Arguments for a Left Tackle in the 2010 Draft.

[Saccopoo]

While the vast majority of drafturbators around here think that Branden Albert is doing a remarkable job and had a great last half of the season, some people believe that adding a competent offensive left tackle would be a prudent and viable selection for the Chiefs with their first pick in the 2010 NFL Draft.

Some supporting arguments for a left tackle:

Wes Bunting: Well, after Suh, McCoy and Berry, Russell Okung's a pretty safe pick. Sure, he might not be the sexiest of guys, but honestly Branden Albert was one of the highest rated guards I'd seen and yet he hasn't yet had the type of career because he's be a run-of-the-mill tackle. You'd be surprised how quickly that offensive line would improve if you got a legit offensive tackle in there and kick Branden Albert inside. Some good things could happen.

From Walters 2010 Mock:

Fortunately, Pioli, who is a big believer in positional value, can take Okung without sacrificing too much of his team's payroll into the left tackle position. Albert makes less than $1 million in each of the next two seasons, and was a guard at Virginia anyway.

Okung is the real deal. He could take the Chiefs' offense to the next level, though the team will ultimately struggle in the playoffs because of Cassel's limitations.

From Walters/Matt McGuire's Mock:

Russell Okung - This pick is a no-brainer and barring a huge screw-up, I think we can all be 99-percent assured the Kansas City Chiefs are handcuffed to taking a left tackle at this pick. It will be interesting to see whether it ends up being Okung, Anthony Davis or Bruce Campbell, as the battle for the No. 1 tackle spot is one of the best storylines of the 2010 NFL Draft.

Okung was the most consistent lineman in the nation this year and he will test out on a very high level athletically.

From Draftcountdown:

The Chiefs have plenty of needs and could go in a number of different directions here but their offensive line play has been particularly troubling. In fact, Kansas City ranked among the worst in the league when it comes to sacks allowed. Oklahoma State’s Russell Okung isn’t an elite prospect in the mold of Tony Boselli, Jon Ogden or Orlando Pace but he has clearly emerged as the top offensive tackle in this class and will likely be a Top 10 pick. With good size, long arms, great strength, above-average athleticism and feet as well as top-notch intangibles, Okung is just a very good all-around blocker. Okung could slide into the starting lineup at either left or right tackle for the Chiefs and any investment in keeping franchise quarterback Matt Cassel upright is money well spent.

From Mel Kiper:

I think the Chiefs could use help at safety as well, but Berry likely won't fall this far, and they'd be reaching on either of the two other safeties with first-round grades. Okung could solve two problems, making him a good value -- he could step in at LT and allow the Chiefs to move Brandon Albert to the right side. A pick that can pay immediate dividends for the Chiefs.

From Don Banks/Sports Illustrated:

If Berry should get this far, the Chiefs would be the benefactors, but Okung seems like the right fit in the right spot for Kansas City. The Chiefs have tons of needs, but in Okung they would be getting a franchise left tackle, allowing them to shift Branden Albert back to his more natural right tackle position.

It's damn near a cultural universal!

Also in opposition to people who believe that Branden Albert had a very good last four games, in the Buffalo game, he was penalized three times (tied for most in a game in 2009) and gave up a whopping five quarterback pressures. In the Cincinatti game, he was penalized twice and allow a hit on the quarterback. In actuality, taking out the fluke Denver game, which was a drive block fest as Jamaal Charles racked up a Chiefs single game rushing record, Albert did not perform well in the last quarter of the season. Yes, he didn't give up any sacks, but there were a lot of qb pressures and penalties.

[Sfeihc]

If the Chiefs do take Okung and then Pouncey in the second, The O-Line is fixed. The defense automatically is improved because then they don't have to spend 40+ minutes a game on the field.

[Reaper16]

Arguments against this thread: abortion is still legal.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Arguments against this thread: abortion is still legal.

LMAO

[Pasta Little Brioni]

If the Chiefs do take Okung and then Pouncey in the second, The O-Line is fixed. The defense automatically is improved because then they don't have to spend 40+ minutes a game on the field.

No, the defense is still a sack of shit without serious upgrades whether the offense is on the field longer or not.

[DaKCMan AP]

If the Chiefs do take Okung and then Pouncey in the second, The O-Line is fixed. The defense automatically is improved because then they don't have to spend 40+ minutes a game on the field.

:spock:

Because that worked so well in the DV era when our o-line was all-world.

[Saccopoo]

No, the defense is still a sack of shit without serious upgrades whether the offense is on the field longer or not.

I don't see how the defense is a sack of shit. We've got two top five picks on the defensive line (Dorsey, Jackson), two first round draft picks at linebacker (Hali, Johnson), a high second at corner (Flowers), a Pro Bowler at LB (Vrabel), a Pro Bowler at safety (Brown)...seems like the defense should be kicking some serious ass.

[DeezNutz]

I don't see how the defense is a sack of shit. We've got two top five picks on the defensive line (Dorsey, Jackson), two first round draft picks at linebacker (Hali, Johnson), a high second at corner (Flowers), a Pro Bowler at LB (Vrabel), a Pro Bowler at safety (Brown)...seems like the defense should be kicking some serious ass.

4-3 (still going to be a stud), fucking stupid (why Scott?), 4-3, Texas, stud, broke dick (why Scott?), broke dick (why Scott?).

[OnTheWarpath15]

4-3 (still going to be a stud), fucking stupid (why Scott?), 4-3, Texas, stud, broke dick (why Scott?), broke dick (why Scott?).

ROFL

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I don't see how the defense is a sack of shit. We've got two top five picks on the defensive line (Dorsey, Jackson), two first round draft picks at linebacker (Hali, Johnson), a high second at corner (Flowers), a Pro Bowler at LB (Vrabel), a Pro Bowler at safety (Brown)...seems like the defense should be kicking some serious ass.

Cleveland Browns, Jerome Harrison, Arrowhead Stadium. Enough said.

[OnTheWarpath15]

:spock:

Because that worked so well in the DV era when our o-line was all-world.

Hell, we had the best OL in the league AND one of the best defenses in the league.

What were we missing?

A franchise QB.

What are we STILL missing?

A franchise QB.

[The Franchise]

I would rather see us take a large number of players before we take a LT.

Clausen
McClain
Haden
Spiller
Mays

Fuck....I'd even rather see us take Dan fucking Williams before we take a LT.

[Nightfyre]

One thing you have not considered, mr. Saccogoo, is how much does cassel contribute to the sack issue, either through a poor cadence or holding on to the ball too long. Check how many times he was sacked in new england last year behind their line. As I recall, it was a staggering figure.

Further, you assume albert can successfully transition to the right side - which is a substantial risk. Further still, you want to draft in the top 5 against the strengths of this draft class. Okung is a value-reach at best at 5.

Those are my arguments.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Demonpenz]

moving albert to the right side makes sense because tebow is left handed

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Funny how you clipped the Walter excerpt, when they said that Albert played almost flawlessly the second half of the year.

Branden Albert improved over the season and was pretty flawless in the final month. But I'm not convinced that he's a franchise left tackle. There's a chance that he could be, but I don't think anyone can seriously say that he's a lock to be one.

Neg rep for intellectual dishonesty.

Additionally, Walter most likely didn't watch the majority of Chiefs games and didn't know that Albert was

A) Struggling with weight
B) Learning new technique.

Funny how once he got both those down, his play improved. But let's give up on him after two years.

[OnTheWarpath15]

One thing you have not considered, mr. Saccogoo, is how much does cassel contribute to the sack issue, either through a poor cadence or holding on to the ball too long. Check how many times he was sacked in new england last year behind their line. As I recall, it was a staggering figure.

Further, you assume albert can successfully transition to the right side - which is a substantial risk. Further still, you want to draft in the top 5 against the strengths of this draft class. Okung is a value-reach at best at 5.

Those are my arguments.
Posted via Mobile Device

You're wasting your time. He doesn't consider anything. He's already decided that Albert is trash because he has a poor 8 games in two years.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Funny how you clipped the Walter excerpt, when they said that Albert played almost flawlessly the second half of the year.

Branden Albert improved over the season and was pretty flawless in the final month. But I'm not convinced that he's a franchise left tackle. There's a chance that he could be, but I don't think anyone can seriously say that he's a lock to be one.

Neg rep for intellectual dishonesty.

Additionally, Walter most likely didn't watch the majority of Chiefs games and didn't know that Albert was

A) Struggling with weight
B) Learning new technique.

Funny how once he got both those down, his play improved. But let's give up on him after two years.

Nice find.

[DeezNutz]

Additionally, Walter most likely didn't watch the majority of Chiefs games and didn't know that Albert was

A) Struggling with weight
B) Learning new technique.


Rinse, repeat for all of the national guys and most people constructing a mock.

Joe Douchebag sees high sack numbers and pencils in a LT, blindly moving Albert to the right side without considering if he has the makeup to allow this to be possible.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Rinse, repeat for all of the national guys and most people constructing a mock.

Joe Douchebag sees high sack numbers and pencils in a LT, blindly moving Albert to the right side without considering if he has the makeup to allow this to be possible.

Bingo.

Or, it could be, like I think it is in Walter's case, that people think our GM is a fucking dumbshit, and mock the dumbest possible move.

[DeezNutz]

Bingo.

Or, it could be, like I think it is in Walter's case, that people think our GM is a ****ing dumbshit, and mock the dumbest possible move.

Agreed. Dude can't let an update pass without taking a shot at Dayton Pioli.

[ChiefsCountry]

Here is the argument for taking a LT - A) Albert dies or B) Albert suffers a Sly Morris or Percy Snow type injury this off season. That is it. Besides all of the LT's in this draft do not have the ceiling that Albert has.

[Mecca]

I like how he posted a guy calling Okung safe as a positive. Lets get all jazzed up about a guy who is basically described as not being a great athlete or an elite prospect but he's safe. Drafting a black John Tait at 5 man lets get pumped!

And for that other point, you could put Cassel behind the Chiefs line Green had and he'd still get sacked 40 times, it's who he is.

[WildTurkey]

I like how he posted a guy calling Okung safe as a positive. Lets get all jazzed up about a guy who is basically described as not being a great athlete or an elite prospect but he's safe. Drafting a black John Tait at 5 man lets get pumped!

And for that other point, you could put Cassel behind the Chiefs line Green had and he'd still get sacked 40 times, it's who he is.

"Black" John Tait... I like that.. I think that is how I will refer to Okung from now on..... rep

[WildTurkey]

You know since this team has so few holes to fill lets pick a player in the top 5 at a position where we actually have a talented player... makes sense to me

[Mecca]

Hell lets draft Charles Brown with are high 2nd rounder, you can never have to many LT's.

[WildTurkey]

Hell lets draft Charles Brown with are high 2nd rounder, you can never have to many LT's.

I was thinking trade our 2 second round picks to move back up in the first so we can take Bulaga as well as Okung.... JIMP :D

[DeezNutz]

FFS, that is a distracting fucking sig.

[OnTheWarpath15]

FFS, that is a distracting fucking sig.

Too bad it's an old iPod.

A Shuffle would be more appropriate.

[BossChief]

No player in this draft at LT is

a) as good a prospect as Albert for the position.
b) as good at his position as Berry, McClain or at least five others are at theirs.

At 5, we have to get a player that a rare prospect that has a chance at being an all pro at his position and make the team around him better and Okung isnt that guy. Not from what Ive seen.

[WildTurkey]

Too bad it's an old iPod.

A Shuffle would be more appropriate.

a Shuffle would be nice but I would settle for a nano

[DeezNutz]

She's divorced.

Evidence A that no matter how hot the chick, someone is sick of her shit.

[ChiefsCountry]

Damn WildTurkey you made this thread alot better. :)

[Sfeihc]

After taking Jackson last season, I guess all bets are really off when it comes to Pioli and making good use of the draft. He's got a lot to prove but he does have the picks to really add some talent to this roster. With 4 picks in the top 70 he had better not $#%& this up!

[Brock]

Just another year without any playmakers. Yay!

[WildTurkey]

Just another year without any playmakers. Yay!

well sadly being a Chiefs fan I have become used to it :cuss:

[keg in kc]

We need a "not this shit again" smilie.

:doh!: will have to do for now.

[Ralphy Boy]

"Black" John Tait... I like that.. I think that is how I will refer to Okung from now on..... rep

Yeah but is this Black John Tait also left-handed?


Was it Gunther or Carl who said he would be a natural LT because he was left-handed?

[ChiefsCountry]

We need a "not this shit again" smilie.

:doh!: will have to do for now.

I suggest we put WildTurkey's sig picture with the words not this shit again on them. It would make posting it alot more enjoyable.

[KCDC]

Heck, let's trade our #1 to Arizona for Boldin and their 2nd, then we can take OL with 2a or 2b and still have two more second rounders for defense.

[WildTurkey]

I suggest we put WildTurkey's sig picture with the words not this shit again on them. It would make posting it alot more enjoyable.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn264/cigarshirts/Guiness-Brilliant.jpg

[WildTurkey]

Yeah but is this Black John Tait also left-handed?


Was it Gunther or Carl who said he would be a natural LT because he was left-handed?

Okung wishes he was left handed like Tait ROFL

[kcbubb]

did anyone watch washington last year? There line was terrible. There QBs got killed. I don't buy the hype that they will take a QB. I'm guessing the first 4 picks will be.

Suh
McCoy
Berry
Okung

[The Bad Guy]

Some of you have been so conditioned watching the early 90s Chiefs that it's sickening.

I don't think you'd ever find a fanbase more in love with the offensive line in the first round than Chiefs fans.

Also, sorry a bunch of mock draft fansites aren't going to convince me that our best pick should be a guy who in any other offensive line talent pool would be a top 20 pick.

[WildTurkey]

Some of you have been so conditioned watching the early 90s Chiefs that it's sickening.

I don't think you'd ever find a fanbase more in love with the offensive line in the first round than Chiefs fans.

Also, sorry a bunch of mock draft fansites aren't going to convince me that our best pick should be a guy who in any other offensive line talent pool would be a top 20 pick.

That's really my view on it.... "Black John Tait" is not worth a top 5 pick if the Chiefs were sitting in the 15-20 range I wouldn't have an issue with it

[cdcox]

I like how he posted a guy calling Okung safe as a positive. Lets get all jazzed up about a guy who is basically described as not being a great athlete or an elite prospect but he's safe. Drafting a black John Tait at 5 man lets get pumped!

And for that other point, you could put Cassel behind the Chiefs line Green had and he'd still get sacked 40 times, it's who he is.

I [stares at receiver] disagree [breaks pocket before the pressure gets there] with [pumps and pulls the ball back] this [pumps again] statement. /Cassel

[OnTheWarpath15]

I [stares at receiver] disagree [breaks pocket before the pressure gets there] with [pumps and pulls the ball back] this [pumps again] statement. /Cassel

LMAO

Found a new sig.

Thanks.

[WildTurkey]

I [stares at receiver] disagree [breaks pocket before the pressure gets there] with [pumps and pulls the ball back] this [pumps again] statement. /Cassel

get rid of the fucking ball Matt :cuss:

[RustShack]

Hopefully this dumbass leaves like FindTheLaws did when he realized how completely wrong he was.

Holy SHIT is this his new account? The being a complete dumbass when it comes to the draft matches up!

[OnTheWarpath15]

Hopefully this dumbass leaves like FindTheLaws did when he realized how completely wrong he was.

Holy SHIT is this his new account? The being a complete dumbass when it comes to the draft matches up!

LMAO

Forgot about that douchebag.

Trevor Laws has 22 career tackles in 27 career games. No starts, no other stats registered.

Yeah, he's just as good as Dorsey and Ellis.

LMAO

[WildTurkey]

LMAO

Forgot about that douchebag.

Trevor Laws has 22 career tackles in 27 career games. No starts, no other stats registered.

Yeah, he's just as good as Dorsey and Ellis.

LMAO

If I remember correctly he had quite the Hard on for both him and Jake Long ROFL

[Saccopoo]

One thing you have not considered, mr. Saccogoo, is how much does cassel contribute to the sack issue, either through a poor cadence or holding on to the ball too long. Check how many times he was sacked in new england last year behind their line. As I recall, it was a staggering figure.

Further, you assume albert can successfully transition to the right side - which is a substantial risk. Further still, you want to draft in the top 5 against the strengths of this draft class. Okung is a value-reach at best at 5.

Those are my arguments.
Posted via Mobile Device

I don't see how Okung is a value reach as nearly everyone to a man considers him the best LT in the draft and compares his potential to guys like Joe Thomas and D'brickashaw Ferguson. He's equal or better at his position than anyone outside of Berry and Suh. Last year there was talk of Okung potentially being one of the first tackles taken in the draft last year if he decided to declare. That's not a value reach pick by any stretch.

And I also don't see how that is the least bit relevant to "the strengths of this draft class." It's a deep class at a lot of positions. Tight end might be the deepest of all the positions. Wouldn't you take the best LT in the draft if you had the chance to do so if you needed one knowing that it wasn't a deep LT class? If it's a deep class at a particular position, you can forgo taking a guy at that position early on and still pick up a guy later in the draft that is close to that #1 guys abilities. (I'm pretty sure that's what they mean by picking to the strength of a particular positions strength.) e.g., If the Chiefs don't pick Eric Berry with their first round pick, there will still be a lot of quality players to choose from at the safety position later on in the draft.

And I'm advocating Albert move to LG rather than RT. Let him bulk back up and play in the box where his deficiencies aren't as likely to be exposed as they are on the edge. It's the position he played in college and the position where he received so many raves and accolades because of his play there. Even Albert said he wouldn't have a problem/be happy about moving over when there was talk of the Chiefs selecting Monroe last year.

And yes, I agree with you that Cassel holds the ball a bit longer than some other quarterbacks. Thus the need for a good offensive line to give him that extra second to make the play. His manner of play needs a good O-line as a poor blocking line (see the Chiefs giving up an ungodly amount of sacks this past season) is going to exacerbate any potential problems in his game. (Rothlisberger and Rogers are the same way.)

[WildTurkey]

I don't see how Okung is a value reach as nearly everyone to a man considers him the best LT in the draft and compares his potential to guys like Joe Thomas and D'brickashaw Ferguson. He's equal or better at his position than anyone outside of Berry and Suh. Last year there was talk of Okung potentially being one of the first tackles taken in the draft last year if he decided to declare. That's not a value reach pick by any stretch.

And I also don't see how that is the least bit relevant to "the strengths of this draft class." It's a deep class at a lot of positions. Tight end might be the deepest of all the positions. Wouldn't you take the best LT in the draft if you had the chance to do so if you needed one knowing that it wasn't a deep LT class? If it's a deep class at a particular position, you can forgo taking a guy at that position early on and still pick up a guy later in the draft that is close to that #1 guys abilities. (I'm pretty sure that's what they mean by picking to the strength of a particular positions strength.) e.g., If the Chiefs don't pick Eric Berry with their first round pick, there will still be a lot of quality players to choose from at the safety position later on in the draft.

And I'm advocating Albert move to LG rather than RT. Let him bulk back up and play in the box where his deficiencies aren't as likely to be exposed as they are on the edge. It's the position he played in college and the position where he received so many raves and accolades because of his play there. Even Albert said he wouldn't have a problem/be happy about moving over when there was talk of the Chiefs selecting Monroe last year.

And yes, I agree with you that Cassel holds the ball a bit longer than some other quarterbacks. Thus the need for a good offensive line to give him that extra second to make the play. His manner of play needs a good O-line as a poor blocking line (see the Chiefs giving up an ungodly amount of sacks this past season) is going to exacerbate any potential problems in his game. (Rothlisberger and Rogers are the same way.)

I have not read those comparisons in what I have read on him and watching him play I'm no draft or scouting expert but I don't see a dominating LT which is what I want at #5

[Saccopoo]

Funny how you clipped the Walter excerpt, when they said that Albert played almost flawlessly the second half of the year.

Branden Albert improved over the season and was pretty flawless in the final month. But I'm not convinced that he's a franchise left tackle. There's a chance that he could be, but I don't think anyone can seriously say that he's a lock to be one.

Neg rep for intellectual dishonesty.

Additionally, Walter most likely didn't watch the majority of Chiefs games and didn't know that Albert was

A) Struggling with weight
B) Learning new technique.

Funny how once he got both those down, his play improved. But let's give up on him after two years.

Because Albert didn't play flawlessly the second half of the year. The Buffalo game was his second worst performance of the year, and the Cincinnati game was a close third.

And how can your footwork get worse if you weigh less? How can your reaction time be worse if you have less mass?

And I wonder what happened at about that half way point which seemed to be a miracle from the Baby Jesus to almost all of our offensive linemen? Oh, that's right. Larry got the boot and we found a decent running game. It's amazing what happens when you have a running back that can actually run. However, Albert's technique and skill set didn't have this amazing epiphany all of a sudden. Go watch the Buffalo game and tell me if you really think that he was better then than earlier in the season from a technique and skill standpoint.

[Saccopoo]

Nice find.

What? That I left out the part where Walter said he's not a franchise left tackle and thinks he'll never be one? And that somehow goes against my argument?

Yeah, nice find Hamas. Thanks for helping me support my argument against Albert as our LT.

[Saccopoo]

Here is the argument for taking a LT - A) Albert dies or B) Albert suffers a Sly Morris or Percy Snow type injury this off season. That is it. Besides all of the LT's in this draft do not have the ceiling that Albert has.

And what ceiling is that, and what are you basing your "projection" on? Seriously. I want you to tell me why you think Albert is headed to the Pro Bowl as a LT in the not to distant future. What stuff does he have that gives him this incredibly high ceiling that you speak of.

I eagerly anticipate your response.

[Saccopoo]

You know since this team has so few holes to fill lets pick a player in the top 5 at a position where we actually have a talented player... makes sense to me

Albert is a talented player? As a LT? And what are you basing this on?

[OnTheWarpath15]

What? That I left out the part where Walter said he's not a franchise left tackle and thinks he'll never be one? And that somehow goes against my argument?

Yeah, nice find Hamas. Thanks for helping me support my argument against Albert as our LT.

No, dipshit, the part where he admits that Albert improved over the last half of the season - something you're not willing to do.

And sorry, but I'm not terribly concerned that some clown named Walter, working out of his basement thinks that in his expert opinion, Albert won't be a franchise LT.

[RustShack]

Albert is a talented player? As a LT? And what are you basing this on?

You should just give up watching football.. but then again based off how your talking it appears you don't watch it in the first place. Stats and draft "experts" don't know the whole story.

[OnTheWarpath15]

And what ceiling is that, and what are you basing your "projection" on? Seriously. I want you to tell me why you think Albert is headed to the Pro Bowl as a LT in the not to distant future. What stuff does he have that gives him this incredibly high ceiling that you speak of.

I eagerly anticipate your response.

Why does he have to be a Pro Bowler?

Christ, the PB is nothing more than a popularity contest.

Michael Roos is one of the better young LT's in the game, and he's been to ONE Pro Bowl.

You lost what little credibility you had left when you compared Okung to Joe fucking Thomas.

[cdcox]

And yes, I agree with you that Cassel holds the ball a bit longer than some other quarterbacks. Thus the need for a good offensive line to give him that extra second to make the play.

No, you don't get it. If you give Cassel 3 seconds, he'll take 4. If you give him 4, he'll take 5. No receiver is quite open enough for him to throw the ball to him. He's not decisive. Probably because he doesn't have confidence in his arm/accruacy.

The solution to better QB play is not to get a better OL, the solution is to get a better QB. Just like Jamal Charles made the run blocking look a whole lot better than LJ did. The OL is adequate. You can make it better over time by drafting good players in rounds 3 and later. You need to use your early picks for playmakers, cause you aren't going to stumble over those in the later rounds very often.

[WildTurkey]

Albert is a talented player? As a LT? And what are you basing this on?

His rookie year he did a pretty nice job..... and considering the circumstances this season I thought he improved as the year went on......

[OnTheWarpath15]

No, you don't get it. If you give Cassel 3 seconds, he'll take 4. If you give him 4, he'll take 5. No receiver is quite open enough for him to throw the ball to him. He's not decisive. Probably because he doesn't have confidence in his arm/accruacy.

The solution to better QB play is not to get a better OL, the solution is to get a better QB. Just like Jamal Charles made the run blocking look a whole lot better than LJ did. The OL is adequate. You can make it better over time by drafting good players in rounds 3 and later. You need to use your early picks for playmakers, cause you aren't going to stumble over those in the later rounds very often.

Well said.

Cassel took 8 sacks in the final 6 games, yet played his worst football over that timeframe.

I'm sick of everyone else getting blamed for the failures of our QB.

[WildTurkey]

Why does he have to be a Pro Bowler?

Christ, the PB is nothing more than a popularity contest.

Michael Roos is one of the better young LT's in the game, and he's been to ONE Pro Bowl.

You lost what little credibility you had left when you compared Okung to Joe ****ing Thomas.

yeah where the fuck did that come from

[OnTheWarpath15]

yeah where the fuck did that come from

His ass.

Okung is the (arguably) best OT in a bad class. Period.

[WildTurkey]

Not just the QB the WR's take a lot of the blame as well for not getting open as well... we need playmakers it doesn't matter how good you block if your WR's aren't getting open and the QB is holding on to the ball to ****ing long

[Saccopoo]

No player in this draft at LT is

a) as good a prospect as Albert for the position.

Bullshit. Albert was a college guard. He was a complete and utter PROJECT at left tackle. It would be like taking Mike Iupati at #5 this year and forcing him to play LT his rookie season. (And I don't think Albert has Iupati's athleticism.) And Albert isn't a goddamn prospect. He's going into his third season in the NFL. His fucking career is 25% over and he hasn't shown shit so far.

b) as good at his position as Berry, McClain or at least five others are at theirs.

He is exactly McClain at his position. Solid, a very good player. He'll be a very good pro for a long time (depending upon injuries). However, I'm assuming that you watched the National Championship game and got all giddy when Musberger said McClain watched game film and immediately thought he was then the best MLB prospect ever. Regardless of the fact that the Albama defense let Texas back into the game and it was Shipley over the middle (McClain's area) that was making it happen. He's no better than Brandon Spikes, and he's not as good as Spikes in reading and reacting to the play and shooting the gaps to get to the ball. I like McClain a lot, but don't make him out to be Dick Butkus, Jack Lambert and Willie Lanier all rolled into one.

At 5, we have to get a player that a rare prospect that has a chance at being an all pro at his position and make the team around him better and Okung isnt that guy. Not from what Ive seen.

So, who's that guy? That "rare" prospect that we'll get a chance at at five? Because if Berry is there, he is it. Otherwise, you get your pick of a lot of good players. McClain fits the system perhaps better than anyone else other than his teammate Cody, but he's not "rare."

[Saccopoo]

I like how he posted a guy calling Okung safe as a positive. Lets get all jazzed up about a guy who is basically described as not being a great athlete or an elite prospect but he's safe. Drafting a black John Tait at 5 man lets get pumped!

If he's as good as Tait was, then he's well worth the #5 pick.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Bullshit. Albert was a college guard. He was a complete and utter PROJECT at left tackle.

Wrong.

Someone doesn't understand that college skill-sets and pro level skill-sets aren't necessarily the same.

Every scout, writer, draftnik, talking head - all said that Albert's best position in the pros would be at LT.

Which is why he was taken 15th overall.

Show me the last guy that was drafted 15th or higher to specifically play guard.

[OnTheWarpath15]

If he's as good as Tait was, then he's well worth the #5 pick.

ROFL

[WildTurkey]

If he's as good as Tait was, then he's well worth the #5 pick.

you mean John Tait the right tackle?

[Saccopoo]

She's divorced.

Evidence A that no matter how hot the chick, someone is sick of her shit.

Either that or she married some douchey schmuck of a guy who was equal to Haley Berry's husband (who cheated on her with some skank), Mutt Lange, who cheated on Shania Twain, even though he is an old, ugly as hell ate up roadie, Hugh Grant who decides to get a blow job from a street corner hooker rather than go home to Liz Hurley, or Kim Cattrell's ex-husband who thought he was such a lady killer that he'd try to make the moves on all her friends.

I'm glad it's always the chicks fault though.

[OnTheWarpath15]

A mod should re-name Saccopoo - "FindTheOkung"

Seriously, he's that bad.

[Saccopoo]

Okung wishes he was left handed like Tait ROFL

Dude, don't be stupid in an effort to make the "Don't draft a offensive lineman/Big 12 player ever" crowd think you are cool.

Tait was an excellent offensive lineman.

[RustShack]

If he's as good as Tait was, then he's well worth the #5 pick.

:doh!:

[OnTheWarpath15]

Dude, don't be stupid in an effort to make the "Don't draft a offensive lineman/Big 12 player ever" crowd think you are cool.

Tait was an excellent offensive lineman.

LMAO

So awesome that he went to a whopping TWO Pro Bowls, your so-called standard for success.

[WildTurkey]

Dude, don't be stupid in an effort to make the "Don't draft a offensive lineman/Big 12 player ever" crowd think you are cool.

Tait was a good offensive lineman.

FYP, and I am not saying he wasn't good but he was not worth a top 5 pick and neither is "Black John Tait" and I am a Big 12 fan... even if Okung was from my beloved Jayhawks I still wouldn't want him at 5

[Saccopoo]

You should just give up watching football.. but then again based off how your talking it appears you don't watch it in the first place. Stats and draft "experts" don't know the whole story.

Well, I'm glad we've got such a brilliant football mind like yours around here to set us all straight.

Without your years of analytical, objective insight and understanding as it relates to football, this place would be a maelstrom of chaos.

[Saccopoo]

yeah where the **** did that come from

This guy for one:

Russell Okung Scouting Report
By Matt McGuire

Strengths:
Very good height with long arms
Thick, strong lower body
Extremely high level of athleticism
Patient pass protector; does not overextend
Great lateral agility
Quick kick step
Consistent footwork
Nice ankle/knee flexion
Surprisingly physical run blocker
Light on his feet
Highly experienced since true freshman year
Very durable - 34 straight starts
Understands angles
Recognizes stunts and blitz assignments
Gets to second level
Leader
Tremendous upside
Week 1 starting left tackle
Franchise player
Potential No. 1 overall pick

Weaknesses:
Occasionally gets too high in his stance
Needs to gain a little more upper body strength
Sometimes loses focus (bored with competition?)
Can be inconsistent with leverage
Room to improve hand punch
Must redirect at a higher level in NFL

Summary: I noticed Okung last summer when watching tape on Brandon Pettigrew and I pegged him as a potential star in 2008. He has all the makings of a Pro Bowl-caliber left tackle and has the upside to potentially warrant a No. 1 overall pick. If he can hone his technique slightly over the summer, I would be shocked to see him fall out of the first five picks next year barring injury. Okung has practically everything you look for in an offensive tackle. Last name pronounced OH-KOONG.

Player Comparison: Joe Thomas. Thomas and Okung have very similar frames with very good intangibles and the upside to dominate at the next level. Both had polished pass protection skills in college.

[RustShack]

You draft for safe players who produce right away. Guys like Tamba Hali are right up your ally. But I, like most other people would rather go the route of the talented guy who can be great rather than just a "good" player. I understand it takes time to develop, and don't give up on second year players. You on the other hand, are being counter productive because you fail to realize the adjustment Okung has to make coming from the spread is the same reason you don't want Albert. You are just a dumbass that doesn't understand the difference between schemes and the adjustments that need to be made. Also Albert is more talented that Okung. You do realize that if Iowa ran the Spread offense then their LT would be the #1 LT in the draft right now don't you? He is bigger and more athletic, but he doesn't play in a scheme that makes you look better than you really are.

[RustShack]

This guy for one:

Thank you for proving you have never watched him.

[Saccopoo]

Why does he have to be a Pro Bowler?

Christ, the PB is nothing more than a popularity contest.

Michael Roos is one of the better young LT's in the game, and he's been to ONE Pro Bowl.

You lost what little credibility you had left when you compared Okung to Joe ****ing Thomas.

Jesus OTW, you really have to quit taking things so literally. You get completely worked up on minutia.

How about All-Pro? Does that work for you better than Pro Bowl?

The dude said he had a high ceiling. Higher than anyone in this draft. A guy with that high of a ceiling should be considered an All-Pro level type of guy, right?

So I want to know, from the schmuck that originally said it, what he thinks gives Albert that high ceiling potential.

[Saccopoo]

Not just the QB the WR's take a lot of the blame as well for not getting open as well... we need playmakers it doesn't matter how good you block if your WR's aren't getting open and the QB is holding on to the ball to ****ing long

And a middle linebacker with the #5 pick should help us tons in that department, right?

[RustShack]

Campbell has a much higher ceiling than Okung...

[WildTurkey]

And a middle linebacker with the #5 pick should help us tons in that department, right?

yeah our Defense especially up the middle is awesome.... so that would be a reach of course.....

[RustShack]

And a middle linebacker with the #5 pick should help us tons in that department, right?

It helps your defense, and you know defense wins championships right? You do know when Weis was with the Patriots Brady was a game manager and won games because of defense right? You do know that since the Patriots lost Weis, and went the great offense route they haven't won a Super Bowl right? You do know that every post you make more and more people are realizing you don't actually watch football right?

[Saccopoo]

Show me the last guy that was drafted 15th or higher to specifically play guard.

Besides Brandon Albert?

I don't know why you are being so protective of a bad Carl Peterson pick. You are defending him being a legit LT as if he was your own flesh and blood.

[WildTurkey]

This guy for one:

I've read a lot of his stuff... He flip flops a lot just read his Dez Bryant report, he compares him to Chad Ochocinco but then says that he doesn't think he is a number 1 receiver kind of makes me question his player comparisons, and I still don't agree with his opinion that A. Benn can't catch :)

[RustShack]

Besides Brandon Albert?

I don't know why you are being so protective of a bad Carl Peterson pick. You are defending him being a legit LT as if he was your own flesh and blood.

You do know that Albert was going to start over future first round pick Monroe right? You do know the only reason he didn't start at LT as a rookie is because future first round pick Ferguson was there and they wanted the best players on the field right? You do know Albert stayed at LG only because of an injury of who was going to start at LG so they left Albert there because he already had starting experience there and was more versatile than Monroe. Do you remember this year when Wade was starting at LT then there was another injury and they moved Wade to that spot and then Richardson stepped in at LT? Of course you don't because you don't watch football but its the same story there.

[Saccopoo]

Thank you for proving you have never watched him.

I watched four Oklahoma State games this past season and discussed them in detail during and after the game with a couple of people who are OSU fans/boosters. (The owner of the Sports bar I hang out at is an OSU alumni, so they are always on at his joint.) But since you have no fucking knowledge of what I watch, I readily expected something snide, ignorant and irrelevant from you in response.

[Saccopoo]

yeah our Defense especially up the middle is awesome.... so that would be a reach of course.....

You were bitching about our offense and how Okung wouldn't help it, but didn't provide anything of merit in terms of potential draft picks on the offensive side of the ball. That our wideouts can't get open. That Cassel sucks.

So are you advocating a guy like Bryant with the first pick? Or Bradford? Or are you just happy being the parrot on OTW's shoulder?

[WildTurkey]

I watched four Oklahoma State games this past season and discussed them in detail during and after the game with a couple of people who are OSU fans/boosters. (The owner of the Sports bar I hang out at is an OSU alumni, so they are always on at his joint.) But since you have no ****ing knowledge of what I watch, I readily expected something snide, ignorant and irrelevant from you in response.

I watched him quite a bit as well... and think while being a good OT I would never compare him to Joe Thomas who was as dominant as they get and you knew that would translate to the pros... I see Okung as a good middle of the 1st round LT nothing more

[WildTurkey]

You were bitching about our offense and how Okung wouldn't help it, but didn't provide anything of merit in terms of potential draft picks on the offensive side of the ball. That our wideouts can't get open. That Cassel sucks.

So are you advocating a guy like Bryant with the first pick? Or Bradford? Or are you just happy being the parrot on OTW's shoulder?

yeah and I can bitch about the defense as well... because it was equally awful which is why I have been pimping Eric Berry for quite a long time ... we have virtually no talent at LB so no I wouldn't be against McClain, and I don't think Cassel sucks I just think he holds on to the ball way too long... and if liking Albert and not wanting to take LT at #5 makes me a parrot than I guess that's what I am

and FTR If I were taking an offensive player with that pick I would take Bryant or Clausen with that pick before I would take Okung

[RustShack]

I watched four Oklahoma State games this past season and discussed them in detail during and after the game with a couple of people who are OSU fans/boosters. (The owner of the Sports bar I hang out at is an OSU alumni, so they are always on at his joint.) But since you have no fucking knowledge of what I watch, I readily expected something snide, ignorant and irrelevant from you in response.

Ahh discussed it with fans. That explains the overhype. Maybe you should watch his fucking highlight real for Christ sakes, even his pass blocking there isn't that good.

[Saccopoo]

It helps your defense, and you know defense wins championships right?

I'll be thinking of you and your words of wisdom when I watch Peyton Manning and Drew Brees in the Super Bowl on Sunday.

[chiefs1111]

Well said.

Cassel took 8 sacks in the final 6 games, yet played his worst football over that timeframe.

I'm sick of everyone else getting blamed for the failures of our QB.

Well said. Cassel could have 10 seconds to throw a pass,take a sack and some people here would still blame the line.

[Saccopoo]

Ahh discussed it with fans. That explains the overhype. Maybe you should watch his ****ing highlight real for Christ sakes, even his pass blocking there isn't that good.

Oh, so now we are on to the highlight reel? Well, I've seen that as well. In fact, someone posted one of his highlight "reels" on the The Lounge a week or so ago. What's next, you crying about me not seeing the game films from the other Big 12 teams defensive coordinators?

Look, I understand that you have complete tunnel vision with McClain and can't see the forest for the trees at this point, but it doesn't mean that you have to be a complete douche nozzle every single time you post.

[Saccopoo]

Well said. Cassel could have 10 seconds to throw a pass,take a sack and some people here would still blame the line.

That's fine, but until he gets a line, it's hard to ultimately judge his abilities at quarterback. The two (a good quarterback and a good line) are tied together to the point where it's almost impossible to have one without the other.

[WildTurkey]

but you don't need to have an o-line comprised of 1st rounders to win... you need impact players all over the place.. the idea that every high pick needs to be a lineman drives me fucking crazy

[Saccopoo]

but you don't need to have an o-line comprised of 1st rounders to win... you need impact players all over the place.. the idea that every high pick needs to be a lineman drives me ****ing crazy

Who said every high pick needs to be an offensive lineman?

I mean, if the general consensus is that our offensive line is fine, we'll be able to get a receiver with our now expected top five pick next year and cross our fingers that Albert finally "gets it" in his third season of starting at the left tackle spot, and we need to focus on the defensive side of the ball, then so be it.

I hope you are all happy as pigs in mud when the Chiefs actually pick McClain, because I don't think that Okung is going to be there anyway as the Redskins desperately need an offensive tackle as do the Buccaneers.

1. Suh
2. McCoy
3. Berry
4. Okung
5. McClain

[RustShack]

Oh, so now we are on to the highlight reel? Well, I've seen that as well. In fact, someone posted one of his highlight "reels" on the The Lounge a week or so ago. What's next, you crying about me not seeing the game films from the other Big 12 teams defensive coordinators?

Look, I understand that you have complete tunnel vision with McClain and can't see the forest for the trees at this point, but it doesn't mean that you have to be a complete douche nozzle every single time you post.

I haven't said a single thing about McClain in awhile fuck stick. And no you obviously haven't watched his highlight reel because he fucking sucks in pass protection outside of a few plays. He gets better protection from the right side of the line, and if they didn't get rid of the ball almost instantly after snapping he would have given up many sacks and pressures. Hell he even gets pushed back and almost into the QB in his own highlight real on a few snaps for fuck sake. He is a great run blocker(except when it comes to pulling), but his pass blocking is below average.. average at the very best. He is an NFL RT. You just need to realize the difference between schemes and what players are asked to do in the NFL vs in college. You sir, are a fucking idiot.

[RustShack]

You need to realize great players don't come out at every position every year. You are blind and are over valuing Okung just because of his position. LT, just like QB, will go high every single year because of position importance, not because of talent. If this were the draft Albert was in Albert would have gone before Okung, and hell Okung might not of even been a first round pick last year. If you actually understood what a great LT prospect looks like, you would be looking at Buluga, Campell, and Davis all before Okung.

[WildTurkey]

Who said every high pick needs to be an offensive lineman?

I mean, if the general consensus is that our offensive line is fine, we'll be able to get a receiver with our now expected top five pick next year and cross our fingers that Albert finally "gets it" in his third season of starting at the left tackle spot, and we need to focus on the defensive side of the ball, then so be it.

I hope you are all happy as pigs in mud when the Chiefs actually pick McClain, because I don't think that Okung is going to be there anyway as the Redskins desperately need an offensive tackle as do the Buccaneers.

1. Suh
2. McCoy
3. Berry
4. Okung
5. McClain

Albert was just fine his rookie season.... and improved over the season this year..... the Chiefs can draft other lineman but I don't think we need a LT....

[BossChief]

I'll be thinking of you and your words of wisdom when I watch Peyton Manning and Drew Brees in the Super Bowl on Sunday.

how many first round olinemen do those teams have, combined?

[RustShack]

Sacapoo doesn't understand that its takes time for most players to develop. Hes also going to be the first one on the Albert bandwagon next year when hes kicking ass.

[WildTurkey]

how many first round olinemen do those teams have, combined?

let alone top 5 lineman

[WildTurkey]

I just hope that Berry somehow falls to us and we don't have to worry about this shit

[Saccopoo]

how many first round olinemen do those teams have, combined?

Why?

Because those two teams were mentioned as a response the asshats assertion that defense wins championships.

However, I can go you one better - how many first round draft picks do either of these teams have at linebacker? At safety?

[Mecca]

Okung is nothing like Ferguson, if you want to compare a player to Ferguson this year it's Charles Brown.

Brown is not nearly as ready or experienced as Ferguson was but they are/were both light coming out, athletic and have no other position than LT because they aren't dominant power blockers.

Also after losing weight Albert would not remotely make for a good guard unless you like watching guards get manhandled by guys that are now 50lbs heavier than him.

[Saccopoo]

Oh, by the way, these teams (Saints and Colts) have a combined one player on the offensive line that was taken in the first round of the NFL draft.

And just to save you from digging, neither team has a linebacker or safety that was taken in the first round.

So, 1 - 0.

[Mecca]

Jammal Brown was the only one and he's on IR should you really be counting him he hasn't played a single snap this year?

And technically Vilma was a 1st rounder just not by that team.

[Saccopoo]

Also after losing weight Albert would not remotely make for a good guard unless you like watching guards get manhandled by guys that are now 50lbs heavier than him.

Probably just as painful as watching him get overpowered by DE's or out quicked by OLB's in his current state.

[Saccopoo]

Jammal Brown was the only one and he's on IR should you really be counting him he hasn't played a single snap this year?

And technically Vilma was a 1st rounder just not by that team.

So it's a wash...

[Mecca]

Albert should get another year, it's pretty hard to rail a guy who has all the talent that has had 2 different coaching staffs, 2 different schemes and a coach that thought making him lose weight was important all while switching positions in a 2 year span.

[Mecca]

I can sit here and start listing off how many really good teams have built with playmakers early and linemen mid to late.

The Colts are a perfect example of a team that valued playmakers early in the draft.

[Saccopoo]

I can sit here and start listing off how many really good teams have built with playmakers early and linemen mid to late.

The Colts are a perfect example of a team that valued playmakers early in the draft.

Dez Bryant it is.

[Mecca]

And I'm not really a proponent of using a top 5 pick on Rolando McClain but it's something Pioli would do.

[RustShack]

I'm sorry jackass, but the Chiefs made the commitment of going to the 3-4 and this team is going to be build around the defense. Unless they think Okung can play NT he won't be the pick. This team is full of Parcells disciples, Parcells who built his team around the defense. Pioli's Super Bowl runs with the Patriots were because of their great defense. Todd Haley grew up around the Steelers, another defensive team. He went on to coach with the Bear and Cowboys, defensive teams. He was hired by Wisinhunt from the Cardinals, from the defensive Steelers. Weis has always been apart of teams where his offense managed the game and their defense won games. Your a fucking idiot if you think our entire staff and front office is going to go against their roots.

[RustShack]

The Colts and Saints both have a great safety. It doesn't matter where they were drafted, because they are up there. I will take Saunders or Sharper over John Tait.

[Mecca]

So you're saying the Chiefs are going to take Dan Williams?

[RustShack]

Whats even more funny though, the three highest picks Pioli has ever had.. #2 overall went to a Safety when they were with the Browns, #6 went to a DE(DT at the time), and #10 went to a LB. Oh and how can I forget, last years #3 went to a DE. I wonder if its a coincidence? I wonder if he will continue to follow his patterns of using the majority of the high round picks on defense or if he will completely change his ways because Sacapoo is an idiot and doesn't know what hes talking about?

Hmmm now thats a mystery.

[RustShack]

So you're saying the Chiefs are going to take Dan Williams?

No, the Chiefs are not talking any DLine #5 overall. Thats me further saying Okung wont be the pick.

[Saccopoo]

The Colts and Saints both have a great safety. It doesn't matter where they were drafted, because they are up there. I will take Saunders or Sharper over John Tait.

Don't be a hypocrite. You were the asshole squealing about first round draft picks on the offensive line. I don't give a flying fuck if Sharper was a 12th round draft pick. He wasn't a first. Oh, Jeff Saturday is a great center, so it's like he's a first...idiot.

By the way, who is Saunders?

[RustShack]

Don't be a hypocrite. You were the asshole squealing about first round draft picks on the offensive line. I don't give a flying fuck if Sharper was a 12th round draft pick. He wasn't a first. Oh, Jeff Saturday is a great center, so it's like he's a first...idiot.

By the way, who is Saunders?

Saturday? Are you seriously talking about a Center in the first now ROFL

The point is we already have a first round LT, we don't need another. You being a stupid fucking idiot wont change the fact that Okung physically nor mentally could come in here and beat out Albert for LT. Oh and I like the flip to spelling, always a sign of when someone knows they are wrong and want to change the subject. Go to bed kid, the adults are speaking.

[Saccopoo]

Whats even more funny though, the three highest picks Pioli has ever had.. #2 overall went to a Safety when they were with the Browns, #6 went to a DE(DT at the time), and #10 went to a LB. Oh and how can I forget, last years #3 went to a DE. I wonder if its a coincidence? I wonder if he will continue to follow his patterns of using the majority of the high round picks on defense or if he will completely change his ways because Sacapoo is an idiot and doesn't know what hes talking about?

Hmmm now thats a mystery.

The only mystery around here is how you manage to remember to breath.

I can't remember saying anything about what I though Pioli was going to do, so again, for about the 2,487th time, you interject some irrelevant idiocy into the conversation.

[Saccopoo]

Saturday? Are you seriously talking about a Center in the first now ROFL

Okay, this is my last response to you because you are obviously too dumb to follow this conversation or relate one post to another. I know it's not your fault (well, maybe you huffed a shit ton of glue or paint or something when you were a kid and it's not genetically induced stupidity), so I'll just refrain from responding to you in an effort to keep you from further embarrassing yourself.

The point is we already have a first round LT, we don't need another.

The fact that he was a first round pick doesn't change his performance on the field, which, to this point, has been less than stellar.

You being a stupid ****ing idiot wont change the fact that Okung physically nor mentally could come in here and beat out Albert for LT.

Now I am actually hoping that they pick Okung just to watch your response when he opens the season at LT.

Oh and I like the flip to spelling, always a sign of when someone knows they are wrong and want to change the subject. Go to bed kid, the adults are speaking.

What are talking about? What spelling?

If you are an adult, I'd be really shocked. Honestly. You act/post like your an immature 17 year old.

[Mecca]

This is my opinion..

I think this team is going to take McClain first, it's not what I'd do but it's what I think they'll do.

I think they'll follow that by trying to get guys like Charles Brown and Terrence Cody in the 2nd since those guys are basic carbon fits for what this coach and GM like.

[Saccopoo]

This is my opinion..

I think this team is going to take McClain first, it's not what I'd do but it's what I think they'll do.

I think they'll follow that by trying to get guys like Charles Brown and Terrence Cody in the 2nd since those guys are basic carbon fits for what this coach and GM like.

I'm with you 100%. Though they might take a flyer on a receiver if either one of those two guys aren't there in the second with the later pick.

[Mecca]

I have extreme question about drafting Charles Brown but he's basically exactly what Haley seems to want Albert to be so it makes sense.

[RustShack]

The fact that he was a first round pick doesn't change his performance on the field, which, to this point, has been less than stellar.

The fact that hes only a SECOND YEAR PLAYER does. The fact that he dropped to a lighter weight than what he played even in college does. The fact we changed blocking schemes a week before the season does. The fact he had to learn a whole new technique and mechanics(just like Okung will have to coming from the spread). You just don't get that teams run different schemes, you don't get that different blockers fit different systems. You don't get that Albert is a better LT for OUR team than Okung is. Sure Okung could be a better LT than Albert on some teams, but not this team. On our team Okungs best position is RT.

People who give up on first round picks after just their second year(especially when he was in four completely different systems in the last three years) need to have their draft talking abilities revoked.

[Saccopoo]

I have extreme question about drafting Charles Brown but he's basically exactly what Haley seems to want Albert to be so it makes sense.

I wouldn't be happy with it as I don't think Brown is a viable NFL LT, or at least what he showed during the USC games I watched. But I think he'd fit what Haley envisions as an appropriate LT in his zone block scheme.

The problem with trying to predict what they do in this draft from a player perspective is that they have so many holes, and Haley has a couple of positions that he just seems to loathe - mainly the receivers and safeties. However, I think that Pioli has major input on the type of players that get drafted, probably more than Haley does and it will be interesting to see who they put the value on in this next draft. Even if Berry is available, it's not a given that he'll be the pick.

I wouldn't be too surprised if they traded down and picked Jared Odrick in the late teens/early 20's. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they picked him at #5.

[Mecca]

I'm not big on using high picks on non elite prospects but frankly I don't think this regime is remotely married to Branden Albert.

Part of the reason I've never thought we'd take Okung is the jizz fest Pioli will have over McClain that and if you gave Haley a pick of OT's he'd probably take Brown.

[Mecca]

I wouldn't be happy with it as I don't think Brown is a viable NFL LT, or at least what he showed during the USC games I watched. But I think he'd fit what Haley envisions as an appropriate LT in his zone block scheme.

The problem with trying to predict what they do in this draft from a player perspective is that they have so many holes, and Haley has a couple of positions that he just seems to loathe - mainly the receivers and safeties. However, I think that Pioli has major input on the type of players that get drafted, probably more than Haley does and it will be interesting to see who they put the value on in this next draft. Even if Berry is available, it's not a given that he'll be the pick.

I wouldn't be too surprised if they traded down and picked Jared Odrick in the late teens/early 20's. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they picked him at #5.

He needs to gain about 15lbs, I don't think he'd have much problem doing it he has a very large fame to work with. He is athletic, he is from a pro style system and he's already use to functioning in a zone blocking scheme since that's what SC does.

I'm not sure he's ready to play from day 1 at LT though...Charles Brown to me is like D'Brickashaw Ferguson with less experience. He's light yet athletic and I don't think he will ever be a mammoth mauling run blocker he's a pulling athletic type.

Which is why Brown's only position at the next level is LT.

[Saccopoo]

The fact that hes only a SECOND YEAR PLAYER does. The fact that he dropped to a lighter weight than what he played even in college does. The fact we changed blocking schemes a week before the season does. The fact he had to learn a whole new technique and mechanics(just like Okung will have to coming from the spread). You just don't get that teams run different schemes, you don't get that different blockers fit different systems. You don't get that Albert is a better LT for OUR team than Okung is. Sure Okung could be a better LT than Albert on some teams, but not this team. On our team Okungs best position is RT.

People who give up on first round picks after just their second year(especially when he was in four completely different systems in the last three years) need to have their draft talking abilities revoked.

I'm not so sure that he's the right guy for Haley. Not that Okung is either, but Okung is closer to what he wants out of a LT than Albert will ever be. Mecca is closer to it with the suggestion of Charlie Brown than anything, but I suspect that Albert will be given another chance - though there is no guarantee, as I'm sure that Haley wasn't too overly pleased with his play this past season. They aren't into him for much money and they've already shown a propensity to have little patience with Herm/Carl guys.

I imagine that they will try to trade down and get more picks. Buffalo and Jacksonville might try to leapfrog Seattle, Cleveland and even Oakland if they think that a qb that they like might not be there. But they could pick a number of different players if they stay at #5, Okung included.

[Mecca]

Look if you want something in the way of a trade down, hope that St Louis takes Suh. Of course this entire forum would flip because we'd be trading down with Berry on the board but I think the Chiefs have very little interest in drafting him.

[Saccopoo]

Look if you want something in the way of a trade down, hope that St Louis takes Suh. Of course this entire forum would flip because we'd be trading down with Berry on the board but I think the Chiefs have very little interest in drafting him.

I don't see them picking Berry either (though he's the guy I'd like if he was still available at the #5). And I think that St. Louis takes Suh. I just don't see them falling in love with either Bradford or Clausen and Suh is the standout in this draft class even though they've spent two of the last three years on defensive line guys (Long and Carriker).

They might even hold out hope that they suck enough next season to potentially draft Gabbert in 2011.

[Mecca]

Also I've seen every single game Charles Brown has ever played, I could probably discuss what he can and can't do and what he is for 30 minutes.

[Saccopoo]

And if the Vick to St. Louis thing has any sliver of truth to it, they'd definitely take Suh.

[Mecca]

Here's what I'll say since I think Brown going to our team actually has a good chance of happening.

He was recruited as a TE/OL/DL since he did all 3 in high school, he came in as a TE redshirted and switched to OT halfway through that year so he never lined up as a TE in college.

His feet are about as good as you could ask for, the agility is top notch for an offensive lineman. He sets up extremely quickly, he almost always gets to the 2nd level in run blocking, he does a really good job on tosses and sweeps. He also loves to throw cut blocks, probably a bit more than he should, but that's zone blocking. His initial punch to defenders is very strong and he does a good job of keeping guys off balance.

Now the weaknesses he has are he can be overpowered and pushed into the backfield at 6'6 and only 285, he needs to add about 20lbs for the next level. He doesn't offer any versatility because he is a pure finesse player so he is a LT or nothing.

Just in general is a guy who is a finesse playing zone blocking LT. Good pass protector probably will never be a better than above average run blocker.

[Saccopoo]

That about sums up what I saw from him in the games I watched.

[Mecca]

He probably is a perfect fit for a zone blocking team that prefers it's linemen to be athletic though.

He also has considerable upside. probably more than any other OT in the class, if you coach up his natural talent to where it could get him we're talking one of the best pass protectors in the league.

[DaKCMan AP]

The only mystery around here is how you manage to remember to breath.


:spock:

[Sfeihc]

Ugoh?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Besides Brandon Albert?

I don't know why you are being so protective of a bad Carl Peterson pick. You are defending him being a legit LT as if he was your own flesh and blood.

Funny you say that, considering I'm actually open to the idea of several players with the 5th pick - while you're married to one - and at a position where there's not a hole, no matter how much you want to try to create one.

And reading is fundamental.

Who's been drafted 15th or higher SPECIFICALLY TO PLAY GUARD?

Not "played guard in college and moved to tackle."

Drafted to play guard in the NFL.

I'll wait.

[DumbHillbillies]

Honestly, this wouldn't be the worst case scenario and I could live with the pick. Overall the oline will be better. I could definitely see pioli going this way seeing as how much value he puts on line play.

[Chiefnj2]

Who's been drafted 15th or higher SPECIFICALLY TO PLAY GUARD?



WHat does that have to do with Albert?

[Chiefnj2]

Honestly, this wouldn't be the worst case scenario and I could live with the pick. Overall the oline will be better. I could definitely see pioli going this way seeing as how much value he puts on line play.

What makes you think Pioli values line play?

[DumbHillbillies]

T-Jack picked at 3 when he was projected to be a mid to late first round pick.

[Chiefnj2]

T-Jack picked at 3 when he was projected to be a mid to late first round pick.

A lot of final draft rankings had him in the top 10. I thought you were referring to OL play, not DL.

[DumbHillbillies]

A lot of final draft rankings had him in the top 10. I thought you were referring to OL play, not DL.

No, that's why I just said line. Really, it is just my guess that he is a line first guy. But, we will no more soon. His first draft that he is in total control of he goes Dline so it has me wondering.

[DumbHillbillies]

Not that it bears absolute weight but sometimes bias plays into the philosophy. This is his early bio.

Pioli played defensive tackle at Central Connecticut State (1983-87), where he was a three-time Division II All- New England selection. In 1988, after graduating with a degree in communications, he accepted a two-year graduate assistant position at Syracuse University, where he also earned a master's degree from the S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications.

He accepted a full-time coaching opportunity at Murray State, where he spent one season as the offensive line coach (1990) and one season as the defensive line coach (1991). He left the coaching ranks to join the Browns personnel department in 1992.

[milkman]

Fortunately, Pioli, who is a big believer in positional value

Really.

A 5 tech at #3 overall last year really serves as evidence to support that claim, doesn't it?

From Walters/Matt McGuire's Mock:
Kansas City Chiefs are handcuffed to taking a left tackle at this pick. It will be interesting to see whether it ends up being Okung, Anthony Davis or Bruce Campbell, as the battle for the No. 1 tackle spot is one of the best storylines of the 2010 NFL Draft.

From Draftcountdown:
Oklahoma State’s Russell Okung isn’t an elite prospect in the mold of Tony Boselli, Jon Ogden or Orlando Pace but he has clearly emerged as the top offensive tackle in this class

So the sites you are using to support your argument can't even agree on who the actual best prospect is?

[Chiefs=Champions]

FFS, that is a distracting ****ing sig.

LMAO

[Hootie]

I have a hard time listening to all the gurus talk about offensive line as if they know it or something...everyone was super against Clady and he's just going to be a perennial pro bowler here on out...

[milkman]

I have a hard time listening to all the gurus talk about offensive line as if they know it or something...everyone was super against Clady and he's just going to be a perennial pro bowler here on out...

For fuck's sake, why do we have to go through all the same shit with your dumb ass over, and over, and over again?

Clady was a talented LT and was a great fit for the scheme that the Rat ran in Denver.

No one even argued that he wasn't talented.

But the argument was that he wasn't a great downhill blocker (and he still isn't) and wasn't a good fit for the power runnig scheme that Herman fucking Edwards wanted ot run.

And even though the scheme change wasn't dramatic with Josh McDaniels taking over, Clady did have his struggles in his second season, and his run blocking in that scheme wasn't nearly at the same level as it was in the Rat's scheme.

[OnTheWarpath15]

WHat does that have to do with Albert?

Oh, I don't know.

Maybe because people want to slide him in to play....guard?

He wasn't drafted to play guard, everyone thinks his skill-set best suits the LT position, and he was drafted as such.

Unfortunately, FindTheOkung either doesn't understand, or wants to even try to understand that you don't give up on a 2nd year player that has had a bad half-season -period - much less for a guy that honestly is pretty much a spitting image of Albert, with with slower feet.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Really.

A 5 tech at #3 overall last year really serves as evidence to support that claim, doesn't it?







So the sites you are using to support your argument can't even agree on who the actual best prospect is?

LMAO

[Chiefnj2]

Oh, I don't know.

Maybe because people want to slide him in to play....guard?

He wasn't drafted to play guard, everyone thinks his skill-set best suits the LT position, and he was drafted as such.

Unfortunately, FindTheOkung either doesn't understand, or wants to even try to understand that you don't give up on a 2nd year player that has had a bad half-season -period - much less for a guy that honestly is pretty much a spitting image of Albert, with with slower feet.

That doesn't prove your point. You asked who was drafted to play guard in the top 15. Herm and Carl drafted him to be the LOT. Just because the new staff doesn't think he fits, doesn't change the fact he was drafted to be a LOT. Nor would it be the first time a top 15 LOT was moved to another position. It happens.

[OnTheWarpath15]

That doesn't prove your point. You asked who was drafted to play guard in the top 15. Herm and Carl drafted him to be the LOT. Just because the new staff doesn't think he fits, doesn't change the fact he was drafted to be a LOT. Nor would it be the first time a top 15 LOT was moved to another position. It happens.

Not after two years, two HC's and 3 different offensive schemes.

And who other than FindTheOkung thinks the organization thinks he doesn't fit?

Are you telling me that Todd Haley made the kid lose 30 pounds to play LT, and is going to ask him to gain that weight back to try to play inside?

[Chiefnj2]

Not after two years, two HC's and 3 different offensive schemes.

And who other than FindTheOkung thinks the organization thinks he doesn't fit?

Are you telling me that Todd Haley made the kid lose 30 pounds to play LT, and is going to ask him to gain that weight back to try to play inside?

I don't have the faintest idea what Haley will do since he was a complete retard his first year. As a fan it is all but impossible to judge any offensive player last year because it is inherently unfair for a coach to completely scrap a system a week before the season starts. Haley has also been pretty vague and cryptic about Albert's future role on the team.

I don't know what KC has in Albert. His first year he was protected because the team ran the pistol formation the majority of the year. The 2nd year was a complete mess for everyone. His play improved somewhat the last few games, but I don't think he was great by any means which is what some think. He had a poor game against Buffalo.

At the end of the day I want them to fix the OL. I don't really care how they do it. Albert can play inside, outside or not at all - it doesn't matter to me as long as the OL opens holes and protects the QB.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't have the faintest idea what Haley will do since he was a complete retard his first year. As a fan it is all but impossible to judge any offensive player last year because it is inherently unfair for a coach to completely scrap a system a week before the season starts. Haley has also been pretty vague and cryptic about Albert's future role on the team.

I don't know what KC has in Albert. His first year he was protected because the team ran the pistol formation the majority of the year. The 2nd year was a complete mess for everyone. His play improved somewhat the last few games, but I don't think he was great by any means which is what some think. He had a poor game against Buffalo.

At the end of the day I want them to fix the OL. I don't really care how they do it. Albert can play inside, outside or not at all - it doesn't matter to me as long as the OL opens holes and protects the QB.

We didn't run the pistol in Week 1 at NE, and I don't recall Richard Seymour registering a single sack.

He allowed 1 sack to John Abraham in Week 3. Not running the pistol.

Albert was holding his own well before the pistol was installed.

[Chiefnj2]

We didn't run the pistol in Week 1 at NE, and I don't recall Richard Seymour registering a single sack.

He allowed 1 sack to John Abraham in Week 3. Not running the pistol.

Albert was holding his own well before the pistol was installed.

He did great for a rookie in weeks 1 and 2. He did not play well against Atlanta and the QB was pressured all day. If you want to annoint him based on his first two weeks in the league, go right ahead.

[OnTheWarpath15]

He did great for a rookie in weeks 1 and 2. He did not play well against Atlanta and the QB was pressured all day. If you want to annoint him based on his first two weeks in the league, go right ahead.

I'm not annoiting him. No one is.

It just seems that FindTheOkung, and now to some degree, yourself, want to give the kid no credit for playing solid football for 24 out of 32 games, and refuse to consider that a 30 pound weight loss and change in scheme had an effect on the 8 poor games he's played.

And FTR, Albert did not play poorly against Atlanta. He gave up one sack, and was doing a pretty decent job on Abraham. Atlanta's coaching staff must have thought the same, because they decided to match him up with McIntosh in the 2nd half - and was successful.

[Chiefnj2]

I'm not annoiting him. No one is.

It just seems that FindTheOkung, and now to some degree, yourself, want to give the kid no credit for playing solid football for 24 out of 32 games, and refuse to consider that a 30 pound weight loss and change in scheme had an effect on the 8 poor games he's played.

And FTR, Albert did not play poorly against Atlanta. He gave up one sack, and was doing a pretty decent job on Abraham. Atlanta's coaching staff must have thought the same, because they decided to match him up with McIntosh in the 2nd half - and was successful.

Can you read? I said it is all but impossible to judge him because of the circumstances he faced his first two years with KC. I understand the scheme set everyone back.

As far as Atlanta is concerned, according to PFF Albert gave up 1 sack, 4 pressures and 1 more hit.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Can you read? I said it is all but impossible to judge him because of the circumstances he faced his first two years with KC. I understand the scheme set everyone back.

As far as Atlanta is concerned, according to PFF Albert gave up 1 sack, 4 pressures and 1 more hit.

Not at all poor for a guy playing his 3rd NFL game at LT, against one of the best, protecting a 3rd string QB.

And personally, I don't think it's impossible to judge him at all.

He's played 8 poor games, all immediately following a scheme change and major weight loss.

The other 24 games of his career, he's ranged from average to solid.

For me, that's enough to consider the LT position locked down for at least another year.

[RustShack]

Is it a coincidence that when Albert got back up to his previous playing weight near the end of the year(muscle this time instead of fat) that he was back to playing like his previous self? You know when he was being labeled as the best LT in that draft over the likes of Long and Clady.

[doomy3]

Is it a coincidence that when Albert got back up to his previous playing weight near the end of the year(muscle this time instead of fat) that he was back to playing like his previous self? You know when he was being labeled as the best LT in that draft over the likes of Long and Clady.

I'm sorry, but no one, other than some people on this board were saying that.

[Rausch]

Is it a coincidence that when Albert got back up to his previous playing weight near the end of the year(muscle this time instead of fat) that he was back to playing like his previous self? You know when he was being labeled as the best LT in that draft over the likes of Long and Clady.

This team has so many needs and so little depth taking another LT, at 5, would be fucking stupid.

[milkman]

Is it a coincidence that when Albert got back up to his previous playing weight near the end of the year(muscle this time instead of fat) that he was back to playing like his previous self? You know when he was being labeled as the best LT in that draft over the likes of Long and Clady.

Uh......Who labeled him as the best LT in that draft?

[milkman]

I'm sorry, but no one, other than some people on this board were saying that.

Damn the phone!

[RustShack]

Uh......Who labeled him as the best LT in that draft?

The people who are saying we should now draft Okung.

[milkman]

The people who are saying we should now draft Okung.

I certainly don't remember that.

I remember they all thought it was a good pick and saw the potential for him to develop into a good LT, but I don't believe anyone labeled him as the best LT in that draft.

I think Long and Clady were generally considered the best.

[Chiefnj2]

I think Long and Clady were generally considered the best.

Not on this board.

[Dave Lane]

If the Chiefs do take Okung and then Pouncey in the second, The O-Line is fixed. The defense automatically is improved because then they don't have to spend 40+ minutes a game on the field.

Or Cassel 40 plus times on the ground.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I certainly don't remember that.

I remember they all thought it was a good pick and saw the potential for him to develop into a good LT, but I don't believe anyone labeled him as the best LT in that draft.

I think Long and Clady were generally considered the best.

I don't either.

I recall people saying he had the potential to be the best for our scheme, but nothing more than that.

I think people are confusing some of us realizing that Clady didn't fit in our scheme as saying Albert was a better prospect.

[Dave Lane]

:spock:

Because that worked so well in the DV era when our o-line was all-world.

I know we were horrible. Reeally really bad team. Herm was such a great refresher after the fail that was DV.

[milkman]

Not on this board.

And we are not talking about this board.

God damn, why is every****ing thing so ****ing difficult?

[Dave Lane]

Yep I have to admit it no one knows OL like CP draftniks unquestioned.

T Russell Okung - One of three finalists for the Outland Trophy, Okung allowed just one sack and two quarterback pressures all season. He was credited with 127 knockdown blocks and 58 domination blocks. OSU led the Big 12 in rushing for the fourth consecutive season.

Suckage

[Brock]

I know we were horrible. Reeally really bad team. Herm was such a great refresher after the fail that was DV.

In either case, 0-1 in the playoffs.

[RustShack]

Yep I have to admit it no one knows OL like CP draftniks unquestioned.

T Russell Okung - One of three finalists for the Outland Trophy, Okung allowed just one sack and two quarterback pressures all season. He was credited with 127 knockdown blocks and 58 domination blocks. OSU led the Big 12 in rushing for the fourth consecutive season.

Suckage

OKST doesn't pass as much as a lot of other schools, when they do pass its out of the shotgun and the ball is quickly released. Okung doesn't hold up blockers as long has he would in a Pro Style offense, and if you actually watched him play pass blocking isn't his thing. He looks better because of the spread, and a lot of college linemen don't give up sacks. Herb Taylor didn't give up sacks, that didn't make him a great NFL LT. Okung is a great run blocker, and thats what makes him a RT. RT's aren't worth top five picks. Albert is a better pass blocker, and that makes him a better LT for us. Okung can't pull to save his life, and we used Albert to pull a lot last year, and he did it well. Thats what makes him a better LT for us.

[Brock]

Yep I have to admit it no one knows OL like CP draftniks unquestioned.

T Russell Okung - One of three finalists for the Outland Trophy, Okung allowed just one sack and two quarterback pressures all season. He was credited with 127 knockdown blocks and 58 domination blocks. OSU led the Big 12 in rushing for the fourth consecutive season.

Suckage

Who cares if he sucks or not? Replacing a guy you already have after 2 years is idiotic.

[keg in kc]

I know we were horrible. Reeally really bad team. Herm was such a great refresher after the fail that was DV.How many of those guys did the chiefs draft in the top 5?

[philfree]

Who cares if he sucks or not? Replacing a guy you already have after 2 years is idiotic.

I'm not wanting to draft an OT in the 1st round but Pioli and Haley didn't draft Albert so I don't think it really matters to them if he's only been in the league for two years. If their evaluation leads them to believe that Albert isn't their LT then they shouldn't hesitate to replace him. I hope they give him another year and draft some defense early on in the draft. And also if they upgrade other positions on the line maybe that will clear the way for Albert to reach our expectations.


PhilFree:arrow:

[Dave Lane]

How many of those guys did the chiefs draft in the top 5?

None. Which to my basic point on LT. Who cares? Maybe Okung is great maybe he's not. Same with Berry. Never take a safety in the top 10 is the basic rule. He may turn out great he may not. He'd be a great addition but I'm not locked in to Berry or bust. I'd like Suh if I was getting anyone but he might go Jamarcus bust on us to. I'll actually give all the analysts in the world some credit and the scouts too. No one on this board knows more than they do or has any of their livelihood tied up in making scouting decisions. When any of you get a check from a NFL team let us know and I definitely will pay closer attention.

[Chiefnj2]

and if you actually watched him play pass blocking isn't his thing.

Not true at all.

[WildTurkey]

None. Which to my basic point on LT. Who cares? Maybe Okung is great maybe he's not. Same with Berry. Never take a safety in the top 10 is the basic rule. He may turn out great he may not. He'd be a great addition but I'm not locked in to Berry or bust. I'd like Suh if I was getting anyone but he might go Jamarcus bust on us to. I'll actually give all the analysts in the world some credit and the scouts too. No one on this board knows more than they do or has any of their livelihood tied up in making scouting decisions. When any of you get a check from a NFL team let us know and I definitely will pay closer attention.

I disagree, I think we know the Chiefs a hell of a lot more than your average draft site or talking head... You're right about the scouting part we are not scouts but we are passionate fans and have every right to nit pick and bitch about the draft

[Danman]

Saccopoo,

Did Albert steal your Girl/car/beer/oreo cookies? You gots a lotta hate for one guy

[BossChief]

1) Okung
2a) Iupati
2b) Johnson
3) Pouncey

If we are gonna do it, might as well get it over with and never have to talk about it agaain, right?

Just shoot me

[Dave Lane]

I disagree, I think we know the Chiefs a hell of a lot more than your average draft site or talking head... You're right about the scouting part we are not scouts but we are passionate fans and have every right to nit pick and bitch about the draft

Fine nitpick. Say you don't like the pick or this guy because X Y or Z. Its fine. It doesn't make someone a retard because they disagree. No one has ANY idea how any of these guys will do. The draft is the biggest crapshoot in the history of the world. Anyone who is acting like they know how this draft will shake out is delusional.

[philfree]

1) Okung
2a) Iupati
2b) Johnson
3) Pouncey

If we are gonna do it, might as well get it over with and never have to talk about it agaain, right?

Just shoot me


It's pretty funny really. LOL


PhilFree:arrow:

[keg in kc]

None. Which to my basic point on LT. Who cares? Maybe Okung is great maybe he's not. Same with Berry. Never take a safety in the top 10 is the basic rule. He may turn out great he may not. He'd be a great addition but I'm not locked in to Berry or bust. I'd like Suh if I was getting anyone but he might go Jamarcus bust on us to. I'll actually give all the analysts in the world some credit and the scouts too. No one on this board knows more than they do or has any of their livelihood tied up in making scouting decisions. When any of you get a check from a NFL team let us know and I definitely will pay closer attention.I'll take the best safety prospect of the last decade over a LT who'd be a mid- to low-1st in a draft with any blue-chip tackles.

I'd have no problem with Suh for the same reason I'd have no problem with Barry. They're generational players.

Whereas Okung is a guy who doesn't even grade higher than the guy (drafted two years ago), that he'd be picked to replace.

It makes absolutely zero sense.

As for the "when any of you get a check from an NFL team", well, none of the draft "analysts" get one either, last I checked. They talk to people on the phone, read analysis. They're like glorified mecca's. They just happen to get paid for the stuff they conjure out of the ether.

Not that it matters. I mean, seriously, this is a discussion on a fucking bulletin board.

[Brock]

1) Okung
2a) Iupati
2b) Johnson
3) Pouncey

If we are gonna do it, might as well get it over with and never have to talk about it agaain, right?

Just shoot me

WE WOULD BE UNSTOPPABLE, JUST LIKE WHEN WE PUT HOLMES AND JOHNSON IN THE SAME BACKFIELD

[Mecca]

Yep I have to admit it no one knows OL like CP draftniks unquestioned.

T Russell Okung - One of three finalists for the Outland Trophy, Okung allowed just one sack and two quarterback pressures all season. He was credited with 127 knockdown blocks and 58 domination blocks. OSU led the Big 12 in rushing for the fourth consecutive season.

Suckage

Those awards and stats mean nothing to scouts when it comes to looking at how they project to the next level.

[Coogs]

1) Okung
2a) Iupati
2b) Johnson
3) Pouncey

If we are gonna do it, might as well get it over with and never have to talk about it agaain, right?

Just shoot me

Wouldn't we still need a RT since neither Okung or Albert fit that discription?

[BossChief]

Wouldn't we still need a RT since neither Okung or Albert fit that discription?

if details were involved we wouldnt be having this conversation in the first place...

[Coogs]

if details were involved we wouldnt be having this conversation in the first place...

ROFL:clap:

[the Talking Can]

how do you look at the Chiefs and decide that LT is even in the top 10 of positions needing to be upgraded, much less #1?






?

[Nightfyre]

how do you look at the Chiefs and decide that LT is even in the top 10 of positions needing to be upgraded, much less #1?






?

If you draft a left tackle you can move albert to rt or wr or nt and kill 2 birds with one stone! Of course it will work just like in madden! Every time I draft a tackle at 5 in madden he is about an 85 and albert is only an 80. But he is an 83 at guard, which is a ten point upgrade over wade. That's because guard is his natural position.

[/saccogoo]
Posted via Mobile Device

[DeezNutz]

Either that or she married some douchey schmuck of a guy who was equal to Haley Berry's husband (who cheated on her with some skank), Mutt Lange, who cheated on Shania Twain, even though he is an old, ugly as hell ate up roadie, Hugh Grant who decides to get a blow job from a street corner hooker rather than go home to Liz Hurley, or Kim Cattrell's ex-husband who thought he was such a lady killer that he'd try to make the moves on all her friends.

I'm glad it's always the chicks fault though.

LMAO.

Francis, lighten up, pull your panties out. It was a cliche.

[Saccopoo]

how do you look at the Chiefs and decide that LT is even in the top 10 of positions needing to be upgraded, much less #1?

Other than the 13 penalties, 7 sacks, and double digit quarterback hits and pressures? And being ineffective in run blocking?

I guess he did okay if you take those things out of consideration.

No need for a better offensive line. We should focus on defense. I mean, we didn't just pick back to back defensive line players with our first pick in the draft the past two years or anything silly like that. Sure, we'll have to give those Herm/Carl first rounders another couple of years before we need to really think about replacing them because everyone knows that Herm/Carl could really scout the talent - but talent that needs about five years or so to mature. To focus on building a decent offense (especially an offensive line) would be retarded. Everyone knows that you can get All-Pro level players on the O-line later in the sixth round and beyond. Especially when our quarterback is a guy who costs us the Sanchize and we'd rather see him killed this next year guaranteeing us a possible chance at Jake Locker next year in the draft. (We'd really like Blaine Gabbert, but he played at Missouri and since they are a Big 12 spread team, that means that he's going to be epic fail in the NFL, so fuck him.) Once Locker is in place, then we will authorize the selection of decent offensive linemen because we don't want our QBOTF who was OUR draft pick to get needlessly injured. But no offensive linemen in the draft until our QBOTF that isn't a Big 12 product is drafted by a front office approved by Jason Whitlock and a majority of certified/initiated CP Drafturbators. We need to get that safety or MLB NOW!!! Playmakers at defensive support positions win champioinships!!! Ask Brian Urlacher or Deron Cherry. They'll tell you that's the truth.

[warrior]

[QUOTE=the Talking Can;6502577]how do you look at the Chiefs and decide that LT is even in the top 10 of positions needing to be upgraded, much less #1?



:eek:
We don't--Chief need a RT and center on O line but certainly not in rd 1

[OnTheWarpath15]

Other than the 13 penalties, 7 sacks, and double digit quarterback hits and pressures? And being ineffective in run blocking?

I guess he did okay if you take those things out of consideration.

No need for a better offensive line.

This is why people think you're a dumbass.

There is a need for improvement on the OL.

However, LT is the last of 5 OL positions that needs to be upgraded. Center is probably our biggest need, followed by RG, RT and LG.

You're the only dipshit that thinks otherwise.

[Saccopoo]

LMAO.

Francis, lighten up, pull your panties out. It was a cliche.

It's an ignorant, sexist cliche that is usually mentioned by guys that have no chance at said hot chick. It's simply easier for them to discount her because she's crazy versus just being a person that they are fearful to interact with because of her physical appearance. Either that or it's a subconscious verbally aggressive response triggered by feelings of personal inadequacy and ineptitude brought about by a lack of maternal attention during childhood.

[DeezNutz]

It's an ignorant, sexist cliche that is usually mentioned by guys that have no chance at said hot chick. It's simply easier for them to discount her because she's crazy versus just being a person that they are fearful to interact with because of her physical appearance. Either that or it's a subconscious verbally aggressive response triggered by feelings of personal inadequacy and ineptitude brought about by a lack of maternal attention during childhood.

:facepalm:

Saccofreud.

Talk to Lacan about why your gaze has landed squarely on the o-line.

[OnTheWarpath15]

:facepalm:

Saccofreud.

Talk to Lacan about why your gaze has landed squarely on the o-line.

ROFL

Saccofreud.

[the Talking Can]

Other than the 13 penalties, 7 sacks, and double digit quarterback hits and pressures? And being ineffective in run blocking?

I guess he did okay if you take those things out of consideration.

No need for a better offensive line. We should focus on defense. I mean, we didn't just pick back to back defensive line players with our first pick in the draft the past two years or anything silly like that. Sure, we'll have to give those Herm/Carl first rounders another couple of years before we need to really think about replacing them because everyone knows that Herm/Carl could really scout the talent - but talent that needs about five years or so to mature. To focus on building a decent offense (especially an offensive line) would be retarded. Everyone knows that you can get All-Pro level players on the O-line later in the sixth round and beyond. Especially when our quarterback is a guy who costs us the Sanchize and we'd rather see him killed this next year guaranteeing us a possible chance at Jake Locker next year in the draft. (We'd really like Blaine Gabbert, but he played at Missouri and since they are a Big 12 spread team, that means that he's going to be epic fail in the NFL, so **** him.) Once Locker is in place, then we will authorize the selection of decent offensive linemen because we don't want our QBOTF who was OUR draft pick to get needlessly injured. But no offensive linemen in the draft until our QBOTF that isn't a Big 12 product is drafted by a front office approved by Jason Whitlock and a majority of certified/initiated CP Drafturbators. We need to get that safety or MLB NOW!!! Playmakers at defensive support positions win champioinships!!! Ask Brian Urlacher or Deron Cherry. They'll tell you that's the truth.

Where in my post did I say we didn't need a better OL?

I simply pointed out the obvious fact that of all the players on our team that suck and need to be replaced, Albert isn't in the top 10.

Perhaps, trying reading my post before bleeding all over it.

[DeezNutz]

Saccofreud, are you a graduate student somewhere right now?

I love the smell of fresh graduate student in the morning.

[the Talking Can]

[QUOTE=the Talking Can;6502577]how do you look at the Chiefs and decide that LT is even in the top 10 of positions needing to be upgraded, much less #1?



:eek:
We don't--Chief need a RT and center on O line but certainly not in rd 1

we need all of the following more than a LT:

RT
RG
C
NT
3 LBs
2 safeties
#2 WR
#3 WR
QB

that's 12 positions in more desperate need of upgrade than LT



Edit*

and you should probably add LG and #2 RB, making it 14

[OnTheWarpath15]

Saccofreud, are you a graduate student somewhere right now?

I love the smell of fresh graduate student in the morning.

By the content of his posts, he's getting a GED in offensive tackle evaluation.

And failing.

[OnTheWarpath15]

we need all of the following more than a LT:

RT
RG
C
NT
3 LBs
2 safeties
#2 WR
#3 WR
QB

that's 12 positions in more desperate need of upgrade than LT

Ad RB2 to that list, and maybe TE.

[Saccopoo]

This is why people think you're a dumbass.

There is a need for improvement on the OL.

However, LT is the last of 5 OL positions that needs to be upgraded. Center is probably our biggest need, followed by RG, RT and LG.

You're the only dipshit that thinks otherwise.

Oh contraire mon frere. Okung would upgrade the LT spot and the LG spot, thus allowing us to utilize that extra pick that we saved on a guard to be a center. (Pouncey with 2a would be entirely acceptable, though Tennant in round three/four would also be dandy.) At that point, we could turn our attention to the RT spot in the end of round 2, beginning of round 3. In a single draft, our entire offensive line would be substantially upgraded and allow us to utilize our fourth and fifth round picks (four in all) to pick up two safeties and two new linebackers - perhaps Rolle and Johnson as the safeties and AJ Edds and Micah Johnson. It's a win-win for everyone. I don't see how you could possibly complain about that. Look at it again:

1. Russell Okung
2. Maurkice Pouncey
2. Mike Johnson
3. Kyle Calloway
4. Koa Misi
5. Micah Johnson
5. Robert Johnson
5. Myron Rolle

Absolute fucking gold of a draft.

[the Talking Can]

Ad RB2 to that list, and maybe TE.

i added RB in my edit, and you're right about TE, i just forgot...that would make 15

[Nightfyre]

Oh contraire mon frere. Okung would upgrade the LT spot and the LG spot, thus allowing us to utilize that extra pick that we saved on a guard to be a center. (Pouncey with 2a would be entirely acceptable, though Tennant in round three/four would also be dandy.) At that point, we could turn our attention to the RT spot in the end of round 2, beginning of round 3. In a single draft, our entire offensive line would be substantially upgraded and allow us to utilize our fourth and fifth round picks (four in all) to pick up two safeties and two new linebackers - perhaps Rolle and Johnson as the safeties and AJ Edds and Micah Johnson. It's a win-win for everyone. I don't see how you could possibly complain about that. Look at it again:

1. Russell Okung
2. Maurkice Pouncey
2. Mike Johnson
3. Kyle Calloway
4. Koa Misi
5. Micah Johnson
5. Robert Johnson
5. Myron Rolle

Absolute fucking gold of a draft.

He went full retard while quoting mel brooks. How sinful. I don't see how drafting three olineman makes it a gold draft. Fact is, you have three people acclimating to the nfl and one person learning a new position while not upgrading his old position.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BossChief]

Oh contraire mon frere. Okung would upgrade the LT spot and the LG spot, thus allowing us to utilize that extra pick that we saved on a guard to be a center. (Pouncey with 2a would be entirely acceptable, though Tennant in round three/four would also be dandy.) At that point, we could turn our attention to the RT spot in the end of round 2, beginning of round 3. In a single draft, our entire offensive line would be substantially upgraded and allow us to utilize our fourth and fifth round picks (four in all) to pick up two safeties and two new linebackers - perhaps Rolle and Johnson as the safeties and AJ Edds and Micah Johnson. It's a win-win for everyone. I don't see how you could possibly complain about that. Look at it again:

1. Russell Okung
2. Maurkice Pouncey
2. Mike Johnson
3. Kyle Calloway
4. Koa Misi
5. Micah Johnson
5. Robert Johnson
5. Myron Rolle

Absolute fucking gold of a draft.

"This post makes the baby jesus weep"

This is one of the times I wish ROR was still here, he would have a field day with this thread and it would be fun to watch.

[Saccopoo]

He went full retard while quoting mel brooks. How sinful. I don't see how drafting three olineman makes it a gold draft. Fact is, you have three people acclimating to the nfl and one person learning a new position while not upgrading his old position.
Posted via Mobile Device

Four linemen. We are completely revitalizing and upgrading the single worst position as a group in this theoretical draft. At the same time, we are upgrading and improving our linebacking corps and safeties. I don't see how there can be a single complaint with this proposed draft by anyone. Everybody gets what they want, and the Chiefs get immensely better immediately. We get our WR in 2011. We get the best LT, G, C and one of the best RT prospects, along with a quality pass rusher and big thumper in the middle, and two new, athletic, fundamentally sound safeties.

I think it's absolutely brilliant.

[Mecca]

I'm still enjoying this thread because I think the Chiefs will have Charles Brown as their top OT.

[Nightfyre]

Four linemen. We are completely revitalizing and upgrading the single worst position as a group in this theoretical draft. At the same time, we are upgrading and improving our linebacking corps and safeties. I don't see how there can be a single complaint with this proposed draft by anyone. Everybody gets what they want, and the Chiefs get immensely better immediately. We get our WR in 2011. We get the best LT, G, C and one of the best RT prospects, along with a quality pass rusher and big thumper in the middle, and two new, athletic, fundamentally sound safeties.

I think it's absolutely brilliant.

How dense can one person be? Do you have uranium for a skull?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

Also Kyle Calloway will be lucky to go in the 3rd at this point.

[Nightfyre]

I'm still enjoying this thread because I think the Chiefs will have Charles Brown as their top OT.

I have to think they are pleased with alberts improvement, versatility, and maleability. If they take brown, it will be for depth and they can't reach for depth, imo.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

I have to think they are pleased with alberts improvement, versatility, and maleability. If they take brown, it will be for depth and they can't reach for depth, imo.
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm not putting anything past these guys, they've already shown they really could careless about the players they inherited.

[Coogs]

Everybody gets what they want



:shake:

[The Franchise]

Oh contraire mon frere. Okung would upgrade the LT spot and the LG spot, thus allowing us to utilize that extra pick that we saved on a guard to be a center. (Pouncey with 2a would be entirely acceptable, though Tennant in round three/four would also be dandy.) At that point, we could turn our attention to the RT spot in the end of round 2, beginning of round 3. In a single draft, our entire offensive line would be substantially upgraded and allow us to utilize our fourth and fifth round picks (four in all) to pick up two safeties and two new linebackers - perhaps Rolle and Johnson as the safeties and AJ Edds and Micah Johnson. It's a win-win for everyone. I don't see how you could possibly complain about that. Look at it again:

1. Russell Okung
2. Maurkice Pouncey
2. Mike Johnson
3. Kyle Calloway
4. Koa Misi
5. Micah Johnson
5. Robert Johnson
5. Myron Rolle

Absolute fucking gold of a draft.

Holy fuck.

:shake:

[Nightfyre]

I think the biggest problem with our oline is cassel. He got put on his back more than 40 times behind the pats oline. Meanwhile, charles was the best back in the league for half a season. Hmmm.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ModSocks]

Oh contraire mon frere. Okung would upgrade the LT spot and the LG spot, thus allowing us to utilize that extra pick that we saved on a guard to be a center. (Pouncey with 2a would be entirely acceptable, though Tennant in round three/four would also be dandy.) At that point, we could turn our attention to the RT spot in the end of round 2, beginning of round 3. In a single draft, our entire offensive line would be substantially upgraded and allow us to utilize our fourth and fifth round picks (four in all) to pick up two safeties and two new linebackers - perhaps Rolle and Johnson as the safeties and AJ Edds and Micah Johnson. It's a win-win for everyone. I don't see how you could possibly complain about that. Look at it again:

1. Russell Okung
2. Maurkice Pouncey
2. Mike Johnson
3. Kyle Calloway
4. Koa Misi
5. Micah Johnson
5. Robert Johnson
5. Myron Rolle

Absolute ****ing gold of a draft.

Eeewwwww. That's not good, dude. At all. The O-line play improved sooooo much by the end of the year. Albert is not the problem. Cassel is. The lack of playmakers is also the problem.

Even when Cassel had time to throw the ball he still couldn't find a target. A better QB will make that line look ass-loads better. Just look at what JC did for the o-line.

I want Clausen. But that won't happen. So fix the D. Gimme Berry of McClain in the 1st. Another playmaker at 2a, and a Center in 2b.

[ModSocks]

I think the biggest problem with our oline is cassel. He got put on his back more than 40 times behind the pats oline. Meanwhile, charles was the best back in the league for half a season. Hmmm.
Posted via Mobile Device

This. Cassel Sucks. Hopefully Wies drafts his boy and starts him right away.

Clausen may be a rook, but at least he can hit a wide open target.....

[keg in kc]

I think the biggest problem with our oline is cassel. He got put on his back more than 40 times behind the pats oline. Meanwhile, charles was the best back in the league for half a season. Hmmm.
Posted via Mobile DeviceI would say that's debatable. He was only sacked 15 times in the last 8 games, as opposed to 27 in the first 7. And he was dropping back a bit per game more the second half of the year than the first. I'd say a lot of factors played into the first half of the year, ranging from problems with the blocking scheme, installing a new offensive system, total lack of a running game, and so on.

I would also go on to say that while the line did improve to a degree, it was not as drastic as Charles' performance would seem to indicate. Because much of the time he was making yards on his own (in a way I don't think anybody expected him to, at his size; he showed an amazing capacity for running through contact). In the passing game, even in the second half of the year, the "protection" was often a turnstile, especially in the middle. The play of the center and guards was not very good a lot of the time.

Which is separate from the fact that Cassel was making mistakes on his own late in the year, even on the occasions when the blocking was there...

[ModSocks]

I would say that's debatable. He was only sacked 15 times in the last 8 games, as opposed to 27 in the first 7. And he was dropping back a bit per game more the second half of the year than the first. I'd say a lot of factors played into the first half of the year, ranging from problems with the blocking scheme, installing a new offensive system, total lack of a running game, and so on.

I would also go on to say that while the line did improve to a degree, it was not as drastic as Charles' performance would seem to indicate. Because much of the time he was making yards on his own (in a way I don't think anybody expected him to, at his size; he showed an amazing capacity for running through contact). In the passing game, even in the second half of the year, the "protection" was often a turnstile, especially in the middle. The play of the center and guards was not very good a lot of the time.

Which is separate from the fact that Cassel was making mistakes on his own late in the year, even on the occasions when the blocking was there...

I agree. Which is why i think we need a new QB and D. The O-line got better, Charles also made them look much better than they were. But i wouldn't call the O-line the weakest spot on the team anymore. Especially with the young talent we already have.

The QB play is awful.

And we KNOW what's wrong with the D. Opposed to the O, in which "this could've been causing this to look worse, or that made this player look worse/better," blah blah blah.

With the D, we KNOW what's wrong. So lets fix that first.

[WildTurkey]

I'm still enjoying this thread because I think the Chiefs will have Charles Brown as their top OT.

I have a feeling they like Bulaga so if they did take an OT high it would be him IMO

[RustShack]

I wish Saccocrap would have just watched every Chiefs game this year instead of just looking over the stats after the season. Hes such a dumbass when it comes to the draft and just football in general.

[WildTurkey]

I wish Saccocrap would have just watched every Chiefs game this year instead of just looking over the stats after the season. Hes such a dumbass when it comes to the draft and just football in general.

I disagree with his take on the Okung pick.. but he seems to do his research and usually knows his shit so I have to give him some credit

[Saccopoo]

I wish Saccocrap would have just watched every Chiefs game this year instead of just looking over the stats after the season. Hes such a dumbass when it comes to the draft and just football in general.

And see...you got your wish even before you butchered the English language once again - as you do in every single post.

I did watch every single Chiefs game this past season. Twice. And more often than not, thrice. (Some of us actually got the NFL Ticket (like I do every single year), which allows a person to watch every game.)

[keg in kc]

I agree. Which is why i think we need a new QB and D. The O-line got better, Charles also made them look much better than they were. But i wouldn't call the O-line the weakest spot on the team anymore. Especially with the young talent we already have. I would, I think the middle of both lines are the weakest spots on the roster at the moment. They need a nose tackle, and they need a center, both in the worst way. Neither of those are positions I'd address early in the draft, however.The QB play is awful.I would say the QB play was inconsistent. Either way, no position in team sports is more dependent upon the players around him; I just can't look at it in a bubble, not when there are obvious problems with the line, not when there are obvious problems at receiver and tight end. The only reliable thing the Chiefs offense had in 2009 was Jamaal Charles, and it took them half the year to figure that out. I said this before the year started, and I said it after the year ended: it reminds me of Trent Green in 2001. Half the offense they put on the field last year were players cut from other teams, several cut during the season. I'm not going to tell anybody their opinion is wrong, but speaking for myself, I will say that I can't fairly gauge the performance of Cassel last year, because, simply put, that was the worst offensive roster I have ever seen, and I don't believe anybody could succeed under those circumstances. Not Cassel, not Manning, not Joe frikkin' Montana.

Just how I see it. And I should note that that's not a statement in support of Cassel. I have no idea if he can transform from Trent Green 2001 to Trent Green 2002-2005. I just don't know what he is.And we KNOW what's wrong with the D. Opposed to the O, in which "this could've been causing this to look worse, or that made this player look worse/better," blah blah blah.

With the D, we KNOW what's wrong. So lets fix that first.How about they do something crazy and select the best player on the board. The Chiefs have plenty of holes to fill, I don't think they need to go out of their way to limit their additions to one side of the ball. If that's Berry, great. If that's McClain, great. If they think it's Bryant or Spiller, great.

Anything but a LT who's no better than the starter they already have...

[Saccopoo]

How about they do something crazy and select the best player on the board. The Chiefs have plenty of holes to fill, I don't think they need to go out of their way to limit their additions to one side of the ball. If that's Berry, great. If that's McClain, great. If they think it's Bryant or Spiller, great.

10 to 1 that "best player on the board" is Okung.

What truly befuddles me is that it's painfully obvious to most people in the football industry who are objectively analyzing the Chiefs seem to have the general consensus that they desperately need improved play from the LT position. And then you got this board who thinks it's fine and dandy to keep the entire turnstile operation going with the current players because they have the ultimate in trust and undying loyalty for a Carl/Herm project pick at LT.

I mean, they could have picked Curry last year but there was this collective meltdown because we needed to give DJ another year to prove himself and god forbid that you would ever consider taking a linebacker with a top five pick (unless you happened to watch the recent National Championship game and heard Brent Musberger say that McClain watched game film, which then made it okay to draft a MLB with a top five pick). Now it's the we can't draft a LT or DE because we had Carl/Herm take a DT and a OG two drafts ago, and while they haven't panned out performance wise, are playing out of position and are having a negative impact on the overall performance of the Chiefs because of it, we can't possibly look at upgrading either spot because, well, we trust Carl/Herm's talent evaluation process so we are willing to let these players substandard performance slide until it becomes so painfully obvious that they are not producing on the field. Well, other than the purported performance explosion of Branden Albert in the second half of the season (even though he was thoroughly owned in the Buffalo game - and we all know how good Buffalo is), and that Dorsey got a sack against Denver, so he's got to be improving, right? (Albeit his only sack of the entire season.)

Well, I'm here to tell you - fuck 'em. They are out of position, playing in the wrong scheme and need to be traded (Dorsey) or reassigned (Albert).

In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if the Chiefs draft board top ten looked like:

1. Ndamukong Suh
2. Russ Okung
3. Joe Haden
4. Dan Williams
5. Dez Bryant
5. Rolando McClain
6. Eric Berry
7. Jared Odrick
8. Sergio Kindle
9. Jonathan Dwyer
10. Charles Brown

If they keep to their (my) board above, I think that they will be fine with their first round selection.

[OnTheWarpath15]

10 to 1 that "best player on the board" is Okung.

What truly befuddles me is that it's painfully obvious to most people in the football industry who are objectively analyzing the Chiefs seem to have the general consensus that they desperately need improved play from the LT position. And then you got this board who thinks it's fine and dandy to keep the entire turnstile operation going with the current players because they have the ultimate in trust and undying loyalty for a Carl/Herm project pick at LT.

I mean, they could have picked Curry last year but there was this collective meltdown because we needed to give DJ another year to prove himself and god forbid that you would ever consider taking a linebacker with a top five pick (unless you happened to watch the recent National Championship game and heard Brent Musberger say that McClain watched game film, which then made it okay to draft a MLB with a top five pick). Now it's the we can't draft a LT or DE because we had Carl/Herm take a DT and a OG two drafts ago, and while they haven't panned out performance wise, are playing out of position and are having a negative impact on the overall performance of the Chiefs because of it, we can't possibly look at upgrading either spot because, well, we trust Carl/Herm's talent evaluation process so we are willing to let these players substandard performance slide until it becomes so painfully obvious that they are not producing on the field. Well, other than the purported performance explosion of Branden Albert in the second half of the season (even though he was thoroughly owned in the Buffalo game - and we all know how good Buffalo is), and that Dorsey got a sack against Denver, so he's got to be improving, right? (Albeit his only sack of the entire season.)

Well, I'm here to tell you - fuck 'em. They are out of position, playing in the wrong scheme and need to be traded (Dorsey) or reassigned (Albert).

In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if the Chiefs draft board top ten looked like:

1. Ndamukong Suh
2. Russ Okung
3. Joe Haden
4. Dan Williams
5. Dez Bryant
5. Rolando McClain
6. Eric Berry
7. Jared Odrick
8. Sergio Kindle
9. Jonathan Dwyer
10. Charles Brown

If they keep to their (my) board above, I think that they will be fine with their first round selection.

If their board even remotely resembles that, Clark should fire everyone from Pioli to the fucking parking attendants.

Then again, it would explain why this organization hasn't won a playoff game in almost two decades.

[Chiefnj2]

In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if the Chiefs draft board top ten looked like:

1. Ndamukong Suh
2. Russ Okung
3. Joe Haden
4. Dan Williams
5. Dez Bryant
5. Rolando McClain
6. Eric Berry
7. Jared Odrick
8. Sergio Kindle
9. Jonathan Dwyer
10. Charles Brown

If they keep to their (my) board above, I think that they will be fine with their first round selection.

Why would Suh be on their board but not McCoy? Odrick at #7??

[keg in kc]

10 to 1 that "best player on the board" is Okung.

What truly befuddles me is that it's painfully obvious to most people in the football industry who are objectively analyzing the Chiefs seem to have the general consensus that they desperately need improved play from the LT position. And then you got this board who thinks it's fine and dandy to keep the entire turnstile operation going with the current players because they have the ultimate in trust and undying loyalty for a Carl/Herm project pick at LT. Anybody who's at all familiar with the team knows that Albert was asked to lose a significant amount of weight, was coached with a focus on technique instead of relying on strength and weight, was put into a new blocking scheme in a new offensive system that was implemented the week before the season started (as a 2nd year pro), and eventually made major strides over the second half of the season.

Unfortunately most people in the football industry who are "objectively analyzing the Chiefs" don't have any clue about any of that.

[Saccopoo]

Why would Suh be on their board but not McCoy? Odrick at #7??

Because Suh and Odrick are prototype five tech players where McCoy is a pure three technique guy. (I wouldn't be surprised if a team like the Lions have McCoy rated over Suh on their board.)

If Odrick is sitting there when the Chiefs pick in the second round, I can pretty much guarantee you that they would pick him. I don't think he'll be there though. I wouldn't put it past McDaniels/Xander to pick him with Denvers first round selection.

[Saccopoo]

Anybody who's at all familiar with the team knows that Albert was asked to lose a significant amount of weight, was coached with a focus on technique instead of relying on strength and weight, was put into a new blocking scheme in a new offensive system that was implemented the week before the season started (as a 2nd year pro), and eventually made major strides over the second half of the season.

Unfortunately most people in the football industry who are "objectively analyzing the Chiefs" don't have any clue about any of that.

I'm sure they do and they are able to understand that Albert is in the wrong system while playing at LT. He's not a zone blocking type of player (at least on the edge), and he doesn't have, or hasn't shown to this point, the reaction time to be effective in that type of scheme. I think he's got enough athleticism at his size to be effective in the phonebooth in Haley's scheme, but not on the edge.

Maybe it's the fear of irony that prevents people from seeing this - that we've given the Raiders so much shit for moving Gallery over, that people around here have called Leonard Davis a bust because he ended up being a Pro Bowl guard instead of a tackle.

But I'll tell you what - I'd rather have an All-Pro guard than a turnstile LT.

[Brock]

10 to 1 that "best player on the board" is Okung.

What truly befuddles me is that it's painfully obvious to most people in the football industry who are objectively analyzing the Chiefs seem to have the general consensus that they desperately need improved play from the LT position.

They're not objectively analyzing, they're cursorily analyzing. They see that Matt Cassel has been sacked a lot and think that means the Chiefs need better protection on the blindside, when it should be pretty obvious that Matt Cassel takes a lot of sacks no matter how good the protection is. A deeper look at the team reveals that the middle of the defense is wet toilet paper and is the team's biggest problem by far.

[philfree]

FWIW

OTs Okung, Williams have work to do

Thursday, January 21, 2010 | Print Entry


Posted by Scouts Inc.

Offensive tackle, particularly left tackles, are among the most highly-valued prospects in the NFL draft, and now that the Senior Bowl has come and gone without any of our top-ranked tackles taking part it's time to take stock of where they stand.



[+] Enlarge
Scott Boehm/Getty Images

Russell Okung's decision to skip the Senior Bowl could be costly.
We've had some shuffling in our rankings, and Russell Okung (Oklahoma State) and Trent Williams (Oklahoma) opting out of the Senior Bowl was a missed opportunity for the two tackles on our board who are sliding a bit. None of the tackles in attendance in Mobile played well enough to surpass Okung or Williams but good showings there certainly would have firmed up their standing.



Part of the reason their stock has taken a hit is the emergence of juniors Anthony Davis (Rutgers) and Bryan Bulaga, but it's questions raised during our film study that have played the biggest role in Okung and Williams slipping down the board a bit.



Okung gets good hand placement and shows sound footwork once he's engaged with defenders, so he rarely gets beaten once he gets his hands on the defender in either the running game or the passing game. There's also a lot to like about his tenacity and he can be seen on film pancaking defensive ends and linebackers.



However, there is reason to believe Okung won't be as effective in pass protection in the NFL. First, he is not as strong at the top of his pass set as teams would like because at 6-foot-8 he struggles to sink his hips. More importantly, Okung does not appear to have elite foot speed so his footwork will always have to be sound. He also lacks the agility and flexibility Davis has shown.



Holding up against elite NFL edge rushers is an even bigger concern for Williams, who moved from right to left tackle prior to the 2009 season and never looked truly comfortable there. He had problems preventing speed rushers from turning the corner because he is a split second slow getting out of his stance and he doesn't always kick out wide enough to force pass rusher to go through him rather than right around him.



We still think Williams has what to takes to start at right tackle in the NFL but he will have to be protected at times within blocking schemes because he won't always match up well. He is not a franchise left tackle by any means, while Bulaga has shown the quickness in his sets to hold his own on the left side in the NFL.



Davis and Bulaga are virtual first-round locks thanks to their overall skill sets, but a potential fall from the top 10 to the later portion of the first round could cost Okung a whole lot of money. As for Williams, he could still come off the board in the first round because teams are so intent on finding quality tackles, but we see him as an early-second rounder at this point.


Also keep an eye on Maryland's Bruce Campbell and USC's Charles Brown, both of whom are expected to show well at the combine and in individual workouts and could challenge Williams for the No. 4 spot among offensive tackles.
---------------


PhilFree:arrow:

[keg in kc]

I'm sure they do and they are able to understand that Albert is in the wrong system while playing at LT. He's not a zone blocking type of player (at least on the edge), and he doesn't have, or hasn't shown to this point, the reaction time to be effective in that type of scheme. I think he's got enough athleticism at his size to be effective in the phonebooth in Haley's scheme, but not on the edge.

Maybe it's the fear of irony that prevents people from seeing this - that we've given the Raiders so much shit for moving Gallery over, that people around here have called Leonard Davis a bust because he ended up being a Pro Bowl guard instead of a tackle.

But I'll tell you what - I'd rather have an All-Pro guard than a turnstile LT.Unfortunately for your argument, he was not a "turnstile LT", not for most of the second half of the year.

[Saccopoo]

They're not objectively analyzing, they're cursorily analyzing. They see that Matt Cassel has been sacked a lot and think that means the Chiefs need better protection on the blindside, when it should be pretty obvious that Matt Cassel takes a lot of sacks no matter how good the protection is.

That's completely hypothetical as Cassel didn't have "good protection" at any point during the 2009 season. Defensive players were in the backfield to take the handoff, coming from every single gap/point on the offensive line - including left tackle. It was just as bad at every position on the line. And no, they did not get "better" in the second half of the season. We just decided to have a running back run the ball with a bit more elusiveness and speed than a previous running back. That helped a ton. But the offensive line didn't have some miraculous epiphany. It was Charles. The line still sucked dog balls.

A deeper look at the team reveals that the middle of the defense is wet toilet paper and is the team's biggest problem by far.

I'm not saying that the middle of the defense isn't dog shit. It is. It was last year too. But let's have a fucking conniption about drafting Curry last year because we all knew DJ was a passionate workhorse that gave 100% every game so it was a waste to burn a pick on a linebacker then.

We are going to be doing the same thing next year when we are going to desperately need a OT, and the only one of merit is going to be Joe Barksdale.

[Brock]

That's completely hypothetical as Cassel didn't have "good protection" at any point during the 2009 season.

Untrue, and invalidates anything after.

[Nightfyre]

Dj wasn't why we had conniptions about curry. Curry projected way better to the 43. But please, continue to ignore facts in your "objective" analysis (which equates to an oline fetish if you ask me)
Posted via Mobile Device

[Saccopoo]

Dj wasn't why we had conniptions about curry. Curry projected way better to the 43. But please, continue to ignore facts in your "objective" analysis (which equates to an oline fetish if you ask me)
Posted via Mobile Device

Facts? Curry was a strong side linebacker in college (same as DJ) that had the size, speed and coverage skills to effectively transition to the middle in a 3-4 scheme. (Hell, he was probably overqualified to play inside in a 3-4.) The guy shed blocks amazingly well and was able to play sideline to sideline. He would have been a very good pick for the Chiefs in hindsight considering how ineffectual Mays has been, how inconsistent Johnson has been or how old Vrabel looked on the field at times from the LOLB spot.

However, he is not a edge rush backer (ROLB) and that's where people around here complained that you never take a MLB (especially a 3-4) or a SSOLB with a top ten pick unless they are the second coming of a modernized version of Dick Butkus or Derrick Brooks.

Curry is/would have been the same pick as McClain. (Although Curry is faster.)

[Chiefnj2]

Facts? Curry was a strong side linebacker in college (same as DJ) that had the size, speed and coverage skills to effectively transition to the middle in a 3-4 scheme. (Hell, he was probably overqualified to play inside in a 3-4.) The guy shed blocks amazingly well and was able to play sideline to sideline. He would have been a very good pick for the Chiefs in hindsight considering how ineffectual Mays has been, how inconsistent Johnson has been or how old Vrabel looked on the field at times from the LOLB spot.

However, he is not a edge rush backer (ROLB) and that's where people around here complained that you never take a MLB (especially a 3-4) or a SSOLB with a top ten pick unless they are the second coming of a modernized version of Dick Butkus or Derrick Brooks.

Curry is/would have been the same pick as McClain. (Although Curry is faster.)

Surprisingly, I agree with about everything you just said.

[Brock]

Facts? Curry was a strong side linebacker in college (same as DJ) that had the size, speed and coverage skills to effectively transition to the middle in a 3-4 scheme. (Hell, he was probably overqualified to play inside in a 3-4.) The guy shed blocks amazingly well and was able to play sideline to sideline. He would have been a very good pick for the Chiefs in hindsight considering how ineffectual Mays has been, how inconsistent Johnson has been or how old Vrabel looked on the field at times from the LOLB spot.

However, he is not a edge rush backer (ROLB) and that's where people around here complained that you never take a MLB (especially a 3-4) or a SSOLB with a top ten pick unless they are the second coming of a modernized version of Dick Butkus or Derrick Brooks.

Curry is/would have been the same pick as McClain. (Although Curry is faster.)

You're rewriting history. What I remember reading is that you don't take a non pass-rushing linebacker in the top 3, which has pretty much been the case in the NFL draft. I remember defending taking a linebacker in the TOP 10. I wouldn't take McClain if the Chiefs were at 3 either.

[Nightfyre]

Facts? Curry was a strong side linebacker in college (same as DJ) that had the size, speed and coverage skills to effectively transition to the middle in a 3-4 scheme. (Hell, he was probably overqualified to play inside in a 3-4.) The guy shed blocks amazingly well and was able to play sideline to sideline. He would have been a very good pick for the Chiefs in hindsight considering how ineffectual Mays has been, how inconsistent Johnson has been or how old Vrabel looked on the field at times from the LOLB spot.

However, he is not a edge rush backer (ROLB) and that's where people around here complained that you never take a MLB (especially a 3-4) or a SSOLB with a top ten pick unless they are the second coming of a modernized version of Dick Butkus or Derrick Brooks.

Curry is/would have been the same pick as McClain. (Although Curry is faster.)

Curry didn't have strong lateral agility. He had good straight line speed and was disruptive up the middle, but he lacked fluidity in his hips. I dunno where you are getting your stuff.
Posted via Mobile Device

[RustShack]

Is it just me, or is it mildly funny that Saccapoo claims he watches football games, yet he sees something completely different than everyone else?

As for Curry, Jesus Christ shut the fuck up. McClain is a way better Mike prospect than Curry was. Sure hes not as fast, but that doesn't matter because he does everything else so much better. There is a lot more to football than a 40 time.

[Saccopoo]

Is it just me, or is it mildly funny that Saccapoo claims he watches football games, yet he sees something completely different than everyone else?

As for Curry, Jesus Christ shut the **** up. McClain is a way better Mike prospect than Curry was. Sure hes not as fast, but that doesn't matter because he does everything else so much better. There is a lot more to football than a 40 time.

Man, if there was anyone who needed a dose of Prozac, it's you.

[Saccopoo]

Curry didn't have strong lateral agility. He had good straight line speed and was disruptive up the middle, but he lacked fluidity in his hips. I dunno where you are getting your stuff.
Posted via Mobile Device

Holy shit. Seriously? You are breaking it down to the minutia of lacking fluidity in his hips? And this is in comparison to McClain? And since he had the best time out of all linebackers in the combine in not only the 40 yard dash, but also the 3 cone drill, the 20 yard shuttle, the 60 yard shuttle, the vertical jump, the broad jump as well as the top reps in the bench press, I'd say that if there was a lacking of fluidity in his hips, he'd have not posted such good times in the cone and shuttles.

But as someone stated, it's history.