Brady Quinn to Denver

[Sure-Oz]

Jay_Glazer

I'm reporting brady quinn was just traded to denver for peyton hillis and 2 conditional draft picks 2 minutes ago via UberTwitter

Adam_Schefter

Broncos traded FB Peyton Hillis, a 2011 6th-round draft selection and a late-round 2012 pick to Cleveland for quarterback Brady Quinn. less than a minute ago via UberTwitter

[teedubya]

Damn, that means we wont be able to trade Cassel to the Donx. Damn.

[BigRedChief]

yep, way too steep a price for the Chiefs. Claussen now?

[doomy3]

Wonder what the two picks are?

[kstater]

LMAO

They gave up 2 draft picks plus a player for Brady Quinn?

[Basileus777]

It will be interesting to see what those picks are. Denver shouldn't have given up much, Quinn is terrible.

[chiefzilla1501]

Good.

Brady Quinn is not a good Quarterback. This trade just further reinforces my view that this organization has no idea what the fuck they're doing after they lost Shanahan.

[BigMeatballDave]

Quinn is one of the greatest QB prospects ever. The greatest coach ever will make him the best QB ever/Homo

[Sure-Oz]

I thought Kyle Orton was the man in denver

[The Franchise]

Dear Brady Quinn,

You're fucking dead to me.

Walk into an Aids Tree.

Die in a fire.


Warmest Regards,

Pestilence

[LaChapelle]

I hope he knows how to drink

[Buck]

This makes Denver an immediate SB contender.

/KnowMo

[DaFace]

I can't argue with the PLAYERS the Broncos are bringing in this offseason, but is sure seems like they're willing to overpay (both in terms of contracts and trades).

[Mr. Arrowhead]

knowshit to tell us he will an NFL MVP in two years
in
3
2
1.......

[Fritz88]

I don't think he will do much in Denver.

[-King-]

So is Kyle still the probowler KnoHomo thinks he is? If so, why did the Broncos trade for Quinn?

[LaChapelle]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=90006

[MMXcalibur]

Oh heavens to betsy.....not Quinn!!!! We're in deep shit now.

[dirk digler]

depends on what the draft picks are whether this is a good trade or not

[Gonzo]

Thank god... I wanted nothing to do with him.
There's going to be quite a mediocrity competition between him and Aborton this year.
Posted via Mobile Device

[HerculesRockefell]

Depends on the draft picks. It's been obvious for awhile that McDaniels really wanted Quinn. The Browns were the ones that pulled out of the Cutler sweepstakes, which is what sent JC to Chicago. It also came out during the season that Denver tried to trade for him again at the draft last year.

But fuck, if McDaniels gave up a lot for that crotch grabber . . .

[teedubya]

To the arm floatie!!

[doomy3]

Adam_Schefter

Broncos traded FB Peyton Hillis, a 2011 6th-round draft selection and a late-round 2012 pick to Cleveland for quarterback Brady Quinn.
less than 20 seconds ago via UberTwitter

[Sure-Oz]

Adam_Schefter

Broncos traded FB Peyton Hillis, a 2011 6th-round draft selection and a late-round 2012 pick to Cleveland for quarterback Brady Quinn. less than a minute ago via UberTwitter

[Mecca]

Thank god... I wanted nothing to do with him.
There's going to be quite a mediocrity competition between him and Aborton this year.
Posted via Mobile Device

Basically the same as what would happen had he been traded here.

I also think everyone needs to get over the Clausen shit, I just don't see that happening at all.

[HerculesRockefell]

Adam_Schefter

Broncos traded FB Peyton Hillis, a 2011 6th-round draft selection and a late-round 2012 pick to Cleveland for quarterback Brady Quinn. less than a minute ago via UberTwitter

If that's the deal, I have no problem with it.

[-King-]

2012 pick? Holy shit..really?

[BigRedChief]

I also think everyone needs to get over the Clausen shit, I just don't see that happening at all.Never underestimate the personal feelings a coach has for a player.

[Mecca]

Nothing wrong with that deal, late picks and a FB for a QB.

[Mecca]

Never underestimate the personal feelings a coach has for a player.

Never underestimate a GM not wanting to admit he was wrong, notice how Vrabel was resigned.

[BigRedChief]

If Quinn was got for 6th round picks in 2011 and 2012, there is something up at One Arrowheads drive.

[BryanBusby]

Peyton Hillis is a pretty good player

[RNR]

Nothing wrong with that deal, late picks and a FB for a QB.
Agreed I don't think Denver got hurt at all in that trade~

[Gonzo]

Basically the same as what would happen had he been traded here.

I also think everyone needs to get over the Clausen shit, I just don't see that happening at all.

Pretty much.

There would be an epic meltdown if they draft Claussen. I never say never with K.C's draftardation though...
Posted via Mobile Device

[dirk digler]

Adam_Schefter

Broncos traded FB Peyton Hillis, a 2011 6th-round draft selection and a late-round 2012 pick to Cleveland for quarterback Brady Quinn. less than a minute ago via UberTwitter

That is a good deal for the Donks

[doomy3]

If Quinn was got for 6th round picks in 2011 and 2012, there is something up at One Arrowheads drive.

They didn't want him?

[Old Dog]

That is a good deal for the Donks

This

[Basileus777]

It's an ok deal. Denver didn't give up much, but I don't think it's terribly likely Quinn every amounts to anything.

[doomy3]

mortreport

Very funny about Brady Quinn trade to Denver. Was talking last night w/ someone who suggested C. Weis would love to have BQ in KC.
3 minutes ago via web

[Mecca]

Something's up?

It's called Cassel is Pioli's guy and he doesn't want to create a QB controversy.

[-King-]

Damn, I really wanted to talk shit to Donk fans. But it was really a good deal so...

[chiefzilla1501]

Never underestimate a GM not wanting to admit he was wrong, notice how Vrabel was resigned.

Bullshit.

Is that why Chad Jackson was cut after only 2 seasons after trading up to get him?
Is that why Cassel's contract is basically a 2-year contract with an out clause in his third season?
And I hardly see how signing Vrabel to a 1-year contract is admitting Pioli made a mistake

I know, I know. I'm a Pioli dick-sucker, apparently. I just don't understand these baseless accusations that Pioli doesn't listen to his coaches and is too much of a hothead to admit he was wrong. I can't think of a single transaction in New England where this was the case. Can you?

[tk13]

Don't forget Quinn played for Weis, as well.

[DeezNutz]

They didn't want him?

True.

Or, Dayton Pioli is dumb as fuck.

[Mecca]

Chad Jackson blew out his knee.....that's a little different.

[Mecca]

Bullshit.

Is that why Chad Jackson was cut after only 2 seasons after trading up to get him?
Is that why Cassel's contract is basically a 2-year contract with an out clause in his third season?
And I hardly see how signing Vrabel to a 1-year contract is admitting Pioli made a mistake

I know, I know. I'm a Pioli dick-sucker, apparently. I just don't understand these baseless accusations that Pioli doesn't listen to his coaches and is too much of a hothead to admit he was wrong. I can't think of a single transaction in New England where this was the case. Can you?

Players they don't admit they were wrong on...Laurence Maroney is STILL there.

Using a 2nd round pick like Chad Jackson as an example is kinda weak, he got hurt and all that jazz. Cassel is Pioli's first move as a new GM, I have a hard time seeing him just readily admitting he fucked up.

[doomy3]

True.

Or, Dayton Pioli is dumb as ****.

Piloi is dumb as fuck because he didn't want Quinn? Apparently, a lot of teams didn't want him, since all the Browns could get was a couple sixth round picks and a fullback.

[DeezNutz]

We're one draft away from knowing, with much accuracy, what we need to know about Pioli.

[chiefzilla1501]

Chad Jackson blew out his knee.....that's a little different.

I don't think it's that much different. And again, why do you think he's so egotistical that he doesn't listen to his coaches?

Isn't the insult against him that he was a product of Bill Belichick? And that Belichick basically told him what to do? Why would it be any different in KC?

[-King-]

Did anyone here really WANT Quinn anyway? He maybe an upgrade from Cassel, but upgrading from a pile of shit to a slightly smaller pile of shit means nothing in the long run.

[DeezNutz]

Piloi is dumb as **** because he didn't want Quinn? Apparently, a lot of teams didn't want him, since all the Browns could get was a couple sixth round picks and a fullback.

Up to this point, he's proven to be dumb as **** for a number of reasons.

But, yeah, I'd rather have one of "Weis's guys" for next to nothing than Cassel for the third richest contract in the league.

But that's me. Horse. Dead.

[Reaper16]

Seems worth it. Interesting.

[chief52]

It's an ok deal. Denver didn't give up much, but I don't think it's terribly likely Quinn every amounts to anything.

That is the way I see it... Kind of a non event.

[Reaper16]

@Adam_Schefter (http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter) As if Brady Quinn trade were not enough, Browns also traded OLB Kamerion Wimbley to the Raiders for a draft pick of some sort.

[Basileus777]

Quinn isn't an upgrade over anyone at this point. There's absolutely no reason to be angry at Pioli for this.

[dirk digler]

I doubt the Browns wanted any of our players

[DeezNutz]

Quinn isn't an upgrade over anyone at this point. There's absolutely no reason to be angry at Pioli for this.

Was he 45 or 46?

[Mecca]

I don't think it's that much different. And again, why do you think he's so egotistical that he doesn't listen to his coaches?

Isn't the insult against him that he was a product of Bill Belichick? And that Belichick basically told him what to do? Why would it be any different in KC?

How about because the guy talked about how he loved the preseason cut time and we put in 1 claim...for a guy from NE. How about because all we could do was sign or trade for trash from the tree?

How about the freezing out the past scouts story? How about drafting defensive players in a draft that was offensively strong because the 3-4 had to be shoehorned in?

How about that Mike Vrabel fucking got resigned when he sucks complete donkey dick.

[doomy3]

@Adam_Schefter (http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter) As if Brady Quinn trade were not enough, Browns also traded OLB Kamerion Wimbley to the Raiders for a draft pick of some sort.

That's kind of interesting. Wonder what they got for Wimbley?

[Mecca]

I'd have taken Wimbley seeing how starved this team is for rushers but hey don't worry we got Mike Vrabel resigned!

[Basileus777]

I'd have taken Wimbley seeing how starved this team is for rushers but hey don't worry we got Mike Vrabel resigned!

Now this might be a legitimate criticism (depends on what Oakland gave up). Not trading for a terrible quarterback that went for 2 late draft picks and a FB really isn't.

[Mecca]

Now this might be a legitimate criticism (depends on what Oakland gave up). Not trading for a terrible quarterback that went for 2 late draft picks and a FB really isn't.

Lots of people are just tired of Cassel is why that gets brought up.

I think it's pretty apparent this team is not going to make any QB moves.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Good deal for Denver.

Low risk, high reward.

[Sure-Oz]

This draft will definetly let us know our mastermind GM thinks, i hope some good picks are made to give me some hope

[chiefzilla1501]

How about because the guy talked about how he loved the preseason cut time and we put in 1 claim...for a guy from NE. How about because all we could do was sign or trade for trash from the tree?
Of course I don't like that decision. But I fail to see how this has anything to do with ego. Nothing this offseason has led me to believe that he is only interested in bringing ex-Patriots. We passed on Jarvis Green and Ben Watson, and didn't even try to make a play for Bodden.

How about the freezing out the past scouts story? How about drafting defensive players in a draft that was offensively strong because the 3-4 had to be shoehorned in?
I've never defended either of these two decisions. But that doesn't discount his history that he trusts his group of advisors. Now that he has his own scouts and coaches in place, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't listen to him.

How about that Mike Vrabel ****ing got resigned when he sucks complete donkey dick.
Your basis for this argument is really going to be around a veteran player signed to a 1-year contract that costs nothing against the cap?

Trading for Cassel was probably a big mistake. And it was probably a mistake of loyalty. But given the structure of his contract, I don't see any reason why you or anyone thinks that anyone in this organization is married to Cassel being a franchise QB.

[dirk digler]

Now this might be a legitimate criticism (depends on what Oakland gave up). Not trading for a terrible quarterback that went for 2 late draft picks and a FB really isn't.

I agree. He is young and would be a good fit here

[KCDC]

Denver got BQ for pretty cheap. The challenge for trading Quinn (for Cleveland) was that the acquiring team would have to assume the large contract. So, Denver assumes a large contract for Quinn, which uses up $$$ that Bowlen could redeploy elsewhere.

McDaniels thinks, apparently, he's a God at coaching QBs, so let's see what happens. If he brings BQ around to be a starter, they stole him. If not, they have more dead weight on their roster and a QB controversy to destabilize Orton, which would be fine for us.

[BigMeatballDave]

We're one draft away from knowing, with much accuracy, what we need to know about Pioli.Maybe. Though, if he does, I wonder how many of the haters will just say he got lucky, or will need additional season to see if he's for real.

[Sure-Oz]

JasonLaCanfora

The 2012 draft pick in the Brady Quinn trade can range from a mid-to-late round selection, based on performance. Another busy day for Browns

[Skyy God]

Players they don't admit they were wrong on...Laurence Maroney is STILL there.

Using a 2nd round pick like Chad Jackson as an example is kinda weak, he got hurt and all that jazz. Cassel is Pioli's first move as a new GM, I have a hard time seeing him just readily admitting he ****ed up.

On a relatively cheap contract, give he was the 21st pick. You can never have enough RBs.

[Mecca]

That's a bad argument, trading for Cassel prevented them from making a play on a QB in back to back years with a top 5 pick, there's more there than just "Oh well we can move on"

[OnTheWarpath15]

Denver got BQ for pretty cheap. The challenge for trading Quinn (for Cleveland) was that the acquiring team would have to assume the large contract. So, Denver assumes a large contract for Quinn, which uses up $$$ that Bowlen could redeploy elsewhere.

McDaniels thinks, apparently, he's a God at coaching QBs, so let's see what happens. If he brings BQ around to be a starter, they stole him. If not, they have more dead weight on their roster and a QB controversy to destabilize Orton, which would be fine for us.

What large contract?

They were just saying on Sirius NFL Radio this afternoon that Quinn's base salary is 700K in each of the next two seasons.

He only gets paid more if he hits certain performance clauses - and even then, it maxes out at $5M per.

[Mecca]

On a relatively cheap contract, give he was the 21st pick. You can never have enough RBs.

Maroney is fucking terrible, the fact that they haven't replaced them speaks to how shitty they've been drafting lately, Hootie could even draft a productive RB.

[LaChapelle]

What did the Browns pay for that fuck stick

[doomy3]

mortreport

Lot of teams were in Wimbley derby - think Browns got a 3rd round pick and Raiders' 3rd obviously higher than others.
1 minutes ago via web

[Sure-Oz]

Adam_Schefter

Last year the Browns could have had Jay Cutler for Brady Quinn. This year they got two late-round picks and Peyton Hillis. half a minute ago via UberTwitter

[dirk digler]

mortreport

Lot of teams were in Wimbley derby - think Browns got a 3rd round pick and Raiders' 3rd obviously higher than others.
1 minutes ago via web

No thanks

[Mecca]

I wonder how Eric Mangini still has a job...

[Mecca]

No thanks

We need that 3 so we can take a TE man.

[BigRedChief]

I think it's pretty apparent this team is not going to make any QB moves.How is it so apparent? With Cleveland wheeling and dealing like this the rumored of them swapping draft picks with KC gains some heft. They supposely want Berry. If Weiss thinks Claussen is the real deal, trading down and picking Claussen would be within the possibility.

[Titty Meat]

The source was wrong.

[Mecca]

I'm sorry, don't see it happening, if the Chiefs drop out of their 5th pick they're targeting an OT or Dan Williams.

[chiefzilla1501]

That's a bad argument, trading for Cassel prevented them from making a play on a QB in back to back years with a top 5 pick, there's more there than just "Oh well we can move on"

You're moving the goal posts.

Right now, I don't deny that Cassel was a mistake. I'm just calling you out for claiming that he's so egotistical that he won't admit a mistake when his coaches clearly want something else.

If Charlie Weis really wants Clausen, given Pioli's history in working with Belichick, he will probably get him. I'm not worried about Pioli's pride. I'm more worried about Pioli overlistening to his coach and not his scouts (assuming that the scouts believe that Clausen isn't a good pick... "assuming... hypothetically")

[-King-]

The source was wrong.

Didn't the source say "its a possibility"? He never said it like it was a sure thing.

[BigRedChief]

The source was wrong.Nope, check your email. The last thing "the source" told me was a done deal was the Crennel signing. Despite ESPN reporting it wasn't a done deal one hour later.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

You're moving the goal posts.

Right now, I don't deny that Cassel was a mistake. I'm just calling you out for claiming that he's so egotistical that he won't admit a mistake when his coaches clearly want something else.

If Charlie Weis really wants Clausen, given Pioli's history in working with Belichick, he will probably get him. I'm not worried about Pioli's pride. I'm more worried about Pioli overlistening to his coach and not his scouts (assuming that the scouts believe that Clausen isn't a good pick... "assuming... hypothetically")

Here's the problem:

Cassel wasn't just a mistake, he was a franchise-crushing mistake.

There is a difference between making a mistake on a Chad Jackson type deal and a Matt Cassel type deal, especially given the players you passed up to get Cassel.

[Mecca]

I won't be surprised if the Chiefs drop out but if they do that it's probably with a team that wants Clausen and then we wouldn't get Berry either.

[Titty Meat]

Nope, check your email.

Will do. I was hoping he'd be wrong on Quinn and right on Clausen.

[DeezNutz]

I won't be surprised if the Chiefs drop out but if they do that it's probably with a team that wants Clausen and then we wouldn't get Berry either.

If it's a scenario like the one posted in the other thread--where we're getting a 2011 first rounder from a team likely to be in the top 10--I'd be fine with that.

But I doubt we'd be that fortunate.

[Titty Meat]

Ahh ok somebody else said the deal involved Quinn. Thankfully they were wrong.

[Mecca]

I don't see any of those 20's teams coming up, the draft is deep and no one really wants to pay these top 5 contracts on top of the picks you have to give up.

What team did someone mention giving up next years 1st?

The bad scenario is if the Chiefs moved down with Cleveland, Cleveland would probably take Clausen, Seattle would take Berry and we'd then watch the Chiefs draft Bulaga.

[BigMeatballDave]

Nope, check your email. The last thing "the source" told me was a done deal was the Crennel signing. Despite ESPN reporting it wasn't a done deal one hour later.How often do you send out these emails? I've only gotten one.

[Brock]

Good grief, the crying is strong with this thread.

[BigMeatballDave]

Good grief, the crying is strong with this thread.
:LOL:

[RustShack]

We are drafting clausen
Posted via Mobile Device

[KCDC]

What large contract?

They were just saying on Sirius NFL Radio this afternoon that Quinn's base salary is 700K in each of the next two seasons.

He only gets paid more if he hits certain performance clauses - and even then, it maxes out at $5M per.

I was responding to the article in the National Football Post that said his large contract was scaring off suitors.

[BigRedChief]

Will do. I was hoping he'd be wrong on Quinn and right on Clausen.Still batting 100% after 4 years.:harumph:

[Mecca]

All I'm saying is I think anyone that really thought the Chiefs would attempt to make any kind of strong play for a QB this year was simply fooling themselves.

[Brock]

All I'm saying is I think anyone that really thought the Chiefs would attempt to make any kind of strong play for a QB this year was simply fooling themselves.

Yeah, it's totally unreasonable to think Weis might make a play for Clausen.

[DBOSHO]

Here's the problem:

Cassel wasn't just a mistake, he was a franchise-crushing mistake.

There is a difference between making a mistake on a Chad Jackson type deal and a Matt Cassel type deal, especially given the players you passed up to get Cassel.

LMAO

Can we give the guy more than 1 year?

[Mecca]

LMAO

Can we give the guy more than 1 year?

Did you by any chance watch him?

[BigRedChief]

How often do you send out these emails? I've only gotten one.Wheneve I got something tangible enough to bother with. Lots of BS and smoke and mirrors this time of the year. I get 2-3 rumor emails a day. Last one I sent out was from "the source" a couple of weeks a ago.

[DeezNutz]

LMAO

Can we give the guy more than 1 year?

No.

I would love to cut the worthless sumbitch right now.

[ChiefsCountry]

Fuck Quinn to Denver just sucks donkey balls. You know this will come back to haunt us.

[KCDC]

I don't see any of those 20's teams coming up, the draft is deep and no one really wants to pay these top 5 contracts on top of the picks you have to give up.

What team did someone mention giving up next years 1st?

The bad scenario is if the Chiefs moved down with Cleveland, Cleveland would probably take Clausen, Seattle would take Berry and we'd then watch the Chiefs draft Bulaga.

I do think this is a possibility now. I think Cleveland might be looking for Clausen (though being burnt once by a ND phenom may be enough) and offer to trade up to our #5 if Washington does not take him. Or they may trade up with the Redskins.

If they offered Pioli their #7 and a second rounder, he may bite, then we lose Clausen and Berry to Seattle potentially, and we are left with no recourse but take OL. Of course, if he was planning to go OL anyway, then it would be a deal to jump on.

[BigMeatballDave]

Wheneve I got something tangible enough to bother with. Lots of BS and smoke and mirrors this time of the year. I get 2-3 rumor emails a day. Last one I sent out was from "the source" a couple of weeks a ago.Ok, I was wrong. I've gotten more than one. I got that. Just checking. Thanks for sharing the intel, BTW.

[Mecca]

I do think this is a possibility now. I think Cleveland might be looking for Clausen (though being burnt once by a ND phenom may be enough) and offer to trade up to our #5 if Washington does not take him. Or they may trade up with the Redskins.

If they offered Pioli their #7 and a second rounder, he may bite, then we lose Clausen and Berry to Seattle potentially, and we are left with no recourse but take OL. Of course, if he was planning to go OL anyway, then it would be a deal to jump on.

The thing is I don't think the Redskins will go Clausen, I think they'd take Bradford...if it plays weird and McCoy or Suh end up there the Redskins probably take them they get one of the best 2 players in the draft at 4.

[DBOSHO]

He played really bad attimes. He played pretty well at times.

Saying he is "crushing the franchise" is crazy. Im all for drafting clausen, but jesus christ, everyone here acts like the are nostradamus and can tell the future.

Matt played TERRIBLE last season, but so did trent his 1st year here. I think charlie can make him a good qb. Oh, and it also doesnt help to have a revolving door at reciever.

[Mecca]

It's really hard for me to think we can win something with a QB that couldn't complete passes over 10 years when he had Randy Moss on his team.

[DeezNutz]

He played really bad attimes. He played pretty well at times.

Saying he is "crushing the franchise" is crazy. Im all for drafting clausen, but jesus christ, everyone here acts like the are nostradamus and can tell the future.

Matt played TERRIBLE last season, but so did trent his 1st year here. I think charlie can make him a good qb. Oh, and it also doesnt help to have a revolving door at reciever.

??????

No. No, he didn't. He was a fucking joke from start to finish.

His single best pass was the long strike at the start of the Denver game. Great pass. But the fact that it seemed like a remarkable fucking moment should speak volumes about the rest of his season.

[T-post Tom]

As much as I hate the Donks, I wouldn't be surprised to see BQ blossom into a good QB over the next few years. Getting out of that clusterf*ck in Cleveland can only be a good thing for him. [That said, McFister doesn't have a very good track record with NFL QBs so far.]

[BigRedChief]

Didn't the source say "its a possibility"? He never said it like it was a sure thing.I'm real careful about throwing around the "done deal" label. Always put the disclaimers in there. People can make their own choice to believe or not.

[Ralphy Boy]

mortreport

Very funny about Brady Quinn trade to Denver. Was talking last night w/ someone who suggested C. Weis would love to have BQ in KC.
3 minutes ago via web

Someone probably already beat me to it, but I think Weis was saying he'd "love to have BBQ in KC."

[DJ's left nut]

Damn.

Quinn going for that little really does make it seem like we're going to go down swinging with Cassel.

Quinn may not amount to much, but a couple of 6th round picks for the guy is nothing. If Weis really has much say in our QB position, I'd have to believe we'd have trumped that deal. At the very least I figure we would've bid harder in an attempt to drive the price up (knowing that if the Donx call our bluff, we at least have a QB the OC likes).

Yup, looks like we're rolling with Cassel. That or the FO has a major hard-on for Clausen and didn't want to create a QB controversy here.

I'm going to guess the former, seeing as how I'm pretty sure Pioli is a !@#$tard.

Crap.

[-King-]

Someone probably already beat me to it, but I think Weis was saying he'd "love to have BBQ in KC."

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[DBOSHO]

??????

No. No, he didn't. He was a fucking joke from start to finish.

His single best pass was the long strike at the start of the Denver game. Great pass. But the fact that it seemed like a remarkable fucking moment should speak volumes about the rest of his season.

Td pass to dbowe in the home raider game?
3rd and long pass at the end of the game to long i believe in the steeler game?
Td to bowe vs dallas at the end of the game?

Look, im not saying i want cassel starting next season, but to say the guy has no talent is wrong. He just doesnt show it consistently enough. If i had my way, id want brodie or claussen starting.

[DJ's left nut]

Td pass to dbowe in the home raider game?
3rd and long pass at the end of the game to long i believe in the steeler game?
Td to bowe vs dallas at the end of the game?

Look, im not saying i want cassel starting next season, but to say the guy has no talent is wrong. He just doesnt show it consistently enough. If i had my way, id want brodie or claussen starting.

Matt Cassel is a piece of shit.

I've gone into great detail. I've made the argument eloquently, thoroughly and convincingly. I have done so on many occasions and have yet to get a response any more substantive than "he just needs more time". If anyone does not understand that Matt Cassel is awful, I'm only belaboring the point while wasting my time and energy in attempting to educate a retard (i.e. Chiefzilla and sackoshit)

So henceforth in this kingdom, I am going with brevity over depth.

Matt Cassel is a piece of shit.

That is all.

[nychief]

I love all the fake indignation regarding Cassel, as though there was ever any indication that this organization had any intention of moving him, or even not playing him. From the moment we obtained Cassel in the trade, he has been the man at arrowhead, for better or worse. This FO thinks he is the answer at that position, end of discussion. Now is that the right call? I dunno. I do know that Brady Quinn is a joke.... I'd rather have Croyle.

[Quesadilla Joe]

Goddammit :cuss:

We didn't give up much for him but still. I fucking hate Brady Quinn.

[Brock]

Goddammit :cuss:

We didn't give up much for him but still. I fucking hate Brady Quinn.

LMAOLMAOLMAO

[DBOSHO]

Matt Cassel is a piece of shit.

I've gone into great detail. I've made the argument eloquently, thoroughly and convincingly. I have done so on many occasions and have yet to get a response any more substantive than "he just needs more time". If anyone does not understand that Matt Cassel is awful, I'm only belaboring the point while wasting my time and energy in attempting to educate a retard (i.e. Chiefzilla and sackoshit)

So henceforth in this kingdom, I am going with brevity over depth.

Matt Cassel is a piece of shit.

That is all.

agree to disagree.

[Ralphy Boy]

I'm shocked KC let the Denver trade go down and it really makes me think we must be considering taking Clausen if he's there. My kneejerk reaction is Weis has convinced Pioli & Haley to take Clausen if he's there. I'm not excited about it, but right now I think it'll happen.

[orange]

The bad scenario is if the Chiefs moved down with Cleveland, Cleveland would probably take Clausen, Seattle would take Berry and we'd then watch the Chiefs draft Bulaga.

Beats watching them sit still and draft Bulaga, doesn't it?

[nychief]

I'm shocked KC let the Denver trade go down and it really makes me think we must be considering taking Clausen if he's there. My kneejerk reaction is Weis has convinced Pioli & Haley to take Clausen if he's there. I'm not excited about it, but right now I think it'll happen.

i think you, and anybody else who thinks this will go down, are delusional.

[-King-]

Mort thinks the Raiders gave their 3rd for Wimbley.

[ChiefsCountry]

Matt Cassel is a piece of shit.

I've gone into great detail. I've made the argument eloquently, thoroughly and convincingly. I have done so on many occasions and have yet to get a response any more substantive than "he just needs more time". If anyone does not understand that Matt Cassel is awful, I'm only belaboring the point while wasting my time and energy in attempting to educate a retard (i.e. Chiefzilla and sackoshit)

So henceforth in this kingdom, I am going with brevity over depth.

Matt Cassel is a piece of shit.

That is all.

This a thousand times over.

[TRR]

I'm shocked KC let the Denver trade go down and it really makes me think we must be considering taking Clausen if he's there. My kneejerk reaction is Weis has convinced Pioli & Haley to take Clausen if he's there. I'm not excited about it, but right now I think it'll happen.

It's more like the Chiefs will go with Cassel and Croyle at QB next season, and will draft a need at #5 instead of Jimmy "my own fans punch me in the face" Clausen.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DaWolf]

I think this probably says more about how they feel about Croyle rather than saying anything about Cassel. Obviously at that price if the Chiefs wanted Quinn, they could have gotten him. If Pioli, Weis and Haley didn't think the guy was much of an upgrade over Croyle, then that explains why a deal was not made...

[DJ's left nut]

This a thousand times over.

JOIN THE MOVEMENT!!!!!

[DaWolf]

Interesting to note that the team that made this trade apparently was willing to trade Cutler for Quinn, ended up trading Cutler for Orton, and hade a first choice of Matt Cassel.

The team that did not make this deal had Both Quinn's head coach in college and in the NFL on staff.

[Bowser]

Cassel did not impress last year. He stuggled at the worst times, and an argument could have been made that Croyle would have been an instant upgrade at QB. That being said, I am looking forward to what Charlie Weis can do with a full offseason of preparation with Cassel, and how Cassel responds through the season with a dedicated offensive coordinator.

You don't have to like it, just accept it - Matt Cassel will be the starter for the Chiefs in 2010. And if he plays well, for many years afterwards.


I am also of the belief that we are not going to even sniff Clausen or Bradford (if either are there) with our 5 pick.

[BryanBusby]

Cassel did not impress last year. He stuggled at the worst times, and an argument could have been made that Croyle would have been an instant upgrade at QB. That being said, I am looking forward to what Charlie Weis can do with a full offseason of preparation with Cassel, and how Cassel responds through the season with a dedicated offensive coordinator.

You don't have to like it, just accept it - Matt Cassel will be the starter for the Chiefs in 2010. And if he plays well, for many years afterwards.


I am also of the belief that we are not going to even sniff Clausen or Bradford (if either are there) with our 5 pick.

The quicker people understand this the less likely they will say goodbye cruel world come draft day lol

[Pablo]

At least McKid has the foresight to go after a 1st round QB, they're the most probable to win a SuperBowl.

amirite?

[DJ's left nut]

Cassel did not impress last year. He stuggled at the worst times, and an argument could have been made that Croyle would have been an instant upgrade at QB. That being said, I am looking forward to what Charlie Weis can do with a full offseason of preparation with Cassel, and how Cassel responds through the season with a dedicated offensive coordinator.

You don't have to like it, just accept it - Matt Cassel will be the starter for the Chiefs in 2010. And if he plays well, for many years afterwards.


I am also of the belief that we are not going to even sniff Clausen or Bradford (if either are there) with our 5 pick.

Cassel is a piece of shit.

I should've done this a long time ago.

[Bowser]

At least McKid has the foresight to go after a 1st round QB, they're the most probable to win a SuperBowl.

amirite?

Josh is no dummy. He's a future HoFer. [/KnowMo]

[Quesadilla Joe]

Alright I'm off the ledge now. Charlie Weis has comforted me.


The point is that Weis believes in BQ. On day of the '07 draft, Charlie told me he believed BQ would be a top 5 or 6 QB once he got settled.

http://twitter.com/mortreport/status/10486257936

[orange]

Josh is no dummy. He's a future HoFer. [/KnowMo]

We're sure going to miss those 6ths in 2011 and 2012, I'll grant you that. :deevee:

[Quesadilla Joe]

No risk trade for Broncos. Getting Quinn for no picks this year is a steal for Denver and puts pressure on Kyle Orton.
http://twitter.com/michaelombardi/status/10485689259
If I am a Denver fan I believe McDaniels can do with Quinn what he did with Cassell and if I am a Brown fan I look draft a QB---earl
http://twitter.com/michaelombardi/status/10486042677

:) Warming up to this trade more and more

[Bane]

Josh is no dummy. He's a future HoFer. [/KnowMo]

ROFL

[HerculesRockefell]

A roster player who had a real chance of getting cut in TC, a 6th next year, and a pick in '12 that can't be any higher than a mid-round pick. Maybe Quinn will never become anything, but it's not like there's a real downside to this trade for Denver, the potential upside is huge.

[Quesadilla Joe]

Mark Sanchez has started 3 more games than Brady Quinn... BQ will get better with experience. Good fit with McDaniels and that system

http://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/10487158343


I wasn't in CLE when Quinn and Wimbley were picked but I got to know them both in my brief time there... both classy guys
http://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/10487196985



I don't agree with people that make absolute statements about QB's that haven't started 32 games in the league... too early to tell
http://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/10487247773

I think the Quinn trade was an easy call for DEN..A QB that knows the system and has starting potential for 2 late round picks
http://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/10487678248

:)

[vailpass]

The truth, as always, will be shown on the field. I like to see McKid active in the offseason.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the two newbie HCs in the AFC West (McKid & Haley) perform in their second year.
Bring on the draft, then mini-camps then pre-season then opening day and dont anyone FUCKING DARE let a lock-out occur.

[LaChapelle]

What no rottentomatoes rating

[RealSNR]

Beats watching them sit still and draft Bulaga, doesn't it?I'd rather draft Tyson Jackson AGAIN than take Bulaga.

It's not that he's a bad LT or that he can't really help the team out if we draft him. It's just the goddamn principle of being in charge of a team that fucking blows dried diarrhea that has absolutely ZERO playmakers apart from one or two on offense, and then you take the fat fuck.

It's a bad and fat decision. As bad and fat as Pioli is. He's bad at running a team, and he's fat. Badfat. That's what I'm going to call Pioli now. Badfat. All of Badfat's decisions are bad and fat.

Even Bulaga's name just resonates with the badfat philosophy. Bulaga. Buhlaga. Byewwwlahguh. BUHLAUGA!!! BLUAHG! Blalllllaguguhhahahuhhhhg.... bllllaaaauuuugawguegua

[Bane]

We're sure going to miss those 6ths in 2011 and 2012, I'll grant you that. :deevee:

With the Donkfukks drafting 4th or 5th in each round,those might be decent picks.

[BigChiefFan]

It's a decent move for them, but they have very little depth. Their starter isn't even that good, so they had to do something.

[BigMeatballDave]

I am also of the belief that we are not going to even sniff Clausen (if either are there) with our 5 pick.considering who our OC is, this is a ridiculous statement. I'm not saying it going to happen, in fact I would be surprised. But to say they would not even sniff him is silly.
Posted via Mobile Device

[doomy3]

Nope, check your email. The last thing "the source" told me was a done deal was the Crennel signing. Despite ESPN reporting it wasn't a done deal one hour later.

:spock:

This information is from "the source" so no grain of salt needed, IMHO.


Enter Brady Quinn. The Chiefs had talks with Cleveland a couple of weeks ago about a trade to KC. But, the Browns trade demands were really stupidly high so the talks went no where seriously. If the demands come down, Quinn will be a Chief.

[Ralphy Boy]

I'd rather draft Tyson Jackson AGAIN than take Bulaga.

It's not that he's a bad LT or that he can't really help the team out if we draft him. It's just the goddamn principle of being in charge of a team that ****ing blows dried diarrhea that has absolutely ZERO playmakers apart from one or two on offense, and then you take the fat ****.

It's a bad and fat decision. As bad and fat as Pioli is. He's bad at running a team, and he's fat. Badfat. That's what I'm going to call Pioli now. Badfat. All of Badfat's decisions are bad and fat.

Even Bulaga's name just resonates with the badfat philosophy. Bulaga. Buhlaga. Byewwwlahguh. BUHLAUGA!!! BLUAHG! Blalllllaguguhhahahuhhhhg.... bllllaaaauuuugawguegua

Somebody talk him off the ledge please.

[orange]

Even Bulaga's name just resonates with the badfat philosophy. Bulaga. Buhlaga. Byewwwlahguh. BUHLAUGA!!! BLUAHG! Blalllllaguguhhahahuhhhhg.... bllllaaaauuuugawguegua

http://www.moonbattery.com/beluga_whale.jpg

[Johnny Vegas]

funny some believe Quinn will ride them to a SB win.

[orange]

But, the Browns trade demands were really stupidly high ...

Underrate Peyton Hillis at your peril!

[Bane]

funny some believe Quinn will ride them to a SB win.

Yeah they're all probably standing around a gas fireplace in their Abercrombie & Fitch skinny jeans,drinking Bud Light Golden Wheat high five'n and screaming about AFCW titles and Lombardi trophies......Oh wait they did that already.ROFL

[Mile High Mania]

Crazy... I think it's a fine risk to take, they gave up literally nothing for him.

[chiefzilla1501]

Matt Cassel is a piece of shit.

I've gone into great detail. I've made the argument eloquently, thoroughly and convincingly. I have done so on many occasions and have yet to get a response any more substantive than "he just needs more time". If anyone does not understand that Matt Cassel is awful, I'm only belaboring the point while wasting my time and energy in attempting to educate a retard (i.e. Chiefzilla and sackoshit)

So henceforth in this kingdom, I am going with brevity over depth.

Matt Cassel is a piece of shit.

That is all.

Uhh... I said I'd give Cassel a chance, admitted I was wrong for supporting him early, and have been pretty far off the bandwagon ever since. Don't know why there was a jab directed at me.

[chief52]

Crazy... I think it's a fine risk to take, they gave up literally nothing for him.

Sometimes you get what you pay for...

[Bane]

Sometimes you get what you pay for...

:See Josh McFistpumpROFL

[chiefzilla1501]

Here's the problem:

Cassel wasn't just a mistake, he was a franchise-crushing mistake.

There is a difference between making a mistake on a Chad Jackson type deal and a Matt Cassel type deal, especially given the players you passed up to get Cassel.

Right now, yes, I think it was a big mistake to trade for him (I'm still not a big fan of Sanchez, so I don't necessarily agree that we passed up on any marquee quarterbacks).

But that's not what mecca is arguing about. He's claiming that Pioli has too much of an ego to admit he was wrong about Cassel. And I'm calling bullshit, given that Cassel's contract has a 2-year out clause. Why would you do that if you were that convinced he was your long-term option at QB?

[Titty Meat]

Yanno it's funny Cleveland flushes its shit meanwhille the Chiefs add-on.

[Mecca]

Right now, yes, I think it was a big mistake to trade for him (I'm still not a big fan of Sanchez, so I don't necessarily agree that we passed up on any marquee quarterbacks).

But that's not what mecca is arguing about. He's claiming that Pioli has too much of an ego to admit he was wrong about Cassel. And I'm calling bullshit, given that Cassel's contract has a 2-year out clause. Why would you do that if you were that convinced he was your long-term option at QB?

Even if he's not, it's a decision like that makes or breaks a team, it caused us to take Jackson 1st and not have a 2nd rounder in a deep class and now once again we won't be taking a QB.

We don't wanna be the Panthers where we have talent yet the lack of a QB makes us a 7 win team.

[Ebolapox]

dammit, they gave up nothing for him.

[chiefzilla1501]

Even if he's not, it's a decision like that makes or breaks a team, it caused us to take Jackson 1st and not have a 2nd rounder in a deep class and now once again we won't be taking a QB.

We don't wanna be the Panthers where we have talent yet the lack of a QB makes us a 7 win team.

I agree that we need to bring in a QB. And I"m hoping it's Clausen.

But the draft hasn't happened yet. And you're basically suggesting as a matter of fact that the Chiefs absolutely, positively won't take Clausen because Pioli is protecting his investment.

And I don't get where that's coming from. Like I said, given Pioli's history of trusting Belichick absolutely, I'm more worried about him overtrusting Weis' advice than undertrusting it. If he chooses Clausen, it had better be for the right reasons.

Sorry, I'm not convinced at all that clausen is completely out of the picture.

[DaneMcCloud]

He played really bad attimes. He played pretty well at times.

Saying he is "crushing the franchise" is crazy. Im all for drafting clausen, but jesus christ, everyone here acts like the are nostradamus and can tell the future.

Matt played TERRIBLE last season, but so did trent his 1st year here. I think charlie can make him a good qb. Oh, and it also doesnt help to have a revolving door at reciever.

Please explain the similarities between Trent Green and Matt Cassel.

Thanks.

[chiefzilla1501]

Please explain the similarities between Trent Green and Matt Cassel.

Thanks.

Unfortunately, I think there's some truth to this, but for the wrong reasons. Green was a guy who needed a stud offensive line built around him to operate in the offense. I'm starting to think Cassel might be the same way.

I hope that's wrong. But as of now, it's looking to be that way.

[Mecca]

Cassel isn't nearly as accurate as Green was...

And I think it's highly unlikely the Chiefs take a QB high this year, just my view though.

[DaneMcCloud]

Unfortunately, I think there's some truth to this, but for the wrong reasons. Green was a guy who needed a stud offensive line built around him to operate in the offense. I'm starting to think Cassel might be the same way.

I hope that's wrong. But as of now, it's looking to be that way.

That's nonsense.

I don't recall Trent Green having an "stud" O-line Washington and outside of Orlando Pace in his second year, I don't think that anyone was special in St. Louis in 2000.

Trent Green was far more accurate and was a MUCH better decision maker than Cassel will EVER be. TG had a stronger arm and complete control of the offense.

Cassel is Elvis Grbac part two, except without the physical attributes.

[Bane]

That's nonsense.

I don't recall Trent Green having an "stud" O-line Washington and outside of Orlando Pace in his second year, I don't think that anyone was special in St. Louis in 2000.

Trent Green was far more accurate and was a MUCH better decision maker than Cassel will EVER be. TG had a stronger arm and complete control of the offense.

Cassel is Elvis Grbac part two, except without the physical attributes.

:thumb:

[DJ's left nut]

That's nonsense.

I don't recall Trent Green having an "stud" O-line Washington and outside of Orlando Pace in his second year, I don't think that anyone was special in St. Louis in 2000.

Trent Green was far more accurate and was a MUCH better decision maker than Cassel will EVER be. TG had a stronger arm and complete control of the offense.

Cassel is Elvis Grbac part two, except without the physical attributes.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=6420635&postcount=92

Matt Cassel is a piece of shit.

[stlchiefs]

I like Quinn and for that price I REALLY would have liked to see him as a Chief.

[penchief]

Did anyone here really WANT Quinn anyway? He maybe an upgrade from Cassel, but upgrading from a pile of shit to a slightly smaller pile of shit means nothing in the long run.

I don't even think he's an upgrade over Cassel. I think Brodie Croyle is better than Quinn.

[Quesadilla Joe]

Broncos got their QB for future... Josh McD will get Quinn's potential displayed on the field.

http://twitter.com/D_Stallworth18

Nice praise from one of McD's former players and one of Quinn's former teammates.

[FAX]

ROFL

People are seriously upset at Pioli because the goats traded two picks and a FB for Quinn?

FAX

[DJ's left nut]

http://twitter.com/D_Stallworth18

Nice praise from one of McD's former players and one of Quinn's former teammates.

And a dude with such sterling judgment that it led to him killing a man and being unemployed (despite being more talented than 3/4 of the WRs out there).

But hey, if you want to take his player personnel skills at face value, more power to you.

[Pablo]

I don't even think he's an upgrade over Cassel. I think Brodie Croyle is better than Quinn.LMAO

Croyle might be considered worthwhile if he didn't tear his labia every time the wind came from the East.

No. If the Chiefs would have given up the exact same compensation for Quinn, I'd probably blow a wad in my pants. I'm not saying the guy is going to light the world on fire; but he's worth what they gave up.

[DJ's left nut]

I don't even think he's an upgrade over Cassel. I think Brodie Croyle is better than Quinn.

Jonathan Quinn is an upgrade over Cassel.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Maybe this means we're going to draft a QB in the first.

[penchief]

I'd have taken Wimbley seeing how starved this team is for rushers but hey don't worry we got Mike Vrabel resigned!

IMO, you're making too much out of Vrabel resigning. I'm thinking Vrabel was resigned because they like his veteran leadership. I agree that an upgrade is in order but he's not completely worthless. You act like Pioli has signed him to a six year deal with a huge bonus. Geez, he's only a stop gap who can help teach the young ones.

[stlchiefs]

No. If the Chiefs would have given up the exact same compensation for Quinn, I'd probably blow a wad in my pants. I'm not saying the guy is going to light the world on fire; but he's worth what they gave up.

Exactly. I'd be ecstatic over stealing Quinn for peanuts. Even if he somehow didn't pan out, which I don't think will be the case, Denver gave up jack for him.

[DJ's left nut]

You're like a one trick pony. I'm thinking Vrabel was resigned because they like his veteran leadership. I agree that an upgrade is in order but he's not completely worthless. You act like Pioli has signed him to a six year deal with a huge bonus. Geez, he's only a stop gap who can help teach the young ones.

Yes he is.

In fact, Cassel could possibly fetch us a 6th round pick in this year's draft.

Vrabel, on the other hand, couldn't be traded for a practice tee.

He is the very definition of completely worthless. Walking into an AIDS tree wouldn't do us any good because he couldn't move fast enough to actually get any AIDS on him. No, we need the AIDS tree to be somehow knocked over only to land on Mike Vrabel.

His presence on the roster is a bigger sham than Cassel's.

And Cassel's a piece of shit.

[penchief]

Maroney is ****ing terrible, the fact that they haven't replaced them speaks to how shitty they've been drafting lately, Hootie could even draft a productive RB.

Pioli is not in NE anymore. How does the fact that NE is still hanging onto Maroney prove that Pioli won't admit a mistake?

[chiefzilla1501]

I like Quinn and for that price I REALLY would have liked to see him as a Chief.

I'm not upset about it. Great character kid with a better arm and better athleticism than Cassel, but he's just as inaccurate. I don't think dumping Cassel for a guy who's only a little better is going to help.

I know there are some knocks on Clausen, but I'd still like to see him in KC. And again, I see no reason why it's not in play.

[SAUTO]

Please explain the similarities between Trent Green and Matt Cassel.

Thanks.

i think hes talking about the similar SITUATIONS, they encountered their first seasons here.
Posted via Mobile Device

[penchief]

Jonathan Quinn is an upgrade over Cassel.

What does that say about Quinn if Charlie Weiss would rather have Cassel and Croyle? What does it say about Quinn that Cleveland doesn't even have a starting quarterback but one of the first things Holmgren does is give away a still young first round quarterback for peanuts?

[DaWolf]

Clark Judge chimes in

The Brady Quinn deal should have caught nobody by surprise, especially Brady Quinn. The minute Cleveland signed Jake Delhomme, Quinn was finished with the Browns.

So Cleveland deals him to Denver where the Broncos probably discover what Cleveland did -- that Quinn is not a very accurate quarterback. Nevertheless, coach Josh McDaniels prides himself on working with quarterbacks, and if he can find something here that Cleveland did not then maybe, just maybe, Quinn has a chance. It's a long shot, but it shows that Denver is eager to find a young arm to challenge Kyle Orton. Plus, it didn't cost the Broncos much.

McDaniels is close to former Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis, and Weis loves Quinn. In all likelihood he sold his former pupil (the two were together at New England) on Quinn's smarts, telling him that he could be the perfect guy to run the Denver offense. If nothing else, he sold him on it being a risk worth taking because, given what you could find, the risk wasn't much.

All I know is that for Cleveland to give up on the guy speaks volumes. Because he was from Ohio, he was popular with Browns' fans who desperately wanted him to succeed. Then there's team president Mike Holmgren, who has a history of developing young quarterbacks -- which should've boded well for Quinn. Plus there was an opening, with Seneca Wallace the only challenger before Delhomme arrived on the scene.

I see where Wallace said he intends to be the starter, and that's great. Only if you've seen Seneca Wallace play quarterback he should never be the starter for anyone. No disrespect to Wallace, but as a quarterback he makes a better running back. Anyway, with all that on Quinn's side, he still couldn't make, and good luck in Denver. Maybe a change of scenery works in his favor ... but I doubt it.

Listen, Cleveland needs a good young quarterback, but the Browns bailed on Quinn after only three seasons. I know this regime didn't draft him, but Holmgren isn't going to jettison young talent. He discarded Quinn, and he did it relatively quickly -- for a 35-year-old who was cut by Carolina and who has 9 touchdown passes and 23 interceptions over his last 12 starts. That tells me all I need to know about Quinn's future.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6384866/20459841?tag=comBlogEntryListCnt;entry20459841

[DeezNutz]

I'm afraid that there's been juuuuuuusssssttt enough talk about Clausen to leave many very disappointed on draft day.

[orange]

What does it say about Quinn that Cleveland doesn't even have a starting quarterback but one of the first things Holmgren does is give away a still young first round quarterback for peanuts?

Jake Delhomme.

[Rain Man]

So without reading through the entire thread, did this really happen? Seems like a Cleveland giveaway if it did.

[penchief]

Jake Delhomme.

That doesn't help Quinn's case. Quinn's ticket out of Cleveland was punched before Delhomme was even signed. Plus, it's not like Delhomme is gauranteed to succeed. You'd think that Delhomme's age and his rapidly deteriorating play would be enough to want to hang on to a 25 year old first round quarterback. Holmgren couldn't get Wallace and Delnomme into Cleveland fast enough. Seems like Homgren's attitude was, "anybody but Brady."

[orange]

That doesn't help Quinn's case. Quinn's ticket out of Cleveland was punched before Delhomme was even signed. Plus, it's not like Delhomme is gauranteed to succeed. You'd think that Delhomme's age and his rapidly deteriorating play would be enough to want to hang on to a 25 year old first round quarterback. Holmgren couldn't get Wallace and Delnomme into Cleveland fast enough. Seems like Homgren's attitude was, "anybody but Brady."

Holmgren wants to put his own stamp on the franchise, that's obvious. The QBOTF he drafts won't have to put up with fans chanting "Brady, Brady."

[DaneMcCloud]

i think hes talking about the similar SITUATIONS, they encountered their first seasons here.
Posted via Mobile Device

No offense Jason but I'd like to hear his explanation.

FTR, Bowe, Wade and Chambers were far better than Chris Horn, Alexander, Minnis and later, Kennison.

[penchief]

Holmgren wants to put his own stamp on the franchise, that's obvious. The QBOTF he drafts won't have to put up with fans chanting "Brady, Brady."

He may want to put his own stamp on the franchise but he's not stupid. If Homgren thought Quinn was worth anything at all he wouldn't have given him away for peanuts.

[SAUTO]

No offense Jason but I'd like to hear his explanation.

FTR, Bowe, Wade and Chambers were far better than Chris Horn, Alexander, Minnis and later, Kennison.

fair enough, but it goes farther than wrs IMO, but you and i have had this discussion before....
Posted via Mobile Device

[DaneMcCloud]

fair enough, but it goes farther than wrs IMO, but you and i have had this discussion before....
Posted via Mobile Device

Are you saying you don't want to talk about it anymore?

:D

[|Zach|]

Solid move for Denver. The positive they could get from it outweighs the loss.

[Hootie]

IMO...

Bowe, Wade and Chambers isn't any better than Kennison and Alexander...

I guess Bowe has the potential...

[Titty Meat]

IMO...

Bowe, Wade and Chambers isn't any better than Kennison and Alexander...

I guess Bowe has the potential...

Wow you really are a fucking dumbass.

[SAUTO]

Are you saying you don't want to talk about it anymore?

:D

ill talk about anything anytime i want buddy. im not scared. :)

but no i thought i would step out and let you hear his answer. so hr doesnt copy off my test sheet lol
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hootie]

Wow you really are a ****ing dumbass.

When Dwayne Bowe shows me consistency like Kennison from 2002-2006, you let me know.

Eddie Kennison was a pretty underrated player on the Chiefs if you ask me...2002-2005 Eddie Kennison would have been a quality #2 WR for just about any NFL team...

The fact Green had Kennison, Morton and Gonzalez pretty much makes it impossible for anyone to try and say Cassel had more receiving weapons than Green did...

ALSO...

Bobby Wade is awful...he doesn't even belong in any of this discussion...

So yeah...

Kennison and Alexander were just as good as Bowe and Chambers...or Kennison and Morton for that matter...

Wake me up when Bowe grows up.

[Hootie]

And I am down on Cassel just like everyone else...but I'm not all the way convinced he can't rebound and become at least a formidable QB for the time being...perhaps his upside is 2003-2006 Jake Delhomme...that doesn't sound amazing or anything and it would be really nice to get a franchise QB once in my lifetime...

but we'll see what happens...I have a decent feeling about next year...nothing major...but a few good draft picks and a few big strides in player development could mean next year won't be so GD depressing for once

[DaneMcCloud]

IMO...

Bowe, Wade and Chambers isn't any better than Kennison and Alexander...

I guess Bowe has the potential...

You need to have your meat checked

[DaneMcCloud]

And I am down on Cassel just like everyone else...but I'm not all the way convinced he can't rebound and become at least a formidable QB for the time being...perhaps his upside is 2003-2006 Jake Delhomme...that doesn't sound amazing or anything and it would be really nice to get a franchise QB once in my lifetime...

but we'll see what happens...I have a decent feeling about next year...nothing major...but a few good draft picks and a few big strides in player development could mean next year won't be so GD depressing for once

The problem is that your "feeling" is based on hope and not facts.

We have no idea if the draft will provide any impact players.

We have no idea if Crennel will make a difference.

We have no idea if Cassel will improve.

The bottom line is that there is no empirical data to support the idea of a better Chiefs team and record in 2010.

[Gadzooks]

IMO...

Bowe, Wade and Chambers isn't any better than Kennison and Alexander...

I guess Bowe has the potential...

Bowe and Chambers would be a respectable WR1 and WR2 combo for any team in the NFL.

[OnTheWarpath15]

The problem is that your "feeling" is based on hope and not facts.

We have no idea if the draft will provide any impact players.

We have no idea if Crennel will make a difference.

We have no idea if Cassel will improve.

The bottom line is that there is no empirical data to support the idea of a better Chiefs team and record in 2010.

It sounds like Groundhog Day around here.

Remember this time last year, when people said, with no evidence to support it, that we'd be a 6-8 win team due to coaching alone?

That worked out well. So well that the same people are saying the SAME THING this offseason.

[DaneMcCloud]

Bowe and Chambers would be a respectable WR1 and WR2 combo for any team in the NFL.

One and two?

I'd say two and three.

The Chiefs are sorely lacking a number one receiver.

[OnTheWarpath15]

One and two?

I'd say two and three.

The Chiefs are sorely lacking a number one receiver.

I think Bowe has the TALENT to be a WR1.

Whether he realizes that talent remains to be seen.

[Hootie]

You need to have your meat checked

well I don't know why you think Bowe and Chambers are that much better than Kennison and Alexander...

In fact...I think you're just dead wrong.

But it's nice that you conveniently left out Tony Gonzalez when talking about who had more weapons (2001 Trent Green or 2009 Matt Cassel)...

In fact...

When Green landed in KC Alexander was coming off of a Pro Bowl season where he had 1400 receiving yards and 10 TDs...

I mean...

When has Bowe or Chambers ever done any of that?

You're bat shit crazy if you think Green walked into any worse of a situation than Matt Cassel when they arrived in Kansas City...

And for the sake of not really giving a shit about who's situation was worse (both shitty, but at least Green knew Vermeil's system from top to bottom)...I won't argue that Cassel had the worse situation of the two...but I will argue with anyone who tries and says Green had the worse situation...because that's 100% fiction.

[BryanBusby]

One and two?

I'd say two and three.

The Chiefs are sorely lacking a number one receiver.

Unless Bowe somehow pulls a miracle turn around from his ass, yeah.

[luv]

Well, I guess this puts that Cassel for Quinn rumor to rest.

[DaneMcCloud]

well I don't know why you think Bowe and Chambers are that much better than Kennison and Alexander...

In fact...I think you're just dead wrong.

But it's nice that you conveniently left out Tony Gonzalez when talking about who had more weapons (2001 Trent Green or 2009 Matt Cassel)...

In fact...

When Green landed in KC Alexander was coming off of a Pro Bowl season where he had 1400 receiving yards and 10 TDs...

I mean...

When has Bowe or Chambers ever done any of that?

You're bat shit crazy if you think Green walked into any worse of a situation than Matt Cassel when they arrived in Kansas City...

And for the sake of not really giving a shit about who's situation was worse (both shitty, but at least Green knew Vermeil's system from top to bottom)...I won't argue that Cassel had the worse situation of the two...but I will argue with anyone who tries and says Green had the worse situation...because that's 100% fiction.

You're missing the point: The argument was that Trent Green & Matt Cassel's first year in KC were exact parallels.

Regardless of what you or I think of the surrounding weapons and offensive line, I'm pretty sure that 2001 Trent Green would have been far more accurate and a much better leader than 2009 Matt Cassel.

Cassel is a backup, if not a #3.

[Gadzooks]

One and two?

I'd say two and three.

The Chiefs are sorely lacking a number one receiver.

Well, I wouldn't give up on Bowe just yet. He's shown flashes of being a No 1.
I think Chambers was a 1b/2 and is now a solid 2.

[Hootie]

Bowe and Chambers would be a respectable WR1 and WR2 combo for any team in the NFL.

Well I think that's a freaking joke right there...

I'd say they'd make a decent WR2 and WR3...and Bowe has the potential to maybe be a WR1, or maybe be out of the league in 2 freaking years...we'll see.

And Kennison was an above average WR2 for 5 years in KC...and Alexander was a borderline WR1/spectacular WR2 for basically his entire prime.

And then you add in Tony Gonzalez...

So I'll totally expect this to be the last post regarding that ridiculous statement about Green lacking the receiving weapons that Cassel had in 2009...

(not to mention the fact Cassel had Bowe and Chambers for what, 3 games together last season?)

[Mr. Laz]

I thought Orton was the real deal?

[DaneMcCloud]

It sounds like Groundhog Day around here.

Remember this time last year, when people said, with no evidence to support it, that we'd be a 6-8 win team due to coaching alone?

That worked out well. So well that the same people are saying the SAME THING this offseason.

Come on, Dude! Vrabel has one more year under his belt! He'll be the difference maker this year!

[Hootie]

You're missing the point: The argument was that Trent Green & Matt Cassel's first year in KC were exact parallels.

Regardless of what you or I think of the surrounding weapons and offensive line, I'm pretty sure that 2001 Trent Green would have been far more accurate and a much better leader than 2009 Matt Cassel.

Cassel is a backup, if not a #3.

I don't know man...

I like Trent Green...I've always liked Trent Green...in fact, he's my favorite Chiefs QB of all time...basically...I'm just old enough (24) to have been a diehard through GrBac and Green etc...

I just don't know if I can say Green was any more talented than Matt Cassel...he totally fell apart when the line went south and Vermeil left town...we can chalk that up to old age...I guess...but I just can't see it...we can pretend he only had Pace in St. Louis...but I think we all know that they had a plus line their as well, that allowed him and Warner to pass the ball at will (and they also had the best freaking player in the NFL at RB)...

Green basically led two of the most prolific offenses in the last 15 years that were built around a pro bowl LT and a pro bowl RB....

That's my reasoning for not being able to compare Matt Cassel to Trent Green...

We all saw what Matt Cassel was capable of in 2008 when he was surrounded by an amazing supporting cast...

and he only got better down the stretch as he started becoming more and more comfortable being "the man"...

So I'm saying if 2009 Matt Cassel was hand picked by 2001 Dick Vermeil to be the QB of the the 2001-2005 Chiefs...

Maybe he would have been better, or as good as, Trent Green...

I just don't think they are fair comparisons WHATSOEVER.

I mean...Trent Green literally knew the entire offensive playbook before he ever took a snap for the Chiefs...he knew where everyone was supposed to be...how every play was suppose to develop...

[SAUTO]

green didnt always make those great decisions when pressured. whos to say he would have looked any better last year?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hootie]

Just like 2002 Priest Holmes was all-pro caliber...

and then after the hip injury he was never the same...a product of the offensive line...watch the way he runs...it's crazy.

The year he had all of those TD's...it didn't matter...it could have been him, it could have been Blaylock, it could have been LJ...it would have been the same no matter what.

Vermeil was such a great coach...if he would have just stayed out of the drafts and would have had a more Belichick-esque mindset (NO LOYALTY)...things could have been different in KC.

[Hootie]

all I'm saying about Trent Green is...

as soon as the line went south, Damon Huard suddenly became a superior QB...

Just makes me think...

[BigMeatballDave]

This has been done to death. I think Green is the better QB, but come on, green had TG and Priest. No offense Jason but I'd like to hear his explanation.

FTR, Bowe, Wade and Chambers were far better than Chris Horn, Alexander, Minnis and later, Kennison.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Titty Meat]

Kennison only had 2 1,000+ yard seasons Hootie. WTF are you talking about?

[DaneMcCloud]

I don't know man...

I like Trent Green...I've always liked Trent Green...in fact, he's my favorite Chiefs QB of all time...basically...I'm just old enough (24) to have been a diehard through GrBac and Green etc...

I just don't know if I can say Green was any more talented than Matt Cassel...he totally fell apart when the line went south and Vermeil left town...we can chalk that up to old age...I guess...but I just can't see it...we can pretend he only had Pace in St. Louis...but I think we all know that they had a plus line their as well, that allowed him and Warner to pass the ball at will (and they also had the best freaking player in the NFL at RB)...

Green basically led two of the most prolific offenses in the last 15 years that were built around a pro bowl LT and a pro bowl RB....

That's my reasoning for not being able to compare Matt Cassel to Trent Green...

We all saw what Matt Cassel was capable of in 2008 when he was surrounded by an amazing supporting cast...

and he only got better down the stretch as he started becoming more and more comfortable being "the man"...

So I'm saying if 2009 Matt Cassel was hand picked by 2001 Dick Vermeil to be the QB of the the 2001-2005 Chiefs...

Maybe he would have been better, or as good as, Trent Green...

I just don't think they are fair comparisons WHATSOEVER.

I mean...Trent Green literally knew the entire offensive playbook before he ever took a snap for the Chiefs...he knew where everyone was supposed to be...how every play was suppose to develop...

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but we all saw Trent Green play well in Washington, in St. Louis in 2000 and when healthy, well in KC from 2001-2005.

Trent Green exuded confidence. He put balls in tight places. He show leadership, arm strength and character. He knew the offense inside and out. He'd have a bad game, blame himself and bounce back with a good game.

Cassel knows this offense. He's been in it for 5 years. He's weak armed, makes decisions slowly, doesn't take chances with his throws and holds onto the ball far too long. He's not a guy willing to put team on his shoulders week in and week out and WIN.

Personally, I wish the Chiefs had drafted Brees in 2001 over trading for Green. And while I think that Green was the ultimate system QB, he was smart, sharp, confident and for lack of a better word, a winner.

I just don't see those qualities at this point in time in Cassel.

I just don't see that fire.

[Titty Meat]

all I'm saying about Trent Green is...

as soon as the line went south, Damon Huard suddenly became a superior QB...

Just makes me think...

That's not true.

[DaneMcCloud]

all I'm saying about Trent Green is...

as soon as the line went south, Damon Huard suddenly became a superior QB...

Just makes me think...

Well, he WAS 36 years old.

The idea that NFL football players can play at an extremely high level for as long as they'd like is a myth.

Once you're 36 years old, you'll understand.

:D

[DaneMcCloud]

This has been done to death. I think Green is the better QB, but come on, green had TG and Priest.
Posted via Mobile Device

Sure. But Cassel had Charles, who had like 1,000 yards from scrimmage in the last 8 games.

Meanwhile, Cassel's play declined, instead of improving.

[milkman]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but we all saw Trent Green play well in Washington, in St. Louis in 2000 and when healthy, well in KC from 2001-2005.

Trent Green exuded confidence. He put balls in tight places. He show leadership, arm strength and character. He knew the offense inside and out. He'd have a bad game, blame himself and bounce back with a good game.

Cassel knows this offense. He's been in it for 5 years. He's weak armed, makes decisions slowly, doesn't take chances with his throws and holds onto the ball far too long. He's not a guy willing to put team on his shoulders week in and week out and WIN.

Personally, I wish the Chiefs had drafted Brees in 2001 over trading for Green. And while I think that Green was the ultimate system QB, he was smart, sharp, confident and for lack of a better word, a winner.

I just don't see those qualities at this point in time in Cassel.

I just don't see that fire.

I liked Green, and respected his toughness, and the way he handled himself through adversity.

One thing, however, that bothered about Green was his propensity for mistakes in the red zone, or in clutch situations.

Green played great for 5 years here, but if a game was on the line, he was not a QB I wanted to have to rely on.

[Bane]

I thought Orton was the real deal?

Real deal?ROFL You're killn me.
They just couldn't get anyone else.

[ChiefsOne]

Personally, I wish the Chiefs had drafted Brees in 2001 over trading for Green. And while I think that Green was the ultimate system QB, he was smart, sharp, confident and for lack of a better word, a winner.

I said it then and I stick to that today. My god how things would be different!

[OnTheWarpath15]

Sure. But Cassel had Charles, who had like 1,000 yards from scrimmage in the last 8 games.

Meanwhile, Cassel's play declined, instead of improving.

That's the thing people keep overlooking when claiming Cassel was a victim of circumstance.

When the running game and OL was at its best in the last 6 games of the year, he was at his worst.

You just can't ignore that.

[milkman]

Well, I guess this puts that Cassel for Quinn rumor to rest.

What makes you think that?

[DaneMcCloud]

Well, I wouldn't give up on Bowe just yet. He's shown flashes of being a No 1.
I think Chambers was a 1b/2 and is now a solid 2.

He doesn't have the track speed nor the game speed to be a true #1. Now, that doesn't mean he can't or wont have 90 catches a year, just that he's not a game-breaking, game winning WR.

I think last year's an aberration. If not, then he'll quickly be branded a DJ.

All talent and no head.

[SAUTO]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but we all saw Trent Green play well in Washington, in St. Louis in 2000 and when healthy, well in KC from 2001-2005.

Trent Green exuded confidence. He put balls in tight places. He show leadership, arm strength and character. He knew the offense inside and out. He'd have a bad game, blame himself and bounce back with a good game.

Cassel knows this offense. He's been in it for 5 years. He's weak armed, makes decisions slowly, doesn't take chances with his throws and holds onto the ball far too long. He's not a guy willing to put team on his shoulders week in and week out and WIN.

Personally, I wish the Chiefs had drafted Brees in 2001 over trading for Green. And while I think that Green was the ultimate system QB, he was smart, sharp, confident and for lack of a better word, a winner.

I just don't see those qualities at this point in time in Cassel.

I just don't see that fire.

im talking more about the teams changing offenses their respective first years, both teams' best rbs called third down backs to start the seasons, pulling a wr off the shit pile and said wr becoming a solid contributor...... the parallels in each qbs situations cant be denied. NOW if we can solidify that line though the later rounds and casey??? maybe we can find out what we actually have in cassel, a prime rib dinner or a shit sandwich.
Posted via Mobile Device

[LaChapelle]

Pity party #1403

[OnTheWarpath15]

I liked Green, and respected his toughness, and the way he handled himself through adversity.

One thing, however, that bothered about Green was his propensity for mistakes in the red zone, or in clutch situations.

Green played great for 5 years here, but if a game was on the line, he was not a QB I wanted to have to rely on.

Agreed, but prepare to get flamed.

I wonder what QB people were watching when they say we would have won a SB had we had a defense.

I'm sorry, but TG - while he put up some arena league numbers - isn't anywhere near my list of QB's I'd pick to win a game if my life depended on it.

[Titty Meat]

Agreed, but prepare to get flamed.

I wonder what QB people were watching when they say we would have won a SB had we had a defense.

I'm sorry, but TG - while he put up some arena league numbers - isn't anywhere near my list of QB's I'd pick to win a game if my life depended on it.

Well he didn't play bad at all in the 2003 game vs the Colts. The Chiefs didn't lost much at home in big games either.

[milkman]

Agreed, but prepare to get flamed.

I wonder what QB people were watching when they say we would have won a SB had we had a defense.

I'm sorry, but TG - while he put up some arena league numbers - isn't anywhere near my list of QB's I'd pick to win a game if my life depended on it.

On no, I'll get flamed!

Whatever will I do?

[The Bad Guy]

Agreed, but prepare to get flamed.

I wonder what QB people were watching when they say we would have won a SB had we had a defense.

I'm sorry, but TG - while he put up some arena league numbers - isn't anywhere near my list of QB's I'd pick to win a game if my life depended on it.

You can put me in the camp that we would have won the SB with a defense that year.

Trent Green didn't have to be spectacular. The Chiefs running game was one of the best orchestrated ground attacks I've ever seen.

Green had several clutch games that year and played by far his best football.

[milkman]

Well he didn't play bad at all in the 2003 game vs the Colts. The Chiefs didn't lost much at home in big games either.

He played a great game against a defense that was nearly as bad as ours.

[The Bad Guy]

Well he didn't play bad at all in the 2003 game vs the Colts. The Chiefs didn't lost much at home in big games either.

He didn't play bad at all.

[Titty Meat]

He played a great game against a defense that was nearly as bad as ours.

Look at the other big games. I remember the 2005 season where they basicaly had to win out he only threw 3 picks the last 6 games.

[SAUTO]

On no, I'll get flamed!

Whatever will I do?

why would you get flamed? you posted the truth. you would have to be like billllaaaaayyyyyyy to disagree. oh and no offense to billy here
Posted via Mobile Device

[DaneMcCloud]

im talking more about the teams changing offenses their respective first years, both teams' best rbs called third down backs to start the seasons, pulling a wr off the shit pile and said wr becoming a solid contributor...... the parallels in each qbs situations cant be denied. NOW if we can solidify that line though the later rounds and casey??? maybe we can find out what we actually have in cassel, a prime rib dinner or a shit sandwich.
Posted via Mobile Device

The thing is that Trent Green was a proven QB in the NFL before coming to KC. He started in Washington, started in St. Louis and was a well known, hard working QB that would have most certainly won a Super Bowl as the Rams starter in '99 where he was already installed as the starter.

Cassel hadn't started since high school. He was a 7th rounder that was in danger of being cut each and every year. He was sacked 47 times in NE and was helped greatly by McDaniels, Belichick, Moss and Welker.

If you strip those guys away, you have a QB that puts up a 14 QB rating.

As mentioned earlier, Trent Green may have had a bad week but the following week, he was ready to rock. And like most QB's, his success relied upon good protection and good skill players.

But the similarities end there because Cassel isn't accurate, doesn't read defenses well, holds onto the ball way too long and doesn't make good decisions on a regular basis.

[milkman]

Look at the other big games. I remember the 2005 season where they basicaly had to win out he only threw 3 picks the last 6 games.

All I'm saying is that he did have a proensity, in general to make huge mistakes.

Now did he, at times, make some big plays?

Sure.

But the fact remains, he made a number of bad plays and threw some big interceptions in his 5 years, and I just didn't have faith in him in those situations.

[SAUTO]

You can put me in the camp that we would have won the SB with a defense that year.

Trent Green didn't have to be spectacular. The Chiefs running game was one of the best orchestrated ground attacks I've ever seen.

Green had several clutch games that year and played by far his best football.

i can agree that we would have had a great shot that year. but green did throw quite a few ints in clutch situations that could have put some games away. then the d stepped on the field.....
Posted via Mobile Device

[Gadzooks]

He doesn't have the track speed nor the game speed to be a true #1. Now, that doesn't mean he can't or wont have 90 catches a year, just that he's not a game-breaking, game winning WR.

I think last year's an aberration. If not, then he'll quickly be branded a DJ.

All talent and no head.

It's obvious Bowe's head's not in it.
Chambers is a gamer, though.
Besides, Miles Austin looked like a POS for the first few games and now he's a freakin superstar. You never know when these guy's will pull their heads out of their asses.

[DaneMcCloud]

I liked Green, and respected his toughness, and the way he handled himself through adversity.

One thing, however, that bothered about Green was his propensity for mistakes in the red zone, or in clutch situations.

Green played great for 5 years here, but if a game was on the line, he was not a QB I wanted to have to rely on.

I agree completely and have been killed on this forum for saying as much.

But with that being said, Cassel isn't anywhere near the same QB as Green.

It's like high school versus the NFL.

[Titty Meat]

All I'm saying is that he did have a proensity, in general to make huge mistakes.

Now did he, at times, make some big plays?

Sure.

But the fact remains, he made a number of bad plays and threw some big interceptions in his 5 years, and I just didn't have faith in him in those situations.

The only game I remember him fucking up was the 2004 game vs Houston. Other than that I can't think of any times he made stupid mitakes in the red zone can you remind me?

[DaneMcCloud]

It's obvious Bowe's head's not in it.
Chambers is a gamer, though.
Besides, Miles Austin looked like a POS for the first few games and now he's a freakin superstar. You never know when these guy's will pull their heads out of their asses.

Miles Austin was an undrafted DII player, not a first rounder from LSU.

HUGE difference.

[milkman]

I agree completely and have been killed on this forum for saying as much.

But with that being said, Cassel isn't anywhere near the same QB as Green.

It's like high school versus the NFL.

Well hell, I'm not arguing that Cassel is Green's equal.

That would be just stupid.

[DaneMcCloud]

Well hell, I'm not arguing that Cassel is Green's equal.

That would be just stupid.

Well, that's what others have said by declaring "Well, Trent Green's first year was bad, too".

:shake:

[Titty Meat]

Well, that's what others have said by declaring "Well, Trent Green's first year was bad, too".

:shake:

Cassel didn't have Urban as his slot WR last year so STFU.

[Gadzooks]

Miles Austin was an undrafted DII player, not a first rounder from LSU.

HUGE difference.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a DI player whose pulled his head out of his ass but I'm sure it's happened plenty of times. As a rule, WRs are head cases.