Bernard Pollard a predicted Pro Bowler!!

[Pooch]

http://www.rotoworld/contenthttp://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3700

[teedubya]

perfect.

I liked that dude... but he whiffed a lot. I think he will be a Joe Horn-type player for us and be in the league 13 years.

[Demonpenz]

the chiefs really screwed the opening poster for sure.

[Bozo1970]

way to go scott!!

[ClevelandBronco]

Pooch was predicted to be a Most Valuable Contributor.

[CupidStunt]

Good luck with that. He'll be lucky to have a job at the end of the year.

[Pooch]

I had trouble posting the link but it also says that his 2009 release by the Chiefs further proves that Bill Belichick is the Patriots' matermind, and not the Kansas City Chief's GM Scott Pioli!!

[Hammock Parties]

Leopard can't change it's spots. He'll revert to form.

[BossChief]

Dude has improved every year in the league due to his work ethic, next year will be no different.

[Thig Lyfe]

DAMMIT CARL!!! :cuss:

[alpha_omega]

Could we just let it go....please?!?!?!?!

[Red Brooklyn]

Guys,
Could we just let it go....please?!?!?!?!

[Red Brooklyn]

Or better yet, in honor of Mr. Pollard's inevitable rise to Super-Stardom, I'd like to propose we turn this into a Bernard Pollard Tribute thread!

I'll start.

http://0.tqn.com/d/football/1/0/N/T/RickyWilliams2a.jpg

Good ole Bernie.

[DaFace]

I never knew the Pro Bowl was selected based on predictions. Interesting.

[Red Brooklyn]

I never knew the Pro Bowl was selected based on predictions. Interesting.

Oh yeah. It's new. They just started this year.

[WildTurkey]

meh.... I'll take Eric Berry instead

[LaChapelle]

I sleep quite well at night
even better than when he was here

[Hammock Parties]

Or better yet, in honor of Mr. Pollard's inevitable rise to Super-Stardom, I'd like to propose we turn this into a Bernard Pollard Tribute thread!

I'll start.

http://0.tqn.com/d/football/1/0/N/T/RickyWilliams2a.jpg

Good ole Bernie.

Yes, good old Bernie.

http://i32.tinypic.com/24pvqx5.gif

http://i25.tinypic.com/27xf7mg.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/34gt0sm.gif

http://i26.tinypic.com/6yjynp.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/4ucllh.gif

http://i26.tinypic.com/30j189c.gif

[CrazyHorse]

Not sure he's a probowler. But he's a damn sight better than many here gave him credit for. Thats why he went somewhere else and is doing well.

Good for him.

A safety on this defense over the last few seasons was never going to look like much. Regardlees who it was IMO.

[TheGuardian]

showing lowlights of a guy doesn't mean much. Pollard has in fact, and did in fact, get better every year. But that's part of why fans suck nuts. They aren't patient with a guy so all they do is hang on a guys fuck ups from the past and ignore the fact that he grew and got better as a player. It wouldn't surprise me if Pollard made the pro bowl.

[WildTurkey]

No he didn't improve, unless you mean his dancing ability and his amazing ability to miss tackles, he was a complete non factor on defense, and I was on his bandwagon at first

[Hammock Parties]

showing lowlights of a guy doesn't mean much.

It means everything when they all come in THREE QUARTERS of a PRESEASON game.

It illustrates perfectly why he got cut.


Pollard has in fact, and did in fact, get better every year.

No, he didn't. He sucked balls in 2008 and was rated as one of the worst safeties in the entire league. (http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2008&pos=S&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1) He missed 13 tackles. Only one safety missed more that year.

[KCrockaholic]

The fact is, we more than likely wouldn't have Eric Berry if we had kept Pollard.

[Tribal Warfare]

This just shows you that Herm and company couldn't coach worth shit.

[TheGuardian]

It means everything when they all come in THREE QUARTERS of a PRESEASON game.

It illustrates perfectly why he got cut.



No, he didn't. He sucked balls in 2008 and was rated as one of the worst safeties in the entire league. (http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2008&pos=S&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1) He missed 13 tackles. Only one safety missed more that year.

that site doesn't really mean much to me. Laron Landry sucked balls that year and Darren Sharper regardless of stats did not play at a high level in Minny's cover 2.

Pollard was, and is, an ascending player. I don't know if he will ever be pro bowl quality but he got a raw deal by a lot of fans and the coaches in KC.

[Hammock Parties]

that site doesn't really mean much to me. .

That's because you're an idiot who refuses to acknowledge evidence when it destroys your position.

[WildTurkey]

that site doesn't really mean much to me. Laron Landry sucked balls that year and Darren Sharper regardless of stats did not play at a high level in Minny's cover 2.

Pollard was, and is, an ascending player. I don't know if he will ever be pro bowl quality but he got a raw deal by a lot of fans and the coaches in KC.

He got that Raw deal because he sucked. he had every chance to prove he was a good player here and never did...

[HemiEd]

This just shows you that Herm and company couldn't coach worth shit.

Actually, to be more correct, Herm and he is crew did a fine job of showing us he couldn't coach worth a shit. He managed even worse.

[Red Brooklyn]

The fact is, we more than likely wouldn't have Eric Berry if we had kept Pollard.

Guys, kcrock's right.

[OnTheWarpath15]

He got that Raw deal because he sucked. he had every chance to prove he was a good player here and never did...

He got every chance to prove he was a good player?

He was a starter for TWO years.

If you're only giving players a two year window in which to develop, you're fucked. They'll go somewhere else and develop, like Pollard has.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It means everything when they all come in THREE QUARTERS of a PRESEASON game.

It illustrates perfectly why he got cut.



No, he didn't. He sucked balls in 2008 and was rated as one of the worst safeties in the entire league. (http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2008&pos=S&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1) He missed 13 tackles. Only one safety missed more that year.

In fairness, I'm betting he also had more opportunities for missed tackles than any other safety in the league because of our shitty front 7. He was either 3rd or 4th that year among safeties in tackles.

And FWIW, Guardian's right. He is ascending, and the website you linked shows that.

He went from 80th in 2008 to 16th in 2009.

And we gave up on him after two years as a starter because he thought Clancy Pendergast was a fucking retard.

Well, he was right, and we gave up on a player with potential.

[Micjones]

Pollard never would've become that player here.
I wish Chiefs fans would get over that transaction.
Sometimes being cut is what it takes for a player to come into his own.

[Hammock Parties]

He went from 80th in 2008 to 16th in 2009.


He was 69th in 2007.

He was a shitty player when we cut him. He was not ascending.

[ModSocks]

I was on the Pollard Bandwagon. I thought the guy had potential and got shit here that he didn't deserve. Granted, he shoulda been a lot better, but with Herm's coaching staff, who could blame him?

But comparing him to Adrian Wilson? C'mon now.....Its amazing how everytime a player leaves KC they blow up and become worth mentioning.

[OnTheWarpath15]

He was 69th in 2007.

He was a shitty player when we cut him. He was not ascending.

Dude.

He started for TWO years.

You can't expect a player to reach his peak in two years.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Its amazing how everytime a player leaves KC they blow up and become worth mentioning.

Tells you something about the franchise.

We keep hiring shitty decision makers.

[RedThat]

Sometimes guys are better with a change of scenery I guess.

[Micjones]

Dude.

He started for TWO years.

You can't expect a player to reach his peak in two years.

Two FULL seasons.
That's plenty of time to have made the kind of impression that warranted a long-term commitment.

I was never as down on Pollard as most Chiefs fans, but this idea that he would've blossomed here the way he did in Houston is uncertain at best.

That guy plays for a SIGNIFICANTLY better defense.
And he had EVERYTHING to prove after being cut.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Two FULL seasons.
That's plenty of time to have made the kind of impression that warranted a long-term commitment.

I was never as down on Pollard as most Chiefs fans, but this idea that he would've blossomed here the way he did in Houston is uncertain at best.

That guy plays for a SIGNIFICANTLY better defense.
And he had EVERYTHING to prove after being cut.

I'll remember this when Tyson Jackson blows goats again this year.

Giving up on players after two years will guarantee this franchise extending their streak of non-playoff win seasons.

[Chiefspants]

I had trouble posting the link but it also says that his 2009 release by the Chiefs further proves that Bill Belichick is the Patriots' matermind, and not the Kansas City Chief's GM Scott Pioli!!

Well, shit, the case is closed then.

[Micjones]

I'll remember this when Tyson Jackson blows goats again this year.

Giving up on players after two years will guarantee this franchise extending their streak of non-playoff win seasons.

Huh?

1. Tyson Jackson is a Defensive Lineman...they typically take longer to develop.
2. He was the 5th overall pick. Pollard? Try 54th.

ENTIRELY different situation.

Have you forgotten the fact that Pollard became disgruntled at being cursed at by a first year coach trying desperately to instill a particular mindset with his new team?

Can you see how that might've had a part in his being walked?

[RedThat]

Tells you something about the franchise.

We keep hiring shitty decision makers.

I think part of the reason players fail to develop to their full potential in KC is because we always see an environment where there is constant change.

That in itself makes the world of a difference in my opinion.

There are a few players that provide examples of that.

We could say this for guys like Glenn Dorsey, Derrick Johnson, and even Pollard as well. The day KC drafted Dorsey, his role was clearly to play DT in a 4-3 cover 2 system, then once Pioli & co came in, that went out the window, now his job is to play DE in a 3-4. Which is not suitable to his strengths and talents as a player.

Derrick Johnson has played in what? 3 different systems?

Just the fact that there are constant adjustments, new coaches, new GM comes in, etc, therefore, as a result, new philosophy, new system and the players have to learn something new. And it takes a while to adapt. Some guys don't adapt because they either simply don't get it or aren't the right fit for it. But it could really hinder the progress of a player. We see this happen quite a bit in the NFL.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Who is this Bernard Pollard of which you speak?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Have you forgotten the fact that Pollard became disgruntled at being cursed at by a first year coach trying desperately to instill a particular mindset with his new team?

Can you see how that might've had a part in his being walked?

I've been arguing for a year that his confrontation with Pendergast was the only reason he was cut, so yeah.

But that's fucking ridiculous. A franchise with this little talent can't afford to cut players with potential to make a statement.

I don't see Pioli in a hurry to jettison the QB who constantly argued with Haley on the sidelines and was caught yelling "fuck you" in response to fans booing him.

It's a bad decision regardless of why it was made.

[Micjones]

But that's fucking ridiculous. A franchise with this little talent can't afford to cut players with potential to make a statement.

So is getting upset because a football coach, at the highest level, cursed at you.

I don't see Pioli in a hurry to jettison the QB who constantly argued with Haley on the sidelines and was caught yelling "fuck you" in response to fans booing him.

Might have something to do with his being the leader of the football team?
:shrug:

Pollard being gone...is partly why we now have Eric Berry.
You'll excuse me if I don't join you in crying over spilled milk.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Huh?

1. Tyson Jackson is a Defensive Lineman...they typically take longer to develop.
2. He was the 5th overall pick. Pollard? Try 54th.

ENTIRELY different situation.

Have you forgotten the fact that Pollard became disgruntled at being cursed at by a first year coach trying desperately to instill a particular mindset with his new team?

Can you see how that might've had a part in his being walked?

I'll respond again to your edit.

I don't care where a player is picked.

If he shows potential, you give him more than two fucking years to show something.

I guarantee you that Pioli's first and second day picks get more than two years.

And this bullshit about DL taking longer is bullshit. It's not like safeties walk right in and play lights out either.

It takes longer than two years to hit your prime at ANY position.

[Micjones]

I'll respond again to your edit.

I don't care where a player is picked.

NFL front offices care.
That makes all the difference in the world.
You and I BOTH know that being a Top 5 pick means you'll get every opportunity in the world to pan out. Being a mid-to-low 2nd round pick? Not so much.

It takes longer than two years to hit your prime at ANY position.

No one suggested he should be in his prime after just 2 seasons.
Certainly it's not too much to ask that he make his case in 2 years though.
Whether or not he did...can be argued.

We should probably be fair and clarify that it was after his THIRD season that the team cut him.
He was NOT a two-year player.

You tend to make that clear as it relates to Cassel...
Despite his not having played much in the early-going. Let's do the same with Pollard.

[OnTheWarpath15]

So is getting upset because a football coach, at the highest level, cursed at you.



Might have something to do with his being the leader of the football team?
:shrug:

It had a lot more to do with being cursed at, and you know it. He didn't feel like he was being treated like an adult. And based on what we witnessed with Haley's tirades in the weeks prior to the Pittsburgh game, I can see his point.

If they continue to treat players like this, they'll continue to lose players.

Luckily, I think Haley realized this just before the Pittsburgh game. He magically started acting like a coach and less like a tyrant after his dad visited.

Plus there were a few reports that Clark asked him to tone it down.

[OnTheWarpath15]

NFL front offices care.
That makes all the difference in the world.
You and I BOTH know that being a Top 5 pick means you'll get every opportunity in the world to pan out. Being a mid-to-low 2nd round pick? Not so much.



No one suggested he should be in his prime after just 2 seasons.
Certainly it's not too much to ask that he make his case in 2 years though.
Whether or not he did...can be argued.

We should probably be fair and clarify that it was after his THIRD season that the team cut him.
He was NOT a two-year player.

You tend to make that clear as it relates to Cassel...
Despite his not having played much in the early-going. Let's do the same with Pollard.

I'd agree if you were talking about a 4th round pick or later.

But most 2nd round picks get more than two years to develop.

[Micjones]

It had a lot more to do with being cursed at, and you know it. He didn't feel like he was being treated like an adult. And based on what we witnessed with Haley's tirades in the weeks prior to the Pittsburgh game, I can see his point.

It's professional football. Grow a set, build a bridge and get over it Bernie.
This was a first year team. Haley was trying to overcome a softer regime that preceded his and get his team off the ground at the same time. It's called tough love. Helped Derrick Johnson.

If they continue to treat players like this, they'll continue to lose players.

It's been an issue with exactly two players.
I think they'll be fine.

[RedThat]

It's professional football. Grow a set, build a bridge and get over it Bernie.
This was a first year team. Haley was trying to overcome a softer regime that preceded his and get his team off the ground at the same time. It's called tough love. Helped Derrick Johnson.



It's been an issue with exactly two players.
I think they'll be fine.

I hoped its helped DJ. I hope his last game of the season carries over to this season and is the start of something new.

It does look like he won the organization over. whether he plays at a high level remains to be seen. My jury is still out.

[OnTheWarpath15]

It's professional football. Grow a set, build a bridge and get over it Bernie.
This was a first year team. Haley was trying to overcome a softer regime that preceded his and get his team off the ground at the same time. It's called tough love. Helped Derrick Johnson.



It's been an issue with exactly two players.
I think they'll be fine.

Helped DJ how?

By sitting his ass on the bench, even though he is far and away the most talented LB we have?

(and I know that's not saying much)

Bottom line is this:

Pollard was a casualty of Pioli's ego.

I guarantee that players like Tyson Jackson, Alex McGee, Matt Cassel, etc will get more than two years to prove themselves.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Mic, or anyone else:

I'd love to hear an argument as to why cutting Bernard Pollard was a good decision. Why cutting him makes us a better team.

[Micjones]

Helped DJ how?

Did you watch the Denver game?

By sitting his ass on the bench, even though he is far and away the most talented LB we have?

He's also done the least on the field with the most athletic ability.
And he doesn't have the kind of work ethic necessary to close that gap.

I guarantee that players like Tyson Jackson, Alex McGee, Matt Cassel, etc will get more than two years to prove themselves.

Jackson deserves more time. He was the 5th overall pick.
Cassel deserves more time. He's a QB and they've invested in him BIG.

Magee's the only player who shouldn't warrant more time.

[Hammock Parties]

Helped DJ how?

By sitting his ass on the bench, even though he is far and away the most talented LB we have?

(and I know that's not saying much)

Bottom line is this:

Pollard was a casualty of Pioli's ego.

I guarantee that players like Tyson Jackson, Alex McGee, Matt Cassel, etc will get more than two years to prove themselves.

I don't think it's as cut and dry as that.

If Pollard hadn't been playing at an abysmally low level during preseason, after turning in a shitty 2008, he may not have been cut.

But play like shit and act like shit...you get flushed.

By the way, DJ's benching was completely warranted. He proved that by missing quite a few tackles (despite his lack of PT) and doing stupid shit like blowing pass coverages...remember the Pittsburgh game?

If doing that turns him into a better player it was the right move.

[Micjones]

Mic, or anyone else:

I'd love to hear an argument as to why cutting Bernard Pollard was a good decision. Why cutting him makes us a better team.

I don't know that it was necessarily good or bad for the team.

Tell me why cutting Pollard made the team worse...

[OnTheWarpath15]

Did you watch the Denver game?



He's also done the least on the field with the most athletic ability.
And he doesn't have the kind of work ethic necessary to close that gap.



Jackson deserves more time. He was the 5th overall pick.
Cassel deserves more time. He's a QB and they've invested in him BIG.

Magee's the only player who shouldn't warrant more time.

Funny, DJ had a similar game in Baltimore.

First game of the year, before Haley started fucking with him.

To claim that Heley's mind games is going to make DJ a better player is fucking ridiculous.

He's always had the talent. What he hasn't had is solid coaching.

There's no reason he shouldn't start 16 games this year, provided he stays healthy.

To think otherwise is to say, "fuck it."

Might as well cut Albert and Bowe as well.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't know that it was necessarily good or bad for the team.

Tell me why cutting Pollard made the team worse...

I guess you didn't see what he did in Houston?

You think he couldn't have done that in KC with competent coaching?

Pollard was dead fucking right. Gunther and Pendergast were morons. Gunther played him, DJ, Dorsey and others out of position. Pendergast was just a flat-out dipshit.

Good for him that he got out.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I haven't read the thread, and I'm grilling so I'll read it later. I just wanted to chime in that Pioli and Haley totally knew Pollard was going to be great, he just wasn't a part of the right 53. You guys need to understand the process.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Seems like your argument, Mic, all boils down to him being expendable because we hadn't invested highly in him like we have Cassel and Jackson.

Those players who we haven't invested as much in, who are making a small salary, are usually the players that make or break a franchise.

Having talented low-priced players is essential to being successful and making a championship run.

Scott Pioli, of ALL FUCKING PEOPLE, should know that.

When/if McCluster and Arenas are nothing more than average the next two years, should they be flat-out cut?

They won't be, because Pioli's ego won't allow it.

Pollard wasn't his pick. Therefore, he's gone. And is successful elsewhere.

Meanwhile, his being cut proved nothing - we cut a player with potential without any reward in return.

That's bad decision making any way you slice it.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

This just shows you that Herm and company couldn't coach worth shit.


That's exactly right. It would be much different under Crennel. I said from day one that letting him go was a mistake. Now were losing Page too and we need him.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I haven't read the thread, and I'm grilling so I'll read it later. I just wanted to chime in that Pioli and Haley totally knew Pollard was going to be great, he just wasn't a part of the right 53. You guys need to understand the process.

Good point.

All hail "the process."

[OnTheWarpath15]

That's exactly right. It would be much different under Crennel. I said from day one that letting him go was a mistake. Now were losing Page too and we need him.

Damn right.

A promising player at a low salary, who was a 7th round pick but was playing like an early pick before injury.

But he'll be shipped off too.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Funny, DJ had a similar game in Baltimore.

First game of the year, before Haley started ****ing with him.

To claim that Heley's mind games is going to make DJ a better player is ****ing ridiculous.

He's always had the talent. What he hasn't had is solid coaching.

There's no reason he shouldn't start 16 games this year, provided he stays healthy.

To think otherwise is to say, "**** it."

Might as well cut Albert and Bowe as well.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Hammock Parties]

Funny, DJ had a similar game in Baltimore.

First game of the year, before Haley started fucking with him.



DJ only played 22 snaps against Baltimore.

[OnTheWarpath15]

DJ only played 22 snaps against Baltimore.

I'll save you the trouble of posting the link, because I believe you.

I also believe that those 22 snaps was likely in the Top 5 of snaps per game for him over the season.

Dude barely played last year.

[Hammock Parties]

I'll save you the trouble of posting the link, because I believe you.

I also believe that those 22 snaps was likely in the Top 5 of snaps per game for him over the season.

Dude barely played last year.

He played about 1/3 of the snaps.

And he still missed six tackles.

[BossChief]

OTWP, I would rep you for your posts in this thread cause they are SPOT ON, but I would be labeled as someone who throws rep around like hootie throws around VD.

[OnTheWarpath15]

OTWP, I would rep you for your posts in this thread cause they are SPOT ON, but I would be labeled as someone who throws rep around like hootie throws around VD.

LMAO

Thanks.

[BigMeatballDave]

He got every chance to prove he was a good player?

He was a starter for TWO years.

If you're only giving players a two year window in which to develop, you're fucked. They'll go somewhere else and develop, like Pollard has.Awesome. Lets see if Houston will trade him back to us for Berry.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Awesome. Lets see if Houston will trade him back to us for Berry.

Or we could have had both.

I think Berry has more potential at FS than he does at SS - though I think he'll be pretty fucking solid at either.

[BossChief]

Berry Bernard Brandons

The Killer Bees would have had a chance to be a VERY good secondary.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Berry Bernard Brandons

The Killer Bees would have had a chance to be a VERY good secondary.

That reminds me, I wonder if Carr is the next to go.

[MadMax]

Funny, DJ had a similar game in Baltimore.

First game of the year, before Haley started ****ing with him.

To claim that Heley's mind games is going to make DJ a better player is ****ing ridiculous.

He's always had the talent. What he hasn't had is solid coaching.

There's no reason he shouldn't start 16 games this year, provided he stays healthy.

To think otherwise is to say, "**** it."

Might as well cut Albert and Bowe as well.




Wouldn't surprise me a bit. :shake:

[RedThat]

Berry Bernard Brandons

The Killer Bees would have had a chance to be a VERY good secondary.

Keep ****ing doubting Kendrick Lewis:p

[Hammock Parties]

That reminds me, I wonder if Carr is the next to go.

Why would Carr be the next to go?

He's played at a level far exceeding anything Pollard ever did.

[BigMeatballDave]

Or we could have had both.

I think Berry has more potential at FS than he does at SS - though I think he'll be pretty fucking solid at either.I appreciate your takes, I think they're solid. However, I think your judgment on this one is clouded due to your hatred of Pioli. Pollard was clearly awful last preseason.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Why would Carr be the next to go?

He's played at a level far exceeding anything Pollard ever did.

I'm a huge fan of Carr's potential, but I don't agree that he's been that good.

He's a high round, Herm Edwards pick.

All of those guys should be on notice after what happened to Pollard.

Pollard had just as much potential as Carr, provided he was used correctly. Shockingly, he proved that last year in Houston.

Sadly, the executive of the decade didn't care that he was being used incorrectly.

[BossChief]

That reminds me, I wonder if Carr is the next to go.

not a chance, they love him. The only way he isnt a Chief for a long time is if we have to give Flowers a huge deal (in a couple years) and we are forced to trade Carr cause he wants too much and we cant give out 2 top ten contracts for CBs. His work ethic is outstanding and the kid is very well grounded.

[RedThat]

That reminds me, I wonder if Carr is the next to go.

I don't think he is that bad. Yeah he was inconsistent at times last season. I blame the passrush for the most part.

When the QB has all day to throw he is going to pick on the worst cover guy. Unfortunately, that was Carr. But, I feel if the Chiefs had a good passrush, he woulldn't be as much of a liability. He did provide good coverage at times, and at other times no so much. Kinda spells average imo.

In other words, Carr without passrush=average corner
Carr with a passrush=potential solid cover corner jmo

[BossChief]

Did you know:

that Brandon Carr was drafted as a "birthday present" for Herm Edwards.

[Hammock Parties]

I'm a huge fan of Carr's potential, but I don't agree that he's been that good.

He's a high round, Herm Edwards pick.

All of those guys should be on notice after what happened to Pollard.



I think you are showing an incredible bias against Pioli and using Pollard as a crutch.

Carr had as many passes defensed as Flowers last year. 24th rated corner in the league.

If he was bad as Pollard was prior to getting cut, we're talking William Bartee level failure.

Carr has been AT LEAST average, and last year he made significant strides. He's definitely an ASCENDING player. Pollard never was in KC.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I appreciate your takes, I think they're solid. However, I think your judgment on this one is clouded due to your hatred of Pioli. Pollard was clearly awful last preseason.

Big fucking deal.

Again, he was a two year starter. If you guy held all players in the league to the standard you're holding Pollard to, there wouldn't BE a league.

Most players, regardless of position, (RB being questionable in this scenario) don't prosper in their first two years.

Or if they do, they regress at some point - usually their 2nd or 3rd season.

[BigMeatballDave]

I think you are showing an incredible bias against Pioli and using Pollard as a crutch.

This x eleventy billion

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think you are showing an incredible bias against Pioli and using Pollard as a crutch.

Carr had as many passes defensed as Flowers last year. 24th rated corner in the league.

If he was bad as Pollard was prior to getting cut, we're talking William Bartee level failure.

Carr has been AT LEAST average, and last year he made significant strides. He's definitely an ASCENDING player. Pollard never was in KC.

Carr had that many passes defensed because teams rather not throw at Flowers.

I don't know how to make it any clearer: you can't expect a player to be a plus player after two years starting.

You have to rely on your scouting and coaching that the kid becomes what you thought he'd be.

Pioli didn't draft him, and IMO, didn't do his homework before cutting him.

Pollard's performance in Houston bears this out.

[BigMeatballDave]

Big fucking deal.

Again, he was a two year starter. If you guy held all players in the league to the standard you're holding Pollard to, there wouldn't BE a league.

Most players, regardless of position, (RB being questionable in this scenario) don't prosper in their first two years.

Or if they do, they regress at some point - usually their 2nd or 3rd season.So, Pollard made mistakes and gets cut. You defend him by saying he deserved more time. Pioli makes mistakes in his 1st season here and you hate him with the power of a thousand Suns. Hmmm...:)

[Hammock Parties]

Carr had that many passes defensed because teams rather not throw at Flowers.

I don't know how to make it any clearer: you can't expect a player to be a plus player after two years starting.


Actually they had a similar number of targets. In fact, Flowers was targeted more.

I also think there's a huge difference between being a plus player and being one the worst in your league at your position.

I never expected Pollard to be Steve Atwater. But making some progress towards Reggie Tongue would have been nice.

[BossChief]

If he was bad as Pollard was prior to getting cut, we're talking William Bartee level failure.

Carr has been AT LEAST average, and last year he made significant strides. He's definitely an ASCENDING player. Pollard never was in KC.

talent evaluation fail

Bartee should have never been a corner and Pollard should have never been a cover two safety.

Let me ask you this:

If you were the coach and you put Dexter McCluster at fullback, would that be a knock on Dexter or you when it fails?

[Hammock Parties]

So, Pollard made mistakes and gets cut. You defend him by saying he deserved more time. Pioli makes mistakes in his 1st season here and you hate him with the power of a thousand Suns. Hmmm...:)

Here, let me insert the "GM of the decade" response.

[OnTheWarpath15]

This x eleventy billion

Time will tell.

When players like Cassel, Jackson, McGee, McCluster, Arenas, etc get more than two years to prove themselves, we can revisit this.

Forgive me for seeing through this regime's bullshit.

They claim they have no sacred cows, yet players like Mike Goff, Larry Johnson and Mike Brown started last year, even though there were better options on the roster.

So either they are full of shit, or they really don't have any sacred cows, they just can't evaluate talent.

I hope the addition of Weis and Crennel changes things in this regard.

[RedThat]

Carr is solid imo.

We could live with him.

We NEED a passrush. That is the main issue. I liked what Hali did this year, but, I feel they could use more production on the opposite side or just better passrush from the team in general. perhaps blitz more and take advantage of the overall team speed. We have some speed on D w/ DJ, Arenas, and blitz Berry while you can.

[BossChief]

Most of the time when Carr got beat, it was after the play was going for more than 4 seconds.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Pollard blocked more punts the last thre years than all the Chiefs players combined. So there !

[BossChief]

Time will tell.

When players like Cassel, Jackson, McGee, McCluster, Arenas, etc get more than two years to prove themselves, we can revisit this.

Forgive me for seeing through this regime's bullshit.

They claim they have no sacred cows, yet players like Mike Goff, Larry Johnson and Mike Brown started last year, even though there were better options on the roster.

So either they are full of shit, or they really don't have any sacred cows, they just can't evaluate talent.

I hope the addition of Weis and Crennel changes things in this regard.

all three players you listed arent here anymore.

[RedThat]

Most of the time when Carr got beat, it was after the play was going for more than 4 seconds.

Well, if he is covering for more than 4 seconds that should tell every fan he has what it takes to be a solid corner with a good passrush.

[FAX]

For my part, I'm glad that HopeCrusher is improving. For his sake, anyhow. He was one of the greatest whiffers in league history while he was here.

FAX

[OnTheWarpath15]

talent evaluation fail

Bartee should have never been a corner and Pollard should have never been a cover two safety.

Let me ask you this:

If you were the coach and you put Dexter McCluster at fullback, would that be a knock on Dexter or you when it fails?

Exactly.

Pollard came out and slammed Gunther for playing him more in coverage than in the box, and people agree with him.

Then when Clancy wants to do the same thing and Pollard chimes in and gets cut, Pollard's the anti-Christ.

I swear, there are about 20 people here that actually stick with their opinions.

Fuck no, Cassel's shit.

Oh, he's a Chief now? Championship!

McCluster in the 2nd round? What a reach.

Oh, he's a Chief now? The black Wes Welker11!!1elev!enty

[Mr. Flopnuts]

OTWP, I would rep you for your posts in this thread cause they are SPOT ON, but I would be labeled as someone who throws rep around like hootie throws around VD.

Hootie would be the first person to tell you that you should disregard everything that comes out of his mouth.

[BossChief]

Pollard blocked more punts the last thre years than all the Chiefs players combined. So there !

that is the part that stings the most for me.

If he was gonna be replaced in the starting lineup by someone else, fine, just let him lead the NFL in special teams tackles and blocks.

[BigMeatballDave]

Time will tell.

When players like Cassel, Jackson, McGee, McCluster, Arenas, etc get more than two years to prove themselves, we can revisit this.

Forgive me for seeing through this regime's bullshit.

They claim they have no sacred cows, yet players like Mike Goff, Larry Johnson and Mike Brown started last year, even though there were better options on the roster.

So either they are full of shit, or they really don't have any sacred cows, they just can't evaluate talent.

I hope the addition of Weis and Crennel changes things in this regard.Pioli and Haley are NOT without their faults. Plenty-o-shitty decisions all around. That said, if they genuinely did not like Pollard due to his attitude and shitty play, what other choice did they have but to cut him?

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Keep ****ing doubting Kendrick Lewis:p

Bernard Pollard was NO team captain.

[Hammock Parties]

Forgive me for seeing through this regime's bullshit.

They claim they have no sacred cows, yet players like Mike Goff, Larry Johnson and Mike Brown started last year, even though there were better options on the roster.

I think the fact that Goff, Johnson and Brown are all GONE (and Goff and Johnson were gone midseason) is evidence that this regime can admit a mistake, cut their losses and move on.

ESPECIALLY Mike Brown. As much as they talked him up last year, the fact he's gone and not coming back is a positive sign.

[OnTheWarpath15]

all three players you listed arent here anymore.

Anymore?

They all started and played last year while better players were either cut, or rode the bench.

Christ, Charles was DEACTIVATED for a game last year.

Wade Smith didn't see the field until Goff was hurt.

Todd Haley's "favorite player of all time" made Bernard Pollard look like Ronnie fucking Lott.

I swear, some of you forget how retarded last year was.

[RedThat]

that is the part that stings the most for me.

If he was gonna be replaced in the starting lineup by someone else, fine, just let him lead the NFL in special teams tackles and blocks.

Yeah but then guaranteed guys would be saying, "Sh*t we drafted a safety in the second round just to block punts?!?!"

*That is no offense to anyone, but I could see guys saying that..Hey we are on Chiefsplanet after all?

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think the fact that Goff, Johnson and Brown are all GONE (and Goff and Johnson were gone midseason) is evidence that this regime can admit a mistake, cut their losses and move on.

ESPECIALLY Mike Brown. As much as they talked him up last year, the fact he's gone and not coming back is a positive sign.

Why did they make the mistake to begin with?

Most people here, just casual fans knew when those players were signed that there were better players already on the roster.

[BossChief]

Here's to hoping that DJ doesn't go the way of Pollard. If he moves on after this year and ends up in Dallas or Baltimore, he will BLOW UP.

[Hammock Parties]

Why did they make the mistake to begin with?

Most people here, just casual fans knew when those players were signed that there were better players already on the roster.

I agree they made mistakes. But to cite Goff, etc, as sacred cows, seems like a stretch.

In fact I would cite guys like Wallace Gilberry as evidence that Pioli and Haley have no bias against players from the previous regime.

The only obvious sacred cows are Cassel and Vrabel.

[RedThat]

I think the fact that Goff, Johnson and Brown are all GONE (and Goff and Johnson were gone midseason) is evidence that this regime can admit a mistake, cut their losses and move on.

ESPECIALLY Mike Brown. As much as they talked him up last year, the fact he's gone and not coming back is a positive sign.

Yeah thats a good point.

Mind you, Mike Brown was signed to a one year deal. Even though he sucked, it didn't hurt the organization as much since the contract wasn't long term. Just was a chance they took, unfortunately it didn't work out. Props to Pioli & co for signing him short term.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Here's to hoping that DJ doesn't go the way of Pollard. If he moves on after this year and ends up in Dallas or Baltimore, he will BLOW UP.

Yep.

I see Bowe going down this road too, sadly.

[Hammock Parties]

Here's to hoping that DJ doesn't go the way of Pollard. If he moves on after this year and ends up in Dallas or Baltimore, he will BLOW UP.

Or he could just miss more tackles.

The guy got a few nice interceptions and a couple sacks but to paint him as this dominant force waiting to emerge is silly.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Or he could just miss more tackles.

The guy got a few nice interceptions and a couple sacks but to paint him as this dominant force waiting to emerge is silly.

Anything above average is a HUGE improvement over any other LB on this roster.

He doesn't have to be dominant.

But there's no doubt in my mind he'd be a solid player elsewhere.

[Hammock Parties]

Yep.

I see Bowe going down this road too, sadly.

Oh, please.

Bowe will definitely go "down that road" if he doesn't stop DROPPING THE BALL!

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'll leave it at this:

It was an obvious mistake that can't be excused, and I'm just glad to be talking football.

[Hammock Parties]

Yeah, you bastard, kudos on drawing me into the debate.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Oh, please.

Bowe will definitely go "down that road" if he doesn't stop DROPPING THE BALL!

The drops are so blown out of proportion.

IIRC, in 2008, Marques Colston had 2 fewer drops than Bowe.

I doubt anyone would be ragging his ass over it.

Andre Johnson's been on the Top 10 list, as has Calvin Johnson.

Good WR's drop the ball.

To get pissy over less than a drop per game is a waste of breath.

Especially when drops are such a subjective stat.

[FAX]

Why did they make the mistake to begin with?

Most people here, just casual fans knew when those players were signed that there were better players already on the roster.

I don't disagree.

However, from a coach's point of view, there is more to the evaluation process than a long-distance assessment of which player is "better" from a talent perspective, Mr. OnTheWarpath58. I mean, they have to know the playbook, practice with consistency, prove their ability to deal with adversity, etc.

Although I've disagreed with many of the current regime's player decisions (particularly in respect to the o-line), I have to admit that I lack a complete, comprehensive picture of those players' ability to contribute.

It reasonable to assume that, for every thing we think we know about a player, there are ten things we don't know.

FAX

[FAX]

I still wonder how much of Bowe's "drops" problem is Cassel-related. Bowe wasn't the only receiver dropping passes.

FAX

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't disagree.

However, from a coach's point of view, there is more to the evaluation process than a long-distance assessment of which player is "better" from a talent perspective, Mr. OnTheWarpath58. I mean, they have to know the playbook, practice with consistency, prove their ability to deal with adversity, etc.

Although I've disagreed with many of the current regime's player decisions (particularly in respect to the o-line), I have to admit that I lack a complete, comprehensive picture of those players' ability to contribute.

It reasonable to assume that, for every thing we think we know about a player, there are ten things we don't know.

FAX

I agree to an extent, Mr. FAX.

However, this regime has shown that they struggle to evaluate "talent" that's been right under their nose - forget long distance.

See: Cassel, Matt. Brown, Mike. Long, Lance. Vrabel, Mike. Etc.

Pioli's not the only decision maker in pro sports that have fucked up by placing more importance on having "his guys" over more talented players, and he won't be the last.

That doesn't make it excusable, however.

[BossChief]

It reasonable to assume that, for every thing we think we know about a player, there are ten things we don't know.

FAX

Well, I think that between most guys heres eye test, we know probably about 75-90% about most PLAYERS. Its the PERSON we dont know much about and that is arguably about equal in weight in the evaluation process.

Does the kid think he is just better than everyone else and doesn't work the way the other guy does that isnt far behind him? Give me the kid with the better work ethic that may be a hair behind the other kid as far as talent goes because that is the kid that will be successful three years down the line when the REAL STORY of a PLAYER is told.

[RedThat]

I don't disagree.

However, from a coach's point of view, there is more to the evaluation process than a long-distance assessment of which player is "better" from a talent perspective, Mr. OnTheWarpath58. I mean, they have to know the playbook, practice with consistency, prove their ability to deal with adversity, etc.

Although I've disagreed with many of the current regime's player decisions (particularly in respect to the o-line), I have to admit that I lack a complete, comprehensive picture of those players' ability to contribute.

It reasonable to assume that, for every thing we think we know about a player, there are ten things we don't know.

FAX

Your last sentence FAX stands strong. There are prolly a lot of things we don't know. For example, relationship between players and coaches. That is critcal when it comes to overall team chemistry and performance.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I still wonder how much of Bowe's "drops" problem is Cassel-related. Bowe wasn't the only receiver dropping passes.

FAX

Again, drops are a subjective stat.

If the ball is thrown well behind Bowe, and he has to attempt a circus catch and fails, is that a drop?

It shouldn't be.

Are the decision makers checking replays to see if the defender got a piece of the ball, or are they going on what they see at full speed?

I can think of 2 or 3 instances last year where people here got pissy over a supposed drop and the replay showed the defender getting a hand on the ball.

[Reerun_KC]

I don't disagree.

However, from a coach's point of view, there is more to the evaluation process than a long-distance assessment of which player is "better" from a talent perspective, Mr. OnTheWarpath58. I mean, they have to know the playbook, practice with consistency, prove their ability to deal with adversity, etc.

Although I've disagreed with many of the current regime's player decisions (particularly in respect to the o-line), I have to admit that I lack a complete, comprehensive picture of those players' ability to contribute.

It reasonable to assume that, for every thing we think we know about a player, there are ten things we don't know.

FAX

:eek:

That was a bold statement, considering some feel their opinion is fact....

[RedThat]

Again, drops are a subjective stat.

If the ball is thrown well behind Bowe, and he has to attempt a circus catch and fails, is that a drop?

It shouldn't be.

Are the decision makers checking replays to see if the defender got a piece of the ball, or are they going on what they see at full speed?

I can think of 2 or 3 instances last year where people here got pissy over a supposed drop and the replay showed the defender getting a hand on the ball.

There are really a lot of factors to consider to determine whether it was the QB's fault or the WRs fault for the dropped passes. I agree with you on this.

[Reerun_KC]

Also, would be cool to see Pollard make a Pro Bowler...

[RedThat]

Also, would be cool to see Pollard make a Pro Bowler...

no no no no no...it would make me feel miserable.

[Reerun_KC]

no no no no no...it would make me feel miserable.

Nah, no need to cry over what is done...

[Hammock Parties]

The drops are so blown out of proportion.

IIRC, in 2008, Marques Colston had 2 fewer drops than Bowe.

I doubt anyone would be ragging his ass over it.


Who's talking about 2008?

Bowe had 9 drops last year. Only 47 catches.

Colston had 10 drops, 70 catches.

Johnson had 10 drops, 101 catches.

Either way I'm more worried about Bowe's off the field behavior. If that keeps up Pioli will be completely justified in dumping DumBowe.

[RedThat]

Bernard Pollard was NO team captain.

Uh huh..Exactly!!

[KCBOSS1]

I liked him too. He got beat some, but he was a kid. He hit like crazy.

[RedThat]

Nah, no need to cry over what is done...

I know...I hope Kendrick Lewis will come through for us though. That would make up for the loss of Pollard.:D

[Reerun_KC]

I know...I hope Kendrick Lewis will come through for us though. That would make up for the loss of Pollard.:D

Well see. This is going to be an exciting year, I cant wait for that monday night!!!!!

[OnTheWarpath15]

Who's talking about 2008?

Bowe had 9 drops last year. Only 47 catches.

Colston had 10 drops, 70 catches.

Johnson had 10 drops, 101 catches.

Either way I'm more worried about Bowe's off the field behavior. If that keeps up Pioli will be completely justified in dumping DumBowe.

He's been chastised for drops since we drafted him.

Just pointing out that premier WR's drop the ball at a similar rate.

Not sure why you'd be surprised that his drop rate rose while Haley was constantly up his ass.

[BossChief]

Who's talking about 2008?

Bowe had 9 drops last year. Only 47 catches.

Colston had 10 drops, 70 catches.

Johnson had 10 drops, 101 catches.

Either way I'm more worried about Bowe's off the field behavior. If that keeps up Pioli will be completely justified in dumping DumBowe.how many of those drops can you objectively say were the fault of Cassel?

2? 3? 4?

Id say 3 and that would make his average a lot more on par with those guys.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I know...I hope Kendrick Lewis will come through for us though. That would make up for the loss of Pollard.:D

Picture a slower Mike Brown (2009, not Brown in his prime) but with better instincts.

That's Kendrick Lewis.

[Hammock Parties]

He's been chastised for drops since we drafted him.

Just pointing out that premier WR's drop the ball at a similar rate.

Not sure why you'd be surprised that his drop rate rose while Haley was constantly up his ass.

Well, this is just me, but I never had a problem with Bowe's apparent "butterfingers" before last year, because he was caught 86 balls in 08.

Catch only 47, and miss 5 games, and it's a problem.

[Micjones]

Funny, DJ had a similar game in Baltimore.

Half as many tackles, half as many INT's, 2 fewer TD's, 3 fewer passes defensed. Sounds similar.

To claim that Heley's mind games is going to make DJ a better player is fucking ridiculous.

Remains to be seen, but I suspect his being challenged will help.

To think otherwise is to say, "fuck it."

Might as well cut Albert and Bowe as well.

Yeah. Like they cut Johnson.
:rolleyes:

[-King-]

He's been chastised for drops since we drafted him.

Just pointing out that premier WR's drop the ball at a similar rate.

Not sure why you'd be surprised that his drop rate rose while Haley was constantly up his ass.

9:47
10:70
10:101

is not the same rate.

Like GoChiefs is saying...if he can balance out the drops with catches, then fine. But if he has less than 50 catches but still 9 drops, then that's a problem.

[Micjones]

I guess you didn't see what he did in Houston?

Yes, I saw him play inspired football after being walked by the team that drafted him with an infinitely more talented assortment of defensive players around him.

You think he couldn't have done that in KC with competent coaching?

It's hard to say...

[OnTheWarpath15]

Well, this is just me, but I never had a problem with Bowe's apparent "butterfingers" before last year, because he was caught 86 balls in 08.

Catch only 47, and miss 5 games, and it's a problem.

So let's get to the root of the issue:

Why only 47 catches?

For one, he was only getting targeted 3-5 times a game over the first half of the season.

Then he missed 4 games.

If you remember, me, among others were pissed that we were running an offense through LJ, Wade and Long and not Bowe.

There were tons of plays that Bowe wasn't even looked at.

49th among WR in targets with 87. 7.25 per game.

He was 3rd in the league in targets in 2008 with 157. 9.81 targets per game.

If he was targeted more, there's no doubt he would have met or exceeded his stats from 2008.

[Reerun_KC]

Yes, I saw him play inspired football after being walked by the team that drafted him with an infinitely more talented assortment of defensive players around him.



It's hard to say...


He played very well in Houston... Now he has a chip on his shoulder to prove people wrong...

[BossChief]

9:47
10:70
10:101

is not the same rate.

Like GoChiefs is saying...if he can balance out the drops with catches, then fine. But if he has less than 50 catches but still 9 drops, then that's a problem.
Matt Cassel

[OnTheWarpath15]

9:47
10:70
10:101

is not the same rate.

Like GoChiefs is saying...if he can balance out the drops with catches, then fine. But if he has less than 50 catches but still 9 drops, then that's a problem.

Funny how you ignore the stat I posted for 2008.

And ignore BossChief's post.

And ignore that drops are a subjective stat. What's considered a drop in Kc may not be considered a drop in Houston or New Orleans.

Which is why it's fucking retarded to get worked up over.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Half as many tackles, half as many INT's, 2 fewer TD's, 3 fewer passes defensed. Sounds similar.



Remains to be seen, but I suspect his being challenged will help.



Yeah. Like they cut Johnson.
:rolleyes:

Holy shit.

You really want to imply that Johnson's gone because of his PLAY?

Had LJ stayed out of trouble, Charles would have never saw the field. Fuck, he was INACTIVE for a game, that's how much the staff thought of him.

Just like Wade Smith not seeing the field had Goff not gotten hurt.

[Micjones]

Seems like your argument, Mic, all boils down to him being expendable because we hadn't invested highly in him like we have Cassel and Jackson.

Or it might also be mindful of the fact that he was disgruntled in year one of a regime change, was a liability in pass coverage and missed far too many tackles.

Those players who we haven't invested as much in, who are making a small salary, are usually the players that make or break a franchise.

I'm doing my best not to create a strawman out of this excerpt, but you're making it difficult. Do you really believe losing Pollard BREAKS this franchise?

Having talented low-priced players is essential to being successful and making a championship run.

On this point we agree.

When/if McCluster and Arenas are nothing more than average the next two years, should they be flat-out cut?

Given their roles... Unless they both show something... I wouldn't at all be surprised to see one or both of them gone from or at least have a reduced role on this team.

[BossChief]

Ive said it before, I think Bowe has the potential to be almost identical to TO. The big yardage, the big play ability, the competitor, the consistent lack of concentration drops...lets just hope Haley gets his hooks in him so that he doesnt develop into the same type of cancer. I think he will and like Ive been saying I see Bowe going for over 1250 yards this year with 12 or more touchdowns. That should be about the norm IMO from here on out with the work he seemingly has been putting in to improve.

He is a kid, but a good kid. Just immature.

[RedThat]

Picture a slower Mike Brown (2009, not Brown in his prime) but with better instincts.

That's Kendrick Lewis.

I'll take the instincts. Put him at SS. But is he really that slow??

[OnTheWarpath15]

Or it might also be mindful of the fact that he was disgruntled in year one of a regime change, was a liability in pass coverage and missed far too many tackles.

I'm mindful of the fact that is was going into his third year of being mis-used.

If Clancy Pendergast wasn't just as incompetent as Gunther, I wonder if we're even having this conversation.

He was a liability in pass coverage because he was constantly asked to play in coverage. It'd be like putting Tamba Hali at MLB. He'd get abused, because he's being asked to do something that doesn't benefit him or the team.





I'm doing my best not to create a strawman out of this excerpt, but you're making it difficult. Do you really believe losing Pollard BREAKS this franchise?


Losing Pollard alone? Of course not.

Treating young players like shit and cutting them when they defend themselves, however, has the potential to become a bigger issue.

I know I'm not the only person that saw a change in attitude in this team after the Pittsburgh game - i.e. the first game after Haley realized he wasn't getting anywhere by ranting, raving and treating players and assistant coaches like shit.




Given their roles... Unless they both show something... I wouldn't at all be surprised to see one or both of them gone from or at least have a reduced role on this team.

I don't agree. I am enjoying the football talk though.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'll take the instincts. Put him at SS. But is he really that slow??

You can time the kid with a sundial.

For example, Rolando McClain, rookie MLB for the Raiders - and considered slow by most here - had a better 40 time and weighs 70 pounds more.

[Micjones]

Holy shit.

You really want to imply that Johnson's gone because of his PLAY?

Derrick Johnson sir. Derrick Johnson.

[BossChief]

However big a mistake it was to let Pollard go, it made an impact on the team. It sent a message of how they were going to be doing business at 1 arrowhead drive. It was no longer "Club Herm" and cussing and such was gonna be part off the coaching, as were having higher standards and different motivational techniques.

I find it very assuring that it was taken correctly by the team, as the only one that hasn't been to ALL of the voluntary and mandatory workouts this offseason was Page. The team bought into what they are selling and hopefully that starts to show on the field throughout this year. I cant remember that EVER happening for as long as Ive been emotionally invested into this team. It should not go unnoticed.

Its just too bad they couldn't "make it work" and have had the same message gone over without losing one of our younger ascending players in "the process".

[BossChief]

You can time the kid with a sundial.

For example, Rolando McClain, rookie MLB for the Raiders - and considered slow by most here - had a better 40 time and weighs 70 pounds more.

Some players don't have to be very fast though if they are well prepared and that is the card this kid is carrying.

I hope he can be a young Sammy Knight for us. I think he can be, but Im not so sure he will be.

[Hammock Parties]

Its just too bad they couldn't "make it work" and have had the same message gone over without losing one of our younger ascending players in "the process".

Once again: Pollard was not ascending. He was shit, was having a shit preseason, and was flushed.

[Micjones]

However big a mistake it was to let Pollard go, it made an impact on the team. It sent a message of how they were going to be doing business at 1 arrowhead drive. It was no longer "Club Herm" and cussing and such was gonna be part off the coaching, as were having higher standards and different motivational techniques.

I find it very assuring that it was taken correctly by the team, as the only one that hasn't been to ALL of the voluntary and mandatory workouts this offseason was Page. The team bought into what they are selling and hopefully that starts to show on the field throughout this year. I cant remember that EVER happening for as long as Ive been emotionally invested into this team. It should not go unnoticed.


Excellent points.

[Reerun_KC]

However big a mistake it was to let Pollard go, it made an impact on the team. It sent a message of how they were going to be doing business at 1 arrowhead drive. It was no longer "Club Herm" and cussing and such was gonna be part off the coaching, as were having higher standards and different motivational techniques.

I find it very assuring that it was taken correctly by the team, as the only one that hasn't been to ALL of the voluntary and mandatory workouts this offseason was Page. The team bought into what they are selling and hopefully that starts to show on the field throughout this year. I cant remember that EVER happening for as long as Ive been emotionally invested into this team. It should not go unnoticed.

Its just too bad they couldn't "make it work" and have had the same message gone over without losing one of our younger ascending players in "the process".

Agreed, he was an up and coming player. Might of been a solid player for many years. From the looks of it, maybe it was a mistake. But you never know. We only see what we hear and read about. We dont know what is truly happening inside...

[OnTheWarpath15]

Derrick Johnson sir. Derrick Johnson.

My mistake.

[RedThat]

You can time the kid with a sundial.

For example, Rolando McClain, rookie MLB for the Raiders - and considered slow by most here - had a better 40 time and weighs 70 pounds more.

Keep in mind though, sometimes we could tend to focus too much on speed.

Maybe the kid has other attributes that could makeup for his lack of speed? There are guys out there that are slow but are good football players. Im not just speaking from the saftey position mind you.

[OnTheWarpath15]

However big a mistake it was to let Pollard go, it made an impact on the team. It sent a message of how they were going to be doing business at 1 arrowhead drive. It was no longer "Club Herm" and cussing and such was gonna be part off the coaching, as were having higher standards and different motivational techniques.

I find it very assuring that it was taken correctly by the team, as the only one that hasn't been to ALL of the voluntary and mandatory workouts this offseason was Page. The team bought into what they are selling and hopefully that starts to show on the field throughout this year. I cant remember that EVER happening for as long as Ive been emotionally invested into this team. It should not go unnoticed.

Its just too bad they couldn't "make it work" and have had the same message gone over without losing one of our younger ascending players in "the process".

I mentioned this earlier, but I don't think the players started buying in until the week of the Pittsburgh game, when it was rumored that Clark Hunt personally asked Haley to tone it down.

He did for the rest of the season, and I think the response was noticeable.

Do you respond favorably when your boss yells and screams at you, and treats you like a child?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Some players don't have to be very fast though if they are well prepared and that is the card this kid is carrying.

Agreed, to an extent.

All the preparation in the world isn't going to make up for running a 4.72 forty at a position where speed is extremely important.

Does a player have to be very fast? No.

But they can't be very slow.

4.72 is slow for a LB, much less a DB.

[BossChief]

I mentioned this earlier, but I don't think the players started buying in until the week of the Pittsburgh game, when it was rumored that Clark Hunt personally asked Haley to tone it down.

He did for the rest of the season, and I think the response was noticeable.

Do you respond favorably when your boss yells and screams at you, and treats you like a child?

Im not gonna spend one keystroke defending Clancy, but I will say that I got yelled at about every practice and I learned to do it right so I wouldnt get yelled at. Shit, Ive been yelled at for passing out during wind sprints on a 95 degree day.

Difference is my coach knew what he was doing.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Im not gonna spend one keystroke defending Clancy, but I will say that I got yelled at about every practice and I learned to do it right so I wouldnt get yelled at. Shit, Ive been yelled at for passing out during wind sprints on a 95 degree day.

Difference is my coach knew what he was doing.

No, the difference is that you were a fucking kid, and playing football wasn't your JOB.

[BossChief]

Agreed, to an extent.

All the preparation in the world isn't going to make up for running a 4.72 forty at a position where speed is extremely important.

Does a player have to be very fast? No.

But they can't be very slow.

4.72 is slow for a LB, much less a DB.

Well, I bet Sammy Knight could never crack 4.7, but he was very smart and had a knack for being in the right place at the right time and was one of the best players at taking the ball away. Hopefully, under our current defensive coaches this kid will develop into a similar player.

[DeezNutz]

Shit, Ive been yelled at for passing out during wind sprints on a 95 degree day.

Difference is my coach knew what he was doing.

Yeah, uh, the evidence you've just presented says, "No. Your coach was a ****ing knucklehead."

[BossChief]

Yeah, uh, the evidence you've just presented says, "No. Your coach was a ****ing knucklehead."

All great coaches go too far at times.

He wanted us to have NO weaknesses, mentally or physically. He wanted to know each of our limits and how we responded if pushed beyond them and always let us know after the year what the defining points were. That was one for me.

Right or wrong, it made me a stronger person and it was a defining moment in my life. Some may or may not be able to relate to that.

[DeezNutz]

All great coaches go too far at times.

He wanted us to have NO weaknesses, mentally or physically. He wanted to know each of our limits and how we responded if pushed beyond them and always let us know after the year what the defining points were. That was one for me.

Right or wrong, it made me a stronger person and it was a defining moment in my life. Some may or may not be able to relate to that.

Just whipping some shit.

But yelling at the passed-out player is epically stupid, to say the very least.

[OnTheWarpath15]

All great coaches go too far at times.

He wanted us to have NO weaknesses, mentally or physically. He wanted to know each of our limits and how we responded if pushed beyond them and always let us know after the year what the defining points were. That was one for me.

Right or wrong, it made me a stronger person and it was a defining moment in my life. Some may or may not be able to relate to that.

At times, sure.

All the time, as Haley did from February to November?

Professional athletes tune that bullshit out.

The best way to get respect is to GIVE respect. Treating grown men like high school kids doesn't fly.

[BossChief]

Just whipping some shit.

But yelling at the passed-out player is epically stupid, to say the very least.

In all fairness, it was more about how I recovered and got back into the run after doing so more than the passing out.

Football players shouldn't be coddled in times of adversity. They should be pushed harder to see how they react...chances are that is how they will react in the fourth quarter when the bullets are flying.

[OnTheWarpath15]

In all fairness, it was more about how I recovered and got back into the run after doing so more than the passing out.

Football players shouldn't be coddled in times of adversity. They should be pushed harder to see how they react...chances are that is how they will react in the fourth quarter when the bullets are flying.

Again, you're comparing high school kids to professional athletes getting paid. This is their job.

No one is saying these guys should be coddled.

You can push players and still treat them with respect. Like men, not kids.

[Psyko Tek]

Berry Bernard Brandons

The Killer Bees would have had a chance to be a VERY good secondary.

killer bees has been used
KC bBs?
B fuckin' you up
B cause we can
B little'n your ass
B4 u can


yes B4 something

B4 is the start

great I'm making up nicknames for a defense that won't exist


maybe
B3D(j)

[LaChapelle]

Kevin "turd in the punchbowl" Keitzman is in full season form
was afraid he found a toadie there for a minute

[milkman]

Keep in mind though, sometimes we could tend to focus too much on speed.

Maybe the kid has other attributes that could makeup for his lack of speed? There are guys out there that are slow but are good football players. Im not just speaking from the saftey position mind you.

Speed at free safety is kinda important.

[milkman]

Just whipping some shit.

But yelling at the passed-out player is epically stupid, to say the very least.

Wait just a cotton pickin' minute.

If he was passed out, how does he know he was being yelled at?

[BigMeatballDave]

Which is why it's fucking retarded to get worked up over.You should apply this to Pollard being cut.

[Hammock Parties]

Your hypocrisy runs deep my friend.

http://www.nrwithkisha.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/300h.jpg

[Titty Meat]

Pollard fucking sucked here it's amazing how people still defend him and Brodie fucking Crolye. Why aren't you drool tards begging to bring back Herm while your at it?

[SAUTO]

I mentioned this earlier, but I don't think the players started buying in until the week of the Pittsburgh game, when it was rumored that Clark Hunt personally asked Haley to tone it down.

He did for the rest of the season, and I think the response was noticeable.

Do you respond favorably when your boss yells and screams at you, and treats you like a child?

you keep bringing the pitt game up.


could the shift in players attitude be due to uuuummmmm,


BEATING PITTSBURGH? you know on the fied and thinking that maybe this coach might be right about what it takes to come back and beat the defending super bowl champions?
Posted via Mobile Device

[SAUTO]

Well, I bet Sammy Knight could never crack 4.7, but he was very smart and had a knack for being in the right place at the right time and was one of the best players at taking the ball away. Hopefully, under our current defensive coaches this kid will develop into a similar player.

IIRC i read here several times he ran MUCH better at his pro day. like 4.5 times.


much like peole say mccluster is slow yet there are several videos on here that show him running away from our eric berry
Posted via Mobile Device

[RedThat]

Speed at free safety is kinda important.

Oh for sure.

Don't line him up at FS. Put him at SS.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

IIRC i read here several times he ran MUCH better at his pro day. like 4.5 times.


much like peole say mccluster is slow yet there are several videos on here that show him running away from our eric berry
Posted via Mobile Device

That would be an uninformed and foolish thing for them to say. You are correct in that 40 times do not always tell the whole story.

[SAUTO]

That would be an uninformed and foolish thing for them to say. You are correct in that 40 times do not always tell the whole story.

not on here much around draft time huh?

the video would be posted and three posts someone would call him slow and quote combine numbers to try to prove their point
Posted via Mobile Device

[Titty Meat]

http://www.nrwithkisha.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/300h.jpg

Wrong thread.

[BossChief]

Pollard fucking sucked here it's amazing how people still defend him and Brodie fucking Crolye. Why aren't you drool tards begging to bring back Herm while your at it?

says the guy who was the boards biggest Mike Brown fan and biggest Brandon Carr hater...

[Titty Meat]

says the guy who was the boards biggest Mike Brown fan and biggest Brandon Carr hater...

Mike Brown was one of the best safeties in the league for years. Croyle, Pollard, and Carr haven't done shit. Whats your point?

[R&GHomer]

Holy shit.

You really want to imply that Johnson's gone because of his PLAY?

Had LJ stayed out of trouble, Charles would have never saw the field. ****, he was INACTIVE for a game, that's how much the staff thought of him.

Just like Wade Smith not seeing the field had Goff not gotten hurt.

Hell, You can add Priest Holmes to that list as well.

[DeezNutz]

At the very least, Carr has been a respectable #2 CB, and he's an ascending player.

[SAUTO]

At the very least, Carr has been a respectable #2 CB, and he's an ascending player.

i TOTALLY agree. but ive been on the carr bandwaagon since day one.
Posted via Mobile Device

[milkman]

Mike Brown was one of the best safeties in the league for years. Croyle, Pollard, and Carr haven't done shit. Whats your point?

What Mike Brown did before he joined the Chiefs is irrelevant to the discussion of what he was doing as a Chief.

Mike Brown sucked ass last year.

I'm talking giant, fat lady at the circus ass, suck.

It took you nearly a full season to wrap your itty bitty brain around that fact.

[Titty Meat]

What Mike Brown did before he joined the Chiefs is irrelevant to the discussion of what he was doing as a Chief.

Mike Brown sucked ass last year.

I'm talking giant, fat lady at the circus ass, suck.

It took you nearly a full season to wrap your itty bitty brain around that fact.

How is what Brown did before joining the Chiefs irrelevant? You realize I based what he brought to the team based upon his years in Chicago and watching him play every week as a Husker?

Where as alot of you just sit there with your thumb up your ass and say Pollard, Croyle, ect. will be good because they've made a few good plays and are young.

[milkman]

How is what Brown did before joining the Chiefs irrelevant? You realize I based what he brought to the team based upon his years in Chicago and watching him play every week as a Husker?

Where as alot of you just sit there with your thumb up your ass and say Pollard, Croyle, ect. will be good because they've made a few good plays and are young.

You misunderstand me.

I didn't say what he did as a Bear was irrelevant before he signed, and at the time of the signing.

What he did as a Bear was irrelevant to his play as a Chief as the season progressed.

You couldn't grasp the concept that he sucked.

It took you the better part of the season to grasp the concept that he sucked as a Chief.

You were too blinded by your Husker homerism to admit that he sucked.

[BossChief]

And he was epic suck

[Titty Meat]

You misunderstand me.

I didn't say what he did as a Bear was irrelevant before he signed, and at the time of the signing.

What he did as a Bear was irrelevant to his play as a Chief as the season progressed.

You couldn't grasp the concept that he sucked.

It took you the better part of the season to grasp the concept that he sucked as a Chief.

You were too blinded by your Husker homerism to admit that he sucked.

No I knew he wasn't as good as he used to be however I've always said and will say he wasn't the only problem with the defense. Do you really think Bernard Pollard would have made a difference?


And theres no Huskerhomerism he was a play making safety in this league wether he went to Nebraska or Texas. I just happend to watch him every week in college. You didn't see me begging for the Chiefs to draft Suh or Asante did you?

[Titty Meat]

Also yes it took me a few games to admit Brown sucks but it's been 3+ years and people still won't admit Pollard sucked, So did Croyle, ect.

[milkman]

No I knew he wasn't as good as he used to be however I've always said and will say he wasn't the only problem with the defense. Do you really think Bernard Pollard would have made a difference?


And theres no Huskerhomerism he was a play making safety in this league wether he went to Nebraska or Texas. I just happend to watch him every week in college. You didn't see me begging for the Chiefs to draft Suh or Asante did you?

Actually, where do you see me talking about Pollard in this thread.

Do I think he was better than the crap we had?

Yeah.

Do I lament the fact that he's gone?

No.

He's an average player, who's a little better than some here make him out to be, worse than others make him out to be.

But he was never going to be any kind of difference making player in this defense.

[Titty Meat]

Actually, where do you see me talking about Pollard in this thread.

Do I think he was better than the crap we had?

Yeah.

Do I lament the fact that he's gone?

No.

He's an average player, who's a little better than some here make him out to be, worse than others make him out to be.

But he was never going to be any kind of difference making player in this defense.


Fair enough but you know some on here are pretending he's an obvious pro bowl talent and using it as yet another excuse to bash Pioli.

[milkman]

Fair enough but you know some on here are pretending he's an obvious pro bowl talent and using it as yet another excuse to bash Pioli.

The fact that he is a better player than the crap we lined up at safety last year, regardless of his actual talent level is reason enough to bash Pioli.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Fair enough but you know some on here are pretending he's an obvious pro bowl talent and using it as yet another excuse to bash Pioli.

I've yet to see anyone in this thread claim that Pollard is an obvious Pro Bowl talent.

The fact that he is a better player than the crap we lined up at safety last year, regardless of his actual talent level is reason enough to bash Pioli.

Exactly.

[rambleonthruthefog]

pollard sucked in coverage and was an even worse tackler. he had two full years as a starter to prove himself and didn't. no team wanted to trade shit for him either. that combined with the fact that he is to much of a pussy to handle haley and there is really no debate.

[the Talking Can]

you can bash pioli for lots of things, but not pollard

the truth is almost everyone hated him and wanted him gone, and the archives make that clear....if you think pioli is a dumbass for cutting him, then you have to admit you're a dumbass too....


i mean literally there were 3-4 people who said we should keep pollard because he's going to get better.....

i can't even believe he keeps coming up...

[LaChapelle]

Berry's camaro juked him out of his leotards

[BigMeatballDave]

you can bash pioli for lots of things, but not pollard

the truth is almost everyone hated him and wanted him gone, and the archives make that clear....if you think pioli is a dumbass for cutting him, then you have to admit you're a dumbass too....


i mean literally there were 3-4 people who said we should keep pollard because he's going to get better.....

i can't even believe he keeps coming up...This. Pioli deserves some bashing. Certainly not for this. It doesnt matter if Pendergast was using him incorrectly. That doesnt have shit to do with the fact that he couldnt tackle for shit.

[Boris The Great]

The fact that he is a better player than the crap we lined up at safety last year, regardless of his actual talent level is reason enough to bash Pioli.

Who says he was a better player, though?

There is the Pollard who had to deal with no team thinking he was worth a 7th round pick, getting cut, sitting at home for a month before anyone came calling, and who landed on a defense with more help around him. That Pollard might be a better player. But that isnt the Pollard we had.

We had the Pollard who, for 2008, got an overall rating of -16.1 from Profootballfocus. For 2009, Mike Brown had an overall rating of -9.9. Both are awful, but Pollards rating is noticeably worse.

Given his prior history and his disaster of a preseason, its not exactly crazy to suggest that, had he stayed in KC, Pollard would have played just as badly (if not worse) than Brown or any other safety that was here.

[HotRoute]

I dont think Pollard is a pro-bowler at all. there is a lot of good strong safeties in the AFC that are much better such as Yeremiah Bell (MIA), Melvin Bullitt (IND), Jim Leonhard (NYJ), Troy Polamalu (PIT)*, Bob Sanders (IND)*, and hopefully Eric Berry (KC) as well


* IF THEY ARE HEALTHY

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

YES!ROFL

Perhaps he can hire LJ to carry his G2 and tie his shoelaces at the Pro Bowl this year?:hmmm::)

[jidar]

Yes, good old Bernie.

http://i32.tinypic.com/24pvqx5.gif

http://i25.tinypic.com/27xf7mg.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/34gt0sm.gif

http://i26.tinypic.com/6yjynp.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/4ucllh.gif

http://i26.tinypic.com/30j189c.gif


Just to be clear, you do understand you could cherry pick any player with lowlights just as well as with highlights right?

[Hammock Parties]

As I already stated, this wasn't cherry picking. This all happened IN ONE GAME. In THREE QUARTERS of one game.

Pollard was a shit player in Kansas City and did not appear to be changing based on the 2009 preseason.

[Rausch]

Just to be clear, you do understand you could cherry pick any player with lowlights just as well as with highlights right?

You do realize those were four missed tackles that should have been tackles?

[beach tribe]

It means everything when they all come in THREE QUARTERS of a PRESEASON game.

It illustrates perfectly why he got cut.



No, he didn't. He sucked balls in 2008 and was rated as one of the worst safeties in the entire league. (http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2008&pos=S&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1) He missed 13 tackles. Only one safety missed more that year.

I can't believe people still beat the Pollard drum. I was so excited about him after draft day, and defended for a while, but damn, it's like people just overlook what the guy did week in, and week out.

I judge a player like this: Is he a liability? Yes he was. Everytime the ball left the QBs hands, I was worried whether Pollard would be out of position, whether he would whiff, or whether he would be too slow to react. He was a talented mofo, but I want players that I can count on. Period. You just could not count on the guy consistently enough.
The Texans had nobody at S. I have heard plenty of Texans fans say that they don't trust him in coverage either, and were pissed when they didn't address the position in the draft.