B_Ambuehl
01-11-2010, 11:11 AM
The fact that someone could actually make that argument with a straight face and stats to back it up is absolutely hilarious. Here's the article:
http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/1795
Cassell vs Thigpen
Now that the season is over, it’s time to compare the two quarterbacks. The Chiefs had Thigpen for a fraction of the cost of Cassel. Since it isn’t my money (at least not directly), I’m not going to sweat it. But, if you are going to stink up the joint anyway, you might as well do it on the cheap. Of course, the hope is that Cassel will end up being something that Thigpen never could. Perhaps, but it’s still valid to compare the two after one year each.
The first thing I want to do is to quote Sam’s post a few days ago. This is a great paragraph. “He's the first quarterback since 1995 -- hello, Rick Mirer! -- to throw 16 or fewer touchdowns, 16 or more picks, get sacked 42 or more times, and finish with a quarterback rating under 70. He quarterbacked a 4-12 team and was the sixth-highest paid quarterback with the 25th-highest rating.”
That pretty much sums up Cassel’s season. Most fans are disappointed, but the jury is still out. Nevertheless, Cassel had basically the same tools with which to work as did Thigpen, so a comparison is fair.
By the way, I want to thank Tom Hook for this idea. His arguments were that Thigpen not only had a better 2008 than Cassel had in 2009, but that Thigpen would have been a better long-term solution (never mind the price). He recognizes that stats only tell part of the story…
“Obviously, stats will prove only partially illuminating. For example, I don’t know if there are statistical measures that shed light on ‘Playmaking’ but I maintain Thigpen is a playmaker and Cassel is not. Thigpen could make something out of nothing and for long stretches was virtually the only threat the ‘08 Chiefs had going on the offensive side of the ball. How does one quantify bonehead plays – like Cassel throwing to Savage in the flat as time ran out, with the Chiefs in easy FG territory -- or savvy plays, like Thigpen making things happen with his legs or jump-passing a 2 pt conversion to Cox with a Raider in his face? Similarly, how does one measure how fellow teammates respond to a player? Thigpen had major support from players like Gonzalez. Who has raved about playing with Cassel?”
I don’t dwell in the world of subjectivity very often. I comment on what can be measured. So, although the above analysis appears valid, what matters to me are the measurable, objective facts. Here they are.
I’m only going to evaluate Thigpen beginning with game #7 of the 2008 season. The first six games were a toss-up as to who would be playing between Huard, Croyle and Thigpen. A fan wants to know how Thigpen performed when he was the established starting quarterback – the same as Cassel.
Of course, that leads to a fair question as to whether Cassel should be evaluated on all his starts or only on the last 10 games (same as Thigpen). Cassel actually benefits from adding the first five games (missed game #1). So, I will take the best case scenario for both – the final 10 games for Thigpen and all 15 games for Cassel.
QB--YPG--RYpg---Com%--TDpg-- INTpg--SKpg-- Rat
Thig- 221.6-32.5----58.2%-- 1.6----0.8-----2.6----83.6
Cass-194.9--12.6----55.0%---1.1---1.1-----2.8----70.2
-
PYpg – Passing Yards per game; RYpg – Rushing Yards per game; Com% - Completion percentage; TDpg – Passing TDs per game; INTpg – Interceptions per game; SKpg – Sacked per game; Rat – Average QB rating.
There are a number of things to point out here. The first item is that Thigpen leads in every single category! No matter what, you would expect Cassel to lead in something, but no.
The QB rating sucks miserably as I explained in a recent post. However, it is mostly bad when looking at individual games. Over the course of a season, the average rating is far better. Keep in mind that rushing yards per game and sacks are not factored into the QB rating. Even so, Thigpen was superior on both.
Back to the QB rating, the worst game Thigpen had was a 61.0. And, even in that game he passed for 320 yards – his career high! All the rest of his games were 70+. Cassel, on the other hand, had almost half of his games under 70 – including two that were under 15!
By any objective measurement, Thigpen’s 2008 season was superior to Cassel’s 2009 season.
I realize Thigpen was 1-9 in his games vs 4-11 for Cassel, but I fail to see how that was Thigpen’s fault. His relatively strong play is what allowed the Chiefs to stay within 10 points of their opponents in all but one game. As we painfully recall in 2009, Cassel started five contests in which the Chiefs were beaten worse than 10 points. In the 10 games with Thigpen, the Chiefs were beaten by an average of 5.9 ppg. In the 15 games with Cassel, KC was beaten by an average of 7.7.
I’ll let Tom have the last word.
“In addition to Thigpen’s better athleticism and better Chiefs’ statistics I think it is also relevant, when comparing him to Cassel, to recall that Thigpen had no major college experience, less NFL experience, was younger (2 years), and was working with his third offensive coordinator in two years (and, arguably, his fourth offensive scheme if you count Gailey), all of which suggests that Thigpen’s best football is still to come. Just as with Rich Gannon, I suspect Thigpen will get ultimately get an opportunity and the Chiefs, again, will have to play ‘what might have been.’”
http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/1795
Cassell vs Thigpen
Now that the season is over, it’s time to compare the two quarterbacks. The Chiefs had Thigpen for a fraction of the cost of Cassel. Since it isn’t my money (at least not directly), I’m not going to sweat it. But, if you are going to stink up the joint anyway, you might as well do it on the cheap. Of course, the hope is that Cassel will end up being something that Thigpen never could. Perhaps, but it’s still valid to compare the two after one year each.
The first thing I want to do is to quote Sam’s post a few days ago. This is a great paragraph. “He's the first quarterback since 1995 -- hello, Rick Mirer! -- to throw 16 or fewer touchdowns, 16 or more picks, get sacked 42 or more times, and finish with a quarterback rating under 70. He quarterbacked a 4-12 team and was the sixth-highest paid quarterback with the 25th-highest rating.”
That pretty much sums up Cassel’s season. Most fans are disappointed, but the jury is still out. Nevertheless, Cassel had basically the same tools with which to work as did Thigpen, so a comparison is fair.
By the way, I want to thank Tom Hook for this idea. His arguments were that Thigpen not only had a better 2008 than Cassel had in 2009, but that Thigpen would have been a better long-term solution (never mind the price). He recognizes that stats only tell part of the story…
“Obviously, stats will prove only partially illuminating. For example, I don’t know if there are statistical measures that shed light on ‘Playmaking’ but I maintain Thigpen is a playmaker and Cassel is not. Thigpen could make something out of nothing and for long stretches was virtually the only threat the ‘08 Chiefs had going on the offensive side of the ball. How does one quantify bonehead plays – like Cassel throwing to Savage in the flat as time ran out, with the Chiefs in easy FG territory -- or savvy plays, like Thigpen making things happen with his legs or jump-passing a 2 pt conversion to Cox with a Raider in his face? Similarly, how does one measure how fellow teammates respond to a player? Thigpen had major support from players like Gonzalez. Who has raved about playing with Cassel?”
I don’t dwell in the world of subjectivity very often. I comment on what can be measured. So, although the above analysis appears valid, what matters to me are the measurable, objective facts. Here they are.
I’m only going to evaluate Thigpen beginning with game #7 of the 2008 season. The first six games were a toss-up as to who would be playing between Huard, Croyle and Thigpen. A fan wants to know how Thigpen performed when he was the established starting quarterback – the same as Cassel.
Of course, that leads to a fair question as to whether Cassel should be evaluated on all his starts or only on the last 10 games (same as Thigpen). Cassel actually benefits from adding the first five games (missed game #1). So, I will take the best case scenario for both – the final 10 games for Thigpen and all 15 games for Cassel.
QB--YPG--RYpg---Com%--TDpg-- INTpg--SKpg-- Rat
Thig- 221.6-32.5----58.2%-- 1.6----0.8-----2.6----83.6
Cass-194.9--12.6----55.0%---1.1---1.1-----2.8----70.2
-
PYpg – Passing Yards per game; RYpg – Rushing Yards per game; Com% - Completion percentage; TDpg – Passing TDs per game; INTpg – Interceptions per game; SKpg – Sacked per game; Rat – Average QB rating.
There are a number of things to point out here. The first item is that Thigpen leads in every single category! No matter what, you would expect Cassel to lead in something, but no.
The QB rating sucks miserably as I explained in a recent post. However, it is mostly bad when looking at individual games. Over the course of a season, the average rating is far better. Keep in mind that rushing yards per game and sacks are not factored into the QB rating. Even so, Thigpen was superior on both.
Back to the QB rating, the worst game Thigpen had was a 61.0. And, even in that game he passed for 320 yards – his career high! All the rest of his games were 70+. Cassel, on the other hand, had almost half of his games under 70 – including two that were under 15!
By any objective measurement, Thigpen’s 2008 season was superior to Cassel’s 2009 season.
I realize Thigpen was 1-9 in his games vs 4-11 for Cassel, but I fail to see how that was Thigpen’s fault. His relatively strong play is what allowed the Chiefs to stay within 10 points of their opponents in all but one game. As we painfully recall in 2009, Cassel started five contests in which the Chiefs were beaten worse than 10 points. In the 10 games with Thigpen, the Chiefs were beaten by an average of 5.9 ppg. In the 15 games with Cassel, KC was beaten by an average of 7.7.
I’ll let Tom have the last word.
“In addition to Thigpen’s better athleticism and better Chiefs’ statistics I think it is also relevant, when comparing him to Cassel, to recall that Thigpen had no major college experience, less NFL experience, was younger (2 years), and was working with his third offensive coordinator in two years (and, arguably, his fourth offensive scheme if you count Gailey), all of which suggests that Thigpen’s best football is still to come. Just as with Rich Gannon, I suspect Thigpen will get ultimately get an opportunity and the Chiefs, again, will have to play ‘what might have been.’”