Teicher: Chiefs adding experience to go with youngsters

[Tribal Warfare]

Chiefs adding experience to go with youngsters (http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/25/1836998/chiefs-adding-experience-to-go.html)
By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

ORLANDO, Fla. | When the Chiefs looked at Mike Vrabel, they saw a skilled linebacker who knew their defensive system well and was eager to mentor younger players and lead in the locker room.

It mattered little to them that he comes in a soon-to-be 35-year-old body.

The Chiefs in fact are finding older is better is many cases. Along with Vrabel, the Chiefs re-signed wide receiver Chris Chambers, who will be 32 in August. They added center Casey Wiegmann and running back Thomas Jones, who will be 37 and 32, respectively, this summer.

As a result, the Chiefs, one of the youngest NFL teams the last couple of seasons, are graying.

“From an experience standpoint, you’re going to see us move back toward the middle of the league,” chairman Clark Hunt said this week at the NFL’s annual meetings. “It’s what had to happen and what we want to happen. It doesn’t in any way mean we’re not still focused on building the team through the draft, which we are.”

To the Chiefs, all of the other over-30 players bring at least some of the qualities that led them to re-sign Vrabel. They were valued for more than just their ability to play well.

“Part of what we’re trying to bring in is a good mix of veteran and middle-aged players who are top professionals, who can teach other players how to be good pros in terms of preparation, how to work, how to watch tape and how to do things that are important,” general manager Scott Pioli said. “We’ve tried to look for guys that know how to win and are going to bring elements to the program that coaches and (administrators) can’t. Basically, that’s leadership. That has to come from beyond the front office and coaching and has to be more than one, two or three of those guys.”

The Chiefs have long had a leadership void in their locker room, particularly on defense. It’s no coincidence Vrabel was the first defensive player acquired by the Chiefs after Pioli and coach Todd Haley were hired last year.

“I don’t think you can ever have enough leadership guys,” Haley said. “The key thing is that those leadership guys can still play at a high level. That was a lot of the work we did as soon as the season ended was try to figure out that fine line of where we could get that great leadership to help the young team, and can they still play?

“I feel good about all of those guys we acquired. They all have one thing in common, and that’s they’ve all done a really good job of taking care of their bodies. When you have guys that do that, that helps them play at a high level for a little longer than maybe the average guy.”

Over-30 players tend to lose their playing skills quickly, making it dangerous to add so many in a short period of time. The Chiefs learned that lesson last year when they signed wide receiver Bobby Engram, offensive lineman Mike Goff and linebacker Zach Thomas.

The Chiefs made the judgment call that the three could still play well, but erred. None of the three lasted until the end of the regular season, and Thomas didn’t make it out of the preseason.

“I have a great amount of respect for all those guys you mentioned, and each one for different reasons didn’t work out,” Haley said. “Injury was really a factor for all of them. That’s the rub of the green, so to speak. At the same time, each and every one of those guys was a key component for the Kansas City Chiefs last year in our development. We went though an offseason with those guys, went through a training camp. Whether it’s obvious or not, they made impacts for the Kansas City Chiefs, and very positive impacts.”

The impact of those failures was decreased by the fact none of the three signed a high-dollar contract. Similarly, the Chiefs won’t be tied to a bloated contract if Vrabel, Chambers, Wiegmann or Jones fails this year.

“I don’t feel we put the club at risk or the locker room at risk based on the contracts we gave some of those players,” Pioli said, referring to last year’s signings. “We tried to go out and find competition. I would have been more disappointed had we signed some of the more high-profile players with larger contracts who didn’t work out elsewhere around the league.”

The Chiefs have also shed one older player. They have made no effort to re-sign safety Mike Brown, who turned 32 last month.

They also added three under-30 players in guard Ryan Lilja, wide receiver Jerheme Urban and defensive lineman Shaun Smith.

“You’ve got to be careful about having a team that’s too old or too young,” Pioli said. “You have to find some balance in there. I don’t know if it was a conscious thought on our part to look at our team and decide we needed to mature and then pinpoint certain players. We did know we were one of the youngest teams in the league last year and needed a degree of leadership.

“There’s not a specific formula. We’ve tried to be careful not to add so many older players that may be near the end where they take jobs away from younger players you’re trying to develop. You’ve got to find the right balance. We don’t know where we are right now because you don’t know when older players are going to hit the wall and we don’t know if younger players are going to develop.”

[Ebolapox]

read: the younger guys wanted too much cash.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Nothing spells leadership like Zach Thomas suing the front office after getting his worthless ass cut and Vrabel not reporting to OTAs and flipping off another team because we're losing.

What a crock of shit.

[FAX]

It sure does seem like a lot of ... justification ... is going on with our signings of the elderly and infirm.

I'm certain there's truth and validity to the notion that locker room leadership (veteran style) is an important component in building a team. That makes perfect sense. When your veteran "leaders" don't show up for voluntary workouts, meetings, or camps, it kind of takes some of the meat off the bones, though.

FAX

[FAX]

I think that if I were an astronaut, I'd prefer not to do a spacewalk. If, for some reason your tether came loose, you'd be floating in space with little or no ability to get back to your ship unless you had little jet thrusters built into your suit. I'm not sure if I'd like to float around in space completely helpless like that until you either ran out of air or got gravitized into the sun. It just seems like a really bad way to go. Worse, maybe, than being eaten by sharks or trampled into the mud by hippos or dropped on your head by a giant after he catches you stealing beans.

FAX

[kcxiv]

at least him flipping off the other team showed he does care that they are losing. If he didnt, he would have did nothing. It would have been better for him i guess, but at least the fucker wants to win.

Been a few years since we have had any kind of umpf for this team. Fans are down. i even think all Chiefs forums are a bit slower because of this.

This is a Chiefs site, but i dont think the main thing on this site most of the time is the Chiefs. lol

['Hamas' Jenkins]

at least him flipping off the other team showed he does care that they are losing. If he didnt, he would have did nothing. It would have been better for him i guess, but at least the fucker wants to win.

Been a few years since we have had any kind of umpf for this team. Fans are down. i even think all Chiefs forums are a bit slower because of this.

This is a Chiefs site, but i dont think the main thing on this site most of the time is the Chiefs. lol

IMO, a leader would make sure that his teammates aren't hanging their head during an ass whipping. He'd want to make sure the defense got a stop the next time they were on the field.

[kysirsoze]

I think that if I were an astronaut, I'd prefer not to do a spacewalk. If, for some reason your tether came loose, you'd be floating in space with little or no ability to get back to your ship unless you had little jet thrusters built into your suit. I'm not sure if I'd like to float around in space completely helpless like that until you either ran out of air or got gravitized into the sun. It just seems like a really bad way to go. Worse, maybe, than being eaten by sharks or trampled into the mud by hippos or dropped on your head by a giant after he catches you stealing beans.

FAX

This

[kysirsoze]

IMO, a leader would make sure that his teammates aren't hanging their head during an ass whipping. He'd want to make sure the defense got a stop the next time they were on the field.

I feel like "leadership" is a really difficult thing to evaluate from the outside. I'm often surprised when I hear about who the players consider to be locker-room leaders because it's not always who you'd guess. (The big names) It comes down to what happens day in day out. Watching on Sunday doesn't really give you enough of the picture.

[T-post Tom]

Balance is good. Herm & Carl went overboard with the youth movement. I like the signings mentioned.

[FAX]

Well, if you can't stop them, the next best thing is to shoot them the bird. Everybody knows that an obscene gesture is the preferred fall-back to an ass kicking. Heck, our entire transportation system is based on that concept.

FAX

[T-post Tom]

Well, if you can't stop them, the next best thing is to shoot them the bird. Everybody knows that an obscene gesture is the preferred fall-back to an ass kicking. Heck, our entire transportation system is based on that concept.

FAX

If it's good enough for Vrabel, Gunther & Haley...well then by God it's good enough for the rest of us. (Sorry Gblowfish)

[Fritz88]

ADAM TEICHER

[sodcat]

It was reported Vrabel NEVER showed up for ota's w/the Pats, at least when he did show up here he was ready to play, unlike some of the other players.

[TheGuardian]

Nothing spells leadership like Zach Thomas suing the front office after getting his worthless ass cut and Vrabel not reporting to OTAs and flipping off another team because we're losing.

What a crock of shit.

I don't have a problem with Vrabel flipping off the Donks for running up the score.

[the Talking Can]

yeah, that article makes me puke


everyone we've signed so far has sucked various levels of ass (chambers being the clear exception).....kind of a small point to overlook...

and our defense was as embarrassing as ever....so how in the hell can you talk about the positive effects of old man leadership when these mythic effects produced nothing on the field during games (which is the only god damn thing that matters)?

[RedThat]

Im in agreement with Pioli's line of thinking.

I think it's really important to have that good mix of youth and veteran leadership on a football team. Balance, it's all about that. Balance=stability imo

[penchief]

I think that if I were an astronaut, I'd prefer not to do a spacewalk. If, for some reason your tether came loose, you'd be floating in space with little or no ability to get back to your ship unless you had little jet thrusters built into your suit. I'm not sure if I'd like to float around in space completely helpless like that until you either ran out of air or got gravitized into the sun. It just seems like a really bad way to go. Worse, maybe, than being eaten by sharks or trampled into the mud by hippos or dropped on your head by a giant after he catches you stealing beans.

FAX

Have you been listening to Space Oddity?

[ModSocks]

I don't have a problem with Vrabel flipping off the Donks for running up the score.

This.

I'm glad he flipped off the donks. I'd expect the leader of my D to show emotion and passion for the game and stand up for his team, even if they are getting pushed around and beat up. Now, had he lost his composure during a crucial game; well that's a different story.

And how can we judge leadership if we're not in the huddle? We don't know if a guy like Vrabel has shown other defensive players how to maintain a proper diet, how to study film, where to line up, etc.

And just because our D sucked doesn't mean that they didn't have improved leadership. Leadership isn't going to make Corey Mays faster, it isn't going to make Hali more agile, it's not going to stop Jackson from getting pushed 5 yards off the LOS.

[LaChapelle]

IF business all across America would start kicking to the curb all employees over 45
this country would be full of piss and vinegar and shit would get done
Graying at the temples should only be seen as enter a Walmart

[Coogs]

The Chiefs have also shed one older player. They have made no effort to re-sign safety Mike Brown, who turned 32 last month.


I guess I didn't realize Brown was gone.

[boogblaster]

I like Vrabel .. sure he's lost a step or two but he's got heart .. something this team has needed for years ...

[TrebMaxx]

IF business all across America would start kicking to the curb all employees over 45
this country would be full of piss and vinegar and shit would get done
Graying at the temples should only be seen as enter a Walmart

I would be more than happy to retire. Can you get the government to supply me with my full S.S. and allow me to withdraw out of my retirement accounts without penalty at age 46? TYIA

[Marcellus]

Nothing spells leadership like Zach Thomas suing the front office after getting his worthless ass cut and Vrabel not reporting to OTAs and flipping off another team because we're losing.

What a crock of shit.

If you want to bitch about Vrabel's play or lack there of, go for it.

If you want to complain about him being pissed about being traded from NE to KC so not showing up to OTA's well maybe you should consider the fact you would have been pissed off as well and would have let a 4 paragraph expletive bomb drop on the whole NE organization.

If you want to bitch about him flipping the Donks the bird, I fart in your general direction. We need more people that give a shit on this team. I also think this is exactly what someone like YOU (and many others) would do in that same situation. You and several other people go ape shit nuts with the fuck laced tirades over some simple post. You think you could handle getting your ass handed to you then getting it rubbed in without getting pissed?

Seems like sometimes it's all about using whatever to bitch, just to bitch.

[CoMoChief]

Vrabel - sucks
Thomas - sucks
Goff - sucks
Brown - sucks


Sorry, but I believe in leading by examples on the field. When your vetera leadership "sucks ass" on the field. What good is that?

[King_Chief_Fan]

If you want to bitch about Vrabel's play or lack there of, go for it.

If you want to complain about him being pissed about being traded from NE to KC so not showing up to OTA's well maybe you should consider the fact you would have been pissed off as well and would have let a 4 paragraph expletive bomb drop on the whole NE organization.

If you want to bitch about him flipping the Donks the bird, I fart in your general direction. We need more people that give a shit on this team. I also think this is exactly what someone like YOU (and many others) would do in that same situation. You and several other people go ape shit nuts with the **** laced tirades over some simple post. You think you could handle getting your ass handed to you then getting it rubbed in without getting pissed?

Seems like sometimes it's all about using whatever to bitch, just to bitch.
:clap:

[Coogs]

Vrabel - sucks
Thomas - sucks
Goff - sucks
Brown - sucks


Sorry, but I believe in leading by examples on the field. When your vetera leadership "sucks ass" on the field. What good is that?

According to the article, Brown is gone.

[DaWolf]

I pointed this out in another thread, but there were no bad teams that I can count from last year which had regime changes and became successful overnight. We bitch and bitch about the guys we signed, but to me that indicates there really weren't that many high end players out there that would fill the needs you need to fill in order to become a winning team overnight. And the fact is, all those guys mentioned (Goff, Thomas, Engram) are all gone. They're not brought in to be cornerstones of the franchise. Those are your young guys. They're brought in to try and help the young guys figure out how to do things the right way. And say what you want about last year's team, they were bad, they were poorly coached, they lacked talent, but they played hard and they were hungry.

At the end of the day, the success or failure will be around how your young guys play. We can sign all the short term vets we want, if DJ continues to have his head up his ass, if Dorsey doesn't keep improving, if TJ doesn't get better, if Albert doesn't get better, if Bowe doesn't become a top receiver, and if these upcoming draft picks provide nothing, then we will continue to lose...

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I know it's too soon, but does anyone see any hopes for improvement next year?

[DaWolf]

I know it's too soon, but does anyone see any hopes for improvement next year?

Improvement? Sure. Playoffs?

http://msp73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/aykis16/playoffs.jpg

[BigChiefFan]

I pointed this out in another thread, but there were no bad teams that I can count from last year which had regime changes and became successful overnight. We bitch and bitch about the guys we signed, but to me that indicates there really weren't that many high end players out there that would fill the needs you need to fill in order to become a winning team overnight. And the fact is, all those guys mentioned (Goff, Thomas, Engram) are all gone. They're not brought in to be cornerstones of the franchise. Those are your young guys. They're brought in to try and help the young guys figure out how to do things the right way. And say what you want about last year's team, they were bad, they were poorly coached, they lacked talent, but they played hard and they were hungry.

At the end of the day, the success or failure will be around how your young guys play. We can sign all the short term vets we want, if DJ continues to have his head up his ass, if Dorsey doesn't keep improving, if TJ doesn't get better, if Albert doesn't get better, if Bowe doesn't become a top receiver, and if these upcoming draft picks provide nothing, then we will continue to lose... On the money, as usual. I agree with your points and I'm surprised by how shorted-sighted others can be.

[RedThat]

I pointed this out in another thread, but there were no bad teams that I can count from last year which had regime changes and became successful overnight. We bitch and bitch about the guys we signed, but to me that indicates there really weren't that many high end players out there that would fill the needs you need to fill in order to become a winning team overnight. And the fact is, all those guys mentioned (Goff, Thomas, Engram) are all gone. They're not brought in to be cornerstones of the franchise. Those are your young guys. They're brought in to try and help the young guys figure out how to do things the right way. And say what you want about last year's team, they were bad, they were poorly coached, they lacked talent, but they played hard and they were hungry.

At the end of the day, the success or failure will be around how your young guys play. We can sign all the short term vets we want, if DJ continues to have his head up his ass, if Dorsey doesn't keep improving, if TJ doesn't get better, if Albert doesn't get better, if Bowe doesn't become a top receiver, and if these upcoming draft picks provide nothing, then we will continue to lose...

Good post bro.

Very well put.

I'd like to comment if you don't mind, lots of "if's" there.

I perceive the word "if" as questionable. Lots of question marks on this team for sure.

I see your point in where you're getting at that the young guys are the core and nucleus of the football team, and they all need to step up and improve their game if this team is going to get better and succeed for the future.

The way I look at it, I see guys like Dorsey, DJ, Albert, Bowe, TJ as very talented football players, but, Im wondering whether they have the mental capacity to succeed or mature to be better people and players.

I'd also like to throw Cassel into that mix, except, I don't consider him talented, but I love his mental toughness and intellegence. Can he improve and mature under the guidance of a new OC? I just thought I'd add his name as well since I feel QB is the most intergral position on a football team.

Yeah, improvement is key. We're gonna need these guys to step up rather than play at a satisfactory level. I think improvement of these players is equally as important as having a good draft. I hope it can happen? I think adding a new coaching staff helps. Getting guys who know how to win and that come from a winning program will help. It'll change the environment/culture, and hopefully that'll rub off on the guys where they can better themselves and reward not only themselves, but better the team as a result.

[Just Passin' By]

I pointed this out in another thread, but there were no bad teams that I can count from last year which had regime changes and became successful overnight. We bitch and bitch about the guys we signed, but to me that indicates there really weren't that many high end players out there that would fill the needs you need to fill in order to become a winning team overnight. And the fact is, all those guys mentioned (Goff, Thomas, Engram) are all gone. They're not brought in to be cornerstones of the franchise. Those are your young guys. They're brought in to try and help the young guys figure out how to do things the right way. And say what you want about last year's team, they were bad, they were poorly coached, they lacked talent, but they played hard and they were hungry.

At the end of the day, the success or failure will be around how your young guys play. We can sign all the short term vets we want, if DJ continues to have his head up his ass, if Dorsey doesn't keep improving, if TJ doesn't get better, if Albert doesn't get better, if Bowe doesn't become a top receiver, and if these upcoming draft picks provide nothing, then we will continue to lose...

Are you trying to make the claim that teams that have 2-14 seasons don't generally turn things around in one year and become Super Bowl contenders immediately? What a notion!

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I want Adam Teicher's fucking gig. I want to be paid handsomely to write the most useless, heard it all before 1000 times-bullshit snooze-fest that this motherfucker turns in to the Star on a regular basis.

I now seriously want to 'bucket list' this asshole for a good beat down before I die.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Are you trying to make the claim that teams that have 2-14 seasons don't generally turn things around in one year and become Super Bowl contenders immediately? What a notion!

This is, of course, what everyone who was critical of the franchise's direction was expecting, and is in no way a straw man.