What is so special about Clausen?

[Mr. Laz]

ok ... so alot of us are looking at Clausen. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Clausen but imo should we be looking at a special guy.

let's face it, the drafturbators just want a big named QB and they don't really give a shit whether the guy is really any good. They have lost their dam minds.

But ... what about the rest of us with a little bit of rationality left in our heads.

Is there anything Elite about Jimmy Clausen? Is he really worth the #5 pick?

Bradford - Elite Accuracy, superior football I.Q., NFL Size
Tebow - elite character, great athletic skills,great motivation
Clausen - ??
McCoy - ??


so let's hear it ... what is ELITE about Jimmy Clausen?

[DeezNutz]

His understanding, approach, and preparation level are all elite.

His physical attributes are all above average.

[Hammock Parties]

Accuracy by all accounts is special.

[DeezNutz]

If we're going to call Bradford's accuracy "elite," it's absolutely appropriate to make the same claim about Clausen's.

[chiefzilla1501]

ok ... so alot of us are looking at Clausen. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Clausen but imo should we be looking at a special guy.

let's face it, the drafturbators just want a big named QB and they don't really give a shit whether the guy is really any good. They have lost their dam minds.

But ... what about the rest of us with a little bit of rationality left in our heads.

Is there anything Elite about Jimmy Clausen? Is he really worth the #5 pick?

Bradford - Elite Accuracy, superior football I.Q., NFL Size
Tebow - elite character, great athletic skills,great motivation
Clausen - ??
McCoy - ??


so let's hear it ... what is ELITE about Jimmy Clausen?

I think the issue is moreso why a lot of critics are criticizing character, when character has never really been an issue in his career. In fact, I've heard that in terms of psychological testing, he tested extremely well. So those who say he's the next Ryan Leaf are talking out of their ass.

[Mr. Laz]

If we're going to call Bradford's accuracy "elite," it's absolutely appropriate to make the same claim about Clausen's.
really ... you think Clausen is as accurate as Bradford?

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Clausen has elite accuracy and touch on his passes. Now, some would say Bradford has elite accuracy as well. But Clausen also has what no other qb has in this class; an elite level of pro style experience and know how on running an NFL style offense.

While I was higher on Sanchez because of Mark's upside, Jimmy is a better prospect right now, today. Potential doesn't mean shit until it's realized.

I'm convinced that Jimmy will be the super star quarterback out of this class.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Clausen's "character" issues are media driven only. There is absolutely no evidence that it's accurate at all.

[Hammock Parties]

If we're going to call Bradford's accuracy "elite," it's absolutely appropriate to make the same claim about Clausen's.

Yup. Almost identical completion percentages at their best, and Clausen doesn't play in the spread.

[DeezNutz]

really ... you think Clausen is as accurate as Bradford?

I think they're comparable.

Bradford's skill set is largely underrated on this board, but I have a real hard time defining his accuracy as "elite" because we don't know how it will translate when he is consistently throwing into extremely tight windows.

And I agree with others in this thread that the media is casting a long negative shadow over all things Clausen, at the moment.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think they're comparable.

Bradford's skill set is largely underrated on this board, but I have a real hard time defining his accuracy as "elite" because we don't know how it will translate when he is consistently throwing into extremely tight windows.

Or making those throws when he's under pressure.

[Mr. Laz]

Clausen also has what no other qb has in this class; an elite level of pro style experience and know how on running an NFL style offense.

yea ... but knowing a pro style offense is really just a head start, isn't it?

eventually that will even out unless Bradford,Tebow,McCoy have some inability to learn.

[DeezNutz]

Or making those throws when he's under pressure.

Absolutely.

And when Bradford has been under duress in his college career, the results have been underwhelming.

Grain of salt, of course, since pressure negatively affects all QBs.

[OnTheWarpath15]

yea ... but knowing a pro style offense is really just a head start, isn't it?

eventually that will even out unless Bradford,Tebow,McCoy have some inability to learn.

That must mean that generally, college spread QB's are stupid.

It has only "evened out" for two spread QB's in the history of the league.

[DeezNutz]

yea ... but knowing a pro style offense is really just a head start, isn't it?

eventually that will even out unless Bradford,Tebow,McCoy have some inability to learn.

A head start from a place that some never have the capability of reaching, so I have a hard time defining it as such.

Being able to operate from a pro-set isn't a given or a natural progression.

[chiefzilla1501]

yea ... but knowing a pro style offense is really just a head start, isn't it?

eventually that will even out unless Bradford,Tebow,McCoy have some inability to learn.

It's not just a head start. It's proof that they can do it.

It's like this... if I'm hiring a sales manager, I probably want proof that he's good at Sales. I can take the guy with a proven track strong record of sales. Or I can take the guy who on a very small chance might be better, but quite possibly was never meant for sales in the first place.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

yea ... but knowing a pro style offense is really just a head start, isn't it?

eventually that will even out unless Bradford,Tebow,McCoy have some inability to learn.

That must mean that generally, college spread QB's are stupid.

It has only "evened out" for two spread QB's in the history of the league.

A head start from a place that some never have the capability of reaching, so I have a hard time defining it as such.

Being able to operate from a pro-set isn't a given or a natural progression.

It's not just a head start. It's proof that they can do it.

It's like this... if I'm hiring a sales manager, I probably want proof that he's good at Sales. I can take the guy with a proven track strong record of sales. Or I can take the guy who on a very small chance might be better, but quite possibly was never meant for sales in the first place.

These guys beat me to it, but yeah. A lot of spread QB's drafted have been unable to make the transition. So you don't know if Bradford is that guy or not.

With Clausen, there's plenty of game tape already that show you the strengths and weaknesses inside the pro style offense.

[chiefzilla1501]

That must mean that generally, college spread QB's are stupid.

It has only "evened out" for two spread QB's in the history of the league.

Yeah, but keep in mind that those two spread QBs (I'm assuming you're talking about Brees and Roethlisberger) are Super Bowl QBs. And I think in general teams are tentative to take the chance on a spread QB and they're not given the same kind of chances. I think the fact that the NFL is so high on Tebow and Bradford indicates to me that teams are willing to start taking the chance again on spread QBs, as long as they're mindful that it's going to take some development time.

So if I'm comparing a high upside spread QB against an average upside pro style QB, than I think teams are going to start taking the chance on the former. If you're talking about a high upside QB like Clausen, that's a different story.

[DeezNutz]

We're going to need a QB in 2011, so it's a fact that we're reaching a cross-roads.

If the Chiefs don't draft Clausen, I have a hard time seeing the current regime ever using a first-round pick on the position.

There is simply not a better potential fit for the team.

[Mr. Laz]

A head start from a place that some never have the capability of reaching, so I have a hard time defining it as such.

Being able to operate from a pro-set isn't a given or a natural progression.
fair enough

i mean i have watch quite a bit of Clausen play and it's generally a positive experience. But the more i watch, the more i wonder where the "wow" factor is.

Clausen is not uber accurate and doesn't have great arm strength. He doesn't seem to be a particularly charismatic leader. He's not a big scrambler or really athletic.

now having said all that, Clausen just seems to "do his job" which is vastly underrated skill imo.


But do you take a workmanlike Quarterback in the 1st round?

[Mr. Flopnuts]

We're going to need a QB in 2011, so it's a fact that we're reaching a cross-roads.

If the Chiefs don't draft Clausen, I have a hard time they will ever use a first-round pick on the position.

There is simply not a better potential fit for the team.

That's pretty much where I'm at. If you're afraid of drafting a guy that has been running your offense in college, when do you pull that trigger?

I wanted Locker bad. But I realized that if they don't draft Clausen, why in the hell would they draft Locker?

We pass on Jimmy, and you can bet the house Pioli will NEVER draft a franchise QB, unless lightning strikes twice and he finds the next Tom Brady in the 6th round.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

fair enough

i mean i have watch quite a bit of Clausen play and it's generally a positive experience. But the more i watch, the more i wonder where the "wow" factor is.

Clausen is not uber accurate and doesn't have great arm strength. He doesn't seem to be a particularly charismatic leader. He's not a big scrambler or really athletic.

now having said all that, Clausen just seems to "do his job" which is vastly underrated skill imo.


But do you take a workmanlike Quarterback in the 1st round?

Well, I've been pimping Clausen for a while now, but his mobility is something that bothers me. I wish he could scramble to at least SOME degree. But, I don't think it will hinder his ability to win Super Bowls. :D

[OnTheWarpath15]

We're going to need a QB in 2011, so it's a fact that we're reaching a cross-roads.

If the Chiefs don't draft Clausen, I have a hard time seeing the current regime ever using a first-round pick on the position.

There is simply not a better potential fit for the team.

I agree.

They won't take him, which leads me to believe they never will take a QB - they'll just keep hoping to win the lottery with a late pick like they did with Brady.

I've already started removing all breakables from my "viewing area", because I fully expect them to pass on the two players that could completely change the future of this franchise for the positive.

God, I hope I'm wrong.

[chiefzilla1501]

Well, I've been pimping Clausen for a while now, but his mobility is something that bothers me. I wish he could scramble to at least SOME degree. But, I don't think it will hinder his ability to win Super Bowls. :D

There's some developmental things you worry about. I think he very often holds on to the ball too long and his pocket presence is shaky--when he smells pressure, he doesn't seem to slide around the pocket. Instead, he seems to scramble out and throw on the run.

But yeah, I like Clausen too. I think those two things will come with experience. And those flaws aren't nearly as pronounced as Sanchez's--I still think those are major flaws in Sanchez's game.

[Chiefnj2]

If Clausen is as good as people on the Planet thinks he is, he would be ranked above Bradford- a spread QB who missed most of the past season with a shoulder injury.

[OnTheWarpath15]

If Clausen is as good as people on the Planet thinks he is, he would be ranked above Bradford- a spread QB who missed most of the past season with a shoulder injury.

Yeah, because pro personnel people are NEVER wrong.

According to all these "draft experts", Alex Smith was a better prospect than Aaron Rodgers.

Whoops.

[the Talking Can]

Clausen does everything Bradford does, but does it from a pro-style offense (which is more difficult) and without an OL littered with nfl players (which is more difficult) and with a toe that was injured all season (which is more difficult) and with no defense to bail him out (which is more difficult) and oh yeah was personally groomed by a superbowl winning offensive coordinator (which is a huge plus) and hasn't had his shoulder blown out twice (another huge plus)....


but, other than that, he sucks and is too risky and we should pass and wait another 25 years for a QB, a superbowl, and a magical candy shitting pony to appear....

[DeezNutz]

If Clausen is as good as people on the Planet thinks he is, he would be ranked above Bradford- a spread QB who missed most of the past season with a shoulder injury.

"The only people who think Sanchez is worth a top-5 pick are posters on CP." /'09

[DeezNutz]

Clausen does everything Bradford does, but does it from a pro-style offense (which is more difficult) and without an OL littered with nfl players (which is more difficult) and with a toe that was injured all season (which is more difficult) and with no defense to bail him out (which is more difficult) and oh yeah was personally groomed by a superbowl winning offensive coordinator (which is a huge plus) and hasn't had his shoulder blown out twice (another huge plus)....


but, other than that, he sucks and is too risky and we should pass and wait another 25 years for a QB, a superbowl, and a magical candy shitting pony to appear....

LMAO.

I don't like risk. But I love magical shit candy. /Dayton Pioli

[chiefzilla1501]

Yeah, because pro personnel people are NEVER wrong.

According to all these "draft experts", Alex Smith was a better prospect than Aaron Rodgers.

Whoops.

I'm a Clausen backer, but chiefnj2 brings up more than a good point.

Do scouts make mistakes? Of course. But let's not pretend that we know nearly as much about evaluating players as these personnel guys do. If personnel guys seem to be putting Bradford on their board above Clausen, I'm inclined to agree with chiefnj2 that he's a much better prospect.

[notorious]

He represents hope in a position that his currently hopeless.

[DeezNutz]

I'm a Clausen backer, but chiefnj2 brings up more than a good point.

Do scouts make mistakes? Of course. But let's not pretend that we know nearly as much about evaluating players as these personnel guys do. If personnel guys seem to be putting Bradford on their board above Clausen, I'm inclined to agree with chiefnj2 that he's a much better prospect.

What personnel guys? The ones in St. Louis? Maybe Washington?

Do we have a large enough sample size to make any statements?

[Tribal Warfare]

The biggest positives of Clausen are his accuracy and his cold blooded composure during crunchtime.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Clausen does everything Bradford does, but does it from a pro-style offense (which is more difficult) and without an OL littered with nfl players (which is more difficult) and with a toe that was injured all season (which is more difficult) and with no defense to bail him out (which is more difficult) and oh yeah was personally groomed by a superbowl winning offensive coordinator (which is a huge plus) and hasn't had his shoulder blown out twice (another huge plus)....


but, other than that, he sucks and is too risky and we should pass and wait another 25 years for a QB, a superbowl, and a magical candy shitting pony to appear....

LMAO

[chiefzilla1501]

What personnel guys? The ones in St. Louis? Maybe Washington?

Do we have a large enough sample size to make any statements?

No, the sample size isn't that big. I would also include draft "gurus"--while I think most of them are morons in terms of understanding team needs, I think that quite a few of them do their homework on players--talking to coaches, watching a ton of tape, doing a lot of work that scouts do. It's one thing when one guy says it. Quite another when virtually the entire country is saying it.

I'm not saying that we're wrong or that these guys are always right. Just saying that it's sort of ridiculous to think that we have better information to make these kinds of decisions than a team like the Rams, who have highly paid scouts and access to a ton of information that most of the public doesn't have.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

How does a guy who has never read a defense automatically have an elite football IQ?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

No, the sample size isn't that big. I would also include draft "gurus"--while I think most of them are morons in terms of understanding team needs, I think that quite a few of them do their homework on players--talking to coaches, watching a ton of tape, doing a lot of work that scouts do. It's one thing when one guy says it. Quite another when virtually the entire country is saying it.

I'm not saying that we're wrong or that these guys are always right. Just saying that it's sort of ridiculous to think that we have better information to make these kinds of decisions than a team like the Rams, who have highly paid scouts and access to a ton of information that most of the public doesn't have.

The Rams might be the worst example you could have come up with. They picked #2 overall two straight years, and both of those picks are looking like they may be whiffs.

[Hammock Parties]

Clausen does everything Bradford does, but does it from a pro-style offense (which is more difficult) and without an OL littered with nfl players (which is more difficult) and with a toe that was injured all season (which is more difficult) and with no defense to bail him out (which is more difficult) and oh yeah was personally groomed by a superbowl winning offensive coordinator (which is a huge plus) and hasn't had his shoulder blown out twice (another huge plus)....


but, other than that, he sucks and is too risky and we should pass and wait another 25 years for a QB, a superbowl, and a magical candy shitting pony to appear....

Arrrrrrrrrrrgh.

This situation is so perfect, chances like this don't come along often. You just know they're gonna blow it.

Cassel needs to go hiking or something and get attacked by a puma. Force their hand.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

ok ... so alot of us are looking at Clausen. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Clausen but imo should we be looking at a special guy.

let's face it, the drafturbators just want a big named QB and they don't really give a shit whether the guy is really any good. They have lost their dam minds.

But ... what about the rest of us with a little bit of rationality left in our heads.

Is there anything Elite about Jimmy Clausen? Is he really worth the #5 pick?

Bradford - Elite Accuracy, superior football I.Q., NFL Size
Tebow - elite character, great athletic skills,great motivation
Clausen - ??
McCoy - ??


so let's hear it ... what is ELITE about Jimmy Clausen?

Yup, we just want a big named guy. That's why we're all over Tim Tebow...biggest name in college FB history and it shows through the support that we have for him on this forum.

Your logic is impeccable.

[Blick]

No, the sample size isn't that big. I would also include draft "gurus"--while I think most of them are morons in terms of understanding team needs, I think that quite a few of them do their homework on players--talking to coaches, watching a ton of tape, doing a lot of work that scouts do. It's one thing when one guy says it. Quite another when virtually the entire country is saying it.

I'm not saying that we're wrong or that these guys are always right. Just saying that it's sort of ridiculous to think that we have better information to make these kinds of decisions than a team like the Rams, who have highly paid scouts and access to a ton of information that most of the public doesn't have.

Kiper, who is probably the most well known "guru", has Clausen over Bradford.

I think people are off this year on Bradford like they were when Alex Smith went over Rodgers.

Also, I honestly think that Clausen's perceived character issues play a role in him being ranked behind Bradford by so many people.

[-King-]

I think Clausen's biggest asset is his knowledge of defense. He can diagnose the defense better than any qb of this class by far. He has ran a pro style offense for his whole college career and has improved. He has a good arm and very good accuracy.

In many ways, he reminds me of Philip Rivers, right down to the throwing motion.

[chiefzilla1501]

The Rams might be the worst example you could have come up with. They picked #2 overall two straight years, and both of those picks are looking like they may be whiffs.

But Billy Devaney has only been involved in one draft. And it's way too early to make any judgments on Jason Smith. Kind of hard to be tough on a guy who missed most of the season from concussion symptoms and who hasn't even been given a chance to play Left Tackle. The fact that the Rams have been actively shopping Alex Barron indicates that they're pretty confident that Jason Smith isn't a concern for them.

[chiefzilla1501]

Kiper, who is probably the most well known "guru", has Clausen over Bradford.

I think people are off this year on Bradford like they were when Alex Smith went over Rodgers.

Also, I honestly think that Clausen's perceived character issues play a role in him being ranked behind Bradford by so many people.

I don't think it's nearly the same. The NFL went into a drought of spread QBs. I'm guessing they are doing a lot more extensive testing to make sure spread skills will translate to a pro offense.

If the demand for Bradford is this high, then there's probably a lot more to it. And Kiper may have Clausen ranked above Bradford, but he's one of a pretty small minority.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Devaney was involved in the 2008 draft as well.

[chiefzilla1501]

Devaney was involved in the 2008 draft as well.

Sorry man, off day.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It's fine, but to clarify, he wasn't officially GM until after the 2008 draft. Easy source of confusion.

[RedThat]

Didn't really get to watch much Notre Dame games this year. But judging from what I've seen out him in the highlight reels, he seems to do a good job of scrambling out of the pocket and eluding pressure. With that being said, I've been impressed with how he throws the ball on the run. I think that is one of his positive attritubes.

[Blick]

I don't think it's nearly the same. The NFL went into a drought of spread QBs. I'm guessing they are doing a lot more extensive testing to make sure spread skills will translate to a pro offense.

If the demand for Bradford is this high, then there's probably a lot more to it. And Kiper may have Clausen ranked above Bradford, but he's one of a pretty small minority.

What extensive testing?

Also, do we really know how small the minority is? We don't know how a lot of people feel about these QB's.

[Sanka]

I think you need to put into account that ND had nothing that resembled pass blocking or a running game Jimmy's freshman or sophmore seasons.

[RealSNR]

How does a guy who has never read a defense automatically have an elite football IQ?Motherfucking this

[chiefzilla1501]

What extensive testing?

Also, do we really know how small the minority is? We don't know how a lot of people feel about these QB's.

I don't know what tests these personnel guys run exactly. But my guess is that they do a ton of testing on these guys' Football IQ. Not just a Wonderlic, but if they're well equipped to make the kind of quick reads they'll have to make in that kind of an offense.

I imagine that they're also paying very close attention to footwork, which is a major reason a lot of QBs fail out of the spread. Bradford ran out of the spread, but keep in mind he also took a lot of snaps under center at Oklahoma.

If you have a guy with the mechanics to run the position, the leadership to run a team, and the football IQ to quickly pick up how to run the offense, I don't see any reason why he couldn't make the transition to the pro level.

There's another school that might suggest that spread failures of the past might also be due to coaches in the past lacking the imagination to incorporate the spread into the NFL. A lot of teams are starting to spread the offense out quite a bit and a lot are relying on a lot more shotgun sets. The Pats and Steelers are two teams that run quite a few shotgun sets, and the 49ers last year started to run a much more quick-strike offense that Alex Smith actually played relatively well in last year.

[chiefzilla1501]

How does a guy who has never read a defense automatically have an elite football IQ?

I don't know how the tests read back. But I'm guessing there are plenty of good tests personnel guys use to test it.

I remember hearing that Herm loved to pepper draft candidates with quick-fire questions, to see how quickly they reacted to things they saw on tape. I imagine there is plenty of testing you can do to figure out if the guy has it today, and if the guy can potentially have it tomorrow. The Wonderlic is probably one of many assessments that help you get to that.

[B_Ambuehl]

I've never been a big fan of the Clausen family or any of their other QB sons. I've tried hard to dislike Jimmy. He even looks like a first class douchebag. But watching the guy on tape I can't help but like him. He has a better brain for the position IMO than any other QB the last several years. There's a reason why he's been solid in crunch time.

[chiefzilla1501]

I've never been a big fan of the Clausen family or any of their other QB sons. I've tried hard to dislike Jimmy. He even looks like a first class douchebag. But watching the guy on tape I can't help but like him. He has a better brain for the position IMO than any other QB the last several years. There's a reason why he's been solid in crunch time.

I think so too. I like him today a lot more than I liked Matt Ryan, who I thought is a gunslinger (still do). A lot more than I liked Stafford, though I think Stafford is going to be a really good pro. And a lot better than Sanchez, who I still am not sold on. And yes, though Bradford seems to be rated higher, I still like Clausen better.

I agree--I think from a pure skills assessment, he's the best QB to come into the draft in a few years.

[Chiefnj2]

What personnel guys? The ones in St. Louis? Maybe Washington?

Do we have a large enough sample size to make any statements?

If Clausen is as good as people on the Planet think then he should easily get drafted in the top 10 since teams 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 all need QBs.

[RealSNR]

If Clausen is as good as people on the Planet think then he should easily get drafted in the top 10 since teams 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 all need QBs.He really should.

[FD]

Statistically, Clausen just had what was arguably the best Junior season a QB has ever had in a pro-style offense. The fact that he only threw 4 interceptions is mind-boggling just on its own.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

If you want to talk about accuracy you need to be talking bout Colt McCoy !

[RealSNR]

If you want to talk about not playing in the national championship you need to be talking bout Colt McCoy !FYP

[the Talking Can]

Statistically, Clausen just had what was arguably the best Junior season a QB has ever had in a pro-style offense. The fact that he only threw 4 interceptions is mind-boggling just on its own.

not good enough for kansas city though

[CanadaKC]

He's hyped as Jake Locker..without actually being Jake Locker...so there it is.

[Mecca]

You know, I really do not understand the Locker hype whatsoever.

[milkman]

Also, I honestly think that Clausen's perceived character issues play a role in him being ranked behind Bradford by so many people.

It absolutely does.

The fact is, what seperates a great QB from a stiff has more to do what's inside the head than physical qualities.

David Carr had more physical gifts than Drew Brees.

[Mr. Laz]

Statistically, Clausen just had what was arguably the best Junior season a QB has ever had in a pro-style offense. The fact that he only threw 4 interceptions is mind-boggling just on its own.
and at least 1 of those 4 interception wasn't his fault.

Floyd started blocking and the ball hit him right in the middle of the back.

[Mecca]

Kiper, who is probably the most well known "guru", has Clausen over Bradford.

I think people are off this year on Bradford like they were when Alex Smith went over Rodgers.

Also, I honestly think that Clausen's perceived character issues play a role in him being ranked behind Bradford by so many people.

That's exactly what it is, a QB gets a perceived character flaw and all of the sudden he's Ryan Leaf.

[Hammock Parties]

Man, passing on Sanchez was bad enough...but it's pretty clear Clausen is more polished and less of a risk, with about equal talent. To pass on both of these guys would just be incredibly stupid, like the Raiders passing on Rivers, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Leinart, and Cutler. They could have had any of those guys.

Right now the Chiefs have passed on Flacco and Sanchez. If we pass on Clausen, well...we're gonna be sitting here saying "we could have had any of these guys."

[chiefzilla1501]

Man, passing on Sanchez was bad enough...but it's pretty clear Clausen is more polished and less of a risk, with about equal talent. To pass on both of these guys would just be incredibly stupid, like the Raiders passing on Rivers, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Leinart, and Cutler. They could have had any of those guys.

Right now the Chiefs have passed on Flacco and Sanchez. If we pass on Clausen, well...we're gonna be sitting here saying "we could have had any of these guys."

I'm not convinced passing on Sanchez was a bad thing. I think Clausen is a much better QB--that would be a much tougher pill to swallow, unless the Chiefs knock this draft out of the park.

[BossChief]

Cool stuff!

I remember a couple months ago saying that I wanted Clausen more this year than most wanted Sanchez last year and got blasted for the comment.

Deez and a couple others were the only ones that didnt blast me for that opinion.

Seems that here we are a couple months later and that opinion has spread.

I think that after PM hangs em up, Clausen could be the best QB in the NFL if we draft him and he is able to continue his career with Charlie. I think that if Romeo can mold this defense into a good-premier unit, we can definitely win a championship with Jimmy as our QB.

Ya know what scares the shit out of me?

The fact that Denver runs the same offense we do....

[Hammock Parties]

Ya know what scares the shit out of me?

The fact that Denver runs the same offense we do....

That shouldn't scare you. That gives the Chiefs the edge with Romeo.

[BossChief]

That shouldn't scare you. That gives the Chiefs the edge with Romeo.

I was talking about the fact that Im sure Josh Mcsuperkid is well aware of Jimmys skill set and experience in his offense.

Jimmy Clausen as a Bronco is a very scary thought.

[Hammock Parties]

I was talking about the fact that Im sure Josh Mcsuperkid is well aware of Jimmys skill set and experience in his offense.

Jimmy Clausen as a Bronco is a very scary thought.

Meh, they have Quinn now.

[BossChief]

Jimmy Clausens accuracy is better than any quarterback to come out next year IMO.

The receiver class next year SHOULD factor into this as well.

IMO our best way to fix this embarrassing team from this point forward is to draft Jimmy at 5, Tate at 36 and defense the rest of the way (with a interior linemen mixed in there at some point) this draft and then draft one of the elite WRs next year and sit Jimmy till next season at the earliest.

Clausen would be able to step onto the field in 2011 with

Bowe
Jones/Floyd/Green
Tate (slot receiver)
Charles
Jones (or drafted back if his body falls off a cliff)

That would give our offense some serious firepower and our defense would have a lot of resources to improve with long term.

[Chiefnj2]

Jimmy Clausens accuracy is better than any quarterback to come out next year IMO.

.

Why don't you wait until next year to play out? At this point last year Clausen's stats weren't nearly as good as his junior stats.

[beach tribe]

Lots of good, rational responses to this thread.

I can't really add anything that Deez, OTW, the Can, etc, have not already covered.

I pretty much always agree with BossChiefs line of thinking.

[beach tribe]

Cool stuff!

I remember a couple months ago saying that I wanted Clausen more this year than most wanted Sanchez last year and got blasted for the comment.

Deez and a couple others were the only ones that didnt blast me for that opinion.

Seems that here we are a couple months later and that opinion has spread.

I think that after PM hangs em up, Clausen could be the best QB in the NFL if we draft him and he is able to continue his career with Charlie. I think that if Romeo can mold this defense into a good-premier unit, we can definitely win a championship with Jimmy as our QB.

Ya know what scares the shit out of me?

The fact that Denver runs the same offense we do....

I got blasted for not wanting Sanchez, and will be thrilled to have Clausen instead. People repeatedly said I was scared to draft a QB, but it wasn't that. I just see Sanchez becoming a run of the mill game manager.
We really need to draft this guy. It's just too right on so many levels.

[Otter]

I've looked up quiet a few clips of Clausen footage and don't see anything special either. Plus he looks like Meeper from the muppets.

I just don't see it.

[-King-]

I was talking about the fact that Im sure Josh Mcsuperkid is well aware of Jimmys skill set and experience in his offense.

Jimmy Clausen as a Bronco is a very scary thought.

Don't worry, as soon as Clausen gets good, Josh McD would trade him.

[Hammock Parties]

I've looked up quiet a few clips of Clausen footage and don't see anything special either.

Watch the play at 1:35.

Rolling to his left, throws back across his body, threads the needle.

:37 is a great throw, too, watch him pump the free safety and drop one in the back of the end zone from 25 yards out.

2:19 ain't too shabby, either.

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[Ming the Merciless]

Is it just me or does the ball sail a bit in some of the plays....and the receivers go up and make a great play...

:37 was pretty bad ass

[milkman]

Is it just me or does the ball sail a bit in some of the plays....and the receivers go up and make a great play...

:37 was pretty bad ass

Did you just wake up Van Winkle?

[Ming the Merciless]

Did you just wake up Van Winkle?

No, you two were sleeping so soundly I thought I should let you guys sleep.

[milkman]

Some of those throws do sail because he can't follow through with his front foot due to the toe injury.

[wazu]

He looks like a total douche. Even more douchey than Elway. For this reason I want him as our quarterback. Imagine if he turns out to be a great one. Just THINK of how torturous it would be for our division rivals to look at that douche as he beats them time and time again, and leads KC to dominance!

[CaliforniaChief]

Some of those throws do sail because he can't follow through with his front foot due to the toe injury.

So from what you've seen do you think that if his toe is healthy he will fix that (sailing the ball)?

[milkman]

So from what you've seen do you think that if his toe is healthy he will fix that (sailing the ball)?

Yes I do, but don't mistake this as an endorsenment of Clausen as our pick at 5, because as I've said many times, I'm not sold on him.

[Hammock Parties]

He looks like a total douche. Even more douchey than Elway. For this reason I want him as our quarterback. Imagine if he turns out to be a great one. Just THINK of how torturous it would be for our division rivals to look at that douche as he beats them time and time again, and leads KC to dominance!

http://i43.tinypic.com/2pzzjn9.gif

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm not convinced passing on Sanchez was a bad thing. I think Clausen is a much better QB--that would be a much tougher pill to swallow, unless the Chiefs knock this draft out of the park.

And I'm fully convinced that you don't know a fucking thing and that for the most part, you're full of shit.

You admit in this thread that you don't know what scouts "test" for or look for in a player, yet your verbosity is beyond reproach.

What the fuck DO you know, besides sticking both of Pioli's balls in your mouth, simultaneously?

It's clear that you don't know the college game or anyone that's in the coaching ranks and it's clear that you don't know the pro game, or anyone in the pro ranks.

It's just hyperbole and speculation. Ad nauseam.

[chiefzilla1501]

And I'm fully convinced that you don't know a ****ing thing and that for the most part, you're full of shit.

You admit in this thread that you don't know what scouts "test" for or look for in a player, yet your verbosity is beyond reproach.

What the **** DO you know, besides sticking both of Pioli's balls in your mouth, simultaneously?

It's clear that you don't know the college game or anyone that's in the coaching ranks and it's clear that you don't know the pro game, or anyone in the pro ranks.

It's just hyperbole and speculation. Ad nauseam.

Why is that bad for me to admit I don't know? None of us know nearly as much information on these players as scouts know. Anyone who claims they're an expert unless they actually sit and watch endless game film and individually interview these guys and talk to coaches/friends of the player and see all the psychological testing, is a bullshitter. That doesn't mean we're not allowed to hold opinions.

Mecca has lots of OPINIONS. I enjoy reading them, because even though he doesn't have the info scouts have, I think he generally has interesting insights.

You're making an argument of convenience because you don't like me. My saying I like Clausen better than Sanchez is an opinion. I don't see you making a big deal of the hundreds of OPINIONS that fly on this board every day.

[DeezNutz]

http://i43.tinypic.com/2pzzjn9.gif

LMAO.

Still makes me laugh.

[Hammock Parties]

I actually haven't posted that version before. That's the straight up I'M SO EXCITED AND I JUST CAN'T HIDE IT version. His joy never ceases.

[DaneMcCloud]

Why is that bad for me to admit I don't know? None of us know nearly as much information on these players as scouts know. Anyone who claims they're an expert unless they actually sit and watch endless game film and individually interview these guys and talk to coaches/friends of the player and see all the psychological testing, is a bullshitter. That doesn't mean we're not allowed to hold opinions.

Mecca has lots of OPINIONS. I enjoy reading them, because even though he doesn't have the info scouts have, I think he generally has interesting insights.

You're making an argument of convenience because you don't like me. My saying I like Clausen better than Sanchez is an opinion. I don't see you making a big deal of the hundreds of OPINIONS that fly on this board every day.

Because, just like in this instance, you type 500 words instead of 20. You try to come across like someone in the know (and probably fool a ton of stupid fucking rubes on this site) instead of saying in reality, you don't know jackshit.

THAT'S why.

Underneath your verbose posts is a true fan.

[chiefzilla1501]

Because, just like in this instance, you type 500 words instead of 20. You try to come across like someone in the know (and probably fool a ton of stupid ****ing rubes on this site) instead of saying in reality, you don't know jackshit.

THAT'S why.

Underneath your verbose posts is a true fan.

I have opinions. Just like everyone on this board. And I'm hardheaded and have strong opinions. But I also am not afraid to admit when I lay down a fact and I'm proven wrong on a fact. There are plenty of people who will back me up on that, even ones who frequently disagree with me.

The issue is you're cherry-picking here because you don't like me. Grilling people for having a strong opinion? That's 99% of this board.

[RustShack]

Passing on Sanchez is not a bad thing, ONLY IF we draft Clausen.

[penchief]

If we're going to call Bradford's accuracy "elite," it's absolutely appropriate to make the same claim about Clausen's.

I don't think so. Bradford makes all the throws on the money. He seems to thread the needle no matter how far down the field he's throwing it. Seems to always hit his receivers in stride. The thing that amazes me when I watch him is that he makes it look easy. Like its effortless.

On the other hand, when watching Clausen throw it looks like he's got to wind up to throw it. Like he's got to put his whole body into it. It may not ultimately be a big deal but it concerns me. I agree that his has decent accuracy but nowhere near Bradfords level, IMHO.

[Ming the Merciless]

Passing on Sanchez is not a bad thing, ONLY IF we draft Clausen.

More stupidity from Rustshack....

The one has nothing to do with the other....If Sanchez turns out to be awesome, and Clausen turns out to be average or less, then your statement is false.

We could pass on Clausen and end up with a top 10 draft pick next year EASILY and get a guy who is better than Clausen or Sanchez.

There are so many ways that your statement is wrong, it isn't even funny.

We are not drafting Clausen with the #5 pick, so you better buy a few boxes of kleen-ex.

[RustShack]

More stupidity from Rustshack....

The one has nothing to do with the other....If Sanchez turns out to be awesome, and Clausen turns out to be average or less, then your statement is false.

We could pass on Clausen and end up with a top 10 draft pick next year EASILY and get a guy who is better than Clausen or Sanchez.

There are so many ways that your statement is wrong, it isn't even funny.

We are not drafting Clausen with the #5 pick, so you better buy a few boxes of kleen-ex.

ROFL

[DeezNutz]

I don't think so. Bradford makes all the throws on the money. He seems to thread the needle no matter how far down the field he's throwing it. Seems to always hit his receivers in stride. The thing that amazes me when I watch him is that he makes it look easy. Like its effortless.

On the other hand, when watching Clausen throw it looks like he's got to wind up to throw it. Like he's got to put his whole body into it. It may not ultimately be a big deal but it concerns me. I agree that his has decent accuracy but nowhere near Bradfords level, IMHO.

While we can certainly agree to disagree, the accuracy of these two players is hard to compare because Bradford is not consistently throwing into tight windows. And this is a major reason why so many of his throws seem "effortless."

Can he make NFL throws? Yeah, I think he can, but his learning curve is going to be extremely steep for a plethora of different reasons. And there's no guarantee that he'll transition.

[RustShack]

Whats even more sad, is next year you will be saying the same exact thing about those QB's. But it doesn't matter, because after we draft Clausen we won't have to listen to that stupid argument every single year anymore.

[DaneMcCloud]

I have opinions. Just like everyone on this board. And I'm hardheaded and have strong opinions. But I also am not afraid to admit when I lay down a fact and I'm proven wrong on a fact. There are plenty of people who will back me up on that, even ones who frequently disagree with me.

The issue is you're cherry-picking here because you don't like me. Grilling people for having a strong opinion? That's 99% of this board.

It's not that I "dislike you", it's just that you go 100x further than everyone else in forum to prove that you know what you're talking about with your verbosity, when in reality, it's ALL opinion.

That's what I don't like.

You try to back up your claims and Pioli ballwashing with way too many paragraphs, giving the illusion that what you're saying has some worth when in reality, it's worth about as much as Roy III.

[Ming the Merciless]

Whats even more sad, is next year you will be saying the same exact thing about those QB's. But it doesn't matter, because after we draft Clausen we won't have to listen to that stupid argument every single year anymore.

I wouldn't. I have said before and I will say it again....I am willing to give Cassel 8 more games. If he blows it, we will be looking at a top 10 draft pick next year. I would gladly support using a top 10 pick next season of Cassel fails again this season.

As to the second part of your statement...If we do end up with Clausen somehow (it won't be with the 5th overall pick), I will hope you are correct and that he develops into the QBOF. I just don't see it happening. I don't think it is the right direction and I don't think the FO does either.

[DaneMcCloud]

I wouldn't. I have said before and I will say it again....I am willing to give Cassel 8 more games. If he blows it, we will be looking at a top 10 draft pick next year. I would gladly support using a top 10 pick next season of Cassel fails again this season.

As to the second part of your statement...If we do end up with Clausen somehow (it won't be with the 5th overall pick), I will hope you are correct and that he develops into the QBOF. I just don't see it happening. I don't think it is the right direction and I don't think the FO does either.

What do you think Cassel will be able to do in 8 games this year that he wasn't able to do in 15 last year?

[penchief]

Clausen does everything Bradford does, but does it from a pro-style offense (which is more difficult) and without an OL littered with nfl players (which is more difficult) and with a toe that was injured all season (which is more difficult) and with no defense to bail him out (which is more difficult) and oh yeah was personally groomed by a superbowl winning offensive coordinator (which is a huge plus) and hasn't had his shoulder blown out twice (another huge plus)....


but, other than that, he sucks and is too risky and we should pass and wait another 25 years for a QB, a superbowl, and a magical candy shitting pony to appear....

Statistically you may be right. But when you watch the manner in which they both get it done there is a noticable difference. I'm not taking anything away from Clausen because he apparently got the job done in college. But Bradford displays all the things you want in a franchise quarterback. All of them. Inculding poise, intelligence, and leadership.

At this point in time I'm just not sold on Clausen being worth the fifth overall pick, even as a quarterback. I'm sure he'll give it a good go but I'm not sold that he's a franchise quarterback. IMHO, Bradford fits that bill way before Clausen does.

Also, playing well in a pro-style offense doesn't guarantee anything. Plenty of touted college quarterbacks have had that advantage and failed in the NFL. One such quarterback played at Notre Dame under Charlie Weiss in a pro-style offense. A lot of people in Cleveland and Miami thought Brady Quinn should have been a top ten pick, too. Just like many here feel that way about Clausen.

I don't think we should take a quarterback at five unless he's worth the fifth overall pick. And I'm not sold on the idea that Clausen is. Whereas, I'd take Bradford at five in a heartbeat.

[RustShack]

There is no possible way we will be in a position to take a QB half of what Clausen would be to us next year. So if you pass on it now, you pass on it forever. Not all QB's fit all systems, people just for some reason can't seem to grasp that concept. Yeah theres a chance it happens, but drafting Clausen would be the smallest risk of any QB in history. Now, being drafted to another team like Buffalo would be a different story since they don't run the same system. So he would be just as risky for most other teams as any other QB would be for us.

[DeezNutz]

Statistically you may be right. But when you watch the manner in which they both get it done there is a noticable difference. I'm not taking anything away from Clausen because he apparently got the job done in college. But Bradford displays all the things you want in a franchise quarterback. All of them. Inculding poise, intelligence, and leadership.

At this point in time I'm just not sold on Clausen being worth the fifth overall pick, even as a quarterback. I'm sure he'll give it a good go but I'm not sold that he's a franchise quarterback. IMHO, Bradford fits that bill way before Clausen does.

Also, playing well in a pro-style offense doesn't guarantee anything. Plenty of touted college quarterbacks have had that advantage and failed in the NFL. One such quarterback played at Notre Dame under Charlie Weiss in a pro-style offense. A lot of people in Cleveland and Miami thought Brady Quinn should have been a top ten pick, too. Just like many here feel that way about Clausen.

I don't think we should take a quarterback at five unless he's worth the fifth overall pick. And I'm not sold on the idea that Clausen is. Whereas, I'd take Bradford at five in a heartbeat.

Really?

You like him as a prospect. Fine. But let's not be intellectually dishonest with all of the hyperbole.

[penchief]

While we can certainly agree to disagree, the accuracy of these two players is hard to compare because Bradford is not consistently throwing into tight windows. And this is a major reason why so many of his throws seem "effortless."

Can he make NFL throws? Yeah, I think he can, but his learning curve is going to be extremely steep for a plethora of different reasons. And there's no guarantee that he'll transition.

I'll tell you what. What I've seen of him, when he does throw into tight windows he threads the needle perfectly. The first time I really paid attention to him was the National Championship game against Florida. And I came away from that game more impressed with the way he was threading the neadle twenty and thirty yards down field into tight coverage than anything else about that game.

[CaliforniaChief]

Yes I do, but don't mistake this as an endorsenment of Clausen as our pick at 5, because as I've said many times, I'm not sold on him.

I do remember reading some posts of yours indicating reservations about Clausen. I believe you had said that while you aren't sold on him, the Chiefs drafting him would excite you solely for the purpose that Pioli was admitting a mistake in Cassel, right? Either way, I honestly don't know enough about projecting QB's to know, so I'd be curious what the reservations are.

[DaneMcCloud]

Statistically you may be right. But when you watch the manner in which they both get it done there is a noticable difference. I'm not taking anything away from Clausen because he apparently got the job done in college. But Bradford displays all the things you want in a franchise quarterback. All of them. Inculding poise, intelligence, and leadership.

At this point in time I'm just not sold on Clausen being worth the fifth overall pick, even as a quarterback. I'm sure he'll give it a good go but I'm not sold that he's a franchise quarterback. IMHO, Bradford fits that bill way before Clausen does.


Except for reading NFL defenses, playing behind center and showing any semblance of sturdiness.

[Reerun_KC]

ok ... so alot of us are looking at Clausen. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Clausen but imo should we be looking at a special guy.

let's face it, the drafturbators just want a big named QB and they don't really give a shit whether the guy is really any good. They have lost their dam minds.

But ... what about the rest of us with a little bit of rationality left in our heads.

Is there anything Elite about Jimmy Clausen? Is he really worth the #5 pick?

Bradford - Elite Accuracy, superior football I.Q., NFL Size
Tebow - elite character, great athletic skills,great motivation
Clausen - ??
McCoy - ??


so let's hear it ... what is ELITE about Jimmy Clausen?


Whats the difference between the Draftubators and the Menstraters?

Anyone?

[penchief]

Really?

You like him as a prospect. Fine. But let's not be intellectually dishonest with all of the hyperbole.

What hyperbole? What dishonesty? Damn, talk about dishonesty. Just tell me where I"m wrong instead of attacking my character. Jesus, some of you people are really full of yourselves.

When measuring the attributes of a prototypical quarterback, Bradford has everything you look for. If you want to knock him because he's been injured that's fair when evaluating whether he's an injury risk but it's a moot point to knock him for playing in a spread offense. As I said, proving one's self in a pro-style offense while playing in college is no more a guarantee of success in the NFL. Just ask Brady Quinn. They're all prospects at this point. All any of us are doing is projecting future success.

Bradford has the accuracy, the arm strength, and size. He's a proven leader and very intelligent. And I really like his poise. Plus, he's a character guy.

All that said, he makes it look effortless. To me, that means something. A quarterback that makes it look easy is probably going to be able to get it done in the pros.

And that is my biggest concern with Clausen. He looks like he's really got to wind up and throw his whole body into it when he throws it downfield. To me, that has the potential to get messy when things get hectic in the pocket. Which may be one reason that Clausen tends to leave the pocket prematurely and roll out to the right. Something else that concerns me.

I'm sorry. I just don't think we should draft a quarterback just for the sake of drafting a quarterback. Especially if it's going to be a reach. If we do draft him I hope like hell my observations are wrong. But at this point I just don't get all the Clausen love because I don't see where it's coming from.

[DaneMcCloud]

ok ... so alot of us are looking at Clausen. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Clausen but imo should we be looking at a special guy.

So you're claiming that there is absolutely nothing special about Clausen?

[DaneMcCloud]

What hyperbole? What dishonesty? Damn, talk about dishonesty. Just tell me where I"m wrong instead of attacking my character. Jesus, some of you people are really full of yourselves.

When measuring the attributes of a prototypical quarterback, Bradford has everything you look for. If you want to knock him because he's been injured that's fair when evaluating whether he's an injury risk but it's a moot point to knock him for playing in a spread offense. As I said, proving one's self in a pro-style offense while playing in college is no more a guarantee of success in the NFL. Just ask Brady Quinn. They're all prospects at this point. All any of us are doing is projecting future success.

Bradford has the accuracy, the arm strength, and size. He's a proven leader and very intelligent. And I really like his poise. Plus, he's a character guy.

All that said, he makes it look effortless. To me, that means something. A quarterback that makes it look easy is probably going to be able to get it done in the pros.

And that is my biggest concern with Clausen. He looks like he's really got to wind up and throw his whole body into it when he throws it downfield. To me, that has the potential to get messy when things get hectic in the pocket. Which may be one reason that Clausen tends to leave the pocket prematurely and roll out to the right. Something else that concerns me.

I'm sorry. I just don't think we should draft a quarterback just for the sake of drafting a quarterback. Especially if it's going to be a reach. If we do draft him I hope like hell my observations are wrong. But at this point I just don't get all the Clausen love because I don't see where it's coming from.

LMAO

Comparing Quinn to Clausen is just as ridiculous (or not more) as people who say "Well, Trent Green had a bad first year, so I'm giving Cassel another year!".

LMAO

I have a feeling you have barely watched Clausen and know next to nothing about him on and off the field.

[Hammock Parties]

Everyone was concerned about Quinn's accuracy coming out. Exact opposite with Clausen.

[penchief]

Except for reading NFL defenses, playing behind center and showing any semblance of sturdiness.

Reading defenses is learned. So is playing under center (which by the way, most scouts and GMs have been satisfied with his footwork in this regard when working him out). A quarterback's acumen is the attribute they'll measure because it is his acumen that will allow him to absorb the knowledge he needs to do those things. And he has been rated high in that regard.

I'm guessing that Bradford has had some experience playing under center. I doubt he's never done it before. I mean, it is a fair criticism but it's not something that should be an obstacle if he has all the right attributes. And based on most accounts, he does possess all the right attributes.

[Tribal Warfare]

And that is my biggest concern with Clausen. He looks like he's really got to wind up and throw his whole body into it when he throws it downfield. To me, that has the potential to get messy when things get hectic in the pocket. Which may be one reason that Clausen tends to leave the pocket prematurely and roll out to the right. Something else that concerns me.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/news/story?id=5064085

[DaneMcCloud]

Maybe by 2083, when I'm long gone, the Chiefs and their fans will be ready to take a QB in the first round.

Maybe.

[DaneMcCloud]

Reading defenses is learned. So is playing under center (which by the way, most scouts and GMs have been satisfied with his footwork in this regard when working him out). A quarterback's acumen is the attribute they'll measure because it is his acumen that will allow him to absorb the knowledge he needs to do those things. And he has been rated high in that regard.

I'm guessing that Bradford has had some experience playing under center. I doubt he's never done it before. I mean, it is a fair criticism but it's not something that should be an obstacle if he has all the right attributes. And based on most accounts, he does possess all the right attributes.

This is the same line of thinking that was exhibited towards Aaron Curry last year.

"Well, just because he wasn't asked to rush the passer doesn't mean he can't".

That worked out well.

LMAO

[Archie Bunker]

I saw in Gosselin's second mock he said not to rule us out on Clausen. I'd post the mock but I'm stuck on my phone.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DeezNutz]

What hyperbole? What dishonesty? Damn, talk about dishonesty. Just tell me where I"m wrong instead of attacking my character. Jesus, some of you people are really full of yourselves.


:facepalm:

Attacked your character? What are you talking about?

[penchief]

LMAO

Comparing Quinn to Clausen is just as ridiculous (or not more) as people who say "Well, Trent Green had a bad first year, so I'm giving Cassel another year!".

LMAO

I have a feeling you have barely watched Clausen and know next to nothing about him on and off the field.

I think Quinn's lack of accuracy is a fair point when comparing him to Clausen. However, it doesn't necessarily bolster the argument that playing in Charlie Weis's pro-style offense guarantees success anymore than playing in a spread offense guarantees failure.

After watching the two highlight videos someone posted on here a while back I initially raised concerns about his throwing motion and his leaving the pocket prematurely to roll out to the right. As the Clausen debate raged on I decided to check out a couple more highlight videos on the internet and saw basically the same thing.

Anyone who wants to pull those two highlight videos up and watch them will see what I saw. That doesn't mean that he won't be a successful quarterback in the NFL but I think those concerns are both legitimate questions based on observation.

Maybe you can view those videos and show me the error of my ways or ease my mind. If not, you can have all the "feeling" you want but unless you are willing to address those concerns directly you probably shouldn't be making implications, IMHO.

[DaneMcCloud]

I think Quinn's lack of accuracy is a fair point when comparing him to Clausen. However, it doesn't necessarily bolster the argument that playing in Charlie Weis's pro-style offense guarantees success anymore than playing in a spread offense guarantees failure.

After watching the two highlight videos someone posted on here a while back I initially raised concerns about his throwing motion and his leaving the pocket prematurely to roll out to the right. As the Clausen debate raged on I decided to check out a couple more highlight videos on the internet and saw basically the same thing.

Anyone who wants to pull those two highlight videos up and watch them will see what I saw. That doesn't mean that he won't be a successful quarterback in the NFL but I think those concerns are both legitimate questions based on my observation.

Maybe you can view those videos and show me the error of my ways or ease my mind. If not, you can have all the "feeling" you want but unless you are willing to address those concerns directly you probably shouldn't be making implications, IMHO.

Dude, please.

You can't judge a player's three year career by two YouTube videos.

Please, please, please tell me that this is not why and where your opinion has been formed.

Please.

[penchief]

:facepalm:

Attacked your character? What are you talking about?

Accusing me of intellectual dishonesty is not an attack on my character? All I'm asking you to do is stick to the points. I believe I've raised legitimate concerns about Clausen's status as a franchise quarterback. None of which you've addressed.

[DaneMcCloud]

Accusing me of intellectual dishonesty is not an attack on my character? All I'm asking you to do is stick to the points. I believe I've raised legitimate concerns about Clausen's status as a franchise quarterback. None of which you've addressed.

Pointing out that one is intellectually dishonest about a particular subject isn't a character assassination.

It's a call to reconsider.

If you're intentionally being obtuse, then more power to you.

[DeezNutz]

But Bradford displays all the things you want in a franchise quarterback. All of them.

Accusing me of intellectual dishonesty is not an attack on my character? All I'm asking you to do is stick to the points. I believe I've raised legitimate concerns about Clausen's status as a franchise quarterback. None of which you've addressed.

Your first quotation is the very definition of hyperbole. He does NOT display all of the things you want in a franchise QB, and Dane listed the major shortcomings in a previous post, so I won't repeat.


You like him as a prospect. Fine. But let's not be intellectually dishonest with all of the hyperbole.

This is not an attack on you. The "all" in your post is obviously hyperbolic, so I'm suggesting this isn't a productive form of analysis, thus the "let's not."

[RealSNR]

What hyperbole? What dishonesty? Damn, talk about dishonesty. Just tell me where I"m wrong instead of attacking my character. Jesus, some of you people are really full of yourselves.

When measuring the attributes of a prototypical quarterback, Bradford has everything you look for. If you want to knock him because he's been injured that's fair when evaluating whether he's an injury risk but it's a moot point to knock him for playing in a spread offense. As I said, proving one's self in a pro-style offense while playing in college is no more a guarantee of success in the NFL. Just ask Brady Quinn. They're all prospects at this point. All any of us are doing is projecting future success.

Bradford has the accuracy, the arm strength, and size. He's a proven leader and very intelligent. And I really like his poise. Plus, he's a character guy.

All that said, he makes it look effortless. To me, that means something. A quarterback that makes it look easy is probably going to be able to get it done in the pros.

And that is my biggest concern with Clausen. He looks like he's really got to wind up and throw his whole body into it when he throws it downfield. To me, that has the potential to get messy when things get hectic in the pocket. Which may be one reason that Clausen tends to leave the pocket prematurely and roll out to the right. Something else that concerns me.

I'm sorry. I just don't think we should draft a quarterback just for the sake of drafting a quarterback. Especially if it's going to be a reach. If we do draft him I hope like hell my observations are wrong. But at this point I just don't get all the Clausen love because I don't see where it's coming from.You said so yourself that your concern about Clausen "winding up" probably isn't a big deal.

I've done my own video watching on Clausen. He's better than Bradford. He's better than Sanchez. He's definitely not just a QB to take for the sake of taking a QB. He's not Jamarcus Russell to the Raiders simply because they had the #1 overall and needed a QB. He's not Josh Freeman bumped up into the first round simply because of the rush on QBs. Hell, he's not even Joe Flacco who's done pretty well for himself.

I have to whole heartedly disagree with you. Clausen is 100% legit, and the value in picking him at #5 is there. I love his character, drive, toughness, and smarts on the field. He would only further excel in this offense under this coordinator. To NOT take him would be compromising draft pick value, not the other way around.

[RealSNR]

This is not an attack on you. The "all" in your post is obviously hyperbolic, so I'm suggesting this isn't a productive form of analysis, thus the "let's not."Dude, just chill out, okay? Back off.

So angry. I just don't get it.

[DeezNutz]

Dude, just chill out, okay? Back off.

So angry. I just don't get it.

Are you calling me an asinine?!?

[penchief]

Dude, please.

You can't judge a player's three year career by two YouTube videos.

Please, please, please tell me that this is not why and where your opinion has been formed.

Please.

Dude, please.

First, if you'd read my post you'd know that I didn't judge it on those two. I told you that I went on line and watched a few more. What about that don't you get? I made the effort to investigate further. Did you intentionally overlook that part or did you just not read what I posted?

Second, I'm not judging his college career based on those two videos. I'm raising questions about two things that I have concerns about. Two things that he may have gotten away with in college that he may not be able to get away with in the pros. I'm questioning whether or not he's a franchise quarterback. Whether he's really worth the fifth overall pick or not. Why do you choose to put words in my mouth rather than address the specifics of my concerns?

Is your reading comprehension really that bad or are you just too eager to demean the opinion of others?

[penchief]

Pointing out that one is intellectually dishonest about a particular subject isn't a character assassination.

It's a call to reconsider.

If you're intentionally being obtuse, then more power to you.

I didn't say character assassination. It is, however, an attack on one's character to accuse them of intellectual dishonesty. I don't see how you can say that it isn't.

If I weren't willing to back up my opinions with analysis or substance based on personal observation someone might have reason to accuse me of dishonesty. But so far, those debating me have been the ones avoiding an honest debate in favor of putting words in my mouth or questioning my credibility.

[penchief]

Your first quotation is the very definition of hyperbole. He does NOT display all of the things you want in a franchise QB, and Dane listed the major shortcomings in a previous post, so I won't repeat..

As a prospect, he has all the attributes. The things that Dane cited are not attributes but learned behaviors. Intelligence and work ethic are attributes that overcome the lack of experience in those areas. When it comes to the traits that scouts look for, according to many of those scouts he has them all.

This is not an attack on you. The "all" in your post is obviously hyperbolic, so I'm suggesting this isn't a productive form of analysis, thus the "let's not."

According to a lot of people in the business he has all the attributes. According to you, which ones does he lack? Not learned behaviors but traits.

[penchief]

You said so yourself that your concern about Clausen "winding up" probably isn't a big deal.

I've done my own video watching on Clausen. He's better than Bradford. He's better than Sanchez. He's definitely not just a QB to take for the sake of taking a QB. He's not Jamarcus Russell to the Raiders simply because they had the #1 overall and needed a QB. He's not Josh Freeman bumped up into the first round simply because of the rush on QBs. Hell, he's not even Joe Flacco who's done pretty well for himself.

I have to whole heartedly disagree with you. Clausen is 100% legit, and the value in picking him at #5 is there. I love his character, drive, toughness, and smarts on the field. He would only further excel in this offense under this coordinator. To NOT take him would be compromising draft pick value, not the other way around.

I'm open to being convinced. It's just that so far I'm not. I appreciate your honest attempt to convince me that he's worth a top five pick. Because if we pick him no one will be rooting for his success any more than myself. I'll be looking for reasons to believe.

[Ming the Merciless]

There is no possible way we will be in a position to take a QB half of what Clausen would be to us next year. So if you pass on it now, you pass on it forever. Not all QB's fit all systems, people just for some reason can't seem to grasp that concept. Yeah theres a chance it happens, but drafting Clausen would be the smallest risk of any QB in history. Now, being drafted to another team like Buffalo would be a different story since they don't run the same system. So he would be just as risky for most other teams as any other QB would be for us.

I don't agree with this. There are many scenarios that would give us a top 10 pick next season. I think it is unlikely we will be picking any later than 12th.

And, if we DO have a better season than that, the odds will be that Cassel will have proved he can be the QB for several more seasons to come.

If we pass on Clausen, it will be for these reasons IMO. Also, if we pass on him obviously we know him better than any other team out there at this point...so if we do pass on him it will be for a good reason.

[Blick]

Here is an opinion from a guy who has Clausen ranked ahead of Bradford:

Bradford

Notes:
Was basically just a two-year starter for the Sooners --- Father, Kent, was an offensive lineman at Oklahoma in the late-1970's --- Citizen of the Cherokee tribe --- Won the Heisman Trophy, Davey O'Brien Award and Sammy Baugh Trophy in 2008 --- Earned 1st Team All-American Honors in 2008 --- Was named the Big 12 Offensive Player of the Year and also took home 1st Team All-Conference honors in 2008 --- Led the Sooners to back-to-back Big 12 titles ('07 & '08) and an appearance in the BCS Championship game ('08) --- Set a number of NCAA and school records despite starting just 31 career games in college --- Would most likely have competed with Matthew Stafford to be the #1 overall pick in the 2009 NFL Draft but opted to return to school for another year of development --- Sprained the AC joint in his right (throwing) shoulder in the 2009 season opener --- Tried to come back after missing a couple of games but was reinjured and eventually underwent season-ending surgery in late-October that was performed by the renowned Dr. James Andrews --- Certainly has plenty of positive traits to get excited about but there are also a lot of unknowns and major question marks, including: 1) How will his arm respond after being surgically repaired? 2) Can his body hold up to the pounding it will have to endure at the next level? 3) Will he be able to adapt to a pro style offense or was he simply a product of Oklahoma's system that enabled other quarterbacks like Josh Heupel, Nate Hybl and Jason White to put up huge numbers as well? --- A highly-decorated, prolific signal caller with adequate physical tools and first-rate intangibles --- Could very easily emerge as a successful starter in the NFL but there are also serveral ominous warning signs that indicate a considerable bust factor.

Clausen

Notes:
Was a three-year starter for the Fighting Irish --- Brothers Casey and Rick both played quarterback at Tennessee --- Started getting national media attention in middle school and was labeled the "LeBron James of College Football" --- Was a celebrated recruit who won just about every prep award and honor imaginable --- Began working with highly-regarded quarterback guru Steve Clarkson in the 8th grade then spent three seasons under the tutelage of offensive mastermind Charlie Weis in college --- Underwent surgery to repair a minor injury to the elbow on his throwing arm in 2007 --- Played through a painful toe injury in 2009 that eventually required surgery to repair a couple of torn ligaments following the season --- Voted a captain by his teammates in 2009 --- One of the most prolific passers in Notre Dame history despite only playing three seasons --- Made major strides in the leadership department as a junior, showing a much better on-field demeanor and taking his team on a number of impressive game-winning fourth quarter drives --- Extensive experience running a pro style system, a factor which can't be underestimated in this day and age of the spread offense --- Was essentially groomed to be an NFL quarterback from a very young age and has somehow managed to live up to sky-high expectations in the face of intense scrutiny --- The worry is that some of the Jay Cutler-esque qualities of his personality could begin to take their toll in the locker room if he lands in a bad situation or with a dysfunctional franchise --- A polished signal caller with an outstanding pedigree and all of the tools to be a top-notch starter at the next level.

It's from draftcountdown.com, btw.

[BossChief]

http://www.walterfootball.com/jimmyclausensambradford.php

Everyone should read through this.

[RustShack]

Its pretty simple really, the people who don't like Clausen are the ones who have never seen him play.

[DeezNutz]

According to a lot of people in the business he has all the attributes. According to you, which ones does he lack? Not learned behaviors but traits.

Durability, which has to be the single most pressing red flag.

The hit against BYU simply cannot knock him out of the game, much less knock him out for the year.

[the Talking Can]

Statistically you may be right. But when you watch the manner in which they both get it done there is a noticable difference. I'm not taking anything away from Clausen because he apparently got the job done in college. But Bradford displays all the things you want in a franchise quarterback. All of them. Inculding poise, intelligence, and leadership.

At this point in time I'm just not sold on Clausen being worth the fifth overall pick, even as a quarterback. I'm sure he'll give it a good go but I'm not sold that he's a franchise quarterback. IMHO, Bradford fits that bill way before Clausen does.

Also, playing well in a pro-style offense doesn't guarantee anything. Plenty of touted college quarterbacks have had that advantage and failed in the NFL. One such quarterback played at Notre Dame under Charlie Weiss in a pro-style offense. A lot of people in Cleveland and Miami thought Brady Quinn should have been a top ten pick, too. Just like many here feel that way about Clausen.

I don't think we should take a quarterback at five unless he's worth the fifth overall pick. And I'm not sold on the idea that Clausen is. Whereas, I'd take Bradford at five in a heartbeat.

that's neat, but there is nothing in that post but tautology

and this is hilarious:

But Bradford displays all the things you want in a franchise quarterback. All of them. Inculding poise, intelligence, and leadership.

um, so does Clausen...and if you say he didn't then I want proof...I'd argue he has MORE of all those qualities than Bradford...he spent his whole career operating with a level of duress on the field (bad defense, average OL) and off the field (new coach) that Bradford never had to experience....not to even mention playing through injury

I haven't seen Bradford have to handle 1/10 the stress that Claussen did. And the fact remains that classuen has been groomed in a pro-style offense by a superbowl winning offensive coordinator. And hasn't had his shoulder destroyed twice.

But again, if you have some actual facts to make sense of your baseless claims, I'd be glad to hear them.

[BigMeatballDave]

Clausen will be the best QB from this draft. Bradford could be, but we"ll never know because he"ll get clobbered in St. Louis.

[BigMeatballDave]

I

In many ways, he reminds me of Philip Rivers, right down to the throwing motion.:spock: Not even close. I'm not saying he couldnt be as good as Rivers, I'm saying each others mechanics are nothing alike. Rivers reminds me of Marino.

[milkman]

I do remember reading some posts of yours indicating reservations about Clausen. I believe you had said that while you aren't sold on him, the Chiefs drafting him would excite you solely for the purpose that Pioli was admitting a mistake in Cassel, right? Either way, I honestly don't know enough about projecting QB's to know, so I'd be curious what the reservations are.

His character concerns didn't manifest itself at Notre Dame where he was the unquestioned starter.

In the NFL, if he isn't starting right away, will those concerns become a reality?

I understand that teammates have refuted claims that he isn't liked, but the factis when where there are questions this widespread, there is usually a reason for them.

I'm also concerned about the size of his hands combined with the windup that penchief mentions.

[penchief]

Durability, which has to be the single most pressing red flag.

The hit against BYU simply cannot knock him out of the game, much less knock him out for the year.

I'm not going to argue with you that injuries are a concern. However, the sample size is too small to say that Bradford is incapable of staying healthy. If a team believes he is a franchise quarterback I don't think they can pass on him based on that.

[penchief]

Here is an opinion from a guy who has Clausen ranked ahead of Bradford:

Bradford



Clausen



It's from draftcountdown.com, btw.

And almost all of the quarterback gurus rate Bradford ahead of Clausen. I just got done listening to Phil Simms talk about how Bradford was head and shoulders above anyone else in the draft and was clearly worthy of the number one overall pick.

Listen, I'm not trying to take anything away from Clausen. It's just that Bradford looks like an elite passer.

[Mr. Laz]

So you're claiming that there is absolutely nothing special about Clausen?
i merely wanted to discuss the topic

[penchief]

that's neat, but there is nothing in that post but tautology

and this is hilarious:



um, so does Clausen...and if you say he didn't then I want proof...I'd argue he has MORE of all those qualities than Bradford...he spent his whole career operating with a level of duress on the field (bad defense, average OL) and off the field (new coach) that Bradford never had to experience....not to even mention playing through injury

I haven't seen Bradford have to handle 1/10 the stress that Claussen did. And the fact remains that classuen has been groomed in a pro-style offense by a superbowl winning offensive coordinator. And hasn't had his shoulder destroyed twice.

But again, if you have some actual facts to make sense of your baseless claims, I'd be glad to hear them.

Where did I say Clausen didn't exhibit those qualities (intelligence, leadership, poise)? Absolutely nowhere. I haven't questioned that. In fact, from everything I've read and seen, I would give him high marks for those things.

My reason for including those things in that post was to defend my claim that Bradford possessed all the traits that scouts look for in a franchise quarterback, including those intangibles.

Where I believe Bradford separates himself from Clausen is as a passer. Bradford looks like the prototype pocket passer while making it seem effortless. Clausen doesn't.

It's very difficult to debate on this board because everyone comes to the table with their own agenda. It seems like everyone wants to make their own inferences instead of acutally reading and understanding what was posted.

[penchief]

Its pretty simple really, the people who don't like Clausen are the ones who have never seen him play.

I saw more than a couple Notre Dame games during his tenure. That said, I didn't focus on his play thinking that he might be a prospect for the chiefs. Which is why I went back and viewed several highlight videos.

I'm not saying he won't be good. If we pick him I'm going to hope like hell he is. All I'm doing is expressiing concerns that I have based on what I've seen. I don't know why that is getting some people so worked up.

[milkman]

Where did I say Clausen didn't exhibit those qualities (intelligence, leadership, poise)? Absolutely nowhere. I haven't questioned that. In fact, from everything I've read and seen, I would give him high marks for those things.

My reason for including those things in that post was to defend my claim that Bradford possessed all the traits that scouts look for in a franchise quarterback, including those intangibles.

Where I believe Bradford separates himself from Clausen is as a passer. Bradford looks like the prototype pocket passer while making it seem effortless. Clausen doesn't.

It's very difficult to debate on this board because everyone comes to the table with their own agenda. It seems like everyone wants to make their own inferences instead of acutally reading and understanding what was posted.

I agree with you on much of your speculation, which is all any of us are doing, but I don't know how you can claim that Bradford looks like the prototype pocket passer when he never played in a system that utilizes a prototype pocket passer.

[penchief]

I agree with you on much of your speculation, which is all any of us are doing, but I don't know how you can claim that Bradford looks like the prototype pocket passer when he never played in a system that utilizes a prototype pocket passer.

The same reason many people are projecting him that way. Because of his physical tools and his passing motion. He gets rid of the ball with ease and accuracy. Granted, he's going to have to learn a few things (as most everyone will). But the traits are there.

I'm not sure that working out of ths shotgun disqualifies anyone as a pocket passer. Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and Kurt Warner were all pretty good pocket passers. That's just three examples of damn good pocket passers who worked out of the shotgun a lot.

Like you said, it's all speculation. All any us of are doing is projecting players at this point. Based on Bradfords's physical tools and passing ability he looks like he could easily develop into a prototypical pocket passer.

[milkman]

Because of his physical tools and his passing motion. He gets rid of the ball with ease and accuracy. Granted, he's going to have to learn a few things (as most everyone will). But the traits are there.

I'm not sure that working out of ths shotgun disqualifies anyone as a pocket passer. Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and Kurt Warner were all pretty good pocket passers. That's just three examples of damn good pocket passers who worked out of the shotgun a lot.

Like you said, it's all speculation. All any us of are doing is projecting players at this point. Based on Bradfords's size and passing ability he looks like he could easily develop into a prototypical pocket passer.

Working out of the shotgun, as has been pointed out numerous times, is not the same as working out of a spread.

And a prototype pocket passer has to be able to stand in the pocket and release the ball in the face of pressure, which means that the question about Bradford's durability has to be answered before the claim can be made that he has the protypical tools.

[Reaper16]

The same reason many people are projecting him that way. Because of his physical tools and his passing motion. He gets rid of the ball with ease and accuracy. Granted, he's going to have to learn a few things (as most everyone will). But the traits are there.

I'm not sure that working out of ths shotgun disqualifies anyone as a pocket passer. Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and Kurt Warner were all pretty good pocket passers. That's just three examples of damn good pocket passers who worked out of the shotgun a lot.

Like you said, it's all speculation. All any us of are doing is projecting players at this point. Based on Bradfords's physical tools and passing ability he looks like he could easily develop into a prototypical pocket passer.
The problem with this forum is that people never read even when explanations are given dozens upon dozens of times.

[notorious]

Rivers reminds me of Marino.


Wow.


Marino had one of the quickest releases in history. Monster arm.


Rivers has a hanging motion and his throws take days to come down. I honestly have no idea how he rarely gets picked off.

[penchief]

Working out of the shotgun, as has been pointed out numerous times, is not the same as working out of a spread.

And a prototype pocket passer has to be able to stand in the pocket and release the ball in the face of pressure, which means that the question about Bradford's durability has to be answered before the claim can be made that he has the protypical tools.

The durability is a question. But it's only a question. I don't think it should be a factor when evaluating his ability. I don't think there is any question about his ability to get rid of the ball. That's where I think he'll have the advantage over Clausen. His ability to get rid of the ball efficiently and accurately without a lot of effort leads me to believe he will do better in traffic without needing the time or space to wind up or without having to run around and imporovise.

[penchief]

The problem with this forum is that people never read even when explanations are given dozens upon dozens of times.

That may be so on other threads but I haven't been a particiapant on many of those threads. Maybe you could be kind enough to explain it to me.

I'm not saying all good shotgun quarterbacks are good pocket passers. I'm simply saying that a gimmick offenses doesn't necessarily mean a quarterback doesn't have the phyical tools or the traits that make a good pocket passer.

Conversely, I don't believe that working out of a pro-style set in college means that a quarterback is going to be a good pocket passer in the pros. The two specific questions that I've raised about Clausen are based on my concerns that he may not be able to function as well in the pocket when facing pro defenses (his windup motion and his propensity to abondon the pocket in favor of rolling out to the right).

[DeezNutz]

That may be so on other threads but I haven't been a particiapant on many of those threads. Maybe you could be kind enough to explain it to me.

I'm not saying all good shotgun quarterbacks are good pocket passers. I'm simply saying that a gimmick offenses doesn't necessarily mean a quarterback doesn't ahve the phyical tools or the traits that make a good pocket passer.

Fine, but you need to be able to make a convincing argument with specific evidence for why he'll be able to make the transition.

Because it's far from a given. It's not a maturation or a natural evolution.

[penchief]

Fine, but you need to be able to make a convincing argument with specific evidence for why he'll be able to make the transition.

Because it's far from a given. It's not a maturation or a natural evolution.

Gimmick offenses aren't dictated by nature. Just because he worked out of the spread doesn't mean it his natural system. My guess is that Bradford was inserted into that system and not the other way around.

Just because he was efficient in a gimmick offense doesn't mean he doesn't have the physical tools or the traits to be effective in a more traditional pro-style offense.

In fact, when evaluations are made it is those physical tools and player attributes (including intangibles) that are evaluated. That process appears to have yielded Bradford at the top of the draft by people wiser than you or I. Somebody in the know must see something that leads them to believe he is going to be a franchise quarterback.

[Reaper16]

That may be so on other threads but I haven't been a particiapant on many of those threads. Maybe you could be kind enough to explain it to me.


They are easily searchable. But to try and condense it into a few sentences: the spread is not the same thing as a shotgun set. College spread offenses are read-option based with the linemen all spread out. The passing plays ran in them are often one-read at the most. Its a whole different world than the pro QB lining up in shotgun.

[DeezNutz]

Gimmick offenses aren't dictated by nature. Just because he worked out of the spread doesn't mean it his natural system. My guess is that Bradford was inserted into that system and not the other way around.

Just because he was efficient in a gimmick offense doesn't mean he doesn't have the physical tools or the traits to be effective in a more traditional pro-style offense.

In fact, when evaluations are made it is those physical tools and player attributes (including intangibles) that are evaluated. That process appears to have yielded Bradford at the top of the draft by people wiser than you or I. Somebody in the know must see something that leads them to believe he is going to be a franchise quarterback.

I hate these lines.

The Executive of the Century took Tyson Jackson at #3 overall last year. Please explain the wisdom of that move. And he's, allegedly, the best GM in the game, since he's being paid like it.

[penchief]

They are easily searchable. But to try and condense it into a few sentences: the spread is not the same thing as a shotgun set. College spread offenses are read-option based with the linemen all spread out. The passing plays ran in them are often one-read at the most. Its a whole different world than the pro QB lining up in shotgun.

I already understand all of that. But Bradford nor Clausen are being evaluated on the systems they played in college. They are being evaluated on their physical tools and their traits.

To say that Clausen will be better than Bradford because of the system he played in is silly, IMO. Does it give him an initial advantage in making the transition? Absolutely. Especially if he steps right into the same Charlie Wiess offense. But that alone is not reason enough to proclaim him the superior prospect.

And to suggest that Bradford doesn't have the physical tools or the intangibles to be an effective pocket passer just because of the system he played in is also silly, IMO.

That is not how those who are payed to evaluate talent do it so I don't know why we would do it that way here. If it were that way Clausen would be universally recognized as the top quarterback prospect in the draft, which he is not.

[Reaper16]

But Bradford nor Clausen are being evaluated on the systems they played in college. They are being evaluated on their physical tools and their traits.

To say that Clausen will be better than Bradford because of the system he played in is silly, IMO. Does it give him an initial advantage in making the transition? Absolutely. Especially if he steps right into the same Charlie Wiess offense. But that alone is not reason enough to proclaim him the superior prospect.

And to suggest that Bradford doesn't have the physical tools or the intangibles to be an effective pocket passer just because of the system he played in is also silly, IMO.

That is not how those who are payed to evaluate talent do it so I don't know why we would do it that way here. If it were that way Clausen would be universally recognized as the top quarterback prospect in the draft, which he is not.
I agree with all of this.

I already understand all of that.
Then you betrayed your own understanding with that post you made aerlier.

[penchief]

I hate these lines.

The Executive of the Century took Tyson Jackson at #3 overall last year. Please explain the wisdom of that move. And he's, allegedly, the best GM in the game, since he's being paid like it.

I agree with your sentiment and I generally refrain from using those lines. However, there is a distinction between one man's opinion and nearly universal opinion.

However, in the end it is all speculation. Clausen's intangibles may very well prove him to be the better quarterback. If anyone knew anything with certainty Tom Brady wouldn't have been a seventh rounder and Ryan Leaf wouldn't have been the second overall.

All any of us are doing is speculating. Which is why I find it odd that some people are so certain of themselves and their opinions that they randomly dismiss or belittle any opionions that differ from their own.

[DeezNutz]

All any of us are doing is speculating. Which is why I find it odd that some people are so certain of themselves and their opinions that they randomly dismiss or belittle any opionions that differ from their own.

No one has done that in this thread, that I have seen.

[penchief]

I agree with all of this.


Then you betrayed your own understanding with that post you made aerlier.

I see what you're saying but a big part of the spread offense is working out of the shotgun and standing in the pocket. On that count the spread argument is moot, IMO. I think the bigger questions for a spread quarterback are his ability to take snaps under center and his footwork. I think Bradford has already answered those questions. His ability to read defenses will depend on his ability to process information. By all accounts, scouts are not at all concerned about that.

[penchief]

No one has done that in this thread, that I have seen.

Sure they have. Milkman and SNR are the only ones who've actually addressed the two questions I've raised. Most everyone else who disagrees has tried to infer something other than what I actually said or has tried to insinuate that I don't know what I'm talking about without even trying to address the specifics of those concerns.

[SAUTO]

Dude, please.

You can't judge a player's three year career by two YouTube videos.

Please, please, please tell me that this is not why and where your opinion has been formed.

Please.

in deez' thread he bumped from a couple of months ago some that want him now wanted nothing to do with him then. What changed their opinion?


Some youtube highlight videos. why is that ok but not ok for the guys that have concerns?
Posted via Mobile Device

[milkman]

in deez' thread he bumped from a couple of months ago some that want him now wanted nothing to do with him then. What changed their opinion?


Some youtube highlight videos. why is that ok but not ok for the guys that have concerns?
Posted via Mobile Device

I think for many of those that changed their minds, it has as much, or more, to do with Charlie Weis as it does with YouTube.

[Reaper16]

in deez' thread he bumped from a couple of months ago some that want him now wanted nothing to do with him then. What changed their opinion?


Some youtube highlight videos. why is that ok but not ok for the guys that have concerns?
Posted via Mobile Device
Not to sound like a jackass, but it was probably posters here that convinced them, not YouTube highlight clips.

[Reaper16]

I think for many of those that changed their minds, it has as much, or more, to do with Charlie Weis as it does with YouTube.
Him too.

[SAUTO]

I think for many of those that changed their minds, it has as much, or more, to do with Charlie Weis as it does with YouTube.

one poster even said that he was sorry he said what he did before he really, reviewed the tape, i think were his words. i cant search from the phone but im pretty sure it was pretty close to that. search and post it if you like.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

hamas said he wanted to wait in an ideal situation until next year, BUT thought clausen might be our last chance on a top qb. so basically he would take clausen just to take a qb high
Posted via Mobile Device

[milkman]

one poster even said that he was sorry he said what he did before he really, reviewed the tape, i think were his words. i cant search from the phone but im pretty sure it was pretty close to that. search and post it if you like.
Posted via Mobile Device

I was generalizing, and I could also be wrong.

But my money says that the majority of posters that have changed their mind have doe so because of Weis.

[milkman]

hamas said he wanted to wait in an ideal situation until next year, BUT thought clausen might be our last chance on a top qb. so basically he would take clausen just to take a qb high
Posted via Mobile Device

That would be one of only two reasons that taking Clausen would not piss me off.

[SAUTO]

I was generalizing, and I could also be wrong.

But my money says that the majority of posters that have changed their mind have doe so because of Weis.

you could be right about the majority, put me there. the weis connection would make me excited to pick the guy.

but like i said there are some here with such an ego that they had to review those you tube highlights to know clausen was going to be great because before that they said that josh freeman was a better prospect than clausen. and that was in december IIRC
Posted via Mobile Device

[DeezNutz]

hamas said he wanted to wait in an ideal situation until next year, BUT thought clausen might be our last chance on a top qb. so basically he would take clausen just to take a qb high
Posted via Mobile Device

The language of your own post shows where you're wrong.

A "top QB" is not the same as "a QB."

This is the same as my statement that a Clausen in the hand is worth more than a Gabbert in the bush.

Which would I prefer? The latter.

But I can't make a decision today based on some faint hope for tomorrow.

[SAUTO]

The language of your own post shows where you're wrong.

A "top QB" is not the same as "a QB."

This is the same as my statement that a Clausen in the hand is worth more than a Gabbert in the bush.

Which would I prefer? The latter.

But I can't make a decision today based on some faint hope for tomorrow.

the thing about that is some have clausen dropping. most top qbs dont have that attached to them. not stafford, not bradford. where are the guys projecting them to drop?
Posted via Mobile Device

[DeezNutz]

the thing about that is some have clausen dropping. most top qbs dont have that attached to them. not stafford, not bradford. where are the guys projecting them to drop?
Posted via Mobile Device

I fundamentally disagree with the evaluations of Bradford, so it's hard for me to get beyond this point.

If you watch the Gruden QB camp, however, I think it's pretty clear the player whom he prefers.

"What is it about you and the 4th quarter, Jimmy?!?" slobber slobber slobber.

[Mr. Laz]

in deez' thread he bumped from a couple of months ago some that want him now wanted nothing to do with him then. What changed their opinion?


Some youtube highlight videos. why is that ok but not ok for the guys that have concerns?
Posted via Mobile Device
i always thought he was a possibility

i went back and watch 60% of his snaps this last season. I was gonna watch them all but he's pretty feakin consistent.

A workmanlike QB who gets the job done ... nothing flashy.


reason i started the tread is because i wondered if anyone else saw something "flashy" that would lead them to think Clausen could be elite.

[SAUTO]

I fundamentally disagree with the evaluations of Bradford, so it's hard for me to get beyond this point.

If you watch the Gruden QB camp, however, I think it's pretty clear the player whom he prefers.

"What is it about you and the 4th quarter, Jimmy?!?" slobber slobber slobber.

I would rather have jimmy myself, but he does have his detractors. you mention gruden. hes just one guy. most have bradford as the 1. hes the consensus no 1. some are projecting jimmy to fall. why? why would they projecg such a cant miss prospect to fall with so many top drafting teams needing a qb?

small hands?
not great height?
not the heaviest guy?( gained 19 lbs to get to around 220iirc)
may or may not be a head case? ( you know be a douchebag)
i see these things and it makes me pause but with weis on board.....
Posted via Mobile Device

[DeezNutz]

I would rather have jimmy myself, but he does have his detractors. you mention gruden. hes just one guy. most have bradford as the 1. hes the consensus no 1. some are projecting jimmy to fall. why? why would they projecg such a cant miss prospect to fall with so many top drafting teams needing a qb?

small hands?
not great height?
not the heaviest guy?( gained 19 lbs to get to around 220iirc)
may or may not be a head case? ( you know be a douchebag)
i see these things and it makes me pause but with weis on board.....
Posted via Mobile Device

Hand size and wind-up are the two biggest concerns. No question that those are on the table and need to be reconciled by the team who selects him.

They wouldn't deter me.

[SAUTO]

Hand size and wind-up are the two biggest concerns. No question that those are on the table and need to be reconciled by the team who selects him.

They wouldn't deter me.

yep i forgot the wind up. i would be ok but because of weis. otherwise the guy has a ton of question marks.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DeezNutz]

yep i forgot the wind up. i would be ok but because of weis. otherwise the guy has a ton of question marks.
Posted via Mobile Device

Not even close to a ton.

Solid and highly projectable prospect.

[Saccopoo]

I was generalizing, and I could also be wrong.

But my money says that the majority of posters that have changed their mind have doe so because of Weis.

I think that's the one argument that you can make regarding Clausen as a potential pick for the Chiefs - the familiarity in the system run by Weis. It's a factor, but I don't think that it's as big a factor as people are making it out to be. First off, he or any other rookie quarterback that we might take in this draft aren't going to start, and wouldn't likely see the field at all for the entire 2010 season. So, any quarterback that we would take, outside a guy like "Hot tub" Leinhart or "Vegas" Russell, would be expected to do a fair amount of studying and practicing and playing in the Weis system even before they were allowed/expected to be on the football field. After a year in the NFL in that system, I wouldn't hesitate to make the assumption that any quarterback would be, at that point, familiar with the system. To me, that Clausen is familiar with Weis' system is a non-issue in terms of how he equates to other potential rookie quarterbacks in terms of being the Chiefs first round draft pick.

So, one needs to look at his intangibles versus his "familiarity" with a specific system. (Again, the Chiefs aren't going to start a rookie quarterback this season regardless if it's John Elway, Fran Tarkenton, or Jimmy Clausen.)

Actually, I think one first needs to look at what he'd be competing with in terms of what the Chiefs currently have on the roster and ask what does/would Jimmy Clausen give you at this point over Matt Cassel, Brodie Croyle or Matt Gutierrrez?

Then there are the physical intangibles that one needs to consider.

1. Small Hands
- Clausen tied for the smallest hands measured at the combine.

2. Short Arms
- Second shortest arms of all QB's measured at the combine.

3. 3/4 Delivery
- Combine with the short arms, he'll really have to work to get the ball up, over and through NFL defensive fronts.

4. Lack of Mobility
- For his career, Clausen has -355 rushing yards. In his stellar junior season, he only ran for positive yardage (game total) twice - for one single yard each time.

5. One Year Wonder?
- He had 28 touchdowns and a mere 4 interceptions his junior year, but the previous year, he had 25 touchdowns and 17 interceptions. There were numerous games his freshman year where he was pulled from a game because of turnovers, bad throws, etc.

6. Win/Loss Record
- For all the hype, Clausen leaves Notre Dame with a 16-18 career win/loss record.

7. Early Entry
- Quarterbacks entering the NFL draft prior to their senior seasons have generally had trouble transitioning to the pro game.

8. Product of the System?
- Clausen, from an early age, was groomed to be a NFL quarterback. He trained with quarterback coaches early on, and both of his brothers were D1 quarterbacks. Is he more of a Todd Marinovich than a Joe Montana?

I personally don't see Clausen as anything above and beyond a player like Max Hall of BYU. Both have been termed as being cocky/arrogant, both are smaller than the current NFL prototype for the position, with smaller hands and shorter arms. However, both put up excellent numbers in what could be termed more pro-style sets. Both are considered to be accurate passers with good, but not great arm strength. Both benefitted from offensive schemes that focused on the passing game and both had excellent receivers during their careers. (Hall's career numbers and win-loss were susbtantially better than Clausen's numbers though.)

[SAUTO]

Not even close to a ton.

Solid and highly projectable prospect.

so we have: winds up, not prototypical height or weight or hands and might be a douche. thats quite a bit of negative

and we have positives: played in a proset with our oc for 3 years. accurate, decent arm, and again Experience on OUR offense.

IMO that outweighs the negatives but its pretty close.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Tribal Warfare]

Okay the abilities that Clausen has are Cassel's weakness. Clausen has great natural timing and anticipation to deliver the ball to the WR without breaking stride, he spreads the ball around and doesn't lock on to WRs, has an NFL quality arm,accuracy, and has is stone cold composed through out the game even when he makes mistakes.

[Ming the Merciless]

1. Small Hands
- Clausen tied for the smallest hands measured at the combine.

2. Short Arms
- Second shortest arms of all QB's measured at the combine.

3. 3/4 Delivery
- Combine with the short arms, he'll really have to work to get the ball up, over and through NFL defensive fronts.

4. Lack of Mobility
- For his career, Clausen has -355 rushing yards. In his stellar junior season, he only ran for positive yardage (game total) twice - for one single yard each time.

5. One Year Wonder?
- He had 28 touchdowns and a mere 4 interceptions his junior year, but the previous year, he had 25 touchdowns and 17 interceptions. There were numerous games his freshman year where he was pulled from a game because of turnovers, bad throws, etc.

6. Win/Loss Record
- For all the hype, Clausen leaves Notre Dame with a 16-18 career win/loss record.

7. Early Entry
- Quarterbacks entering the NFL draft prior to their senior seasons have generally had trouble transitioning to the pro game.

8. Product of the System?
- Clausen, from an early age, was groomed to be a NFL quarterback. He trained with quarterback coaches early on, and both of his brothers were D1 quarterbacks. Is he more of a Todd Marinovich than a Joe Montana?


Excellent post and points. I do not think we will draft him with our #5, even though he is Weiss's boy. The more I think about it the more I am convinced that the FO is going to make a solid, safe move and plan on having another top 10 pick next season. I don't think Clausen can be defined as a safe pick.

[Ralphy Boy]

yea ... but knowing a pro style offense is really just a head start, isn't it?

eventually that will even out unless Bradford,Tebow,McCoy have some inability to learn.

I don't think so. Learning a pro-style offense is never easy, but it is easier to do in college than the NFL. The spread guys may never be able to learn it while they are adjusting to faster game speed against more complex defenses.

You could make the argument that all things are relative, better talent at their own teams offensive positions, but the game speed and complexity of the defenses they face is what sets them apart, IMO.


While I was higher on Sanchez because of Mark's upside, Jimmy is a better prospect right now, today. Potential doesn't mean shit until it's realized.


I did not then, nor do I now, think Sanchez's upside is greater than Clausen. I'll acknowledge that Sanchez has a certain "it" factor that you look for but I wouldn't say that Clausen does not have "it".

[Ralphy Boy]

5. One Year Wonder?
- He had 28 touchdowns and a mere 4 interceptions his junior year, but the previous year, he had 25 touchdowns and 17 interceptions. There were numerous games his freshman year where he was pulled from a game because of turnovers, bad throws, etc.

6. Win/Loss Record
- For all the hype, Clausen leaves Notre Dame with a 16-18 career win/loss record.

7. Early Entry
- Quarterbacks entering the NFL draft prior to their senior seasons have generally had trouble transitioning to the pro game.

8. Product of the System?
- Clausen, from an early age, was groomed to be a NFL quarterback. He trained with quarterback coaches early on, and both of his brothers were D1 quarterbacks. Is he more of a Todd Marinovich than a Joe Montana?


Very good points, but I chose to quote the parts that I would argue against.
You can't really knock Clausen for the W/L record of the team. He was the only reason they were in several games.

As far as "early entry" I think the more important factor is number of starts. In that regard, Clausen is a much more established and less of a question mark than Mark Sanchez.

"One year wonder" this is silly. His best year was his last year in the system. Clausen got better every year in every category of importance.

[RealSNR]

yep i forgot the wind up. i would be ok but because of weis. otherwise the guy has a ton of question marks.
Posted via Mobile DeviceAgain, I don't get these question marks. He has a great deal fewer question marks than Bradford. And even fewer than McCoy, Tebow, and all those assholes.

[Tribal Warfare]

Again, I don't get these question marks. He has a great deal fewer question marks than Bradford. And even fewer than McCoy, Tebow, and all those assholes.

During this period most people look at what a prospect can't do, rather what they can do. Which is why they can't see how the pros out weigh the cons.

[SAUTO]

During this period most people look at what a prospect can't do, rather what they can do. Which is why they can't see how the pros out weigh the cons.

can you read? go ahead and blame what you miss on the brail translation. i said in a post that for me the pros outweigh the cons.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Tribal Warfare]

can you read? go ahead and blame what you miss on the brail translation. i said in a post that for me the pros outweigh the cons.
Posted via Mobile Device


What he can do is alot more than Cassel can, hence the my statement

[SAUTO]

What he can do is alot more than Cassel can, hence the my statement

this post makes absolutely no sense with this thread, im gonna blame your spoken word to brail translator
Posted via Mobile Device

[Tribal Warfare]

this post makes absolutely no sense with this thread, im gonna blame your spoken word to brail translator
Posted via Mobile Device

Sure it does, everything equates to what KC has now with the opportunity of having a player that will run Weis's offense with great continuity. Of course your next response will be " LOL, bullshit Cassel will be fine and is better than Clausen because Jimmy has too many questions." face it man you are are in love with any mobile QB that wears the KC Chiefs Arrowhead. Now after I said that your next response will be along the lines of " give me a fuckin break, you're on Croyle's cock more than anyone on the BB." My next response will be " Croyle has the talent, while Cassel is treated with kit gloves like no other QB in the NFL."

The cycle continues around and around

[SAUTO]

Sure it does, everything equates to what KC has now with the opportunity of having a player that will run Weis's offense with great continuity. Of course your next response will be " LOL, bullshit Cassel will be fine and is better than Clausen because Jimmy has too many questions." face it man you are are in love with any mobile QB that wears the KC Chiefs Arrowhead. Now after I said that your next response will be along the lines of " give me a fuckin break, you're on Croyle's cock more than anyone on the BB." My next response will be " Croyle has the talent, while Cassel is treated with kit gloves like no other QB in the NFL."

The cycle continues around and around

again you show that you have missed this whole thread.

pssst. its about clausen and the other draft prospects.

i hope if its between clausen and bradford we would select clausen. i also think that we should take either: 1 berry or 2 clausen. those are the only two players worthy of the kansas city chiefs drafting at five. i hope we dont trade down UNLESS we totally ass rape the other team, like two firsts plus...


now tell me where cassel or croyle fit in that conversation. they dont and i would fire your fucking translator.
Posted via Mobile Device

[-King-]

Sure it does, everything equates to what KC has now with the opportunity of having a player that will run Weis's offense with great continuity. Of course your next response will be " LOL, bullshit Cassel will be fine and is better than Clausen because Jimmy has too many questions." face it man you are are in love with any mobile QB that wears the KC Chiefs Arrowhead. Now after I said that your next response will be along the lines of " give me a fuckin break, you're on Croyle's cock more than anyone on the BB." My next response will be " Croyle has the talent, while Cassel is treated with kit gloves like no other QB in the NFL."

The cycle continues around and around

Milkman has called you stupid many times, but damn, he may be right.


Jason said that he would take Clausen and that Clausens pros outweigh his cons. Wtf are you talking about?

[Tribal Warfare]

again you show that you have missed this whole thread.

pssst. its about clausen and the other draft prospects.



No joke, when I was referencing the pros and cons did I mention you? No I didn't I was making a general statement that you conveniently included yourself in. It's quite apparent you are arguing just for the sake of being argumentative.

[SAUTO]

No joke, when I was referencing the pros and cons did I mention you? No I didn't I was making a general statement that you conveniently included yourself in. It's quite apparent you are arguing just for the sake of being argumentative.

swing and another miss. when you said that yoy quoted a post that was directly quoting my post about his negatives. again...... read.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Tribal Warfare]

Milkman has called you stupid many times, but damn, he may be right.


Jason said that he would take Clausen and that Clausens pros outweigh his cons. Wtf are you talking about?



It's the idea of some individuals just don't like me period. I was making a general statement, but someone thought I was making a slight that was directed towards them.

[SAUTO]

It's the idea of some individuals just don't like me period. I was making a general statement, but someone thought I was making a slight that was directed towards them.

read post above. and ftr i dont dislike you, you are annoying with the repetitive posts.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Tribal Warfare]

read post above. and ftr i dont dislike you, you are annoying with the repetitive posts.
Posted via Mobile Device

Everyone here does the exact same thing.

[SAUTO]

Everyone here does the exact same thing.

i disagree most dont copy and paste the same shit word for word like you and mecca. 10 times a thread
Posted via Mobile Device

[Tribal Warfare]

i disagree most dont copy and paste the same shit word for word like you and mecca. 10 times a thread
Posted via Mobile Device

I don't copy and paste my comments at all, outside the news I post that's it.

[SAUTO]

I don't copy and paste my comments at all, outside the news I post that's it.

that translator again....
Posted via Mobile Device

[Tribal Warfare]

that translator again....
Posted via Mobile Device

:facepalm:

[Mr. Laz]

that translator again....
Posted via Mobile Devicei believe Tribal belongs to the group that wants an improvement at QB no matter when,where,how.

He thinks Clausen is better than Cassel so nothing else matters.

[BossChief]

some of you guys care about personal vendettas more than the conversation at hand, its a shame.

[Nightfyre]

How can you question Clausen as anything but a winner? He CARRIED that team. He can make the NFL throws and has much better arm strength than depicted in his Junior year highlights because his follow-through is much better post surgery. This will also help him tighten his throwing motion, which he has been working on.

[Ralphy Boy]

Don't care to re-read the entire thread to see if this is on here, but there's a pretty good comparison on WalterFootball.com (http://www.walterfootball.com/jimmyclausensambradford.php) comparing the two.

[Saccopoo]

How can you question Clausen as anything but a winner? He CARRIED that team.

He was 16-18 as a starter.

He had two NFL level offensive lineman. (Olsen and Young.)

He had two premiere NFL level wide receivers in Tate and Floyd.

That's a hell of a lot more than most college quarterbacks ever get to work with.

Don't try to make it out like he had nothing to work with. He had a hell of a lot more to work with than the vast majority of college teams out there.

[KCUnited]

Guy was just on Rome and gave a great interview, imo. Came across as calm, confident, and enjoying himself in this process. I can see where some people might take that as cockiness, I can also see those people as being somewhat insecure with themselves.

[Mr. Laz]

Guy was just on Rome and gave a great interview, imo. Came across as calm, confident, and enjoying himself in this process. I can see where some people might take that as cockiness, I can also see those people as being somewhat insecure with themselves.
wow ... that's a new one ROFL

If you think Clausen acts cocky then it's you that is the problem ... you're insecure with yourself.

[The Franchise]

He was 16-18 as a starter.

He had two NFL level offensive lineman. (Olsen and Young.)

He had two premiere NFL level wide receivers in Tate and Floyd.

That's a hell of a lot more than most college quarterbacks ever get to work with.

Don't try to make it out like he had nothing to work with. He had a hell of a lot more to work with than the vast majority of college teams out there.

LMAO Dude...Olsen and Young won't go before the 5th round.

Clausen had no running game to bail him out. He also had no fucking defense to back him up. I'll give you Tate and Floyd....but don't act like he had fucking Bradford's team to work with.

[The Franchise]

wow ... that's a new one ROFL

If you think Clausen acts cocky then it's you that is the problem ... you're insecure with yourself.

Ummm yeah.....that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

[Mr. Laz]

Ummm yeah.....that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
did you read what United said ... imo that's basically what he implied.

[DaWolf]

Everything else aside, Jimmy has experience playing for teams that had no defense and lost a lot. So he'd be very comfortable playing for the Chiefs.

But seriously, I'm sure that situation at ND developed a mental toughness and resiliency in him that he'll bring to the next level. So I think that he'll have a better chance to succeed with a crappy team and put in the work to help make that team better over time, rather than one of these guys who has experienced nothing but success and has no idea how to handle failure, which ends up ruining a lot of draft picks. That's why I think if Oakland ends up drafting him, he's got the makeup to handle that situation and not let it ruin him, which would be bad news...

[KCUnited]

wow ... that's a new one ROFL

If you think Clausen acts cocky then it's you that is the problem ... you're insecure with yourself.
If people can pull cocky out of confident, I can pull insecurity out of satisfaction with mediocrity.

[The Franchise]

did you read what United said ... imo that's basically what he implied.

Yeah...that's what I was referring too.

[Mr. Laz]

Everything else aside, Jimmy has experience playing for teams that had no defense and lost a lot. So he'd be very comfortable playing for the Chiefs.

But seriously, I'm sure that situation at ND developed a mental toughness and resiliency in him that he'll bring to the next level. So I think that he'll have a better chance to succeed with a crappy team and put in the work to help make that team better over time, rather than one of these guys who has experienced nothing but success and has no idea how to handle failure, which ends up ruining a lot of draft picks. That's why I think if Oakland ends up drafting him, he's got the makeup to handle that situation and not let it ruin him, which would be bad news...
I agree ... he's had deal with team and expectational pressure which bodes well for the NFL.

[Mr. Laz]

Yeah...that's what I was referring too.

actually ... he was

If people can pull cocky out of confident, I can pull insecurity out of satisfaction with mediocrity.

[Mr. Laz]

If people can pull cocky out of confident, I can pull insecurity out of satisfaction with mediocrity.
and there we go ... back to the basics

Anyone that expresses any doubt about any possible QBoTF candidate really doesn't want to win.

it's the circular logic that draftubators used because they don't know WTF they are talking so they just make silly shit up.

you would be hard pressed to find a bigger group of asshats in the known universe.

[Chiefnj2]

Lets' also not forget the Notre Dame schedule. How many away games did they have this year, maybe 4? How many ranked teams did they play?

[Sully]

Excellent post and points. I do not think we will draft him with our #5, even though he is Weiss's boy. The more I think about it the more I am convinced that the FO is going to make a solid, safe move and plan on having another top 10 pick next season. I don't think Clausen can be defined as a safe pick.

How is pointing out that he was better his Jnior year than sophomore year, which he was better than his freshman year, an excellent point?

[Sully]

I really don't get the argument against being "cocky." I noticed it a lot during the last pres election, have seen it grow against Pioli, and now against Clausen.

Bottom line, to me, is that I want a leader to be cocky. I want him to know he can get the job done, not hope that if everything works out okay, then maybe we'll do okay.

Cue the "Bear with big claws" speech from Swingers.

[The Franchise]

Excellent post and points. I do not think we will draft him with our #5, even though he is Weiss's boy. The more I think about it the more I am convinced that the FO is going to make a solid, safe move and plan on having another top 10 pick next season. I don't think Clausen can be defined as a safe pick.

If this FO is planning on having another Top 10 pick next year.....then they need to be fucking fired....all of them.

[Mr. Laz]

I really don't get the argument against being "cocky." I noticed it a lot during the last pres election, have seen it grow against Pioli, and now against Clausen.

Bottom line, to me, is that I want a leader to be cocky. I want him to know he can get the job done, not hope that if everything works out okay, then maybe we'll do okay.

Cue the "Bear with big claws" speech from Swingers.
imo their is a difference between cocky and confident

you are talking about confident imo

i don't think anyone knows whether it's confident or cocky with Clausen. They just worry.

i would hope that Weis would know ... so i'll just trust his opinion on the matter.

If weis wants Clausen then it's all good.

[Sully]

imo their is a difference between cocky and confident

you are talking about confident imo

i don't think anyone knows whether it's confident or cocky with Clausen. They just worry.

i would hope that Weis would know ... so i'll just trust his opinion on the matter.

If weis wants Clausen then it's all good.

It's a fine line, sure. But, IMO, if we were to go into an NFL lockerroom, we'd hate 99% of the guys if Clausen is the flag carrier for "cocky."

[Bill Lundberg]

He's on Sirius right now if anyone's interested.