Ten Things About Last Night's Game

[gblowfish]

Ten Things About Last Night's Game

10. I really love the new wide screen high def TVs. I've had my Panasonic 50" plasma for about two years now, and I never appreciate it more than I do when its time to settle in and watch a Chiefs game. Last night Mrs. Blowfish and I had a nice steak filet, BBQ shrimp on a skewer, corn on the cob, watermelon, fresh garden salad and home made fudge brownies. Shot of Crown Royal to start, Boulevard Wheat during, Roasterie coffee after. Regardless of what was about to transpire, you gotta love watching pre-season football on a big ass TV in the comfy AC with a big meal and a good adult beverage, kicked back in the leather La-Z-Boy. That's couch potato perfection. I just wish we would actually win one of these practice games every once in a blue moon.

9. Looked like the crowd in Tampa was a bit sparse, lots of empty seats upstairs and in the corners, announced attendance was around 41,000, but it looked smaller than that. I think the rotten economy is really starting to reflect itself around the league. It's hard for a family of four to pay $120 to $400 or more just to watch these guys practice. I also wonder if any Chiefs home games -including the upcoming pre-season games- will be blacked out locally? I haven't heard anything about this Friday's game vs. the Eagles, but I doubt if its a "sellout." Wonder if TV5 will have to buy up the extras to be able to broadcast it? Has there been any discussion about that on the Chiefs Planet this week?

8. No team in the NFL has wasted as many high picks and dollars on the defensive line as the Chiefs. Hali, Dorsey, Jackson all drafted as first round, big bucks D-Lineman. Still, the team has NO SACKS in two games, and no threatening pressure on the line that other teams really worry about. We're getting no inside pass rush, and less than average run defense from these guys. I'm convinced that we should NEVER draft a D-Line player with anything greater than a third round pick. Skill position players are much more critical and valuable with higher picks. Looks like the only way we'll get to the QB this year is by blitzing, and that's going to put a lot of pressure on the D-Backs, which can lead to serious toasting ala Flowers last night.

7. Looks like Studebaker will be a legit player this year. They should have played him more last year. Kendrick Lewis looks like he'll be a starter at safety with Berry. With two rookie starting safeties this year, we'll have some growing pains in pass coverage, but in the long run, we'll have a great solid foundation for a top notch secondary. Chiefs should deal Page right now and wipe him off the books. Derrick Johnson disappeared again last night. Did he have even one tackle?

6. Can Cassel accurately throw a pass over 15 yards? Looks like he's going to be the king of the five and six yard pass again this year. Dink. Dunk. Dink. I know we'll have a bit more speed available if Horne makes the 53 man squad - but can Cassel hit an open receiver over 15 yards? I really question his accuracy. Bowe looked OK last night, he seemed to be all business. Leonard Pope still sucks. He's Morris Stroud with worse hands (if that's possible). Brokieaki needs to get his Iowa ass out off the trainer's table and out on the field. If you can't get on the field, you don't matter.

5. If Cassel gets hurt we're hosed. Brokie is already on the shelf, just two games into pre-season, and this Palko guy is a poor impersonation of Tyler Thigpen. I'd much rather have Thiggy. He's looking pretty decent with Miami right now. Palko did some really stupid stuff last night. He's going to get receivers killed if he doesn't learn to look off a DB. And that series by the goal line at the end of the fourth quarter? Terrible. That's perhaps more on Charlie Weis. 3rd and goal from the two and you pass? Then get Illegal procedure on 4th down to go to 4th and goal from the seven, then you don't even get the pass into the end zone? I know Palko didn't have time to get the ball out under a blitz, but if you're going to dump the ball off short of the end zone, you might as well just kneel on the ball. Same results. Should have rolled him out and given him a pass or run option.

4. Arenas could be a game changer. It makes a world of difference to get a kick return back to the 35 or 40 yard line vs. what we've been getting over the last few years, which is nada. Teams will have to account for him the same way teams have to account for Hester in Chicago or Cribbs in Cleveland. Coaches always say special teams is a third of the game plan. This guy makes that part of the equation relevant again, and makes kick and punt returns exciting to anticipate, like Hall and Vanover used to do.

3. Pioli came on the broadcast in the fourth quarter for a Q and A, just so happened he was on when Leggett got hurt and was laid out on the field. He is SO much NOT Carl Peterson that it's refreshing. I just like his style. He's unassuming, not self promoting, in sort, pretty much the opposite of King Carl. Haley seemed to be on much better behavior last night. At the end the fourth quarter he was giving high fives to his defensive players for getting a three and out on Tampa to get the ball back one last time. He still has a lot of negative body language, where he stands with his arms folded and glowering at players, but he's not going bat-shit crazy with F-Bombs like he did last year. Hopefully he's grown up a bit since last year. We'll see if that holds true once the regular season kicks in.

2. We still aren't winning. I know pre-season doesn't "matter." But I think developing a culture of winning does matter. To turn the team around, you have to expect to win, and have such a distaste for losing that it becomes simply unacceptable. Tampa Bay is not a good team. They''ll probably be one of the worst teams in the NFC this year. Our number one's didn't match up well against their number one's, and most of the first half Tampa was being led by their number two QB.

1. Biggest difference in this game was the same as the last game. Tampa had two sacks, no turnovers, scored TDs. Chiefs had no sacks, fumbled three times, lost one, had two picks, and kicked field goals instead of TDs. We lost many close games last year because we settled for three instead of seven. That was, and is, the difference between winning and losing, and we're still not over that hump yet.

[KCUnited]

Derrick Johnson had 0 tackles.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Great post, George. I enjoyed it thoroughly, and agree whole heartedly.

[Red Brooklyn]

Very nice post.

I didn't watch the game so I don't have anything to add or detract. Just wanted to say it was a good read and I look forward to the next one.

[the Talking Can]

i didn't see much of the game, thanks for the report

[Mr. Flopnuts]

It's so awesome living in a place that I know will have Chiefs games on TV every week. I'm hoping that next year once things get settled for us here, that I'll be buying some season tickets.

[Red Dawg]

I think you are a little rough. Losing a worthless pre season game to TB is meaning less to be pissed about. Oak beat the Cowboys, but hardly means they are better. Our team is in bad shape, no doubt, but they are getting better and will continue to get better. Alot of us on here have forgotten just how much this team was gutted. Scott has had to start alsmostbn completely from cratch. Not a single position was good but TE and maybe Guard when he got here. The one huge mistake Pioli has made in my opinion is T jackson. Bad pick then an it looks like it now.

Just for shits and giggles: Who cares if Matt can throw down the field real great all the time? He needs to hit the open man, not throw int's and move the chains. If he make reads and get first downs I don't care how far the ball is traveling.

[Red Brooklyn]

Sure. Not turning the ball over is more important than throwing a deep ball all the time - or even ever, really. But having a limited QB means having a limited offense. How much do you think we're going to be able to move the chains once defenses realize that we have no deep threat?

[TheGuardian]

Derrick Johnson had 0 tackles.

No wait there are STILL STILL Chief fans who say he's our best linebacker with the most talent and all that horseshit........

[gblowfish]

The thing about DJ is potential. He has shown flashes of brilliance. But his level of play is all over the board. Hard to know what you're gonna get week to week. Derrick Thomas was accused of the same thing, disappearing during playoff games and such.

One other thing I forgot to say was, penalties were down, which was encouraging. We had a couple, the one at the end of the fourth quarter on fourth and goal was a bad one, but overall not a lot of holding in pass protection and such. Of course, we're throwing the ball mostly on a quick three step drop, so we'll have to see if the line can protect on longer routes. Charles got totally blown up trying to block a blitzer in the first half last night, he needs to work on this blitz pickups.

[Deberg_1990]

Its hard to believe the Pioli hasnt drafted a QB in his two drafts. Considering how fragile everyone knew Croyle was......

[Simply Red]

Props, GBlow.

[Red Brooklyn]

I'd say so far Pioli's faith in and/or obsession with Cassel has been his biggest flaw. Cassel might be Pioli's Achilles' heel.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Thanks George, I always enjoy these.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

I'd say so far Pioli's faith in and/or obsession with Cassel has been his biggest flaw. Cassel might be Pioli's Achilles' heel.

What else do you expect Pioli to do. I'm sure that if the Colts offered to trade us Peyton for cassel and 5 draft picks he'd do it. I would have to think we'll be looking QB in next years draft.

[notorious]

What else do you expect Pioli to do. I'm sure that if the Colts offered to trade us Peyton for cassel and 5 draft picks he'd do it. I would have to think we'll be looking QB in next years draft.

Probably.

I hope that Cassel turns the corner and tears it up this year. Even if he does, we need to bring in a future franchise guy and start grooming him.

[Red Brooklyn]

What else do you expect Pioli to do. I'm sure that if the Colts offered to trade us Peyton for cassel and 5 draft picks he'd do it. I would have to think we'll be looking QB in next years draft.

I hope so. There's really nothing Pioli can do at this point. It's his initial love and support that I find suspect.

Even if Cassel puts up fair to good numbers and we win more games, you've gotta think we draft a QB. Right?

[Red Brooklyn]

Probably.

I hope that Cassel turns the corner and tears it up this year. Even if he does, we need to bring in a future franchise guy and start grooming him.

Exactly.

[Goldmember]

Alot of us on here have forgotten just how much this team was gutted. Scott has had to start alsmostbn completely from cratch. Not a single position was good but TE and maybe Guard when he got here.

really???? Jamaal Charles, Flowers, Albert, Pollard (ha, untapped potential), Hali.

Tyson Jackson was a completely brain dead WTF of all time pick. Biggest waste of a #3 pick in Chiefs history.

[boogblaster]

yea that bout said it all .. damit .....

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Jesus, I used to rag on DeBerg....

Wow.

[notorious]

Jesus, I used to rag on DeBerg....

Wow.


The CP member or the QB?


That man brought tears to my eyes on the playaction pass. He was the master of it even with a metal spike jammed in his thumb.

[Rooster]

No wait there are STILL STILL Chief fans who say he's our best linebacker with the most talent and all that horseshit........

I got his jersey when he was drafted so I have to say those things. :(

[gblowfish]

I'll say this for Pioli. At least he went out and got a young, unproven guy and gave him a chance to be the main man.

King Carl was king of the re-treads: Kreig, Bono, DeBerg, Grbac not so good.
Gannon, Montana, Green better results. Still, the Chiefs have never EVER drafted and home-grown developed an elite QB. Even Dawson came from the Cleveland Browns.

I don't know why, but it just seems to be counter to the Chiefs DNA.

[Red Brooklyn]

I'll say this for Pioli. At least he went out and got a young, unproven guy and gave him a chance to be the main man.

King Carl was king of the re-treads: Kreig, Bono, DeBerg, Grbac not so good.
Gannon, Montana, Green better results. Still, the Chiefs have never EVER drafted and home-grown developed an elite QB. Even Dawson came from the Cleveland Browns.

I don't know why, but it just seems to be counter to the Chiefs DNA.

Which is so, so sad. I wonder why that is... and if anyone will ever fix it.

[Boon]

Great job George.
Look forward to more of them.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Which is so, so sad. I wonder why that is... and if anyone will ever fix it.

There is only one option....hire Mecca

[Red Brooklyn]

There is only one option....hire Mecca

LMAO

[KCUnited]

Derrick Johnson had 0 tackles.
Not only that, but he had a Pollard-eque miss tackle at the 11:00 minute mark of the second quarter.

[Demonpenz]

these people suck for the chiefs defense, and a picture of leslie nielson with sunglasses

[gblowfish]

these people suck for the chiefs defense, and a picture of leslie nielson with sunglasses

That's very Madden-esque of you....

[Demonpenz]

10 yard routes max protect

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

The CP member or the QB?


That man brought tears to my eyes on the playaction pass. He was the master of it even with a metal spike jammed in his thumb.

The QB. And Oh, how I now see the error of my youthful ways...

[Renegade]

The one thing I still want to see this team do, is stop the other team on 3rd down. I can't remember how times we had them 3rd and 5+ yards to go, and they convert for 10-15 yards. I think our nickel package is going to struggle again this year, based off what I have seen in the first 2 pre-season games.

[KCUnited]

The one thing I still want to see this team do, is stop the other team on 3rd down. I can't remember how times we had them 3rd and 5+ yards to go, and they convert for 10-15 yards. I think our nickel package is going to struggle again this year, based off what I have seen in the first 2 pre-season games.
While the 2nd half of most preseason games is a clinic on 3 and outs, TB went 5-13 on 3rd down last night at a 38.4% clip.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

10 yard routes max protect


http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv252/raisedonriots/LEFT.jpg

Variations include "right"...and "fumble".

[Jawshco]

Regarding the dink and dunk... I know that having the ability to throw long passes
makes the offense more potent, and keeps opposing defenses on their toes,
but playing dink and dunk (if you're getting consistent 1st downs and TD's)
takes up more clock and keeps our D off the field. I remember that time of possession was a problem with our quick score offense under DV. I know that it's not a
great thing to not being able to throw for more than 10 yards, but this is the only positive I can think of... Chewing up the clock.

[Bowser]

If we keep dinking and dunking come the regular season, then I'll be up in arms.

[CupidStunt]

DL are very valuable and "avoiding" them would be beyond foolish.

This franchise just seems cursed lately.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

DL are very valuable and "avoiding" them would be beyond foolish.

This franchise just seems cursed lately.

Grooming the right young QB and some younger linemen in tandem would begin to alleviate that curse pretty quick.

[Otter]

I have no idea why some of you put so much interest in how Haley handles his players be it yelling, talking or drawing them a picture. A whole lot of successful coaches yelled at their players to get a point across.

It's like some of you are watching "Jersey Shore" then get surprised when Snookie gets drunk, makes a fool of herself then you say "oh no she didn't!" in some kind of feigned surprise that it just happened.

Haley isn't coaching a weight loss class for fat women in their 40s with no self esteem. Go rent a Richard Simmons DVD if that's who you want to watch. He's trying to get FIFTY TWO BOYS in their 20'swho are millionaires with big egos to listen to a plan an win games.

Pioli hired him knowing exactly who he is, let him decapitate someone if he needs to.

sheesh

[Jawshco]

DL are very valuable and "avoiding" them would be beyond foolish.

This franchise just seems cursed lately.

This franchise is snake bitten when it comes to drafting D-linemen. Lately: Sims, Siavi, Tyler, McBride, Dorsey, McGee, & Jackson. That list is scary. Some of those guys should have been good. That's just plain bad luck. Maybe Dorsey will be okay (I didn't list Tamba & JA), but the rest are pretty much busts. But it's not like we haven't tried to draft D-line. We've just chosen poorly and/or had crap luck.

[Buehler445]

Great takes George. I think your comments on losing are particularly on point.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Halfcan]

Sorry but T Jack just flat out sucks-all the talk about him being a block eater-LOL RBs have been pushing him around like a little bitch. Dorsey at least had a few tackles the first game. T Jack is a bust he does not get any pressure up the middle whats so ever. Not sure what we are going to do with this line-but it is pretty obvious teams will run all over us and have plenty of time for their QBs to find open receivers.

I think you nailed it-we will have to blitz a lot to get any pressure at all.

[Halfcan]

This franchise is snake bitten when it comes to drafting D-linemen. Lately: Sims, Siavi, Tyler, McBride, Dorsey, McGee, & Jackson. That list is scary. Some of those guys should have been good. That's just plain bad luck. Maybe Dorsey will be okay (I didn't list Tamba & JA), but the rest are pretty much busts. But it's not like we haven't tried to draft D-line. We've just chosen poorly and/or had crap luck.

:clap:

[Spott]

41,000 was probably the number of tickets sold. I would say there were maybe 30-35 fans there. The stadium was half full at best yesterday and the upper levels were almost completely empty. Saturday's game was my 4th or 5th time to Raymond James and this is the first time I've seen that stadium anything less than 95% full and there was absolutely no crowd noise at all. Most of the locals seemed to have forgotten about the Bucs and the Rays are the new hot ticket.

[Extra Point]

This franchise is snake bitten when it comes to drafting D-linemen. Lately: Sims, Siavi, Tyler, McBride, Dorsey, McGee, & Jackson. That list is scary. Some of those guys should have been good. That's just plain bad luck. Maybe Dorsey will be okay (I didn't list Tamba & JA), but the rest are pretty much busts. But it's not like we haven't tried to draft D-line. We've just chosen poorly and/or had crap luck.

THIS. And a harumph.

[gblowfish]

KC Star Photos from the Game are here:
http://www.kansascity.com/2010/08/21/2166017/chiefs-15-tampa-20.html

[Reerun_KC]

Thing that cracks me up is rich Gannon dunked and d inked his way to a super bowl and an MVP. People here still swallow Gannon balls deep. Next thing you know in Weis pre season offense, Cassel Dinka and dunks and the world is coming to and end. I don't think were going to see the chiefs air it out 20-50 down the field every game. I know it will give the women somethingto bitch about. But they whine and bit h here anyway

[MMXcalibur]

I don't mind the Cassel dinks and dunks as much as others do. If anything, this Chiefs team will have a run first mentality. Hopefully that translates to some manageable third downs that will not ask Cassel to throw it 15-20 yards down the field. Perhaps play action helps open up some receivers deep and gives Cassel a larger window, who knows?

....point is, Cassel is no Peyton Manning, but he's the best we got at the moment and we might as well play to his strengths.

[Tylerthigpen!1!]

I don't see why people get so butthurt about Cassel. The front office didn't like any of the qbs in that years draft so they gave up a second. Big effing deal. The roster before Cassel was void of any qb talent/durability. Did you guys really want to see Brodie go down and have thiggy or Matt G go in? I will not be surprised when they draft a qb in the first round in the next year or two.

[googlegoogle]

We are vanilla. comeon.

[Reerun_KC]

I don't see why people get so butthurt about Cassel. The front office didn't like any of the qbs in that years draft so they gave up a second. Big effing deal. The roster before Cassel was void of any qb talent/durability. Did you guys really want to see Brodie go down and have Thigpen or Matt G go in? I will not be surprised when they draft a qb in the first round in the next year or two.

Cassel is setting the franchise back 20 years... /Hamas

[OnTheWarpath15]

Thing that cracks me up is rich Gannon dunked and d inked his way to a super bowl and an MVP. People here still swallow Gannon balls deep. Next thing you know in Weis pre season offense, Cassel Dinka and dunks and the world is coming to and end. I don't think were going to see the chiefs air it out 20-50 down the field every game. I know it will give the women somethingto bitch about. But they whine and bit h here anyway

My ass.

Gannon completed 57% of his passes thrown 11-20 yards that Super Bowl season, and 50% of his passes thrown 11-30.

Again, this isn't about dinking and dunking.

It's about dinking and dunking because you can't do anything else.

Guys want to bring Brady and Gannon into the discussion, and they look stupid doing so, because both could get the ball downfield accurately when asked - giving the defense something to consider.

No one is saying we have to throw the ball deep.

But you better be able to stretch the field a bit with intermediate passes of 10-30 yards, or defenses will sit in the box and shut you down.

[gblowfish]

I brought this up about the short passes, because I have yet to see Cassel prove he can hit a receiver long. I don't think he's got the accuracy, and what better time to air it out and test it out than pre-season? You've got nothing to lose, let's see what the guy can (or in this case, can't) do.

[Coogs]

But you better be able to stretch the field a bit with intermediate passes of 10-30 yards, or defenses will sit in the box and shut you down.

No denying Cassel played much better, BUT... case in point to back up what OTW is saying. We had two 3rd and short situations with Cassel in at QB where a pass play was called. Everybody was covered in the short area, AND...

3-3-TB 47 (13:43) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel scrambles up the middle to TB 46 for 1 yard (93-G.McCoy).

3-2-KC 33 (8:36) 7-M.Cassel sacked at KC 23 for -10 yards (58-Q.Black).

[Coogs]

Then there were these two 3rd and 2 situations, where we just barley converted the first one on the FG drive to end the half...

3-2-TB 21 (1:00) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass short left to 20-T.Jones to TB 19 for 2 yards (91-S.White).

3-3-TB 12 (:38) (Shotgun) 20-T.Jones up the middle to TB 10 for 2 yards (93-G.McCoy

Got to have the threat of a bit longer pass to back the defense off. Then the dink and dunk is fine.

[Deberg_1990]

I wont argue with anything anyone has said about Cassel so far....I have serious doubts about him myself.

I will wait to judge fully until the season starts though.....praying that Weis and Haley are holding stuff back.......

[Reerun_KC]

I wont argue with anything anyone has said about Cassel so far....I have serious doubts about him myself.

I will wait to judge fully until the season starts though.....praying that Weis and Haley are holding stuff back.......

I agree with you here, Who knows whether or not Cassel is the long term answer or not?

but my guess is that Haley and Co are using these games as practice and practice only... I would like to see them push the ball down the field more in the next game though...

Just to see where we are at.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I don't buy the "Top Secret" angle for one minute. It is what it is.

[Deberg_1990]

I don't buy the "Top Secret" angle for one minute. It is what it is.

Most likely.......

But Cassel did throw deep several times last year, so its not like they wont or cant.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Most likely.......

But Cassel did throw deep several times last year, so its not like they wont or cant.

It's a bit early to be getting too worked up, but the situation with Cassel has been beyond frustrating thus far, and we kind of figured it would be.

The thing is, we've got so many spots to replace and shore-up, that drafting and grooming a QB after this season wouldn't really put us back that far if we got the right candidate.

Meh. We'll see.

[Reerun_KC]

Most likely.......

But Cassel did throw deep several times last year, so its not like they wont or cant.

We opened up and went deep against Denver a couple of times during the final game...

I dont think Cassel is great, but people are so desperate to hate someone that he is the target. Its the cool thing to do...

And I also dont think he will be here on a long term contract either...

[LaChapelle]

The schedule isn't that tuff
Arenas could shorten the field
Charles and Jones should provide a good running game
I expect Bowe to have a good year -Chambers could fall off -McCluster could help out alot
Right Tackle being a major ? - Cassel should have a solid(not fantastic)year

[El Jefe]

I got his jersey when he was drafted so I have to say those things. :(

Likewise, we are tards LMAO

[Fish]

We opened up and went deep against Denver a couple of times during the final game...

I dont think Cassel is great, but people are so desperate to hate someone that he is the target. Its the cool thing to do...

And I also dont think he will be here on a long term contract either...

Desperate to hate? Please humor me and explain that. Are you saying that there are so few things about this team in which to be frustrated about that we have to resort to desperation?

If you're actually serious here, and not just on one of your ploys to get attention via calling out your imagined enemies the "Draftabulators", then please take a moment and tell me what Cassel done since joining the Chiefs to show you he's anything other than a mistake? I mean you already admit that he's not "great", and you don't think he will be here on a long contract. So what is it about him that gives you confidence enough to call out his detractors?

I think you just like playing the role of antagonist....

[Ming the Merciless]

I think you just like playing the role of antagonist....

It is all a matter of perspective. One person's antagonist is the other's protagonist. Personally I think he is right. It is much easier for a simple mind to blame Cassel for everything than it is to actually discuss and deal with the other problems (which are many) of the team.

[Pants]

It is all a matter of perspective. One person's antagonist is the other's protagonist. Personally I think he is right. It is much easier for a simple mind to blame Cassel for everything than it is to actually discuss and deal with the other problems (which are many) of the team.

Nobody is blaming Cassel for everything. People are just stating the fact that he's not a very good QB at all.

AT.
ALL.

[Coogs]

And I also dont think he will be here on a long term contract either...

Fuggin' hater! ;)

[milkman]

Thing that cracks me up is rich Gannon dunked and d inked his way to a super bowl and an MVP. People here still swallow Gannon balls deep. Next thing you know in Weis pre season offense, Cassel Dinka and dunks and the world is coming to and end. I don't think were going to see the chiefs air it out 20-50 down the field every game. I know it will give the women somethingto bitch about. But they whine and bit h here anyway

Yes, Gannon did dink and dunk his way to a SB, but while his arm strength wasn't anything to write home about, he could consistently hit receivers with accuracy 15-20 yds downfield, and he also had to ability to make things happen consistently with his legs if everything else broke down.

Montana didn't have great arm strength either, but you knew that if Rice or Taylor to open downfiled, he'd hit them in stride and on time.

You can dink and dunk effectively, as long as the defense knows that you can also get it downfield when the play is there.

[Coogs]

Yes, Gannon did dink and dunk his way to a SB, but while his arm strength wasn't anything to write home about, he could consistently hit receivers with accuracy 15-20 yds downfield, and he also had to ability to make things happen consistently with his legs if everything else broke down.

Montana didn't have great arm strength either, but you knew that if Rice or Taylor to open downfiled, he'd hit them in stride and on time.

You can dink and dunk effectively, as long as the defense knows that you can also get it downfield when the play is there.

This!

Very good post MM

[notorious]

Yes, Gannon did dink and dunk his way to a SB,


Plus he was VERY accurate on the dinks and dunks.


Cassel doesn't normally put the ball in a place where the receiver can keep his speed. The passes are high, low, or behind the receivers back so that when they catch it they lose all of their momentum.

For a short pass-based offense, you have to have a QB that can hit a receiver in stride so that they have an opportunity to make plays.

[milkman]

Plus he was VERY accurate on the dinks and dunks.


Cassel doesn't normally put the ball in a place where the receiver can keep his speed. The passes are high, low, or behind the receivers back so that when they catch it they lose all of their momentum.

For a short pass-based offense, you have to have a QB that can hit a receiver in stride so that they have an opportunity to make plays.

This is one aspect in the Cassel debate that I have to take the Cassel side on.

In watching all the Patriot replays on NFLNetwork over the '09 offseason, the one positive I noted about Cassel was how accurately he placed the ball in the short passing game when he developed timing and rythm with his receivers.

I also noted how effectively the Patriots used the deeper routes to open up that short passing game to keep defenses from stacking at the line.

The fact is, Cassel did go through numerous receivers last year and he never got a feel for any of them.

If the receiver group is more stable, and Weis opens up the offense just a little, in spite of Cassel's deficiency on the deeper routes, in order to keep defenses honest, then Cassel can be very effective in the short passing game.

[notorious]

This is one aspect in the Cassel debate that I have to take the Cassel side on.

In watching all the Patriot replays on NFLNetwork over the '09 offseason, the one positive I noted about Cassel was how accurately he placed the ball in the short passing game when he developed timing and rythm with his receivers.

I also noted how effectively the Patriots used the deeper routes to open up that short passing game to keep defenses from stacking at the line.

The fact is, Cassel did go through numerous receivers last year and he never got a feel for any of them.

If the receiver group is more stable, and Weis opens up the offense just a little, in spite of Cassel's deficiency on the deeper routes, in order to keep defenses honest, then Cassel can be very effective in the short passing game.

I see your point. It takes time for a QB to "feel" his WR's out, I just hope it comes sooner rather then later.

[TheGuardian]

Yes, Gannon did dink and dunk his way to a SB, but while his arm strength wasn't anything to write home about, he could consistently hit receivers with accuracy 15-20 yds downfield, and he also had to ability to make things happen consistently with his legs if everything else broke down.

Montana didn't have great arm strength either, but you knew that if Rice or Taylor to open downfiled, he'd hit them in stride and on time.

You can dink and dunk effectively, as long as the defense knows that you can also get it downfield when the play is there.

Actually dinking and dunking is generally what sets up the longer passes, along with the ground game as the safetys move up to cover the shorter and intermediate zones more. 20+ yard passes (in the air) aren't throw that many times in a game actually.

And I don't think I saw Gannon throw a pass over 3 yards the year he won that MVP. If Cassel did that people here would still bitch. And I'm no Cassel fan but some people are just going to complain no matter what.

[YayMike]

This is one aspect in the Cassel debate that I have to take the Cassel side on.

In watching all the Patriot replays on NFLNetwork over the '09 offseason, the one positive I noted about Cassel was how accurately he placed the ball in the short passing game when he developed timing and rythm with his receivers.

I also noted how effectively the Patriots used the deeper routes to open up that short passing game to keep defenses from stacking at the line.

The fact is, Cassel did go through numerous receivers last year and he never got a feel for any of them.

If the receiver group is more stable, and Weis opens up the offense just a little, in spite of Cassel's deficiency on the deeper routes, in order to keep defenses honest, then Cassel can be very effective in the short passing game.

Great post. In NE Cassel depended a lot on YAC from his receivers, and i think this year we could expect some of the same with drag patterns and crosses with Bowe, McCluster, Charles, etc.

Additionally, if we can get a good run game going, this should open up the PA Pass. Granted, last year, he looked like $hit on PA Passing, but how much of that has to do with the OL versus his tard arm.

Something we didn't do effectively a lot last year was run screens.. Maybe Weis will throw a few in the playbook, just quick easy passes to get the WR/QB momentum in rhythm.

[milkman]

Actually dinking and dunking is generally what sets up the longer passes, along with the ground game as the safetys move up to cover the shorter and intermediate zones more. 20+ yard passes (in the air) aren't throw that many times in a game actually.

I don't disagree with that.
However, the fact is, you have to show the long ball occassionally or defenses will play everything tight and take away that short passing game.

And I don't think I saw Gannon throw a pass over 3 yards the year he won that MVP. If Cassel did that people here would still bitch. And I'm no Cassel fan but some people are just going to complain no matter what.

Gannon threw plenty of intermediate passes, and he also went deep a couple of times.

He completed about a 40 yard pass that looked like a punt to Tim Brown in a game against the Chargers that had me laughing my ass off.

[TheGuardian]

I don't disagree with that.
However, the fact is, you have to show the long ball occassionally or defenses will play everything tight and take away that short passing game.



Gannon threw plenty of intermediate passes, and he also went deep a couple of times.

He completed about a 40 yard pass that looked like a punt to Tim Brown in a game against the Chargers that had me laughing my ass off.

But the biggest reason that pass was there was because Gannon only threw dink passes 90+% of the time. I mean 5 yarders, literally. That was the bulk of what he did. That wouldn't be acceptable by some here even if it meant winning more games. There is always going to be some complaint.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Gannon went 70/140 on throws over 10 yards in his MVP season, FWIW.

Interestingly enough, he also threw the majority of his INT's on throws under 10 yards, and had a 20 point jump in QB rating on throws over 10 yards.

Regardless of whether you think that the short passing game opens up the intermediate throws, or vice-versa, one thing is clear:

Rich Gannon was capable of throwing the ball 10-30 yards downfield accurately.

Matt Cassel isn't.

[milkman]

But the biggest reason that pass was there was because Gannon only threw dink passes 90+% of the time. I mean 5 yarders, literally. That was the bulk of what he did. That wouldn't be acceptable by some here even if it meant winning more games. There is always going to be some complaint.

Regardless, can we both agree that Cassel needs to mix in an occassional pass that travels further than 10 yards in the air?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Regardless, can we both agree that Cassel needs to mix in an occassional pass that travels further than 10 yards in the air, and do so accurately?

Slight addendum to your post.

[the Talking Can]

Gannon had a pocket awareness and savy that Cassel doesn't.

It's obvious in 3 plays to the naked eye.

stats are meaningless...you're comparing Cassel to really good QBs...and they're really good for reasons having nothing to do with stats...stats are the result, not the cause...

Cassel has no 'it,' no savy, no awareness, no nothing that raises the performance of those around him...and it ain't magically appearing in his 9th year...

Cassel isn't even as good as Green or Grbac. And we know where this ends...more wasted time...

[milkman]

Slight addendum to your post.

If he can get it in the neighborhood of the receiver, then it will still have the same effect in opening up the short passing game.

But TC, in his following brings up the single most imprtant attribute that you need from a QB.

Without that pocket awareness, that savvy, even with everything else working, at the end of the day, you can't hope to rely on Cassel in tough situations.

[OnTheWarpath15]

If he can get it in the neighborhood of the receiver, then it will still have the same effect in opening up the short passing game.

But TC, in his following brings up the single most imprtant attribute that you need from a QB.

Without that pocket awareness, that savvy, even with everything else working, at the end of the day, you can't hope to rely on Cassel in tough situations.

Agree completely.

[the Talking Can]

i'm not trying to kill an interesting discussion...i just can't shake the bone deep feeling that Cassel is just a great big 'eh...'

[milkman]

i'm not trying to kill an interesting discussion...i just can't shake the bone deep feeling that Cassel is just a great big 'eh...'

The reality is that there are some things, given the right tools, that Cassel does well.

However, when it comes to it, that post really sums it up.

The intangibles are what seperates QBs.

[OnTheWarpath15]

i'm not trying to kill an interesting discussion...i just can't shake the bone deep feeling that Cassel is just a great big 'eh...'

You're not alone.

Seems like there's two types of people in the Cassel debate.

People like you, me, Milk, etc who have this feeling, based on current and past play, and aren't seeing anything to think MC will prove them wrong.

People that rationalize his shortcomings because he plays for the Chiefs, and feel it's easier to "hope" he magically transforms into a franchise QB, meanwhile ignoring the fact that he's never shown the ability to be one.

He is what he is. Hell, even surrounded by one of the most prolific offenses in recent memory, he only completed 40% of his passes over 10 yards, and took 3X the amount of sacks Brady did the year before and the year after.

You could put a Pro Bowl team around him, and his shortcomings are still his shortcomings. And guys with those shortcomings don't become franchise QB's.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

When you tack on Gannon's ability to evade a pass-rush, there's really no comparison.

2009 was just a shit first year for this new regime, and that's all there is to it.

[Coogs]

I posted 4 plays from the game against the Bucc's earlier in this thread. All four plays were 3rd and relatively short. In the 2 to 4 yard range. 3 of the 4 we did not convert, and the 4th we did, but just by an eyelash.

Not being able to back the defense off the line a bit in those situations is going to be the downfall of the offense. Still time to rectify the situation, but I'm not sure if we can.

[SAUTO]

I posted 4 plays from the game against the Bucc's earlier in this thread. All four plays were 3rd and relatively short. In the 2 to 4 yard range. 3 of the 4 we did not convert, and the 4th we did, but just by an eyelash.

Not being able to back the defense off the line a bit in those situations is going to be the downfall of the offense. Still time to rectify the situation, but I'm not sure if we can.

IIRC two of those plays were in the redzone. sorry but teams arent worried about you beating them deep from inside the 20(or at the 20)

[OnTheWarpath15]

IIRC two of those plays were in the redzone. sorry but teams arent worried about you beating them deep from inside the 20(or at the 20)

Who said anything about going deep?

This is a matter of making teams defend as much of the field as possible.

In those scenarios, there's nothing wrong with throwing a 12 yard pass. No one is saying we have to go for the EZ there.

We're only making the defense's job easier my refusing to throw even intermediate routes. (10-20 yards)

[SAUTO]

Who said anything about going deep?

This is a matter of making teams defend as much of the field as possible.

In those scenarios, there's nothing wrong with throwing a 12 yard pass. No one is saying we have to go for the EZ there.

We're only making the defense's job easier my refusing to throw even intermediate routes. (10-20 yards)

if thats the case didnt he throw a pass for a td last week that would fit your criteria?

[OnTheWarpath15]

if thats the case didnt he throw a pass for a td last week that would fit your criteria?

A 6 yard TD pass fits that criteria?

Oh-kay, then.

[SAUTO]

A 6 yard TD pass fits that criteria?

Oh-kay, then.

somehow i KNEW thats what you would say.

this conversation is about showing that he can accurately throw a ball 10-20 yards right? to loosen up a defense?

well he wasnt throwing that ball from the LOS to the goal line, was he?

nope that ball went at least 15 yards on a rope and was accurate.


at least it shows a defense that he IS capable of making that throw.

[Coogs]

IIRC two of those plays were in the redzone. sorry but teams arent worried about you beating them deep from inside the 20(or at the 20)

Like I said, I don't see it as a huge problem yet. There is still plenty of time to fix things. But even in the redzone there has to be the threat of the pass to beat the defense. We got one in there to Horne. Job well done. What we need to see is consistancy from week-to-week... series-to-series. Time will tell.

[gblowfish]

I'm more worried about our ability to stop the run and rush the QB right now.
I think our offense will be OK. If we can chew up clock, that'll help the defense rest.
We need a pass rush without blitzing a safety or corner. Those big money guys up front need to start earning those first round paychecks.

[ModSocks]

I'm more worried about our ability to stop the run and rush the QB right now.
I think our offense will be OK. If we can chew up clock, that'll help the defense rest.
We need a pass rush without blitzing a safety or corner. Those big money guys up front need to start earning those first round paychecks.

Well, were not going to generate a pass rush sending 3 guys. It's just not going to happen. So, we'll send Hali. That helps. But teams who generate a good pass rush typically send at least one more. When we've blitzed, we've been successful at collapsing the pocket. I think We'll see a lot more of that when the season starts.

[OnTheWarpath15]

somehow i KNEW thats what you would say.

this conversation is about showing that he can accurately throw a ball 10-20 yards right? to loosen up a defense?

well he wasnt throwing that ball from the LOS to the goal line, was he?

nope that ball went at least 15 yards on a rope and was accurate.


at least it shows a defense that he IS capable of making that throw.

Wow.

You'll argue anything.

I guess he should be commended when he throws a WR screen. After all, that's 15 yards on a rope.

You might be the most disingenuous poster here. This discussion, and every one like it has focused on making the defense cover more than a 10 yard box from the LOS.

But you knew that, you just like to argue.

[DeezNutz]

I'm more worried about our ability to stop the run and rush the QB right now.


There's nothing to worry about because we're not going to be able to do either with much success. Rest easy with this knowledge.

[SAUTO]

Wow.

You'll argue anything.

I guess he should be commended when he throws a WR screen. After all, that's 15 yards on a rope.

You might be the most disingenuous poster here. This discussion, and every one like it has focused on making the defense cover more than a 10 yard box from the LOS.

But you knew that, you just like to argue.

first off, who's arguing?

and like i said THAT PASS went over ten yards from the LOS. NO? a little different than a swing pass.

it showed every defensive coordinator that he can throw a pass over 10 yards accurately. something some here say CANT happen because he isnt able to.

but i'm sure those DCs just look at stats and not the tape so they would only see that as a 6 yard pass:rolleyes:

[milkman]

first off, who's arguing?

and like i said THAT PASS went over ten yards from the LOS. NO? a little different than a swing pass.

it showed every defensive coordinator that he can throw a pass over 10 yards accurately. something some here say CANT happen because he isnt able to.

but i'm sure those DCs just look at stats and not the tape so they would only see that as a 6 yard pass:rolleyes:

I've only seen the replay in highlights, so I really didn't get a good look at it, but I'm not so sure that pass was actually intended for Horne.

[donkhater]

I've only seen the replay in highlights, so I really didn't get a good look at it, but I'm not so sure that pass was actually intended for Horne.

Why? Because McCluster dove for it and it hit Horne in the gut?

[gblowfish]

There's nothing to worry about because we're not going to be able to do either with much success. Rest easy with this knowledge.

Gosh, I feel better already!

[Fish]

first off, who's arguing?

and like i said THAT PASS went over ten yards from the LOS. NO? a little different than a swing pass.

it showed every defensive coordinator that he can throw a pass over 10 yards accurately. something some here say CANT happen because he isnt able to.

but i'm sure those DCs just look at stats and not the tape so they would only see that as a 6 yard pass:rolleyes:

Come on Jason... Look at the big picture a little. Cassel only threw 5 passes the entire game that went for more than 10 yards. And all but about 1 went more than 10 yards because of the receiver's YAC. You're pointing at one pass and saying "Look it's possible cause it happened once!!" Well I don't see anybody around that's trying to say Cassel can't get the ball past 10 yards once. We all know he can. The issue is how often he does it and what kind of accuracy does he have. Well, his history paints a pretty good picture of that. If you compare Cassel's pass attempt yardage average against other top QBs, you'll see that he doesn't compare very well at all. Yes he can do it once. But he only seems to have any kind of decent success with passes under 10 yards. And opposing DCs aren't going to be scared off by a single pass.

[milkman]

Why? Because McCluster dove for it and it hit Horne in the gut?

Like I said, I only saw the highlight, so I didn't get that great a look at it.

I fully acknowledge that I could be wrong.

In that vein, I didn't know it was McCluster, and in the quick replay, it appeared to me that he fell down, rather than dove.

[Fish]

I've only seen the replay in highlights, so I really didn't get a good look at it, but I'm not so sure that pass was actually intended for Horne.

And that's another point I didn't see discussed. I swear that the pass was intended for Jones on a shorter route. If you rewatch that, Jones was stretched out trying his damndest to catch that ball. By his effort and Cassel's eyes, it really looked like the pass was intended for Jones, but overthrown. And it happened to end up right in Horne's hands. I mentioned that during the game, and I'd still bet money that was the case.

[milkman]

So, who was it?

Jones or McCluster?

[ModSocks]

So, who was it?

Jones or McCluster?

It was McCluster.

And I think it looked that way just because there were two Receiver in the area. It was intended for Horne, no doubt. McCluster just thought it was for him and he layed out for it but I dont think he was even close to grabbing it.

[Fish]

It was McCluster.

And I think it looked that way just because there were two Receiver in the area. It was intended for Horne, no doubt. McCluster just thought it was for him and he layed out for it but I dont think he was even close to grabbing it.

No doubt? I'm not sure how you can say that. It went directly over his head, and he practically bent over backwards trying to catch it. You don't have a WR trying that hard for a ball that wasn't intended for him.

Anybody have a clip of that play?

[gblowfish]

No doubt? I'm not sure how you can say that. It went directly over his head, and he practically bent over backwards trying to catch it. You don't have a WR trying that hard for a ball that wasn't intended for him.

Anybody have a clip of that play?

I think the routes just got confused. McCluster thought the pass was for him, but it was too high and behind him. It was right in the chest of Horne, where it was supposed to be.

[SAUTO]

No doubt? I'm not sure how you can say that. It went directly over his head, and he practically bent over backwards trying to catch it. You don't have a WR trying that hard for a ball that wasn't intended for him.

Anybody have a clip of that play?

backwards? he was running straight ahead and dove and the pass still went quite a bit past his hands.

[SAUTO]

Come on Jason... Look at the big picture a little. Cassel only threw 5 passes the entire game that went for more than 10 yards. And all but about 1 went more than 10 yards because of the receiver's YAC. You're pointing at one pass and saying "Look it's possible cause it happened once!!" Well I don't see anybody around that's trying to say Cassel can't get the ball past 10 yards once. We all know he can. The issue is how often he does it and what kind of accuracy does he have. Well, his history paints a pretty good picture of that. If you compare Cassel's pass attempt yardage average against other top QBs, you'll see that he doesn't compare very well at all. Yes he can do it once. But he only seems to have any kind of decent success with passes under 10 yards. And opposing DCs aren't going to be scared off by a single pass.

how many passes did he throw the ENTIRE game fish? 5 out of 14 completions?
19 attempts. i would think that a pretty good ratio.

[Fish]

how many passes did he throw the ENTIRE game fish? 5 out of 14 completions?
19 attempts. i would think that a pretty good ratio.

OK... let's look at Cassel's career attempt yardage compared to other top QBs then...

For each link, scroll down to the Advanced Passing section, and take a look at the different Yards Per Attempt stats. They rate passers on an index that is explained in the glossary. A 100 number is considered average.

Peyton Manning: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00.htm

Drew Brees: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BreeDr00.htm

Tom Brady: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm

Matt Cassel: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CassMa00.htm

Even when Cassel was with New England and had a great supporting cast, he barely got over 100 in each of the categories.

[ModSocks]

backwards? he was running straight ahead and dove and the pass still went quite a bit past his hands.

Uh, no. McCluster was running in the opposite direction of the ball and flipped around and extended his body to try to make the catch.

It was purely a case of two receivers being in the same area, nothing more. It was Intended for Horne. McCluster just thought it was one of Cassel's trademarked behind the receiver throws and he adjusted and went for the ball.

[SAUTO]

Uh, no. McCluster was running in the opposite direction of the ball and flipped around and extended his body to try to make the catch.

It was purely a case of two receivers being in the same area, nothing more. It was Intended for Horne. McCluster just thought it was one of Cassel's trademarked behind the receiver throws and he adjusted and went for the ball.

regardless of the direction mccluster was running (ill watch it again when i get home) he was no where near as close as horne

[ModSocks]

regardless of the direction mccluster was running (ill watch it again when i get home) he was no where near as close as horne

I agree. I thought it was clearly intended for Horne. Matt Cassel made some mistakes that night, but that throw was not one of them.

[SAUTO]

I agree. I thought it was clearly intended for Horne. Matt Cassel made some mistakes that night, but that throw was not one of them.

i agree, that was a good throw, had nice zip and right on target.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

i agree, that was a good throw, had nice zip and right on target.

Even when he makes a nice pass, it still gets criticized ROFL

[-King-]

The best thing about that TD is that Matt Cassel audibled out of another play to get to that one.

[-King-]

And that's another point I didn't see discussed. I swear that the pass was intended for Jones on a shorter route. If you rewatch that, Jones was stretched out trying his damndest to catch that ball. By his effort and Cassel's eyes, it really looked like the pass was intended for Jones, but overthrown. And it happened to end up right in Horne's hands. I mentioned that during the game, and I'd still bet money that was the case.

Wait...wtf? Jones was blocking on that play. http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d819ec7cf/Horne-s-6-yard-touchdown-catch

[ModSocks]

Wait...wtf? Jones was blocking on that play. http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d819ec7cf/Horne-s-6-yard-touchdown-catch

Yeah, He's THAT Good.

[Fish]

Wait...wtf? Jones was blocking on that play. http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/09000d5d819ec7cf/Horne-s-6-yard-touchdown-catch

Yes... as someone already corrected me, it was McCluster.

Funny that the announcer states that it "Went through one receiver and Jeremy Horne hauled it in."

In that replay, it looks like McCluster was pretty close...

I still think he was throwing at McCluster...

[Fish]

OK...

Here's the ball coming in from another angle... McCluster is moving to his right.

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/3691/img03544523488.jpg

McCluster starts to dive for the ball...

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/487/img03554531724.jpg

Almost touches it.... barely fingertips... and not really over his head so much as to the side...

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5708/img03494937474.jpg

The ball gets by him. Notice how low to the ground the ball is... and notice that there are 2 defenders closing on Horne. Meaning if Horne was the target, Cassel was throwing into double coverage as opposed to the single covered McCluster..

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4214/img03565140388.jpg


Notice how low Horne stoops to catch the ball.... he has to bend over.. certainly didn't hit him in the chest... He was moving right to left by the camera, and he had to stop and bend over...

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/7306/img03534994739.jpg


I don't know. Maybe McCluster overran his route and wasn't supposed to be that close to Horne... but I think from this view either guy could be the target.

What do you guys think from this angle?

[donkhater]

Wow. You guys are DETERMINED to hate this guy.

[milkman]

Wow. You guys are DETERMINED to hate this guy.

There's a difference between hate and lacking faith.

[donkhater]

There's a difference between hate and lacking faith.

I know. But the extent to which you guys analyze his play is borderline stalker. I finally saw the game the other night and he was nowhere near as bad as this board's commentary made him out to be. Just because he doesn't air it out behind a porous O-line in a preseason game and you guys go ape. Could he be more accurate? yes. Many QB's could. But he moved the football just fine and made solid throws.

It's bad enough when you guys bitch and moan about every...single....incompletion. But now you are analyzing a well-thrown TD pass?

As I said....determined.

[milkman]

I know. But the extent to which you guys analyze his play is borderline stalker. I finally saw the game the other night and he was nowhere near as bad as this board's commentary made him out to be. Just because he doesn't air it out behind a porous O-line in a preseason game and you guys go ape. Could he be more accurate? yes. Many QB's could. But he moved the football just fine and made solid throws.

It's bad enough when you guys bitch and moan about every...single....incompletion. But now you are analyzing a well-thrown TD pass?

As I said....determined.

We're overanalyzing a "well thrown" TD because he hasn't given us enough good to end doubt that that 'well thrown" TD wasn't actually just lucky.

[Marcellus]

We're overanalyzing a "well thrown" TD because he hasn't given us enough good to end doubt that that 'well thrown" TD wasn't actually just lucky.

Unfortunately for some here they fail to believe he could make a good throw so they have to look at things glass half empty.

I am not one of those.

However if he stinks it up this year I will have no excuses for him. Problem I see is the worst thing can happen is he plays Ok but not great and keeps his job.

Stink or kill it. Please don't be just good enough.

[DeezNutz]

There's a difference between hate and lacking faith.

I don't hate the player, but I sure as **** hate what he represents.

And Weis will ensure that he's "good enough."

[SAUTO]

Unfortunately for some here they fail to believe he could make a good throw so they have to look at things glass half empty.

I am not one of those.

However if he stinks it up this year I will have no excuses for him. Problem I see is the worst thing can happen is he plays Ok but not great and keeps his job.

Stink or kill it. Please don't be just good enough.

i agree
Posted via Mobile Device

[ChiefsCountry]

OK...

Here's the ball coming in from another angle... McCluster is moving to his right.

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/3691/img03544523488.jpg

McCluster starts to dive for the ball...

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/487/img03554531724.jpg

Almost touches it.... barely fingertips... and not really over his head so much as to the side...

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5708/img03494937474.jpg

The ball gets by him. Notice how low to the ground the ball is... and notice that there are 2 defenders closing on Horne. Meaning if Horne was the target, Cassel was throwing into double coverage as opposed to the single covered McCluster..

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4214/img03565140388.jpg


Notice how low Horne stoops to catch the ball.... he has to bend over.. certainly didn't hit him in the chest... He was moving right to left by the camera, and he had to stop and bend over...

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/7306/img03534994739.jpg


I don't know. Maybe McCluster overran his route and wasn't supposed to be that close to Horne... but I think from this view either guy could be the target.

What do you guys think from this angle?

Guess its better to be lucky than good sometimes.

[Marcellus]

Guess its better to be lucky than good sometimes.

Everyone should be so lucky to throw it right to a guy.

I am sure Horne (a no name UDFA) was there as a diversion to draw the defenders instead of McCluster (the 2nd round speedster who's already growing a rep as a playmaker) as the commentators pointed out after the play.

[FAX]

Based on those stills, it appears to me that Cassel was attempting to hit the crossbar and missed by a mile.

FAX

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Jesus, this isn't the Kennedy assassination here. I can see it now. Cassel had 3 TD's but on one the wind took the off target pass and floated it right into the recievers hand. On another the hand of god itself took the pass and placed it into Bowe's hands. The other doesn't count because McCluster took it to the house with alot of YAC.

[-King-]

Jesus, this isn't the Kennedy assassination here. I can see it now. Cassel had 3 TD's but on one the wind took the off target pass and floated it right into the recievers hand. On another the hand of god itself took the pass and placed it into Bowe's hands. The other doesn't count because McCluster took it to the house with alot of YAC.

Basically.


And I'm not even a Cassel fan, but this shit is ridiculous.

[Reerun_KC]

Jesus, this isn't the Kennedy assassination here. I can see it now. Cassel had 3 TD's but on one the wind took the off target pass and floated it right into the recievers hand. On another the hand of god itself took the pass and placed it into Bowe's hands. The other doesn't count because McCluster took it to the house with alot of YAC.

Basically.


And I'm not even a Cassel fan, but this shit is ridiculous.

You think this shit is freaking retarded now... Just imagine if we drafted a 1st round QB... They would take it to levels that stupid couldn't even touch...

[OnTheWarpath15]

You think this shit is freaking retarded now... Just imagine if we drafted a 1st round QB... They would take it to levels that stupid couldn't even touch...

Actually, I think all of the people you're "referring" to wouldn't nitpick at all - it would be the people that want no part of a high draft pick at QB.

Some of us see the difference between a 22 year old rookie and a 28 year old 5th year benchwarmer and understand the difference in expectation.

A young player with potential should get time to learn the game, the speed of the game, etc. That's why people saying that Sanchez and Stafford suck when they are 2nd year players is retarded.

Meanwhile, those same people are more than willing to give a 28 year old never-was the same amount of time, and are more than willing to continue to make excuses for his shitty play.

I guarantee you that the people defending Cassel now would be the same folks looking to burn a R1 pick at the fucking stake 3 weeks into his rookie year.

[Coogs]

Actually, I think all of the people you're "referring" to wouldn't nitpick at all - it would be the people that want no part of a high draft pick at QB.

Some of us see the difference between a 22 year old rookie and a 28 year old 5th year benchwarmer and understand the difference in expectation.

A young player with potential should get time to learn the game, the speed of the game, etc. That's why people saying that Sanchez and Stafford suck when they are 2nd year players is retarded.

Meanwhile, those same people are more than willing to give a 28 year old never-was the same amount of time, and are more than willing to continue to make excuses for his shitty play.

I guarantee you that the people defending Cassel now would be the same folks looking to burn a R1 pick at the fucking stake 3 weeks into his rookie year.

Stafford has a 98.5 QB ranking through 2 games. And we could have had him. Lions were trying hard to move down that year. Sanchez goes without saying.

[Reerun_KC]

Based on those stills, it appears to me that Cassel was attempting to hit the crossbar and missed by a mile.

FAX

You sure?

I thought he was throwing it to the defender behind the crossbar?

Can we get some confirmation on this?

[-King-]

Stafford has a 98.5 QB ranking through 2 games. And we could have had him. Lions were trying hard to move down that year. Sanchez goes without saying.

What do you mean Sanchez goes without staying? I'd rather have Stafford than Sanchez...and it's not even close.

[Fish]

Jesus, this isn't the Kennedy assassination here. I can see it now. Cassel had 3 TD's but on one the wind took the off target pass and floated it right into the recievers hand. On another the hand of god itself took the pass and placed it into Bowe's hands. The other doesn't count because McCluster took it to the house with alot of YAC.

Basically.


And I'm not even a Cassel fan, but this shit is ridiculous.

Ohh OK... first you you guys along with several others say Cassel had a nice "zip" on the ball, and it was right on target, with no way McCluster could be the target. And "Even when he makes a nice pass, it still gets criticized ROFL"

But yet, when I post some pics showing it's not as clear cut as you described... then I'm obsessing and turning it into the Kennedy assassination...

Yet none of you challenged the pics I posted or the possibility that it wasn't intended for Horne. Just criticizing me for providing another angle.

Whatever...

[Just Passin' By]

Stafford has a 98.5 QB ranking through 2 games. And we could have had him. Lions were trying hard to move down that year. Sanchez goes without saying.

JaMarcus Russell

31 games
25 starts
18 TDs
23 INTs
3.4% INT%
65.2 QB rating


Mark Sanchez
15 games
15 starts
12 TDs
20 INTs
5.5% INT%
63.0 QB rating


It does, indeed, go without saying.

[keg in kc]

I guarantee you that the people defending Cassel now would be the same folks looking to burn a R1 pick at the ****ing stake 3 weeks into his rookie year.I'd tend to disagree with that. I think a lot of the people who "defend" Cassel do it for no real reason beyond the fact that he plays for KC. I have a feeling they'd treat any quarterback, young or old, the way they treated Green in 2002 or Cassel in 2010. Because he's a member of the Chiefs. And I don't think it would have been any different had it been Brees instead of Green in '01 or Sanchez instead of Cassel in '09. Actually, they might have been treated even better, since most of the guys who'd toss out monikers like "TrINT" and "Casshole" are so dead-set against veteran quarterbacks that they'd have violent screaming orgasms of joy if the team ever picked up a high round rookie QB, regardless of who he is.

But it's impossible to say for sure, since they haven't drafted a quarterback in decades...

[-King-]

Ohh OK... first you you guys along with several others say Cassel had a nice "zip" on the ball, and it was right on target, with no way McCluster could be the target. And "Even when he makes a nice pass, it still gets criticized ROFL"

But yet, when I post some pics showing it's not as clear cut as you described... then I'm obsessing and turning it into the Kennedy assassination...

Yet none of you challenged the pics I posted or the possibility that it wasn't intended for Horne. Just criticizing me for providing another angle.

Whatever...

I said he had a nice zip on the ball? LMAO quote? All I said is that the ball was intended for Horne. That's all I've said on this subject.

All I'm saying is I've never seen any TD(preseason mind you) be this controversial when it doesn't need to be.

[-King-]

JaMarcus Russell

31 games
25 starts
18 TDs
23 INTs
3.4% INT%
65.2 QB rating


Mark Sanchez
15 games
15 starts
12 TDs
20 INTs
5.5% INT%
63.0 QB rating


It does, indeed, go without saying.

Uh oh... http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/4561/gpopcorn1.gif (http://img827.imageshack.us/i/gpopcorn1.gif/)


This might get good...http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8371/gpopcorn.gif

[OnTheWarpath15]

I'd tend to disagree with that. I think a lot of the people who "defend" Cassel do it for no real reason beyond the fact that he plays for KC. I have a feeling they'd treat any quarterback, young or old, the way they treated Green in 2002 or Cassel in 2010. Because he's a member of the Chiefs. And I don't think it would have been any different had it been Brees instead of Green in '01 or Sanchez instead of Cassel in '09. Actually, they might have been treated even better, since most of the guys who'd toss out monikers like "TrINT" and "Casshole" are so dead-set against veteran quarterbacks that they'd have violent screaming orgasms of joy if the team ever picked up a high round rookie QB, regardless of who he is.

But it's impossible to say for sure, since they haven't drafted a quarterback in decades...

Look at the post before yours for a perfect example of my point. God forbid a rookie not have a great season. Meanwhile, the guy who's 28 gets a pass for poor play.

[-King-]

Look at the post before yours for a perfect example of my point. God forbid a rookie not have a great season. Meanwhile, the guy who's 28 gets a pass for poor play.

I don't even think Just Passin' Buy is a chiefs fan. Is he?

[keg in kc]

Look at the post before yours for a perfect example of my point. God forbid a rookie not have a great season. Meanwhile, the guy who's 28 gets a pass for poor play.I haven't seen many people actually give Cassel a "pass" - hoping he can play better or noting the quality (or lack thereof) of the players around him last year rather than writing him off is not a "pass" in any real way - and the rookie you reference isn't on the Chiefs. As I said, I'd imagine a Sanchez or a Ryan or a Flacco would get different (better) treatment from Chiefs fans if they actually played here. Homers tend to fall in love with their own guys. But, again, it's impossible to say for sure, since the franchise hasn't actually drafted a quarterback in decades.

[Coogs]

What do you mean Sanchez goes without staying? I'd rather have Stafford than Sanchez...and it's not even close.

I meant we could have drafted Sanchez at #3 without trading up. Nothing more.

[SAUTO]

Ohh OK... first you you guys along with several others say Cassel had a nice "zip" on the ball, and it was right on target, with no way McCluster could be the target. And "Even when he makes a nice pass, it still gets criticized ROFL"

But yet, when I post some pics showing it's not as clear cut as you described... then I'm obsessing and turning it into the Kennedy assassination...

Yet none of you challenged the pics I posted or the possibility that it wasn't intended for Horne. Just criticizing me for providing another angle.

Whatever...

pretty clear cut when it hit horne in the gut without him taking a step and mccluster had to dive and still never got a hand on the ball IMO

[SAUTO]

Look at the post before yours for a perfect example of my point. God forbid a rookie not have a great season. Meanwhile, the guy who's 28 gets a pass for poor play.

i would have been fine and patient with sanchez/ stafford/ or clausen.


hell i wanted sanchez and havent had a bad thing to say about him EXCEPT to question some people when they have annointed him a franchise QB already when he was no better then trent dilfer for the ravens the year they won the SB. close in comp. % YPA, att per game, within 30 YPgame, same TDs except dilfer played in 5 LESS games, 9 more INTS for sanchez (again 5 less games for dilfer) int % is about equal.....


i can see him getting to that point(franchise) but i could see how it may still go the other way

[-King-]

I have pretty much never liked Sanchez. From college to pros. His rookie year wasn't impressive at all except for 1 game. He's been pretty shitty this preseason.

Matt Stafford though is another case all together. I liked him very much and I think he'll be pretty fucking good.

[keg in kc]

I liked Sanchez, but saw him as a late 1st/2nd round QB, even in a draft as poor as 2009. Juniors are a risk generally speaking, and he'd only played a single year. So I wasn't somebody who saw him as a direction I'd go at 3. (Ditto for Jackson)

I didn't want Cassel, didn't like the trade, but he's who I'm stuck with, so I hope he takes a step or three forward.

The guy I really wanted was Ryan, the year we took Dorsey, although I'd certainly have been happy with Stafford last year.

[Rasputin]

Actually, I think all of the people you're "referring" to wouldn't nitpick at all - it would be the people that want no part of a high draft pick at QB.

Some of us see the difference between a 22 year old rookie and a 28 year old 5th year benchwarmer and understand the difference in expectation.

A young player with potential should get time to learn the game, the speed of the game, etc. That's why people saying that Sanchez and Stafford suck when they are 2nd year players is retarded.

Meanwhile, those same people are more than willing to give a 28 year old never-was the same amount of time, and are more than willing to continue to make excuses for his shitty play.

I guarantee you that the people defending Cassel now would be the same folks looking to burn a R1 pick at the ****ing stake 3 weeks into his rookie year.

It's the Blackledge curse OnTheWarpath. I've tryed to reason with the "true fans" At some point it would be nice to draft a first round QB for our future & that's what other teams do. Not with the "True Chiefs Fans" They prefer back up QBs from the patriots to be our Franchise QB. As long as he is a rehash QB he can do no wrong but a rookie fuck that/ True Fans...

[keg in kc]

It's the Blackledge curse OnTheWarpath. I've tryed to reason with the "true fans" At some point it would be nice to draft a first round QB for our future & that's what other teams do. Not with the "True Chiefs Fans" They prefer back up QBs from the patriots to be our Franchise QB. As long as he is a rehash QB he can do no wrong but a rookie **** that/ True Fans...My contention is that not wanting to draft a guy doesn't mean the homers are going to throw him under the bus once he's in town. True fans are eventually going to love anybody the Chiefs take. We're talking about guys who rooted for Tyler Thigpen and Brodie Croyle, for chrissakes. They'll take to anybody in a Chiefs uniform, in the end, even if it's somebody they didn't want. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that would hold true for a 1st round quarterback as much as it held true for guys like SlyMo and Sims and Hali and Jackson. They might go kicking and screaming on draft day, but they'll be in full homer mode by June.

Not that it looks like I'll ever get to test that theory.

[the Talking Can]

JaMarcus Russell

31 games
25 starts
18 TDs
23 INTs
3.4% INT%
65.2 QB rating


Mark Sanchez
15 games
15 starts
12 TDs
20 INTs
5.5% INT%
63.0 QB rating


It does, indeed, go without saying.

you're dumber that i thought...which is saying something


not a coincidence that the people who copy paste stats this board, without even the merest attempt at context, much less actually watching and understanding what they're seeing turn out to have the dumbest opinions about QBs...

you, pioli zombi, that pawnsmoker guy, etc...

[FAX]

My contention is that not wanting to draft a guy doesn't mean the homers are going to throw him under the bus once he's in town. True fans are eventually going to love anybody the Chiefs take. We're talking about guys who rooted for Tyler Thigpen and Brodie Croyle, for chrissakes. They'll take to anybody in a Chiefs uniform, in the end, even if it's somebody they didn't want. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that would hold true for a 1st round quarterback as much as it held true for guys like SlyMo and Sims and Hali and Jackson. They might go kicking and screaming on draft day, but they'll be in full homer mode by June.

Not that it looks like I'll ever get to test that theory.

Hey! Simmah!!! Simmah down nah!!!

Brodie Croyle had the tools, man. He really did. What he didn't have was an NFL caliber skeletal system.

If Croyle had been given the chance that other "normal" young quarterbacks are given ... and if he could stay out of the emergency room ... he could have been a very nice QB for this team.

Need I again dig up his collegiate records? The ones where he kicked the living ass of guys like Stabler, Starr, and Namath? Because, by God and all the Saints, I'll do it if I must.

FAX

[keg in kc]

Hey! Simmah!!! Simmah down nah!!!

Brodie Croyle had the tools, man. He really did. What he didn't have was an NFL caliber skeletal system.

If Croyle had been given the chance that other "normal" young quarterbacks are given ... and if he could stay out of the emergency room ... he could have been a very nice QB for this team.

Need I again dig up his collegiate records? The ones where he kicked the living ass of guys like Stabler, Starr, and Namath? Because, by God and all the Saints, I'll do it if I must.

FAXI'm one who might argue that he didn't have an NFL calibre decision-making apparatus.

We shouldn't be talking about him in past tense, you know.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

You sure?

I thought he was throwing it to the defender behind the crossbar?

Can we get some confirmation on this?

You can clearly see the shadow of someone in the grassy knoll behind the endzone. Yes it is confirmed.

[Just Passin' By]

you're dumber that i thought...which is saying something


not a coincidence that the people who copy paste stats this board, without even the merest attempt at context, much less actually watching and understanding what they're seeing turn out to have the dumbest opinions about QBs...

you, pioli zombi, that pawnsmoker guy, etc...

Sanchez sucked last year. The stats just confirm the reality. Your post makes no sense in light of that simple truth.

[FAX]

I'm one who might argue that he didn't have an NFL calibre decision-making apparatus.

Then let's argue it.

He played behind a crap line in college. Set the school passing record (among others) while spending half the time running for his life behind the LOS because the dumb bastards up front couldn't block for one Mississippi. And, that was "after" coming back from a second ACL.

He's so "football stupid" that he led a very marginal Tide team to a #8 national ranking, a 10–2 record, and a Cotton Bowl win. That takes some real stupidity right there.

Just because the guy is "Southern" doesn't mean he's dumb. Stabler, Starr, and Namath all spoke hillbilly when they came out.

FAX

[-King-]

When talking about great qbs, can you guys do me a favor and stop including Namath? Please?

[FAX]

Is it just me, or is the Planeteer population unusually irritable today?

FAX

[DeezNutz]

Is it just me, or is the Planeteer population unusually irritable today?

FAX

Shut the fuck up.

[-King-]

Shut the fuck up.

ROFL

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Sanchez sucked last year. The stats just confirm the reality. Your post makes no sense in light of that simple truth.

Oh shut up.:p