1st half conniption fit....I mean commentary

[petegz28]

Oh noes....we are tied 10-10....

Oh noes....our pre-season playcalling is for shit....

Oh noes....Charles didn't get enough carries.....

Oh noes...our front 7 sucks......



I thought we looked pretty good. Better than we did last week. Front 7 played good, we got burned on a missed tackle by a DB.....that isn't the front 7's fault

[FAX]

Charles still averaging about 5 yards a carry. Bowe with a 10 yard average. And Cassel with 125 yards after going 14 for 19 with a touch.

Could be worse, I guess.

FAX

[Dave Lane]

U forgot Matt Cassel sucks

[petegz28]

U forgot Matt Cassel sucks

Oh noes.......!!!!

[notorious]

Better.

[Mr. Laz]

i see another thread where pete responds to himself for about 5 pages coming on.

[notorious]

i see another thread where pete responds to himself for about 5 pages coming on.


LMAO

This isn't DC. Hopefully he will display some self-control.

[Coach]

While there's still room for improvement for everybody involved, the showing was a little better, although it is Tampa, who most people wildly believe that they will be the worst team in the 2010-2011 season.

[boogblaster]

we looked ok

[OnTheWarpath15]

While there's still room for improvement for everybody involved, the showing was a little better, although it is Tampa, who most people wildly believe that they will be the worst team in the 2010-2011 season.

I haven't seen it, and won't be able to until Monday, but yours is one of the few opinions here I trust, so...

Was there improvement this week, or was it just the same level of suck against a lessor opponent, making it look like improvement?

[petegz28]

I haven't seen it, and won't be able to until Monday, but yours is one of the few opinions here I trust, so...

Was there improvement this week, or was it just the same level of suck against a lessor opponent, making it look like improvement?

I know this was not asked of me but I can't help myself.

Maybe both. Our run defense looked great with our starters. We moved the ball on offense. First drive got cut short on a Jones fumble that resulted in 3pts. We came back and scored a TD off a nice drive. If Flowers makes a tackle Tampa probably never gets their TD but he went high when he should have went low and we had a blitz on. Result was a 53 yard TD. We came back to tie it at the half, obviously.


Pass protection was much better. Defense was getting good pressure even with a 4 man rush. Carr still needs some work. Arena is the real ****ing deal on KR's, I will say that now.

[Saul Good]

The biggest error that I saw was clock management at the end of the half. Why did we give away a down by spiking the ball when we had a timeout? That drives me insane. We wound up ending the half with plenty of time, but it was 4th and 1. Sure would have been nice to have used the timeout and had a 3rd and 1 instead.

[petegz28]

The biggest error that I saw was clock management at the end of the half. Why did we give away a down by spiking the ball when we had a timeout? That drives me insane. We wound up ending the half with plenty of time, but it was 4th and 1. Sure would have been nice to have used the timeout and had a 3rd and 1 instead.

Agreed but when it comes to pre-seaons and the way coaches think I wouldn't be surprise if there was some logic that doesn't make since to us fans behind it all.

[Tiger's Fan]

The biggest error that I saw was clock management at the end of the half. Why did we give away a down by spiking the ball when we had a timeout? That drives me insane. We wound up ending the half with plenty of time, but it was 4th and 1. Sure would have been nice to have used the timeout and had a 3rd and 1 instead.

There were 38 seconds left, and we still had a timeout too. Not a wise decision there.

[ChiefaRoo]

i see another thread where pete responds to himself for about 5 pages coming on.

heh

[LaChapelle]

Battle has that LJ moving in molasses thing going on
and like LJ use to makes yardage

[Mr. Arrowhead]

I thought Tamba was a beast tonight

[DaneMcCloud]

I know this was not asked of me but I can't help myself.

Maybe both. Our run defense looked great with our starters. We moved the ball on offense. First drive got cut short on a Jones fumble that resulted in 3pts. We came back and scored a TD off a nice drive. If Flowers makes a tackle Tampa probably never gets their TD but he went high when he should have went low and we had a blitz on. Result was a 53 yard TD. We came back to tie it at the half, obviously.


Pass protection was much better. Defense was getting good pressure even with a 4 man rush. Carr still needs some work. Arena is the real ****ing deal on KR's, I will say that now.

I'll need to watch this game Monday on the NFL network instead of on a shitty computer, but I disagree completely with the idea that the Chiefs looked "great" on offense or defense.

Arenas set up the first touchdown and gave the Chiefs a VERY short field in which to score. After that, they couldn't do shit. The defense hardly pressured Tampa Bay's SECOND string QB and from what I could tell, Cadillac Williams barely played.

The Bucs passing game consistently carved up the Chiefs defense for big chunks in the first half. Mike Williams was catching everything in sight (including burning Flowers for a huge TD) but also on crossing and sideline patterns. Michael Clayton chipped in for a few nice passes and there was little to no pressure on Josh Johnson. In the few cases there was pressure Johnson either took off for a big gainer or step up into the pocket to make his throws.

Johnson is a second year, 5th rounder that made the Chiefs defense look as bad as normal. Keep in mind, this is a Tampa team that won three fucking games last year and the Chiefs starters and backups failed to beat the Bucs starters and backups.

IMO, it was fucking pathetic.

[petegz28]

I'll need to watch this game Monday on the NFL network instead of on a shitty computer, but I disagree completely with the idea that the Chiefs looked "great" on offense or defense.

Arenas set up the first touchdown and gave the Chiefs a VERY short field in which to score. After that, they couldn't do shit. The defense hardly pressured Tampa Bay's SECOND string QB and from what I could tell, Cadillac Williams barely played.

The Bucs passing game consistently carved up the Chiefs defense for big chunks in the first half. Mike Williams was catching everything in sight (including burning Flowers for a huge TD) but also on crossing and sideline patterns. Michael Clayton chipped in for a few nice passes and there was little to no pressure on Josh Johnson. In the few cases there was pressure Johnson either took off for a big gainer or step up into the pocket to make his throws.

Johnson is a second year, 5th rounder that made the Chiefs defense look as bad as normal. Keep in mind, this is a Tampa team that won three ****ing games last year and the Chiefs starters and backups failed to beat the Bucs starters and backups.

IMO, it was ****ing pathetic.

Well, shickingly we are in disagreement. They hardly carved us up in the 1st half. They had about 20 yards or so more than us passing in the 1st half and 50+ of their yards came on a missed tackle. So I don't know where you got all of these big gainers from? We outrushed them and held the ball longer than them and that was with a turnover.

And yes, Arenas did set up a short field. So what? That's what he is there to do. And we capitalized on it like we should have by putting 7 on the board. We set up a short field for them when Jones fumbled and we held them to 3.

[petegz28]

Cassel goes 14-19 for 125 and a TD in the 1st half and people bitch.

Charles carried for about a 5 yard average and people bitch.

Bowe had a 10yd average and people bitch.

We hold them to 10 pts, 3 of which came off a turnover and 7 from a missed tackle and people bitch.

There was hardly anything to gripe about in the 1st half except Flowers making an ill-advised attempt at a high tackle.

[Saul Good]

I'll need to watch this game Monday on the NFL network instead of on a shitty computer, but I disagree completely with the idea that the Chiefs looked "great" on offense or defense.

Arenas set up the first touchdown and gave the Chiefs a VERY short field in which to score. After that, they couldn't do shit. The defense hardly pressured Tampa Bay's SECOND string QB and from what I could tell, Cadillac Williams barely played.

The Bucs passing game consistently carved up the Chiefs defense for big chunks in the first half. Mike Williams was catching everything in sight (including burning Flowers for a huge TD) but also on crossing and sideline patterns. Michael Clayton chipped in for a few nice passes and there was little to no pressure on Josh Johnson. In the few cases there was pressure Johnson either took off for a big gainer or step up into the pocket to make his throws.

Johnson is a second year, 5th rounder that made the Chiefs defense look as bad as normal. Keep in mind, this is a Tampa team that won three ****ing games last year and the Chiefs starters and backups failed to beat the Bucs starters and backups.

IMO, it was ****ing pathetic.

We fumbled in our own territory, and our defense held them to a field goal. Other than that, we have up one big play which turned into a long TD reception. 10 total points given up in the first half.

Matt Cassel completes 70+% of his passes for 125 yards, 1 TD, and 0 INTs for a rating of 108.

****ing pathetic is right.

[Saul Good]

I will say that out athleticism is greatly improved. It's nice seeing guys like Charles, McCluster, Arenas, and even Bowe with the ball in their hands.

[petegz28]

I will say that out athleticism is greatly improved. It's nice seeing guys like Charles, McCluster, Arenas, and even Bowe with the ball in their hands.

McCluster didn't handle the ball but I think twice, once went pretty much no where the other was a good gain.

Arenas did what we brought him here to do.

Charles is Charles

[Mr. Arrowhead]

This is Chiefsplanet, people would still bitch even if we won the Super bowl

[DaneMcCloud]

We fumbled in our own territory, and our defense held them to a field goal. Other than that, we have up one big play which turned into a long TD reception. 10 total points given up in the first half.

Matt Cassel completes 70+% of his passes for 125 yards, 1 TD, and 0 INTs for a rating of 108.

****ing pathetic is right.

Yeah, you're right. The degree of difficulty for a 6'5, 230 pound professionally trained athlete to throw the football 9-12 feet at a time is off the charts.

Cassel's inhuman.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Yeah, you're right. The degree of difficulty for a 6'5, 230 pound professionally trained athlete to throw the football 9-12 feet at a time is off the charts.

Cassel's inhuman.

More dink and dunk, eh?

[petegz28]

Yeah, you're right. The degree of difficulty for a 6'5, 230 pound professionally trained athlete to throw the football 9-12 feet at a time is off the charts.

Cassel's inhuman.

If you have paid any attention you know I am not a Cassel fan. But JFC, Dane, he had a great game. I like a ball possession offense anyway. I would like to see us go deep more but fuck, how you can complain about his performance tonight is beyond me?

[Titty Meat]

Cassel acutally played good tonight I know you guys won't see it through your bullshit colored Gunther glasses.

[petegz28]

More dink and dunk, eh?

Conservative but that is just how this offense is going to be. And that is fine with me as long as we move the ball. It eats time off the clock and keeps the legs of the defense fresh. Our running game looked good tonight. Say what you will that it was against Tampa but it looked good in the 1st half.

[Titty Meat]

Charlie Weis was brought in to throw down field

[petegz28]

Last week everyone cried that Cassel only threw 4 yard passes. First play of the game he throws for 11 or 12 and people are bitching that it wasn't 20. I am not sold on Cassel but I am not going to shit on a guy who had a good game either.

[petegz28]

Charlie Weis was brought in to throw down field

Well you can only do what your talen level allows you to do, for one.

Secondly we weren't in a position to have to throw deep a lot. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember NE airing it out down the field when Weis was there.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Conservative but that is just how this offense is going to be. And that is fine with me as long as we move the ball. It eats time off the clock and keeps the legs of the defense fresh. Our running game looked good tonight. Say what you will that it was against Tampa but it looked good in the 1st half.

That's a big if, IMO.

When defenses don't have to worry about anything thrown more than 10 yards in the air, it makes their job much easier.

Add in the gameplanning of the regular season, and we could be in some trouble if we can't stretch the field a bit.

Hopefully we can just run the ball and not have to worry about Cassel and his lack of downfield accuracy.

[Chiefaholic]

Well, shickingly we are in disagreement. They hardly carved us up in the 1st half. They had about 20 yards or so more than us passing in the 1st half and 50+ of their yards came on a missed tackle. So I don't know where you got all of these big gainers from? We outrushed them and held the ball longer than them and that was with a turnover.

And yes, Arenas did set up a short field. So what? That's what he is there to do. And we capitalized on it like we should have by putting 7 on the board. We set up a short field for them when Jones fumbled and we held them to 3.

Agreed

[Saul Good]

More dink and dunk, eh?

He dink and dunked his way to 125 yards, a TD, and no pics in one half of play.

Tom Brady had one season of 3800+ passing yards in his career prior to Randy Moss joining the team. He had no seasons of a 93 or higher QB rating prior to Randy Moss. He did, however, win three rings.

I'm not saying that Cassel is a star by any means, but people here would be sucking Brady's balls if he played the same game that Cassel just did. He's made a career out of playing that exact same game.

[Titty Meat]

Well you can only do what your talen level allows you to do, for one.

Secondly we weren't in a position to have to throw deep a lot. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember NE airing it out down the field when Weis was there.

It was a joke just tired of seeing the same tired argument even when the guy plays good these guys bitch like battered women. If you aren't going to be objective shut the fuck up.

[DaneMcCloud]

More dink and dunk, eh?

I prefer Stink and Stunk

[DaneMcCloud]

If you have paid any attention you know I am not a Cassel fan. But JFC, Dane, he had a great game. I like a ball possession offense anyway. I would like to see us go deep more but fuck, how you can complain about his performance tonight is beyond me?

GREAT?

How many passes were completed past 20 yards? 15 yards?

I don't think you have a fucking clue as to what a "GREAT" QB performance should look like.

[SPchief]

Charlie Weis was brought in to throw down field

Since when is Weis capable of taking a three step drop?

[OnTheWarpath15]

He dink and dunked his way to 125 yards, a TD, and no pics in one half of play.

Tom Brady had one season of 3800+ passing yards in his career prior to Randy Moss joining the team. He had no seasons of a 93 or higher QB rating prior to Randy Moss. He did, however, win three rings.

I'm not saying that Cassel is a star by any means, but people here would be sucking Brady's balls if he played the same game that Cassel just did. He's made a career out of playing that exact same game.

See two posts above yours.

If you're naive enough to think that this will work for 16 games in the regular season, be my guest.

And if you've lowered you're expectations so much that 10 points in 2 quarters against a piss-poor defense is a good showing, so be it.

I'll watch on Monday/Tuesday and come to my own conclusions, but it sounds like much of the same, only against a lessor opponent.

[petegz28]

That's a big if, IMO.

When defenses don't have to worry about anything thrown more than 10 yards in the air, it makes their job much easier.

Add in the gameplanning of the regular season, and we could be in some trouble if we can't stretch the field a bit.

Hopefully we can just run the ball and not have to worry about Cassel and his lack of downfield accuracy.

Big if? Hardly. Did you not pay attention last year? Once Charles took over the offense improved immensely because it opened things up for the passing game. We are not going to be an air-Manning team. Cassel is not that kind of QB. I think people are just getting bent for no reason right now.

[Titty Meat]

Since when is Weis capable of taking a three step drop?

It was a joke.


I see what you did there.

[notorious]

Since when is Weis capable of taking a three step drop?

ROFL

[petegz28]

GREAT?

How many passes were completed past 20 yards? 15 yards?

I don't think you have a ****ing clue as to what a "GREAT" QB performance should look like.

Dane, I don't give a fuck if we threw 25-4 yd passes if it results in a score. 14-19 for 125 and a TD is a great line any QB would take and any coach would accept.

[DaneMcCloud]

See two posts above yours.

If you're naive enough to think that this will work for 16 games in the regular season, be my guest.

And if you've lowered you're expectations so much that 10 points in 2 quarters against a piss-poor defense is a good showing, so be it.

I'll watch on Monday/Tuesday and come to my own conclusions, but it sounds like much of the same, only against a lessor opponent.

That's what I saw, albeit on a shitty internet broadcast.

Cassel has shown NO ability, IMO, to even be an average QB. Take a look at the Seattle-Green Bay game that's on right now. Charlie Whitehurst is a leader, knows how to improvise and is obviously a player (for $4 million a year, no less).

Cassel is Grbac part 2 with Gannon's arm strength.

And the defense looks as bad as advertised. When second year QB and a 4th round rookie WR consistently carve up your first team defense, you've got problems.

[petegz28]

See two posts above yours.

If you're naive enough to think that this will work for 16 games in the regular season, be my guest.

And if you've lowered you're expectations so much that 10 points in 2 quarters against a piss-poor defense is a good showing, so be it.

I'll watch on Monday/Tuesday and come to my own conclusions, but it sounds like much of the same, only against a lessor opponent.

JFC, it's pre-season.

[Mecca]

Big if? Hardly. Did you not pay attention last year? Once Charles took over the offense improved immensely because it opened things up for the passing game. We are not going to be an air-Manning team. Cassel is not that kind of QB. I think people are just getting bent for no reason right now.

Uh Matt Cassel's passing stats were actually worse with Charles.

[Titty Meat]

That's what I say, albeit on a shitty internet broadcast.

Cassel has shown NO ability, IMO, to even be an average QB. Take a look at the Seattle-Green Bay game that's on right now. Charlie Whitehurst is a leader, knows how to improvise and is obviously a player (for $4 million a year, no less).

Cassel is Grbac part 2 with Gannon's arm strength.

And the defense looks as bad as advertised. When second year QB and a 4th round rookie WR consistently carve up your first team defense, you've got problems.

14-19 125 isn't average? Dane did you even watch the game?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Big if? Hardly. Did you not pay attention last year? Once Charles took over the offense improved immensely because it opened things up for the passing game. We are not going to be an air-Manning team. Cassel is not that kind of QB. I think people are just getting bent for no reason right now.

The passing game regressed when Charles took over, IIRC.

And it has nothing to do with "getting bent." It has everything to do with having realistic expectations once the bullets actually start flying for real.

You can't be one-dimensional in this league when you have a limited amount of talent.

Tell an NFL defense they only have to defend a box 10 yards deep, sideline to sideline, and even the worst will lick their chops.

I think 10 points in just under 4 quarters of work from the 1's speaks for itself.

[Titty Meat]

If we apply the same logic that OTW is using then Tom Brady sucks as well.

[petegz28]

That's what I say, albeit on a shitty internet broadcast.

Cassel has shown NO ability, IMO, to even be an average QB. Take a look at the Seattle-Green Bay game that's on right now. Charlie Whitehurst is a leader, knows how to improvise and is obviously a player (for $4 million a year, no less).

Cassel is Grbac part 2 with Gannon's arm strength.

And the defense looks as bad as advertised. When second year QB and a 4th round rookie WR consistently carve up your first team defense, you've got problems.

Where do you keep getting this carved up shit? They had 1 big play because of a bad tackle that gave them 50+ of their yards and 7 of their 10 pts. They had a short, short field and only came away with 3 pts. Where are you getting this carved up shit?

[DaneMcCloud]

Dane, I don't give a fuck if we threw 25-4 yd passes if it results in a score. 14-19 for 125 and a TD is a great line any QB would take and any coach would accept.

Against the youngest team in the league? A team that scored just as many points?

LMAO

[petegz28]

If we apply the same logic that OTW is using then Tom Brady sucks as well.

Guess so.

[Titty Meat]

Where do you keep getting this carved up shit? They had 1 big play because of a bad tackle that gave them 50+ of their yards and 7 of their 10 pts. They had a short, short field and only came away with 3 pts. Where are you getting this carved up shit?

These guys are paper champions it's apparent they don't watch the game and only go by stats (unless it's Cassel)

[Mecca]

Where do you keep getting this carved up shit? They had 1 big play because of a bad tackle that gave them 50+ of their yards and 7 of their 10 pts. They had a short, short field and only came away with 3 pts. Where are you getting this carved up shit?

How many times was Mike Williams open and how many times did the ball go there? It was a consistent theme of the first half.

And his point is valid, you take a defense and tell them they only have to defend a 10 yard box and watch what happens...not to mention the Chiefs defense is not going to consistently get stops..

How's this story end?

[petegz28]

Against the youngest team in the league? A team that scored just as many points?

LMAO

I give up.

[Titty Meat]

Guess so.

It's true the other night vs ATL Brady was dinking and dunking it to Welker all game and missed Randy Moss down field who had the secondary beat. Welker has been one of the league leader in catches the last few years how many of those do you want to be were thrown from less than 5 yards?

[Mecca]

And that Randy Moss guy and that deep shot to him is why those passes to Welker are open...try that here without that deep threat and watch how it's defended.

[OnTheWarpath15]

If we apply the same logic that OTW is using then Tom Brady sucks as well.

?

You're comparing a guy that has won 3 Super Bowl rings, and had a better completion percentage from 11-20 yards last year than Cassel did overall - to a preseason performance against one of the worst defenses in the league - and only scoring 10 points to boot?

You might want to look in the mirror if you're looking for flawed logic.

Tom Brady has no problem throwing the ball downfield.

[Titty Meat]

And that Randy Moss guy and that deep shot to him is why those passes to Welker are open...try that here without that deep threat and watch how it's defended.

You actually just made a great for argument. Chambers/Bowe sure aren't Randy Moss.

[Mecca]

I don't think he understands there's a difference in throwing a short pass because it's open and then taking your deep shot when it's there opposed to throwing short passes because it's all you can do.

[DeezNutz]

It's true the other night vs ATL Brady was dinking and dunking it to Welker all game and missed Randy Moss down field who had the secondary beat. Welker has been one of the league leader in catches the last few years how many of those do you want to be were thrown from less than 5 yards?

Has Brady established the fact that he can throw a good deep ball consistently? Do defenses have to respect the team's ability to stretch the field?

[Titty Meat]

?

You're comparing a guy that has won 3 Super Bowl rings, and had a better completion percentage from 11-20 yards last year than Cassel did overall - to a preseason performance against one of the worst defenses in the league - and only scoring 10 points to boot?

You might want to look in the mirror if you're looking for flawed logic.

Tom Brady has no problem throwing the ball downfield.

Classic OTW changing the goal post.


Listen,

You said Cassel was less than average tonight because he barley threw passes for more than 10 yards. How many throws from Brady to Welker or Faulk are for more than 5 yards?

[petegz28]

How many times was Mike Williams open and how many times did the ball go there? It was a consistent theme of the first half.

And his point is valid, you take a defense and tell them they only have to defend a 10 yard box and watch what happens...not to mention the Chiefs defense is not going to consistently get stops..

How's this story end?

Charles tore it up against Atlanta. Charles tore it up tonight for the limited time he has been in both games. You guys are all shitting your pants over games that are called so differently from the regular season.

So to answer your question, you know what you get when a defense does that like that did to us last year? JC going for over 1,000 yards in about 1/2 a season.

Really, some of you guys are just funny as hell with this stuff. I am not saying we are SB bound bound but come on. It is pre-season and we are still a developing team.

I saw people bitching about Tyson Jackson on a play where he didn't fall for the bootleg and ran the QB out of bounds. The QB gained a few yards but how many lineman are going to run down a mobile QB from behind? Yet people still found room to bitch about the play.

[Mecca]

You actually just made a great for argument. Chambers/Bowe sure aren't Randy Moss.

Matt Cassel couldn't even consistently throw it down the field when he had Moss the best deep ball receiver to ever play the game...this issue is his.

[Saul Good]

Against the youngest team in the league? A team that scored just as many points?

LMAO

What should Cassel's line have been? He threw one ball away on a busted play, and he spiked the ball once to stop the clock. Other than that, he had 3 incompletions in the half. What should his numbers have been?

[petegz28]

Has Brady established the fact that he can throw a good deep ball consistently? Do defenses have to respect the team's ability to stretch the field?

I would say he didn't establish his deep threat until Moss got there.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Classic OTW changing the goal post.


Listen,

You said Cassel was less than average tonight because he barley threw passes for more than 10 yards. How many throws from Brady to Welker or Faulk are for more than 5 yards?

Where did I say that Cassel was "less than average?"

I'll wait.

[Saul Good]

Has Brady established the fact that he can throw a good deep ball consistently? Do defenses have to respect the team's ability to stretch the field?

He won 3 rings before he ever threw the ball downfield. He hasn't won anything since.

[Mecca]

Charles tore it up against Atlanta. Charles tore it up tonight for the limited time he has been in both games. You guys are all shitting your pants over games that are called so differently from the regular season.

So to answer your question, you know what you get when a defense does that like that did to us last year? JC going for over 1,000 yards in about 1/2 a season.

Really, some of you guys are just funny as hell with this stuff. I am not saying we are SB bound bound but come on. It is pre-season and we are still a developing team.

I saw people bitching about Tyson Jackson on a play where he didn't fall for the bootleg and ran the QB out of bounds. The QB gained a few yards but how many lineman are going to run down a mobile QB from behind? Yet people still found room to bitch about the play.

Charles tore shit up for half of last year, it didn't make Matt Cassel improve, is this hard to understand?

[Titty Meat]

Has Brady established the fact that he can throw a good deep ball consistently? Do defenses have to respect the team's ability to stretch the field?

I'd like to see Brady's stats throwing downfield his first few years. I don't recall him being great at it.

[notorious]

He won 3 rings before he ever threw the ball downfield. He hasn't won anything since.

I said the same thing during the game thread.


Does anyone have a well thought-out, non-offensive explanation for this?

[DeezNutz]

What should Cassel's line have been? He threw one ball away on a busted play, and he spiked the ball once to stop the clock. Other than that, he had 3 incompletions in the half. What should his numbers have been?

He had a very solid stat line. This isn't arguable, IMO.

But let me give you a microcosm for why I think he's yet another worthless sack of shit in a long line of worthless sacks of shit that we've had at the QB position:

3rd and about 7. Time in the pocket. No heavy pressure. Cassel shits himself and literally runs into a sack instead of staying strong in the pocket.

This is the anti Trent Green. That sumbitch was impervious to danger in the pocket. Not surprisingly, who lit up Cassel for his stupidity?

All of this goes back to my claim that Cassel possesses modest talent (at best) and extremely limited football instincts. And you're not going to teach or develop the latter at the professional level.

[Mecca]

I said the same thing during the game thread.


Does anyone have a well thought-out, non-offensive explanation for this?

That has more to do with the decline of their defense, but even when he wasn't throwing bombs, he still threw it more vertically than Cassel does.

I'm not asking Cassel to drop in 50 yarders on a dime, I'm asking him to be a solid intermediate passer that moves the sticks, Brady was that.

[-King-]

You guys have to remember that Tom Brady had a great deep ball receiver back in 01-04. Remember all those deep balls he comple.......oh wait.

[DeezNutz]

He won 3 rings before he ever threw the ball downfield. He hasn't won anything since.

What? :spock:

[Titty Meat]

Where did I say that Cassel was "less than average?"

I'll wait.

My mistake I appear to have you confused with Dane. I didn't see you say he played good tonight which he did.

[Mecca]

He had a very solid stat line. This isn't arguable, IMO.

But let me give you a microcosm for why I think he's yet another worthless sack of shit in a long line of worthless sacks of shit that we've had at the QB position:

3rd and about 7. Time in the pocket. No heavy pressure. Cassel shits himself and literally runs into a sack instead of staying strong in the pocket.

This is the anti Trent Green. That sumbitch was impervious to danger in the pocket. Not surprisingly, who lit up Cassel for his stupidity?

All of this goes back to my claim that Cassel possesses modest talent (at best) and extremely limited football instincts. And you're not going to teach or develop the latter at the professional level.

He just refuses to stand tall to make a throw, he will try to run and run right into a sack, happens way more than it should.

[petegz28]

?

You're comparing a guy that has won 3 Super Bowl rings, and had a better completion percentage from 11-20 yards last year than Cassel did overall - to a preseason performance against one of the worst defenses in the league - and only scoring 10 points to boot?

You might want to look in the mirror if you're looking for flawed logic.

Tom Brady has no problem throwing the ball downfield.

You guys are right, going by the logic some of you are trying to apply:

Atl sucks, they only scored 10 pts at home against NE
PHI sucks, they only scored 9 pts
CAR and NYJ suck cause 12 points were scored in total in that game

[notorious]

That has more to do with the decline of their defense,



They did make the defensive holding rule because of NE, too. That didn't help their average D-Backs very much.

[Saul Good]

What? :spock:

Which part confuses you? He won a Superbowl and a Superbowl MVP in a season where his running back threw for as many postseason TDs as he did.

Charlie Weis calls plays with short routes and a quick release of the football. Cassel could have thrown deep, but there wouldn't have been any receivers near where the balls landed.

[OnTheWarpath15]

He won 3 rings before he ever threw the ball downfield. He hasn't won anything since.

You're confusing a "deep threat" for throwing downfield.

There's an area you seem to be ignoring that's anywhere from 10-30 yards past the LOS.

When Cassel starts consistently completing passes in the 10+ range, we'll talk.

Otherwise, bringing Brady into the discussion just makes you look stupid.

[The Bad Guy]

I really don't think some of you remember the Tom Brady throwing to Troy Brown and David Givens with Charlie Weis calling games.

They took few shots and everything was a short to slightly intermediate route.

[notorious]

What? :spock:

He should have reworded his post:


New England's offense exploded after Weis left, with Brady going down field a LOT more, yet they have no rings to show for.

[Titty Meat]

I really don't think some of you remember the Tom Brady throwing to Troy Brown and David Givens with Charlie Weis calling games.

They took few shots and everything was a short to slightly intermediate route.

Yup. Wasn't it a dink pass to Faulk that set up the game winning FG vs the Rams?

[Mecca]

You guys are right, going by the logic some of you are trying to apply:

Atl sucks, they only scored 10 pts at home against NE
PHI sucks, they only scored 9 pts
CAR and NYJ suck cause 12 points were scored in total in that game

Carolina's offense did look like a giant sack of shit in that game..but OTW is using 2 games not one as the Chiefs starters went scoreless in their 1st.

So you probably should understand his point before commenting on it.

[DeezNutz]

You're confusing a "deep threat" for throwing downfield.

There's an area you seem to be ignoring that's anywhere from 10-30 yards past the LOS.

When Cassel starts consistently completing passes in the 10+ range, we'll talk.

Otherwise, bringing Brady into the discussion just makes you look stupid.

No, no. If Brady would start focusing on the 3-yard routes, the Pats might have more success.

Get back to the SB recipe.

[Mecca]

I really don't think some of you remember the Tom Brady throwing to Troy Brown and David Givens with Charlie Weis calling games.

They took few shots and everything was a short to slightly intermediate route.

And we're watching Cassel not even get to intermediate let alone a rare deep shot.

[Saul Good]

He just refuses to stand tall to make a throw, he will try to run and run right into a sack, happens way more than it should.

Cassel was sacked once.

[DeezNutz]

Cassel could have thrown deep, but there wouldn't have been any receivers near where the balls landed.

LMAO.

Agreed.

[petegz28]

You're confusing a "deep threat" for throwing downfield.

There's an area you seem to be ignoring that's anywhere from 10-30 yards past the LOS.

When Cassel starts consistently completing passes in the 10+ range, we'll talk.

Otherwise, bringing Brady into the discussion just makes you look stupid.

Tom Brady's highest avg. yards per attempt was in 2007 and it was a whopping 8.3. :eek:

[OnTheWarpath15]

I really don't think some of you remember the Tom Brady throwing to Troy Brown and David Givens with Charlie Weis calling games.

They took few shots and everything was a short to slightly intermediate route.

I remember it quite clearly.

Tom Brady completed more than 38% of his passes over 10 yards.

That's why it's retarded that people are even bringing Brady into this discussion.

The Pats had a short AND intermediate passing game.

The Chiefs don't. Almost everything is within 10 yards of the LOS.

Nevermind that the Pats had a pretty solid defense that allowed them to play that style of offense - something else they had that we don't.

[DeezNutz]

Cassel sacked himself once.

FYP.

[Mecca]

Cassel was sacked once.

Were you impressed when he could have stood tall and taken a hit to throw and instead pulled it down and ran into a defender to make it a 4th down?

[DaneMcCloud]

Dane, I don't give a fuck if we threw 25-4 yd passes if it results in a score. 14-19 for 125 and a TD is a great line any QB would take and any coach would accept.

Bullshit.

Charlie Whitehurst was just 14-21 with 215 yards, 2TD's and 1 int.

THAT I'd take.

[petegz28]

Tom Brady's career avg yard pet attempt is 7.3

No, I am not saying Cassel is Brady. But I am saying that some of you need to wake up and smell what you're smoking.

[Mecca]

I remember it quite clearly.

Tom Brady completed more than 38% of his passes over 10 yards.

That's why it's retarded that people are even bringing Brady into this discussion.

The Pats had a short AND intermediate passing game.

The Chiefs don't. Almost everything is within 10 yards of the LOS.

Nevermind that the Pats had a pretty solid defense that allowed them to play that style of offense - something else they had that we don't.

Bingo, I've made this point a few times.

[petegz28]

Bullshit.

Charlie Whitehurst was just 14-21 with 215 yards, 2TD's and 1 int.

THAT I'd take.

Good for him.

[DaneMcCloud]

JFC, it's pre-season.

Take a look around the league.

How many NFL starting QB's that are in the Top Ten of earning suck this bad?

And do you honestly believe there's going to be some huge jump in Cassel's production come September?

LMAO

[OnTheWarpath15]

Tom Brady's highest avg. yards per attempt was in 2007 and it was a whopping 8.3. :eek:

Well, fuck counselor. You've made your case. That proves everything.

[DaneMcCloud]

It's true the other night vs ATL Brady was dinking and dunking it to Welker all game and missed Randy Moss down field who had the secondary beat. Welker has been one of the league leader in catches the last few years how many of those do you want to be were thrown from less than 5 yards?

Welker hasn't even suited up this season.

If you're referring to Julian Edelman...

[Titty Meat]

Well, **** counselor. You've made your case. That proves everything.

By your logic yes it does.

[Titty Meat]

Welker hasn't even suited up this season.

If you're referring to Julian Edelman...

Nah Welker played last night.

[-King-]

Welker hasn't even suited up this season.

If you're referring to Julian Edelman...

:spock: Yeah he has.

[notorious]

:facepalm:

[petegz28]

Take a look around the league.

How many NFL starting QB's that are in the Top Ten of earning suck this bad?

And do you honestly believe there's going to be some huge jump in Cassel's production come September?

LMAO

Where did I ever say huge jump? Again, I am no Cassel fan but he would have had a better season last year if our WR's weren't dropping 8 passes a game.

[Titty Meat]

Look all I'm saying is Cassel played well tonight.

As for the defense it is far far behind the offense. Whats the over under on threads made about Berry being a bust?

[DeezNutz]

Where did I ever say huge jump? Again, I am no Cassel fan but he would have had a better season last year if our WR's weren't dropping 8 passes a game.

And if the offensive line were better! And if we had a decent running game!

[The Bad Guy]

I remember it quite clearly.

Tom Brady completed more than 38% of his passes over 10 yards.

That's why it's retarded that people are even bringing Brady into this discussion.

The Pats had a short AND intermediate passing game.

The Chiefs don't. Almost everything is within 10 yards of the LOS.

Nevermind that the Pats had a pretty solid defense that allowed them to play that style of offense - something else they had that we don't.

I'll wait until the real games are played to analyze the offense.

[OnTheWarpath15]

By your logic yes it does.

What logic?

That Brady can throw accurately at any distance, while Cassel can only throw accurately within 10 yards?

I'm still waiting for you to quote the post in this thread where I said Cassel was "less than average."

[DaneMcCloud]

What should Cassel's line have been? He threw one ball away on a busted play, and he spiked the ball once to stop the clock. Other than that, he had 3 incompletions in the half. What should his numbers have been?

You're not getting this, at all.

Charlie Weis designed the Stink & Stunk for Cassel because that's all he's capable of doing successfully. He can't throw the ball accurately down the field and he's incapable of putting a team on his shoulders and marching them down the field.

If you limit his throws to 8 yards or less, he's fine. Anything more than that and your risking interceptions and worse.

The problem with that philosophy and that type of player is that a decent defense will load up to stop those plays, probably by the second quarter. And if your QB can't stretch the field, they'll just load up eight men in the box and stop the run.

It's a no-win situation.

[Saul Good]

Were you impressed when he could have stood tall and taken a hit to throw and instead pulled it down and ran into a defender to make it a 4th down?

The only sack he took was when the DT came charging through the line, Charles didn't have time to pick up the block, and Cassel was hit before he hit his plant foot on the dropback. He didn't scramble. He didn't have time to scramble. It was a missed blocking assignment.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'll wait until the real games are played to analyze the offense.

That's fine.

Just like it's fine for me to not reasonably expect the "switch" to be magically flipped come September 13th.

[Tiger's Fan]

Welker hasn't even suited up this season.

If you're referring to Julian Edelman...

Wow, dane making shit up. Who'd a thunk it.

You should really go professional with this being a fucking lying asshole thing.

[-King-]

All I know is that I sure as fuck wouldn't want that retard Sanchez. 1.2 yards per pass? LMAO

[Titty Meat]

What logic?

That Brady can throw accurately at any distance, while Cassel can only throw accurately within 10 yards?

I'm still waiting for you to quote the post in this thread where I said Cassel was "less than average."

No, this shit about Cassel sucks so he has to dink and dunk. I'm sayin Brady does the same thing.


And I already explained I mistaked you and Dane. But lets not beat around the bush I see nowhere in here where you said Cassel played good or even average tonight.

[DaneMcCloud]

Nah Welker played last night.

No shit? I didn't watch the game and I'd read reports that he wouldn't play until week one.

My bad. But what a badass.

[Mecca]

The only sack he took was when the DT came charging through the line, Charles didn't have time to pick up the block, and Cassel was hit before he hit his plant foot on the dropback. He didn't scramble. He didn't have time to scramble. It was a missed blocking assignment.

Actually it didn't count the one as I'm talking about as a sack since he got back to the line but it might aswell have been.

[Saul Good]

Bullshit.

Charlie Whitehurst was just 14-21 with 215 yards, 2TD's and 1 int.

THAT I'd take.

Those numbers are no better than Cassel's today. Congratulations on being willing to accept a game where a QB averaged more than 10 yards per attempt. That would only be 15% higher than the best season in NFL history, so it's good to know that you'd "take" it, though.

[DaneMcCloud]

Wow, dane making shit up. Who'd a thunk it.

You should really go professional with this being a fucking lying asshole thing.

And you should seek therapy for being such a cunt

[Tiger's Fan]

That's fine.

Just like it's fine for me to not reasonably expect the "switch" to be magically flipped come September 13th.

Why waste your time? I mean you've obviously already made up your mind, and you haven't even watched the game. Seems like a waste to me.

[Titty Meat]

No shit? I didn't watch the game and I'd read reports that he wouldn't play until week one.

My bad. But what a badass.

Yea he is. So is Julian Edelman how the fuck did we not draft him and instead got a guy like Quinten Lawrence? He might be the worst NFL player i've ever seen.

[DaneMcCloud]

Those numbers are no better than Cassel's today.

What? How is 14-21, 2 TD's and 214 yard (and the game isn't even over) BETTER than 14-19 125 1 TD?

Congratulations on being willing to accept a game where a QB averaged more than 10 yards per attempt. That would only be 15% higher than the best season in NFL history, so it's good to know that you'd "take" it, though.

Again, missing the point.

[Saul Good]

Actually it didn't count the one as I'm talking about as a sack since he got back to the line but it might aswell have been.

Then it was slightly more effective than throwing the ball away. THAT is your beef? I'm pretty sure this team has bigger problems than the way Matt Cassel played today.

[petegz28]

And if the offensive line were better! And if we had a decent running game!

I think we do have a decent running game.

[OnTheWarpath15]

No, this shit about Cassel sucks so he has to dink and dunk. I'm sayin Brady does the same thing.


And I already explained I mistaked you and Dane. But lets not beat around the bush I see nowhere in here where you said Cassel played good or even average tonight.

Brady DOESN'T do the same thing.

Brady has shown he's capable of throwing the deep ball, and it keeps defenses honest.

Not to mention that Brady can actually complete a respectable amount of passes over 10 yards, something Cassel cannot.

I've said I haven't seen the game, and won't until Monday or Tuesday.

But leading a team to 10 points against one of the worst defenses in the league doesn't inspire confidence regardless of the stat line, IMO.

So he "looked good" completing passes under 10 yards.

Shouldn't EVERY QB look good doing that?

This is the fucking big leagues, FFS.

[DeezNutz]

I think we do have a decent running game.

Much better than decent in the final 8 games, which was my point.

[milkman]

Those numbers are no better than Cassel's today. Congratulations on being willing to accept a game where a QB averaged more than 10 yards per attempt. That would only be 15% higher than the best season in NFL history, so it's good to know that you'd "take" it, though.

14/21 215 2 1 are no better than
14/19 125 1 0?

Okay.

[Saul Good]

All I know is that I sure as **** wouldn't want that retard Sanchez. 1.2 yards per pass? LMAO

Sanchez who? Didn't you hear that Clausen went #1 in the CP mock?

[Tiger's Fan]

No shit? I didn't watch the game and I'd read reports that he wouldn't play until week one.

My bad. But what a badass.

Danes MO.

"Oops, my bad."

"Guess I'll just hope no one else calls me out on the other drivel I spew."

[Titty Meat]

Brady DOESN'T do the same thing.

Brady has shown he's capable of throwing the deep ball, and it keeps defenses honest.

Not to mention that Brady can actually complete a respectable amount of passes over 10 yards, something Cassel cannot.

I've said I haven't seen the game, and won't until Monday or Tuesday.

But leading a team to 10 points against one of the worst defenses in the league doesn't inspire confidence regardless of the stat line, IMO.

So he "looked good" completing passes under 10 yards.

Shouldn't EVERY QB look good doing that?

This is the ****ing big leagues, FFS.

OTW how good was Brady throwing the ball downfield his first few years? I'm not saying Cassel will be Brady because he doesn't have the other attributes. I do think Cassel can be a guy who will be able to move the ball and not embarrass us.


OTW I guess what we look for in a QB is different. Cassel was able to move the offense, for once he actually looked like he was in control. He changed a few calls at the line, didn't hold the ball as much, threw sharpe passes. I was very please with Cassel tonight.

[Mecca]

Then it was slightly more effective than throwing the ball away. THAT is your beef? I'm pretty sure this team has bigger problems than the way Matt Cassel played today.

It happened on a 3rd down...you really shouldn't do either of those things on 3rd down.

[DaneMcCloud]

Danes MO.

"Oops, my bad."

"Guess I'll just hope no one else calls me out on the other drivel I spew."

Just shut fuck up you stupid fucking cunt.

So what's your take, Cuntbag? Or are you just here to flip people shit, you motherfucking scum of the earth jizz mopping son of a fucking whore?

[DeezNutz]

It happened on a 3rd down...you really shouldn't do either of those things on 3rd down.

It was the smart play. And Trent Green loved it, too.

[petegz28]

Much better than decent in the final 8 games, which was my point.

One thing we obviously are going to see more of this year we saw little of last year is the play action pass.


Look it, guys, this is a Marty-ball team as far as being a possesion team. We are not going to be the Vermeil Chiefs. We are going to dink, dunk, take what the defense gives us and run the ball. And hopefully play good defense.

Special teams are going to be a significant part in the success of the team this year. I think with the addition of Arenas and faster players on special teams, coupled with Colquitt and Succop our average field position will be much better this year on both sides of the ball and hopefull that translates into better perfomance on both sides of the ball.

[Saul Good]

What? How is 14-21, 2 TD's and 214 yard (and the game isn't even over) BETTER than 14-19 125 1 TD?



Again, missing the point.

His completion percentage is lower, and he turned the ball over. He threw for a few more yards (on more attempts), and he threw a pic. It's a solid game, but I'll take fewer yards and one less touchdown in trade for a pic.

As far as missing the point goes, I'm pretty sure that's you. Of course you'll take a game where the QB averaged more yards per attempt than any QB has ever averaged for an entire NFL season. It's like saying that you'd accept a game from a baseball player who homered or a soccer player who scored a goal. It means nothing.

[dirk digler]

I'll wait until the real games are played to analyze the offense.

Me too.

[Mecca]

It was the smart play. And Trent Green loved it, too.

Well he's working for the Chiefs so I'm sure he did.

Someone seriously needs to explain to Cassel that he is not Mike Vick so he needs to stop thinking he's going to scramble around for big yards.

[DaneMcCloud]

His completion percentage is lower, and he turned the ball over. He threw for a few more yards (on more attempts), and he threw a pic. It's a solid game, but I'll take fewer yards and one less touchdown in trade for a pic.

As far as missing the point goes, I'm pretty sure that's you. Of course you'll take a game where the QB averaged more yards per attempt than any QB has ever averaged for an entire NFL season. It's like saying that you'd accept a game from a baseball player who homered or a soccer player who scored a goal. It means nothing.

It's half a fucking game against a team that went 3-13 last year. In the end, the Chiefs lost and they were only tied at the half.

Let's not turn an otherwise average performance by the offense into a game that makes the record books.

[Mecca]

His completion percentage is lower, and he turned the ball over. He threw for a few more yards (on more attempts), and he threw a pic. It's a solid game, but I'll take fewer yards and one less touchdown in trade for a pic.

As far as missing the point goes, I'm pretty sure that's you. Of course you'll take a game where the QB averaged more yards per attempt than any QB has ever averaged for an entire NFL season. It's like saying that you'd accept a game from a baseball player who homered or a soccer player who scored a goal. It means nothing.

He has nearly 100 more yards on the same number of completions...when you are actually throwing down the field it generally leads to a lower completion percentage unless your QB is a freak of nature.

[DeezNutz]

Was it a pick-6? Otherwise, you're good with taking points off the board and sacrificing 89 yards for a 74% completion percentage compared to 67%?

[Saul Good]

It happened on a 3rd down...you really shouldn't do either of those things on 3rd down.

You shouldn't take sacks or throw incompletions on third down. That's like saying you should make every putt on Sundays. It's a nice thought, but nobody has an 18 putt round.

[notorious]

Special teams are going to be a significant part in the success of the team this year.

Yep.


Special teams have a larger effect on winning and losing than most people realize.

[DeezNutz]

Well he's working for the Chiefs so I'm sure he did.

Someone seriously needs to explain to Cassel that he is not Mike Vick so he needs to stop thinking he's going to scramble around for big yards.

Being a smartass.

Green, in a professional manner, ripped his ass.

[Saul Good]

It's half a ****ing game against a team that went 3-13 last year. In the end, the Chiefs lost and they were only tied at the half.

Let's not turn an otherwise average performance by the offense into a game that makes the record books.

You're the one who called it "****ing pathetic". Is your back getting sore from moving the goalposts?

[OnTheWarpath15]

One thing we obviously are going to see more of this year we saw little of last year is the play action pass.


Look it, guys, this is a Marty-ball team as far as being a possesion team. We are not going to be the Vermeil Chiefs. We are going to dink, dunk, take what the defense gives us and run the ball. And hopefully play good defense.

Special teams are going to be a significant part in the success of the team this year. I think with the addition of Arenas and faster players on special teams, coupled with Colquitt and Succop our average field position will be much better this year on both sides of the ball and hopefull that translates into better perfomance on both sides of the ball.

And there's where you're missing the boat.

That phrase is usually used in conjunction with a team that has some downfield ability. Opposing defenses are concerned about giving up the big play, so they allow the soft stuff underneath.

That won't be the case with this offense.

If defenses are smart, they'll keep all 11 players within a 15 yard box, knowing we don't have a QB that can make them pay for playing tight to the LOS.

[Mecca]

Being a smartass.

Green, in a professional manner, ripped his ass.

Ah I had the commentary down, the guy who partners with Green makes me want to strangle him.

[petegz28]

Brady DOESN'T do the same thing.

Brady has shown he's capable of throwing the deep ball, and it keeps defenses honest.

Not to mention that Brady can actually complete a respectable amount of passes over 10 yards, something Cassel cannot.

I've said I haven't seen the game, and won't until Monday or Tuesday.

But leading a team to 10 points against one of the worst defenses in the league doesn't inspire confidence regardless of the stat line, IMO.

So he "looked good" completing passes under 10 yards.

Shouldn't EVERY QB look good doing that?

This is the ****ing big leagues, FFS.

Brady threw all of 6 passes more for 20+ yards than Cassel did last year and with 100 more attempts.

Brady threw all of 4 more for 40+ yards than Cassel did last year, again with an even 100 more attempts.


Sorry, I misspoke, he had he had 72 more attempts

[petegz28]

And there's where you're missing the boat.

That phrase is usually used in conjunction with a team that has some downfield ability. Opposing defenses are concerned about giving up the big play, so they allow the soft stuff underneath.

That won't be the case with this offense.

If defenses are smart, they'll keep all 11 players within a 15 yard box, knowing we don't have a QB that can make them pay for playing tight to the LOS.

Out of all the years Marty took us to the playoffs what deep threat outside of maybe Willie Davis did we ever have?

And how did JC get over 1,000 yards last year? Were defenses just dumb? I mean, it was the same Matt Cassel at QB.

[Titty Meat]

It's half a ****ing game against a team that went 3-13 last year. In the end, the Chiefs lost and they were only tied at the half.

Let's not turn an otherwise average performance by the offense into a game that makes the record books.

They moved the ball pretty much at will though had Jones not fumbled I think they get points on that drive. Flowers made a stupid play thats 10 points there they just got to clean up things like that.

[milkman]

His completion percentage is lower, and he turned the ball over. He threw for a few more yards (on more attempts), and he threw a pic. It's a solid game, but I'll take fewer yards and one less touchdown in trade for a pic.

As far as missing the point goes, I'm pretty sure that's you. Of course you'll take a game where the QB averaged more yards per attempt than any QB has ever averaged for an entire NFL season. It's like saying that you'd accept a game from a baseball player who homered or a soccer player who scored a goal. It means nothing.

He threw a pick against a better defense.

He also threw for another TD, and the ability to get the ball downfield gives you a better chance to succeed in the short passing game, not only to complete those passes, but to give your play makers the opportunity to turn little passes into big plays.

If you can't stretch the field, defenses can just pack everything in close.

[dirk digler]

It's half a fucking game against a team that went 3-13 last year. In the end, the Chiefs lost and they were only tied at the half.

Let's not turn an otherwise average performance by the offense into a game that makes the record books.

It is also a preseason game that doesn't mean shit either way. People should save the drama for the Regular Season.

[-King-]

How many yards do you guys (OTW, Dane, Mecca), think Cassel should have in the air per pass vs. after the catch?

[DeezNutz]

Brady threw all of 6 passes more for 20+ yards than Cassel did last year and with 100 more attempts.

Brady threw all of 4 more for 40+ yards than Cassel did last year, again with an even 100 more attempts.

Great start.

How do the two compare on passes between 11-20 yards, specifically with respect to completion percentage?

P.S.:

1/46
44/46

[OnTheWarpath15]

It's half a fucking game against a team that went 3-13 last year. In the end, the Chiefs lost and they were only tied at the half.

Let's not turn an otherwise average performance by the offense into a game that makes the record books.

But if you take this 2 quarter, preseason masterpiece against one of the worst teams in the league and average it out over all 16 regular season games (hilarious) we have ourselves a franchise QB.

[Titty Meat]

Ah I had the commentary down, the guy who partners with Green makes me want to strangle him.


ROFL He's the Mizzou play by play guy

[notorious]

It is also a preseason game that doesn't mean shit either way. People should save the drama for the Regular Season.

I am afraid a lot of posters are headed for a burnout before week 10.

[Mecca]

Out of all the years Marty took us to the playoffs what deep threat outside of maybe Willie Davis did we ever have?

And how did JC get over 1,000 yards last year? Were defenses just dumb? I mean, it was the same Matt Cassel at QB.

This defense doesn't sniff that defenses ass and that teams passing game was it's weak link so why would you remotely go to that?

[Saul Good]

He has nearly 100 more yards on the same number of completions...when you are actually throwing down the field it generally leads to a lower completion percentage unless your QB is a freak of nature.

The INT is a much bigger deal than the completion percentage. He threw one more TD and one more INT. I'm not willing to add one TD at the expense of adding an INT. A solid QB should be 2:1. A great QB should be 3:1. The difference between Whitehurst and Cassel in this case was 1:1. No thanks. With the additional yardage, I'll call it a push. They both had outstanding numbers.

[BryanBusby]

It's half a ****ing game against a team that went 3-13 last year.
Who gives a fuck what the Bucs went a season ago? This league changes too fast.

Not that I'm trying to support the Cassel ballwashers.

[DaneMcCloud]

You're the one who called it "****ing pathetic". Is your back getting sore from moving the goalposts?

No, I referred to the whole team performance as pathetic, not Cassel.

There have been people predicting that the Chiefs would go 3-0 to start the season, among other stupid shit. This team, in year two under Haley, looks absolutely no different than in year one. The defense is pushed around, the offensive line is poor at pass blocking and the QB is average at best.

The strength of the team is the running backs, WR's and special teams. The rest of the team, especially the front seven, are well below average.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Out of all the years Marty took us to the playoffs what deep threat outside of maybe Willie Davis did we ever have?

And how did JC get over 1,000 yards last year? Were defenses just dumb? I mean, it was the same Matt Cassel at QB.

Wow, your expectations are lower than I thought.

Out of all those years Marty took us to the playoffs, how many games did we win in the postseason?

Not many. Because that kind of offense doesn't fucking work in the playoffs.

For all the bitching people did about Martyball, people sure seem accepting of the 2010 version.

[milkman]

Out of all the years Marty took us to the playoffs what deep threat outside of maybe Willie Davis did we ever have?

And how did JC get over 1,000 yards last year? Were defenses just dumb? I mean, it was the same Matt Cassel at QB.

And how many times did Marty's Chiefs, sans Montana, score more than 10 points in the playoffs

[DeezNutz]

The INT is a much bigger deal than the completion percentage. He threw one more TD and one more INT. I'm not willing to add one TD at the expense of adding an INT. A solid QB should be 2:1. A great QB should be 3:1. The difference between Whitehurst and Cassel in this case was 1:1. No thanks. With the additional yardage, I'll call it a push. They both had outstanding numbers.

Herm?

[Mecca]

How many yards do you guys (OTW, Dane, Mecca), think Cassel should have in the air per pass vs. after the catch?

All I'm asking for is some intermediate passing with a deep shot here and there, you can't have everything in this 7 yard bubble.

[dirk digler]

If defenses are smart, they'll keep all 11 players within a 15 yard box, knowing we don't have a QB that can make them pay for playing tight to the LOS.

I think this where Moeki (if he can stay healthy) is really going to help because he can get over the top in the middle and make some big plays.

[Saul Good]

But if you take this 2 quarter, preseason masterpiece against one of the worst teams in the league and average it out over all 16 regular season games (hilarious) we have ourselves a franchise QB.

Nobody is saying that. What people are saying (and by "people", I mean Dane) is that it was "****ing pathetic". It wasn't pathetic. He played great, and I hope he plays this well all season.

[OnTheWarpath15]

They moved the ball pretty much at will though had Jones not fumbled I think they get points on that drive. Flowers made a stupid play thats 10 points there they just got to clean up things like that.

So fumbles and stupid plays don't count?

Hell, if we don't fumble, throw INT's and have bad tackling, we could have been a decent team last year.

ROFL

[petegz28]

Great start.

How do the two compare on passes between 11-20 yards, specifically with respect to completion percentage?

P.S.:

1/46
44/46

You make me dfend Cassel and I should smite you for such. Brady has the luxury of WR's who actually catch the ball.

[Mecca]

Matt Cassel should have to do this drill everyday...wonder how long it would take him to get it...

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[OnTheWarpath15]

Great start.

How do the two compare on passes between 11-20 yards, specifically with respect to completion percentage?

P.S.:

1/46
44/46

Yeah, funny how he jumped straight to 20+ yards.

[dirk digler]

I am afraid a lot of posters are headed for a burnout before week 10.

At this rate it is going to be Week 4 of the Preseason.

[DaneMcCloud]

Who gives a fuck what the Bucs went a season ago? This league changes too fast.

Not that I'm trying to support the Cassel ballwashers.

Do you know anything about that team?

Are you proclaiming that the youngest team in the league that added virtually no free agents and added players through the draft has drastically improved over the course of training camp and two preseason games?

[milkman]

The INT is a much bigger deal than the completion percentage. He threw one more TD and one more INT. I'm not willing to add one TD at the expense of adding an INT. A solid QB should be 2:1. A great QB should be 3:1. The difference between Whitehurst and Cassel in this case was 1:1. No thanks. With the additional yardage, I'll call it a push. They both had outstanding numbers.

So 7 points is just as good as 14.

[notorious]

I think this where Moeki (if he can stay healthy) is really going to help because he can get over the top in the middle and make some big plays.

I would love to see that seam pass to a trailing TE. That play is a thing of beauty when done correctly.


Dallas has mastered it, and every time I see Witten wide open running down the middle of the field I smile a little.

[Saul Good]

No, I referred to the whole team performance as pathetic, not Cassel.

There have been people predicting that the Chiefs would go 3-0 to start the season, among other stupid shit. This team, in year two under Haley, looks absolutely no different than in year one. The defense is pushed around, the offensive line is poor at pass blocking and the QB is average at best.

The strength of the team is the running backs, WR's and special teams. The rest of the team, especially the front seven, are well below average.

You keep saying that the defense was pushed around. They held the Bucs to a FG after we fumbled in their territory, and Flowers blew a tackle that turned into a 57 yard TD. That was it for the scoring in the first half. There was no getting pushed around.

Also, our secondary is not anything resembling "well below average".

[TEX]

Who gives a **** what the Bucs went a season ago? This league changes too fast.

Not that I'm trying to support the Cassel ballwashers.

The League doesn't change too fast for the Chiefs. They're still a bad team.

[petegz28]

I think this where Moeki (if he can stay healthy) is really going to help because he can get over the top in the middle and make some big plays.

Here's what I think, coaches aren't going to showboat their playbook and waste their starters on plays in games that don't even have a game plan, let alone count in the record books.


Call me silly.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Herm?

LMAO

The use of "great" and "outstanding" has me laughing so hard I'm about to puke.

[milkman]

You make me dfend Cassel and I should smite you for such. Brady has the luxury of WR's who actually catch the ball.

Jesus, the drops don't account for a difference that pronounced.

[DaneMcCloud]

Nobody is saying that. What people are saying (and by "people", I mean Dane) is that it was "****ing pathetic". It wasn't pathetic. He played great, and I hope he plays this well all season.

You're a fucking idiot. Once more, since you obviously can't read:

I'll need to watch this game Monday on the NFL network instead of on a shitty computer, but I disagree completely with the idea that the Chiefs looked "great" on offense or defense.

Arenas set up the first touchdown and gave the Chiefs a VERY short field in which to score. After that, they couldn't do shit. The defense hardly pressured Tampa Bay's SECOND string QB and from what I could tell, Cadillac Williams barely played.

The Bucs passing game consistently carved up the Chiefs defense for big chunks in the first half. Mike Williams was catching everything in sight (including burning Flowers for a huge TD) but also on crossing and sideline patterns. Michael Clayton chipped in for a few nice passes and there was little to no pressure on Josh Johnson. In the few cases there was pressure Johnson either took off for a big gainer or step up into the pocket to make his throws.

Johnson is a second year, 5th rounder that made the Chiefs defense look as bad as normal. Keep in mind, this is a Tampa team that won three fucking games last year and the Chiefs starters and backups failed to beat the Bucs starters and backups.

IMO, it was fucking pathetic.

[petegz28]

So 7 points is just as good as 14.

Depends. Do we get an extra W for beating a team 14-3 as opposed to 7-3?

[notorious]

The League doesn't change too fast for the Chiefs. They're still a bad team.

LOL


Touche.

[BryanBusby]

Do you know anything about that team?

Are you proclaiming that the youngest team in the league that added virtually no free agents and added players through the draft has drastically improved over the course of training camp and two preseason games?

Did you actually watch them play or are you just talking out of your ass?

[DeezNutz]

So 7 points is just as good as 14.

Yes, because INTs cause a tiny bit of urine to escape from my manhood.

Did this INT in question lead to points? If not, this is the most insane exchange possible.

[Direckshun]

I would like to take a moment to introduce Tom Brady's name into this thread.

[DaneMcCloud]

Did you actually watch them play or are you just talking out of your ass?

Did you?

So far, I'll you've done is question me. So what's your fucking problem, Dickhead?

[notorious]

I would like to take a moment to introduce Tom Brady's name into this thread.

Who?

[petegz28]

Jesus, the drops don't account for a difference that pronounced.

Do I need to thrown in the lack of blocking and anything that resembled a running game for 8 games???

Do you want on the smite list too??????:evil:

[Titty Meat]

So fumbles and stupid plays don't count?

Hell, if we don't fumble, throw INT's and have bad tackling, we could have been a decent team last year.

ROFL

I'm not saying they don't count what i'm saying is I never have seen Flowers make a stupid play like that before and I think he wouldn't do that if the game actually meant shit.


Come on Maaaaan. This team is winning 6 reguardless maybe we shouldn't tear into eachother too much.

[DeezNutz]

Jesus, the drops don't account for a difference that pronounced.

No shit.

Offensive line, however...FUCK.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I think this where Moeki (if he can stay healthy) is really going to help because he can get over the top in the middle and make some big plays.

That would help, provided we had a QB that could get him the ball.

[DeezNutz]

This team is winning 6 reguardless maybe we shouldn't tear into eachother too much.

Not unless we get a better one of these.

[milkman]

Depends. Do we get an extra W for beating a team 14-3 as opposed to 7-3?

Two TD passes wins the first half 14-10.

With only one, we come away tied.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Nobody is saying that. What people are saying (and by "people", I mean Dane) is that it was "****ing pathetic". It wasn't pathetic. He played great, and I hope he plays this well all season.

10 points against one of the shittiest defenses in the league is "great?"

Wow, some of you have lowered your expectations to ridiculous levels.

[petegz28]

No shit.

Offensive line, however...****.

Exaclty. Brady was sacked 16 times

Cassel was sacked 42

[dirk digler]

I would love to see that seam pass to a trailing TE. That play is a thing of beauty when done correctly.


Dallas has mastered it, and every time I see Witten wide open running down the middle of the field I smile a little.

They have run it quite a bit up in TC. I went up there for the night practice and Cassel made a beautiful throw (15-20yds)to Moeki over his shoulder going right up the middle. If the guy can just stay healthy I think he can be a really good player.

[Saul Good]

Herm?

Maybe you'll take a season like what Jay Cutler had last year where he threw for 27 TDS and 26 INTs, but that doesn't interest me. Cassel threw 1 TD and no INTs in one half of play. That's just about perfect.

[Titty Meat]

Not unless we get a better one of these.

What can I say i'm lazy.

[DeezNutz]

Exaclty. Brady was sacked 16 times

Cassel was sacked 42

Same offensive line?

I'll wait like Cassel while you look up the personnel packages.

[milkman]

Do I need to thrown in the lack of blocking and anything that resembled a running game for 8 games???

Do you want on the smite list too??????:evil:

Do we have to point out to you that Cassel actually regressed even when the O-Line and the running game improved, again.

[Mecca]

Exaclty. Brady was sacked 16 times

Cassel was sacked 42

Cassel got sacked that many times with the same line dude...he takes a shit load of sacks, it's as much him as the line.

[DaneMcCloud]

10 points against one of the shittiest defenses in the league is "great?"

Wow, some of you have lowered your expectations to ridiculous levels.

I think the Chiefs have been losing for so long that this is where the bar has been set.

Otherwise, I can't figure out for the life of me how 2TD's and 248 yards is "perfect", especially when you lose or tie.

[Titty Meat]

10 points against one of the shittiest defenses in the league is "great?"

Wow, some of you have lowered your expectations to ridiculous levels.

Do you wanna make a bet the offense will be in the top half of the league this year?

[Mecca]

Maybe you'll take a season like what Jay Cutler had last year where he threw for 27 TDS and 26 INTs, but that doesn't interest me. Cassel threw 1 TD and no INTs in one half of play. That's just about perfect.

2 TD's a game is not going to win many games.

[Saul Good]

So 7 points is just as good as 14.

It is if you threw away points on offense and gave the other team points of their own because of the INT. Go ahead and drool over Jay Cutler's 2009 highlights. He threw a bunch of TDs. The Bears must have been pretty good. Certainly better than if they had a guy who only threw 1 TD in a half with no INTs.

[milkman]

Maybe you'll take a season like what Jay Cutler had last year where he threw for 27 TDS and 26 INTs, but that doesn't interest me. Cassel threw 1 TD and no INTs in one half of play. That's just about perfect.

No, but I'd take a two to one ratio.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Matt Cassel should have to do this drill everyday...wonder how long it would take him to get it...

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Cassel could spend his entire life trying that and not succeed.

And on a side note, have you seen that "vanilla" offense that GB has been running in the PS?

[DeezNutz]

It is if you threw away points on offense and gave the other team points of their own because of the INT. Go ahead and drool over Jay Cutler's 2009 highlights. He threw a bunch of TDs. The Bears must have been pretty good. Certainly better than if they had a guy who only threw 1 TD in a half with no INTs.

Were you talking about goalposts with other posters? And now you're using Jay Cutler?

[Mecca]

How do Whitehurst's numbers translate to 1-1? His are 2-1 so if you're going to point to Cutlers numbers than Whitehurst's would be 28-14.

[petegz28]

Do we have to point out to you that Cassel actually regressed even when the O-Line and the running game improved, again.

I am not saying he didn't. He struggled last year and I am not a Cassel fan. But I also am not so unobjective to realize some intangibles that went against him as well as the entire offense...

1. It was a new system for him going into camp
2. It was an even newer system going into the regular season
3. He got little help from his 0-line
4. He got little help from his WR's

That takes a toll on anyone save a Favre type


I remember Trent Green's first year here and everyone was cursing him cause he sucked.

I am not a Cassel fan, but he is the QB and I hope to see improvment this year with it being his 2nd year.

[Mecca]

Cassel could spend his entire life trying that and not succeed.

And on a side note, have you seen that "vanilla" offense that GB has been running in the PS?

Opening your game with a 56 yard strike to Greg Jennings is ho hum vanilla shit in the world of Aaron Rodgers.

[DeezNutz]

Have asked this twice now, but did the INT lead to points or not?

[-King-]

2 TD's a game is not going to win many games.

2 TDs a game is 32 TDs in a year. If you wouldn't take that well...

[dirk digler]

Cassel could spend his entire life trying that and not succeed.

And on a side note, have you seen that "vanilla" offense that GB has been running in the PS?

I watched the first half of that game tonight and man the Packers pass offense is awesome. Though the Seahawks weren't bad either and neither team's D showed up.

[petegz28]

Cassel got sacked that many times with the same line dude...he takes a shit load of sacks, it's as much him as the line.

I agree that he holds the ball too long. Which is one reason I don't like him.

[DeezNutz]

I am not saying he didn't. He struggled last year and I am not a Cassel fan. But I also am not so unobjective to realize some intangibles that went against him as well as the entire offense...

1. It was a new system for him going into camp
2. It was an even newer system going into the regular season
3. He got little help from his 0-line
4. He got little help from his WR's

That takes a toll on anyone save a Favre type


I remember Trent Green's first year here and everyone was cursing him cause he sucked.

I am not a Cassel fan, but he is the QB and I hope to see improvment this year with it being his 2nd year.

I should hope so. After cleaning 'em like that, you should have a vested interest. :evil:

[Mecca]

2 TDs a game is 32 TDs in a year. If you wouldn't take that well...

But he only lead the 1 scoring drive in the half so you'd probably have to mix that with some rushing TD's lowering the total. If you were being realistic about it anyway.

[petegz28]

2 TDs a game is 32 TDs in a year. If you wouldn't take that well...

The #1 QB threw 34 last year.

[Titty Meat]

Have asked this twice now, but did the INT lead to points or not?

Forget the INT.


You want to square up tough guy?

[milkman]

Have asked this twice now, but did the INT lead to points or not?

Because of this (stupid) debate, I haven't paid attention to the game, so I'm afraid I can't answer that.

[Mecca]

I watched the first half of that game tonight and man the Packers pass offense is awesome. Though the Seahawks weren't bad either and neither team's D showed up.

Mike Williams is making a comeback up there, he actually looks ok.

[Coach]

Have asked this twice now, but did the INT lead to points or not?

Which INT are you referring to? The Palko INT?

[Saul Good]

10 points against one of the shittiest defenses in the league is "great?"

Wow, some of you have lowered your expectations to ridiculous levels.

I didn't say that the offense as a whole was great. I said that 1 TD, no INTs, 125 yards passing, 80% completions, and a QB rating = Matt Cassel played great.

I don't care what team you pull for, if God himself offers your coach before a game that your QB will throw 2 TDs, no INTs, 250 yards, complete 80% of his passes, and have a rating of 108, the coach will take it 100 times out of 100. When your QB is Matt Cassel, you take it 200 times out of 100.

[petegz28]

I should hope so. After cleaning 'em like that, you should have a vested interest. :evil:

You are about to taste my pain....

[OnTheWarpath15]

But he only lead the 1 scoring drive in the half so you'd probably have to mix that with some rushing TD's lowering the total. If you were being realistic about it anyway.

Realistic?

In a thread where 10 points and what would amount to 250 yards is being considered "outstanding?"

[milkman]

The #1 QB threw 34 last year.

But he also threw 16 picks, which is nearly that 2:1 ratio that Saul wants no part of.

[Titty Meat]

Mike Williams is making a comeback up there, he actually looks ok.


Yup and Terrence Nunn is going to make the Bucs team thanks to Travis Daniels stupid ass.

[DaneMcCloud]

I remember Trent Green's first year here and everyone was cursing him cause he sucked.


The only thing that Matt Cassel and Trent Green have in common is that they both have played quarterback for the Chiefs.

[Saul Good]

No, but I'd take a two to one ratio.

The difference between Cassel and Whitehurst was 1:1.

[DeezNutz]

Because of this (stupid) debate, I haven't paid attention to the game, so I'm afraid I can't answer that.

Seattle game, Coach.

Because if the INT didn't lead to points, this is the most insanely ridiculous argument that I've seen on this site in some time.

[Mecca]

Realistic?

In a thread where 10 points and what would amount to 250 yards is being considered "outstanding?"

Realism is frowned upon when the Chiefs are looking shockingly like the same team they were last year....I may have to review and pick 3 or 4 wins.

[Coach]

Seattle game, Coach.

Because if the INT didn't lead to points, this is the most insanely ridiculous argument that I've seen on this site in some time.

Oh, the GB/Seattle game?

[petegz28]

The only thing that Matt Cassel and Trent Green have in common is that they both have played quarterback for the Chiefs.

Well, Dane, it may come as a surprise but most people in a new system generally struggle in the first year and improve in the second. I am hoping that falls true for Cassel. WTF else do we have?

[dirk digler]

Mike Williams is making a comeback up there, he actually looks ok.

The change of scenary and his old coach has done wonders for him.

On side note picking DJ over Rodgers may have been of the stupidest draft decisions in KC Chiefs history

[Coach]

And just to be clear, Flynn throwing the INT or Whitehurst's INT?

[BryanBusby]

Did you?

So far, I'll you've done is question me. So what's your ****ing problem, Dickhead?

Yeah I actually have. I see a Bucs team that is now in year two of a complete overhaul and in my view is already much further ahead of rebuilding a good team than the Chiefs that have been rebuilding for god knows how long now.

You're so edgy with the name calling though.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Yay, we suck.

[DeezNutz]

And just to be clear, Flynn throwing the INT or Whitehurst's INT?

Whitehurst's.

[Mecca]

The change of scenary and his old coach has done wonders for him.

On side note picking DJ over Rodgers may have been of the stupidest draft decisions in KC Chiefs history

Yet if we had taken Rodgers basically this entire forum would have gone apeshit.

[Saul Good]

2 TD's a game is not going to win many games.

3 players threw for as many as 2 TDs a game (32 for a season) last season. Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, and Drew Brees threw for 33, 33, and 34 respectively. They led the 3 best teams in the NFL last year.

[Coach]

Whitehurst's.

3 points. 51 yard FG was the result of the turnover.

[-King-]

Seattle game, Coach.

Because if the INT didn't lead to points, this is the most insanely ridiculous argument that I've seen on this site in some time.

Yes, it did lead to points.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I didn't say that the offense as a whole was great. I said that 1 TD, no INTs, 125 yards passing, 80% completions, and a QB rating = Matt Cassel played great.

I don't care what team you pull for, if God himself offers your coach before a game that your QB will throw 2 TDs, no INTs, 250 yards, complete 80% of his passes, and have a rating of 108, the coach will take it 100 times out of 100. When your QB is Matt Cassel, you take it 200 times out of 100.

Then that couch won't be coaching for long with those expectations.

Every QB in the league should be able to duplicate that when they refuse to throw the ball more than 10 yards in the air.

Giving Cassel credit for something this basic would be like giving an Olympic diver perfect 10's for doing a swan dive. Or giving a gymnast a 10 for doing a somersault.

What he's doing isn't difficult for even a shitty NFL QB.

But go ahead and enjoy those lowered expectations.

[Titty Meat]

Yeah I actually have. I see a Bucs team that is now in year two of a complete overhaul and in my view is already much further ahead of rebuilding a good team than the Chiefs that have been rebuilding for god knows how long now.

You're so edgy with the name calling though.

Thats scary to think the Bucs are ahead of us in rebuilding. Its true and the sad thing is I thought Dominik would be a ****ing joke of a gm.

[DeezNutz]

3 points. 51 yard FG was the result of the turnover.

Yes, it did lead to points.

Thanks, fellas.

[-King-]

3 players threw for as many as 2 TDs a game (32 for a season) last season. Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, and Drew Brees threw for 33, 33, and 34 respectively. They led the 3 best teams in the NFL last year.

32 TDs a year won't win many games....

[Saul Good]

How do Whitehurst's numbers translate to 1-1? His are 2-1 so if you're going to point to Cutlers numbers than Whitehurst's would be 28-14.

The difference between Cassel's numbers and Whitehurst's numbers is 1:1. If you offer a coach the option of his QB throwing one more TD but also throwing one more INT, your coach is going to say no every time.

[Mecca]

Just remember Rodgers slid through most of the 1st round, I guess all those teams that passed on him knew something we didn't...oh shit nevermind.

[DaneMcCloud]

Well, Dane, it may come as a surprise but most people in a new system generally struggle in the first year and improve in the second. I am hoping that falls true for Cassel. WTF else do we have?

New system? Haley and Weis both run the Erhardt/Perkins system. Same terminology, same everything.

Now, the way the call the game may be different but it's not a new system by any stretch.

And regardless, he's a professional athlete being paid $15 million a year. He played a USC for four years and backed up Brady for another three years.

Making excuses for him is just plain fucking dumb.