Bengals Sign Terrell Owens

[-King-]

T.O. picks the Bengals
Posted by Mike Florio on July 27, 2010 5:33 PM ET
Well, it's happened. Receiver Terrell Owens has agreed to terms with the Bengals.

More to come momentarily.

per PFT

[KCrockaholic]

Nice addition for them I guess.

[Mr. Laz]

good ... now we don't have to hear about it anymore.

[Titty Meat]

Ocho Cinco, T.O, Bryant, Benson, Tank Johnson. Somethings gotta give....

[Hammock Parties]

http://i26.tinypic.com/2j44y7c.jpg

[alpha_omega]

good ... now we don't have to hear about it anymore.

Amen, brother!

[ModSocks]

This team will self destruct in 3..........2...........

[OnTheWarpath15]

This team will self destruct in 3..........2...........

Everyone said that last year, and they went from 4 wins to a home playoff game.

If they stay relatively healthy and Zimmer gets that defense playing like last year, they'll be a tough out.

Several "ifs" there, but this signing didn't make them worse.

[Jim Jones]

Doesn't matter about the attitude. He's done as a player. He can't go anymore.

[DMAC]

If you put a bunch of head cases together on a team, does that mean team chemistry is high?

[Hammock Parties]

Everyone said that last year, and they went from 4 wins to a home playoff game.


Impossible, what about the adjustment year?

[The Franchise]

Everyone said that last year, and they went from 4 wins to a home playoff game.

If they stay relatively healthy and Zimmer gets that defense playing like last year, they'll be a tough out.

Several "ifs" there, but this signing didn't make them worse.

Who is going to play where? Bryant in the slot? Owens in the slot?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Impossible, what about the adjustment year?

The Bengals process is apparently more efficient than Pioli's process.

[-King-]

Doesn't matter about the attitude. He's done as a player. He can't go anymore.

Is that why he had 800 yards on the bills last year? Is that why he had 4 straight 1000 yard seasons prior to that? Is that why he's top 3 in rec TDs the last few years?


Yep he's done.

[Sure-Oz]

Bryant isn't healthy i heard

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I still don't trust any team whose coach is Marv Lewis.

[ModSocks]

The Bengals process is apparently more efficient than Pioli's process.

Except this current bungholes regime started in oh, i don't know....2003.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Who is going to play where? Bryant in the slot? Owens in the slot?

I'd put Bryant in the slot, but that's me.

Either would create mis-matches.

[chiefzilla1501]

Everyone said that last year, and they went from 4 wins to a home playoff game.

If they stay relatively healthy and Zimmer gets that defense playing like last year, they'll be a tough out.

Several "ifs" there, but this signing didn't make them worse.

The team is already on the fritz. Maualuga will miss significant time for being a dumbass. Benson will too. And now you're going to have Chad Johnson and T.O. bitching about who doesn't get the ball and they're not even good enough at that age to be worth the hassle. They're a strong playoff hopeful because the Steelers and Browns are going to have rough patches.

The team is grossly overrated. They made the playoffs because they had a cakewalk schedule. The Browns were terrible, the Steelers turned out to be duds, and they played the AFC West and NFC North which is like playing an 8-year old kid in one-on-one basketball.

[chiefzilla1501]

I still don't trust any team whose coach is Marv Lewis.

I think Marvin Lewis gets a bad rep. The problem in Cincy isn't Lewis. It's Mike Brown. I've always thought he was an idiot, but he makes it even tougher on the coach when he has no regard whatsoever for character/leadership.

[Jim Jones]

Is that why he had 800 yards on the bills last year? Is that why he had 4 straight 1000 yard seasons prior to that? Is that why he's top 3 in rec TDs the last few years?


Yep he's done.

He is done. His numbers have been dropping for the last few years and he's turning 37 this upcoming season. He's lost most of the physical abilities that made him a top-flight receiver and with his questionable hands, that doesn't bode well. He's old, slow and at this point, he's only going to continue sliding downhill. I'd rather take my chance on a young receiver. To me this is the same thing as LaDanian Tomlinson with the Jets.

[chefsos]

Not a surprise at all. I don't really have anything of significance to add (this is also no surprise), but it's really a perfect fit. Marvin Lewis is accustomed to dealing with knuckleheads.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I still don't trust any team whose coach is Marv Lewis.

Now, this I can get behind.

Cincinnati is just San Diego East.

Plenty of talent, shitty HC.

[mcaj22]

He is done. His numbers have been dropping for the last few years and he's turning 37 this upcoming season. He's lost most of the physical abilities that made him a top-flight receiver and with his questionable hands, that doesn't bode well. He's old, slow and at this point, he's only going to continue sliding downhill. I'd rather take my chance on a young receiver. To me this is the same thing as LaDanian Tomlinson with the Jets.



I wouldn't really say he's done, in Buffalo last season, he had 20% of their catches, 25% of their yards, and 30% of their TD's in the passing game. In his best season in Dallas he had 25% of the catches, 25% of the yards, and 35% of the TD's....in his best in Philly, 30%, 30%, and 35%...so his year in Buffalo he was as much a #1 WR as he was on much better teams...Buffalo just blows at passing

His yards per catch were right on par with every other season of his career, and he still had big games against Jacksonville and Miami mid-season. Moreover, he finished the season stronger than he started (600yds in games 9-16 against 300ish in 1-8)

I hate the guy, but he's not done.

[Phobia]

What happened to that idiot they drafted a couple years ago?

[Titty Meat]

Jerome Simpson never worked out. Neither will Shipley.

[chefsos]

What happened to that idiot they drafted a couple years ago?Given that it's the Bengals, you're gonna need to be way more specific.

[ClevelandBronco]

What happened to that idiot they drafted a couple years ago?

Now THAT was a good pickup.

[Phobia]

Now THAT was a good pickup.

Heh. He couldn't take a hit though.

[chefsos]

It's becoming clear to me now.

*ahem*

You need to hit the ground running in the NFL and he, well, you know...

[CoMoChief]

He is done. His numbers have been dropping for the last few years and he's turning 37 this upcoming season. He's lost most of the physical abilities that made him a top-flight receiver and with his questionable hands, that doesn't bode well. He's old, slow and at this point, he's only going to continue sliding downhill. I'd rather take my chance on a young receiver. To me this is the same thing as LaDanian Tomlinson with the Jets.

TO plays his ass off if the team's playing well.

TO fucks off when his team stinks. Last season he was on a horrible Bills team. He had no motivation whatsoever.

He kicked ass when he played for Dallas.

Carson's the best QB he's had since playing w/ McNabb. Owens will be fine next season.

[ModSocks]

I don't know if i can handle all the Bengals to the SB talk now. Im barely getting over all the jets to the SB talk.

[Fritz88]

Ocho and T.O. Interesting.

[chiefzilla1501]

TO plays his ass off if the team's playing well.

TO ****s off when his team stinks. Last season he was on a horrible Bills team. He had no motivation whatsoever.

He kicked ass when he played for Dallas.

Carson's the best QB he's had since playing w/ McNabb. Owens will be fine next season.

Statistically yes. But in Dallas, it was clear he was losing more than a step. And Ochocinco is starting to decline a bit too. And I disagree that Carson's the best QB he's had since McNabb. For as much shit as he gets, most people would rate Romo well ahead of Carson Palmer. Palmer can't do shit if there's any hint of pressure, which is a shame because he lost a big piece of his running game and his offensive line is not good.

The Bengals have become a running team for a reason. They added horses to the receiver corps but that's not going to matter when they have a much harder throwing/more accurate version of Damon Huard in the pocket.

[JD10367]

Ocho and T.O. Interesting.

Yes. And Palmer can get them the ball. This is a good pickup for them.

[CoMoChief]

Yes. And Palmer can get them the ball. This is a good pickup for them.

exactly.

[-King-]

Statistically yes. But in Dallas, it was clear he was losing more than a step. And Ochocinco is starting to decline a bit too. And I disagree that Carson's the best QB he's had since McNabb. For as much shit as he gets, most people would rate Romo well ahead of Carson Palmer. Palmer can't do shit if there's any hint of pressure, which is a shame because he lost a big piece of his running game and his offensive line is not good.

The Bengals have become a running team for a reason. They added horses to the receiver corps but that's not going to matter when they have a much harder throwing/more accurate version of Damon Huard in the pocket.

I don't know how you're losing a step when you have 1000, 1300, and 1100 seasons.

[chiefzilla1501]

I don't know how you're losing a step when you have 1000, 1300, and 1100 seasons.

Stats don't always tell the whole story. TO was a good receiver for Dallas, but he wasn't the dominant presence he was earlier in his career where your entire gameplan revolved around him. Miles Austin is a good player, but the fact that he had a 1,300 yard season in my opinion shows that the Cowboys' firepower on offense is a lot more a credit to Romo's abilities than it is to receivers like Austin and TO. It pains me to say that.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I don't know how you're losing a step when you have 1000, 1300, and 1100 seasons.

http://i49.tinypic.com/mhfrz8.jpg

[chiefzilla1501]

exactly.

He's not nearly as good as you give him credit for being. He lights up the yardage numbers, but I'd take regular season Romo over Palmer every day of the week.

[chiefzilla1501]

http://i49.tinypic.com/mhfrz8.jpg

I actually like TO. Actually liked him better than Moss back in the day.

But you can't judge a player only by his numbers. He's still a good receiver, but he's not the same guy he was before Dallas. Age is catching up to him. If he was nearly as good as people on this board are saying he is, attitude problem or not, there is no way in hell he would have struggled to find work the way he has over the past few months. There are dozens of teams who would love to get 1-2 years of outstanding production from a receiver to put them over the top.

[MMXcalibur]

Shouldn't it be "Bengals pick T.O" instead of the other way around...?

[Jim Jones]

I wouldn't really say he's done, in Buffalo last season, he had 20% of their catches, 25% of their yards, and 30% of their TD's in the passing game. In his best season in Dallas he had 25% of the catches, 25% of the yards, and 35% of the TD's....in his best in Philly, 30%, 30%, and 35%...so his year in Buffalo he was as much a #1 WR as he was on much better teams...Buffalo just blows at passing

His yards per catch were right on par with every other season of his career, and he still had big games against Jacksonville and Miami mid-season. Moreover, he finished the season stronger than he started (600yds in games 9-16 against 300ish in 1-8)

I hate the guy, but he's not done.

Well, "done" may have been too strong of a word, I think he can still be somewhat productive, but I can't really see him doing any better than 600-800 yards this season. OK for a 2-3 receiver, but nothing more.

As someone else mentioned, stats can be deceiving. You can say Buffalo just blows at passing, but the fact is that T.O. doesn't get open as well as he used to. He's lost a lot of speed, burst and athleticism. It used to not matter who he had at quarterback or who he had around him, because he was generally able to make anyone look good.

Nobody escapes father time, and now at 37 with his athleticism diminishing, it's obvious he can't be that player anymore. Defenses don't gameplan to stop him and he rarely, if ever, gets double teamed anymore.

[Brock]

It used to not matter who he had at quarterback or who he had around him, because he was generally able to make anyone look good.

Yeah, it didn't matter if it was Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, or Tony Romo. He made them all look good.

[Hammock Parties]

TO hasn't lost much if you ask me.

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[Jim Jones]

Yeah, it didn't matter if it was Steve Young, Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, or Tony Romo. He made them all look good.

Jeff Garcia and Donovan McNabb have never been able to duplicate the success they had without T.O. and Tony Romo definitely wouldn't have had the early success he had without T.O.

THAT Terrell Owens ain't around anymore and at his age, he ain't coming back.

[Jim Jones]

TO hasn't lost much if you ask me.

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Two plays does not a season make.

[JD10367]

Before he played with Buffalo last season, T.O. was the last guy I wanted to see wearing my team's colors.

After he played for Buffalo, and pretty much kept his mouth shut and toed the line, I changed my tune. It's possible he's finally grown up and "gotten it". And, if it's a low-risk and high-reward contract, I saw no reason not to sign him.

Say what you want about T.O., whether he's still a #1 WR or over-the-hill, but the simple fact is that lining up next to Ochocinco will make the Bengals incredibly dangerous. I would've been more than happy if the Pats had signed T.O. to line up opposite Moss. And Chiefs fans who really gave it some thought probably would've been more than happy if the Chiefs had signed T.O. to line up opposite Bowe. Again, assuming a low-risk high-reward contract... why not?

[JD10367]

Jeff Garcia and Donovan McNabb have never been able to duplicate the success they had without T.O. and Tony Romo definitely wouldn't have had the early success he had without T.O.

THAT Terrell Owens ain't around anymore and at his age, he ain't coming back.

And when you're talking about guys with the talent level of a T.O. or a Moss, half of one of those guys--even gray-bearded--might still be better than a full, young schmuck who probably shouldn't be seeing the field.

Not to mention it's one thing to sign a guy like this as your main target; it's another thing altogether to sign him as a #2 or #3 WR.

[Jim Jones]

And when you're talking about guys with the talent level of a T.O. or a Moss, half of one of those guys--even gray-bearded--might still be better than a full, young schmuck who probably shouldn't be seeing the field.

Not to mention it's one thing to sign a guy like this as your main target; it's another thing altogether to sign him as a #2 or #3 WR.

I don't know if the production he's going to give you makes up for the spot he's taking from a young guy who could contribute on your team. Who knows, maybe the young guy isn't worth it, but maybe he turns out to be another Miles Austin or something?

He should still be able to produce as a 2 or 3, but at this point you're paying for a name, not production. At 36 he can't outrun father time and let's be honest, not everyone gradually declines. Some guys just fall off a cliff one day. We already saw him slowing down the last two years and it's not going to get any prettier this year.

[Hammock Parties]

Two plays does not a season make.

Who cares?

The dude can still make plays. He's lost something, but not much. He still has speed.

[chiefzilla1501]

Before he played with Buffalo last season, T.O. was the last guy I wanted to see wearing my team's colors.

After he played for Buffalo, and pretty much kept his mouth shut and toed the line, I changed my tune. It's possible he's finally grown up and "gotten it". And, if it's a low-risk and high-reward contract, I saw no reason not to sign him.

Say what you want about T.O., whether he's still a #1 WR or over-the-hill, but the simple fact is that lining up next to Ochocinco will make the Bengals incredibly dangerous. I would've been more than happy if the Pats had signed T.O. to line up opposite Moss. And Chiefs fans who really gave it some thought probably would've been more than happy if the Chiefs had signed T.O. to line up opposite Bowe. Again, assuming a low-risk high-reward contract... why not?

It could be. Or it could be a headache for Palmer and Marvin Lewis to figure out how to make both players happy, given that they have both publicly bitched and pouted when they don't get the ball.

I think it's a bad signing not because of who TO is, but because of the team he's going to. A team that lacks leaders. If TO went somewhere like Minnesota or the Giants or Falcons, okay. I think it's an obnoxious fit for the Bengals.

[Jim Jones]

Who cares?

The dude can still make plays. He's lost something, but not much. He still has speed.

I didn't even think he looked that fast on the 98 yard TD. Just looked like he made a good move on the DB, combined with bad Jags defense. He's lost a lot of his speed and athleticism.

Hell, I remember LJ torching the Broncos for 198 yards and two TD's in week 4 two years ago. He's only had two 100 yard games since then. It took 11 weeks for the next one, and 12 weeks after that one for his last 100 yard game. So while every now and then he can tap into the fountain of youth, he can't consistently make plays for you anymore. T.O. falls in that same class.

[Mosbonian]

Great...now I have to put up with OchoCinco and T.O. here in Georgetown during training camp.

mmaddog
********

[Reerun_KC]

Should add some quality entertainment to the football season....

Cincy are the new Raiders....

[Hammock Parties]

I didn't even think he looked that fast on the 98 yard TD. Just looked like he made a good move on the DB, combined with bad Jags defense. He's lost a lot of his speed and athleticism.


Look, if he can beat a guy deep like that, and he can get up the sideline on half a defense like he did in the second clip, you can't really sit here and call him a slow guy or a dude who just isn't what he used to be.

He's not 2005 TO, obviously. But he's still pretty damn good. His YPC remains high. Lee Evans had a shitty year last year in Buffalo, too.

[Jim Jones]

Look, if he can beat a guy deep like that, and he can get up the sideline on half a defense like he did in the second clip, you can't really sit here and call him a slow guy or a dude who just isn't what he used to be.

He's not 2005 TO, obviously. But he's still pretty damn good. His YPC remains high. Lee Evans had a shitty year last year in Buffalo, too.

There's no doubt he still has some speed, but there's also no doubt that it's declining pretty rapidly. While he can still bust out the occasional play like that, he's not at the stage of his career athletically where he can do that on a consistent basis anymore and as I've been saying, with him turning 37 I don't expect that to change.

[chiefzilla1501]

Look, if he can beat a guy deep like that, and he can get up the sideline on half a defense like he did in the second clip, you can't really sit here and call him a slow guy or a dude who just isn't what he used to be.

He's not 2005 TO, obviously. But he's still pretty damn good. His YPC remains high. Lee Evans had a shitty year last year in Buffalo, too.

Yeah, bad situation in Buffalo. But it still begs the question: why did nobody want T.O. and why did he settle for a one-year contract for practically no money? There are lots of teams that could use him. And if he was still a playmaker, at least one team would have been willing to give him an enormous one-year deal.

[Hammock Parties]

Yeah, bad situation in Buffalo. But it still begs the question: why did nobody want T.O. and why did he settle for a one-year contract for practically no money? There are lots of teams that could use him. And if he was still a playmaker, at least one team would have been willing to give him an enormous one-year deal.

He's 37...and he's TO....

The way I look at this, the Bengals are going to be serious contenders now.

[Param]

Carson's the best QB he's had since playing w/ McNabb. Owens will be fine next season.

I'll take Romo over Palmer today.

[kcxiv]

whats really funny is that people rag on the Bengals here, but they have been more successful then us the past 40 years. lol

They arent a top tier organization, then again, either are the Chiefs

[chiefzilla1501]

He's 37...and he's TO....

The way I look at this, the Bengals are going to be serious contenders now.

Maybe. They still can't run the ball if Benson misses significant time, their D might be a little overhyped based on last year's schedule, and there's going to be a ton of pressure on an average offensive line to pass protect for the most immobile QB in the NFL.

They're going to be contenders. I don't think stacking that team with receivers makes them "serious" contenders.

[Hammock Parties]

Well the deal was last year they couldn't throw the ball like they used to. I think their D is legit and adding Carlos Dunlap could be something special. Adding Gresham (1st rd TE), Owens and Bryant is going to make a big difference.

[Mecca]

It's a solid move, the Bengals realized quickly with the loss of Houshmanzadeh and Henry's death they need more than just Ochocinco to move the ball in the pass game.

Drafting Gresham their FA moves show they realized their passing game needed weapons. I also don't see how there's going to be a fight with TO and Chad, Chad spent the majority of his career playing with a WR who got as many looks as he did while TO seems to understand what his role is these days.

[Ebolapox]

The Bengals process is apparently more efficient than Pioli's process.

it helps when you have carson palmer in your hip pocket.

[Ebolapox]

Heh. He couldn't take a hit though.

you're classy as fuck lately.

:spock:

[boogblaster]

TO might help this team .. 5 TDs 700 RYs last year.. not real good ....

[Mecca]

TO might help this team .. 5 TDs 700 RYs last year.. not real good ....

You do realize Buffalo possibly had the worst QB play in the entire league right?

[chiefzilla1501]

Well the deal was last year they couldn't throw the ball like they used to. I think their D is legit and adding Carlos Dunlap could be something special. Adding Gresham (1st rd TE), Owens and Bryant is going to make a big difference.

If Benson misses significant time, and I can't see why he wouldn't, then the Bengals are going to be outrageously bad on the ground. They have a below average offensive line and an immobile QB. They may have some very good talent at receiver, but there are going to be games where Carson Palmer gets flat out annihilated because he can't get into his drop. And without a clock-eating running game, that could eat into their defense.

Palmer isn't Brady or Brees--they once tried to run a no huddle offense through Palmer. Palmer isn't smart enough to do that and recognize the blitz. And Palmer isn't Romo that can escape pressure if the rush interrupts his drop. People act like adding TO makes the Bengals a serious contender. They're going to be good, but they're not nearly as good as people think.

[Mecca]

Considering how laughably awful Benson was before he went there can we really say their line is below average?

Also some of that will depend on what they get out of Andre Smith.

[Hammock Parties]

Their line isn't that bad, LJ got 4.4 YPC last year.

[chiefzilla1501]

Considering how laughably awful Benson was before he went there can we really say their line is below average?

Also some of that will depend on what they get out of Andre Smith.

Sorry. Meant to say, they are a below average pass protecting line. They're a good run blocking line, but they don't have any talent behind Benson. LJ also looked laughably bad behind Cincy's o-line.

[Mecca]

I still maintain that RB is such a dime a dozen position they might get production from a no name like Bernard Scott.

[Hammock Parties]

LJ also looked laughably bad behind Cincy's o-line.

He had 100 yards the only game he got over 10 carries...

[chiefzilla1501]

I still maintain that RB is such a dime a dozen position they might get production from a no name like Bernard Scott.

Getting production is one thing.

The Bengals that win establish themselves with the running game. It sets up their defense. And Carson Palmer hasn't proven that he can be a consistently good QB unless the protection is immaculate. When his protection was great years ago, he was terrific. Since then, he's been more like Cutler--an explosive QB who makes way too many mistakes and really struggles with the turnover when the heat gets put on him.

I don't think there's any guarantee they make that adjustment. Without Benson, they'll need to become a passing team. We'll see what that means for Palmer's protection, which he needs, and their defense which played at their best when they weren't asked to defend shootouts.

[chiefzilla1501]

He had 100 yards the only game he got over 10 carries...

Against Cleveland. That's like beating a midget in basketball.

[Hammock Parties]

Carson Palmer has one year of more than 13 interceptions since his first season, and suddenly he's Jay Cutler?

[Mr. Laz]

Deal is 1 yr/2 million

[FRCDFED]

Looking at his stats.....only his number of catches were down. If he would have the number of catches from the previous season then he would've had another 1000 yard season. What do all the naysayers have to support the notion that he has "lost a step?" His ypc average is right in line with some of his best years. Sometimes people just talk shit just to talk shit.....TO hasn't lost anything!


2009 Buffalo Bills 16 55 829 15.1 51.8 98T 5 9 5 33 1

2008 Dallas Cowboys 16 69 1,052 15.2 65.8 75T 10 15 6 38 1

2007 Dallas Cowboys 15 81 1,355 16.7 90.3 52T 15 22 6 69 0

2006 Dallas Cowboys 16 85 1,180 13.9 73.8 56T 13 18 4 62 0

2005 Philadelphia Eagles 7 47 763 16.2 109.0 91T 6 10 4 32 0

2004 Philadelphia Eagles 14 77 1,200 15.6 85.7 59T 14 20 9 51 2

2003 San Francisco 49ers 15 80 1,102 13.8 73.5 75T 9 15 4 55 0

2002 San Francisco 49ers 14 100 1,300 13.0 92.9 76T 13 17 5 61 0

2001 San Francisco 49ers 16 93 1,412 15.2 88.2 60T 16 21 6 70 0

2000 San Francisco 49ers 14 97 1,451 15.0 103.6 69T 13 23 5 65 2

1999 San Francisco 49ers 14 60 754 12.6 53.9 36 4 12 0 36 1

1998 San Francisco 49ers 16 67 1,097 16.4 68.6 79T 14 17 4 52 1

1997 San Francisco 49ers 16 60 936 15.6 58.5 56T 8 16 1 48 1

1996 San Francisco 49ers 16 35 520 14.9 32.5 46T 4 7 2 23 1

TOTAL 205 1,006 14,951 14.9 72.9 98 144 222 61 695 10

[chiefzilla1501]

Carson Palmer has one year of more than 13 interceptions since his first season, and suddenly he's Jay Cutler?

He's only paid 5 "full" seasons. In those seasons, he's thrown 18, 13, 12, 20, 13 INTs. Last year, his 13 INTs came in a year when he only threw for 3,100 yards and average 6.6 Yards per pass.

When Carson had Willie Anderson and Levi Jones and Eric Steinbach, he was a complete stud. That was an all-pro offensive line. The past few seasons, he's been erratic and the Bengals were at their best when they dialed down the passing game last season and moved to a running team. It put less pressure on Carson Palmer (his least productive season by a mile) and it made their defense better.

Palmer is Trent Green but with a stronger arm. If you don't give him immaculate protection, you're going to get an erratic QB.

[Hammock Parties]

Levi Jones was his left tackle when he tossed 20 picks, and he threw 28 TD/13 INT the year before with Andrew Whitworth starting most of the games....maybe you just don't know what you're talking about.

[-King-]

The fact that he had 800 yards with Edwards and Ryan fucking Fitzpatrick should shut you guys up. And yet....


Only WR I can think of with more TDs the last 4 years is Randy Moss.

[Mecca]

Owens is still productive because his game was never speed and he keeps himself in awesome shape, simple as that.

[chiefzilla1501]

Levi Jones was his left tackle when he tossed 20 picks, and he threw 28 TD/13 INT the year before with Andrew Whitworth starting most of the games....maybe you just don't know what you're talking about.

First of all, Levi Jones was a stud early in his career. He had several knee and foot injuries and hasn't been the same toward the back end of his career. Ask any fan of the AFC North--he's become a major liability. Secondly, in 2006, the Bengals had Willie Anderson (a pro bowl RT) and Eric Steinbach (a pro bowl Guard). Not surprisingly, Carson Palmer had one of the best seasons of his career.

Not coincidentally, Steinbach was shipped to Cleveland. Willie Anderson missed all of 2007 and never returned to the Bengals. The offensive line has never been the same and neither has Carson. They moved to a run-first offense in 2009 mostly out of necessity. Because palmer gets careless with the ball and because he can't escape pressure to save his life, he's a huge injury risk if you force him to throw the ball too much.

Trust me. I watch a lot of the AFC North. Carson Palmer is not nearly as good as people on this board seem to think he is. He's Trent Green with a stronger arm.

[Mecca]

Like I said some of that debate hinges on how good Andre Smith becomes.

[Hammock Parties]

Carson Palmer is not nearly as good as people on this board seem to think he is. He's Trent Green with a stronger arm.

Well shit, that's really pretty good.

So let me get this straight...chiefzilla thinks Cedric Benson, who has had exactly one good season, is the engine that makes the Bengals' offense go...but Carson Palmer is a big problem and he's going to be helpless without Benson. And there's no WAY Palmer can improve his production by throwing to Terrell Owens and Antonio Bryant instead of Andre Caldwell and Laverneaus Coles.

[Deberg_1990]

Owens is still productive because his game was never speed and he keeps himself in awesome shape, simple as that.


This...

Ill never understand the hate for him? Is he a first class d-bag? Yes

Does he always get the job done on the field? Yes

thats all that matters.....Its not like any of us are going to hang out with the guy and have beers after the game.

[chiefzilla1501]

Like I said some of that debate hinges on how good Andre Smith becomes.

It hinges somewhat. Again, I think of Trent Green. Green needed a pocket. So does Carson Palmer. He's not a good enough QB to spot blitzes or to audible out when he sees something, the way Brady and Brees do. The Bengals experimented with him calling plays for a while and it was an utter disaster.

Palmer needs immaculate protection, like he used to get behind Jones, Anderson, Steinbach. The Bengals can't afford to become a pass-heavy offense. Carson is a huge injury risk. The offensive line is actually pretty good at run blocking. But they're average at pass protection--although, I might also argue that because Palmer is a statue and has to drop back to pass, he might be largely responsible for that.

[chiefzilla1501]

This...

Ill never understand the hate for him? Is he a first class d-bag? Yes

Does he always get the job done on the field? Yes

thats all that matters.....Its not like any of us are going to hang out with the guy and have beers after the game.

I don't hate him. Back in the heyday, I would have rather had him than Moss--I know that makes me crazy, but I want the guy who can run every route, will block for you, and who doesn't care if he gets clocked when he catches the ball.

I think he'd be a good #2 receiver for a team looking to make a last ditch run. But not for a team like Cincy which has a ton of explosive attitudes and are one distraction away from becoming a fringe playoff team to becoming one that just misses the bubble.

[Hammock Parties]

Eric Steinbach is so good he was rated as the 2nd worst guard in the league...hahahaha.

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=G&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

[Mecca]

It's funny to see Palmer be described as immobile when I remember him at SC moving around all the time, guess age does that.

[chiefzilla1501]

Eric Steinbach is so good he was rated as the 2nd worst guard in the league...hahahaha.

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=G&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2009/5/5/865844/is-eric-steinbach-going-somewhere
#1 - that's a good site, but the way people treat it like the law gets a little ridiculous sometimes.
#2 - Read the above article and you'll find most articles say the same. Steinbach isn't a Mangini linemen. He's way too undersized for the power blocking offense Mangini prefers.

You're reaching, gochiefs. He was a terrific Guard with the Bengals and you'd be hardpressed to find any source that says otherwise.

[chiefzilla1501]

It's funny to see Palmer be described as immobile when I remember him at SC moving around all the time, guess age does that.

Age does that. But major knee surgery will do that to you too. Palmer is an absolute statue back there and that's not just because he's too slow, it's also because he doesn't have very good pocket awareness.

Again, he plays the game a lot like Trent Green. You give him immaculate protection, he'll carve you up. You get some pressure on him and he becomes clumsy.

[Hammock Parties]

Hinging your argument on a guard is tenuous at best, anyway.

Palmer threw 28 TD with a backup LT...

[chiefzilla1501]

Hinging your argument on a guard is tenuous at best, anyway.

Palmer threw 28 TD with a backup LT...

A backup LT who's currently the starter. Throw in a pro bowl guard in Steinbach and Willie Anderson who, at the time, was one of the best Right Tackles in the game. The Bengals had a really, really good offensive line pre 2007.

[chiefzilla1501]

Hinging your argument on a guard is tenuous at best, anyway.

Palmer threw 28 TD with a backup LT...

By the way, you keep talking about Palmer's ridiculous 2006 season.

28 TDs and 13 INTs. But he also had 15 fumbles and 7 lost fumbles. Which is extremely high.

[Hammock Parties]

That's because his offensive line sucked. He was sacked 36 fucking times.

So maybe you should give him some credit instead of propping up Cedric fucking Benson.

[Demonpenz]

I would like videos of owens blocking, he can block the shit out of people..../herm

[chiefzilla1501]

That's because his offensive line sucked. He was sacked 36 ****ing times.

So maybe you should give him some credit instead of propping up Cedric ****ing Benson.

So what side of the fence are you on? His offensive line didn't suck in 2006. Just as we've learned that Matt Cassel causes sacks because of his pocket presence, isn't it possible that Palmer's guilty of the same problem?

Look, here's the deal. He had an all-world offensive line early in his career. A pro bowler in Willie Anderson and Eric Steinbach. A terrific center in Rich Braham and before injuries, a stud left tackle in Levi Jones. Since those guys left and since his leg injury when he had his leg rolled up on, he's become an absolute statue. In 2007, he threw 20 picks and led the Bengals to a 7-9 season. In 2008, he was sacked 11 times in 4 games because he couldn't get rid of the ball fast enough. In 2009, the Bengals moved to a run-first offense, he average almost a yard less per pass and threw for about 1,000 less yards, and he stayed injury free and threw less INTs.

I don't think this is a hard case to build. He makes a lot of mistakes when he doesn't have the all-world offensive line he had early in his career and the Bengals got progressively worse. Magically, they righted the ship in 2009 when Palmer had his worst statistical season of his career. Coincidence?

Palmer is NOT that good.

[Chieftain58]

He will probably be okay with this team

[Hammock Parties]

Magically, they righted the ship in 2009 when Palmer had his worst statistical season of his career. Coincidence?


are you really this blind? They made a giant leap forward on defense.

[Mile High Mania]

TO is a media whore that creates issues when the team is doing poorly... other than that, he plays very hard. It's a 1 year deal, he behaved well in BUF last season... just as he's done every place in the first year.

Ocho, TO, Antonio Bryant, Caldwell, Shipley... lots of nice options. TO is a good fit for them and you know they'll be entertaining.

[Rausch]

It's funny to see Palmer be described as immobile when I remember him at SC moving around all the time, guess age does that.

The Steelers' defense probably has something to do with that as well...

[Chief3188]

Good god. Team Alcatraz strikes again. Mike Brown aka Father Flanagan just searches for the crappiest of attitudes and signs them up. They already draft without regard for character ala the all DUI backfield starring Jonathan Joseph and Leon Hall, then of course you have Ray Mauluga already up to his old tricks, Chris Henry who would still be up to no good had he lived whom they drafted, cut and signed again, Ocho Cinco aka eight five aka Ocho Moutho. Now to the FA class from hell starring our very own LJ who I know is gone but just a good reference for starters, Pacman aka the only guy as bad as Henry that has graced the league in years, Matt Jones aka want some coke?, Tank Johnson, Cedric Benson, TO, Antonio Bryant.

I went to high school and college in Cincinnati and live with 2 Bengals fans in New Orleans right now so I see alot of their games. Palmer has never been the same since his knee injury in the playoff game against the Steelers. He is extremely gunshy and very prone to stupid mistakes when the game is on the line.

Mike Brown is the cheapest pos alive. He wouldn't even trade Ocho Moutho for 2 1st round picks to Washington because they did not want to eat his contract nor pay two first rounder. He calls himself the redeemer but he gets these pieces of shit because they come cheap.

I have no respect for them or that probation class they call a team

[Chief3188]

whats really funny is that people rag on the Bengals here, but they have been more successful then us the past 40 years. lol

They arent a top tier organization, then again, either are the Chiefs

How so exactly? Losing 2 SB's and having a longer playoff win drought? They got embarassed in one SB and lost a nail biter in another.

[stormtrooper]

Why would you keep piling shit that high? Sounds like the redskins. I bet they pick up Albert H next year. All those flashy names are sure to win something, huh Snyder?

[The Franchise]

My friend who is a Bengals fan....just posted this on Facebook.

The Bengals will be 2010 Super Bowl Champs....Carson Palmer, Cedric Benson, Chad Ochocinco, Terrell Owens and a solid defense = Super Bowl Champs! Anything else is unexceptable!!!!

[chiefzilla1501]

are you really this blind? They made a giant leap forward on defense.

And you don't think their defensive progress had ANYTHING to do with the fact that Palmer was asked to throw the ball a lot less?

The Bengals moved from an aerial offense to a running team. And that led to Palmer making less mistakes and the defense playing a lot better. Coincidence?

Not to mention the fact that they had one of the easiest schedules in the NFL last year.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I'm not sure how I feel about this.

[luv]

TO and OchoCinco on the same team? Ugh. Not even thinking of football. The personalities alone.....

TO was fairly quiet with the Bills though. Humbled? He getting old, but I think he's good as a second string.

[Param]

I find the league more intersting with TO than without. Same goes for Favre and I expect him back with the Vikings soon.

[notorious]

TO is a one year guy. Get him, make a run, and punt his ass ASAP before things get ugly.

[Hammock Parties]

And you don't think their defensive progress had ANYTHING to do with the fact that Palmer was asked to throw the ball a lot less?


No, I think it had everything to do with the fact they are loaded with defensive talent.

[chiefzilla1501]

No, I think it had everything to do with the fact they are loaded with defensive talent.

Loaded with defensive talent? What player on that defense would you call elite?
They have two very good corners in Hall and Joseph. They have two very good LBs in Rivers and Maualuga. Apart from that, they have a good not great defensive line and average Safeties.

Before 2009, the Bengals never cracked the top 15 in defense. Maualuga's a decent player, but he's not that good that the defense jumped over 10 spots. They're a good defense. But again, you really, honestly think that the Bengals' defensive surge in 2009 had nothing to do with having a really easy schedule or the fact that Carson Palmer threw for 1,000 less yards? That's naivete, especially when you look at the talent on their defensive roster. It's good, not great.

[Param]

No, I think it had everything to do with the fact they are loaded with defensive talent.

They're not loaded with defensive talent.

[Hammock Parties]

The fact you just ignore players like Antawn Odom, Tank Johnson and Domata Peko, not to mention Keith Rivers, Dhani Jones, Gibril Wilson, Roy Williams and Pacman freaking Jones says a lot.

They were a top 5 defense for a good reason, and they'll be even better this season.

[-King-]

They're not loaded with defensive talent.

Leon Hall
Jonathan Joseph
Tank Tyler
Rivers
Rey Maululllu9ugauaga
Dhani Jones
Full season of Antwan Odom

They have a good amount of talent.

[Mecca]

Keith Rivers is really fucking good, is that lost on some people here? Leon Hall has developed into a really really outstanding CB.

Also I don't see why Chad or TO would get lumped with those other guys, yes they like to talk, they say humorous things, but they aren't criminals.

[Param]

Leon Hall
Jonathan Joseph
Tank Tyler
Rivers
Rey Maululllu9ugauaga
Dhani Jones
Full season of Antwan Odom

They have a good amount of talent.

I just don't think of them as some hellacious D. So, in my opinion, they're not loaded with talent.

[chiefzilla1501]

The fact you just ignore players like Antawn Odom, Tank Johnson and Domata Peko, not to mention Keith Rivers, Dhani Jones, Gibril Wilson, Roy Williams and Pacman freaking Jones says a lot.

They were a top 5 defense for a good reason, and they'll be even better this season.

Are you listening to yourself? You're acting like we're talking about Troy Polamalu, James Harrison, Lamar Woodley, etc.... They have good defensive players. But they don't have a lot of great ones. Rivers and Joseph are great. Hall, Tank, and Odom (if and a very BIG if he can stay healthy are very good).
The others? Really? Pacman--not that good anymore, character or not. Roy Williams? Was always overrated and slow, and now he's hitting the wrong side of 30. Peka is good, but he's not a guy you do cartwheels over. And Wilson's been so outstanding that this will be his 4th team in 4 years.


They are a well-coached defense. But their defense has a few playmakers and a lot of above average but not great players. You're making a lot of players look a lot better than they actually are.

[chiefzilla1501]

Leon Hall
Jonathan Joseph
Tank Tyler
Rivers
Rey Maululllu9ugauaga
Dhani Jones
Full season of Antwan Odom

They have a good amount of talent.

A good amount of talent.

Not a ton you'd do cartwheels over. They have adequate but not great pass rushers. They are weak in Centerfield. It's a recipe for a solid defense. Not close to the powerhouse defense some are touting it to be.

[Hammock Parties]

Are you listening to yourself? You're acting like we're talking about Troy Polamalu, James Harrison, Lamar Woodley, etc....

No, I'm not.

You, however, talk about Cedric Benson as if he's Adrian Peterson.

[Chief3188]

Keith Rivers is really ****ing good, is that lost on some people here? Leon Hall has developed into a really really outstanding CB.

Also I don't see why Chad or TO would get lumped with those other guys, yes they like to talk, they say humorous things, but they aren't criminals.

I agree with you on Leon Hall. He had a crappy first season getting burned like Mccleon and Warfield used too but he stepped it up last season. As for Rivers he has not shown to be really fucking good yet. He got his jaw broke by Hines Ward his rookie season before he could do anything significant and he had a pretty average season last year so I don't know where you are getting that from.

As for Ocho don't be fooled by his gold smile and clean record. He took a swing at an assistant coach in 05 during halftime of their playoff game in which they were up a couple of TD's because ole diva boy wasn't getting the ball enough and it lead to an arguement.

As for TO do you think any of his previous employers looked at each other after he left and said wow that really worked out well?

[chiefzilla1501]

No, I'm not.

You, however, talk about Cedric Benson as if he's Adrian Peterson.

When did I ever say benson is an elite back? I'm pointing out the obvious--on the bengals' roster at) there's benson and then there's dog shit.

Benson is a good rb. Much better and focused than when he was with chicago. No, he's not AP. But he's good enough that when you replkace him with a nobody, you'll notice the difference. The bengals will not be nearly as effective running the ball w/out benson.

[Hammock Parties]

209 yards today. Stud's still got it.

[chiefzilla1501]

209 yards today. Stud's still got it.

Yes, but...
a) they lost
b) Once again proves that the team goes as Benson goes
c) again calls into question whether their defense is a product of their running game. No excuse to give up 23 points to the Browns if the defense is supposedly this good.

So while I'll concede that TO is better than I predicted in this thread, it still doesn't take away that I was right on almost every other point. Especially how overrated this defense is.

[Hammock Parties]

Benson sucks ass this year.

Blaming the loss on TO is idiotic.

[chiefzilla1501]

Benson sucks ass this year.

Blaming the loss on TO is idiotic.

I never blamed the loss on TO. So I agree, that's idiotic. However, do I still disagree with the TO signing? You're goddamn right I do.

In the Bengals' two losses:
-the Bengals ran 2/3 (66%) pass plays
-They were at about 3 minutes or less difference in Time of Possession
-Carson Palmer threw for over 300 yards

In the Bengals' two wins:
-The Bengals ran about 50% pass plays (53% against Baltimore, 50% against Carolina)
-Carson Palmer threw for under 200 yards
-They won the Time of Possession game by over 5 minutes

Moral of the story? The Bengals are at their best when they run the ball. Even if they don't run the ball that effectively, they need to control the clock and keep the defense off the field. That's how they won last year. That's how they're winning this year.

Bringing in TO and opening up the offense was incredibly stupid. If I'm Marvin Lewis, from this point forward, my top priority is establishing the run and winning the TOP game. But good luck convincing Ochocinco and TO that they should get less touches.

[Saul Good]

They should just cut all of their WRs. It's too tempting to throw the ball when you have talented receivers.

[Smed1065]

TO need more touches......

[chiefzilla1501]

Bump.

Hate to do the "I told you so" thing, but this is a thread I pretty much got gang-tackled in.

[-King-]

Bump.

Hate to do the "I told you so" thing, but this is a thread I pretty much got gang-tackled in.
983 yards and 9 touchdowns in 13 games. Clearly you were right...
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