Who should we draft 1st?

[KCChiefsMan]

who should it be?

[The Franchise]

1a. Jimmy Clausen
1b. Eric Berry

[KCrockaholic]

who should it be?

Berry! god fucking dammit!!! Make it a fuckin poll

[Brock]

1a. Jimmy Clausen
1b. Eric Berry

/thread

[KCChiefsMan]

Berry! god ****ing dammit!!! Make it a ****in poll

it is a f*cking poll

[KCChiefsMan]

I think we are going to get one of the 3. So no "other" option needed

[KCChiefsMan]

with so much invested in Cassel, I seriously don't see us drafting a QB in the 1st. Maybe the 2011 draft if Cassel sucks again. But not this year. Although, it's still somewhat possible.

[BigCatDaddy]

What???? This many people really here want a safety over a potential franchise QB? Good gosh, I might have to go sign up for WPI.

[Iowanian]

I'm going to say the OT from Iowa, Bullaga, must mostly just because it will make Mecca's head explode.

Add Pat Angerer in the 3-4th just to seal the deal.

[Archie Bunker]

I'd be pleased with Berry, Clausen or to a lesser extent Dan Williams. In the end I went with Berry because of my man crush and I like 2 or 3 QBs in next years class a little more than Clausen.
Posted via Mobile Device

[T-post Tom]

Now this is fresh!

[ModSocks]

Im torn on this one. I like Berry because I like DB's more than any other position, and I like what he can bring to the D. Also, he'll have an immediate impact on the field.

BUT

Clausen will have more of an impact NEXT season and will be much more valuable if he pans out. I know in order to win in the playoffs we need a franchise QB. We just have to suffer through a season in which our 1st rnder sits on the bench.

[JD10367]

What???? This many people really here want a safety over a potential franchise QB? Good gosh, I might have to go sign up for WPI.

The key word is "potential". Too many high-level misses in NFL history. Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Ryan Leaf... and, of course, Todd Blackledge and the infamous "Class of 93", which has probably scarred so many Chiefs fans they want nothing to do with a high 1st-round QB. Clausen is not a "gimme". It would be different if he had "Peyton Manning" written all over him.

(It's a moot point anyway. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Pioli and Haley DO NOT undermine Cassel by picking a 1st-round QB. They might grab a mid-level QB in the middle rounds, but they're not using a high pick on one.)

[TrebMaxx]

I went with Berry even though it is said that at the five spot a safety is wasting the value of the pick. I tend to think with the current rules favoring the passing game the way the rules do it makes a safety a little more valuable. I would be fine with Clausen as the pick but I think the FO will give Cassel this year to prove it and if he fails they will go QB.

[BigCatDaddy]

The key word is "potential". Too many high-level misses in NFL history. Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Ryan Leaf... and, of course, Todd Blackledge and the infamous "Class of 93", which has probably scarred so many Chiefs fans they want nothing to do with a high 1st-round QB. Clausen is not a "gimme". It would be different if he had "Peyton Manning" written all over him.

(It's a moot point anyway. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Pioli and Haley DO NOT undermine Cassel by picking a 1st-round QB. They might grab a mid-level QB in the middle rounds, but they're not using a high pick on one.)

Even Peyton Manning wasn’t the consensus #1 pick that year. They are all “potential” franchise QB’s taken that high when taken and nothing is ever a sure thing. You have to pull the trigger though and even if Clausen bust you still made the right pick. Keep pulling the trigger in round 1 until you get your guy.

[MMXcalibur]

Eric Berry

....and if you REALLY feel that great about Claussen, you hope he drops to the mid to late teens and you package a deal to get back into the first round to take him. With Cassel only being given one season and with him being Pioli's "guy"....a lot of you Claussen lovers best be prepared, because you're going to be horribly dissapointed when the Draft ends Day One.

[BigCatDaddy]

How many great safety's have been taken in the top 10? Sean Taylor is the best one that comes to mind.

[Chiefnj2]

I'm willing to give Cassel one more year. This time with an offense that has been put in place at the beginning of camp, a real OC who has experience developing QBs, a better OL, no LJ and a non-revolving door at receiver.

If they don't want Berry at #5 fall back and grab a 1st rounder in next years draft. If Cassel doesn't improve, you'll have two first rounders to make a move on a QB in 2011.

[KCChiefsMan]

How many great safety's have been taken in the top 10? Sean Taylor is the best one that comes to mind.

I wouldn't even consider a safety in the top 10 under normal circumstances. But Eric Berry is the real deal and he will be an elite safety in the NFL. Anytime you have an opportunity for an impact player like that, you pull the trigger on him. I would draft him #1 overall if we had the #1 pick.

[Iowanian]

Berry isn't the agreed top safety this year either.

[The Franchise]

Berry isn't the agreed top safety this year either.

I've only seen Mike Mayock say that Berry isn't the #1 safety in this class. And Mayock is a fucking moron.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'm willing to give Cassel one more year. This time with an offense that has been put in place at the beginning of camp, a real OC who has experience developing QBs, a better OL, no LJ and a non-revolving door at receiver.

If they don't want Berry at #5 fall back and grab a 1st rounder in next years draft. If Cassel doesn't improve, you'll have two first rounders to make a move on a QB in 2011.

Cassel's going to get that year regardless.

So why pass on a franchise QB when you're likely not going to be in the position to draft one anytime soon?*

*assuming Pioli removes his head from his ass and actually does what he was brought here to do - build a winner.

[Chiefnj2]

Cassel's going to get that year regardless.

So why pass on a franchise QB when you're likely not going to be in the position to draft one anytime soon?



Because you don't know if the team has the franchise QB already, or not. I understand that you disagree.

[evolve27]

Berry is the sexy pick. Give Cassel another year. However, he is the most indecisive QB I have ever seen and I'm tired as shit of all the 3 and outs we had last year.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Because you don't know if the team has the franchise QB already, or not. I understand that you disagree.

There's not one player on this roster that we know with 100% certainty will be a franchise player.

Guess we should skip the draft.

Or we could take every step possible to ensure we have a franchise player at the most important position.

If Scott Pioli was to pass on Jimmy Clausen because of Cassel, he deserves to be fired.

[Chiefnj2]

There's not one player on this roster that we know with 100% certainty will be a franchise player.

Guess we should skip the draft.

Or we could take every step possible to ensure we have a franchise player at the most important position.

If Scott Pioli was to pass on Jimmy Clausen because of Cassel, he deserves to be fired.

Why isn't Detroit drafting Clausen? Or Tampa?

[Reaper16]

Berry isn't the agreed top safety this year either.
LMAO

[The Franchise]

Why isn't Detroit drafting Clausen? Or Tampa?

Because they already spent a 1st round pick on a QB. They didn't trade for someone else's one year wonder like we did.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Why isn't Detroit drafting Clausen? Or Tampa?

:facepalm:

You really need to work on your Donger impression. It's embarrassing that's the best you could come up with.

[Reaper16]

Why isn't Detroit drafting Clausen? Or Tampa?
Because they drafted QB prospects in the first round last year.

[Sully]

Why isn't Detroit drafting Clausen? Or Tampa?

They both drafted who they believe to be their franchise guy last year.

This isn't that hard to figure out.

[RJ]

Why isn't Detroit drafting Clausen? Or Tampa?


Well, Detroit has that Stafford guy....

[evolve27]

Why isn't Detroit drafting Clausen? Or Tampa?

Because they have found their saviors in Turk McBride and Ryan Sims, respectively.

[DJ's left nut]

Why isn't Detroit drafting Clausen? Or Tampa?

Back away slowly.

Pretend you never made this comment, and leave the thread.

Because there's no coming back from trying to defend this. If you actually go to the mattresses over this one, you risk becoming KnowMo.

Just walk away.

[MoreLemonPledge]

They both drafted who they believe to be their franchise guy last year.

This isn't that hard to figure out.

And Pioli traded for who he believes will be his franchise guy last year.

This isn't that hard to figure out.

[Chiefnj2]

MoreLemonPledge gets its.

[Mecca]

Berry isn't the agreed top safety this year either.

This is one if the funniest things I've seen posted, is this serious or tongue in cheek?

Also wanting a player to piss me off sure is a nice thing, pray the team sucks because it'll make me mad, good logic.

[Sully]

And Pioli traded for who he believes will be his franchise guy last year.

This isn't that hard to figure out.

let me walk you through this slowly.

Last year Pioli may have thought he was the franchise guy. He obviously made the trade.

But at this moment, we have no evidence that Pioli (or the top flight OC he brought in) still believes that to be the case.

In addition to that, you are comparing two rookies drafted in the first round to a guy who has been in the league for years and showed no growth or ability to get better (quite the opposite, actually).

It's also a guy who's contract was written in such a way to make him easy to walk away from after year 2, which shows that Pioli was hedging his bets on his prior belief of Cassel as a franchise guy.

Let me know if I need to use smaller words.

[Mecca]

That's great and all but I don't think there's any way Pioli is giving up on Cassel yet.

[DJ's left nut]

MoreLemonPledge gets its.

So you're both operating under the presumption that Pioli is a moron?

Because if he genuinely believes that Matt Cassel is a franchise quarterback of any sort, that's precisely what Pioli is.

The question was not "who will the Chiefs draft" but rather "who should they draft".

You're only going to make things worse for yourself. Please, just walk away.

[Mecca]

So you're both operating under the presumption that Pioli is a moron?

Because if he genuinely believes that Matt Cassel is a franchise quarterback of any sort, that's precisely what Pioli is.

The question was not "who will the Chiefs draft" but rather "who should they draft".

You're only going to make things worse for yourself. Please, just walk away.

After last year that is probably the presumption that should be operated under. I don't personally think he's willing to admit he fucked up on Cassel.

I think the Chiefs are going to spend this draft taking a bunch of offense to prove that Cassel is the guy.

[Sully]

That's great and all but I don't think there's any way Pioli is giving up on Cassel yet.

Yes.
You've made it clear that's what you think.
In EVERY thread about the subject.

But thanks for making sure no one forgot.

[Mecca]

Well man I'm sorry but it's the sad reality of the situation.

This forum is the only place where Clausen is even considered an option.

[KCChiefsMan]

this just in from kffl

Chiefs | Could select Clausen No. 5 overall
Mon, 05 Apr 2010 08:22:53 -0700

John Clayton, of ESPN.com, reports Notre Dame QB Jimmy Clausen could fall to the Kansas City Chiefs with the No. 5 overall pick in the NFL Draft. Clausen previously seemed destined to land with the Washington Redskins with the No. 4 overall pick in the draft. However, that now seems unlikely with the Redskins acquiring QB Donovan McNabb from the Philadelphia Eagles.

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/team/21/nfl#ixzz0kFxOA7mE

[Mecca]

"Could" it's 99% likely that Clausen is going to be available with that pick...

[DJ's left nut]

"Could" it's 99% likely that Clausen is going to be available with that pick...

The wildcard would be if STL can't get anywhere with Bradford and Clausen is an easier sign.

[Mecca]

The McNabb trade killed Bradford's contract leverage, he can't play hardball now the Rams are his best destination.

[KCChiefsMan]

Weiss would have to give Pioli one hell of an argument for Clausen if we are going to draft him. Even though we just signed Cassel to a huge contract and gave up a 2nd rounder for him, even with that, I think it's slightly possible that we could draft him. I don't know why, but with Charlie Weiss here, maybe. I hope not though. If it were me, it's Eric Berry or trade out of #5

[Chiefnj2]

So you're both operating under the presumption that Pioli is a moron?

Because if he genuinely believes that Matt Cassel is a franchise quarterback of any sort, that's precisely what Pioli is.

The question was not "who will the Chiefs draft" but rather "who should they draft".

You're only going to make things worse for yourself. Please, just walk away.

People thought Vermeil was a moron after year one with Green.

Yes, I believe that Pioli still believes Cassel is his franchise QB.

Who should KC draft - Berry.

[Mecca]

Please don't use the Green argument, Cassel looked far more inept than Green ever did.

[Sully]

Well man I'm sorry but it's the sad reality of the situation.

This forum is the only place where Clausen is even considered an option.


It's not the reality of the situation. It's your opinion of the situation. In three weeks we'll know the reality of the situation. But no matter how many times or on how many threads you post your opinion, it doesn't change that it's still an opinion.

You know I've never ripped you. I somewhat respect your knowledge. Bit if all you're going to do the next three weeks is post like an eight year old who just learned a new joke and needs to repeat it as many times as possible, it's going to get real fucking old. Hell, I'd think it'd be boring for you to do that.

[KCChiefsMan]

Please don't use the Green argument, Cassel looked far more inept than Green ever did.

hmmmm, not sure. The Green argument is the only hope we have left. Don't try to take that away from us.

[Mecca]

At this point I think getting worked up that the Chiefs might take a QB isn't worth it.

If they were gonna take one last year was the time to do that and they shit themselves and traded for Matt Cassel.

[Chiefnj2]

Please don't use the Green argument, Cassel looked far more inept than Green ever did.

You must have missed Green's first season in KC. About the same completion percentage and 7 more picks. Plus he had the benefit of having some receivers who actually held onto the ball (on the odd chance they were running correct routes).

[CoMoChief]

who should it be?

REPOST x100,000,000,000,000

JFC, man....:shake:

[KCChiefsMan]

REPOST x100,000,000,000,000

JFC, man....:shake:

really? we are having a pretty solid discussion here, JFC man? isn't that the whole point of this board?

[Iowanian]

This is one if the funniest things I've seen posted, is this serious or tongue in cheek?

Also wanting a player to piss me off sure is a nice thing, pray the team sucks because it'll make me mad, good logic.


I've already accepted that the team is going to suck, I'm using about 30 years of data to support my belief.

I was half needling regarding Berry, but there are analysts who believe some teams don't have him rated the highest.

I just think its' funny because of your comments about players from Iowa....I've watched them and think Bulaga is a very good LT prospect, and O-line is definitely a position of need for the Chiefs.

Personally, I'm going to stop trying to guess what they'll do and hope I'm happy with the results on the field because frankly, draft day doesn't do that. There are quite a few options that will make me happy, including Berry or trading down. Whatever makes the team improve the most.

If they take someone that makes some of you self appointed experts turn inside out.....awesome.

[MoreLemonPledge]

If we had drafted Sanchez last year and he played like he did last year, some of you would be calling for his head. Keep in mind that the Jets managed to make the playoffs in spite of him, certainly not because of him. Imagine how terrible he would have been on this team.

Very few QBs would have excelled in the situation the Chiefs had last year. If Cassel still plays as poorly this season, I will eat all the crow in the world. But Pioli will give him another chance.

Again, I don't see the point in swallowing Clausen's load every other post. It's just not going to happen.

[The Franchise]

If we had drafted Sanchez last year and he played like he did last year, some of you would be calling for his head. Keep in mind that the Jets managed to make the playoffs in spite of him, certainly not because of him. Imagine how terrible he would have been on this team.

Very few QBs would have excelled in the situation the Chiefs had last year. If Cassel still plays as poorly this season, I will eat all the crow in the world. But Pioli will give him another chance.

Again, I don't see the point in swallowing Clausen's load every other post. It's just not going to happen.

Once again....not true.

I, like I'm sure many others around here, would be perfectly fine giving a rookie QB time. I am not, however, fine with giving a 28 year old QB time because he should fucking have it at this point in time.

[notorious]

The 10% of Okung supporters need to be raped by a pineapple injected with AIDs and antifreeze.



J/K. Okung supporters, state why he should be the pick over the most important position on the field and the best safety prospect to come along in a while.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Once again....not true.

I, like I'm sure many others around here, would be perfectly fine giving a rookie QB time. I am not, however, fine with giving a 28 year old QB time because he should fucking have it at this point in time.

He proved he's capable when he was in New England. Maybe that was a flash in the pan, but you really can't argue that he was in a good situation last year. In fact, it was completely pathetic. This season will be telling.

[The Franchise]

He proved he's capable when he was in New England. Maybe that was a flash in the pan, but you really can't argue that he was in a good situation last year. In fact, it was completely pathetic. This season will be telling.

I've said this a million times before....and I'll use it one more fucking time.

Last year the offensive line improved and Charles lit it up and actually gave the Chiefs a semblance of a running attack. Why then did Cassel regress and play worse than he did in the 2nd half?

[ChiefsCountry]

Everybody who wanted Sanchez wanted a stop gap QB like Garcia or Harrington to take the early season beating.

[Rain Man]

I've said this a million times before....and I'll use it one more ****ing time.

Last year the offensive line improved and Charles lit it up and actually gave the Chiefs a semblance of a running attack. Why then did Cassel regress and play worse than he did in the 2nd half?


Maybe Pioli told him to do it to get a better schedule next year.

[irishjayhawk]

1a. Jimmy Clausen
1b. Eric Berry

How exactly do we get the picks to complete this awesome draft?

[MoreLemonPledge]

I've said this a million times before....and I'll use it one more fucking time.

Last year the offensive line improved and Charles lit it up and actually gave the Chiefs a semblance of a running attack. Why then did Cassel regress and play worse than he did in the 2nd half?

Must be because he was 28 1/2 instead of just 28.

I honestly think Cassel was still rushing his throws because he was accustomed to having no time behind the line. The same thing would happen to a rookie.

I'm not saying he's fucking Peyton Manning. I am saying that he will deservedly get another season.

[irishjayhawk]

I've said this a million times before....and I'll use it one more ****ing time.

Last year the offensive line improved and Charles lit it up and actually gave the Chiefs a semblance of a running attack. Why then did Cassel regress and play worse than he did in the 2nd half?

That's something a lot of people failed to notice. I noticed it but among the group of people I personally know, I'm the only one.

[Mecca]

I'd like to know what he proved with New England, that he can throw a WR screen to Randy Moss?

[DeezNutz]

The 28-year-old rookie.

[MoreLemonPledge]

I'd like to know what he proved with New England, that he can throw a WR screen to Randy Moss?

That he can take a team to 11-5.

[The Franchise]

Must be because he was 28 1/2 instead of just 28.

I honestly think Cassel was still rushing his throws because he was accustomed to having no time behind the line. The same thing would happen to a rookie.

I'm not saying he's fucking Peyton Manning. I am saying that he will deservedly get another season.

He rushed a lot of throws because he's a shitty QB. Look at how many sacks he took in New England. He either gets happy feet when there is no pressure...or he holds onto the ball to long and takes a sack.

[DeezNutz]

That he can take a team to 11-5.

That he can't throw beyond 10 yards.

[Mecca]

:facepalm:

I really hate our fan base, the scrub QB needs time, never draft one!

[Mr. Flopnuts]

1a. Jimmy Clausen
1b. Eric Berry

I won't even respond now. It's been done.

[Mecca]

I'd like to know how a QB who is accustomed to taking sacks "rushes throws" dude holds the ball forever and by the time he gets to the 2nd read if it's not open he starts moving around and fucks up the protection.

This is a 28 year old not a rookie doing this.

[The Franchise]

That he can take a team to 11-5....that went 16-0 the year before.

FYP

[Mecca]

That he can take more sacks in 1 year than Tom Brady does in 2 combined.

[MoreLemonPledge]

:facepalm:

I really hate our fan base, the scrub QB needs time, never draft one!

I'm not saying that. I'm not even saying he's a great QB.

I'm trying to get it through everybody's head that the Chiefs won't draft a QB, not matter what you, me, or anyone else thinks. Just like Sanchez last year.

[Mecca]

And that is why our franchise will never win.

We've seen this story 5 other times, why must we continue to do it, and on top of that watch people support it.

[Brock]

I'm not saying that. I'm not even saying he's a great QB.

I'm trying to get it through everybody's head that the Chiefs won't draft a QB, not matter what you, me, or anyone else thinks. Just like Sanchez last year.

Yeah, no shit. It's a big reason this team hasn't won a playoff game in nearly 20 years.

[MoreLemonPledge]

And that is why our franchise will never win.

We've seen this story 5 other times, why must we continue to do it, and on top of that watch people support it.

Why must we continue to think they're going to draft Clausen? They aren't.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Yeah, no shit. It's a big reason this team hasn't won a playoff game in nearly 20 years.

We didn't win one when we had a Pro Bowl QB and the #1 rated offense.

Don't say the biggest reason we didn't win was QB play. There are many factors.

[Mecca]

Why must we continue to think they're going to draft Clausen? They aren't.

Why do people continue to support the same stupid shit this team has been doing for 30 years?

I don't really think anyone thinks the Chiefs will take Clausen but it's nice to think our team might for once do something different. But no we'll play it safe, 9-7 is all they need.

[BigMeatballDave]

So, right now there are at least 9 people who voted in this poll that should simply fuck off...
Posted via Mobile Device

[Brock]

We didn't win one when we had a Pro Bowl QB and the #1 rated offense.

Don't say the biggest reason we didn't win was QB play. There are many factors.

9 out of 10 Super Bowl winners have a franchise QB. The Chiefs don't, and haven't for 40 years.

[Mecca]

I wonder why Okung is in the poll since it's blatantly obvious he's going ahead of the Chiefs pick.

[ChiefsCountry]

Other than DeBerg beating Todd Marinovich in the playoffs, this franchise hasn't won a playoff game without a Hall of Fame QB leading it. That should tell you what we need to win.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Why do people continue to support the same stupid shit this team has been doing for 30 years?

I don't really think anyone thinks the Chiefs will take Clausen but it's nice to think our team might for once do something different. But no we'll play it safe, 9-7 is all they need.

When did I say that?

Again, all I'm saying is that we will not draft Clausen, no matter whether anyone on this board thinks we should or not.

[Mecca]

You'd think the Chiefs fan base would get it more than any other, numerous times the Chiefs had the better team on the field and lost to the team with the superior QB.

Yet, it's still not understood.

[Brock]

When did I say that?

Again, all I'm saying is that we will not draft Clausen, no matter whether anyone on this board thinks we should or not.

We're arguing about what they should do, not what they will do.

[Mecca]

When did I say that?

Again, all I'm saying is that we will not draft Clausen, no matter whether anyone on this board thinks we should or not.

Great, on the same token don't try to sell me the shit log that is Matt Cassel, we're not winning shit with him. Which is what you were doing a bit ago.

And no one really wants to talk about what the Chiefs will do, last years draft was an abortion so what we have to go on is not pretty. It's better to talk about what they should do.

[MoreLemonPledge]

We were 30th in yards allowed last year, 29th in points allowed, and 31st in run defense.

Drafting another QB will not solve those problems.

[BigMeatballDave]

Detroit? Seriously? Don't act stupid.Why isn't Detroit drafting Clausen? Or Tampa?
Posted via Mobile Device

[DeezNutz]

We were 30th in yards allowed last year, 29th in points allowed, and 31st in run defense.

Drafting another QB will not solve those problems.

Another?

[Mecca]

You know they have more than 1 pick right?

It's much harder to find a QB outside of the first than it is any other position.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Detroit? Seriously? Don't act stupid.
Posted via Mobile Device

He was trying to make a point. They're not drafting Clausen because their GM/coaching staff believes they have their QBotF, just like the Chiefs.

[Mecca]

Another?

Croyle is still filling the draft a QB quota, the Chiefs can only use 1 pick in the first 4 rounds on a QB every 6 years, otherwise, it's to many.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Another?

Another meaning one in addition to what we already have.

[DeezNutz]

He's not the future. He's the here and now, and he fucking sucks.

28. 20 motherfucking 8.

[DeezNutz]

Another meaning one in addition to what we already have.

We don't have a QB, so that's why we need to draft one.

[RedThat]

We didn't win one when we had a Pro Bowl QB and the #1 rated offense.

Don't say the biggest reason we didn't win was QB play. There are many factors.

I've stress this many times on here, biggest reason Chiefs haven't won a bowl or a playoff game in years was because they weren't balanced on both sides of the ball.

They either had a great offense, and no defense or a great defense and no offense. Balance wins! And is the key to success in any professional sport.

If you lineup Trent Green and that #1 rated offense, with a top 10 defense those years, Chiefs would've won bowls. And many here wouldn't be saying you NEED a franchise quarterback if you want to a SB.

[Mecca]

28 year old QB's that rode the pine since high school should be looked at the same as 5 star recruits that started 3 years and were top 5 picks and are 22.

[SAUTO]

1a berry
1b clausen


IMO these really should be all we think about

[Mecca]

See if you wanna talk about what the Chiefs will do, I think OT and WR are their first 2 picks, I think that's really stupid so that's why I'd rather not talk about it.

[RedThat]

Im a big fan of Suh. If he is there at #5, slight chance of that happening, but if he is, I'd take him over both Berry or Clausen.

[Mecca]

So you want 3 straight 5 techs?

[SAUTO]

And that is why our franchise will never win.

We've seen this story 5 other times, why must we continue to do it, and on top of that watch people support it.

funny that you throw out shit that happened under a TOTALLY different regime, and yesterday corrected someone when they smacked on buffalo that they changed regimes so the past really couldnt be considered. so in all honesty we have seen this happen only ONCE with this regime no?

[MoreLemonPledge]

28 year old QB's that rode the pine since high school should be looked at the same as 5 star recruits that started 3 years and were top 5 picks and are 22.

He's had more success than Alex Smith or David Carr. The failure rate for 1st Rd QBs is as high as any other position.

Pioli took the consensus best FA available a year ago, who he knew better than anyone and had just led a team to 11-5. It was the smart move to make.

[LaChapelle]

Berry
there will always be Bret Favre

[Mecca]

funny that you throw out shit that happened under a TOTALLY different regime, and yesterday corrected someone when they smacked on buffalo that they changed regimes so the past really couldnt be considered. so in all honesty we have seen this happen only ONCE with this regime no?

Did Buffalo's GM make their first big player move the same shit the last Gm would have done?

We've moved on someone elses backup QB numerous times and here it is yet again.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[ChiefsCountry]

He's had more success than Alex Smith or David Carr. The failure rate for 1st Rd QBs is as high as any other position.

Pioli took the consensus best FA available a year ago, who he knew better than anyone and had just led a team to 11-5. It was the smart move to make.

It was a shitty move at the time and still is today. Trading for Cassel never was a smart move, unless we were going to rape Denver or Tampa Bay with him.

[Jenson71]

We should ask voyager.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Chiefs seriously look at drafting Dan Williams if they view Branden Albert as a solid LT for many years and don't think that Safety is worth taking at #5. That is, if they don't get a reasonable trade down offer.

[CoMoChief]

GAY!!!!!!!!

[Mecca]

He's had more success than Alex Smith or David Carr. The failure rate for 1st Rd QBs is as high as any other position.

Pioli took the consensus best FA available a year ago, who he knew better than anyone and had just led a team to 11-5. It was the smart move to make.

Consensus?

Were you here when no one wanted anything to do with Matt Cassel and then the trade happened and 95% of those people flipped their stances?

[CoMoChief]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Chiefs seriously look at drafting Dan Williams if they view Branden Albert as a solid LT for many years and don't think that Safety is worth taking at #5. That is, if they don't get a reasonable trade down offer.

JFC Dan Williams is NOT a top 5 pick.

[Mecca]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Chiefs seriously look at drafting Dan Williams if they view Branden Albert as a solid LT for many years and don't think that Safety is worth taking at #5. That is, if they don't get a reasonable trade down offer.

It's going to be a bunch of offense, these guys are invested in Cassel. They have a ton riding on him they need to make him look like he wasn't a fucked up decision so here come the cover your ass moves.

[LaChapelle]

I can live with Croyle and Cassel
Pollard and Brown memories
not so much

[Tribal Warfare]

1a. Jimmy Clausen
1b. Eric Berry

pretty much this baby

[MoreLemonPledge]

JFC Dan Williams is NOT a top 5 pick.

And Tyson Jackson was?

[Mecca]

And Tyson Jackson was?

Ok so your argument is, "Our front office is fucking dumb"

[RedThat]

So you want 3 straight 5 techs?

I don't look at it that way.

I view him as a player that has the ability to dominate at the next level. He has such great versitility, you can line him up at either the 4-3 or 3-4 he gives you many options on defense, and imo will change the face of a defense, a guy you can build around. He is a rare talent coming out.

I haven't seen anybody with that kinda size to have both the combination of great strength, power and explosiveness like he has. Plus, he uses his hands very very well. The dude can disengage well at the point of attack and shed blocks. He plays like a men amongst boys at the collegiate level, I can only imagine what he is going to do at the pro level. I think he has the most important attributes that are necessary for DL to be great. Add to the fact he has a nastiness and mean streak about him better than most lineman that are coming out. I think he is the best player in the draft.

[SAUTO]

Did Buffalo's GM make their first big player move the same shit the last Gm would have done?

We've moved on someone elses backup QB numerous times and here it is yet again.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

i could care less what buffalo did. the POINT IS that this regime is different. you cant say what will happen with ANY amount of certainty. same as the different regime in buffalo.

[Sully]

If we had drafted Sanchez last year and he played like he did last year, some of you would be calling for his head. Keep in mind that the Jets managed to make the playoffs in spite of him, certainly not because of him. Imagine how terrible he would have been on this team.

Very few QBs would have excelled in the situation the Chiefs had last year. If Cassel still plays as poorly this season, I will eat all the crow in the world. But Pioli will give him another chance.

Again, I don't see the point in swallowing Clausen's load every other post. It's just not going to happen.

Who?
Who is this "some of you" you are imagining that wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a rookie in his first year and an NFL vet who has regressed?

It's easy to make up scenerios when you use the vagueness you employ here.

[mlyonsd]

No matter what happens this is going to be an ugly place the night they draft the first round. I love it.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Ok so your argument is, "Our front office is fucking dumb"

No, my argument is that Pioli will take who he wants, not who was mocked to him by Todd McShay.

If they don't view Safety as a position worth investing that high on, it very well could be Dan Williams. You say that they want to hedge their bets with Cassel, but why wouldn't they do the same with Tyson Jackson (even if the thought of taking another defensive lineman makes me want to vomit)?

I'm firmly aboard the Berry bandwagon, but I wouldn't be shocked to see them take the other Tennessee player.

[SAUTO]

Consensus?

Were you here when no one wanted anything to do with Matt Cassel and then the trade happened and 95% of those people flipped their stances?

i think he was talking about writers and people around the NFL, not message board gurus

[The Franchise]

I don't look at it that way.

I view him as a player that has the ability to dominate at the next level. He has such great versitility, you can line him up at either the 4-3 or 3-4 he gives you many options on defense, and imo will change the face of a defense, a guy you can build around. He is a rare talent coming out.

I haven't seen anybody with that kinda size to have both the combination of great strength, power and explosiveness like he has. Plus, he uses his hands very very well. The dude can disengage well at the point of attack and shed blocks. He plays like a men amongst boys at the collegiate level, I can only imagine what he is going to do at the pro level. I think he has the most important attributes that are necessary for DL to be great. Add to the fact he has a nastiness and mean streak about him better than most lineman that are coming out. I think he is the best player in the draft.

Suh would be a waste of a pick. He's not a NT and we already drafted two 3-4 DEs. And I don't see us going to a 4-3 if we draft him.

[Mecca]

Trading for someone elses backup QB is the shit Carl did for 20 years, how hard is that to understand.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Who?
Who is this "some of you" you are imagining that wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a rookie in his first year and an NFL vet who has regressed?

It's easy to make up scenerios when you use the vagueness you employ here.

I'm sure there would be a number of people pissed off if we took Sanchez and he had a poor first year. There would be people still calling for us to draft Clausen and have them both compete.

Hell, there have been people saying that we should draft a QB early every year until we find the right one, even though each one will only get 1 season to start.

Sorry I don't remember everybody's name and exactly what they post. I'll be sure to try harder.

[Mecca]

Most of the people who absolutely despise Cassel would be a lot more patient with a rookie QB.

28 year olds don't get the same time or patience as rookies do that's completely different. You move on a guy Cassel's age that's a win now player, he's expected to be good right now.

That's basically comparing apples to oranges, if Sanchez plays 6 years and never improves then that's a problem.

[SAUTO]

Trading for someone elses backup QB is the shit Carl did for 20 years, how hard is that to understand.

i think everyone understands that, SOME just dont think we can assume that will be the status quo after ONE YEAR.

[Mecca]

I don't even get your argument, what is it?

Hey we traded for Cassel but we might draft a QB someday!

[ChiefsCountry]

Its worst than status quo, Pioli made moves last year that would make Carl look like a HOF GM.

[CoMoChief]

And Tyson Jackson was?

No, but there's actually a guy that will be there that's a legit player and a player of glaring need on this team.

[Mecca]

Its worst than status quo, Pioli made moves last year that would make Carl look like a HOF GM.

Pretty much...

"I love this time of year when teams make cuts, evaluate blah blah blah"

Claims guy from Patriots as the 1 move.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Most of the people who absolutely despise Cassel would be a lot more patient with a rookie QB.

28 year olds don't get the same time or patience as rookies do that's completely different. You move on a guy Cassel's age that's a win now player, he's expected to be good right now.

That's basically comparing apples to oranges, if Sanchez plays 6 years and never improves then that's a problem.

Cassel has played 2 seasons. He has 2 seasons of wear on his body, 2 seasons of actual experience.

It's not unheard of for QBs to play well into their late 30's, and he's not a guy who's been starting since he was 21. He could easily play for another 10 years. The age thing is irrelevant.

[RedThat]

Suh would be a waste of a pick. He's not a NT and we already drafted two 3-4 DEs. And I don't see us going to a 4-3 if we draft him.

I disagree. Suh would be an outstanding choice, and imo would turn this defense around.

He'd only be a waste if the Chiefs stuck with both Dorsey, and TJ. Then it wouldn't make sense to draft him. But if they drafted him I couldn't see that happening. Dorsey would be expendible and I'd expect the Chiefs to trade him.

But, I will say, I'd pick Suh only because I feel or believe he is a better player and fit than Dorsey. So if they drafted him, I think Dorsey could possibly be the odd man out.

[MoreLemonPledge]

No, but there's actually a guy that will be there that's a legit player and a player of glaring need on this team.

And I completely agree that Berry should be the pick, hence why I said that I wouldn't be surprised to see it, even though I wouldn't agree with it. I'm just trying to steer the conversation toward a scenario that could actually happen.

[The Franchise]

Cassel has played 2 seasons. He has 2 seasons of wear on his body, 2 seasons of actual experience.

It's not unheard of for QBs to play well into their late 30's, and he's not a guy who's been starting since he was 21. He could easily play for another 10 years. The age thing is irrelevant.

There is something wrong....when you never start in your college career.

[SAUTO]

I don't even get your argument, what is it?

Hey we traded for Cassel but we might draft a QB someday!

are you kidding me? my argument is that you are assuming that pioli will never draft a qb high. so far theres nothing to back up your claim. he traded for cassel. got a fairly good deal if cassel works out. if not he made the contract where he could get away from the guy. THAT should say something about how patient pioli will be with this situation. if he was tied to him why not backload the contract? why make it be essentially the same as 2 years of the franchise tag?

[The Franchise]

I disagree. Suh would be an outstanding choice, and imo would turn this defense around.

He'd only be a waste if the Chiefs stuck with both Dorsey, and TJ. Then it wouldn't make sense to draft him. But if they drafted him I couldn't see that happening. Dorsey would be expendible and I'd expect the Chiefs to trade him.

But, I will say, I'd pick Suh only because I feel or believe he is a better player and fit than Dorsey. So if they drafted him, I think Dorsey could possibly be the odd man out.

So let's take one person to make another one a wasted pick. FFS.....

[Mecca]

Cassel has played 2 seasons. He has 2 seasons of wear on his body, 2 seasons of actual experience.

It's not unheard of for QBs to play well into their late 30's, and he's not a guy who's been starting since he was 21. He could easily play for another 10 years. The age thing is irrelevant.

Now you're argument is stupid if you're going to argue Cassel is a rookie why wouldn't you draft the guy who's really a rookie?

What the fuck do you think the guy is Chris Weinke?

This is frankly a double sided argument, he is not a rookie and the age is not irrelevant no matter how bad some people want it to be.

If that's really you're argument then our GM is even dumber than first thought.

[SAUTO]

There is something wrong....when you never start in your college career.



:rolleyes:
not when you back up 2 heisman winners and one of them was the runner up another year IIRC:

[Mecca]

are you kidding me? my argument is that you are assuming that pioli will never draft a qb high. so far theres nothing to back up your claim. he traded for cassel. got a fairly good deal if cassel works out. if not he made the contract where he could get away from the guy. THAT should say something about how patient pioli will be with this situation. if he was tied to him why not backload the contract? why make it be essentially the same as 2 years of the franchise tag?

Right now that deal sucks, we got a shitty QB, a broke dick LB and took a shitty end with a top 3 pick.

Hold me back.

[MoreLemonPledge]

There is something wrong....when you never start in your college career.

Yeah, he picked the wrong school or was extremely unlucky. He happened to play behind two Heisman trophy winners.

[Mecca]

Cassel was suppose to be out Leinart...he didn't, that should tell you something.

[RedThat]

So let's take one person to make another one a wasted pick. FFS.....

Well, if Suh could improve your team a heck of a lot better and then knowing that there is a great chance the Chiefs will get good value in return for a young Glenn dorsey, I don't see anything wrong with that.

[LaChapelle]

Cassel has played 2 seasons. He has 2 seasons of wear on his body, 2 seasons of actual experience.

It's not unheard of for QBs to play well into their late 30's, and he's not a guy who's been starting since he was 21. He could easily play for another 10 years. The age thing is irrelevant.

A sophmore slump
interesting

[The Franchise]

:rolleyes:
not when you back up 2 heisman winners and one of them was the runner up another year IIRC:

Interesting shit here.

Cassel spent his entire Trojan career as a backup behind Heisman Trophy winners Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart. Cassel was the backup for Palmer during his Heisman-winning 2002 season. In the fall, Cassel lost the battle for the starting position to the previous third-string quarterback in Leinart. As a result of Leinart's success, Cassel spent time at tight end and wide receiver in 2003, and some special teams that year. He started at halfback against California once as well, even making his lone collegiate start at that position. During his four seasons there, Cassel completed 19 of 33 passes for 192 yards, with no touchdowns and one interception.

Despite having had little chance to demonstrate his skills in actual game situations at USC, Cassel earned himself a place on several NFL teams' draft boards after working out at USC's 2005 Pro Day. One of Cassel's coaches, Norm Chow, who had left USC to become the offensive coordinator for the Tennessee Titans, had discussed signing Cassel as an undrafted free agent after the 2005 NFL Draft; Chow was surprised to learn the Patriots had drafted Cassel in the seventh round, with the 230th overall pick,ahead of more accomplished college quarterbacks such as Timmy Chang and 2003 Heisman trophy winner Jason White.

[The Franchise]

Well, if Suh could improve your team a heck of a lot better and then knowing that there is a great chance the Chiefs will get good value in return for a young Glenn dorsey, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Except you have no clue if Suh could improve your team or not. You're HOPING that he can.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Now you're argument is stupid if you're going to argue Cassel is a rookie why wouldn't you draft the guy who's really a rookie?

What the fuck do you think the guy is Chris Weinke?

This is frankly a double sided argument, he is not a rookie and the age is not irrelevant no matter how bad some people want it to be.

If that's really you're argument then our GM is even dumber than first thought.

He's not a rookie and I never said he was one. He's a player who has played 2 NFL seasons and doesn't have the wear and tear of 3 seasons in college and however many in the NFL, but has experience leading a team to success in the NFL. It's really an unprecedented situation.

Regardless, his health at 28 is much different than Ben Roethlisberger's at 28. (Please don't twist my words to say that I think he's as good as Roethlisberger. I'm using him as an example because they're the same age)

[RedThat]

Except you have no clue if Suh could improve your team or not. You're HOPING that he can.

lol okay

[The Franchise]

lol okay

Oh...so now Suh is a sure thing?

[MoreLemonPledge]

Interesting shit here.

Yet Leinart still won the Heisman trophy, which is given to the best player in college football. I don't see how that can be a strike against Cassel.

[Bane]

Cassel was suppose to be out Leinart...he didn't, that should tell you something.
That 1 FACT alone should end all the Cassel nuthugging!Lmao.
Posted via Mobile Device

[The Franchise]

Yet Leinart still won the Heisman trophy, which is given to the best player in college football. I don't see how that can be a strike against Cassel.

Leinart, who won the Heisman, was the 3rd string QB. Cassel was SO great at QB that he played TE and WR.

[ChiefsCountry]

Yet Leinart still won the Heisman trophy, which is given to the best player in college football. I don't see how that can be a strike against Cassel.

Cassel was suppose to be the starter and couldn't beat him out.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Cassel was suppose to be the starter and couldn't beat him out.

This is working against you guys. He was supposed to be the starter and couldn't beat him out.

So you're saying he was supposed to be better than the eventual Heisman trophy winner?

[ChiefsCountry]

This is working against you guys. He was supposed to be the starter and couldn't beat him out.

So you're saying he was supposed to be better than the eventual Heisman trophy winner?

He was Palmer's backup, Palmer graduated - Cassel was next in line. He sucked dick and Leinart won the spot. Not that hard.

[The Franchise]

This is working against you guys. He was supposed to be the starter and couldn't beat him out.

So you're saying he was supposed to be better than the eventual Heisman trophy winner?

If you're arguing just to argue....that's fine. But don't be stupid.

He was supposed to beat out Leinart....didn't happen.

He got drafted in the 7th round and was almost cut from the Patriots before Brady went down. He took a 16-0 team to an 11-5 record. He played last year and even after he got a running game and an improved o-line...he fucking regressed.

[Tribal Warfare]

Yet Leinart still won the Heisman trophy, which is given to the best player in college football. I don't see how that can be a strike against Cassel.

Aside from Cassel losing out on the USC starters position, why didn't he try to transfer somewhere else where he could start? Yep, that's the true determination of a leader right there.

[Chiefnj2]

Cassel was suppose to be out Leinart...he didn't, that should tell you something.

Sanchez couldn't beat out Booty, that should tell you something.

[RedThat]

Oh...so now Suh is a sure thing?

Your statement applies to everybody.

Nobody knows how the athletes at the collegiate level will adjust to the pro level. The transition phase is very unpredictable. What many do know however, is that Suh is a better player coming out of college than Dorsey.

Im all about taking risks. I believe to build a good team on either side of the ball it all starts with the trenches. You just need a whole group of guys that are capable of doing it at the next level. Once you have a bunch of good linemen it opens things up and everyone else's job is a heck of a lot easier. Also, your team has the ability to be a lot more creative.

Chiefs can't do that, because imo, they have sh*tty lines and not enough good linemen on both sides of the ball.

[MoreLemonPledge]

He was Palmer's backup, Palmer graduated - Cassel was next in line. He sucked dick and Leinart won the spot. Not that hard.

He was worse than Leinart, who WON THE FUCKING HEISMAN TROPHY. That means that any other QB, nay player, in the nation should have played behind Leinart, because he was better than any of them.

The fact that Cassel was, at any point, considered to start over the Heisman Trophy winner shows that they thought pretty highly of him.

[ChiefsCountry]

He was worse than Leinart, who WON THE ****ING HEISMAN TROPHY. That means that any other QB, nay player, in the nation should have played behind Leinart, because he was better than any of them.

The fact that Cassel was, at any point, considered to start over the Heisman Trophy winner shows that they thought pretty highly of him.

He didn't win the fucking Hesiman first you dense mother fucker.

[MoreLemonPledge]

He took a 16-0 team to an 11-5 record.

Don't use that argument. Brady took an 11-5 team to a 10-6 record.

[MoreLemonPledge]

He didn't win the fucking Hesiman first you dense mother fucker.

So because Cassel couldn't beat out the best QB in the nation, he should be faulted?

Wow, you'll twist anything around to try and make it work.

[mlyonsd]

While I was disappointed with Cassel's play, not all on his own doing, I don't see Pioli throwing him under the bus with a first round pick.

I think you have to look at Pioli's history, and I don't see him picking a QB or Safety in round one.

If I were a betting man I'd say trading down is what he's trying to do first. If he can't get that done I think he picks a lineman, probably OL.

[Bane]

You know why Brady threw 50 td passes? Same reason Manning threw 49.Because their back up QB's were SHIT!
Posted via Mobile Device

[ChiefsCountry]

So because Cassel couldn't beat out the best QB in the nation, he should be faulted?

Wow, you'll twist anything around to try and make it work.

He wasn't the best QB in the nation when he beat him out.

[MoreLemonPledge]

He wasn't the best QB in the nation when he beat him out.

No, he was the Pac-10 Offensive Player of the Year and a member of the All-Pac 10 First Team. He won the Heisman the following year.

[notorious]

Cassel fucking sucks.


End of fucking story.

[Tribal Warfare]

No, he was the Pac-10 Offensive Player of the Year and a member of the All-Pac 10 First Team. He won the Heisman the following year.
The funny thing about this issue you are making a case that Cassel isn't an elite QB.

[ChiefsCountry]

Cassel ****ing sucks.


End of ****ing story.

This.

[MoreLemonPledge]

The funny thing about this issue you are making a case that Cassel isn't an elite QB.

No, I'm making the case that he wasn't a Heisman trophy winning QB. Very few are.

And Leinart was very likely the best QB to ever play at USC, a school with one of the richest traditions in college football (His record indicates that, anyway). How many QBs could say that?

[notorious]

Jesus, did socoppo and his 9 dupes vote for Okung?

[Tribal Warfare]

No, I'm making the case that he wasn't a Heisman trophy winning QB. Very few are.

Yes, you are if he was elite and had the ability to a heisman favorite he would've beat out Leinart. If he had the ability, and still got beat out why didn't he transfer so he could prove everyone wrong? With your own posts you are stating he isn't an elite QB.

[Mecca]

Look, I'm going to explain this once since Lemonpledge is being very dense at best in this debate..

Palmer went to the NFL, the next 2 QB's at SC were Cassel and Leinart, Cassel was a 4 star recruit and Leinart was a 3 star recruit. Cassel was expected to easily win that job and be the SC starter...he was beaten out and Leinart went on to be a great college QB.

Lemon is acting like Leinart was a known quantity during that competition, he wasn't. It was Cassel's job to lose and he did just that.

And for that Sanchez comment, Sanchez was never expected to beat out Booty as Booty had been starting and was a 5 star recruit, a lot of SC fans thought he should of played but it wasn't an expected conclusion like Cassel coming in after Palmer was.

What happened with Leinart and Cassel would have been like if Booty had gone and Sanchez would have been beaten out by Aaron Corp to start the next year.

[RedThat]

Even though Weiss loves Clausen, I really don't think the Chiefs will pick him if he is there at #5.

I can't see it happening. Just can't. My reason for saying that, Im led to believe that the Chiefs are not going to give up on Cassel and the fact is they invested a hefty contract in him just spells that Pioli will stick to him and will depend on Weiss to develop him. To tie up to large contracts into 2 qb's doesnt seem like something the Chiefs would do.

If Berry is there at #5, they could take him? But I think Pioli will go with linemen. It's just Pioli being Pioli and emphasizing on positional value more than anything else.

I do hope Suh falls to 5, because if he does, I fully expect and think the Chiefs will take him. I do think Dorsey will get traded, I can just see it...My crystal ball says YES!..lol im joking around here..But seriously, I think for Pioli it's about focusing on positional value, and finding the right type of players that know that have the ability to adapt and know their roles within their schemes. Suh is a nice blend of talent, physicality, intellegence, and toughness. He fits the mold of a Pioli type player.

In other words, Suh=better fit in a 3-4 than Dorsey

dorsey=not so good fit in a 3-4, so therefore traded

*that pretty much sums up my reasoning as to why I think the chiefs will make these kind of moves.

[Mecca]

Arguing for another 5 tech makes you more retarded than Saccopoo.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Yes, you are if he was elite and had the ability to a heisman favorite he would've beat out Leinart. If he had the ability, and still got beat out why didn't he transfer so he could prove everyone wrong? With your own posts you are stating he isn't an elite QB.

He doesn't have the ability to be a Heisman favorite. Never did.

Peyton Manning didn't win the Heisman. Neither did Roethlisberger. Neither did Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Donovan McNabb, Brett Favre, Matt Ryan, Mark Sanchez, Matthew Stafford, Alex Smith, Matt Hasselbeck, Kurt Warner, Kyle Orton, Jay Cutler, Joe Flacco, Brady Quinn, Vince Young, Matt Schaub, Tony Romo, Jason Campbell, JaMarcus Russell, etc.

Guess none of them are elite, either.

[notorious]

Arguing for another 5 tech makes you more retarded than Saccopoo.

Easy Mecca, let's not go too far ROFL

[RedThat]

Arguing for another 5 tech makes you more retarded than Saccopoo.

Says the guy who says Jared Allen will be the next Aaron Schobel...Uh huh lol

[Mecca]

Matt Leinart was a great college player surrounded by great talent...but I find it pretty telling that as the heavy favorite to take over as the SC QB after Palmer that Cassel absolutely folded.

[Mecca]

Says the guy who says Jared Allen will be the next Aaron Schobel...Uh huh lol

So you want to use 3 straight top 5 picks on the same position, seriously. Think about how stupid that is.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Look, I'm going to explain this once since Lemonpledge is being very dense at best in this debate..

Palmer went to the NFL, the next 2 QB's at SC were Cassel and Leinart, Cassel was a 4 star recruit and Leinart was a 3 star recruit. Cassel was expected to easily win that job and be the SC starter...he was beaten out and Leinart went on to be a great college QB.

Lemon is acting like Leinart was a known quantity during that competition, he wasn't. It was Cassel's job to lose and he did just that.

I don't care whether or not he was supposed to beat out Leinart or how many starts they had. Leinart was better, probably the best USC ever had. Cassel wasn't as good as Leinart at USC, and I'm not arguing otherwise. I just don't see how you could fault Cassel for not winning the Heisman.

[KCChiefsMan]

He doesn't have the ability to be a Heisman favorite. Never did.

Peyton Manning didn't win the Heisman. Neither did Roethlisberger. Neither did Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Donovan McNabb, Brett Favre, Matt Ryan, Mark Sanchez, Matthew Stafford, Alex Smith, Matt Hasselbeck, Kurt Warner, Kyle "Pro Bowl" Orton, Jay Cutler, Joe Flacco, Brady Quinn, Vince Young, Matt Schaub, Tony Romo, Jason Campbell, JaMarcus Russell, etc.

Guess none of them are elite, either.

it's pretty well known that winning the Heisman trophy has no correlation with how well they will do in the NFL. In fact, one could argue that there is a correlation with winning the Heisman trophy and NFL failure. That's pretty much common knowledge though.

[MoreLemonPledge]

it's pretty well known that winning the Heisman trophy has no correlation with how well they will do in the NFL. In fact, one could argue that there is a correlation with winning the Heisman trophy and NFL failure. That's pretty much common knowledge though.

My point exactly. So why, of all things, is that being used against Cassel?

[Mecca]

I fault guys for not winning jobs they are suppose to win, that tells me about them as people.

This would be like if after Chase Daniel had gone pro for Missouri, Blaine Gabbert got beat out by the guy that was behind him. The other thing that really really speaks to Cassel as a player is that once he was beaten out by a player who was only a RS Sophomore at the time knowing he'd never play, he decided to play TE instead of transferring to a school where he'd get to play...

There's a lot of very bad signs in that.

[KCChiefsMan]

My point exactly. So why, of all things, is that being used against Cassel?

I have no idea. But I missed that part of this thread and I'm not going back to read it :D

[Mr. Laz]

Berry or Clausen ... depends on what the real scoop is on Clausen.

Weis should know

If we take Clausen then i will take it as a indicator that Clausen isn't a spoiled brat and Weis believes he has the mentality for the NFL.

[Mecca]

My point exactly. So why, of all things, is that being used against Cassel?

He had his chance to start for one of the best college programs in the nation that was right at the beginning of it's turn around, it would have made his career and he folded and was content to ride the pine.

This is the guy that's suppose to lead our franchise?

[MoreLemonPledge]

He had his chance to start for one of the best college programs in the nation that was right at the beginning of it's turn around, it would have made his career and he folded and was content to ride the pine.

This is the guy that's suppose to lead our franchise?

How's Leinart doing in Arizona?

[Bane]

I fault guys for not winning jobs they are suppose to win, that tells me about them as people.

This would be like if after Chase Daniel had gone pro for Missouri, Blaine Gabbert got beat out by the guy that was behind him. The other thing that really really speaks to Cassel as a player is that once he was beaten out by a player who was only a RS Sophomore at the time knowing he'd never play, he decided to play TE instead of transferring to a school where he'd get to play...

There's a lot of very bad signs in that.

All He needs is 150 million dollars worth of pro bowlers around him to make him a great QB /Cassel nuthuggers.
Posted via Mobile Device

[KCChiefsMan]

I fault guys for not winning jobs they are suppose to win, that tells me about them as people.

This would be like if after Chase Daniel had gone pro for Missouri, Blaine Gabbert got beat out by the guy that was behind him. The other thing that really really speaks to Cassel as a player is that once he was beaten out by a player who was only a RS Sophomore at the time knowing he'd never play, he decided to play TE instead of transferring to a school where he'd get to play...

There's a lot of very bad signs in that.

Priest Holmes doesn't agree with that argument

[Mecca]

About the same as Cassel is doing here, that alone should tell you something.

That QB that everyone makes fun of, beat out the guy that is suppose to be our franchise, ponder that.

[Mecca]

Priest Holmes doesn't agree with that argument

Priest Holmes was a RB that had some injury problems...plus multiple RB's play, no one plays musical QB's.

[MoreLemonPledge]

About the same as Cassel is doing here, that alone should tell you something.

That QB that everyone makes fun of, beat out the guy that is suppose to be our franchise, ponder that.

And Leinart was a Heisman trophy winner and a first round pick and might not ever start a whole season for his team. Are you starting to see how this comes around full circle?

[KCChiefsMan]

I'm not saying that I like Cassel. But I will give him one more season before I make my mind up. I think he took more chances towards the end of the season because he didn't care because there wasn't anything to lose. Same with Haley.

I'm not saying that he played great, in fact, I think he played poorly.

Actually, he pretty much sucked.

now I'm questioning myself if I should give him another season or not....

damnit

[SAUTO]

Right now that deal sucks, we got a shitty QB, a broke dick LB and took a shitty end with a top 3 pick.

Hold me back.

really the pick at 3 wasnt part of the trade. we could have taken anyone there. we werent stuck with tj. no matter what you say
Posted via Mobile Device

[RedThat]

So you want to use 3 straight top 5 picks on the same position, seriously. Think about how stupid that is.

Im all about bettering the team in any possible way even if it means taking Suh and trading Dorsey. Think about how sh*tty our DL is, and how Dorsey has not lived up to expectations and also that he is not a good fit in what the team is asking him to do on defense.

What counts is improvement. Thats the way you gotta look at it.

*For example, IF lets say Richard Seymour in his prime was available would you pass on him or take him? I guarantee you there will be many around the league that would want him. Yeah even though he is a 5 tech DE, but a damn good one, and a guy that will make a difference on your team and defense.

[Mecca]

Leinart is more accurate than Cassel is he just doesn't have any kind of arm strength, if Arizona uses a more WCO based passing attack he can be a solid game manager type of QB for them.

[Mr. Laz]

I'm not saying that I like Cassel. But I will give him one more season before I make my mind up. I think he took more chances towards the end of the season because he didn't care because there wasn't anything to lose. Same with Haley.

I'm not saying that he played great, in fact, I think he played poorly.

Actually, he pretty much sucked.

now I'm questioning myself if I should give him another season or not....

damnit
imo taking Clausen doesn't mean Cassel is done ... it just means we finally have a legit QBotF. Cassel will still have every chance to hold off the youngster for as long as he can.

the way it should be imo

[MoreLemonPledge]

Leinart is more accurate than Cassel is he just doesn't have any kind of arm strength, if Arizona uses a more WCO based passing attack he can be a solid game manager type of QB for them.

No better than Cassel, and Arizona used an early first round pick on Leinart. Goes to show that even the most sure picks bust just as often. I doubt anyone here wants to draft a game manager at #5.

[MoreLemonPledge]

imo taking Clausen doesn't mean Cassel is done ... it just means we finally have a legit QBotF. Cassel will still have every chance to hold off the youngster for as long as he can.

the way it should be imo

And we can see how much money we can lock into the QB position.

[Mr. Laz]

Leinart is more accurate than Cassel is he just doesn't have any kind of arm strength, if Arizona uses a more WCO based passing attack he can be a solid game manager type of QB for them.
didn't you just say that a guy not winning the job he supposed to win means something?

that's leinart in a nutshell

[SAUTO]

Interesting shit here.

so chow wanted him but the pats beat him to it huh?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mecca]

I'm not saying that I like Cassel. But I will give him one more season before I make my mind up. I think he took more chances towards the end of the season because he didn't care because there wasn't anything to lose. Same with Haley.

I'm not saying that he played great, in fact, I think he played poorly.

Actually, he pretty much sucked.

now I'm questioning myself if I should give him another season or not....

damnit

The problem with this is,the Chiefs schedule isn't that difficult next year, they go out and win 6 games, we aren't getting a QB and now we're stuck.

Which is why this idea that we can easily move on from Cassel is is far fetched unless we're of the belief that the Chiefs are so bad we're going to continue to pick top 5 every year.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Im all about bettering the team in any possible way even if it means taking Suh and trading Dorsey. Think about how sh*tty our DL is, and how Dorsey has not lived up to expectations and also that he is not a good fit in what the team is asking him to do on defense.What counts is improvement. Thats the way you gotta look at it.

*For example, IF lets say Richard Seymour in his prime was available would you pass on him or take him? I guarantee you there will be many around the league that would want him. Yeah even though he is a 5 tech DE, but a damn good one, and a guy that will make a difference on your team and defense.

Dorsey improved immensely in his 2nd season and fit or no fit if he continues to develop (with Crennel on board highly likely) KC would be foolish to trade him.

[Mecca]

Yes getting beaten out by a HOFer is much the same as getting beaten out by the dude you are suppose to beat out that was ranked about 50 spots lower than you on the recruiting list.

Same shit there.

[Mr. Laz]

And we can see how much money we can lock into the QB position.
uncapped year ... this is the year to do it.

get ahead of the QB position for once and start building it up instead of scrambling for someone who can take a snap and not trip over his own feet.

[KCChiefsMan]

with the power of hindsight. I would much prefer Mark Sanchez/ Rey Maualuga or Jairus Byrd then Tyson Jackson and Matt Cassel/Vrabel

actually a lot of those 2nd round picks are looking pretty good

[Mecca]

with the power of hindsight. I would much prefer Mark Sanchez/ Rey Maualuga or Jairus Byrd then Tyson Jackson and Matt Cassel/Vrabel

actually a lot of those 2nd round picks are looking pretty good

Numerous people said Sanchez/Maualuga at the time of the draft, so that isn't even hindsight.

[RedThat]

Dorsey improved immensely in his 2nd season and fit or no fit if he continues to develop (with Crennel on board highly likely) KC would be foolish to trade him at this point.

Like I was mentioning earlier, if they can improve that position with a better player and get great value in return for him, then I don't see anything wrong with that move.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Sanchez would have been completely atrocious on the Chiefs last year.

[SAUTO]

Leinart, who won the Heisman, was the 3rd string QB. Cassel was SO great at QB that he played TE and WR.

you keep harping on that 3rd string. why? palmer was 1, cassel 2, and leinart 3, when palmer left leinart beat out cassel and then won a heisman, was runner up on another and how many titles did they win?? yeah lets knock a guy for that
Posted via Mobile Device

[DeezNutz]

Sanchez would have been completely atrocious on the Chiefs last year.

Because he would have HAD to have played week one or even week 17.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Like I was mentioning earlier, if they can improve that position with a better player and get great value in return for him, then I don't see anything wrong with that move.

How about we improve the secondary by drafting Berry or the QB position with Claussen. I like both of those choices infintely more then another damn 3-4 end. I would love to have Suh if they would move to a 4-3, but that isn't happening.

[DeezNutz]

When measuring a QB prospect, the most important quality is how well he'd be able to do in year one.

[Mecca]

Because people that wanted Sanchez cared how good he was right out of the gate.

Trading for a 28 year old QB puts different win now parameters on a move than drafting a QB top 5 does.

It's not the same situation at all.

[SAUTO]

He had his chance to start for one of the best college programs in the nation that was right at the beginning of it's turn around, it would have made his career and he folded and was content to ride the pine.

This is the guy that's suppose to lead our franchise?

so a qb who will play te or wr to get on the field is now " content to ride the pine"?
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

imo taking Clausen doesn't mean Cassel is done ... it just means we finally have a legit QBotF. Cassel will still have every chance to hold off the youngster for as long as he can.

the way it should be imo

i agree
Posted via Mobile Device

[Bane]

uncapped year ... this is the year to do it.

get ahead of the QB position for once and start building it up instead of scrambling for someone who can take a snap and not trip over his own feet.

Bing Bing Bing!!!!!!!!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

[RedThat]

How about we improve the secondary by drafting Berry or the QB position with Claussen. I like both of those choices infintely more then another damn 3-4 end. I would love to have Suh if they would move to a 4-3, but that isn't happening.

I like Berry. And if the Chiefs pick him w/o addressing other areas of need like OLB, ILB, and/or NT I'd still expect their defense to suck.

Don't get me wrong, Berry will help, but the key weaknesses to our defense last year was that we both sucked against the pass and the run. And safety or no safety, I don't give damn who you got back there, if you can't get to the quarterback or stop the run you ain't fielding a good defense. Bottomline.

I'd be happy w/ Berry. But Id pissed if the chiefs didn't get another OLB to go w/ him and at least one or two ILB's or a NT.

Im a firm believer in a good front 7. Chiefs severly lack talent upfront on defense. And also OL. If you have those two components, everyone elses job on the team is a heck of a lot easier and your team can do more things by being creative.

*But Im just being me. Stating my opinion. I feel that linemen have a lot more value than other positions. Thats just me bro. I just think linemen and linebackers set more of an importance and serve as better examples out there that overall make your team better.

[KCChiefsMan]

I was a guy who wanted Sanchez, for the record. That was before the whole Cassel trade. Don't make me dig up the old posts.

[Chiefnj2]

Mecca is arguing against Cassel and talking about the importance of getting a franchise QB, yet he votes for Berry in the poll.

Which is it, Berry or Clausen?

[Mecca]

Then why are you pimping Suh he's not a NT...

[Mecca]

Mecca is arguing against Cassel and talking about the importance of getting a franchise QB, yet he votes for Berry in the poll.

Which is it, Berry or Clausen?

There's no chance this team will take a QB so I voted for the best realistic option.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

I like Berry. And if the Chiefs pick him w/o addressing other areas of need like OLB, ILB, and or NT I'd still expect their defense to suck.

Don't get me wrong, Berry will help, but the key weaknesses to our defense last year was that we both sucked against the pass and the run. And safety or no safety, I don't give damn who you got back there, if you can't get to the quarterback or stop the run you ain't fielding a good defense. Bottomline.

I'd be happy w/ Berry. But Id pissed if the chiefs didn't get another OLB to go w/ it and a couple of ILB's or NT.

Im a firm believer in a good front 7. Chiefs severly lack talent upfront. And also OL. If you have those two, everyone elses job is a heck of a lot easier and your team can do more things by being creative.

*But Im just being me, I value linemen a lot more than other positions. Thats just me bro. I just think linemen and linebackers set more of an importance and serve as better examples out there that overall make your team better.

You are absolutely correct. Berry alone won't fix everything, but a nose and some backers can be had with our other picks in this draft. There is some good value to be had.

[RedThat]

You are absolutely correct. Berry alone won't fix everything, but a nose and some backers can be had with our other picks in this draft. There is some good value to be had.

I agree.

I think KC is in a great situation and I really hope they capitalize on this opportunity to improve their team. Mainly the defensive side of the ball.

Even if they go Berry in rd 1, I think they can add another linebacker or 2 in rounds 2 and 3. There are some good quality players in this draft that I feel are great fits in a 3-4 scheme and that can help the defense.

[boogblaster]

I agree to the D needs .. but without a NT we have to go back to th 4-3 ...

[notorious]

I agree to the D needs .. but without a NT we have to go back to th 4-3 ...


Why did we switch to the 3-4 again?


This defense would be miles ahead of where they are if they would have stuck with the 4-3.

[Brock]

Says the guy who says Jared Allen will be the next Aaron Schobel...Uh huh lol

Says the guy who says Glenn Dorsey is a bust after one season.

[DaneMcCloud]

If we had drafted Sanchez last year and he played like he did last year, some of you would be calling for his head. Keep in mind that the Jets managed to make the playoffs in spite of him, certainly not because of him. Imagine how terrible he would have been on this team.

Bullshit.

And Sanchez played his best ball of the year in the playoffs.

You're a fucking moron.

And no, the Chiefs won't take Clausen because they're the fucking Chiefs.

[whoman69]

Why did we go with the 3-4? Because its the way to go to win a championship. We weren't exactly tearing it up in the 4-3 so I have no idea why people are still crying about the switch. The parts we had have responded well to the 3-4 IMO. We didn't have any tackles for a 4-3 either. The two players we drafted for the 3-4 last year need to pick it up.

I think the teams ahead of us are pretty transparent in what they need and will go for with the only real choice being in Detroit. They could go OT but Suh and McCoy will be too good for them to pass up. I'd say if either of those DT's fall to us we should grab them up. I don't care if they're the prototypical 3-4 tackles. I think McCoy can be, and Suh is the type player that is athletic enough to make people rethink the position. Both are around 300.

More than likely I think our choices are going to be between Bulaga, Berry and Clausen. I've said before that I don't think Clausen is head and shoulders above those who will be available in the 3rd. Picking Clausen also tells Cassel he's done. Even though I would still see him starting the season as number one, we won't see any production from him in a lame duck status.

Bulaga has all the physical tools but lacks technique. Its easy to say coach him up. That takes time, and all too often a player will revert to what they are familiar with in crunch time. Long run it might be a good choice, but we need help right now. I see him more a selection for the mid first round where teams may not need him there immediately.

I am going to admit that I am reversing my course of what I have said previous. Berry is the best player available. He is at a position of great need. I'm still not convinced that safety is a position that should be picked this high. There are an increasing number of teams though that have game changing safeties on their team, guys like Polumalu, Reed, Sanders. They can be like adding an extra linebacker against the run, something which has been soft for us. We could also use a ball hawk in the passing game.

[Brock]

The parts they had responded well to the 3-4? That defense had its poop pushed in all year.

[notorious]

Why did we go with the 3-4? Because its the way to go to win a championship. We weren't exactly tearing it up in the 4-3 so I have no idea why people are still crying about the switch.



Look at history. Trend SETTING defense wins games and championships, not the followers.

We fucked ourselves when we went 3-4 when we did. A lot of teams made the switch when we did so now we have to compete with them for the same type of player.

I love the way a 3-4 can be geared toward an all-out aggressive scheme. Pittsburgh looks like they attempt jailbreak blitzes, but they only send 4-5 players. If Crennel adopts this scheme I will LOVE it.

The difference this year is Crennel. Hopefully he can make it shine.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Bullshit.

And Sanchez played his best ball of the year in the playoffs.

You're a fucking moron.

And no, the Chiefs won't take Clausen because they're the fucking Chiefs.

Jesus, Dane. No one can admit that Sanchez had a good year.

His team led the league in rushing and defense and he still posted a line of 12:20 TD:Int, 2381 yds, 6.9 Y/A, and a 54.2 comp %.

Just imagine what his stats would have been with the Chiefs. He would make Cassel look like a Pro Bowler.

[whoman69]

Look at history. Trend SETTING defense wins games and championships, not the followers.

We ****ed ourselves when we went 3-4 when we did. A lot of teams made the switch when we did so now we have to compete with them for the same type of player.

I love the way a 3-4 can be geared toward an all-out aggressive scheme. Pittsburgh looks like they attempt jailbreak blitzes, but they only send 4-5 players. If Crennel adopts this scheme I will LOVE it.

The difference this year is Crennel. Hopefully he can make it shine.
This is a copy cat league.

The days of the dominant defenses winning championships is past. Pittsburg won two years ago because their offense was able to keep up with Arizona's. The game doesn't allow for a team to build a defensive powerhouse because someone is going to find a way to exploit it. Teams need to be more balanced. I think Crennel will make a difference. Its all about confusing the opposition and not allow them to see where the deficiencies are from play to play.

[RustShack]

Weren't both Super Bowl teams built around the QB with a 4-3 defense and both had a good safety?

Deep safety draft.. so get the QB to build around in the first.. and star safety in the second..

[jplrad]

1. Rolando McClain - general on the field and well versed in 3-4 defense.
2. Dan Williams - best nose tackle in the draft(?), cornerstone of the 3-4 defense.

Pioli will not draft a safety with the 5th pick nor will he take Claussen. Okung will be gone by the 5th pick guaranteed. Bulaga is a short armed left tackle and could also be gone.

[Micjones]

Eric Berry or Jimmy Clausen.

[Ming the Merciless]

Maybe it is unlikely but trade should be one of the choices (trade down)....Also, Okung would be awesome but it is unlikely he will be there at #5...Seems like Bulaga or Williams would be a more realistic hope.

[ChiefRon]

OMG. Unbelievable. Same ol' CP.

55% want Berry? Over Clausen (31%)?

Are you kidding me?

Unbelievable.

Let's review.

Rule #1 - You DO NOT pass on a potential franchise QB if you do not currently have one.

We currently do not have one.

If we pass on another potential franchise QB AGAIN, our front office should be replaced AGAIN.

[Mr. Laz]

Why did we switch to the 3-4 again?


This defense would be miles ahead of where they are if they would have stuck with the 4-3.
how many times have you said this?

we went to a 3-4 because our Coaches etc know and want a 3-4. The same reason that other organization switch to a new scheme when they get new coaches.

i get it ... you don't like it. But stop pretending to be confused about what's going on in some kind of pseudo passive, aggressive bitchfest.

[Mr. Laz]

OMG. Unbelievable. Same ol' CP.

55% want Berry? Over Clausen (31%)?

Are you kidding me?

Unbelievable.

Let's review.

Rule #1 - You DO NOT pass on a potential franchise QB if you do not currently have one.

We currently do not have one.

If we pass on another potential franchise QB AGAIN, our front office should be replaced AGAIN.
what if he's not a franchise QB?

[Mecca]

Even if you really want Clausen, it's probably best to accept that is so unlikely it would be stunning if it happened.

[Mecca]

Look at history. Trend SETTING defense wins games and championships, not the followers.

We fucked ourselves when we went 3-4 when we did. A lot of teams made the switch when we did so now we have to compete with them for the same type of player.

I love the way a 3-4 can be geared toward an all-out aggressive scheme. Pittsburgh looks like they attempt jailbreak blitzes, but they only send 4-5 players. If Crennel adopts this scheme I will LOVE it.

The difference this year is Crennel. Hopefully he can make it shine.

We're chasing the 3-4 trend, it's a problem.

On top of that the NE 3-4 was never like Pitt's or Baltimores, they run essentially the cover 2 of 3-4.

[OnTheWarpath15]

what if he's not a franchise QB?

That's absolutely a possibility.

But not to worry, this franchise doesn't have the balls to draft a potential QBOTF and find out.