Haden just lost about $10 mil in 4.6 secs, Berry 4.5

[COchief]

Per Schefter on ESPN:

@Adam_Schefter RT @MoveTheSticks: On a scouts watch, Haden just ran 4.59. Berry ran 4.50. about an hour ago

Feel bad for Haden, that is going to hurt big time.

[RUSH]

4.50? Is that the official time?

I know he ran an unofficial 4.40 and 4.46

Edit: On a scouts watch so that is unofficial as well.

[spanky 52]

Was watching the combine today and now praying Berry is still on the board at 5. I know we have so many needs but this guy has can't miss all over him.

[Chiefnj2]

4.50? Is that the official time?

I know he ran an unofficial 4.40 and 4.46

He's reporting the hand time of a scout feeding him info.

[DaKCMan AP]

Unofficial times are in the Combine Thread, but Berry first ran a 4.46 and then a 4.40.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Indy is a slow track.

The unofficial times that the NFLN first reports, while not "accurate" are actually probably closer to the true speed of the player.

Berry is a 4.4-4.45 guy. That's not surprising.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

If it's a slow track what does that say about Taylor Mays? Genetic freak baby. I wish we were picking around 12 this year. He's going to be special.

[Chiefnj2]

If it's a slow track what does that say about Taylor Mays? Genetic freak baby. I wish we were picking around 12 this year. He's going to be special.

It's not a slow track.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It's not a slow track.

Yes, it is.

Guys like Maclin, Harvin, etc, who all run 4.3s consistently, ran 4.4+ on that track.

Last year, the buzz out of the combine was how "slow" everyone seemed. Well, it wasn't their lack of speed, it was the surface.

It's 1/10 of a second slower than the old field at RCA.

[Chiefnj2]

Yes, it is.

Guys like Maclin, Harvin, etc, who all run 4.3s consistently, ran 4.4+ on that track.

Last year, the buzz out of the combine was how "slow" everyone seemed. Well, it wasn't their lack of speed, it was the surface.

It's 1/10 of a second slower than the old field at RCA.

40 Yard Dash
February 2, 2010 in: 40 yard dash
The Truth About Speed, NFL Combines and the 40 Yard Dash!


Two coaches that I respect greatly, Mike Boyle & Nick Tumminello, wrote this great article on 40 yard dash speed times. Enjoy!

The Truth About Speed, NFL Combines and the 40 Yard Dash!
By: Mike Boyle & Nick Tumminello at nicktumminello.com

Speed is the stuff of urban legend. Deion Sanders supposedly showed up at the NFL Combine, ran a 4.2 and went home. We routinely hear of high school kids who purportedly run 4.3’s and 4.4’s. The stories of “reported” speed have gotten out of control. This would not be a problem in and of itself. Most of us could look at it and say “so what” people lie or people embellish. The real problem is that the lies seem to be setting the standard. One of the reasons that I no longer train athletes for the NFL Combine is the unrealistic expectations of athletes and agents based on these “urban legends” or the occasional freakish performance like Vernon Davis this year.
.
1- Electronic start- electronic finish. This should be the standard but, unfortunately is not. The start is done with a touch pad and the finish with a photocell. This is the most accurate and as a result yields the slowest times. An electronic start/ electronic finish time has been shown to be .22 seconds slower than a hand held 40 yard dash. ( Brown, 2004)
.
2- Hand Start- electronic finish. This is a system used uniquely at the NFL Combine. A hand start-electronic finish will be approximately .1 seconds slower than a hand held 40 yard dash. In the combine the use of hand start will be particularly evident in the faster ten yard dash times. Athletes will run 10 yard times much closer to a hand held but, times at each following split will be closer to the electronic time.
.
3- Hand Start- hand finish- this is the fastest and least accurate. Handheld times tend to be faster but are clearly more prone to human error. Many of the legendary times I believe were hand-held timing combined with human error or human expectation.
.
At the NFL Combine in 1996, 97, 98, 2001 and 2003 and 2006 no one ran a 4.2. No one. Not one person. In 2001 Ladainian Tomlinson ran one 4.36, five in the 4.4’s and vertical jumped 40.5. 2003 was a fast year, yet still produced no 4.2’s. Ten athletes ran 4.3’s in 2003. The heaviest was a 223 pound running back. The Combine track is always said to be slow but the truth is it is simply accurate. All of these supposed fast times seem to be run at times when no independent verification is available. Seems a bit curious doesn’t it.
.
Here’s another angle on the whole “speed” thing. Ben Johnson and Carl Lewis ran split times of 4.67 for 40 meters ( Bryan, Rose-Hulman) The split times are below.
.
1.84 10 yd
2.86 20 (1.02 split)
3.8 30 (.94 split)
4.67 40 (.87 split)
.
40 meters is 43.74 yards. This would make the distance approximately ten percent further. This means we could reduce the time by approximately .36 seconds to account for the additional 3.7 yards. This would mean that in constant acceleration mode the best sprinters in the history of the world, using blocks, ran 4.31 for 40 yards. Does it seem plausible that high school football players can run faster times without blocks.

[B_Ambuehl]

A lot of scouts don't stop the clock until the player is all the way across and thru the line, effectively making the distance closer to 45 yards, which does make a substantial difference.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

40 Yard Dash
February 2, 2010 in: 40 yard dash
The Truth About Speed, NFL Combines and the 40 Yard Dash!


Two coaches that I respect greatly, Mike Boyle & Nick Tumminello, wrote this great article on 40 yard dash speed times. Enjoy!

The Truth About Speed, NFL Combines and the 40 Yard Dash!
By: Mike Boyle & Nick Tumminello at nicktumminello.com

Speed is the stuff of urban legend. Deion Sanders supposedly showed up at the NFL Combine, ran a 4.2 and went home. We routinely hear of high school kids who purportedly run 4.3’s and 4.4’s. The stories of “reported” speed have gotten out of control. This would not be a problem in and of itself. Most of us could look at it and say “so what” people lie or people embellish. The real problem is that the lies seem to be setting the standard. One of the reasons that I no longer train athletes for the NFL Combine is the unrealistic expectations of athletes and agents based on these “urban legends” or the occasional freakish performance like Vernon Davis this year.
.
1- Electronic start- electronic finish. This should be the standard but, unfortunately is not. The start is done with a touch pad and the finish with a photocell. This is the most accurate and as a result yields the slowest times. An electronic start/ electronic finish time has been shown to be .22 seconds slower than a hand held 40 yard dash. ( Brown, 2004)
.
2- Hand Start- electronic finish. This is a system used uniquely at the NFL Combine. A hand start-electronic finish will be approximately .1 seconds slower than a hand held 40 yard dash. In the combine the use of hand start will be particularly evident in the faster ten yard dash times. Athletes will run 10 yard times much closer to a hand held but, times at each following split will be closer to the electronic time.
.
3- Hand Start- hand finish- this is the fastest and least accurate. Handheld times tend to be faster but are clearly more prone to human error. Many of the legendary times I believe were hand-held timing combined with human error or human expectation.
.
At the NFL Combine in 1996, 97, 98, 2001 and 2003 and 2006 no one ran a 4.2. No one. Not one person. In 2001 Ladainian Tomlinson ran one 4.36, five in the 4.4’s and vertical jumped 40.5. 2003 was a fast year, yet still produced no 4.2’s. Ten athletes ran 4.3’s in 2003. The heaviest was a 223 pound running back. The Combine track is always said to be slow but the truth is it is simply accurate. All of these supposed fast times seem to be run at times when no independent verification is available. Seems a bit curious doesn’t it.
.
Here’s another angle on the whole “speed” thing. Ben Johnson and Carl Lewis ran split times of 4.67 for 40 meters ( Bryan, Rose-Hulman) The split times are below.
.
1.84 10 yd
2.86 20 (1.02 split)
3.8 30 (.94 split)
4.67 40 (.87 split)
.
40 meters is 43.74 yards. This would make the distance approximately ten percent further. This means we could reduce the time by approximately .36 seconds to account for the additional 3.7 yards. This would mean that in constant acceleration mode the best sprinters in the history of the world, using blocks, ran 4.31 for 40 yards. Does it seem plausible that high school football players can run faster times without blocks.


Consistency in methodology is key.

[Frosty]

If they would put an electronic gate at the beginning as well as at the end, it would end all of the speculation.

[Saccopoo]

Yes, it is.

Guys like Maclin, Harvin, etc, who all run 4.3s consistently, ran 4.4+ on that track.

Last year, the buzz out of the combine was how "slow" everyone seemed. Well, it wasn't their lack of speed, it was the surface.

It's 1/10 of a second slower than the old field at RCA.

Since they are all running on it, the times are relative regardless if it is a "fast" track or a "slow" track.

[Mecca]

If Haden can't get under 4.5 he's going to fall out of the top 10 so it's way more than 10 mill.

[Miles]

If they would put an electronic gate at the beginning as well as at the end, it would end all of the speculation.

I am not nearly as heavy into the workings of the combine as others but I don't really get why it isn't entirely electronic timed.

[Frosty]

I am not nearly as heavy into the workings of the combine as others but I don't really get why it isn't entirely electronic timed.

I'm guessing that there is some problem with getting a consistent start because of different heights of the player (i.e. what part of the body triggers the start). However, I am sure they have that figured out in the track and field world. It seems stupid relying on the reflexes of some schmo sitting at the starting line to start the clock, especially when you consider the difference in money that a tenth of a second could mean.

[Miles]

I'm guessing that there is some problem with getting a consistent start because of different heights of the player (i.e. what part of the body triggers the start). However, I am sure they have that figured out in the track and field world. It seems stupid relying on the reflexes of some schmo sitting at the starting line to start the clock, especially when you consider the difference in money that a tenth of a second could mean.

Yeah track is the first thing that comes to mind where you have a foot of difference between someone like Holliday and other sprinters.

[Titty Meat]

What was Revis's 40 jw? I think we are overrating 40 times just a bit.

[Mecca]

Revis ran a 4.38, so not a good comparison.

[BossChief]

Whats the site some of you use to find combine times?

[Mecca]

They're all posted on NFL.com but you can find them on NFLDC pretty easily.

[Titty Meat]

Revis ran a 4.38, so not a good comparison.

I'm sure 40 times mean alot anyway.

[Titty Meat]

And for the record Revis didn't workout at the combine.

[KCChiefsMan]

If Berry ran a 4.6 I would still want him at #5. 40 times are overrated

[Chiefnj2]

And for the record Revis didn't workout at the combine.

Exactly. You can't compare a hand time at a different event to a combine time. Plus whose time are people talking about? His agent? There are 30 people taking times at pro days crowded around the finish line at different angles. There is no way in hell the 30 people all end up with nearly the same time.

[BossChief]

Exactly. You can't compare a hand time at a different event to a combine time. Plus whose time are people talking about? His agent? There are 30 people taking times at pro days crowded around the finish line at different angles. There is no way in hell the 30 people all end up with nearly the same time.

you would be surprised how close they get.

[redsurfer11]

Haden was on ESPN radio today. He said he was wearing the wrong cleats and was having back problems. Even with a sore back he decided to run. He also says he expects to run a 4.3 on his Pro day on March 17th. If he runs a 4.3 he moves back into the top 7.

[KCChiefsMan]

40 times are overrated

[KCDC]

40 times are overrated

I have to believe so. We are talking one-tenth of a second. I know corners need catch up speed, but is a tenth of a second going to matter to a CB who is out of position, falls or bites on the out move? Give me a smarter, more agile football player and I'll not care about a tenth or two.

What was Flowers speed at the combine? Anyone remember?

[Saccopoo]

I have to believe so. We are talking one-tenth of a second. I know corners need catch up speed, but is a tenth of a second going to matter to a CB who is out of position, falls or bites on the out move? Give me a smarter, more agile football player and I'll not care about a tenth or two.

What was Flowers speed at the combine? Anyone remember?

Flowers ran a 4.58 at the combine. Took him from a top 15 player to the second round.

However, Flowers also possesses a fantastic hip swivel which allows him to stay with receivers in breaks and plays on the ball better than "faster" guys.

Personally, I don't think that Haden's time is that big of a deal. The guy is exceptional in his ability to stay on a receivers hips and instinctively play the ball.

[Mecca]

CB is the 1 position that it completely matters to in relation to draft position.

[Saccopoo]

CB is the 1 position that it completely matters to in relation to draft position.

To a certain degree. I think that there are intangibles that don't show up in a 40 yard dash that have a significant impact on a guys real in-game speed versus a track and field sprint. Hip turn, footwork, etc. Flowers is the poster boy for that, and Haden is very similar in that he's got superb backpeddle, hip turn and balance. He's as fast as anyone on the field in pads. Blankets guys completely. Ask Marshawn Gilyard. He'll tell you.

[Chiefnj2]

40 time will drop a top CB but it doesn't seem to bump guys much. The kids from Boise and Rutgers ran respectable times and showed good fluidity and change of motion, but they didn't really jump up draft boards. I know it isn't a position of need, but if you are going strictly by a BAP methodology KC could choose either of them in the 2nd.

[Mecca]

Kyle Wilson is probably a 1st rounder at this point.

[Titty Meat]

Mecca where were you dude?

[Mr. Laz]

40 times are generally overrated but for a cornerback they should do help.

they need to faster than WR to really relax and play comfortable ... if they can can "outrun the ball" on the deep timing patterns it really helps too.

WR's know where they are going so they can technique their way


the cornerback position is where speed and quickness in most important