough to know about what he's talking about IMO.

you should have listened to dawson after the cleveland game and what he said in regards to cassel.

[OnTheWarpath15]

no gretz didnt play as far as i know, but he's been around long enough to know about what he's talking about IMO.

you should have listened to dawson after the cleveland game and what he said in regards to cassel.

This ought to be good, considering I attended the Cleveland game, and listened to the post game show uninterrupted until I reached Columbia, and lost signal.

I don't recall him saying anything that made Cassel look like a superstar, as a matter of fact, I vividly recall him criticizing the "hail mary" and his overall decision making.

Did he say some nice things, but that tends to happen when it's Week 15 and this is your first game over 265 yards passing.