Chiefs Ted Ginn on the block [Archive]

Sofa King

04-13-2010, 12:55 PM

how bad was that pick for miami....man

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The Franchise

04-13-2010, 12:57 PM

How many WR's are we planning on keeping solely for ST value?

Copper and Ginn would mean we'd only be dressing 3 legit WR's a game, or dressing 6 WR's and inactivating someone at another position that is probably needed more than another specialist.

Pass.

Ummmm.....I'd gladly get rid of Copper and put Ginn in his place.

Stevie.Wonder

04-13-2010, 12:57 PM

Hey Stevie... Did you know they are making porn for blind people now?

What? Where?

MoreLemonPledge

04-13-2010, 12:57 PM

It was either going to be him or Quinn

This. Their fanbase was shitting bricks when they didn't draft Quinn. At this point, I guess it doesn't really matter.

Skyy God

04-13-2010, 12:58 PM

Santonio Holmes = 5th rounder

Ginn = 7th rounder (or street pickup)

notorious

04-13-2010, 12:58 PM

OnTheWarpath15

04-13-2010, 12:59 PM

Ummmm.....I'd gladly get rid of Copper and put Ginn in his place.

They aren't getting rid of Copper.

The Franchise

04-13-2010, 12:59 PM

They aren't getting rid of Copper.

Unfortunately.....you speak the truth. :shake:

Bill Lundberg

04-13-2010, 01:00 PM

Ummmm.....I'd gladly get rid of Copper and put Ginn in his place.

Copper is great in kickoff and punt coverage.

ModSocks

04-13-2010, 01:00 PM

ModSocks

04-13-2010, 01:01 PM

If they had cameras on any of us last year, we would have made that look like a 5 year-old's birthday.

I was at a loss. I didn't even know who the fuck Tyson Jackson was until the days before the draft.

Sofa King

04-13-2010, 01:02 PM

I was at a loss. I didn't even know who the **** Tyson Jackson was until the days before the draft.

nobody did....

OnTheWarpath15

04-13-2010, 01:02 PM

:shake: They should have a cam on the Chiefs fans when they make there selection. that should be comical.

I'm sure there are people here that are going to the draft party at Arrowhead.

Someone needs to record it.

My guess is we take Bulaga, McClain or Dan Williams with Berry and Clausen on the board, and the fans cheer the selection.

Sure-Oz

04-13-2010, 01:03 PM

I'm sure there are people here that are going to the draft party at Arrowhead.

Someone needs to record it.

My guess is we take Bulaga, McClain or Dan Williams with Berry and Clausen on the board, and the fans cheer the selection.

ROFL

I thought it might be fun to go to, but there would be too many true fans

Sofa King

04-13-2010, 01:04 PM

If they had cameras on any of us last year, we would have made that look like a 5 year-old's birthday.

something like this?

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notorious

04-13-2010, 01:05 PM

ROFL

I thought it might be fun to go to, but there would be too many true fans

This.

They will announce Bulaga's name as the 5th pick, and the assembly would proceed to drop their pants and jerk each other off.

Mecca

04-13-2010, 01:07 PM

I'm sure there are people here that are going to the draft party at Arrowhead.

Someone needs to record it.

My guess is we take Bulaga, McClain or Dan Williams with Berry and Clausen on the board, and the fans cheer the selection.

That is probably what will happen and I'll consider it a sad day, our fans won't even show displeasure over shit picks.

patteeu

04-13-2010, 01:08 PM

Not unless Haley is sure he can make a receiver out of him.

Hammock Parties

04-13-2010, 01:09 PM

Ginn wouldn't be solely special teams...he did catch 800 yards worth of passes one year and had 38 catches last season.

Sure-Oz

04-13-2010, 01:10 PM

This.

They will announce Bulaga's name as the 5th pick, and the assembly would proceed to drop their pants and jerk each other off.

:LOL:

rambleonthruthefog

04-13-2010, 01:28 PM

if all we gotta give is a 7th or maybe a 6th, do it. were weak at WR, and were super weak in the return game. our supposed WR guru should be able to do something with him.

ClevelandBronco

04-13-2010, 01:29 PM

Santonio Holmes = 5th rounder

Ginn = 7th rounder (or street pickup)

Yeah. The Steelers just basically ****ed every team that's looking to move a wide receiver. Especially one that's really just ST.

MoreLemonPledge

04-13-2010, 01:30 PM

Maybe we can get Braylon Edwards, too. Between Bowe, Ginn, and Edwards, we may just have a chance to break that single season record for drops.

notorious

04-13-2010, 01:32 PM

Maybe we can get Braylon Edwards, too. Between Bowe, Ginn, and Edwards, we may just have a chance to break that single season record for drops.

It will be close. The X factor is the number of passes that will be droppable.

bowener

04-13-2010, 02:04 PM

Does the (cheap) Holmes trade drive Ginn's trade value down even more?

Red Beans

04-13-2010, 02:12 PM

nobody did....

And no one does to this day...

MoreLemonPledge

04-13-2010, 02:23 PM

Does the (cheap) Holmes trade drive Ginn's trade value down even more?

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PhillyChiefFan

04-13-2010, 02:24 PM

wasn't he the 9th overall pick?

I was with a Phins fan when he was picked...he cried a little.

Brady Quinn was still on the board.

Mr. Laz

04-13-2010, 02:27 PM

Don't we already have a Ted Ginn?

http://www.kcchiefs.com/team/roster/Quinten-Lawrence/405f8af8-e172-4b72-8622-723c5b8b79d7
no ... Quinten Lawrence can't even return kicks

Mile High Mania

04-13-2010, 02:28 PM

Ginn is a novelty option for offense, primarily a KR dude now ... with only 2 KR TDs, in the same game. And, he was the 9th overall pick... wow, I still recall the "Huh" moment that produced.

CoMoChief

04-13-2010, 02:31 PM

I'd trade 2 5's for him.......Charles can't return kicks if he's going to get most of the carries in this offense.

We need an explosive player/KR. Ginn Jr is that guy.

CoMoChief

04-13-2010, 02:32 PM

Ginn is a novelty option for offense, primarily a KR dude now ... with only 2 KR TDs, in the same game. And, he was the 9th overall pick... wow, I still recall the "Huh" moment that produced.

Brady Quinn can too. I remember seeing his face going "WOW"

And Miami fans were PISSED. Boo'd the hell out of Cam Cameron at the draft party.

The_Doctor10

04-13-2010, 02:36 PM

Brady Quinn can too. I remember seeing his face going "WOW"

And Miami fans were PISSED. Boo'd the hell out of Cam Cameron at the draft party.

I'd boo him just for having parents that are so unimaginative that they gave him the same name twice.

Hays

04-13-2010, 02:36 PM

I think he wants to be more than a special teamer but thats all he is
not worth a 4th round pick.

Give them a 6th round pick. Put a clause in there if he meets certain criteria they get a conditional 7th next year

ModSocks

04-13-2010, 02:38 PM

I'd trade 2 5's for him.......Charles can't return kicks if he's going to get most of the carries in this offense.

We need an explosive player/KR. Ginn Jr is that guy.

Fuck that. I'd trade our lowest pick and that's it. Or just wait for him to be cut. KR/PR are typically just a flash in the pan. They're hot one year and disappear the next. That's what makes a guy like Cribbs so special.

Not worth wasting a decent pick on IMO

DaneMcCloud

04-13-2010, 02:38 PM

I wouldn't trade more than a conditional 7th round 2011 pick.

Hell, Miami should give him to us for free due to the Nsukwe/Allemen trade last year.

They ass raped Pioli on that trade.
Posted via Mobile Device

Miles

04-13-2010, 02:40 PM

I have seen him look somewhat decent or even good at times but his hands are just terrible.

The Franchise

04-13-2010, 02:43 PM

Mr. Laz

04-13-2010, 02:45 PM

Fuck.....watch Pioli give up a 3rd round pick for him now.
Oh noes!!!!

The...
http://therealbarackobama.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/sky-is-falling.jpg

Ebolapox

04-13-2010, 02:47 PM

hmmm, I wonder what golden tate brings to the table that ted ginn jr doesn't. I'd rather have ginn for a sixth or seventh (conditional) than tate in the second.

CoMoChief

04-13-2010, 02:52 PM

**** that. I'd trade our lowest pick and that's it. Or just wait for him to be cut. KR/PR are typically just a flash in the pan. They're hot one year and disappear the next. That's what makes a guy like Cribbs so special.

Not worth wasting a decent pick on IMO

Ginn is NOT going to be cut.

TRR

04-13-2010, 02:53 PM

I would give up one of the 5th round picks for Ginn. He solves the kick/punt return issue that REALLY struggled last season when Charles was not involved (specifically punt) and could develop into a #3 or an eventual replacement for Chambers if the stars were to align.
.
Posted via Mobile Device

Farzin

04-13-2010, 02:57 PM

I think he would fit extremely nicely as a slot receiver/KR/PR. I imagine the Tuna would require a 4th or maybe even 2 of our 5ths. Would you pull the trigger? I'd gladly give up a 4th or two 5ths for Ted Ginn.

Ebolapox

04-13-2010, 03:02 PM

he has the speed and (hopefully hands) to be a playmaker. we need playmakers. if we can get him cheap, DO IT SCOTTIE!

DaneMcCloud

04-13-2010, 03:03 PM

A 4th and two fifths for a KR?

Lay off the pipe, Dude.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mr. Laz

04-13-2010, 03:05 PM

A 4th and two fifths for a KR?

Lay off the pipe, Dude.
Posted via Mobile Device
he said "OR"

OnTheWarpath15

04-13-2010, 03:08 PM

What the hell has Ted Ginn done in his three years in the league to deserve getting/giving ANY compensation?

5 TD's in 3 years and 10 fumbles.

Nevermind, he'll fit right in here.

Marco Polo

04-13-2010, 03:09 PM

If we don't have a solid KR from this draft, give him next year's sixth that can escalate to a fifth and be done with it.

Bill Lundberg

04-13-2010, 03:10 PM

Ted Ginn = Quentin Lawrence

Hammock Parties

04-13-2010, 03:13 PM

Ted Ginn = Quentin Lawrence

Lawrences wishes he had an 800-yard season in the NFL...

I think Ginn could help the return game for sure. He's worth a fifth.

Blindside58

04-13-2010, 03:13 PM

MoreLemonPledge

04-13-2010, 03:17 PM

In addition to Ted Ginn and Ronnie Brown, the Dolphins are reportedly considering trading QB Tyler Thigpen. The Miami Herald confirms that Ginn is on the block. Regarding Brown and Thigpen, the paper says only that "it has come to light" that the Dolphins are willing to consider dealing both players. Thigpen's availability could be a sign that Chad Pennington's surgically repaired shoulder is progressing well.
Source: Miami Herald

Hammock Parties

04-13-2010, 03:18 PM

Thiggy needs to go to Canada so he can actually play.

OnTheWarpath15

04-13-2010, 03:18 PM

http://www.nfl.com/players/tedginnjr./careerstats?id=GIN403290

Not horrible stats...it looked like he was steadily gettting better until last year when "the wildcat" formation took away alot of passing situations.

Those ARE horrible stats when you consider he was picked 9th overall, and has never been stuck behind a veteran/more talented WR.

You think KC's WR corp is bad? Miami's is WAY worse. Right now, Devone Bess is probably their best overall WR.

Devone Bess. Let that sink in.

OnTheWarpath15

04-13-2010, 03:19 PM

Sofa King

04-13-2010, 03:20 PM

Blindside58

04-13-2010, 03:20 PM

Those ARE horrible stats when you consider he was picked 9th overall, and has never been stuck behind a veteran/more talented WR.

You think KC's WR corp is bad? Miami's is WAY worse. Right now, Devone Bess is probably their best overall WR.

Devone Bess. Let that sink in.

Yeah, but was it his fault he was picked 9th overall?...I think he was probably an early 2nd round talent with tremendous upside taken too early.

notorious

04-13-2010, 03:20 PM

Get him now. Kid has a lot of speed, and I believe he could be similar to Deshaun Jackson from Philly.

Now if we could just get a QB that can throw the ball over 15 yards with the wind at his back.........

MoreLemonPledge

04-13-2010, 03:21 PM

Get him now. Kid has a lot of speed, and I believe he could be similar to McCoy from Philly.

Now if we could just get a QB that can throw the ball over 15 yards with the wind at his back.........

So you want him to play RB?

DaneMcCloud

04-13-2010, 03:21 PM

Either way Laz, that's FAR too much.

The market was set when an extremely productive, Super Bowl MVP went for a 2011 fifth rounder.

Ginn is worth a 2011 seventh, max.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ebolapox

04-13-2010, 03:21 PM

MoreLemonPledge

04-13-2010, 03:22 PM

The Franchise

04-13-2010, 03:23 PM

Get him now. Kid has a lot of speed, and I believe he could be similar to (searching) from Philly.

Now if we could just get a QB that can throw the ball over 15 yards with the wind at his back.........

WTF!? :facepalm:

You want to try Ginn out at RB now?

notorious

04-13-2010, 03:24 PM

WTF!? :facepalm:

You want to try Ginn out at RB now?

LOL NO.

Mixed up Mccoy with Jackson.

I am pretty stupid at times, but that would have been impressive even for me. ROFL

Hammock Parties

04-13-2010, 03:25 PM

Either way Laz, that's FAR too much.

The market was set when an extremely productive, Super Bowl MVP went for a 2011 fifth rounder.

Ginn is worth a 2011 seventh, max.
Posted via Mobile Device

You have to factor in the character issues....that was the whole reason Holmes went for a fifth, he's a douche.

Someone is going to give more than a 7th for a returner with elite speed.

Bill Lundberg

04-13-2010, 03:27 PM

Lawrences wishes he had an 800-yard season in the NFL...

Is 800 yards the bar? 800 yards is not that impressive for a #1 WR.

Hammock Parties

04-13-2010, 03:29 PM

Is 800 yards the bar? 800 yards is not that impressive for a #1 WR.

I'm just pointing out that he isn't a complete bum who can't play offense. He's not Quinten Lawrence.

Hell, he MIGHT be Dante Hall, who at this point in his career hadn't done much.

notorious

04-13-2010, 03:30 PM

I'm just pointing out that he isn't a complete bum who can't play offense. He's not Quinten Lawrence.

This. Get him in here.

Ginn in open space would be impressive. IF Cassel can get him the ball, and IF he catches it, he could break a play anywhere on the field.

OnTheWarpath15

04-13-2010, 03:31 PM

This. Get him in here.

Ginn in open space would be impressive. IF Cassel can get him the ball, and IF he catches it, he could break a play anywhere on the field.

Hard to believe that when he's done it seven times (5 rec. TD and 2 return TD) in three years - as a WR1.

notorious

04-13-2010, 03:33 PM

Hard to believe that when he's done it seven times (5 rec. TD and 2 return TD) in three years - as a WR1.

To be honest, it's just blind hope.

He has the tools, but I have yet to get a good opportunity to see how he seperates from defenders and how he would react with a good QB throwing to him.

The good QB thing is where we are severely fucked, though.

OnTheWarpath15

04-13-2010, 03:35 PM

To be honest, it's just blind hope really.

Thanks for your honesty.

notorious

04-13-2010, 03:36 PM

Thanks for your honesty.

I wish more people were honest here instead of talking out of their ass to back up bullshit claims.

Pushead2

04-13-2010, 03:37 PM

kid can't catch, please keep Parker Part II away. thanks..

OnTheWarpath15

04-13-2010, 03:37 PM

I wish more people were honest here instead of talking out of their ass to back up bullshit claims.

Why, I wonder who you could possibly be referring to?

LMAO

Hammock Parties

04-13-2010, 03:38 PM

kid can't catch, please keep Parker Part II away. thanks..

According to PFF he led the league in drops last year. :spock:

I'd still take a flyer on him strictly as a return man and a 3rd/4th WR.

Pushead2

04-13-2010, 03:43 PM

According to PFF he led the league in drops last year. :spock:

I'd still take a flyer on him strictly as a return man and a 3rd/4th WR.

he is dangerous on the PR/KR but it has to be at a real cheap cost....conditional 7th or 6th max next year.

notorious

04-13-2010, 03:44 PM

Why, I wonder who you could possibly be referring to?

LMAO

Someone fits the profile?

Does said person furiously masterbate to tape of Okung blasting Baylor and Iowa State defensive ends?

:)

OnTheWarpath15

04-13-2010, 03:48 PM

he is dangerous on the PR/KR but it has to be at a real cheap cost....conditional 7th or 6th max next year.

I don't understand this line of thinking.

How "dangerous" is a guy that has 2 return TD's in 3 years?

Christ, Josh Cribbs has had that many in ONE GAME.*

*Josh would like to again thank Todd Haley for continuing to kick to him, making that feat possible.

Hammock Parties

04-13-2010, 03:51 PM

I don't understand this line of thinking.

How "dangerous" is a guy that has 2 return TD's in 3 years?

Christ, Josh Cribbs has had that many in ONE GAME.*

*Josh would like to again thank Todd Haley for continuing to kick to him, making that feat possible.

I don't think anyone is under the impression that he is Josh Cribbs.

But he's not useless.

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=KR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

Pushead2

04-13-2010, 03:53 PM

OnTheWarpath15

04-13-2010, 03:54 PM

I don't think anyone is under the impression that he is Josh Cribbs.

But he's not useless.

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=KR&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

Useless? Nah.

Worth trade compensation? Absolutely not.

notorious

04-13-2010, 03:54 PM

dangerous as he COULD break the big one. Something KC hasn't had since Hall.

The only thing that breaks during Chief's games recently is my remote.

Pushead2

04-13-2010, 03:56 PM

The only thing that breaks during Chief's games recently is my remote.

I too fall into this category..

Gravedigger

04-13-2010, 03:56 PM

The good thing about that aweful trade by Pittsburgh, now the bar is set for trades on good recievers with a 5th round pick.

OnTheWarpath15

04-13-2010, 03:56 PM

The only thing that breaks during Chief's games recently is my remote.

LMAO

The Franchise

04-13-2010, 03:58 PM

The good thing about that aweful trade by Pittsburgh, now the bar is set for trades on good recievers with a 5th round pick.

Let me know when one comes available because so far there hasn't been one.

Hammock Parties

04-13-2010, 04:11 PM

Useless? Nah.

Worth trade compensation? Absolutely not.

A 5th is nothing...you wouldn't taken a proven, solid returner for a 5th? Where else are we getting one?

Hammock Parties

04-13-2010, 04:12 PM

The good thing about that aweful trade by Pittsburgh, now the bar is set for trades on douchebag recievers with a 5th round pick.

FYP

OnTheWarpath15

04-13-2010, 04:21 PM

A 5th is nothing...you wouldn't taken a proven, solid returner for a 5th? Where else are we getting one?

What exactly has he proven?

He's average. At best.

And with a shitton of holes in the starting 22, fucking KR is the LEAST of my concerns.

TRR

04-13-2010, 04:49 PM

What exactly has he proven?

He's average. At best.

And with a shitton of holes in the starting 22, fucking KR is the LEAST of my concerns.

You may be a bit more confident in KC's drafting. They couldn't even get their third round pick on the field last season, let alone a 5th round pick.

I don't think Ginn will ever amount to much as a WR, but I do think a change of scenery would do him well. He couldn't live up to the hype of the #9 pick...but he still could be a productive part-time receiver, and if anyone doesn't think he has the skills to be a top flight returner, needs to watch him a bit more.
Posted via Mobile Device

ModSocks

04-13-2010, 04:55 PM

What exactly has he proven?

He's average. At best.

And with a shitton of holes in the starting 22, ****ing KR is the LEAST of my concerns.

I dont know about LEAST...but i agree....I wouldn't give up a good pick to get him. Maybe like a 5th NEXT year or something.

SAUTO

04-13-2010, 05:23 PM

seems like a lot of crying over nothing in this thread

MoreLemonPledge

04-13-2010, 05:40 PM

seems like a lot of crying over nothing in this thread

Welcome to ChiefsPlanet.

DaneMcCloud

04-13-2010, 05:50 PM

According to PFF he led the league in drops last year. :spock:

I'd still take a flyer on him strictly as a return man and a 3rd/4th WR.

A "flyer"? What the Fuck?

You're willing to give up a high 3rd round pick in a draft that has 50 players with a first round grade for a never-was?

That's just plain fucking stupid.

Nick is rubbing off on you.

DaneMcCloud

04-13-2010, 05:52 PM

A 5th is nothing...you wouldn't taken a proven, solid returner for a 5th? Where else are we getting one?

Fuck NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Rain Man

04-13-2010, 06:26 PM

I didn't realize that Ginn was that bad a bust. When was he drafted? Isn't he just a third-year player or something?

DaneMcCloud

04-13-2010, 06:28 PM

I didn't realize that Ginn was that bad a bust. When was he drafted? Isn't he just a third-year player or something?

Ginn is basically Samie Parker with a few TD's on returns.

People that want to give up anything more than a 7th round pick simply aren't familiar with him or his production.

Which, of course, is typical around here.

Pushead2

04-13-2010, 06:31 PM

Ginn is basically Samie Parker with a few TD's on returns.

People that want to give up anything more than a 7th round pick simply aren't familiar with him or his production.

Which, of course, is typical around here.

agreed, that's why I called him Parker Part II & a 7th or 6th next year.

Micjones

04-13-2010, 06:33 PM

A #4 WR who can be an effective KR?

Eh...I might part with the 5c pick for him.

DaneMcCloud

04-13-2010, 06:36 PM

A #4 WR who can be an effective KR?

Eh...I might part with the 5c pick for him.

Brillitant, as usual.

:rolleyes:

Sure, it would be GREAT for the Chiefs to give up a 5th round pick in an extremely deep draft (in which talented players will certainly fall to the fifth) for a guy that'll give you 400 yards of offense and has maxed out.

JFC.

Micjones

04-13-2010, 06:48 PM

Brillitant, as usual.

:rolleyes:

Sure, it would be GREAT for the Chiefs to give up a 5th round pick in an extremely deep draft (in which talented players will certainly fall to the fifth) for a guy that'll give you 400 yards of offense and has maxed out.

JFC.

Say it with more disdain for ideas that differ from your own next time and it'll be even more convincing.

I suggested that I wouldn't mind parting with a low 5th Round pick (the lowest of three the Chiefs have in this year's draft). I fully expect them to draft a WR much sooner, but this would appropriately address the KR spot and give you a talented #4 guy. It's a risk:reward ratio I would be comfortable with.

But tell us what (low) 5th Round WR will give us First Round talent...AND manage KR's as effectively and productively?

You may also want to spell the word "brilliant" correctly the next time you decide to insult someone.

BossChief

04-13-2010, 06:48 PM

this shit is funny as hell.

about 120 posts in a thread talking about TRADING for a receiver with horrible hands when one of our biggest problems on offense last year was dropped passes. We almost broke the all time record for such.

anybody wanna go fast?

DaneMcCloud

04-13-2010, 09:46 PM

Say it with more disdain for ideas that differ from your own next time and it'll be even more convincing.

I suggested that I wouldn't mind parting with a low 5th Round pick (the lowest of three the Chiefs have in this year's draft). I fully expect them to draft a WR much sooner, but this would appropriately address the KR spot and give you a talented #4 guy. It's a risk:reward ratio I would be comfortable with.

But tell us what (low) 5th Round WR will give us First Round talent...AND manage KR's as effectively and productively?

You may also want to spell the word "brilliant" correctly the next time you decide to insult someone.

You're such a dumbass. Yeah, my misspelling (because one of my labs was bumping her nose on my hand telling me it was time for our 3.5 mile walk) impeded my point.

Trading anything other than a conditional 7th round pick for Ted Ginn is absolutely fucking stupid. The guy has three TD's in the return game in three years. He's got a worse case of the dropsies than Bowe and Samie Parker combined. He's a 400 yard per year WR at best, and he's coming up on a contract year.

But I would expect no less from you.

LMAO

notorious

04-13-2010, 09:48 PM

You're such a dumbass. Yeah, my misspelling (because one of my labs was bumping her nose on my hand telling me it was time for our 3.5 mile walk) impeded my point.

Trading anything other than a conditional 7th round pick for Ted Ginn is absolutely ****ing stupid. The guy has three TD's in the return game in three years. He's got a worse case of the dropsies than Bowe and Samie Parker combined. He's a 400 yard per year WR at best, and he's coming up on a contract year.

But I would expect no less from you.

LMAO

Labs kick ass. Best dogs ever.

DaneMcCloud

04-13-2010, 09:54 PM

Labs kick ass. Best dogs ever.

I've got two, four years old and six years old, both females. I don't know what I'd do without them. They sleep with us, hang out with us, go places with us. They're family.

I take them on a 3.5 mile walk at least five days a week throughout neighborhood and because we're in the "hills" (mountainous area), I took them for snake bit venom shots this morning. Two dogs were bit by a rattler on one of the trails (we stick to the streets but they are around) and fortunately were vaccinated. I didn't even know such a vaccination existed so when I found out, I made an appointment for this morning.

They're like clockwork, banging on my door everyday at 5:30, waiting for a walk. They're more precise with time than any clock I've ever owned.

LMAO

notorious

04-13-2010, 09:57 PM

I've got two, four years old and six years old, both females. I don't know what I'd do without them. They sleep with us, hang out with us, go places with us. They're family.

I take them on a 3.5 mile walk at least five days a week throughout neighborhood and because we're in the "hills" (mountainous area), I took them for snake bit venom shots this morning. Two dogs were bit by a rattler on one of the trails (we stick to the streets but they are around) and fortunately were vaccinated. I didn't even know such a vaccination existed so when I found out, I made an appointment for this morning.

They're like clockwork, banging on my door everyday at 5:30, waiting for a walk. They're more precise with time than any clock I've ever owned.

LMAO

Great. I have had two yellow labs in my life and they are/were awesome.

Unbelievably loyal. They will relax when it's time to relax and play when I'm ready to play.

BTW, thanks for defining "the hills" for us. Flatlanders get scared when they can't see 30 miles in each direction.

DaneMcCloud

04-13-2010, 09:59 PM

BTW, thanks for defining "the hills" for us. Flatlanders get scared when they can't see 30 miles in each direction.

LMAO

It's funny because being from Kansas, I expected the "Hollywood Hills" to be just that: Hills. Like the "hill" at KU.

Um, no.

They're freaking mountains! The hillside in which my home resides is decomposed granite! It's not dirt and a hill, it's a mountain.

LMAO

notorious

04-13-2010, 10:07 PM

LMAO

It's funny because being from Kansas, I expected the "Hollywood Hills" to be just that: Hills. Like the "hill" at KU.

Um, no.

They're freaking mountains! The hillside in which my home resides is decomposed granite! It's not dirt and a hill, it's a mountain.

LMAO

My best friend who I met in flight school is from Carson, Los Angeles. He visited out here (SW Kansas) 4 years ago and my wife and a few other friends took him driving in the country. Well, we had a few beers (wife was driving) and we had to stop to relieve ourselves.

He was worried that someone would drive up and see us.

We all gave him the WTF look, and asked him to look around. We could literally see 15 miles each direction, and there wasn't a soul in sight.

This same guy flys airliners out of Dallas. I guess a person hasn't lived until he pisses in the wind ROFL

Micjones

04-13-2010, 10:15 PM

You're such a dumbass. Yeah, my misspelling (because one of my labs was bumping her nose on my hand telling me it was time for our 3.5 mile walk) impeded my point.

It didn't impede the point (if it can be called that), but it should've impeded the insult.

Trading anything other than a conditional 7th round pick for Ted Ginn is absolutely fucking stupid.

Because Dane says so. I suppose there's nothing else to see here?
Sorry to have bothered you Bill Walsh.
Anyone, after all, that draws a comparison between Samie Parker and Ted Ginn ought never to be questioned.

The guy has three TD's in the return game in three years. He's got a worse case of the dropsies than Bowe and Samie Parker combined. He's a 400 yard per year WR at best, and he's coming up on a contract year.

But I would expect no less from you.

LMAO

He's also a First Round talent whom we could acquire with a lower draft pick than we surrendered for Parker. He provides us with a real answer in the return game (something Parker never did)...and we have multiple 5th round picks (three to be exact). You never bothered to answer what low 5th Round WR prospect would be a better alternative...

But I wouldn't expect you to understand any of that either...

Chieftain58

04-13-2010, 10:43 PM

why?

DaneMcCloud

04-13-2010, 10:57 PM

He's also a First Round talent whom we could acquire with a lower draft pick than we surrendered for Parker. He provides us with a real answer in the return game (something Parker never did)...and we have multiple 5th round picks (three to be exact). You never bothered to answer what low 5th Round WR prospect would be a better alternative...

But I wouldn't expect you to understand any of that either...

Dumbassery, at its finest.

Please explain how Ted Ginn, after three years in the NFL, is quote "first round talent".

LMAO

You're such an uninformed tool.

BossChief

04-13-2010, 11:14 PM

Fred Barnes is a much better gamble for any fifth rounder than Ginn.

that was easy

Ginn couldnt catch if he had three hands

Wilson8

04-14-2010, 12:05 AM

Dolphins shopping Ginn, but who is buying?

According to report today, the Dolphins are shopping wide receiver Ted Ginn. At first glace, this leads to speculation that Miami is going to look for a first-round WR — such as Okie State’s Dez Bryant.

But the first task is to find a buyer for Ginn. And, I don’t see how teams are going to line up with offers for the former first-round pick.

Ginn isn’t a No.1 receiver. He doesn’t have that physical skill set you want from a player who lines up outside of the numbers and goes against the top-tier CBs in the NFL. He will struggle to get off of press coverage, and although he does have the vertical speed you covet in a WR, it hasn’t translated to the field.

The former Ohio State star has only caught five TDs in his career.

On special teams, he can be a weapon. A good player to have in the return game and the type of player who can flip the field when the ball is kicked to him.

We can still call Ginn a dynamic player, but one who isn’t going to draw huge interest leading up to the draft. He is better suited as a WR who can work between the numbers and face matchups against a defense’s nickel corner instead of trying to make a living on the outside.

But, what does that say about his value? Because you are trading for a return man who has yet to develop as a wide receiver. Ginn could be worth a fifth round pick on the market as a key player on special teams. That is a big drop from where he was drafted after just three seasons in the NFL, but the value as a WR isn’t there. Because of that, Miami should not expect to see strong offers start to pour in.

Looks like it could be a tough sell leading up to the draft.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Dolphins-shopping-Ginn-but-who-is-buying.html

Wilson8

04-14-2010, 01:52 AM

1. The Chiefs need a punt returner to replace Bobby Wade.

2. There are several possible PR/WR that will be available in the draft.

3. The news stories indicate that the trade value for Ted Ginn Jr. is a 5th round draft pick.

4. WR Emanuel Sanders, SMU and WR Antonio Brown, CMU were very good in college for punt returns and could also be used in the slot. Both of them are projected to be available in the 5th round.

5. Ginn’s fairly modest 1st round 9th pick salary (signed through 2012 at annual salaries of $1.04 million, $1.39 million and $1.8 million).

6. Ted Ginn Jr. would have to be used primarily as return man with some action in the slot.

7. A 5th round draft pick is far from a sure thing as a punt returner or a wide receiver. Recent Kansas City picks Kevin Robinson and Quinten Lawrence were both 6th round selections. In last year’s draft, Brooks Foster, Jarett Dillard, Johnny Knox, and Kenny McKinley were the 5th round wide receivers.

Conclusion – Kansas City should offer Miami’s 5th round draft pick back to them in exchange for Ted Ginn Jr.

Wilson8

04-14-2010, 02:15 AM

I take it back.

KC should not trade for Ginn. I thought he was a much better punt return man.

I looked at his 2007 thru 2009 stats. Decent kick-off returns. Not that good for punts.

KC needs someone that can do returns for punts.

siberian khatru

04-14-2010, 07:06 AM

Fred Barnes is a much better gamble for any fifth rounder than Ginn.

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/palm/blog/16_61_barnes_fred_320.jpg

FloridaMan88

04-14-2010, 07:27 AM

Ginn is essentially the type of player Dante Hall was for the Chiefs during the 2002-2003 seasons.

It is hilarious how people around here act like draft picks are gold and are going to automatically result in better players than trading for a veteran player who is proven in the NFL.

What has a greater probability of happening next season... Ginn having an immediate impact for the Chiefs as a kick/punt returner if they were to trade for him, or a 5th round draft pick coming in and having an immediate impact.

I'll take my chances with Ginn.

Micjones

04-14-2010, 09:51 AM

Dumbassery, at its finest.

Please explain how Ted Ginn, after three years in the NFL, is quote "first round talent".

LMAO

You're such an uninformed tool.

Yes, I'm uninformed because forgotten member of the Four Horsemen says so. If you just keep pretending... You won't have to confront the fact that you're not as knowledgeable about the NFL as you'd like to believe. That Samie Parker is Ted Ginn comparison was a brilliant piece of talent evaluation after all.

I told you before I'd call you if I ever wanted to banter about Hollywood harlots. This isn't your area of expertise.

Ginn is still VERY talented, but certainly he hasn't played to his draft position. His skillset is such that it can still be valuable on an NFL team. He'll land on his feet. A low 5th Round pick is reasonable compensation for a player with his talents. He can contribute offensively and be an answer at KR (which further helps the offense).

Sure-Oz

04-14-2010, 09:54 AM

If anything id give them our last 5 rounder

CoMoChief

04-14-2010, 10:15 AM

1. QB Jimmy Clausen
2. NT Terrance Cody
2. OT Jared Gaither (via trade w/ Ravens)
3. SS Chad Jones
4. OLB Eric Norwood
5. OL Chris Scott
5. C Eric Olsen
5. WR Ted Ginn Jr. (trade via Dolphins)

WTF is with me?!?!?!? ALRIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT LETS DO THIS....

LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYY JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MoreLemonPledge

04-14-2010, 10:17 AM

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 10:38 AM

Yes, I'm uninformed because forgotten member of the Four Horsemen says so. If you just keep pretending... You won't have to confront the fact that you're not as knowledgeable about the NFL as you'd like to believe. That Samie Parker is Ted Ginn comparison was a brilliant piece of talent evaluation after all.

I told you before I'd call you if I ever wanted to banter about Hollywood harlots. This isn't your area of expertise.

Ginn is still VERY talented, but certainly he hasn't played to his draft position. His skillset is such that it can still be valuable on an NFL team. He'll land on his feet. A low 5th Round pick is reasonable compensation for a player with his talents. He can contribute offensively and be an answer at KR (which further helps the offense).

LMAO

I swear Man, the Chiefs could sign HeHateMe and you'd tell us he was the second coming of Jim Brown.

LMAO

Sure-Oz

04-14-2010, 10:42 AM

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 10:51 AM

I'd rely on Ginn to be a 3rd or 4th WR and a decent KR thats about it.

he was average at best at WR....sure he could improve but i wouldn't count on anything major. For a speed guy he doesn't have many TDS

His numbers are terrible, his hands are terrible - he's just NOT a good WR and I don't even know if you can call him an average returner.

He was a bust at #9 overall, which is why just three years later, the Dolphins want to move him. They'll be lucky to get a 2011 fifth rounder. He's maxed out.

Sure-Oz

04-14-2010, 10:52 AM

His numbers are terrible, his hands are terrible - he's just NOT a good WR and I don't even know if you can call him an average returner.

He was a bust at #9 overall, which is why just three years later, the Dolphins want to move him. They'll be lucky to get a 2011 fifth rounder. He's maxed out.

I believe he had the 3rd most drops or something, so definetly not good....and you're probably right. We could probably get someone in the draft with our 5th that could be more reliable. He shouldnt have even been drafted as high as he was

King_Chief_Fan

04-14-2010, 10:55 AM

Fred Barnes is a much better gamble for any fifth rounder than Ginn.

that was easy

Ginn couldnt catch if he had three hands

how about Fred Flintstone

CoMoChief

04-14-2010, 10:57 AM

LMAO

I swear Man, the Chiefs could sign HeHateMe and you'd tell us he was the second coming of Jim Brown.

LMAO

Dude, you're talking about a 5th rd draft pick here, for a former #1 draft pick that has playmaking ability in the return game.

We have 3 5th rd picks.

We wouldn't be giving up much....and it's not like that 5th rounder would be spent on drafting a future probowler. More than likely the guy will just barely crack the 46 man roster on game days, more than likely will be a practice squad guy.

The return game is a big need for us. Charles can't handle that duty if he's going to be carrying the ball a lot this season. Ginn Jr would indeed help out this team. We currently don't have anyone better, and a 5th rd pick is barely giving up anything at all. IMO Ginn would produce more for this team than what any 5th rounder we would've chosen otherwise.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 10:58 AM

I believe he had the 3rd most drops or something, so definetly not good....and you're probably right. We could probably get someone in the draft with our 5th that could be more reliable. He shouldnt have even been drafted as high as he was

He's Sammy Parker without a few TD returns.

It's absolutely shocking to me that anyone would advocate trading anything more than a 7th rounder, especially considering he's likely to be released with the Brandon Marshall acquisition.

He's just a guy. Nothing special.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 11:01 AM

Dude, you're talking about a 5th rd draft pick here, for a former #1 draft pick that has playmaking ability in the return game.

We have 3 5th rd picks.

We wouldn't be giving up much....and it's not like that 5th rounder would be spent on drafting a future probowler. More than likely the guy will just barely crack the 46 man roster on game days, more than likely will be a practice squad guy.

The return game is a big need for us. Charles can't handle that duty if he's going to be carrying the ball a lot this season. Ginn Jr would indeed help out this team. We currently don't have anyone better, and a 5th rd pick is barely giving up anything at all. IMO Ginn would produce more for this team than what any 5th rounder we would've chosen otherwise.

I'd rather use a 5th round pick on a guy like Eric Olsen or George Selvie - guys with upside, not a guy that's not an elite or even special returner and a guy that drops more balls in the receiving game than Dwayne Bowe.

This draft has 50 guys with a first round grade. That means that there will be plenty of talent that can help the Chiefs in the fifth round, guys that should have been in the fourth and maybe even a few in the third.

Draft picks are very valuable this year and to give one up, you'd better get a special player in return.

Ginn is NOT special.

Furthermore, why would anyone consider giving up a 5th round pick for a guy that touches the ball less than 10 times a game?

MOhillbilly

04-14-2010, 11:01 AM

Id rather use the picks we have in the draft. Noway i believe there isnt someone who cant handle PR/KR in the 5th round. I guess id rather find a diamond in the rough than try to polish a turd.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 11:03 AM

Id rather use the picks we have in the draft. Noway i believe there isnt someone who cant handle PR/KR in the 5th round. I guess id rather find a diamond in the rough than try to polish a turd.

Exactly.

I swear, if Ryan Sims had been drafted by another team at #6 overall, there would be Chiefs fans pining for him with a 5th rounder because he was once #6 overall.

:facepalm:

Sure-Oz

04-14-2010, 11:06 AM

I'd rather use a 5th round pick on a guy like Eric Olsen or George Selvie - guys with upside, not a guy that's not an elite or even special returner and a guy that drops more balls in the receiving game than Dwayne Bowe.

This draft has 50 guys with a first round grade. That means that there will be plenty of talent that can help the Chiefs in the fifth round, guys that should have been in the fourth and maybe even a few in the third.

Draft picks are very valuable this year and to give one up, you'd better get a special player in return.

Ginn is NOT special.

Furthermore, why would anyone consider giving up a 5th round pick for a guy that touches the ball less than 10 times a game?

I agree on this...i thought at 1st a 5th wouldn't be bad, but that is still a solid pick to atleast get someone that could fill a solid role if anything. I wouldn't mind taking a flyer on him if he is released but thats it.

suds79

04-14-2010, 11:10 AM

While I'm not a fan of giving up picks, I'm assuming it'd be cheap to get this guy.

Lawerence was drafted to be our return guy but never panned out in that spot either. It's not like whoever we draft mid to late is a for sure return guy. Sometimes they just don't cut it.

We wouldn't be asking Ginn to even be our #1 or #2 WR. He'd be a nickle guy at best with speed which this team desperately needs. And most of all, we've have a very good (not average) return man.

I think it's worth looking into.

chiefs1111

04-14-2010, 11:10 AM

No way should the Chiefs trade for Ginn. If the Dolphins cut him,fine bring him in for a look. otherwise,no thank you

Sure-Oz

04-14-2010, 11:15 AM

CoMoChief

04-14-2010, 11:15 AM

I'd rather use a 5th round pick on a guy like Eric Olsen or George Selvie - guys with upside, not a guy that's not an elite or even special returner and a guy that drops more balls in the receiving game than Dwayne Bowe.

This draft has 50 guys with a first round grade. That means that there will be plenty of talent that can help the Chiefs in the fifth round, guys that should have been in the fourth and maybe even a few in the third.

Draft picks are very valuable this year and to give one up, you'd better get a special player in return.

Ginn is NOT special.

Furthermore, why would anyone consider giving up a 5th round pick for a guy that touches the ball less than 10 times a game?

Because starting out at the 35+ yd line is better than the 15-20.......we don't have anyone who can return kickoffs.

And Selvie and Olsen could still be drafted since........we have 3 5th rd picks.

suds79

04-14-2010, 11:22 AM

The guy drops too many passes though, speed isn't everything

So you're saying he's like Dwayne Bowe then with speed. :P

Fair enough. I'm not going to pretend like I've been following his career closely.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 11:40 AM

And Selvie and Olsen could still be drafted since........we have 3 5th rd picks.

And that's my point: You can find players in the 5th round that play 50-60 snaps per game, not 10.

Ginn is nothing special - he's just a guy.

I'd rather see the Chiefs draft Mardy Gilyard with their 3rd round pick. He's a guy than can contribute in the return game and as a #3 receiver.

Ginn can't.

nychief

04-14-2010, 11:50 AM

if you can get him for a song.... sure... a 7th next year or something.... but otherwise, lets bring in our own disappointments via the draft.

Sure-Oz

04-14-2010, 12:00 PM

So you're saying he's like Dwayne Bowe then with speed. :P

Fair enough. I'm not going to pretend like I've been following his career closely.

I have followed it enough and seen some of his games to know he wasn't visible and dropped some key passes. He wasn't even worth a late round fantasy flyer and id def bring him in for a look if he was released and see if he is worth a shot but not for a pick.

Micjones

04-14-2010, 12:37 PM

LMAO

I swear Man, the Chiefs could sign HeHateMe and you'd tell us he was the second coming of Jim Brown.

LMAO

When all else fails... Smilies and straw arguments to the rescue!
Brilliant. Thanks again for sharing such a wealth of NFL knowledge with the rest of us.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 12:45 PM

When all else fails... Smilies and straw arguments to the rescue!
Brilliant. Thanks again for sharing such a wealth of NFL knowledge with the rest of us.

OH, just fuck off.

Nearly everyone in this thread agrees with me: Ted Ginn is NOTHING special, nor has he been anything other than AVERAGE in his NFL career.

Giving up a draft pick, especially in this year's draft, is fucking asinine.

Just like you and your stupid, fucking personnel opinions.

Which again, is why I'm NOT surprised you endorse this idea.

Par for the course.

The Franchise

04-14-2010, 12:47 PM

I'd give up a 6th or 7th for him. But we don't have one of those. You know....Jake O'Connell and shit.

Sure-Oz

04-14-2010, 12:47 PM

OH, just **** off.

Nearly everyone in this thread agrees with me: Ted Ginn is NOTHING special, nor has he been anything other than AVERAGE in his NFL career.

Giving up a draft pick, especially in this year's draft, is ****ing asinine.

Just like you and your stupid, ****ing personnel opinions.

Which again, is why I'm NOT surprised you endorse this idea.

Par for the course.

Bob Fescoe was talking about maybe even giving up a pick higher than a 5 or multiple 5's for him. I should've known then the chiefs are better suited to not trade any picks.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 12:49 PM

I'd give up a 6th or 7th for him. But we don't have one of those. You know....Jake O'Connell and shit.

You mean shit like Nsukwe and Alleman?

Yep, they're all shit.

And even if the Chiefs HAD a 7th this year, I wouldn't give it up. Giving up a pick for essentially a one-dimensional player that's maxed out and would touch the ball 5-8 times a game is ludicrous.

Especially in THIS draft.

MOhillbilly

04-14-2010, 01:05 PM

They're like clockwork, banging on my door everyday at 5:30, waiting for a walk. They're more precise with time than any clock I've ever owned.

LMAO

pitbulls are better. mine lays around till i get up then i let her out.
Then she KILLS everything she sees.

Bowser

04-14-2010, 01:07 PM

pitbulls are better. mine lays around till i get up then i let her out.
Then she KILLS everything she sees.

Well, sure she does. She's pissed that she had to wait on you to drag out of bed before she could take her morning dump. :)

Bowser

04-14-2010, 01:08 PM

I'd give up a 6th or 7th for him. But we don't have one of those. You know....Jake O'Connell and shit.

We should trade O'Connell for Ginn.

Wilson8

04-14-2010, 01:33 PM

Ginn is a good kick-off return man. He was 5th in the NFL last year.. He hasn't been used much for punt returns the last two years. Miami used Davone Bess for that duty. Ted returned 24 punts in 2007.

Some return stats for 2009…

KC’s Bobby Wade returned 21 punts for 160 yards, 7.6 yard average and 19 fair catches. His longest return was 18 yards.

Cleveland’s Josh Cribbs returned 38 punts for 452 yards for a 11.9 average. He also had 3 fair catches. His longest was 67 yards and he had 1 TD.

Miami’s Davone Bess returned 28 punts for 209 yards to give him a 7.5 yard average. He also had 13 fair catches. His longest return was 22 yards.

Ted Ginn Jr. returned 5 punts for 28 yards for a 5.6 yard average. He also had 52 Kick-offs for 1296 yards and 2 TDs.

KC really needs a return man for punts.

If KC thinks that Ginn could handle punts and kick-offs then he might be worth a low round draft pick.

Hammock Parties

04-14-2010, 01:39 PM

I can't believe anyone would argue against giving up a 7th round pick for this guy.

In what world are seventh-round picks suddenly important?

The Franchise

04-14-2010, 01:41 PM

I can't believe anyone would argue against giving up a 7th round pick for this guy.

In what world are seventh-round picks suddenly important?

*cough*Succop*cough*

Pushead2

04-14-2010, 01:41 PM

I can't believe anyone would argue against giving up a 7th round pick for this guy.

In what world are seventh-round picks suddenly important?

I'd give up a 7th round next year as previously stated.

Micjones

04-14-2010, 01:51 PM

OH, just fuck off.

Nearly everyone in this thread agrees with me: Ted Ginn is NOTHING special, nor has he been anything other than AVERAGE in his NFL career.

There are also clearly those that disagree. Ultimately it dovetails with my original point. You think you know more than every other poster on the Planet. What you don't realize is that your real knowledge base doesn't support that claim and makes you look incredibly insecure. What it must feel like to have to berate the next poster on the forum each and every time their opinions differ from your own.

You're made for Hollywood Dane.
What better place is there for a self-important person who pretends to know more than they do in reality?

Giving up a draft pick, especially in this year's draft, is fucking asinine.

Just like you and your stupid, fucking personnel opinions.

Which again, is why I'm NOT surprised you endorse this idea.

Par for the course.

Seeing as how we'd be getting Ginn in return, something strikes me as dishonest about characterizing that transaction as "giving up a draft pick".

But you're the king of blowing shit out of proportion so carry on.
I'll be sure to clear my opinions with you next time. Certainly the service time you've logged in NFL front offices warrants me deferring to your judgment. Nothing says "I know the NFL" better than your first-hand accounts of having rubbed shoulders with celebrities.

The bitch in you is truly in rare form today...
I hear Midol helps.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 01:51 PM

I can't believe anyone would argue against giving up a 7th round pick for this guy.

In what world are seventh-round picks suddenly important?

In what world AREN'T seventh round picks important?

And you write for a football website?

Hootie

04-14-2010, 01:52 PM

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 01:52 PM

There are also clearly those that disagree. Ultimately it dovetails with my original point. You think you know more than every other poster on the Planet. What you don't realize is that your real knowledge base doesn't support that claim and makes you look incredibly insecure. What it must feel like to have to berate the next poster on the forum each and every time their opinions differ from your own.

You're made for Hollywood Dane.
What better place is there for a self-important person who pretends to know more than they do in reality?

Seeing as how we'd be getting Ginn in return something strikes me as dishonest about characterizing that transaction as "giving up a draft pick".

But you're the king of blowing shit out of proportion so carry on.
I'll be sure to clear my opinions of your next time. Certainly the service time you've logged in NFL front offices warrants me deferring to your judgment.

The bitch in you is truly in rare form today...
I hear Midol helps.

Oh, and there it is: The "you don't work in the NFL" bullshit.

Hey Mic, why don't you do us all a favor and go fuck yourself?

Thanks.

Bill Lundberg

04-14-2010, 01:53 PM

I can't believe anyone would argue against giving up a 7th round pick for this guy.

In what world are seventh-round picks suddenly important?

Ask the Saints if they would give up Marques Colston for Ginn.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 01:53 PM

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 01:53 PM

I'd say Ted Ginn has a way better chance of being an impact player than any three of our 5th round picks combined...

and I don't think Ted Ginn has much of a chance...

That's how much the idiot drafturbators overrate late round picks.

So, you're on record as stating that 5th round picks are essentially worthless, correct?

LMAO

Hootie

04-14-2010, 01:54 PM

Ask the Saints if they would give up Marques Colston for Ginn.

Ask the Saints if they'd give up any of their other 7th round picks in the last 10 years for Ted Ginn.

Bowser

04-14-2010, 01:54 PM

Ask the Saints if they would give up Marques Colston for Ginn. Let me answer for the Saints -

No. Fuck no. GTFO.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 01:55 PM

So, you're on record as stating that 5th round picks are essentially worthless, correct?

LMAO

Essentially, yes.

Especially if the salary cap never comes back.

Any time you have a shot to get some productivity and a guy with upside (Ginn) for a 5th round pick...you take it.

Are you kidding me?

Or many we can draft Larry Brackins, Adam Kieft or Drew Hodgdon!

OnTheWarpath15

04-14-2010, 01:55 PM

I'd say Ted Ginn has a way better chance of being an impact player than any three of our 5th round picks combined...

and I don't think Ted Ginn has much of a chance...

That's how much the idiot drafturbators overrate late round picks.

In this case, I don't think the issue for some of us is the loss of a draft pick, it's that we see no value in Ginn.

Ginn, Urban, Long, Copper, Engram, Toomer....

Scrubs replaced by scrubs.

We have plenty of underachievers. We really don't need anymore.

nychief

04-14-2010, 01:55 PM

Ask the Saints if they would give up Marques Colston for Ginn.

Look, I don't want to give up much for Ginn... but, this is a retarded post. So EVERY 7th is a Colston and every 6th is Brady...

Jesus, between the people clamoring to hoard picks and the people deriding the picks we haven't even made yet...this place is skitzo

OnTheWarpath15

04-14-2010, 01:57 PM

Essentially, yes.

Especially if the salary cap never comes back.

Any time you have a shot to get some productivity and a guy with upside (Ginn) for a 5th round pick...you take it.

Are you kidding me?

Or many we can draft Larry Brackins, Adam Kieft or Drew Hodgdon!

And there's the rub.

Some people think Ginn has upside. Some don't.

This isn't about the compensation.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 01:57 PM

The equivalent to your chances of a 5th round pick being a productive, impact NFL player:

Flip a quarter 10 times in a row...call heads or tails and get it right every single time.

DRAFTURBATORS....WHERE 5TH ROUND PICKS ARE BETTER THAN TED GINN JR!

Yeah, he's a bust...but he has a ton of upside, speed and is a better returner, by far, than anything we have...if we could get him for 1 5th round pick, it's a steal.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 01:58 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_nfl_draft#Round_five

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_nfl_draft#Round_five

2005 and 2006...one pro bowler...90% awful players.

And these drafturbators will lead you to believe that 5th round picks are GOLDEN.

Hey, I said that Pioli should have given up a 5th round pick for Holmes in a fucking heartbeat. No questions asked.

But Ted Ginn? Nope.

The value has been set. Marshall went for two second rounds, Holmes for a fifth, Boldin for a third and a five. There's no way Ted Ginn is worth a 2010 fifth rounder.

Hammock Parties

04-14-2010, 01:58 PM

In what world AREN'T seventh round picks important?

In 10 years the Chiefs have found exactly one marginally significant starter in the 7th round: Jarrad Page.

The Indianapolis Colts, the best drafting team in the league, have found exactly ONE: Rick DeMulling.

The odds of actually hitting on a seventh-round pick are so astronomical that giving up one for a guy with elite speed who has shown an ability to be a solid kick returner is worth the "risk."

Micjones

04-14-2010, 01:59 PM

Oh, and there it is: The "you don't work in the NFL" bullshit.

Hey Mic, why don't you do us all a favor and go fuck yourself?

Thanks.

This is where these discussions always end.
You're at the end of your intellectual wick so you roll out the "go fuck yourself" fare. You have as much fight in you as a 7-year old girl.

Here's a thought though...
If you'd spend less time putting on an air of superiority around here...
You'd probably wouldn't have to worry about getting backed into a corner.

Ultimately, you're a fan like the rest of us.
The sooner you realize that...the better.

Some know the game. Some don't. Some know it better than others.
I'll admit there are those here who trump my knowledge.
You.are.not.one.of.those.people.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:01 PM

His problem is the drops...

Plain and simple.

Is that something that can be fixed?

Who knows?

But to say he even remotely compares to the Urbans/Coppers/Wades/Toomers/Engrams/Longs...is insane.

The dude get in Parcells' doghouse for continuous dropped passes...can that be fixed? If it can, he could be an elite NFL WR...

If not, he can still be a top tier return guy...

And if that's not worth a 5th round pick, you guys are nuts!

Seriously...

Go look at the 5th round from 2003-2006 (where you can actually judge the players)...

I don't care how "deep" this draft might look to you people...5th round picks are BASICALLY worthless...finding that all-pro 5th rounder is less common than finding an all-pro undrafted free agent.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:03 PM

Hey, I said that Pioli should have given up a 5th round pick for Holmes in a ****ing heartbeat. No questions asked.

But Ted Ginn? Nope.

The value has been set. Marshall went for two second rounds, Holmes for a fifth, Boldin for a third and a five. There's no way Ted Ginn is worth a 2010 fifth rounder.

Well no one wanted Holmes because he is a flat out thug. You're not getting true value for a guy who was given away.

I think Ted Ginn has 4th round value to a LOT of teams...

I mean...

This is the NFL. Character IS a red flag.

Randy Moss was traded for a 4th to the same team that traded for an unproven slot guy (Welker) for a 2nd and a 7th.

It happens.

Bill Lundberg

04-14-2010, 02:04 PM

Look, I don't want to give up much for Ginn... but, this is a retarded post. So EVERY 7th is a Colston and every 6th is Brady...

Jesus, between the people clamoring to hoard picks and the people deriding the picks we haven't even made yet...this place is skitzo

That post if said aloud had a smartass ring to it. Try it. Read it out loud in a smartass voice.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:04 PM

Seriously...

Undrafted free agents (and I know there are way more of these guys than 5th-7th round picks) have a way better track record than anything from the 5th-7th rounds.

Basically...after the 4th round...the whole draft is just taking your favorite undrafted free agents and hoping for the best.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 02:06 PM

Some know the game. Some don't. Some know it better than others.
I'll admit there are those here who trump my knowledge.
You.are.not.one.of.those.people.

You live in a strange, strange world because quite honestly, you don't know jack fucking shit about personnel or the game and you are consistently wrong in your analysis.

Don't believe me? Start a poll, Dickweed.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 02:08 PM

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:08 PM

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 02:08 PM

Well no one wanted Holmes because he is a flat out thug. You're not getting true value for a guy who was given away.

I think Ted Ginn has 4th round value to a LOT of teams...

I mean...

This is the NFL. Character IS a red flag.

Randy Moss was traded for a 4th to the same team that traded for an unproven slot guy (Welker) for a 2nd and a 7th.

It happens.

They're looking for a 5th, so the idea of a 4th is incorrect.

I think they'll be lucky to get a 7th but you never know, someone might overpay. I just hope it's not the Chiefs.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:09 PM

Great teams aren't necessarily comprised of Pro Bowl players at every position, so that argument is lame.

Sure...

But go through some of those 5th rounds and show me how many are even decent complementary players for the teams that selected them...

Titty Meat

04-14-2010, 02:09 PM

MicJones said Urban would be a slot guy and catch seven touchdowns. Nuff said

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 02:10 PM

I'm just wondering how many years it will take before the trendy drafturbators (and this is a recent development) realize how unimportant late round picks really are.

Last year I think Hamas and Mecca may have shed tears of anger after we traded a 2010 7th to get back into the 2009 7th round to take Jake O'Connell...

Like we were trading a $20 bill for a $0.50 piece.

Yeah, you're right, Hootie. There shouldn't even BE a draft after the 1st round everyone else is just a bust waiting to happen, right?

I mean, Ryan Succop was a 1st rounder and he was the Chiefs best selection last year.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 02:11 PM

In 10 years the Chiefs have found exactly one marginally significant starter in the 7th round: Jarrad Page.

The Indianapolis Colts, the best drafting team in the league, have found exactly ONE: Rick DeMulling.

The odds of actually hitting on a seventh-round pick are so astronomical that giving up one for a guy with elite speed who has shown an ability to be a solid kick returner is worth the "risk."

I'm not talking about the Chiefs and their horrific draft record. I'm talking about the value of a 7th round pick.

The Chiefs have TWO essential starters that were 7th rounders right now: Cassel and Succop. I'm not a Cassel fan but that 7th was turned into a second rounder just last year.

Micjones

04-14-2010, 02:12 PM

You live in a strange, strange world because quite honestly, you don't know jack fucking shit about personnel or the game and you are consistently wrong in your analysis.

Don't believe me? Start a poll, Dickweed.

Yeah because obviously if I don't give a rat's ass what you think...
I must be dying to know what the rest of the forum does.

ROFL

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:12 PM

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 02:13 PM

Yeah because obviously if I don't give a rat's ass what you think...
I must be dying to know what the rest of the forum does.

ROFL

Hey Dumbfuck, I have 1.2 million rep points. And you know what? 90% are due to my football takes.

No one around here gives a shit about you but you.

Good luck with that.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:14 PM

I'm not talking about the Chiefs and their horrific draft record. I'm talking about the value of a 7th round pick.

The Chiefs have TWO essential starters that were 7th rounders right now: Cassel and Succop. I'm not a Cassel fan but that 7th was turned into a second rounder just last year.

Yeah for every Matt Cassel success story there are 1,000 7th rounders that fall back into oblivion...

and kickers don't fucking count...

Any kicker that actually gets drafted BETTER be a good kicker...since the majority of NFL kickers never hear their names called on draft day.

Micjones

04-14-2010, 02:15 PM

MicJones said Urban would be a slot guy and catch seven touchdowns. Nuff said

No I didn't dipshit, but leave it to you to twist up the truth.
I said he could give us 500 yards and 4 TD's.

I went on to say that he was somehow the 4th WR on a team with Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin and Steve Breaston, but somehow he can't be a #3 or #4 here?

You are every bit as stupid as your commentary suggests.
You're also a troll who dickrides like a two-dollar whore.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:15 PM

Hey Dumb****, I have 1.2 million rep points. And you know what? 90% are due to my football takes.

No one around here gives a shit about you but you.

Good luck with that.

and 800,000 of them are from Hamas/OTWP or one of your half dozen lackeys...

Congratulations.

I have like 400,000 rep points and 390,000 of them have come from pointing out how ludicrous some of your or Hamas Jenkins takes really are.

Titty Meat

04-14-2010, 02:15 PM

We dont need a seventh round draft pick we got urban/ micjones

Bowser

04-14-2010, 02:16 PM

So is Hootie making an argument that we should trade a 5th for Ginn, or that we should stop drafting after the third round?

Micjones

04-14-2010, 02:16 PM

Hey Dumbfuck, I have 1.2 million rep points. And you know what? 90% are due to my football takes.

No one around here gives a shit about you but you.

Good luck with that.

Only a man of your stature could make virtual rep points seem like currency or something to be heralded as an accomplishment in life.
:shake:

Hammock Parties

04-14-2010, 02:16 PM

I'm not talking about the Chiefs and their horrific draft record. I'm talking about the value of a 7th round pick.

I just laid it out for you: the INDIANAPOLIS COLTS found the same number of starters in the 7th round as the Chiefs over the last 10 years.

If you want to take it one step further, the PITTSBURGH STEELERS found just ONE in the last 10 years: Brett Keisel.

7th round picks are worthless.

Titty Meat

04-14-2010, 02:16 PM

No I didn't dipshit, but leave it to you to twist up the truth.
I said he could give us 500 yards and 4 TD's.

I went on to say that he was somehow the 4th WR on a team with Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin and Steve Breaston, but somehow he can't be a #3 or #4 here?

You are every bit as stupid as your commentary suggests.
You're also a troll who dickrides like a two-dollar whore.

Is Mic going to take his ball and go home or just give more shitty takes? Urban and Long are legit WR's according to you ROFL

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 02:17 PM

The only reason a 5th would be a bad trade is because Ginn makes more money than he should...

But we basically are spending no money as it is so why not take a flier on the guy and get him for a 5th?

This makes no sense to me.

Potential playmaker...AT THE VERY LEAST...and upgrade to our return game...for a 5th round pick...and we already have three of them...and the chances of us drafting a player better than Ginn in the 5th is low at best.

Of course I'm the one that wanted to trade our 2B for Anquan Boldin and no one else seemed to agree because he's ALMOST 30 (lol)...so what do I know...draft picks are golden...nevermind the fact that they are all total, complete crapshoots and we'll be lucky to see anything after our #5 come even close to the NFL player that Boldin already is...

He's been in the league for three years and he's not proven himself to be a consistent playmaker. If the Chiefs trade for him and he likely continues dropping balls, he'll be sitting on the bench, like Bradley and Bowe and Wade last year.

So at that point, you're giving up a 5th round pick in a deep draft for a guy that might touch the ball 7-10 times a game. That's too much compensation based on a whim.

A 7th round pick? Sure. But knowing that he'll likely be released due to the Brandon Marshall trade, I'd bet most teams are willing to sit back and wait for that to happen.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 02:17 PM

I just laid it out for you: the INDIANAPOLIS COLTS found the same number of starters in the 7th round as the Chiefs over the last 10 years.

If you want to take it one step further, the PITTSBURGH STEELERS found just ONE in the last 10 years: Brett Keisel.

7th round picks are worthless.

Tell that to Matt Cassel, Marques Colston and Ryan Succop, just off the top of my head.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 02:19 PM

Only a man of your stature could make virtual rep points seem like currency or something to be heralded as an accomplishment in life.
:shake:

Um, it's not an accomplishment, dipshit. It's a sign that my opinion IS respected, unlike yours.

BTW, the only person you're arguing with is yourself.

Get over it.

Titty Meat

04-14-2010, 02:19 PM

Marques Colston and Courtland Finnegan were seventh round picks the same year. So was Jarrad Page.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:19 PM

I really hope he stops using Ryan Succop after that last post...

Dane...please...for the love of god...stop using Ryan Succop to back up your 7th round argument.

Micjones

04-14-2010, 02:19 PM

Is Mic going to take his ball and go home or just give more shitty takes? Urban and Long are legit WR's according to you ROFL

Yes, your having put words onto my keyboard makes me want to steer clear of the forum entirely.

I guess if you're incapable of presenting an argument as to why Urban can't be a #4 on a team that's infinitely less talented than the one he came from (where he was a #4)... You make shit up and pretend I called Long something other than "a young kid with talent who could contribute if given a chance".

As you were soldier.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:20 PM

So is Hootie making an argument that we should trade a 5th for Ginn, or that we should stop drafting after the third round?

I'm making the argument that any time you can get a talented player (Ginn) that is young and has upside...for a 5th round pick...you do it.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 02:21 PM

I really hope he stops using Ryan Succop after that last post...

Dane...please...for the love of god...stop using Ryan Succop to back up your 7th round argument.

Why Hootie? Was he NOT a 7th round pick? If the Chiefs hadn't selected him, what were the odds that he'd sign with KC as an UDFA?

Furthermore, I've provided more examples in Cassel and Colston. Whether you believe it to be true or not is not important but the fact remains that 7th round picks DO have value.

Titty Meat

04-14-2010, 02:21 PM

Yes, your having put words onto my keyboard makes me want to steer clear of the forum entirely.

I guess if you're incapable of presenting an argument as to why Urban can't be a #4 on a team that's infinitely less talented than the one he came from (where he was a #4)... You make shit up and pretend I called Long something other than "a young kid with talent who could contribute if given a chance".

As you were soldier.

He wasn't fourth on Arizonas depth chart ROFL you continue to lie for these shitty players.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 02:22 PM

So is Hootie making an argument that we should trade a 5th for Ginn, or that we should stop drafting after the third round?

Both.

In Hootie's mind, the draft is irrelevant beyond round one.

Hammock Parties

04-14-2010, 02:22 PM

Tell that to Matt Cassel, Marques Colston and Ryan Succop, just off the top of my head.

Three cherry-picked examples don't override 30 combined years of draft history.

The fact that a HORRIBLE drafting team like the Chiefs had as much luck - and in fact more, if you count Succop - as the COLTS AND STEELERS proves that 7th round picks are worthless.

And the fact you brought up Colston only further proves my point. He's the ONLY seventh round pick the Saints had in the last 10 years that was worth a shit.

Micjones

04-14-2010, 02:22 PM

Um, it's not an accomplishment, dipshit. It's a sign that my opinion IS respected, unlike yours.

It's not an indication that your opinion is the only viable one in the forum.
Or that you're so much more knowledgeable than everyone else...

Good thing I don't have rep points of my own.
But ultimately that's of no consequence to me.
Hell, up until now...I didn't even know where to find them.
That's how important they are to me.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:23 PM

and like I said about 5th-7th round picks...

They are just glorified UFA's...

Basically the same success rate...some 5th round picks on the Chiefs board are probably not even on half of the other draft boards NFL teams have...

After the 4th round teams just start taking 'their' guys and that's that...that's why all of the wannabe's on the web with their awesome little draft boards (walter football, anyone) have laughing stalk 4th-7th round mocks every year.

No one ever comes close.

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 02:23 PM

I'm making the argument that any time you can get a talented player (Ginn) that is young and has upside...for a 5th round pick...you do it.

What about Steve Breaston? He was a fifth round pick by Arizona and was quickly turned into a 1,000 yard receiver.

I'd take a player that plays 30-50 snaps a game over a player that's only involved in 7-10.

What is it that you don't get?

DaneMcCloud

04-14-2010, 02:24 PM

Three cherry-picked examples don't override 30 combined years of draft history.

The fact that a HORRIBLE drafting team like the Chiefs had as much luck - and in fact more, if you count Succop - as the COLTS AND STEELERS proves that 7th round picks are worthless.

And the fact you brought up Colston only further proves my point. He's the ONLY seventh round pick the Saints had in the last 10 years that was worth a shit.

So you're saying that they're worthless and have no value? No trade value, no player value, just flat out valueless?

JFC.

How successful would the Saints have been without Colston? Without Cassel, the Patriots don't get a 2nd round pick for him. Does this point need to be proven ad nauseam?

Titty Meat

04-14-2010, 02:25 PM

The Raiders got Chaz Schillens the in the seventh round too.

OnTheWarpath15

04-14-2010, 02:26 PM

Brandon Carr. 5th round pick.

CupidStunt

04-14-2010, 02:26 PM

Only a man of your stature could make virtual rep points seem like currency or something to be heralded as an accomplishment in life.
:shake:

ROFL

Micjones

04-14-2010, 02:26 PM

He wasn't fourth on Arizonas depth chart ROFL you continue to lie for these shitty players.

Tell me what 4 WR's were ahead of him...
Don't worry I'll wait.

You might wanna consult this depth chart before you shove your foot any further down your own throat. (http://www.nfl.com/teams/arizonacardinals/depthchart?team=ARI)

Chasing me around the forum isn't helping your reputation sir.
You might wanna put "talking what you know" at the top of your list of priorities.
He was the #4 WR on a team that is infinitely better at WR...
WHY can't he be a #3 or a #4 here in Kansas City?

Until you can answer that question...you might wanna run along.

Hammock Parties

04-14-2010, 02:27 PM

So you're saying that they're worthless and have no value? No trade value, no player value, just flat out valueless?

JFC.

How successful would the Saints have been without Colston? Without Cassel, the Patriots don't get a 2nd round pick for him. Does this point need to be proven ad nauseam?

They have enough value that giving up one for a solid kick returner isn't taking much of a risk.

30 combined years of draft history proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt. The odds of finding even a decent player in the 7th round are ASTRONOMICAL.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:27 PM

Both.

In Hootie's mind, the draft is irrelevant beyond round one.

When have I said that?

It's basically irrelevant past round 4...

Round 5 - Round 7 is a total crapshoot/lets take this guy because we think he might fit our system kind of thing...

Same thing you can do with undrafted free agents...

and to answer your question about Succop signing with us as an UDFA...

I'm willing to bet the chances would have been AT LEAST 50-60%...

But either way...he's a god damn kicker and any kicker that gets drafted SHOULD be a valuable player no matter if he gets drafted in the 5th or the last pick of the draft...

That was not a VALUE pick...as soon as he was drafted he had better win the kicker job...that was EXPECTED...punters and kickers are the only players that get picked in the 7th round that are expected to be starters or they are terrible picks.

And like I said...yeah, Cassel/Finnegan/Colston...great picks...yay. Welker/Romo/Cribbs/Miles Austin...

Etc. etc. etc.

THERE ARE ALWAYS ALL-PRO UNDRAFTED GUYS...but rarely every 5th-7th round picks...

that's because it's a HUGE crapshoot after round 4 and basically 200 guys all have similar grades...it's just a matter of who gets lucky and hears their name called...and who has to work a bit harder and make a team without having a draft pick label come next camp...

Titty Meat

04-14-2010, 02:28 PM

MicJones is saying Ubran was behind Morey on the dept chart dumbass. Fitzgerald, Boldin, Breaston, Doucet. Hey Mic are these medicore players sucking you off or something? Whats with all the man love?

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:29 PM

What about Steve Breaston? He was a fifth round pick by Arizona and was quickly turned into a 1,000 yard receiver.

I'd take a player that plays 30-50 snaps a game over a player that's only involved in 7-10.

What is it that you don't get?

Miles Austin...

UDFA

For every Breaston, there is 20 busts...

Would you rather have Breaston or Austin?

Anyone could have had Austin...and I bet had Austin went to Michigan and Breaston went to wherever the hell Austin went...Austin might have been the 5th rounder and Breaston might have been the UDFA guy...

5th round is a crapshoot...

You'll find just as much 5th round talent in the UDFA pool as you do in the 5th round...

After the 4th round...teams just start taking "their" guys and hoping for the best...

The VALUE in the draft is the top 100 picks.

OnTheWarpath15

04-14-2010, 02:30 PM

The entire draft is a crapshoot. There are busts in every round.

The difference is that the 3rd day picks (new format) don't kill you when you miss, but you can still get some damn solid talent in the later rounds.

I know it would have sucked to have drafted Brent Celek.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:30 PM

Brandon Carr. 5th round pick.

and I think Brandon Carr is marginal talent, at best...

MAYBE he projects as a decent #3 CB...but I think this is a position the Chiefs definitely need to upgrade sooner rather than later.

Solid 5th round pick, I'll give him that.

Marginal talent though.

Bill Lundberg

04-14-2010, 02:31 PM

FYP
Miles Austin...

For every Breaston, there is 20 Ted Ginns...

OnTheWarpath15

04-14-2010, 02:31 PM

and I think Brandon Carr is marginal talent, at best...

MAYBE he projects as a decent #3 CB...but I think this is a position the Chiefs definitely need to upgrade sooner rather than later.

Solid 5th round pick, I'll give him that.

Marginal talent though.

Ginn has upside, and Carr has marginal talent.

Wow.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:31 PM

I know it would have sucked to have drafted Brent Celek.

This is fun.

How about you point out all of the hits...and then I'll match it with 10 misses from that year and 3 UDFA's who had an equal, or close to equal match as your one hit.

Want to play?

Bowser

04-14-2010, 02:32 PM

When have I said that?

It's basically irrelevant past round 4...

Round 5 - Round 7 is a total crapshoot/lets take this guy because we think he might fit our system kind of thing...

Same thing you can do with undrafted free agents...

and to answer your question about Succop signing with us as an UDFA...

I'm willing to bet the chances would have been AT LEAST 50-60%...

But either way...he's a god damn kicker and any kicker that gets drafted SHOULD be a valuable player no matter if he gets drafted in the 5th or the last pick of the draft...

That was not a VALUE pick...as soon as he was drafted he had better win the kicker job...that was EXPECTED...punters and kickers are the only players that get picked in the 7th round that are expected to be starters or they are terrible picks.

And like I said...yeah, Cassel/Finnegan/Colston...great picks...yay. Welker/Romo/Cribbs/Miles Austin...

Etc. etc. etc.

THERE ARE ALWAYS ALL-PRO UNDRAFTED GUYS...but rarely every 5th-7th round picks...

that's because it's a HUGE crapshoot after round 4 and basically 200 guys all have similar grades...it's just a matter of who gets lucky and hears their name called...and who has to work a bit harder and make a team without having a draft pick label come next camp...

You can flip flop this argument, as well. There are guys that go high that bust out, but still get to get on the field because of the contract they had given to them. An owner doesn't want to shell out 10 mil+guaranteed on a guy just to see him ride pine, even if he is a useful as a turd in a punchbowl.

And just for the record, I'm with you in saying it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see us trade one of our fifths for Ginn, even if he would be used primarily as a returner. Problem is, who do you cut? Copper or Urban?

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:33 PM

Ginn has upside, and Carr has marginal talent.

Wow.

Yeah, that's right.

I'd take Ted Ginn over Brandon Carr every single day of the year.

Carr is an interchangeable piece to say the least...dude gets abused by every WR he faces...he's ok. He's decent. He's worth a roster spot. He works hard.

Marginal talent.

Ginn has more NFL upside than Brandon Carr...and it isn't even close.

Titty Meat

04-14-2010, 02:33 PM

Brandon Carr does sucks I wish we would qit defending him and Brodie Croyle.

Bowser

04-14-2010, 02:34 PM

and I think Brandon Carr is marginal talent, at best...

MAYBE he projects as a decent #3 CB...but I think this is a position the Chiefs definitely need to upgrade sooner rather than later.

Solid 5th round pick, I'll give him that.

Marginal talent though.OK, now you're just hurting yourself trying to defend your point. Brandon Carr has been a very good corner for us, especially paired with Flowers.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:34 PM

well every time Brandon Carr got abused last year Hamas just blamed it on Mike Brown and then told us we were all too casual of fans to understand...

Hamas/OTWP/Dane just know everything...that's why Hamas shed so many tears about our 6th round pick trade for Alleman/Ndukwe...and trading a 2010 7th for a 2009 7th and taking Jake O'Connell...

We could have drafted the next Tom Brady and Marques Colston with those picks for god's sake!

Titty Meat

04-14-2010, 02:35 PM

Yea Brandon Carr was great aginst Brandon Lloyd and Jabar Gaffney. He didn't even belong on the same field as Vincent Jackson.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:35 PM

OK, now you're just hurting yourself trying to defend your point. Brandon Carr has been a very good corner for us, especially paired with Flowers.

Well I guess you see one thing, and I see another...

If anything, Flowers has been solid (but not spectacular - even though some fans will lead you to believe he's all-pro)...and I think Flowers can be a pro bowler...he has that talent...but Carr has been marginal, at best...and someone that needs to be upgraded, no doubt in my mind.

He gave up 20 freaking catches to Jabar Gaffney.

Hammock Parties

04-14-2010, 02:36 PM

Yea Brandon Carr was great aginst Brandon Lloyd and Jabar Gaffney. He didn't even belong on the same field as Vincent Jackson.

You're wrong.

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=CB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

OnTheWarpath15

04-14-2010, 02:36 PM

Damn, the Eagles have done a decent job with recent 5th rounders.

Macho Harris, Brent Celek, Omar Gaither and Trent Cole in the past 5 years.

Titty Meat

04-14-2010, 02:36 PM

You're wrong.

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=CB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

Please the games are played on the field not paper. That shitty website had Willie Colon rated the third best tackle in the game. We all know that isn't true.

Bowser

04-14-2010, 02:37 PM

I'm not saying he's All-World or anything, but I'll keep him. Nobody remembers the good plays corners make, just the bad ones. I'm betting even Revis got beat on a play of four last year.

Hootie

04-14-2010, 02:37 PM

Damn, the Eagles have done a decent job with recent 5th rounders.

Macho Harris, Brent Celek, Omar Gaither and Trent Cole in the past 5 years.

well we need to hire whoever the fuck is flipping their quarters over there!

RedThat

04-14-2010, 02:38 PM

Why Hootie? Was he NOT a 7th round pick? If the Chiefs hadn't selected him, what were the odds that he'd sign with KC as an UDFA?

Furthermore, I've provided more examples in Cassel and Colston. Whether you believe it to be true or not is not important but the fact remains that 7th round picks DO have value.

Well, here is my take, I'd like to base it on history, most of the time late round picks either don't work out or are expected to be projects.

Don't get me wrong though, there were some 6th, 7th round picks that have proven to be gems..i.e., Tom Brady, Marques Colston, Donald Driver, etc. But the success rate of landing a good player that late in the draft is small.

Late round picks can have value. But what type of value? Since the success rate is very small to land a starter that late in the draft, it is not exactly the rounds teams depend on to find an instant starter. Potential starter for the future though? Possibly. Id like to call those guys projects. I suppose a late rounder could serve as good value to either provide your team with good depth or to bring a guy in slowly along the way. Thus, developing a project. Which is what a lot of teams do. If that project works out for the best of the team, one can say that draft pick had value. It all depends. How one views value imo.