San Fran trades up to 5

[Ralphy Boy]

I've been thinking, ever since Scot McCloughan resigned as GM last month, that they might take a QB in the first, but aren't going to want to give up a fortune to get him. Of course they say they are happy with Smith, but Singletary didn't draft him. McCloughan was VP of Player Personnel under Nolan when they drafted Smith in their first year together.

They certainly won't want to give up both first rounders to get there. So we get their #13 pick (1150 pts), #49 (410) & #114 (66) and a 2011 3rd rounder. Don't think for a second that Pioli wouldn't like to accumulate picks in next years draft now.

The draft goes:
1 Bradford
2 Suh
3 McCoy
4 Okung
5 Clausen
6 Trent Williams
7 Berry
8 JPP
9 Dan Williams
10 Morgan
11 McClain
12 Thomas
13 ??

Who do you take?

Haden, Bryant, Graham, Kindle, Weatherspoon, Bulaga, Davis?
Someone else?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Someone, please make it stop.

[jjchieffan]

If it fell that way, Weatherspoon, without a doubt.

[Ebolapox]

I slam my head against the wall so hard that my skull is cracked, and I'm finally relieved from my fandom of this team by death.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I slam my head against the wall so hard that my skull is cracked, and I'm finally relieved from my fandom of this team by death.

Seriously.

These trade scenarios are just fucking stupid.

[Ralphy Boy]

Someone, please make it stop.

Because you think its unrealistic? Do you remember Junior Siavii?

Do you really think we are going to draft someone at 5 that will make you happy????????

I basically tried to paint a worst case scenario with the players most of us really want being gone.

We'd have picks:
13, 36, 49, 50, 69, 103, 113, 137, 143 & 145.

I like having 3 second round picks & 2 4ths in THIS draft.

Weatherspoon & Graham aren't considered the best options by most boards, but they are the two I'd prefer. Dez Bryant would be a huge value according to most experts, but I couldn't see it happening. Given Pioli's reluctance regarding 1st round O-lineman, I can't see any of those either.

I love Spiller, but with Charles & Jones, I can't see it. Kindle is behind Graham in my book.

[Ralphy Boy]

Seriously.

These trade scenarios are just ****ing stupid.

Since you clearly have something better to do, why don't you just not post then? Seriously.

[Ebolapox]

hey ralphy, I got a trade scenario for ya:

our fifth overall pick to the vikings for:

30th overall pick, 2017 first round pick, 2013 threeve round pick (there will be a threevth' round by then), a baby bottle full of haitian breast milk, a throwback jersey of billy cannon from the old houston oilers, a rubber band worn by billy corgan, a guitar pick from alter bridge, a genuine elvis piece of toast (butter not included), a pair of jared allen's underwear (from his famous 'sack streak' (har har)), and a trip to brett favre's farm...

sounds like a winner to me.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Because you think its unrealistic? Do you remember Junior Siavii?

Incredibly unrealistic.

First, I don't see the Niners giving up every valuable pick they have but one to move up for anyone.

Second, if Scott Pioli did this, he deserves to be fucking fired.

If you're moving out of the Top 5 into the teens, you better be getting more than a R2 and R3.

You're passing on elite talent to save some cash.

Retarded.

[MoreLemonPledge]

It would never happen, but I'd take Haden. Even though it's not a position of need, he's the BPA and would likely make half of the best young CB duo in the NFL for many years. In fact, I wouldn't be too upset if they took him at #5 (which also will never happen).

[Mecca]

Wow that's awful, that's a "we don't wanna pay any money" trade.

[Ebolapox]

come on, man. tell me you don't want that billy corgan rubber band! alter bridge guitar pick? PURE GOLD.

[Ralphy Boy]

It happens.
If Pioli doesn't intend to take Berry or Clausen, he'll try to trade down.

2008 there were 8 trades in the first round.
Key moves:
Pioli's Pats traded back 3 spots from 7 to 10.
Baltimore traded back from 8 to 26 and then up to 18 to get Flacco.
After picking at 13, the Panthers traded up to 19 to get Otah giving up their 2nd and 2009 1st.

Don't act like this shit doesn't happen.

[MoreLemonPledge]

Singletary may not be particularly fond of Alex Smith, but if he has any say in the draft, they'll go defense.

[KCrockaholic]

I really don't like this thread title......

But I think you have to go Spiller or Haden IMO. The addition of Spiller would be like Percy Harvin, but a 180'. Harvin is 70% WR, 30% HB. Spiller is opposite.

[Mecca]

CJ Spiller is not going to fall that far, I don't think he makes it past 10, someone will come up for him if he's still there by then.

[Reaper16]

BPA by far is CJ Spiller.
I wouldn't throw rocks at the selections of Witherspoon, Graham or Haden either.

[KcKing]

They certainly won't want to give up both first rounders to get there

That's why they won't...

That said, if I was in that position, i'd probably end up hating myself for making that trade to begin with, and trying to trade down again to a Spiller hungry team.

[</post>]

If we do trade down, Pioli will prob do it in the second round.

[BossChief]

I would take Graham in a second.

He would help our pass rush situation as well as our run defense.

I think he is very underrated on here and has a chance to be a all pro caliber player as a 3-4 olb.

[Chiefshrink]

It happens.
If Pioli doesn't intend to take Berry or Clausen, he'll try to trade down.

2008 there were 8 trades in the first round.
Key moves:
Pioli's Pats traded back 3 spots from 7 to 10.
Baltimore traded back from 8 to 26 and then up to 18 to get Flacco.
After picking at 13, the Panthers traded up to 19 to get Otah giving up their 2nd and 2009 1st.

Don't act like this shit doesn't happen.

:thumb::thumb:Agree and this year I predict their will be more manuevering in the 1st rd than 2008.

[DaneMcCloud]

It happens.
If Pioli doesn't intend to take Berry or Clausen, he'll try to trade down.



Bullshit.

If Pioli was willing to trade down, he would have done it last year instead of taking TYSON FUCKING JACKSON WITH THE #3 OVERALL.

PLEASE, stop with the nonsensical trades and mocks.

[LaChapelle]

It's the high pollen count

and eyes saturated with game film

I hear tattoo faintly hollering

[AustinChief]

Incredibly unrealistic.

First, I don't see the Niners giving up every valuable pick they have but one to move up for anyone.

Second, if Scott Pioli did this, he deserves to be fucking fired.

If you're moving out of the Top 5 into the teens, you better be getting more than a R2 and R3.

You're passing on elite talent to save some cash.

Retarded.
Are you insane? I would take this in a heartbeat. Graham or even better Thomas AND two more quality picks... yes I would hate passing on Berry... but for a 2nd, 3rd and Thomas (or Graham)... NO BRAINER. WHAT fuckin elite talent would we be passing on??? Berry? Clausen? Seriously do you see us takin anyone else but a reach? Yes Berry is elite... MAYBE Clausen is as well... but I honestly think we could get more OVERALL value with this trade... (not saying we WOULD but we COULD)

BUT I also agree SF won't make this trade...

[The Bad Guy]

So Pioli wants to accumulate picks for next year when next year's draft isn't nearly as deep as this one? Sound reasoning.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Someone, please make it stop.

:clap:

[Coogs]

Are you insane? I would take this in a heartbeat. Graham or even better Thomas AND two more quality picks... yes I would hate passing on Berry... but for a 2nd, 3rd and Thomas (or Graham)... NO BRAINER. WHAT fuckin elite talent would we be passing on??? Berry? Clausen? Seriously do you see us takin anyone else but a reach? Yes Berry is elite... MAYBE Clausen is as well... but I honestly think we could get more OVERALL value with this trade... (not saying we WOULD but we COULD)

BUT I also agree SF won't make this trade...

But Philidelphia might. They have 11 picks in the draft. I could see them packaging #24, #37, and #70 for Berry. 1540 points out of those 3 picks.

[Mr. Laz]

Seriously.

These trade scenarios are just fucking stupid.It said TRADE in the thread title.

[Ralphy Boy]

Bullshit.

If Pioli was willing to trade down, he would have done it last year instead of taking TYSON ****ING JACKSON WITH THE #3 OVERALL.

PLEASE, stop with the nonsensical trades and mocks.

Have you completely missed any and every conversation that took place regarding Pioli's inability to trade out of the 3 spot last year?

I'd have never thought that we'd trade out of the first round to take Siavii, but "nonsensical trades" happen all the time.

So Pioli wants to accumulate picks for next year when next year's draft isn't nearly as deep as this one? Sound reasoning.

Did you not see the part where we added a 2nd round pick in THIS DRAFT?

Yes, he'd love to get picks in next years draft as well. They did this multiple times in New England.

[Mr. Laz]

i would try and trade down again and get another 2nd because i don't think there are significant talent differences after the first couple of guys all the way through pick 40 or so

if you aren't getting Clausen or Berry you might as well accumulate 2nd round picks.

[Ralphy Boy]

CJ Spiller is not going to fall that far, I don't think he makes it past 10, someone will come up for him if he's still there by then.

Its not a knock on Spiller, I said several months ago that I thought he would end up being in the top 5 and I said a week or so ago that in 3 years I thought he'd be the best RB in the league.

He won't make it in the top 5 this year, because of team needs, but he's an elite talent who I could see going in the range of 9-13.

Part of the reason I posed it was because I wanted to see how many would take him.

I think the Browns are more likely to take Berry over Spiller.
Raiders just drafted McFadden, Denver just took Moreno.

Buffalo & Miami are probably 50/50 on Spiller.
Miami has Brown & Williams so he may or may not go there.
Bills would seem most likely.

[Ralphy Boy]

i would try and trade down again and get another 2nd because i don't think there are significant talent differences after the first couple of guys all the way through pick 40 or so

if you aren't getting Clausen or Berry you might as well accumulate 2nd round picks.

I think Graham is much better than he's getting credit for by mockers and I think he could go anywhere from pick 12-18.
He doesn't have the size Parcells wants, but Nolan saw firsthand how well Dumervil did for him.
San Fran very well could take him at 13 or 17 and Pittsburgh at 18.

[The Franchise]

If I'm trading down from 5.....then I want both of their 1st rounders. If they aren't included....no deal.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

It's silly to me that Spiller has no votes. To me, it would have to be Spiller or Haden just from a BPA perspective. I took Haden because while he may not be BPA over Spiller, he's close enough that I would fill the need. We may not need a CB, but we could use one over another RB. We have a good combo in that regard.

[The Franchise]

Oh...and it's Haden in a second. Flowers and Haden would be a great fucking CB tandem.

[Coogs]

if you aren't getting Clausen or Berry you might as well accumulate 2nd round picks.

Absolutely.

[Ralphy Boy]

If I'm trading down from 5.....then I want both of their 1st rounders. If they aren't included....no deal.

Since a draft value chart and simple math appear to not be available to you:
Pick #, Value

SF
13=1150
17=950
Total 2100

KC
5=1700
50=400
Total 2100

Your willing to give up our 2b to get their 1b?

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Oh...and it's Haden in a second. Flowers and Haden would be a great fucking CB tandem.

Holy Christ. With Carr in the nickel slot? Jesus. We'd be in real good shape. It's a luxury we can't afford at this point, but if the situation was like this, I'd be all over it.

I'm with you though, no way I trade down unless I'm getting both of their 1sts.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Since a draft value chart and simple math appear to not be available to you:
Pick #, Value

SF
13=1150
17=950
Total 2100

KC
5=1700
50=400
Total 2100

Your willing to give up our 2b to get their 1b?

Of course.

[CoMoChief]

Brandon Graham.

[The Franchise]

Since a draft value chart and simple math appear to not be available to you:
Pick #, Value

SF
13=1150
17=950
Total 2100

KC
5=1700
50=400
Total 2100

Your willing to give up our 2b to get their 1b?

Ummm yeah. Are you stupid?

[Ralphy Boy]

I really like Haden, but we have absolutely no pass rush. Graham had 10.5 as a senior and 26 tackles for loss.

I'd really like to have the extra picks in rounds 2 & 4, there is some very good talent to be had there.
Best case for us IMO
13 Graham, OLB
36 Tate, WR
49 Nate Allen, FS
50 Cam Thomas, NT
69 Sean Lee, ILB
103 Kam Chancellor, SS
114 Clay Harbor, TE
137 Tony Washington, T - lots of teams are high on him as an eventual starter at LT, so he'd be a good insurance policy on Albert.
143 Eric Olsen, C
145 Jamar Chaney, ILB
and a 2011 3rd rounder

I could easily see the first 5 or 6 of those picks starting this year.

I'd even consider trading back up into the 6th round to get Danario Alexander.

[Ralphy Boy]

Ummm yeah. Are you as stupid as me?

FYP and no.

As a fan its easy to say that you wouldn't make the trade unless you get both of their #1's, but I don't think any team would ever trade away both of theirs.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I really like Haden, but we have absolutely no pass rush. Graham had 10.5 as a senior and 26 tackles for loss.

I'd really like to have the extra picks in rounds 2 & 4, there is some very good talent to be had there.
Best case for us IMO
13 Graham, OLB
36 Tate, WR
49 Nate Allen, FS
50 Cam Thomas, NT
69 Sean Lee, ILB
103 Kam Chancellor, SS
114 Clay Harbor, TE
137 Tony Washington, T - lots of teams are high on him as an eventual starter at LT, so he'd be a good insurance policy on Albert.
143 Eric Olsen, C
145 Jamar Chaney, ILB
and a 2011 3rd rounder

I could easily see the first 5 or 6 of those picks starting this year.

I'd even consider trading back up into the 6th round to get Danario Alexander.

I like that draft.

[Chiefnj2]

I really like Haden, but we have absolutely no pass rush. Graham had 10.5 as a senior and 26 tackles for loss.

.

As much as I agree that KC needs a pass rush, I just have a gut feeling that Pioli and Haley may feel the rush is okay - Hali got decent pressure for his first year in the system, they brought old man Vrabel back again and in a few games Studebaker showed some glimpses.

If the team goes to a more "needs" based draft I'm not sure they go with OLB.

[Ralphy Boy]

As much as I agree that KC needs a pass rush, I just have a gut feeling that Pioli and Haley may feel the rush is okay - Hali got decent pressure for his first year in the system, they brought old man Vrabel back again and in a few games Studebaker showed some glimpses.

If the team goes to a more "needs" based draft I'm not sure they go with OLB.

The Pats had 41 sacks in 2001, 41 in 2003, 45 in 2004 and 47 in 2007.
40+ sacks in each year that they went to a Superbowl.

We had 22 in 2009.

In years they didn't make the Superbowl:
2002 34, 2005 33, 2006 44, 2008 31 & 2009 31

Only in 2006 did they have 40+ and not make the Superbowl, losing in the AFC Championship to the Colts 34 to 38. The only AFC Championship game they lost under BB.

As far as a "need", outside of stopping the run, our greatest "need" is to get to the QB.

Something tells me that Pioli is well aware that we need to get more pressure on QB's.

FWIW, I'm not expecting miracles under Romeo.
Sack total of Romeo's teams in Cleveland:
2005 23, 2006 28, 2007 28, 2008 17

Totals before Romeo arrived & after he left
2004 32, 2009 40

They were better before he arrived and after he left in getting to the QB. Yes, I know that Romeo wasn't the DC and that he fired Todd Grantham and replaced him with Mel Tucker. Either way, as with BB, you expect a team to be able to compete on the basis of the respective coaches strong suit. Just as I would expect us to get better under Haley on offense every year.

Run defense rank for Romeo's teams:
2005 16th, 2006 27th, 2007 30th, 2008 26th

Totals before Romeo arrived & after he left
2004 15th, 2009 31st

Its probably not a very good thing that they got worse practically every year he was there. Hopefully he was just "hands off"; trying to let his DC be a DC. He damn well better show that he was not a BB puppet this year and we'd better get much better this year.

[DaneMcCloud]

Have you completely missed any and every conversation that took place regarding Pioli's inability to trade out of the 3 spot last year?

What the FUCK are you talking about?

Last year, I expected Pioli to take any offer to trade out of the # hole. ANY offer.

He took Tyson Jackson.

For a guy that admittedly doesn't believe in value or slotting talent in particular rounds, that tells me that Pioli had NO intention of trading, nor did he even ATTEMPT to trade.

You're smoking crack if you think the 49ers will trade into the #5 spot.

[Ralphy Boy]

What the **** are you talking about?

Last year, I expected Pioli to take any offer to trade out of the # hole. ANY offer.

He took Tyson Jackson.

For a guy that admittedly doesn't believe in value or slotting talent in particular rounds, that tells me that Pioli had NO intention of trading, nor did he even ATTEMPT to trade.

You're smoking crack if you think the 49ers will trade into the #5 spot.

You really are a complete prick.

Its been discussed on here more than once that Pioli tried to trade down, I don't care to look it up for you.

I've said repeatedly that he should have taken whatever offer was on the table, rather than staying put and taking TJ. Even pulling a Vikings and just letting their pick pass would have been better than taking him at 3. Pioli didn't get a good enough offer for the pick so he took the guy he wanted.

I don't care to debate the trade up from 13 to 5. It happens and it could happen. Is it likely? FUCK NO. Its a trade scenario on a site full of guys who talk about the draft 24/7.

Get a life and don't act like I just called your mother a whore, simply because I suggested it.

[KCChiefsMan]

what kind of bullshit poll is this?

[Ming the Merciless]

Incredibly unrealistic.

First, I don't see the Niners giving up every valuable pick they have but one to move up for anyone.

Second, if Scott Pioli did this, he deserves to be ****ing fired.

Retarded.

I see...So this is a horrible deal for the Niners because theyre giving too much but it is horrible for the Chiefs because they're not getting enough?

Fucking idiot homer

[ForeverChiefs58]

I say it would be better to get both 49ers 1st. Rape them more by also getting 2nd. THEN the fans will love you instead of hate you!

[ForeverChiefs58]

if they want their franchise QB bad enough then they will pay for it. But THEY have to WANT to trade up to get him.

[Ralphy Boy]

I say it would be better to get both 49ers 1st. Rape them more by also getting 2nd. THEN the fans will love you instead of hate you!

if they want their franchise QB bad enough then they will pay for it. But THEY have to WANT to trade up to get him.

You can price yourself out of a trade. If we are going to trade down or take a player who isn't worthy of the 5 pick, I believe you should get whatever compensation you can. What good does it do your team to draft a player higher than he needs to be? Would you have said the same thing last year after we drafted TJ?

If you'd prefer another top 5 pick that makes you yell at your television set because he was such a reach, then sure, you could take the stance that you need to ass rape the team your trading with and most likely you'll end up stuck at the pick you earned from sucking balls and have to overpay a guy at a position of need that is ranked 5-10 spots below your pick.

[DBOSHO]

People need to get over haden.

I get that hes a great player, but with all the holes on this team, cb is the very last place we need to spend a 1st round pick on.

[melbar]

I went Haden, but supprised there isnt more love for Kindle. Has some off field stuff, but has the potential to be an elite pass rusher.

[Chiefs4ever25]

Because you think its unrealistic? Do you remember Junior Siavii?

Do you really think we are going to draft someone at 5 that will make you happy????????

I basically tried to paint a worst case scenario with the players most of us really want being gone.

We'd have picks:
13, 36, 49, 50, 69, 103, 113, 137, 143 & 145.

I like having 3 second round picks & 2 4ths in THIS draft.

Weatherspoon & Graham aren't considered the best options by most boards, but they are the two I'd prefer. Dez Bryant would be a huge value according to most experts, but I couldn't see it happening. Given Pioli's reluctance regarding 1st round O-lineman, I can't see any of those either.

I love Spiller, but with Charles & Jones, I can't see it. Kindle is behind Graham in my book.

there is no way that we wont get both of their 1st round picks. if you dont well fml Scott Pioli...:banghead:

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

This is SERIAL!

[Ralphy Boy]

there is no way that we wont get both of their 1st round picks. if you dont well fml Scott Pioli...:banghead:

I don't know how often a team actually gives up both of their first rounders, but I don't think it happens very often.