Clausen & Quinn

[Ralphy Boy]

Okay, so its easy to say now that Quinn sucks but seriously how different were they when they both came out of college?

Both look like big d-bags but Clausen was more accurate. Any fans of ND on here that can give a fairly unbiased view as to why Clausen is more likely to be a success than Quinn?

Brady Quinn's final season college stats:
289 of 467, 62% completion, 3,426 yards, 37 TD, 7 INT

Clausen's final season college stats:
289 of 425, 68% completion, 3,722 yards 28 TD, 4 INT

[The Franchise]

Quinn had a running game his last year at Notre Dame. Clausen did not.

[Brock]

The knock on Quinn coming out was that he was kind of robotic. That turned out to be true, looks like. IMO, Clausen is more of a playmaker when the play doesn't go the way it's drawn up.

[Nightfyre]

Clausen's accuracy and play in two minute drills.
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[chiefzilla1501]

Brady Quinn does NOT have very good accuracy. He's a real smart QB, makes great decisions, and is athletic enough and can make most of the throws. But he doesn't put the ball exactly in the right spot every time.

I remember hearing this concern before the draft. They said he can afford to barely miss those receivers in college. But in the pros, those inches turn into INTs.

[Saccopoo]

Quinn had a running game his last year at Notre Dame. Clausen did not.

And Clausen had two elite level wide receivers that he could throw to in Tate and Floyd and a pretty solid offensive line. Most NFL teams don't have that level of bookend wideouts.

I think Clausen is more a product of a good system than anything else. Even more so than Quinn. He's definitely less mobile that Quinn and is smaller physically.

[The Franchise]

And Clausen had two elite level wide receivers that he could throw to in Tate and Floyd and a pretty solid offensive line. Most NFL teams don't have that level of bookend wideouts.

I think Clausen is more a product of a good system than anything else. Even more so than Quinn. He's definitely less mobile that Quinn and is smaller physically.

Let me guess....you've seen his highlight videos on YouTube?

Jeff Samardzija and Maurice Stovall were great college football receivers....so don't act like fucking Quinn had no one to throw too. Plus he had John Carlson and Anthony Fasano as well. Plus Quinn actually had a line that blocked for him.

[RustShack]

The completion percentage says it all. Plus Clausen is physically more talented, and more polished playing under Weis longer.

[Saccopoo]

Let me guess....you've seen his highlight videos on YouTube?

Jeff Samardzija and Maurice Stovall were great college football receivers....so don't act like ****ing Quinn had no one to throw too. Plus he had John Carlson and Anthony Fasano as well. Plus Quinn actually had a line that blocked for him.

Fucking please. The Shark and Stovall are not in the same league as Tate and Floyd, and you know it. Why would you even try to sell that shit around here?

And are you saying that Young and Olsen didn't try to block? Olsen played as hard as any OL this past season.

It may be your wet fucking dream to have a Domer on the Chiefs as QB, but you should appreciate Joe Montana's contributions to the franchise than trying to sell a mediocre guy like Clausen as a potential top five first rounder for this franchise.

[ChiefsCountry]

than trying to sell a mediocre guy like Clausen as a potential top five first rounder for this franchise.

Coming from the dipshit who wants us to draft even more mediocre suck ass player that is classic irony at work.

[Saccopoo]

Coming from the dipshit who wants us to draft even more mediocre suck ass player that is classic irony at work.

And what player would you be referring to?

[The Franchise]

Fucking please. The Shark and Stovall are not in the same league as Tate and Floyd, and you know it. Why would you even try to sell that shit around here?

And are you saying that Young and Olsen didn't try to block? Olsen played as hard as any OL this past season.

It may be your wet fucking dream to have a Domer on the Chiefs as QB, but you should appreciate Joe Montana's contributions to the franchise than trying to sell a mediocre guy like Clausen as a potential top five first rounder for this franchise.

Are they in the same league? No. Floyd and Tate have actual NFL talent. But don't fucking say that Samardzija and Stovall didn't fucking own in the college ranks. Plus he had not 1 but 2 NFL starting TEs at his disposal.....and an actual running game.

Plus look at the offensive line that Quinn had compared to Clausen.

I had my wet dream when Joe Montana was the Chief's QB. Now I just want an actual franchise QB....which I believe Clausen can be and Cassel is not.

Now go back to jerking off Okung and Baluga.

[Crush]

Okung's Sac is the ultimate True Fan troll.
Posted via Mobile Device

[chiefzilla1501]

And Clausen had two elite level wide receivers that he could throw to in Tate and Floyd and a pretty solid offensive line. Most NFL teams don't have that level of bookend wideouts.

I think Clausen is more a product of a good system than anything else. Even more so than Quinn. He's definitely less mobile that Quinn and is smaller physically.

Is that why Clausen went 4-1 last season when Floyd was out with an injury?

[Mecca]

Clausen played behind a pretty awful OL, that should be factored in.

[Saccopoo]

Clausen played behind a pretty awful OL, that should be factored in.

They are going to have two players from that offensive line drafted in Young and Olsen. How many teams get two offensive line guys drafted in the same draft? That doesn't say horrible to me.

There are two Jimmy Clausen's. The sophomore that tossed 17 picks and the junior who tossed 4. Is he a product of the system more than being a franchise level quarterback?

And I don't like his lack of mobility. A quarterback has to have some degree of maneuverability. He hasn't shown any. I understand that he played with ligament damage in his foot (which is as big a physical red flag as McCoy or Bradford's shoulders), but he's never shown any propensity to be anything other than a pure pocket passer and I'd worry about that at the next level.

Quinn had a better senior season than Clausen had as a junior, has better mobility, is more prototype in terms of his physical attributes and yet hasn't been able to put it together in the NFL. I'd worry about Clausen being the same type of guy without the physical skills.

He reminds me of a Jay Cutler without the mobility and the big arm. A highly touted prospective quarterback that was never able to lead his team beyond mediocrity.

[Ralphy Boy]

Okay, so what if we end up trading 1st's with Cleveland and our compensation is just Quinn?

Given how everyone has noted their feelings about the two, would that make any of you happy? In other words, is the Weis/Quinn history enough to make anyone believe that hanging on to our first and getting Quinn for a song (200 point trade difference = the #78 pick in the draft) is almost the equivalent of drafting Clausen?

I have to believe that since the best we have seen out of Quinn was under Weis, he'd certainly become a much better QB than he's been.

Personally, I think that Cleveland is probably interested in getting Clausen and I think there is a deal in the works to trade with them if Clausen is there at #5 on draft day.

[chiefzilla1501]

They are going to have two players from that offensive line drafted in Young and Olsen. How many teams get two offensive line guys drafted in the same draft? That doesn't say horrible to me.

There are two Jimmy Clausen's. The sophomore that tossed 17 picks and the junior who tossed 4. Is he a product of the system more than being a franchise level quarterback?
#1 - Uhh.... you don't think throwing 17 picks has anything to do with learning to play on the college level? I can't believe it's a surprise to you that a college player would get better with experience.
#2 - Unlike most QBs, he played in a pro offense. And by the way, that pro offense is going to be very similar to the one the Chiefs will run. He may be a product of the system, but it happens to be Weis' system. What's the problem here? It's not like we're talking about a spread monkey who hasn't proven he can run a complex NFL offense.

And I don't like his lack of mobility. A quarterback has to have some degree of maneuverability. He hasn't shown any. I understand that he played with ligament damage in his foot (which is as big a physical red flag as McCoy or Bradford's shoulders), but he's never shown any propensity to be anything other than a pure pocket passer and I'd worry about that at the next level
You need to watch the clips. He moves pretty well and throws very well on the run. Not even close to Cassel's athleticism, but the best QBs know how to slide around in the pocket.

Quinn had a better senior season than Clausen had as a junior, has better mobility, is more prototype in terms of his physical attributes and yet hasn't been able to put it together in the NFL. I'd worry about Clausen being the same type of guy without the physical skills.
Again, it's called getting better with experience. And by the way, Quinn had a better season based on what? Win-loss record? Quinn had a much better team, particularly on defense, than Clausen had to work with.

He reminds me of a Jay Cutler without the mobility and the big arm. A highly touted prospective quarterback that was never able to lead his team beyond mediocrity.
We'll see.

[KCDC]

From the NFP:

At this point, the Carolina Panthers aren't a potential destination for Cleveland Browns quarterback Brady Quinn.

According to the Charlotte Observer, there hasn't been any interest on the Panthers' part.

Quinn is on the trading block.

Now that the Cleveland Browns have signed Jake Delhomme, traded for Seneca Wallace and cut Derek Anderson in remaking their quarterback situation, there's no room for Quinn.

As the report notes, Quinn has connections in Cleveland.

He played for quarterbacks coach Rip Scherer as a rookie.

And his head coach, John Fox, is friends with Charlie Weis, who coached Quinn at Notre Dame.

Until Quinn is released, which seems to be the most likely scenario, there's unlikely to be a lot of interest around the league since no one wants to assume his contract.

The Panthers probably aren't the only closed door.

[Ralphy Boy]

Well this thread is dead now, with Quinn going to Denver. I'm shocked KC let the Denver trade go down and it really makes me think we must be considering taking Clausen if he's there. My kneejerk reaction is Weis has convinced Pioli & Haley to take Clausen if he's there. I'm not excited about it, but right now I think it'll happen.

[pkane]

Quinn had a running game his last year at Notre Dame. Clausen did not.

Actually Quinns team in his last year only outgained Clausens team by 95 yards on the year. Also, Clausens team avg. more rushing yards per game.

[Chris Meck]

I think pretty much EVERY QB is a 'system QB'. As in, they all need to be in the right system for their skill set in order to be as good as they can be.

Clausen's got a good enough arm and would appear to have enough accuracy to play in any offense. Doesn't mean he'll neccessarily be successful, but he's got the physical ability. I don't understand why anyone would say he's a 'system QB'. It's not like he was playing in the spread.

[Tribal Warfare]

I think pretty much EVERY QB is a 'system QB'. As in, they all need to be in the right system for their skill set in order to be as good as they can be.

Clausen's got a good enough arm and would appear to have enough accuracy to play in any offense. Doesn't mean he'll neccessarily be successful, but he's got the physical ability. I don't understand why anyone would say he's a 'system QB'. It's not like he was playing in the spread.

He ran Weis's offense superbly, and didn't really go outside the bounds of it like a playground ball, like Favre and Elway. When he had to move he did, but he didn't rely on his raw athletic ability like the QBs I mentioned.

[Saccopoo]

I think pretty much EVERY QB is a 'system QB'. As in, they all need to be in the right system for their skill set in order to be as good as they can be.

Clausen's got a good enough arm and would appear to have enough accuracy to play in any offense. Doesn't mean he'll neccessarily be successful, but he's got the physical ability. I don't understand why anyone would say he's a 'system QB'. It's not like he was playing in the spread.

There is a lot of variations in both systems and there are plenty of "pro style" systems that focus heavily on the passing attack versus a running game. Weis likes to air out the ball - a lot. That the quarterback operated under center in some instances versus primarily in a shotgun doesn't mean that they didn't throw the ball as much as you would see in a spread. Clausen threw the ball a lot. Brady Quinn before him threw the ball a lot. It's why they both had very high attempts and yardage and passing TD's (especially Quinn, who had 95 in his career versus 57 for Clausen).

Weis' "system" is very pass oriented regardless of it being a pro-style versus a spread. And that's what I meant when I said that Clausen was potentially a product of the system. Weis' qb's put up a ton of yardage and TD's. It is a very pass friendly offense. (Personally, I think having Weis will really help Cassel and Haley. Haley can go beat on the receivers and get his foot out of Cassel's ass and let Charlie take the guy under his wing.)

There is very few teams at any level still using the traditional "pro-style" offense of the quarterback operating under center for the majority of the snaps and the backfield utilizing two backs in a power right/left or "I" formation. Look at the Super Bowl as an example. For the vast majority of the plays, both teams ran a "spread" type offense with the quarterback in a drop and multiple receiver sets.

The true "pro-style" set might not yet be a dinosaur, but it's trudging it's way towards extinction on the heels of the Stellar Sea Cow and Dodo Bird.

[Chiefshrink]

Well this thread is dead now, with Quinn going to Denver. I'm shocked KC let the Denver trade go down and it really makes me think we must be considering taking Clausen if he's there. My kneejerk reaction is Weis has convinced Pioli & Haley to take Clausen if he's there. I'm not excited about it, but right now I think it'll happen.

Agree. Yes we have many needs but Cassel doesn't have any competition to make him improve. Which is bigger, Pioli's ego $$ to Cassel or Weis's? We will soon find out:shrug:

[Chris Meck]

Well, I think you misuse the term 'system quarterback' then. He's a 'system QB' because they threw the ball a lot?

The 'spread' is a problem for projecting QB's because it inflates stats at the college level. a 'pro style' offense doesn't. A 68% completion rate while throwing "a lot" and 'often from under center' should be a major plus, not a potential minus.

Again, I'm not saying I think Claussen's going to be great OR crap, I just don't think the criteria you're using-or maybe the terminology- is correct.

[Saccopoo]

Well, I think you misuse the term 'system quarterback' then. He's a 'system QB' because they threw the ball a lot?

No I didn't. Both Clausen and Quinn were products of Charlie Weis' system, which focused on a passing attack as the primary method to generate offensive production. That's a "system." Much like the modern West Coast concept that originated out of LaVell Edward's BYU program in the early 1970's. Don Coryell also employed a similar concept in the mid-70's. Just because they are operating under center for a number of snaps doesn't make it any less of an offensive quarterback oriented "system" than a spread/shotgun "system."

The 'spread' is a problem for projecting QB's because it inflates stats at the college level. a 'pro style' offense doesn't.

Weis' system does. Look at Quinn and Clausen's stats. Quinn was even more prolific than Clausen, throwing for over 90 touchdowns in his career. Both threw for over 3,500 yards in a single college season. That's huge statistical inflation for a college quarterback.

In fact, a lot of "spread systems" don't inflate a quarterbacks offensive numbers. The spread system utilized by Urban Meyer and his coaching tree (Utah) focuses on a mobile quarterback running a ground option offense versus what you see out of the Stoops spread system (OU, KU), which is more of a pass oriented system. Oklahoma State has been right at the 50/50 line in terms of pass/rush while running their spread system.

A 68% completion rate while throwing "a lot" and 'often from under center' should be a major plus, not a potential minus.

Like I said, it's not necessarily where the quarterback lines up initially. It's how the offense is employed. Weis' system was very pass oriented and led to monster stats by his quarterbacks. That they were sometimes under center versus primarily in a drop back is irrelevant in terms of generating or not generating inflated quarterback statistics.

[Saccopoo]

As an example, Clausen in his final year at ND, in 12 games, threw for 3,722 yards, 28 touchdowns and a 8.76 yard per attempt average. (425 attempts)

Brady Quinn, in his junior year, threw for 3,919 yards, 32 touchdowns and a 8.71 ypa average. (450 attempts)

By comparison, Sam Bradford, who is the poster boy for spread inflated QB stats, in this last full season at OU, had only 33 more passing attempts than Clausen did. However, Bradford threw for 4,720 yards (a 9.77 ypa) and 50 touchdowns.

Also by comparison, Tim Tebow, in his most prolific passing season, had 350 attempts for 3286 yards (9.39 ypa) and 32 touchdowns.

Zac Robinson of OSU, in his most prolific year, had 314 attempts for 3064 yards (9.76 ypa) and 25 TDs.

While Weis' system might be initially defined as a "pro style" system, it most certainly focuses on the passing game first and foremost and contributes to elevating a quarterbacks statistics as much as the most prolific spread systems.

[Fritz88]

i am saying it right now, i have changed my opinion completely of Clausen. I believe he is going to be mediocre at best if not a bust.

MMW

Mark. My. Words.

[BossChief]

I think Clausen could be a potential bust if he falls into the wrong situation, but that can be said of almost any qb coming out.

If he goes to a team with good coaching, he will be a probowl calibur qb that has the tools to win playoff games.