The case for a 1st round QB?

[bowener]

So I posted all of this in the Teicher Thread, but I thought it would be nice to put it somewhere easier to refer to. Also, it took me about 45 minutes with all of the added info so I wanted to start a thread with it and be an attention whore.

Sadly I am sure all of this can be found somewhere on some website, but I didn't really do an extensive search. Mostly I am procrastinating to keep from finishing up a paper.

Sorry if any of my number are off. Please let me know, and I will try and fix them.

Here are the results for the starting QBs in the Super Bowl since 1994 to Present (ran out of room on my paper). Winner listed first, loser second.
*Bold indicates drafted 1st overall.

Year: Name (round)
1994: Aikman (1) / Kelly (1)
1995: Young (1) / Humphries (6)
1996: Aikman (1) / O'Donnell (3)
1997: Favre (2) / Bledsoe (1)
1998: Elway (1) / Favre (2)
1999: Elway (1) / Chandler (3)
2000: Warner (Un) / McNair (1)
2001: Dilfer (1) / Collins (1)
2002: Brady (6) / Warner (Un)
2003: Johnson (3) / Gannon (4)
2004: Brady (6) / Delhomme (Un)
2005: Brady (6) / McNabb (1)
2006: Ben R. (1) / Hasselbeck (6)
2007: P. Manning (1) / Grossman (1)
2008: E. Manning (1) / Brady (6)
2009: Ben R. (1) / Warner (Un)
2010: Brees (2) / P. Manning (1)

*All percentages are rounded up.

-9 times out of these 17 years a 1st overall drafted QB played in the Super Bowl (6 different players). (53% / 35%).

-9 out of 34 starting QBs were drafted 1st overall (6 different players). (27% / 25%)

-17 out of the 34 starting QBs were drafted in the 1st round (recounting returning QBs) (50%).

-A first round QB won the Super Bowl 10 out of 17 times (59%).

-There have been 3 QBs drafted in the 2nd round (9%), 3 from the 3rd round (9%), 1 from the 4th round (3%), zero from the 5th round, 6 from the 6th round (18%), and 4 undrafted QBs (12%) in the Super Bowl (counting repeat players).

-Only 3 out of these 17 consecutive Super Bowls have had starting QBs not drafted in the 1st round (18%).

Easier to understand numbers: Round drafted for QBs counting returning players (total not counting returning players).

[bold percentages based on the total number of QBs not counting returning players = 24]

1st round: 17 (13 without counting repeats) (50% /54%)
2nd Round: 3 (2) (9% / 8%)
3rd round: 3 (3) (9% / 13%)
4th round: 1 (1) (3% / 4%)
5th round: 0
6th round: 6 (3) (18% / 13%)
Undrafted: 4 (2) (12% / 8%)

That is a total of 13 QBs drafted in the first round compared to 11 QBs drafted in any other round or undrafted without counting their repeat visits.

Ultimately this shows that overwhelmingly a 1st round QB has a statistically higher chance of playing the Super Bowl than any other QB drafted outside of the 1st round.

Edit:

Additional data added (1984 - '93):


XVIII (http://football.about.com/cs/superbowl/a/bl_superbowl18.htm) - 1/22/84
Jim Plunkett, Los Angeles Raiders (1 - *1st overall)
Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins (4)

XIX (http://football.about.com/cs/superbowl/a/bl_superbowl9.htm) - 1/20/85
Joe Montana (http://football.about.com/cs/legends/p/joemontana.htm), San Francisco 49ers (3)
Dan Marino (http://football.about.com/cs/legends/a/danmarino.htm), Miami Dolphins (1)

XX - 1/26/86
Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears (1)
Tony Eason, New England Patriots (1)

XXI - 1/25/87
Phil Simms, New York Giants (1)
John Elway (http://football.about.com/cs/legends/p/johnelway.htm), Denver Broncos (1*)

XXII - 1/31/88
Doug Williams, Washington Redskins (1)
John Elway (http://football.about.com/cs/legends/p/johnelway.htm), Denver Broncos (1*)

XXIII - 1/22/89
Joe Montana (http://football.about.com/cs/legends/p/joemontana.htm), San Francisco 49ers (3)
Boomer Esiason, Cincinnati Bengals (2)

XXIV - 1/28/90
Joe Montana (http://football.about.com/cs/legends/p/joemontana.htm), San Francisco 49ers (3)
John Elway (http://football.about.com/cs/legends/p/johnelway.htm), Denver Broncos (1*)

XXV - 1/27/91
Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants (3)
Jim Kelly (http://football.about.com/library/weekly/bl_jimkelly.htm), Buffalo Bills (1)

XXVI - 1/26/92
Mark Rypien, Washington Redskins (6)
Jim Kelly (http://football.about.com/library/weekly/bl_jimkelly.htm), Buffalo Bills (1)

XXVII - 1/31/93
Troy Aikman (http://football.about.com/cs/legends/p/troyaikman.htm), Dallas Cowboys (1*)
Jim Kelly (http://football.about.com/library/weekly/bl_jimkelly.htm), Buffalo Bills (1)

-5 times a 1st overall drafted QB started (3 different players) (25% / 15%)
-13 1st round QBs out of 20 total (9 different) (65% / 45%).
-1 2nd rounder (5%)
-4 3rd rounders (2 different QBs) (20% / 10%)
-1 4th rounder (5%)
-0 5th rounder (0%)
-1 6th rounder (5%)

Including previous data ('94 - Present):

-Total number of Super Bowls is 27
-Total number of starting QBs is 54 (35 different players)

1st overall- 14/9 (26% / 26%)
1st round- 30/22 (56% / 63%)
2nd round- 4/3 (7% / 9%)
3rd round- 7/5 (13% / 14%)
4th round- 2/2 (4% / 6%)
5th round- 0
6th round- 7/4 (13% / 11%)
7th+/und- 4/4 (7% / 11%)

What this means is that from 1984 - Present:
A Super Bowl QB has been a 1st round draft pick 56% of the time, again overwhelmingly higher than any other round. If you do not count repeat players, it has been an even larger 63% of the time.

I used this site. (http://drafthistory.com/positions/qb.html)

If I had excel I would think about putting this all into a spread sheet.

[Ming the Merciless]

I think you present a VERY good argument. The variable that might be impossible to see is what was the state of the rest of the team when they drafted the QB in the 1st round....For example, what would be the state of the Chiefs right now? I would argue the state of the Chiefs is in complete shambles, for the most part with many needs on both sides of the ball.

Any idea on those 9 teams in the last 17 seasons what the state of the team was the season immediately prior to drafting a QB? (I know it is asking a lot, but your post is quite good, so it makes me wonder about other variables) Were they as much (or worse) in shambles as the Chiefs?

(I guess the ones in Bold they had to have the number one overall pick....so they mustve been fairly bad) I dunno if theyre is any way to compare how bad etc..Since it is kind of subjective...But 1 overall is pretty bad I guess, no matter how you slice it

(Also if you really feel like it you can get 'open office' which has an excel type of program for free I believe).

[bowener]

I think you present a VERY good argument. The variable that might be impossible to see is what was the state of the rest of the team when they drafted the QB in the 1st round....For example, what would be the state of the Chiefs right now? I would argue the state of the Chiefs is in complete shambles, for the most part with many needs on both sides of the ball.

Any idea on those 9 teams in the last 17 seasons what the state of the team was the season immediately prior to drafting a QB? (I know it is asking a lot, but your post is quite good, so it makes me wonder about other variables) Were they as much (or worse) in shambles as the Chiefs?

(Also if you really feel like it you can get 'open office' which has an excel type of program for free I believe).

Without reading in depth on each team I cannot tell you. I can say that any team that drafted a 1st overall QB was probably not in good shape at the time of that draft. You could look to see how many years removed a team is from the year it drafted 1st overall...

An example being Elway drafted in '83, and playing in a SB 4 years later at '87. This obviously does not include trade scenarios or anything like that, just a guesstimate really.

[Mecca]

Several of those QB's went to teams with the 1st overall pick so the teams were awful, Aikman went to a completely awful team, so did Bledsoe, so did Manning.

If you had to have a great supporting cast to make it work every number 1 pick would fail.

[Ming the Merciless]

I think you make a really good argument....Nice post.

( I still cant figure out how to rep someone, but I would rep this post if I knew how)

[BossChief]

This should be stickied in the lounge and draft forum till we fucking get one.

It could be the first thread with 1 million posts.

[Mecca]

We've had this debate every year on this forum for the last 3 years, there are numerous stat arguments that support using a high pick on a QB...

The reason our team doesn't is summed up simply as this...by twitter guy.

Personnel departments know that whiffing on a QB in the top 15 is usually a death sentence... even if you like a guy, there is cold feet

[Ming the Merciless]

Personnel departments know that whiffing on a QB in the top 15 is usually a death sentence... even if you like a guy, there is cold feet

I think you are 100% right on this...I also wonder if they are thinking we will draft our Franchise QB next season, maybe they have their eye/hearts on someone?

[Mecca]

I don't think so because if they're doing their jobs right and go out there and win 6 or 7 games, they won't be able to pick any of those QB's.

[Ming the Merciless]

I don't think so because if they're doing their jobs right and go out there and win 6 or 7 games, they won't be able to pick any of those QB's.

I slightly disagree with you on this....6-7 games this year would put us at 9,10,11 or 12. (selection in 1st round)

5 games would be 6,7, or 8 (selection in 1st round)

I think the odds of us winning 8 games is pretty low...

So if we won 5-7 games we could either get our guy or trade up..right?

[notorious]

The Chiefs are going to get some talent around Cassel, win 8 games (in the next two years), which will push our pick out of the lottery pool of elite QB talent.


.500 Purgatory hell will follow for years.


Summary: Pick your franchise QB when you have a shitty team, or you will play yourself out of the opportunity in following years.

[DeezNutz]

This should be stickied in the lounge and draft forum till we ****ing get one.

It could be the first thread with 1 million posts.

I was going to suggest the same thing.

Sticky the OP.

[Ming the Merciless]

The Chiefs are going to get some talent around Cassel, win 8 games (in the next two years), which will push our pick out of the lottery pool of elite QB talent.


.500 Purgatory hell will follow for years.


Summary: Pick your franchise QB when you have a shitty team, or you will play yourself out of the opportunity in following years.


It just seems like if Cassel can go 8-8 with a 'shitty team' then drafting a QB might not be the biggest priority...You can't have it both ways.

[Brock]

Here's the case for it, 40 years of football futility.

[milkman]

I would think, going into the next draft with a new agreement in place with the union, which is certainly going to include a rookie pay scale, moving up into the top ten will become as problematic as moving down is now.

[Mecca]

Then with a good team is ceiling is 10-6 and first round playoff loss, is that what you want to aspire to be?

[the Talking Can]

It just seems like if Cassel can go 8-8 with a 'shitty team' then drafting a QB might not be the biggest priority...You can't have it both ways.

you're right, and you have it the dumb way


going 8-8, or even 10-6, have absolutely nothing to do with being a franchise QB capable of taking a team to a superbowl...


5 mins of watching the nfl would teach that to someone who followed the smart way....

[Ming the Merciless]

I would think, going into the next draft with a new agreement in place with the union, which is certainly going to include a rookie pay scale, moving up into the top ten will become as problematic as moving down is now.

This is an extremely valid point...

Here is what I think though...It is going to take Cassel playing very well for us to go 7-9 let alone 8-8.

If we win only 5-6 games we will be in the top 10. If we win 7 games we will be JUST shy of the top 10....

I think Cassel is playing for his life next season. If he fails, we will have our top 10 pick. If he succeeds, then we will be solid at QB.

Maybe I am too much of an optimist, but I am going to keep hope alive that Cassel either gets it together or we win less than 6-7 games next season.

[Ming the Merciless]

you're right, and you have it the dumb way


going 8-8, or even 10-6, have absolutely nothing to do with being a franchise QB capable of taking a team to a superbowl...


5 mins of watching the nfl would teach that to someone who followed the smart way....

You didnt really read what I said though, you took me out of context. I said 8-8 with a SHITTY team...If he could do it with a shitty team, couldnt he do better with a good one? 5 minutes of basic logic classes would probably help you not be such a fucking idiot.

[BossChief]

Once you get this team to the point where we are a .500 team, the opportunity to get a top flight qb out of the draft become slim and none.

We wont have a situation like the one that presents itself with Jimmy in a LONG time. Probably never.

[RustShack]

Waiting until your team is good then hoping you have a shot you can draft a QB who fits your team just magically falls sounds smart to me. I mean, why would you want to draft a talented QB to groom and build the team around? Putting the team together then drafting the QB and the rest of the team retires or leaves by the time the QB is ready sounds smart to me. I mean, its not like that position takes longer than any other position for them to reach their potential.

[Ming the Merciless]

Once you get this team to the point where we are a .500 team, the opportunity to get a top flight qb out of the draft become slim and none.

We wont have a situation like the one that presents itself with Jimmy in a LONG time. Probably never.

Bosschief has boiled this down the argument to the main point.

Either your opinion is that cassel has a chance (even a slim one) to be 'our guy' at QB for the future, or you do not.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if he takes this pile of shit team to 8-8 this season, then I believe he has a chance to be the QB of our future.

Obiously this is an opinion...but stating that he does not have a chance to be that guy or stating that Clausen or anyone else will 100% be that guy is also an opinion.

(Edit: and if he does not take the team to 8-8 then we will have our top 10 pick or very close to it)

[milkman]

I guess this boils down the argument to the main point.

Either your opinion is that cassel has a chance (even a slim one) to be 'our guy' at QB for the future, or you do not.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if he takes this pile of shit team to 8-8 this season, then I believe he has a chance to be the QB of our future.

Obiously this is an opinion...but stating that he does not have a chance to be that guy or stating that Clausen or anyone else will 100% be that guy is also an opinion.

(Edit: and if he does not take the team to 8-8 then we will have our top 10 pick or very close to it)

I don't remember the teams exactly that are on our schedule in '10, but I do remember it was a pretty easy schedule on paper.

Even if Cassel is who many of us think he is, it is entirely possible for this team to win 7 or 8 games, and it would not be becuase he did anything to lead this pile of shit team.

It would simply be this pile of shit team winning games against other teams in the same pile of shit.

[Ming the Merciless]

I don't remember the teams exactly that are on our schedule in '10, but I do remember it was a pretty easy schedule on paper.

Even if Cassel is who many of us think he is, it is entirely possible for this team to win 7 or 8 games, and it would not be becuase he did anything to lead this pile of shit team.

It would simply be this pile of shit team winning games against other teams in the same pile of shit.

I guess I just disagree with this idea. The notion of us (or any team) winning 8 games in the NFL with a piece of shit team AND a piece of shit QB to me seems unlikely.

[milkman]

Looking at the Chiefs opponents next year, I can see possible wins against the Raiders, Donkeys, Rams, Browns, 9ers, Bills and Cards, even with a crappy QB.

[BossChief]

I guess I just disagree with this idea. The notion of us (or any team) winning 8 games in the NFL with a piece of shit team AND a piece of shit QB to me seems unlikely.

did you just start watching the Chiefs last year?

[BossChief]

we won 13 games with Bono

[Coogs]

:clap::clap::clap:

Great thread.

We are picking in the top 5 again for the 3rd time in 3 years because we do have a lot of holes. Hopefully the last two drafts start plugging a few of those holes, and in some cases it appears that is so. However, if Clausen is the pick, I can not even fathom that some folks would second guess that call. If he fails, it winds up being no worse than a Ryan Sims type pick. You have to gamble on these picks once in a while. And by that I don't mean every 27 years.

[Coogs]

Looking at the Chiefs opponents next year, I can see possible wins against the Raiders, Donkeys, Rams, Browns, 9ers, Bills and Cards, even with a crappy QB.

And I am all for letting Cassel QB next year and letting Clausen sit. Even if we win said games with Cassel you have the future grooming in the mean time. When the Pacters selected Rodgers, they had a lot of holes to fill to complete their last run with Favre. And Favre was pissed when they didn't fill one of those holes with that pick. Well guess what. They filled the holes anyway, and now have one of the best up and comming QB's in the league.

It's our turn. Some of us old timers have waited far too long for this.

[Mr. Laz]

we won 13 games with Bono
yea ... but with bono we had a solid team just about everywhere BUT quarterback.

[notorious]

It just seems like if Cassel can go 8-8 with a 'shitty team' then drafting a QB might not be the biggest priority...You can't have it both ways.

Duh read my post again. The Chiefs "are" going to get some talent around Cassel, then win 8 games.

Here is the simple version:

Cassel will be a .500 +/- 2 games QB after he gets some talent, then we will get a shitty draft pick unworthy of an elite talent QB, thus getting us stuck in mediocre purgatory.


****.

[Nightfyre]

Bosschief has boiled this down the argument to the main point.

Either your opinion is that cassel has a chance (even a slim one) to be 'our guy' at QB for the future, or you do not.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if he takes this pile of shit team to 8-8 this season, then I believe he has a chance to be the QB of our future.

Obiously this is an opinion...but stating that he does not have a chance to be that guy or stating that Clausen or anyone else will 100% be that guy is also an opinion.

(Edit: and if he does not take the team to 8-8 then we will have our top 10 pick or very close to it)

I just have to disagree. How can a 28 year-old QB purport to have a future in this league? Figure he's 2-3 years out mechanics wise from being a franchise level QB. That puts him at 30-31. Why waste those years on someone who should retire as he's ready. Unless he pulls Favre-ian longvity, he isn't worth developing, IMO. He doesn't have upside and he doesn't have enough years left.

[Coogs]

I just have to disagree. How can a 28 year-old QB purport to have a future in this league? Figure he's 2-3 years out mechanics wise from being a franchise level QB. That puts him at 30-31. Why waste those years on someone who should retire as he's ready. Unless he pulls Favre-ian longvity, he isn't worth developing, IMO. He doesn't have upside and he doesn't have enough years left.

Well said. There are two years of tape on Cassel out there now. And with JC running the way he ran last year, and Cassel having his numbers go backwards during that time, you almost have to bet the opposing teams are going to dare Cassel to beat them next year.

Personally from everything we have seen, I don't think Cassel has the poise or the tools to do that.

[Ming the Merciless]

Duh read my post again. The Chiefs "are" going to get some talent around Cassel, then win 8 games.

Here is the simple version:

Cassel will be a .500 +/- 2 games QB after he gets some talent, then we will get a shitty draft pick unworthy of an elite talent QB, thus getting us stuck in mediocre purgatory.


****.

Ready MY post again...

If he is .500 minus 2 (your words) or even 1, we will have a great draft pick....Thanks for making my point.

Take a look at the teams with 6 wins for yourself to see what order they are drafting in....

[Ming the Merciless]

Figure he's 2-3 years out mechanics wise from being a franchise level QB. That puts him at 30-31. Why waste those years on someone who should retire as he's ready. Unless he pulls Favre-ian longvity, he isn't worth developing, IMO. He doesn't have upside and he doesn't have enough years left.

This is pretty speculative, and your opinion...All I can say is I hope you're wrong. You may be right though....But if we do not draft a QB this season, and you ARE right...Then we will have a good enough draft pick next year to take a QB...so I think the Chiefs will take a chance one more year on him and not draft a QB.

[milkman]

Ready MY post again...

If he is .500 minus 2 (your words) or even 1, we will have a great draft pick....Thanks for making my point.

Take a look at the teams with 6 wins for yourself to see what order they are drafting in....

7 wins gets you into the area of 12th-13th pick.

Very possibly out of range for a top tier QB prospect.

[Ming the Merciless]

7 wins gets you into the area of 12th-13th pick.

Very possibly out of range for a top tier QB prospect.

Agreed. This would be worst case scenario IMO, and perhaps we would have to trade up in that case...Which may be difficult. But any other case besides exactly 7 wins is ok, which is why I think the Chiefs will roll the dice one more year.

[DeezNutz]

yea ... but with bono we had a solid team just about everywhere BUT quarterback.

Which is exactly what we're currently trying to build.

[BossChief]

its not worst case, its reality. It would be hard to win less than 7 games next year.

[Ming the Merciless]

its not worst case, its reality. It would be hard to win less than 7 games next year.

What? So let me get this straight...If we win 8 games next season you think that would be a failure for Pioli and Cassel?

[DeezNutz]

No way. If we're at least 7-9 next year, it definitely means Cassel is a high-quality QB who has the capability of leading us to a SB victory.

[BossChief]

yea ... but with bono we had a solid team just about everywhere BUT quarterback.exactly, thanks.

Which is exactly what we're currently trying go build.

Im not sure what Laz was arguing. His post is EXACTLY why we should take Clausen NOW, while we still have a chance at a player of his quality at the most important position in pro sports. Yet, I think he was trying to argue against that point somehow...???

[Ming the Merciless]

No way. If we're at least 7-9 next year, it definitely means Cassel is a high-quality QB who has the capability of leading us to a SB victory.

Your teachers in special ed. must be proud...We have already established 7 wins is the worst case scenario...

Are you just a troll or are you really THAT fucking incompetent?

:doh!:

[DeezNutz]

Your teachers in special ed. must be proud...We have already established 7 wins is the worst case scenario...

Are you just a troll or are you really THAT ****ing incompetent?

:doh!:

LMAO. LMAO. LMAO.

Are you trying to imply that if we win at least 7 games next year Cassel will be a failure?!!!?

[old_geezer]

I've had this feeling for quite a while now - I believe there is a very good chance we take Clausen with our 1st round draft choice. If (and I do mean if) Pioli and the rest of the Chief's braintrust actually believe Clausen to be a franchise QB, there is no excuse not to draft him. "We didn't draft a franchise QB because we've already got Cassell" sounds like something Groucho Marx would say; not an actual NFL general manager.

[Ming the Merciless]

LMAO. LMAO. LMAO.

Are you trying to imply that if we win at least 7 games next year Cassel will be a failure?!!!?

You REALLY need to learn to read...

What I am trying to say is that my opinion of Cassel is that he is an unknown. I haven't given up on him yet.....

It isn't that I think 7 wins would be a failure for him, it is that 7 wins may or may not answer any questions...and 7 wins puts us JUST out of reach (maybe) of a top-tier QB......So if after 7 wins, we find ourselves wanting a QB...we may have to trade up or take a second tier QB....

THAT is why it is worst case scenario....

[BossChief]

What? So let me get this straight...If we win 8 games next season you think that would be a failure for Pioli and Cassel?

no, it will mean that our hope of getting a premier player at the most important position in pro sports is basically gone. for good. We will be forced to pick through discarded free agents, fourth and fifth options of a future qb class, trading a shit-ton to move up to have the opportunity again that we have on the 22nd, or fighting to make it work with a lesser talent at the position.

I am sick of making due with a team that doesn't value the most important position in pro sports. Its embarrassing. You would hope we would have learned by now.

You should be willing to spend whatever it takes to get your quarterback, not try to eternally get one "on the cheap"

I fucking hate everything the Cassel trade represented!

[notorious]

Agreed. This would be worst case scenario IMO, and perhaps we would have to trade up in that case...Which may be difficult. But any other case besides exactly 7 wins is ok, which is why I think the Chiefs will roll the dice one more year.

What? You disagree with me then agree with the same point from someone else?


WTF? ROFL

It's all good.

[Ming the Merciless]

no, it will mean that our hope of getting a premier player at the most important position in pro sports is basically gone. for good.

<SNIP>


I ****ing hate everything the Cassel trade represented!

Well I guess If I felt that way about Cassel I would agree with you...I haven't totally given up on him yet. I mean if you have given up on him, then your position is perfectly understandable.

[DeezNutz]

You REALLY need to learn to read...

What I am trying to say is that my opinion of Cassel is that he is an unknown. I haven't given up on him yet.....

It isn't that I think 7 wins would be a failure for him, it is that 7 wins may or may not answer any questions...and 7 wins puts us JUST out of reach (maybe) of a top-tier QB......So if after 7 wins, we find ourselves wanting a QB...we may have to trade up or take a second tier QB....

THAT is why it is worst case scenario....

Thank you for regurgitating a view that has been expressed ad nauseum on this site.

I've been waiting for the last 4 years for this to be clarified.

[Ming the Merciless]

What? You disagree with me then agree with the same point from someone else?


WTF? ROFL

It's all good.

No, I still disagree with you. You said that if the Chiefs finish with 6 or 7 wins they would not end up with a top tier QB. I disagree with this 100%.

With 6 wins they would be solidly in the top 10 in the draft

7 is the worst case but puts them just out of the top 10 to where they would have to trade.

See where you are wrong yet?

[Ming the Merciless]

Thank you for regurgitating a view that has been expressed ad nauseum on this site.

I've been waiting for the last 4 years for this to be clarified.

Please show me a post from 4 years ago that talks about whether or not Cassel is the future of the team...

Are you disabled?

[milkman]

What? You disagree with me then agree with the same point from someone else?


WTF? ROFL

It's all good.

I don't think he understood that you were talking about 7 wins.

I simply clarified it for you, and he agreed with you, though he didn't realie it.

[BossChief]

LMAO. LMAO. LMAO.

Are you trying to imply that if we win at least 7 games next year Cassel will be a failure?!!!?
you should stop. If you continue with this barrage of humor I will be forced to destroy my laptop with "flying drank"
Well I guess If I felt that way about Cassel I would agree with you...I haven't totally given up on him yet. I mean if you have given up on him, then your position is perfectly understandable.

I dont care about everything else that happened that spelled doom for a developing qb with MC last year, all you need to see is a hail mary from the 35 year line that hits the fucking crossbar to know that isnt a guy that has "it"

[RustShack]

If your goal is to just reach the playoffs then Cassel is your man. If your goal is to win a championship, Clausen is your man.

[BossChief]

Please show me a post from 4 years ago that talks about whether or not Cassel is the future of the team...

Are you disabled?

you should really think before you type

[milkman]

No, I still disagree with you. You said that if the Chiefs finish with 6 or 7 wins they would not end up with a top tier QB. I disagree with this 100%.

With 6 wins they would be solidly in the top 10 in the draft

7 is the worst case but puts them just out of the top 10 to where they would have to trade.

See where you are wrong yet?

When he said .500+/-2 games, he was talking 7 to 9 wins.

[Ming the Merciless]

I dont care about everything else that happened that spelled doom for a developing qb with MC last year, all you need to see is a hail mary from the 35 year line that hits the ****ing crossbar to know that isnt a guy that has "it"


Well, I do care about 'everything else' because the whole team was shit for the most part until the last few meaningless games.

But on a side note, you don't happen to have a link to that Matt Cassel hail mary like a youtube link do you? I wouldnt mind taking a look at that because I don't remember it.

[Ming the Merciless]

When he said .500+/-2 games, he was talking 7 to 9 wins.

thats +/- 1 game...Not 2

8 wins -1 = 7

8 wins -2 = 6

-----

8 wins + 1 = 9

8 wins +2 = 10

Maybe you guys have the same special ed. teacher?

[DeezNutz]

Please show me a post from 4 years ago that talks about whether or not Cassel is the future of the team...

Are you disabled?

Oh, my mistake.

People just now started talking about the importance of the QB position because of the ineptitude of Brodie Tyler Cassel.

Patience, drafting, OT!!!!, risk, reward...all entirely new stuff.

[notorious]

I don't think he understood that you were talking about 7 wins.

I simply clarified it for you, and he agreed with you, though he didn't realie it.

Ya, it is pretty funny. Thanks for getting our point across :)

[BossChief]

Im sure someone can post the gif of it. It has been going around.

Im not surprised you dont remember it.

[notorious]

See where you are wrong yet?

I don't see where I am wrong, but I see where we disagree.

[notorious]

Maybe you guys have the same special ed. teacher?

You should know since you were the teacher's pet.


Besides, 6 wins could get you top 6-7 some years and out of the top 10 in others. Either way, you aren't going to get first shot.

[Ming the Merciless]

Oh, my mistake.

People just now started talking about the importance of the QB position because of the ineptitude of Brodie Tyler Cassel.

Patience, drafting, OT!!!!, risk, reward...all entirely new stuff.

As much as I enjoy arguing with you I think that we have pretty much found our core disagreement.

You have completely given up on Matt Cassel, I haven't YET.

I am hoping like hell you are wrong...but this can't be resolved except for one place...On the field.

[notorious]

but this can't be resolved except for one place...On the field.

It always comes down to this.



I think Cassel can be the QB that wins some games, but I don't think he can be a QB that wins THE game.


Everything is a waste unless we have the man that can win it all.

[BossChief]

I went and found it. Enjoy your franchise quarterback at his finest moment to date.


If only crossbars had hands.

http://i40.tinypic.com/6dycls.gif

[RustShack]

Lets see.. the QB who is going to be a first round draft pick or the QB that barely made it through training camp two years ago with the Patriots who didn't even have a good backup.. hmmmm I guess I last Patriot QB was pretty good, well he sucked but Huard was still better than Cassel. Didn't get sacked as much behind a worse line, and he was less mobile.

[Ming the Merciless]

It always comes down to this.

I think Cassel can be the QB that wins some games, but I don't think he can be a QB that wins THE game.

Everything is a waste unless we have the man that can win it all.

I guess the problem then becomes:

1) If you aren't sure if Cassel is the man, do you give him one more chance?

2) Do you draft Clausen who has questionable arm strength according to some..but is accurate etc...or do you wait one more season...

3) Do you risk going one more season with Cassel to see if maybe he is the man?

I think the answer is yes, wait, yes take that risk. As I said I am not sure either (that Cassel has the skills to go all the way). But I don't think you pull the trigger now on Clausen, personally.

My pappy has a saying that I really like..'Give him enough rope to hang himself."

I think most people would agree that theyre not 100% sure that Cassel is or is not the man...even you said you're not sure. If he isn't 'the man' then I think we will be in fine shape next season to draft someone even better than Clausen...If he is the man, then we won't have needed to take a risk on Clausen..we will have used the pick to make the whole team better.

Just my opnion

[Ming the Merciless]

I went and found it. Enjoy your franchise quarterback at his finest moment to date.

Thanks for getting that for me...

Personally I don't think that is a reason to give up on the guy...But that's just me..

[milkman]

I guess the problem then becomes:

1) If you aren't sure if Cassel is the man, do you give him one more chance?

2) Do you draft Clausen who has questionable arm strength according to some..but is accurate etc...or do you wait one more season...

3) Do you risk going one more season with Cassel to see if maybe he is the man?

I think the answer is yes, wait, yes take that risk. As I said I am not sure either (that Cassel has the skills to go all the way). But I don't think you pull the trigger now on Clausen, personally.

My pappy has a saying that I really like..'Give him enough rope to hang himself."

I think most people would agree that theyre not 100% sure that Cassel is or is not the man...even you said you're not sure. If he isn't 'the man' then I think we will be in fine shape next season to draft someone even better than Clausen...If he is the man, then we won't have needed to take a risk on Clausen..we will have used the pick to make the whole team better.

Just my opnion

What?

Now you think you're Brett Maverick?

[RustShack]

Lets compare Thigpen and Cassel.

Cassel-
15 Starts
2,924 Yards
16 TD
16 INT
55%
69.9 rating
42 sacks

Thigpen-
11 Starts
2,608 yards
18 TD's
12 INT's
54.8%
76 rating
26 sacks

[notorious]

I guess the problem then becomes:

1) If you aren't sure if Cassel is the man, do you give him one more chance?

2) Do you draft Clausen who has questionable arm strength according to some..but is accurate etc...or do you wait one more season...

3) Do you risk going one more season with Cassel to see if maybe he is the man?

I think the answer is yes, wait, yes take that risk. As I said I am not sure either (that Cassel has the skills to go all the way). But I don't think you pull the trigger now on Clausen, personally.

My pappy has a saying that I really like..'Give him enough rope to hang himself."

I think most people would agree that theyre not 100% sure that Cassel is or is not the man...even you said you're not sure. If he isn't 'the man' then I think we will be in fine shape next season to draft someone even better than Clausen...If he is the man, then we won't have needed to take a risk on Clausen..we will have used the pick to make the whole team better.

Just my opnion


That's what I am afraid of. We are playing a bad schedule next year, and there will be a chance that we win 6-7 games (and yes, I will greatly enjoy winning). That puts us out of the lottery hunt for a stud QB.

I will admit, Clausen scares me, but we have to take our shots. If we don't we will spin our wheels ala the Marty era.

[milkman]

Thanks for getting that for me...

Personally I don't think that is a reason to give up on the guy...But that's just me..

The thing is, it illustrates his lack of arm strength.

It illustrates how it changed the way the team approached that situation due to that lack of arm strength.

[Ming the Merciless]

Lets see.. the QB who is going to be a first round draft pick or the QB that barely made it through training camp two years ago with the Patriots who didn't even have a good backup..

There are other options....You are acting like we would be stuck with Cassel forever if he doesn't work out this year. You are also acting like Clausen is a guaranteed franchise QB.

What I am saying is that if you are right, and Matt Cassel sucks a big dick, then we will finish low enough to have a high draft pick next season.

Unless the FO thinks that Clausen is the messiah, there's pretty much no way they are going to draft him when the jury is still out.

[notorious]

Unless the FO thinks that Clausen is the messiah, there's pretty much no way they are going to draft him when the jury is still out.


I would like them to draft one anyway. That way you have a young gun riding his ass, and if Cassel falters, you have your building block in place.

If Cassel excells, then you are in a very good situation.

[Ming the Merciless]

That's what I am afraid of. We are playing a bad schedule next year, and there will be a chance that we win 6-7 games (and yes, I will greatly enjoy winning). That puts us out of the lottery hunt for a stud QB.

I will admit, Clausen scares me, but we have to take our shots. If we don't we will spin our wheels ala the Marty era.

I disagree with your opinion that 6 wins will put us out of the hunt for a top QB.

I also disagree that we have to take the shot now, for Clausen.

I'm ok with rolling with Cassel and having him playing for his life. I think he will either:

1) Fail miserably, giving us a good draft pick

2) Succeed, letting us focus our draft picks on other areas.

I havent given up on him yet.

[DeezNutz]

We're getting True Fan readings, Venkman.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254/evasconcellos/Equip_PKEScan.jpg

[Ming the Merciless]

I would like them to draft one anyway. That way you have a young gun riding his ass, and if Cassel falters, you have your building block in place.

If Cassel excells, then you are in a very good situation.

That is one of the better arguments I can think of to draft a top QB..The question would then become:

Is clausen the right 'young gun' or building block of the future or can we afford to wait till the next crop in the next draft.

[sedated]

If If your goal is to win a championship, Clausen is your man.

L

O

L

[BossChief]

That is one of the better arguments I can think of to draft a top QB..The question would then become:

Is clausen the right 'young gun' or building block of the future or can we afford to wait till the next crop in the next draft.

I bet this was your response EVERY YEAR

[Ming the Merciless]

Why can't more avatars be like Sedated's?

[Ming the Merciless]

I bet this was your response EVERY YEAR

nah

It is this year though.

[DeezNutz]

Clausen looks ok, but I'd prefer to wait for more of a sure thing.

[BossChief]

who here wouldnt draft Phillip Rivers at 5?

[milkman]

That is one of the better arguments I can think of to draft a top QB..The question would then become:

Is clausen the right 'young gun' or building block of the future or can we afford to wait till the next crop in the next draft.

I am not sold on Clausen myself.

However the one argument presented that gives me pause to think is that he is the most NFL ready QB that already is inured to Weis system.

[Ming the Merciless]

Clausen looks ok, but I'd prefer to wait for more of a sure thing.

Holy fuck I can't believe I am about to say this:

I agree with Deeznutz

:stupid:

[notorious]

who here wouldnt draft Phillip Rivers at 5?

I would almost give up our firstborn for Rivers even though I despise the rainbow balls he throws that always finds the open receiver.

[BossChief]

Holy fuck I can't believe I am about to say this:

I agree with Deeznutz

:stupid:

he was clowning you

[Ming the Merciless]

who here wouldnt draft Phillip Rivers at 5?

I think many here would if we could see into the future and know that Clausen would be as good as Rivers with certainty.

[BossChief]

and all people like you

[DeezNutz]

Holy **** I can't believe I am about to say this:

I agree with Deeznutz

:stupid:

Sometimes, it's easier than others...

Build the lines! We need to win in the trenches. Without more attention to the o-line it wouldn't matter if we had P. Manning!

[BossChief]

I think many here would if we could see into the future and know that Clausen would be as good as Rivers with certainty.

LOL

perfect

[Ming the Merciless]

he was clowning you

no u

[milkman]

he was clowning you

I could be wrong, but I don't believe he was.

I think DN and I are both on the same page.

Not really sold on Clausen, but not really comfortable with the idea of waiting another year in hopes we have a shot at one of the top QBs next year.

[BossChief]

this guy is sac

Im like 75% sure of it

[Ming the Merciless]

Sometimes, it's easier than others...

Build the lines! We need to win in the trenches. Without more attention to the o-line it wouldn't matter if we had P. Manning!

Clausen is the next Peyton Manning? No one told me THAT. Ok I am on board then, draft him at #5.

[notorious]

Sometimes, it's easier than others...

Build the lines! We need to win in the trenches. Without more attention to the o-line it wouldn't matter if we had P. Manning!

Bu, bu, bu, bu but Baltimore won a Superbowl back in 1834! Defense wins champion-chips! We can put a time-management QB back there and win eleventybillion SBs!#!!

[Ming the Merciless]

Bu, bu, bu, bu but Baltimore won a Superbowl back in 1834! Defense wins champion-chips! We can put a time-management QB back there and win eleventybillion SBs!#!!

Pitssburg has won a couple SB's with a retard at the helm! Lets get a big retarded QB with a thyroid problem and tard-strength.

If we have a solid defense and lines, thats all we need TBH.

[DeezNutz]

I could be wrong, but I don't believe he was.

I think DN and I are both on the same page.

Not really sold on Clausen, but not really comfortable with the idea of waiting another year in hopes we have a shot at one of the top QBs next year.

In all seriousness...

My motto has been: A Clausen in the hand is worth more than a Gabbert in the bush.

Plus we need to consider the elite WR talent in next year's draft.

[Ming the Merciless]

In all seriousness...

My motto has been: A Clausen in the hand is worth more than a Gabbert in the bush.


Thats my new sig, thanks.

[RustShack]

lol

We are going to be waiting forever if we pass on Clausen. There wont be any QB more sure for this team. When is the last time a QB this talented ever already has three years of experience in a teams system? Especially since more and more teams are running the spread.. its going to get harder and harder to find a franchise QB. Spread QB's are projects.

[BossChief]

Clausens deep passes on his proday looked to have a lot more zip that during games. His workout emphasized the deep pass because it showed how much stringer he is with a mostly healed toe. When asked about it he said he is able to shift his weight into the passes more. It makes a big difference.

Clausen is far from a sure thing, but with his history with our current staff and his development in this system and experience in it, he is as close to a sure things as you can get IMHO.

TBH its good that his leadership is at question, it will likely make that an area he tries to improve at as a pro. He has the work ethic of a very very good pro and his production showed that.

[Ming the Merciless]

Clausen is far from a sure thing


Agreed

[milkman]

When it comes to the draft, there is no such thing as a sure thing.

[Coogs]

I almost can't wait until next year when we have another noob/troll come in and tell us all what is right or wrong with the Chiefs. :rolleyes:

[DeezNutz]

When it comes to the draft, there is no such thing as a sure thing.

Unless we're talking about OTs, of course.

[notorious]

Unless we're talking about OTs, of course.

ROFL

[notorious]

When it comes to the draft, there is no such thing as a sure thing.

I disagree.



A Chiefsplanet meltdown on draft day is a "Sure Thing".

[Coogs]

Unless we're talking about OTs, of course.

Next years QB's are all sure things. Never mind all the guru's outside of McShay are saying Clausen has all the tools to be a great QB. Only thing that holds Clausen back is some drunk Irish fan smacked him up side the head.

[BossChief]

Unless we're talking about OTs, of course.

Ryan Simms + John Tait > Phillip Rivers

dumass

[RustShack]

The "sure thing" every year is the player that always busts.

[Ming the Merciless]

A Chiefsplanet meltdown on draft day is a "Sure Thing".

It will be amazing to witness...Will be my 1st one.

[RustShack]

And people like to talk about QB's busting so much. How about they factor out all the gimmick system QB's? Oh wait, you can't do that because then its as safe as any other position when its a QB from a pro style offense.

[Ming the Merciless]

And people like to talk about QB's busting so much. How about they factor out all the gimmick system QB's? Oh wait, you can't do that because then its as safe as any other position when its a QB from a pro style offense.

Wouldn't be too hard to do position by position for the top 5 in the last 10 drafts....

Would be interesting too.

[milkman]

And people like to talk about QB's busting so much. How about they factor out all the gimmick system QB's? Oh wait, you can't do that because then its as safe as any other position when its a QB from a pro style offense.

It would have to be researched, but I hardly think that's true.

[Ming the Merciless]

And people like to talk about QB's busting so much. How about they factor out all the gimmick system QB's? Oh wait, you can't do that because then its as safe as any other position when its a QB from a pro style offense.

I'm bored ,here ya go:

(Comments not mine)



2009

1. Detroit - Matthew Stafford, QB Georgia
2. St. Louis - Jason Smith, OT Baylor
3. Kansas City Tyson Jackson, DE LSU
4. Seattle Aaron Curry, LB Wake Forest
5. New York Jets (from Cleveland) - Mark Sanchez, QB USC
6. Cincinnati - Andre Smith, OT Alabama
7. Oakland - Darius Heyward-Bey, WR Maryland
8. Jacksonville - Eugene Monroe, OT Virginia
9. Green Bay - B.J. Raji, DT Boston College
10. San Francisco - Michael Crabtree, WR Texas Tech

2008

1. Miami - Jake Long, OT Michigan
2. St. Louis - Chris Long, DE Virginia
3. Atlanta - Matt Ryan, QB Boston College
4. Oakland - Darren McFadden, RB Arkansas
5. Kansas City - Glen Dorsey, DT LSU
6. NY Jets - Vernon Gholston, DE Ohio State
7. New Orleans (From 49ers through Patriots)- Sedrick Ellis, DT USC
8. Jacksonville (From Ravens)- Derrick Harvey, DE Florida
9. Cincinnati - Keith Rivers, LB USC
10. New England (From Saints)- Jerod Mayo, LB Tennessee

2007

1. Oakland - JaMarcus Russell, QB LSU
Not a big surprise here, although I still believe the safer pick would have been Calvin Johnson.

2. Detroit - Calvin Johnson, WR Georgia Tech
So the Lions go with their fourth top-ten receiver in five years. Expect Matt Millen to be the butt of a lot of jokes, because of this pick, but this time he got it right. Roy Williams and Johnson at wideout? Yikes!!

3. Cleveland- Joe Thomas, OT Wisconsin
I expected Brady Quinn to go here, but this is probably the smart move. Thomas should immediately shore up a long-time problem area for the Browns.

4. Tampa Bay - Gaines Adams, DE Clemson
As we expected, Adams would be the pick if Johnson were off the board. All the Bucs current pass rushers are getting long in the tooth, so this pick makes a lot of sense.

5. Arizona - Levi Brown, OT Penn State
This is a little early for Brown in my opinion, but it's obviously a need pick. Look for Brown to play on the right side to protect the blind side of the left-handed Matt Leinart.

6. Washington - LaRon Landry, S LSU
The Redskins now have an incredible tandem at safety with Sean Taylor already on board. In fact, bringing in the speedy Landry probably makes Taylor even better as an enforcer-type defensive back. Now the Redskins are off the clock until Sunday.

7. Minnesota - Adrian Peterson, RB Oklahoma
The Vikings made the right move in passing on Brady Quinn. They invested a lot in Tavaris Jackson last year, and it's far too early to give up on him. This move also means the Vikings subscribe to the recent trend of featuring two running backs. Combined with incumbent Chester Taylor, the Vikings now have a nice one-two punch in the backfield.

8. Atlanta (from Houston) - Jamaal Anderson, DE Arkansas
I can't argue a whole lot with this selection, but I think DT Amobi Okoye would have been a better value for the Falcons at this point.

9. Miami - Ted Ginn Jr., WR Ohio State
With Brady Quinn, Amobi Okoye, and Leon Hall still on the board, this is a very surprising pick. Ginn is an explosive player -- and I think maybe the Dolphins were influenced by the success of Devin Hester in 2006 as a return man -- but he's a reach in the top ten. Now the question is, how far will Brady Quinn fall?

10. Houston (from Atlanta) - Omobi Okoye, DT Louisville
Great addition by the Texans! Okoye has the potential to draw double teams and pull attention away from last year's no. 1 overall pick Mario Williams.


2006

1. Houston - Mario Williams, DE North Carolina State
2. New Orleans - Reggie Bush, RB USC
3. Tennessee - Vince Young, QB Texas
4. N.Y. Jets - D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT Virginia
5. Green Bay - A.J. Hawk, LB Ohio State
6. San Francisco - Vernon Davis, TE Maryland
7. Oakland - Michael Huff, DB Texas
8. Buffalo - Donte Whitner, S Ohio State
9. Detroit - Ernie Sims, LB Florida State
10. Arizona - Matt Leinart, QB USC


2005

1. San Francisco 49ers - Alex Smith*, QB Utah

2. Miami Dolphins - Ronnie Brown, RB Auburn

3. Cleveland Browns - Braylon Edwards, WR Michigan

4. Chicago Bears - Cedric Benson, RB Texas

5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Carnell Williams, RB Auburn

6. Tennessee Titans - Adam Jones*, CB West Virginia

7. Minnesota Vikings (from Oakland) - Troy Williamson*, WR South Carolina

8. Arizona Cardinals - Antrel Rolle, CB Miami (Fla)

9. Washington Redskins - Carlos Rogers, CB Auburn

10. Detroit Lions - Mike Williams*, WR USC

2004

1. San Diego - Eli Manning, QB Mississippi
*Traded to the New York Giants for Philip Rivers and the Giants third-round pick this year and their first and fifth round picks in the 2005 draft.

2. Oakland - Robert Gallery, OT Iowa
3. Arizona - Larry Fitgerald, WR Pittsburgh
4. NY Giants - Philip Rivers, QB North Carolina State
Traded, along with their third-round pick this year and their first and fifth round picks in the 2005 draft, to San Diego for Eli Manning.

5. Washington - Sean Taylor, S Miami (Fla)
6. Cleveland ( from Detroit) - Kellen Winslow Jr, TE Miami (Fla)
7. Detroit (from Cleveland) - Roy Williams, WR Texas
8. Atlanta - DeAngelo Hall, CB Virginia Tech
9. Jacksonville - Reggie Williams, WR Washington
10. Houston - Dunta Robinson, CB South Carolina

2003

1 1 Cincinnati Carson Palmer QB USC
2 2 Detroit Charles Rogers WR Michigan State
3 3 Houston Andre Johnson WR Miami (Fla.)
4 4 NY Jets Dewayne Robertson DT Kentucky
5 5 Dallas Terence Newman CB Kansas State
6 6 New Orleans Johnathan Sullivan DT Georgia
7 7 Jacksonville Byron Leftwich QB Marshall
8 8 Carolina Jordan Gross OT Utah
9 9 Minnesota Kevin Williams DT Oklahoma State
10 10 Baltimore Terrell Suggs DE Arizona State


2002

1. Houston David Carr QB Fresno State
2. Carolina Julius Peppers DE North Carolina
3. Detroit Joey Harrington QB Oregon
4. Buffalo Mike Williams OT Texas
5. San Diego Quentin Jammer CB Texas
6. Kansas City (from Dallas) Ryan Sims DT North Carolina
7. Minnesota Bryant McKinnie OT Miami (Fla)
8. Dallas (from Kansas City) Roy Williams SS Oklahoma
9. Jacksonville John Henderson DT Tennessee
10. Cincinnati Levi Jones OT Arizona State


2001

1. Atlanta Falcons (from San Diego) - Michael Vick, QB Virginia Tech
2. Arizona Cardinals - Leonard Davis, OT Texas
3. Cleveland Browns - Gerard Warren, DT Florida
4. Cincinnati Bengals - Justin Smith, DE Missouri
5. San Diego Chargers (from Atlanta) - LaDainian Tomlinson, RB Texas Christian
6. New England Patriots - Richard Seymour, DT Georgia
7. San Francisco 49ers (from Seattle from Dallas) - Andre Carter, DE California
8. Chicago Bears - David Terrell, WR Michigan
9. Seattle (from San Francisco), Koren Robinson - WR North Carolina State
10. Green Bay (from Seattle) - Jamal Reynolds, DE Florida State

2000

1 (1) Cleveland Browns - Courtney Brown, DE Penn State
2 (2) Washington Redskins - LaVar Arrington, LB Penn State
3 (3) Washington Redskins - Chris Samuels, T Alabama
4 (4) Cincinnati Bengals - Peter Warrick, WR Florida State
5 (5) Baltimore Ravens - Jamal Lewis, RB Tennessee
6 (6) Philadelphia Eagles - Corey Simon, DT Florida State
7 (7) Arizona Cardinals - Thomas Jones, RB Virginia
8 (8) Pittsburgh Steelers - Plaxico Burress, WR Michigan State
9 (9) Chicago Bears - Brian Urlacher, LB New Mexico
10 (10) Baltimore Ravens - Travis Taylor, WR Florida

[milkman]

Just glancing quickly at that, one would have to call both Matt Leinart and Brady Quinn, pro style college QBs busts at this point.

[Ming the Merciless]

QB's:

(From Oldest to Newest)

Michael Vick
Detroit Joey Harrington QB Oregon
Houston David Carr QB Fresno State
Jacksonville Byron Leftwich QB Marshall
Cincinnati Carson Palmer QB USC
NY Giants - Philip Rivers, QB North Carolina State
San Diego - Eli Manning, QB Mississippi
San Francisco 49ers - Alex Smith, QB Utah
Arizona - Matt Leinart, QB USC
ennessee - Vince Young, QB Texas
Oakland - JaMarcus Russell, QB LSU
Atlanta - Matt Ryan, QB Boston College
New York Jets (from Cleveland) - Mark Sanchez, QB USC
Detroit - Matthew Stafford, QB Georgia


Ok that should be all the top 10 QB's in the last 10 drafts i think...

[Crush]

yea ... but with bono we had a solid team just about everywhere BUT quarterback.


... and that solid team was one and done in the playoffs, in thanks to no franchise QB.