Teicher: New rules may curtail Chiefs’ free-agency shopping

[Tribal Warfare]

New rules may curtail Chiefs’ free-agency shopping (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1728485.html)
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

Clark Hunt has said it many times since becoming chairman of the Chiefs: He believes in building the team through the draft.

Hunt and the Chiefs may have little choice this year. The NFL’s owners and players are heading into the final year of the collective-bargaining agreement, and new rules will govern the free-agent market when it opens March 5.

Teams won’t be limited by a salary cap, but a limited number of players will be available. Nobody is certain how things will unfold, but it doesn’t appear teams will be able to load up on free-agent talent.

“It’s going to be very unpredictable,” Hunt said. “We haven’t been through a year like this when we had this set of rules. On the one hand, there’s no salary cap, which would lead you to believe there will be a lot of activity. Logic would tell you that. But there are all these restrictions on who’s a free agent and which teams can participate in free-agency.

“A lot of teams, the Chiefs included, are having to look at it from a lot of different angles. The rules we’ve had don’t apply.”

The players believed that a season without a salary cap would result in a flurry of high-dollar contracts, but that probably won’t materialize. While teams can spend as much on player salaries as they want in 2010, they also won’t be required to spend a minimum as before.

Players need six seasons of NFL service instead of four to become unrestricted free agents. Dozens of players leaguewide are scheduled to become restricted free agents instead.

Linebacker Derrick Johnson, quarterback Brodie Croyle, center Rudy Niswanger and safety Jarrad Page are among the Chiefs who fall into this category.

If the players and owners can’t come to an agreement on a new deal by 2011, there is the possibility of a lockout, and that looms over the free-agent proceedings as well.

“Players won’t get the bang for the buck that we might have years ago,” said agent Ken Harris, who represents former Chiefs defensive end Jared Allen, among others. “The economy will hold all of the smaller-market teams down and what they can spend. Some of the larger-market teams will have to think hard, too. Plus, some of the teams won’t be able to sign free agents at all unless they lose some, and then the idea that there might not be any football in 2011, that will hold some teams back from spending, too.

“For the star-type players, the high-end, Cadillac players, there might be the occasional deal where teams are willing to take the chance, but I think you’re going to see less of those this year.

“I think a lot of functional, serviceable players will get contracts, but not ones where teams will have to break the bank over it. Those guys might come out the best, not in terms of big contracts, but they might get better deals than they would have gotten otherwise.”

The Chiefs have needs at several positions and might like to sign a big-play wide receiver such as, say, Miles Austin of Dallas. Under the old rules, Austin would have been an unrestricted free agent, but he now will be restricted instead.

“The ones who won’t be (unrestricted) free agents because of a change in the rules, they’re the ones entering the prime years of their careers, and a lot of times they’re the hot free agents,” Hunt said. “That’s where a lot of the heavy activity has been in the past. So the dynamics on the market are going to be completely different.”

Because top available players will be scarce, they could be the objects of intense bidding wars. The Chiefs showed little interest in getting involved in such battles last year in free-agency.

So free-agency this year for the Chiefs could wind up looking like last year, when they signed several free agents but most for low-dollar contracts. Many were role players, and few had significant impact.

“I would think numerically we’ll be very active,” Hunt said. “I can’t say specifically we’d sign what’s regarded as a high-priced or high-demand free agent. We’ll certainly look at every one of those players. (General manager Scott Pioli) has my blessing to pursue them if he thinks they’re the right fit for the football team.”

The new free-agency rules are just one reason it’s a good year for the Chiefs to believe in building through the draft. This year’s draft is considered the deepest in years, and the Chiefs will have three of the top 50 picks.

“Long-term, successful football teams are built through the draft,” Hunt said. “Having said that, there’s always an opportunity to fill in holes through free-agency. You can look to the Patriots of this past decade as a great example of a team that built primarily through the draft but weren’t afraid through trades or free-agency to go out and fill in with veteran players who ended up being big contributors for them.

“Our expectation is to be competing for the playoffs, participating in the playoffs and ultimately making it back to the Super Bowl. Scott and I talk frequently, almost daily, about those goals and things that need to happen to make that possible.”

[DaneMcCloud]

Then why the FUCK did he trade away the #34 overall pick for a broke-dick linebacker and a QB that can't throw the ball more than 45 feet accurately. AND pass on far more talented players than TyJack The Draft Hijack.

Somethin' ain't right here, Hoss.

[Titty Meat]

Lamar being cheap who called it.

[Mecca]

I enjoy Clark basically letting everyone know he's cheap and that's not going to change.

[DeezNutz]

**** it. Who wants the high-demand FA anyway?

[Bane]

Then why the **** did he trade away the #34 overall pick for a broke-dick linebacker and a QB that can't throw the ball more than 45 feet accurately. AND pass on far more talented players than TyJack The Draft Hijack.

Somethin' ain't right here, Hoss.

:clap:

[TRR]

Then why the FUCK did he trade away the #34 overall pick for a broke-dick linebacker and a QB that can't throw the ball more than 45 feet accurately. AND pass on far more talented players than TyJack The Draft Hijack.

Somethin' ain't right here, Hoss.

You'll eat your words soon enough.
Posted via Mobile Device

[The Bad Guy]

You'll eat your words soon enough.
Posted via Mobile Device

Based on what?

[the Talking Can]

until we spend to the cap limit, or even close to it....i have to assume that Clark is too cheap to build a winner.....

[SenselessChiefsFan]

I love how the guys talking about Hunt being cheap probably have about 12 dollars in their bank account.

Okay, first. When Carl was with the Chiefs, the Chiefs were always at least middle of the pack in spending. Some years, they were top five in spending, but never lower than 18th out of 32 teams. And, we had how many Super Bowls?

The Chiefs have spent top dollar on coaches and GM's throughout the last 20 years. Other than perhaps the two years that Gunther was coach.

Dick Vermeil had the largest staff in the NFL. Now, the Chiefs have hired Pioli, a wanted man by many teams. Do you think that came cheap? Oh, and of course Weis and Crennel.

Okay, the Chiefs are one of the smallest market teams in the NFL. They also don't have a 'new' stadium. Yes, they got a nice renovation, but that still doesn't generate the same revenue as a new stadium.

Do the Colts go out and spend a ton of money in free agency? What about the Pats? Okay, how about those Steelers?

Hmmm.

Well, who does spend huge money in free agency? Redskins, Cowboys, Broncos....

Hmmm.

So, Clark Hunt wants to follow the lead of the most successful teams in the NFL?

Get a rope. Surely, we need to string him up.

Here is the reality. Teams have budgets. This is real money here. The Chiefs can only spend the money once, just like you. When you buy that case of beer... you know that the money won't be there for the latest 'Camaro weekly' magazine that you love.

The Chiefs know that if they sign that free agent bust, it is less money to keep good players that they have developed. They also know it is less money to sign other players that can contribute.

It is amazing that even after fans see free agent bust, after bust, after bust.... they still think it is the 'answer' to all our problems.

[beach tribe]

Then why the **** did he trade away the #34 overall pick for a broke-dick linebacker and a QB that can't throw the ball more than 45 feet accurately. AND pass on far more talented players than TyJack The Draft Hijack.

Somethin' ain't right here, Hoss.

Every football thread turns into the same stupid conversation.

[chiefforlife]

I love how the guys talking about Hunt being cheap probably have about 12 dollars in their bank account.

Okay, first. When Carl was with the Chiefs, the Chiefs were always at least middle of the pack in spending. Some years, they were top five in spending, but never lower than 18th out of 32 teams. And, we had how many Super Bowls?

The Chiefs have spent top dollar on coaches and GM's throughout the last 20 years. Other than perhaps the two years that Gunther was coach.

Dick Vermeil had the largest staff in the NFL. Now, the Chiefs have hired Pioli, a wanted man by many teams. Do you think that came cheap? Oh, and of course Weis and Crennel.

Okay, the Chiefs are one of the smallest market teams in the NFL. They also don't have a 'new' stadium. Yes, they got a nice renovation, but that still doesn't generate the same revenue as a new stadium.

Do the Colts go out and spend a ton of money in free agency? What about the Pats? Okay, how about those Steelers?

Hmmm.

Well, who does spend huge money in free agency? Redskins, Cowboys, Broncos....

Hmmm.

So, Clark Hunt wants to follow the lead of the most successful teams in the NFL?

Get a rope. Surely, we need to string him up.

Here is the reality. Teams have budgets. This is real money here. The Chiefs can only spend the money once, just like you. When you buy that case of beer... you know that the money won't be there for the latest 'Camaro weekly' magazine that you love.

The Chiefs know that if they sign that free agent bust, it is less money to keep good players that they have developed. They also know it is less money to sign other players that can contribute.

It is amazing that even after fans see free agent bust, after bust, after bust.... they still think it is the 'answer' to all our problems.

Very sensible, Chiefs fan.

[bsp4444]

I think the Jets did a nice job of combining drafted players with free agents to create a playoff contender.

[beach tribe]

I think the Jets did a nice job of combining drafted players with free agents to create a playoff contender.

They did, but let's not forget that, that team went 9-7, and then, IMO, got a little lucky in the POs.

Derelle Revis is just Awesome, and their D, and running game is damn good, but they still have a Loooong way to go to get a ring.
they are 1 game over .500, and still completely mediocre, even with the #1 defense.

They won't be able to win very many games in today's NFL by running the ball 40 times, and having Sanchez PA pass 15 times a game.
Mart proved in the 90s that you need more than that to win a SB.
Oh it will get you into the POs, and maybe a PO victory here, and there, but ultimately just PO loss heartache.

[The Bad Guy]

I love how the guys talking about Hunt being cheap probably have about 12 dollars in their bank account.

Please let me know how it connection between Clark being cheap and someone who has 12 dollars to their name and how they have anything to do with each other.?

Okay, first. When Carl was with the Chiefs, the Chiefs were always at least middle of the pack in spending. Some years, they were top five in spending, but never lower than 18th out of 32 teams. And, we had how many Super Bowls?

The Chiefs have spent top dollar on coaches and GM's throughout the last 20 years. Other than perhaps the two years that Gunther was coach.

Dick Vermeil had the largest staff in the NFL. Now, the Chiefs have hired Pioli, a wanted man by many teams. Do you think that came cheap? Oh, and of course Weis and Crennel.

Okay, the Chiefs are one of the smallest market teams in the NFL. They also don't have a 'new' stadium. Yes, they got a nice renovation, but that still doesn't generate the same revenue as a new stadium.

Do the Colts go out and spend a ton of money in free agency? What about the Pats? Okay, how about those Steelers?

The Patriots spend a ton in free agency. That's just an awful example.

However, all of those teams have drafted smart. When the Chiefs can start doing that, then free agency will be second fiddle.

For the record, I don't thinK Clark is cheap at all.

[SAUTO]

I enjoy Clark basically letting everyone know he's cheap and that's not going to change.

ROFL, yeah bringing in pioli was the cheapest thing he could do, hiring weis and crennel was the cheapest way to go, i'm sure. giving cassel 28 million guaranteed was the SURE sign of a cheapskate ( no matter if you agree with the decision or not). :rolleyes: paying chan AND herm and getting nothing out of the money SCREAMS cheap to me too. Just because some of you guys insist on saying this every day doesnt make it true

[OnTheWarpath15]

Shocking.

[OnTheWarpath15]

ROFL, yeah bringing in pioli was the cheapest thing he could do, hiring weis and crennel was the cheapest way to go, i'm sure. giving cassel 28 million guaranteed was the SURE sign of a cheapskate ( no matter if you agree with the decision or not). :rolleyes: paying chan AND herm and getting nothing out of the money SCREAMS cheap to me too. Just because some of you guys insist on saying this every day doesnt make it true

You make a good point.

Cheap isn't the word that should be used.

He's spending money, he's just spending it poorly, for the most part.

Finding value for the dollar has never been a strong suit of this organization, and definitely not in recent years.

[Marcellus]

Anybody who read this story and came out with "Clark is cheap" is simply pushing their agenda.

“I would think numerically we’ll be very active,” Hunt said. “I can’t say specifically we’d sign what’s regarded as a high-priced or high-demand free agent. We’ll certainly look at every one of those players. (General manager Scott Pioli) has my blessing to pursue them if he thinks they’re the right fit for the football team.”

God forbid if we don't go pay too much money for shit FA's like we did in the past....K.Bell, N.Harris, Surtain, Edwards, McGlockton etc... that woudl mean Clark is cheap.

Now everyone who said you build a team through the draft are pissing and moaning because we aren't willing to break the bank on...who do we need to break the bank on again? Who is available that we must have?

The comments about Clark being cheap are as stupid as the arguments against bringing Crennel in here. Plenty of bitching but no alternative offered or resonable option given.

Exactly who do you guy want to spend the big $ on? Did you even look at the available FA list? Are you paying attention?

[wild1]

I'm going to venture a guess that we might have one of the highest-paid GMs, and now, among the highest paid coaching staffs.

Hunt also gave Scott Pioli the authority to guarantee over $30 million for the QB that Pioli said was his guy.

Say what you will, but the money going out to improve this football team is not all figured into the salary cap, and does not reflect "cheap" on Hunt's part.

[KCbroncoHATER]

Teams have budgets ... yeah like being $30 mil under the cap every year.

Hunt is not a millionaire he is a billionaire.

And a cheap bastard, just like his dad was.

[beach tribe]

Anybody who read this story and came out with "Clark is cheap" is simply pushing their agenda.

“I would think numerically we’ll be very active,” Hunt said. “I can’t say specifically we’d sign what’s regarded as a high-priced or high-demand free agent. We’ll certainly look at every one of those players. (General manager Scott Pioli) has my blessing to pursue them if he thinks they’re the right fit for the football team.”

God forbid if we don't go pay too much money for shit FA's like we did in the past....K.Bell, N.Harris, Surtain, Edwards, McGlockton etc... that woudl mean Clark is cheap.

Now everyone who said you build a team through the draft are pissing and moaning because we aren't willing to break the bank on...who do we need to break the bank on again? Who is available that we must have?

The comments about Clark being cheap are as stupid as the arguments against bringing Crennel in here. Plenty of bitching but no alternative offered or resonable option given.

Exactly who do you guy want to spend the big $ on? Did you even look at the available FA list? Are you paying attention?

That's what cracks me up. the same people who said we should be building the team through the draft, now says that we're cheap because we won't get into a bidding war for over-priced FAs.

And saying that Clark is Cheap is Total BS, and just makes that person look stupid.

And NO. Obviously they are NOT paying attention.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Here's our payroll ranking for the decade against the other 32 teams:

2009: 31st

2008: 32nd

2007: 5th

2006: 29th

2005: 11th

2004: 14th

2003: 18th

2002: 12th

2001: 26th

2000: 8th

[beach tribe]

Here's our payroll ranking for the decade against the other 32 teams:

2009: 31st

2008: 32nd

2007: 5th

2006: 29th

2005: 11th

2004: 14th

2003: 18th

2002: 12th

2001: 26th

2000: 8th

For an average of 18th. I wonder what our market ranks. And I wonder where our Front office, and Coaching staff ranks right now.
It's no secret that our Payroll is really low right now, as a rebuilding team should be.
let's not forget that we are in the 2nd season of a complete rebuild.

[KCbroncoHATER]

I guess I am stupid so could you explain it to me. What makes you think that he is not cheap?

We have been building through the draft now for 4 years, how many games have we won doing it?

[KCbroncoHATER]

Could you provide the link to the numbers you posted.

Thanks!

[beach tribe]

I guess I am stupid so could you explain it to me. What makes you think that he is not cheap?

We have been building through the draft now for 4 years, how many games have we won doing it?

I'm not even going to try and explain anything to you.

[SAUTO]

You make a good point.

Cheap isn't the word that should be used.

He's spending money, he's just spending it poorly, for the most part.

Finding value for the dollar has never been a strong suit of this organization, and definitely not in recent years.

what money spent from my post do you think was spent poorly? cassel aside?
so as of this point you believe pioli, weis, and crennel are poorly spent money?

[OnTheWarpath15]

For an average of 18th. I wonder what our market ranks. And I wonder where our Front office, and Coaching staff ranks right now.

Don't know. As I pointed out earlier, I'm in the camp that says Clark's not cheap, he just spends his money poorly.

But I'd be lying if I didn't notice that in the 4 years he's had either significant control (2006) or total control (2007-present) that we've been ranked 29th, 31st and 32nd in payroll in 3 of those 4 years.

Draft properly, and this isn't really an issue.

Hell, Indy was 29th in payroll in 2008, and in the bottom half this year.

[Marcellus]

I still want to know who is available we have to have but we are too cheap to sign.

[beach tribe]

Don't know. As I pointed out earlier, I'm in the camp that says Clark's not cheap, he just spends his money poorly.

But I'd be lying if I didn't notice that in the 4 years he's had either significant control (2006) or total control (2007-present) that we've been ranked 29th, 31st and 32nd in payroll in 3 of those 4 years.

Draft properly, and this isn't really an issue.

Hell, Indy was 29th in payroll in 2008.

Totally agree. I've been on the "build through the draft" wagon ever since Herm started it, and I still agree with that approach.(but I never agreed with Herm, and Carl spear heading it) I think money, and cap space should be saved until you have put together enough pieces through the draft, and then spend big bucks on the pieces you need to get over the top. JMHO.
I don't care how long it takes to do it through the draft, you keep trying until you do it. That's the only way we will build a strong consistent contender.
I also believe in bringing in a ton of cheap scrap heap FAs, and trying to find a diamond in the rough. If they don't work out, you've lost next to nothing, If they do work out, awesome, but you can't look at those acquisitions and see FAIL if they don't work out or contribute. It's a crap shoot, and hopefully you get lucky on a few, but you can't count on it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

what money spent from my post do you think was spent poorly? cassel aside?
so as of this point you believe pioli, weis, and crennel are poorly spent money?

I'm talking strictly player payroll. However, Pioli didn't earn his paycheck in 2009, that's for sure. He needs a 2-out, 460 foot moonshot over the left-centerfield fence this offseason.

This franchise has no concept of value for the dollar.

We're paying a career backup more than both Super Bowl QB's.

We're paying two 5-technique DE's what a franchise QB should make.

We threw $1M away to watch Zach Thomas prepare for the Tour de France.

In the past, we've re-upped a contract on a declining RB.

Spent money in FA on outright failures.

Wasted high draft picks (which are currency) on coaches and older players.

Just a few examples. I can't recall the last FA signing, draft pick, trade or acquisition where we got more in return than what we gave up, either financially or in draft value.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Totally agree. I've been on the "build through the draft" wagon ever since Herm started it, and I still agree with that approach.(but I never agreed with Herm, and Carl spear heading it) I think money, and cap space should be saved until you have put together enough pieces through the draft, and then spend big bucks on the pieces you need to get over the top. JMHO.
I don't care how long it takes to do it through the draft, you keep trying until you do it. That's the only way we will build a strong consistent contender.
I also believe in bringing in a ton of cheap scrap heap FAs, and trying to find a diamond in the rough. If they don't work out, you've lost next to nothing, If they do work out, awesome, but you can't look at those acquisitions and see FAIL if they don't work out or contribute. It's a crap shoot, and hopefully you get lucky on a few, but you can't count on it.

Almost completely agree, but if you have solid talent evaluators, you shouldn't need to bring in "tons" of scrubs for competition.

That money, even at the vet minimum, adds up for a team with a supposed smaller budget.

It's like the Zach Thomas thing. Most people will say, "big deal, it's only a million dollars," ignoring the bigger issue - you got nothing for the $1M, and you absolutely whiffed on talent evaluation, and now have to spend more money to fix your fuck up.

[Mr. Laz]

Every football thread turns into the same stupid conversation.
yep ... i wonder how that happens.

[Mr. Laz]

btw ... i've been saying that Free agency is fucked without a new CBA for months

[Chiefnj2]

It's like the Zach Thomas thing. Most people will say, "big deal, it's only a million dollars," ignoring the bigger issue - you got nothing for the $1M, and you absolutely whiffed on talent evaluation, and now have to spend more money to fix your **** up.

It isn't a big deal at all. 1. It's not your money, stop acting like you care about Clark spending 1 million dollars, 2. The deal doesn't hurt KC's cap in the future, 3. the deal didn't prevent the Chiefs from signing anyone else, 4. There is no way in hell Pioli felt that Thomas was any type of long term solution, and 5. since Thomas wasn't thought of as a long term solution, then they would have planned on spending money to replace him in any event.

[Titty Meat]

For an average of 18th. I wonder what our market ranks. And I wonder where our Front office, and Coaching staff ranks right now.
It's no secret that our Payroll is really low right now, as a rebuilding team should be.
let's not forget that we are in the 2nd season of a complete rebuild.

Forbes had the Chiefs as the 14th most profitable franchise.

[beach tribe]

Almost completely agree, but if you have solid talent evaluators, you shouldn't need to bring in "tons" of scrubs for competition.

That money, even at the vet minimum, adds up for a team with a supposed smaller budget.

It's like the Zach Thomas thing. Most people will say, "big deal, it's only a million dollars," ignoring the bigger issue - you got nothing for the $1M, and you absolutely whiffed on talent evaluation, and now have to spend more money to fix your **** up.

I agree with what you are saying, but have to add that even the brightest minds, and best talent evaluators get it wrong. Nobody is right all of the time. There's just no way to be. that's why I'm for bringing in a lot of them, because you never know which ones are going to hit their stride, or fall of the horse.

As an example of even the best GMs just making the wrong call, I go to Meccas man crush A.J. Smith. Good GM, who made great moves, to build his team, and then made two personnel decisions that ultimately cost his team a cpl rings in my mind. He gave up on Brees too soon, and used a 1st on Rivers, and then let Brees walk, and also let M. Turner walk in favor L.T.
Everybody makes mistakes. the more people you bring in the better chance you have of finding something to work with, cause when it really comes down to it, NOBODY knows everything that is going to happen.

And the Zach Thomas thing does not affect a franchise in our position in one tiny way. Think of it this way. they paid Thomas to come in, and play 1 season. That season is now over, and he would have been gone anyway. Even if he would have played, it would not have been the difference in any game. It did not hurt us financially. I do not care one bit about the 1M of Clark's money. He has TONs of it. It was only, what, 150,000 more than the vet min. they paid him a little more than the vet min, to see if he had another year in the tank to help the younger guys. He duped them, and walked away with some dough. In the grand scheme of things.(2010-20??) It means nothing.
What cripples teams are the high priced, players, and FAs who get huge paydays, and then don't produce. The Larry Johnsons, Chester Ms.,Hugh Dougleses of the league, who teams get into bidding wars over, and then strap that team for the next 4 years with squat to show for it.
A one year Mil contract for an old vet in a rebuilding year, 30 mil under the cap is really no reason to raise a stink.

[beach tribe]

Forbes had the Chiefs as the 14th most profitable franchise.

Nice find. Thanks.

[Marcellus]

Forbes had the Chiefs as the 14th most profitable franchise.

You guys are reading that shit to much on face value. They had the 14th highest operating income at $52MM.

Profit and operating income is not the same thing. Profit is after taxes, interest, depreciation etc...operating income is before.

Depending on the situation there can be a larger difference from one team to another on operating income and profit. Depends on the state tax agreement, any money that may be on loan form banks that has interest etc....

Not saying they are losing money or going broke, just saying a lot of people are looking at the numbers as profit and that's not the case.

KC was the 14th most valuable franchise, not the 14th most profitable.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think it's laughable for people to say, "who gives a shit, it's Clark's money, he has a shit-ton of it," ignoring that this team obviously has a very tight budget, and every wasted dollar DOES matter - no different than your personal budget.

A million here, 500K there, it adds up.

If your personal budget was tight, would you hand a homeless person $100 for shits and giggles?

[KCbroncoHATER]

They had the 14th highest operating income at $52MM.

Operating Income - Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization.

[KCbroncoHATER]

I'm not even going to try and explain anything to you.

It's because you can't.

You ran your pie hole and called everyone who disagrees with you stupid.

I am just asking you to prove it.

So prove it.

[LaChapelle]

All the talk is no one will be available
and now Clark is cheap for not spending?
Sad to be you

[SAUTO]

I'm talking strictly player payroll. However, Pioli didn't earn his paycheck in 2009, that's for sure. He needs a 2-out, 460 foot moonshot over the left-centerfield fence this offseason.

This franchise has no concept of value for the dollar.

We're paying a career backup more than both Super Bowl QB's.

We're paying two 5-technique DE's what a franchise QB should make.

We threw $1M away to watch Zach Thomas prepare for the Tour de France.

In the past, we've re-upped a contract on a declining RB.

Spent money in FA on outright failures.

Wasted high draft picks (which are currency) on coaches and older players.

Just a few examples. I can't recall the last FA signing, draft pick, trade or acquisition where we got more in return than what we gave up, either financially or in draft value.

all in bold have NOTHING to do with the current people in charge. who cares that thomas got 1 mil? you have said repeatedly that the money spent doesnt matter to you, why use it now? it's not like it put us in cap hell for years, spend that 1 mil if it works out for a year great if not who REALLY cares?

The "Career Backup" is somewhat funny, OMG why couldnt the guy beat out carson palmer, matt leinart, and tom brady????? give it a chance and this year will be really telling on him.

[KCbroncoHATER]

It has nothing to do with Clark being cheap.

The chefs have saved 90 million dollars over the last four seasons by not spending to the cap limit. I want to know why. You sure can't build winning team like that. This is the same thing his dad did in the 70's and 80's.

I am a 20 year season ticket holder, so I have money invested in this deal, not some dude that watching it on tv and buys new chefs gear every five years.

[OnTheWarpath15]

all in bold have NOTHING to do with the current people in charge. who cares that thomas got 1 mil? you have said repeatedly that the money spent doesnt matter to you, why use it now? it's not like it put us in cap hell for years, spend that 1 mil if it works out for a year great if not who REALLY cares?

The "Career Backup" is somewhat funny, OMG why couldnt the guy beat out carson palmer, matt leinart, and tom brady????? give it a chance and this year will be really telling on him.

Uh, Clark Hunt had nothing to do with the team prior to this year?

His family's money had been paying the bills here and ultimately making the financial decisions for decades.

[Ralphy Boy]

Almost completely agree, but if you have solid talent evaluators, you shouldn't need to bring in "tons" of scrubs for competition.

I agree with what you are saying, but have to add that even the brightest minds, and best talent evaluators get it wrong. Nobody is right all of the time. There's just no way to be. that's why I'm for bringing in a lot of them, because you never know which ones are going to hit their stride, or fall of the horse.

“Long-term, successful football teams are built through the draft,” Hunt said.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, every scout and staff member should be asked to rank every player in the draft and give a summary of their opinion on the first 150 or so. Those rankings should be held onto by management and reviewed each year to see how accurate they are down the road. To build a franchise the way that Clark wants to he has to hold them accountable for what they say. Build a profile for each position based ona criteria that the coaching staff feels is most important for success in the style of offense & defense that we play now. Since staff doesn't figure into the salary cap, they could tie an incentive plan into it. Rank each of the players on a scale of 1 to 10 and stack your board accordingly.

Have the coaching staff judge each prior years draft class at interval points immediately following the first minicamp, training camp, preseason and then regular season. Finish a overall first year evaluation prior to starting the next years draft class evaluations. If a particular scout did well, you give his choices a slight edge in priority over ones that didn't fare as well. The first round picks would have a slightly higher weighted value over the second round picks and so on.

You might find that one scout ranks a player as a 3rd rounder while another grades him as a 5th rounder. If said player was picked in the 5th round but played like a 3rd, you'd tend to believe that the scout or evaluator might be better at their job than other scouts in the league. Not necessarily saying you'd take a guy in the 2nd that you think will be there in the 5th, but you get the idea.

My point is you might have a great position coach that isn't as good at evaluating talent and you get rid of scouts that can't seem to pick the right players for the type of scheme we employ.

[SAUTO]

Uh, Clark Hunt had nothing to do with the team prior to this year?

His family's money had been paying the bills here and ultimately making the financial decisions for decades.

no more needs said. didnt you say somewhere today that he's (clark) only been in charge for a couple of years? now you want to change that up?

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Please let me know how it connection between Clark being cheap and someone who has 12 dollars to their name and how they have anything to do with each other.?



The Patriots spend a ton in free agency. That's just an awful example.

However, all of those teams have drafted smart. When the Chiefs can start doing that, then free agency will be second fiddle.

For the record, I don't thinK Clark is cheap at all.

Because people who have 12 dollars in the bank typically don't understand how to spend money wisely. They don't understand budgets and investments. And, to read them commenting on the spending policies of someone who actually understands basic economics is laugable.

It's like Go Chiefs giving jouranlism or dating advice.

Or Mecca talking about the length and dated look of someone's hair.

Or Dane teaching humility.

Just laughable.

[Chiefnj2]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, every scout and staff member should be asked to rank every player in the draft and give a summary of their opinion on the first 150 or so. Those rankings should be held onto by management and reviewed each year to see how accurate they are down the road. To build a franchise the way that Clark wants to he has to hold them accountable for what they say. Build a profile for each position based ona criteria that the coaching staff feels is most important for success in the style of offense & defense that we play now. Since staff doesn't figure into the salary cap, they could tie an incentive plan into it. Rank each of the players on a scale of 1 to 10 and stack your board accordingly.

Have the coaching staff judge each prior years draft class at interval points immediately following the first minicamp, training camp, preseason and then regular season. Finish a overall first year evaluation prior to starting the next years draft class evaluations. If a particular scout did well, you give his choices a slight edge in priority over ones that didn't fare as well. The first round picks would have a slightly higher weighted value over the second round picks and so on.

You might find that one scout ranks a player as a 3rd rounder while another grades him as a 5th rounder. If said player was picked in the 5th round but played like a 3rd, you'd tend to believe that the scout or evaluator might be better at their job than other scouts in the league. Not necessarily saying you'd take a guy in the 2nd that you think will be there in the 5th, but you get the idea.

My point is you might have a great position coach that isn't as good at evaluating talent and you get rid of scouts that can't seem to pick the right players for the type of scheme we employ.

It would probably be impossible to do what you set out above. KC's scouts are hopefully looking at players through the eyes of the scheme and abilities that KC is looking for at the moment. They might have a cover 2 defensive player ranked very low because they don't fit KC's scheme. That player might be drafted and play well for Tampa but it doesn't mean the scout missed his evaluation.

[Ralphy Boy]

It would probably be impossible to do what you set out above. KC's scouts are hopefully looking at players through the eyes of the scheme and abilities that KC is looking for at the moment. They might have a cover 2 defensive player ranked very low because they don't fit KC's scheme. That player might be drafted and play well for Tampa but it doesn't mean the scout missed his evaluation.

I really don't see why not.

Like I said, you evaluate them after minicamp, training camp, preseason and the regular season. It's not like the type of player you are looking for changes during one season and they should get credit for how the player performed year 1. If the profile that the team has created for a particular position is sound, then you'd have a real good idea early on how well they are living up to the evaluators expectations. If they are an "early contributor" they should grade out at a higher level than a "developmental player" and that's why later round/developmental guys aren't given as much value. Its a weighted value assigned based on where the player is drafted.

Pittsburgh has never really changed the type of defense they run, schematically neither has Romeo, Weis, Parcells and so on. You set the profile based on the coaching staff and charge the scouts & coaches with finding players that fit it.

[Epic Fail 007]

NO CLARKS NOT CHEAP,SOME OF U PEOPLE WANT TO THROW IN THE TOWEL AFTER ONE YR ,AND THATS JUST STUPID AND YOU KNOW IT.ON RECORD CLARK HAS TOLD SCOTT TO GO OUT THIS YR AND GET WHAT HE NEEDS THIS,SOME YOU JUST CRACK ME UP HOW FAIR WEATHER YOU ARE.ITS NOT FAIR TO BASH AFTER 1 YR.IF THE BIG COACHING CHANGES SHOW EAGERNESS TO WIN YOU NEED TO OPEN UR EYES.LOGIC SAYS IF THEY SPEND ON THESE TOP NOTCH COACHES,THEN WELL THINK ABOUT IT,THEY WILL GO GOT AND GET SOME KEY PLAYERS FOR THEM.SOME OF YOU NEED TO CALM DOWN,THE ORGANIZATIONS LONG TERM OUT LOOK,LOOKS 10 TIMES BETTER THAN IT EVER DID UNDER CARL EVEN LAMAR WHO SEEMED TO CARE MORE ABOUT HIS SOCCER TEAM.THINGS ARE TAKING FORM,THE DEN WIN SPARKED CONFIDENCE AND THATS A DANGEROUS WEAPON.

[Chiefnj2]

I really don't see why not.

Like I said, you evaluate them after minicamp, training camp, preseason and the regular season. It's not like the type of player you are looking for changes during one season and they should get credit for how the player performed year 1. If the profile that the team has created for a particular position is sound, then you'd have a real good idea early on how well they are living up to the evaluators expectations. If they are an "early contributor" they should grade out at a higher level than a "developmental player" and that's why later round/developmental guys aren't given as much value. Its a weighted value assigned based on where the player is drafted.

Pittsburgh has never really changed the type of defense they run, schematically neither has Romeo, Weis, Parcells and so on. You set the profile based on the coaching staff and charge the scouts & coaches with finding players that fit it.

You can grade players on your team. If they are drafted by another team, your evaluation as to how they fit in KC would no longer apply unless another team is running the same schemes and is asking the players to do what you would ask of them.

[OnTheWarpath15]

no more needs said. didnt you say somewhere today that he's (clark) only been in charge for a couple of years? now you want to change that up?

:facepalm:

This act of your gets old quick.

Clark has been part of the decision making process for most, if not all of this decade. Year after year, he was given more responsibility, as Lamar aged and declined in health. He is now the ultimate decision maker.

However, nothing has changed, that's the entire point, one that obviously went right over your head.

Again.

[SAUTO]

:facepalm:

This act of your gets old quick.

Clark has been part of the decision making process for most, if not all of this decade. Year after year, he was given more responsibility, as Lamar aged and declined in health. He is now the ultimate decision maker.

However, nothing has changed, that's the entire point, one that obviously went right over your head.

Again.

youre act got old a LONG time ago, whiner. you make this fucking place seem like the movie groundhog day every fucking day.

anyway back on point: SOMETHING CHANGED lamar died and clark got FULL responsibility, right? sorry if thats too hard for you to understand

[Chiefnj2]

:facepalm:

This act of your gets old quick.

Clark has been part of the decision making process for most, if not all of this decade. Year after year, he was given more responsibility, as Lamar aged and declined in health. He is now the ultimate decision maker.

However, nothing has changed, that's the entire point, one that obviously went right over your head.

Again.

What decision making responsibility do you think Clark had when CP was GM?

[SAUTO]

Don't know. As I pointed out earlier, I'm in the camp that says Clark's not cheap, he just spends his money poorly.

But I'd be lying if I didn't notice that in the 4 years he's had either significant control (2006) or total control (2007-present) that we've been ranked 29th, 31st and 32nd in payroll in 3 of those 4 years.

Draft properly, and this isn't really an issue.

Hell, Indy was 29th in payroll in 2008, and in the bottom half this year.

:facepalm:

This act of your gets old quick.

Clark has been part of the decision making process for most, if not all of this decade. Year after year, he was given more responsibility, as Lamar aged and declined in health. He is now the ultimate decision maker.

However, nothing has changed, that's the entire point, one that obviously went right over your head.

Again.

the first post illustrates how YOU felt about clark's responsibility with the organization.

the second one you say that he had gotten more and more responsibility THEN you say that nothing has changed. if he had been assigned more responsibility then SOMETHING changed right?

Sorry if thats too simple for a mind like yours to figure out

[OnTheWarpath15]

What decision making responsibility do you think Clark had when CP was GM?

Are you really this stupid, or are you just acting that way?

Again.

It's common knowledge that Clark worked side-by side with his father over the past decade, gaining more responsibility leading up to Lamar's illness and hospitalization.

If you want to think he was a completely silent part of the operation, just window-dressing until the day Lamar died, and then just "takes over," feel free.

[OnTheWarpath15]

youre act got old a LONG time ago, whiner. you make this fucking place seem like the movie groundhog day every fucking day.

anyway back on point: SOMETHING CHANGED lamar died and clark got FULL responsibility, right? sorry if thats too hard for you to understand

Dumbshit.

My first post in the thread.

Finding value for the dollar has never been a strong suit of this organization, and definitely not in recent years.

YOU are the one wanting to separate the new regime from the old, when it has nothing to do with the conversation.

The point was the fact that the ORGANIZATION, not CP, not Pioli has a HISTORY of spending money foolishly.

YOU are the one trying to limit the conversation to Pioli, who isn't the fucking topic at hand.

what money spent from my post do you think was spent poorly? cassel aside?
so as of this point you believe pioli, weis, and crennel are poorly spent money?

[OnTheWarpath15]

the first post illustrates how YOU felt about clark's responsibility with the organization.

the second one you say that he had gotten more and more responsibility THEN you say that nothing has changed. if he had been assigned more responsibility then SOMETHING changed right?

Sorry if thats too simple for a mind like yours to figure out

Nothing has changed, dipshit.

The same family still pays the bills, under the same business model.

Clark runs the franchise EXACTLY like his old man did.

[Titty Meat]

Why do people not want to admit how mismanaged this organization has been and how it starts with the ownership? The Hunts don't give a fuck about Kansas City.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Why do people not want to admit how mismanaged this organization has been and how it starts with the ownership? The Hunts don't give a fuck about Kansas City.

40 years of suck, and there's one constant.

Not sure how people want to just gloss over that.

[Titty Meat]

40 years of suck, and there's one constant.

Not sure how people want to just gloss over that.

I think people are thankful that Lamar brought football to KC while true it wasn't all because of him either.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think people are thankful that Lamar brought football to KC while true it wasn't all because of him either.

Thankful is fine. I'm extremely thankful.

I'm not ashamed to say I shed some tears the day Lamar died. He's an icon in KC and professional football.

But that doesn't mean that as an owner, he didn't make mistakes, and pass his ownership skills on to Clark, who is making the same mistakes.

[rad]

the first post illustrates how YOU felt about clark's responsibility with the organization.

the second one you say that he had gotten more and more responsibility THEN you say that nothing has changed. if he had been assigned more responsibility then SOMETHING changed right?

Sorry if thats too simple for a mind like yours to figure out

Are you being serious right now? My sarcasm meter's busted.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Are you being serious right now? My sarcasm meter's busted.

LMAO

[Titty Meat]

Thankful is fine. I'm extremely thankful.

I'm not ashamed to say I shed some tears the day Lamar died. He's an icon in KC and professional football.

But that doesn't mean that as an owner, he didn't make mistakes, and pass his ownership skills on to Clark, who is making the same mistakes.

We all are thankful but people use that as some sort of excuse for the suckage.

[OnTheWarpath15]

We all are thankful but people use that as some sort of excuse for the suckage.

I agree.

[BossChief]

Some of you will bitch about the way the team is ran no matter what they do.

If we signed Canty, the story would have been that we paid too much, same with Haynesworth or Brown...yet we are cheap because we didnt.

If we build through free agency the haters would be beating the drums that good teams are built through the draft and dont have to push the salary cap to win. Now that we are just starting to build through the draft we are cheap.

We traded for a qb that was no more a risk than either underclassmen qb that was available in the draft (let alone the one with 15 career starts in college, the same amount of starts Cassel had, but his were in the NFL), but it was a foolish move because of his first year he played well under expectations and some "experts" think they already know the ceiling of a player that is just starting out.

Revisionist history is running a fucking muck in about every thread on the Planet.

I would love for us to go 9-7 and make the playoffs next year just to hear the fucking backpeddling that would occur here. Its entirely possible.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Some of you will bitch about the way the team is ran no matter what they do.

Wrong, but nice try.

If we signed Canty, the story would have been that we paid too much, same with Haynesworth or Brown...yet we are cheap because we didnt.

Wrong again, except for Haynesworth. That would have been a waste of cash, IMO.

It's been discussed ad nauseum about how Canty and Olshansky both could have been signed for what Tyson Jackson is making by himself. Neither were overpaid, IMO.

If we build through free agency the haters would be beating the drums that good teams are built through the draft and dont have to push the salary cap to win. Now that we are just starting to build through the draft we are cheap.

Except we're not building through the draft. We're ignoring basic draft value, and using valuable draft picks to acquire a career backup at the most important position on the field.

Just the way we've always done it.

We traded for a qb that was no more a risk than either underclassmen qb that was available in the draft (let alone the one with 15 career starts in college, the same amount of starts Cassel had, but his were in the NFL), but it was a foolish move because of his first year he played well under expectations and some "experts" think they already know the ceiling of a player that is just starting out.

No more a risk unless you completely ignore his age and his skillset.

Even if I thought that Cassel's, Stafford's and Sanchez' upside were all identical, (which they aren't) give me the guy who's five years younger every single time.

[SAUTO]

Dumbshit.

My first post in the thread.



YOU are the one wanting to separate the new regime from the old, when it has nothing to do with the conversation.

The point was the fact that the ORGANIZATION, not CP, not Pioli has a HISTORY of spending money foolishly.

YOU are the one trying to limit the conversation to Pioli, who isn't the fucking topic at hand.


what does ANYTHING that happened BEFORE clark had full control and pioli was here have to do with THIS YEARS FREE AGENCY PERIOD? you just threw shit out there to bitch about thats why i asked what FROM MY POST HAD TO DO WITH RIGHT NOW? you have really turned into a total fucking jackass

[OnTheWarpath15]

I would love for us to go 9-7 and make the playoffs next year just to hear the fucking backpeddling that would occur here. Its entirely possible.

What backpeddling?

When Pioli was hired, almost universally people expected to see at least an 8-8 or 9-7 season the second year.

[SAUTO]

Nothing has changed, dipshit.

The same family still pays the bills, under the same business model.

Clark runs the franchise EXACTLY like his old man did.

ummmm no he doesnt. lamar spent MUCH on FA, clark hasnt, yet. hell look back at the payroll post that YOU posted where have we been in the top 20 since clark has been in charge? 2007. and that was because of the bad contratcts from before

[SAUTO]

Are you being serious right now? My sarcasm meter's busted.

what are you fucking talking about, in ONE post he said that clark had been handed more and more responsibility. THATS A CHANGE!!! in the same post he said nothings changed. THATS WRONG!!!! clark wasnt in charge, now he is. THATS A CHANGE!!!

[OnTheWarpath15]

ummmm no he doesnt. lamar spent MUCH on FA, clark hasnt, yet. hell look back at the payroll post that YOU posted where have we been in the top 20 since clark has been in charge? 2007. and that was because of the bad contratcts from before

You really need to work on your reading comprehension.

I didn't call Clark cheap.

You make a good point.

Cheap isn't the word that should be used.

He's spending money, he's just spending it poorly, for the most part.

Finding value for the dollar has never been a strong suit of this organization, and definitely not in recent years.

Read that post, specifically the last sentence, and try to wrap your feeble little mind around it.

SPENDING MONEY ISN'T THE ISSUE.

SPENDING MONEY WISELY IS.

AND IT HAS BEEN AN ISSUE FOR DECADES.

WITH ONE CONSTANT OVER THAT TIME PERIOD.

OWNERSHIP.

[SAUTO]

You really need to work on your reading comprehension.

I didn't call Clark cheap.



Read that post, specifically the last sentence, and try to wrap your feeble little mind around it.

SPENDING MONEY ISN'T THE ISSUE.

SPENDING MONEY WISELY IS.

AND IT HAS BEEN AN ISSUE FOR DECADES.

WITH ONE CONSTANT OVER THAT TIME PERIOD.

OWNERSHIP.

sorry but maybe YOU are the one with comprehension issues, i NEVER said clark is cheap. never. what i said is that lamar spent tons in FA and clark hasnt, YET. and in your post you said especially in RECENT years clark has been in charge in recent years, no? pioli was here for the MOST recent year, no? And ownership HASNT been a constant no matter how many times you say it. lamar had full control which was shifted to clark when lamar died

[OnTheWarpath15]

what are you fucking talking about, in ONE post he said that clark had been handed more and more responsibility. THATS A CHANGE!!! in the same post he said nothings changed. THATS WRONG!!!! clark wasnt in charge, now he is. THATS A CHANGE!!!

sorry but maybe YOU are the one with comprehension issues, i NEVER said clark is cheap. never. what i said is that lamar spent tons in FA and clark hasnt, YET. and in your post you said especially in RECENT years clark has been in charge in recent years, no? pioli was here for the MOST recent year, no? And ownership HASNT been a constant no matter how many times you say it. lamar had full control which was shifted to clark when lamar died


Terri Schiavo weeps at these posts.

[max sleeper]

I love how the guys talking about Hunt being cheap probably have about 12 dollars in their bank account.

Okay, first. When Carl was with the Chiefs, the Chiefs were always at least middle of the pack in spending. Some years, they were top five in spending, but never lower than 18th out of 32 teams. And, we had how many Super Bowls?

The Chiefs have spent top dollar on coaches and GM's throughout the last 20 years. Other than perhaps the two years that Gunther was coach.

Dick Vermeil had the largest staff in the NFL. Now, the Chiefs have hired Pioli, a wanted man by many teams. Do you think that came cheap? Oh, and of course Weis and Crennel.

Okay, the Chiefs are one of the smallest market teams in the NFL. They also don't have a 'new' stadium. Yes, they got a nice renovation, but that still doesn't generate the same revenue as a new stadium.

Do the Colts go out and spend a ton of money in free agency? What about the Pats? Okay, how about those Steelers?

Hmmm.

Well, who does spend huge money in free agency? Redskins, Cowboys, Broncos....

Hmmm.

So, Clark Hunt wants to follow the lead of the most successful teams in the NFL?

Get a rope. Surely, we need to string him up.

Here is the reality. Teams have budgets. This is real money here. The Chiefs can only spend the money once, just like you. When you buy that case of beer... you know that the money won't be there for the latest 'Camaro weekly' magazine that you love.

The Chiefs know that if they sign that free agent bust, it is less money to keep good players that they have developed. They also know it is less money to sign other players that can contribute.

It is amazing that even after fans see free agent bust, after bust, after bust.... they still think it is the 'answer' to all our problems.

This! :thumb:

[SAUTO]

Terri Schiavo weeps at these posts.

well she probably has the same comprehension issue as you. you can say nothings changed as many times as you want, still doesnt make it true.


lamar was in charge
clark is now in charge
are they the same person?
if the answer is no then something has changed

[OnTheWarpath15]

well she probably has the same comprehension issue as you. you can say nothings changed as many times as you want, still doesnt make it true.


lamar was in charge
clark is now in charge
are they the same person?
if the answer is no then something has changed

Take my comments as literally as you like.

The business model of the franchise hasn't changed.

Clark still makes the same mistakes Lamar made - primarily, making poor use of limited funds. Spending money and draft picks poorly. Making bad hiring decisions.

Feel free to find someone that agrees with you.

[SAUTO]

Take my comments as literally as you like.

The business model of the franchise hasn't changed.

Clark still makes the same mistakes Lamar made - primarily, making poor use of limited funds. Spending money and draft picks poorly. Making bad hiring decisions.

Feel free to find someone that agrees with you.

who has clark hired that YOU think was a bad hiring decision?

lamar spent unwisely in FA. has clark?

clark doesnt make the draft picks either.

[KCbroncoHATER]

I think it has less to do with your approach to building a team, either through FA or the draft, as it has to do with not spending the full amount the NFL gives you on players. Better players cost more money or at least top of the line players charge more for their services. To have a better draft I would think you would have to spend more money on the scouts that pick the players. Whatever side you are on it still boils down to not spending $30 mil worth cap money.

The Chiefs kept $90 million of the money they should have spent on players over the last few years, what did he do with it? How much was his part of the construction project at Arrowhead? Was it $50 mil .... a $100 mil? I don't know but I am sure one of you will.

Make no mistake about it Lamar Hunt was cheap. He never upgraded anything at Arrowhead. Attractive locker rooms woooed free agents, he didn't care. I remember one coach who wouldn't coach here until they bought new weight sets. Hunt was a weird old dude. He didn't care about the chefs as much as he cared about the AFL and later the NFL over all.

jmo.

[Marcellus]

I wish we had Daniel Snyder as an owner, he isn't cheap, then we would have won a............oh, never mind.

I wish Al Davis was our owner, he isn't cheap, then we would.....oh never mind.(Only franchise to lose money as well)

Paul Allen of the Seahawks! Yea he isn't cheap they went to the SB a few years back right? And they have have been consistently winning that crappy division and that team is loaded with talent!....oh wait. Shit they are as bad off as KC and have shelled out the $.

Wake up folks. It ain't about the amount of $ you spend, it is about how you build a team. Remember the Hunt's have spent money to retain core star players over the years. DT, TG (had he wanted to stay $ wasn't the problem), Shields, Roaf, Holmes, Green, Kennison. They all got their $ when the time came. They paid LJ when they should have paid JA. That wasn't cheap it was CP being stupid.

All this talk about Clark and Lamar being cheap is retardo. We tried the other way spending tons of $ on FA's, it didn't work.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I wish we had Daniel Snyder as an owner, he isn't cheap, then we would have won a............oh, never mind.

I wish Al Davis was our owner, he isn't cheap, then we would.....oh never mind.(Only franchise to lose money as well)

Paul Allen of the Seahawks! Yea he isn't cheap they went to the SB a few years back right? And they have have been consistently winning that crappy division and that team is loaded with talent!....oh wait. Shit they are as bad off as KC and have shelled out the $.

Wake up folks. It ain't about the amount of $ you spend, it is about how you build a team. Remember the Hunt's have spent money to retain core star players over the years. DT, TG (had he wanted to stay $ wasn't the problem), Shields, Roaf, Holmes, Green, Kennison. They all got their $ when the time came. They paid LJ when they should have paid JA. That wasn't cheap it was CP being stupid.

All this talk about Clark and Lamar being cheap is retardo. We tried the other way spending tons of $ on FA's, it didn't work.

My point exactly, and what I've said from my first post in this thread.

The Hunts are not cheap. They just spend unwisely.

[SAUTO]

Take my comments as literally as you like.
.

this sentence if hilarious from the guy who calls ANYONE that assumes what something in his post means "Miss Cleo"


so would make otwp happy? for everyone to take every word literally, or to assume what you mean when you are somewhat vague?

[OnTheWarpath15]

who has clark hired that YOU think was a bad hiring decision?

lamar spent unwisely in FA. has clark?

clark doesnt make the draft picks either.

Jesus Christ. You really are this stupid, I've always thought it was your schtick.

Clark Hunt is responsible, directly or indirectly for every decision made at 1 Arrowhead Drive.

He's either made the poor decisions, or put the people in place that have made the poor decisions.

It ALL comes back to ownership.

Keeping CP for 20 years? Ownership.

Hiring Herm? Ownership.

Using draft picks as compensation for coaching hires? Ownership.

Hiring the man responsible for paying a career backup $15M per season? Ownership.

Putting people in place that value attitude over talent? Ownership.

Hiring another guy that believes in the good ole boy network. Ownership.

Allowing all of this to happen for 40 years. Ownership.

Never learning from 40 years of the same mistakes. Ownership.

[OnTheWarpath15]

this sentence if hilarious from the guy who calls ANYONE that assumes what something in his post means "Miss Cleo"


so would make otwp happy? for everyone to take every word literally, or to assume what you mean when you are somewhat vague?

You seem to be the only person that has an issue with it.

It wasn't vague in the slightest.

You're just too ignorant to read and comprehend things people post. And you seem to have a bigger issue with reading and comprehending when it's someone you don't like.

[SAUTO]

Jesus Christ. You really are this stupid, I've always thought it was your schtick.

Clark Hunt is responsible, directly or indirectly for every decision made at 1 Arrowhead Drive.

He's either made the poor decisions, or put the people in place that have made the poor decisions.

It ALL comes back to ownership.

Keeping CP for 20 years? Ownership. before clark

Hiring Herm? Ownership. Before clark

Using draft picks as compensation for coaching hires? Ownership. before clark

Hiring the man responsible for paying a career backup $15M per season? Ownership.

Putting people in place that value attitude over talent? Ownership.

Allowing all of this to happen for 40 years. Ownership.

clark has been totally in charge for what 3 years? 4? lets not just assume that he will do exactly what his dad did. as of RIGHT now he hasnt. lamar let CP spend foolishly in FA, clark hasnt done that up to this point.

[DeezNutz]

What's fucked up is that SAUTO is OTW's dupe.

It's one of the more impressively constructed charades in CP history.

[SAUTO]

You seem to be the only person that has an issue with it.

It wasn't vague in the slightest.

You're just too ignorant to read and comprehend things people post. And you seem to have a bigger issue with reading and comprehending when it's someone you don't like.


you fucking douche. i read EVERYTHING you have said.


saying nothing has changed when obviously clark hasnt been totally in charge for 40 years makes NO sense, no matter how many times you say it

[OnTheWarpath15]

What's fucked up is that SAUTO is OTW's dupe.

It's one of the more impressively constructed charades in CP history.

I couldn't even begin to figure out how to come across that ignorant.

[SAUTO]

I couldn't even begin to figure out how to come across that ignorant.

you do fine everyday.

clark has really run this franchise for 40 years?

[OnTheWarpath15]

clark has been totally in charge for what 3 years? 4? lets not just assume that he will do exactly what his dad did. as of RIGHT now he hasnt. lamar let CP spend foolishly in FA, clark hasnt done that up to this point.

You keep clinging to this idea of "before Clark."

When exactly do you think Clark started taking on responsibilities within the organization?

[OnTheWarpath15]

clark has really run this franchise for 40 years?

Thanks for proving my point for me.

[SAUTO]

You keep clinging to this idea of "before Clark."

When exactly do you think Clark started taking on responsibilities within the organization?

ROFL does it REALLY matter? all that really matters is when did he take over total control. THATS what you can judge him for IMO

[Titty Meat]

Sauto you're really a dumbass. I rarely agree with Deez & OTW however if this team is worse than 7-9 or 8-8 this year it must be widely accepted that Scott Pioli has failed as the GM.

[OnTheWarpath15]

ROFL does it REALLY matter? all that really matters is when did he take over total control. THATS what you can judge him for IMO

Your opinion means shit.

And for the record, he's been the Chairman of the Board, the highest position in the organization, since 2005, almost two full seasons before Lamar's death in December, 2006.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/front_office/clark_hunt

Clark Hunt enters his fifth season as Chairman of the Board in 2009.

2009. 2008. 2007. 2006. 2005. Five seasons.

So much for "before Clark."

Keeping CP for 2005, 2006, 2007. His call.

Hiring Herm. His call.

Allowing a draft pick to be used as compensation in hiring of Herm. His call.

Everything you wanted to give him a pass for because it was supposedly before his time?

Whoops.

[SAUTO]

Your opinion means shit.

And for the record, he's been the Chairman of the Board, the highest position in the organization, since 2005, almost two full years before Lamar's death.

So much for "before Clark."

Keeping CP for 2005, 2006, 2007. His call.

Hiring Herm. His call.

Allowing a draft pick to be used as compensation in hiring of Herm. His call.

Everything you wanted to give him a pass for because it was supposedly before his time?

Whoops.

so are you of the opinion that lamar had NO say in any of that? who was in charge? seems by your earlier post you were of the opinion that lamar was, now you want to move the posts again.

[DeezNutz]

I rarely agree with Deez & OTW.

You better check yourself, son. :)

[SAUTO]

Sauto you're really a dumbass. I rarely agree with Deez & OTW however if this team is worse than 7-9 or 8-8 this year it must be widely accepted that Scott Pioli has failed as the GM.

billy this means nothing coming from the guy who cant even spell his own name, oh and what does this coming years record have to do with this conversation?

[Titty Meat]

billy this means nothing coming from the guy who cant even spell his own name, oh and what does this coming years record have to do with this conversation?

Go shove your dick in the gas tank. Maybe that'll make you feel better about yourself.

[SAUTO]

Thanks for proving my point for me.

you are the one saying nothing has changed in 40 years, so i'm gonna assume that clark has run day to day operations since that point. i mean when have you ever been wrong:rolleyes:

[SAUTO]

Go shove your dick in the gas tank. Maybe that'll make you feel better about yourself.

billy i feel fine about myself. i'm not the one that has several running arguments in multiple threads EVERY FUCKING DAY. otpw sure does a good job of that.

[OnTheWarpath15]

so are you of the opinion that lamar had NO say in any of that? who was in charge? seems by your earlier post you were of the opinion that lamar was, now you want to move the posts again.

When have I EVER tried to distinguish who was actually calling the shots in this thread?

That's been your job. "Before Clark," remember?

I've said that Clark was being groomed to take over throughout the decade, and was given more responsibility year by year, eventually becoming the Chairman of the Board in 2005, BEFORE Lamar's death.

I'm not moving anything, dipshit. You just can't fucking read, or would rather choose not to so you can argue.

It's well known that Clark was given responsibility within the organization, but until he actually became Chairman in 2005, there's no telling who was actually calling the shots.

It changes nothing. He's ran the club the same way his old man has.

Everyone sees that but you.

[OnTheWarpath15]

you are the one saying nothing has changed in 40 years, so i'm gonna assume that clark has run day to day operations since that point. i mean when have you ever been wrong:rolleyes:

Wow.

I'm embarrassed for you.

[Titty Meat]

billy i feel fine about myself. i'm not the one that has several running arguments in multiple threads EVERY ****ING DAY. otpw sure does a good job of that.

A discussion is different than arguing. Go sit at the little kids table.

[rad]

you are the one saying nothing has changed in 40 years, so i'm gonna assume that clark has run day to day operations since that point. i mean when have you ever been wrong:rolleyes:

I think when OTWP says nothing has changed, he's talking about results. What is seen from the team now mirrors what it looked like 10 years ago. At least that's how I interpreted it.......I've been wrong before though.

[OnTheWarpath15]

A discussion is different than arguing. Go sit at the little kids table.

LMAO

Sauto still doesn't understand the use of all caps for emphasis, versus the impression you're yelling.

Pretty humorous coming from Captain Capslock himself, who's easily the most argumentative poster here. Nobody picks a nit quite like Sauto.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think when OTWP says nothing has changed, he's talking about results. What is seen from the team now mirrors what it looked like 10 years ago. At least that's how I interpreted it.......I've been wrong before though.

Holy shit, someone who isn't a complete fucktard understands.

I don't know how to say it any more clearly so he'll understand, I've said it numerous times.

The way the franchise has been run has not changed. Clark runs the ship the same way his old man did.

[SAUTO]

A discussion is different than arguing. Go sit at the little kids table.

well the argument starts with name calling, see where that began and rethink who needs to sit at the kids table.

BUT if you still insist you could try and put me there any time you would like douchebag
Posted via Mobile Device

[OnTheWarpath15]

well the argument starts with name calling, see where that began and rethink who needs to sit at the kids table.

BUT if you still insist you could try and put me there any time you would like douchebag
Posted via Mobile Device

No, the argument began with you being a fucktard. I agreed with you.

ROFL, yeah bringing in pioli was the cheapest thing he could do, hiring weis and crennel was the cheapest way to go, i'm sure. giving cassel 28 million guaranteed was the SURE sign of a cheapskate ( no matter if you agree with the decision or not). :rolleyes: paying chan AND herm and getting nothing out of the money SCREAMS cheap to me too. Just because some of you guys insist on saying this every day doesnt make it true

You make a good point.

Cheap isn't the word that should be used.

He's spending money, he's just spending it poorly, for the most part.

Finding value for the dollar has never been a strong suit of this organization, and definitely not in recent years.

Then you decide to go Full Retard and change to conversation to what YOU wanted, by limiting it specifically to the current FO regime.

what money spent from my post do you think was spent poorly? cassel aside?
so as of this point you believe pioli, weis, and crennel are poorly spent money?

And a nice little assumption to boot in the last sentence.

Nice work.

[Titty Meat]

well the argument starts with name calling, see where that began and rethink who needs to sit at the kids table.

BUT if you still insist you could try and put me there any time you would like douchebag
Posted via Mobile Device

Dumbass is a name that fits you well.

[SAUTO]

Wow.

I'm embarrassed for you.

wow dont be. im just fine. you say nothing has changed. things have.


again where has clark gone out and unwisely spent big FA dollars?

who bas he hired that was a waste of money??

all your issues stem from your hate of all things pioli.

i would give it up if this franchise i loved frustrated me as much as you are obviously frustrated with this franchise.

if you want things to be done your way buy a team
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

No, the argument began with you being a fucktard. I agreed with you.





Then you decide to go Full Retard and change to conversation to what YOU wanted, by limiting it specifically to the current FO regime.



And a nice little assumption to boot in the last sentence.

Nice work.

where in MY ORIGINAL POST did i reference anything prior to clark being in charge? you are the only one who brought any of that up.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

[QUOTE=OnTheWarpath58;65



And a nice little assumption to boot in the last sentence.

Nice work.[/QUOTE]

that was actually a question.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SDChiefs]

Holy shit, someone who isn't a complete ****tard understands.

I don't know how to say it any more clearly so he'll understand, I've said it numerous times.

The way the franchise has been run has not changed. Clark runs the ship the same way his old man did.

Soooooo, what youre trying to say is............ Damn, I lost it.:banghead:

[Ralphy Boy]

Jason & OTW58 you two need to get a room. You've completely hijacked a thread with your ridiculous argument.

[BossChief]

So, basically what you guys are saying is that there is absolutely no hope for the Chiefs to ever be good because whatever "it" is, we still dont have it and have no chance at getting it.

Got it.

[BossChief]

Jason & OTW58 you two need to get a room. You've completely hijacked a thread with your ridiculous argument.

LOL

[KCbroncoHATER]

As a season ticket holder I get upset when the team only wins a few games a season because they lack talent. By the team refusing to spend money on players to make more profit is lame at best when the owner is a billionaire.

I am starting to feel like a sucker because I keep falling for the same old crap. You old timers here know what I am talking about. Enjoying the 90's doesn't make it ok to spend another two decades sucking.

Clark Hunt and family own the team, if he cared at all he would be trying to win a SB instead of making a profit.

[OnTheWarpath15]

wow dont be. im just fine. you say nothing has changed. things have.


again where has clark gone out and unwisely spent big FA dollars?

who bas he hired that was a waste of money??

all your issues stem from your hate of all things pioli.

i would give it up if this franchise i loved frustrated me as much as you are obviously frustrated with this franchise.

if you want things to be done your way buy a team
Posted via Mobile Device

Hey, Ms. Cleo's back.

Where has Clark unwisely spent FA money? Notice you're again limiting the conversation "big" contracts and only FA's, ignoring the bad trades and hires.

Signed Sammy Knight to a 5-year deal.

Signed Kendrell Bell to a 7-year deal.

Approved a trade for Pat Surtain.

Who did he hire that was a waste of money?

Hired Herm Edwards.

Extended Carl Peterson's contract by 4 years.


Those are just off the top of my head.

[SAUTO]

LMAO

Sauto still doesn't understand the use of all caps for emphasis, versus the impression you're yelling.

Pretty humorous coming from Captain Capslock himself, who's easily the most argumentative poster here. Nobody picks a nit quite like Sauto.

lol hilarious, how many threads and how many posters have you argued with today? this week? this year? i guarantee its exponentially more than me
Posted via Mobile Device

[OnTheWarpath15]

Jason & OTW58 you two need to get a room. You've completely hijacked a thread with your ridiculous argument.

Don't blame me. Blame the dipshit that picks apart my posts looking for anything he can find to start an argument over.

It's been his MO for quite a while. Ask anyone.

[SAUTO]

Hey, Ms. Cleo's back.

Where has Clark unwisely spent FA money? Notice you're again limiting the conversation "big" contracts and only FA's, ignoring the bad trades and hires.

Signed Sammy Knight to a 5-year deal.

Signed Kendrell Bell to a 7-year deal.

Approved a trade for Pat Surtain.

Who did he hire that was a waste of money?

Hired Herm Edwards.

Extended Carl Peterson's contract by 4 years.


Those are just off the top of my head.

all while lamar was still alive, i understand why you want to change the conversation to the past. you cant win it without that. my first post talked about NOTHING prior to pioli being hired. read it again. why dont we live in the regime thats actually calling the shots RIGHT NOW?
Posted via Mobile Device

[OnTheWarpath15]

lol hilarious, how many threads and how many posters have you argued with today? this week? this year? i guarantee its exponentially more than me
Posted via Mobile Device

Again, you can't grasp the difference between having a discussion and having an argument.

I have discussions with knowledgeable people that bring something to the table.

I argue with dipshits like yourself that go out of their way to pick anything they can out of a post to stir shit.

Like you did today.

YOU steered the conversation to Pioli. Not me.

[Ralphy Boy]

Hey, Ms. Cleo's back.

Where has Clark unwisely spent FA money? Notice you're again limiting the conversation "big" contracts and only FA's, ignoring the bad trades and hires.

Signed Sammy Knight to a 5-year deal. Signed a player that his coaching staff wanted

Signed Kendrell Bell to a 7-year deal.Signed another player his coaching staff wanted

Approved a trade for Pat Surtain.Traded for a player his coaching staff wanted

Who did he hire that was a waste of money?

Hired Herm Edwards. Hired a head coach that his GM wanted

Extended Carl Peterson's contract by 4 years.Renewed a contract to a GM that put this team back on the map.


Those are just off the top of my head.

People can choose to remember whatever they want. Yeah Carl never won a Superbowl as GM, but it wasn't from a lack of trying to find the right coaching staff and players.

Regarding Knight, Bell & Surtain contracts: yes they overpaid players who were past their prime and Clark ultimately replaced Carl with Pioli. That is a HUGE change. Pioli's M.O. in NE was to NOT overpay aging vets so that is a significant change in philosophy and you seem to be completely glossing over it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

all while lamar was still alive, i understand why you want to change the conversation to the past. you cant win it without that. my first post talked about NOTHING prior to pioli being hired. read it again. why dont we live in the regime thats actually calling the shots RIGHT NOW?
Posted via Mobile Device

How am I changing anything, you fucking dolt?

My FIRST POST IN THE THREAD:

You make a good point.

Cheap isn't the word that should be used.

He's spending money, he's just spending it poorly, for the most part.

Finding value for the dollar has never been a strong suit of this organization, and definitely not in recent years.

As much as you want it to be true, I never distinguished between Lamar and Clark.

Probably because MY ENTIRE FUCKING POINT is that they both ran/run the organization the same way, and made/make the same mistakes, mostly regarding money, and finding value for the dollar.

I also never said a fucking peep about Pioli. You did, and you still are (why dont we live in the regime thats actually calling the shots?) trying to steer the conversation into the gutter, so you could jump on your soapbox about my "hate" for the current regime. But you found a way to do it anyway.

Typical.

So, since I've been talking about ownership this entire thread, would you like to continue discussing the Clark Hunt Regime, 2005-present?

Didn't think so.

[OnTheWarpath15]

People can choose to remember whatever they want. Yeah Carl never won a Superbowl as GM, but it wasn't from a lack of trying to find the right coaching staff and players.

Regarding Knight, Bell & Surtain contracts: yes they overpaid players who were past their prime and Clark ultimately replaced Carl with Pioli. That is a HUGE change. Pioli's M.O. in NE was to NOT overpay aging vets so that is a significant change in philosophy and you seem to be completely glossing over it.

No, they just overpay young career backups and ignore the concepts of value in the draft.

Mistakes that all come out of the owner's pockets.

[KCbroncoHATER]

You guys should start a thread about this and let us talk about how cheap Clark is on this one.

Thanks!

[OnTheWarpath15]

You guys should start a thread about this and let us talk about how cheap Clark is on this one.

Thanks!

Don't look at me, man.

I was doing just fine until this dipshit decided to start shit.

Hell, I even agreed with him. He had to try to make it about Pioli.

I'd ask him to put me on ignore, but he lives to pick apart my posts, take them as literally as possible, and try to get me to start a Pioli-hating session.

[KCbroncoHATER]

I quit reading what you were arguing about so what's you position on Clark and if he is cheap like his dad was.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I quit reading what you were arguing about so what's you position on Clark and if he is cheap like his dad was.


Post 18 in this thread, in response to post 16:

ROFL, yeah bringing in pioli was the cheapest thing he could do, hiring weis and crennel was the cheapest way to go, i'm sure. giving cassel 28 million guaranteed was the SURE sign of a cheapskate ( no matter if you agree with the decision or not). :rolleyes: paying chan AND herm and getting nothing out of the money SCREAMS cheap to me too. Just because some of you guys insist on saying this every day doesnt make it true

You make a good point.

Cheap isn't the word that should be used.

He's spending money, he's just spending it poorly, for the most part.

Finding value for the dollar has never been a strong suit of this organization, and definitely not in recent years.

[SAUTO]

Don't look at me, man.

I was doing just fine until this dipshit decided to start shit.

Hell, I even agreed with him. He had to try to make it about Pioli.

I'd ask him to put me on ignore, but he lives to pick apart my posts, take them as literally as possible, and try to get me to start a Pioli-hating session.

your first post was referencing my post in which i ONLY TALKED ABOUT THE FRANCHISE SINCE PIOLI WAS HIRED

i didnt steer amything, i just continued my original line of the conversation
Posted via Mobile Device

[OnTheWarpath15]

your first post was referencing my post in which i ONLY TALKED ABOUT THE FRANCHISE SINCE PIOLI WAS HIRED

i didnt steer amything, i just continued my original line of the conversation
Posted via Mobile Device

:facepalm:

[BossChief]

I still think we could have done well in the 2005 playoffs if we had not just added Surtain, but Law as well. Going 10-6 and missing the playoffs and seeing Pittsburg win it all from the 6th seed that year hurt.

I can say that was almost purely because of being cheap, I guess.

[go bo]

* * *
Hiring the man responsible for paying a career backup $15M per season? Ownership.* * *hmmm... wasn't trint a career backup before we used a first round pick to get him?

iirc, he was horrible before they got him a decent (all-world) left t...

give cassel a decent off line and he's a completely different qb, just like green was...

and didn't he do a pretty good job when he took over as the starter after pollard tried to kill brady?

he might turn out to be the steal of the century...

(well, a guy can hope, can't he?)

[DeezNutz]

hmmm... wasn't trint a career backup before we used a first round pick to get him?


No.

[KCbroncoHATER]

Yawn.

[go bo]

Go shove your dick in the gas tank. Maybe that'll make you feel better about yourself.i could lend you a match if you need one...

[go bo]

No.well, he played like one his first year he, didn't he?

[SAUTO]

:facepalm:

what??? you can face palm all you fucking want. hell your first post even said in recent years. how far back is recent to you? to me all that matters is the regime in charge right now and my first post reflects that. sorry if you would like to continue to cry about the past
Posted via Mobile Device

[OnTheWarpath15]

hmmm... wasn't trint a career backup before we used a first round pick to get him?

iirc, he was horrible before they got him a decent (all-world) left t...

give cassel a decent off line and he's a completely different qb, just like green was...

and didn't he do a pretty good job when he took over as the starter after pollard tried to kill brady?

he might turn out to be the steal of the century...

(well, a guy can hope, can't he?)

Cassel and Green are nothing alike.

Green has talent, for one.

But yeah, you can hope if you like. I prefer to be realistic about the limitations our so-called Franchise QB has, and why he can be surrounded by all the talent in the world (like he was in NE) and not be able to complete a pass over 10 yards.

The guy had the benefit of the best coaching, the best supporting cast, the benefit of having almost 60% of his passing yardage coming from Yards After Catch, (the average was around 40%) and still didn't get the job done.

So I guess if you're willing to wait for an elite team to be put around him so he might be successful, that's your prerogative.

Meanwhile, I'll wait for the organization to wise up, stop making the same mistake every 5 years and actually draft and develop a true franchise QB that elevates the play of those around him, instead of the other way around.

[SAUTO]

Cassel and Green are nothing alike.

Green has talent, for one.

But yeah, you can hope if you like. I prefer to be realistic about the limitations our so-called Franchise QB has, and why he can be surrounded by all the talent in the world (like he was in NE) and not be able to complete a pass over 10 yards.

The guy had the benefit of the best coaching, the best supporting cast, the benefit of having almost 60% of his passing yardage coming from Yards After Catch, (the average was around 40%) and still didn't get the job done.

So I guess if you're willing to wait for an elite team to be put around him so he might be successful, that's your prerogative.

Meanwhile, I'll wait for the organization to wise up, stop making the same mistake every 5 years and actually draft and develop a true franchise QB that elevates the play of those around him, instead of the other way around.

lol
Posted via Mobile Device

[DeezNutz]

lol
Posted via Mobile Device

What are you disagreeing with, SAUTO?

Saying that Cassel is a sub-par QB really isn't an arguable point.

[OnTheWarpath15]

what??? you can face palm all you fucking want. hell your first post even said in recent years. how far back is recent to you? to me all that matters is the regime in charge right now and my first post reflects that. sorry if you would like to continue to cry about the past
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm facepalming because you don't fucking get it.

This thread is about OWNERSHIP.

OWNERSHIP being cheap. (which I disagree with)

OWNERSHIP spending money poorly. (which I agree with)

It has NOTHING to do with Scott fucking Pioli and your quest to make sure everyone gives him a chance.

Like I said, you've went out of your way to make this about him, and it has nothing to do with it.

[OnTheWarpath15]

What are you disagreeing with, SAUTO?

Saying that Cassel is a sub-par QB really isn't an arguable point.

SAUTO would argue that the sun rises in the west if Mecca or I said otherwise.

[SAUTO]

What are you disagreeing with, SAUTO?

Saying that Cassel is a sub-par QB really isn't an arguable point.

laughing because i said earlier that it seems like the movie groundhog day here with the same people bitching about the samd shit over and over.

and i also ask how taking a team to 11-5 isnt "getting it done"
Posted via Mobile Device

[OnTheWarpath15]

laughing because i said earlier that it seems like the movie groundhog day here with the same people bitching about the samd shit over and over.

and i also ask how taking a team to 11-5 isnt "getting it done"
Posted via Mobile Device

Is the goal to go 11-5, or is the goal to make the playoffs and ultimately win the Super Bowl?

If you need help, feel free to Phone-A-Friend. Jim Caldwell could give you the answer.

And he asked me a question, I'm responding.

Don't like it?

Put me on ignore. Please.

[SAUTO]

What are you disagreeing with, SAUTO?

Saying that Cassel is a sub-par QB really isn't an arguable point.

i said earlier that this place has turned into groundhog day with the same people bitching about the same shit over and over and over


oh and about how taking the pats to 11-5 wasnt "getting it done"
Posted via Mobile Device

[DeezNutz]

laughing because i said earlier that it seems like the movie groundhog day here with the same people bitching about the samd shit over and over.

and i also ask how taking a team to 11-5 isnt "getting it done"
Posted via Mobile Device

i said earlier that this place has turned into groundhog day with the same people bitching about the same shit over and over and over

oh and about how taking the pats to 11-5 wasnt "getting it done"
Posted via Mobile Device

If the above was intentional, it's the funniest thing you've posted.

My guess is that you just groundhogged yourself, though. Never go full groundhog full groundhog.

[Mecca]

You know why the Chiefs haven't been as active in FA in recent years as they were in say 2003?

It's not because Clark is different than Lamar, it's because the Chiefs operate on a budget and the top 5 pick makes a shit ton more money than than picking 20th.

[ChiefsCountry]

You know what is really sad - Mark Sanchez has more playoff wins than all Chiefs QBs sans Len Dawson. And Joe Montana (who is #2 in Chiefs history with 2)

Fuck that should tell you something isn't right with our organzation. From ownership to the players nobody is getting the job done.

[SAUTO]

I'm facepalming because you don't fucking get it.

This thread is about OWNERSHIP.

OWNERSHIP being cheap. (which I disagree with)

OWNERSHIP spending money poorly. (which I agree with)

It has NOTHING to do with Scott fucking Pioli and your quest to make sure everyone gives him a chance.

Like I said, you've went out of your way to make this about him, and it has nothing to do with it.

actually the thread is about free agency. i didnt go out of my way to do anything, i posted about what has happened since CP was let go. you responded. i asked what money was spent poorly, now common sense would say that i was talking about since CP left. thats why i asked if you thought pioli weis crennel were wasted money. actually i even said lets leave cassel out because we ALL know how you feel about him. you are the one who insist on crying about shit that has nothing to do with right now


also it was my understanding that pioli is calling the shots personnel wise not clark, just likw CP. you are acting as though clark is out actually scouting players
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

If the above was intentional, it's the funniest thing you've posted.

My guess is that you just groundhogged yourself, though. Never go full groundhog full groundhog.

fully intentional, i actually typed it twice
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

To this point you could easily argue all the money Pioli has spent has been foolish.

[SAUTO]

You know what is really sad - Mark Sanchez has more playoff wins than all Chiefs QBs sans Len Dawson. And Joe Montana (who is #2 in Chiefs history with 2)

Fuck that should tell you something isn't right with our organzation. From ownership to the players nobody is getting the job done.

lol it always comes back to this...

that team won most of its games IN SPITE OF SANCHEZ.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DeezNutz]

fully intentional, i actually typed it twice
Posted via Mobile Device

Well done, dude. Funny stuff.

[DeezNutz]

lol it always comes back to this...

that team won most of its games IN SPITE OF SANCHEZ.
Posted via Mobile Device

Not in the playoffs.

I'm not saying he put the team on his back, but the wins weren't "in spite" of him. Far from it. He made plays.

[SAUTO]

Well done, dude. Funny stuff.

thats some groundhog day shit right there
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

Sanchez actually played quite well in the playoffs, his game against the Colts was as good as you can ask for from a rookie QB.

[SAUTO]

Not in the playoffs.

I'm not saying he put the team on his back, but the wins weren't "in spite" of him. Far from it. He made plays.

hence the word most, even in the playoffs he didnt light the world on fire though. he made some plays but the teams were obviously trying to stop that 1 rushing attack, 8 or 9 on the box sure helps huh?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

Well hey having a rushing attack didn't do the trick for our guy, he actually got worse.

[DeezNutz]

hence the word most, even in the playoffs he didnt light the world on fire though. he made some plays but the teams were obviously trying to stop that 1 rushing attack, 8 or 9 on the box sure helps huh?
Posted via Mobile Device

While I agree that he wasn't necessarily the focus for opposing defenses, he made some sick ****ing throws on the biggest stage. Throws, quite frankly, that Cassel isn't capable of making.

The kid played really well. There's just no taking that away from him.

[OnTheWarpath15]

actually the thread is about free agency. i didnt go out of my way to do anything, i posted about what has happened since CP was let go. you responded. i asked what money was spent poorly, now common sense would say that i was talking about since CP left. thats why i asked if you thought pioli weis crennel were wasted money. actually i even said lets leave cassel out because we ALL know how you feel about him. you are the one who insist on crying about shit that has nothing to do with right now


also it was my understanding that pioli is calling the shots personnel wise not clark, just likw CP. you are acting as though clark is out actually scouting players
Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah, the thread and article it's based on has nothing to do with ownership. That's why they interviewed Clark Hunt, and Clark Hunt alone for the stor...

Whoops.

And again reading is fundamental.

If you had paid attention, I said NUMEROUS times that directly or indirectly, Clark is making the decisions.

You understand the indirect aspect, or do you need that spelled out for you?

Way to turn an article and thread about FA from the owner's perspective (which leads to the thread topic, "is he cheap") into your typical personal Pioli defense chant of "give him time."

[OnTheWarpath15]

While I agree that he wasn't necessarily the focus for opposing defenses, he made some sick ****ing throws on the biggest stage. Throws, quite frankly, that Cassel isn't capable of making.

The kid played really well. There's just no taking that away from him.

Fuck you Deez, he sucked.

A combined 60.2 completion percentage, 4 TD's/2 INT's and a 92.7 QB rating in the playoffs - along with a 2-1 record.

Terrible.

[DeezNutz]

**** you Deez, he sucked.

A combined 60.2 completion percentage, 4 TD's/2 INT's and a 92.7 QB rating in the playoffs - along with a 2-1 record.

Terrible.

Sigh.

As I said this preseason, I've been reduced to hoping for some untended, blessed consequence for our epic disaster in the spring of '09.

[RedThat]

I can see the Chiefs modelling teams like the Steelers, or Colts who rely mostly on the draft and not so much on FA.

Don't mind this approach at all, realistically, it is the most sensible approach if they're thinking long-term. However, what concerns me, is their inability to draft. I look at the Chiefs past history and I see a lot poor drafts. That doesn't bode well if you plan on building your team through the draft. Hopefully, they could improve in that aspect with the addition of a new scouting staff. They're going to need to if they want to move forward.

Adding a good veteran coaching staff could possibly pay dividends down the road as far as player development goes.

*Yeah, as a Chiefs fan those are the two things I'd keep a close eye on. The scouting staffs ability to evaluate and recruit players, and the coaching staffs ability in developing players along the way.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I can see the Chiefs modelling teams like the Steelers, or Colts who rely mostly on the draft and not so much on FA.

Don't mind this approach at all, realistically, it is the most sensible approach if they're thinking long-term. However, what concerns me, is their inability to draft. I look at the Chiefs past history and I see a lot poor drafts. That doesn't bode well if you plan on building your team through the draft. Hopefully, they could improve in that aspect with the addition of a new scouting staff. They're going to need to if they want to move forward.

Adding a good veteran coaching staff could possibly pay dividends down the road as far as player development goes.

*Yeah, as a Chiefs fan those are the two things I'd keep a close eye on. The scouting staffs ability to evaluate and recruit players, and the coaching staffs ability in developing players along the way.

You're right. It is by far the best approach.

But as you said, it's nothing if you can't draft.

That's what makes the Colts special.

Cut Edge James?

Next man up. Draft Addai.

Marvin Harrison leaves?

Next man up. Pierre Garcon steps in and the offense doesn't miss a beat.

Anthony Gonzalez gets hurt early in the season?

Next man up. Austin Collie does the same.

Same thing will happen if Freeney can't go Sunday. Raheem Brock will step in and get the job done.

While they are hitting on almost all of their draft picks yearly, with backups stepping in and getting the job done, we struggle to find starters to get the job done, much less backups.

[Craash]

You're right. It is by far the best approach.

But as you said, it's nothing if you can't draft.

That's what makes the Colts special.

Cut Edge James?

Next man up. Draft Addai.

Marvin Harrison leaves?

Next man up. Pierre Garcon steps in and the offense doesn't miss a beat.

Anthony Gonzalez gets hurt early in the season?

Next man up. Austin Collie does the same.

Same thing will happen if Freeney can't go Sunday. Raheem Brock will step in and get the job done.

While they are hitting on almost all of their draft picks yearly, with backups stepping in and getting the job done, we struggle to find starters to get the job done, much less backups.

Goodness. I've been here a long time and have never said . . .

Thread OVER!

[Mecca]

If you wanted to be like the Steelers or Colts we probably should have hired someone from there...

[chiefs1111]

If you wanted to be like the Steelers or Colts we probably should have hired someone from there...

well when Carl was fired I was hoping the Chiefs would hire Chris Polian. I am not sure if he would of taken the Chiefs job though. I think he's waiting for his father to retire and take over for the Colts.

[Titty Meat]

I seem to remember the Patriots winning a super bowl with Troy Brown playing CB. Hows that for maning up?

[milkman]

Anybody who read this story and came out with "Clark is cheap" is simply pushing their agenda.

“I would think numerically we’ll be very active,” Hunt said. “I can’t say specifically we’d sign what’s regarded as a high-priced or high-demand free agent. We’ll certainly look at every one of those players. (General manager Scott Pioli) has my blessing to pursue them if he thinks they’re the right fit for the football team.”

God forbid if we don't go pay too much money for shit FA's like we did in the past....K.Bell, N.Harris, Surtain, Edwards, McGlockton etc... that woudl mean Clark is cheap.

Now everyone who said you build a team through the draft are pissing and moaning because we aren't willing to break the bank on...who do we need to break the bank on again? Who is available that we must have?

The comments about Clark being cheap are as stupid as the arguments against bringing Crennel in here. Plenty of bitching but no alternative offered or resonable option given.

Exactly who do you guy want to spend the big $ on? Did you even look at the available FA list? Are you paying attention?

We actually found something we agree on.

I still believe that building your core through the draft is the right way to build, using free agency as a means ot fill just a couple of holes.

I'm pretty happy that Hunt feels the same.

It's just a shame that I don't believe he hired the right guy to do the building.

[milkman]

I guess I am stupid

Good guess.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

For an average of 18th. I wonder what our market ranks. And I wonder where our Front office, and Coaching staff ranks right now.
It's no secret that our Payroll is really low right now, as a rebuilding team should be.
let's not forget that we are in the 41st season of a complete rebuild.

:shrug:

Why do people not want to admit how mismanaged this organization has been and how it starts with the ownership? The Hunts don't give a fuck about Kansas City.

40 years of suck, and there's one constant.

Not sure how people want to just gloss over that.

:shrug:

Good guess.

LMAO

[milkman]

i said earlier that this place has turned into groundhog day with the same people bitching about the same shit over and over and over


oh and about how taking the pats to 11-5 wasnt "getting it done"
Posted via Mobile Device

People are complaining about the same shit over and over because the same shit we've been bitching about has been happening, over and over.

[RustShack]

If you wanted to be like the Steelers or Colts we probably should have hired someone from there...

Like Todd and Dick Haley?

[the Talking Can]

You're right. It is by far the best approach.

But as you said, it's nothing if you can't draft.

That's what makes the Colts special.

Cut Edge James?

Next man up. Draft Addai.

Marvin Harrison leaves?

Next man up. Pierre Garcon steps in and the offense doesn't miss a beat.

Anthony Gonzalez gets hurt early in the season?

Next man up. Austin Collie does the same.

Same thing will happen if Freeney can't go Sunday. Raheem Brock will step in and get the job done.

While they are hitting on almost all of their draft picks yearly, with backups stepping in and getting the job done, we struggle to find starters to get the job done, much less backups.


that's nice and all, but the only player that matters for the Colts is manning

without him, none of those picks are worth a shit and they have one of the worst teams in the league....and their defense until this year has mostly been average to out right ****ing terrible, which doesn't say much for their ballyhooed daft picks....but you can have a shit sucking defense when you're QB is basically jesus


so it's great to pretend they have a magic system and oh we should rhetorically claim to be the colts instead of rhetorically claiming to be the pats, but until we draft a hall of fame QB it is self serving nonsense to claim one has a superior "idea" by claiming the colt's "way" over the patriots "way" (or vice versa)...especially when the pats way has been more successful...and the pats "way" being more successful can't be argued....they walked all over manning and the "colt's way" on their trip to 4 superbowls....

[The Bad Guy]

that's nice and all, but the only player that matters for the Colts is manning

without him, none of those picks are worth a shit and they have one of the worst teams in the league....and their defense until this year has mostly been average to out right ****ing terrible, which doesn't say much for their ballyhooed daft picks....but you can have a shit sucking defense when you're QB is basically jesus


so it's great to pretend they have a magic system and oh we should rhetorically claim to be the colts instead of rhetorically claiming to be the pats, but until we draft a hall of fame QB it is self serving nonsense to claim one has a superior "idea" by claiming the colt's "way" over the patriots "way" (or vice versa)...especially when the pats way has been more successful...and the pats "way" being more successful can't be argued....they walked all over manning and the "colt's way" on their trip to 4 superbowls....

Spot on.

Peyton is the one who coaches these offensive players up and in film study and prep work, he gets them more ready than anyone could. Take Peyton out of the equation, and Garcon is 4th or 5th on some teams depth chart.

By saying their system is so fool proof is essentially saying that this system can work with Manning out. It can't work without him. It also minimizes the impact of Clark and Wayne, who really take all the pressure off Collie and Garcon.

If Peyton Manning retired or left the Colts, they'd be drafting in the top 10

[milkman]

Spot on.

Peyton is the one who coaches these offensive players up and in film study and prep work, he gets them more ready than anyone could. Take Peyton out of the equation, and Garcon is 4th or 5th on some teams depth chart.

By saying their system is so fool proof is essentially saying that this system can work with Manning out. It can't work without him. It also minimizes the impact of Clark and Wayne, who really take all the pressure off Collie and Garcon.

If Peyton Manning retired or left the Colts, they'd be drafting in the top 10

I disagree.

While Manning is the reason they are perennial contenders, another good QB still makes them a .500 team, or better.

The guys they have drafted are good players, and to dismiss the talent they have drafted simply cause Manning is the QB is undervaluing that talent.

[notorious]

You're right. It is by far the best approach.

But as you said, it's nothing if you can't draft.

That's what makes the Colts special.

Cut Edge James?

Next man up. Draft Addai.

Marvin Harrison leaves?

Next man up. Pierre Garcon steps in and the offense doesn't miss a beat.

Anthony Gonzalez gets hurt early in the season?

Next man up. Austin Collie does the same.

Same thing will happen if Freeney can't go Sunday. Raheem Brock will step in and get the job done.

While they are hitting on almost all of their draft picks yearly, with backups stepping in and getting the job done, we struggle to find starters to get the job done, much less backups.



What makes all of those players look good?



The man taking the snaps. If they don't have him, almost all of the players you just listed fade into NFL history.


Franchise QB is everything.


EDIT: Talking Can beats me to the punch once AGAIN. :)

[The Bad Guy]

I disagree.

While Manning is the reason they are perennial contenders, another good QB still makes them a .500 team, or better.

The guys they have drafted are good players, and to dismiss the talent they have drafted simply cause Manning is the QB is undervaluing that talent.

We can agree to disagree. I have my doubts that another good QB could put those guys in the positions they need to be to get open pre-snap, and to read the defense as if you are the defensive coordinator.

The impact Peyton Manning has had on this game is like none I've ever seen before.

[milkman]

Further, I think that Tom Moore is an underrated OC because of Manning.

But think about this for a second.

In Manning's 12(?) years in the league, he has never worked with any other OC.

Has there ever been another QB who has worked with the same OC for the entirety of his career?

[The Bad Guy]

Further, I think that Tom Moore is an underrated OC because of Manning.

But think about this for a second.

In Manning's 12(?) years in the league, he has never worked with any other OC.

Has there ever been another QB who has worked with the same OC for the entirety of his career?

Continuity helps. However, Moore is not out there making the pre-snap reads, or basicaly calling out exactly what the defense is doing.

Channing Crowder was on Sirius the other day. He said in the Dolphins game, Manning was yelling out pre-snap reads about what Crowder was going to do when it was an entirely new blitz scheme installed that week in practice.

You just can't coach things like that. He's a revolutionary QB in that sense.

[milkman]

Continuity helps. However, Moore is not out there making the pre-snap reads, or basicaly calling out exactly what the defense is doing.

Channing Crowder was on Sirius the other day. He said in the Dolphins game, Manning was yelling out pre-snap reads about what Crowder was going to do when it was an entirely new blitz scheme installed that week in practice.

You just can't coach things like that. He's a revolutionary QB in that sense.

I understand that.

However, I'm not talking about some scrub QB Jim Sorgi in place Manning.

They may not be a consistent 12 game winner with a Tom Brady, a (healthy) Matt Haselbeck, or even guys like Drew Bledsoe or Trent Green, but they would still win 7-10 games.

Marvin Harrison, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Edgerrin James and that (underrated) O-Line, are all guys with talent.

Does Manning make some of them better than they would be with another QB?

Sure.

But the fact remains, they have some talent.

[the Talking Can]

I disagree.

While Manning is the reason they are perennial contenders, another good QB still makes them a .500 team, or better.

The guys they have drafted are good players, and to dismiss the talent they have drafted simply cause Manning is the QB is undervaluing that talent.

they have some good talent

but without Manning, their OL, running game, and defense become much bigger issues....He's the reason they give up so few sacks, he is the reason their pathetic run game and run blocking can be pathetic without costing them games...and until this year, he's been the reason they won in spite of their defense...


and anyways, so what if they'd win a few more regular season games than someone else....as we have all agreed here since Marty, winning regular season games without a real shot at winning a title is pointless...

the only "way" is the "find a great QB" way....after that you can use FA or the draft and build a championship team, as the pats and colts have proven...

oh, and we have Matt Cassel as our QB....and now I'm going to search for some hamas worthy gif to post to punish myself for caring...

edit*

not meaning to lecture, as if you don't already know any of this...but it's raining on a saturday

[milkman]

they have some good talent

but without Manning, their OL, running game, and defense become much bigger issues....He's the reason they give up so few sacks, he is the reason their pathetic run game and run blocking can be pathetic without costing them games...and until this year, he's been the reason they won in spite of their defense...


and anyways, so what if they'd win a few more regular season games than someone else....as we have all agreed here since Marty, winning regular season games without a real shot at winning a title is pointless...

the only "way" is the "find a great QB" way....after that you can use FA or the draft and build a championship team, as the pats and colts have proven...

oh, and we have Matt Cassel as our QB....and now I'm going to search for some hamas worthy gif to post to punish myself for caring...

edit*

not meaning to lecture, as if you don't already know any of this...but it's raining on a saturday

I'm not debating whether the Colts would be a SB team without Manning.

Lord knows how I've argued for a franchise QB to put the Chiefs in position to be a true upper echelon team.

The point I'm debating is the contention that the Colts would be drafting in the top 10 every year without Manning.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I disagree.

While Manning is the reason they are perennial contenders, another good QB still makes them a .500 team, or better.

The guys they have drafted are good players, and to dismiss the talent they have drafted simply cause Manning is the QB is undervaluing that talent.

This.

[The Bad Guy]

I'm going to make this my last post on this subject because I feel it's going round and round and neither side is going to budge.

Just a good QB, one in the 15-20 range in this league is not taking this Colts team to 10 wins. No way. That line is really horrible without Peyton behind center. The running backs have talent, I agree. However, without the threat of Peyton, it turns into a whole new game.

I just think Peyton Manning is an out of this world player who turns everything around him into gold. I think the Colts have done a great job finding players that fit around him. But honestly, you'd have to be a very, very one-dimensional player not to fit with him.

[mcaj22]

I'm going to make this my last post on this subject because I feel it's going round and round and neither side is going to budge.

Just a good QB, one in the 15-20 range in this league is not taking this Colts team to 10 wins. No way. That line is really horrible without Peyton behind center. The running backs have talent, I agree. However, without the threat of Peyton, it turns into a whole new game.

I just think Peyton Manning is an out of this world player who turns everything around him into gold. I think the Colts have done a great job finding players that fit around him. But honestly, you'd have to be a very, very one-dimensional player not to fit with him.



The Colts definitely have probably a top 10 offensive line in the NFL right now easy. I get that Peyton gets the ball off quick so that reduces the sack count tenfold. I get that any other QB in there would just curl up as a fetus and take the hit, thus the sack count would probably have been x5 or x10 of what it was this season with Peyton in there.

But they do run a system and a scheme, like most good teams, where they can plug in smart players to get the job done like people have already said. What makes their line good is it's a system and a scheme where they are using their brains more than their physical tools and that still takes some talent in my opinion. I definitely think that team wins 10 games easy with pretty much any average NFL QB. Especially this past season, where the defense finally caught up to the offense. They also had an easy schedule this year against NFC west and the average play from their divisional opponents. Peyton is definitely great, but I wouldn't dismiss the talent of the rest of that team. I'd take any of their defensive starters or second stringers in a second to play for the Chiefs.

[Titty Meat]

Jim Caldwell is a underrated talent evalutator. The dude recruited Chris Leak when he was in middle school when Caldwell was at Wake Forest.

[The Bad Guy]

I also think Jim Caldwell has stepped into the greatest coaching situation in the history of the league.

[milkman]

I also think Jim Caldwell has stepped into the greatest coaching situation in the history of the league.

I also think that Jim Caldwell adds a dimension of toughness to the Colts that they didn't have under Dungy.

Dungy is the single most overrarted coach ever.

[the Talking Can]

I also think that Jim Caldwell adds a dimension of toughness to the Colts that they didn't have under Dungy.

Dungy is the single most overrarted coach ever.

i don't think it is a fluke that their defense is better....

[OnTheWarpath15]

I also think that Jim Caldwell adds a dimension of toughness to the Colts that they didn't have under Dungy.

Dungy is the single most overrarted coach ever.

i don't think it is a fluke that their defense is better....

Agree with both of you.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

that's nice and all, but the only player that matters for the Colts is manning

Spot on.



ROFL

Some people call him "Maurice"(weeeeeeee-weow!)
-The Choker.