So did everyone catch NFL live today?

[Mecca]

I just caught the replay where they basically all said Robert Meachem didn't catch the ball.....so uh yea who's blind and why was there a giant argument about this?

It actually made me laugh how many comically bad calls they pointed out from that game.

[RealSNR]

It could've gone either way. I saw his hand under the ball and that's probably what they couldn't call indisputable.

Other calls.... yeah, those were BS.

[ChiefJustice]

Have you ever thought of building ships in a bottle?

[Silock]

Have you ever thought of building ships in a bottle?

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=loch+ness&sll=56.660755,-5.059891&sspn=0.255862,0.606308&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Loch+Ness,+United+Kingdom&t=h&layer=c&cbll=57.226109,-4.572287&panoid=ApPA1rwguy7D-Kl8q6i0bw&cbp=12,134.08,,0,11.53&ll=57.226183,-4.572179&spn=0.010047,0.01545&z=16

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=12.322317,40.253906&ie=UTF8&ll=51.514959,-0.228567&spn=0.001582,0.004914&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=51.514926,-0.228765&panoid=cRXQyRB9ywmaZVKuBSddWw&cbp=12,146.0064180401871,,2,-12.084480108548325

[Mastashake]

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=loch+ness&sll=56.660755,-5.059891&sspn=0.255862,0.606308&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Loch+Ness,+United+Kingdom&t=h&layer=c&cbll=57.226109,-4.572287&panoid=ApPA1rwguy7D-Kl8q6i0bw&cbp=12,134.08,,0,11.53&ll=57.226183,-4.572179&spn=0.010047,0.01545&z=16

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=12.322317,40.253906&ie=UTF8&ll=51.514959,-0.228567&spn=0.001582,0.004914&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=51.514926,-0.228765&panoid=cRXQyRB9ywmaZVKuBSddWw&cbp=12,146.0064180401871,,2,-12.084480108548325

Badass... Stig rep!

[The Bad Guy]

There was no way in hell he caught that ball. The ball was laying on the ground and he just had it pulled toward his body.

The Vikings made a ton of mistakes, but they got jobbed on that call and the spot on the Thomas 4th down. The ball shifted backwards when he got hit. I just don't get it.

[Pioli Zombie]

Tough shit. Don't fumble the ball 6 times.
Posted via Mobile Device

[PhillyChiefFan]

There was no way in hell he caught that ball. The ball was laying on the ground and he just had it pulled toward his body.

The Vikings made a ton of mistakes, but they got jobbed on that call and the spot on the Thomas 4th down. The ball shifted backwards when he got hit. I just don't get it.

The spot was BS, but I thiink the biggest BS call I have EVER seen was the DPI call on Leber...my God, it was abismal.

I'm no Vikings fan, but they got robbed.

[InChiefsHeaven]

If you leave the game in the hands of the officials because you turn the damn ball over 5 times...it's your fault you lost the game. The Vikings lost the game. Get over it.

[-King-]

So mecca, the person who always talks shit on analysts and what not is taking their word now?


Someone needs to get a gif of it. You could NOT see the ball unless you could see through meachams arm.
Posted via Mobile Device

[-King-]

The spot was BS, but I thiink the biggest BS call I have EVER seen was the DPI call on Leber...my God, it was abismal.

I'm no Vikings fan, but they got robbed.


Its not like they had a few calls go their way...
Posted via Mobile Device

[Deberg_1990]

The fact that so many people are argueing both ways should tell us all it was not indisputable.

So call was not overturned.

[Pushead2]

Badass... Stig rep!

indeed...

[milkman]

Stop the bleeding, mecca.

[BigMeatballDave]

The Vikings should have taken care of the football.

[Nzoner]

...and the Broncos cheated by having a foreign substance on their uniforms,and Gonzo's catch was a TD and the flag thrown late on the FG attempt.......

[Marcellus]

If you leave the game in the hands of the officials because you turn the damn ball over 5 times...it's your fault you lost the game. The Vikings lost the game. Get over it.

Why is that so hard to understand? Did the refs make Favre throw that retarded pass?


Yea this deserved another thread.

[Mile High Mania]

Every game... refs make mistakes. Bottom line is that despite the fumbles, blown calls, etc... the Vikings were in position to win the game at the end of regulation.

12 men in the huddle... back 'em up. It was 3rd and 10 at the 33 before that 5 yard penalty... very much in range for Longwell.

Now it's 3rd and 15 at the 38... starting to really push the limit for Longwell, but get back a few yards and don't make a mistake. So, Favre rolls right and makes a stupid pass over the middle... turn it over.

Game over - they go to OT and never get the ball back.

Blame the refs if you want, but MIN made two critical mistakes when it mattered most.

[BigMeatballDave]

Every game... refs make mistakes. Bottom line is that despite the fumbles, blown calls, etc... the Vikings were in position to win the game at the end of regulation.

12 men in the huddle... back 'em up. It was 3rd and 10 at the 33 before that 5 yard penalty... very much in range for Longwell.

Now it's 3rd and 15 at the 38... starting to really push the limit for Longwell, but get back a few yards and don't make a mistake. So, Favre rolls right and makes a stupid pass over the middle... turn it over.

Game over - they go to OT and never get the ball back.

Blame the refs if you want, but MIN made two critical mistakes when it mattered most.Not to mention all the other turnovers. The refs had very little to do with Minnesota losing.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Paul Allen, the PBP guy for the Vikings was on Sirius this morning, and said something I found interesting.

It had been reported that Longwell told the coaching staff in pre-game that his range was 53 yards.

According to Allen, this is incorrect.

He said that Longwell didn't ATTEMPT a kick longer than 53 yards in pregame, but hit all of his practice kicks from that distance, and put them all into the net - which means he had the distance to hit from 57-58 yards.

Obviously, a FG that long is no gimme. But throwing the ball away at least gives Minnesota a chance to win, and Favre picking up any yardage helps the cause.

Had Favre ran and picked up the 5-8 yards that the Saints were giving him on that play, the Vikings are playing the Colts in two weeks, IMO.

[MOhillbilly]

SCOREBOARD!

[CoMoChief]

Meachem didn't catch the ball

The Horrible PI call, They even did a freeze shot of where the PI was called and you could see the Vikings player didn't even touch the NO wideout. NO player just fell backwards.
HORRIBLE call. And when the game is on the line like that, you don't make bad calls like that.

Horrible ball spot on the Pierre Thomas fumble when it was 4th n inches.

All of this happened in a span of like 7-8 plays. Just terrible.

Of course theres the argument that "It wouldn't have happened had Vikings not turned the ball over before regulation ended". That's beside the point, because it was the refs that lost this game for MIN.

[milkman]

Paul Allen, the PBP guy for the Vikings was on Sirius this morning, and said something I found interesting.

It had been reported that Longwell told the coaching staff in pre-game that his range was 53 yards.

According to Allen, this is incorrect.

He said that Longwell didn't ATTEMPT a kick longer than 53 yards in pregame, but hit all of his practice kicks from that distance, and put them all into the net - which means he had the distance to hit from 57-58 yards.

Obviously, a FG that long is no gimme. But throwing the ball away at least gives Minnesota a chance to win, and Favre picking up any yardage helps the cause.

Had Favre ran and picked up the 5-8 yards that the Saints were giving him on that play, the Vikings are playing the Colts in two weeks, IMO.

It's that kin of stupidity by Favre, throughout his career, that has always lead me to believe that he is one of the most overhyped, overrated QBs in NFL history.

You simply can not keep giving the ball away at the rate he has throughout his career, both in the regular season and the playoffs, and expect to win championships, and is the reason that he has only won one, with teams that had the talent to win more.

Had he continued to show the same good judgement in the game against the Saints as he had finally shown during the regular season, the Vikings would be playing in Miami.

But he made not one, but two really bad decisions and threw two picks in that game as a result.

[morphius]

That game ended pretty terribly. I thought it looked pretty obvious that the ball hit the ground on the catch. The PI was a joke, where the guy feel backwards after pushing off. On the 4th down spot though, I thought it looked like the ball got pushed backwards but didn't ever come loose, unless I didn't see enough of it.

[milkman]

Meachem didn't catch the ball

The Horrible PI call, They even did a freeze shot of where the PI was called and you could see the Vikings player didn't even touch the NO wideout. NO player just fell backwards.
HORRIBLE call. And when the game is on the line like that, you don't make bad calls like that.

Horrible ball spot on the Pierre Thomas fumble when it was 4th n inches.

All of this happened in a span of like 7-8 plays. Just terrible.

Of course theres the argument that "It wouldn't have happened had Vikings not turned the ball over before regulation ended". That's beside the point, because it was the refs that lost this game for MIN.

Crying about refs is a loser's argument.

[Frazod]

All penalties should be subject to booth review and be challengable. Of course, this will never happen, as it would basically take away the league's ability to fix games. And God knows we can't let that happen.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It's that kin of stupidity by Favre, throughout his career, that has always lead me to believe that he is one of the most overhyped, overrated QBs in NFL history.

You simply can not keep giving the ball away at the rate he has throughout his career, both in the regular season and the playoffs, and expect to win championships, and is the reason that he has only won one, with teams that had the talent to win more.

Had he continued to show the same good judgement in the game against the Saints as he had finally shown during the regular season, the Vikings would be playing in Miami.

But he made not one, but two really bad decisions and threw two picks in that game as a result.

The Saints did in that game exactly what they'll try to do to Peyton Manning:

Hit the fuck out of him, knowing that that punishment will eventually lead to mistakes. Manning is similar to Favre in that regard, he seems to make mistakes when he's getting hit often.

Allen made a good point in the interview regarding Favre's possible return.

He's got to be thinking that if he comes back, that every team they play are going to use the Saints blueprint against him - and he'll take a beating every week, instead of just a game here or there.

[morphius]

All penalties should be subject to booth review and be challengable. Of course, this will never happen, as it would basically take away the league's ability to fix games. And God knows we can't let that happen.
And the review should be done by a booth team that get's assigned different refs every week, not a guy on the field with his team of refs.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Crying about refs is a loser's argument.

This.

Even more so when the team in question turned the ball over FIVE TIMES.

[Bane]

All penalties should be subject to booth review and be challengable. Of course, this will never happen, as it would basically take away the league's ability to fix games. And God knows we can't let that happen.

And it would take 5 hours to play a game.

[Bane]

This.

Even more so when the team in question turned the ball over FIVE TIMES.

The refs caused the turnovers too.ROFL
Like that buffalo wild wings overtime commercial!

[Nzoner]

All penalties should be subject to booth review and be challengable. Of course, this will never happen, as it would basically take away the league's ability to fix games. And God knows we can't let that happen.


You've learned well grasshopper :D

[morphius]

This.

Even more so when the team in question turned the ball over FIVE TIMES.
Yup, nobody should ever criticize the refs. Hell, we probably should be too critical of the players or the coaching or the GM... Maybe we can all just hold hands and sing Disney tunes by a camp fire...


(sorry, never understood why we can't bitch about any part of the game we feel like)

[Dartgod]

That's beside the point, because it was the refs that lost this game for MIN.
ROFL

[BigCatDaddy]

Like or not, when it comes to most sports especially basketball and football the home teams get the calls. NO won more games and earned the right to get those calls.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yup, nobody should ever criticize the refs. Hell, we probably should be too critical of the players or the coaching or the GM... Maybe we can all just hold hands and sing Disney tunes by a camp fire...


(sorry, never understood why we can't bitch about any part of the game we feel like)

Criticizing the officiating, and blaming them for the Vikings loss are two different things.

The officiating was horrible. No questions asked.

But that's not the reason Minnesota lost.

[CoMoChief]

Crying about refs is a loser's argument.

Favre didn't lose the game for MIN, Favre caused the game to go into OT.

It was in OT, where the refs lost it for MIN. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.

Yes Favre's INT was a major **** up, but the game wasn't over at that point. There were still 3 major key points in OT that allowed NO to kick that FG:

- The horrible PI call, where there was no contact and not only that, it was an uncatchable ball.

- The ball spot on the Pierre Thomas fumble. There's no excuse for that when you have a chance to review the play.

- Robert Meachem dropping that pass. They even showed on ESPN that was a dropped pass. Once again, this can not happen when the refs got the chance to review the play.

That's 3 major fuck ups on the refs part that allowed NO to keep the football in sudden death OT.

[wild1]

the Vikings radio guys agreed it was a catch, and they are the biggest homers you'll find anywhere.

[Frazod]

And it would take 5 hours to play a game.

So what? We have the technology to get it right. SO FUCKING GET IT RIGHT.

Why is that so hard? Some ref watching a play in front of him thinks he sees something, throws a flag, yet replay from every single camera on the field shows he was clearly, obviously wrong. What the hell is wrong with an official in the booth telling him to change the call? It shouldn't even have to take that long on most calls. If you and I and Al Michaels can see the call was wrong, why can't a booth official?

[morphius]

Criticizing the officiating, and blaming them for the Vikings loss are two different things.

The officiating was horrible. No questions asked.

But that's not the reason Minnesota lost.
It may not be the reason, but it may be part of the reason they lost... Which would make it pretty much fair game in my book. Of course you can't say that it is the only reason they lost, but damn, that many bad calls on the game deciding drive should count for something...

[milkman]

Favre didn't lose the game for MIN, Favre caused the game to go into OT.

It was in OT, where the refs lost it for MIN. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to tell you.

Yes Favre's INT was a major **** up, but the game wasn't over at that point. There were still 3 major key points in OT that allowed NO to kick that FG. MIN never got the ball back.

If Favre doesn't throw that stupid pick at the end of regualtion, and picks up the 4 or 5 yards that was in front of him, then Longwell gets a chance to win it in regulation, and the Saints never get the ****ing ball in OT.

That pick lost the ****ing game, and crying about the officiating that had been horrible throughout the ****ing game is a loser crying.

[Bane]

So what? We have the technology to get it right. SO ****ING GET IT RIGHT.

Why is that so hard? Some ref watching a play in front of him thinks he sees something, throws a flag, yet replay from every single camera on the field shows he was clearly, obviously wrong. What the hell is wrong with an official in the booth telling him to change the call? It shouldn't even have to take that long on most calls. If you and I and Al Michaels can see the call was wrong, why can't a booth official?

I'm all for them getting the right call,but I just don't see them putting that much time into it.They'll claim that human error is just a part of the game you can't take away and move on.
I'd like to see them get it right every single time as well,but it will never happen IMO.
Kinda like in baseball with their little strike zone computer,the ump call balls strikes all the time,but they'll never switch to using that as an official.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It may not be the reason, but it may be part of the reason they lost... Which would make it pretty much fair game in my book. Of course you can't say that it is the only reason they lost, but damn, that many bad calls on the game deciding drive should count for something...

The Vikings are never in that position if they get even a single FG on EITHER of the drives that ended with fumbles inside the Saints 10 yard line.

Hell, watch the replay on the Favre-AP exchange fumble. Hutchinson absolutely destroyed his man, AP was going to literally walk into the EZ.

The Vikings have NO ONE to blame but themselves.

[OnTheWarpath15]

If Favre doesn't throw that stupid pick at the end of regualtion, and picks up the 4 or 5 yards that was in front of him, then Longwell gets a chance to win it in regulation, and the Saints never get the ****ing ball in OT.

That pick lost the ****ing game, and crying about the officiating that had been horrible throughout the ****ing game is a loser crying.

Notice no one is complaining about the shitty calls against the Saints that extended two different scoring drives for Minnesota earlier in the game.

[milkman]

So what? We have the technology to get it right. SO ****ING GET IT RIGHT.

Why is that so hard? Some ref watching a play in front of him thinks he sees something, throws a flag, yet replay from every single camera on the field shows he was clearly, obviously wrong. What the hell is wrong with an official in the booth telling him to change the call? It shouldn't even have to take that long on most calls. If you and I and Al Michaels can see the call was wrong, why can't a booth official?

The fact is, even with this technology, even plays that get reviewed, they still don't get it right about half the time.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The fact is, even with this technology, even plays that get reviewed, they still don't get it right about half the time.

And people keep forgetting (or ignoring) the most important part of the replay rule:

There must be CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE to over turn the ruling on the field.

There's not a single camera shot that shows CONCLUSIVELY that the pass in question hit the ground.

You can assume it did, but the referee cannot.

He has to actually SEE it hit the ground.

[milkman]

Notice no one is complaining about the shitty calls against the Saints that extended two different scoring drives for Minnesota earlier in the game.

In the heatt of the moment, I will bitch and moan about bad calls made by officials, but in the end, they fuck up on both sides.

I see people still bitching and moaning about calls made against the Chiefs in the playoffs in the 90s that "cost them the game", but the fact is, the only thing that cost the Chiefs those games is the players and the coaches.

Bad calls happen all the fucking time.

When it's all said and done, Teams lose games, not officials.

[morphius]

The Vikings are never in that position if they get even a single FG on EITHER of the drives that ended with fumbles inside the Saints 10 yard line.

Hell, watch the replay on the Favre-AP exchange fumble. Hutchinson absolutely destroyed his man, AP was going to literally walk into the EZ.

The Vikings have NO ONE to blame but themselves.
Absolutely, doesn't mean I'm going to give terrible ref's a break.

Plus I like to leave my options open for equal opportunity bitching when Denver gets BS calls that let them win games :D

[Brock]

Crying about refs again, Mecca? That's pathetic.

[OnTheWarpath15]

In the heatt of the moment, I will bitch and moan about bad calls made by officials, but in the end, they fuck up on both sides.

I see people still bitching and moaning about calls made against the Chiefs in the playoffs in the 90s that "cost them the game", but the fact is, the only thing that cost the Chiefs those games is the players and the coaches.

Bad calls happen all the fucking time.

When it's all said and done, Teams lose games, not officials.

Couldn't agree more.

Truly elite teams overcome adversity.

[CoMoChief]

the Vikings radio guys agreed it was a catch, and they are the biggest homers you'll find anywhere.

NFL Live did a freeze shot of where the ball hit the ground. It was not a caught ball.

[wild1]

NFL Live did a freeze shot of where the ball hit the ground. It was not a caught ball.

Thanks - now I know for sure it was a catch.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Thanks - now I know for sure it was a catch.

LMAO

[CoMoChief]

Couldn't agree more.

Truly elite teams overcome adversity.

The adversity were the bad calls in OT. Problem is, its was sudden death OT, can't exactly overcome adversity in sudden death OT when the refs cause the other team to keep possession of the ball.

Had that been the Chiefs playing the Vikings, this board would be on a shitstorm of blaming the refs in OT.

I agree it never should have gotten to OT. But that's besides the point because at that time the game wasn't decided.

[Bane]

And people keep forgetting (or ignoring) the most important part of the replay rule:

There must be CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE to over turn the ruling on the field.

There's not a single camera shot that shows CONCLUSIVELY that the pass in question hit the ground.

You can assume it did, but the referee cannot.

He has to actually SEE it hit the ground.

Yeah but its all on the refs.They should be absolutely perfect.Nevermind the players fumbling,and throwing interceptions,and blowing coverages on TD drives,and absolutely killing their team with stupid penalties.Just like in pro boxing,if you don't knock the other guy out,and let the judges decide who wins,you can't cry and complain.

[CoMoChief]

Thanks - now I know for sure it was a catch.

well it's obvious you didn't see it, because had you seen it you would be disagreeing with the "Vikings radio guy"

[OnTheWarpath15]

The adversity were the bad calls in OT. Problem is, its was sudden death OT, can't exactly overcome adversity in sudden death OT when the refs cause the other team to keep possession of the ball.

Had that been the Chiefs playing the Vikings, this board would be on a shitstorm of blaming the refs in OT.

I agree it never should have gotten to OT. But that's besides the point because at that time the game wasn't decided.

Yeah, turning the ball over FIVE TIMES IN REGULATION isn't adversity.

[Mile High Mania]

The adversity were the bad calls in OT. Problem is, its was sudden death OT, can't exactly overcome adversity in sudden death OT when the refs cause the other team to keep possession of the ball.

Had that been the Chiefs playing the Vikings, this board would be on a shitstorm of blaming the refs in OT.

I agree it never should have gotten to OT. But that's besides the point because at that time the game wasn't decided.

Understatement of the year... hell, it wasn't the Chiefs and look at the weeping.

[CoMoChief]

If Favre doesn't throw that stupid pick at the end of regualtion, and picks up the 4 or 5 yards that was in front of him, then Longwell gets a chance to win it in regulation, and the Saints never get the ****ing ball in OT.

That pick lost the ****ing game, and crying about the officiating that had been horrible throughout the ****ing game is a loser crying.

The guy didn't return Favre's pick for a TD. The game was over in regulation as a tie, therefore it went to OT. Favre didn't LOSE the game, he caused it to go into OT where all the cluster fuck reffing happened.

The Vikings stop the Saints and get the ball back had the refs not have fucked up not once, twice, but 3 times.

[CoMoChief]

Yeah, turning the ball over FIVE TIMES IN REGULATION isn't adversity.

The Saints still didn't win in regulation despite all of that. The game was tied.

[wild1]

well it's obvious you didn't see it, because had you seen it you would be disagreeing with the "Vikings radio guy"

I saw it - it was a textbook case of 'inconclusive', though I personally thought it was caught.

[Bane]

Understatement of the year... hell, it wasn't the Chiefs and look at the weeping.

This is weeping.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The Saints still didn't win in regulation despite all of that. The game was tied.

WHY was the game tied?

Could it be because the Vikings failed to score even three points, not once, but TWICE because of fumbles inside the Saints 10 yard line?

Rich Gannon, who still works with the Vikings, is saying the same thing on Sirius RIGHT NOW.

You will not win a game, much less a conference championship game when you turn the ball over FIVE TIMES.

[Mile High Mania]

This is weeping.

Nah, he just peed himself a little bit...

[Brock]

Como thinks it was a catch. That's pretty much all there is to say about it.

[Bane]

WHY was the game tied?

Could it be because the Vikings failed to score even three points, not once, but TWICE because of fumbles inside the Saints 10 yard line?

Rich Gannon, who still works with the Vikings, is saying the same thing on Sirius RIGHT NOW.

You will not win a game, much less a conference championship game when you turn the ball over FIVE TIMES.

The Saints paid the refs to butter the balls.No matter what,it was on the refs though.ROFL

[beach tribe]

All penalties should be subject to booth review and be challengable. Of course, this will never happen, as it would basically take away the league's ability to fix games. And God knows we can't let that happen.

So you're saying that the NFL did NOT want Brett Farve in the SB?

"C'mon Man"

[OnTheWarpath15]

Como thinks it was a catch. That's pretty much all there is to say about it.

Actually, CoMo thinks it WASN'T a catch.

[Brock]

Actually, CoMo thinks it WASN'T a catch.

What I meant to say.

[milkman]

The guy didn't return Favre's pick for a TD. The game was over in regulation as a tie, therefore it went to OT. Favre didn't LOSE the game, he caused it to go into OT where all the cluster **** reffing happened.

The Vikings stop the Saints and get the ball back had the refs not have ****ed up not once, twice, but 3 times.

You are a blathering idiot.

Longwell kicks a FG, game over.

Favre lost that fucking game.

[Bane]

You are a blathering idiot.

Longwell kicks a FG, game over.

Favre lost that ****ing game.

He's allowed to make those mistakes,he's no ref after all ya know.

[BigMeatballDave]

it was the refs that lost this game for MIN.:spock: Did you miss the FIVE TURNOVERS?

[OnTheWarpath15]

:spock: Did you miss the FIVE TURNOVERS?

Fuck that, we can't be holding PLAYERS accountable, can we?

[BigMeatballDave]

Favre didn't lose the game for MIN, Favre caused the game to go into OT.

He may not have lost it, but he certainly failed to win it. Same difference.

[Bane]

He may not have lost it, but he certainly failed to win it. Same difference.

Especially when it is Favre's job to win the game.

[BigCatDaddy]

You are a blathering idiot.

Longwell kicks a FG, game over.

Favre lost that ****ing game.

Favre kept them in that game despite them having a case fumbleitis. They also wouldn't have been playing in that game without him.

I find it amusing that people rave about the ride we had with Montana at QB when we went to the AFC Title game, but piss all over Favre for doing the same thing and he actually came closer to making it to the SB at 2 year older.

[Mile High Mania]

Let's look at it like this...

MIN dominated with 1st downs - 31 to 15
MIN dominated with total yards - 475 to 257
MIN dominated with rushing - 165 to 68
MIN had 5 penalties for 32 yards compared to 9 penalties for 88 yards
MIN dominated the TOP - nearly 37 minutes compared to almost 28 minutes

The big failures for MIN?

Favre threw 2 INTs / Brees threw 0

MIN had 6 fumbles and lost 3 / NOS had 3 fumbles and lost 1
MIN was 4/6 in the redzone (66%) / NOS was 3/3 in the redzone (100%)

Sure, the refs might have screwed up in OT... but MIN should have never let the game go that far with that type of production.

[Crush]

Favre kept them in that game despite them having a case fumbleitis. They also wouldn't have been playing in that game without him.

I find it amusing that people rave about the ride we had with Montana at QB when we went to the AFC Title game, but piss all over Favre for doing the same thing and he actually coming closer to making it to the SB at 2 year older.


Big difference. Montana is/was a class act. Favre is an attention-whore that will hold the Vikings offseason hostage until late August.

[Brock]

I find it amusing that people who up until recently considered it weak to bitch about refs are suddenly bitching about refs.

[Bane]

Let's look at it like this...

MIN dominated with 1st downs - 31 to 15
MIN dominated with total yards - 475 to 257
MIN dominated with rushing - 165 to 68
MIN had 5 penalties for 32 yards compared to 9 penalties for 88 yards
MIN dominated the TOP - nearly 37 minutes compared to almost 28 minutes

The big failures for MIN?

Favre threw 2 INTs / Brees threw 0

MIN had 6 fumbles and lost 3 / NOS had 3 fumbles and lost 1
MIN was 4/6 in the redzone (66%) / NOS was 3/3 in the redzone (100%)

Sure, the refs might have screwed up in OT... but MIN should have never let the game go that far with that type of production.

Thats the same argument Rams fans cried after the Pats beat them in the SB after 911.Said it was rigged,and boo hoo hoo:crybaby:.
Score more points than the other team and then you have nothing to bitch about.Case closed.

[BigCatDaddy]

Big difference. Montana is/was a class act. Favre is an attention-whore that will hold the Vikings offseason hostage until late August.

So it has nothing to do with on the field performance you are saying. People just don't like him so they piss on his accomplishments. Now that's classy.

[milkman]

Big difference. Montana is/was a class act. Favre is an attention-whore that will hold the Vikings offseason hostage until late August.

The other big difference is that Montana was throwing to scrubs like Wilie Davis and handing the ball off to a wily but aging Marcus Allen, while Favre had weapons all over the firld.

That Viking team was much better from top to bottom over that Chiefs team, and it ain't even close.

And in spite of that, and the fact that I still believe that Montana is the greatest ever, I also still believe trading for Montana, a short term and fragile solution at QB was mistake, without also addressing the need for a younger, more capable backup to learn and take over when Montana was hurt, and retired.

[Brock]

So it has nothing to do with on the field performance you are saying. People just don't like him so they piss on his accomplishments. Now that's classy.

What, throwing away another NFC championship game, that's 2 in 3 years, isn't on the field performance?

[Crush]

So it has nothing to do with on the field performance you are saying. People just don't like him so they piss on his accomplishments. Now that's classy.


Don't forget that one of those "accomplishments" is the all-time interception record. That is a reason people piss on him. The guy is a reckless jackass.

[Crush]

The other big difference is that Montana was throwing to scrubs like Wilie Davis and handing the ball off to a wily but aging Marcus Allen, while Favre had weapons all over the firld.

That Viking team was much better from top to bottom over that Chiefs team, and it ain't even close.

And in spite of that, and the fact that I still believe that Montana is the greatest ever, I also still believe trading for Montana, a short term and fragile solution at QB was mistake, without also addressing the need for a younger, more capable backup to learn and take over when Montana was hurt, and retired.


Agreed. That is why we had to endure Steve Bono as the starter for two seasons.

[milkman]

Don't forget that one of those "accomplishments" is the all-time interception record. That is a reason people piss on him. The guy is a reckless jackass.

And he also holds the record for most career playoff interceptions.

[DeezNutz]

Actually, CoMo thinks it WASN'T a catch.

Damn. Forces me to reconsider my position.

[milkman]

Damn. Forces me to reconsider me position.

Your real name is Popeye, right?

[Bane]

And he also holds the record for most career playoff interceptions.

Those dirty,cheating,post season refs...:shake:
ROFL

[BigCatDaddy]

Yeah, Fvck Favre and his piss ass play on those Championship games he always gets to. I would much rather have the piles of shit we have had at QB the last 20 years while he was setting INT and TD records from all those playoff games LMAO

Come on guys the dude can play. His mistakes are only magnified because he is on the biggest stage so often. Is he the best ever? No! That's Peyton Manning, but he still is a damm good QB.

[DeezNutz]

Your real name is Popeye, right?

Me likey Olive, that's for damn sure. :cuss:

[DaKCMan AP]

No. Not everyone has time to sit in their lazy boy, eat cheezy poofs and watch NFL Live.

[milkman]

Yeah, Fvck Favre and his piss ass play on those Championship games he always gets to. I would much rather have the piles of shit we have had at QB the last 20 years while he was setting INT and TD records from all those playoff games LMAO

Come on guys the dude can play. His mistakes are only magnified because he is on the biggest stage so often. Is he the best ever? No! That's Peyton Manning, but he still is a damm good QB.

His mistakes are only magnified because he's made more than any "great" QB in history.

[BigCatDaddy]

His mistakes are only magnified because he's made more than any "great" QB in history.

Because he has been given more chances then any other QB(attempts) and because he can get there more then any other QB has.


The top of that list of QB's with the most playoff interceptions is loaded with HOF'ers.

[LaChapelle]

Favre pussed out
He was too scared to run the ball for fear of getting hit again
don't say he couldn't run for injury, he rolled out of the pocket just fine

[the Talking Can]

I just caught the replay where they basically all said Robert Meachem didn't catch the ball.....so uh yea who's blind and why was there a giant argument about this?

It actually made me laugh how many comically bad calls they pointed out from that game.

did you really actually laugh?


i did when farve threw a game ending int...

[BigCatDaddy]

Favre pussed out
He was too scared to run the ball for fear of getting hit again
don't say he couldn't run for injury, he rolled out of the pocket just fine

Our you retarded? The guy has started over 300 straight games in the pocket and was getting killed out there, but kept standing in and delivering the ball. Pussying out is not what that guy has ever done.

[The Franchise]

Our you retarded? The guy has started over 300 straight games in the pocket and was getting killed out there, but kept standing in and delivering the ball. Pussying out is not what that guy has ever done.

No...but apparently you are.

[The Franchise]

Come on guys the dude can play. His mistakes are only magnified because he is on the biggest stage so often. Is he the best ever? No! That's Joe Montana, but he still is a damm good QB.

FYP

[Sure-Oz]

It could've gone either way. I saw his hand under the ball and that's probably what they couldn't call indisputable.

Other calls.... yeah, those were BS.

I thought it was incomplete, i'd be more poed as a vike fan about the phantom PI call. I'd also be poed that they could'v slaughtered the saints if they didnt turn it over 6 times.

[BigCatDaddy]

No...but apparently you are.

HAHA

AHHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA


ahhhhhh....

[BigCatDaddy]

FYP

I got Joe at #3. Petyon and Elway are both a little better.

[The Franchise]

Joe at #3?

1. Joe Montana
2. Peyton Manning
3. John Elway

[Bane]

I got Joe at #3. Petyon and Elway are both a little better.

Elway higher than Montana?I respectfully disagree.

[LaChapelle]

Our you retarded? The guy has started over 300 straight games in the pocket and was getting killed out there, but kept standing in and delivering the ball. Pussying out is not what that guy has ever done.

Favre has gotten too old and needs to realize he needs to retire
He was too scared to run the ball for fear of getting hit again
don't say he couldn't run for injury, he rolled out of the pocket just fine

~diplomatic enough

[BigCatDaddy]

Elway higher than Montana?I respectfully disagree.

Elway did more with less. Believe me, I'm not happy to admit it.

[BigCatDaddy]

Favre has gotten too old and needs to realize he needs to retire
He was too scared to run the ball for fear of getting hit again
don't say he couldn't run for injury, he rolled out of the pocket just fine

~diplomatic enough

He could have gained some yards and slid or ran out of bounds. I don't think fear is a factor with Brett.

The guy took a team to the brink of a superbowl and had his best season ever, if he wants to play and a team wants him why does anybody give a shit?

I think the Brett hating has clouded common sense. I've never been a Brett fan, but I respect the hell of what that guy does on the field.

[Bane]

Elway did more with less. Believe me, I'm not happy to admit it.

I respect your opinion,I just still disagree.I'm sure you know the old saying abut opinions.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

The spot was BS, but I thiink the biggest BS call I have EVER seen was the DPI call on Leber...my God, it was abismal.

I'm no Vikings fan, but they got robbed.

I'm not either, and I got my ass handed to me for saying pretty much the exact same thing.

[milkman]

Elway did more with less. Believe me, I'm not happy to admit it.

While it can, and should be argued, that Elway took less talented teams to the SB, it also has to be noted that Montana and the 9ers had much more talented opponents to compete against in the NFC than any teams that Elway faced in the AFC.

Based on what Montana was able to do with a far less talented Chiefs team in '93, I would suggest that Montana could have done as much with the talent that Elway worked with against the same AFC competition.

But it's all conjecture and speculation.

[LaChapelle]

He could have gained some yards and slid or ran out of bounds. I don't think fear is a factor with Brett.

The guy took a team to the brink of a superbowl and had his best season ever, if he wants to play and a team wants him why does anybody give a shit?

I think the Brett hating has clouded common sense. I've never been a Brett fan, but I respect the hell of what that guy does on the field.

He runs for a few yards and puts his team in postion to kick the winning FG that puts them in the super bowl. THE SUPER BOWL. It doesn't get much bigger than that. He epic failed, no way to shine that turd.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Favre personally sent New Orleans to the Super Bowl. How is that not understandable?

[LaChapelle]

Favre personally sent New Orleans to the Super Bowl. How is that not understandable?

Will Peyton choke to get them the trophy?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Meachem didn't catch the ball

That settles it, then.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Will Peyton choke to get them the trophy?

Me no think so.

[Bane]

Did they just say that Goddell mandated that the players voted in that aren't going to play in the pro bowl must still travel to Miami to do interviews and such?I bet the Saints and Colts are pissed about that.

[Nzoner]

So you're saying that the NFL did NOT want Brett Farve in the SB?

"C'mon Man"

My take is the media wanted Favre in the SB,the NFL on the other hand wanted a feel good story of a city in ruin brought back to life by their NFL franchise and they got it.

[Hootie]

I'm sorry OTWP - Milkman...

a 50-58 yard field goal in that situation is no gimme...and is nothing better than a coin flip...

So I disagree with that opinion...I think the Vikings really fucked up when they went into clock killing mode at the 35 with 1:30 and 2 T.O.'s instead of giving Favre another 1st down throw (at least a 2nd down throw)...those playcalls on 1st and 2nd down before the pick were epic failures.

[Hootie]

and I don't blame that last pick on Favre just like I wouldn't blame it on Manning or Brady...

I blame that whole series of events on Childress.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm sorry OTWP - Milkman...

a 50-58 yard field goal in that situation is no gimme...and is nothing better than a coin flip...

So I disagree with that opinion...I think the Vikings really fucked up when they went into clock killing mode at the 35 with 1:30 and 2 T.O.'s instead of giving Favre another 1st down throw (at least a 2nd down throw)...those playcalls on 1st and 2nd down before the pick were epic failures.

Where did I say it was a gimme?

All I said is that you have to at least give your kicker, who was putting his 53 yard kicks into the net, a chance to win the game.

The day was full of fail for the Vikings. There are plays in every quarter that you can go back to and say that it cost them the game. The Favre play just stands out because:

a) it was the same, bone-headed mistake he's made his entire career in the clutch, and;

b) it cost the Vikings the opportunity to at least attempt a FG and the win.

[OnTheWarpath15]

and I don't blame that last pick on Favre just like I wouldn't blame it on Manning or Brady...

I blame that whole series of events on Childress.

Sorry, but that's ridiculous, IMO.

Was there confusion on the sideline the play prior, resulting in the penalty?

Absolutely.

But no one forced Favre to make that stupid throw, other than Brett Favre.

Funny thing is, I think had Manning or Brady been in the exact same situation, they run for whatever they can get and give their kicker a chance - and neither are especially good runners - I just think they are more poised under pressure.

[Titty Meat]

New Orlenas was a city in ruin before hurriance Katrina i'm so fucking tired of hearing about that shit hole of a city. The media didn't suck off the Giants because of 9-11.

[Hootie]

I'm sorry...but if Childress doesn't shell up and start trying to kill the clock at the 35 yard line...Favre can get 1 more pass in on the hurry up and they can start doing it on the 20 instead of the 35 and the Vikings are in the Super Bowl...

Childress fucked up.

[Bowser]

Sorry, but that's ridiculous, IMO.

Was there confusion on the sideline the play prior, resulting in the penalty?

Absolutely.

But no one forced Favre to make that stupid throw, other than Brett Favre.

Funny thing is, I think had Manning or Brady been in the exact same situation, they run for whatever they can get and give their kicker a chance - and neither are especially good runners - I just think they are more poised under pressure.

Favre had his back open near the sideline, too. He could have thrown it there or just run it like you said, and gotten 6-8 yards.

[Hootie]

and I'm not certainly one to give Favre any sort of pass and you can go read my post history about how I feel about Brett Favre.

I've always considered him to be extremely overrated and I have never been a fan...never...since before I joined this board.

[milkman]

and I don't blame that last pick on Favre just like I wouldn't blame it on Manning or Brady...

I blame that whole series of events on Childress.

You don't blame that pick on favre?

Why does that not surprise me?

I agree that Childress and the Vikings made a boneheaded decision to play it safe at that point on first and second down, but you simply do not throw a ball accross your body to the middle of the field into coverage while running to the right, regardless of arm strength.

That is something almost every rookie learns, and Brett Favre after 19 years in the league has never learned, even though he's probably thrown 100 picks by doing just that.

He's an idiot.

[Bowser]

I'm sorry...but if Childress doesn't shell up and start trying to kill the clock at the 35 yard line...Favre can get 1 more pass in on the hurry up and they can start doing it on the 20 instead of the 35 and the Vikings are in the Super Bowl...

Childress fucked up.

I can agree with this, as well.


Childress got scared.
Favre fucked up.
The Vikings were not careful with the ball.

In the end, they as a team just didn't do what they needed to do to win that game, even though that flat-out dominated. And I mean team from coach to the 45th dressed guy.

[Titty Meat]

Brett Favre the most overrated HOF ever.

[milkman]

Brett Favre the most overrated HOF ever.

You'd get a pretty strong argument for Joe Namath.

[Hootie]

you know...

I've always hated Favre as much as I hate Brady, right?

I live in a place where there is literally more Brett Favre fans than Bears fans and most of these people have never been to Wisconsin.

Can't stand the guy and I think he's so overrated it's not even funny (though, I did gain a lot of respect for him this year)...

I don't blame him for trying to make a play on a down where they needed something to happen...

I do blame Childress for getting him into a 3rd and 16 situation when that never needed to happen.

Childress and Payton both shelled up and it was ridiculous to watch...

I go by what I watch and I simply cannot put any part of that loss on Favre...if they were on the 25 or even the 30 yard line when he made that throw...perhaps I think differently.

[Titty Meat]

You'd get a pretty strong argument for Joe Namath.

Joes team didn't need to buy players for him to win a super bowl.

[Hootie]

I've always said Brett Favre had 1 good 3 year stretch in his career and that was about it...

but you have to count this year and after I saw what he did this year I almost have to stop denying his greatness and just realize he's a top 10 QB...

To be frank, I was a little sad watching the highlights of the game on ESPN thinking it probably is the last time we'll see him...

I think I'm just getting a little softer...I'm starting to feel bad for people who fuck up...like when Rackers missed that chip shot against Green Bay that almost cost them the season? I felt bad for him...that wasn't like me a few years ago.

[Hootie]

Joes team didn't need to buy players for him to win a super bowl.

what?

This doesn't make any sense.

Brett Favre was the best player on the Vikings this year...I don't know how anyone could question that.

and he was 40...

if that doesn't tell you how great he is...

Shit.

It told me...I totally did a 180 on my opinion of Brett Favre this year.

[siberian khatru]

You'd get a pretty strong argument for Joe Namath.

I'd think so too. But let me ask this: Was he one of those guys you had to see to appreciate?

His stats suck, and I only remember him from his last days with the Jets and Rams (roughly 1973 onward), when his knees were shot and he was far more a celebrity than he was a football player.

[Titty Meat]

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[Titty Meat]

what?

This doesn't make any sense.

Brett Favre was the best player on the Vikings this year...I don't know how anyone could question that.

and he was 40...

if that doesn't tell you how great he is...

Shit.

It told me...I totally did a 180 on my opinion of Brett Favre this year.

You're a dumbass for sure.

[Hootie]

You're a dumbass for sure.

I guess this is what I get for trying to talk football with a fatass hillbilly...

[kstater]

No. Not everyone has time to sit in their lazy boy, eat cheezy poofs and watch NFL Live.

Awesome

[Titty Meat]

I guess this is what I get for trying to talk football with a fatass hillbilly...

A fatass hillbilly? Thats funny considering I'm not fat and I don't live in backwoods Illinois.


Yea Brett Favre was the best player on the Vikings! The Williams, Allen, Peterson, and Harvin we're just all role players.

[milkman]

I'd think so too. But let me ask this: Was he one of those guys you had to see to appreciate?

His stats suck, and I only remember him from his last days with the Jets and Rams (roughly 1973 onward), when his knees were shot and he was far more a celebrity than he was a football player.

Namath had one of the quickest releases ever, had good arm strength, and threw some of the prettiest deep balls you'll see, but I think he lacked commitment, and after that SB win, he just never really played to the level of his talent.

JMO

[kstater]

I'm sorry OTWP - Milkman...

a 50-58 yard field goal in that situation is no gimme...and is nothing better than a coin flip...

So I disagree with that opinion...I think the Vikings really fucked up when they went into clock killing mode at the 35 with 1:30 and 2 T.O.'s instead of giving Favre another 1st down throw (at least a 2nd down throw)...those playcalls on 1st and 2nd down before the pick were epic failures.

I'd rather flip a coin twice than flip it once.

[Hootie]

I'd rather flip a coin twice than flip it once.

Can't disagree with this...

But lets say they throw an incompletion...do they really try a 57 yarder or do they just punt and settle for OT?

[Hootie]

and P.S.

Does anyone really disagree with the notion that Favre was the best player on the Vikings this year?

[Titty Meat]

and P.S.

Does anyone really disagree with the notion that Favre was the best player on the Vikings this year?

Everyone thats watched football besides the Chiefs, yes.

[Hootie]

Everyone thats watched football besides the Chiefs, yes.

so you think Harvin was more important to the Vikings than Favre?

[Hootie]

(This is why you're an idiot Billay)

[Hootie]

Brett Favre was the best player on the best team in the NFC this year...

For the first time in my adult life, I finally saw the greatness in Favre that everyone had always talked about. I always thought he was an overrated piece of shit until this year.

[KCrockaholic]

The refs were worse in that game than I had seen since the Hoculi call from 1 1/2 years ago. Seattle can never complain again about Superbowl XL because the refs in that game were not bad at all. In this game, the entire end of the 4th quarter and Overtime I don't know if I had ever seen so many bad calls in a row. BTW when Cedric Griffin got injured on that kickoff he was f***ing tripped and the refs never threw a flag on it. With Griffin out, the Saints could then just pick on Asher Allen the rookie.

[kstater]

Can't disagree with this...

But lets say they throw an incompletion...do they really try a 57 yarder or do they just punt and settle for OT?

This is a real question?

[Rukdafaidas]

The Saints did in that game exactly what they'll try to do to Peyton Manning:

Hit the **** out of him, knowing that that punishment will eventually lead to mistakes. Manning is similar to Favre in that regard, he seems to make mistakes when he's getting hit often.

Allen made a good point in the interview regarding Favre's possible return.

He's got to be thinking that if he comes back, that every team they play are going to use the Saints blueprint against him - and he'll take a beating every week, instead of just a game here or there.
They might try it, but it will backfire. I don't think they can get to him consistently without blitzing and you don't want to consistently blitz Manning. He's just too smart.
The Jets tried it and it worked for a while, then they started picking up the blitz and he shredded them.
Favre uses his athletic ability to beat teams. Manning uses his head.

[Mecca]

If the Saints cheap shot Manning like they did Favre I have a hard time believing they won't flag it.

[milkman]

If the Saints cheap shot Manning like they did Favre I have a hard time believing they won't flag it.

You really are a whining little bitch.

Cheap shot, my ass.

JFC

[Mecca]

You really are a whining little bitch.

Cheap shot, my ass.

JFC

Yea it's just me seeing as it was all over NFL Live and NFL Network that there were several cheap shots especially the one that injured Favre's ankle.

[Pablo]

It can only be a cheap shot if the QB played in the 80's or early 90's/milkman

[KCrockaholic]

Several cheap shots at Favre were not called that should have been. If you disagree, you obviously are blind and have no idea what the rules are.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Crying about refs again, Mecca? That's <strike> pathetic</strike> meccathetic

.

[milkman]

Several cheap shots at Favre were not called that should have been. If you disagree, you obviously are blind and have no idea what the rules are.

I just get tired of people whining about crap like that.

It's ****ing football.

Blaming officiating for the loss is just a bitch's loser argument.

Hold on to the ****ing ball, don't throw stupid interceptions, and the Vikings win.

It's that ****ing simple.

[DeezNutz]

Joe at #3?

1. Joe Montana
2. Peyton Manning
3. John Elway

Those are my top 3, too.

But if we're drafting today, even with the benefit of hindsight, I'm taking Elway. Every. ****ing. time.

Unless the refs screwed me.

[Crush]

Oh noes!!! The Saints actually made Favre uncomfortable.

[Deberg_1990]

I just get tired of people whining about crap like that.

It's ****ing football.

Blaming officiating for the loss is just a bitch's loser argument.

Hold on to the ****ing ball, don't throw stupid interceptions, and the Vikings win.

It's that ****ing simple.

This times x1000

[Crush]

Yea it's just me seeing as it was all over NFL Live and NFL Network that there were several cheap shots especially the one that injured Favre's ankle.

Several cheap shots at Favre were not called that should have been. If you disagree, you obviously are blind and have no idea what the rules are.


You guys are dangerously close to John Madden/Peter King levels of Favre ball washing.

[Nzoner]

I just get tired of people whining about crap like that.

It's ****ing football.

Blaming officiating for the loss is just a bitch's loser argument.

Hold on to the ****ing ball, don't throw stupid interceptions, and the Vikings win.

It's that ****ing simple.


Absolutely :thumb:

[Bane]

Oh noes!!! The Saints actually made Favre uncomfortable.

Yeah I guess Childress had to pull Favre's panties out of bis but crack.ROFL

[Nzoner]

It looks like the league's attempt tp pussify the sport even more is really starting to work with some of you whiny bitches.I can't even imagine what some of the goold old greats of this sport would be thinking if they were still here to see this crap.

[Bane]

It looks like the league's attempt tp pussify the sport even more is really starting to work with some of you whiny bitches.I can't even imagine what some of the goold old greats of this sport would be thinking if they were still here to see this crap.
:clap:
:crybaby:Favre got tackled.....:crybaby:The refs cheated.:crybaby:The NFL is rigged.

ROFLROFLROFL

[-King-]

Yea it's just me seeing as it was all over NFL Live and NFL Network that there were several cheap shots especially the one that injured Favre's ankle.

How was it a cheap shot? The guy was falling and he grabbed favres legs. He didn't lunge at them or do anything illegal.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Brock]

That kind of thing wasn't considered a cheap shot by Mecca when it happened to Trent Green. Fuck Mecca. Fuck this guy.

[Bane]

How was it a cheap shot? The guy was falling and he grabbed favres legs. He didn't lunge at them or do anything illegal.
Posted via Mobile Device

Before long you'll have to pull a flag off of a QB to down him,wont be no more tackling them.:shake:

[BigCatDaddy]

How was it a cheap shot? The guy was falling and he grabbed favres legs. He didn't lunge at them or do anything illegal.
Posted via Mobile Device

Actually hitting the QB below the knees is illegal that should have been flagged. AKA the Bernard Pollard rule. I just don't think he wanted to call back to back roughing the passer penalties.

[Bane]

Actually hitting the QB below the knees is illegal that should have been flagged. AKA the Bernard Pollard rule.

Honestly I was waiting for the flag myself.

[BigCatDaddy]

Honestly I was waiting for the flag myself.

Yeah, they blew that call. I don't like the rules that baby the QB so much, but that was a no doubter by letter of the law.

[Sully]

Those are my top 3, too.

But if we're drafting today, even with the benefit of hindsight, I'm taking Elway. Every. ****ing. time.

Unless the refs screwed me.
He'd just whine, threaten to play baseball, and force you to trade him.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Game's over bitches. Nothing is going to change the outcome.

[Bane]

Game's over bitches. Nothing is going to change the outcome.

ROFL

[-King-]

Actually hitting the QB below the knees is illegal that should have been flagged. AKA the Bernard Pollard rule. I just don't think he wanted to call back to back roughing the passer penalties.

I'm pretty sure they only call that when the player LUNGES at the legs. They won't call it if a player is already falling down and simply wraps up on the qbs legs. I've seen that many times.

I could be wrong though.
Posted via Mobile Device

[veist]

The spot was BS, but I thiink the biggest BS call I have EVER seen was the DPI call on Leber...my God, it was abismal.

I'm no Vikings fan, but they got robbed.

That DPI gets called all the damn time when the defender doesn't locate the ball, may not like it but it gets called consistently. The spot is one of those things that is going to happen and once the spot is made there isn't anything they can do via the replay rules. Since when you get in a goal line like situation with bodies obscuring what the cameras get there isn't going to be anything definitive to overturn the call on the field. Plus based just on his forward progress the spot was pretty accurate. So then you are going to get into whether he ever actually lost possession of the ball which would be the only way he would lose forward progress. That and I'm pretty sure the refs didn't want to get killed in the parking lot. Bottom line though is the Vikes had like 5 or 6 chances to put that game away in regulation and fumbled or threw them away. So lets not act like they are blameless in even putting the game in a situation where they can win or lose based on a call by the refs.

[Saccopoo]

This is the final statement:

They blew the pass interference call. However:

The Vikings, regardless of the fumbles, fucked the game by the 12 men in a huddle call. Inexcusable. It wasn't the Favre interception. It wasn't the fumbles. It was a junior high level mistake by the coaching staff that screwed that game. Period.

If I was the owner, I'd have a long sit down with the coaching staff on that one.

[Mastashake]

This is the final statement:

They blew the pass interference call. However:

The Vikings, regardless of the fumbles, ****ed the game by the 12 men in a huddle call. Inexcusable. It wasn't the Favre interception. It wasn't the fumbles. It was a junior high level mistake by the coaching staff that screwed that game. Period.

If I was the owner, I'd have a long sit down with the coaching staff on that one.

I"d have a short sit down. It only takes a few seconds to fire everyone.

[Hootie]

I couldn't justify someone when the team is so close...if Favre comes back or if they trade for McNabb I see no reason why they can't have a chance to redeem themselves next year around this time...very talented team.

[Mastashake]

I couldn't justify someone when the team is so close...if Favre comes back or if they trade for McNabb I see no reason why they can't have a chance to redeem themselves next year around this time...very talented team.

I don't know. Minnesota has some Cubs syndrome going on.

I'm not superstitious, but I'm starting to seriously think they aren't supposed to win. :( My second favorite team is the Lions (I KNOW, I KNOW), so Minnesota losing doesn't bother me. But I'm starting to think its the purple curse or something.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

The Vikings window has closed, IMO.

They won't get another year like that out of Favre and the interior of both of their lines is on the down turn.

They need a good deal of help in their back seven, and even if they trade for McNabb, I don't think he's the kind of guy you can win a SB with at this point in his career.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Brett Favre was the best player on the best team in the NFC this year...

For the first time in my adult life, I finally saw the greatness in Favre that everyone had always talked about. I always thought he was an overrated piece of shit until this year.

Kevin Williams and Allen played their positions far better than Favre played his.

[Mastashake]

Kevin Williams and Allen played their positions far better than Favre played his.

What is your avatar a photo of? It looks familiar...

I usually don't care, but your avatar intrigues me and makes me really want to know.

[Hootie]

We'll see...

Hell...if Favre doesn't stay Green Bay is easily the cream of the crop of the NFC North...they could easily be the best team in the NFC next year even if Favre does stay.

[Mastashake]

We'll see...

Hell...if Favre doesn't stay Green Bay is easily the cream of the crop of the NFC North...they could easily be the best team in the NFC next year even if Favre does stay.

Still no love for New Orleans?

[Hootie]

Kevin Williams and Allen played their positions far better than Favre played his.

I think that's pretty hard to prove...

Say what you want about Brett Favre but he played QB for the Vikings and played well enough to be league MVP...12 wins, 108 QB rating, 33 TD's and only 7 picks and turned Sidney Rice into a superstar...

If you're going to try and tell me he wasn't the best player on the Vikings this year you're just being argumentative and you're letting your hate for Brett Favre cloud your judgment.

and like I've said 9 times now...

I am not a Brett Favre fan by any stretch of the imagination...but after this year I respect the hell out of the guy.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

What is your avatar a photo of? It looks familiar...

I usually don't care, but your avatar intrigues me and makes me really want to know.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7WqSLFeQmNo&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7WqSLFeQmNo&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I think that's pretty hard to prove...

Say what you want about Brett Favre but he played QB for the Vikings and played well enough to be league MVP...12 wins, 108 QB rating, 33 TD's and only 7 picks and turned Sidney Rice into a superstar...

If you're going to try and tell me he wasn't the best player on the Vikings this year you're just being argumentative and you're letting your hate for Brett Favre cloud your judgment.

and like I've said 9 times now...

I am not a Brett Favre fan by any stretch of the imagination...but after this year I respect the hell out of the guy.

You can respect the hell out of him, but unless you are willing to say that Favre was the best QB in the NFL this year, then you can't make that statement.

Allen was the best 4-3 RDE in football
Williams was the best 3 Technique.

It's that simple.

[Hootie]

Still no love for New Orleans?

No.

I'm not a fan of a team who backs into a Super Bowl...

If they can make it respectable against Indy I will change my stance but I have a feeling Indy is going to win like 38-21...

I don't know what it is...they have that Arizona syndrome where if they are on, they are on and can't be beat...but if they aren't...they are just mediocre everywhere...offensively, defensively...

and I saw a whole lot more mediocre down the stretch than I did at the beginning of the season.

Though right now if Favre returns I'd say Green Bay, Minnesota, New Orleans and Dallas are probably the four best teams in the NFC and two of them play in the same division so...

[Hootie]

You can respect the hell out of him, but unless you are willing to say that Favre was the best QB in the NFL this year, then you can't make that statement.

Allen was the best 4-3 RDE in football
Williams was the best 3 Technique.

It's that simple.

and they've had Kevin Williams for 7 years and Allen for 2...and what did it take to make them Super Bowl caliber? Brett Favre.

We all know you know what positional value is...

and Brett Favre was the 2nd best (arguably) QB in the entire NFL this year...

and you're trying to say he wasn't their best player?

ROFLROFLROFL

For being the "guru" you think you are...

You certainly say a lot of stupid things.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

and they've had Kevin Williams for 7 years and Allen for 2...and what did it take to make them Super Bowl caliber? Brett Favre.

We all know you know what positional value is...

and Brett Favre was the 2nd best (arguably) QB in the entire NFL this year...

and you're trying to say he wasn't their best player?

ROFLROFLROFL

For being the "guru" you think you are...

You certainly say a lot of stupid things.

You said "best player"

You didn't say "most valuable"

If you want to argue that he's the most valuable player to their success, then do it. If you're saying that he's the best player on the team, then you have to be willing to say he's the best QB in the NFL, which directly undermines your own Manning worship.

It's not my fault you're a fucking moron who doesn't know the definition of the words that he uses, Cock Skink.

[Mastashake]

and they've had Kevin Williams for 7 years and Allen for 2...and what did it take to make them Super Bowl caliber? Brett Favre.

We all know you know what positional value is...

and Brett Favre was the 2nd best (arguably) QB in the entire NFL this year...

and you're trying to say he wasn't their best player?

ROFLROFLROFL

For being the "guru" you think you are...

You certainly say a lot of stupid things.

IMO
1)Brees
2)Manning
3T)Rogers, Favre

[Hootie]

everyone, myself included, was all like, "Adrian Peterson will carry that team, he is a beast, he is so good, etc. etc. etc." when all that happened was Brett Favre came in and totally led a team with his arm because the line totally regressed and Adrian Peterson didn't have the 3,000 yards he predicted.

I've never been a fan...I hated Brett Favre...

but watching him this year, at 40 years old...

He was incredible. His pump fake is unbelievable...he still has a cannon and he makes a lot of smart throws...even when he doesn't get credit for them...and his deep ball is tremendous.

It's hard for someone I absolutely hate to change my opinion on them (see Brady, Tom) but Brett Favre did exactly that for me this season.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Hootie gets caught making a dumb prediction: I wasn't serious, actually I was right anyway.
Hootie gets caught not honoring a bet: I was being tongue in cheek
Hootie gets caught making a dumbass statement: You're being argumentative.

The fact of the matter is this: To you, your ass and a hole in the ground are indistinguishable.

[insert Gholston retort here]

[Mastashake]

everyone, myself included, was all like, "Adrian Peterson will carry that team, he is a beast, he is so good, etc. etc. etc." when all that happened was Brett Favre came in and totally led a team with his arm because the line totally regressed and Adrian Peterson didn't have the 3,000 yards he predicted.

I've never been a fan...I hated Brett Favre...

but watching him this year, at 40 years old...

He was incredible. His pump fake is unbelievable...he still has a cannon and he makes a lot of smart throws...even when he doesn't get credit for them...and his deep ball is tremendous.

It's hard for someone I absolutely hate to change my opinion on them (see Brady, Tom) but Brett Favre did exactly that for me this season.

His gift is his curse. He has the ability to throw into double coverage and make the pass. BUT, he tends to get picked off a lot, and in situations where he's pressured he makes bad decisions.

This is not an insult to him, its constructive criticism. He's legendary, but he is the all-time leader in picks for a reason.

IMO you base the greatness of a QB on his decision making at 4th and long with the NFC championship game on the line. Surely stats can't tell it all. That play has to be weighted SIGNIFICANTLY higher than some regular season TD in the second quarter against the Bears. This year he did great but ended up sucking cause he nullified all the hard work he put into it. All the guy had to do was run MAYBE five yards. Or even just get back up to the line of scrimmage. But he gave the ball to the other team.

[Hootie]

You said "best player"

You didn't say "most valuable"

If you want to argue that he's the most valuable player to their success, then do it. If you're saying that he's the best player on the team, then you have to be willing to say he's the best QB in the NFL, which directly undermines your own Manning worship.

It's not my fault you're a ****ing moron who doesn't know the definition of the words that he uses, Cock Skink.

He was their best player, easily.

If you want to use this fucked up logic than Peyton Manning isn't even the best player on the Colts...

Dwight Freeney is so much better!

and why would I have to be willing to say he was the best QB in the NFL?

I already did my MVP list for the NFL this year:

1. Manning
2. Favre
3. Brees
4. Rivers
5. Chris Johnson

and obviously C. Johnson as offensive player of the year.

Dude I hardly even know how to respond to this because your logic is so moronic.

Why would I have to admit Favre is better than Manning for him to be the best player on the Vikings? Do Manning and Favre play on the same team?

Jesus.

[Hootie]

Hootie gets caught making a dumb prediction: I wasn't serious, actually I was right anyway.
Hootie gets caught not honoring a bet: I was being tongue in cheek
Hootie gets caught making a dumbass statement: You're being argumentative.

The fact of the matter is this: To you, your ass and a hole in the ground are indistinguishable.

[insert Gholston retort here]
you're an idiot...

I don't even know what you're talking about.

You just said I had to admit Brett Favre was better than Peyton Manning this year in order for him to be the best player on the Vikings.

That, and I mean really, LITERALLY makes no sense.

[Hootie]

His gift is his curse. He has the ability to throw into double coverage and make the pass. BUT, he tends to get picked off a lot, and in situations where he's pressured he makes bad decisions.

This is not an insult to him, its constructive criticism. He's legendary, but he is the all-time leader in picks for a reason.

IMO you base the greatness of a QB on his decision making at 4th and long with the NFC championship game on the line. Surely stats can't tell it all. That play has to be weighted SIGNIFICANTLY higher than some regular season TD in the second quarter against the Bears. This year he did great but ended up sucking cause he nullified all the hard work he put into it. All the guy had to do was run MAYBE five yards. Or even just get back up to the line of scrimmage. But he gave the ball to the other team.
See I just disagree...

And it's not Favre favoritism...

I have never been a Favre fan, I call them like I see it...

Should that pick have been avoided? Absolutely.

Was he put into a terrible situation by his coaching staff and the 12 men in the huddle penalty? Absolutely.

Did the Vikings fumble the ball a million times? I mean...they were clearly the better team and they kept fucking themselves over and over and over...

and it wasn't Favre...

and when everything came down to it...Childress shelled up...

Favre tried making a play to give his team a realistic chance at a victory and it blew up in his face...but that was just the final straw (because naturally they lose the coin flip)...

the fact that people are acting like a 50-55+ yard field goal was likely are nuts...which is why I point to the pussified 1st and 2nd down playcalls to put them in that position...I get the calls if they are on the 20...but not the 35...

and then the Saints get a great kick return in OT and Payton calls two runs...only to get bailed out by penalties and controversial replays...

It was a game that featured offensive head coaches who call plays and they were both AWFUL.

The Saints were awful, the Vikings were awful...and really the last guy I pin the loss on is Favre.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

you're an idiot...

I don't even know what you're talking about.

You just said I had to admit Brett Favre was better than Peyton Manning this year in order for him to be the best player on the Vikings.

That, and I mean really, LITERALLY makes no sense.

No, it makes perfect sense. In fact, it is so plainly fucking obvious that a 6 year old could understand the concept.

Have a cup of coffee and go back to grade school.

You can't be the best player on your team if two players on your team are the best at their position and you aren't.

Could you be the most valuable player? Yes, but that's not the argument that you made. Best does not correlate with value in a linear fashion.

Trust me, I'm much smarter than you could ever hope to be, and you are in the waters of logic. And since we all know that logic is neither Halo nor water sports, you're out of your league.

[Hootie]

If you're saying that he's the best player on the team, then you have to be willing to say he's the best QB in the NFL, which directly undermines your own Manning worship.

ROFL

and I'm the one who says dumbass things?

This doesn't even begin to make sense.

[Hootie]

LMAO LMAO LMAO

So lets say Ryan Longwell is the best kicker in the NFL...

Brett Favre can't be the best player on his team since he's not better than Peyton Manning and they already have a player on the team who is best at his position?

Is that what you're saying?

Holy shit I thought you couldn't top the one where you said a pick 6 in the 1st half of the AFC Championship game is more devastating than a season ending pick by the other team in the same game when they had a chance to go to the Super Bowl...

I really thought that couldn't be topped...

But the board genious found a way!

Congrats dude!

[Hootie]

OMG I can't get over it...

Really?

Hahahahaha...

Holy shit.

I need to go outside and take a deep breath I'm in tears over here!

['Hamas' Jenkins]

ROFL

and I'm the one who says dumbass things?

This doesn't even begin to make sense.

You really are too dumb to live, Hootie.

For the 7th fucking time:

Jared Allen=best RDE in the NFL
Kevin Williams=best 3T in the NFL.


Now, to further complicate this syllogism.

You've said that Peyton Manning is the best QB of all time. For one to be the GOAT, they must also be the best in the league. So Peyton is the best QB in the league, according to you.

You've also said that Favre is the best player on the Vikings.

This is where you logic falls apart.

One cannot be better than two other players who are the best at their positions and not also be the best at his position.

If you are willing to make the (asinine) argument that Favre is the best QB in the NFL, then you might have a starting point for a stance. But since you've repeatedly professed the greatness of Manning, unless you are willing to argue that there are RDE's better than Allen, or 3Ts better than Kevin Williams, you have once again contradicted yourself.

Do not pass Go
Do not collect $200

[Hootie]

LMAO LMAO LMAO

So since the Vikings have a 3T and a RDE who are the best at their position in the NFL...

and since the NFL has a QB or two, or three that are better than Brett Favre...

that means Brett Favre can't be the best player on his team?

So you're saying all positions are equal?

If all positions are equal, I get your point.

But since they AREN'T (you fucking moron), you're just a fucking moron, moron!

I mean really...

For being a genious like you claim...

You're a fucking idiot!

LMAO

['Hamas' Jenkins]

LMAO LMAO LMAO

So lets say Ryan Longwell is the best kicker in the NFL...

Brett Favre can't be the best player on his team since he's not better than Peyton Manning and they already have a player on the team who is best at his position?

Is that what you're saying?

Holy shit I thought you couldn't top the one where you said a pick 6 in the 1st half of the AFC Championship game is more devastating than a season ending pick by the other team in the same game when they had a chance to go to the Super Bowl...

I really thought that couldn't be topped...

But the board genious found a way!

Congrats dude!

It's amazing that you still can't comprehend concepts as simplistic as relative ability and value.

Is Favre more valuable to the Vikings than either of those players? Perhaps.

Is he better than them? No, at this point in his career, he isn't.

Remember the whole "Jerry Rice isn't just the best receiver in NFL history, he's the best player in NFL history" line?

Do you think those people would take Jerry Rice or Joe Montana to start a team?

Rice was undoubtedly better at his position than Montana was at his; however, Montana was undoubtedly more valuable as a player.

Grab a dictionary, it may help.

[Hootie]

This is the problem with stubborn assholes like Hamas...

He never wants to be wrong...

So when he is wrong...instead of just backing out of the thread...he tries to find ways to spin things to turn them on the person who made him look like an asshole...

Which is why even Milkman, the person who hates me more than anyone and does the same exact things as Hamas when stuff like this happens (see Joe Montana thread)...had to agree with me when Hamas tried to tell me a pick 6 in the first half is more devastating to a team than a season ending interception.

[Hootie]

You're saying all positions are equal...

when in fact, they aren't.

Jared Allen may very well be the best RDE in football...that doesn't mean he's "better" than Brett Favre.

and by your argument...how can we fucking compare a RDE and a QB, anyways?

It's impossible...

So best player is another way of saying most valuable player anyways, retard.

So yeah...

Brett Favre is the best player, and most valuable player (because they mean the same fucking thing) on the Vikings.

[Hootie]

I don't even think your buddies will show face on this argument...

I had to present the whole "pick 6/season ending INT" argument to milkman and he replied with "yeah, I saw that, and even though I hate to do it, I have to side with you"...

see the thing is...your band of buddies will show up to defend you when they can at least side with your posts...but with this shit? You won't hear a peep because it's so moronic.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

LMAO LMAO LMAO

So since the Vikings have a 3T and a RDE who are the best at their position in the NFL...

and since the NFL has a QB or two, or three that are better than Brett Favre...

that means Brett Favre can't be the best player on his team?

So you're saying all positions are equal?

If all positions are equal, I get your point.

But since they AREN'T (you fucking moron), you're just a fucking moron, moron!

I mean really...

For being a genious like you claim...

You're a fucking idiot!

LMAO

Hootie, this is why people think you are stupid.

You don't have the mental capacity to understand the arguments that people make.

I never said that all positions are equal in terms of value to a team. However, each position can only be played so well, and the guy who plays his position better than everyone else is a better player at his position than is the guy who isn't the best at his.

He may not be as valuable of a player to the team, but he's a better player.

That's why guys like Revis, , Hutchinson, Kevin Mawae, Patrick Willis, etc. don't win MVP awards. They aren't as valuable, but I guarantee you that Jared Allen plays RDE better than Favre does QB. How can I prove that?

The fact that Allen's production far outpaces that of his peers and Favre trails some of his.

[Hootie]

man I clicked my "User CP" to see if I got under Hamas' skin...because every time I make him look foolish and he has nothing to use as a rebuttal...he just gives me a neg rep. It doesn't happen all of the time...but since I know I really made him look like an idiot here I knew it would be there and sure enough, it was there!

I'm so smart.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

You're saying all positions are equal...
.

No, I'm not.

Reading comprehension will help you out here.

[Hootie]

so Nate Kaeding is the best player in the NFL and better than Philip Rivers (not counting postseason)?

Is that the argument we're making? Since he's the best player in history at his position.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

man I clicked my "User CP" to see if I got under Hamas' skin...because every time I make him look foolish and he has nothing to use as a rebuttal...he just gives me a neg rep. It doesn't happen all of the time...but since I know I really made him look like an idiot here I knew it would be there and sure enough, it was there!

I'm so smart.

Hootie, I gave you neg rep because you're being a belligerent ass.

It's funny. You have this idea that I never admit I'm wrong. I do it quite often on here.

The problem with you is that you are habitually incapable of having a football discussion because you lack fundamental intellectual abilities, like functional literacy.

You just spent five posts saying I said all positions were equal when my last several replies have not just alluded to the fact that they aren't, but explicitly stated so.

When you act that fucking stupid, you will be received with scorn and derision.

[Hootie]

You don't have the mental capacity to understand the arguments that people make.

ROFL

Now that's rich.

I don't have the mental capacity to understand the arguments people make.

Yeah.

That's it.

[Hootie]

Hootie, I gave you neg rep because you're being a belligerent ass.

It's funny. You have this idea that I never admit I'm wrong. I do it quite often on here.

The problem with you is that you are habitually incapable of having a football discussion because you lack fundamental intellectual abilities, like functional literacy.

You just spent five posts saying I said all positions were equal when my last several replies have not just alluded to the fact that they aren't, but explicitly stated so.

When you act that ****ing stupid, you will be received with scorn and derision.

No...

You said Brett Favre can't be the best player on his team because Jared Allen is the best RDE in the NFL...

So right there you are comparing Allen and Favre...and by doing so...you are saying all positions are equal...because you're saying since Allen is the best RDE in the NFL and Favre isn't the best QB...there is no way Favre can be a better football player than Allen.

And that's EXACTLY what you're saying so stop trying to spin it and blame it on my "lack of fundamental intellectual abilities."

['Hamas' Jenkins]

so Nate Kaeding is the best player in the NFL and better than Philip Rivers (not counting postseason)?

Is that the argument we're making? Since he's the best player in history at his position.

There are almost too many errors to count in such a short post.

1) Is Rivers more valuable than Kaeding? Unquestionably
2) Is Rivers the most valuable player on his team? Yup.
3) If Rivers played with Darrelle Revis, would he still be the most valuable player on his team? Yup.
4) If Rivers played with Revis, would he be the best player on his team? Nope.
5) Is Kaeding the most accurate kicker in NFL history? Yup
6) Does accuracy absolutely denote worth as a kicker? Nope, especially when it only factors in regular season


There is literally nothing sensical about your entire post.

[Hootie]

3 doesn't even make sense...

The superstar QB is always going to be better than the superstar CB...you're trying to separate valuable/best but you can't since you can't compare a QB/CB by anything BUT value.

Philip Rivers will always have more value to his team than Darrelle Revis...meaning Philip Rivers will always be the better player. It's that simple...don't understand why you're putting on this moronic twist show to try and prove how much a genious you are for the 3,000,000th time.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

No...

You said Brett Favre can't be the best player on his team because Jared Allen is the best RDE in the NFL...

So right there you are comparing Allen and Favre...and by doing so...you are saying all positions are equal...because you're saying since Allen is the best RDE in the NFL and Favre isn't the best QB...there is no way Favre can be a better football player than Allen.

And that's EXACTLY what you're saying so stop trying to spin it and blame it on my "lack of fundamental intellectual abilities."

Hootie, I'm not spinning anything. Maybe another sport will help the analogy

Let's say I have Eric Gagne circa 2003 and Ryan Braun circa 2008 on my team.

Now, Gagne is unquestionably better at his position (closer) than Braun is at his (LF).

Gagne is a better baseball player. In fact, he can be the best in the league. But that does not mean he's more valuable to his team than Braun.

Again, I find it telling that you ignored the Rice analogy that I gave you earlier, because it completely eviscerates your argument.

Show me where I'm "spinning". I've said the same thing the last 20 posts.

I agree with you that Favre is more valuable to his team than Kevin Williams. But he's not a better player than Williams.

Your problem is again, one of comprehension, because you are incorrectly conflating value with ability.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

3 doesn't even make sense...

The superstar QB is always going to be better than the superstar CB...you're trying to separate valuable/best but you can't since you can't compare a QB/CB by anything BUT value.

Philip Rivers will always have more value to his team than Darrelle Revis...meaning Philip Rivers will always be the better player. It's that simple...don't understand why you're putting on this moronic twist show to try and prove how much a genious you are for the 3,000,000th time.

This is where you are unable to make the connection. You are conflating value with being the best. That's not the case. They are discrete entities. Look discrete up in the dictionary, it will help. Rice was the best receiver in NFL history, but you wouldn't take him over the 5th best QB if you had to start a franchise, would you?

[Hootie]

dude just read what you're saying here...

You're trying to compare Favre and Kevin Williams and then you're trying to tell me Kevin Williams is the better player?

That's just pure stupidity.

I get it...

You think because Kevin Williams is the best 3T in the NFL and Favre isn't the best QB...that makes Williams a better player even though he's not more valuable.

I get it, I really do.

But that's just fucking stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

In fact...the only thing you can compare a QB and a DT by is value.

That's FACT.

You can compare their value...

and since Favre has an EXPONENTIALLY more amount of value to the Vikings...he is a better player.

PLAIN
AND
SIMPLE

Jesus FUCKING Christ are you really this bored where you have to start this stupid shit?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Hootie, your argument fails because of its tautological nature and your inability to understand the nuances of the terms you are tossing about.

You say that value=best. According to whom?

Remember 3 years ago when LT ran for 30 TDs and everyone called him the "best player in the NFL"?

Weren't there probably 15 players you would have taken before him if starting a franchise?

Of course.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

You act like a child when things don't go your way. It's kind of sad. You might want to sleep this one off.

[Hootie]

you've turned this into this...

I said Favre was the best player on the Vikings...

and you decided to turn it into a 30 post back and forth because I said best rather than valuable?

Are you fucking retarded?

Brett Favre was the BEST player on the Vikings this year...

EVERYONE KNOWS THAT.

Peyton Manning was the BEST player on the Colts this year.
Drew Brees was the BEST player on the Saints this year.
Aaron Rodgers was the BEST player on the Packers this year (and Woodson won DPOY)...

I mean really...

For being a genious you're a fucking idiot.

That's all I can say.

You waste way too much time trying to spew your genious all over everyone on this board.

[Hootie]

You act like a child when things don't go your way. It's kind of sad. You might want to sleep this one off.

Pot meet kettle idiot...

I don't even know what direction you just spun this fucking thread into...

I do know when you spew your idiocy around here you get ultra-defensive and start using sentences like "your argument fails because of its tautological nature"...

Which is why you've totally avoided my point about the "pick 6/season ending INT"...

you know I'm right, I know I'm right...

so you can stop now...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Are most valuable and greatest synonymous?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Pot meet kettle idiot...

I don't even know what direction you just spun this fucking thread into...

I do know when you spew your idiocy around here you get ultra-defensive and start using sentences like "your argument fails because of its tautological nature"...

Which is why you've totally avoided my point about the "pick 6/season ending INT"...

you know I'm right, I know I'm right...

so you can stop now...

Hootie, you really should take a logic class.

I didn't respond to the Pick 6 claim because it's what is known as a deflection. It's a diversionary tactic meant to distract an individual from the current debate that is taking place.

You could also call it a red herring.

Your argument is "I'm right because I'm right because best=value".

I asked according to whom, and you've given no answer other than because you say so.

That's circular reasoning.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Hootie, let's take your argument to it's logical conclusion.

If the most valuable players are the best (assumption) than a list of the best players in NFL history will be the most valuable. Furthermore, since QBs are the most valuable players on the field, a list of the best players of NFL history, since best=most valuable, would be comprised almost entirely of QBs.

So, who are the 10 best players in NFL history?

[Hootie]

Are most valuable and greatest synonymous?

In terms of best players in the NFL...

Yes.

The best QB's of all time are the best players of all time if you ask me...

[Hootie]

and I'm not the one who took a simple "Brett Favre was the best player on the Vikings this year" and turned it into a freaking "I'm Hamas and very lonely and depressed" debate since I'm the only one up and posting to keep you from cutting yourself tonight...

We all know Brett Favre was the most valuable Vikings player this year...and in my eyes, and probably most every other sane poster on this board...that makes him their best player.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

and I'm not the one who took a simple "Brett Favre was the best player on the Vikings this year" and turned it into a freaking "I'm Hamas and very lonely and depressed" debate since I'm the only one up and posting to keep you from cutting yourself tonight...

We all know Brett Favre was the most valuable Vikings player this year...and in my eyes, and probably most every other sane poster on this board...that makes him their best player.

Translation: I have no rebuttal, so I'm going to dodge the question and try to go after the poster who asked it instead.

So, could you please offer us a list of the 10 best players in NFL history, then?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I must say, it's funny to see you melt down in this thread because you're too stubborn to admit that you used the wrong terminology, which, given the fact that you tried to project such things on to me, is all the more ironic, and hilarious.

[Hootie]

I must say, it's funny to see you melt down in this thread because you're too stubborn to admit that you used the wrong terminology, which, given the fact that you tried to project such things on to me, is all the more ironic, and hilarious.

I don't think I did...

I think Brett Favre was the most valuable player on the Vikings, and their best player...as evidenced by their W/L and the success they had this season.

[Hootie]

Lets not forget you were the one that said...

Since Peyton Manning is the best QB in the NFL...Brett Favre can't be the best player on his team...since Kevin Williams is the best 3T in the NFL.

So don't try and act like I'm the idiot here...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Lets not forget you were the one that said...

Since Peyton Manning is the best QB in the NFL...Brett Favre can't be the best player on his team...since Kevin Williams is the best 3T in the NFL.

So don't try and act like I'm the idiot here...

Hootie, I'm not backtracking from that statement at all, but you're still avoiding the question.

Since in your mind, value=best, who are the 10 best players in NFL history?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Was Jerry Rice a better player than Troy Aikman?

[Hootie]

It's too tough to do that in the NFL...

How do I compare a WR to a QB?

And I was a kid when Jerry Rice was truly great...I remember watching him with my dad and being amazed by his after the catch abilities but I don't remember enough about him or really even Aikman to give you an educated answer...I remember Aikman and the Super Bowls when I was 8, 9...10, 11...

But you're the same thing...

Except I don't pretend I know anything about Aikman, Montana...I think we're the same age, after all.

You won't hear me blabbing about anything pre-1998...1998 is the year I REALLY started to follow football.

[Hootie]

now if you want to hear my fantasy value for players next year...sure...

but you don't ever see me starting threads that are...

Peyton Manning > Chris Johnson

It's always a QB to a QB...

The best RB I've ever seen?

Marshall Faulk.

[Hootie]

Best WR I've ever seen? Larry Fitzgerald.

[Hootie]

Shit...I attended almost every home game at Arrowhead from 1990-1997. I was 5-12 years old...

But that doesn't mean I know what the fuck I'm watching...I know that the memories were so rich and so amazing that I'm still wasting my adult life on being a diehard Chiefs fan because of the amazing times I had at that place or waking up every morning to read the Star at 6 AM when I was a kid...mainly to check MJ's box scores but you know what I mean...

Doesn't mean I can remember how many times Dave Krieg fumbled or how mediocre Steve DeBerg was or how great Joe Montana was...

I also don't pretend I know about that shit...I know that my NBA knowledge starts in 1993 and my NFL knowledge starts around 1998.