Disturbing video that I have to comment on

[Nzoner]

Sorry for being so morbid today(2nd thread of violence) but I just came across this video on another site and thought it might make for some good discussion as I'm sure if you watch it your emotions will be triggered(no pun intended).

Possibly some of you have seen this or if it's been posted before I apologize.

Before I post the video my take is two-fold and split in that I think law enforcement officers are grossly underpaid and yet in this paticular video I was thinking what a dumbass cop,you've given fair warning,why not just shoot and wound this crazy bastard before he does something crazier.

Below the video is the story,again,fair warning,while not graphic in nature the video is quite disturbing.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GX5kwVc9IOk&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GX5kwVc9IOk&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Deputy Kyle Dinkheller, Laurens County, GA, was minutes from being off duty when he encountered a speeding pickup truck going 98 mph. The deputy was an ICE (Interstate Criminal Enforcement) officer that dealt with traffic infractions, speeding and the occasional drug bust. This was a low risk or unknown risk stop for speeding. He radioed in the speeding infraction, made a U-turn in the median and pursued the vehicle. The driver, Andrew Brannan, stopped his vehicle, exited and started a crazy, dancing jig in the middle of the road while swearing at the officer and shouting Im a god-damned Vietnam vet. At first, he ignored Dinkhellers commands to step towards the deputy, which always began with `Sir. When he finally complied, he attacked the deputy and a scuffle ensued. The deputy implemented the use of his asp and ordered Brannan to `get back. This procedure was repeated, but after what appeared to be a second scuffle, the suspect returned to his vehicle and retrieved a M-I Carbine from under the seat. The first shots were fired nearly 50 seconds after Brannan returned to his vehicle despite the deputys commands. Brannan ignored the repeated commands to put the gun down and Deputy Dinkheller apparently fired the first shot. Brannan, a Vietnam veteran, advanced firing on the deputy. Dinkheller returned fire, but succeeded only in breaking a window in the drivers side of the pickup and wounding Brannan in the stomach. Using `suppressive fire, Brannan systematically, methodically shot Dinkheller in the arms, legs, exposed areas that would not be covered had Dinkheller been wearing a bulletproof vest, slowly executing him. Reloading his weapon Brannan continued firing with the final death shot to Dinkhellers right eye. "The entire incident was videotaped by a camera in Deputy Dinkheller's patrol car. On January 28, 2000, the suspect was found guilty of murder and was sentenced to death two days later."

[Jilly]

Why would this be posted on YouTube? Seems like something that shouldn't be glorified in that way.

FYI, that's not the only thing I'm disturbed by, but that's just something I'm thinking.

What hurts the most is how ANYONE can take a human life and not feel any remorse, any hesitation, and simply drive away.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

unreal. I hope that guy is burning in hell.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

this is why the Tazer was invented. Today, that cop would have just tazered the suspect and likely still be alive.

[MOhillbilly]

People die when you slice the PIE.

[The Franchise]

Dude....I couldn't make it as a cop. The first time someone fires a gun at me....it's over. I'm ending his life.

[MOhillbilly]

Dude....I couldn't make it as a cop. The first time someone fires a gun at me....it's over. I'm ending his life.


Fires a gun? Youre as good as dead. Id of shot his ass the second i though he was gonna produce a weapon. Maybe you lose your job but atleast you go home.

[Radar Chief]

Why would this be posted on YouTube? Seems like something that shouldn't be glorified in that way.

FYI, that's not the only thing I'm disturbed by, but that's just something I'm thinking.

What hurts the most is how ANYONE can take a human life and not feel any remorse, any hesitation, and simply drive away.

I know the story, this is an old video that has been on Cops or Scariest Police Chases or some show like that. That’s probably how it got on YouTube, copied from the show it was on.

[The Franchise]

Fires a gun? Youre as good as dead. Id of shot his ass the second i though he was gonna produce a weapon. Maybe you lose your job but atleast you go home.

True.

[Jilly]

I know the story, this is an old video that has been on Cops or Scariest Police Chases or some show like that. That’s probably how it got on YouTube, copied from the show it was on.

I just think it's insulting to the police officer who died to have people watching his death over and over again.

[Radar Chief]

this is why the Tazer was invented. Today, that cop would have just tazered the suspect and likely still be alive.

And facing charges for police brutality.

[Radar Chief]

Fires a gun? Youre as good as dead. Id of shot his ass the second i though he was gonna produce a weapon. Maybe you lose your job but atleast you go home.

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

I just think it's insulting to the police officer who died to have people watching his death over and over again.

I can see both sides. i think it is important that the average citizen see this type of stuff to be able to understand WHY cops ask you to do what they do. WHY cops sometimes shoot before being shot at.

People are very quick to judge actions sometimes based on the end result. If more people know how crazy things can get, I think there would be less unfair judgement.

[Nzoner]

I just think it's insulting to the police officer who died to have people watching his death over and over again.

According to the poster on the other site this video is being used on a gun forum by an owner of a firearm training facility to show that cops are in need of more training.

[Jilly]

I can see both sides. i think it is important that the average citizen see this type of stuff to be able to understand WHY cops ask you to do what they do. WHY cops sometimes shoot before being shot at.

People are very quick to judge actions sometimes based on the end result. If more people know how crazy things can get, I think there would be less unfair judgement.

At the same time, you know there are some equally crazy people who think it's funny. Personally, I just think death is sacred and isn't something that should be relived for the sake of entertainment or education. Again, that's just my opinion.

[MOhillbilly]

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

this is why i couldnt be a cop even though id be awesome at it.;)

[Nzoner]

At the same time, you know there are some equally crazy people who think it's funny. Personally, I just think death is sacred and isn't something that should be relived for the sake of entertainment or education. Again, that's just my opinion.

I posted it for discussion and gave ample warning to how disturbing it is.

[CosmicPal]

That's just heartbreaking. My thoughts go out to the family of the officer.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

At the same time, you know there are some equally crazy people who think it's funny. Personally, I just think death is sacred and isn't something that should be relived for the sake of entertainment or education. Again, that's just my opinion.

true, but while it is shocking, it at least does not show his actual death or remains. I do find the clips online of actual death and dead people repulsive.

[ModSocks]

WTF man. Disturbing doesn't describe this video.

anyhow...yeah, if he pulled a gun after doing his little cooky dance, I would've began firing immediatly.

[Inspector]

Cops need to have really badass guns to use. Seems the perp probably had more firepower.

Really sad.

[MOhillbilly]

WTF man. Disturbing doesn't describe this video.

anyhow...yeah, if he pulled a gun after doing his little cooky dance, I would've began firing immediatly.

again, then youd more than likely be dead.

The drop is everything next to a kill shot.;)

[Jilly]

I posted it for discussion and gave ample warning to how disturbing it is.

It's not a criticism. It was a comment.

[Radar Chief]

I just think it's insulting to the police officer who died to have people watching his death over and over again.

He’s dead. He doesn’t care.
I can understand that the family would be upset, having to live through the moment over and over, but hopefully some good can come from it like what Nzoner posted below.

According to the poster on the other site this video is being used on a gun forum by an owner of a firearm training facility to show that cops are in need of more training.

[MOhillbilly]

Cops need to have really badass guns to use. Seems the perp probably had more firepower.

Really sad.

looked like an sks, i kept waiting for him to pop the trunk and bust out the ar.

[Goldmember]

For all of you cop haters, I'd like to see you be this patient. Cops don't get paid enough to deal with all the crazy assholes in the world.

[Nzoner]

It's not a criticism. It was a comment.

Didn't take it as criticism,just stating why I posted it and so far the discussion has been good.

[Bane]

Dude....I couldn't make it as a cop. The first time someone fires a gun at me....it's over. I'm ending his life.

Exactly.

[Jilly]

He’s dead. He doesn’t care.
I can understand that the family would be upset, having to live through the moment over and over, but hopefully some good can come from it like what Nzoner posted below.

I think it's an insult to his honor, let me specify. Perhaps there were things he could have done differently, perhaps he did everything perfectly. Either way, he didn't die on some grand mission, he died trying to give someone a speeding ticket.

If you were to die in that way and had a choice for the video to be used over and over again as training, etc even though you knew your family would be left to endure it, would you?

[mikeyis4dcats.]

looked like an sks, i kept waiting for him to pop the trunk and bust out the ar.

It's an M1 carbine. The insane thing is the cop is watching him load it when he's standing at the driver's door in the beginning.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Fires a gun? Youre as good as dead. Id of shot his ass the second i though he was gonna produce a weapon. Maybe you lose your job but atleast you go home.Yup. That asshole should have been shot in the legs at least when he went for the gun. Torture would certainly be justified for this cocksucker.

[CosmicPal]

If you were to die in that way and had a choice for the video to be used over and over again as training, etc even though you knew your family would be left to endure it, would you?

If it's used for the sole purpose of training- Yes! However, this isn't solely used for training. It's on YouTube because some asshat believes the public ought to view it for its entertainment value. If it was used solely for the purpose of training, we'd never see it.

[Jilly]

It's an M1 carbine. The insane thing is the cop is watching him load it when he's standing at the driver's door in the beginning.

was the cop just not armed? Like I don't get that at least from what I was observing that he even fired a shot? Did he?

[mikeyis4dcats.]

I think it's an insult to his honor, let me specify. Perhaps there were things he could have done differently, perhaps he did everything perfectly. Either way, he didn't die on some grand mission, he died trying to give someone a speeding ticket.

If you were to die in that way and had a choice for the video to be used over and over again as training, etc even though you knew your family would be left to endure it, would you?


I would. Whether it's a military mission, a cop doing his job, or an average worker, if something can be learned and taught from my death to prevent others, by all means.

[Pablo]

If you were to die in that way and had a choice for the video to be used over and over again as training, etc even though you knew your family would be left to endure it, would you?Yes. This video show cops need to be far less hesitant when dealing with crazy, non compliant assholes. If this video teaches one cop to be quicker thinking and acting and saves their own life or some innocent bystander, then good.

There's nothing wrong with showing this video. What's been done is done; and I wouldn't give two shits who saw it after I was gone. I'm sure my family would be sensible enough to understand why the video was being viewed and for what purposes it was being used and hopefully wouldn't have an issue either.

[Jilly]

If it's used for the sole purpose of training- Yes! However, this isn't solely used for training. It's on YouTube because some asshat believes the public ought to view it for its entertainment value. If it was used solely for the purpose of training, we'd never see it.

this may seem unrelated, but it's slightly related and I'm curious....are you an organ donor?

[Radar Chief]

I think it's an insult to his honor, let me specify. Perhaps there were things he could have done differently, perhaps he did everything perfectly. Either way, he didn't die on some grand mission, he died trying to give someone a speeding ticket.

If you were to die in that way and had a choice for the video to be used over and over again as training, etc even though you knew your family would be left to endure it, would you?

If my death was instrumental is saving other lives, yes. That is the “grandest mission” of all. And I would hope my family could find honor in that.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

was the cop just not armed? Like I don't get that at least from what I was observing that he even fired a shot? Did he?

He is, but he has (most likely in 1998) a 6 shot .38 cal revolver, or perhaps a semi-automatic pistol. But he is very much out-gunned by the semi-auto rifle in stopping power and number of shots.

he probably did get shots off, but he was driven to cover and it would be pretty difficult for someone to get off accurate shots on a suspect with a semi-auto rifle who has you pinned down.

[Goldmember]

was the cop just not armed? Like I don't get that at least from what I was observing that he even fired a shot? Did he?

You guys need to read the story. The cop had a hand gun and fired the first shot, 50 SECONDS AFTER THE GUY RETURNED TO HIS CAR! I'd have capped him after he started reaching around in the car, if not sooner.

[Jilly]

ftr, when I die, don't record it even if you guys could use it, even if I'm naked and someone wants to use it as art. BUT, if someone does record it, let it be henceforth known that I DO NOT want people watching me die over and over again. My guess is though, whatever way I die will probably not need to be studied to further the human race in any way.

[CosmicPal]

this may seem unrelated, but it's slightly related and I'm curious....are you an organ donor?

I'm curious as to how you think it's slightly related.

[Jilly]

You guys need to read the story. The cop had a hand gun and fired the first shot, 50 SECONDS AFTER THE GUY RETURNED TO HIS CAR! I'd have capped him after he started reaching around in the car, if not sooner.

sorry, I generally only read picture books

[MOhillbilly]

Yup. That asshole should have been shot in the legs at least when he went for the gun. Torture would certainly be justified for this one who sucks the penis.

like i told my old lady, 'weapons are made for killin, not wounding'.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

ftr, when I die, don't record it even if you guys could use it, even if I'm naked and someone wants to use it as art. BUT, if someone does record it, let it be henceforth known that I DO NOT want people watching me die over and over again. My guess is though, whatever way I die will probably not need to be studied to further the human race in any way.

if you die eating sushi, it could be interesting. Probably have to edit the last bit out though.

[Bane]

WTF man. Disturbing doesn't describe this video.

anyhow...yeah, if he pulled a gun after doing his little cooky dance, I would've began firing immediatly.

Man the whole thing's terrible.Especially the part where you can hear the poor guy screaming as he's beng shot!:cuss:

[Jilly]

I'm curious as to how you think it's slightly related.

if it's okay to use someone's death for others to learn and you're okay with people watching your death so others can learn....then it seems reasonable you would also be ok with your dead body to be used so others can learn. It seems there's a correlation there at least to me, it does.

[MOhillbilly]

He is, but he has (most likely in 1998) a 6 shot .38 cal revolver, or perhaps a semi-automatic pistol. But he is very much out-gunned by the semi-auto rifle in stopping power and number of shots.

he probably did get shots off, but he was driven to cover and it would be pretty difficult for someone to get off accurate shots on a suspect with a semi-auto rifle who has you pinned down.

shoots the drivers glass out just before crazy guy slices pie.

[Pablo]

if it's okay to use someone's death for others to learn and you're okay with people watching your death so others can learn....then it seems reasonable you would also be ok with your dead body to be used so others can learn. It seems there's a correlation there at least to me, it does.I'm an organ donor. I don't give a shit what happens to me when I'm dead. Because....I'm dead.

[Radar Chief]

like i told my old lady, 'weapons are made for killin, not wounding'.

Yup. You put a jacketed hollow point center mass or run away.
The fact that the purp took one in the gut and kept coming indicates to me the cop was using a smaller caliber, probably a 9mm so he could carry more ammo. One .45 ACP jacketed hollow point in the gut and that dude sits down and doesn’t want anymore.

[CosmicPal]

if it's okay to use someone's death for others to learn and you're okay with people watching your death so others can learn....then it seems reasonable you would also be ok with your dead body to be used so others can learn. It seems there's a correlation there at least to me, it does.

There's no correlation. As I stated earlier, this video should ONLY be available to law enforcement personnel for the sole purpose of training. The public learns absolutely nothing from this other than the fact that it's a dangerous job to be a police officer. Something the majority of the public already knew. This video you and everyone else is commenting on was posted on YouTube for entertainment and entertainment alone. 'Cause unfortunately, there's still a small percentage of ****tards on this planet that get their jizzles up over something like this.

As for being a donor, you do so because you want to be able to be able to extend the life of another being because there's not enough donors out there in this world. Being a donor doesn't mean, "Geuss what, videotape my naked dead body and post it on YouTube for the entertainment of others."

[Radar Chief]

if it's okay to use someone's death for others to learn and you're okay with people watching your death so others can learn....then it seems reasonable you would also be ok with your dead body to be used so others can learn. It seems there's a correlation there at least to me, it does.

OK, since it matters to you, yes I am an organ donor.

[Jilly]

There's no correlation. As I stated earlier, this video should ONLY be available to law enforcement personnel for the sole purpose of training. The public learns absolutely nothing from this other than the fact that it's a dangerous job to be a police officer. Something the majority of the public already knew. This video you and everyone else is commenting on was posted on YouTube for entertainment and entertainment alone. 'Cause unfortunately, there's still a small percentage of ****tards on this planet that get their jizzles up over something like this.

As for being a donor, you do so because you want to be able to be able to extend the life of another being because there's not enough donors out there in this world. Being a donor doesn't mean, "Geuss what, videotape my naked dead body and post it on YouTube for the entertainment of others."

my question wasn't about posting it on youtube, it was about using it for education, you tube not an option.

[Bugeater]

On January 28, 2000, the suspect was found guilty of murder and was sentenced to death two days later.
I wonder how many more years the pile of shit got to live before his appeals ran out. Hell it wouldn't surprise me if he was still alive.

[Chiefnj2]

IMO, the officer would have been justified tazing him from 40 secs to 1:10 and shooting him any point from then on.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

http://mentalhopenews.blogspot.com/2008/07/dinkheller-case-before-supreme-court.html

[Cannibal]

You can hear his final gasps for air. That was horrible.

[Jilly]

OK, since it matters to you, yes I am an organ donor.

It doesn't matter to me, I was curious if those of you who felt it was okay to use the video for education purposes also felt it was okay to use your own body for education purposes. I really wasn't meaning for it to be an argument.

I was curious if

a. Yes, use the video for education = yes, I would also use my dead body for education

[mikeyis4dcats.]

still appealing as of May 2009.

http://dockets.justia.com/browse/state-georgia/noscat-6/nos-535/

[CosmicPal]

IMO, the officer would have been justified tazing him from 40 secs to 1:10 and shooting him any point from then on.

He should have tazed him the moment he was dancing. A man died who didn't deserved to die and another man lives who doesn't deserve to live. Think about this the next time a video is posted about a cop using a tazer too early on someone. There's loads of videos out there where cops are chastised for tazing or using effective force too soon.

[ModSocks]

Man the whole thing's terrible.Especially the part where you can hear the poor guy screaming as he's beng shot!:cuss:

Yeah, that part was just fucked....that asshole deserves to fry.

[Nzoner]

http://mentalhopenews.blogspot.com/2008/07/dinkheller-case-before-supreme-court.html


Figures,taxpayers have been supporting this worthless POS ever since the murder.

[MOhillbilly]

Yeah, that part was just ****ed....that asshole deserves to fry.

thats the sound of fear and frustration. Bone chilling.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

He should have tazed him the moment he was dancing. A man died who didn't deserved to die and another man lives who doesn't deserve to live. Think about this the next time a video is posted about a cop using a tazer too early on someone. There's loads of videos out there where cops are chastised for tazing or using effective force too soon.

this incident occured before Tazers were in wide use by law enforcement.

[Radar Chief]

still appealing as of May 2009.

http://dockets.justia.com/browse/state-georgia/noscat-6/nos-535/

:shake: With evidence like this there shouldn’t be any appeals.

[MOhillbilly]

Figures,taxpayers have been supporting this worthless POS ever since the murder.

unreal. wtf is left to appeal?

[Bugeater]

He should have tazed him the moment he was dancing. A man died who didn't deserved to die and another man lives who doesn't deserve to live. Think about this the next time a video is posted about a cop using a tazer too early on someone. There's loads of videos out there where cops are chastised for tazing or using effective force too soon.
I'm not sure tazers even existed in 1998.

[mlyonsd]

Thanks for all the comments....this is one I'm going to skip watching.

[Jilly]

if you die eating sushi, it could be interesting. Probably have to edit the last bit out though.

mmmm....crossthread humor. And I might have to let that be recorded so that I could say I did it and be a legend on CP.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

unreal. wtf is left to appeal?

his arguments have included ineffective counsel, mental health issues, and even "the impact his mother would feel from his execution"

[mikeyis4dcats.]

mmmm....crossthread humor. And I might have to let that be recorded so that I could say I did it and be a legend on CP.

I have a HiDef camcorder. 7:00 work for you?

[MOhillbilly]

I bring this up and it seems noone remembers Dave Tate....how did he not get the death penalty?

[Jilly]

I have a HiDef camcorder. 7:00 work for you?

if I didn't have to drive to freaking Nebraska to get it done....

[Bugeater]

his arguments have included ineffective counsel, mental health issues, and even "the impact his mother would feel from his execution"
Fine, execute her too for spawning the POS.

[mikeyis4dcats.]

if I didn't have to drive to freaking Nebraska to get it done....

oh, I'm in Kansas. :)

[Goldmember]

still appealing as of May 2009.

http://dockets.justia.com/browse/state-georgia/noscat-6/nos-535/

If that was my relative he killed, I'd pay the most disease infected guys in prison to gang rape him every day.

[CosmicPal]

Fine, execute her too for spawning the POS.

ROFL

[Nzoner]

unreal. wtf is left to appeal?

I'm sure it's the government's fault for putting a gun in his hands in the first place.

[Donger]

The un-born (at the time of the incident) son this officer never knew is now 12 years old.

[Bugeater]

I'm sure it's the government's fault for putting a gun in his hands in the first place.
No problem, execute all of them as well.

[MOhillbilly]

seems like alot of the videos of firefights show the cops using poor tactics.

[The Franchise]

still appealing as of May 2009.

http://dockets.justia.com/browse/state-georgia/noscat-6/nos-535/

Dinkheller, 23, was married with one child and another on the way.


:shake:

This piece of shit should have been killed the day that they caught him.

[CosmicPal]

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/off-topic/121861-murder-georgia-deputy.html

LESSONS LEARNED

· Gain control of the situation
· Call your partner and/or call for backup
· Maintain control of the situation
· Make verbal commands clear to the subject
· Go one level higher than your attacker
· If subject lays hands on you, take him/her down
· Use whatever tools are necessary
· Never let subject return to his/her vehicle
· Keep the subject away from the vehicle and, if necessary, go to the vehicle yourself
· Determine when lethal force is justified; then, use it if called for
· Go by the book and lean on training as safeguards against liability issues
· Develop a scenario, a plan for any given situation.
· Be mentally and physically prepared to be a professional
· The issue of liability is not worth your life

[aturnis]

At the same time, you know there are some equally crazy people who think it's funny. Personally, I just think death is sacred and isn't something that should be relived for the sake of entertainment or education. Again, that's just my opinion.

If I died in such a manner, I would hope people would be smart enough to use the video for education. It might help save lives. Otherwise, I would have died for no reason at all. I think you are letting your god goggles cloud your vision. I do agree with you though on the entertainment point though. I'd assume his family would have some say in what happens with this tape. Who knows.

[Demonpenz]

alot of the training videos used in the police force are pulled up through you tube, easier and cheaper to plug in through HDMI than to carry a tape and vhs around

[Chief Henry]

That is dam brutal. It pisses me off.

[Chief Henry]

unreal. wtf is left to appeal?

Exactly...the lawyers are making good jack over this POS dirtbag.
I hope his lawyer has f'n nightmares :grr:

[JD10367]

http://mentalhopenews.blogspot.com/2008/07/dinkheller-case-before-supreme-court.html

This f**ker's been getting 3 Hots and a Cot on my tax dime for the past decade?

Pretty much sums up what's wrong with the American judicial system.

[Jenson71]

That really fucking pisses me off. Fuck that miserable piece of shit. I'm afraid I would love to see that fucker die a painful death.

[Jenson71]

Soon after 1:30, it sounds like he's yelling "Put the gun down." That is when the cop should have been shooting to exterminate that miserable fucks life.

[Jenson71]

I don't know why I watched this damn thing.

[Jenson71]

Exactly...the lawyers are making good jack over this POS dirtbag.
I hope his lawyer has f'n nightmares :grr:

His lawyer probably makes $50,000 and hates the guy. I don't see why you fault the lawyer whose duty is to defend his client with zeal. Law and due process aren't new developments in America that came with socialism. So fuck off.

[DaFace]

I think I'll take a pass on this one. The description is enough for me.

[Radar Chief]

I think I'll take a pass on this one. The description is enough for me.

Thanks for all the comments....this is one I'm going to skip watching.

Understandable.
I didn't actually watch the embedded video either.
I've seen enough death, no need to seek it out here.

[Boise_Chief]

This is why we need to spend more on training for law enforcement. No way does this perp make it to his next b-day in Boise. I feel for the deputy but he shouldn't have been in law enforcement. His hesitancy to end it before he was put in danger cost him his life.

That said the perp shouldhave been dead within a year of capture. The legal system needs an enema.

[Fritz88]

That said the perp shouldhave been dead within a year of capture. The legal system needs an enema.

within a fucking week.

[bevischief]

If I was a cop(or other law enforcement) I would shoot 1st and answer questions later in this day and age.

[Bane]

within a ****ing week.

I wish I was the guy that cuffed him.:bang:
He'd never made it to the car breathing.

[Halfcan]

wow that is just sad

[Bane]

wow that is just sad

I know.I wish I hadn't watched it now.:cuss:

[Rausch]

And people complain because cops use force at the drop of a hat...

[suds79]

wow that is just sad

Ugh that was really sad.

I mean hindsight being 20/20 you wish the officer would have done something different or opened fire when the man appeared to be going back in his truck for something. But I mean what can you do? You don't want to go over the line but at the same time you have to protect yourself. It's got to be a tough job.

Just sad to see that. Really, really was.

[Norman Einstein]

Before I post the video my take is two-fold and split in that I think law enforcement officers are grossly underpaid and yet in this paticular video I was thinking what a dumbass cop,you've given fair warning,why not just shoot and wound this crazy bastard before he does something crazier.

I thought cops were trained to shoot to kill?

The description was enough for me, I haven't watched the video.

[niblet]

The question on everyone's mind is, why didn't he shoot him earlier? It's easy for us to ask but being in that moment is an entirely different thing. I imagine it's incredibly hard to to bring yourself to pull the trigger.

[BIG K]

I thought cops were trained to shoot to kill?

The description was enough for me, I haven't watched the video.

Here lies the reason why not everyone can be in law enforcement. In my very first interview before I became a Sheriff, I was asked could I take someone else's life. It was obvious to me that the officer, peace be to his family, was not capable of taking anothers life. Strange behavior by people is normal but, as soon as he returned to his vehicle, I thought he was going to get a gun and I would have taken cover and pulled my weapon. (Don't bother with the argument that I wasn't in his shoes because I have been)

The officer took the step of asking the guy to drop the weapon, I would not have taken the time to ask. As an officer, if you see a weapon, the persons intent is implied and you cease to negotiate, period. To answer your question, we are trained to "stop" the agression. We train to 'shoot' center of mass, (the body, more defined as the chest area) if they stop and are still alive fine, if they die, oh well. He had a gun and the implied intent was to cause me harm or death, it would have been a justified shoot.

[KCbroncoHATER]

That happened to Trooper Brashear in Lee's Summit a few years ago. He pulled over a car on 470 and 281, less than 5 minutes from Troop A Headquarters. The driver shot him 9 times with a 9mm and he lived.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kv_uKgGX5k&feature=fvw

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/F47aZCLzk74&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/F47aZCLzk74&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[Norman Einstein]

Here lies the reason why not everyone can be in law enforcement. In my very first interview before I became a Sheriff, I was asked could I take someone else's life. It was obvious to me that the officer, peace be to his family, was not capable of taking anothers life. Strange behavior by people is normal but, as soon as he returned to his vehicle, I thought he was going to get a gun and I would have taken cover and pulled my weapon. (Don't bother with the argument that I wasn't in his shoes because I have been)

The officer took the step of asking the guy to drop the weapon, I would not have taken the time to ask. As an officer, if you see a weapon, the persons intent is implied and you cease to negotiate, period. To answer your question, we are trained to "stop" the agression. We train to 'shoot' center of mass, (the body, more defined as the chest area) if they stop and are still alive fine, if they die, oh well. He had a gun and the implied intent was to cause me harm or death, it would have been a justified shoot.

I've been talking to a friend that is in the Marines. I'd heard him say things in the past but never really paid that much attention to them, but the words had to do with shooting a weapon. "Send Death Downrange" is the term.

It has more meaning now than before. I wouldn't want to be in that position, I don't know if I could pull the trigger or not. Props to you for standing in the way of those bullets that might be meant for others.

[Simply Red]

I almost couldn't purposely hand-pick a more 'backwoods' territory in Georgia, if I had to.

[Simply Red]

I've been talking to a friend that is in the Marines. I'd heard him say things in the past but never really paid that much attention to them, but the words had to do with shooting a weapon. "Send Death Downrange" is the term.

It has more meaning now than before. I wouldn't want to be in that position, I don't know if I could pull the trigger or not. Props to you for standing in the way of those bullets that might be meant for others.

I'm sorry, I'm not being a jerk or, not trying to be. But, I totally can't make the connection w. your Marine friend, can you pls. elaborate?

[BIG K]

I've been talking to a friend that is in the Marines. I'd heard him say things in the past but never really paid that much attention to them, but the words had to do with shooting a weapon. "Send Death Downrange" is the term.

It has more meaning now than before. I wouldn't want to be in that position, I don't know if I could pull the trigger or not. Props to you for standing in the way of those bullets that might be meant for others.

For the record my friend, though I used your post to reply, I was implying that the deceased officer had no business being a cop. Again, total respect to him and his family but, he did not have that instinct. It was not implied, though quoted, that my response to your response was not a knock on you. Make sense?

[Rausch]

I'm sorry, I'm not being a jerk or, not trying to be. But, I totally can't make the connection w. your Marine friend, can you pls. elaborate?

Empty it.

Have the other guy die, not you...

[Simply Red]

Empty it.

Have the other guy die, not you...

Are you indicating you think I'd like to be a police officer? /Donger

[Simply Red]

Empty it.

Have the other guy die, not you...

I kind of figured that was what that meant, but couldn't tell for sure.

[Rausch]

Are you indicating you think I'd like to be a police officer? /Donger

Nope.

I wouldn't want to be a cop.

I'm a prison guard, big difference.

I'd rather work at a zoo than try to catch the lion...

[BIG K]

Nope.

I wouldn't want to be a cop.

I'm a prison guard, big difference.

I'd rather work at a zoo than try to catch the lion...

In my book, you guys at prison and the county jail have it much harder than I did. Sure, I get to arrest them, get into a fight, shoot some guys but, you guys have to deal with those a-holes 24-7, props to you.

[Simply Red]

Nope.

I wouldn't want to be a cop.

I'm a prison guard, big difference.

I'd rather work at a zoo than try to catch the lion...

you should try that one on chicks, Brad. It's an awesome line.

[BIG K]

you should try that one on chicks, Brad. It's an awesome line.

Chicks dig a guy who can intimidate other guys. They also like guys in a uniform and a gun, it was waaaaaay coooool! :D

[Norman Einstein]

I'm sorry, I'm not being a jerk or, not trying to be. But, I totally can't make the connection w. your Marine friend, can you pls. elaborate?

If you are carrying a weapon you are supposed to only use it for one reason, to shoot to kill. I don't know of anyone that teaches you to wound anyone you are trying to shoot. "Send death downrange."

[BigMeatballDave]

And people complain because cops use force at the drop of a hat...
Posted via Mobile Device

[Radar Chief]

I'm sorry, I'm not being a jerk or, not trying to be. But, I totally can't make the connection w. your Marine friend, can you pls. elaborate?

The deadliest weapon in the world is a marine and his rifle. It is your killer instinct which must be harnessed if you expect to survive in combat. Your rifle is only a tool. It is a hard heart that kills. If your killer instincts are not clean and strong you will hesitate at the moment of truth. You will not kill. You will become dead marines and then you will be in a world of shit because marines are not allowed to die without permission. Do you maggots understand?

This is what he means.

[Rukdafaidas]

Here lies the reason why not everyone can be in law enforcement. In my very first interview before I became a Sheriff, I was asked could I take someone else's life. It was obvious to me that the officer, peace be to his family, was not capable of taking anothers life. Strange behavior by people is normal but, as soon as he returned to his vehicle, I thought he was going to get a gun and I would have taken cover and pulled my weapon. (Don't bother with the argument that I wasn't in his shoes because I have been)

The officer took the step of asking the guy to drop the weapon, I would not have taken the time to ask. As an officer, if you see a weapon, the persons intent is implied and you cease to negotiate, period. To answer your question, we are trained to "stop" the agression. We train to 'shoot' center of mass, (the body, more defined as the chest area) if they stop and are still alive fine, if they die, oh well. He had a gun and the implied intent was to cause me harm or death, it would have been a justified shoot.
But, how do you know if you're capable until you're in that position? I'm sure the officer thought he was capable or he probably wouldn't have taken the job. It's tough to know exactly how you're going to react, until you're in that position.

[CosmicPal]

I nominate that as long as this thread remains an active discussion on our front page that we rename the Lounge to the Kyle Dinkheller Lounge in honor of his service and those who put their lives on the line each and every day.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

My thoughts:

#1) The unfortunate police officer was not well trained or did not handle it correctly. he had ample and multiple opportunitys to kill this person.

#2) This video IS something people need to se just for the fact that we need to understand that there are a lot of Nut jobs out there.

#3) Gives you reason to keep yourself armed at all times. You may be in walmart or a restaurant when somebody has had a bad day and loses it and decides he's gonna die and take as many with him as possible. It ain't gonna be me !

[Radar Chief]

It’s easy to say what one would do from the comfort of a chair tapping on a keyboard. Some may even consider themselves proficient from wasting bazillions of hours playing first person shooter games. But when you’ve got an actual living, breathing person in your sites its not nearly as easy as point and click.

Men Against Fire: How Many Soldiers Actually Fired Their Weapons at the Enemy During the Vietnam War

In a squad of 10 men, on average fewer than three ever fired their weapons in combat. Day in, day out — it did not matter how long they had been soldiers, how many months of combat they had seen, or even that the enemy was about to overrun their position. This was what the highly regarded Brigadier General Samuel Lyman Atwood Marshall, better known as S.L.A. Marshall, or 'Slam,' concluded in a series of military journal articles and in his book, Men Against Fire, about America's World War II soldiers. Marshall had been assigned as a military analyst for the U.S. Army in both the Pacific and Europe. The American, he concluded, comes 'from a civilization in which aggression, connected with the taking of life, is prohibited and unacceptable….The fear of aggression has been expressed to him so strongly and absorbed by him so deeply and pervadingly — practically with his mother's milk — that it is part of the normal man's emotional make-up. This is his great handicap when he enters combat. It stays his trigger finger even though he is hardly conscious that it is a restraint upon him.'

Much more at this link.

http://www.historynet.com/men-against-fire-how-many-soldiers-actually-fired-their-weapons-at-the-enemy-during-the-vietnam-war.htm

[TEX]

My thoughts:

#1) The unfortunate police officer was not well trained or did not handle it correctly. he had ample and multiple opportunitys to kill this person.

#2) This video IS something people need to se just for the fact that we need to understand that there are a lot of Nut jobs out there.

#3) Gives you reason to keep yourself armed at all times. You may be in walmart or a restaurant when somebody has had a bad day and loses it and decides he's gonna die and take as many with him as possible. It ain't gonna be me !

This. Plus I'd have shot the guy the second he stopped dancing and ignored me while proceeding to his truck.

[MOhillbilly]

It’s easy to say what one would do from the comfort of a chair tapping on a keyboard. Some may even consider themselves proficient from wasting bazillions of hours playing first person shooter games. But when you’ve got an actual living, breathing person in your sites its not nearly as easy as point and click.



Much more at this link.

http://www.historynet.com/men-against-fire-how-many-soldiers-actually-fired-their-weapons-at-the-enemy-during-the-vietnam-war.htm

Alot has changed since vietnam, tactics and training for the modern rifleman are worlds apart from what they were 30+ years ago.

in the civilian world you have two choices that as humans we cant stray from when confronted w/ fear.
Self preservation in some individuals is stronger than in others.
Natures law.

[B_Ambuehl]

You have to have the right personality to accurately fire a gun and hit a target in a high stress situation like that. A personality that doesn't succumb to the stress response. Something like 30-40% of people can't even control their hands well enough to dial 911 in a serious emergency. The officer obviously froze up and couldn't control himself well enough to shoot accurately. I think he was trying to shoot the guy, he even fired the first shot. But he froze up and couldn't hit the target. I put considerable blame on him for getting involved in a profession he wasn't suited for, and blame his employers for not effectively screening him out.

[Jilly]

Thank God I've never been in the situation and hopefully never will and maybe if I were, my opinion would change...but I honestly believe that I would die myself before I could pull the trigger and kill someone. That sounds sad, but I really think it might be true. Now I don't know now that I have a daughter, I used to know that to be true, but it came to her life or someone else's.....I probably could pull the trigger.

[Radar Chief]

Alot has changed since vietnam, tactics and training for the modern rifleman are worlds apart from what they were 30+ years ago.

in the civilian world you have two choices that as humans we cant stray from when confronted w/ fear.
Self preservation in some individuals is stronger than in others.
Natures law.

Agreed. In fact a big part of why training has changed is because of the report described at the link I posted.
This is why the military and police have gone to target practicing with human shaped silhouettes. When I went through Basic we qualified shooting at "pop up Ivans", they were shaped and dressed like a Soviet soldier.
Watching shows like Top Snipper on the Military Channel they started putting the faces of known terrorists on their targets. This is all so there is more of a chance that instinct and muscle memory will take over and the soldier will think less about what exactly he's doing to another human being.

[beach tribe]

That video just really screwed me up.

I just woke about an hr ago. I wasn't ready for that yet.

[Radar Chief]

Thank God I've never been in the situation and hopefully never will and maybe if I were, my opinion would change...but I honestly believe that I would die myself before I could pull the trigger and kill someone. That sounds sad, but I really think it might be true. Now I don't know now that I have a daughter, I used to know that to be true, but it came to her life or someone else's.....I probably could pull the trigger.

It's not just pulling the trigger it's maintaining control to fire accuratly like B_Ambuehl pointed out. This officer actually let enough lead fly he should've stopped the psycho but only one shot found it's mark and that wasn't enough to do the job.

[MOhillbilly]

You have to have the right personality to accurately fire a gun and hit a target in a high stress situation like that. A personality that doesn't succumb to the stress response. Something like 30-40% of people can't even control their hands well enough to dial 911 in a serious emergency. The officer obviously froze up and couldn't control himself well enough to shoot accurately. I think he was trying to shoot the guy, he even fired the first shot. But he froze up and couldn't hit the target. I put considerable blame on him for getting involved in a profession he wasn't suited for, and blame his employers for not effectively screening him out.

Hell the majority of people have never been in a stressful situation so the AD dump is something new.
Its a helluva drug.

[thebrad84]

Found a little more to the story, so sad...

Deputy Kyle Dinkheller had been with the agency for nearly three years at the time of his death. He was 22 when he was killed. He left a wife and an 18 month-old daughter. The day he was killed, his wife learned she was pregnant with their second child.

Andrew Brannan fled to property he owned in the area. Later he was found rolled in a tarp hidden in some underbrush. His hiding place was given away by the barking of his dog who refused to leave Brannan’s side. Brannan did not resist arrest. He has never shown any remorse. He knew he clearly had the advantage. Brannan is now on death row and is appealing.

Brannan shot Deputy Dinkheller 10 times after he was stopped on Interstate 16 for speeding.

[MOhillbilly]

Agreed. In fact a big part of why training has changed is because of the report described at the link I posted.
This is why the military and police have gone to target practicing with human shaped silhouettes. When I went through Basic we qualified shooting at "pop up Ivans", they were shaped and dressed like a Soviet soldier.
Watching shows like Top Snipper on the Military Channel they started putting the faces of known terrorists on their targets. This is all so there is more of a chance that instinct and muscle memory will take over and the soldier will think less about what exactly he's doing to another human being.


worth a gander.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldzld4myS6w

Edit- Combat vets might not wanna hear some of this...

[mikeyis4dcats.]

You have to have the right personality to accurately fire a gun and hit a target in a high stress situation like that. A personality that doesn't succumb to the stress response. Something like 30-40% of people can't even control their hands well enough to dial 911 in a serious emergency. The officer obviously froze up and couldn't control himself well enough to shoot accurately. I think he was trying to shoot the guy, he even fired the first shot. But he froze up and couldn't hit the target. I put considerable blame on him for getting involved in a profession he wasn't suited for, and blame his employers for not effectively screening him out.

that's kind of an asinine statement. The vast majority of people, even those trained, would have a hard time hitting a moving target when being fired at. Time and time again you can find stories of police (even multiple officers) shooting at a suspect dozens of times, and sometimes theu don't even hit him. The military is really not much different, but due to the automatic nature of their weapons they have to aim a little less accurately. I read the sotry of Pat Tillman's death a few weeks ago. His fellow soldiers fired hundreds of rounds in his direction, and he was hit less than 10 times, and that was largely due to the nature of the weaponry, with a high fire rate if you hit a target once you are bound to succeed with numerous rounds. furthermore, police officers are not trained to be killing machines. they are trained to handle weapons to suit their needs should they encounter resistance, they are not in a shoot first scenario.

[Bi_polar]

The question on everyone's mind is, why didn't he shoot him earlier? It's easy for us to ask but being in that moment is an entirely different thing. I imagine it's incredibly hard to to bring yourself to pull the trigger.

This is why your dumbass would get smoked too,

[ForeverChiefs58]

This is what should happen when they don't comply

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TXXzvpnkvm0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TXXzvpnkvm0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>