Price to sell your American citizenship.

[Rain Man]

Hypothetical: Obama loses power next term after his approval ratings drop below zero, and a Republican president comes aboard. Let's call him President Cassel. He's a real free-market guy, so he comes up with a great new way for Americans to make money as a means of jumpstarting the economy.

Sell their U.S. citizenship.

So you can now put your American citizenship up for sale on E-bay. Once you sell it, you no longer enjoy the rights to citizenship, though you will be allowed to visit the country for up to 90 days each year on a tourist visa. You will receive a "former American" passport that will be accepted for entry by other countries indefinitely as a "non-citizen of the world".

The buyer will, of course, become a full citizen.

It's not President Cassel's concern about what you do afterward. You'll have 90 days upon sale to leave the country, and you can do whatever you want after that.

It's a non-taxed transaction since you'll no longer be a citizen when you sell it. So you get to keep all the money.

So what's your "Buy It Now" price on ebay?


Rules clarification: If you're not a U.S. citizen, go with whatever country you're currently in unless it's Belgium, in which case assume the Netherlands.

[Simply Red]

depends on where I'm moving.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

NOT FOR SALE.

[Buck]

$5,000,000

Move to France. Live comfortably for the rest of my life.

[Bane]

Tree fidy......
Seriously..Not for sale.

[DaFace]

I voted a million. Maybe I'm just cheap, but it doesn't seem like it'd be too severe of an adjustment to move to Vancouver or Toronto with that kind of cash to pay for plane tickets.

[TrebMaxx]

Not for sale.

[KC Jones]

$1 million would do it for me. There are plenty of good nations out there and some of them even speak English. My company is Canadian to start with so I could probably just transfer. I have a brother residing in the UK, so we could move there too and still have family nearby. My skill set is pretty universally employable for decent money, and that much of a nest egg bump would put me on a road to an even earlier retirement than I currently anticipate.

(of course it would probably take $5 million for my wife to consider it seriously)

[verbaljitsu]

You will receive a "former American" passport that will be accepted for entry by other countries indefinitely as a "non-citizen of the world".
hmmm the possibilities of not having an extradition treaty...

[kstater]

First in with sell then sneak back across the border.

[Bwana]

$500,000

I'm seriously thinking about retiring in San Pedro, Belize when the time comes, so that would be a nice little bonus.

[Reaper16]

Give me a cool million, untaxed, and I'll say peace out to the stars and stripes. Japan, France, Belgium, Italy, Sardinia, somewhere where people know how to live. Hell, even Vancouver or Toronto if I want something close.

[SAUTO]

5 mil. i know how to spend money. but that should be enough :)
Posted via Mobile Device

[RedNFeisty]

$10 million...I'm selling four

[Iowanian]

I'm selling my citizenship for $10mil and then I'm either sneaking back in as an illegal or I'm going to call the first actor who wants to leave because a Republican is elected and buy theirs for $500k.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

I voted five million. There are other countries that I would be able to live in that I would enjoy. Australia is the first one I would try. But, total relocation of myself and my family.... five million.

I would not want my kids to sell theirs. I would want them to retain their citizenship so that they could always return to this country.

I think this country is becoming more and more socialist, so soon, it won't matter anymore anyways. I hope it changes, but National healthcare and bailouts say otherwise.

[Bugeater]

The people who voted for the first two options should do the rest of us a favor and GTFO now.

[Ebolapox]

depends on what the market bears out. if they're actually willing to pay me over a million bucks, I'm outta here--but I'll hold out for more if possible. my bottom line, though...has got to be five million.

[bevischief]

A hell of a lot... Billion range... I want my own country...

[KurtCobain]

I'll go with 100 grand. Love this country, but I could use a new re-start.

[el borracho]

I plan on leaving soon, anyway, and may or may not come back. Still, to lose the option would take a lot of convincing. I'd probably do it for 1 million. With that kind of money I could travel all of Central and South America for the rest of my days. Heck, depending how frugal I am, I might never have to work again.

[philfree]

Money doesn't go as far as one would think so I'd need at least $10mil....Nope that's not enough I want to change my vote. $20mil I nice pad on a tropical island is how much? And then a hunting lodge on the land I buy where I spend my 90 days every year. How much is land in North Central Kansas? I'd need about 5000 acres. Sh!t! I've already spent a quarter of it.


PhilFree:arrow:

[el borracho]

Money doesn't go as far as one would think so I'd need at least $10mil....Nope that's not enough I want to change my vote. $20mil I nice pad on a tropical island is how much? And then a hunting lodge on the land I buy where I spend my 90 days every year. How much is land in North Central Kansas? I'd need about 5000 acres. Sh!t! I've already spent a quarter of it.


PhilFree:arrow:

Depends where you go and what you want, really. As of 2005, you could purchase a beachfront condo in Costa Rica for $80,000 and a plate of food (enough for my American appetite) was $2-3 dollars.

Of course, if you move to Western Europe or the UK or Australia or somewhere like that you will need more than 1 million to live comfortably and stop working.

[whoman69]

Kind of an empty threat the way the treat illegals here. One could sell their citizenship and still stay in the country.

[FAX]

Interesting question, Mr. Rain Man. I would sell for a couple million.

But, I'm wondering what people would charge to name their first born son, "Snidely".

FAX

[-King-]

5 mil. Move to Toronto. It's basically like living in the US.


And plus, under President Cassel, then US won't survive for much longer anyway.

[FAX]

No offense, but I don't like the plan, Mr. KcChiefsKing. If, for example, President Cassel tries to strike Beijing with a ballistic missile, the odds of hitting Toronto by mistake are pretty high.

FAX

[Bugeater]

No offense, but I don't like the plan, Mr. KcChiefsKing. If, for example, President Cassel tries to strike Beijing with a ballistic missile, the odds of hitting Toronto by mistake are pretty high.

FAX
:LOL: Yeah, there's that, and it's fugging cold in Canada. I could probably hang there in the summertime but I'd have to bail during the winter. For that reason I'd have to at least have $10M.

[-King-]

No offense, but I don't like the plan, Mr. KcChiefsKing. If, for example, President Cassel tries to strike Beijing with a ballistic missile, the odds of hitting Toronto by mistake are pretty high.

FAX

:LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL

Mr. FAX the wise one.

[POND_OF_RED]

I'd trade it for a New Zealand citizenship straight up.

[RJ]

If that fascist Cassell gets elected I'll give up my citizenship for free.

To hell in a handbasket, I tell ya.

[88TG88]

It would have to be enough so that I never have to work again. Maybe in the tens of millions.

[RippedmyFlesh]

a billion?
how could anyone turn down a billion???

[Chiefs Rool]

Sorry, but what good is all that money if you're not free.

[DJ's left nut]

$1,000.00

It's not like being here illegally matters anymore anyway.

I'd sell my citizenship for a happy ending, stop paying taxes and leach of the government for the remainder of my days.

[MahiMike]

is it worth much?

[Cornstock]

If this actually is a free-market scenario i would ask about the demand of a US citizenship. Is it an elastic or inelastic demand? aka will there be buyers at any price i choose to charge? obviously i would want the most money i could get out of it.

[cdcox]

I marked $5M, but would probably let it go for between 2 and 3M.

[CoMoChief]

$1 Billion and I'd go live in the Virgin Islands and eat/drink/fuck/smoke like a god damn king.

[alnorth]

$25 million. I'm a casualty actuary, so obviously it is a calculated number. Given my crazy demands I was expecting a higher number.

Assumptions: I want $1MM per year for the rest of my life. This is because if I'm selling my American citizenship, which I HIGHLY value, then I want a lavish lifestyle, and the ability to donate heavily to charity if I have more money than I could ever possibly spend. (plus still have plenty to fall back on if I underestimate my financial needs)

I want the money to be inflation adjusted for life. That means if worldwide inflation is.... lets assume 4%, then in year two I get $1.04MM, year 3 I get $1.0816MM, etc

I am confident enough in my investing ability to safely get at least 3% over inflation in the long-run for the whole portfolio. There might be a boom and a bust here and there, but 3% over inflation is very conservative.

I will live until 95, after which I will promptly die with no money left.

With all of that, I came up with $28.15MM, so I went with the closest option in the poll.

[Miles]

$2M would probably be enough to be worth relocating to Toronto or Vancouver and have enough annual interest.

[kepp]

$5M for each of my four family members...then we'd move to Thailand to live near my wife's family.

[Fritz88]

Some people take freedom for granted. I say try out living in a dictatorship then check this vote out.

[seclark]

no way. i'll just stay where i am and bitch, thank you.
sec

[stevieray]

not for sale.

[Sofa King]

I liked the sell it for $10 million, then buy a bankrupt actor's for 500k, option...


Moving any farther north to somewhere in Canada seems like a really foolish idea...


Selling it for a large sum of money, and then just walking back across the border seems like a logical move....


too bad brazil has such a high AIDS rate.. .otherwise moving there for awhile wouldn't be a bad thing... (hottest women in the world, if you don't mind putting up with a few drug cartels...)

[HemiEd]

It has no price, anyone that thinks it does, doesn't realize what we have.

[alnorth]

Some people take freedom for granted. I say try out living in a dictatorship then check this vote out.

The choice isn't between the US or money and Venezuela. With $25MM, I think I'd do pretty well in Australia.

[bowener]

Sorry, but what good is all that money if you're not free.

Who says you're not?

Its not like you can't go live in any other Western European nation.

[bowener]

It has no price, anyone that thinks it does, doesn't realize what we have.

We who? US citizens? Its not like we are the only ones in the whole big wide world that are allowed to shit when we want. Now if we meant all the people of the world, the majority, that are free, have no idea what it is that we are granted by our different governing or ruling bodies, and are unable through reasoning and education to understand what it is like or could be like to have no human rights or civil liberties, then yeah ok we might not realize what we have.

Sorry if this seems like an inflammatory post or tone or whatever. I didn't mean for it to, I am just tired today, no sleep last night. I am a crank today.

According to the 2009 Map of Freedom:

*3.055 billion people are Free (46%)
*1.351 billion are partly Free (20%)
*2.276 billion are not Free (34%)

From this place. (http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=445)

[HemiEd]

We who? US citizens? Its not like we are the only ones in the whole big wide world that are allowed to shit when we want. Now if we meant all the people of the world, the majority, that are free, have no idea what it is that we are granted by our different governing or ruling bodies, and are unable through reasoning and education to understand what it is like or could be like to have no human rights or civil liberties, then yeah ok we might not realize what we have.

Sorry if this seems like an inflammatory post or tone or whatever. I didn't mean for it to, I am just tired today, no sleep last night. I am a crank today.

According to the 2009 Map of Freedom:

*3.055 billion people are Free (46%)
*1.351 billion are partly Free (20%)
*2.276 billion are not Free (34%)

From this place. (http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=445)

It is not inflammatory to me, I think this is what Kevin was trying to stimulate.
Have you ever traveled abroad to those other free countries? I literally kiss the ground, every time I return, even from Canada. No place, no place is even close to this IMO.

[El Jefe]

not for sale.

THIS x10000 :clap::clap::clap:

[cdcox]

It is not inflammatory to me, I think this is what Kevin was trying to stimulate.
Have you ever traveled abroad to those other free countries? I literally kiss the ground, every time I return, even from Canada. No place, no place is even close to this IMO.

Really? Every other place I have been I did not feel the oppression of the hosting government in the least. I petty much went where I wanted to, traveled freely from city to city without reporting to the government, felt safe, saw lots of freedom of expression, and pretty much got the same vibe from the people living there.

Sure the culture was different, but I can at least partially adapt to a different culture.

The only exception was Mexico, where the class distinctions between the ordinary working people and the tourists were huge.

[El Jefe]

It has no price, anyone that thinks it does, doesn't realize what we have.

I agree Hemi. I'm sure my Grandpa who served in WWII would love to see how quickly people are to sell the rights so many died for JMHO.

[bowener]

It is not inflammatory to me, I think this is what Kevin was trying to stimulate.
Have you ever traveled abroad to those other free countries? I literally kiss the ground, every time I return, even from Canada. No place, no place is even close to this IMO.

Sadly I have been too poor in my life to travel abroad, should have taken advantage of that by studying abroad.

A majority of my friends have studied or lived abroad and loved the respective countries they lived in FWIW. 4 or 5 have lived in England (Manchester, London, somewhere else in the South) and absolutely loved it. 2 are living in France right now and don't want to return. I had roommates from Barcelona, Spain (they felt it was about the same as living in the US - both had lived here 5 years- ph.D students). 2 more friends lived in Germany for 2 years, they go back to visit as much as possible and look for jobs there as well.

I think it all comes down to who you are as a person. I would have to say most people who travel from the US to another nation are going to love the US when they get home, not because the rest of the world is terrible or tyrannical (nowhere near the truth), but because it is familiar and their place of origin. Like I've said, I have never been able to afford traveling, but if I could I would imagine that I would enjoy about any nation that I visited, that is just how I am as a person though. I like to move about and see things that I have never seen. Hopefully someday soon I can find a way to travel and see the world. You should consider yourself lucky for being able to do that, and don't take that for granted.

[Miles]

It is not inflammatory to me, I think this is what Kevin was trying to stimulate.
Have you ever traveled abroad to those other free countries? I literally kiss the ground, every time I return, even from Canada. No place, no place is even close to this IMO.

Whenever I have traveled abroad and return the ease of travel, particularly by car, and just the simple stuff like going to a grocery store that doesn't suck is definitely taken for granted. Not to mention my favorite sport being golf and how annoying it would likely be to play outside of the US.

Still as a single guy I would be pretty willing to relocate under Rainmans hypo and love traveling.

[bowener]

I agree Hemi. I'm sure my Grandpa who served in WWII would love to see how quickly people are to sell the rights so many died for JMHO.

Wow, way to go and kill the mood. As stated this is hypothetical. I imagine the point of this was to get people to think somewhat out of their USA box, but whatever. My grandpa fought just like yours and he loved to travel around the world when he could. I think the war taught him it was more important to see yourself as a human and be a citizen of the world, and not let a national border define who you are.

[bowener]

Whenever I have traveled abroad and return the ease of travel, particularly by car, and just the simple stuff like going to a grocery store that doesn't suck is definitely taken for granted. Not to mention my favorite sport being golf and how annoying it would likely be to play outside of the US.

Still as a single guy I would be willing to relocate under Rainmans hypo.

Are you used to traveling in or living in a more urban city like Chicago/Boston/NYC or Midwestern city like KC or STL?

[HemiEd]

Really? Every other place I have been I did not feel the oppression of the hosting government in the least. I petty much went where I wanted to, traveled freely from city to city without reporting to the government, felt safe, saw lots of freedom of expression, and pretty much got the same vibe from the people living there.

Sure the culture was different, but I can at least partially adapt to a different culture.

The only exception was Mexico, where the class distinctions between the ordinary working people and the tourists were huge.

I hear ya,i obviously you don't provoke or stimulate any local objections when you travel. I try and keep a pretty low profile myself.

Recently, I made a few trips to Munich and just didn't feel comfortable. The airport was loaded with military carrying weapons similar to M16s.

They obviously had no problem profiling people, and didn't give a crap about being politically correct. They pulled a guy off the airplane, because they felt he was on drugs.

Flew to Toronto a while back, and to be honest, I didn't feel safe there as an American.

I used to have to go to Mexico a lot, to the maquiladoras on business, and I would not even consider it now.

Two years ago, I had to go to our business partner in Brazil, same thing. No fucking way can they pay me enough to go back there. Just clearing immigrations back here in the U.S. was such a huge relief.

[Miles]

Really? Every other place I have been I did not feel the oppression of the hosting government in the least. I petty much went where I wanted to, traveled freely from city to city without reporting to the government, felt safe, saw lots of freedom of expression, and pretty much got the same vibe from the people living there.

Sure the culture was different, but I can at least partially adapt to a different culture.

Same experiences I have have had. I lived in France for a summer and traveled a bit and never felt that my time there was restricted by government. Even one weekend was derailed a because of a union of the rail lines.

[cdcox]

Whenever I have traveled abroad and return the ease of travel, particularly by car, and just the simple stuff like going to a grocery store that doesn't suck is definitely taken for granted. Not to mention my favorite sport being golf and how annoying it would likely be to play outside of the US.

Still as a single guy I would be pretty willing to relocate under Rainmans hypo and love traveling.

Summarizing your point of view, would it be accurate to say that the things that you value about America over and above other countries you have visited are more life-style based, than freedom based?

[cdcox]

I hear ya,i obviously you don't provoke or stimulate any local objections when you travel. I try and keep a pretty low profile myself.

Recently, I made a few trips to Munich and just didn't feel comfortable. The airport was loaded with military carrying weapons similar to M16s.

They obviously had no problem profiling people, and didn't give a crap about being politically correct. They pulled a guy off the airplane, because they felt he was on drugs.

Flew to Toronto a while back, and to be honest, I didn't feel safe there as an American.

I used to have to go to Mexico a lot, to the maquiladoras on business, and I would not even consider it now.

Two years ago, I had to go to our business partner in Brazil, same thing. No ****ing way can they pay me enough to go back there. Just clearing immigrations back here in the U.S. was such a huge relief.

We flew through Zurich about 10 years ago and it was the same thing: police with serious fire power. I didn't feel like they were a threat to me though. London has cameras everywhere, but again they were not trying to restrict any activities I was involved in. People were holding protests over something or other and weren't bothered.

Any place where there is oppressive poverty, I don't consider that the people living there to be free, regardless of what rights they have. So your experiences in Mexico and Brazil (outside of the tourist areas) are probably not that much different than I would feel. I wouldn't want to put down roots in a place where everyone around me was barely scratching out a living.

Never been to Toronto, but have been to Montreal a couple times and Vancouver once -- all in the summer. I could live in those placed pretty easily in the summer, but would choose not to live there due to the winter.

[Miles]

Are you used to traveling in or living in a more urban city like Chicago/Boston/NYC or Midwestern city like KC or STL?

A bit of both. I actually prefer the more dense city way of doing things where I can largely just walk around and much of what I would need is nearby. I am easily out of place in smaller cities but I do like the feeling of just hoping in my car and being able to drive to the mountains or something.

[DaFace]

Some of you guys act like every other country in the world is under Nazi rule or something.

[Miles]

Summarizing your point of view, would it be accurate to say that the things that you value about America over and above other countries you have visited are more life-style based, than freedom based?

Probably, and I would have no problem with life-style type of changes of say Canada, UK, or Western Europe at all. The only freedom based question I would have is would my ability to travel in these countries with little restriction be as easy if I did not have a US passport?

[Miles]

Some of you guys act like every other country in the world is under Nazi rule or something.

I really love our country but I really fall to see how moving to somewhere like Vancouver would negatively affect my life.

[DaFace]

I agree Hemi. I'm sure my Grandpa who served in WWII would love to see how quickly people are to sell the rights so many died for JMHO.

WWII had as much of an impact on the rights of those in Europe as it did those living in the U.S. The war was more about the good of the world than it was about American rights. In that sense, your grandfather's legacy would hold no matter where you live.

[Rain Man]

In part, I also have another element of the question that I don't think has been addressed. Aside from your personal situation, what would selling your citizenship do to the United States? If 10 million people did it, who would be buying citizenships and how would it change the U.S.? If 50 million people did it, what would happen? While there may be affordability issues, I have no doubt at all that there are probably 3 billion buyers out there. Would 300 million Americans sell if foreigners could come up with the cash?

In that case, another option would be a grassroots takeover of some other country. If 10 million well-to-do Americans moved to Costa Rica, I bet we could get citizenship (or buy it) and pull that Williamsburg/Plymouth Rock stunt all over again.

[Miles]

In part, I also have another element of the question that I don't think has been addressed. Aside from your personal situation, what would selling your citizenship do to the United States? If 10 million people did it, who would be buying citizenships and how would it change the U.S.? If 50 million people did it, what would happen? While there may be affordability issues, I have no doubt at all that there are probably 3 billion buyers out there. Would 300 million Americans sell if foreigners could come up with the cash?

In that case, another option would be a grassroots takeover of some other country. If 10 million well-to-do Americans moved to Costa Rica, I bet we could get citizenship (or buy it) and pull that Williamsburg/Plymouth Rock stunt all over again.

Please do not devalue my ability to hypothetically sell my citizenship.

[HemiEd]

We flew through Zurich about 10 years ago and it was the same thing: police with serious fire power. I didn't feel like they were a threat to me though. London has cameras everywhere, but again they were not trying to restrict any activities I was involved in. People were holding protests over something or other and weren't bothered.

Any place where there is oppressive poverty, I don't consider that the people living there to be free, regardless of what rights they have. So your experiences in Mexico and Brazil (outside of the tourist areas) are probably not that much different than I would feel. I wouldn't want to put down roots in a place where everyone around me was barely scratching out a living.

Never been to Toronto, but have been to Montreal a couple times and Vancouver once -- all in the summer. I could live in those placed pretty easily in the summer, but would choose not to live there due to the winter.
Don't mean to hijack Kevin's thread, but this is an interesting discussion.

Your experience in Zurich, like my experience in Munich, just makes me feel really uncomfortable, that kind of force is needed. Or that they, their government, feel it is needed. Of course, I found a similar military presence in our own airports, shortly after 9-11. But that was pulled back rather quickly.

I agree with you on the poverty, it is really tough to comprehend just how tough those people have it. In Sao Palo, it is the worst I have ever seen, or even imagined.

It has been a very long time, but now that you mention Montreal though, I could live there if it is the still the same. The people are the friendliest of any place I have ever visited.

I agree with Miles though, once you get off the beaten path, and do simple things like go to a store, the differences really show up. We have it so good here, I will admit to being spoiled.

[Rain Man]

Please do not devalue my ability to hypothetically sell my citizenship.


Come with me to Costa Rica, and we shall build a new America! (Sweeping arm gesture.)

Granted, first we have to figure what to do with the native Costa Ricans, but there are ways to take care of that.

[PunkinDrublic]

I went to Costa Rica a couple of years ago on vacation. There are a ton of ex-pats living down there. It's almost that situation you describe Rain Man.

[cdcox]

I agree with Miles though, once you get off the beaten path, and do simple things like go to a store, the differences really show up. We have it so good here, I will admit to being spoiled.

I would classify it as different, maybe less convenient, rather than worse. The supermarket is mainly a vehicle for for the distribution of big corporate food. Lots of processed food and food coming from corporate farms. It's convenient, and gives you almost unlimited choices (5 brands of ice cream for example). When I have time, I prefer to cook with basic foods: meat, vegetables, seasonal fruits, flour, rice, butter, milk, eggs, etc. I'm pretty sure that in many cities in Europe you have local access to these basic items. You just might need to go to more than one vendor to get everything you are looking for. So to eat well, you need to invest more time daily than you would in the US. I set my sellout price high enough that I wouldn't have to work. So I would have plenty of time to take care of my food needs.

That is the big difference in the US. The pace of life is very fast so we have come to expect things to be very convenient. When I am able, I like to slow down and spend time on simple things like getting and preparing my food for the day.

[Miles]

I would classify it as different, maybe less convenient, rather than worse. The supermarket is mainly a vehicle for for the distribution of big corporate food. Lots of processed food and food coming from corporate farms. It's convenient, and gives you almost unlimited choices (5 brands of ice cream for example). When I have time, I prefer to cook with basic foods: meat, vegetables, seasonal fruits, flour, rice, butter, milk, eggs, etc. I'm pretty sure that in many cities in Europe you have local access to these basic items. You just might need to go to more than one vendor to get everything you are looking for. So to eat well, you need to invest more time daily than you would in the US. I set my sellout price high enough that I wouldn't have to work. So I would have plenty of time to take care of my food needs.

That is the big difference in the US. The pace of life is very fast so we have come to expect things to be very convenient. When I am able, I like to slow down and spend time on simple things like getting and preparing my food for the day.

I noticed a total lack of good meat at Casino but they did have pretty much anything to make a meal. Mostly I noticed a lack of a bullshit junk foods isle.

[CoMoChief]

not for sale.

You say that, but then someone waves $1 billion dollars in your face, I bet you would quickly change your mind.

[The Franchise]

$25 million.

I'm heading to either Scotland or Ireland and buying a castle.

[GoHuge]

At first I clicked not for sale, but after seeing some of what people had to say I've changed my mind........a little. I've been to Mexico, Canada, Turks and Caicos, France, Rome (Italy), and Switzerland. If I did relocate it would be to a "Western" country with western forward thinking and ideals. Also if Obama was so bad after one term that a republican could get elected again that would make this scenario look like a nice option to have whether you acted on it or not.

Right now Mexico is insane. I won't go there for any reason. Not worth the risk. You can say it is "safer" around Puerto Vallarta or Playa Del Carmen, but I'm out. There's a ****ing kidnapping a day in Pheonix because of all their stupid shit. They kill each other like it's the national pasttime. Over 18,000 in 3 years. More dangerous than Afghanistan has been.

Canada is fun for a few days, but it's just well.....Canada.

Turks and Caicos is great. First language is english so that is a plus, but I'm not a tropics guy. It's amazing for 2 weeks. Love it, but I love to hunt, fish, and just get out in the woods. Not really an option there.

France and Rome are awesome. There is so much to see and I'm a history buff. You could never see everything those countries have to offer. Their way of living is very green, very modern, but your living within millenniums of human history. It's just kick ass. Cost of living is through the ****ing roof though and my rustic side doesn't really have a place there.

Switzerland........put me down for that. I was there for three weeks. Everyone is so friendly and the women are absurdly beautiful. You've got 70-82 degrees in the summer and during the winter you've got the best skiing in the world! Plenty of outdoors. Hiking, fishing, you name it. If your an outdoors person you won't find a better more beautiful country in the world. They are a pure democracy and they live by equality. Hardly any of the ism's you find in the US. It's actually sad when you leave and to come back to the US. I seriously don't think I saw a fat person there. Landed in NY on the way back and was reminded of how fat americans are.

Have a girlfriend I use to work with in college that just got back from a year and a half in New Zealand and Australia. She loved it. Actually I've never heard from a single person that didn't love both. Haven't had a chance to get down there, but that's next on the list.

Biggest problem for me in all these other countries..........their football isn't football and cricket isn't even close to baseball. Both make my eyes bleed. You would have to just get over being a sports fan. Americans will never get their sports just like they don't get ours. I'd much rather take in a AA baseball game than be around 100,000 people cheering for guys running around chasing a soccer ball on the pitch. Other than the US playing in the World Cup I can't watch the shit and I have really given it a chance. It just won't take.

[stevieray]

You say that, but then someone waves $1 billion dollars in your face, I bet you would quickly change your mind.

not likely...money is a means to an end.

being fortunate enough to be born here already makes you rich.

that said, doesn't bother me that others would choose a different path. I have a cousin who runs a major hotel in China. He's been there over twenty years..I'll see him this summer.

[jjchieffan]

A million would work for me. I would then move to Mexico and sneak back across. After all, the illegals have as many rights as I do. What exactly would I be giving up?