Babb: Chiefs’ Cassel back to work

[Tribal Warfare]

Chiefs’ Cassel back to work (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1746815.html)
By KENT BABB
The Kansas City Star

Matt Cassel rubbed his eyes with his fingers when he talked about last week’s Super Bowl. He watched it at home, the same as so many of us.

Cassel has been part of a Super Bowl, a backup quarterback in 2008, when New England lost to the New York Giants. Cassel said the memory of that game makes it no easier for him to admit that, now that he’s the starting quarterback for the Chiefs, another title-game appearance seems little more than a fantasy.

“I’ll catch myself thinking about that stuff,” he said last week at Chiefs headquarters, “playing in that big game, making the big throw. I go through it in my mind constantly.”

He said he wants to make it seem more like reality. The Chiefs have won 10 games in the past three seasons, but Cassel said that hasn’t discouraged him. That’s why he took maybe one week off after Kansas City’s season ended last month. He rested for a few days, and then his mind began to wander again.

His body followed, and it led him to his car, and that took him to Chiefs headquarters. He watched game footage from the season, a particularly cruel thing for a man to do to himself. Then he went upstairs to meet with coach Todd Haley. Later, he’d meet with new offensive coordinator Charlie Weis, and they’d talk about the plays and the schemes that might help them all scratch an itch that doesn’t just go away.

When Cassel’s teammates scattered to their hometowns, Cassel passed on escaping to his native California and instead remained in Kansas City.

“My home,” he said. “This is where I live.”

While others let their bodies heal, Cassel spent mornings in his neighborhood’s gym. Then, because in his mind there’s little else to do but prepare for games still months away, he heads to the practice facility.

It was nearly a year ago that the Chiefs committed to Cassel, and he said that it’s only right that he returns the favor. His story is famous now, how he barely played in college or in his first three NFL seasons, before Tom Brady’s knee gave out in the 2008 season opener.

He won 10 games as a starter, and that made life hectic and interesting for Cassel. He was in a bookstore on a Saturday morning last February, and his cell phone received no signal. He missed the calls telling him his life was changing, and it wasn’t until he stepped outside that Cassel’s brother got through, telling him that he was headed to Kansas City.

In an instant, Cassel’s life simplified and became complicated all at once. He no longer had to worry about resuming his life as Brady’s backup, but now his shoulders would carry a new burden: of being the face of a franchise in turmoil.

“A very difficult set of circumstances,” Haley said this week. “A totally new situation.”

Months later, it happened again. Cassel signed a six-year contract extension, financial security for a player who, when his career was lagging in New England, pondered a future in commercial real estate after he and football finally had enough of each other. The contract provided money and assurances that Cassel was Kansas City’s man. But with the contract came expectations and pressure, and Cassel would be dishonest if he said that he made it look easy.

“We went through our growing pains and our adjustment periods,” he said. “We played good football collectively at times, and there are other times that maybe we weren’t on the same page, or I’m thinking somebody’s doing this; they’re doing that. We weren’t meshing like we need to.”

But the important thing was that Cassel was getting comfortable. He was getting to know his new teammates, and he was learning the offense.

“It starts to become second nature,” he said.

He was performing his repetitions, memorizing his assignments, finding a rhythm in offseason practices and in training camp, and …

Haley trashed the playbook. Thirteen days before the season began, it all changed. Chan Gailey was fired as offensive coordinator, and Haley altered everything that Cassel had spent months learning. He admitted last week that Haley’s decision tested the offense like nothing had, and that burden on Cassel’s shoulders started feeling heavier.

He said a quarterback’s efficiency relies on comfort and familiarity. If one term that describes one play is changed, a passer’s mind needs time to adjust. He said the first games of 2009 were like a math test, only right before it begins, the professor tells the class that every 2 on the test now means 4.

“It might not process as quickly as you thought it would,” he said. “Now you have to retrain your brain.”

While Cassel worked on that, he was sacked 42 times, threw 16 interceptions and fumbled 14 times. Two of those interceptions came on a day that Cassel had been looking forward to for months. The Chiefs were playing Denver at Arrowhead Stadium, and the Broncos’ coach is Josh McDaniels. Cassel and McDaniels worked together in New England, and Cassel was looking forward to showing his mentor how much he’d grown. Instead, McDaniels’ team thrashed the Chiefs 44-13, and Cassel was benched after completing 10 of 29 passes.

He went home that night and wondered how his future might play out. Sometimes Cassel talks to his wife about his frustrations. Sometimes he just keeps quiet and lets his mind wander.

“You think about all the plays that you missed or could’ve done better,” he said. “You feel like you’re making progress and going in the right direction.”

Cassel said he woke early the next morning and, because there wasn’t much else to do, he headed to the stadium. He sat through footage from the previous day and met with coaches to talk about the things he needed to improve.

Cassel didn’t miss another offensive snap in the Chiefs’ final four contests. He even beat McDaniels and his Broncos in the season’s final week. Haley said he respected the way Cassel responded to the first Denver game. He admired the way Cassel made it through a chaotic season that started long before the games did.

“Matt came into that situation, fought his way through and continued to show improvement,” Haley said. “He weathered the storm. He survived it. Adversity makes the man, so to speak. It will have a great impact on Matt, the fact that he was able to get through a year like last year.”

Cassel sat in a room at Chiefs headquarters last week and smiled. He said it would be a welcome change to have a full offseason in one place, with one team, with one offense to study. He said the routine will benefit the Chiefs, and he said Kansas City might even exceed expectations in 2010.

“The prospect of going out and doing something that hasn’t been done in a long time,” he said, “that’s what our main goal is. And I think that we’re close. We’ll have the opportunity to do that sooner than later.”

Cassel said he would find time to relax this offseason, and he planned to visit family in California this month. But before he goes, there is work to be done. It was about 1 p.m. on a Wednesday, and he was just getting started.

His morning workout behind him, he was headed upstairs to meet with coaches. If they had a project for Cassel to start on, he said he would take it on. If there were new concepts they wanted him to start thinking about, he said he’d plant them in his mind.

He said there’s no better time than the offseason to establish chemistry and understanding with his coaches, and find ways that they might someday all make it back to the Super Bowl.

“It’ll be great once we get this thing headed in the right direction,” Cassel said. “Things are going to be tough. I mean, my whole career has been faced with adversity.

“I’ve always had to fight for everything, and it’s one of those things that adversity comes, and then it’ll go. And you know that the next day will be a lot better.”

[Tribal Warfare]

A new scheme won't be factor when he makes piss poor decisions on the field during games.

[Huffman83]

I now know that I've been on this website long enough when I see a hopeful feel good piece like that to bring my excitement for the next NFL season. And I think it's all bullshit.

[the Talking Can]

“Matt came into that situation, fought his way through and continued to show improvement,” Haley said.

Last 5 games:

Den: 14.6 QB rating - 34.5 comp % - 84 yards - 0tds - 2ints

Buf: 35.4 QB rating - 60.5 comp % - 224 yards - 0tds - 4ints

Cle: 99.1 QB rating - 55 comp % - 331 yards - 2tds - 0ints

Cin: 58.4 QB rating - 59.5 comp % - 180 yards -1td - 2ints

Den: 65.8 QB rating - 54.2 comp % - 207 yards - 0td - 1ints

[Mecca]

I'd like to know how he showed improvement when he was giving a running game he actually got worse.

[Titty Meat]

A new scheme won't be factor when he makes piss poor decisions on the field during games.

Did he do that in New England?

[Titty Meat]

I'd like to know how he showed improvement when he was giving a running game he actually got worse.

Wasn't it you talking about Troy Aikmen and saying how stats are misleading in football?

[Tribal Warfare]

Did he do that in New England?

Cassel had Randy Moss a FHOF, and Welker a probowler who inflate his stats with YAC.

Due to his weak arm ,and his inability to make proper reads a new scheme won't help him. A 28 year old QB isn't like a 23 year old rookie, where they are just entering the league and adjusting to the speed of the game. Cassel has bad habits that will make it 10 times as hard to alterations with his reads going up against the same competition. He was suppose to be a finished product, and that's why Pioli traded for him

[Titty Meat]

Cassel had Randy Moss a FHOF, and Welker a probowler who inflate his stats with YAC

So thats what the talking point will be if Cassel improves this year. Got it.

[Mecca]

Wasn't it you talking about Troy Aikmen and saying how stats are misleading in football?

Uh there's a huge difference in not having gigantic stats and doing what Cassel was doing, you've watched them right?

Matt Cassel can't sniff Aikman's jock when it comes to throwing passes.

[Mecca]

So thats what the talking point will be if Cassel improves this year. Got it.

His point is actually correct Cassel had a ton of yards come on passes completed behind the LOS.

[Titty Meat]

Uh there's a huge difference in not having gigantic stats and doing what Cassel was doing, you've watched them right?

Matt Cassel can't sniff Aikman's jock when it comes to throwing passes.

I never said Cassel was anything like Aikman. However I think for the most part Cassel played pretty good aginst Denver though his stats weren't great. He completed some deep balls which you said he couldn't do. I mean talk about beating a dead horse really.

[Mecca]

I was overly impressed that he completed 1 long pass, it really means he can do it right I mean after going a big 2-29 at it the year before and sucking the entire season at it, but hey 1 throw.

[Tribal Warfare]

So thats what the talking point will be if Cassel improves this year. Got it.

Like I said he won't improve due to his age and his bad habits

[Titty Meat]

I was overly impressed that he completed 1 long pass, it really means he can do it right I mean after going a big 2-29 at it the year before and sucking the entire season at it, but hey 1 throw.

He completed more than just 1 long pass but please continue to take everything out of context to fit your diatribe.

[Mecca]

You know what Matt Cassel is good at?

Somhow hitting the crossbar from 30 yards out.

[Fish]

Cassel: Coach Weis, it's great to meet you. I'm really looking forwar

Weis: [interrupting] I'm not speaking to you until Jimmy is off the board. Good day.

[DaneMcCloud]

I wish there was a way I could completely and utterly suckass at my job and still make $28 MILLION in a single year.

Job openings?

Anyone?

[Mecca]

I wish there was a way I could completely and utterly suckass at my job and still make $28 MILLION in a single year.

Job openings?

Anyone?

And then have your boss say that you are doing a fine job and getting better?

[DaWolf]

The dude is our QB, like it or not. The good news is that he's dedicated and willing to work hard. That's half the battle, and you don't always see that.

If he can't play, well that will become evident in 2010 because there really won't be any more excuses. Same goes for Todd Haley and whether he can coach. There really won't be any more excuses. Championship coordinators are in place, and I'm going to assume there will be some kind of an upgrade in talent this offseason. So if things don't improve, there's nowhere to hide...

[DBOSHO]

What kind of offense did weis run in NE? Was it all 5 wide quick passes or what?

[Mecca]

For what Billay said..

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If anyone thinks Cassel can make basically any of those throws you let me know.

[DaneMcCloud]

The dude is our QB, like it or not. The good news is that he's dedicated and willing to work hard. That's half the battle, and you don't always see that.



Bullshit.

TALENT is 90% of the battle. The rest is decided by passion.

Cassel has the passion but not the talent.

[DaWolf]

If anyone thinks Cassel can make basically any of those throws you let me know.

Aikman was the No 1 pick for a reason.

Guys like Cassel are essentially either going to have to make themselves good players through hard work, trying to improve on their weaknesses, and maximizing any strengths they do have.

Weis has got to figure out how to maximize Cassel and run an offense that caters to him. And if at that point Cassel still fails, well then I guess Brodie Croyle better hope that OL is a lot better than it was last year...

[Mecca]

Aikman was the No 1 pick for a reason.

Guys like Cassel are essentially either going to have to make themselves good players through hard work, trying to improve on their weaknesses, and maximizing any strengths they do have.

Weis has got to figure out how to maximize Cassel and run an offense that caters to him. And if at that point Cassel still fails, well then I guess Brodie Croyle better hope that OL is a lot better than it was last year...

So basically we're just going to throw WR and RB screens, that's really about all he's good at.

[DaWolf]

So basically we're just going to throw WR and RB screens, that's really about all he's good at.

I don't think anyone at this point should be expecting this guy to become a hall of famer.

Some guys do things better than others. Trent Green or Rich Gannon also weren't the most gifted of QB's but they worked hard, learned an offense inside out, and were able to execute within that offense when surrounded by talent. I'm not sitting here thinking that Cassel is ever going to be able to put a team on his back and carry them, because he isn't that kind of a QB. All we can hope for with Cassel is that he turns into a QB who is reliable and smart with the football and does the things necessary to win within the confines of the offense.

Would I prefer a superstar QB who can make all the throws? Hell yeah. But I don't see one joining our team this year...

[Fish]

I don't think anyone at this point should be expecting this guy to become a hall of famer.

Some guys do things better than others. Trent Green or Rich Gannon also weren't the most gifted of QB's but they worked hard, learned an offense inside out, and were able to execute within that offense when surrounded by talent. I'm not sitting here thinking that Cassel is ever going to be able to put a team on his back and carry them, because he isn't that kind of a QB. All we can hope for with Cassel is that he turns into a QB who is reliable and smart with the football and does the things necessary to win within the confines of the offense.

Would I prefer a superstar QB who can make all the throws? Hell yeah. But I don't see one joining our team this year...

I don't put Cassel in a league anywhere close to Trent Green or Rich Gannon. I'd do cartwheels for either of those guys over Cassel.

[DaWolf]

I don't put Cassel in a league anywhere close to Trent Green or Rich Gannon. I'd do cartwheels for either of those guys over Cassel.

I know what you are saying, but what I am getting at is that you have to hope that he can put himself in that league. The reality is, Trent Green wasn't any good until 2002, 6 years after he entered the league and three teams later, and Rich Gannon wasn't any good until 1999, 12 years after he entered the league and three teams later. And both of them performed pretty good in offenses that catered to what they did well and gave them a good supporting cast...

[Titty Meat]

For what Billay said..

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If anyone thinks Cassel can make basically any of those throws you let me know.

Where did I say Cassel was Aikman again?

[Titty Meat]

Troy Aikman wasn't good he just happend to have HOF players around him/ Mecca

[Mecca]

Aikman was both, he was a great player that played with great players.

[Titty Meat]

Aikman was both, he was a great player that played with great players.

You going to post where I said Cassel is Aikman?

[DaneMcCloud]

I know what you are saying, but what I am getting at is that you have to hope that he can put himself in that league. The reality is, Trent Green wasn't any good until 2002, 6 years after he entered the league and three teams later, and Rich Gannon wasn't any good until 1999, 12 years after he entered the league and three teams later. And both of them performed pretty good in offenses that catered to what they did well and gave them a good supporting cast...

WHAT?

Trent Green was a badass in 1998 in Washington, which led to his $16 million dollar contract as the starter in St. Louis.

FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:shake:

Are you 12 years old?

Fucking KNOW the facts before posting BULLSHIT.

[Mecca]

You going to post where I said Cassel is Aikman?

Why did you mention him as some kind of argument for stats then?

[Titty Meat]

Why did you mention him as some kind of argument for stats then?

I was quoting what you said in another thread about how stats can be misleading. Cassels stats vs Denver weren't great but if you watched the game he played solid.

[DaWolf]

WHAT?

Trent Green was a badass in 1998 in Washington, which led to his $16 million dollar contract as the starter in St. Louis.

****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:shake:

Are you 12 years old?

****ing KNOW the facts before posting BULLSHIT.

Dane, seriously? A badass? With a 54.6 completion percentage and 6 wins? That consists of a badass year for you? And that was five years after he was drafted in the eighth round by San Diego. Matt Cassel had a better year in New England, and that led to his contract here. That doesn't make Matt Cassel a badass.

Trent Green had the benefit of playing for teams that used the Coryell offense throughout his NFL career, from Turner and Martz in Washington to Vermeil and Martz in St. Louis to Vermeil and Saunders in KC. That's what his greatest strength was, knowing that offense inside and out and being able to execute it. He in no way stepped into the NFL and became what he ended up overnight...

[DaneMcCloud]

Dane, seriously? A badass? With a 54.6 completion percentage and 6 wins? That consists of a badass year for you? And that was five years after he was drafted in the eighth round by San Diego. Matt Cassel had a better year in New England, and that led to his contract here. That doesn't make Matt Cassel a badass.



Were you around? Did you watch the games? Do you NOW realize why St. Louis signed him to a $16 million dollar deal, which was HUGE at that time?

To act as if Trent Green was a bum is naive.

[Titty Meat]

Howd Green do when he played in a system that didn't have the right players?

[DaneMcCloud]

Howd Green do when he played in a system that didn't have the right players?

That's the point: Green was nothing special. He was a system QB but performed very well when the right pieces were in place.

Cassel doesn't have any tools, period.

It won't matter if he's got a 1,200 yard rusher, a good line or speed receivers.

He doesn't have the arm or the smarts.

[RealSNR]

Howd Green do when he played in a system that didn't have the right players?He could still accurately to Derrick Alexander and Chris Thomas. They wouldn't run the right routes, and that caused him to make stupid throws, but at least he would throw accurately.

[Titty Meat]

That's the point: Green was nothing special. He was a system QB but performed very well when the right pieces were in place.

Cassel doesn't have any tools, period.

It won't matter if he's got a 1,200 yard rusher, a good line or speed receivers.

He doesn't have the arm or the smarts.

What? He was able to win 11 games and throw for over 4,000 yards with that talent.

[DaneMcCloud]

What? He was able to win 11 games and throw for over 4,000 yards with that talent.

YAC.

Y.A.C.

And, he didn't throw any deep balls.

Do we really need to relive this discussion?

[DaWolf]

Were you around? Did you watch the games? Do you NOW realize why St. Louis signed him to a $16 million dollar deal, which was HUGE at that time?

To act as if Trent Green was a bum is naive.

Really? Then why was he cut by the Chargers, bounce around the CFL, and riding bench in Washington, if he was all that? You're acting as if he was always this great QB, which he was not. He had to WORK HARD to become a very good NFL QB, which is the point I'm trying to make, not that he didn't have a good year with this team or that team.

To act as if Trent Green was always good is naive. Again, Cassel had a good year in New England, got a big contract here, and stunk. Green also stunk it up here his first year here and people thought we overpaid for him. Do I think Cassel is Green? No. Do I hope to hell that he is able to turn it around in year two here like Green did? Hell yeah. Otherwise, we have no shot in hell at winning crap...

[Titty Meat]

YAC.

Y.A.C.

And, he didn't throw any deep balls.

Do we really need to relive this discussion?

And this would support my theory of he will do better when there are players in place that fit the system.

[DaneMcCloud]

And this would support my theory of he will do better when there are players in place that fit the system.

I think your theory is incorrect but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

[Titty Meat]

I think your theory is incorrect but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

What WR's on the roster are Y.A.C kind of players?

[DaneMcCloud]

What WR's on the roster are Y.A.C kind of players?

I don't think it matters because Cassel regressed in 2009 and he doesn't have the arm to compete in big games. He's just not a guy who can "put the team on his shoulders" and win with 2:00 minutes left.

Keep in mind, the Dolphins, Jets and Bills weren't exactly special in 2008, nor were the Chiefs and several of their other opponents.

[Titty Meat]

I don't think it matters because Cassel regressed in 2009 and he doesn't have the arm to compete in big games. He's just not a guy who can "put the team on his shoulders" and win with 2:00 minutes left.

Keep in mind, the Dolphins, Jets and Bills weren't exactly special in 2008, nor were the Chiefs and several of their other opponents.

The Dolphins, Jets, Bills were all ranked 14,15,16 total defense.

So not having the pieces for the system doesn't matter?

How many times did Cassel tie or win the game in the 4th Quarter last year?

[HotRoute]

I think your theory is incorrect but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Wow Dane , surprising post, but I like it

and speaking of cassel for a min. does it speak more highly of weis to come coach cassel by choice, considering he's coached
some pretty decent qb's. Or of Haley/cassel to bring in someone like weis, with all the SB rings and all

[DaneMcCloud]

The Dolphins, Jets, Bills were all ranked 14,15,16 total defense.

So not having the pieces for the system doesn't matter?

How many times did Cassel tie or win the game in the 4th Quarter last year?

So now mediocre is good?

And as far as point are concerned, the Jets were 15, the Bills 19 and Miami 24.

Not exactly impressive.

[DaneMcCloud]

Wow Dane , surprising post, but I like it

and speaking of cassel for a min. does it speak more highly of weis to come coach cassel by choice, considering he's coached
some pretty decent qb's. Or of Haley/cassel to bring in someone like weis, with all the SB rings and all

Well, Weis said in his press conference that he like Cassel because, and I quote, "He's here".

Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

[HotRoute]

What WR's on the roster are Y.A.C kind of players?

D. Bowe is pretty good yac wr and Charles outta the backfeild always has potential for some extra yrds. But don't forget a guy like chambers who can make shit just happen

[HotRoute]

Well, Weis said in his press conference that he like Cassel because, and I quote, "He's here".

Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

I agree and cassel could really be pushed to play his best this yr if we bring in someone through either the draft or FA

[DaneMcCloud]

I agree and cassel could really be pushed to play his best this yr if we bring in someone through either the draft or FA

I doubt there will be anyone available through FA to make a difference.

The draft could be different but seriously, trying to guess what Peeholi could do is like guessing the next chick to blow George Clooney.

It's fluid.

[HotRoute]

True True . B ut someone to look at early in the draft is claussen and later in the draft is dan lefevour and some FAs like pennington, redman, Campbell, or t.smith

[HotRoute]

Just suggestions, considering nobody seems to be on the Cassel wagon round here

[Hammock Parties]

At least Cassel has the right attitude. I like that he stayed in KC.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

At least Cassel has the right attitude. I like that he stayed in KC.

That's right. And as much as Cassel sucked last year I would think he gives us at least our best shot since Trent Green at having a decent QB.

I still long for the day that we actually draft a franchise QB.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

A new scheme won't be factor when he makes piss poor decisions on the field during games.

Decisions are directly connected to familiarity with the team and the offense. Considering last year was his first on the team, and he had three offenses within a calendar year, I am willing to consider these as mitigating factors.

The work ethic described in the article is why he was traded for and why he will ultimately be successful.

[milkman]

Decisions are directly connected to familiarity with the team and the offense. Considering last year was his first on the team, and he had three offenses within a calendar year, I am willing to consider these as mitigating factors.

The work ethic described in the article is why he was traded for and why he will ultimately be successful.

Meh.

Matt Cassel has Chad Pennington upside.

[Kerberos]

I know what you are saying, but what I am getting at is that you have to hope that he can put himself in that league. The reality is, Trent Green wasn't any good until 2002, 6 years after he entered the league and three teams later, and Rich Gannon wasn't any good until 1999, 12 years after he entered the league and three teams later. And both of them performed pretty good in offenses that catered to what they did well and gave them a good supporting cast...

If Green would have had the O-Line we've had the past few seasons and the cast around him we've had I doubt he would have faired much better than Cassel either.

I'll reserve my judgement on Cassel til AFTER we get some more help around him.

If he can game manage like he did for NE in 08 I would be plenty happy.

[The Bad Guy]

Cassel has bad habits that will make it 10 times as hard to alterations with his reads going up against the same competition. He was suppose to be a finished product, and that's why Pioli traded for him

This is a crock of shit. Your takes about the quarterback position are some of the worst I've ever read.

Cassel sucks, but he was never, ever a finished product. Who the fuck is a finished product after starting just 1 year in the last 8?

[milkman]

This is a crock of shit. Your takes about the quarterback position are some of the worst I've ever read.

Cassel sucks, but he was never, ever a finished product. Who the **** is a finished product after starting just 1 year in the last 8?

TW gets obssessive, then starts spouting absolute bull to justify his obssesions.

[Farzin]

While I agree Cassel has a lot to work on, his receivers did give up on him quite a lot. I didn't bother reading all five pages, but I'm hoping someone brought that up..

[JD10367]

Nice article about how much Cassel wants to win, how he stayed in KC instead of heading home to comfy Cali, how he's watching game film and talking to coaches and working on improving. In f**king Februray, no less.

Too bad even a positive article about the kid has to get shit on by the typical haters. I swear, some of you miserable bastards are so used to feeling miserable that it's ingrained in you.

Can you guys just make a "circle-jerk" icon for the main page to identify a Cassel- or Piolo- or Haley-bashing thread? It's a lot simpler.

[milkman]

Nice article about how much Cassel wants to win, how he stayed in KC instead of heading home to comfy Cali, how he's watching game film and talking to coaches and working on improving. In f**king Februray, no less.

Too bad even a positive article about the kid has to get shit on by the typical haters. I swear, some of you miserable bastards are so used to feeling miserable that it's ingrained in you.

Can you guys just make a "circle-jerk" icon for the main page to identify a Cassel- or Piolo- or Haley-bashing thread? It's a lot simpler.

We've been losing for forty+ ****ing years.
Of course it's ****ing ingrained in us.

And here's a clue.
If the thread has the names "Cassel, Pioli or Haley" or just about any other name associated with the Chiefs, there's going to be bashing.

Ryan Succop, Dustin Colquitt and Brandon Flowers are about the only exceptions.

[stevieray]

13 days?...:shake:


no effen wonder...

[DumbHillbillies]

Two things come to mind while reading this article. First, this is the reason that guys like Jamarcus russel will never have success. Secondly, I don't remember cassell beating denver in denver but I do remember charles running all over those fckdonks.

[Reerun_KC]

Can you guys just make a "circle-jerk" icon for the main page to identify a Cassel- or Piolo- or Haley-bashing thread? It's a lot simpler.That is a freaking great idea...


Mods? Can you program the thread title to anytime it has Whitlock- Cassel- or Piolo- or Haley it can change the Chiefs Icon on the prefix to a circle jerk type icon?

That would save a lot of people time in reading the same thing over 500 million times...

[milkman]

That is a freaking great idea...


Mods? Can you program the thread title to anytime it has Whitlock- Cassel- or Piolo- or Haley it can change the Chiefs Icon on the prefix to a circle jerk type icon?

That would save a lot of people time in reading the same thing over 500 million times...

This post is not only ironic, it's hypocritical.

[Reerun_KC]

This post is not only ironic, it's hypocritical.

Let me get you a mirror....

[milkman]

Let me get you a mirror....

Sure, go ahead dumbass.

[Reerun_KC]

Sure, go ahead dumbass.

Quit being a crying bitch this morning Milkman...

[milkman]

Quit being a crying bitch this morning Milkman...

JFC.

Are you too stupid to make the distinction between crying bitch and honest observation.

There was no one who was more assinine and did more circle jerk posts than you with your Herman ****ing Edwards vitriol.

Was he a useless bastard that should never have been hired to coach an NFL team?

Sure.

But you're act was tiresome, and now you take shots at people who aren't enamored with this regime?

What a ****ing joke.

[milkman]

ROFL.. Little Bitch please... Get off you high as horse this am... Who the **** made you the message board Nazi patrol?

Yeah its a ****ing joke, so what? What the **** are YOU going to do about it?

Besides quote and cry every time I post? LMAO And who did I take a shot at Mr Sherlock Holmes.

As I said, I just made an honest observation.

You're the one that got butt hurt and became defensive.

[Reerun_KC]

As I said, I just made an honest observation.

You're the one that got butt hurt and became defensive.



You know what Milkman.. I want to apologize this morning for being harsh and brass with you... That wasnt right, nor was swearing at you. I want to offer an sincere apology to you.

[Reerun_KC]

As I said, I just made an honest observation.

You're the one that got butt hurt and became defensive.

You're right. Dead on. I bitched relentlessly about Herm, like no other...

Guess it is my turn to sit back and try to read and unreadable message board huh?

[milkman]

You know what Milkman.. I want to apologize this morning for being harsh and brass with you... That wasnt right, nor was swearing at you. I want to offer an sincere apology to you.

You and I have been harsh and barss with each other more than once or twice.

I'm not offended.

Don't ever apologize.

We sometimes go round and round, but I still actually like your dumb ass and enjoy our arguments.

[DumbHillbillies]

:Peace::grouphug:



:D

[Fish]

Even with Green's first "TrInt" season with the Chiefs, you could tell he had the ability and leadership to improve. I'm just not seeing that with Cassel. That's the difference for me. Hope is great and fine. But hope isn't going to prevent me from being critical when I see reason for it.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

At least Cassel has the right attitude. I like that he stayed in KC.

Who gives a fuck? I'd rather he bought a pad next to Tony's old digs in Malibu Beach, and told everyone that KC didn't have any good restaurants if it made him a .2% better QB.

[chiefzilla1501]

Even with Green's first "TrInt" season with the Chiefs, you could tell he had the ability and leadership to improve. I'm just not seeing that with Cassel. That's the difference for me. Hope is great and fine. But hope isn't going to prevent me from being critical when I see reason for it.

Unfortunately, that's the one thing that worries me as well. For as much as I heard about his leadership, he didn't carry himself well--I thought he got a bit hotheaded at times.

The good news is that if you actually read up on Weis' approach to coaching QBs, he's really big on leadership intangibles. Hopefully that's something that they build up in Cassel and his offense is definitely going to be more friendly for Cassel.

But yeah, I'm in the boat that the Chiefs definitely need a competitive Plan B.

[Tribal Warfare]

This is a crock of shit. Your takes about the quarterback position are some of the worst I've ever read.




Pioli has been inferred to not taking gambles hence the reason he got Cassel instead of a rookie. The guy is going to be 28 years old, these poor decisions of his are hard wired in him. Unlike a rookie who can be molded considering if he has he any ability(reading defenses,athleticism) for the QB position can fix these bad habits . Cassel is at a point in career where these habits are very hard to break.

[Titty Meat]

Pioli has been inferred to not taking gambles hence the reason he got Cassel instead of a rookie. The guy is going to be 28 years old, these poor decisions of his are hard wired in him. Unlike a rookie who can be molded considering if he has he any ability(reading defenses,athleticism) for the QB position can fix these bad habits . Cassel is at a point in career where these habits are very hard to break.

Thats a bunch of shit too. Wes Welker & Randy Moss were gambles.

[Chieftain58]

I like Cassel now, I was pissed off when we signed him but he has proven to be a leader in all the adversity that was thrown his way. I think it wouldn't matter to most people on this board if he was the second coming of Joe Montana they would bash the hell out of him anyway.. because the main planet Chief bashers here are uneducated, unemployed, sitting in a beanbag eating cheetos watching Jimmy Swaggart mofo's anyway! lol

[DeezNutz]

Dustin Colquitt.

He's good.

But you'd think he's the second coming from the comments on this board.

So the punter will NOT escape criticism! :cuss:

[DeezNutz]

the main planet Chief bashers here are uneducated, unemployed, sitting in a beanbag eating cheetos watching Jimmy Swaggart mofo's anyway! lol

Interesting. I know you're kidding, but...

I bet a breakdown of the education and employment levels of the "haters" would be surprising.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Were you around? Did you watch the games? Do you NOW realize why St. Louis signed him to a $16 million dollar deal, which was HUGE at that time?

To act as if Trent Green was a bum is naive.

A 16 million dollar deal wasn't 'huge', especially for a starting QB. It was a good contract, but don't make it out to be more than it was.

Additionally, Trent Green was brought in to St. Louis due to his familiarity with Martz's offense. He had been in it for a few years. Thus, largely leading to his success.

In KC, he was in the SAME offense, with different players, and a different OC, and still struggled his first year.

Cassel had three different coordinators in 12 months. He is on a new team. I wonder why he struggled. It is such a mystery.

[Tribal Warfare]

Thats a bunch of shit too. Wes Welker & Randy Moss were gambles.

He wasn't the GM then

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Meh.

Matt Cassel has Chad Pennington upside.

Difference is that Pennington was more fragile, and shorter, and didn't have as strong of an arm.

Cassel is at least durable, if nothing else.

[DeezNutz]

I wonder why he struggled. It is such a mystery.

Oh, allow me to help:

It's because he's average at best, which is also why, oddly enough, he could never play much beyond high school.

[Titty Meat]

He wasn't the GM then


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/nfl/stories/010608dnsponflawards.25f63e1.html#

Scott Pioli, VP personnel, New England

New England needed better weapons to score with Indianapolis and overtake the Colts in the AFC. So Pioli traded for Randy Moss and Wes Welker and signed Donte Stallworth in free agency. Voila, the Patriots are suddenly the highest-scoring team in NFL history and only the second unbeaten team of the Super Bowl era.


Another article: http://www.soxplanet.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-2996.html

I know it's hard for you to admit Pioli has ever done anything good but please continute to discredit yourself.

[milkman]

Difference is that Pennington was more fragile, and shorter, and didn't have as strong of an arm.

Cassel is at least durable, if nothing else.

Pennington had far better accuarcy, and Cassel's arm strength isn't all that much better.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Oh, allow me to help:

It's because he's average at best, which is also why, oddly enough, he could never play much beyond high school.

Hey, we will see. It might be pretty hard to beat out two Heisman winners and Tom Brady though.

Had he transferred, he would have been able to play. But, he doesn't back down from adversity, doesn't take the easy road, and is very loyal. I can see why that bothers so many on this board.

Tom Brady didn't start much in College, and he wasn't behind two Heisman winners. He seems to be pretty good.

[DeezNutz]

Hey, we will see. It might be pretty hard to beat out two Heisman winners and Tom Brady though.

Had he transferred, he would have been able to play. But, he doesn't back down from adversity, doesn't take the easy road, and is very loyal. I can see why that bothers so many on this board.

Tom Brady didn't start much in College, and he wasn't behind two Heisman winners. He seems to be pretty good.

LMAO. Cassel's nutsack thanks you.

And both of those Heisman winners have gone on to be out****ingstanding in the league.

Regarding Brady, though, it's always wise to point to exceptions as evidence.

[Tribal Warfare]

I know it's hard for you to admit Pioli has ever done anything good but please continute to discredit yourself.



I'm giving Pioli a chance but his history and documentationwith Haley dictates that Haley is the gambler while Pioli is generally conservative( Tyson Jackson, Cassel) with his perception of the right 53.

[milkman]

I'm giving Pioli a chance but his history and documentationwith Haley dictates that Haley is the gambler while Pioli is generally conservative( Tyson Jackson, Cassel) with his perception of the right 53.

Oh Jesus.

:rolleyes:

[Tribal Warfare]

Oh Jesus.

:rolleyes:

His first moves were very Carl Peterson like unfortunately.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

LMAO. Cassel's nutsack thanks you.

And both of those Heisman winners have gone on to be out****ingstanding in the league.

Regarding Brady, though, it's always wise to point to exceptions as evidence.

Well, Carson Palmer has been pretty good. The reality, is that in the NFL it is less about talent and more about dedication and hard work. Which has been my point all along.

No one was wowed by Drew Brees when he came out. No one was wowed by Trent Green. No one was wowed by Kurt Warner. No one was wowed by Tom Brady. These guys just put in the work. The reality is that hard work, knowlege of the offense, and film study are still more important than anything else by a QB at the NFL level.

Cassel will be fine. And, at that point, I wonder what the detractors will say. Will it sundenly be that Bowe makes him great? Will it be someone else?

Who will be the 'reason' that Cassel is performing well?

It is rather amusing that a guy can come to a crappy team, have three different offenses in a year, have new teamates with little consistency at WR from week to week, and get injured in the preseason, causing him to miss valuable practice time, oh, and the WR's dropped the most passes in the league... I believe they even set an all time record..... Yet, geniuses on here are quite sure that he is a bust.

Hey, time will tell. I am not the guys biggest fan. I don't think he will be Elway or Montana. I just think that he can be a good system QB. And, a poor year given the circumstances, is understandable.

[DeezNutz]

Well, Carson Palmer has been pretty good. The reality, is that in the NFL it is less about talent and more about dedication and hard work. Which has been my point all along.

No one was wowed by Drew Brees when he came out. No one was wowed by Trent Green. No one was wowed by Kurt Warner. No one was wowed by Tom Brady. These guys just put in the work. The reality is that hard work, knowlege of the offense, and film study are still more important than anything else by a QB at the NFL level.

Cassel will be fine. And, at that point, I wonder what the detractors will say. Will it sundenly be that Bowe makes him great? Will it be someone else?

Who will be the 'reason' that Cassel is performing well?

It is rather amusing that a guy can come to a crappy team, have three different offenses in a year, have new teamates with little consistency at WR from week to week, and get injured in the preseason, causing him to miss valuable practice time, oh, and the WR's dropped the most passes in the league... I believe they even set an all time record..... Yet, geniuses on here are quite sure that he is a bust.

Hey, time will tell. I am not the guys biggest fan. I don't think he will be Elway or Montana. I just think that he can be a good system QB. And, a poor year given the circumstances, is understandable.

I disagree 100 percent with the first.

Brady and Warner are fantastic exceptions to the rule. Brees was considered a first/second-round talent, so he's not at all in the same discussion.

All this aside, I'll take superior talent every, single, day. "The right 53" bullshit can take a walk.

As for the bottom bold, I think he can be a decent game manager. An average player. But haven't we seen how this movie ends enough times? I guess not...

[SenselessChiefsFan]

His first moves were very Carl Peterson like unfortunately.

I dissagree. Until Herm Edwards came along, CP often focused on the physical talent of a guy and overlooked his desire to play the game.

Elvis Grbac? Great talent, great arm, minimal desire to play the game, and work ethic.

Ryan Sims? Junior Siavii? And, on and on.

Herm was focused on guys who love the game, which is why there have been few busts over the last few years.

Pioli brings that same focus. He drafts guys who love the game. Tyson Jackson is a worker. Cassel is a worker.

It doesn't mean every move will be right, but at least they won't fail due to a lack of committment and they have the right attitude to be around the rest of the guys on the team. Guys will poor work ethics don't just affect their own destiny, they affect those around them.

[DeezNutz]

I dissagree. Until Herm Edwards came along, CP often focused on the physical talent of a guy and overlooked his desire to play the game.

Elvis Grbac? Great talent, great arm, minimal desire to play the game, and work ethic.

Ryan Sims? Junior Siavii? And, on and on.

Herm was focused on guys who love the game, which is why there have been few busts over the last few years.

Pioli brings that same focus. He drafts guys who love the game. Tyson Jackson is a worker. Cassel is a worker.

It doesn't mean every move will be right, but at least they won't fail due to a lack of committment and they have the right attitude to be around the rest of the guys on the team. Guys will poor work ethics don't just affect their own destiny, they affect those around them.

Oh, yes, Pioli is all about the work ethic. I love the philosophy of "the right 53."

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/Moss%20td.jpg

[SenselessChiefsFan]

I disagree 100 percent with the first.

Brady and Warner are fantastic exceptions to the rule. Brees was considered a first/second-round talent, so he's not at all in the same discussion.

All this aside, I'll take superior talent every, single, day. "The right 53" bullshit can take a walk.

As for the bottom bold, I think he can be a decent game manager. An average player. But haven't we seen how this movie ends enough times? I guess not...

Brees was a late first/second round talent. Don't act like teams thought he would be great. If they did, they wouldn't have let him drop to the second round.

Jamarcus Russel has superior talent. Michael Vick has superior talent. Vince young has superior talent. Matt Leinhart has superior talent. I could go on and on.

According to Collin Cowherd, first round QB's are six times more likely to fail than succeed. It is much more than just talent. At the NFL level, every QB has 'talent'. It is what they do with it.

It is just like every team has talent. The difference between the worst and first is smaller than most realize. The same goes for QB's. It is dedication, execution and hard work that make the difference.

[DeezNutz]

Brees was a late first/second round talent. Don't act like teams thought he would be great. If they did, they wouldn't have let him drop to the second round.

Jamarcus Russel has superior talent. Michael Vick has superior talent. Vince young has superior talent. Matt Leinhart has superior talent. I could go on and on.

According to Collin Cowherd, first round QB's are six times more likely to fail than succeed. It is much more than just talent. At the NFL level, every QB has 'talent'. It is what they do with it.

It is just like every team has talent. The difference between the worst and first is smaller than most realize. The same goes for QB's. It is dedication, execution and hard work that make the difference.

No, no, no. Let's factor in some common sense, no pun intended.

Vick and Young are superior athletes. They do NOT have superior talent at the QB position. JR is also in the category of physical specimen, but for an entirely different reason. And Matt Leinhart? LMAO. He's the definition of a system guy because of his physical skill set.

A better example to fit your argument is Cutler. He has elite physical skills, and I'd take him over Cassel is a fucking second.

[Mr. Laz]

if Cassel turns it around every one of you stupid jackasses need to ban yourself for the entire season next year.

[Tribal Warfare]

It doesn't mean every move will be right, but at least they won't fail due to a lack of committment and they have the right attitude to be around the rest of the guys on the team. Guys will poor work ethics don't just affect their own destiny, they affect those around them.


As I retort his first moves were extremely conservative, Cassel was suppose to come in on his white horse and lead this team to a winning record. Which didn't happen because Pioli misjudged Cassel's talent and the entire team's too specifically the OL.

[DeezNutz]

All those "stupid jackasses" have been wrong so much to this point, would it be fair for them to wield a ban hammer as a benefit of accurate analysis going into '09?

Should the ballwashers get a vacation?

[Tribal Warfare]

if Cassel turns it around every one of you stupid jackasses need to ban yourself for the entire season next year.

He won't want you saw last year from Cassel is what he is as a player.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

"He worked really hard, Grandma."

"So do washing machines"

[Mr. Laz]

half the time you asshole start a thread just to give youself an excuse to bitch like little girls.

Why don't you just go masturbate with a piece of sandpaper ... it'll give ya the say results.


the only ballwashing going on around here is the mecca squad who keep his balls immaculate

[DeezNutz]

All of the evidence to this point is false. /Chiefs fan

[DeezNutz]

Well, go ahead and post the sandpaper in the girlie thread.

[Reerun_KC]

half the time you asshole start a thread just to give youself an excuse to bitch like little girls.

Why don't you just go masturbate with a piece of sandpaper ... it'll give ya the say results.


the only ballwashing going on around here is the mecca squad who keep his balls immaculate

ROFL

That is all

Just

ROFL

[DeezNutz]

LMAO.

The "Mecca squad." The poster who isn't even in the thread and has zero bearing on the current conversation?

Tangential aside, FTMFW.

[Reerun_KC]

LMAO.

The "Mecca squad." The poster who isn't even in the thread and has zero bearing on the current conversation?

Tangential aside, FTMFW.

I just choked on Jim Beam and Coke!

That was funny!

[Titty Meat]

Talk about beating a dead horse.

[milkman]

He won't want you saw last year from Cassel is what he is as a player.

JFC.

I'm no fan of cassel, but the bullshit you spew is beyond fucking stupid.

What we saw from Cassel last year was much of what Sensible is saying.

He had so many different thisng change and go wrong he was bound to struggle mightily.

He's a marginally talented QB that can manage games effectively in the right situation.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[Tribal Warfare]

JFC.

I'm no fan of cassel, but the bullshit you spew is beyond fucking stupid.



Expound please, I've cited he makes poor decisions and pretty much stayed at mediocre to below average play while the whole team improved.

[milkman]

Expound please, I've cited he makes poor decisions and pretty much stayed at mediocre to below average play while the whole team improved.

I already expounded you dumbfuck.

[Mecca]

The personal butt hurt I have put on Laz is astounding and amusing at the same time, I live under that guys skin.

And I'd just like to add that Cassel was suppose to beat out Leinart at SC so lets not act like he was buried and given no chance.

[Tribal Warfare]

I already expounded you dumbfuck.



yay, namecalling the best way to get across a message without providing your reasoning

[milkman]

yay, namecalling the best way to get across a message without providing your reasoning

The name calling is because you are a dumbfuck with reading comprehension issues that talks out of your ass.

[Tribal Warfare]

The name calling is because you are a dumbfuck with reading comprehension issues that talks out of your ass.


gotcha, it's really awesome when a conversation turns into middle school like arguement

[RustShack]

Settle down children.

[milkman]

gotcha, it's really awesome when a conversation turns into middle school like arguement

Quite frankly, I respond to your level intelligence in a manner that I think your dumb ass can understand, because clearly when I make a reasonable post, you can't grasp it..

[Tribal Warfare]

Quite frankly, I respond to your level intelligence in a manner that I think your dumb ass can understand, because clearly when I make a reasonable post, you can't grasp it..

Yes, and I agree with you on most of those points but when someone disagrees with you.

Oooh good god, it's like someone ate the last snack pack and you start throwing a fit.

[milkman]

Yes, and I agree with you on most of those points but when someone disagrees with you.

Oooh good god, it's like someone ate the last snack pack and you start throwing a fit.

I don't always respond to people I disagree with in the same manner.

Just the dumbasses.

[DaneMcCloud]

Oooh good god, it's like someone ate the last snack pack and you start throwing a fit.

Someone at the last Snack Pack?

Bastards!

:cuss:

[RustShack]

Someone at the last Snack Pack?

Bastards!

:cuss:

Better buy some more with your casino cash while you still have it.

[Tribal Warfare]

Someone at the last Snack Pack?

Bastards!

:cuss:


Yeah, I remember bogarting my all the snack packs and my sister got pissed and started crying when she was little. I had to count the number left ever since .

[Tribal Warfare]

I don't always respond to people I disagree with in the same manner.

Just the dumbasses.

Then I should feel honored that I antagonize you that much :fire:

[DaneMcCloud]

Better buy some more with your casino cash while you still have it.

LMAO

Still living in denial, I see?

[Buzzsaw]

Cassel's a likeable guy. That's all I got.

[RustShack]

Cassel's a likeable guy. That's all I got.

Just like Boomer Grigsby, he must be good.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Oh, yes, Pioli is all about the work ethic. I love the philosophy of "the right 53."

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/Moss%20td.jpg

As with any team, you can get away with a few really talented guys that have to have the rest of the team to pull them in the right direction. The key here, is getting the team in place FIRST. Get the culture established, and then you can add players like Randy Moss.

[Kerberos]

You know what Milkman.. I want to apologize this morning for being harsh and brass with you... That wasnt right, nor was swearing at you. I want to offer an sincere apology to you.

You and I have been harsh and barss with each other more than once or twice.

I'm not offended.

Don't ever apologize.

We sometimes go round and round, but I still actually like your dumb ass and enjoy our arguments.

GAWDAMNED RIGHT.....It's a sign of weakness.

[ChiefsCountry]

Its a shame Cassel isnt going to work in Denver.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Tango&Cash]

One thing to def consider is when Haley fired OC Gailey and trashed the playbook, wanting to start from scratch. That was a huge mistake on Haley's part IMO. That would throw off any QB. esp one who has had very little playing time in this league.

Give him some talent around him, and Oline, good running game, and a full offseason OTA's, camp etc working with Weis, and I bet Cassel is 10x better.

Look at Trent Green's situation his first season here. People forget about that. TrINT etc

[ChiefsCountry]

Give him some talent around him, and Oline, good running game, and a full offseason OTA's, camp etc working with Weis, and I bet Cassel is 10x better.

So he would be a below average QB. Awesome just what we need another POS backup trying to be a starter.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Tango&Cash]

So he would be a below average QB. Awesome just what we need another POS backup trying to be a starter.
Posted via Mobile Device

Trent Green wasn't good either his first season here. And Trent actually had better talent/scenario around him.

Green
HC/OC that were on the same page
Good Oline,
Good running game
HOF TE
He's actually had starting exp in the league. Not someone like Cassel who played a total of 16 games since HS.


Cassel
HC/OC that didn't fit together. OC gets fired 13 days before the reg season
Terrible Oline
Poor running game til last 4-5 games
WR's with stone hands, Tony G is gone at this point
Has played a whopping 32 games of football since HS


Green had way more grooming for success than Cassel did, and ended up with the same results and a shit ton of INT's

To be honest, I would really want to take a hard look at Jimmy Clausen. esp if Berry has already been selected. Because if Cassel doesn't show a significant amount of improvement, you almost just have to cut your losses and go with the kid that has a lot more upside.

[Pioli Zombie]

As I retort his first moves were extremely conservative, Cassel was suppose to come in on his white horse and lead this team to a winning record. Which didn't happen because Pioli misjudged Cassel's talent and the entire team's too specifically the OL.
Who the fuck said the Chiefs were going to be any better than 4-12 in 2009?
Posted via Mobile Device

[milkman]

Look at Trent Green's situation his first season here. People forget about that. TrINT etc

No people don't forget that.

How the hell can we when we're reminded seemingly a hundred fucking times a day?

[milkman]

Then I should feel honored that I antagonize you that much :fire:
I'm going to tell you what I've told others.

I see dumbassery, I verbally blugeon the dumbass.

You don't antagonize me.

I'm trying (quite unsuccessfully, no doubt) to shock some sense into your dumb ass.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I know what you are saying, but what I am getting at is that you have to hope that he can put himself in that league. The reality is, Trent Green wasn't any good until 2002, 6 years after he entered the league and three teams later, and Rich Gannon wasn't any good until 1999, 12 years after he entered the league and three teams later. And both of them performed pretty good in offenses that catered to what they did well and gave them a good supporting cast...

I watched Gannon as a back up make sideline bombs to sub-par receivers that would make Cassel's panties wet.

No people don't forget that.

How the hell can we when we're reminded seemingly a hundred fucking times a day?

This.:banghead: