****MOTHERFUCK YOU, JOHN MOZELIAK!!!****

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Trading Ryan Ludwick for Jake Westbrook (who is owed 15+ million through 2011)

http://i43.tinypic.com/2lbcbap.jpg

[Ebolapox]

ROFL

[RJ]

Jon Jay is the answer.

What was the question?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Jon Jay is the answer.

What was the question?

The question is "what isn't a suitable reason to trade Ryan Ludwick for a blah pitcher?"

['Hamas' Jenkins]

“Great deal for SD. Kluber is a fringe No. 5 SP, Greenwood a non-prospect.”

[RJ]

I'm not understanding this trade. The Padres get Ludwick for a couple of kinda sorta prospects? Are they kicking in some cash to the Cardinals?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I'm not understanding this trade. The Padres get Ludwick for a couple of kinda sorta prospects? Are they kicking in some cash to the Cardinals?

It surpasses the definition of a horrible trade.

Not only do you make your own team worse for this year, but you get less value for a commodity than you should have, and in the process you make a rival team in your league much, much stronger.

There is no long term benefit to this trade via prospects, and no cash savings, either.

It's a flat out fucking panic trade by a stupid fucking cocksucker who has absolutely no idea what he's doing and should not be in his current position.

DeWitt should have fired Luhnow during the power struggle in '07 and kept Jocketty.

This is a Mongolian Clusterfuck.

[Buck]

From everything I heard, the Padres just raped the 'juns and got a solid player out of it. 2 questions. How many years left on Ludwick's contract? Also, I know he had an all star year in 2008 but declined since then. Any way he makes it back to all star form?
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['Hamas' Jenkins]

From everything I heard, the Padres just raped the 'juns and got a solid player out of it. 2 questions. How many years left on Ludwick's contract? Also, I know he had an all star year in 2008 but declined since then. Any way he makes it back to all star form?
Posted via Mobile Device

He's not going to hit 37 homers again, but he'll be able to hit 25 consistently, and give you Gold Glove defense.

He's arb eligible after this year, and will be due a huge pay increase. In all likeliehood, you aren't getting him for more than a year, but even then, he'll qualify as a Type A Free Agent, and you'll get a first rounder and a sandwich pick out of him.

So look at it this way:

At the very worst, you traded one possible #5 starter and a guy who will never EVER make it past AA for 1 year and two months of Ryan Ludwick, his salary, and two top 50 draft picks.

You can't win a trade more than you just won one.

[DeezNutz]

Sorry about the bad luck, Cards fans. We happen to have a youngish GM who might be of interest to you.

Love,
Royals Fans.

[SnakeXJones]

Well look at this way you have Dave F'N Duncan to help him out

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I don't give a damn if you have Duncan to help him out. The guy is worth next to nothing. Ludwick is a top 5 RF. It's such an astoundingly awful trade I can't even get my head around it.

[SnakeXJones]

I don't give a damn if you have Duncan to help him out. The guy is worth next to nothing. Ludwick is a top 5 RF. It's such an astoundingly awful trade I can't even get my head around it. When did u hire allard baird as ur gm?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

When did u hire allard baird as ur gm?

After Jocketty was fired at the end of the 2007 season.

[LiL stumppy]

It's not a horrible trade.. Ludwick was due arbritation at the end of the year, and was gonna cost them around 8 million next year.. Jon Jay has been a beast,and is young and CHEAP, which will help get Albert signed. And the Indians sent the Cards cash as well.

Westbrook is WAY better than Suppan or Hawksworth, so we made our rotation a little better, saved 8 million, and it gives us more room to sign Albert..

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It's not a horrible trade.. Ludwick was due arbritation at the end of the year, and was gonna cost them around 8 million next year.. Jon Jay has been a beast,and is young and CHEAP, which will help get Albert signed. And the Indians sent the Cards cash as well.

Westbrook is WAY better than Suppan or Hawksworth, so we made our rotation a little better, saved 8 million, and it gives us more room to sign Albert..

1) Jon Jay has a career Sub-800 OPS in the minor leagues. His play so far has been an aberration. He'll never be an every day starter for this team. He's much better suited as a 4th OF.

2) If you are looking for someone as a Ludwick replacement, look at Craig

3) We are downgrading our outfield defense

4) Although we can offer Ludwick arb next year, you'd have to be a fool to think that he couldn't command more than Jake Westbrook on the open market. In essence, we save no money.

5) The Indians only sent us cash to offset the INCREASE in salary that Westbrook gets relative to Ludwick.

6) Let's say that we retain Westbrook next year. Then, not only would we pay more than Ludwick, we'd be paying $3 million more (11 vs. 8....assuming we wouldn't trade Luddy) for a 1 WAR pitcher.

By no measure does this make the team better unless you assume that Jon Jay continues to hit at a clip that he's never been able to hit at even in the major leagues. That's not a knock on Jay, either.

[LiL stumppy]

1) Jon Jay has a career Sub-800 OPS in the minor leagues. His play so far has been an aberration. He'll never be an every day starter for this team. He's much better suited as a 4th OF.

2) If you are looking for someone as a Ludwick replacement, look at Craig

3) We are downgrading our outfield defense

4) Although we can offer Ludwick arb next year, you'd have to be a fool to think that he couldn't command more than Jake Westbrook on the open market. In essence, we save no money.

5) The Indians only sent us cash to offset the INCREASE in salary that Westbrook gets relative to Ludwick.

6) Let's say that we retain Westbrook next year. Then, not only would we pay more than Ludwick, we'd be paying $3 million more (11 vs. 8....assuming we wouldn't trade Luddy) for a 1 WAR pitcher.

By no measure does this make the team better unless you assume that Jon Jay continues to hit at a clip that he's never been able to hit at even in the major leagues. That's not a knock on Jay, either.

This board is filled with so many people that can see the future it's unbelievable. No one knows if John Jay will be an everday starter, so you can't say he never will be.. He's been lights out, they save money, they rotation gets better..

I am not saying player for player it's a good trade, but it's not as horrible as your making it out to be..

['Hamas' Jenkins]

This board is filled with so many people that can see the future it's unbelievable. No one knows if John Jay will be an everday starter, so you can't say he never will be.. He's been lights out, they save money, they rotation gets better..

I am not saying player for player it's a good trade, but it's not as horrible as your making it out to be..

I'm sorry that using past results in the minor leagues that indicate that he doesn't have the power or speed to stick in the OF somehow comes off to your dumb Okie ass as being clairvoyant.

Don't worry, though. I'm sure he'll keep his .446 BABIP up.

[Dave Lane]

Anything that makes the cards a worse team is a big win in my book.

[Buck]

1) Jon Jay has a career Sub-800 OPS in the minor leagues. His play so far has been an aberration. He'll never be an every day starter for this team. He's much better suited as a 4th OF.

2) If you are looking for someone as a Ludwick replacement, look at Craig

3) We are downgrading our outfield defense

4) Although we can offer Ludwick arb next year, you'd have to be a fool to think that he couldn't command more than Jake Westbrook on the open market. In essence, we save no money.

5) The Indians only sent us cash to offset the INCREASE in salary that Westbrook gets relative to Ludwick.

6) Let's say that we retain Westbrook next year. Then, not only would we pay more than Ludwick, we'd be paying $3 million more (11 vs. 8....assuming we wouldn't trade Luddy) for a 1 WAR pitcher.

By no measure does this make the team better unless you assume that Jon Jay continues to hit at a clip that he's never been able to hit at even in the major leagues. That's not a knock on Jay, either.

And despite all this you will beat the Padres in the first round of the playoffs, again.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

And despite all this you will beat the Padres in the first round of the playoffs, again.

If you can score two runs a game, you'll get us.

This offense is atrocious.

4 of the 9 batters are automatic outs: (Shumaker/Miles, Ryan, Molina, Pitcher's spot), and against LHP, that list expands further.

[Marcellus]

Per Stl PD - The former All-Star and Silver Slugger right fielder is due $5.45 million this season and is third-time arbitration-eligible next winter. Speculation had mounted that the Cardinals would eventually deal Ludwick as they sought salary relief in preparation for negotiating a lengthy extension with first baseman Albert Pujols.Given the remaining dollars owed Ludwick this season and the $1.5 million in appearance incentives the club will save on injured starting pitcher Brad Penny, the Cardinals may actually realize a cash savings.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Per Stl PD - The former All-Star and Silver Slugger right fielder is due $5.45 million this season and is third-time arbitration-eligible next winter. Speculation had mounted that the Cardinals would eventually deal Ludwick as they sought salary relief in preparation for negotiating a lengthy extension with first baseman Albert Pujols.Given the remaining dollars owed Ludwick this season and the $1.5 million in appearance incentives the club will save on injured starting pitcher Brad Penny, the Cardinals may actually realize a cash savings.

This is classic bullshit.

Ludwick is making 5.45 this year

Westbrook is making 10 million

What Ludwick would have made next year is irrelevant, he was going to be dealt before the '11 season, and he would have fetched far more than Jake Westbrook and the guy who got cut 10 minutes into Bull Durham

Penny's non-reached incentives have no bearing on this deal. It's a complete non-sequitur.

[Marcellus]

This is classic bullshit.

Ludwick is making 5.45 this year

Westbrook is making 10 million

What Ludwick would have made next year is irrelevant, he was going to be dealt before the '11 season, and he would have fetched far more than Jake Westbrook and the guy who got cut 10 minutes into Bull Durham

Penny's non-reached incentives have no bearing on this deal. It's a complete non-sequitur.

I think they are using the $ Penny is not getting plus the $ they aren't paying Ludwick coupled with what Cleveland is picking up in salary. If Penny were healthy the trade wouldn't be made basically.

Regardless if you save $1MM (which they aren't) it's probably still not worth it. I don't care for the deal either but Ludwick was gone after this year either way.

Ballsy move. They better go deep in the PO's and Jay needs to tear it up to make it worth it for this season.

[LiL stumppy]

I'm sorry that using past results in the minor leagues that indicate that he doesn't have the power or speed to stick in the OF somehow comes off to your dumb Okie ass as being clairvoyant.

Don't worry, though. I'm sure he'll keep his .446 BABIP up.

Players do get better?















Right?

[Jewish Rabbi]

I liked baseball so much more before this sabermetrics shit.

[BigRedChief]

After Jocketty was fired at the end of the 2007 season.uhhh no one is perfect.....Haren trade ring a bell?

I don't know chit about Westbrook but I figured Ludwick was gone after this year.

We can't keep 2 highly paid outfielders on our team. The math just doesn't work if you want to keep Pujols/Molina/Carp and Waino after 2012.

[Marco Polo]

I hate this trade. I get the fact that we were eventually going to trade him. However, we should've gotten much more than this. Houston gets nothing for Oswalt; we give up a Top 5 RF for a #4 SP. Unbelievable.

[Frazod]

I hate this trade. I get the fact that we were eventually going to trade him. However, we should've gotten much more than this. Houston gets nothing for Oswalt; we give up a Top 5 RF for a #4 SP. Unbelievable.

I would have loved to get either Oswalt or Lilly - but not if the price is Ludwick playing for Houston or Chicago.

Too bad we couldn't have used him to get Haren back.

This trade sucks, but... but... looking for the positive here.... not really working....

FML

:facepalm:

[Buck]

I would have loved to get either Oswalt or Lilly - but not if the price is Ludwick playing for Houston or Chicago.

Too bad we couldn't have used him to get Haren back.

This trade sucks, but... but... looking for the positive here.... not really working....

FML

:facepalm:

Hopefully he hits for us because we haven't hit for shit lately. Its really frustrating when you go 7-3 after the All Star Break, while the 2nd place team goes 9-3 in the same stretch, and then you go 0-2 after that and teh 2nd place team goes 2-0.

Long story short, the Giants are only 1.5 back now, while they've been pretty much 5-6 back the whole season (at the same time the Dodgers and Rockies are now like 7 and 8 games back). The fucking Dodgers are no help and fucking fail every time they play the Giants.

Ludwick debuts for the Padres today and has to face Josh Johnson of all people. Hopefully his bat helps our lineup.

[Marcellus]

I would have loved to get either Oswalt or Lilly - but not if the price is Ludwick playing for Houston or Chicago.

Too bad we couldn't have used him to get Haren back.

This trade sucks, but... but... looking for the positive here.... not really working....

FML

:facepalm:

I like Luddy too but we know he was gone eventually. They gave up a good player but that is better than losing one of our prospects like Miller to get a rental SP. Maybe we should wait to see how Westbrook pitches before diving off the cliff?

No way we could keep running our 4 & 5 pitchers out there to give up 5 runs in 5 innings every stinking game.

[BigRedChief]

A sweep and Pujols bashing again. me likee :clap:

[Frazod]

A sweep and Pujols bashing again. me likee :clap:

It was the Pirates, and it was at home. When we can actually beat ANYBODY on the road again, perhaps I'll get excited.

[DJ's left nut]

It's not a horrible trade.. Ludwick was due arbritation at the end of the year, and was gonna cost them around 8 million next year.. Jon Jay has been a beast,and is young and CHEAP, which will help get Albert signed. And the Indians sent the Cards cash as well.

Westbrook is WAY better than Suppan or Hawksworth, so we made our rotation a little better, saved 8 million, and it gives us more room to sign Albert..

The Indians offered Westbrook for free to anyone that was willing to take on his salary.

We traded Ludwick so we wouldn't have to pay for Westbrook.

In other words, we traded Ludwick for cash. Not for Jake Westbrook, but as a straight up salary dump.

Ownership just traded our GG caliber RFer and #5 hitter in the middle of a pennant race because they didn't want to pay for him.

That's a horseshit move. And if it is sold as a move that was necessary to re-sign Pujols, those assholes can suck my dick. They bought the ballclub for as much as they later sold the parking garages it came with for. They essentially got the Cardinals for free, and then got the city to chip in a bunch of money on a new stadium. Those guys could lose $100 million/season for the next 10 years, sell the club and still come out ahead.

It's a bullshit move by a skinflint ownership team and their stooge GM that couldn't get his rotation patched up without giving away the farm.

[DJ's left nut]

Oh yeah, and when they're paying $4 million for some washup 2b in 2 seasons (Blake DeWitt sounds about right) because they didn't peddle Ludwick in the offseason for a MI prospect, we'll get to hear about how they couldn't afford to re-sign Wainwright because they had to fill the hole at 2b.

It was a hideous allocation of resources.

Especially if the 'upside' is the privilege of giving Pujols $30 million/season in his decline years. Yippee.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

I like Luddy too but we know he was gone eventually. They gave up a good player but that is better than losing one of our prospects like Miller to get a rental SP. Maybe we should wait to see how Westbrook pitches before diving off the cliff?

No way we could keep running our 4 & 5 pitchers out there to give up 5 runs in 5 innings every stinking game.

Even if we gave up Miller for Oswalt (unlikely given what the Astros took back), we'd have him for at least the rest of this year and all of 2011.

This was a travesty. We owned Ludwick's rights through 2011. Either we keep him through 2011 and get type A compensation for him.

Instead, we trade him for a fringe #4 just so that we'll get his salary covered.

That's pathetic.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

We could have easily traded Ottavino, Boggs, or Darryl Jones for Westbrook straight up.

If we wanted to trade Ludwick, I'm betting we could have sent him to any number of teams for a far better SP in the offseason.

[DJ's left nut]

We could have easily traded Ottavino, Boggs, or Darryl Jones for Westbrook straight up.

If we wanted to trade Ludwick, I'm betting we could have sent him to any number of teams for a far better SP in the offseason.

And Darryl Jones probably would've had the Indians eating his salary still.

Ya think the Phillies might have had a use for a RH bat that plays a great RF after they let Werth walk in the offseason?

Nah.

Find me a single team in baseball that couldn't use a righthanded power hitter (probably the most difficult offensive presence in baseball right now) that plays excellent defense and is a proven hitter w/ RISP.

But I'm sure the best we could do was Jake MFing Westbrook.

This deal just blows my fucking mind.