Would you trade Dorsey if....?

[chiefzilla1501]

Sorry, I hate playing the speculation game. But let me throw out a scenario.

Would you consider trading Dorsey if you felt that a 5-technique like Alualu or Carlos Dunlap with the second pick in the second round? And if so, what value would you insist upon?

I've always said Dorsey's value is in a 4-3 and he's overachieving right now in a 3-4. If you make the trade and you get one of these guys, you could end up with two very high second round picks. If, say for example, you made this trade to the Lions. And with Dorsey's value, who knows, maybe you also get a lower pick like a 5th as a cherry on top?

[Mecca]

Carlos Dunlap is not a 5 tech, so uh you should remove him right away.

[OnTheWarpath15]

If I'm trading Dorsey, I'm sure as hell not wasting another high pick on a goddamn 5-technique.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

No. I wouldn't trade him. At all.

[Ebolapox]

I'm not trading him if it's me. now, if ty-jack comes around and we can get a late first or, fuck, a second rounder out of him? fuck yes.

[KCChiefsMan]

I'd trade Dorsey for next year's 3rd

[chiefzilla1501]

If I'm trading Dorsey, I'm sure as hell not wasting another high pick on a goddamn 5-technique.

In this scenario, if you get a Detroit or a St. Louis to throw their second round pick in the ring, then you're essentially trading up in the draft if you take a 5-technique with Atlanta's Gonzalez pick.

[Mr. Laz]

If Suh falls into our lap and no other deal looks good

draft Suh and then trade Dorsey to get a legit NT

Suh
cody
Jackson

might work ... it's still frustrating to be drafting a player to just replace dorsey though.

hopefully if Suh drops into our lap some team will trade the farm to move up and grab him.

[OnTheWarpath15]

In this scenario, if you get a Detroit or a St. Louis to throw their second round pick in the ring, then you're essentially trading up in the draft if you take a 5-technique with Atlanta's Gonzalez pick.

Or, I'm not wasting another high pick on a position that holds little value, and I'm using those high picks for skill players.

Why do people think it takes some special talent to be a fucking 5-tech?

[MahiMike]

If by some miracle Suh falls, we grab him and call Gunther to take Dorsey.

[Mr. Laz]

If by some miracle Suh falls, we grab him and call Gunther to take Dorsey.
dorsey for detroit's 2nd rounder straight up?

[KCChiefsMan]

dorsey for detroit's 2nd rounder straight up?

JIMP

[chiefzilla1501]

Or, I'm not wasting another high pick on a position that holds little value, and I'm using those high picks for skill players.

Why do people think it takes some special talent to be a ****ing 5-tech?

Well, I think it's an overreaction to say that using a #50 on a 5-technique is reaching. 5-techniques still hold good value, but it's probably toward the later first early second if you have a really good one and middle of the first if you have an outstanding one. We saw in Cleveland what happens when you get below average play at that position.

And again, this is essentially a trade up. You lose Dorsey, replace him with a guy who might have better 5-technique potential, and in exchange you get a high second round pick. It's essentially like trading Dorsey in order to move up 15 or so spots up in the draft.

[Dave Lane]

dorsey for detroit's 2nd rounder straight up?

JFC don't say that. I got call a fucking retard for suggesting this a couple of weeks ago. I'd try to get a low 1st from someone but I think there is 0% chance of that. I'd try to rape Detroit / Gunther for its 2nd or next years 1st. (that would be my favorite move).

[HemiEd]

dorsey for detroit's 2nd rounder straight up?

Sure and throw in Flowers. CPers don't want to keep the good players.

[Gary]

Or, I'm not wasting another high pick on a position that holds little value, and I'm using those high picks for skill players.

Why do people think it takes some special talent to be a ****ing 5-tech?

Our savior of the front office seemed to think it was worth reaching at the #3 overall pick (F**K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...excuse me) for what they thought was the only good 5-tech in the draft. Damn that still stings.

[Mr. Laz]

Sure and throw in Flowers. CPers don't want to keep the good players.
overreact much?

1. it was a question
2. if for some strange reason we do draft suh then i don't know that we have a place for Dorsey anymore.
3. if we can get more by all means get more, i just figured Gunther would be an easy touch.
4. i already said hopefully someone would trade the farm to get Suh if he's there at 5

[Chiefnj2]

If you trade Dorsey you have to burn a draft pick to replace him. He was our best defensive lineman last year. If you got a 2nd and 4th for him, you figure you have to use a 2nd round pick to replace him. So you are basically trading Dorsey for a late round pick.

Keep him.

[Mr. Laz]

If you trade Dorsey you have to burn a draft pick to replace him. He was our best defensive lineman last year. If you got a 2nd and 4th for him, you figure you have to use a 2nd round pick to replace him. So you are basically trading Dorsey for a late round pick.

Keep him.
agreed, so unless his replacement falls into our lap(suh) you keep him.

even then you have grit your teeth about it

unless of course if Suh fall into our lap Pioli/Crennel have no problem going to a 1-gap 3-4 then you just leave Dorsey where is at and put Suh at nose tackle.

[Nightfyre]

agreed, so unless his replacement falls into our lap(suh) you keep him.

even then you have grit your teeth about it

unless of course if Suh fall into our lap Pioli/Crennel have no problem going to a 1-gap 3-4 then you just leave Dorsey where is at and put Suh at nose tackle.

That would be SO badass. though, where does that leave TJax? Can he play 1-gap?

[RealSNR]

Dorsey is our best 5-tech. Jackson and Magee still could be awful at doing their jobs. Let's not get rid of the only decent one we have and be forced to draft ANOTHER one at the top of the first round.

[RealSNR]

Also, I refuse to get rid of all this value we have invested in a player that's doing reasonably well in a position that doesn't fit his traits as a player. We would have to get top value for him. At least a mid-to high first rounder. And that's not going to happen. At all.

[chiefzilla1501]

If you trade Dorsey you have to burn a draft pick to replace him. He was our best defensive lineman last year. If you got a 2nd and 4th for him, you figure you have to use a 2nd round pick to replace him. So you are basically trading Dorsey for a late round pick.

Keep him.

I disagree. If you get a high second round pick, then you're trading Dorsey to move up 15 spots in the second round. And maybe get a pick on the side.

Would be pretty impressive if we had two top 5 picks in the second round. And you can probably draft his replacement in the middle of the second round.

[Chiefnj2]

I disagree. If you get a high second round pick, then you're trading Dorsey to move up 15 spots in the second round. And maybe get a pick on the side.

Would be pretty impressive if we had two top 5 picks in the second round. And you can probably draft his replacement in the middle of the second round.

Your still burning a mid to ealry 2nd rounder to "try" and replace him. DL often don't come into their own until their 3rd year. Assuming the pick pans out, you likely aren't going to see a really productive player until 2012. Keep Dorsey.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'd trade Tyson Jackson for a 3rd before I traded Dorsey for a 2nd.

[notorious]

I'd trade Tyson Jackson for a 3rd before I traded Dorsey for a 2nd.

Is he worth a 3rd?

I would be amazed anyone offered anything better then a 5th for him.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

For all that people talk about "workout warriors", Tyson Jackson is even worse. He's a tape measure warrior. If it weren't for his height and arm length, he wouldn't have been a first round pick.

[Chiefnj2]

For all that people talk about "workout warriors", Tyson Jackson is even worse. He's a tape measure warrior. If it weren't for his height and arm length, he wouldn't have been a first round pick.

JPP anyone?

[Ralphy Boy]

I'd trade Dorsey for next year's 3rd

%(/

[Ralphy Boy]

For all that people talk about "workout warriors", Tyson Jackson is even worse. He's a tape measure warrior. If it weren't for his height and arm length, he wouldn't have been a first round pick.

Those 33 inch arms?

Not sure that those are long.

[BossChief]

anyone that would trade Jackson or Dorsey at this point for anything less that a mid-high first, each, is not dealing with reality.

It's epic dumb like trading a quarterback after his first or second year because he isnt "producing" DL take an equal amount of time before they produce.

I wasnt a big fan of the Jackson pick but to say you would trade him for a second or third is fucking retarded.

[patteeu]

No. I wouldn't trade him. At all.

Would you trade Dorsey and our #5 overall pick to Detroit for Suh and their 2nd round pick?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Not again :shake:

[chiefzilla1501]

anyone that would trade Jackson or Dorsey at this point for anything less that a mid-high first, each, is not dealing with reality.

It's epic dumb like trading a quarterback after his first or second year because he isnt "producing" DL take an equal amount of time before they produce.

I wasnt a big fan of the Jackson pick but to say you would trade him for a second or third is ****ing retarded.

The issue is that Dorsey doesn't have a tremendous ceiling in a 3-4, so we can't keep acting like he still carries top 5 value in a 3-4. He wasn't drafted to play in a 3-4. I think Dorsey played decent enough last year, but I also think he overachieved. You don't see a lot of short 5-techniques out there. Most of them are at least 6'4" or 6'5".

I don't understand why people are treating Dorsey as if he's so untradeable. And for as much shit as the Chiefs got for drafting Jackson in the top 5 because he's a 5-technique, it's interesting that so many people think it's so impossible to find a decent 5-technique in the later rounds.

Dorsey's an average 5-technique with the potential to be good enough. Why would people be afraid to trade that in exchange for moving up 15+ spots in the second round of a loaded draft? I think you could easily find a "good enough" 5-technique in the middle of the second round.

[Chiefnj2]

The issue is that Dorsey doesn't have a tremendous ceiling in a 3-4, so we can't keep acting like he still carries top 5 value in a 3-4. He wasn't drafted to play in a 3-4. I think Dorsey played decent enough last year, but I also think he overachieved. You don't see a lot of short 5-techniques out there. Most of them are at least 6'4" or 6'5".

I don't understand why people are treating Dorsey as if he's so untradeable. And for as much shit as the Chiefs got for drafting Jackson in the top 5 because he's a 5-technique, it's interesting that so many people think it's so impossible to find a decent 5-technique in the later rounds.

Dorsey's an average 5-technique with the potential to be good enough. Why would people be afraid to trade that in exchange for moving up 15+ spots in the second round of a loaded draft? I think you could easily find a "good enough" 5-technique in the middle of the second round.

You have no idea what Dorsey's ceiling is.

[chiefzilla1501]

You have no idea what Dorsey's ceiling is.

Aaron Smith - 6'5"
Haloti Ngata - 6'4"
Justin Bannan - 6'3"
Marcus Spears - 6'4"
Igor Olshansky - 6'6"
Luis Castillo - 6'3"
Richard Seymour - 6'6"
Ty Warren - 6'5"
Brett Keisel - 6'5"
Etc....

Glenn Dorsey - 6'1"

Dorsey belongs in a 4-3. He's overachieving right now in this new scheme. He's not strong enough in the legs to play at the Nose and he's not tall enough to play 5-technique.

[philfree]

If Suh slipped to us I'd trade Dorsey to the Saints for the 32nd pick in the draft. I think they need a DT and it'd be a homecoming for Dorsey.


PhilFree:arrow:

[BossChief]

Aaron Smith - 6'5"
Haloti Ngata - 6'4"
Justin Bannan - 6'3"
Marcus Spears - 6'4"
Igor Olshansky - 6'6"
Luis Castillo - 6'3"
Richard Seymour - 6'6"
Ty Warren - 6'5"
Brett Keisel - 6'5"
Etc....

Glenn Dorsey - 6'1"

Dorsey belongs in a 4-3. He's overachieving right now in this new scheme. He's not strong enough in the legs to play at the Nose and he's not tall enough to play 5-technique.

you shouldnt get caught in a game that a player has to be a certain height to be successful at a certain position.

Some of the best players in the NFL aren't even close to the prototypes size for the position.

If Dorsey has a similar jump next year as he had between his rookie and second year (as he should under Crennel) he will be a extremely valuable player for us going forward.

[Chiefnj2]

Aaron Smith - 6'5"
Haloti Ngata - 6'4"
Justin Bannan - 6'3"
Marcus Spears - 6'4"
Igor Olshansky - 6'6"
Luis Castillo - 6'3"
Richard Seymour - 6'6"
Ty Warren - 6'5"
Brett Keisel - 6'5"
Etc....

Glenn Dorsey - 6'1"

Dorsey belongs in a 4-3. He's overachieving right now in this new scheme. He's not strong enough in the legs to play at the Nose and he's not tall enough to play 5-technique.

Someone should tell Drew Brees to cool it. At 6' his ceiling isn't very high.

[Saccopoo]

Dorsey's an average 5-technique with the potential to be good enough. Why would people be afraid to trade that in exchange for moving up 15+ spots in the second round of a loaded draft? I think you could easily find a "good enough" 5-technique in the middle of the second round.

Vince Oghobassee would be an excellent late round, UDFA pick for just that position.

[chiefzilla1501]

Someone should tell Drew Brees to cool it. At 6' his ceiling isn't very high.

So we're going to rattle off every exception to the rule? For every Drew Brees how many short QBs don't make the cut? It's because short QBs very often struggle to see over defenders and get a clean throw over the top of tall linemen.

Glenn Dorsey has a low ceiling because his job is to line up with one shoulder to an offensive tackle. He has to engage those Tackles and has to be able to shed off of them. How can a 6'1" DE do that when he's playing against a 6'7" mammoth of an offensive tackle? How do you shed off of the blocker if you have a short wingspan, as Dorsey does?

He has a low ceiling. Look, I'm impressed with the way he's played so far and he's our best option right now for a mile, but you can find a replacement for him in the middle of the 2nd round and if that guy has the physical measurables, he'll be better suited for the position than Dorsey. As I said in another thread, we whiffed on not getting Carriker, who's much better built for this position.

[Nightfyre]

So we're going to rattle off every exception to the rule? For every Drew Brees how many short QBs don't make the cut? It's because short QBs very often struggle to see over defenders and get a clean throw over the top of tall linemen.

Glenn Dorsey has a low ceiling because his job is to line up with one shoulder to an offensive tackle. He has to engage those Tackles and has to be able to shed off of them. How can a 6'1" DE do that when he's playing against a 6'7" mammoth of an offensive tackle? How do you shed off of the blocker if you have a short wingspan, as Dorsey does?

He has a low ceiling. Look, I'm impressed with the way he's played so far and he's our best option right now for a mile, but you can find a replacement for him in the middle of the 2nd round and if that guy has the physical measurables, he'll be better suited for the position than Dorsey. As I said in another thread, we whiffed on not getting Carriker, who's much better built for this position.

Dorsey has longer arms than Tjax.... Plus Dorsey's arms are only a full 3/8 of an inch shorter than Carriker. :hmmm:

[chiefzilla1501]

Dorsey has longer arms than Tjax.... Plus Dorsey's arms are only a full 3/8 of an inch shorter than Carriker. :hmmm:

Yes, you're right. Good call. I didn't realize he has a pretty freakish wingspan for his size. That being said, height still does put him at a pretty big disadvantage, especially if he's sometimes 6 inches shorter than some of the Offensive Tackles he lines up against. We can either believe he's a very rare exception, or maybe he's just at a disadvantage.

Either way, his place should be as a 3-technique where he can use his first step to explode into the backfield. I don't think his place is in a 2-gap or in a 5-technique. He needs to be let loose, not eating up space. I just think there are going to be plenty of games where he's mismatched. I still think he holds value to a team that knows his place is at a 3-technique, and I don't think it's particularly hard to find a solid 5-technique to replace him. He's not untradable.

[milkman]

If Suh slipped to us I'd trade Dorsey to the Saints for the 32nd pick in the draft. I think they need a DT and it'd be a homecoming for Dorsey.


PhilFree:arrow:

Saints are pretty set at DT.

They need DE and LB.

[philfree]

Saints are pretty set at DT.

They need DE and LB.

I read on the internet they could use a DT....:shrug:


PhilFree:arrow:

[BigCatDaddy]

I read on the internet they could use a DT....:shrug:


PhilFree:arrow:

Yeah, I heard Dorsey for Brown to. I would rather do that then draft a Tackle #5.

[HemiEd]

overreact much?

1. it was a question
2. if for some strange reason we do draft suh then i don't know that we have a place for Dorsey anymore.
3. if we can get more by all means get more, i just figured Gunther would be an easy touch.
4. i already said hopefully someone would trade the farm to get Suh if he's there at 5

I am just sick of hearing the "lets trade Dorsey" the Chiefs best defensive lineman crap. If they draft Suh, which they won't have a chance to, they can find a place for both of them.

[philfree]

I am just sick of hearing the "lets trade Dorsey" the Chiefs best defensive lineman crap. If they draft Suh, which they won't have a chance to, they can find a place for both of them.

It's not really "let's trade Dorsey" but if we did end up drafting Suh it would probably be our best interest to recoup a pick and address another position.


PhilFree:arrow:

[milkman]

I read on the internet they could use a DT....:shrug:


PhilFree:arrow:

They have Sedrick Ellis.

They aren't going to trade for Dorsey.

[Coogs]

I was watching the sports at 10:00 PM last night. The Dorsey to NT thing seems to be gaining steam.

[chiefzilla1501]

I am just sick of hearing the "lets trade Dorsey" the Chiefs best defensive lineman crap. If they draft Suh, which they won't have a chance to, they can find a place for both of them.

I just don't understand why people are making Dorsey out to be an untradeable player. Did he play decent? Yeah, I thought he played pretty good. But he didn't play excellent. We're relying exclusively on upside and it's just my opinion, and I'm surprised more people don't think so too, that he has a very huge height barrier to overcome. He was drafted in the top 5 with the thought of playing the 3-technique. Gun fucking Cunningham played him at the Nose for whatever dumb reason.

He's not untradable. And if we can somehow squeeze a high second round pick out of him, the 5-technique isn't such a critical position that we would get hit in the face. He belongs in a 4-3. We can easily find a replacement in the middle of the second and have him compete with Magee.

Two picks in the early second would be phenomenal. You could probably land at least two from this list: Jerry Hughes, Golden Tate, Cam Thomas, Terrence Cody, Torell Troup, Jermaine Gresham... some really good players on the board.

[chiefzilla1501]

I was watching the sports at 10:00 PM last night. The Dorsey to NT thing seems to be gaining steam.

I really hope not. It's a move I really don't understand, unless this is just a smoke screen to fake an interest in Suh. Dorsey is not a Nose tackle and it scares me that our personnel department thinks he is.

[milkman]

I really hope not. It's a move I really don't understand, unless this is just a smoke screen to fake an interest in Suh. Dorsey is not a Nose tackle and it scares me that our personnel department thinks he is.

Really?

I think Dorsey could really excel as a NT in a 1 gap 34.

[Chiefnj2]

I just don't understand why people are making Dorsey out to be an untradeable player. Did he play decent? Yeah, I thought he played pretty good. But he didn't play excellent. We're relying exclusively on upside and it's just my opinion, and I'm surprised more people don't think so too, that he has a very huge height barrier to overcome. He was drafted in the top 5 with the thought of playing the 3-technique. Gun ****ing Cunningham played him at the Nose for whatever dumb reason.

He's not untradable. And if we can somehow squeeze a high second round pick out of him, the 5-technique isn't such a critical position that we would get hit in the face. He belongs in a 4-3. We can easily find a replacement in the middle of the second and have him compete with Magee.

Two picks in the early second would be phenomenal. You could probably land at least two from this list: Jerry Hughes, Golden Tate, Cam Thomas, Terrence Cody, Torell Troup, Jermaine Gresham... some really good players on the board.

Who is his "easy" replacement that KC can get with the #50?

[philfree]

They have Sedrick Ellis.

They aren't going to trade for Dorsey.

Yeah I never said it had a chance to happen andd what I posted was just conjecture. DT is lsited as a need for them though so why that is with the great Sedrick Ellis on their roster I don't know.


PhilFree:arrow:

[HemiEd]

I just don't understand why people are making Dorsey out to be an untradeable player. Did he play decent? Yeah, I thought he played pretty good. But he didn't play excellent. We're relying exclusively on upside and it's just my opinion, and I'm surprised more people don't think so too, that he has a very huge height barrier to overcome. He was drafted in the top 5 with the thought of playing the 3-technique. Gun ****ing Cunningham played him at the Nose for whatever dumb reason.

He's not untradable. And if we can somehow squeeze a high second round pick out of him, the 5-technique isn't such a critical position that we would get hit in the face. He belongs in a 4-3. We can easily find a replacement in the middle of the second and have him compete with Magee.

Two picks in the early second would be phenomenal. You could probably land at least two from this list: Jerry Hughes, Golden Tate, Cam Thomas, Terrence Cody, Torell Troup, Jermaine Gresham... some really good players on the board.

He has had two DCs in his two years, and has done what he was asked to do with both of them.
I want to see him play for a competent DC for a couple years before giving away a top 5 pick for a 2nd rounder.

[chiefzilla1501]

Really?

I think Dorsey could really excel as a NT in a 1 gap 34.

I would love to see that too. And if Pioli can show some kind of willingness to think outside the box and build around that, that's fine.

I'm just not convinced they're going to do that. It sounds like they want him to play at 320 lbs to play in the traditional 2-gap, which is what Romeo has run for years. If they do this, it's an enormous waste of his strengths.

[Nightfyre]

Yes, you're right. Good call. I didn't realize he has a pretty freakish wingspan for his size. That being said, height still does put him at a pretty big disadvantage, especially if he's sometimes 6 inches shorter than some of the Offensive Tackles he lines up against. We can either believe he's a very rare exception, or maybe he's just at a disadvantage.

Either way, his place should be as a 3-technique where he can use his first step to explode into the backfield. I don't think his place is in a 2-gap or in a 5-technique. He needs to be let loose, not eating up space. I just think there are going to be plenty of games where he's mismatched. I still think he holds value to a team that knows his place is at a 3-technique, and I don't think it's particularly hard to find a solid 5-technique to replace him. He's not untradable.

Again, I disagree with you about his height. His height plus his armspan give him tremendous pad-level and leverage capabilities. Thats just my opinion. I would love to see Suh fall to us and have us convert back to a 4-3. We could trade Hali to a 3-4 team for a second maybe and take a chance on a player like Dunlap.

[chiefzilla1501]

Who is his "easy" replacement that KC can get with the #50?

Safe pick with Alualu or a high upside pick in Linval Joseph. Or a guy like Arthur Jones a little later.

Here's the thing. If the Chiefs were thinking of running a 1-gap, I can see the need for versatility. But if the Chiefs are planning to run primarily 2-gap, your DE doesn't need to be an outstanding athlete. He doesn't have to even rush the passer. You can get yourself a 1-dimensional 5-technique who fell because he doesn't have much to offer in pass rush. But in Romeo's scheme, you don't have to.

[chiefzilla1501]

Again, I disagree with you about his height. His height plus his armspan give him tremendous pad-level and leverage capabilities. Thats just my opinion. I would love to see Suh fall to us and have us convert back to a 4-3. We could trade Hali to a 3-4 team for a second maybe and take a chance on a player like Dunlap.

I'd love to see that too, but I'm doubtful it would happen, with Pioli and Romeo at the controls.

[Ebolapox]

we wouldn't get a second rounder for hali.

[Mr. Laz]

we wouldn't get a second rounder for hali.
i don't know ... Hali looked pretty good last year.

Chiefs fans think that it's short lived but that doesn't mean other NFL teams do.


why are we trading Hali?

[Nightfyre]

i don't know ... Hali looked pretty good last year.

Chiefs fans think that it's short lived but that doesn't mean other NFL teams do.


why are we trading Hali?

assuming, hypothetically we switch back to a 4-3. Hali has proven he belongs in a 3-4, imo

[Renegade]

I will be glad when all this nonsense "would you" and "what if" speculation will be over Saturday after the final rounds of the draft are done.

[bevischief]

For some dip sh$% whole draft... maybe

[milkman]

i don't know ... Hali looked pretty good last year.

Chiefs fans think that it's short lived but that doesn't mean other NFL teams do.


why are we trading Hali?

He did alright as a pass rusher, but he's still a liability as a run defender.

He has value, and some team would probably give a second round pick, but this team is so talent depleted that trading him isn't all that smart.