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Coogs
02-22-2010, 10:53 AM
I know I would be in the minority, but I hope this guy has not been taken off of our draft board.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/news/story?id=4935351

Tebow to unveil new delivery at pro day By Adam Schefter
ESPN

Tim Tebow is, essentially, painting over the masterpiece he created at the University of Florida.

In an effort to quiet his critics and refine his game, Tebow is changing the way he holds a football, shifting it from his waist to his shoulder. He is concentrating on taking three- and five-step drops instead of working out of the shotgun formation he did at Florida.

He will not unveil Tebow 2.0 at this week's scouting combine in Indianapolis, preferring instead to wait for his pro day at the University of Florida on March 17.

But until then, he will continue working on improving his fundamentals in an effort to improve his draft position and his game.

"I'm not changing who I am or how I approach football," Tebow said Sunday night from Nashville, Tenn., where he has been busy remaking the style that was good enough to win one Heisman Trophy and two national championships at Florida.

"But there are things that I can get a lot better at -- my fundamentals. I've never been asked to shorten or quicken my release and not have a loop in it. The changes I'm making have gone very well and it's becoming more and more natural to me."

Asked if he would have embarked on such an extensive and exhausting process had his performance at the Senior Bowl not been so roundly criticized, Tebow said: "Probably, just because of the quarterback coaches I've been working with. I want to get better. I want to be around people who will push me. I will do anything to get better. Without hearing the criticism, I would have done it.

"It's made me more confident, more accurate. And that's not to say I haven't had this type of coaching in the past. I just have had different coaching than this NFL style."

Tebow has been tutored in a pro-style way by working with a coaching team that includes former NFL offensive coordinator Zeke Bratkowski, Montreal Alouettes head coach Marc Trestman, Arizona State's new offensive coordinator Noel Mazzone and former NFL head coach Sam Wyche.

Bratkowski has concentrated on getting Tebow to raise the football to where it now does not dip lower than his shoulder. The delivery that allowed Tebow to complete over 67 percent of his passes at Florida but the one that also was roundly questioned during and after the Senior Bowl has begun to be made over at the pre-draft workouts in Nashville.

Much of the work has started with Tebow's feet, which were used to working out of a shotgun offense. Bratkowski and others have drilled Tebow on the requisite footwork that he will need to become a successful NFL quarterback.



You're not looking at the same quarterback. To say we're there 100 percent where we want to be, no. But we'll be more improved come pro day.


-- Former NFL offensive coordinator Zeke Bratkowski, part of the coaching team tutoring Tim Tebow

Anyone who has seen Tebow has noticed the difference -- already.

"You're not looking at the same quarterback," said Bratkowski, who has worked with quarterbacks such as San Diego's Philip Rivers, Philadelphia's Michael Vick and Boomer Esiason. "To say we're there 100 percent where we want to be, no. But we'll be more improved come pro day than we are at this point in time now."

Tebow still will attend this week's combine, go through his medical tests, meet with coaches, and do everything but throw. Then he will return to Gainesville to further work on upgrading his fundamentals with Bratkowski and others so that Tebow will not revert back to his old ways during his upcoming workouts.

"That's the reason we're trying to rep it and rep it and rep it," Bratkowski said. Those that have seen Tebow's new delivery believe it is noticeably quicker.

"The ball is coming out a lot faster now," Trestman said. Yet what most impressed Trestman about Tebow was not the quarterback's adaptability but his mental capacity.

"His intelligence level is as high as any quarterback I've encountered coming out of college," Trestman said. "His intelligence is off the charts. After spending time with Tim, it was evident that he learned a lot of football in his four years at Florida -- a lot.

"As a result he has been able to quickly adapt and make corrections in his throwing motion and footwork that will allow him to get the ball out faster and improve his accuracy. He has more than enough arm strength and shown he can make all the throws at the next level. He has only been at it for a few weeks so I can only anticipate he will continue to improve."

Bratkowski said the coaches learn more from Tebow than he learns from them. His intelligence has enabled him to grasp what the coaches are trying to teach.

Many, including ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. and Todd McShay, questioned how Tebow's delivery would translate at the NFL level.

Other quarterbacks have tried a similar approach, achieving mixed results. From the time he left Tennessee and arrived in Indianapolis, quarterback Peyton Manning changed and perfected his delivery. Former No. 1 overall pick David Carr once changed his, but never managed to make it consistently work.

Other high-profile athletes in other sports have changed their game, as well. Through the years, Tiger Woods has changed his golf swing on multiple occasions. Now Tebow is waging a similar battle, trying to upgrade his fundamentals in time for his NFL pro day, so teams can be impressed enough with him to draft him higher than they currently have him slotted.

"Things like this are challenges for him," Bratkowski said. "He doesn't have rabbit ears, but he knows what people are saying and he hears it -- and that motivates him. He is working hard to make sure what he is doing now is something he can showcase later."

Tebow does not plan to wait long.

"I've done this several thousand times," Tebow said. "With continued work, I will have this down pat by minicamp. It will be like second nature. It's not like it feels awkward to me now. I'm excited about the changes I've made."

Chiefnj2
02-22-2010, 10:58 AM
Trying to force 8 years of coaching into 8 weeks.

Molitoth
02-22-2010, 11:03 AM
I wish upon him success because he has the heart, and because everyone else wants him to fail.

Chiefnj2
02-22-2010, 11:06 AM
I wish upon him success because he has the heart, and because everyone else wants him to fail.

The decision by his team of trainers solidifies the fact that he isn't ready to be an NFL QB.

Mr. Laz
02-22-2010, 11:37 AM
I wish upon him success because he has the heart, and because everyone else wants him to fail.
people are just sick of hearing about him

it's not really his fault but when somebody get so much media coverage (tiger woods, brett favre,tim tebow) the fans just get sick of it.

B_Ambuehl
02-22-2010, 02:06 PM
They can coach him up all he wants to, but when he gets stresses his body will revert back to doing things the way he's always done. Look at Leftwich. They tried for years to coach that low delivery out of him but it didn't work - and that's not even Tebows bigggest problem. His biggest problem is his ultra slow, ultra long windup. If you observe the diffrence in gross mtor skills between different people the windup and release are really unique to individuals and likely a barometer of how the mind is working . Unless Tebow gets a new brain he's always gonna throw the football like that.

CoMoChief
02-22-2010, 02:49 PM
You think Alex Smith was bad. Just wait til Tebow sees an NFL field.

Mr. Laz
02-22-2010, 02:59 PM
They can coach him up all he wants to, but when he gets stresses his body will revert back to doing things the way he's always done. Look at Leftwich. They tried for years to coach that low delivery out of him but it didn't work - and that's not even Tebows bigggest problem. His biggest problem is his ultra slow, ultra long windup. If you observe the diffrence in gross mtor skills between different people the windup and release are really unique to individuals and likely a barometer of how the mind is working . Unless Tebow gets a new brain he's always gonna throw the football like that.
yep ... that's why i think Vince Young is probably going back down again.

his weird throwing motion is eventually gonna bite him in the ass.


i also worry about Bradford in this years draft ... his hand is "under" the ball and in the middle on the fat part of the ball. Sort of a flipping throwing motion and i wonder whether he's gonna struggle. Maybe Bradford will wear a glove all the time like Warner to help.

DaKCMan AP
02-22-2010, 03:08 PM
They can coach him up all he wants to, but when he gets stresses his body will revert back to doing things the way he's always done. Look at Leftwich. They tried for years to coach that low delivery out of him but it didn't work - and that's not even Tebows bigggest problem. His biggest problem is his ultra slow, ultra long windup. If you observe the diffrence in gross mtor skills between different people the windup and release are really unique to individuals and likely a barometer of how the mind is working . Unless Tebow gets a new brain he's always gonna throw the football like that.

I agree to a point. IMO, it all depends upon worth ethic. If you have a high enough work ethic and put in the hours upon hours upon hours, then you can retrain your body's muscle memory. Thus it's possible his 'instinct' while under pressure can transform to the new throwing motion. However, if you're a lazy sack of crap like Vince Young (from most indications), then you won't put in the work that's required to truly retrain your body.

Chiefnj2
02-22-2010, 03:24 PM
i also worry about Bradford in this years draft ... his hand is "under" the ball and in the middle on the fat part of the ball. Sort of a flipping throwing motion and i wonder whether he's gonna struggle. Maybe Bradford will wear a glove all the time like Warner to help.

I've seen you mention this a few times and I don't see it. I see a nice compact throwing motion.

DaKCMan AP
02-22-2010, 04:48 PM
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Sfeihc
02-22-2010, 06:41 PM
After his pro day, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he goes to Jacksonville in RD1 with the 10th pick.

Digital Takawira
02-22-2010, 07:04 PM
danny wuerffel, rex grossman, chris leak, tim tebow. carrying on the tradition of fail in the nfl.

DaKCMan AP
02-22-2010, 07:28 PM
danny wuerffel, rex grossman, chris leak, tim tebow. carrying on the tradition of fail in the nfl.

Retarded.

I suppose the Chargers/Giants shouldn't have drafted Philip Rivers due to the previous successes of Troy Taylor, Mike Pawlawski, Dave Barr, Pat Barnes and Kyle Boller.

:spock:

Digital Takawira
02-22-2010, 07:33 PM
Retarded.

I suppose the Chargers/Giants shouldn't have drafted Philip Rivers due to the previous successes of Troy Taylor, Mike Pawlawski, Dave Barr, Pat Barnes and Kyle Boller.

:spock:

you do realize that philip rivers didn't go to cal, right? guess it's that awesome floriduh edubacation.

Saul Good
02-22-2010, 07:39 PM
You think Alex Smith was bad. Just wait til Tebow sees an NFL field.

Holy shit. Now I hope the Chiefs draft him with our first pick. Tebow's going to the HOF.

Saul Good
02-22-2010, 07:42 PM
They can coach him up all he wants to, but when he gets stresses his body will revert back to doing things the way he's always done. Look at Leftwich. They tried for years to coach that low delivery out of him but it didn't work - and that's not even Tebows bigggest problem. His biggest problem is his ultra slow, ultra long windup. If you observe the diffrence in gross mtor skills between different people the windup and release are really unique to individuals and likely a barometer of how the mind is working . Unless Tebow gets a new brain he's always gonna throw the football like that.

Let's not compare Leftwich to Tebow in terms of his head and his heart. I don't really see Tebow succeeding in the NFL, but I wouldn't put it past him to do whatever it takes to make it happen.

Tiger Woods completely remade his swing when he was the best player of the game. I'm not comparing Tebow to Woods, either. I'm just saying that it can be done.

Digital Takawira
02-22-2010, 07:42 PM
Holy shit. Now I hope the Broncos draft him with their first pick. Tebow's going to go hang out with eric crouch.


Fixed.

Ralphy Boy
02-22-2010, 07:44 PM
I hope he can be a very good Pro QB in the NFL. That said, I still wouldn't spend a first rounder on him if I were a teams GM. Taking a QB who is trying to change the single most important aspect of his position "throwing", within a 3 or 4 month period, when you've done it the same way your whole QB life and expecting success is making a projection far bigger than taking a down linemen and asking him to play LB and drop into coverage.

If your team REALLY needed a QB and little else, then I think you could be okay in taking that chance in the 2nd. Our team doesn't have that luxury and neither do most so I personally couldn't see a GM, who deserves to keep his job, taking him sooner than the 3rd.

DrRyan
02-22-2010, 08:30 PM
you do realize that philip rivers didn't go to cal, right? guess it's that awesome floriduh edubacation.

I'd say it is pretty obvious he did not after listing 5 QBs from California and none from NC State!

Mecca
02-22-2010, 08:39 PM
I would hope he meant Rodgers and not Rivers...

Tebow frankly has everything working against him, sure he's a great guy and everything but that isn't going to win any games.

Saul Good
02-22-2010, 09:18 PM
Fixed.

I would have agreed right up until when CoMo agreed.

DaKCMan AP
02-22-2010, 09:19 PM
you do realize that philip rivers didn't go to cal, right? guess it's that awesome floriduh edubacation.

Meant Aaron Rodgers. The point still remains, but if you want to use a strawman then it's more of a reflection upon yourself.

Saul Good
02-22-2010, 09:51 PM
Meant Aaron Rodgers. The point still remains, but if you want to use a strawman then it's more of a reflection upon yourself.

If you meant Aaron Rodgers, why did you say "Chargers/Giants"?

DaKCMan AP
02-22-2010, 09:53 PM
If you meant Aaron Rodgers, why did you say "Chargers/Giants"?

It was a mistake. I was originally going to do Philip Rivers but then switched to Rodgers and Cal which had a lot more QBs drafted recently.

Considered Tennessee as well with Peyton Manning being drafted after Heath Shuler.

Crush
02-23-2010, 06:51 AM
Trying to force 8 years of coaching into 8 weeks.

I smell a montage.

Otter
02-23-2010, 07:45 AM
Would anyone be the least bit surprised if Al Davis waved his cane in the air and demanded to take Tebow in the first round?

That would be Awe-Some!

DaKCMan AP
02-23-2010, 08:07 AM
Would anyone be the least bit surprised if Al Davis waved his cane in the air and demanded to take Tebow in the first round?

That would be Awe-Some!

That would suck. :shake: I don't really care if Tebow succeeds or fails in the NFL unless he's with the Chiefs (succeed) or with the donks/raiders/chargers (fail) but I'd prefer he at least be given the opportunity to succeed. No player will get that with oakland.

Coogs
02-23-2010, 08:09 AM
I hope he can be a very good Pro QB in the NFL. That said, I still wouldn't spend a first rounder on him if I were a teams GM. Taking a QB who is trying to change the single most important aspect of his position "throwing", within a 3 or 4 month period, when you've done it the same way your whole QB life and expecting success is making a projection far bigger than taking a down linemen and asking him to play LB and drop into coverage.

If your team REALLY needed a QB and little else, then I think you could be okay in taking that chance in the 2nd. Our team doesn't have that luxury and neither do most so I personally couldn't see a GM, who deserves to keep his job, taking him sooner than the 3rd.

This

If we are going to pass on the first round QB in the top 5 for the 3rd year in a row, then a flier on Tebow in the 3rd might not be all bad. The dude is motivated, and he is a winner. A year or two behind the wobble launcher to refine his technique, and I would be fine with him as our QB if he does indeed pan out.

Yes the media does cram him down our throats. And yes, we get tired of hearing about Favre, Manning, Brady, and the Cowboys as well. But I will bet the fans of those "teams/players" do not get tired of hearing about them 24/7.

Chiefnj2
02-23-2010, 08:29 AM
This

If we are going to pass on the first round QB in the top 5 for the 3rd year in a row, then a flier on Tebow in the 3rd might not be all bad. The dude is motivated, and he is a winner. A year or two behind the wobble launcher to refine his technique, and I would be fine with him as our QB if he does indeed pan out.

Yes the media does cram him down our throats. And yes, we get tired of hearing about Favre, Manning, Brady, and the Cowboys as well. But I will bet the fans of those "teams/players" do not get tired of hearing about them 24/7.

If you are going to take a flier on a QB in round 3 then go with LeFevour.

Coogs
02-23-2010, 08:45 AM
If you are going to take a flier on a QB in round 3 then go with LeFevour.

nj,

Tebow is option 3 for me. Option 1 is Clausen, since our OC and him have a history. If he is available, and we pass, I assume Clausen is not a franchise
QB, and would be OK with the pass

Option 2 is Locker in the first round next year. That may take the top overall pick to pull that one off, and would require possibly having another chip in the first round next year to get to #1. NE already has two chips... theirs and Oaklands. We may need to trade a draft pick in round 2 this year for a 1st next year to be in position. Not sure how fond of that idea I am right now, so that is why Locker is option 2.

Tebow is option 3. Dude is a winner and he is driven. He has lived under the microscope and responded. IMO, that is the type of person we need to lead this team. A year or two more of Cassel, then turn it over.

JMO

Digital Takawira
02-23-2010, 05:09 PM
Meant Aaron Rodgers. The point still remains, but if you want to use a strawman then it's more of a reflection upon yourself.

no, the point was florida qb's have done nothing in the nfl and i fully expect tebow to do the same. is that simple enough for you? no implication that a qb should not be drafted because of prior qb's performance, only that tebag will blow goat balls based on his own merit. i know it's tough to understand that orange jesus won't revolutionize the nfl, but you can do it if you just try hard enough.

Jerm
02-23-2010, 07:55 PM
The thing I've never understood in all this Tebow stuff is that people automatically assume he'll fail and try to make comparisons...well about a comparison to Vince Young?

Both have awful deliveries, came out of spread offenses, and were running QBs.

Why was VY considered a Franchise QB, a savior, and a Top 5 pick yet Tebow will struggle to be a 4th round pick? I'm being for real...just really want to know what people think.

Tebow has everything VY (including the problems) but has 20x the intangibles, played against better defenses and won a lot more.

I think Tebow has a ways to go but I look at Young and see where Tebow CAN become a successful QB.
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'Hamas' Jenkins
02-23-2010, 08:23 PM
The thing I've never understood in all this Tebow stuff is that people automatically assume he'll fail and try to make comparisons...well about a comparison to Vince Young?

Both have awful deliveries, came out of spread offenses, and were running QBs.

Why was VY considered a Franchise QB, a savior, and a Top 5 pick yet Tebow will struggle to be a 4th round pick? I'm being for real...just really want to know what people think.

Tebow has everything VY (including the problems) but has 20x the intangibles, played against better defenses and won a lot more.

I think Tebow has a ways to go but I look at Young and see where Tebow CAN become a successful QB.
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Part of it comes from learning from past mistakes. A Vince Young wouldn't be considered that highly now precisely because of those concerns. Furthermore, there were tons of people who had numerous concerns about Young, save for Bob Dole.

Jerm
02-23-2010, 09:00 PM
Point well taken.

It def hurts Tebow that the likes of Smith, Carr, and to extent Vick failed in front of him. That and the stigma the Spread has in the NFL makes it difficult for him.

I've always been vehemently against taking him but the more I think about it the more I might take a flyer on him if he was still on the board in the mid rounds.
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talastan
02-26-2010, 11:00 AM
Hypothetical, how would you feel if: We pick up Okung at #5 put him at RT, leave Albert where he is, and draft Tebow with 2a? I don't know if I like the idea myself, just curious as to the benefits/problems here. We'd have an option QB that if he has developed a decent throwing motion would be a killer with Charles in the backfield. Again not the way I would go, but just speculating.

wild1
02-26-2010, 11:15 AM
Read quotes from this guy, and compare him to say - Jamarcus Russell. You could certainly do a lot worse. At least he has the makeup to be a pro.

You can't fix his fundamentals in a few weeks, but maybe you could in a year or two, considering you have someone with a very high level of desire and commitment.

Without those things, you can't make all-world talent into anything. See: Russell

the Talking Can
02-26-2010, 12:16 PM
Hypothetical, how would you feel if: We pick up Okung at #5 put him at RT, leave Albert where he is, and draft Tebow with 2a? I don't know if I like the idea myself, just curious as to the benefits/problems here. We'd have an option QB that if he has developed a decent throwing motion would be a killer with Charles in the backfield. Again not the way I would go, but just speculating.

i'd fucking kill every human within a 10,000 miles radius

the Talking Can
02-26-2010, 12:19 PM
the guy is scrapping his throwing motion that he's used in every game OF HIS LIFE for something brand new, he's not played a single competitive down with this new form


major red flag....i wouldn't touch him with anything higher than a 5th (i personally wouldn't draft him period)