Are we dead yet? CERN finally does some smashing

[ModSocks]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100330/ap_on_sc/eu_big_bang_machine

By ALEXANDER G. HIGGINS, Associated Press Writer Alexander G. Higgins, Associated Press Writer – 19 mins ago

GENEVA – The world's largest atom smasher conducted its first experiments at conditions nearing those after the Big Bang, breaking its own record for high-energy collisions with proton beams crashing into each other Tuesday at three times more force than ever before.

In a milestone for the $10 billion Large Hadron Collider's ambitious bid to reveal details about theoretical particles and microforces, scientists at the European Organization for Nuclear Research, or CERN, collided the beams and took measurements at a combined energy level of 7 trillion electron volts.

The collisions herald a new era for researchers working on the machine in a 17-mile (27-kilometer) tunnel below the Swiss-French border at Geneva.

"That's it! They've had a collision," said Oliver Buchmueller from Imperial College in London as people closely watched monitors.

In a control room, scientists erupted with applause when the first successful collisions were confirmed. Their colleagues from around the world were tuning in by remote links to witness the new record, which surpasses the 2.36 TeV CERN recorded last year.

Dubbed the world's largest scientific experiment, researchers hope the machine can approach on a tiny scale what happened in the first split seconds after the Big Bang, which they theorize was the creation of the universe some 14 billion years ago.

The extra energy in Geneva is expected to reveal even more about the unanswered questions of particle physics, such as the existence of antimatter and the search for the Higgs boson, a hypothetical particle that scientists theorize gives mass to other particles and thus to other objects and creatures in the universe.

Tuesday's initial attempts at collisions were unsuccessful because problems developed with the beams, said scientists working on the massive machine. That meant the protons had to be "dumped" from the collider and new beams had to be injected.

The atmosphere at CERN was tense considering the collider's launch with great fanfare on Sept. 10, 2008. Nine days later, the project was sidetracked when a badly soldered electrical splice overheated, causing extensive damage to the massive magnets and other parts of the collider some 300 feet (100 meters) below the ground.

It cost $40 million to repair and improve the machine. Since its restart in November 2009, the collider has performed almost flawlessly and given scientists valuable data. It quickly eclipsed the next largest accelerator — the Tevatron at Fermilab near Chicago.

Two beams of protons began 10 days ago to speed at high energy in opposite directions around the tunnel, the coldest place in the universe, at a couple of degrees above absolute zero. CERN used powerful superconducting magnets to force the two beams to cross, creating collisions and showers of particles.

"Experiments are collecting their first physics data — historic moment here!" a scientist tweeted on CERN's official Twitter account.

"Nature does it all the time with cosmic rays (and with higher energy) but this is the first time this is done in Laboratory!" said another tweet.

When collisions become routine, the beams will be packed with hundreds of billions of protons, but the particles are so tiny that few will collide at each crossing.

The experiments will come over the objections of some people who fear they could eventually imperil Earth by creating micro black holes — subatomic versions of collapsed stars whose gravity is so strong they can suck in planets and other stars.

CERN and many scientists dismiss any threat to Earth or people on it, saying that any such holes would be so weak that they would vanish almost instantly without causing any damage.

Bivek Sharma, a professor at the University of California at San Diego, said the images of the first crashed proton beams were beautiful.

"It's taken us 25 years to build," he said. "This is what it's for. Finally the baby is delivered. Now it has to grow."

[Dave Lane]

Particle Physics give me a hadron.

[jidar]

Take heart Doomsayers, it's still only operating at half it's expected normal energy. Maybe they will destroy the world later.

[ModSocks]

Particle Physics give me a hadron.

nice

[DaneMcCloud]

Particle physics is amazing and I can't wait to hear of the discoveries in the next few years.

If they find Higgs boson, I can't even imagine the impact.

[notorious]

Excellent.


Discovery Science had an hour long show about this last week. Very interesting (to me and fellow nerds, anyway.)

[BigRedChief]

Crap, I was wanting to see the other side of a black hole.

[tooge]

I thought it was able to create super holes or something like that. If so, the porn industry is about to explode.

[ModSocks]

I thought it was able to create super holes or something like that. If so, the porn industry is about to explode.

or implode.....

[Rooster]

or implode.....

Either way we get to see boobs... :D

[tooge]

Crap, I was wanting to see the other side of a black hole.

You need a few more inches maybe :)

[InChiefsHeaven]

what the fuck just happened? I'm all stupid and stuff...can someone dumb it down?

[tooge]

a giant particle smasher in Europe just smashed some particles together. Lots of people thoght it could be the end of the world because theoretically, it could create a black hole that would eat the earth, or perhaps it could change the structure of atoms, theus changing all matter itself. But, none of that happened. Thats it in a nutshell.

[notorious]

a giant particle smasher in Europe just smashed some particles together. Lots of people thoght it could be the end of the world because theoretically, it could create a black hole that would eat the earth, or perhaps it could change the structure of atoms, theus changing all matter itself. But, none of that happened. Thats it in a nutshell.

I thought that they were creating black holes, it's just that they only last for a very brief time.

[Pants]

I thought that they were creating black holes, it's just that they only last for a very brief time.

Yeah, there's a chance a miniature black-hole might be created but it would collapse almost immediately.

And to dumb it down, they're trying to find the smallest particles that make everything possible by giving things mass.

[DaneMcCloud]

Yeah, there's a chance a miniature black-hole might be created but it would collapse almost immediately.

And to dumb it down, they're trying to find the smallest particles that make everything possible by giving things mass.

The God Particle

[Otter]

This thread would usually bring Donger in like a moth to the lantern. Where's he been?

[Inspector]

Big deal.

I did this down in the basement with one of my grandkids about two weeks ago. We used a gardenhose and gravel.

[Pants]

The God Particle

This is really creepy for me to think about again. So they're recreating the Big Bang on a scale of an nth fraction by colliding these protons, but where did they come from when the original big bang happened? GAH!

[InChiefsHeaven]

Geez. You'd think we could cure cancer or end world hunger...but we CAN bang some particles together...




jk. I'm sure this is fascinating and even life altering...but I just don't give a shit.

[InChiefsHeaven]

BTW, isn't this the device written about in Angels and Demons?

[DaneMcCloud]

jk. I'm sure this is fascinating and even life altering...but I just don't give a shit.

Aw, damn.

I'm sure all of the scientists at CERN are crying in their beers this very moment.

[DaneMcCloud]

This is really creepy for me to think about again. So they're recreating the Big Bang on a scale of an nth fraction by colliding these protons, but where did they come from when the original big bang happened? GAH!

I don't think that's the point of the exercise. I think they're just trying to replicate how it happened, not by whom or why.

I don't feel that a science experiment of this nature in any way, shape or form negates a creator.

[Chiefless]

This is really creepy for me to think about again. So they're recreating the Big Bang on a scale of an nth fraction by colliding these protons, but where did they come from when the original big bang happened? GAH!

This idea and the idea of space being infinite really tie my brain in knots. So, if nothing created the big bang particles, then they must have always existed in some form. How could something have always existed?

[Delano]

Aw, damn.

I'm sure all of the scientists at CERN are crying in their beers this very moment.

:clap:

http://tuesdaymidnight.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/big_lebowski_nihilists.jpg

Ja. Zey smash ze atoms? Ve don't care.

[Fish]

This idea and the idea of space being infinite really tie my brain in knots. So, if nothing created the big bang particles, then they must have always existed in some form. How could something have always existed?

In the beginning... there was nothing... which exploded....

:D

[KcKing]

what the fuck just happened? I'm all stupid and stuff...can someone dumb it down?

They just crossed the beams... And Egon Spengler is not amused...
Posted via Mobile Device

[DaneMcCloud]

This thread would usually bring Donger in like a moth to the lantern. Where's he been?

He's at CERN

[Delano]

Here is Donger leaning on teh CERN.

http://assets.motherboard.tv/post_images/assets/000/001/376/james-gillies-cern-large-hadron-collider_large.jpg

[Rooster]

What about the damn flying cars? It is 2010 and we don't have them yet. WTF.. Stop messing with anti-matter and blackholes and get to work on the flying cars. I mean shit....

[FAX]

What happens if these knuckleheads discover the phantom dynaparticle?

The last damn thing I want to see is a dynaparticle smashing into the (as yet unknown) nitroglycerinparticle at or near the speed of light. Although, you would probably never actually see the impact since the resulting explosion would instantaneously rip every molecule in the Earth into a billion infinitesimal parts which would then fly off into space a mach 9.

FAX

[Third Eye]

This is really creepy for me to think about again. So they're recreating the Big Bang on a scale of an nth fraction by colliding these protons, but where did they come from when the original big bang happened? GAH!

If you are a proponent of M-Theory, then the big bang wasn't the beginning of everything, just the beginning of our universe.

[DonTellMeShowMe]

BTW, isn't this the device written about in Angels and Demons?

thats exactly what I was thinking! lol

[Pants]

I don't think that's the point of the exercise. I think they're just trying to replicate how it happened, not by whom or why.

I don't feel that a science experiment of this nature in any way, shape or form negates a creator.

Oh yeah, I totally get what you're saying. I was just voicing my thoughts, which I'm sure everyone else has at some point. Even if we take the creator side of things, the human brain still can't comprehend how something can have no beginning and no end, since our brains are anchored into a very finite time line and the perception thereof.

[Pants]

If you are a proponent of M-Theory, then the big bang wasn't the beginning of everything, just the beginning of our universe.

Multiverse theory? It doesn't matter, something somewhere had to be the first, right?

[FAX]

The M-theory is okay, but I like the N-theory a lot better. That's the one where the universe as we know it was created by several giant, supernatural, omnipotent newts who were just playing around with a Ouija board and things got out of hand.

FAX

[ModSocks]

What happens if these knuckleheads discover the phantom dynaparticle?

The last damn thing I want to see is a dynaparticle smashing into the (as yet unknown) nitroglycerinparticle at or near the speed of light. Although, you would probably never actually see the impact since the resulting explosion would instantaneously rip every molecule in the Earth into a billion infinitesimal parts which would then fly off into space a mach 9.

FAX

Hate to say this dude, but you're losing your burst. I want the Fax 2008 edition. Maybe i can find it on the other end of a blackhole?

[ModSocks]

Oh yeah, I totally get what you're saying. I was just voicing my thoughts, which I'm sure everyone else has at some point. Even if we take the creator side of things, the human brain still can't comprehend how something can have no beginning and no end, since our brains are anchored into a very finite time line and the perception thereof.

What kind of weed you smoking man?

[Pants]

What kind of weed you smoking man?

Man, I would go fucking crazy if I ever went into that loop of thought while being stoned. Thank God that never came up. ROFL

[DaneMcCloud]

Oh yeah, I totally get what you're saying. I was just voicing my thoughts, which I'm sure everyone else has at some point. Even if we take the creator side of things, the human brain still can't comprehend how something can have no beginning and no end, since our brains are anchored into a very finite time line and the perception thereof.

That's the way the Christian God was explained to me as a child: He was always there.

Neither as a child or an adult have I been able to wrap my mind around that concept.

[ModSocks]

Man, I would go ****ing crazy if I ever went into that loop of thought while being stoned. Thank God that never came up. ROFL

Haha...those are the best conversations. I usually get told to STFU because i end up going off on tangents and no one can follow me. Hell, i can't even follow myself.

[Pants]

That's the way the Christian God was explained to me as a child: He was always there.

Neither as a child or an adult have I been able to wrap my mind around that concept.

Yeah, I was taught the same, but I was never forced to believe. The thing that pisses me off is that we will never reach that answer, I hope death answers it and is not just a void. But then again, the void isn't such a bad thing either. Afterall, when we have "dreamless" sleep (when we don't remember the REM stage), we are completely unaware of anything - there's a good chance death is exactly like that minus the waking up part - so it's not THAT bad.

[ModSocks]

That's the way the Christian God was explained to me as a child: He was always there.

Neither as a child or an adult have I been able to wrap my mind around that concept.

I try to conceptualize the universe as a big trash dump. Black holes act as the compactor and send the trash another part of the landfill.


but i have no idea have the trash got there.

[Delano]

Hate to say this dude, but you're losing your burst. I want the Fax 2008 edition. Maybe i can find it on the other end of a blackhole?

Sure, now that you know he is the forgiving type you sling this bullshit.

[ModSocks]

Yeah, I was taught the same, but I was never forced to believe. The thing that pisses me off is that we will never reach that answer, I hope death answers it and is not just a void.

the thought of an afterlife is nice, but unfortunatley I dont have much faith. Sometimes i wish i did.

I feel that when we die. That's it. It's just over. No Heaven, no Hell, no ghosts. just dead. Our energy returns to the universe and just gets recycled.

[ModSocks]

Sure, now that you know he is the forgiving type you sling this bullshit.

Nah, i said a few months ago too. Fax is running out of Fax-Juice

[Pants]

the thought of an afterlife is nice, but unfortunatley I dont have much faith. Sometimes i wish i did.

I feel that when we die. That's it. It's just over. No Heaven, no Hell, no ghosts. just dead. Our energy returns to the universe and just gets recycled.

DMT gives me some hope that afterlife does exist. Could be our brains just fucking with us, I guess.

[FAX]

Hate to say this dude, but you're losing your burst. ...

Losing? It's lost, Mr. Detoxing. Gone. Disappeared. I even looked under the car seats. I've been thinking about a replacement, but that was my favorite.

FAX

[ModSocks]

Losing? It's lost, Mr. Detoxing. Gone. Disappeared. I even looked under the car seats. I've been thinking about a replacement, but that was my favorite.

FAX

That's a bit better. I actually smiled a little with that post....maybe all is not lost yet

[FAX]

Sure, now that you know he is the forgiving type you sling this bullshit.

No. He's right, Mr. Delano. My posts have gone bad. Real bad. Probably time to hang up my keyboard and make room for a new generation of posters. I always knew the time would come ... thought I'd be ready. But sometimes you just don't want to face the fact that time has taken its toll and the skills have diminished.

FAX

[Baby Lee]

Yeah, I was taught the same, but I was never forced to believe. The thing that pisses me off is that we will never reach that answer, I hope death answers it and is not just a void. But then again, the void isn't such a bad thing either. Afterall, when we have "dreamless" sleep (when we don't remember the REM stage), we are completely unaware of anything - there's a good chance death is exactly like that minus the waking up part - so it's not THAT bad.

Each and every one of are partially composed of an average of about 200 billion atoms that once composed William Shakespeare. Of course that's (5*10^-17)% of our mass, or (1.6*10^-15) ounces of a 200 pound man.

[Pants]

Each and every one of are partially composed of an average of about 200 billion atoms that once composed William Shakespeare. Of course that's (5*10^-17)% of our mass, or (1.6*10^-15) ounces of a 200 pound man.

Nice. "Hey guuuurl, I'm (5*10^-17)% William Shakespeare."

[bevischief]

You can still post ,so no....

[Ebolapox]

Multiverse theory? It doesn't matter, something somewhere had to be the first, right?

not necessarily. time, as we know it, is a construct that we use to understand the miniscule periods of time that we deal with. the entirety of 'recorded history' isn't even a blink of an eye when viewed in the scope of even 'deep time,' the time the earth has existed. and earth wasn't even around until roughly (what, 4.5 billion years)? so if we're calling the current estimate of the big bang at roughly 14.5-16 billion years, that's ten billion years without an earth and/or our solar system.

a long while back, before m-theory became popular, a scottish physicist proposed a 'theory of everything' that took time out of the aspect of the universe--the mathematics worked out well in the beginning, but didn't stand the test of time. the idea is that what we perceive as time is nothing more than the universe going at a series of frames per second (as a movie), with every frame being that EXACT snapshot of the universe in the smallest unit of time, planck time (5.39x10^-44). taken from that perspective, time doesn't exist. heh.

[Pants]

not necessarily. time, as we know it, is a construct that we use to understand the miniscule periods of time that we deal with. the entirety of 'recorded history' isn't even a blink of an eye when viewed in the scope of even 'deep time,' the time the earth has existed. and earth wasn't even around until roughly (what, 4.5 billion years)? so if we're calling the current estimate of the big bang at roughly 14.5-16 billion years, that's ten billion years without an earth and/or our solar system.

a long while back, before m-theory became popular, a scottish physicist proposed a 'theory of everything' that took time out of the aspect of the universe--the mathematics worked out well in the beginning, but didn't stand the test of time. the idea is that what we perceive as time is nothing more than the universe going at a series of frames per second (as a movie), with every frame being that EXACT snapshot of the universe in the smallest unit of time, planck time (5.39x10^-44). taken from that perspective, time doesn't exist. heh.

So we describe the frame by using a measure of time, yet time does not exist? If the frame changes than there was a past and there will be a future unless we agree that there won't be a next frame, thus time exists. No?

[Ebolapox]

So we describe the frame by using a measure of time, yet time does not exist? If the frame changes than there was a past and there will be a future unless we agree that there won't be a next frame, thus time exists. No?

that's using planck time as a way of us 'understanding' what's not really fundamentally understandable. don't think too much on it, though, the mathematics on said theory never worked out.

the meat/potatoes of the issue is that time, as we understand it, is a construct we use to understand and put order to our lives and history.

[Pants]

that's using planck time as a way of us 'understanding' what's not really fundamentally understandable. don't think too much on it, though, the mathematics on said theory never worked out.

the meat/potatoes of the issue is that time, as we understand it, is a construct we use to understand and put order to our lives and history.
I see what you're saying.

In simplest terms, I see time as constant change.

Minutes, hours, years are just a system to describe when the changes occurred relative to our lifetime (really selfish point of view, but that's all we have).

[Ebolapox]

I see what you're saying.

In simplest terms, I see time as constant change.

Minutes, hours, years are just a system to describe when the changes occurred relative to our lifetime (really selfish point of view, but that's all we have).

and that's really just an issue I have with many members of our species, let alone those who believe in a monotheistic thunder-god named yahweh/allah/God. not only are we the pinnacle of 14.5-16 billion years of 'our' universe, but since we currently can't understand how our universe came into being or how a few nucleic acids came together, amino acids came together to make primitive proteins or the first self-replicating primitive 'cell' came into being, we assume that there's only one solution: a creation by some all-powerful omnipotent, omniscient father-figure 'in the sky' who isn't findable to us mere mortals (unless you're of the ministry, pope, or pentecostal and speak to him intimately while he talks to your head).

anyway, let's get away from this conversation: it's grossly close to becoming that which one isn't supposed to talk about (religion/science)

[Pants]

and that's really just an issue I have with many members of our species, let alone those who believe in a monotheistic thunder-god named yahweh/allah/God. not only are we the pinnacle of 14.5-16 billion years of 'our' universe, but since we currently can't understand how our universe came into being or how a few nucleic acids came together, amino acids came together to make primitive proteins or the first self-replicating primitive 'cell' came into being, we assume that there's only one solution: a creation by some all-powerful omnipotent, omniscient father-figure 'in the sky' who isn't findable to us mere mortals (unless you're of the ministry, pope, or pentecostal and speak to him intimately while he talks to your head).

anyway, let's get away from this conversation: it's grossly close to becoming that which one isn't supposed to talk about (religion/science)

100% with you on all that.

[boogblaster]

Its really so primitive .. cave man hit two rocks together and created dust .....

[Dave Lane]

That's the way the Christian God was explained to me as a child: He was always there.

Neither as a child or an adult have I been able to wrap my mind around that concept.

Its funny because christians can accept that god (a being) has always been there but not that all the atoms were just there. Seems like one would be as easy as the other. Actually one is infinitely more possible but they have such a hard time with the matter just existing that I get a chuckle out of it.

[Dave Lane]

Yeah, I was taught the same, but I was never forced to believe. The thing that pisses me off is that we will never reach that answer, I hope death answers it and is not just a void. But then again, the void isn't such a bad thing either. Afterall, when we have "dreamless" sleep (when we don't remember the REM stage), we are completely unaware of anything - there's a good chance death is exactly like that minus the waking up part - so it's not THAT bad.

I like to think of it this way. I was dead for billions of years. Don't remember much about it, didn't seem to hurt. We will all be back there quite shortly so make each waking moment count for something.

[Tactical Funky]

This idea and the idea of space being infinite really tie my brain in knots. So, if nothing created the big bang particles, then they must have always existed in some form. How could something have always existed?
Because matter can neither be created nor destroyed. The universe likely expands and contracts in cyclical fashion, i.e., Big Bang and expansion followed by slowing expansion/entropy followed by collapse into a singularity followed by another Big Bang, etc.

The really ****ed up part of it all is that there may not only be a universe, but a multiverse; that's where the conversation turns to M-theory and string theory and the whole mind-blowing school of thought encompassed by theoretical physics. :hmmm: